The Official Sequential/Oberheim Forum
OTHER DISCUSSIONS => General Synthesis => Other Hardware/Software => Topic started by: eXode on January 17, 2018, 10:54:22 PM
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KORG present the Prologue synthesizer!
16/8-voice analog synthesizer circuit.
Newly developed multi-engine equipped with three types: noise, VPM, and user.
High-quality digital effects.。
An open API (Application Programming Interface) for user-created oscillators and effects。
Newly developed L.F. COMP. (Low Frequency Compressor) analog effect (prologue-16 only).
Bi-timbre support.
Voice modes that allow voices to be flexibly recombined.
Arpeggiator equipped with a variety of types and range settings.
Program Sort allows rapid access to 500 programs.
Japanese-made high-quality natural touch keyboard.
Oscilloscope function shows the waveform visually.
Tough and stylish body made of aluminum and wood.
Sync with another groove machine to enjoy jam sessions.
Lineup includes a 16-voice 61-key model and an eight-voice 49-key model.
More info: http://www.korg.com/us/products/synthesizers/prologue/
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16 voice version
(http://cdn.korg.com/us/products/upload/b6fd5c4c4f2512c77fac60b82f6d9f89.png)
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Looks like a nice do-it-all machine competing head on with the REV2. Sound cloud examples sounded nice. Looks very pretty. Quickly browsed the manual and could not find a way to sync the delay effect to a clock (the LFO can be slaved to BPM so it seems).
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The example videos sound nice to me.
Will be interesting to see what the "expandable oscillator and FX engine" can do.
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I do love the user interface and the VCOs do sound fantastic....but it seems to be lacking a bunch of modulation capabilities of the REV2 which it's in direct competition with price wise.
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I do love the user interface and the VCOs do sound fantastic....but it seems to be lacking a bunch of modulation capabilities of the REV2 which it's in direct competition with price wise.
I'd say that it competes with Prophet 6/OB-6 as well.
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I do love the user interface and the VCOs do sound fantastic....but it seems to be lacking a bunch of modulation capabilities of the REV2 which it's in direct competition with price wise.
I'd say that it competes with Prophet 6/OB-6 as well.
It does to a certain extent I suppose. Either way it seems a bit lackluster. Does it have aftertouch?
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Well, now I've heard it. I'm not at all impressed with the Prologue. The sound is thin and heavily veiled behind effects. That "Runner Brass" patch? My rickety old Prophet '08 would blow it to smithereens - never mind the Rev2. And the "Simple Saw" patch sounds as if it's got chorus added, or else, one of the oscillators is being slightly and slowly modulated to emulate chorus. The point is, it doesn't allow for an analytical listen to the sawtooth waveform. Key track only 50-100%? I need it by increments. And the pads are drowned in enough reverb and delay to make even my falsetto voice sound lovely! It sounds like another synthesizer that tells you what to do, rather than vice-versa. The presentation reminds me of the Deepmind 12.
Obviously, the user oscillator is interesting, and perhaps the most outstanding part of the instrument. The ability to crossfade between the two layers is also unique. And I do like the appearance, although it's strangely familiar-looking....Otherwise, it doesn't strike me as being strong in any one department, but a mixed bag.
I'm impressed that Korg has used full-sized keys and long keyboards. That's a refreshing change.
By the way, exactly what does "stunning presence unlike any other poly synth" mean? And why is Korg calling bi-timbrality "multi-timbrality"? It makes you think more than two layers are available, whereas bi-timbrality is more to the point.
Boy, does this put me in the mood for a new DSI synthesizer.
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I don't think it's a bad instrument. If one didn't already have an analog polyphonic synth it's still a nice option for bread and butter stuff. The interface I really dig and the VCOs do sound decent but with the price point being what it is and with the other options on the market...it seems boring.
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I'm shocked that those are VCO's. They sound to me like old DCO's. Perhaps the recordings are only mediocre.
I would love to see DSI produce a magnificent Poly Evolver Keyboard revision that we could never forget. This would be the time to do it. Come on, fellas.
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Well, now I've heard it. I'm not at all impressed with the Prologue. The sound is thin and heavily veiled behind effects. That "Runner Brass" patch? My rickety old Prophet '08 would blow it to smithereens - never mind the Rev2. And the "Simple Saw" patch sounds as if it's got chorus added, or else, one of the oscillators is being slightly and slowly modulated to emulate chorus. The point is, it doesn't allow for an analytical listen to the sawtooth waveform. And the pads are drowned in enough reverb and delay to make even my falsetto voice sound lovely! It's the Deepmind 12 all over again.
I concur with regard to the overall sound. It has a thinner, sometimes even nasal quality (I don't mean the beautiful quality of BP filters by that), basically like the Minilogue, which of course shouldn't come as a surprise. Although I've heard some nice analog pads as well, the Rev2, Prophet-6, and OB-6 sound way more high-end. For a lack of a better expression, I find the Prologue to sound smaller and somewhat cheaper (as in: less luxurious) than DSI's poly synths. The quality of the effects seems to be nice, though. I wouldn't go as far as comparing this with the DM12, which basically only has 1.5 DCOs and offers way less substance in the raw sound department.
What I found really annoying about most presentations was the excessive focus on what I would rather call standard or elementary features, as if a company like DSI never existed. But I guess the lack of modulation options forces one to focus on less spectacular aspects instead. In that regard DSI is still miles ahead - even the rather simple Prophet-6 and OB-6.
Obviously, the user oscillator is interesting, and perhaps the most outstanding part of the instrument. The ability to crossfade between the two layers is also unique. And I do like the appearance, although it's strangely familiar-looking....Otherwise, it doesn't strike me as being strong in any one department, but a mixed bag; and I find the oscilloscope and VU meter to be fun but gimmicky.
The digital oscillator seems to me the most intersting part as well, particularly of how it may be tinkered with. The crossfade could be programmed on any DSI synth, but a dedicated knob does of course come in handy, especially in live situations.
I think the familiar look is mostly due to the wheels placed in a similar fashion as on the Rev2. The rest basically follows the design of the Minilogue and Monologue. It's just bigger.
The oscilloscope can have an educational purpose or can even be helpful for sound design. And the VU meter for the analog compressor is also fine with me. Since there's still plenty of space left, it would have been nice, though, if they could have added a second LFO and Aftertouch.
I'm impressed that Korg has used full-sized keys and long keyboards. That's a refreshing change.
By the way, exactly what does "stunning presence unlike any other poly synth" mean? And why is Korg calling bi-timbrality "multi-timbrality"?
Maybe they refer to the analog compressor with the "stunning presence". And bi-timbrality is a form of multi-timbrality, only the lowest possible one.
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It does seem their ultimate goal was to bring it in at the exact same price as the REV2. For whatever reason that meant no aftertouch, which is a glaring omission. Also probably why there's only one LFO, although there could possibly be a technical reason for that as well. I have yet to hear anything really stand out about it other than its superior on-board reverb, but the user digital OSC will obviously be the most interesting aspect.
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I'm shocked that those are VCO's. They sound to me like old DCO's. Perhaps the recordings are only mediocre.
I would love to see DSI produce a magnificent Poly Evolver Keyboard revision that we could never forget. This would be the time to do it. Come on, fellas.
Yeah...now is the time for DSI to do one or all of three things.
1.) Multitimbrality (Actually multitimbrality not Korg's definition)
2.) MPE (Another collaboration with Roger Linn and his Linnstrument possibly would give the same expression to a DSI synth as a CS-80 and be totally unique)
3.) Hybrid that includes both the VS waves and also Prophet 2000 samples on the digital oscillators and two Prophet 6 VCOs. Also two new filter types (Comb and Vocal).
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I think the open API of OSC3 and FX could be interesting.
"The prologue offers an SDK (Software Development Kit) that allows developers to program, customize and extend the capabilities of the multi-engine and digital effects and is expected to be available for download in the spring of 2018. The prologue provides 16 user oscillator slots and 16 user effect slots, and users can use the prologue Librarian software (also expected to be available for download in the spring of 2018) to load into their prologue new oscillators and effect programs created by developers with the prologue SDK (Software Development Kit).
What types of sound will you create by combining the expanded digital oscillators with analog synthesis? You can create original programs and share code to participate in the user community. Start with sample code provided by KORG. The prologue belongs to you."
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At this point, I think DSI could combine previous instruments that would result in something better than the Prologue. How about a Prophet-6 combined with a Prophet VS, together with a few extra features? It would be stupendous.
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I think the open API of OSC3 and FX could be interesting.
