The Official Sequential/Oberheim Forum
OTHER DISCUSSIONS => General Synthesis => Other Hardware/Software => Topic started by: eXode on January 21, 2016, 05:16:02 AM
-
(http://audionewsroom.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/arturia-brute-matrix.jpg)
Analog synth lovers, Arturia has something new for you. After the succesful Minibrute and Microbrute, the Sonic Joy awarded Beatstep Pro, the French company has unveiled the new MatrixBrute Analog Synthesizer.
At a glance:
3 ‘Brute’ oscillators
superb-sounding Steiner-Parker and ladder filters,
3 ultra-fast envelope generators,
analogue effects
modulation matrix
64 step sequencer
factory and user presets
Audio IN, MIDI, CV, USB connections
Modular… without the painful patching practice of going modular, in other words!
In Arturia’s words “Matrix by name, matrix by nature, that namesake modulation matrix is at the heart of MatrixBrute, making the most of each ‘module’ through a matrix that offers thousands of potential modulation routings. Assign any of 16 modulation sources to any of 16 modulation destinations (in MOD mode) and set the amounts of each modulation routing using the dedicated data encoder; four such destinations are user programmable and can clearly be seen in the eye-catching E Ink (Electronic Ink) display. Don’t be afraid to invent a sound palette of your own and make your musical mark!
That multifaceted matrix also allows presets to be recalled quite literally at the touch of a (dedicated) button (in PRESET mode). Go grab one of the 256 pioneering, pre-programmed professional presets or recall one of your own original sound creations… instantly! Indeed, MatrixBrute packs the power of a modular synth system with an all-important ability to save each patch. No need to worry about recording a sound straight away for fear of losing it forever!
Furthermore, the matrix can also be pressed into action as an awesome 64-step sequencer with separate STEP, ACCENT, SLIDE, and MODULATION options (in SEQ mode). Make musical moves directly on your analogue synthesizer. Sounds can evolve in melody and texture… exactly the way you want them to!
To help maintain a 100% analogue signal path, MatrixBrute also adds true ANALOG EFFECTS to its stereo output — choose from chorus, delay, and flanger with five operational modes… and, yes, any ANALOG EFFECTS controls can be set as modulation destinations in the matrix! When was the last time you worked with analogue effects and a great arpeggiator? Ask no more. MatrixBrute has got you well and truly covered. Multiple modes of both the Arpeggiator and Sequencer allow almost unlimited musical ideas to quickly and easily flow forth for instant inspiration!
It’s a given that any analogue synthesizer only sounds as good as its VCFs (Voltage-Controlled Filters) and VCOs (Voltage-Controlled Oscillators). The MatrixBrute Analog Synthesizer sounds superb, markedly making the most of its four-mode STEINER FILTER (upgraded to support both 12dB/oct and 24dB/oct slopes alongside a dedicated Drive control for creating thicker sounds) and three-mode LADDER FILTER (known for creating punchy bass and fat lead sounds with 12dB/oct and 24dB/oct slopes alongside another dedicated Drive control).
The three VCOs are each equipped with a sub-oscillator as well as Saw, Pulse, and Triangle waveforms with the unique wave-shapers that are the trademark of the beloved ‘Brute’ sound of the MatrixBrute Analog Synthesizer’s smaller siblings, the award-winning and amazingly compact and bijou MiniBrute and MicroBrute monosynths (both boasting MIDI, USB, and CV connectivity together with a host of unique features).
But by pairing a 49-note (full-size) keyboard (featuring both velocity-sensitivity and aftertouch for a musical feel with plenty of expression) with a beautifully-designed, solid chassis (featuring a helpfully-hinged, hands-on capacious control panel), the road-ready MatrixBrute Analog Synthesizer is both bigger and better, boasting more connections than an airport… well, almost!”
As such, you can comfortably work with any setup — cue control voltage interfacing in abundance (12 CV inputs and 12 CV outputs to interface with any standard 1V/oct modular gear); AUDIO IN (line and instrument levels allow for adding an external oscillator from a favourite modular synth or processing a guitar or other instrument through the filters, VCA, and analogue effects); GATE In and Out (to trigger external gear or trigger the internal envelopes remotely); SYNC In and Out (to synchronise the internal sequencer and arpeggiator with external devices); standard MIDI In, Out, and Thru (to connect to both modern and vintage gear alike); USB I/O (to interface to a computer-based DAW directly and also use the free editor/librarian software); and PEDALS (Expression 1, Expression 2, and Sustain inputs to provide realtime control) — not forgetting, of course, MASTER OUT (stereo master outputs on 1/4-inch jacks).
The MatrixBrute Analog Synthesizer is expected to ship in Spring 2016 when it will be available to buy directly from Arturia online or through the company’s global network of dealers and retailers.
-
When I saw that picture I thought "hoax." But that thing's for real and appears to be the best monosynth yet, at least on paper. I hope it won't cost quite as much as a Voyager, though!
4 full-sized octaves…
-
Price according to YuSynth (http://forum.anafrog.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=248845#p248845) will be around $1800 USD which, if true, is not bad at all.
-
Seems monophonic... guess it's an OK price too... and the fact that someone AT LAST put in analog FX is cool... I'll be following this one, especialy because it has preset memories.... but something tells me, that it might not be specced like I want it to MIDI wise...
-
(http://recording.de/_files/magazin/20160121/matrix-front.png)
Some highlights/clarifications from Yves Usson on french forum:
2 VCO a'la Micro/Minibrute
1 VCO/LFO with cross mod
1 VCF Steiner multimode. Switching 12/24 db with Brute Factor
1 VCF Transistor (ladder?) witching 12/24 db (with or without brute factor, not sure what he meant).
3 EG's - 2 HADSR, 1 ADSR
2 LFO's
Analogue BBD effects
4 octave keyboard with mono, duophonic och split.
64 step sequencer
16x16 modulation matrix
EST: $1800 USD - Available from September.
-
Now that's a real surprise! I thought they'd rather do a poly synth, but this looks really pleasant. Who would have thought that Arturia jumps in when Moog discontinues the Voyager?
-
I wonder if they have a lot of those BBD chips because as far as I know, they are not being produced anymore... MOOG often discontinue their delay pedals because they run out of those...
-
Now that's a real surprise! I thought they'd rather do a poly synth, but this looks really pleasant. Who would have thought that Arturia jumps in when Moog discontinues the Voyager?
There's a slap for Moog. Visually, it's definitely reminiscent of the Minimoog, especially from behind.
-
Here's a demonstration:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfLTlbGwXD0
-
but something tells me, that it might not be specced like I want it to MIDI wise...
What makes you say that? Isn't full digital storage of the whole modulation matrix along with every other parameter kind of its selling point? If so, a full MIDI implementation is basically a given, unless they want you to use their editor software only.
-
Here's a demonstration:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfLTlbGwXD0
Well, not really…
-
Just read elsewhere that this should be priced at £600 in the UK.
-
Just read elsewhere that this should be priced at £600 in the UK.
Sweetwater just said $1,999.
-
Official info up on Arturia web now:
https://www.arturia.com/matrixbrute/overview
Update: Sweetwater says $1999 USD
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MatrixBrute
-
This is pretty brilliant, as a product. More exciting, I'd say, than the Korg. The ladder filter is a great touch, as the Steiner-Parker filter is decent, but not enough to carry... you know what? I'm not even going to finish that sentence, as I've never heard a 24dB Steiner-Parker filter. But definitely a good call to have a couple options.
That matrix pad on the panel makes me just want to reach out and start pushing buttons.
-
That matrix pad on the panel makes me just want to reach out and start pushing buttons.
That matrix panel looks great. I am not in the target audience for this new instrument but one reservation I have is finding my way around that large array of buttons. I love the concept but honestly my eyes would not like to have to use it. Matrix allergy, maybe? ;)
-
Just read elsewhere that this should be priced at £600 in the UK.
Sweetwater just said $1,999.
Looks like they were wrong then.
I might have paid 600 but not that much more. I already gave an Origin that is falling apart.
-
but something tells me, that it might not be specced like I want it to MIDI wise...
What makes you say that? Isn't full digital storage of the whole modulation matrix along with every other parameter kind of its selling point? If so, a full MIDI implementation is basically a given, unless they want you to use their editor software only.
Full MIDI specs includes full external control, so that I can make my own editor for it... and the specs do not tell anything about that yet... ;)
-
Full MIDI specs includes full external control, so that I can make my own editor for it... and the specs do not tell anything about that yet... ;)
That's what I meant by full MIDI spec ;) Anyway I just wanted to say I'm very optimistic in that regard and was wondering what led you to be cautious here. I guess we just have to wait and see!
-
Full MIDI specs includes full external control, so that I can make my own editor for it... and the specs do not tell anything about that yet... ;)
That's what I meant by full MIDI spec ;) Anyway I just wanted to say I'm very optimistic in that regard and was wondering what led you to be cautious here. I guess we just have to wait and see!
