The Official Sequential/Oberheim Forum
SEQUENTIAL/DSI => OB-6 => Topic started by: AlainHubert on June 19, 2018, 10:28:40 AM
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Just a small audio demo of the same patch (first programmed on the OB6 and very carefully recreated on the REV2 taking into account the differences in both machines), with only the onboard reverbs respectively.
I think it's pretty clear how good the OB6 sounds... 8) ;D
I like my REV2, but I LOVE my OB6.
https://soundcloud.com/thealien666/ob6-rev2
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Perhaps it's different in person, but the only thing clear to me is that the REV2 has a ton of advantages in functionality with negligible difference when recorded, especially when it's going to be sitting in some mix.
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Perhaps it's different in person, but the only thing clear to me is that the REV2 has a ton of advantages in functionality with negligible difference when recorded, especially when it's going to be sitting in some mix.
The knob-per-function approach of the OB-6 (both keyboard and module) is great, but one quickly discovers that the serious modulation capabilities of the REV2 (and its predecessors) are sorely lacking.
Though I'm not holding my breath, I would love to see a full-featured, discrete VCO-based instrument from DSI with a complete mod matrix, a la the Oberheim Matrix-12 / Xpander.
I've got a Matrix-6 and Matrix-1000 which, while lacking the knobby immediacy of the REV2, can take one to places in OB territory with its capable mod matrix that the OB-6 cannot - that said, the tone of the OB-6 clearly makes up a good portion of the difference!
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I'm not holding my breath either for such a "perfect" polyphonic synth, combining a superb analog sound like the OB6 or P6, AND as many features as the REV2 modulation wise, from DSI.
The Matrix-6 (which I also own) does offer a lot of modulation possibilities (although a pain to edit without a controller), but it sounds somewhat dull compared to an OB6 thanks to its CEM3396 (basically the same chips used in the REV2 which also pales a little in comparison to the OB6). However, the REV2 offers a lot more voices (the 16 voice model).
BTW the Oberheim Matrix-12/Xpander didn't use discrete VCOs (like in the P6 and OB6 from DSI) but rather the famous CEM3340, which also sounded bloody great. Much nicer than the DCOs of the CEM3396/PA397/DSI120, IMHO.
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BTW the Oberheim Matrix-12/Xpander didn't use discrete VCOs (like in the P6 and OB6 from DSI) but rather the famous CEM3340, which also sounded bloody great.
Actually, the Matrix-12 and Xpander used a dual-VCO CEM 3374 per voice*. The filter/VCA IC (CEM 3372) is the same as used for the Sequential Prophet-T8 and -600 (both of which use CEM 3340 VCOs, which are now available in Rev G form).
My remark about the discrete VCO was that it makes more manufacturing sense (having the existing implementation from the OB-6 and/or Prophet-6) to use that optimized design, rather than an off-the-shelf oscillator IC.
* - availability of which, compared to the CEM 3340, is one of my primary reasons for not pulling the trigger on one.
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I stand corrected, CEM3374 indeed inside the M12 and Xpander.
I agree with you that producing a 16 voice OB6 (possibly called OB16 ?) with the flexibility of a REV2 would be really fantastic, and nothing in the current design prevents this from happening. DSI only have to put 16 DIMM sockets to receive as much OB6 voice cards in there, followed by a beefed up software to control them. The current MCU/DSP technology is more than able to deal with that.
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Again, the DCO vs VCO debate is overplayed to me. I would personally much rather hear a REV2 with some SSM based filter, I.E. a REV3. Let's get a reverse P5 Rev-style debate going just to see what people say in that situation.
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Again, the DCO vs VCO debate is overplayed to me. I would personally much rather hear a REV2 with some SSM based filter, I.E. a REV3. Let's get a reverse P5 Rev-style debate going just to see what people say in that situation.
That could be interesting, for sure.
To me, the DCO vs. VCO thing is all about pitch relationships, to which end you can also throw octave-divider based tone generators into the mix. Sonically, on a per-voice basis, it's not as conclusive a difference (all things being equal).
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Also the nature of the ramp generator design inside the CEM chips (VCOs or DCOS) is very different from some other discrete components VCOs. The waveform of a Minimoog oscillator is very different from the one from a CEM3396. Actually, the OB6 is very similar with a pronounced curved slope at low frequencies, and lots of high harmonics too.
But I agree that the main culprit for the CEM3396 slight "harshness" is probably the filter, which distorts the sound somewhat, even though the datasheet says, and I quote:"Special care has been taken in the design of the filter and VCAs to insure low intermodulation distortion...". Notice how they said "low distortion" which means it can still be there and noticeable.
I'd be willing to bet that the SEM inspired filter of the OB6 has an even lower distortion level... ;)
Let's face it, some early CEM chips sounded really great. Some later ones, not so great. Hence the audible differences between them.
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Also the nature of the ramp generator design inside the CEM chips (VCOs or DCOS) is very different from some other discrete components VCOs. The waveform of a Minimoog oscillator is very different from the one from a CEM3396. Actually, the OB6 is very similar with a pronounced curved slope at low frequencies, and lots of high harmonics too.
But I agree that the main culprit for the CEM3396 slight "harshness" is probably the filter, which distorts the sound somewhat, even though the datasheet says, and I quote:"Special care has been taken in the design of the filter and VCAs to insure low intermodulation distortion...". Notice how they said "low distortion" which means it can still be there and noticeable.