"The prologue offers an SDK (Software Development Kit) that allows developers to program, customize and extend the capabilities of the multi-engine and digital effects and is expected to be available for download in the spring of 2018. The prologue provides 16 user oscillator slots and 16 user effect slots, and users can use the prologue Librarian software (also expected to be available for download in the spring of 2018) to load into their prologue new oscillators and effect programs created by developers with the prologue SDK (Software Development Kit).
What types of sound will you create by combining the expanded digital oscillators with analog synthesis? You can create original programs and share code to participate in the user community. Start with sample code provided by KORG. The prologue belongs to you."
Does this mean you can load samples into it?
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Does this mean you can load samples into it?
This question hasn't been directly answered yet. There's also still no detailed info on how user wave import is going to work in the manual. It only says "See the 'prologue user contents guide' (www.korg.com) for details," which isn't available yet. I assume this will be unveiled once the according app is ready, which is currently scheduled for spring.
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Does this mean you can load samples into it?
This question hasn't been directly answered yet. There's also still no detailed info on how user wave import is going to work in the manual. It only says "See the 'prologue user contents guide' (www.korg.com) for details," which isn't available yet. I assume this will be unveiled once the according app is ready, which is currently scheduled for spring.
I mean that's cool and all...but you may as well have squeezed in OSC4 in there as well...there seems to be a bunch of space on the front panel for more dials.
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I concur with regard to the overall sound. It has a thinner, sometimes even nasal quality (I don't mean the beautiful quality of BP filters by that), basically like the Minilogue, which of course shouldn't come as a surprise. Although I've heard some nice analog pads as well, the Rev2, Prophet-6, and OB-6 sound way more high-end. For a lack of a better expression, I find the Prologue to sound smaller and somewhat cheaper (as in: less luxurious) than DSI's poly synths.
And at this point, nothing else matters to me. A thousand fancy features cannot compensate for a mediocre base sound. If you can't strip down a synthesizer to a sawtooth or pulse width with a bit of reverb - artificial or natural - then you've got an instrument that needs to apologize each time it's heard.
Now there's a fine standard: test a synthesizer in the natural acoustics of a large room. If it doesn't excellent, then forget it. But I think we could make an educated guess in such a case.
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I mean that's cool and all...but you may as well have squeezed in OSC4 in there as well...there seems to be a bunch of space on the front panel for more dials.
On the front panel, yes. Not so much under the hood it seems:
(http://cdn.korg.com/de/products/upload/7bde16681a2c929fb5fac7aca84306ac_pc.jpg)
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I concur with regard to the overall sound. It has a thinner, sometimes even nasal quality (I don't mean the beautiful quality of BP filters by that), basically like the Minilogue, which of course shouldn't come as a surprise. Although I've heard some nice analog pads as well, the Rev2, Prophet-6, and OB-6 sound way more high-end. For a lack of a better expression, I find the Prologue to sound smaller and somewhat cheaper (as in: less luxurious) than DSI's poly synths.
And at this point, nothing else matters to me. A thousand fancy features cannot compensate for a mediocre base sound. If you can't strip down a synthesizer to a sawtooth or pulse width with a bit of reverb, then you've got an instrument that needs to apologize each time it's heard.
Indeed.
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When Korg said "Mindblowing" I was sort of expecting to have my mind blown. You know...actual multitimbrality or MPE....I mean god if this thing had MPE or was multitimbral I wouldn't even care about anything else. That alone would be unique.
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This video offers the best sense of the instrument so far. At about 7:30, they start running through the wave forms without effects.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlaGeJs4LSs
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When Korg said "Mindblowing" I was sort of expecting to have my mind blown. You know...actual multitimbrality or MPE....I mean god if this thing had MPE or was multitimbral I wouldn't even care about anything else. That alone would be unique.
But the Prologue does have multi-timbrality, LoboLives. It's just that Korg uses the term for bi-timbrality. ;D
I think we can all see through that one!
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Apart from sound, just comparing features based on price (which are the same as the REV 2's)
- 1 LFO
- No MIDI Implementation in the spec (Sysex) :-(
- No aftertouch
- 8 voice not upgradable
- Very limited modulation routings
- Sequencer seems more limited
Probably priced a bit too high.
If there will be a desktop version that can be 19" racked under 1K$ then might be interesting because yeah it sounds different. SDK is interesting. Hope the tools will be OS platform agnostic. Wonder how stable it is over time and temperature variations ? P.S:I had those kind of switches on a mixer once, they collected dust inside those gaps and broke after a while.
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When Korg said "Mindblowing" I was sort of expecting to have my mind blown. You know...actual multitimbrality or MPE....I mean god if this thing had MPE or was multitimbral I wouldn't even care about anything else. That alone would be unique.
MPE is still fairly niche, at least not yet fully compatible to the relative mass market korg is shooting for. And MIDI and multi-timbrality have become demographically displaced in the sense that I always get the impression that no one below 35 or 40 is still interested in that. Many younger musicians perceive multi-timbrality as obsolete these days due to DAWs. It's either that or CV-only gear, as the latter is currently perceived to be cooler.
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https://youtu.be/Iw8MoNndmX8 <- so far, one of the closest to a reasonable demo without kitschy beats or cheesy house piano comps.
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https://youtu.be/Iw8MoNndmX8 <- so far, one of the closest to a reasonable demo without kitschy beats or cheesy house piano comps.
But if it can do house piano comps it can do samples. ;D
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Apart from sound, just comparing features based on price (which are the same as the REV 2's)
- 1 LFO
- No MIDI Implementation in the spec (Sysex) :-(
- No aftertouch
- 8 voice not upgradable
- Very limited modulation routings
- Sequencer seems more limited
Probably priced a bit too high.
If there will be a desktop version that can be 19" racked under 1K$ then might be interesting.
It has an arpeggiator but not a sequencer, so no port for a sequencer pedal. No B output, auxiliary envelope, & no option for 4 pole. Eight voice has less keys as well. Though it has a 3rd digital osc and an analog compressor.
'Tis a mere pipe dream to expect there's going to be a rack version near the price you want.
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https://youtu.be/Iw8MoNndmX8 <- so far, one of the closest to a reasonable demo without kitschy beats or cheesy house piano comps.
But if it can do house piano comps it can do samples. ;D
Yeah, not sure whether those were coming from the device itself or elsewhere (as with the drums).
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https://youtu.be/Iw8MoNndmX8 <- so far, one of the closest to a reasonable demo without kitschy beats or cheesy house piano comps.
What synthesizer doesn't sound decent making reverb-drenched filter sweeps of parallel sixths, and with pretty little chirps in the background? I think that video better demonstrates the quality of the onboard reverb than the actual character of the synthesizer. This is what I mean by, "It's the Deepmind 12 all over again."
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When Korg said "Mindblowing" I was sort of expecting to have my mind blown. You know...actual multitimbrality or MPE....I mean god if this thing had MPE or was multitimbral I wouldn't even care about anything else. That alone would be unique.
MPE is still fairly niche, at least not yet fully compatible to the relative mass market korg is shooting for. And MIDI and multi-timbrality have become demographically displaced in the sense that I always get the impression that no one below 35 or 40 is still interested in that. Many younger musicians perceive multi-timbrality as obsolete these days due to DAWs. It's either that or CV-only gear, as the latter is currently perceived to be cooler.
Better to stand out than to fit in. Why not offer something fresh. In either case I hope DSI offer at least one of these on their next synth.
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When Korg said "Mindblowing" I was sort of expecting to have my mind blown. You know...actual multitimbrality or MPE....I mean god if this thing had MPE or was multitimbral I wouldn't even care about anything else. That alone would be unique.
MPE is still fairly niche, at least not yet fully compatible to the relative mass market korg is shooting for. And MIDI and multi-timbrality have become demographically displaced in the sense that I always get the impression that no one below 35 or 40 is still interested in that. Many younger musicians perceive multi-timbrality as obsolete these days due to DAWs. It's either that or CV-only gear, as the latter is currently perceived to be cooler.
Better to stand out than to fit in. Why not offer something fresh. In either case I hope DSI offer at least one of these on their next synth.
I'm not defending what I wrote above, it's not my view of things. It's just based on observations of tendencies that I think shape the current market expectations. And sure it's better to stand out than to fit in. But don't forget that a huge part of the current analog revival is based on factors like familiarity and simplicity. To some degree, those desires mark the opposite of anything fresh. More experimental or out-of-the-box stuff has always had a harder time, which also defines potential risks for manufacturers. But I'm always for encouragement and ideas in that direction.
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After hearing some examples I quite like it. I was sceptical about 2-pole only but I think diversifies it a little from other offerings. There are other 4-pole polyphonic synths out there, but I can see people who considered this as their one and only analogue polyphonic synth might be disappointed for some reason.