That's easy to explain why I'm causious.... because it's a company with which I'm not familiar, and different companies has very different ways of handling their SysEx messages.... I still rely on the old SoundDiver program for making my editors, and one thing that can totaly ruin that, is if it's using an unknown checksum for example, or if it uses the same bytes in the structure for different values depending on other parameters (say, you have built in FX, and one byte holds the type of effect, and the next ten bytes hold the values for it... thus changing depending on what FX you've chosen)... SoundDiver cannot cope well with that... then there is the question about request messages... does it have them, or do you have to initiate dumps from the front panel of the synth? ... will it recieve the dumps back "on the fly", or do you have to enter some specific screen or mode to have the synth accept a dump?
Loads of things can actualy ruin my usage of it, if the MIDI specs are not pretty standard... but my needs are quite demanding... I know that ;) ... I simply do not buy a synth until I've studied it's MIDI specs in depth and beyond first...
-
Full MIDI specs includes full external control, so that I can make my own editor for it... and the specs do not tell anything about that yet... ;)
That's what I meant by full MIDI spec ;) Anyway I just wanted to say I'm very optimistic in that regard and was wondering what led you to be cautious here. I guess we just have to wait and see!
That's easy to explain why I'm causious.... because it's a company with which I'm not familiar, and different companies has very different ways of handling their SysEx messages.... I still rely on the old SoundDiver program for making my editors, and one thing that can totaly ruin that, is if it's using an unknown checksum for example, or if it uses the same bytes in the structure for different values depending on other parameters (say, you have built in FX, and one byte holds the type of effect, and the next ten bytes hold the values for it... thus changing depending on what FX you've chosen)... SoundDiver cannot cope well with that... then there is the question about request messages... does it have them, or do you have to initiate dumps from the front panel of the synth? ... will it recieve the dumps back "on the fly", or do you have to enter some specific screen or mode to have the synth accept a dump?
Loads of things can actualy ruin my usage of it, if the MIDI specs are not pretty standard... but my needs are quite demanding... I know that ;) ... I simply do not buy a synth until I've studied it's MIDI specs in depth and beyond first...
Oh well, I didn't know it was that specific! In that case, let's hope it turns out the way you want it to. It seems to be quite an interesting synthesizer.
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7otjBeR0yh0&feature=em-uploademail (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7otjBeR0yh0&feature=em-uploademail)
If Arturia doesn't mess anything up, Moog is starting to get a problem.
-
Yes, indeed. Could this be a Voyager XL killer?
I've always liked the ability to mix waveforms within an oscillator, rather than just select one. Considering the limitations of an analog oscillator, it does increase the tonal range a bit. I also like the choice of four different types of noise. An interesting design for presets. And a nice keyboard length, too. A very impressive instrument.
-
I've always liked the ability to mix waveforms within an oscillator, rather than just select one. Considering the limitations of an analog oscillator, it does increase the tonal range a bit.
Not sure how familiar you are with the previous Brute's but it's not just that you can mix the waveforms. Next to traditional PWM there are different ways to modulate/shape the other waveforms (taken from the Minibrute product page):
Saw - Ultrasaw
(http://www.arturia.com/images/products/minibrute/Ultrasaw.jpg)
Ultrasaw provides shimmering sawtooth waveforms that will considerably enrich the sound.
It basically makes two phase-shifted copies of the raw sawtooth waveform. The copies have ever-evolving phase shifts of their own, and when mixed with the original sawtooth they complement one another.
This results in a lively, rich, bright ensemble effect that can be further enhanced by the modulation rates of the phase-shifted copies. This is the first time a feature like this has been offered in an analog keyboard.
Triangle - Metalizer
(http://www.arturia.com/images/products/minibrute/Metalizer.jpg)
The Metalizer takes the basic triangle waveform, “warping” and “folding” it to create complex, jagged waveforms that are rich in high harmonics. This results in pitched, “metallic” sounds that are ideal for harpsichord- and clavinet-type tones. Dynamic modulation of the warp/fold parameters by an LFO or envelope opens up a realm of “clangorous” sounds that will cut through your mix nicely.
-
Well... in the video he's talking about an editor, and dumps back and forth... now it's a lot more interresting, especialy if they have an editor for it :)
-
This definitely has my attention. Hopefully more demos will be out soon.
-
Not sure how familiar you are with the previous Brute's but it's not just that you can mix the waveforms. Next to traditional PWM there are different ways to modulate/shape the other waveforms
I love this feature. On the MicroBrute, this capability goes a long way toward compensating for a 12dB/oct filter. With the MatrixBrute's already more and better filters, the wave shaping will be even more flexible.
The "Brute Factor" on the Steiner-Parker filter is basically a feedback control. Unlike the Evolver feedback, which sends the signal from after the highpass filter output back to the beginning of the signal path, Brute Factor sends the signal from the synth's output right back into the filter. I think this is a more pleasing way to do it.
-
The Brutes have their own sound, that's what I like about them in the first place. In that regard Moog doesn't really have to worry, since only Moog sounds like Moog.
It's the Matrix Brute's features that could certainy harm Moog though. Also, notice that there are 2 manufacturers that introduced an improved ladder filter at this NAMM: Arturia and Dave Rossum with his Evolution filter. Both made sure that the bottom end isn't cut, when resonance is engaged, or at least give you the option of how much you want the bottom end to be affected as in Rossum's case.
-
Not sure how familiar you are with the previous Brute's but it's not just that you can mix the waveforms. Next to traditional PWM there are different ways to modulate/shape the other waveforms (taken from the Minibrute product page):
I admired this in the previous Brutes - the way they were getting the most out of otherwise traditional waveforms. I might have bought the Mini if it had been a larger instrument.
-
I was lucky with my MiniBute, but I've read and heard a lot about built quality issues. I hope they can get it right this time and that no one has to wait about 12 months for them to be delivered.
-
On the other hand: If they will deliver in this case, then I would even consider exchanging my Sub 37 for this.
-
I'll be interested to hear this instrument in a studio-quality recording. It looks fabulous and the features are great, but it's got to be able to sing well.
-
I'll be interested to hear this instrument in a studio-quality recording. It looks fabulous and the features are great, but it's got to be able to sing well.
I agree. Professional demos might not be available before spring though. I trust the oscillators, but I'm curious to hear how three of them sound together and what's possible with the filter combination. The matrix idea is really cool, because you can actually 'play' it, which is a cool way of enhancing direct modulation control.
-
Didn't they say it won't be available until June? And by then, the Vermona 14 may be out!
-
Didn't they say it won't be available until June? And by then, the Vermona 14 may be out!
Yeah, something like that. - Oh, I just realized that there was no coverage on anything Vermona did.
-
Maybe Thomas from Vermona lost that prototype he demonstrated last year!
Their announcement a month ago said the Vermona would be available in 2016, but not exactly when.
-
Yeah, something like that. - Oh, I just realized that there was no coverage on anything Vermona did.
Here it is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8UDr7FT5ZI
-
Yeah, something like that. - Oh, I just realized that there was no coverage on anything Vermona did.
Here it is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8UDr7FT5ZI
Ah, thank you. So no real news yet. The arpeggiator and sequencer functionality looks good though. Wonder how much it'll be in the end.
-
Back on topic:
Another video with some nice examples in the end (although I believe it has been taken from somewhere else): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-czRrnUlOk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-czRrnUlOk)
-
The most informative video to date: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cVTFxEw8FY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cVTFxEw8FY)
-
And a couple of more sounds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geRsiHK9gmA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geRsiHK9gmA)
-
This may seem a bit shallow, but does anyone know if those side panels are actually wood or just some plastic meant to look like wood?
-
Yummy. (Might also answer the wood question. - It's real wood.)
(http://www.sequencer.de/synthesizer/download/file.php?id=18068&mode=view)
(http://www.sequencer.de/synthesizer/download/file.php?id=18067&mode=view)
-
In regards to the step sequencer...can you mute steps, ratchet steps or chain sequences together?
-
Hi everyone. I am new here and have few queries. Can you people please tell me that Isn't full digital storage of the whole modulation matrix along with every other parameter kind of its selling point? If so, a full MIDI implementation is basically a given, unless they want you to use their editor software only.
hdi pcbs (http://www.7pcb.com/HDI-PCB.php)
-
Hi everyone. I am new here and have few queries. Can you people please tell me that Isn't full digital storage of the whole modulation matrix along with every other parameter kind of its selling point? If so, a full MIDI implementation is basically a given, unless they want you to use their editor software only.
The real issue probably has more to do with documentation than capability.
-
New video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcKJ-qNzijY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcKJ-qNzijY)
-
I already gave an Origin that is falling apart.
Arturia is the new Alesis in terms of build quality.
-
I already gave an Origin that is falling apart.
Arturia is the new Alesis in terms of build quality.
Oh, snap!
I feel like I have to defend Arturia a little bit, here, albeit only anecdotally. I'm impressed with the build quality of my MicroBrute. The case doesn't flex, the pots are smooth and solid, the jacks are in the decent range. They're up there with, say, Korg, nowadays. Maybe somewhere between Casio and Korg. Not amazing, but not really terrible.
Note that my 'Brute lives on a cushy desk in a home office, so it doesn't exactly see serious action.
-
I already gave an Origin that is falling apart.
Arturia is the new Alesis in terms of build quality.
Oh, snap!
