The Official Sequential/Oberheim Forum
SEQUENTIAL/DSI => Prophet => Sequential Prophet X => Topic started by: Sacred Synthesis on April 28, 2018, 06:20:20 AM
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This thread will serve for Prophet X discussion, until DSI opens a new section for the instrument.
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Will be interesting to read the specifications when available.
Looks great though!
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Interesting that 8Dio is working with DSI. I wonder if that means owners will have access to their libraries OR if only 8Dio samples will be compatible.
I also wonder if there is direct recording into it.
From what I've seen there are Two INSTRUMENT knobs and two OSCILATOR knobs...so there is still some type of synthesis going on here...I wonder if that means the VS waves and waves from the P12 are included...I'm assuming so cause of the touch strips on the side.
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Ha ha.... I knew something like this would eventually come... too many people has been begging for a hybrid samplesynth... now the only thing people can hope for is that you can use your own samples... would be surprised if not, after the havoc the Tempest created when not being able to...
I'm not getting this though, as I've gone modular, but I welcome this synth... seems like the right choice at the right moment :)
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Seems like Sequential finally got their Model X. Anyone spotted the falcon wings? ;)
Seriously: Not sure if its a machine for me but it looks interesting. And maybe that voice could be the basis for a synth that interests me? In any case: always happy to see them head in a more adventurous direction.
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I'm placing my order soon as it's announced for release. It's everything I wanted in a modern sampler from what I've heard/seen.
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I wonder if X stands for 10 voices.
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I wonder if X stands for 10 voices.
There's a button that says "16 Voice" on it. X also stands for cross and so I speculated in another thread it had to do with its crossover (as in hybrid) nature, yet others thought it had more to do with putting a shining light on cross-fading.
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I'm placing my order soon as it's announced for release. It's everything I wanted in a modern sampler from what I've heard/seen.
Very happy to hear that! Its always nice when a manufacturer designs a much sought after instrument. However, may I suggest that you before ordering read up on all details of the instrument once its announced? In that way you are absolutely sure it will fit your intended uses.
The reason I am saying this is that its usually always better to get past the hype phase after a new instrument is announced so that one can see what the instrument actually is and can do in practice. With that said I can only agree that it looks very interesting!
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Looking forward to the specs on this, fingers crossed that you can have user multisamples.
I'm also hoping it will be fully digital, that should keep the price a bit lower.
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There's an image of it here...
Looks like it has the same display as the P12/Pro2 PLUS 2 smaller OLED displays like on the REV2.
I"m VERY excited about this synth.
If hybrid means digital and analogue oscillators and if it's 16 note polyphonic then it's definitely on the shopping list.
Keeping my fingers crossed. :)
http://www.synthtopia.com/content/2018/04/27/dave-smith-instruments-teases-sequential-x-synthesizer/
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I'm hoping it's useless so that I don't end up spending even more money on synths ;) ;D
Seriously though it looks very interesting and I can't wait to see/hear more about it
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I wonder if X stands for 10 voices.
X stands for what it always stands for: eXtreme!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I'm placing my order soon as it's announced for release. It's everything I wanted in a modern sampler from what I've heard/seen.
Very happy to hear that! Its always nice when a manufacturer designs a much sought after instrument. However, may I suggest that you before ordering read up on all details of the instrument once its announced? In that way you are absolutely sure it will fit your intended uses.
The reason I am saying this is that its usually always better to get past the hype phase after a new instrument is announced so that one can see what the instrument actually is and can do in practice. With that said I can only agree that it looks very interesting!
Oh of course but from what I’ve seen/heard it looks to be everything I wanted it to be. Last year I even suggested the Prophet X name for a digital synth/sampler and bringing Sequential name back so the fact they are doing all those things exactly kind of makes it feel personal to me.
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Looking forward to the specs on this, fingers crossed that you can have user multisamples.
I'm also hoping it will be fully digital, that should keep the price a bit lower.
If it does NOT have analog filters, then I believe many will not want it... there are plenty of other options out there for such a synth in 100% digital format... besides... with 16 voices, it would be even worse.... the 16 voice though, does indicate that we're talking at least analog Curtis filters ;) ... I bet this synth is a modified P12... basically what I've been talking about in the past... four oscillators, but two of them exchanged for sampling oscillators... the pads... the 5 octaves... it looks a lot like a modified P12 engine to me here at first glance ;)
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I might actually go for this one.... I need ONE polyphonic synth to complement my Eurorack system, and if this has been done right, I might go for this as that one polysynth... but for this to be in question at all, the sample oscillators WILL NEED to have usersample capabillities... if it's just a ROM bank like the Tempest, I'll pass...
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Last year I even suggested the Prophet X name for a digital synth/sampler and bringing Sequential name back so the fact they are doing all those things exactly kind of makes it feel personal to me.
Prophet X is a great name. So if you are the source of that name I would like to complement you on good naming taste! ;-)
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[...] with 16 voices, it would be even worse.... the 16 voice though, does indicate that we're talking at least analog Curtis filters ;)
Certainly looking forward to see what filters it uses. My guess would be Curtis or the new SSM chips. But I am ready for a pleasant discrete component filter surprise.
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[...] with 16 voices, it would be even worse.... the 16 voice though, does indicate that we're talking at least analog Curtis filters ;)
Certainly looking forward to see what filters it uses. My guess would be Curtis or the new SSM chips. But I am ready for a pleasant discrete component filter surprise.
With 16 voices it's unlikely a discrete filter... that would raise the price quite a bit i think... I don't think it's all that important though as long as it's analog... but that's my view of course.
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With 16 voices it's unlikely a discrete filter... that would raise the price quite a bit i think... I don't think it's all that important though as long as it's analog... but that's my view of course.
Good question as I remember a Dave interview at SuperBooth in which he said that the discrete components are not that much more expensive than the Curtis chips. Of cause I do not know the actual numbers for this. But it will be interesting to see voice count, price and the exact filter type.
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Looking forward to the specs on this, fingers crossed that you can have user multisamples.
I'm also hoping it will be fully digital, that should keep the price a bit lower.
If it does NOT have analog filters, then I believe many will not want it... there are plenty of other options out there for such a synth in 100% digital format... besides... with 16 voices, it would be even worse.... the 16 voice though, does indicate that we're talking at least analog Curtis filters ;) ... I bet this synth is a modified P12... basically what I've been talking about in the past... four oscillators, but two of them exchanged for sampling oscillators... the pads... the 5 octaves... it looks a lot like a modified P12 engine to me here at first glance ;)
I’m not sure about that, not everyone cares about analog and even the Gearslutz fanatics count Curtis filters in the same league as digital ones. A move towards the nord type gigging keyboards that people use to do a job rather than make bleeping noises might not be a bad one. I bet you are right though, Curtis filters digital everything else.
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Looking forward to the specs on this, fingers crossed that you can have user multisamples.
I'm also hoping it will be fully digital, that should keep the price a bit lower.
If it does NOT have analog filters, then I believe many will not want it... there are plenty of other options out there for such a synth in 100% digital format... besides... with 16 voices, it would be even worse.... the 16 voice though, does indicate that we're talking at least analog Curtis filters ;) ... I bet this synth is a modified P12... basically what I've been talking about in the past... four oscillators, but two of them exchanged for sampling oscillators... the pads... the 5 octaves... it looks a lot like a modified P12 engine to me here at first glance ;)
I’m not sure about that, not everyone cares about analog and even the Gearslutz fanatics count Curtis filters in the same league as digital ones. A move towards the nord type gigging keyboards that people use to do a job rather than make bleeping noises might not be a bad one. I bet you are right though, Curtis filters digital everything else.
But honestly... who wants to pay that much for a 100% digital synth with only 16 voices, when there are much cheaper ones with a lot more voices? ... it would certainly have to be a rather special new synth then... besides... the demo that is out... I felt I could hear that Curtis "timbre"... I may be mistaken... time will tell :D
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Has Dave ever done a completely digital hardware synth besides the Wavestation? I think people are expecting at least an analog filter to somewhat set it apart (with the addition of some digital filter options as well would be cool). I don't think the oscillators are analog (DCO & certainly not VCO) because it would have been a mistake not to give equal emphasis to that in the teaser. Although if it did that would be massive for truly setting it apart above all the rest. Also if they're trying to take the likes of Nord head on for example, then I would expect a fully weighted 88 keyed version as well, which is what I personally want from this.
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I think the point of the Prophet X to me is to use samples as sound sources instead of wave forms. Then run them with synth action keys, sequencers, arpeggiators, and yes I’m sure it will have analog filters and VCAs. Basically they are taking the idea of a Nord Wave .but having a better library (Kontakt) and analog VCOs and VCAs. I’m almost certain. There’s enough digital pianos around...that’s not what this is for. This is combining the concept of the Emulator with the knob per function interaction of a Prophet. I’m sold.
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I agree. I (want to) believe the most likely scenario is:
- Curtis analog filters, VCA
- User sampling
- A new-to-this-generation, Interesting real-time control of the sampling (with respect to full-key boards)
My guess/hope:
- DCO like Rev2
(I don't think P6/OB6-style VCO & discrete filters are likely.)
I don't believe this will be multi-level sampling. If it is, I'd be impressed. (Hard, but possible, to manage on screen.) If it is, I see it being 4 levels deep.
I think, in some sense, the 8dio relationship will be like relationship between Nord's library & its keyboards. In that, a bunch will come in board; more of those can be swapped in.
And, user samples, can also be added. ... I suppose there exists the possibility user sampling is "too much" for this one board; & the X lacks it.
I don't think it would be digital filter/VCA.
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I guess it'll be like an extended Rev2 16 voices working ala PEK, the two osc of the DSI-120 and two multi-samples... I'd be surprised if it's not possible to import user samples, as on the Nord Wave or on the Waldorf Blofeld.
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With synthesis and sampling in the same box, this would also be a contender for Waldorf's Quantum which has some of the same features really....
What I guess is that what this will be, is two P12 oscillators coupled with two new innovative sampling oscillators, and i base that conclusion on the video where you can clearly see the "instrument 1 &2" knobs in addition to two Synth knobs... i would not be surprised, that if you open up the X, you may find that it's just an updated P12 voiceboard with 4 more voices in there, and a partly rewritten P12 OS... which is actually pretty much fine! ... that is what I've been wanting and talking about in the past :)
I'm definitely looking forward to seeing the specs on this...
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Honestly, although user sampling would be nice, if you could have access to the Kontakt libraries and load them into the synth itself I'd be more than happy with that. I mean they are probably the best samples on the market anyway and if you have the ability to manipulate them with the synth engine and run them through analog filters then I'm okay with it. Although....I do have a gut feeling it will allow user samples.
I also don't think they will be analog oscillators with it but digital oscillators with VS waves, Prophet 12 waves. May as well strike two birds with one stone. VS/FM/Wave type synthesis and samples.
I do wonder how much timbrality there is. It would be nice if each oscillator had it's own sequencer and if it does splits and layers then essentially you could have 8 sequences going.
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Lobo- wanted to let you know I'm very happy for you, as you've been vocal about wanting to commit to something in this land asap. ...
I'm in a "in-a-commitment" status, but I share in your excitement about DSI making an exciting instrument. Hopefully I'll be "available" when there exists a stellar performance keyboard with user sampling through backend filters & amp and fast & fun workflow. I'm commenting from that perspective.
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Razmo- I agree about likelihood of P12 osc.
Lobo- I fully agree about both the possibility and maintained useful excellence of a lack of user sampling.
I'll be very surprised if it's beyond bi-timbral. That seems to have been a constancy with DSI; I assume it's their take on the balance between "function" and "fun & fast flow".
Razón, is how my spellchecker communicated Razmo.
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Honestly, although user sampling would be nice, if you could have access to the Kontakt libraries and load them into the synth itself I'd be more than happy with that. I mean they are probably the best samples on the market anyway and if you have the ability to manipulate them with the synth engine and run them through analog filters then I'm okay with it. Although....I do have a gut feeling it will allow user samples.
I also don't think they will be analog oscillators with it but digital oscillators with VS waves, Prophet 12 waves. May as well strike two birds with one stone. VS/FM/Wave type synthesis and samples.
I do wonder how much timbrality there is. It would be nice if each oscillator had it's own sequencer and if it does splits and layers then essentially you could have 8 sequences going.
"The Best"... that definitely depends on who you are, and what type of music you're making.. ROM samples is really a no-go in my opinion because the samples WILL be outdated at some point... being able to load your own will make the longevity of this sampler synth a hell of a lot longer.
Besides there is no point in ROM samples anymore... that is from a time where RAM was expensive... todays FLASH options are so cheap it would be a nobrainer to include user samples. The only thing it would require is more OS code to accomodate for it, and of course some form of storage device like SD card etc.
I for one would most likely feel I need other samples simply because my samples would be specifically made for what I do... if I wanted a specific vocal phrase I would not be able to find one (especially if I wanted my own voice!).. .if I wanted my own samples of nature and acoustic things, I'd not be able to find it in a ROM... also the types of FX sounds I'd require I believe I'd not be able to find either...
I know that different people means different needs... some people may be satisfied with a ROM sample pack, but I definitely would not, that's a 100% certainty :)
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Well I think it's too early to speculate on it's sampling abilities but regardless it's nice to see DSI pushing forward into new territories. If it does indeed have amazing sampling abilities (i.e. immediate mapping to the entire keyboard) and if they can manage to bring it in to a nice price point then it pretty much destroys the Quantum.
I do wonder...at Namm the demonstrator at Waldorf was discussing the sampling abilities of the Quantum and was like "Well it's no Kontakt..." if Dave probably was like "Hmmmm" hehe
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Lobo- wanted to let you know I'm very happy for you, as you've been vocal about wanting to commit to something in this land asap. ...
Lobo- I fully agree about both the possibility and maintained useful excellence of a lack of user sampling.
I'll be very surprised if it's beyond bi-timbral. That seems to have been a constancy with DSI; I assume it's their take on the balance between "function" and "fun & fast flow".
Thanks so much! I'm shock that not only did I get the abilities that I wanted out of this thing but also the exact name I thought of: Sequential Prophet X.
True but if you could sequence individual oscillators then it would sort of give the illusion of multitimbrality. Say it has splits and layers, each part will have 4 oscillators (two instruments and two synths)....might be possible. You could sequence each of the oscillators separately in the Poly Evolver if I'm not mistaken...so it may not be that unrealistic.
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Well I think it's too early to speculate on it's sampling abilities but regardless it's nice to see DSI pushing forward into new territories. If it does indeed have amazing sampling abilities (i.e. immediate mapping to the entire keyboard) and if they can manage to bring it in to a nice price point then it pretty much destroys the Quantum.