If anything, the lack of aftertouch might actually be the biggest deal breaker for me personally.
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I think the open API of OSC3 and FX could be interesting.
"The prologue offers an SDK (Software Development Kit) that allows developers to program, customize and extend the capabilities of the multi-engine and digital effects and is expected to be available for download in the spring of 2018. The prologue provides 16 user oscillator slots and 16 user effect slots, and users can use the prologue Librarian software (also expected to be available for download in the spring of 2018) to load into their prologue new oscillators and effect programs created by developers with the prologue SDK (Software Development Kit).
What types of sound will you create by combining the expanded digital oscillators with analog synthesis? You can create original programs and share code to participate in the user community. Start with sample code provided by KORG. The prologue belongs to you."
Does this mean you can load samples into it?
It doesn't imply sample loading, it implies that people with the know how can program their own oscillator and FX, that is what I understand from reading that statement.
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After hearing some examples I quite like it. I was sceptical about 2-pole only but I think diversifies it a little from other offerings. There are other 4-pole polyphonic synths out there, but I can see people who considered this as their one and only analogue polyphonic synth might be disappointed for some reason.
If anything, the lack of aftertouch might actually be the biggest deal breaker for me personally.
For me it's the lack of identity.
Also a lot of 4 pole synths do have a 2 pole option I believe.
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After hearing some examples I quite like it. I was sceptical about 2-pole only but I think diversifies it a little from other offerings. There are other 4-pole polyphonic synths out there, but I can see people who considered this as their one and only analogue polyphonic synth might be disappointed for some reason.
If anything, the lack of aftertouch might actually be the biggest deal breaker for me personally.
For me it's the lack of identity.
Also a lot of 4 pole synths do have a 2 pole option I believe.
Well, agree to disagree on that. I think it has it's own identity for sure, definitely different enough from DSI or Behringer. If you like it or not is highly subjective of course. :)
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After hearing some examples I quite like it. I was sceptical about 2-pole only but I think diversifies it a little from other offerings. There are other 4-pole polyphonic synths out there, but I can see people who considered this as their one and only analogue polyphonic synth might be disappointed for some reason.
If anything, the lack of aftertouch might actually be the biggest deal breaker for me personally.
For me it's the lack of identity.
Also a lot of 4 pole synths do have a 2 pole option I believe.
Well, agree to disagree on that. I think it has it's own identity for sure, definitely different enough from DSI or Behringer. If you like it or not is highly subjective of course. :)
Yeah I'd have to play one in person but I'm just saying for the price point and for what it is I'm not seeing exactly what's unique about it other than the User Osc3.
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I think the open API of OSC3 and FX could be interesting.
"The prologue offers an SDK (Software Development Kit) that allows developers to program, customize and extend the capabilities of the multi-engine and digital effects and is expected to be available for download in the spring of 2018. The prologue provides 16 user oscillator slots and 16 user effect slots, and users can use the prologue Librarian software (also expected to be available for download in the spring of 2018) to load into their prologue new oscillators and effect programs created by developers with the prologue SDK (Software Development Kit).
What types of sound will you create by combining the expanded digital oscillators with analog synthesis? You can create original programs and share code to participate in the user community. Start with sample code provided by KORG. The prologue belongs to you."
Does this mean you can load samples into it?
I doubt it is loading samples. If it were able to do so, Sample Memory would have been among the specs released.
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After hearing some examples I quite like it. I was sceptical about 2-pole only but I think diversifies it a little from other offerings. There are other 4-pole polyphonic synths out there, but I can see people who considered this as their one and only analogue polyphonic synth might be disappointed for some reason.
If anything, the lack of aftertouch might actually be the biggest deal breaker for me personally.
For me it's the lack of identity.
Also a lot of 4 pole synths do have a 2 pole option I believe.
Well, agree to disagree on that. I think it has it's own identity for sure, definitely different enough from DSI or Behringer. If you like it or not is highly subjective of course. :)
Yeah I'd have to play one in person but I'm just saying for the price point and for what it is I'm not seeing exactly what's unique about it other than the User Osc3.
Is there currently another discrete vco synth out there with 16 voices badass effects and an analog compressor that bi-timbral?...the osc 3 is awesome looking so far.....at this price point I don't see anyone out there doing this....
and another thing, Korg is awesome with software updates/upgrades.....you'll get no lectures for asking for them either.
BTW, I'm not hearing "mediocre sound" either...it sounds amazing so far:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=791&v=KlaGeJs4LSs
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I wouldn't call it mediocre or a bad price, but you're not listing anything that makes it truly stand out either. What we're seeing here is an arms race, not the revolutionary step that some were expecting or hoping for.
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I wouldn't call it mediocre or a bad price, but you're not listing anything that makes it truly stand out either. What we're seeing here is an arms race, not the revolutionary step that some were expecting or hoping for.
It seems like some are grasping at straws to find something negative to say about it. I'll say this, think of where we were 6-7 years ago in the analog market compared to where we are today....
Korg was the rompler King......now they have the arp, ms-20, a new flagship analog and a couple of affordable polys...
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After hearing some examples I quite like it. I was sceptical about 2-pole only but I think diversifies it a little from other offerings. There are other 4-pole polyphonic synths out there, but I can see people who considered this as their one and only analogue polyphonic synth might be disappointed for some reason.
If anything, the lack of aftertouch might actually be the biggest deal breaker for me personally.
For me it's the lack of identity.
Also a lot of 4 pole synths do have a 2 pole option I believe.
Well, agree to disagree on that. I think it has it's own identity for sure, definitely different enough from DSI or Behringer. If you like it or not is highly subjective of course. :)
Yeah I'd have to play one in person but I'm just saying for the price point and for what it is I'm not seeing exactly what's unique about it other than the User Osc3.
Is there currently another discrete vco synth out there with 16 voices badass effects and an analog compressor that bi-timbral?...the osc 3 is awesome looking so far.....at this price point I don't see anyone out there doing this....
and another thing, Korg is awesome with software updates/upgrades.....you'll get no lectures for asking for them either.
BTW, I'm not hearing "mediocre sound" either...it sounds amazing so far:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=791&v=KlaGeJs4LSs
No there is not another 16 voice VCO synth on the market....but there are a bunch with aftertouch...something you can't update in software.
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I wouldn't call it mediocre or a bad price, but you're not listing anything that makes it truly stand out either. What we're seeing here is an arms race, not the revolutionary step that some were expecting or hoping for.
It seems like some are grasping at straws to find something negative to say about it. I'll say this, think of where we were 6-7 years ago in the analog market compared to where we are today....
Korg was the rompler King......now they have the arp, ms-20, a new flagship analog and a couple of affordable polys...
In 2018. Any synth, analog or digital that doesn't have aftertouch is inexcusable.
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You'll just have to wait for the Epilogue in a few years time for that addition.
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I wouldn't call it mediocre or a bad price, but you're not listing anything that makes it truly stand out either. What we're seeing here is an arms race, not the revolutionary step that some were expecting or hoping for.
It seems like some are grasping at straws to find something negative to say about it. I'll say this, think of where we were 6-7 years ago in the analog market compared to where we are today....
Korg was the rompler King......now they have the arp, ms-20, a new flagship analog and a couple of affordable polys...
In 2018. Any synth, analog or digital that doesn't have aftertouch is inexcusable.
+1
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I'm shocked that those are VCO's. They sound to me like old DCO's. Perhaps the recordings are only mediocre.
Well, that oscillator nut is very very hard to crack.
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I wouldn't call it mediocre or a bad price, but you're not listing anything that makes it truly stand out either. What we're seeing here is an arms race, not the revolutionary step that some were expecting or hoping for.
It seems like some are grasping at straws to find something negative to say about it. I'll say this, think of where we were 6-7 years ago in the analog market compared to where we are today....
Korg was the rompler King......now they have the arp, ms-20, a new flagship analog and a couple of affordable polys...
In 2018. Any synth, analog or digital that doesn't have aftertouch is inexcusable.
I don't disagree about aftertouch(though it's nice they have a pedal input to make up for that somewhat)...not enough for me to discount the synth, not even close.
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It sounds nice, and I like the look of it. I don't care about polysynths, but I'd like to review the oscillator API documentation. It would be cool to see what it's capable of. There aren't enough on-board controls for the digital oscillator, though, to make it really flexible.
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but I'd like to review the oscillator API documentation. It would be cool to see what it's capable of.
Certainly here too. Wonder if someone would consider porting Mutable Instruments oscillator and effects code over to the Prologue?
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Certainly here too. Wonder if someone would consider porting Mutable Instruments oscillator and effects code over to the Prologue?