I'd be willing to bet that the SEM inspired filter of the OB6 has an even lower distortion level... ;)
Let's face it, some early CEM chips sounded really great. Some later ones, not so great. Hence the audible differences between them.
Something that I learned recently is the P6 oscillators seem to be naturally driving the filter hard If they are fully cranked. The trick is to decrease them to roughly 50 to 70 percent and then decrease the amp envelope to about 60. Bring up the master volume and adjust the overall volume. I’ve noticed a considerable difference by doing this. The sound is warmer and a bit more full sounding. It eliminates the harshness and makes the overall tone more akin to the P5. In fact a lot of the Prophet 5 presets John Bowen programmed into the P6 actually have the oscillators and amp envelope down!
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I couldn’t hear any difference in that sound comparison in the first post at all. Tried two different headphones too.
Anyway, in the short time I’ve been creating patches on the OB6, I’ve then tried to make some of them on the Rev2 just to observe the similarities. Finding that I’m getting closer results on the Rev2 if I use it’s 4pole setting, which is a bit odd.
Also finding the OB6 a bit more consistent when using narrow pulse wave. On the Rev2 it’s a bit random.
Anyway. I’m quickly realising what preferences I have for each, and both are definitely keepers.
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I couldn’t hear any difference in that sound comparison in the first post at all. Tried two different headphones too.
Anyway, in the short time I’ve been creating patches on the OB6, I’ve then tried to make some of them on the Rev2 just to observe the similarities. Finding that I’m getting closer results on the Rev2 if I use it’s 4pole setting, which is a bit odd.
Also finding the OB6 a bit more consistent when using narrow pulse wave. On the Rev2 it’s a bit random.
Anyway. I’m quickly realising what preferences I have for each, and both are definitely keepers.
Soundcloud audio compression doesn't help matters, but there is still a very slight difference nonetheless. The OB6 has a little more high end content.
You can download the uncompressed audio version (.wav format) here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/4ttgg87ohw5sn6d/OB6-REV2.wav?dl=0
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Just a small audio demo of the same patch (first programmed on the OB6 and very carefully recreated on the REV2 taking into account the differences in both machines), with only the onboard reverbs respectively.
I think it's pretty clear how good the OB6 sounds... 8) ;D
I like my REV2, but I LOVE my OB6.
https://soundcloud.com/thealien666/ob6-rev2
Cool but would be VERY nice if you could make a video with a step-by-step comparison in the patching process. I'm an owner of a Rev2 and been thinking seriously in get an OB6 also. But the price and (apparently) poor construction quality (plastic knobs ?) are holding for while.
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...But the price and (apparently) poor construction quality (plastic knobs ?) are holding for while.
The plastic knobs are actually very solid and Larger than the Rev2’s. I’m thinking about asking DSI if they’ll sell them so I can put them on my Rev2.
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I’ve seen reports of wobbly knobs on the OB6, but on my unit (module version) they’re very stable and feel solid. I’ve had my unit for about a year now without any issues with the plastic knobs.
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I’ve seen reports of wobbly knobs on the OB6, but on my unit (module version) they’re very stable and feel solid. I’ve had my unit for about a year now without any issues with the plastic knobs.
Thanks for the info. If you had to explain in a few phrases why do have you got an OB6 already having a Rev2, what would you say?
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Thanks for the info. If you had to explain in a few phrases why do have you got an OB6 already having a Rev2, what would you say?
You're welcome. :)
Because both machines are very good at what they do. One offers instant gratification and the other offers tons of possibilities modulation wise. And although it's possible to get both to sound very close, not without a little work, they also differ enough to justify having both (but that's only my personal opinion, based on my particular needs and preferences).
BTW, it was the other way around; I got the REV2 after I already had the OB6.
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I couldn’t hear any difference in that sound comparison in the first post at all. Tried two different headphones too.
Anyway, in the short time I’ve been creating patches on the OB6, I’ve then tried to make some of them on the Rev2 just to observe the similarities. Finding that I’m getting closer results on the Rev2 if I use it’s 4pole setting, which is a bit odd.
Also finding the OB6 a bit more consistent when using narrow pulse wave. On the Rev2 it’s a bit random.
Anyway. I’m quickly realising what preferences I have for each, and both are definitely keepers.
Soundcloud audio compression doesn't help matters, but there is still a very slight difference nonetheless. The OB6 has a little more high end content.
You can download the uncompressed audio version (.wav format) here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/4ttgg87ohw5sn6d/OB6-REV2.wav?dl=0
After listening to the WAV example i'm seriously rethinking about my wish to get an OB6 already having a Rev2. The patches sounds almost the same, the OB6 has more high end for sure but that's all... I really don't know if such a thing justify the us$ 3000 price tag, at least in my case.
I've watched a lot of OB6 videos and usually the demos are way more into the timbral spectrum i like most (70s disco / 80s synthpop), sounds i could not or have a lot of struggle to replicate on my Rev2. But now i'm wondering the problem is more about the synthesizer operator (me) than the synthesizer itself... ;D
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I've watched a lot of OB6 videos and usually the demos are way more into the timbral spectrum i like most (70s disco / 80s synthpop), sounds i could not or have a lot of struggle to replicate on my Rev2.
I’d say I only got a “thin impression” of the OB6 (and Rev2) on YouTube etc.