I do wonder...at Namm the demonstrator at Waldorf was discussing the sampling abilities of the Quantum and was like "Well it's no Kontakt..." if Dave probably was like "Hmmmm" hehe
When the specs are out, we'll know if it's an attack on the Quantum... But honestly, it will have to be REALLY GOOD to compete with it... It may though be, that people do not need all the power of the Quantum, and are having breathing problems related to its price, so if I'm guessing right, the X is more what I once thought Waldorf should have done... Create seperate synths with the engines at a lower price... I bet the X could be seen as a synth that takes two engines like that, and double up on the voicecount... A really wise choice if the X is priced just right... People who wanted the Quantum for the sampling capabillities with analog filters will surely be thinking twice before getting the Quantum now.
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Well I think it's too early to speculate on it's sampling abilities but regardless it's nice to see DSI pushing forward into new territories. If it does indeed have amazing sampling abilities (i.e. immediate mapping to the entire keyboard) and if they can manage to bring it in to a nice price point then it pretty much destroys the Quantum.
I do wonder...at Namm the demonstrator at Waldorf was discussing the sampling abilities of the Quantum and was like "Well it's no Kontakt..." if Dave probably was like "Hmmmm" hehe
When the specs are out, we'll know if it's an attack on the Quantum... But honestly, it will have to be REALLY GOOD to compete with it... It may though be, that people do not need all the power of the Quantum, and are having breathing problems related to its price, so if I'm guessing right, the X is more what I once thought Waldorf should have done... Create seperate synths with the engines at a lower price... I bet the X could be seen as a synth that takes two engines like that, and double up on the voicecount... A really wise choice if the X is priced just right... People who wanted the Quantum for the sampling capabillities with analog filters will surely be thinking twice before getting the Quantum now.
I'll be honest, the Quantum seems to be sort of a jack of all trades/master of few type of thing. It's insanely powerful but it seems to lack focus and lack it's own identity. The sounds I've heard so far have been underwhelming...almost nothing stood out to me that I couldn't be able to get out of a Blofeld. I just don't see the sound justifying the price point....but then again I got the Two Voice Pro for $5k so....
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A really wise choice if the X is priced just right...
My guess for the Prophet X price would be around $2.5k to $3k given what the video shows and how many voices it is said to have. But I am ready for a surprise!
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A really wise choice if the X is priced just right...
My guess for the Prophet X price would be around $2.5k to $3k given what the video shows and how many voices it is said to have. But I am ready for a surprise!
I'd say maybe $2500 with an additional $500 if you want access to additional Kontakt sounds for life.
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Well I think it's too early to speculate on it's sampling abilities but regardless it's nice to see DSI pushing forward into new territories. If it does indeed have amazing sampling abilities (i.e. immediate mapping to the entire keyboard) and if they can manage to bring it in to a nice price point then it pretty much destroys the Quantum.
I do wonder...at Namm the demonstrator at Waldorf was discussing the sampling abilities of the Quantum and was like "Well it's no Kontakt..." if Dave probably was like "Hmmmm" hehe
Word is that the Prophet X was already fairly far along by then, enough for an off-site private viewing by select audiences–but there's nothing to say that Kontakt instruments couldn't be loaded onto a Quantum-style device.
Thing is–and Razmo alluded to this already–even with highly crafted sound libraries, they can get stale or dated quickly once you start hearing them in a wider variety of contexts.
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I hope this will be more than duotimbral. Also hope you can change the note range of samples easily, i.e., how DM worked with Emax II's in the 101 days. Add master controller features, and there might be a REV2 up on craiglist soon. If not, it will still be an excellent instrument, but likely not for me.
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Well I think it's too early to speculate on it's sampling abilities but regardless it's nice to see DSI pushing forward into new territories. If it does indeed have amazing sampling abilities (i.e. immediate mapping to the entire keyboard) and if they can manage to bring it in to a nice price point then it pretty much destroys the Quantum.
I do wonder...at Namm the demonstrator at Waldorf was discussing the sampling abilities of the Quantum and was like "Well it's no Kontakt..." if Dave probably was like "Hmmmm" hehe
Word is that the Prophet X was already fairly far along by then, enough for an off-site private viewing by select audiences–but there's nothing to say that Kontakt instruments couldn't be loaded onto a Quantum-style device.
Thing is–and Razmo alluded to this already–even with highly crafted sound libraries, they can get stale or dated quickly once you start hearing them in a wider variety of contexts.
I just have a feeling they wouldn't bother doing a sampler unless you could have your own samples in it. I could be wrong and like I said, stale, dated whatever, my style of music is very retro in terms of synth music anyway. I'd be running things alongside a analog Prophets, Moog, Oberhiems so it's more about adding a different sound to my pallet. That's just me though.
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Of course until the specifications are advised it is pure speculation but...
It would be great if it could load user sounds/samples (at least as an option) into the unit via standard audio L/R 1/4" (6.35mm)jacks and they could be adjusted within the unit as opposed to just loading samples that have to be pre-formatted/set in with an SD card prior to.
Of course everyone's situation is different and I am pretty sure this will be a great instrument, but I for one would really go for the Emulator 2 /Prophet 2000 style approach at least as an option for people who like to use the instrument without having to resort to a computer to record the samples prior to loading into the unit.?
Just a thought...
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Of course until the specifications are advised it is pure speculation but...
It would be great if it could load user sounds/samples (at least as an option) into the unit via standard audio L/R 1/4" (6.35mm)jacks and they could be adjusted within the unit as opposed to just loading samples that have to be pre-formatted/set in with an SD card prior to.
Of course everyone's situation is different and I am pretty sure this will be a great instrument, but I for one would really go for the Emulator 2 /Prophet 2000 style approach at least as an option for people who like to use the instrument without having to resort to a computer to record the samples prior to loading into the unit.?
Just a thought...
So direct input like so....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOAdE86ZxxE
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Of course until the specifications are advised it is pure speculation but...
It would be great if it could load user sounds/samples (at least as an option) into the unit via standard audio L/R 1/4" (6.35mm)jacks and they could be adjusted within the unit as opposed to just loading samples that have to be pre-formatted/set in with an SD card prior to.
Of course everyone's situation is different and I am pretty sure this will be a great instrument, but I for one would really go for the Emulator 2 /Prophet 2000 style approach at least as an option for people who like to use the instrument without having to resort to a computer to record the samples prior to loading into the unit.?
Just a thought...
So direct input like so....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOAdE86ZxxE
Yes that is right on the money! ;D
Thanks for that and enjoyed the video! (I still.. like New order) ...
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Of course until the specifications are advised it is pure speculation but...
It would be great if it could load user sounds/samples (at least as an option) into the unit via standard audio L/R 1/4" (6.35mm)jacks and they could be adjusted within the unit as opposed to just loading samples that have to be pre-formatted/set in with an SD card prior to.
Of course everyone's situation is different and I am pretty sure this will be a great instrument, but I for one would really go for the Emulator 2 /Prophet 2000 style approach at least as an option for people who like to use the instrument without having to resort to a computer to record the samples prior to loading into the unit.?
Just a thought...
So direct input like so....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOAdE86ZxxE
Yes that is right on the money! ;D
Thanks for that and enjoyed the video! (I still.. like New order) ...
So strange that stuff like the Emulator and Fairlight had such an easy method to their sampling and now we sort of have to program a bunch in order to even map a sample across the keyboard.
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Of course until the specifications are advised it is pure speculation but...
It would be great if it could load user sounds/samples (at least as an option) into the unit via standard audio L/R 1/4" (6.35mm)jacks and they could be adjusted within the unit as opposed to just loading samples that have to be pre-formatted/set in with an SD card prior to.
Of course everyone's situation is different and I am pretty sure this will be a great instrument, but I for one would really go for the Emulator 2 /Prophet 2000 style approach at least as an option for people who like to use the instrument without having to resort to a computer to record the samples prior to loading into the unit.?
Just a thought...
So direct input like so....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOAdE86ZxxE
Yes that is right on the money! ;D
Thanks for that and enjoyed the video! (I still.. like New order) ...
So strange that stuff like the Emulator and Fairlight had such an easy method to their sampling and now we sort of have to program a bunch in order to even map a sample across the keyboard.
Maybe when expectations increase and technologies get more complex and accessible then complexities in devices do also!
Saying that, synthesisers have also become more accessible so thats a good thing.
Once I read the specifications of Prophet X then will make the decision to retire the Korg Micro-sampler.
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Of course until the specifications are advised it is pure speculation but...
It would be great if it could load user sounds/samples (at least as an option) into the unit via standard audio L/R 1/4" (6.35mm)jacks and they could be adjusted within the unit as opposed to just loading samples that have to be pre-formatted/set in with an SD card prior to.
Of course everyone's situation is different and I am pretty sure this will be a great instrument, but I for one would really go for the Emulator 2 /Prophet 2000 style approach at least as an option for people who like to use the instrument without having to resort to a computer to record the samples prior to loading into the unit.?
Just a thought...
So direct input like so....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOAdE86ZxxE
Yes that is right on the money! ;D
Thanks for that and enjoyed the video! (I still.. like New order) ...
So strange that stuff like the Emulator and Fairlight had such an easy method to their sampling and now we sort of have to program a bunch in order to even map a sample across the keyboard.
Maybe when expectations increase and technologies get more complex and accessible then complexities in devices do also!
Saying that, synthesisers have also become more accessible so thats a good thing.
Once I read the specifications of Prophet X then will make the decision to retire the Korg Micro-sampler.
Yeah I got the Microsampler too...I appreciate the idea of it being compact but damn if they made a full sized version I'd use it a lot more.
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Of course until the specifications are advised it is pure speculation but...
It would be great if it could load user sounds/samples (at least as an option) into the unit via standard audio L/R 1/4" (6.35mm)jacks and they could be adjusted within the unit as opposed to just loading samples that have to be pre-formatted/set in with an SD card prior to.
Of course everyone's situation is different and I am pretty sure this will be a great instrument, but I for one would really go for the Emulator 2 /Prophet 2000 style approach at least as an option for people who like to use the instrument without having to resort to a computer to record the samples prior to loading into the unit.?
Just a thought...
So direct input like so....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOAdE86ZxxE
Yes that is right on the money! ;D
Thanks for that and enjoyed the video! (I still.. like New order) ...
So strange that stuff like the Emulator and Fairlight had such an easy method to their sampling and now we sort of have to program a bunch in order to even map a sample across the keyboard.
Maybe when expectations increase and technologies get more complex and accessible then complexities in devices do also!
Saying that, synthesisers have also become more accessible so thats a good thing.
Once I read the specifications of Prophet X then will make the decision to retire the Korg Micro-sampler.
Yeah I got the Microsampler too...I appreciate the idea of it being compact but damn if they made a full sized version I'd use it a lot more.
I used to have an Ensoniq Mirage years ago until it went kaput.
I found the MASOS system to work detailed samples on the Mirage painful with hexadecimal but the filters and envelopes were great.
It was fun in many ways and trying to use the 64K as efficiently as you could across the keyboard.
Fast forward 20 years
I find the Korg Micro-sampler easy to use for many things but I revel back to the time when I could control the full envelope shape and the timbre of the Mirage.
The Korg Micro Sampler for me filled the void and still does as an easy to work sampling keyboard but I do hope the Prophet X has the features I would like. (Direct Sampling into VCF/VCA's)
Once I have read the specs and it hits my targets then I will be purchasing one also.
I bought Tempest in 2013 new and still own it .
I own a Prophet 08 and Mopho also. (Still own them)
The Tempest has had a checkered history on the forums but my setup it is the main beat controlled by the Engine Sequencer.
So I guess I like the DSI brand.
The tech support is top notch and the instruments well built.
My Tempest had an LED issue some years back and Tech support walked me through and advised me what to do.
Being handy with a soldering iron helped the process!
I have a Vermona perfourmer 2 and sent Vermona a question ...2 years later I am still waiting!
That's why I am more inclined (once reading the specs) that the Prophet X will enter my setup as opposed to the Waldorf Quantum or another brand.
Just my opinion.
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Of course until the specifications are advised it is pure speculation but...
It would be great if it could load user sounds/samples (at least as an option) into the unit via standard audio L/R 1/4" (6.35mm)jacks and they could be adjusted within the unit as opposed to just loading samples that have to be pre-formatted/set in with an SD card prior to.
Of course everyone's situation is different and I am pretty sure this will be a great instrument, but I for one would really go for the Emulator 2 /Prophet 2000 style approach at least as an option for people who like to use the instrument without having to resort to a computer to record the samples prior to loading into the unit.?
Just a thought...
So direct input like so....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOAdE86ZxxE
Yes that is right on the money! ;D
Thanks for that and enjoyed the video! (I still.. like New order) ...
So strange that stuff like the Emulator and Fairlight had such an easy method to their sampling and now we sort of have to program a bunch in order to even map a sample across the keyboard.
Maybe when expectations increase and technologies get more complex and accessible then complexities in devices do also!
Saying that, synthesisers have also become more accessible so thats a good thing.
Once I read the specifications of Prophet X then will make the decision to retire the Korg Micro-sampler.
Yeah I got the Microsampler too...I appreciate the idea of it being compact but damn if they made a full sized version I'd use it a lot more.
I used to have an Ensoniq Mirage years ago until it went kaput.
I found the MASOS system to work detailed samples on the Mirage painful with hexadecimal but the filters and envelopes were great.
It was fun in many ways and trying to use the 64K as efficiently as you could across the keyboard.
Fast forward 20 years
I find the Korg Micro-sampler easy to use for many things but I revel back to the time when I could control the full envelope shape and the timbre of the Mirage.
The Korg Micro Sampler for me filled the void and still does as an easy to work sampling keyboard but I do hope the Prophet X has the features I would like. (Direct Sampling into VCF/VCA's)
Once I have read the specs and it hits my targets then I will be purchasing one also.
I bought Tempest in 2013 new and still own it .
I own a Prophet 08 and Mopho also. (Still own them)
The Tempest has had a checkered history on the forums but my setup it is the main beat controlled by the Engine Sequencer.
So I guess I like the DSI brand.
The tech support is top notch and the instruments well built.
My Tempest had an LED issue some years back and Tech support walked me through and advised me what to do.
Being handy with a soldering iron helped the process!
I have a Vermona perfourmer 2 and sent Vermona a question ...2 years later I am still waiting!
That's why I am more inclined (once reading the specs) that the Prophet X will enter my setup as opposed to the Waldorf Quantum or another brand.
Just my opinion.
For me I'm heavily inspired by the John Carpenter/Alan Howarth stuff and I try to model my set up after their gear but using modern stuff and yet I still haven't been able to find the modern equivalent of the old Emulators or Kurzweil 250 or Prophet 2000 they used. With my current set up, I'm pretty well stocked in regards to my analog sound (Prophet 6, Tempest, Moog Sub 37, with a REV2 and Oberheim Two Voice Pro on the way and possibly an ARP Odyssey later on) so I want to start incorporating those sampler sounds (basses, guitars, pianos, choirs, strings, ethnic sounds etc) and those digital Prophet VS waves into my music as well. The Prophet X hopefully may have just managed to tick both my sampling needs and VS needs.