I feel like I have to defend Arturia a little bit, here, albeit only anecdotally. I'm impressed with the build quality of my MicroBrute. The case doesn't flex, the pots are smooth and solid, the jacks are in the decent range. They're up there with, say, Korg, nowadays. Maybe somewhere between Casio and Korg. Not amazing, but not really terrible.
Note that my 'Brute lives on a cushy desk in a home office, so it doesn't exactly see serious action.
That's one hell of an endorsement you made there. :)
-
Arturia is the new Alesis in terms of build quality.
Dunno. I thought the MiniBrute - at least the 2nd revision (after they changed the keyboard supplier) - was solid. Never had any issues with it and it's certainly way more robust than the MS-20 Mini. And everybody who had the opportunity of checking out one of the MatrixBrute prototypes so far left a positive feedback about the build quality.
-
A long video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TrZIZRyQXA
I guess they're celebrating, not with a shot glass, but with a lava lamp.
-
A long video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TrZIZRyQXA
I guess they're celebrating, not with a shot glass, but with a lava lamp.
Maybe there will be a lot of early adopters making rash decisions and I can snag a Moog Sub37 for cheap... :)
-
This is a bit much talking instead of playing. What also strikes me is how uncompelling all those MatrixBrute sound examples are. I've heard better examples in some of the unfortunately noisy NAMM videos. So far, it definitely looks better on paper. The sound of the last presentations have been more than meh.
-
This is a bit much talking instead of playing. What also strikes me is how uncompelling all those MatrixBrute sound examples are. I've heard better examples in some of the unfortunately noisy NAMM videos. So far, it definitely looks better on paper. The sound of the last presentations have been more than meh.
I'm glad someone else said it... largely unimpressed by this. Seeing one live may change my opinion, but this seems like a good quality recording -- so I don't think it is the recording quality.
-
Well, I also said that as someone who liked the MiniBrute for its own sound. So I'm assuming they must be doing something wrong here or don't wanna spoil the official announcement. But then, they should wait with demos like this.
-
That video is awful, how not to sell a synth!
It's got to sound as good as a minibrute and then some more with the extras, very strange.
-
I listened to only the first few minutes of that video. It seemed far too boring, and I found the lava lamp more interesting. Besides, for some reason, I just can't get enthusiastic about the Matrixbrute. It has the architecture that I would normally like, but the appearance annoys me. It looks like a glorified cell phone, rather than a musical instrument. I would expect to turn it on and immediately get a call from a telemarketer.
-
Okay, this one contains more audio examples: https://youtu.be/ru2quYHKXp4?t=5m53s (https://youtu.be/ru2quYHKXp4?t=5m53s)
-
Okay, this one contains more audio examples: https://youtu.be/ru2quYHKXp4?t=5m53s (https://youtu.be/ru2quYHKXp4?t=5m53s)
I'm not impressed, but I think at this point I may just be biased against the brand. So take that with a grain of salt. But to me, it just doesn't sound like a 3 VCO synth.
My 2¢
-
Okay, this one contains more audio examples: https://youtu.be/ru2quYHKXp4?t=5m53s (https://youtu.be/ru2quYHKXp4?t=5m53s)
I'm not impressed, but I think at this point I may just be biased against the brand. So take that with a grain of salt. But to me, it just doesn't sound like a 3 VCO synth.
My 2¢
Weird, isn't it? I think the same without any bias against the brand.
-
Okay, this one contains more audio examples: https://youtu.be/ru2quYHKXp4?t=5m53s (https://youtu.be/ru2quYHKXp4?t=5m53s)
I'm not impressed, but I think at this point I may just be biased against the brand. So take that with a grain of salt. But to me, it just doesn't sound like a 3 VCO synth.
My 2¢
Weird, isn't it? I think the same without any bias against the brand.
I think the same with a bias in favor of the brand. It sounds like a MicroBrute, which isn't necessarily a bad thing when it's a $300 instrument; but it's Voyager territory this close to the sun.
-
Okay, this one contains more audio examples: https://youtu.be/ru2quYHKXp4?t=5m53s (https://youtu.be/ru2quYHKXp4?t=5m53s)
I'm not impressed, but I think at this point I may just be biased against the brand. So take that with a grain of salt. But to me, it just doesn't sound like a 3 VCO synth.
My 2¢
Weird, isn't it? I think the same without any bias against the brand.
I think the same with a bias in favor of the brand. It sounds like a MicroBrute, which isn't necessarily a bad thing when it's a $300 instrument; but it's Voyager territory this close to the sun.
Chysn and Paul, you guys just made me laugh. And confirmed my bias at the same time!!!
Thank you both!
-
That last video is awful as well, I think we need to see a video from someone with some taste!
-
That last video is awful as well, I think we need to see a video from someone with some taste!
Finally... Someone with some taste! http://bit.ly/1Uhdk1S
-
Oops! That link is to Dave's introduction to the Prophet 6.
-
Oops! That link it to Dave's introduction to the Prophet 6.
Yes, it was. ;)
-
Oh, sorry. I thought it was by accident. So, what's your point? I'd agree, that's an excellent brief introduction to the Prophet-6.
-
Oh, sorry. I thought it was by accident. So, what's your point? I'd agree, that's an excellent brief introduction to the Prophet-6.
The point is: there are folks out there who know how to do a damned good demo of of a synth.
Amos from Moog is another.
Katsunori Ujiie is yet another.... His are so good that you can follow along without speaking Japanese.
-
Gotcha. I'd add that one important quality in an instrument demo is succinctness. I can't stand having to listen to someone blather on and on about every little thing. I prefer minimal talk and maximum use of the instrument - yet, even then, not for too long. I'd say ten to fifteen minutes is right.
-
Gotcha. I'd add that one important quality in an instrument demo is succinctness. I can't stand having to listen to someone blather on and on about every little thing. I prefer minimal talk and maximum use of the instrument - yet, even then, not for too long. I'd say ten to fifteen minutes is right.
Totally agree. Notice that in 4 minutes 45 seconds, Dave tells you everything you need to know about the Prophet 6 AND gives you some great sounding examples.
-
I also think Dave's introduction to the Prophet 12 is still one of the best demos of it. Even his selection of sounds is excellent.
-
… AND gives you some great sounding examples.
That's Peter Dyer.
-
Yes, on the P-6 video. But the P-12 videos are all Dave.
-
Yes, on the P-6 video. But the P-12 one is all Dave.
Regardless of who it is, the point is that DSI, as a company, produced an succinct, informative product video.
So far, Arturia, as a company, hasn't produced anything close to what would be required to make me want to part with some cash. Could be the product. Could be the video. Regardless, it's the company.
-
Regardless of who it is, the point is that DSI, as a company, produced an succinct, informative product video.
So far, Arturia, as a company, hasn't produced anything close to what would be required to make me want to part with some cash. Could be the product. Could be the video. Regardless, it's the company.
Well, to be fair: There hasn't been an official video from Arturia yet, you could compare the DSI video to. There only has been a teaser that had been released around Winter NAMM and which doesn't quite count as the instrument was still unfinished.
-
Regardless of who it is, the point is that DSI, as a company, produced an succinct, informative product video.
So far, Arturia, as a company, hasn't produced anything close to what would be required to make me want to part with some cash. Could be the product. Could be the video. Regardless, it's the company.
Well, to be fair: There hasn't been an official video from Arturia yet, you could compare the DSI video to. There only has been a teaser that had been released around Winter NAMM and which doesn't quite count as the instrument was still unfinished.
Hmm... wasn't Dave's videos of the P6 and P12 the first to show / demonstrate / tease the products?
-
Regardless of who it is, the point is that DSI, as a company, produced an succinct, informative product video.
So far, Arturia, as a company, hasn't produced anything close to what would be required to make me want to part with some cash. Could be the product. Could be the video. Regardless, it's the company.
Well, to be fair: There hasn't been an official video from Arturia yet, you could compare the DSI video to. There only has been a teaser that had been released around Winter NAMM and which doesn't quite count as the instrument was still unfinished.
Hmm... wasn't Dave's videos of the P6 and P12 the first to show / demonstrate / tease the products?
Yes, but you are comparing apples to oranges if you juxtapose it with Arturia's teaser from January. Take a look at their video about the Synclavier plug-in. That's the kind of format that fits your category. I'm sure they'll do a comparable video for the MatrixBrute as well, once they know for sure when to release it.
-
Regardless of who it is, the point is that DSI, as a company, produced an succinct, informative product video.
So far, Arturia, as a company, hasn't produced anything close to what would be required to make me want to part with some cash. Could be the product. Could be the video. Regardless, it's the company.
Yeah, I should have said that another way... If your product isn't ready for a rock star demonstration, don't do demonstrations. First Impressions.
So compare the Arturia's willingness to do demonstrations with a product that isn't ready (or perhaps its the demonstrator who isn't ready, but regardless, my point is the same) versus DSI's choosing to wait until they have the product they want to demo ready for the first impression they want to create.
These types of choices are demonstrative of the mindset in a company that effects everything Design to Marketing to Manufacturing. It's rush to market vs careful product development. And this is why DSI, Moog and Oberheim have always made quality gear.
Well, to be fair: There hasn't been an official video from Arturia yet, you could compare the DSI video to. There only has been a teaser that had been released around Winter NAMM and which doesn't quite count as the instrument was still unfinished.