It was hearing the OB6 live on stage that grabbed me. And I could never emulate that sound on a Prophet 08 or Rev2, Nord Leads or Moogs.
I tried to get there stacking A+B layers on the Rev2 and came close on some patches, but it got too tricky or fell apart when I introduced other modulations.
On my 2nd trip to try the OB6 in the store, I hit sequencer start, and stepped from preset 000 all the way to 499 with the sequencer running.
When a patch interested me I took note of a few things, asking myself if it could be replicated in Rev2:
# was VCO2 on Low Freq? If so, what was going on in X-MOD?
# in X-MOD was NORM->BP or VCO1 lit up?
# was FILTER MODE lit up in X-MOD or LFO or Aftertouch?
# I turned the Filter mode pot to find where it was set. Was it on BP? If not LP, where?
# were 2 Effects being used simultaneously, + Distortion?
I knew it would be a challenge to get patches with those exact parameters on the Rev2 in a single layer, but went home to try it out even with two layers.
On return, ignoring the OB6 patches which sounded similar to the Rev2 (or Nords/Moogs), I went back to the ones I loved having the above # settings in action (Lucky I wrote the patch numbers down!).
So I messed around with those to see where it’d take me, and sure enough I walked out with an OB6.
In a nut shell. The Rev2 can make lots of similar voices to the OB6, and vice versa. It’s a question, and an exercise, to determine if the voices you struggle to get on the Rev2 are indigenous to the OB6 by virtue of its unique parameters.
As for the price vs. voices and programming, that's down to you.
And FINALLY watch this Casio do an OBXa patch and question life itself
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKuT0UpAxIc
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I’ve owned and played both, and I still have the OB-6. My thoughts: It’s all in the filter. The Rev 2 can do 2-pole, but that’s a far cry from the variation available from the OB-6 state-variable filter.
There are other differences as well, but the difference in filters is the first place to look for the difference in sound between these two synths.
My 2¢.
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In a nut shell. The Rev2 can make lots of similar voices to the OB6, and vice versa. It’s a question, and an exercise, to determine if the voices you struggle to get on the Rev2 are indigenous to the OB6 by virtue of its unique parameters.
As for the price vs. voices and programming, that's down to you.
And FINALLY watch this Casio do an OBXa patch and question life itself
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKuT0UpAxIc
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Lol nice video ! In a couple of months 'll have the opportunity to play the OB6 in a store. Think this is the best way to make the right decision.
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Something that I learned recently is the P6 oscillators seem to be naturally driving the filter hard If they are fully cranked. The trick is to decrease them to roughly 50 to 70 percent and then decrease the amp envelope to about 60. Bring up the master volume and adjust the overall volume. I’ve noticed a considerable difference by doing this. The sound is warmer and a bit more full sounding. It eliminates the harshness and makes the overall tone more akin to the P5. In fact a lot of the Prophet 5 presets John Bowen programmed into the P6 actually have the oscillators and amp envelope down!
On both my Nord and my OB-6, I keep the Master Volume at maximum and use an external keyboard mixer (Mackie 1202-VLZ) for level control in phones or monitor. This way I keep the levels inside the keyboard low so the effects, etc, are never close to being overdriven. The difference is definitely audible.
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Something that I learned recently is the P6 oscillators seem to be naturally driving the filter hard If they are fully cranked. The trick is to decrease them to roughly 50 to 70 percent and then decrease the amp envelope to about 60. Bring up the master volume and adjust the overall volume. I’ve noticed a considerable difference by doing this. The sound is warmer and a bit more full sounding. It eliminates the harshness and makes the overall tone more akin to the P5. In fact a lot of the Prophet 5 presets John Bowen programmed into the P6 actually have the oscillators and amp envelope down!
On both my Nord and my OB-6, I keep the Master Volume at maximum and use an external keyboard mixer (Mackie 1202-VLZ) for level control in phones or monitor. This way I keep the levels inside the keyboard low so the effects, etc, are never close to being overdriven. The difference is definitely audible.
I wonder if a lot of people claiming the P6 or OB6 "sounds too harsh" are unintentionally overdriving everything.
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I wonder if a lot of people claiming the P6 or OB6 "sounds too harsh" are unintentionally overdriving everything.
That's my take...
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I have both. Pretty much everything sounds great on OB6, whereas REV2 can sound harsh (filter) and has a narrow sweet spot. My REV2 is now for sale. I've never used a Prophet 8, but I found some interesting comparison videos where the P8 sounded sweeter than REV2. Go figure.
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I have both. Pretty much everything sounds great on OB6, whereas REV2 can sound harsh (filter) and has a narrow sweet spot.
That is exactly what I think, too.
If it weren't for the 16 voices of polyphony and Mod Matrix, I'd probably sell my REV2 also.
It's really a shame that the Behringer DeepMind 12 (which I also own but thinking of selling) doesn't have 2 full oscillators per voice, because it's really sweet sounding (better than REV2 IMHO) and also offers a Mod Matrix. Unfortunately, in order to get 2 full oscillators per voice, the polyphony drops down to 6 voices only, and those oscillators are not completely independent.
I had thought of getting a second OB6 Module and polychain them, but in reading in another thread that there are some serious bugs in that system, I've put that on ice for the moment.
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Excuse my rant, but I've got a different perspective than the usual narrative spun about these kind of forums. Granted I've not heard the OB6 or P6 in person; however, I have played wtih the Deepmind 12 for example, which sounds nowhere near as high quality as the REV2.