-
Of course until the specifications are advised it is pure speculation but...
It would be great if it could load user sounds/samples (at least as an option) into the unit via standard audio L/R 1/4" (6.35mm)jacks and they could be adjusted within the unit as opposed to just loading samples that have to be pre-formatted/set in with an SD card prior to.
Of course everyone's situation is different and I am pretty sure this will be a great instrument, but I for one would really go for the Emulator 2 /Prophet 2000 style approach at least as an option for people who like to use the instrument without having to resort to a computer to record the samples prior to loading into the unit.?
Just a thought...
So direct input like so....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOAdE86ZxxE
Yes that is right on the money! ;D
Thanks for that and enjoyed the video! (I still.. like New order) ...
So strange that stuff like the Emulator and Fairlight had such an easy method to their sampling and now we sort of have to program a bunch in order to even map a sample across the keyboard.
Maybe when expectations increase and technologies get more complex and accessible then complexities in devices do also!
Saying that, synthesisers have also become more accessible so thats a good thing.
Once I read the specifications of Prophet X then will make the decision to retire the Korg Micro-sampler.
Yeah I got the Microsampler too...I appreciate the idea of it being compact but damn if they made a full sized version I'd use it a lot more.
I used to have an Ensoniq Mirage years ago until it went kaput.
I found the MASOS system to work detailed samples on the Mirage painful with hexadecimal but the filters and envelopes were great.
It was fun in many ways and trying to use the 64K as efficiently as you could across the keyboard.
Fast forward 20 years
I find the Korg Micro-sampler easy to use for many things but I revel back to the time when I could control the full envelope shape and the timbre of the Mirage.
The Korg Micro Sampler for me filled the void and still does as an easy to work sampling keyboard but I do hope the Prophet X has the features I would like. (Direct Sampling into VCF/VCA's)
Once I have read the specs and it hits my targets then I will be purchasing one also.
I bought Tempest in 2013 new and still own it .
I own a Prophet 08 and Mopho also. (Still own them)
The Tempest has had a checkered history on the forums but my setup it is the main beat controlled by the Engine Sequencer.
So I guess I like the DSI brand.
The tech support is top notch and the instruments well built.
My Tempest had an LED issue some years back and Tech support walked me through and advised me what to do.
Being handy with a soldering iron helped the process!
I have a Vermona perfourmer 2 and sent Vermona a question ...2 years later I am still waiting!
That's why I am more inclined (once reading the specs) that the Prophet X will enter my setup as opposed to the Waldorf Quantum or another brand.
Just my opinion.
For me I'm heavily inspired by the John Carpenter/Alan Howarth stuff and I try to model my set up after their gear but using modern stuff and yet I still haven't been able to find the modern equivalent of the old Emulators or Kurzweil 250 or Prophet 2000 they used. With my current set up, I'm pretty well stocked in regards to my analog sound (Prophet 6, Tempest, Moog Sub 37, with a REV2 and Oberheim Two Voice Pro on the way and possibly an ARP Odyssey later on) so I want to start incorporating those sampler sounds (basses, guitars, pianos, choirs, strings, ethnic sounds etc) and those digital Prophet VS waves into my music as well. The Prophet X hopefully may have just managed to tick both my sampling needs and VS needs.
Escape from New york (Engulfed Cathedral.. love this track.) and the the Thing were fav films for me growing up and I enjoy the the soundtracks now!
John Carpenter was an auteur.
I have the Fog soundtrack in my collection. Very atmospheric!
-
Of course until the specifications are advised it is pure speculation but...
It would be great if it could load user sounds/samples (at least as an option) into the unit via standard audio L/R 1/4" (6.35mm)jacks and they could be adjusted within the unit as opposed to just loading samples that have to be pre-formatted/set in with an SD card prior to.
Of course everyone's situation is different and I am pretty sure this will be a great instrument, but I for one would really go for the Emulator 2 /Prophet 2000 style approach at least as an option for people who like to use the instrument without having to resort to a computer to record the samples prior to loading into the unit.?
Just a thought...
So direct input like so....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOAdE86ZxxE
Yes that is right on the money! ;D
Thanks for that and enjoyed the video! (I still.. like New order) ...
So strange that stuff like the Emulator and Fairlight had such an easy method to their sampling and now we sort of have to program a bunch in order to even map a sample across the keyboard.
Maybe when expectations increase and technologies get more complex and accessible then complexities in devices do also!
Saying that, synthesisers have also become more accessible so thats a good thing.
Once I read the specifications of Prophet X then will make the decision to retire the Korg Micro-sampler.
Yeah I got the Microsampler too...I appreciate the idea of it being compact but damn if they made a full sized version I'd use it a lot more.
I used to have an Ensoniq Mirage years ago until it went kaput.
I found the MASOS system to work detailed samples on the Mirage painful with hexadecimal but the filters and envelopes were great.
It was fun in many ways and trying to use the 64K as efficiently as you could across the keyboard.
Fast forward 20 years
I find the Korg Micro-sampler easy to use for many things but I revel back to the time when I could control the full envelope shape and the timbre of the Mirage.
The Korg Micro Sampler for me filled the void and still does as an easy to work sampling keyboard but I do hope the Prophet X has the features I would like. (Direct Sampling into VCF/VCA's)
Once I have read the specs and it hits my targets then I will be purchasing one also.
I bought Tempest in 2013 new and still own it .
I own a Prophet 08 and Mopho also. (Still own them)
The Tempest has had a checkered history on the forums but my setup it is the main beat controlled by the Engine Sequencer.
So I guess I like the DSI brand.
The tech support is top notch and the instruments well built.
My Tempest had an LED issue some years back and Tech support walked me through and advised me what to do.
Being handy with a soldering iron helped the process!
I have a Vermona perfourmer 2 and sent Vermona a question ...2 years later I am still waiting!
That's why I am more inclined (once reading the specs) that the Prophet X will enter my setup as opposed to the Waldorf Quantum or another brand.
Just my opinion.
For me I'm heavily inspired by the John Carpenter/Alan Howarth stuff and I try to model my set up after their gear but using modern stuff and yet I still haven't been able to find the modern equivalent of the old Emulators or Kurzweil 250 or Prophet 2000 they used. With my current set up, I'm pretty well stocked in regards to my analog sound (Prophet 6, Tempest, Moog Sub 37, with a REV2 and Oberheim Two Voice Pro on the way and possibly an ARP Odyssey later on) so I want to start incorporating those sampler sounds (basses, guitars, pianos, choirs, strings, ethnic sounds etc) and those digital Prophet VS waves into my music as well. The Prophet X hopefully may have just managed to tick both my sampling needs and VS needs.
Escape from New york (Engulfed Cathedral.. love this track.) and the the Thing were fav films for me growing up and I enjoy the the soundtracks now!
John Carpenter was an auteur.
I have the Fog soundtrack in my collection. Very atmospheric!
Yeah I saw Carpenter perform here last year. He's a huge inspiration for me.
Interesting to note Engulfed Cathedral is actually a Debussy cover and it's played by a session musician on an ARP Quadra and Prophet-5 as neither Carpenter or Howarth are classically trained musicians.
And of course Carpenter didn't score The Thing it was actually Ennio Morricone doing his interpretation of Carpenter's style
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Official announcement:
https://www.davesmithinstruments.com/2018/05/prophet-x-samples-plus-synthesis/
Product page:
https://www.davesmithinstruments.com/product/prophet-x/
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There she blows. Thanks for the update.
And the price? Kraft Music has it for $4,000. So the magic line has been crossed. DSI is really going for the higher end of the synthesizer market.
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And the price? Kraft Music has it for $4,000. So the magic line has been crossed. DSI is really going for the higher end of the synthesizer market.
£3,359 here in the UK. Comparable to the Modal 002 and Waldorf Quantum, both at £3,500.
As for the demos, the "Children" video is sending chills down my spine: I'm a sucker for a good choir sound and that one is just beautiful.
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Its nice to see DS^H^H Sequential go for a more adventurous design. And yeah its an expensive machine. Much more feature focused than the Quantum. I like quite a few of the details of this machine including the stereo filter with an optional mono (aka 16 voice) mode. Not to mention the Prophet-12/Pro 2 style display in the center.
Would love to hear what the actual analog filter design is. Wondering if the user samples could eventually be used to emulate user waveshapes like those in the Evolvers and VS. If not it would have been even better with VS style waves not to mention waveshape interpolation on the digital oscillators.
Its not a machine for me but I certainly like the design direction. Will be interesting to see what people think of it once they gain experience with it.
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Strange that user import of samples is not till the end of the year, I guess it is to give space to 8Dio to sell some ridiculously priced instrument packs.
For that price as well I would rather have a Kronos, I'm not an analog filter purist though.
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New Prophet X forum located here:
https://forum.davesmithinstruments.com/index.php/board,38.0.html
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This thread could be moved to the new forum.
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Strange that user import of samples is not till the end of the year, I guess it is to give space to 8Dio to sell some ridiculously priced instrument packs.
Wonder what the official word is on this? Not coded yet? Product management considerations?
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User samples i the future... where did i hear that before :D ...
Listened to the demos... sounds very P12'ish with the synth sounds... The price though... I'm not sure... yet...
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User samples i the future... where did i hear that before :D ...
Well there are two options: either buy now or wait until the user sample feature works.
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User samples i the future... where did i hear that before :D ...
Listened to the demos... sounds very P12'ish with the synth sounds... The price though... I'm not sure... yet...
It doesn't sound like the P12 at all I have to say.
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What does it sound like?
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What does it sound like?
Well, I posted some demos over in the Prophet X forum. First of all, the filters are entirely different. The stereo mode further alters the articulation of timbres. And the whole sample content naturally gives it a massively different flavor, as you have hundreds of sounds that never ever came out of a DSI synth before.
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User samples i the future... where did i hear that before :D ...
Well there are two options: either buy now or wait until the user sample feature works.
I am absolutely thrilled at the news - but given the cost, I'll def be in the "wait and see" camp. For the price I would have hoped for at least 4-part multitimbral and split/layers. Still, the more laptops this thing keeps off stages, the better! :D
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User samples i the future... where did i hear that before :D ...
Well there are two options: either buy now or wait until the user sample feature works.
I am absolutely thrilled at the news - but given the cost, I'll def be in the "wait and see" camp. For the price I would have hoped for at least 4-part multitimbral and split/layers. Still, the more laptops this thing keeps off stages, the better! :D
There are splits and layers.
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User samples i the future... where did i hear that before :D ...
Well there are two options: either buy now or wait until the user sample feature works.
I am absolutely thrilled at the news - but given the cost, I'll def be in the "wait and see" camp. For the price I would have hoped for at least 4-part multitimbral and split/layers. Still, the more laptops this thing keeps off stages, the better! :D
There are splits and layers.
Yes - but just one split point or a layer, right? Much like the other duotimbral DSI boards?
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Yes - but just one split point or a layer, right? Much like the other duotimbral DSI boards?
The Prophet X is bitimbral, yes.
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The filter sounds just like my Prophet '08. Samples sound beautiful. Curse you Dave Smith! How am I going to get the money?!
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User samples i the future... where did i hear that before :D ...
Well there are two options: either buy now or wait until the user sample feature works.
I am absolutely thrilled at the news - but given the cost, I'll def be in the "wait and see" camp. For the price I would have hoped for at least 4-part multitimbral and split/layers. Still, the more laptops this thing keeps off stages, the better! :D
I would have like to somehow have had the ability to sequence each of the oscillators individuals but meh it’s nit picking. I’m sold at this point.
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Strange that user import of samples is not till the end of the year, I guess it is to give space to 8Dio to sell some ridiculously priced instrument packs.
I suspect it's because the system is beyond "take a bunch of linear PCM samples and switch them by key and velocity," and probably way beyond editing this stuff within the keyboard. They probably developed a low-level system to process the packs, but it's not friendly enough for commercial users yet. I release a lot of features this way at work, where Support needs to set them up by hand in the database while my team makes a nice interface for it. That way, users have access to features sooner.
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UK prices round about £3,300 approximately. I'd definitely have to sell my Moog Sub37 to fund this !
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Strange that user import of samples is not till the end of the year, I guess it is to give space to 8Dio to sell some ridiculously priced instrument packs.
I suspect it's because the system is beyond "take a bunch of linear PCM samples and switch them by key and velocity," and probably way beyond editing this stuff within the keyboard. They probably developed a low-level system to process the packs, but it's not friendly enough for commercial users yet. I release a lot of features this way at work, where Support needs to set them up by hand in the database while my team makes a nice interface for it. That way, users have access to features sooner.
I must admit I thought it would be just a simple key/velocity mapped system, I'm definitely interested to see if it isn't!
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Anyone heard if it might support MPE?
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User samples i the future... where did i hear that before :D ...
Listened to the demos... sounds very P12'ish with the synth sounds... The price though... I'm not sure... yet...
It doesn't sound like the P12 at all I have to say.
Well... I do not agree on that one... I'm talking about the synth oscillators, not the sampling ones :) it's hard to describe, but the many demos on Soundcloud that seemed to not focus on the sampling engine sounded P12'ish to me... besides, the interface with the OLED display is exactly the same as on the P12, and we've seen DSI reuse their code on more than one instrument, so it would be the easiest way to just take two P12 voices and throw them in with some bells and whistles like Dave always do... The filters are different yes, but I do not hear anything characterful in any of the demo's on Soundcloud that impress me I'm afraid--- this could be due to the programing of course, and many of them just sound like ROMpler samples with the characeristic speedup and down when playing different keys, which I find funny since the featurelist say it can do time stretching (I now wonder if the time stretching is an off-line processing of samples, or actual realtime timestretching... i certainly hope the later)... actually I found many of those demos harsh soundingly digital... the same way that the digital Girth/Air etc. part of the P12 impart on the sound of it's digital oscillators. an unmistakingly harsh digital grungyness...
I thought hard about if I was to say it... but I just have not heard something yet that makes me go "wow!" ... it sounds to me like a sample player playing through analog Curtis filters even if it's not... not that this is bad, I'm still considering this instrument since I don't mind the Curtis sound, especially on a synth that I would be doing PAD sounds and ambient stuff with... i do not need booming MOOG filters or the like... If it's done right, I'll consider it... but I'd like to see the full spec list (user manual) before taking a decision... also, if I am to get such complicated a synth I'd want a WORKING and FULL FEATURED editor to come with it... we're living in the 21st century, and I have no intention of working this thing from those small screens when programming sounds, so I hope that DSI will at some point start taking editors more serious.