I'm only familiar with his eurorack code, which is neither portable (e.g., it's tightly bound to the controls and capabilities of the hardware that it runs on*) nor well-commented. We'll have to wait a couple months to see the Prologue's SDK to make any other guesses.
* Olivier knows the hardware really well, and pushes it to almost exactly what it's capable of doing.
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Sounds nice enough and will probably get a good uptake. Don't see too many of the first 'logues on the 2nd hand market, which says something about the user base being happy with the instruments.
The raw oscillators are not bad. Bi-timbrel is a welcome 'limitation' compared to the my fear that they were going to release paraphonic synth (why do I wind myself up so bad?) A switchable filter slope would have been good.
Good onboard effects are welcome and expected from Korg really. I don't think they were included to try to hide the oscillator quality, it's something that a flagship should have and they know that. The display could have been a little better. I'm not a fan of needing to use a computer to program stuff that could be done with few more lines and F buttons combined with the already present effects controls. I've never needed a VU meter for an instrument compressor and feel it gives no information of any value whereas the wave display will at least help with FM and VPM programming. Nice that Korg are telling us it's there and allowing us to control it to some extend I suppose, not like that chorus on some synths out of the 80's from a particular maker that are now classics. I'm not dissing them for putting the compressor there, it's a nice thought, just don't think many will need to double check how much more beef they are getting if they turn up the gain and could have been a better spot for ratio and threshold cut-off knobs (as it's being touted as an LF comp).
Korg seem to be grooming a new generation with their new line of analogues. They are all rather simple in terms of programming when compared to a DSI synth or any of Korg's flag-ship digital synths from the past and present. I don't really get why they are as simple as they are, since every kid I've met getting into physical synthesisers is coming from a soft-synth background, though it also feels like the 'logues are being pushed at keyboard players/performers. So if that is the case, why no aftertouch? Mind boggling.
Then there is the non-traditional side of the machine that says no, this is a programmer's synth too. By including a digital side that isn't VA/physical modelling and allowing for user waves, it brings features that were once niche to a wider user base. Players who may have been scared of non-big brands now get to try modulating a sine wave with a home-made single-cycle wave. Not going to get that out of a DM12.
Korg are not trying to sell to me this to me though. They know I'm looking at the Prologue and thinking I want a modulation matrix/patchbay.
Korg have been nice to me over the years, they were my first synths and I learnt how to program on them. If I didn't have them at the start, I'd not be looking for a little more on the modulations aspect of the Prologue.
I'm glad they are going to be a new generation's first synths too. I remember what it felt like to need to look at the manual to know what the M1's envelopes extra bits were for on the day I got it, it's a humbling yet mind blowing experience. Perhaps that is what Korg meant when they said it'd be "mind blowing"? (don't hate me for saying that, please!)
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I was really excited to hear about this.
First lets look at the positives...
1: Someone other than DSI is making a well built, true analogue synth with VCO's and bags of polyphony for under Ł2000! :)
2: it has 3 oscillators including one that can be user assigned.
3: It's bi-timbral
4: Voices can be layered and split, effectively giving you a 6 oscillators to craft a sound...nice. :)
5:Two displays (LED & OLED) for navigating the synth.
6: Analogue compressor on the 16 voice model
7: Two effects (1 mod effect, 1 delay/reverb) per voice
8: It's built using aluminium & oak and looks the business! :)
So far so good - but now for the negatives...
1: To get 16 voices you must buy the 5 octave synth - there's no way to upgrade an 8 voice model to 16 voices like there is with the REV2.
2: No aftertouch on the keyboard!!!! I mean ffs - really? That's an unforgivable omission on a supposedly 'flagship' analogue synth IMO.
3: Only 1 LFO. If I could change anything about my beloved Prophet 12 & Rev2 it'd be to have more LFO's and they already have 4, so offering only one LFO feels like a serious limitation to me - even my Studiologic Sledge has 2!
4: Despite being bi-timbral the Prologue has only a single stereo output, it does not have separate stereo outputs for each sound like the Rev2 & Prophet 12 do.
5: Voice spread and compressor only available on the more expensive 16 voice model.
6: Did I mention no aftertouch...I mean seriously...wtf!!! :(
7: No auxiliary envelopes
It's such a shame that Korg chose to impose needless limitations on the Prologue.
Sure it'll still be a good synth, but with a little more thought it could have been a great one.
Include aftertouch, more LFO's, a couple of aux envelopes and separate stereo outputs for the voices would have made a world of difference IMO
As it is, I'd be thinking I've paid Ł1700 for this and there's not even any bloody aftertouch!!!
Good to see Korg throwing their hat in the ring though - over to you DSI! :)
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From the manual it seems it can only send/receive Sysex patch to the edit buffer and not to a selected program. The other option is a whole bank dump. Not flexible. Hoped this would be able to do MPE and/or assign number of voices per layer. Not clear the effects are per layer or applied to both layers. The manual stated THE SUB MIDI CHANNEL cannot use the same MIDI channel as the main voice. So that makes one wonder if each layer is fixed to 8 voices on the 16 (4 on the 8 ) and not possible to use a single layer with 16 ? There is no CC or NRPN provided at all for the 2 layers lets not even talk about globals and effects. Feeling a bit hopeless with so many new products on the market now with crippled MIDI implementations and/or documentation. .More reasons for the REV2 and that compared with features the price is a couple of $100 too high. (anyhow no one cares anymore what things are priced versus costs as long as it's cool) With economies of scale and scope Korg has they must be able to produce at lower rates (yes of-course they have more total overhead but what gives).
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When I saw it, for me, it was "Well, they had just copied the P06" when they did the Minilogue is terms that they did a 4 VCo analog synth and now, they are just copying the Rev2...Fot the moment, and for the past few years, DSI has been leading in term of new "mind blowing synth" with huge capability at any price point, form 1500$ to 3000$...
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It's kind of stunning how similar the Prologue's voice architecture is to that of the Moog Little Phatty.
Two VCOs with shape control, octave control, and sync, a VCF with drive and EG intensity (or amount), one simple LFO with pitch, filter, and shape destinations and intensity (amount). The Little Phatty's modulation buss is a little more interesting (with VCO2 as a potential modulation source, and a couple more destinations), and the Prologue's digital VCO really brings quite a bit of complexity to a voice. The Little Phatty also lacks aftertouch.
It's a perfectly serviceable architecture with a long heritage, and it sounds like it's implemented well here. It's meant to be a real musical instrument instead of a groundbreaking piece of technology. You know, except for that whole section where it's a groundbreaking piece of technology.
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From the manual it seems it can only send/receive Sysex patch to the edit buffer and not to a selected program. The other option is a whole bank dump. Not flexible. Hoped this would be able to do MPE and/or assign number of voices per layer. Not clear the effects are per layer or applied to both layers. The manual stated THE SUB MIDI CHANNEL cannot use the same MIDI channel as the main voice. So that makes one wonder if each layer is fixed to 8 voices on the 16 (4 on the 8 ) and not possible to use a single layer with 16 ? There is no CC or NRPN provided at all for the 2 layers lets not even talk about globals and effects. Feeling a bit hopeless with so many new products on the market now with crippled MIDI implementations and/or documentation. .More reasons for the REV2 and that compared with features the price is a couple of $100 too high. (anyhow no one cares anymore what things are priced versus costs as long as it's cool) With economies of scale and scope Korg has they must be able to produce at lower rates (yes of-course they have more total overhead but what gives).
But I'd bet that you can hook it up to a DAW, set Local Off, and it will just work–I was thinking about this earlier as I rolled through the REV2 forum posts; perhaps Korg has a better grasp of their target market within that price band?
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What I'm wondering is how much the user base is going to get out of this machine... To get the most evolved sounds, time must be spent tweaking through software. It would have been nice if they had unveiled it along with the app to see/hear some of its full potential. One would hope they're planning on at least previewing the SDK at NAMM, although it seems like they're not ready to do that.
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What I'm wondering is how much the user base is going to get out of this machine... To get the most evolved sounds, time must be spent tweaking through software. It would have been nice if they had unveiled it along with the app to see/hear some of its full potential. One would hope they're planning on at least previewing the SDK at NAMM, although it seems like they're not ready to do that.
The app/editor is supposed to be released in spring. Even the manual is still vague about the according possibilities, referring to a keyword/link on Korg's website that doesn't exist yet.
From what I've read to far, I assume that the greatest potential is going to be there for people who are able to code themselves. For them, it'll also be possible to design and add their own effects.
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I think KORG are going for a combination of accessibility as with regards to the front panel (it's quite similar to i.e. Little Phatty, structure wise), with some extras for people who can be bothered to dive into it.