Hmm... wasn't Dave's videos of the P6 and P12 the first to show / demonstrate / tease the products?
Yes, but you are comparing apples to oranges if you juxtapose it with Arturia's teaser from January. Take a look at their video about the Synclavier plug-in. That's the kind of format that fits your category. I'm sure they'll do a comparable video for the MatrixBrute as well, once they know for sure when to release it.
-
Yeah, I should have said that another way... If your product isn't ready for a rock star demonstration, don't do demonstrations. First Impressions.
So compare the Arturia's willingness to do demonstrations with a product that isn't ready (or perhaps its the demonstrator who isn't ready, but regardless, my point is the same) versus DSI's choosing to wait until they have the product they want to demo ready for the first impression they want to create.
These types of choices are demonstrative of the mindset in a company that effects everything Design to Marketing to Manufacturing. It's rush to market vs careful product development. And this is why DSI, Moog and Oberheim have always made quality gear.
There are industry rules. One is: Have something to show at Winter NAMM, which is what they did. Plus: they were not as far into the development process as DSI were when they announced the Prophet 12 or the Prophet-6. One can regret that, but that doesn't change anything about the pressure to come up with something at NAMM. It's not that the Prophet-5 was a fully working unit when it was introduced at NAMM in 1978 - it barely made it so to speak. And there are dozens of these examples, especially when a company does something for the first time, and this is the first time, Arturia plan to release a hardware synth of this size.
Oberheim presented the Eurorack SEMs at Winter NAMM 2015 and 2016. Both times with different designs, both times with different outlooks about the prospective module line-up (the first time, it was mentioned that there are going to be four modules, the second time only two modules were announced).
Plus: I'm sure that a company that's developing a synthesizer on the scale of a MatrixBrute will eventually also produce according marketing materials once it's release date is set. It's also not that they made a secret out of not being fully done yet.
As for the quality: No one can assume anything yet with regard to the MatrixBrute. All I've heard from the few people who actually saw one in person is that the build quality appeared to be sturdy. Everything beyond that is pure speculation currently.
-
Okay, this one contains more audio examples: https://youtu.be/ru2quYHKXp4?t=5m53s (https://youtu.be/ru2quYHKXp4?t=5m53s)
I'm not impressed, but I think at this point I may just be biased against the brand. So take that with a grain of salt. But to me, it just doesn't sound like a 3 VCO synth.
My 2¢
Weird, isn't it? I think the same without any bias against the brand.
Well at least we agree it doesn't sound like an impressive 3 VCO mono-synth. Bias or not. ;)
-
Like I said, I have no reason to be biased. I made no bad experience with the MiniBrute I used to own.
As for demos: Those are always hugely dependent on who's doing them and his or her stylistic preferences. It's a bit like that with presets as well. Many people, for example, complained about the Prophet '08s presets and how they would all sound awful, outdated, and generally showed that the synth was not good at anything in particular when compared to a VST. Now, as we all know that was obviously bollocks (whether one liked its particular sound character or not), but in this case the first impression via the presets also didn't work towards the synth's advantage. As usual, nothing has really changed in how a synth should be approached in order to find out if it's for you: try one out in person. Just because YouTube and SoundCloud exist doesn't mean that these media can be substitutes.
-
Well at least we agree it doesn't sound like an impressive 3 VCO mono-synth. Bias or not. ;)
With regard to about 10% of the video, yes. I have to slightly revise my statement because I realized that he's using only one oscillator most of the time.
-
I think the only positive thing about the videos so far is that it may make it easier to get one at launch.
On paper the specs look very good, you get a couple of extra oscillators over the Minibrute and an additional more "normal" filter, some FX, a sequencer, a mod matrix, loads of CV connections and an extra envelope. All packaged up in what I think looks like a pretty nice synth.
With the mini brute as long as you don't start arseing around with the metllizer or brute factor the OSCs can sound pretty nice, it would be nice to have a demo just using basic OSC shapes (not overdriven) with the new filter.
I really hope this doesn't go the same way as the Origin, a fantastic synth that was doomed by the initial release and the general Arturia hatred thats seems prevalent, possibly all of their own making.
-
... and the general Arturia hatred thats seems prevalent, possibly all of their own making.
"the general Arturia hatred thats seems prevalent" - I wouldn't say "hatred", more like "indifference"
"all of their own making" - no doubt
I'm just waiting for this thread to get to the inevitable MatrixBrute / Pro 2 comparison. :)
-
If you look at the prices in the uk there are straight competitors:
Pro 2 : 1450
Matrix brute: 1539
Modal 001: 1600
Arturias main selling point I guess over the other two synths above is the VCOs for the analog purists, very good CV support, and the nicely implemented mod matrix panel.
I would also guess the Pro 2 and the 001 would last a lot longer than the Matrixbrute, and both companies have an extremely good reputation for support, something Arturia could only hope for.
-
With the mini brute as long as you don't start arseing around with the metllizer or brute factor the OSCs can sound pretty nice, it would be nice to have a demo just using basic OSC shapes (not overdriven) with the new filter.
That's a matter of taste. The Metallizer and Brute Factor clearly belong to the ingredients that made the MiniBrute's unique sound stand out. They're of course not for those, who want a Minimoog-like lead, but that doesn't make these features worse.
As for the general criticism about the video presentations, I'd say: make it better. Especially in the last one, much of the basic functionality has been covered while still demonstrating a bit of tweaking (showing that one is enjoying the instrument and gets carried away from time to time). It's also a one take shot, no major editing whatsoever (I've seen more cuts or plenty of cuts at all in videos that are not even one third of this one's length). Even if you're on the development team, it's not that easy to just set up a presentation like this.
I'm also not sure why it's so obvious that the MatrixBrute is competing with a Pro 2 or a 001. The latter are hybrid synths that may address a different audience altogether. Sound-wise, these synths don't seem to have that much in common with the Pro 2 and the 001 certainly being closer to each other. As for the modulation matrix, it certainly comes closest to the Pro 2, but that's about it.
-
With the mini brute as long as you don't start arseing around with the metllizer or brute factor the OSCs can sound pretty nice, it would be nice to have a demo just using basic OSC shapes (not overdriven) with the new filter.
That's a matter of taste. The Metallizer and Brute Factor clearly belong to the ingredients that made the MiniBrute's unique sound stand out. They're of course not for those, who want a Minimoog-like lead, but that doesn't make these features worse.
Exactly, thats why I think it is a good idea to do a demo using basic OSCs and the ladder filter. The matrixbute I guess is something they want to appeal to the minimoog brigade.
I'm also not sure why it's so obvious that the MatrixBrute is competing with a Pro 2 or a 001. The latter are hybrid synths that may address a different audience altogether. Sound-wise, these synths don't seem to have that much in common with the Pro 2 and the 001 certainly being closer to each other. As for the modulation matrix, it certainly comes closest to the Pro 2, but that's about it.
Mono synths, similar pricing. I guess the P2 and Matrixbrute are the nearest, but I would put that down to the CVs as much as the mod matrix. A nod to the eurorack brigade.
-
Mono synths, similar pricing.
Well, I get that part of course. I'm just not sure how well that works beyond theory.
-
Mono synths, similar pricing.
Well, I get that part of course. I'm just not sure how well that works beyond theory.
I agree with Paul... I'm not sure how much "cross-modulation" ( :) ) there is between the Pro 2 crowd and the MatrixBrute crowd. I love my Pro2, but wouldn't consider a MatrixBrute. [but my bias is well documented]
-
Maybe it's just me, a have a P2 and want an 001 and matrixbrute :)
If you go to the Devil website GeerSlutz the 001 and pro 2 are compared quite a bit so I guess some others think the same is me. We will have to wait for the MatrixBrute to see if the same thing happens, I'm guessing because of the CV connectivity it will.
-
Dunno, I think the Pro 2 and the 001 are more obvious competitors - sound-wise mostly.
To me, the Arturia synths always reminded me of a sound that no other company would offer, something old, a bit like EMS. So for me Arturia would reach their goal already if the MatrixBrute captures something of that 1960s radiophonic flair on one side of its sonic continuum. I can't speak for its full 3 oscillator sound yet, but I do really like the sound of the analog effects.
Specs-wise, all three synths share a complex modulation matrix and cv in and out connectivity. Their common ground is certainly that each of them is conceptualized to be at the core of a modular setup. Sonically, I rather see the Pro 2 and the 001 move into one direction, while the MatrixBrute turns the opposite way.
-
Some trivia: I find it funny that Axel Hartmann had to pull back the Arturia team so that the MatrixBrute wouldn't look like a Voyager in the end. He mentions this around the end of this podcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFvp3mD3XnY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFvp3mD3XnY)
-
Some trivia: I find it funny that Axel Hartmann had to pull back the Arturia team so that the MatrixBrute wouldn't look like a Voyager in the end. He mentions this around the end of this podcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFvp3mD3XnY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFvp3mD3XnY)
I'm surprised the Moog Sub 37 hasn't snuck into this conversation yet. AT $1499 MSRP (less if you have a friend at your local music store -- they have room to discount these), it's clearly in this category....