A full fledged editor, with the added ability of editing the sample setup as well would be a minimum requirement... especially at this pricepoint.
Please don't see this as a bashing... it's not... this is a really cool and deep synth with a lot of potential (as far as I know the specs until now)... I'm just not the person who fall into instant hyping just because a well reknowned synth guru push out a new synth... I listen, i read and then I judge on that without thinking about who made it. I like the ideer of this synth, actually I've been begging for this synth from DSI in the past, and they heard the call (thanks for that DSI!)... I think the only thing I do not like is the pricepoint :D ... I hope this thing will get a module as well because that will be my aim... otherwise I would have to get rid of my KB37 and get a modular case instead for my Eurorack stuff, and use the X as masterkeyboard... tempting because of the 5oct keybed, but time will tell.... I do need ONE polysynth, and I could easily see the X as that... so no bashing from me... just honesty about what i hear. :)
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It seems the filters are the new Sound Semiconductor SSI2144:
https://www.kraftmusic.com/sequential-prophet-x (https://www.kraftmusic.com/sequential-prophet-x)
To my ears, at least, the X seems to have a character that's rather different to any previous DSI synth, and I'm guessing those filters are the reason.
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It seems the filters are the new Sound Semiconductor SSI2144:
https://www.kraftmusic.com/sequential-prophet-x (https://www.kraftmusic.com/sequential-prophet-x)
To my ears, at least, the X seems to have a character that's rather different to any previous DSI synth, and I'm guessing those filters are the reason.
Link does not work :)
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Link does not work :)
Looks like the whole of kraftmusic.com is down at the moment.
Edit: It's working now.
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"It's worth pointing out, too, that while 'samples through analog filters' seems to have been the primary design consideration the story certainly doesn't end there, with two digital oscillators per voice seemingly derived from those in Prophet 12 that offer a variety of waveshapes as well as waveshape modulation."
from the artikle at Kraftmusic... so it is a new SSM revision filter chip... but notice that also Kraftmusic is talking about the digital oscillators being from the P12, excactly as I thought because of the way they sounded to me in the demos ;)
But the new SSM2044 like chip is certainly interresting, even though I do not feel I've heard them "in action" yet to be able to hear the character of them... I still feel the sound of the X sounds more like Curtis filters than SSM filters... but as I said; it's probably because of the programming... don't know... I may also be tricked into hearing curtis timbres simply because the digital oscillators has that typical P12 Dave Smith like timbre on top of the filters... fact is I can definitely hear a "Dave Smith Character" in those demos... I've had so many DSI synths by now I'd claim to know the character ;)
Still an interresting machine though... I read that it has the supersaw waveform... that indicates some of the PRO2's waveshape features has been ported to the X... and the PRO2 was derived from the P12 oscillators... so I'm pretty certain by now, that it's just new soup, cooked on old bones when it comes to the digital oscillators.
If I'd have the abillity to make ONE change to what I know of this synth by now, it would have been the abillity to CHOOSE either sample or synth engine on the four oscillators for more flexibillity... would have been nice to be able to decide to utilize 4 synth oscillators or 4 sample oscillators in a patch... but that would probably be too much of a contender to their P12 ;)
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Personally I would have totally skipped on the Oscillators all together and had two more spots for instruments. I don't see myself ever using them at all. I already have analog gear with sawtooth, triangle, square waves etc oscillators I don't need a virtual analog oscillator to accompany them.
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Personally I would have totally skipped on the Oscillators all together and had two more spots for instruments. I don't see myself ever using them at all. I already have analog gear with sawtooth, triangle, square waves etc oscillators I don't need a virtual analog oscillator to accompany them.
Samples are a whole lot less tweakable in realtime than synth oscillators, so if the aim was to make this synth catch a lot of sonic territory, then those oscillators is crucial... but I can see the need for four instruments too... that's why i wrote that it would have been nice to select the type of oscillator for each of the four "oscillators"... because i can certainly see a lot of potential for the mix as it is now too... the synth also appeal to more people this way.
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Personally I would have totally skipped on the Oscillators all together and had two more spots for instruments. I don't see myself ever using them at all. I already have analog gear with sawtooth, triangle, square waves etc oscillators I don't need a virtual analog oscillator to accompany them.
Samples are a whole lot less tweakable in realtime than synth oscillators, so if the aim was to make this synth catch a lot of sonic territory, then those oscillators is crucial... but I can see the need for four instruments too... that's why i wrote that it would have been nice to select the type of oscillator for each of the four "oscillators"... because i can certainly see a lot of potential for the mix as it is now too... the synth also appeal to more people this way.
That's true, I wish the VS waves were in the oscillator section instead of the sample section but apparently you can manipulate them and use them as oscillators (I guess similar to the Tempest engine) and with the two touch strips on the side, maybe a bit of simulated vector manipulation?
That being said though Raz, maybe samples are actually a lot more tweakable in realtime with this engine. It's still too early to tell but with a more in depth walk through maybe it holds a lot of surprises.
I see a lot of people complaining about the price...but I do wonder perhaps sampling really is an expensive endeavor? A lot of people don't realize that Fairlights were $25,000 and Synclaviers were $100,000. I don't think Dave or Waldorf deliberately set out to make $4k synths but at the end of the day they ended up costing what they did. There must be a reason for it, maybe the processing power or storage of the samples, I don't know. As far as alternatives...well no other synth company now is doing lower priced Emulators or Ensoniq type synths...hell almost no one is doing samplers at all! So until Behringer wants to make an Ensoniq Mirage clone or Emulator clone for $1000...this is it.
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I see a lot of people complaining about the price...but I do wonder perhaps sampling really is an expensive endeavor? A lot of people don't realize that Fairlights were $25,000 and Synclaviers were $100,000. I don't think Dave or Waldorf deliberately set out to make $4k synths but at the end of the day they ended up costing what they did. There must be a reason for it, maybe the processing power or storage of the samples, I don't know. As far as alternatives...well no other synth company now is doing lower priced Emulators or Ensoniq type synths...hell almost no one is doing samplers at all! So until Behringer wants to make an Ensoniq Mirage clone or Emulator clone for $1000...this is it.
Back when the Fairlight and Synclavier came out memory was expensive, and sampling needs plenty of it. Nobody is bothering to build hardware samplers now because general purpose computers have exceeded the capabilities of the old hardware to a massive degree, so you just need software. Case in point: you can get a Fairlight emulation (the full thing) for the iPad for £49.
DSI are offering something different: a synthesizer where some of the oscillators are sample based. Not my personal cup of tea because I have a preference for pure synthesis, whether it be subtractive, FM or additive. That said, I do find some of the Prophet X demos very appealing. :)
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I see a lot of people complaining about the price...but I do wonder perhaps sampling really is an expensive endeavor? A lot of people don't realize that Fairlights were $25,000 and Synclaviers were $100,000. I don't think Dave or Waldorf deliberately set out to make $4k synths but at the end of the day they ended up costing what they did. There must be a reason for it, maybe the processing power or storage of the samples, I don't know. As far as alternatives...well no other synth company now is doing lower priced Emulators or Ensoniq type synths...hell almost no one is doing samplers at all! So until Behringer wants to make an Ensoniq Mirage clone or Emulator clone for $1000...this is it.
Back when the Fairlight and Synclavier came out memory was expensive, and sampling needs plenty of it. Nobody is bothering to build hardware samplers now because general purpose computers have exceeded the capabilities of the old hardware to a massive degree, so you just need software. Case in point: you can get a Fairlight emulation (the full thing) for the iPad for £49.
DSI are offering something different: a synthesizer where some of the oscillators are sample based. Not my personal cup of tea because I have a preference for pure synthesis, whether it be subtractive, FM or additive. That said, I do find some of the Prophet X demos very appealing. :)
This is true. I have the Fairlight App. I was thinking of incorporating some of the sounds to my music.
I think what the Prophet X is doing is taking the ideas of using samples AS oscillators and as such you can do subtractive, FM or addative synthesis but using the sound of a piano or vocal as a foundation which none of the old samplers offered.
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I think what the Prophet X is doing is taking the ideas of using samples AS oscillators and as such you can do subtractive, FM or addative synthesis but using the sound of a piano or vocal as a foundation which none of the old samplers offered.
Some of the older E-Mu samplers did incorporate analog filters and, rather amusingly, they used the SSM 2044 chip, so you could see the Prophet X as a sort of logical successor to them. :D Plus the Yamaha SY77/SY99/TG77 had the ability to use samples as modulators within FM algorithms.
So nothing particularly new here, just what you'd expect from DSI: a really nice implementation that makes the whole thing interactive and approachable.
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I think what the Prophet X is doing is taking the ideas of using samples AS oscillators and as such you can do subtractive, FM or addative synthesis but using the sound of a piano or vocal as a foundation which none of the old samplers offered.
Some of the older E-Mu samplers did incorporate analog filters and, rather amusingly, they used the SSM 2044 chip, so you could see the Prophet X as a sort of logical successor to them. :D Plus the Yamaha SY77/SY99/TG77 had the ability to use samples as modulators within FM algorithms.
So nothing particularly new here, just what you'd expect from DSI: a really nice implementation that makes the whole thing interactive and approachable.
Well while the Emulators had analog filters and amplifers they still didn't allow samples to be as heavily manipulated so easily but like you said DSI simply too the concept and made it interactive and approachable.
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A few short answers to things I've seen mentioned:
User samples will 100% be in the instrument. This is not like the Tempest where I was clear we were trying as hard as we could but no promises. User samples are already basically working on the synth but we have a lot of other things to get working before implementing, like an easy way for you to make the multi-sample files and import them into the machine. This is easy for our add-on packs because we know how to do it manually, but we want to make it easy for you guys. It will be worth the wait
Slop as a mod source is a slow slewed randomization. Think an LFO that randomly changes period length
The new filter is amazing, the low end sounds particularly good which I think was lacking on our older filter designs. Of course it's all subjective
You can do audio rate modulation of the samples and oscillators to any of our mod destinations. This gets some next level results when you experiment
The sample instruments have 3 different loop modes... pitched, sync'd and normal. Pitched keeps the loop size consistent with a particular note value so it sounds pitched. Sync locks to the tempo. Normal has more granularity. All of them can be modulated
I think technically the hard drive could be replaced by a larger one but it isn't as simple as just formatting it on your PC/OSX computer. This is something I'll revisit after things are released to see what our options are
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A few short answers to things I've seen mentioned:
User samples will 100% be in the instrument. This is not like the Tempest where I was clear we were trying as hard as we could but no promises. User samples are already basically working on the synth but we have a lot of other things to get working before implementing, like an easy way for you to make the multi-sample files and import them into the machine. This is easy for our add-on packs because we know how to do it manually, but we want to make it easy for you guys. It will be worth the wait
Slop as a mod source is a slow slewed randomization. Think an LFO that randomly changes period length
The new filter is amazing, the low end sounds particularly good which I think was lacking on our older filter designs. Of course it's all subjective
You can do audio rate modulation of the samples and oscillators to any of our mod destinations. This gets some next level results when you experiment
The sample instruments have 3 different loop modes... pitched, sync'd and normal. Pitched keeps the loop size consistent with a particular note value so it sounds pitched. Sync locks to the tempo. Normal has more granularity. All of them can be modulated
I think technically the hard drive could be replaced by a larger one but it isn't as simple as just formatting it on your PC/OSX computer. This is something I'll revisit after things are released to see what our options are
Wonderful news!! Do you have a limit to the length of sample at all? Looking on the front layout, is there a way to change the pitch of the samples at all?
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...
You can do audio rate modulation of the samples and oscillators to any of our mod destinations. This gets some next level results when you experiment
...
Hi,
That sounds pretty good, is it just frequency on the samples that can be modulated at this rate and what is the exact rate?
Thanks
Andy
Edit: Just read what you posted a bit more closely, I guess the correct question is what parameters on the sample oscillators are mod destinations?
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In the Sonic State Video there is mention of multisampling...would it be possible to essentially create a custom multisample where it has various samples that are split across the keyboard? For instance the first key be a timpani Drum, then the second octave be a bass and then a VS Piano on the next octave and then a string sample on the higher octave? Not with the front layout on the synth but from an external editor or user sample? This I firmly believe would take this thing to the moon and back as essentially you could have a drum sequence on one layer, then a bass sequence on the other (recorded on the lower octave) and then the rest of the keys to play piano or whatever.
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I believe that will happen based on what they've advertised and reassured.
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I've read:
- you will be able to have it so playing successive notes on keyboard changes pitch, or not.
- 1.5GB max for sound loaded in RAM per instrument. Times 2 in one layer. Times 2 layers (split/stack)
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So essentially it will be multitimbral as you will be able to have more than one sound on a single multisample under a single Instrument? Like every key being a different sample?
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I don't know if this has been mentioned previously as it has been some time since I participated in this thread, but what about the Time Stretch function of this engine? ... is it off-line, or is it a realtime timestretch function?
I'm asking because this is what could potentially do the difference to me wanting this samplesynth... Timestretching makes samples so much more useful because you can get around that typical ROMpler type of sound, especially as loops with rhythmic content can be pitch shifted without the tempo changing as well.
Another thing is that I'm really interested in hearing this time stretching algorithm in action, in a more technical way... how does it sound when stretching? ... how does it work? are there different algorithms for different sample material?
... and also... now that i read it has audio rate modulation of the samples, I think that the link to the P12 code has been cemented... this sounds more and more like a heavily modified P12 engine :D being yet another telltale sign on why I heard a "p12" when hearing the demos because the audio rate modulation also have a very certain sound to it that I remember clearly from the P12 when I had it...
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Fitting for this speculation thread, here's my summary of reasonably supported heresay. I think most of the stuff I included here are facts. Especially the parts preceded by "I think....". This is my completely unverified grasp of what the Prophet X is. It’s review for most of the regulars here. Please correct misconceptions or errors. (I have yet to see any videos other than Dave's official introduction. And I have never played it nor seen it demonstrated.)
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NOT YOUR POPPA's MULTISAMPLER
It is not like the user multisampling equipped keyboards from Korg, Kurzweil, Yamaha & Roland. It's got some similarities & differences to the different sampling in Nord.
NOT A SAMPLER
It's not a sampler in that it doesn't sample, and doesn't have direct file-level view or editing of a sample. Has USB port for sample import. On the keyboard, you can load a keymap, but I believe you can't see or edit a sample directly.
SAMPLE SYNTH?
Thinking of it as a "sample synth" makes sense to me. As we know, it has wonderful real-time Sample Controls in that section. Plus, these are in the 16x2 mod-matrix.
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SAMPLE STRUCTURE
Sample->Keymap->instrument->Layer->Program->Enlightenment
Structure as I understand it:
1 Program can have 2 layers. Split or Stack.
1 layer has 2 oscillators & 2 instruments.
