The Official Sequential/Oberheim Forum
OTHER DISCUSSIONS => General Synthesis => Other Hardware/Software => Topic started by: Razmo on January 26, 2018, 09:41:43 AM
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vaxG5g266A
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Interesting. At least they aren't cloning something. Good for them!
I fear it has a Eurorack patch panel on the right hand side (I only say fear because I am sworn off EuroCrack for the sake of my retirement account).
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Usually you do not need to use a patchbay if you do not want to, even if it's there... I bet that if it does have it, it will still be semi modular... it sounds pretty good though... rough and edgy analog like... a little "dirty"... :)
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This is an earlier teaser shot... it's clearly the same synth, so you're right... Patching ad libitum...
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Hmm, it has a very familiar sound.
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It's familiar maybe because in another video from today, beneath the oscillator tuning knob it says "3340 Oscillator" ... it seems that Benringer meant it when they said they would clone the Curtis chips... this is probably the first product to use them... more competition for DSI... I like it he he :D
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Interesting. At least they aren't cloning something. Good for them!
I fear it has a Eurorack patch panel on the right hand side (I only say fear because I am sworn off EuroCrack for the sake of my retirement account).
And thus, you were wrong on that one ;) ,,, they cloned the Curtis oscillator for a start... time will tell if they also cloned others as well :)
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https://youtu.be/FWwI2sa4PU4
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Interesting. At least they aren't cloning something. Good for them!
I fear it has a Eurorack patch panel on the right hand side (I only say fear because I am sworn off EuroCrack for the sake of my retirement account).
And thus, you were wrong on that one ;) ,,, they cloned the Curtis oscillator for a start... time will tell if they also cloned others as well :)
Oh well.... they were more clever in their deceit this time... I will know better next time.
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The words are perhaps not entirely appropriate, but "pirate" and "scavenger" certainly come to mind. I have a hard time respecting the method by which we're given these great deals on synthesizers. If I were in the instrument business, I sure wouldn't appreciate this fellow plundering my designs.
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The words are perhaps not entirely appropriate, but "pirate" and "scavenger" certainly come to mind. I have a hard time respecting the method by which we're given these great deals on synthesizers. If I were in the instrument business, I sure wouldn't appreciate this fellow plundering my designs.
If they do not have the sole right to producing these chips anymore (which I assume they do not) because of time having passed, just like the MOOG ladder filter patent, then I really do not see the problem... there has to be a limit to how long people can keep on hoarding on their patents all by themselves... actually this is good for the customer who can now get that sound for a fraction of the price... Also, these chips were originally made to be used by many a companies for their synthesizers, that is the purpose of the chips... it is not Dave's patent, please remember that... he also used them extensively, and still do.
This "problem" is about only ONE THING; money, and "keeping it in the family"... I'm against capitalism and especially greed which tend to be the biggest problem of our time these days, with wealth being concentrated on fewer and fewer hands... releasing such a patent like this one allow for more people to "get in on the cake"... I like that.
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The words are perhaps not entirely appropriate, but "pirate" and "scavenger" certainly come to mind. I have a hard time respecting the method by which we're given these great deals on synthesizers. If I were in the instrument business, I sure wouldn't appreciate this fellow plundering my designs.
AMEN to that!
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And then to play the altruistic knight in shining armor come to save "the people" from those big mean companies with their exorbitant prices. In the end, who makes the money? He does! Pardon me, but I don't swoon at the song of the self-proclaimed hero of the common folk...who ends up at his bank with a deposit slip, just like all the others.
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And then to play the altruistic knight in shining armor come to save "the people" from those big mean companies with their exorbitant prices. In the end, who makes the money? He does! Pardon me, but I don't swoon at the song of the self-proclaimed hero of the common folk...who ends up at his bank with a deposit slip, just like all the others.
I did NOT say that Uli is not like any of the other "rich dudes" taking your money... he's probably no better, and use people from the east to slave for his production just like so many other multinational companies... In fact my answer here had nothing to do with Uli at all, but rather the idear, that maybe it's time to let others benefit from DEAD PEOPLES famous creations? ...
I do not care shit if it's Uli, Dave or twenty other manufacturers that took the opportunity to be creative with these old patents and create what the users want, as long as more people can join in on the fun... it would allow for more competition which will end in better prices for the end user... not all musicians have their ass stuffed with money, and music hardware should not only be a rich man's opportunity... that's my opinion, and not up for discussion in any way.