For starters, I actually prefer the stability of DCOs over VCOs. If I want to dial in drifting Boards of Canada type tones, I can nail that perfectly with my REV2. This is not something I've been able to achieve convincingly with my digital synths. The REV2 still sounds just as analog. The oscillators are not as precisely defined as NCOs, which has its pros and cons. Digital synths are much better at percussive attacks for one thing, especially when combined with attack samples of other instruments. Furthermore, the warm vs cold debate is the oddest one for me. If I want cooler/lusher tones with greater complexity, I'd lean towards a digital synth and if I want warmer tones with greater 3D separation between aspects, I'd lean towards an analog synth. One is not better than the other, they're simply different.
As for the OB6 or P6 vs REV2 debate, again I'd like to note that I've only heard the REV2 in person. All I know for certain is that the REV2 is extremely dynamic. With a little work you can get it to sound just as good in a mix as any other analog synth in all but one area. When I see people complaining about the filter, I just think they haven't really taken the time to dial in what they're looking for. People seem to want instant gratification and despite being extremely flexible, the REV2 is still extremely simple. The only thing I really see in the OB6s favor is that the filter does thinner/fizzier sounds much better from what I've heard. The SEM has a more plastic tone in those settings, which is less abrasive than the more metallic, again in those settings, Curtis (or SSM based P6 filter). I've not been able to find a workaround for this, so many on here will find that a good reason to own both. Perhaps someone has some hinters for me there...
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I wonder if a lot of people claiming the P6 or OB6 "sounds too harsh" are unintentionally overdriving everything.
Probably, yes. It's something that takes a while to realize, but it definitely makes a difference.
As for the DCO vs VCO debate: I won't say one is better than the other. There's one limit to the DCOs though, and that's FM, or rather no FM option.
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Granted I've not heard the OB6 or P6 in person...
Then you should have stopped right there until you do.
I own a REV2, an OB6, and a DM12. I can tell you that the DM12 can sounds every bit as good as, and sometimes even better than, a REV2 when carefully programmed and at the cost of reduced polyphony.
A perfect example of this would be this demo that I made when I first got the DM12 over a year ago (half way point is where the synth really shines):
https://soundcloud.com/thealien666/deepmind-exploration
But the OB6 outshines them both in instant gratification and richness of sounds, thanks in part to its great SEM multi mode filter.
But that's only my personal opinion based on my personal preferences, but also based on real life use, not just speculation.
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Then you should have stopped right there until you do.
The synth industry isn't exactly a booming business where I'm from. The most you see in stores is a Deepmind 12, MS20, or Subsequent 37 if you're lucky. The Ob6 is one synth I don't own that I would buy if I can ever justify it.
But the OB6 outshines them both in instant gratification and richness of sounds, thanks in part to its great SEM multi mode filter.
As I alluded to, I'm sure it does outshine the REV2 in instant gratification. Also I was pretty clear that I was commenting on how it sounds in a production, which is not "speculation." Aside from the cross/poly mod sections of the VCO synths, there's far too many interesting sounds that the REV2 does make that those can't possibly do. That's probably why I think the REV2 sounds much cooler overall in most of the clips around.
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Alright, so I caved and sold some gear in order to fund the OB6 module. Not that it's justified, but I have a sickness. ;)
All I can say is it better rock my world...
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Alright, so I caved and sold some gear in order to fund the OB6 module. Not that it's justified, but I have a sickness. ;)
All I can say is it better rock my world...
Buying something without trying it first is always a gamble. But I hope that the OB6 will satisfy you nonetheless. I know that I'm very satisfied with mine. But then again, there are those who prefer a different sound and that's perfectly all right too.
No, it doesn't have a Mod Matrix, no it doesn't have more than one LFO, no there is no dynamic unison mode, no you cannot individually control the amount of modulation from the LFO sent to different destinations, it only has 6 voices of polyphony. But what it lacks in control, it more than makes up for it with the sounds. Especially the multimode SEM filter.
If such a filter is something that one likes.
As always with any modern electronic product, just make sure that it has the latest firmware installed. If not, upgrade it right away.
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Alright, so I caved and sold some gear in order to fund the OB6 module. Not that it's justified, but I have a sickness. ;)
All I can say is it better rock my world...
Buying something without trying it first is always a gamble. But I hope that the OB6 will satisfy you nonetheless. I know that I'm very satisfied with mine. But then again, there are those who prefer a different sound and that's perfectly all right too.
No, it doesn't have a Mod Matrix, no it doesn't have more than one LFO, no there is no dynamic unison mode, no you cannot individually control the amount of modulation from the LFO sent to different destinations, it only has 6 voices of polyphony. But what it lacks in control, it more than makes up for it with the sounds. Especially the multimode SEM filter.
If such a filter is something that one likes.
As always with any modern electronic product, just make sure that it has the latest firmware installed. If not, upgrade it right away.
Commenting on the part I bolded. I use LFO/Envelope CV from other synths to modulate the Filter freq and/or Amp through pedal sockets to get more out of the single LFO and filter envelope of OB-6. That really widens the possibilities.
One other thing I've been experimenting with is using polyphonic aftertouch to modulate VCO2 frequency as a X-mod source.
On paper the OB can seem to be a bit "limited" but he possibilites are pleasantly surprising when you dive into it, even without external gear helping with modulations.