I read up a little more on the MULTI engine, and it has a couple of FM type modes (and others) where the shape controls the mod depth, but you can also press shift+shape to change the ratio of the modulator. The manual also revealed that there's actually a mod AD envelope under "Button 7" that is dedicated to the MULTI ENGINE. The MULTI ENGINE can also be routed post filter if desired which means that there are a lot of extra timbres available, especially if you layer sounds.
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Any videos of the 8 voice version?
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Finally Got around to watching the Sweetwater video on this thing. They usually do a pretty good job of demos in terms of a) sound quality and b) an instruments scope and breadth.
Meh... take it or leave it. Not overly impressed with the sound. If the Rev2 didn’t exist, it might be more tempting.
I’ll admit a bias here though. I am not a fan of effect drenched gear demos. I get it that the effects are built in and therefore integral to the synth, but first and foremost, it is a synthesizer.
My 2˘
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Finally Got around to watching the Sweetwater video on this thing. They usually do a pretty good job of demos in terms of a) sound quality and b) an instruments scope and breadth.
Meh... take it or leave it. Not overly impressed with the sound. If the Rev2 didn’t exist, it might be more tempting.
I’ll admit a bias here though. I am not a fan of effect drenched gear demos. I get it that the effects are built in and therefore integral to the synth, but first and foremost, it is a synthesizer.
My 2˘
Have to agree that effects should complement a patch, not complete it. A good patch should stand on it's own.
As much as I expect good effect section out of a Korg 2 course dinner synth, it should be the desert, not the main meal.
BTW I just noticed there is no Ext input. That's an odd omission considering Korg's inclusion of it on the last two 'logues. How is anyone to attempt to emulate Tetra feedback without it? Crikey!
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Having that quality and amount of types of reverb onboard is admittedly a huge plus. It's actually the one sound function of the Prologue that I'm envious of.
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I am not a fan of effect drenched gear demos. I get it that the effects are built in and therefore integral to the synth, but first and foremost, it is a synthesizer.
Exactly. We all use effects, but you don't want to need them because the base character of your synthesizer is mediocre. You want to use effects in order to enhance that which already sounds good. That's why I, too, always want to hear some substantial demonstrations of a new instrument with no effects, so that I can be certain nothing is being hidden from my ears. Again, you could run a broken kazoo through an Eventide and it would sound magnificent, but no thanks to the kazoo.
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I am not a fan of effect drenched gear demos. I get it that the effects are built in and therefore integral to the synth, but first and foremost, it is a synthesizer.
Exactly. We all use effects, but you don't want to need them because the base character of your synthesizer is mediocre. You want to use effects in order to enhance that which already sounds good. That's why I, too, always want to hear some substantial demonstrations of a new instrument with no effects, so that I can be certain nothing is being hidden from my ears. Again, you could run a broken kazoo through an Eventide and it would sound magnificent, but no thanks to the kazoo.
I would actually love if Eventide partnered with a synth company and had some of their effects on board a synth.
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I am not a fan of effect drenched gear demos. I get it that the effects are built in and therefore integral to the synth, but first and foremost, it is a synthesizer.
Exactly. We all use effects, but you don't want to need them because the base character of your synthesizer is mediocre. You want to use effects in order to enhance that which already sounds good. That's why I, too, always want to hear some substantial demonstrations of a new instrument with no effects, so that I can be certain nothing is being hidden from my ears. Again, you could run a broken kazoo through an Eventide and it would sound magnificent, but no thanks to the kazoo.
I would actually love if Eventide partnered with a synth company and had some of their effects on board a synth.
If nothing from NAMM excites me this year, I’ll likely pick up an Eventide H3000 (or other model, but those are getting priced right on the second hand market) just to run my synths through... https://youtu.be/ecyZFnMAo7o (https://youtu.be/ecyZFnMAo7o)
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I am not a fan of effect drenched gear demos. I get it that the effects are built in and therefore integral to the synth, but first and foremost, it is a synthesizer.
Exactly. We all use effects, but you don't want to need them because the base character of your synthesizer is mediocre. You want to use effects in order to enhance that which already sounds good. That's why I, too, always want to hear some substantial demonstrations of a new instrument with no effects, so that I can be certain nothing is being hidden from my ears. Again, you could run a broken kazoo through an Eventide and it would sound magnificent, but no thanks to the kazoo.
I would actually love if Eventide partnered with a synth company and had some of their effects on board a synth.
If nothing from NAMM excites me this year, I’ll likely pick up an Eventide H3000 (or other model, but those are getting priced right on the second hand market) just to run my synths through... https://youtu.be/ecyZFnMAo7o (https://youtu.be/ecyZFnMAo7o)
Yeah I was looking at an Eclipse myself.
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I am not a fan of effect drenched gear demos. I get it that the effects are built in and therefore integral to the synth, but first and foremost, it is a synthesizer.
Exactly. We all use effects, but you don't want to need them because the base character of your synthesizer is mediocre. You want to use effects in order to enhance that which already sounds good. That's why I, too, always want to hear some substantial demonstrations of a new instrument with no effects, so that I can be certain nothing is being hidden from my ears. Again, you could run a broken kazoo through an Eventide and it would sound magnificent, but no thanks to the kazoo.
I would actually love if Eventide partnered with a synth company and had some of their effects on board a synth.
If nothing from NAMM excites me this year, I’ll likely pick up an Eventide H3000 (or other model, but those are getting priced right on the second hand market) just to run my synths through... https://youtu.be/ecyZFnMAo7o (https://youtu.be/ecyZFnMAo7o)
Yeah I was looking at an Eclipse myself.
Those are also awesome sounding units.
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I am not a fan of effect drenched gear demos. I get it that the effects are built in and therefore integral to the synth, but first and foremost, it is a synthesizer.
Exactly. We all use effects, but you don't want to need them because the base character of your synthesizer is mediocre. You want to use effects in order to enhance that which already sounds good. That's why I, too, always want to hear some substantial demonstrations of a new instrument with no effects, so that I can be certain nothing is being hidden from my ears. Again, you could run a broken kazoo through an Eventide and it would sound magnificent, but no thanks to the kazoo.
I would actually love if Eventide partnered with a synth company and had some of their effects on board a synth.
Ditto. I wasn't complaining about the Eventide, but about any synthesizer that needs an Eventide in order to sound good.
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I am not a fan of effect drenched gear demos. I get it that the effects are built in and therefore integral to the synth, but first and foremost, it is a synthesizer.
Exactly. We all use effects, but you don't want to need them because the base character of your synthesizer is mediocre. You want to use effects in order to enhance that which already sounds good. That's why I, too, always want to hear some substantial demonstrations of a new instrument with no effects, so that I can be certain nothing is being hidden from my ears. Again, you could run a broken kazoo through an Eventide and it would sound magnificent, but no thanks to the kazoo.
I would actually love if Eventide partnered with a synth company and had some of their effects on board a synth.
Ditto. I wasn't complaining about the Eventide, but about any synthesizer that needs an Eventide in order to sound good.
That’s an important distinction.
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I am not a fan of effect drenched gear demos. I get it that the effects are built in and therefore integral to the synth, but first and foremost, it is a synthesizer.
Exactly. We all use effects, but you don't want to need them because the base character of your synthesizer is mediocre. You want to use effects in order to enhance that which already sounds good. That's why I, too, always want to hear some substantial demonstrations of a new instrument with no effects, so that I can be certain nothing is being hidden from my ears. Again, you could run a broken kazoo through an Eventide and it would sound magnificent, but no thanks to the kazoo.
I would actually love if Eventide partnered with a synth company and had some of their effects on board a synth.
Ditto. I wasn't complaining about the Eventide, but about any synthesizer that needs an Eventide in order to sound good.
Actually two effects that I’d like to see in a new OS update for the P6 or REV2 or even the next DSI synth are “Reverse” and “Harmonizer”.
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I am not a fan of effect drenched gear demos. I get it that the effects are built in and therefore integral to the synth, but first and foremost, it is a synthesizer.
Exactly. We all use effects, but you don't want to need them because the base character of your synthesizer is mediocre. You want to use effects in order to enhance that which already sounds good. That's why I, too, always want to hear some substantial demonstrations of a new instrument with no effects, so that I can be certain nothing is being hidden from my ears. Again, you could run a broken kazoo through an Eventide and it would sound magnificent, but no thanks to the kazoo.
I would actually love if Eventide partnered with a synth company and had some of their effects on board a synth.
Ditto. I wasn't complaining about the Eventide, but about any synthesizer that needs an Eventide in order to sound good.