1 instrument loads one "keymap".
Eventually a user will be able to create a keymap on a computer, and load it into the Prophet X.
1 keymap can contain from
- 1 sample, on one key, one velocity level .... to
- Tons of samples, mapped to lots of keys, and lots of velocity levels
A keymap is loaded into RAM. Max per instrument is 1.5GB RAM. Therefore, max keymaps loaded at one time is 6GB. 2 instruments X 2 layers.
Switching programs that have different keymaps loaded into the instrument slots is quick, though not instantaneous. What hasn't been demonstrated is how long it would take to load a Program that has instrument slots filled to their max RAM capacity. I.e., how long does it take to load 6GB of new keymaps into RAM. I have the suspicion it's at an acceptable modern rate. (But, no seamless transition. Not a traditional modern multisample player.)
SAMPLES, ENCASED AS INSTRUMENTS, FOR SYNTHESIS
Key point: The interaction between the samples and synthesis is via the "instrument". Think of instrument as a DSI oscillator. Instrument could be one sample, on one key, one velocity level short or the other multisample, multi-vel-level extreme. And, there are instrument-specific actions that are characteristically useful in manipulating samples. (see Sampler Player controls and related source-destinations.)
REAL-TIME SAMPLE CONTROL
The sample control knobs are the most interesting "drive" controls for the sample side. They include knobs for sample start & stop, loop size and center and buttons for loop on and reverse. Again, these are represented in the mod matrix. It's this classic DSI, heart-of-the matter & synthesis-integrated approach that's an enticing approach to sample playing. (And it's got the two strips on the left.)
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ROMPLER TODAY, USB-SLOT LOADED USER-MULTISAMPLER SYNTH DECEMBER
As of now, 150GB is reserved for 8DIO library- feeling similar to Read Only Memory sounds. 50GB are reserved for user sampling. There will be more 8DIO libraries available. DSI is aiming for user sampling to become available in December, accompanied by a program to make the keymaps. There are hi-fi, high quality, character multisamples that can sometimes be 10 velocity levels deep. (Intelligent move allowing to leap frog into this game- with its own terms.)
[A week ago- that paragraph in a DSI product wasn't a thing- for most, except a privileged few. We had one here give us enough info to maintain post-teaser, pre-cat-bag sanity.]
SYNTH SIDE
And those multisampling sounds are integrated with the 2 digital oscillator (times 2 layers) synth. Supersaw here. (As in Pro 2, & not 12).
DEEP SYNTH COMPARISONS
The synth side in isolation is a little simpler than the Prophet 12. 2 osc, not 4. Also missing from Prophet 12 are/ L-R wave morphing, character, delay lines, & linear FM. But, there is *plenty* new-to-DSI (& generally exciting) synthesis to be explored because of the integration and interaction between the oscillators and instruments. (That's an understatement; and that is the mystery & intrigue that I imagine has sound hunters revved.) Remember, an instrument is a keymap, and a keymap could be a single sample or it could be a 10-velocity level multisample. The only limit I've seen mentioned is the 1.5GB max loaded per instrument. (Surely, there's got to be a velocity level limit, right? Or, a total sample count limit per playable instrument.)
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POLYPHONY
Max polyphony is 8 stereo or 16 mono. A stacked Program can have 4 stereo voices, or 8 mono voices. (Not traditional multisample player.) In stereo, a new 24db filter is hardwired L, and another one right. Per stereo voice. A button allows to shift to 16 mono, off of 8 stereo. That's a good idea. Start in one mode, and shift as desired or needed based on the whim of your idea.
EFFECTS
There are 2 effects per layer. (4 total). And, different from Rev2, an additional parameter knob- totaling 3- per effect. (All of which are we represented in mod matrix.) I read that if FX are off, signal is all analog VCF forward. (As in Rev2.)
FILTER
Talk of filter sounding good. It's 24db only. But has a filter drive knob. (Circuit, not discrete, new for DSI.) PEK folk here know real well at what true stereo filter separation means. There's HPF as an effect. On the Rev2 I've found this to be good, with surprisingly no perceptible latency on a one-time check for it.
The instrument (sample) can be variably routed separately from the filter, and it has something like a "tone control".
OTHER DSI COMPARISONS
- 16x2 mod matrix, like the 12, whereas the Rev2 has 8x2.
- Has the polyphonic sequencer of the latest 3 analog synths. Rev2 also has gated "parameter" sequencer.
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WRAP UP
It's absolutely a gas to see on the DSI site, to have an offering that reads: "Great for traditional instruments such as ...." That's new.
Obviously I'm fascinated. I'm not in need. I'll be checking in.
X IS FOR PROPHET
- essential realtime crossfade parameter. This is so important, maybe this is the namesake
- Junction of two worlds: Sampling & Synthesis
- Attitude, supported by the black wood side panels. Nice touch.
- Godzilla vs Monster (?), courtesy of LoboLives
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Interesting stuff, are you sure there is only one velocity layer?
Also all samples loaded into RAM rather than streamed?
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I'm not sure of any of it. What I believe is ...
A keymap is assigned & loaded to an instrument slot.
And an 8DIO factory library keymap can consist of many velocity levels.
As few as one (as in possibly the VS wave keymap.) And at least as many as 10 (as that was announced for one sound in the official intro video and I believe some 8DIO copy.)
I assume grossly that a user keymap would have comparable specs.
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Re: sample loading question ...
I believe in this forum a DSI spokesman wrote that an instrument can load a max of 1.5 GB samples into an instrument slot, so they can allow to buffer this times 4, due to the RAM limit.
(Nothing I write is official nor verified. I'm just trying to quickly get a sense of this wonderful instrument.)
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Thanks for the info, I guess we will have to wait and see. It will be a shame if they haven't implemented streaming though.
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As always with these complex instruments, teasing out precisely what they can do and their detailed spec is not straight forward. As the long time owner of a Kurzweil Forte and as an engineer I understand not only the complexity but the necessary compromises. Once you start demanding multi gigabyte samples, things get tough. Firstly the sheer size of data to move is enormous, addressing it directly requires 64bit address buses and the processing to go with it. As we all know Flash Rom can be cheap but it's not fast. Ram and fast N-type Flash are expensive. There are basically two tech solutions - 1, use a solid state disk (like Korg with the Kronos) or 2, fudge cheap Flash (like the Kurzweil Forte) both have draw backs. Nord's solution is to shy away, this is quite understandable. Roland and Yamaha are in a similar position to Nord but have invested more heavily in 'modelling' eg the ghastly Vpiano!
Looks like DSI have chosen the Korg Kronos route.. Solid state disk and ram. This is quite a good compromise once you've got the sample data loaded into ram.. But it will make boot up slow for big sample instruments. The benefits will be the speed of the key-to-sound response, fast ram based play back is always going to be better than the latency you get with Kurzweil's solution.
Kurz's solution gives you multi gigabyte samples - 16gb of which 3.3gb are user loadable all of which is immediately accessible, this is certainly enough to do most things I ever need, in comparison DSI's 150gb x4 of ram is brilliant! The thing with the Kurz though is all samples are immediately accessible once booted. So what this suggests to me is that in reality once you've loaded your sample selection into the Px ram, you're good to go for most things you'll ever need!
Also be warned.. Loading gigabyte samples via USB takes literally hours.. The PX will need USB 3 with the potential data sizes involved.
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Some more thinking:- I'm intrigued to know what the internal architecture of the PX is. First thoughts are that its inherited the P12's multi Shark DSP approach. I think the P12 has 6 Shark DSP chips, each one provides two voices. Whereas this approach makes good sense for high quality oscillator simulation, it does start to unravel once you add gigabytes of 'common' sample data that needs to be shared across all 16 voices. Basically what this would mean is a massive common address/data bus that is doing DMA (direct memory access) on acid! But funnily enough that's exactly how ( albeit on a 1980’s - 6809 scale!) the original P2000/2002 worked back in the 80’s. Ok SCI used custom LSI to clock the sample data out for each voice, no DSP back then. I had both the P2000 and P2002, great they sounded too with their Curtis filters, even if the LSI chips were flawed and couldn't run at their designed frequency. But anyway.. If DSI has gone the route of reuse and is using a beefed up P12 architecture, then it'll be a very different beast from the Kronos. Even before we get to the analogue filters.
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User samples i the future... where did i hear that before :D ...
Well there are two options: either buy now or wait until the user sample feature works.
I am absolutely thrilled at the news - but given the cost, I'll def be in the "wait and see" camp. For the price I would have hoped for at least 4-part multitimbral and split/layers. Still, the more laptops this thing keeps off stages, the better! :D
I have the exact same idea, I'm still fighting to NOT have any computer on stage and this might be just the answer....
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The filter sounds just like my Prophet '08. Samples sound beautiful. Curse you Dave Smith! How am I going to get the money?!
Same question for me!!!! I'm still paying my financing on my Prophet 12 that I bought last year....Used...It was not planned but the deal was n the store was a "too good to pass on"....Well, the OB6 module might come before this one....
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... Ram and fast N-type Flash are expensive. There are basically two tech solutions - 1, use a solid state disk (like Korg with the Kronos) or 2, fudge cheap Flash (like the Kurzweil Forte) both have draw backs.
Looks like DSI have chosen the Korg Kronos route.. Solid state disk and ram. This is quite a good compromise once you've got the sample data loaded into ram.. But it will make boot up slow for big sample instruments.
The benefits will be the speed of the key-to-sound response, fast ram based play back is always going to be better than the latency you get with Kurzweil's solution.
Kurz's solution gives you multi gigabyte samples - 16gb of which 3.3gb are user loadable all of which is immediately accessible, this is certainly enough to do most things I ever need, in comparison DSI's 150gb x4 of ram is brilliant! The thing with the Kurz though is all samples are immediately accessible once booted.
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Interesting thoughts!
Can you expand on your thoughts of the Forte? Specifically, how has Kurzweil fudged cheap flash? Can you perceive 'key press-to-sound latency' on it?
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I had a chat with Dave about the Prophet X for a special episode of „Nodes & Wires“: https://youtu.be/13qRhwx6zFI
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Very informative, Paul. Thanks.
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I had a chat with Dave about the Prophet X for a special episode of „Nodes & Wires“: https://youtu.be/13qRhwx6zFI
I watched this this afternoon. My client hasn't provided user stories, so my scrum meeting status was, "I'm watching synthesizer videos on YouTube. No roadblocks." They'll either fire me or take the hint.
Anyway... thanks for doing this! It's always interesting to hear what Dave has to say. For me the part on multi-trimbality was thought-provoking because--having paid attention to DSI for eight years--I've sort of internalized the idea that multi-timbrality was an obsolete concept, or at least anachronistic.
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I watched this this afternoon. My client hasn't provided user stories, so my scrum meeting status was, "I'm watching synthesizer videos on YouTube. No roadblocks." They'll either fire me or take the hint.
It pays to be agile, lol.
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I watched this this afternoon. My client hasn't provided user stories, so my scrum meeting status was, "I'm watching synthesizer videos on YouTube. No roadblocks." They'll either fire me or take the hint.
Haha! - Thanks for watching.
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I wonder if the sequencer is the same as the Prophet REV2. I actually had no idea that sequencer had different tracks per sequence.
If that’s the case then once user defined multisamples start coming up, does that mean one could do a drum track, a bass track, string track under a single sequence?
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I wonder if the sequencer is the same as the Prophet REV2. I actually had no idea that sequencer had different tracks per sequence.
The sequencer is the same poly sequencer as to be found in the Rev2, i.e. you can record up to 64 steps with up to 6 notes per step including rests and ties. This is not to be confused with the gated sequencer of the Rev2, which is mainly for modulation purposes.
If that’s the case then once user defined multisamples start coming up, does that mean one could do a drum track, a bass track, string track under a single sequence?
No. With the poly sequencer you can record one individual track per layer. Since the PX is bitimbral, this means that you can record up to two different sequences or tracks per stacked or split program. You could, however, record a full drum track per sequence and layer. All you need for that is a multi-sampled drum kit spread across the keyboard (for example with the bass drum on C, snare on D, hi-hat on G, etc.). The PX will contain a couple of drum kits already when shipped.
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I wonder if the sequencer is the same as the Prophet REV2. I actually had no idea that sequencer had different tracks per sequence.
The sequencer is the same poly sequencer as to be found in the Rev2, i.e. you can record up to 64 steps with up to 6 notes per step including rests and ties. This is not to be confused with the gated sequencer of the Rev2, which is mainly for modulation purposes.
If that’s the case then once user defined multisamples start coming up, does that mean one could do a drum track, a bass track, string track under a single sequence?
No. With the poly sequencer you can record one individual track per layer. Since the PX is bitimbral, this means that you can record up to two different sequences or tracks per stacked or split program. You could, however, record a full drum track per sequence and layer. All you need for that is a multi-sampled drum kit spread across the keyboard (for example with the bass drum on C, snare on D, hi-hat on G, etc.). The PX will contain a couple of drum kits already when shipped.
Go to 12:04....he says there's 6 tracks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4r8Zwy40a4
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I wonder if the sequencer is the same as the Prophet REV2. I actually had no idea that sequencer had different tracks per sequence.
The sequencer is the same poly sequencer as to be found in the Rev2, i.e. you can record up to 64 steps with up to 6 notes per step including rests and ties. This is not to be confused with the gated sequencer of the Rev2, which is mainly for modulation purposes.
If that’s the case then once user defined multisamples start coming up, does that mean one could do a drum track, a bass track, string track under a single sequence?
No. With the poly sequencer you can record one individual track per layer. Since the PX is bitimbral, this means that you can record up to two different sequences or tracks per stacked or split program. You could, however, record a full drum track per sequence and layer. All you need for that is a multi-sampled drum kit spread across the keyboard (for example with the bass drum on C, snare on D, hi-hat on G, etc.). The PX will contain a couple of drum kits already when shipped.
Go to 12:04....he says there's 6 tracks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4r8Zwy40a4
Well, then I assume the translation is off. It should say 6 notes, not tracks. The poly sequencer has only one track that allows you to record up to 6 notes per step. The gated sequencer of the Rev2 on the other side allows you to record 4 tracks. The poly sequencer of the PX is exactly the same as the one in the Prophet-6, OB-6, and Rev2.
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The sequencer in the PX is identical to the poly sequencer in the P6/OB-6/Rev2 in terms of functionality. There is more editing capability due to the large central display. A "track" is simply a note--the specific lingo in the UI is "Chord Note". You can have up to 6 Chord notes per step.
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I wonder if the sequencer is the same as the Prophet REV2. I actually had no idea that sequencer had different tracks per sequence.
The sequencer is the same poly sequencer as to be found in the Rev2, i.e. you can record up to 64 steps with up to 6 notes per step including rests and ties. This is not to be confused with the gated sequencer of the Rev2, which is mainly for modulation purposes.