So suddenly, all people that can only afford a Behringer synth, or someone who want something that only Behringer is producing because no one else is, is suddenly a "self-proclaimed hero" !? .. *SIGH!*
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Razmo, calm down. My comments were not addressed to you, nor did I quote you or even consult your post. They were motivated by Shaw's above realization, by an interview I watched with Behringer himself, as well as many comments I've read from people here and there. He's been made into some sort of folk hero, and it makes me sick.
If someone is going to make instruments based on other people's ideas, then at the very least, let them shut up about it. In the end, everybody's making money, including Behringer. I don't see the heroism in his approach.
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Besides I really do not see the problem... I know that Behringer (in the past) did some rip offs of other manufacturers current products... that was a lousy thing to do, I agree on that one, and any other product Behringer copies that is in production at other manufacturers at the same time is a bad move...
But cloning old vintage synths not available from the original manufacturers anymore, or chips that was intentionally made for others to create their instruments with (just like the Curtis chips was intended), I really cannot see a problem... the original companies no longer manufacture these, and obviously they do not want to, otherwise they would have done so long ago, as the demand has been there for a looooong time now.
Yes... MOOG has done a reissue of their Model D, and Behringer is currently making a "D", but even if the sound and layout is basically the same, the "D" is in module form, a feature that MOOG fails to provide, so I find that clone more than welcome where MOOG obviously do not deliver.
Behringer has a bad reputation from what they did back then, that seems to linger on forever with some people obviously, and if these people want to be offended for the rest of their life, then I could not care less... more and more people are beginning to see Behringer for what they are TODAY, and I find that to be a good move. They are not doing anything today that other companies are not doing as well.
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My point is, he's just another businessman who's found his niche for making money. So be it. I don't personally respect his approach because I greatly admire the design achievements of Moog, DSI, Roland, and so on. What annoys me is how he's venerated at the expense of the other companies, as if he's the light and they're the darkness. No, he's just another clever guy making money amid other clever guys making money.
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Razmo, calm down. My comments were not addressed to you, nor did I quote you or even consult your post. My comments were based on an interview I watched with Behringer himself and many comments I've read from people here and there. He's been made into some sort of folk hero, and it makes me sick.
If someone is going to make instruments based on other people's ideas, then at the very least, let them shut up about it. In the end, everybody's making money, including Behringer. I don't see the heroism in his approach.
I don't really care what people think of ULI as a person (I'm definitely not a HYPE person)... I'm only interested in the products he makes, and in this thread we're talking about a new product from ULI which is as much a unique new synth, as any other out there... there is NOTHING cloned in it, it's a unique concept...
Yes, it may have a clone of the 3340 CEM chip... true... these chips was used A LOT in many instruments in the 80's and 90's, and was intended to be used by synth manufacturers... Behringer recreated an out of production chip for use with this synth, and frantically; if Behringer decides to release their chips for sale in the future, I would certainly qualify that as a "heroic act", as many manufacturers would want these available again... the Dark Energy 1 from Doepfer was discontinued exactly because Dieter could not get any new old stock of these chips.
So please... bash Behringer all you want, if they rip off other manufacturers current production runs... I'm 100% with you on that one... but when they release something like this, they should at least be complimented for it... just like you do with bad kids that suddenly behave nicely ;)
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Oh well.... they were more clever in their deceit this time... I will know better next time.
The thread included the above comment, as well as your remarks about capitalism - important additions to the discussion. And I'm not bashing Behringer. I'm only concerned about the way other companies are put down in light of him.
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new product from ULI which is as much a unique new synth, as any other out there... there is NOTHING cloned in it, it's a unique concept...
So B-word are evolving their innovation process by progressing from one to multiple inspiration sources?