Actually two effects that I’d like to see in a new OS update for the P6 or REV2 or even the next DSI synth are “Reverse” and “Harmonizer”.
and the likely response will be ;D:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qc7jblpaPdM
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and the likely response will be ;D:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qc7jblpaPdM
Yep, he'll probably be told to go buy a tape recorder and play back his parts in reverse or hire a second keyboardist to harmonize with or given some other unhelpful aggro suggestions.
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Honestly I can see why it’s frustrating for DSI with the feature requests. So I don’t blame them if they get a bit aggravated. Ultimately they want to move on to the next thing not keep going back to synths that are a few years old now trying to add new things. My only gripe is that when stuff is requested on an old synth they don’t implement it on their next one.
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That's just not the way to interact with customers at all. With the ability of software updates these days, it's pretty much a given that there will be streamlining even with relatively cheap products. Perhaps asking for extra effects is not realistic, but such additions would certainly go a long way with customers, especially considering what the competition is offering these days. Also to directly tie it into this thread, why the lack of a feature such as aftertouch on a flagship model in 2018 is making people raise an eyebrow as they very well should.
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Hey folks, let's not carry over the feature request discussion from the Rev2 subforum to this rather unrelated thread. I'm not writing this to shut people down, but I can sense a growing passive aggressive tone that I believe isn't very fruitful for the future climate of this forum.
As for those comments about feature requests, I would also like to point out that it doesn't make sense to measure a comparably tiny company like DSI against manufacturers like Korg, as they simply don't share the same resources, neither in terms of employee numbers nor—which is related to that—in terms of exclusive firmware maintenance time. There is no large division for past products and one for future developments. In a small company like DSI, most people have to take care of many different tasks simultaneously.
The latter simply means that it sometimes takes a bit of patience while you're waiting for OS updates or bug fixes. Yes, that can be frustrating at times, which has also already been acknowledged on behalf of DSI on a number of occasions. But there's certainly not an evil masterplan behind all that, like a willful strategy for letting down customers. Quite the opposite is the case: The tech support is very responsive and will usually get back to you within 24 hours. These people also make sure that in those cases where parts have to be swapped, things will be handled as straightforward as possible both in terms of repairs and shipping.
The reason why it can take a bit longer now and then is simply a company with less than 20 employees, a not inconsiderable number of instruments to take care of—most of which have a flagship status—, and finally the fact that they're still developing new products each year to keep us gear nerds happy.
So, let's all take a deep breath and try to engage in a more constructive conversation, not least because there are human beings that like to be treated fairly on each side.
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Open (or better put, extensible) firmware, for both oscillator and for FX slots, is a smart idea, but it requires a tacit positive assessment regarding the ability of one's end users (or third-party developers) to deliver something of value to a design outside of the traditional product development process.
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Hey folks, let's not carry over the feature request discussion from the Rev2 subforum to this rather unrelated thread. I'm not writing this to shut people down, but I can sense a growing passive aggressive tone that I believe isn't very fruitful for the future climate of this forum.
As for those comments about feature requests, I would also like to point out that it doesn't make sense to measure a comparably tiny company like DSI against manufacturers like Korg, as they simply don't share the same resources, neither in terms of employee numbers nor—which is related to that—in terms of exclusive firmware maintenance time. There is no large division for past products and one for future developments. In a small company like DSI, most people have to take care of many different tasks simultaneously.
The latter simply means that it sometimes takes a bit of patience while you're waiting for OS updates or bug fixes. Yes, that can be frustrating at times, which has also already been acknowledged on behalf of DSI on a number of occasions. But there's certainly not an evil masterplan behind all that, like a willful strategy for letting down customers. Quite the opposite is the case: The tech support is very responsive and will usually get back to you within 24 hours. These people also make sure that in those cases where parts have to be swapped, things will be handled as straightforward as possible both in terms of repairs and shipping.
The reason why it can take a bit longer now and then is simply a company with less than 20 employees, a not inconsiderable number of instruments to take care of—most of which have a flagship status—, and finally the fact that they're still developing new products each year to keep us gear nerds happy.
So, let's all take a deep breath and try to engage in a more constructive conversation, not least because there are human beings that like to be treated fairly on each side.
Agreed.
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Hey folks, let's not carry over the feature request discussion from the Rev2 subforum to this rather unrelated thread. I'm not writing this to shut people down, but I can sense a growing passive aggressive tone that I believe isn't very fruitful for the future climate of this forum.
As for those comments about feature requests, I would also like to point out that it doesn't make sense to measure a comparably tiny company like DSI against manufacturers like Korg, as they simply don't share the same resources, neither in terms of employee numbers nor—which is related to that—in terms of exclusive firmware maintenance time. There is no large division for past products and one for future developments. In a small company like DSI, most people have to take care of many different tasks simultaneously.
The latter simply means that it sometimes takes a bit of patience while you're waiting for OS updates or bug fixes. Yes, that can be frustrating at times, which has also already been acknowledged on behalf of DSI on a number of occasions. But there's certainly not an evil masterplan behind all that, like a willful strategy for letting down customers. Quite the opposite is the case: The tech support is very responsive and will usually get back to you within 24 hours. These people also make sure that in those cases where parts have to be swapped, things will be handled as straightforward as possible both in terms of repairs and shipping.
The reason why it can take a bit longer now and then is simply a company with less than 20 employees, a not inconsiderable number of instruments to take care of—most of which have a flagship status—, and finally the fact that they're still developing new products each year to keep us gear nerds happy.
So, let's all take a deep breath and try to engage in a more constructive conversation, not least because there are human beings that like to be treated fairly on each side.
Agreed.
I honestly don’t get all these feature requests. Bug fixes, sure. That’s different. But demanding features that were never advertised or promised? That borders on moronic.
Imagine the guy who buys a car, takes it back to the dealership after a couple months, and demands the dealership add a navigation system. They might do it if you PAID for it, but otherwise, they start laughing.
When you buy an item, it generally comes as is — that is certainly true as to features.
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It's called entitlement. :'( We want it, so therefore, we should get it. :'(
DSI is an excellent company, but they're limited in what they can provide, due to their small size. To hold them to the standard of other massive companies is unreasonable.
Whatever features they advertise with the release of a new instrument they are duty-bound to provide, together with the necessary fixes to get those features working properly. We can all agree on that. But above and beyond it, added features are just that, and the company should feel no obligation to continue to multiply them.
I think DSI sincerely tries to respond to people's reasonable requests for extra features. So, the whining that occasionally appears here, merely because some people don't get exactly what they want, is ridiculous, as if DSI didn't respond to requests simply because they didn't feel like it. And insulting someone is sure a strange way of trying to persuade him or her to grant your requests.
Those of you who like to mouth off ought to reflect on the fact that DSI is gracious enough to allow you to come on their own forum and publically complain about their products and insult their service, even though they've done nothing wrong and broken no promises or obligations to you. And that they treat you with such and patience and respect in return is rather shocking.
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Hey folks, let's not carry over the feature request discussion from the Rev2 subforum to this rather unrelated thread. I'm not writing this to shut people down, but I can sense a growing passive aggressive tone that I believe isn't very fruitful for the future climate of this forum.
As for those comments about feature requests, I would also like to point out that it doesn't make sense to measure a comparably tiny company like DSI against manufacturers like Korg, as they simply don't share the same resources, neither in terms of employee numbers nor—which is related to that—in terms of exclusive firmware maintenance time. There is no large division for past products and one for future developments. In a small company like DSI, most people have to take care of many different tasks simultaneously.
The latter simply means that it sometimes takes a bit of patience while you're waiting for OS updates or bug fixes. Yes, that can be frustrating at times, which has also already been acknowledged on behalf of DSI on a number of occasions. But there's certainly not an evil masterplan behind all that, like a willful strategy for letting down customers. Quite the opposite is the case: The tech support is very responsive and will usually get back to you within 24 hours. These people also make sure that in those cases where parts have to be swapped, things will be handled as straightforward as possible both in terms of repairs and shipping.
The reason why it can take a bit longer now and then is simply a company with less than 20 employees, a not inconsiderable number of instruments to take care of—most of which have a flagship status—, and finally the fact that they're still developing new products each year to keep us gear nerds happy.
So, let's all take a deep breath and try to engage in a more constructive conversation, not least because there are human beings that like to be treated fairly on each side.
Agreed.
I honestly don’t get all these feature requests. Bug fixes, sure. That’s different. But demanding features that were never advertised or promised? That borders on moronic.
Imagine the guy who buys a car, takes it back to the dealership after a couple months, and demands the dealership add a navigation system. They might do it if you PAID for it, but otherwise, they start laughing.
When you buy an item, it generally comes as is — that is certainly true as to features.
