The Official Sequential/DSI Forum

SEQUENTIAL/DSI => Tempest => Topic started by: Pajor Hill on May 27, 2018, 02:24:16 PM

Title: What onboard efx are on the Tempest?
Post by: Pajor Hill on May 27, 2018, 02:24:16 PM
Can not find exactly what efx are on the unit?

Can we have bit reduction on a snare and then say a filter on  kick separately?
Title: Re: What onboard efx are on the Tempest?
Post by: Yorgos Arabatzis on May 27, 2018, 03:26:52 PM
Midi Delay,filters,reverse per sound/beat,beat repeat per sound/beat,arpeggiator per sound,master compressor and distortion.Thatís all there is...
Can not find exactly what efx are on the unit?

Can we have bit reduction on a snare and then say a filter on  kick separately?
Title: Re: What onboard efx are on the Tempest?
Post by: muleskinner on May 30, 2018, 01:50:31 AM
Personally I find the 'midi delay' to be pretty much useless as you don't seem to be able to use it if a sound is assigned to a voice and, I suppose logically, it steals voices like crazy.

The best way to think of the Tempest is as a six voice synth with a compressor and distortion on the master outs, so you don't get the compressor/distortion if using one of the individual voice outs (this has both advantages and disadvantages).

The Tempest really opened up for me when I started using it with an external mixer so I can use a few send fx as well as fx on individual voices and I'd highly recommend anyone planning on buying one as factoring something like this into their long-term plan. I think the Tempest internal mixer pretty much blows as sounds lose 'punch' as you turn them down (I have tested this and the envelopes react totally differently for some reason). Others don't seem to have issues with it though.

Title: Re: What onboard efx are on the Tempest?
Post by: John the Savage on May 30, 2018, 04:22:35 AM
I think the Tempest internal mixer pretty much blows as sounds lose 'punch' as you turn them down (I have tested this and the envelopes react totally differently for some reason). Others don't seem to have issues with it though.

That's because the Tempest's so-called "mixer" section isn't really a mixer at all, but rather just a set of redundant controls over the VCA's, placed before the feedback circuit, which is fed from the left output, last in the signal chain.  This is why the character of your sounds change so drastically when you turn them up and down in volume, or pan them left and right.  It's useless.  Very frustrating.  A terrible, lazy design decision, all to avoid having to modify the architecture of the synth voice they've been recycling for decades...

Cheers!
Title: Re: What onboard efx are on the Tempest?
Post by: muleskinner on May 30, 2018, 06:06:33 AM
That's because the Tempest's so-called "mixer" section isn't really a mixer at all, but rather just a set of redundant controls over the VCA's, placed before the feedback circuit, which is fed from the left output, last in the signal chain.  This is why the character of your sounds change so drastically when you turn them up and down in volume, or pan them left and right.  It's useless.  Very frustrating.  A terrible, lazy design decision, all to avoid having to modify the architecture of the synth voice they've been recycling for decades...

Yeah, I suspected as much. It's like the volume level you set in the mixer is attenuating the 'amount' of the amp envelope or something like that. Even on sounds without feedback it ruins the punch/attack character if you turn things down. I'm sure this is why loads of people bitch about the T lacking 'punch' which couldn't be further from the truth if you know how to use it properly (IMO of course)!
Title: Re: What onboard efx are on the Tempest?
Post by: AdamXAudio on May 31, 2018, 07:07:49 PM
That's because the Tempest's so-called "mixer" section isn't really a mixer at all, but rather just a set of redundant controls over the VCA's, placed before the feedback circuit, which is fed from the left output, last in the signal chain.  This is why the character of your sounds change so drastically when you turn them up and down in volume, or pan them left and right.  It's useless.  Very frustrating.  A terrible, lazy design decision, all to avoid having to modify the architecture of the synth voice they've been recycling for decades...