If that’s the case then once user defined multisamples start coming up, does that mean one could do a drum track, a bass track, string track under a single sequence?
No. With the poly sequencer you can record one individual track per layer. Since the PX is bitimbral, this means that you can record up to two different sequences or tracks per stacked or split program. You could, however, record a full drum track per sequence and layer. All you need for that is a multi-sampled drum kit spread across the keyboard (for example with the bass drum on C, snare on D, hi-hat on G, etc.). The PX will contain a couple of drum kits already when shipped.
Go to 12:04....he says there's 6 tracks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4r8Zwy40a4
Well, then I assume the translation is off. It should say 6 notes, not tracks. The poly sequencer has only one track that allows you to record up to 6 notes per step. The gated sequencer of the Rev2 on the other side allows you to record 4 tracks. The poly sequencer of the PX is exactly the same as the one in the Prophet-6, OB-6, and Rev2.
So strange cause you clearly see in the video him scrolling through “Tracks” and it’s still on Poly Sequence Mode.
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The OS changes quite frequently prior to release, including elements of the UI getting tweaked. Take my word for it, I'm sitting about a foot away from a PX at this very moment.
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The OS changes quite frequently prior to release, including elements of the UI getting tweaked. Take my word for it, I'm sitting about a foot away from a PX at this very moment.
No I believe you. I guess the video got my hopes up in a sense.
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The OS changes quite frequently prior to release, including elements of the UI getting tweaked. Take my word for it, I'm sitting about a foot away from a PX at this very moment.
#cooljobs
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I'm at Moogfest and played with a production quality prototype all morning. It had a suspend pedal on it and pianos sound lovely. Lots of crazy sounds indeed. Controls are very intuitive. It's very fun to play.
I wish they'd add a Voyager style control strip across the whole area above the keybed and I'd love a 76 note version for the samples, but it's awesome as it is.
I am extremely happy to have traded a Nord Stage 3 88 for this beast.
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Did they have anything further to say about a delivery schedule? "Early June" should be coming up fast, but somehow the days seem to crawl by at a fraction of their usual pace.
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That’s still the word. The hardware appears to be ready before the manual... Ha!
Gerry did say that they understood the desire for a user upgradable drive. It ships with a 250GB SSD, I think. User loadable samples due in December. I have been given a download code already.
I ordered from 8Dio directly.
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It was tempting to go directly through 8Dio, but I stuck with Sweetwater for warranty and return policy reasons. Hopefully that doesn't mean much, if any, delay from the original launch. They didn't have the pre-order list set up when I called, and confirmed that I'll be in the very first batch to go out from them.
... and yes, I got the same impression regarding the manual. I offered to help proof-read early drafts but they don't seem to have taken the bait. All I can say is Waldorf could have used someone with a reasonable grasp of both the technology and the English language to go over the manual before release.
Favorite phrases include the description of Spectrum Skew which reads "Determines the level of the partials in relation to themselves", a statement regarding the Oscillator Mixer that makes the unqualified statement "The LED below the dial doesn’t light up", the delightfully vague note "Due to the fact that the Quantum offers eight analog filter voices the maximum polyphony is about eight voices", and perhaps my favorite: "The graphic display of the waveform may give an idea of what exactly is happening. Otherwise the result is far from accurate."
Even at v3 the Kurzweil Forte manual still has a handful of curious statements that could have used an editorial pass. Having not owned a DSI product before, what kind of shape are the manuals usually in?
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As a software engineer, I'd say adequate. Dave wants you to play with it and not obsess over features. Their support is awesome.
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The only manual I have is the Prophet '08 manual, and it's relatively sparse, but well written. As an example of the sparseness, it assumes you are familiar with subtractive synthesis then gives an explanation for each control. The explanations are very concise but provide just the amount of information you need to use the controls effectively. It's more of a reference than a tutorial or user guide.
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It was tempting to go directly through 8Dio, but I stuck with Sweetwater for warranty and return policy reasons. Hopefully that doesn't mean much, if any, delay from the original launch. They didn't have the pre-order list set up when I called, and confirmed that I'll be in the very first batch to go out from them.
... and yes, I got the same impression regarding the manual. I offered to help proof-read early drafts but they don't seem to have taken the bait. All I can say is Waldorf could have used someone with a reasonable grasp of both the technology and the English language to go over the manual before release.
Favorite phrases include the description of Spectrum Skew which reads "Determines the level of the partials in relation to themselves", a statement regarding the Oscillator Mixer that makes the unqualified statement "The LED below the dial doesn’t light up", the delightfully vague note "Due to the fact that the Quantum offers eight analog filter voices the maximum polyphony is about eight voices", and perhaps my favorite: "The graphic display of the waveform may give an idea of what exactly is happening. Otherwise the result is far from accurate."
Even at v3 the Kurzweil Forte manual still has a handful of curious statements that could have used an editorial pass. Having not owned a DSI product before, what kind of shape are the manuals usually in?
Insanely friendly and easy to follow. I actually leaned more about synthesis and my Prophet 6 (which doesn’t have a menu) in a day than I did from my Sub 37 and its manual for a few months.
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The Moog manuals were written by engineers. Dave wants you to twist knobs and push buttons. Same thing.
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I'm hoping for MPE mode, if not, then after the release?
Please Please Please.
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I'm hoping for MPE mode, if not, then after the release?
Please Please Please.
Dave spoke about this in his interview with Paul Dither. Although the keyboard of the Prophet X does respond to pressure it doesn't send out MPE. However, Dave said it is something that are considering working on because the market seems to be missing a MPE type controller built with an internal synth engine. The issue is traditional synth action keys might prove problematic for MPE. The keys would need to be something like a McMillian K-Board 4 or even a ribbon controller for slides above Prophet T8/CS-80 Piano action keys which would take a lot of synth players to get used to. I personally would like it, it would certainly be unique in today's synth market.
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It was tempting to go directly through 8Dio, but I stuck with Sweetwater for warranty and return policy reasons. Hopefully that doesn't mean much, if any, delay from the original launch. They didn't have the pre-order list set up when I called, and confirmed that I'll be in the very first batch to go out from them.
... and yes, I got the same impression regarding the manual. I offered to help proof-read early drafts but they don't seem to have taken the bait. All I can say is Waldorf could have used someone with a reasonable grasp of both the technology and the English language to go over the manual before release.
Favorite phrases include the description of Spectrum Skew which reads "Determines the level of the partials in relation to themselves", a statement regarding the Oscillator Mixer that makes the unqualified statement "The LED below the dial doesn’t light up", the delightfully vague note "Due to the fact that the Quantum offers eight analog filter voices the maximum polyphony is about eight voices", and perhaps my favorite: "The graphic display of the waveform may give an idea of what exactly is happening. Otherwise the result is far from accurate."
Even at v3 the Kurzweil Forte manual still has a handful of curious statements that could have used an editorial pass. Having not owned a DSI product before, what kind of shape are the manuals usually in?
In general, the manuals are pretty well crafted, with the only caveat being the need to download the original manual plus all subsequent addenda in order to fully describe the operation of the synth.
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It doesn’t have MPE nor does it have polyphonic aftertouch, only channel.
I came away from MoogFest determined to explore alternative controllers. I have my sight on the Linnstrument and on the Madrona Labs SoundPlane and everyone should check out the Marimba Lumina, one of the last things designed by Don Buchla with Joel Davel. It’s a giant MIDI controller in marimba configuration with extra pads and strips above the marimba keys for performance control. It has an 80 character display and an onboard synthesizer in addition to being a complete MIDI controller. Each of the four mallets is individually recognized and the board is splitable.
So were DSI to do something in the MPE space, I’d be very interested as well. And if they’re really considering a 76 note version of the Prophet X, I also hope they’ll consider adding a Voyager XL style touch strip above the main keyboard. That should be relatively simple to do and cheap enough. I love the two new touch strips. More touch controls, please.
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I understand now that it would be a problem to have MPE on the keyboard but as for connecting an external device such as a Linnstrument, I don't see how this would be complimented to implement. Surely there will be firmware updates. I own a Linnstrument and the samples on this machine could be ideal for it if only it had MPE mode. Still quite nice without it though I imagine, especially with a Touche controller.
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Maybe we’ll all be pleasantly surprised when the manual comes out. MPE’s coming and Dave must be thinking about it.
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It doesn’t have MPE nor does it have polyphonic aftertouch, only channel.
The Prophet X doesn't have Poly AT built into the keybed, but it does respond to Poly AT via MIDI. In fact, all of our polyphonic synths respond to Poly AT via MIDI.
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Something like this might work if it was built into a synthesizer.
https://img.audiofanzine.com/images/u/product/normal/keith-mcmillen-instruments-k-board-pro-4-244813.png
But I am still attracted to the idea of an analog synth engine with piano action keys like the Prophet T8 or CS-80.
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I grew up on a CS80 and then an Ensoniq SD-1 and finally a TS 10. I would love to see another synth with poly aftertouch. It's just so much more expressive and adds "realism". I'm going to trade my Montage in for the X...maybe they'll release a poly retrofit for it...
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I grew up on a CS80 and then an Ensoniq SD-1 and finally a TS 10. I would love to see another synth with poly aftertouch. It's just so much more expressive and adds "realism". I'm going to trade my Montage in for the X...maybe they'll release a poly retrofit for it...
You could use an external controller as all of DSI's gear supports MPE from an external device. It's more or less the keybed itself being MPE that's the issue.
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The TS-10 works in the studio(where it stays because it's not totally reliable for the stage) for everything as far as transmitting Poly AT. Most of my synths respond to it. I just miss using a live keyboard with Poly.
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You could use an external controller as all of DSI's gear supports MPE from an external device. It's more or less the keybed itself being MPE that's the issue.
Just to clarify, all our poly stuff supports Poly AT over MIDI, not MPE.
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The real problem is finding a manufacturer who still makes and supports a poly AT controller. Fatar doesn’t even offer it as an option anymore AFAIK, and doubtless that simply reflects a lack of demand from manufacturers. Sniff.
Just to clarify, all our poly stuff supports Poly AT over MIDI, not MPE.
Here’s hoping an additional qualifier gets added to this statement in the not-too-distant future. I’d love to see MPE support added to the Prophet X, and failing that, some future DSI gear.
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The real problem is finding a manufacturer who still makes and supports a poly AT controller. Fatar doesn’t even offer it as an option anymore AFAIK, and doubtless that simply reflects a lack of demand from manufacturers. Sniff.
You are correct that there are no OEM keybeds on the market that offer Poly AT. Fatar have been asked about this before, rest assured. A company of our size is not going to tip the boat on this one.
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The real problem is finding a manufacturer who still makes and supports a poly AT controller. Fatar doesn’t even offer it as an option anymore AFAIK, and doubtless that simply reflects a lack of demand from manufacturers. Sniff.
You are correct that there are no OEM keybeds on the market that offer Poly AT. Fatar have been asked about this before, rest assured. A company of our size is not going to tip the boat on this one.
What about the Synton guys?
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Hey Folks
Do we already know if the PX will have a chord mode like the P6 or the OB6?
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Hey Folks
Do we already know if the PX will have a chord mode like the P6 or the OB6?
There is Unison Chord Mode, yes.
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Hey Folks
Do we already know if the PX will have a chord mode like the P6 or the OB6?
There is Unison Chord Mode, yes.
- Unison (monophonic) mode with configurable voice count
specs at the website
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Hey Folks
Do we already know if the PX will have a chord mode like the P6 or the OB6?
There is Unison Chord Mode, yes.
- Unison (monophonic) mode with configurable voice count
specs at the website
Hold a chord, press Unison, you get Chord Mode.
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I'll try again: What is the "Sample Stretch" function in the X? ... is it an "offline sample stretch" or a realtime sample stretch in the playback engine? anyone who know this? .. .I asked about this earlier, but scrolling back thru all the replies since has not let me to see any kind of reply on this...
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I'll try again: What is the "Sample Stretch" function in the X? ... is it an "offline sample stretch" or a realtime sample stretch in the playback engine? anyone who know this? .. .I asked about this earlier, but scrolling back thru all the replies since has not let me to see any kind of reply on this...
I believe it has to do with instant mapping of a single sample on a specific key. Usually to do with multisamples. So if you want say a snare drum mapped acrossed the entire keybed with different pitches then you simply hold the key and hit Sample Stretch and it does it right away.
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I'll try again: What is the "Sample Stretch" function in the X? ... is it an "offline sample stretch" or a realtime sample stretch in the playback engine? anyone who know this? .. .I asked about this earlier, but scrolling back thru all the replies since has not let me to see any kind of reply on this...
The stretch function operates similar to classic samplers. It doesn't allow for random time stretching of recorded audio material. Rather, it allows for mapping the sound of one note across the whole keyboard. Let's take the samples of the VS waves for example: They are all saved as one instrument. Each note plays back a different VS wave. If you want to play a particular VS wave from the whole keyboard, you just hold down the according key and then press the stretch button. Then, the preferred sound is mapped—or pitch-stretched—across the whole keyboard.
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I'll try again: What is the "Sample Stretch" function in the X? ... is it an "offline sample stretch" or a realtime sample stretch in the playback engine? anyone who know this? .. .I asked about this earlier, but scrolling back thru all the replies since has not let me to see any kind of reply on this...
The stretch function operates similar to classic samplers. It doesn't allow for random time stretching of recorded audio material. Rather, it allows for mapping the sound of one note across the whole keyboard. Let's take the samples of the VS waves for example. They are all saved as one instrument. Each note plays back a different VS wave. If you want to play a particular VS wave from the whole keyboard, you just hold down the according key and then press the stretch button. Then, the preferred sound it mapped—or pitch-stretched—across the whole keyboard.
In other words, it acts like a normal multisample capable sampler... Too bad... realtime sample stretching (I'm talking TIME STRETCHING here) would have been very useful... but I think I'll be able to live with that if I get an X in the future... just wanted to know this for certain.
Has anyone learned how much RAM there will be for samples, or how that works?
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Has anyone learned how much RAM there will be for samples, or how that works?
1.5 GiB is the number that was bandied about earlier.
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1.5 GiB is the number that was bandied about earlier.
1.5GiB per instrument, with two instruments per layer, and two layers per program. So as much as 6GiB total.
(Random aside: I'm always thrilled to see other people use the binary SI prefixes. Thank you for making my day.)
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(Random aside: I'm always thrilled to see other people use the binary SI prefixes.)
Yeah, the GB just gives Them cover to screw us over.
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Yeah, the GB just gives Them cover to screw us over.