I think for me personally my requests usually revolve around the sequencer. So you can transpose it without having to hold down record and also sequencer midi out. I’m not holding my breath on either but my frustration was it was requested with the Prophet 6 ,then the OB6 And now on the REV2 it still hasn’t been done. Like I understand not having the resources to go back and implement it but repeating the same thing on your next synth seems a bit silly when you already know what the reaction is going to be. Ultimately though, it’s Dave’s decision. If he doesn’t want to do it or is set in his ways then honestly I think the best thing to do would be to do what they did with the Tempest. Officially announce that there will be no more OS updates or new features or address why certain features can’t be implemented. I honestly feel bad for a lot of the DSI staff on here cause they have to play referee or be the go between and that’s never fun.
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Hey folks, let's not carry over the feature request discussion from the Rev2 subforum to this rather unrelated thread. I'm not writing this to shut people down, but I can sense a growing passive aggressive tone that I believe isn't very fruitful for the future climate of this forum.
As for those comments about feature requests, I would also like to point out that it doesn't make sense to measure a comparably tiny company like DSI against manufacturers like Korg, as they simply don't share the same resources, neither in terms of employee numbers nor—which is related to that—in terms of exclusive firmware maintenance time. There is no large division for past products and one for future developments. In a small company like DSI, most people have to take care of many different tasks simultaneously.
The latter simply means that it sometimes takes a bit of patience while you're waiting for OS updates or bug fixes. Yes, that can be frustrating at times, which has also already been acknowledged on behalf of DSI on a number of occasions. But there's certainly not an evil masterplan behind all that, like a willful strategy for letting down customers. Quite the opposite is the case: The tech support is very responsive and will usually get back to you within 24 hours. These people also make sure that in those cases where parts have to be swapped, things will be handled as straightforward as possible both in terms of repairs and shipping.
The reason why it can take a bit longer now and then is simply a company with less than 20 employees, a not inconsiderable number of instruments to take care of—most of which have a flagship status—, and finally the fact that they're still developing new products each year to keep us gear nerds happy.
So, let's all take a deep breath and try to engage in a more constructive conversation, not least because there are human beings that like to be treated fairly on each side.
That's very reasonable and thought out post(very thoughtful of folks on all sides)....and I agree with a lot if not all...but my thinking is of the P6/OB6 not the REV2...going forward I'll keep it in it's respective forum.
on the other hand(not related to post quoted):
on cue, here come the LECTURES..topped off with character attacks of fellow customers in the community. That's NOT right and I think it's out of line/will turn people away and it's a negative experience for users...I think the point is being proven in real time..
Don't bash folks for wondering what's commonplace in the synth market(feature requests)...it's innocent and not deserving of attack. As a matter of fact, I'd say these requests are a service to DSI because it gives them ideas of what customers want/need in current and future products. "they're ALL a bunch of entitled people"...really?
The majority of things people REQUEST, ARE fixes or to enhance the usability of the product....for example:
The arp on the P6/OB6 is not syncable IMO unless you're practically a human sequencer, in a live situation, forget it....really takes the fun and usefulness out of it.......you shouldn't have to have a sequencer to trigger an arp to get the most out of it(especially on a current gen premium product). That's very reasonable and from what I read HERE it was being considered some time ago(TY), so DSI might see something to that.
The sequencer thing I agree with Lobo(look how carefully he thinks he has to tread!), and lots of folks have requested(NOT demanded, that's a HUGE TWIST)...that's another thing but I understand you could have read the manual before you bought it......
Being cold/dismissive is getting to be the rep on these things and it's not because "they're ALL a bunch of entitled people"....one sounds crazy saying that. People get run off like this and no one is doing DSI any favors with this approach.
I'm a huge fan of DSI, and I'm a huge advocate for their products(and friendly service, I could share an awesome story about a great experience with them...but I'll keep it to myself to be respectful ;))
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Make your requests to have things fixed. That's fine; no one objects to that. But do it with some dignity and decency. What part did the video above play in making your case? It only hurt it. The fact is, DSI never responds to reasonable requests in that way.
We've been through this before. From time to time, a few posters will cross the line and spoil this forum with their attitudes and rudeness. And yes, it's definitely entitlement. It says, "Gimmie this now or I'm going to start stamping my feet!" No one wants to read it, okay? It turns people off who come to this forum for decent and serious conversation about instruments, and who don't want to see such rudeness. This is not Gearslutz.
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Make your requests to have things fixed. That's fine; no one objects to that. But do it with some dignity and decency. What part did the video above play in making your case? It only hurt it. The fact is, DSI never responds to reasonable requests in that way.
We've been through this before. From time to time, a few posters will cross the line and make this forum a crap shoot with their attitudes and complaints. And yes, it's definitely entitlement. It says, "Gimmie this now or I'm going to start stamping my feet!" No one wants to read it, okay? It turns people off who come to this forum for decent and serious conversation and information about instruments, and who don't want to see such rudeness. This is not Gearslutz.
I disagree completely with some of your characterizations, respectfully.
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That's obvious. Can we just drop the soap opera now and get back to normal? Thank you.
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Can we just drop the soap opera now and get back to normal? Thank you.
I think that's good advice for EVERYONE...and you're welcome.
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This seems to offer the cleanest driest example of the instrument's sonic character I've heard so far:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwhwrNVM-1k
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This seems to offer the cleanest driest example of the instrument's sonic character I've heard so far:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwhwrNVM-1k
Okay, that's indeed one of the more decent demos in terms of excessive use of effects. This sounds pretty good to me and I got the impression that how the Prologue comes across sonically varies from demo to demo, which of course is not unusual. What still remains problematic, I think, is not only the single LFO, but the fact that it only allows for selecting one modulation destination at a time. That, combined with the absence of aftertouch as a possible modulation source, makes even the Prophet-6 and the OB-6 look like modulation monsters.
Open (or better put, extensible) firmware, for both oscillator and for FX slots, is a smart idea, but it requires a tacit positive assessment regarding the ability of one's end users (or third-party developers) to deliver something of value to a design outside of the traditional product development process.
That's true. The requirements it might take to make full use of the open source based digital side could turn this into a rather exclusive affair. What it could result in for most users, though, are probably additional digital waveform and effect packs one can buy.
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That, combined with the absence of aftertouch as a possible modulation source, makes even the Prophet-6 and the OB-6 look like modulation monsters.
Hah! That's funny. The catch with the P-6 and OB-6 is that - if one is willing and able - there is the pricey but worthy module option. I would love to have a few hours with a P-6 Keyboard-Module pair, because I think it would overcome some of the limitations in the simplicity of the instrument's design. If I remember correctly, you can use one of the audio oscillators for LFO purposes. That would give you two LFO's from each unit, and the pairing would restore the lost second audio oscillator. So, if someone was really crazy for either instrument, he or she could squeeze much more out of each by pairing.
I wonder if Korg will offer a Prologue Module option, as they did with the Odyssey and MS-20. That could compensate somewhat for the paucity of modulation.
I listened to the Prologue demo by Sweetwater. It's fairly impressive, if that's your kind of thing. I could see how some synthesists could find the Prologue to be a gem.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RY1gvTAw_Q
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I must admit I really like the sound of this synth, maybe there is something wrong with me!
A few months ago there was a synth gathering down my way. Afterwards there was a collection of "groups" playing in the evening, one of them was that guy from Sonic State doing a solo thing with a collections of synths. He put on a good show, one of the synths really stood out so at the end I drunkenly went up and asked him which synth was playing the particular parts and it was a Monologue, I was totally flabbergasted as every demo on the net I had listened too had not grabbed me in any way. I stumbled home thinking I have to get one of those.
I didn't but now I listen to the prologue demos and definitely think I could have one of those, if they did a module I might well get one.
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The question is, did you ever like the sound of the Monologue when you weren't drunk?
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I wonder if Korg will offer a Prologue Module option, as they did with the Odyssey and MS-20. That could compensate somewhat for the paucity of modulation.
That might depend on sales. After all, this is the first full-sized analog Korg synth since the 1980s, so they might wanna test the waters first. I could also see no module happening, as this is clearly designed to be a stand-alone performance instrument for which the attached keyboard is important—technically and conceptually I mean.
I must admit I really like the sound of this synth, maybe there is something wrong with me!
I don't think there's anything wrong with you. It definitely has its own character and does sound pleasing. The FX section also seems to be of high quality. It doesn't copy any of the current analog poly synths sonically, so it'll probably be a good complementary piece for something like a Prophet-6 or Rev2, also due to the digital oscillator of course.
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What still remains problematic, I think, is not only the single LFO, but the fact that it only allows for selecting one modulation destination at a time. That, combined with the absence of aftertouch as a possible modulation source, makes even the Prophet-6 and the OB-6 look like modulation monsters.