And (I know the Arturia folks will have something to say about this comment) sonically, I think it blows the Arturia out of the water -- even as just a 2 OSC (plus Sub). And it's modulation routings are deep -- perhaps not quite as deep as the Pro 2 / 001 / MatrixBrute, but nothing paltry for sure.
Now consider this, with the Sub 37 at $1499, you could add to it a Mother-32, and still be in the price range of the other synths (all at or around $1999). Eager to hear you guys thoughts on that one....
-
I'm surprised the Moog Sub 37 hasn't snuck into this conversation yet. AT $1499 MSRP (less if you have a friend at your local music store -- they have room to discount these), it's clearly in this category....
Almost. But the one thing the Sub 37 can't be is the centerpiece for a modular setup because it lacks CV outputs. And although the modulation routings are deep for a Moog in this price category, the other three simply give you more options, which relativizes the lower price. Something that might not be irrelevant to some players is that the MatrixBrute offers you a 4 octave keyboard instead of the 37 keys you usually find in this category (with the exception of the Pro 2).
And sure, Moogs sound moog-ish to various degrees (i.e. not always like a Minimoog or a modular, but they give you the flavor), but that alone might not be what everybody's after - neither those who want to go fully retro, nor those who rather want to try something different. If I take a MiniBrute as an example, I'd say it sounds both more vintage than any current affordable Moog, but also way beyond that due to parameters other synths simply don't offer (whether you personally like the BruteFactor or Metallizer or not).
-
I told you there's more to come in terms of videos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neFvthrKOA8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neFvthrKOA8)
-
I told you there's more to come in terms of videos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neFvthrKOA8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neFvthrKOA8)
That was educational.
-
I told you there's more to come in terms of videos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neFvthrKOA8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neFvthrKOA8)
That was educational.
Haters gonna hate. ;D
-
I told you there's more to come in terms of videos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neFvthrKOA8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neFvthrKOA8)
That was educational.
Haters gonna hate. ;D
At least I'm upfront about it. :)
And it's not like I'm on the Arturia forum...
-
At least I'm upfront about it. :)
And it's not like I'm on the Arturia forum...
You've been upfront about it a couple of times by now. The point is that if you feel obliged to dislike everything Arturia does, then you don't have to participate in a thread about an instrument that is being released by Arturia - especially after you've alreay made it unequivocally clear that you're not interested in any of their products on principle.
Secondly, yes this is a DSI forum, but this subforum in particular is also called "Other Hardware/Software," which has been created to share information about what other synth manufacturers are developing. None of the threads here are created to impose an instrument on anybody, or to sell other manufacturer's instruments to anyone. This part of the forum exists for purely informational reasons. Plus: most of us tend to own gear from more than just one manufacturer. The fact that we all share a passion for DSI gear doesn't necessarily mean that we're automatically rejecting instruments by other manufacturers.
-
At least I'm upfront about it. :)
And it's not like I'm on the Arturia forum...
You've been upfront about it a couple of times by now. The point is that if you feel obliged to dislike everything Arturia does, then you don't have to participate in a thread about an instrument that is being released by Arturia - especially after you've alreay made it unequivocally clear that you're not interested in any of their products on principle.
Secondly, yes this is a DSI forum, but this subforum in particular is also called "Other Hardware/Software," which has been created to share information about what other synth manufacturers are developing. None of the threads here are created to impose an instrument on anybody, or to sell other manufacturer's instruments to anyone. This part of the forum exists for purely informational reasons. Plus: most of us tend to own gear from more than just one manufacturer. The fact that we all share a passion for DSI gear doesn't necessarily mean that we're automatically rejecting instruments by other manufacturers.
Apologies. :)
-
A filter demo with a P-5 lurking in the background: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huJdpnQ2QZE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huJdpnQ2QZE)
-
It certainly sounds great!
-
New one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJ3ctLtDc6Y (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJ3ctLtDc6Y)
-
New examples by Yves Usson I believe. No talking, only playing:
http://fr.audiofanzine.com/synthe-analogique/arturia/matrixbrute/forums/t.612034,commentaires-sur-la-news-namm-arturia-annonce-le-matrixbrute,post.8909514.html (http://fr.audiofanzine.com/synthe-analogique/arturia/matrixbrute/forums/t.612034,commentaires-sur-la-news-namm-arturia-annonce-le-matrixbrute,post.8909514.html)
-
Arghh they need the flash player, this takes me through the normal Adobe nightmare of "Flash is out of date", "Install Flash", "flash cannot be installed on this computer" cycle.
Are they any good?
-
Arghh they need the flash player, this takes me through the normal Adobe nightmare of "Flash is out of date", "Install Flash", "flash cannot be installed on this computer" cycle.
Same here. And then you get Google Chrome, whether you want it or not.
-
Are they any good?
The best I've seen so far. They demonstrate rather traditional sounds - even the more experimental patches do rather resemble "vintage experimental" if that makes sense (think of typical EMS sequences).
-
Do the problems still occur with these direct links?
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4nmzsq_matrixbrute-test-1_music
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4nn1yy_matrixbrute-test-2_music
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4nnb1y_matrxbrute-test-3_music
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4nq5fw_matrixbrute-test-5_music
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4nxsrx_split-mode-sequencer_music
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4nxq8q_split-mode-arpeggio_music
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4nsgnu_soundscapes_music
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4nqzo2_sequencing-fun_music
-
Thanks Paul, those seem to be working. Having a look now...
-
Sounds pretty nice to me.
-
Just wanted to chime in here . Really flattered to see a few of my videos referenced in here (in a positive way even though they are mostly talk and less playing).
Recently had the chance to play with a near production unit at knobcon.
I'll give some of my impressions here. 1) I really wanted a demo with a bunch of modular yet they didn't have it set up like that, at a modular convention!
That being said I was really curious about the final filter design. It wasn't done at namm. But here it was. I recently received a EAR model 41 (a Eurorack 4 pole Steiner filter) that sounds very unique and is really cool. I spoke with the designers of both matrix brute and the model 41 and they each came to a 4 pole Steiner design in totally different methods.
I can say the matrix brute Steiner sounds very nice and at the same time not at all like the model 41. The MB resonance still has that raspy growl and now can also get goey when modulated. The ladder design no longer has that horrible bass drop out like it did at namm. The two filters really compliment each other.
I was a bit worried about the vco sound as I wasn't sold that the MB oscillators had the low end brunt that something like moog does (dsi tends to not have that grunt either)... fortunately while definitely not moog like, they do have a very nice thick quality to them. Very much VCO and not stiff sounding. I was bouncing between it and the deepmind 12 . Two very very different but equally exciting boards. The MB HAD A unruly attitude about it that I rarely hear in new synths these days.
The matrix is awesome for setting up modulation source and destination. The macros are easy to use. Once you are familiar with the layout it quickly becomes the most hands on synth you could imagine. EVERYTHING has a dedicated control... no menu diving to set a filter modulation. No matter how obscure .
I'm super excited to get my hands on one at home.i will say they do need more proper demos, the tutorial that they just released is a step in the right direction though.
-
Hi Flux! Great to have you on board. And thank you for your Knobcon report on the MatrixBrute.
I agree about the demos. It seems like they needed a bit of a warm-up. The latter ones are definitely more informative and offer a deeper insight.
I don't know, though, whether the MatrixBrute needs to be compared to synths like the Minimoog in the first place. I kind of think of it as a fully analog version of the Pro 2 (vast modulation options, center of one's modular setup, etc.), and a luxury version of those analogs that are no Moogs or Oberheims, but rather cover the ground of everything from the MS-20, some early Yamahas and Rolands, up to the MiniBrute itself (altogether: the more fizzy sounding ones) with a bit of EMS character thrown in due to the particular sound of the analog effect section and that particular matrix.
I always thought that the sine sub oscillator of the MiniBrute is really good for basses though - maybe not in terms of Moog thickness, but definitely in terms of single oscillator precision basses.
-
yeah I was talking with my friends earlier today about what matrix brute has as competition or comparison... I brought up the MS20 as well and the pro2... very different but closer than just a voyager . voyager XL gets a bit closer ... the dual filter aspects of the Pro2 really are awesome (so wish that was in my P12) and the CV aspects of the pro2 are such a great selling point. so in these regards the matrix brute gets a bit closer. but the form factors are so different that lets be honest, someone in the market for one certainly might not be in the market for the other.
so here is a question I posed to my buddies earlier today that I will ask here. Sure there are things that are a bit boutique like the Vermona and the Dominion... but what is the future holding for really ambitious mono synths like the matrix brute? with the Midas Deepmind 12 on the horizon and Korgs large format poly on the way, with certainly more companies to follow (does system 8 not count because its digital? I think it might count considering the reactions at knobcon) .... affordably KNOBY poly is on the rise. will there be a world for such mono synths in the future?
also with the massive influx of poly competition... will this force DSI to really challenge the norm once again to come up with a design really groundbreaking? I see a whole new design style on the horizon.
-
What is the future holding for really ambitious mono synths like the matrix brute? with the Midas Deepmind 12 on the horizon and Korgs large format poly on the way, with certainly more companies to follow (does system 8 not count because its digital? I think it might count considering the reactions at knobcon) .... affordably KNOBY poly is on the rise. will there be a world for such mono synths in the future?