I've found it's pretty predictable. RAM / ROM is almost invariably measured in base 2 terms (1KB = 1024 bytes), while file sizes and disk space in general are almost invariably measured in base 10 terms (1KB = 1000 bytes.) Clock speeds and the like are always measured in base 10 terms. I can't blame people for finding it confusing and frustrating, but there are historical reasons for all of the above. Not great reasons, mind you, but at least they're generally consistent.
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One thing I'm really curious about, is how the SysEx functionallity will be with the Prophet X... My intuition tells me it will be compromised in some way, as it will be impossible to include samples with a SysEx dump of a preset... I'd really like if someone from DSI would explain a bit about this... otherwise I'll just have to wait for the manual to read about it myself.
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One thing I'm really curious about, is how the SysEx functionallity will be with the Prophet X... My intuition tells me it will be compromised in some way, as it will be impossible to include samples with a SysEx dump of a preset...
Compromised? SysEx is just what you make of it. It can't be compromised, that's a silly thing to say. Any vendor is free to send whatever they want in a SysEx dump. You can't complain about whatever format any vendor chooses to use. You can complain to the vendor about what's in the dump, but that's the level of complaint that's warranted.
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I think it's clear that presets will just contain references to what sample group is selected for each instrument, but the particulars will definitely be interesting. To allow portability between instruments (or even saving and reloading at some later date) it will important to be able to refer to a specific sample group regardless of what order they're installed in. Will there be some sort of universally unique ID associated with each one? Having the sample exporting software due in December generate UUIDs would be pretty straightforward, so that seems plausible but far from confirmed.
Even if it does work along these lines, it raises questions about what happens when you remove a sample group. Does the Prophet X warn you about programs that depend on the samples you're removing? What about samples you load subsequently? Can it somehow tell you "these programs contain references to samples from the 'Last Prophet 5 pack by 8Dio'" or something similarly clear? Or do you just get silence from the instruments referring to missing sample groups? It gets similarly weird when you consider what happens when you want to make a change, even a small addition to your own samples. Can you re-export with the same UUID so your existing presets continue to work?
I'm definitely eager to see the manual, but I'm still expecting a lot of questions to remain unanswered until someone pokes in the dark corners with a Prophet X and some optional samples in hand.
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I think it's clear that presets will just contain references to what sample group is selected for each instrument, but the particulars will definitely be interesting. To allow portability between instruments (or even saving and reloading at some later date) it will important to be able to refer to a specific sample group regardless of what order they're installed in. Will there be some sort of universally unique ID associated with each one? Having the sample exporting software due in December generate UUIDs would be pretty straightforward, so that seems plausible but far from confirmed.
Even if it does work along these lines, it raises questions about what happens when you remove a sample group. Does the Prophet X warn you about programs that depend on the samples you're removing? What about samples you load subsequently? Can it somehow tell you "these programs contain references to samples from the 'Last Prophet 5 pack by 8Dio'" or something similarly clear? Or do you just get silence from the instruments referring to missing sample groups? It gets similarly weird when you consider what happens when you want to make a change, even a small addition to your own samples. Can you re-export with the same UUID so your existing presets continue to work?
I'm definitely eager to see the manual, but I'm still expecting a lot of questions to remain unanswered until someone pokes in the dark corners with a Prophet X and some optional samples in hand.
I think this will have less to do with the manual and more to do with the software program being developed for it. I think it’ll have the ability to layer, set split points, multisample, and what not. In regards to missing samples from presets I firmly believe that that will come down to the user. If you remove or replace a sample from the engine knowing some of your presets might rely on it, then that would fall on the programmer. I don’t think a specific message or warning will come up telling you specific presets but maybe a general reminder before you remove the sample.
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I'm hoping it's less UUIDs and more knobs. I've very excited about the Prophet X, but I also seem to have acquired a Buchla Music Easel as a result of Moogfest, so I'm lost. From the rabbit hole, avanti!
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I guess I'm thinking more along the lines of what happens if I buy one of 8Dio's sample packs, create a preset, and include it along with others that rely only on the factory samples. What happens when someone else tries to load it? There will be an answer to that question on day one. We won't have to wait for the software they're planning for December.
I guess it's possible they'll just save the category and name of the sample group selected for an instrument. That would certainly be simple, and make it possible to show the selection and mark it as missing when that is indeed the case. No matter how they connect programs and presets I wouldn't expect any ugly inner workings to be exposed. I expect it to have a nice interface and look forward to exploring it first hand in, er, um, an unknown number of rather long days.
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I guess I'm thinking more along the lines of what happens if I buy one of 8Dio's sample packs, create a preset, and include it along with others that rely only on the factory samples. What happens when someone else tries to load it? There will be an answer to that question on day one. We won't have to wait for the software they're planning for December.
I guess it's possible they'll just save the category and name of the sample group selected for an instrument. That would certainly be simple, and make it possible to show the selection and mark it as missing when that is indeed the case. No matter how they connect programs and presets I wouldn't expect any ugly inner workings to be exposed. I expect it to have a nice interface and look forward to exploring it first hand in, er, um, an unknown number of rather long days.
I believe it will fall under the Instrument "USER". I think any additional samples from 8Dio or from your own personal samples are all under the category of USER. That was explained in one of the Superbooth videos. So I think it's less about sharing patches but more about sharing samples or providing the samples along with your patches via Midi.
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One thing I'm really curious about, is how the SysEx functionallity will be with the Prophet X... My intuition tells me it will be compromised in some way, as it will be impossible to include samples with a SysEx dump of a preset...
Compromised? SysEx is just what you make of it. It can't be compromised, that's a silly thing to say. Any vendor is free to send whatever they want in a SysEx dump. You can't complain about whatever format any vendor chooses to use. You can complain to the vendor about what's in the dump, but that's the level of complaint that's warranted.
I know about SysEx... I programed it in hardware chips, and created editors for several DSI synths, and yes it WILL be compromised in what's INSIDE the dump like you wrote, and that was also what I meant... the bandwidth of a SysEx dump is so slow, that putting samples into it would require days for it to even transfer :D ... so yes... a dump via SysEx from the X would no doubt only contain just the parameter data, but not the samples, and therefore it could be argued that a SysEx dump does not make much sense at all... you would not be able to store your samples with your SysEx data for example...
This is also why I hope that for once, DSI will create a combined editor/sample manager for the Prophet X, so that backups and editing can be handled from the same app, keeping the data bundled instead of having to backup samples from the user sample app they're doing, and keep the parameters (preset data) saved separately with an external editor using only SysEx.
With a machine like the Prophet X, (in my opinion) it's crucial to be able to easily manage your presets/samples as a single unit...
This is why I'm currious as to how the SysEx specs look, and what is included, and also how the samples themselves are adressed inside the dump... will instruments be indexed with a fixed maximum number af instruments per bank maybe? or will it use some other way to do it? ... just being currious as to how much control I'll have via SysEx on the Prophet X, mainly because I want to create an editor for it in some way... unless DSI create one that is.
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One thing that puzzles me is that I read that each instrument has 1.5GB reserved to it, and that with two layers and two instruments per layer you have a total of 6GB... why this dividing of the 6GB into 1.5GB segments, if the instruments is simply indexed!?
That way of splitting the RAM must have a purpose...
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I see a few comments about the X having both synth oscillators and sample oscillators, and thinking only sample oscillators would have been better... I initially thought this as well but when thinking about it, this configuration is one of the things that will set this hybrid apart... why?
1. You can obviously audio rate modulate the two with each other... only few synths have had that option, like the Yamaha SY/TG77 for example.
2. You can create less "stale" sounds when having a pair of synth oscillators on top of a sample that normally trigger exactly the same at each keypress... this is one of the reasons that synths sound more organic... the constant running oscillators... but in addition to that, you can create the typical D50 type sounds with it... the D50 used small sampled transients, and combined these with synth oscillators that did the sustain part... it opens up lots of 80's inspired sounds because of these extra synth oscillators.
So I do by no means consider the synth oscillators as a "bonus"... they are as vital to the flexibility of the Profet X as the sample oscillators are in my opinion expanded quite a bit on both the amount of sounds it is capable of creating, as well as making those sounds more lively and organic... samplers with only sample oscillators can get quite stale and static sounding. By having the synth oscillators you can create these types of sounds without having the need of layering it with other synths, and you can save the sounds as an integrated sound... i like that idea really.
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Can anybody clarify what FATAR keybed the X has? .. .is it the same as in the REV2?
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Can anybody clarify what FATAR keybed the X has? .. .is it the same as in the REV2?
Yep. It's a Fatar TP/9S.
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This instrument seems like a good opportunity to pull off the band-aid and completely omit a system exclusive specification.
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This instrument seems like a good opportunity to pull off the band-aid and completely omit a system exclusive specification.
Yes... if they include a full spec'ed editor with sample management to compensate for it :)
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This instrument seems like a good opportunity to pull off the band-aid and completely omit a system exclusive specification.
Yes... if they include a full spec'ed editor with sample management to compensate for it :)
Certainly. And an open protocol would also be nice.
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I do wonder the tuning ability of the samples. Can each Instrument be detuned or tuned to a different pitch as if it were an oscillator? Also curious, if you take keyboard tracking off does one instrument become a single pitch like how one of the P6's oscilators does when you take VCO two out of Keyboard mode?
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This instrument seems like a good opportunity to pull off the band-aid and completely omit a system exclusive specification.
Fun fact is that such specifications are not terribly difficult to make with the right tooling. ;)
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I do wonder the tuning ability of the samples. Can each Instrument be detuned or tuned to a different pitch as if it were an oscillator?
Yes.
Also curious, if you take keyboard tracking off does one instrument become a single pitch like how one of the P6's oscilators does when you take VCO two out of Keyboard mode?
You can't deactivate the keytracking for the instruments and oscillators.
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You can't deactivate the keytracking for the instruments and oscillators.
Can you effectively counteract the default key tracking by modulating instrument frequency with an appropriate negative amount sourced from the key number? Or is the frequency modulation linear (where you’d need something exponential to pull this off)?
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You can't deactivate the keytracking for the instruments and oscillators.
This is incorrect. You can set the oscillators and samples to not track the keyboard and only play at their root pitch.
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You can't deactivate the keytracking for the instruments and oscillators.
This is incorrect. You can set the oscillators and samples to not track the keyboard and only play at their root pitch.
Sorry for the confusion, I stand corrected. :-[
There is indeed a "Key Follow" option in the according menu tabs that can be activated or deactivated.
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You can't deactivate the keytracking for the instruments and oscillators.
This is incorrect. You can set the oscillators and samples to not track the keyboard and only play at their root pitch.
Sorry for the confusion, I stand corrected. :-[
There is indeed a "Key Follow" option in the according menu tabs that can be activated or deactivated.
I'm glad you were wrong, because that feature is what makes stuff like sync/ringmod/FM and other audio rate modulations interesting :)
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I have a thing I've been wondering about the sample playback engine of the Prophet X, that maybe DSI can answer:
What sample frequency does it run at?, and does it have any kind of sample interpolation in the playback? ... I'm thinking of pitch transposition here... when you use a steady sample rate and pitch down, and you play back at say; one octave lower than the root key, if you have no interpolation you just play the same sample twice to get an octave lower... does the PX interpolate in these cases, making the deeper transpositions sound less "quantized"? ... or will the analog filters be what makes up for that?
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From what I can see in the manual, you can't map samples to individual keys until the software comes out in December, even 8Dio included samples? I am right? If so, this is a shame but I could be wrong.
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From what I can see in the manual, you can't map samples to individual keys until the software comes out in December, even 8Dio included samples? I am right? If so, this is a shame but I could be wrong.
This is correct but the software will make that possible. Not a huge deal cause the synth will have more than enough to experiment with until the software comes out.
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Is the synth engine effectively the same as the Rev 2 or another DSI synth (under the hood I mean, not in feature set), does anyone know?
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Is the synth engine effectively the same as the Rev 2 or another DSI synth (under the hood I mean, not in feature set), does anyone know?
These are digital oscillators, not analog. Similar layout, different engine.
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Thanks.. but don't the P08 and Rev2 have DCOs too?
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Thanks.. but don't the P08 and Rev2 have DCOs too?
DCOs are digitally controlled analog oscillators, where the clock source (the external frequency reference) is digital, nothing else. The oscillators of the Prophet 12, Pro 2, and the Prophet X are DSP-based digital oscillators.
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Is the synth engine effectively the same as the Rev 2 or another DSI synth (under the hood I mean, not in feature set), does anyone know?
On the sheer typical synth engine level (i.e. if you substract everything sample-related including the according mod destinations), the Prophet X comes closest to the Rev2. On top of that, though, the oscillators can frequency modulate each other. And of course the filter is different and works in true stereo. And you get two effects per layer instead of one. Same goes for the auxiliary envelopes: The Prophet X has two while the Rev2 has only one.
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Thanks.. but don't the P08 and Rev2 have DCOs too?
DCOs are digitally controlled analog oscillators, where the clock source (the external frequency reference) is digital, nothing else. The oscillators of the Prophet 12, Pro 2, and the Prophet X are DSP-based digital oscillators.
OK got it.. I never knew that regarding the P12 and the Pro 2! Thanks :)
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Is the synth engine effectively the same as the Rev 2 or another DSI synth (under the hood I mean, not in feature set), does anyone know?
On the sheer typical synth engine level (i.e. if you substract everything sample-related including the according mod destinations), the Prophet X comes closest to the Rev2. On top of that, though, the oscillators can frequency modulate each other. And of course the filter is different and works in true stereo. And you get two effects per layer instead of one. Same goes for the auxiliary envelopes: The Prophet X has two while the Rev2 has only one.
Thanks so much.. the more I learn about this thing the more the possibilities seem to unravel!
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Ok, now that it's been released/shipped, are we going to see a list of samples from 8DIO?
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I know it's a bit much to be asking for updates on a product that's only just started shipping :)
But i noticed the 'random' source in the mod matrix isn't mentioned in the manual.
On the P12 this generated a static random value for every note pressed.
Seems a shame, since it would allow to have a real stereo pan spread when using 16 voice-mode , and it is great for having arpeggiaters that don't sound static and are a bit different every note.
Should be quite easy to implement, since it's already in the P12 and not a super complex algorythm.
Please DSI, a simple thing that i'm sure would give vast improvements!
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In lieu of the Random mod source, in the Prophet X we have two independent, general purpose Slop sources. They're super fun and useful!
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Been looking a bit on the FX section of the PX, and as far as I can see, it's not the same exactly as the other synths of late from DSI... you now have three instead of two parameters per FX which definitely improved on the tweakability... but I noticed that the REV2/OB6 Ringmod FX has been taken away which is a bit of a shame I think... I wonder if the algorithms have changed as well?
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In lieu of the Random mod source, in the Prophet X we have two independent, general purpose Slop sources. They're super fun and useful!
Can the samples have some type of Slop effect on them? To emulate horn clusters, out of tune pianos etc.