Yeah, I suspected as much. It's like the volume level you set in the mixer is attenuating the 'amount' of the amp envelope or something like that. Even on sounds without feedback it ruins the punch/attack character if you turn things down. I'm sure this is why loads of people bitch about the T lacking 'punch' which couldn't be further from the truth if you know how to use it properly (IMO of course)!

Interesting about the VCA's and the mixer.  I actually think the biggest reason people think the Tempest lacks punch is because they crank up the compressor thinking it will add punch, and it doesn't.  The compressor acts like a transient enhancer basically and doesn't give the body/volume increase people normally think of from like a LA-2A.  The distortion also has a high frequency dampening on it, which makes it less useful except for specific situations honestly.  I'm guessing the distortion was designed to be a temporary filtered/distortion effect you enable while tweaking a beat, instead of a static distortion you set and forget just to give the drums some oomph.
Title: Re: What onboard efx are on the Tempest?
Post by: John the Savage on June 01, 2018, 01:00:39 AM
That's because the Tempest's so-called "mixer" section isn't really a mixer at all, but rather just a set of redundant controls over the VCA's, placed before the feedback circuit, which is fed from the left output, last in the signal chain.  This is why the character of your sounds change so drastically when you turn them up and down in volume, or pan them left and right.  It's useless.  Very frustrating.  A terrible, lazy design decision, all to avoid having to modify the architecture of the synth voice they've been recycling for decades...

Yeah, I suspected as much. It's like the volume level you set in the mixer is attenuating the 'amount' of the amp envelope or something like that. Even on sounds without feedback it ruins the punch/attack character if you turn things down. I'm sure this is why loads of people bitch about the T lacking 'punch' which couldn't be further from the truth if you know how to use it properly (IMO of course)!

Interesting about the VCA's and the mixer.  I actually think the biggest reason people think the Tempest lacks punch is because they crank up the compressor thinking it will add punch, and it doesn't.  The compressor acts like a transient enhancer basically and doesn't give the body/volume increase people normally think of from like a LA-2A.  The distortion also has a high frequency dampening on it, which makes it less useful except for specific situations honestly.  I'm guessing the distortion was designed to be a temporary filtered/distortion effect you enable while tweaking a beat, instead of a static distortion you set and forget just to give the drums some oomph.

The compressor on the Tempest is a single-band, linear, stereo compressor with fixed attack and decay times... This means that a well-balanced mix is critical to its performance.  With this style of compressor, even the smallest sound is capable of "draining" the compressor and severely biasing your mix: i.e. a hi-hat or shaker, the transient on a kick, a tiny blip of noise... Anything.  So if your hi-hat is a couple dB too loud, for instance, when you crank the compressor, your kick and bass will lose amplitude and presence, and vice versa.  But if you know how to mix to accommodate this kind of compressor, it will provide plenty of punch, pumping and breathing, and a number of other compression tricks.

Compression is possibly the most misunderstood and misused effect in music production.  It cannot correct for a poor mix or shoddy sound design.  In fact, most of the time, if the audio engineering is good, compression is completely unnecessary beyond a bit of peak limiting.

Cheers!
Title: Re: What onboard efx are on the Tempest?
Post by: Pajor Hill on June 01, 2018, 05:32:15 AM
Though I'm sad by the fact that the Tempest doesnt have more effects I feel that the Tempest is made for one thing only now.

Being creative. At what cost?


1999.99
Title: Re: What onboard efx are on the Tempest?
Post by: AdamXAudio on June 01, 2018, 06:24:54 AM
Though I'm sad by the fact that the Tempest doesnt have more effects I feel that the Tempest is made for one thing only now.

Being creative. At what cost?