Also with the massive influx of poly competition... will this force DSI to really challenge the norm once again to come up with a design really groundbreaking? I see a whole new design style on the horizon.
Good questions. I think the main mono synth ground is fairly well covered between the new Minimoog Model D and the Pro 2. Certainly there's still room for something else, but I don't think there's room for much else. The Matrixbrute seems to fit somewhere in the middle. But it seems to me that we can't be too far away from the saturation point, especially with analog synthesizers. How many variations on a theme can be maintained at once? I wonder about this, even regarding just the DSI range, never mind the synthesizer field as a whole. I would expect that things would eventually level off, with a few classics standing. I think the Poly Evolver might go down as one such classic, except that only a rather small number was produced.
Another interesting question would be, Which instruments do we think will eventually arrive at "classic" stature?
-
yeah I was talking with my friends earlier today about what matrix brute has as competition or comparison... I brought up the MS20 as well and the pro2... very different but closer than just a voyager . voyager XL gets a bit closer ... the dual filter aspects of the Pro2 really are awesome (so wish that was in my P12) and the CV aspects of the pro2 are such a great selling point. so in these regards the matrix brute gets a bit closer. but the form factors are so different that lets be honest, someone in the market for one certainly might not be in the market for the other.
Sure. It basically comes down to what one is aiming for sonically (after all, a Voyager, a Pro 2, and a MatrixBrute all sound different), and whether the analog vs digital debate plays any role.
so here is a question I posed to my buddies earlier today that I will ask here. Sure there are things that are a bit boutique like the Vermona and the Dominion... but what is the future holding for really ambitious mono synths like the matrix brute? with the Midas Deepmind 12 on the horizon and Korgs large format poly on the way, with certainly more companies to follow (does system 8 not count because its digital? I think it might count considering the reactions at knobcon) .... affordably KNOBY poly is on the rise. will there be a world for such mono synths in the future?
also with the massive influx of poly competition... will this force DSI to really challenge the norm once again to come up with a design really groundbreaking? I see a whole new design style on the horizon.
Generally, I'd say - and I think the somewhat saturated market shows that - that the synthesizer has reached a point, where its history is basically written, just like an electric guitar or other now classic instruments. There is still a bit space for a couple of refined designs and more esoteric enhancements, innovations that mostly take place in the realm of software and Eurorack, but all in all I'd say that this is basically it. Everything else is rather a matter of recombinations or permutations to speak in mathematical terms. I do believe, though, that the market is still open for alternative input devices, such as the Linnstrument, the ROLI stuff, or the Continuum, until the keyboard eventually becomes one input source amongst many others and gradually loses its particular significance.
Whether a complex and self-contained (despite CV connectivity) unit like the MatrixBrute will be successful highly depends on how flexible a customer wants it, and how much he or she is willing to spend. Self-contained modular systems like the Pro 2 or the MatrixBrute definitely come in handy from the perspective of pricing alone, because the Eurorack equivalent of those kind of instruments would certainly be a tad more expensive, if not at least twice as much. If money plays no role, the only advantage left may be a handful of input devices that come with the unit, but that's about it I think, since a once assembled Eurorack system is not any less self-contained than everything else. It only has the advantage to be reconfigured at any time in the future. On the other hand it has to be said that it takes a lot of time to fully explore every little detail and option on a synth like the Pro 2 for example. One doesn't necessarily have to speak of lifetime puchases, but if someone gets bored with such synths after a year, something is seriously going wrong in the approach towards it.
I'm not sure whether affordable knoby poly synths are on the rise, as particular one unit, the Prophet '08, has been around for at least eight years by now, which is also why I don't get the hype around the Behringer synth. DSI simply did it before and the Prophet '08 is still a strong competitor next to the DeepMind - at least in terms of modulation options and sonic flexibility. The same counts for the System-8, where the real novelty is the advanced modelling of analog circuit behaviour and of course the option to load other synth models into the dedicated hardware.
Whether the introduction of more and more poly synths will affect DSI in some shape or form will have to be seen. But I don't see many problems for them, as they positioned themselves in the higher midrange price market by now with companies like Modal Electronics being one step higher on the pricing ladder. In general, it makes not much sense for DSI to even try to compete with companies like Korg or Behringer for reasons of production resources alone, so they better keep on focusing on an audience that is willing to pay a little more than the big budget driven manufacturers. I see no problem in doing so, but then I also don't see a huge possibility for developing anything truly groundbreaking anymore (see above), which could really harm a company like DSI. It's rather the opposite situation in my opinion, since an instrument like the Prophet 12 is certainly more adventurous in terms of sound design possibilities than a System-8, which almost exclusively benefits from a lingering nostalgic fever and the fact that the typical Roland sound of the 1970s and 1980s hasn't been around for a while - at least not in an affordable format.
All in all I'd say that the space that's left for innovation with regard to poly synths lies within offering something different, not necessarily by inventing a new sort of technology. One option could be to offer a more west coast inspired architecture within the poly synth format, like something that leaves the traditional subtractive architecture behind completely. For example, a poly synth could offer complex wave generators, wave folders, and spectral analyzers instead of VCOs and filters, and so on.
-
Generally, I'd say - and I think the somewhat saturated market shows that - that the synthesizer has reached a point, where its history is basically written, just like an electric guitar or other now classic instruments. There is still a bit space for a couple of refined designs and more esoteric enhancements, innovations that mostly take place in the realm of software and Eurorack, but all in all I'd say that this is basically it. Everything else is rather a matter of recombinations or permutations to speak in mathematical terms. I do believe, though, that the market is still open for alternative input devices, such as the Linnstrument, the ROLI stuff, or the Continuum, until the keyboard eventually becomes one input source amongst many others and gradually loses its particular significance.
I would agree with this and I think many people could take this claim in a bad way, as something depressing, as if all the fascination and excitement were now over. But I personally think it's a good thing that, at least regarding analog synthesis, the intensive research and development phase is substantially over. I'm sure some innovation still remains for the future, but that some leveling off is to be expected allows the synthesizer to be applied to its ends and purposes. Some will use it to make sounds and others will use it to make music. But as long as it's still substantially evolving and changing, it's more likely to remain a curiosity.
A constant state of change is a superficial state, and a degree of consistency is not stagnation, but maturity. I like the idea of the instrument having reached its maturity and synthesists with it. It would be a pleasure to see this instrument settle down and become less of a toy and more of a tool. Which is to say that a high degree of constant research and development on an instrument that is constantly evolving, combined with a market that is ever introducing innovations from various companies, leaves the synthesizer in a state of limbo. Personally, I much prefer a more static state, because it lends itself to a less distracted use of the instrument. What I really dislike is the common hyper mentality of constantly wanting the latest thing, the newest thing, and a market that is more than happy to indulge us. If one is persistently in the state of dreaming about more equipment, selling what one has to afford it, and then making one demo after another of the last acquired gear, then a main casualty is music. Hence, if you type in the word "synthesizer" on YouTube, you'll find a zillion demonstration videos of parameter tweaking, but a relatively miniscule number of complete musical compositions. So, in the interests of mature synthesizer music, I'd be happy to see the synthesizer reach a point of normalcy.
-
I would agree with this and I think many people could take this claim in a bad way, as something depressing, as if all the fascination and excitement were now over.
Right, but I'm totally with you in as much I also regard the current state of synthesizers as a collection of tools that have reached the stage of maturity rather than a situation in which any hope is lost. So in that sense, my original post was neither meant to be provocative nor an outlet for mourning. I think it's good that we now have a plethora of very different synthesizers available, from analog to digital and from affordable to boutique or high end, from self-contained units to modular systems. The key for productivity lies in the coexistence of many different formats and also a non-ideological approach towards different types of synthesis, so that we can eventually move past such debates like "east coast vs west coast," or "analog vs digital." And times have never been any better for that.
-
I would agree with this and I think many people could take this claim in a bad way, as something depressing, as if all the fascination and excitement were now over.
Right, but I'm totally with you in as much I also regard the current state of synthesizers as a collection of tools that have reached the stage of maturity rather than a situation in which any hope is lost. So in that sense, my original post was neither meant to be provocative nor an outlet for mourning. I think it's good that we now have a plethora of very different synthesizers available, from analog to digital and from affordable to boutique or high end, from self-contained units to modular systems. The key for productivity lies in the coexistence of many different formats and also a non-ideological approach towards different types of synthesis, so that we can eventually move past such debates like "east coast vs west coast," or "analog vs digital." And times have never been any better for that.
Likewise, I was fully and happily agreeing with you but also imagining how many synthesisists would take your comments.
Like no other instrument I'm aware of, the synthesizer is held captive by a state of perpetual "newness" that has it forever being re-introduced, due to this new feature or that new feature. In fact, many of us could name the heroes of "demodom" - from Roland, to Korg, to Moog, to such general "demoders" as Nick Batt. Again, this is not helpful where music/art is concerned and over-emphasizes the market as almost being an end itself. You can easily find yourself spending much more time watching such demonstrations than making actual music on your own instruments! This is absurd.