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Especially the multimode SEM filter. If such a filter is something that one likes.
What can I say ... phenomenal.
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I really wanted to get the Rev2. It seems to have the best feature to price ratio of current Sequential products. The OB6 was on my radar, but only 6 voices? And all the little 2 digit displays littered all over the fascia. What an odd interface design.
Well I made it down to the local retailer and checked out the Rev 2, The P12 and the OB6. They all sounded really good on various patches. The Rev 2 was a breeze to get around on. Very easy to figure out the various ways you can sculpt the timbre.
The OB 6 I found a bit more difficult to grok at first. But eventually was able to get things moving in a direction I wanted.
After a couple more trips to the music store it was really clear. I am going to be paying off an OB 6 for the next few months. It just has a more 3D sound to the OSC and filter before you even turn the effects on or start modulating things.
The REV2 and P12 have their own strengths. Mostly in terms of complex modulation. But with how flat the basic tone is in comparison I wonder how good that will sound?
It really has me wondering if the difference in sound is not something more basic than OSC, filter or VCA. Possibly the OB6 has a more robust output amp, better able to deliver the basic tone?
I know I've improved the sound of some of my gear by upgrading op amps or adding a transformer balanced output.
(and I do wish the OB6 had balanced outs for the price!)
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I think you're making the right choice and considering my prior involvement with this thread, I feel I should give an update. I've already made at least four times the amount of patches in less than a quarter of the amount of time with the OB than I did with the REV2. It takes quite a bit more creativity to coax interesting sounds out of, but it's also capable of an insane variety of timbres by tweaking what's there. The main thing is it always sounds pleasing to my ears, whereas the REV2 def takes some dialing in. I just wish it had more LFOs... I would trade the sequencer, arpeggiator, and even the effects for some more.
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...After a couple more trips to the music store it was really clear. I am going to be paying off an OB 6 for the next few months...
Congratulations on a well thought of choice. I'm sure that, like many other people who forked that much money into it, you'll be very satisfied with it. I know I am. It's almost like having an Oberheim Son Of 6-Voice, in a compact form factor. ;-)
(https://i1.wp.com/www.synthtopia.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/son-of-four-voice-oberheim.png?resize=546%2C262)
(https://www.thomann.de/pics/bdb/393673/11516034_800.jpg)
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I really wanted to get the Rev2. It seems to have the best feature to price ratio of current Sequential products. The OB6 was on my radar, but only 6 voices? And all the little 2 digit displays littered all over the fascia. What an odd interface design.
Well I made it down to the local retailer and checked out the Rev 2, The P12 and the OB6. They all sounded really good on various patches. The Rev 2 was a breeze to get around on. Very easy to figure out the various ways you can sculpt the timbre.
The OB 6 I found a bit more difficult to grok at first. But eventually was able to get things moving in a direction I wanted.
After a couple more trips to the music store it was really clear. I am going to be paying off an OB 6 for the next few months. It just has a more 3D sound to the OSC and filter before you even turn the effects on or start modulating things.
The REV2 and P12 have their own strengths. Mostly in terms of complex modulation. But with how flat the basic tone is in comparison I wonder how good that will sound?
It really has me wondering if the difference in sound is not something more basic than OSC, filter or VCA. Possibly the OB6 has a more robust output amp, better able to deliver the basic tone?
I know I've improved the sound of some of my gear by upgrading op amps or adding a transformer balanced output.
(and I do wish the OB6 had balanced outs for the price!)
Congrats on your OB6 Calaverasgrande. I agree about other factors besides oscillators and filters influencing sound of any particular synth. I'm convinced that the Amp itself has a key in quality of sound. Remember back a few decades ago when stereo systems were bought and sold based on speakers and amp components, not just the source of the sound (CD, tape, or turntable)? The OB6 excels in this amp realm. One VA synth I own has some nice bells and whistles, but the sound when compared to the DSI line, just has a somewhat hollow sound. We could get into that whole VA vs analog realm discussion, but after looking at oscilloscope comparisons and looking at the both the VA synth and OB6 with filters wide open, there is no visual difference at least that I can spot. On it's own I would not detect this difference perhaps, I like that particular VA, but, side by side with like my OB6 or PO8, it becomes obvious. I've noticed this issue on a couple VA's I had owned. But I don't think it's just a VA thing. For example, I had a Novation K-station VA that sounded really good.
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...After a couple more trips to the music store it was really clear. I am going to be paying off an OB 6 for the next few months...
Congratulations on a well thought of choice. I'm sure that, like many other people who forked that much money into it, you'll be very satisfied with it. I know I am. It's almost like having an Oberheim Son Of 6-Voice, in a compact form factor. ;-)
(https://i1.wp.com/www.synthtopia.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/son-of-four-voice-oberheim.png?resize=546%2C262)
(https://www.thomann.de/pics/bdb/393673/11516034_800.jpg)
Love my OB-6 the sounds it creates just brings back memories of the 1980s.
Where is this Sone of four voice? I built my own using 4 SEM modules and dedicated eurorack to do the MIDI to Cv, voice allocation etc. but that looks like some new model I never seen.
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Around 2011, Tom Oberheim announced a four-voice SEM called "Son Of 4 Voice" also known as SO4V. It started shipping in 2014. Only a very limited number of units were actually produced and shipped, since they were all made by hand one at a time, before being discontinued soon after the DSI OB6 was announced, for which Tom has designed the voice cards (VCOs/VCF) replicating his SEM modules circuitry.