. o O ( :o :o :o )
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Features
◾Paraphonic synthesizer with authentic dual 3340 analog oscillators for insanely fat music creation
◾Pure analog signal path based on legendary VCO design to recreate classic sound performance
◾Semi-modular architecture with default routings requires no patching for immediate performance
◾Oscillator waveform control blends seamlessly between 5 shapes (tone mod, saw tooth, pulse, triangle, sine wave)
◾Individual pulse width / tone mod control provides ultimate sounds
◾Paraphonic mode allows both oscillators to be independently controlled
◾Flexible LFO with fi ve waveform shapes, MIDI clock sync, key sync and delay / fade in
◾Two analogue ADSR generators for modulation of VCF and VCA
◾Multiple stage analog delay based on legendary BBD (Bucket Brigade Delay) technology
◾Overdrive circuit adds rich analog warmth and edge to your sounds
◾Noise generator dramatically expands waveform generation
◾36 controls and 7 buttons give you direct and real time access to all parameters
◾Switchable, self-oscillating, multi-mode analog 12 dB/Oct VCF with dual output (e.g. LP+HP available on jacks) Utility functions including attenuators, multiples, slew rate limiter and summers for creative patching flexibility
◾32 in / 24 out jack matrix for an incredible amount of patching options
◾Patchable audio-rate sample and hold with glide for added creativity
◾Headphone output with dedicated level control
◾External audio input for processing external sound sources
◾Comprehensive USB/Midi implementation for connection to keyboard/sequencer
◾Designed and engineered in the U.K.
Price
The official price has not yet been confirmed by Behringer, but Guitar Center and Musician’s Friend have announced a price of $299 USD. The would be the same price as the Mode D. If the price is true, which we can’t say yet, Behringer would make the world of “semi”-modular Synthesizers very affordable for many musicians.
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Features
◾Paraphonic synthesizer with authentic dual 3340 analog oscillators for insanely fat music creation
◾Pure analog signal path based on legendary VCO design to recreate classic sound performance
◾Semi-modular architecture with default routings requires no patching for immediate performance
◾Oscillator waveform control blends seamlessly between 5 shapes (tone mod, saw tooth, pulse, triangle, sine wave)
◾Individual pulse width / tone mod control provides ultimate sounds
◾Paraphonic mode allows both oscillators to be independently controlled
◾Flexible LFO with fi ve waveform shapes, MIDI clock sync, key sync and delay / fade in
◾Two analogue ADSR generators for modulation of VCF and VCA
◾Multiple stage analog delay based on legendary BBD (Bucket Brigade Delay) technology
◾Overdrive circuit adds rich analog warmth and edge to your sounds
◾Noise generator dramatically expands waveform generation
◾36 controls and 7 buttons give you direct and real time access to all parameters
◾Switchable, self-oscillating, multi-mode analog 12 dB/Oct VCF with dual output (e.g. LP+HP available on jacks) Utility functions including attenuators, multiples, slew rate limiter and summers for creative patching flexibility
◾32 in / 24 out jack matrix for an incredible amount of patching options
◾Patchable audio-rate sample and hold with glide for added creativity
◾Headphone output with dedicated level control
◾External audio input for processing external sound sources
◾Comprehensive USB/Midi implementation for connection to keyboard/sequencer
◾Designed and engineered in the U.K.
Price
The official price has not yet been confirmed by Behringer, but Guitar Center and Musician’s Friend have announced a price of $299 USD. The would be the same price as the Mode D. If the price is true, which we can’t say yet, Behringer would make the world of “semi”-modular Synthesizers very affordable for many musicians.
Decent.
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Features
◾Paraphonic synthesizer with authentic dual 3340 analog oscillators for insanely fat music creation
◾Pure analog signal path based on legendary VCO design to recreate classic sound performance
◾Semi-modular architecture with default routings requires no patching for immediate performance
◾Oscillator waveform control blends seamlessly between 5 shapes (tone mod, saw tooth, pulse, triangle, sine wave)
◾Individual pulse width / tone mod control provides ultimate sounds
◾Paraphonic mode allows both oscillators to be independently controlled
◾Flexible LFO with fi ve waveform shapes, MIDI clock sync, key sync and delay / fade in
◾Two analogue ADSR generators for modulation of VCF and VCA
◾Multiple stage analog delay based on legendary BBD (Bucket Brigade Delay) technology
◾Overdrive circuit adds rich analog warmth and edge to your sounds
◾Noise generator dramatically expands waveform generation
◾36 controls and 7 buttons give you direct and real time access to all parameters
◾Switchable, self-oscillating, multi-mode analog 12 dB/Oct VCF with dual output (e.g. LP+HP available on jacks) Utility functions including attenuators, multiples, slew rate limiter and summers for creative patching flexibility
◾32 in / 24 out jack matrix for an incredible amount of patching options
◾Patchable audio-rate sample and hold with glide for added creativity
◾Headphone output with dedicated level control
◾External audio input for processing external sound sources
◾Comprehensive USB/Midi implementation for connection to keyboard/sequencer
◾Designed and engineered in the U.K.