The comparison may be silly to some, but look up YouTube videos on organ, harpsichord, and piano. You'll find a handful of historical talks and a few describing the mechanical aspects of the instruments, but the vast vast majority will be of high-quality music and performances. I'd like to see the synthesizer approach, at least to some degree, such a mature state.
-
Likewise, I wasn't starting an argument. I was fully and happily agreeing with you but also imagining how many synthesisists would take your comments.
I know, I know. It wasn't exclusively addressed at you.
Like no other instrument I'm aware of, the synthesizer is held captive by a state of perpetual "newness" that has it forever being re-introduced, due to this new feature or that new feature. In fact, many of us could name the heroes of "demodom" - from Roland, to Korg, to Moog, to such general "demoders" as Nick Batt. Again, this is not helpful where music/art is concerned and over-emphasizes the market as almost being an end itself. You can easily find yourself spending much more time watching such demonstrations than making actual music on your own instruments! This really is absurd.
The comparison may be silly to some, but look up YouTube videos on organ, harpsichord, and piano. You'll find a handful of historical talks and a few describing the mechanical aspects of the instruments, but the vast vast majority will be of high-quality music and performances. I'd like to see the synthesizer approach, at least to some degree, such a mature state.
If there had been YouTube between the 9th and the first half of the 20th century, there could have certainly been reviews about the different incarnations of organs, albeit rather every 50-100 years instead of every other week. ;D
Plus: The synthesizer is simply a different instrument. Some may use it in a traditional way, but it's not really conceptualized as a traditional instrument, because from a logical POV every sound you program equals one instrument in the traditional sense, but a whole synthesizer as such doesn't. On the level of emulations, it might come closest to the organ with its registers, although that doesn't move the latter an inch closer to a synth. It has simply to do with a different kind of complexity of electronic instruments compared to mechanical ones. A synthesizer sort of transcends mechanical limitations. More importantly though, the technological side has always been emphasized way more with regard to electonic instruments, which could be called the price for the freedom of sound shaping tools. It was Don Buchla's wish to make electronic instruments more accessible in terms of an intuitive use btw.
-
If there had been YouTube between the 9th and the first half of the 20th century, there could have certainly been reviews about the different incarnations of organs, albeit rather every 50-100 years instead of every other week. ;D
And I could have lived with a YouTube demo or two every 50-100 years! ;D
-
If there had been YouTube between the 9th and the first half of the 20th century, there could have certainly been reviews about the different incarnations of organs, albeit rather every 50-100 years instead of every other week. ;D
And I could have lived with a YouTube demo or two every 50-100 years! ;D
It would certainly be good for some people's wallets, but bad for business. ;)
We're getting way off topic though, so everybody back in line for MatrixBrute-related discussions only. I did split the "future classics" discussion off to a new thread.
-
(After all of that sophisticated discussion) I think I like the MatrixBrute. It has a lot of flexibility without having to break out the patch cables. The price is pretty reasonable (compared to the Moog Sub 37 and the Pro 2) and being able to choose between the Steiner Parker and ladder filters is pretty great.
-
Guess what's arriving tomorrow?
-
Congratulations. Surely you'll demo and comment on it.
-
Plenty of comments, some sound clips but no video :)
-
I'm really excited to hear your impressions of it. Looks like this crazy sound playground that one could get lost in for hours. It's everything I like about the Dave Smith synths -- hands on control, and powerful architectures.
-
It's arrived, sitting on table waiting to get it up to room temp, very cold after being in the van.
-
Nice touches, inlayed metal Arturia sign and milled metal Mod and Pitch:
-
And the bad bits, case around screen is damaged and bar above keyboard is scratched.
-
Nice track all done on MatrixBrute: https://youtu.be/pkTv7nvFMnI
-
It's arrived, sitting on table waiting to get it up to room temp, very cold after being in the van.
The back panel looks awesome - and it's quite clever of them to use the matrix buttons for patch selection!
-
It's growing on me. I'd love a more in depth demo from Mark Doty or something exploring all the features.
-
My favorite synth reviewer did a 30 minute review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9GfK-FOPIg
Now waiting for the English subtitles
-
But if BogTheDog wants to write about his early impressions I'd be all ears (or eyes?). ;D
-
I love this synth, you can get some mad stuff out of it.
Here is a clip with Osc 1 going through filter 1&2, osc 2 going through filter 2, osc 3 going through filter 1 and some noise through filter 2.
LFO 1 is modulating filter 1 and LFO2.
LFO 2 is modulating filter 1, LFO1, noise level and OSC 3.
LFO 3 is modulating LFO1, LFO2 and OSC3.
Mod wheel modulating the filters, noise level, LFOs and OSC 3 tuning.
I'm a terrible keyboard player but I like the sound of it:
https://soundcloud.com/bobthedog/matrixbrute-modulation
-
I love this synth, you can get some mad stuff out of it.
Here is a clip with Osc 1 going through filter 1&2, osc 2 going through filter 2, osc 3 going through filter 1 and some noise through filter 2.
LFO 1 is modulating filter 1 and LFO2.
LFO 2 is modulating filter 1, LFO1, noise level and OSC 3.
LFO 3 is modulating LFO1, LFO2 and OSC3.
Mod wheel modulating the filters, noise level, LFOs and OSC 3 tuning.
I'm a terrible keyboard player but I like the sound of it:
https://soundcloud.com/bobthedog/matrixbrute-modulation
Nice patch and great modulations! It definitely has character. Did you find a solution for the scratched parts?
-
Yeah, they offered a replacement when they have stock in march.
This week though I contacted them and said I would keep this one, I have got attached to it!
-
Ah, okay. How do you like the effects so far?
-
The effects are poor, not good for much apart from the fact they can be modulated.
I'm not a fan of the delays on the P12/P2 but they are better than the MatrixBrutes.
-
I always wondered if Eventide would ever partner up with a synth company where a synths internal effects are done by Eventide. Just imagine!
-
That's a great track track on a nice sounding synth! Too bad about the effects. I had hoped the analog delay might sound good. I'm kind of looking for an all in one keyboard because I have very limited space in my studio (ahem, guest room).
-
I always wondered if Eventide would ever partner up with a synth company where a synths internal effects are done by Eventide. Just imagine!
Well, Eventide just went Eurorack with their Space: http://www.synthtopia.com/content/2017/02/07/new-eventide-space-eurorack-module-by-ninstrument/
I would assume that more may follow in the future.
-
That's a great track track on a nice sounding synth! Too bad about the effects. I had hoped the analog delay might sound good. I'm kind of looking for an all in one keyboard because I have very limited space in my studio (ahem, guest room).
It doesn't sound bad but it is limited, there seems to be a total removal of high frequencies so it is pretty muffled. It's ok for filling things out a bit and for modulation effects.
-
I always wondered if Eventide would ever partner up with a synth company where a synths internal effects are done by Eventide. Just imagine!
Well, Eventide just went Eurorack with their Space: http://www.synthtopia.com/content/2017/02/07/new-eventide-space-eurorack-module-by-ninstrument/
I would assume that more may follow in the future.
That looks interesting, I wonder how much they will be.
-
I always wondered if Eventide would ever partner up with a synth company where a synths internal effects are done by Eventide. Just imagine!
Well, Eventide just went Eurorack with their Space: http://www.synthtopia.com/content/2017/02/07/new-eventide-space-eurorack-module-by-ninstrument/
I would assume that more may follow in the future.
That looks interesting, I wonder how much they will be.
There's no info on the price yet. Of course I also should have been more precise. It's not directly made by Eventide, rather a mod by Ninstrument. Here's a nice demonstration though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sQVnKINx7Q
-
Once you are familiar with the layout it quickly becomes the most hands on synth you could imagine. EVERYTHING has a dedicated control... no menu diving to set a filter modulation. No matter how obscure .
I'm super excited to get my hands on one at home.i will say they do need more proper demos, the tutorial that they just released is a step in the right direction though.
I'm going to jump in here and confirm this same thing. I had done zero "study" of it, walked up to one at SwitchedOn here in Austin last weekend, and it was all just right there. The fact that you could switch multiple modulations more or less simultaneously on the matrix (with dextrous fingers) was pretty awesome. I didn't get to play it through speakers or an amp, only really horrible headphones, so I can't say how the low end held up. But it at least sounded good enough through the horrible headphones. And as I stated in my Reddit write-up, within 10 minutes I could imagine myself taking ONLY the MB to a synth-nerd meetup to do a "modular" set, and improvising something good with no problem. The fact that I felt this way within *minutes* of laying hands on it is a massive testament to Arturia's thoughtfulness in the UI. I'm not sure I want one yet, but... it's definitely somewhere on my list. I'll wait to see reliability reports and pick one up 2nd hand though.
-
Korgs large format poly on the way
Have I missed an announcement? I don't recall any new Korg large format polys announced since September...?
-
I'm still on the fence about the Matrixbrute. It looks like a great synth and sounds nice but the sequencer has a lot of short comings.
Some MultiTimbrality would have been nice with multiple sequence , have each of the three oscillators on it's own patch/sequence.
Also how is there not a ratcheting feature on this thing?
All this seems to be able to be fixed with an OS update but still.
-
Also how is there not a ratcheting feature on this thing?
All this seems to be able to be fixed with an OS update but still.