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Around 2011, Tom Oberheim announced a four-voice SEM called "Son Of 4 Voice" also known as SO4V. It started shipping in 2014. Only a very limited number of units were actually produced and shipped, since they were all made by hand one at a time, before being discontinued soon after the DSI OB6 was announced, for which Tom has designed the voice cards (VCOs/VCF) replicating his SEM modules circuitry.
Actually, the SO4V never saw the light of the day, as there were some delaying issues with the OS of the programmer module. Tom focused on the Two Voice Pro instead, which was announced in 2012 and became available around 2015 until it was discontinued last year.
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I thought that since Sweetwater Sound still lists it on their online store as discontinued, that it did ship at some point ?
But I stand corrected. Thanks.
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I thought that since Sweetwater Sound still lists it on their online store as discontinued, that it did ship at some point ?
But I stand corrected. Thanks.
Yes, you're right. I remember Sweetwater listing it after it was announced. But only the rendering made its way out of Tom's workspace.
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I've owned (and sold and never missed) the Rev2, had a prophet 6 (also sold but that was at least great sounding in its own way) and currently have the OB-6.
The rev 2 and OB-6 exist in different universes of sound quality. There's no doubt about it. Maybe on 'some' YT vids you think you can guess? Nah, get them in, use them and see the (woeful) limits of the Rev 2s tone and weak filter, yes modulation is cool but not if it's in place of great sound. While OB-6 won't do some of the stuff the Rev 2 could, I don't particularly need the stuff the rev 2 can do IF it doesn't sound *great* doing it.
OB6 = 10/10 on sound (and operation)
Prophet 6 = 8/10 (on best stuff - 7/10 on 50% of stuff)
Rev 2 = 5/10 (maybe 6/10 on some very specific 'sci fi' modulated sequences and layer morphs but 'meh' overall)
OB-6 isn't just the best sounding DSI synth, by far, imo it's the best sound modern analog synth of them all (inc against the Moog One which does nothing for me).
I've had tons of analog, VA and digital (from late 70s upto today), in recent times JD-XA, Sub 37, Slim Phatty, Rev 2, Prophet 6, OB-6 etc and the ONLY one of the modern ones that was good enough to remain was the OB-6. Not only does it 'make the grade' it also puts many of the old vintage synths to shame, something even the Prophet 6 couldn't do let alone the very very clinical Rev 2.
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Horses for courses.
All three work together perfectly for a 100% synth gig. But individually, it depends on the job.
If you’re the keys in a band, the synth of choice should be based on the bands genre.
I wouldn’t be wielding an OB-6 for orchestral ballads, nor would I rely solely on a Rev2 for industrial EDM...
Neither is better or worse, more or less capable than the other.
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I've played the P6 briefly and own an OB-6/AS-1 currently. To me the P6 sounds as near perfect tonally as it gets. I'd say it's darker and a bit more smooth/beautiful; overall it's more refined. The OB-6 is brighter and has a bit more hair/character; overall it's rougher. It would be near impossible for me to pick one over the other and if I could I'd own both.
Also, it's hard to imagine being a synth head, yet the Moog One does absolutely "nothing" for you ... But I suppose that's the hip thing to say these days.
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I love them both for different reasons...
I actually exchanged my OB-6 just yesterday due to a problem with a pot and damn I miss it... I'm diving as deep as I can into the Rev 2 until she arrives back in my arms... Separation anxiety with an inanimate object!
I honestly couldn't decide between them because there aren't any music stores I could test them at near me, so I ended up with the Rev 2 16 voice, OB-6 module and Novation Peak.... I think I'm close to my poly end game, but I'm not much interested in vintage equipment.
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They all sound great to me. Its all about gain staging, making the best use of each instruments strengths and using them appropriately. They are different colors in the box of crayons. I can make all of them shine.
I have a P6 on the way as well, my collection of DSI instrumentd continues to grow :)
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Around 2011, Tom Oberheim announced a four-voice SEM called "Son Of 4 Voice" also known as SO4V. It started shipping in 2014. Only a very limited number of units were actually produced and shipped, since they were all made by hand one at a time, before being discontinued soon after the DSI OB6 was announced, for which Tom has designed the voice cards (VCOs/VCF) replicating his SEM modules circuitry.
Actually, the SO4V never saw the light of the day, as there were some delaying issues with the OS of the programmer module. Tom focused on the Two Voice Pro instead, which was announced in 2012 and became available around 2015 until it was discontinued last year.
I ended up building my own SO4V by buying up a bunch of Sem modules, bought a small eurorack case with the appropriate parts.
Sadly the modules got discontinued though.
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I love them both for different reasons...
I actually exchanged my OB-6 just yesterday due to a problem with a pot and damn I miss it... I'm diving as deep as I can into the Rev 2 until she arrives back in my arms... Separation anxiety with an inanimate object!
I honestly couldn't decide between them because there aren't any music stores I could test them at near me, so I ended up with the Rev 2 16 voice, OB-6 module and Novation Peak.... I think I'm close to my poly end game, but I'm not much interested in vintage equipment.
Novation Peak is a fantastic instrument, I would love to see Dave explore FPGA based NCOs for a future instrument.