1999.99

It's a matter or perspective. You can pay $3k+ for a Moog that doesn't have any onboard effects. Analog synths are a lot like guitars where they get better with processing, and the Tempest is a fantastic sound source for beats/synths/sfx.  An onboard BBD delay or reverb would've been awesome, but the Tempest is still a unique and flexible tool without it IMO.
Title: Re: What onboard efx are on the Tempest?
Post by: Yorgos Arabatzis on June 01, 2018, 08:14:04 AM
This ^
Tempest is the super source!
Title: Re: What onboard efx are on the Tempest?
Post by: John the Savage on June 01, 2018, 04:45:33 PM
Though I'm sad by the fact that the Tempest doesnt have more effects I feel that the Tempest is made for one thing only now.

Being creative. At what cost?


1999.99

Lord knows, Iím no advocate for DSI or the Tempest, but if thereís two things I canít stand people griping about, itís the Tempestís shortcomings as a synth, and the price of it.  Anyone complaining about either of those aspects, simply put, is out of their depth.  In the hands of a professional producer/engineer, the Tempest is a vastly capable sound design tool, and youíd be hard-pressed to find a proper analog poly with this much modulation at nearly twice the price.  Period.

Now, is the price prohibitive?  Yes.  Is it aimed at weekend warrior, push button, preset using, hobbyists and bedroom producers?  No.

Sometimes I feel like Iím the only one upset by the Tempestís actual failings: like its lagging clock output, stuck pads, broken arp, random voice stealing, lacking MIDI implementation, and inconsistencies with the GUI.  But ya, itís pricy alright, and if youíre not a serious sound designer, youíre doomed to floppy sounding drums.  Itís probably the compressorís fault though (wink).

Cheers!
Title: Re: What onboard efx are on the Tempest?
Post by: ddp on June 01, 2018, 05:31:06 PM
I like my Tempest.  I bought it a few months ago, knowing that the OS wasn't going to be patched any more and that there were still bugs.  It wasn't cheap I suppose, but I like it.  It does exactly what I thought it would and it sounds fantastic.
Title: Re: What onboard efx are on the Tempest?
Post by: LoboLives on June 01, 2018, 09:19:55 PM
I think the onboard effects of the Tempest are fine. The distortion cuts in a bit too quick instead of gradually but the midi delay and compressor are fine. I personally enjoy it's "limitations" just how I enjoy it's onboard samples. The Tom Cart samples, the BOSS drum samples, the LM1, and Linn Drum samples...I think that if used properly they could really stand out in your mix.

As far as reverb goes? Sure a nice gated reverb on a snare would be nice but I worked around that, I simply layered the snare with a bit of noise and extended the amp release and in a mix it sounds just like gated reverb but regardless synths and drum machines never used to have on board effects on them and almost all those iconic sounds you hear on records where run through chorus, reverbs and other external units...so do the same. My Moog and Oberheim don't have any effects...do I care? Nah, run it through some external pedals or rack units.

Personally I think this thing would work wonders with the Tempest, Moog and Oberheim.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yH_dv-ccwDA
Title: Re: What onboard efx are on the Tempest?
Post by: muleskinner on June 02, 2018, 02:33:41 AM
In the hands of a professional producer/engineer, the Tempest is a vastly capable sound design tool, and youíd be hard-pressed to find a proper analog poly with this much modulation at nearly twice the price.  Period.
Quote

Let alone a proper analog, multitimbral poly with a very capable internal sequencer and two digital oscillators with sample playback as a bonus!

Sometimes I feel like Iím the only one upset by the Tempestís actual failings: like its lagging clock output, stuck pads, broken arp, random voice stealing, lacking MIDI implementation, and inconsistencies with the GUI.

Oh I don't think you're the only one ;) - though it's only really the underwhelming MIDI implementation that really bothers me. I always run it as a slave and I actually think the GUI is pretty damn good at making a very complex sound design tool generally very accessible.  The only thing about it that bugs me is the way you can't tweak a parameter in the mod matrix and a parameter that's directly accessible via the 'normal' knobs at the same time because the screen keeps switching. That's an unfortunate UI fail.

As far as FX go I recommend scouring ebay for cheap rackmount gear. You can pick up perfectly useable stuff for peanuts.