Come over to the Arturia forums for more info on the ratchet feature in their sequencers and firmware update hell fun....
Ratchet on the BSP has been requested since it was released but not implemented. Could be because it's not a highly requested feature (mainly the want of one rather vocal owner), or it could be because they can't do it. I've done a little reading about ratcheting features on sequencers and it would seem not many ever did boast it, with more search results being attempts to create a ratcheting effect than talk of sequencers with a ratchet function.
I don't expect a ratcheting sequencer out of Arturia for any of their hardware anytime soon. I've even thought of using a gate track as a trigger for a delay to mimic ratcheting, that is how confident in them not adding a ratchet, but hey, don't let that from stopping you requesting it on their request boards.
-
Also how is there not a ratcheting feature on this thing?
All this seems to be able to be fixed with an OS update but still.
Come over to the Arturia forums for more info on the ratchet feature in their sequencers and firmware update hell fun....
Ratchet on the BSP has been requested since it was released but not implemented. Could be because it's not a highly requested feature (mainly the want of one rather vocal owner), or it could be because they can't do it. I've done a little reading about ratcheting features on sequencers and it would seem not many ever did boast it, with more search results being attempts to create a ratcheting effect than talk of sequencers with a ratchet function.
I don't expect a ratcheting sequencer out of Arturia for any of their hardware anytime soon. I've even thought of using a gate track as a trigger for a delay to mimic ratcheting, that is how confident in them not adding a ratchet, but hey, don't let that from stopping you requesting it on their request boards.
It just seems like such a no brainer for sequencers...especially in the analog realm. A lot of people use hardware sequencers for synths because of Tangerine Dream and ratcheting was a bit deal with that sound. It's on the Sub 37 and Oberheim Two Voice Pro have it...I figured on something like the Matrixbrute, chaining sequences/ratcheting...it should just be there.
-
Oddly enough, mere sequence chaining was an effort for them to implement. I agree, it should be apart of every step-sequencer. If Teenage Engineering can include it on their little machines, it can't be too hard.
-
Currently for ratcheting on the MB you need to make use of the long sequence length and set the clock divisor up to divide down the length.
See 1:35 onwards here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_J39LvMLDW0 for an example
-
Currently for ratcheting on the MB you need to make use of the long sequence length and set the clock divisor up to divide down the length.
See 1:35 onwards here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_J39LvMLDW0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_J39LvMLDW0) for an example
That gets cumbersome....
-
But it's the only way ;)
-
Wow watching that video makes me yearn for a MatrixBrute!
I've thought about how to do ratcheting without manually programming the notes in over a long sequence of short notes and I could only think of doing it with a CV gate running into the synth from an external sequencer, but that is essentially the same as programming the notes in on the MatrixBrute's own sequencer only using a second piece of equipment. But, the difference there is that one can make a longer sequence on the external sequencer and have the 'ratchet' occur on a much longer loop than that which the notes are running on, giving a more Tangerine Dream sort of effect.
-
Decided to take the plunge and ordered a MatrixBrute yesterday...arriving 8/1 (figured I'd post here to re-animate this old thread).
Did a ton of research before pulling the trigger. One of my biggest concerns was Arturia's history of questionable hardware quality. I looked at every online seller I could find that sells the MatrixBrute and nearly every single review was 5 stars...many specifically praising the build quality. Bought mine through Amazon and the 3rd party seller (EverythingMusic) added a free 1 year extended warranty which is a good feeling.
Wondering if anyone else here has bought one of these?
-
Decided to take the plunge and ordered a MatrixBrute yesterday...arriving 8/1 (figured I'd post here to re-animate this old thread).
Did a ton of research before pulling the trigger. One of my biggest concerns was Arturia's history of questionable hardware quality. I looked at every online seller I could find that sells the MatrixBrute and nearly every single review was 5 stars...many specifically praising the build quality. Bought mine through Amazon and the 3rd party seller (EverythingMusic) added a free 1 year extended warranty which is a good feeling.
Wondering if anyone else here has bought one of these?
I'm going to get heat for this....but I consider the MatrixBrute this generation's ARP 2600. It's very very good. A few things regarding the sequencer I'm not keen on but they can be updated via firmware should Arturia want to.
-
Mines still going strong and it is one from the first batch, build quality is pretty good. I had an issue with some of the slider caps and Arturia sent me some replacements but apart from that it's been solid.
-
Mines still going strong and it is one from the first batch, build quality is pretty good. I had an issue with some of the slider caps and Arturia sent me some replacements but apart from that it's been solid.
Good to hear. I just got mine unboxed and running yesterday. I've been putting it through it's paces and so far all is running as expected and is cosmetically perfect. Mine has a mfg date of 4/2017, is that a first batch like yours?
-
Mines 12/2016
Yours is still quite old though, there may be an issue with the oscillators phase locking which I think has been fixed in more recent ones.
If it bothers you I have the details of how to fix it if you PM me. (you need to be able to solder SMT resistors though)
-
Mines 12/2016
Yours is still quite old though, there may be an issue with the oscillators phase locking which I think has been fixed in more recent ones.
If it bothers you I have the details of how to fix it if you PM me. (you need to be able to solder SMT resistors though)
PM sent.
I got the Arturia MCC software up and running and I already have the latest firmware...though from reading the MxB forums it appears a new update may be coming soon - at least that's what everyone is hoping for ;)
-
I just joined the MatrixBrute club! I found a used one in like new condition for $1500 and it was close enough to pick up so no worry about shipping damage. I literally just got it home and did a quick test to confirm all the keys and knobs function and it puts forth a glorious sound!
What is the oscillator phasing issue mentioned? I’ll have to google for some examples to see if mine is effected. I have 7 days to return it if it has issues.
-
I just purchased one last week as well. I traded-in my MS20m module to get it. I loved the MS20m, but it always sounded like an MS20. The Matrixbrute is obviously much more versatile.
My first impressions are quite good. Build quality isn't lacking as far as I can tell. The sounds are great!
A couple criticisms I have are:
- I'm spoiled with the empty modulation slots in my P12, the MB only has 4. More would be nice.
- the sequencer could have a few more options (ratcheting, extra modulation tracks, separate tracks for each oscillator. )
All in all though, I'm quite happy.
-
I just purchased one last week as well. I traded-in my MS20m module to get it. I loved the MS20m, but it always sounded like an MS20. The Matrixbrute is obviously much more versatile.
My first impressions are quite good. Build quality isn't lacking as far as I can tell. The sounds are great!
A couple criticisms I have are:
- I'm spoiled with the empty modulation slots in my P12, the MB only has 4. More would be nice.
- the sequencer could have a few more options (ratcheting, extra modulation tracks, separate tracks for each oscillator. )
All in all though, I'm quite happy.
Lots of folks have been asking for sequencer improvements so maybe they’ll eventually add more features.
As for the mod matrix it may have only 4 freely assignable but the other columns cover the bases pretty well and I love having the immediate visual feedback of how mod matrix is wired without menu diving. I’m thrilled with mine.
-
I just purchased one last week as well. I traded-in my MS20m module to get it. I loved the MS20m, but it always sounded like an MS20. The Matrixbrute is obviously much more versatile.
My first impressions are quite good. Build quality isn't lacking as far as I can tell. The sounds are great!
A couple criticisms I have are:
- I'm spoiled with the empty modulation slots in my P12, the MB only has 4. More would be nice.
- the sequencer could have a few more options (ratcheting, extra modulation tracks, separate tracks for each oscillator. )
All in all though, I'm quite happy.
Don't ask Arturia for a ratcheting sequencer for the MatrixBrute, they gotta add it to the Beatstep Pro first! Heheh, it's an ongoing request from one user over on their forums.
-
I just purchased one last week as well. I traded-in my MS20m module to get it. I loved the MS20m, but it always sounded like an MS20. The Matrixbrute is obviously much more versatile.
My first impressions are quite good. Build quality isn't lacking as far as I can tell. The sounds are great!
A couple criticisms I have are:
- I'm spoiled with the empty modulation slots in my P12, the MB only has 4. More would be nice.
- the sequencer could have a few more options (ratcheting, extra modulation tracks, separate tracks for each oscillator. )
All in all though, I'm quite happy.
Don't ask Arturia for a ratcheting sequencer for the MatrixBrute, they gotta add it to the Beatstep Pro first! Heheh, it's an ongoing request from one user over on their forums.
Haha. It is something that I'm sure they could implement with software. I'd even consider a hardware upgrade to increase the cpu capability if needed.
Like I said, minor issues. I hope Arturia are supportive of their flagship synth for some years to come. It does sound great, just needs some bugs and features worked out.
-
It’s worth joining the Arturia forum. They also actively encourage people to raise a support ticket with new feature requests (rather than just writing on the forum about it). They have basically said that the more tickets they get for a certain feature request, the higher up their list of priorities it will be placed.
-
New Soundpack with 32 brand-new presets for the Matrixbrute, you can demo the Sounds here:
https://youtu.be/LkWeduYvEfA (https://youtu.be/LkWeduYvEfA)
-
Really love this mono, but does anyone else wish for a additional high pass filter? Really these things should be standard on all synths, especially ones with such obese low frequencies.
A per-osc pre-filter high pass would be ace...