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Those calling me out on being too choosy or w/e that's what we do with our tastes as musicians. I for one certainly do not need a room full of only DSI gear when I have vintage stuff, esp Roland, that does everything so well. As said, modern synth wise, very little competes with that, inc Prophet 6. But OB-6 genuinely does, and it's the only decently priced modern synth that does hang with the old gear without sounding harsh/stiff.
P6 did sound constrained and locked inside it's box kinda thing, it could never bloom or have presence, was always 'small', and yeah I know all the gain staging tricks on the mixer section to not make it so harsh, but it simply doesn't 'glow' like either the old synths OR the OB-6 (which does). It's because of a number of things, firstly the VCOs in the OB-6 are looser and more organic, the mixer stage actually seems to do something other than just be a volume control (can get a bit of drive/harmonics going on) and the filter is 10x more rich and interesting harmonically than the Prophet 6.
Not so say the P6 is awful, it's probably my next favourite modern synth and may nicer than most Moog stuff they are throwing out (which has a hollow/hard sound unless you go to the Model D and poss the Grandmother but<<< y'know simple mono).
OB-6 is instantly inspirational, doesn't need any work to dial in a great sound, and most important it has PRESENCE, it sounds like it's in the room, coming out of the speakers, just like the best vintage did. P6 suffers from a very stiff sound in general and its amp stages weren't the best design imo, learned from and improved for the OB-6.
I just knew after lots of discontent and never-quite-there sound making on the P6 (and esp my ex-Rev 2 which is really bad when it comes to osc/filter tone and is only impressive via modulation and layers which is 'meh' to me if the core tone is grating in a track) that as soon as I dialed in a sound on the OB-6.. there it was! Just like a good analog synthesizer should be, rich, inspirational, present, easy to dial in without 'concern' about shaping its tone to kingdom come TRYING to make it sound good (ala P6) or knowing it will always sound like a poor/flat/weak impression of analog (Rev2). It just works.
If you guys can't accept that, then by all means carry on with your selected gear, if you can't hear/feel the difference in these units I'd suggest you'd probably better off saving the cash and just buying a VA or even a soft synth, I doubt it would matter to you. To me it's 100% vital, If I'm spending money on hardware it had better deliver on a instinctive and gut/connection level, not in the head where you keep it around because its "clever" (rev2) or because it can occasionally do some nice things (P6), for me I want it to hit me in the face how awesome it sounds each time I make a new sound on it, even if it's a subtle, delicate sound you can barely hear in the mix, I will know and that has an effect on the quality of the music you put out too.
OB-6 is better at bass, leads, pads, filter sweeps, delicate pretty sounds, atmospheres (other than very clinical cold ones which Prophets excel at and have their place) and even the distortion on the OB-6 (hidden vs the Prophet 6) sounds much nicer when applied to the core tone of the OB vs the P6. It sounds pasted on and harsh with the P6, but with the OB-6 it sounds super-organic like its wrapped in and around the sound. I made hundreds of sounds on my ex-Prophet 6 and none of them compare to even the lower end of my 'best' OB-6 patches. For what Rev2 and P6 do I don't think you need all that expense and space, but the OB-6 is like nothing else, even while reminiscent of past stuff it exists as a unique one of Sequential/Obie hybrid that has its own unique sound character and even when I owned all these synths it was still the first one and best one for most tasks in a song. Reviewing takes later in productions it would always be the OB-6 that 'won' and stayed, sometimes the Prophet 6 for its specific cool 'dull but atmospheric' sound (another thing with P6 its too brassy and squeaky/stiff until you reduce the cut off and then it just sounds full/muted... good for some things but it's not a 'fun' filter by any means.. and rev 2 is just dire there.. one tiny sweet spot the rest is like plastic)
I'm not alone in my findings of how vastly different musically these synths are and to many 'real' musicians who don't just collect synths and noodle all day, great tone is what comes first.. not features.. same with guitar recording, you don't just settle on a honkey sounding paper bag take of a cheap guitar when you can record something much richer... the OB-6 is that 'much richer' thing in the modern synth world. Nothing so far has touched it, not Modal, Not Moog, Not Korg, Not Roland and not even DSI's other offerings.
Last bonus points to OB-6 vs P6 and Rev2: It sits in the mix perfectly, very little work needed.. that's great workflow. Also it seems to make better use of the internal FX, somehow they just sound more beautiful and worthy when used with the OB-6 engine, like it was meant to be. They sound like band-aids on the Prophets but can be part of the sonic sculpture on the OB-6 without sounding cheap or stuck on! 8)
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I have both the OB6 and Prophet REV2, and can appreciate both of them even if I have a preference for the OB6 when it comes to sounds.
But, in all honesty, there is a lot that the REV2 offers that the OB6 doesn't. Mainly, better modulation capabilities (that mod matrix is great) with more LFOs, better polyphony, and even a lower price point. And that's why the REV2 is still in my keyboard stand next to the OB6. Probably until the UB-Xa comes along... ;-)
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Those calling me out on being too choosy or w/e that's what we do with our tastes as musicians....
If you guys can't accept that, then by all means carry on with your selected gear, if you can't hear/feel the difference in these units I'd suggest you'd probably better off saving the cash and just buying a VA or even a soft synth, I doubt it would matter to you. To me it's 100% vital,...
No one is attacking you. Most of us have owned a wide palette of synths and have a wide range of tastes. So you attract some response when you imply that people have inferior taste to yours. And contradicting yourself doesn't help.