Price
The official price has not yet been confirmed by Behringer, but Guitar Center and Musician’s Friend have announced a price of $299 USD. The would be the same price as the Mode D. If the price is true, which we can’t say yet, Behringer would make the world of “semi”-modular Synthesizers very affordable for many musicians.
Nice price, nicely cloned 3340 ..... sounds, at least on Youtube, pretty good.
But honestly I believe Behringer is onto something here. If they keep quality up.
My move away from VST plugin sound sources to hardware devices over the last 3 years costs a lot of money. Even obtaining second hand equipment can still be rather expensive for a (not for profit ;-) musician. If I would have stuck with a VST only setup, it would be a factor 2 to 3 cheaper and sound wise not really matter that much (debatable of course) .....
What Behringer is doing is leveling the playing field between plugin and hardware based sound sources. Price level of 300 dollars/Euros for a hardware device is starting to compete with VST pricing (taking controller/computer aspects into account as well of course).
Interesting times 8) ;)
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My move away from VST plugin sound sources to hardware devices over the last 3 years costs a lot of money. Even obtaining second hand equipment can still be rather expensive for a (not for profit ;-) musician. If I would have stuck with a VST only setup, it would be a factor 2 to 3 cheaper and sound wise not really matter that much (debatable of course) .....
What Behringer is doing is leveling the playing field between plugin and hardware based sound sources. Price level of 300 dollars/Euros for a hardware device is starting to compete with VST pricing (taking controller/computer aspects into account as well of course).
Interesting times 8) ;)
Consider the costs involved with maintaining a legacy PC or Mac to run obsoleted plugins (or ones that you have not paid to upgrade)...
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My move away from VST plugin sound sources to hardware devices over the last 3 years costs a lot of money. Even obtaining second hand equipment can still be rather expensive for a (not for profit ;-) musician. If I would have stuck with a VST only setup, it would be a factor 2 to 3 cheaper and sound wise not really matter that much (debatable of course) .....
What Behringer is doing is leveling the playing field between plugin and hardware based sound sources. Price level of 300 dollars/Euros for a hardware device is starting to compete with VST pricing (taking controller/computer aspects into account as well of course).
Interesting times 8) ;)
Consider the costs involved with maintaining a legacy PC or Mac to run obsoleted plugins (or ones that you have not paid to upgrade)...
Very very true. Still running Windows XP in Ubuntu based Virtualbox to manage the Akai S5000 (ak.sys) - actually that is a lot of fun :)
Behringer is lowering the entry point for getting into proper hardware synth based music production. Which, as far as I can see, is only a good thing.
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Hi there,
I am looking forward to have a Analog Synth, never used one before, other than on VST. Am getting into Electronic music. Would you recommend to buy Behringer Neutron for a beginner? Or would you suggest any other to start with, with the same price range?
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Hi there,
I am looking forward to have a Analog Synth, never used one before, other than on VST. Am getting into Electronic music. Would you recommend to buy Behringer Neutron for a beginner? Or would you suggest any other to start with, with the same price range?
I wish I could tell you but the one I preordered when they were first announced has still not shipped here in the states. I have their Moog Model D clone and it is a lot of bang for the buck. I liked the fact that the Neutron was something original and the demos sound cool. Other than the new IK Uno there isn’t a cheaper path to an analog mono synth that I can think of. And unlike the Uno you can grow it with other Eurorack hardware.
Hopefully I’ll actually have one in hand soon!
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I wish I could tell you but the one I preordered when they were first announced has still not shipped here in the states. I have their Moog Model D clone and it is a lot of bang for the buck. I liked the fact that the Neutron was something original and the demos sound cool. Other than the new IK Uno there isn’t a cheaper path to an analog mono synth that I can think of. And unlike the Uno you can grow it with other Eurorack hardware.
Hopefully I’ll actually have one in hand soon!
Hi, Since the price is less compared to moog modulars (only comparing price here :) .... and since this would be my 1st semi-modular, i thought let me give it a try. I will check on new IK Uno and Model D clone.
So you preordered from within US or from the UK? And could i know when you preordered, did it had patch cables included with it?
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Wow your post on a dormant thread brought me good luck! When I saw your post last night I was reminded how long it has been since I ordered with Sweetwater here in US.