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I have a question... reading thru the Prophet X manual's part on loops, I get the understanding that the PX will actually crossfade loops in realtime!? is this correctly understood? ... I asume this is to simplify loop making which of course is cool, but also for doing the granular stuff?
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I have a question... reading thru the Prophet X manual's part on loops, I get the understanding that the PX will actually crossfade loops in realtime!? is this correctly understood? ... I asume this is to simplify loop making which of course is cool, but also for doing the granular stuff?
read page 108 :)
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In lieu of the Random mod source, in the Prophet X we have two independent, general purpose Slop sources. They're super fun and useful!
Yeah, those are a nice idea, but it's not the same as a static offset per note. I wonder how the rate of change is in the slop value, it probably randomly fluctuates a bit in speed as well. Maybe you can get similar results when using high mod values with it, but does it make big jumps with every new note? possibly the size of the jump is determined by the mod value. But i've always seen slop as a parameter that kind of 'oscillates' around a center value.
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Why not use an LFO, random shape, keysync on, slow speed.
This would have the same effect, no?
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Can anyone of you who have had access to a PX tell me, what they think about the new reverb algorithms? I can see in the manual that there seems to be more reverb algorithms than just one (like on the REV2)... Do they sound good? are they good for extremely long and modulated ambient reverbs?
The Reverb in the REV2 is practically useless when it comes to long ambient delays, i can only find a use for it with short room-like ambiences. It comes nowhere near the decay times I need for my style of sounds, neither does it have the modulated smoothness of a good ambient reverb.
I'm not interested in being told I can use external reverbs... I KNOW THAT, and will be using external reverbs, but it would be nice if more manufacturers started to use some resources on developing good reverbs in their synths, because it makes it all more contained within a preset, if you could program reverbs as part of the sound design process.
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Can anyone of you who have had access to a PX tell me, what they think about the new reverb algorithms? I can see in the manual that there seems to be more reverb algorithms than just one (like on the REV2)... Do they sound good? are they good for extremely long and modulated ambient reverbs?
The Reverb in the REV2 is practically useless when it comes to long ambient delays, i can only find a use for it with short room-like ambiences. It comes nowhere near the decay times I need for my style of sounds, neither does it have the modulated smoothness of a good ambient reverb.
I'm not interested in being told I can use external reverbs... I KNOW THAT, and will be using external reverbs, but it would be nice if more manufacturers started to use some resources on developing good reverbs in their synths, because it makes it all more contained within a preset, if you could program reverbs as part of the sound design process.
Apart from one more parameter for each effect, there are two new effects: One is a Leslie effect, the other one a new reverb called Super Plate. That would be the one to go to in your case. It's a cool addition for more extreme reverb tails and I had to be careful not to use it on every patch. Modulating the parameters time and early reflection can add some nice glitchiness in a good way.
As for what you wrote about the delays: I still find the on-board delays very useful, particularly since you can modulate the delay time, which can add some harmonic density and movement at subtle settings.
For ambient sounds you should also consider the Rotating Speaker effect. It may not be a typical Ambient effect, but it can add a somewhat 'veiled' and dreamy aspect. Definitely another cool addition and not just for organ sounds.
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Can anyone of you who have had access to a PX tell me, what they think about the new reverb algorithms? I can see in the manual that there seems to be more reverb algorithms than just one (like on the REV2)... Do they sound good? are they good for extremely long and modulated ambient reverbs?
The Reverb in the REV2 is practically useless when it comes to long ambient delays, i can only find a use for it with short room-like ambiences. It comes nowhere near the decay times I need for my style of sounds, neither does it have the modulated smoothness of a good ambient reverb.
I'm not interested in being told I can use external reverbs... I KNOW THAT, and will be using external reverbs, but it would be nice if more manufacturers started to use some resources on developing good reverbs in their synths, because it makes it all more contained within a preset, if you could program reverbs as part of the sound design process.
Apart from one more parameter for each effect, there are two new effects: One is a Leslie effect, the other one a new reverb called Super Plate. That would be the one to go to in your case. It's a cool addition for more extreme reverb tails and I had to be careful not to use it on every patch. Modulating the parameters time and early reflection can add some nice glitchiness in a good way.
As for what you wrote about the delays: I still find the on-board delays very useful, particularly since you can modulate the delay time, which can add some harmonic density and movement at subtle settings.
For ambient sounds you should also consider the Rotating Speaker effect. It may not be a typical Ambient effect, but it can add a somewhat 'veiled' and dreamy aspect. Definitely another cool addition and not just for organ sounds.
Thanks for the info.... though I do not recall that I said anything about the delays? ... The delays are fine... all the FX are, except that I miss a longer/smoother reverb... I'd like to see more sound sculpting/modulating FX for both REV2 and PX actually, more FX that can be used as an extra sound sculpting block... stuff like decimator, ensemble, resonator, bandpass filter and even an FM/Sync effect working like the Ring modulator... these would really benefit especially the REV2 which do not have any digital oscillator tricks to pull off. But I think they would benefit the PX too...
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I agree, all the other effects on the REV2 do the trick except for the most important one of all, reverb. I would have traded all the non-delay effects for more/better reverb types. As it stands a separate reverb unit is mandatory for me.
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I almost always use an external reverb on my gear. The reverb on the P6 is pretty good but generally I'm starting to run them through...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQWIGOXuw_k
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I almost always use an external reverb on my gear. The reverb on the P6 is pretty good but generally I'm starting to run them through...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQWIGOXuw_k
External FX are fine... the problem is that they are separate from the presets on a synth... sometimes I like the idear of just turning on a synth, and then having the reverb fit the chosen preset specifically... as in having been made as part of the preset itself... reverb completely change the atmosphere of any preset sound, in fact many sounds, if you remove it, sounds dull and boring... especially if you make ambient music.
When I need to use an external FX unit, I often end up using the same reverb on every track, simply because I forget to change the reverb parameters... if reverb was an integral part of a preset, every preset with reverb would have a reverb that was tailored to that particular sound... and that is why I wish more manufacturers would spend a little more time perfecting their FX engine algorithms... many usually sound metallic when it comes to reverbs, or thin and brittle.
It sometimes feel like manufacturers are thinking "they can just use external FX if they want better, we don't want to spend more time on this", and that is a shame because on many occasions I've felt that the FX section just sound like it's "broken" really... it seems to be the smaller niche manufacturers though... manufacturers like KORG, Yamaha, Roland etc. have perfected their FX over the years, and reuse them often... but companies like DSI and Waldorf still have mediocre FX in my opinion...
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It sometimes feel like manufacturers are thinking "they can just use external FX if they want better, we don't want to spend more time on this"
It's not just the time but the money. A good synth deserves the highest quality reverb you can afford. I turn them off always.
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It sometimes feel like manufacturers are thinking "they can just use external FX if they want better, we don't want to spend more time on this"
It's not just the time but the money. A good synth deserves the highest quality reverb you can afford. I turn them off always.
Reverb is the only one I never use on a synth... modulation FX and delays can almost always find their use, but a grainy metallic reverb is just plain horrible... I think that the only hardware synth where I've switched them off completely (all of them) is the Blofeld... those FX are simply horribly below mediocre.
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Synths without built-in effects probably demo poorly enough in a retail setting that manufacturers feel obliged to include something. There's arguably some merit to having per-patch effects settings so you can showcase a sound + effects combination that might inspire something worthwhile.
When recording, though? Most effects wouldn't make sense baked into a track. Where I find the odd rare exception is in a patch where high quality effects are modulated as part of the performance. Not enough synth designs go deep enough here to make this a meaningful distinction, but I absolutely adore Kurzweil's KDFX for flexibility. I'm looking forward to getting my Prophet X to see what category it inhabits.
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Synths without built-in effects probably demo poorly enough in a retail setting that manufacturers feel obliged to include something. There's arguably some merit to having per-patch effects settings so you can showcase a sound + effects combination that might inspire something worthwhile.
When recording, though? Most effects wouldn't make sense baked into a track. Where I find the odd rare exception is in a patch where high quality effects are modulated as part of the performance. Not enough synth designs go deep enough here to make this a meaningful distinction, but I absolutely adore Kurzweil's KDFX for flexibility. I'm looking forward to getting my Prophet X to see what category it inhabits.
Sure... but even without being able to actually modulate the FX parameters from a Mod Matrix, effects can radically change a preset's nature, be it spatial or modulation FX... enough to see them as an actual building block important to the preset in itself... this approach is not possible with external FX, they are more like "add ons" ... I agree that having a different reverb for each track can get out of hand since a reverb is basically an environmental FX where all sounds should "reside inside it", but any other FX could very well be different for each and every track without it sounding "wrong"... even in some cases, different reverbs could also be an advantage, especially in atmospheres, sound FX etc...
This is why any synth these days should have their own quality FX onboard, and of course a dedicated "FX OFF!" button, if it gets out of hand... because I also know that you can end up with way too much FX, drowning everything in mud and destroying the stereo perspective if every track boasts it's own stereo choruses, flangers, phasers, delays reverbs etc...
Point is; I'd rather switch things OFF, than have to add-on FX for every single track i do... but that's a personal thing of course... others may feel otherwise :)
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Hello community ;) long time dsi owner here. Just dropping in before the X lands. I currently have an OB6 and a Pro2 in studio, and I’m anxiously awaiting the Prophet X. I guess I could see the Pro2 being a bit redundant, but I really doubt it :). Hope to hear you new owners feedback soon.
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I'm keeping my Prophet 6 until hell freezes over, but I have listed the Rev2/16. I also decommissioned the rest of my Nord gear, a Lead 3 and Rack 3. I have a nice space for the Prophet X staked out under the Prophet 6 where the Rev2 was living.
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Nice interview with Dave Smith and footage of Prophet X release party (link starts there) by AudioNowcast:
https://youtu.be/j-yqvFxIc7k?t=15m19s (https://youtu.be/j-yqvFxIc7k?t=15m19s)
Note: Posted this video twice. But it kind of fits everywhere in the forum :)
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The new superplate is FANTASTIC, I really struggled NOT to use it on every patch I made.
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@bobule, did you have chance to try out the playlist function? Looks like a nice addition for live play or sketch pad type applications. Oh and thanks :) for the soundcloud demo’s, seems the Prophet X has some serious depth to it!
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My Prophet X is ariving tomorrow ;)
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Whoa! Congratulations! It looks like mine will be shipping today, but it’s taking a little longer to make its way here.
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Thanks full steam ahead
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No more speculating for me. I just took possession of my X.
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No more speculating for me. I just took possession of my X.
Got mine too!
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No more speculating for me. I just took possession of my X.
Got mine too!
Nice hard to gig when it’s Christmas morning, start a new users thread
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Mine's showing up at 8Dio HQ on Monday, I'll probably go pick it up. How exciting!
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Mine's showing up at 8Dio HQ on Monday, I'll probably go pick it up. How exciting!
Nice! I can tell you this much, I just lost 4 hours ;) so much to explore but so easy to get caught up on one sound. It’s a very very expressive instrument it begs for good chops in all styles. Oh and the stereo sound is fantastic especially on the synth side stellar
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Jaw is dropped! These samples thru these filters is nothing short of spectacular. Man nice job dsi! And 8dio of course
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How is the build quality on the X ? I had a P12 (which looks very similar to the X)and it was good. My experience with the Rev 2 was not really satisfactory. I'm hoping the X is better quality. Still waiting for a list of samples as well, and if the Prophet 5 and CP 70 samples are all they are said to be.
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Yes, build quality is equal to the OB6 and Pro2 perfect for me. Layering the X and OB6 is incredible, still honeymooning, but omg this thing delivers. Just lost hours modulating instrument 1&2 choirs with lfo’s panning etc etc, spent half the day yesterday just doing onboard sequencer jam’s with the PX OB6 and PRO2 ;D a pure pleasure to say the least
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Good to hear. How about strings and the Prophet 5 and CP samples?
It's going to be a while before we get this in The Great White North.
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The Prophet 5 and CP70 are add on packs so not on board, the strings are fantastic to my ears I’m not a sample head I’m a player, haven’t tried them all of course but the demo’s don’t lie. The thing to keep in mind is even a short stab that you may never solo could be mangled a multitude of ways and easily. The stereo filters sound fantastic and if you describe the OB6 as frothy, then the PX would be creamy, mind you that’s my take, mileage may vary, and I’m just scratching the surface. ;)
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Vs waves are kicking the bass is sublime that’s with no tweaking off of the poly vs preset, you could hold a stadium with onenote, yes it’s that good
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8Dio delivered mine today, woo hoo! It has new synthesizer smell!
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Vs waves are kicking the bass is sublime that’s with no tweaking off of the poly vs preset, you could hold a stadium with onenote, yes it’s that good
How are the bass samples? Do they include electric and slap bass?
Can’t wait to get mine.
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Just browsing the Bass section, there's Bass Electric Slap and Bass Electric Slap Mute, so yes!
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Just browsing the Bass section, there's Bass Electric Slap and Bass Electric Slap Mute, so yes!
Great to hear
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So uh, who's going to be first to post an in depth demo video?
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So uh, who's going to be first to post an in depth demo video?
Maybe slutz :P
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Ugh I hope mine comes soon. I have the camera ready and my dad and we are going to do a video series going through the X. But the store has no idea of an ETA.
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Ugh I hope mine comes soon. I have the camera ready and my dad and we are going to do a video series going through the X. But the store has no idea of an ETA.
Canadian distribution was always a complete mystery back when I lived up North. I would hope it had improved somewhat, but I know a lot of folks down here are in the dark about when theirs will arrive, too. Really early orders have gone out but beyond that ... ? I ordered mine the morning of May 1st so it was part of what appears to be the very first batch. Tomorrow can’t get here soon enough.
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I just have to say the same thing, these 8Dio samples through these stereo filters and effects is just phenomenal on the studio monitors. Kudos to everyone involved in the creation of this lovely instrument!
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Will you all shut up about how great this synth is.. I can feel my bank balance taking a nosedive some time soon at this rate ;) ;D
Seriously though, I'm green with envy and glad it's meeting your expectations :)
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Ugh I hope mine comes soon. I have the camera ready and my dad and we are going to do a video series going through the X. But the store has no idea of an ETA.
Canadian distribution was always a complete mystery back when I lived up North. I would hope it had improved somewhat, but I know a lot of folks down here are in the dark about when theirs will arrive, too. Really early orders have gone out but beyond that ... ? I ordered mine the morning of May 1st so it was part of what appears to be the very first batch. Tomorrow can’t get here soon enough.
Yeah the store apparently had 60 on pre order with ours being one of the first but they have no clue how long we’ll be waiting.
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Okay guys 17 categories over 800 instruments rough count , of course 2 instruments available per patch, and many many multi’s , aka drums cinematic effects waves etc etc