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I am a new REV2 owner but after watching some youtube videos and experiencing the REV2, the OB6 sounds WAY warmer. Am I mistaken? Looking for pros/cons of keeping REV2 vs upgrading....
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I am a new REV2 owner but after watching some youtube videos and experiencing the REV2, the OB6 sounds WAY warmer. Am I mistaken? Looking for pros/cons of keeping REV2 vs upgrading....
The REV2 has a lot of advantages over the OB6. More voices for better polyphony, longer envelope times to take advantage of that enhanced polyphony (with long pads sounds), a very versatile modulation matrix, more LFOs, patch naming, and it can sound quite good when programmed carefully.
The OB6 has that sweet Oberheim SEM-based filter, no menu diving at all, a more back to basics and hands-on programming style, and of course a slightly sweeter sound (if that's what you're looking for).
Like I said earlier, they're both great synths, each with their advantages and drawbacks. I'd say that having a REV2 is still a keeper. I own both, and after a few years, they're both still in my set-up.
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I am a new REV2 owner but after watching some youtube videos and experiencing the REV2, the OB6 sounds WAY warmer. Am I mistaken? Looking for pros/cons of keeping REV2 vs upgrading....
I sold my Rev2 for an OB6 since I didn't have $$ to keep both. 90% of the poly sounds I want the OB6 does, I like the layout, simplicity, and that it feels more like "an instrument" all around...but I definitely underestimated how great and versatile the Rev2 was and how (relatively) limited the OB6 is. I don't regret it, but I'd be on the fence about doing it again.
If you're just thinking "oh, it sounds like this synth is even MORE premium/warm," then I'd stick with the Rev2 because it is amazing and SO MUCH more flexible. You could say the same things about the Prophet 6, Moog One, etc...but really, the Rev2 is one of the great poly synths out there. But the OB6 is there for you if you want very specifically those sounds, and are truly ok with the fact that it'll only make those sounds.
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I am a new REV2 owner but after watching some youtube videos and experiencing the REV2, the OB6 sounds WAY warmer. Am I mistaken? Looking for pros/cons of keeping REV2 vs upgrading....
As an owner of a P6, OB6 and Rev2 I can tell you that Dave's product line design is very well thought out, and each product has a unique role in the lineup. One of them is not a replacement for the other, because they each have their strengths.
The Prophet 6 and OB-6 will sound warmer than the Rev2 when comparing presets or init patches due to the nature of VCO vs. DCO, and they will "default" to a warmer feel. But this doesn't mean the Rev2 can't sound warm. What's more, DCOs tend to hold their sound across a broader octave range, including holding deep bass farther into lower key ranges... it is no coincidence that the Rev2 keyboard has an extra octave over the P6 and OB-6.
The OB-6 sounds fat, but the tradeoff is that the natural tuning slop that makes it fat can become a liability in the mix at times (too much of a good thing). Meanwhile, having less natural slop allows the Rev2 to play richer chords with longer release times (achieving the same harmonic richness/warmth that makes VCO based synths sound good when playing a few notes dry).
I regard all three synths as equals; they each have their place. As mentioned, there is something about that Oberheim filter (beyond just the fact that it is a SVF) that makes the OB-6 able to do some things that the Prophets can't. And each of the Prophet 6 and Rev2 can do some things that the other cannot. The OB-6 is a great poly, but it's somewhat of a "special purpose" synth.
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Very true. The special purpose of my OB-6 is to be my primary polysynth. Good thing it’s up to the job, and then some.
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Very true. The special purpose of my OB-6 is to be my primary polysynth. Good thing it’s up to the job, and then some.
The OB-6 is a fantastic synth that has a permanent place in my studio! I think it is good to supplement it with other gear, though. I only say this because the SEM filter puts a slight "fizz" on everything; it's an amazing fizz that's always welcome, but in a mix it can have the effect of putting one's favorite salad dressing on all courses of a gourmet meal... not everything should have the same flavor and maybe that fizz shouldn't be on every sound in a mix. There are certain types of sounds and timbres I get out of the Prophet 6 that I just can't seem to duplicate from the OB-6.
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Looking for pros/cons of keeping REV2 vs upgrading....
You can always upgrade to a, warmer, sound with a good pre-amp on your Rev2. Lots of Neve1073 clones out there (WarmAudio is cheap), OTO Boum, Elektron Heat, if you have a 500 series kit there's stuff available there too, Radial even make one in 500 series called a "warmer" ::)
Hire one if you can and plug the Rev2 into it.
By the way, if you didn't already know it, every synth that's been recorded to a record most likely went thru some sort of Neve/AMS/SSL pre-amp+EQ mojo dojo. No harm in having one yourself.
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I'm a happy DSI customer with my OB-6. I was jonesin' for a Rev2 or other digital synth for the variety and patch flexibility. I have played with a couple of modern, very sophisticated hardware synths, but I recently bought a copy of Serum, a high-end ITB digital synth. It has satisfied my need/desire for a wider range of sounds and/but is a VERY different experience than playing the OB6 (even when I use the OB6 keybed as a controller!).
I have also played around with a buddy's Buchla collection and just jumped on-board with the brand-new "Pendulate" from Newfangled Audio...a completely West Coast experience that complements the OB-6 well in productions.
My "happy place", however, is still with the OB-6...