I got up this morning to this email:
“Thanks again for your order XXXXXXXX. We're excited to tell you that it's on its way! It was shipped on 9/13/18”
So I should have my Neutron by the weekend! I think my Model D did come with a few patch cables. I’ll report back when the Neutron arrives.
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So my Neutron arrived today. Yes it does have patch cables. Six to be exact each about 12” long. It also comes with the ribbon power cable if you want to mount it in a Eurorack case.
The oscillators and the filter sound great. The fact it has an analog BBD delay and only cost me $249 (Sweetwater GearFest show price) is hard to beat as far as bang for buck goes. It has more patch points than my Mother-32 and a total different vibe. I think they will compliment each other nicely.
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So my Neutron arrived today. Yes it does have patch cables. Six to be exact each about 12” long. It also comes with the ribbon power cable if you want to mount it in a Eurorack case.
The oscillators and the filter sound great. The fact it has an analog BBD delay and only cost me $249 (Sweetwater GearFest show price) is hard to beat as far as bang for buck goes. It has more patch points than my Mother-32 and a total different vibe. I think they will compliment each other nicely.
Awesome! Congrats on finally getting the Neutron :) .... I did check with another person on Facebook, he mentioned the same, that he got 6 Patch cables, but he had to buy 6 more, though he mentioned 12 cables was not enough. With the combination of patch points, not sure exactly how much is required.
12" patch cables seems long, or is it 6"?
Am from Bangalore, India. I checked with Sweetwater, Guitar Center and Audio Images Corporation, who has this product for same price (USD 300), but if i get from US to India (via a friend of myne), the warranty is not valid. So, am also still checking with an Distributor here South India, yet to get reply on how much it's costing me.
Yup, i like Mother-32 too, am planning to get that next after Neutron.
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I just measured the cables. They are 13.5 inches tip to tip. The Moog Mother-32 actually came with 6” cables but the Mother-32 does have a smaller patch bay. Those cables lengths are fine if you are only going to be patching the Neutron to itself. You’ll want some longer cables to patch to other synths or modules.
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I just measured the cables. They are 13.5 inches tip to tip. The Moog Mother-32 actually came with 6” cables but the Mother-32 does have a smaller patch bay. Those cables lengths are fine if you are only going to be patching the Neutron to itself. You’ll want some longer cables to patch to other synths or modules.
Hi Gomjab, finally through another person got an Behringer Neutron from UK, it was more pricey than US. I have Question, i have this Novation Launchkey midi, what type of cable is required to connect from midi to neutron? Am buyinthe usb and patch cables though, so with that need to buy the above am asking.
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So my Neutron arrived today. Yes it does have patch cables. Six to be exact each about 12” long. It also comes with the ribbon power cable if you want to mount it in a Eurorack case.
The oscillators and the filter sound great. The fact it has an analog BBD delay and only cost me $249 (Sweetwater GearFest show price) is hard to beat as far as bang for buck goes. It has more patch points than my Mother-32 and a total different vibe. I think they will compliment each other nicely.
One of my coworkers bought a neutron and I played with it briefly. However I thought the resonance on the filter was absolutely abysmal (in contrast to something like an IR3109). It appears it's 12 dB instead of the usual 24 dB, and it appears to be 2-pole instead of 4-pole? I suppose that would be related to why I didn't like it, but maybe I didn't spend enough time with it? I'd *really* like to hear a demo from someone else using the resonance on it for a different perspective.
I don't want to just say "the resonance sucks!" without hearing more of it.
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One of my coworkers bought a neutron and I played with it briefly. However I thought the resonance on the filter was absolutely abysmal (in contrast to something like an IR3109). It appears it's 12 dB instead of the usual 24 dB, and it appears to be 2-pole instead of 4-pole? I suppose that would be related to why I didn't like it, but maybe I didn't spend enough time with it? I'd *really* like to hear a demo from someone else using the resonance on it for a different perspective.
I don't want to just say "the resonance sucks!" without hearing more of it.
It's definitely a 2-pole (which means 12db for electronic theory reasons I've never learned) filter. I quite like it, especially paired with those oscillators, but these things are quite personal. Lots of people love Arturia's take on the Steiner-Parker filter, but to me it's just a harsh mess, and not at all as nice as the original.
The Sonic State review is good, and has a typical use of the filter with a bit of resonance here, followed by an examination of the filter: https://youtu.be/xfD8RmALHwQ?t=483