I can think of a few cases where sending one LFO to multiple destinations would be useful, but is it a must-have?
Stated differently: if Korg / Tatsuya Takahashi (who was responsible for a good portion of the design, and has continued with Korg in a consulting role) decided to forgo "(shaping) the functionality of (their) instruments based on what (their) competitors do", would that be as well-received, were it not DSI making that statement?
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I'm not sure that DSI's independent approach is so well-received. As far as I know, I'm the only one who has praised it here. But regarding Korg - as with DSI - it would all depend on the results. After all, isn't this what so many people praise about Buchla - his uniqueness, as compared with other synthesizer manufacturers?
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I can think of a few cases where sending one LFO to multiple destinations would be useful, but is it a must-have?
Not necessarily a must have and I'm a friend of limitations as well. But on the Prophet-6, for example, it helps in pushing it where you wouldn't initially think of. But this is of course no Prophet-6, but its own thing. Nevertheless, having the option to modulate more than one mod destination with one mod source adds a bit more variation.
Stated differently: if Korg / Tatsuya Takahashi (who was responsible for a good portion of the design, and has continued with Korg in a consulting role) decided to forgo "(shaping) the functionality of (their) instruments based on what (their) competitors do", would that be as well-received, were it not DSI making that statement?
I think that's even kind of necessary if you wanna come up with "your own thing." So that attitude is fine with me. And the Prologue also succeeded at that in providing a quite strange and unique mix: a fairly simple, though massive in voice number, analog poly engine and this rather adventurous open source based digital side.
And let's not forget that this is the first big poly synth—in terms of voices—that has been released ever since the Andromeda, that's not based on Curtis chips.
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I'm not sure that DSI's independent approach is so well-received. As far as I know, I'm the only one who has praised it here. But regarding Korg - as with DSI - it would all depend on the results. After all, isn't this what so many people praise about Buchla - his uniqueness, as compared with other synthesizer manufacturers?
I'm just not hearing anything unique about the Prologue though. I'm not saying it sounds horrid, there's a character to it but everything from the design to it's functions just scream "Basic". The third user Osc3 is a cool idea but it seems to be a bit of an afterthought really. It's all promising for eventualities with very little information present. It just feels incomplete.
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LoboLives, listen to this Sweetwater demonstration, if you haven't already:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RY1gvTAw_Q
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The third user Osc3 is a cool idea but it seems to be a bit of an afterthought really.
You think so? See, I thought the third oscillator was the whole shootin' match, the reason that somebody would buy the thing. The analog side is nice, but simple, and the digital oscillator is what sort of gives it some complexity.
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The third user Osc3 is a cool idea but it seems to be a bit of an afterthought really.
You think so? See, I thought the third oscillator was the whole shootin' match, the reason that somebody would buy the thing. The analog side is nice, but simple, and the digital oscillator is what sort of gives it some complexity.
Word. And is sort of a way to gauge if Korg should go the noodler's route I would think. Obviously there is a market for synths that are aimed at synth nerds (who don't have modulars) but to aim directly at them would be silly for Korg to do until they know that the customers will buy them in quantities that will bring in revenue. Who knows we might get another Wavestation-esque beast out of them in a year of so if the interest is there.
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The third user Osc3 is a cool idea but it seems to be a bit of an afterthought really.
You think so? See, I thought the third oscillator was the whole shootin' match, the reason that somebody would buy the thing. The analog side is nice, but simple, and the digital oscillator is what sort of gives it some complexity.
Word. And is sort of a way to gauge if Korg should go the noodler's route I would think. Obviously there is a market for synths that are aimed at synth nerds (who don't have modulars) but to aim directly at them would be silly for Korg to do until they know that the customers will buy them in quantities that will bring in revenue. Who knows we might get another Wavestation-esque beast out of them in a year of so if the interest is there.
See for me that basically means they’ve squeezed it in there as an experiment rather than a fully thought out concept. I appreciate it but I’d rather have seen the concept by itself in a stand-alone smaller synth. I know they wanted to test the waters but it seems more like an idea rather than finalized concept hence the waiting time until Spring.
Honestly if the concept was finalized now and they released a Wavestation type synth instead of the Prologue I wouldn’t care if there was aftertouch or not because it would be so different and I think that’s what a lot of synth heads would have scrambled for because it would have been so different than anything else. I know they are unsure of the market but $2599 for a basic analog synth isn’t going to really draw beginners because of the price and isn’t going to interest synth heads that much because the competition offers more for the money.
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Then you must be impressed with the Waldorf Quantum. Surely, that's different and a finalized concept.
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Then you must be impressed with the Waldorf Quantum. Surely, that's different and a finalized concept.
Different, yes. Finalized? Well... it is Waldorf so... ::)
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That's true. Bugs galore.
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That's true. Bugs galore.
The Waldorf faithful call those “features”.
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I guess they're optimists.
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The third user Osc3 is a cool idea but it seems to be a bit of an afterthought really.
You think so? See, I thought the third oscillator was the whole shootin' match, the reason that somebody would buy the thing. The analog side is nice, but simple, and the digital oscillator is what sort of gives it some complexity.
Word. And is sort of a way to gauge if Korg should go the noodler's route I would think. Obviously there is a market for synths that are aimed at synth nerds (who don't have modulars) but to aim directly at them would be silly for Korg to do until they know that the customers will buy them in quantities that will bring in revenue. Who knows we might get another Wavestation-esque beast out of them in a year of so if the interest is there.
See for me that basically means they’ve squeezed it in there as an experiment rather than a fully thought out concept. I appreciate it but I’d rather have seen the concept by itself in a stand-alone smaller synth. I know they wanted to test the waters but it seems more like an idea rather than finalized concept hence the waiting time until Spring.
Honestly if the concept was finalized now and they released a Wavestation type synth instead of the Prologue I wouldn’t care if there was aftertouch or not because it would be so different and I think that’s what a lot of synth heads would have scrambled for because it would have been so different than anything else. I know they are unsure of the market but $2599 for a basic analog synth isn’t going to really draw beginners because of the price and isn’t going to interest synth heads that much because the competition offers more for the money.
Yes, a small synth like a minKorg would have been a great way to introduce the concept. And yes I guess your are right, the newb isn't going to be spending a lot to learn about big synths.
Then you must be impressed with the Waldorf Quantum. Surely, that's different and a finalized concept.
Different, yes. Finalized? Well... it is Waldorf so... ::)
Oh dear, if it wasn't so true....LOL
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Then you must be impressed with the Waldorf Quantum. Surely, that's different and a finalized concept.
For me the Quantum seems to be a jack of all trades and master of few. I haven't been impressed with any of the demos and the concept seems to try and focus on too many concepts without perfecting one. Just do a nice big blue Waldorf Wave 2 and be done with it.
Also how in the hell can the Quantum have no FM and how can it only be bitimbral? You are telling me the Blofeld is more powerful than the Quantum?
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Also how in the hell can the Quantum have no FM and how can it only be bitimbral? You are telling me the Blofeld is more powerful than the Quantum?
Over in the Quantum thread there's a video that features an extensive feature overview, just the basics though. I think a lack of features is not really what the Quantum is about.
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After more and more demos from NAMM, I think the right attribute for my impression about the Prologue's sound would be "vanilla." Of course one still has to test synths in person, but as of now there's nothing that particularly draws me to it.
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Also how in the hell can the Quantum have no FM and how can it only be bitimbral? You are telling me the Blofeld is more powerful than the Quantum?
Over in the Quantum thread there's a video that features an extensive feature overview, just the basics though. I think a lack of features is not really what the Quantum is about.
After hearing Waldorf's design strategy for this synth, I get the no FM. They wanted to do something new. Sure they included Wavetables and VA -- both of which are clearly in Waldorf's wheelhouse, but on top of that they've done a resonator (which can be fed by ANY sample / wave content) and granular / traditional sampler.
I'd say they've built a monster.
Bi-timbral also doesn't bother me. It's not a workstation. And these days, I think, most people use a DAW for multi-timbrality. "Most people". That certainly doesn't mean I'm criticizing anyone who doesn't. I admire people who want to have 8 parts going live and can keep up. My head simply can't move that fast!
With 8 voices, I probably wouldn't even use the bi-timbrality much, except for perhaps a 7 voice patch and a mono arpeggiated patch on top of it (which the Quantum allows for, if I heard them correctly).
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After more and more demos from NAMM, I think the right attribute for my impression about the Prologue's sound would be "vanilla." Of course one still has to test synths in person, but as of now there's nothing that particularly draws me to it.
Maybe French Vanilla, but I haven't heard anything to make me prefer it over a Rev2.
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After more and more demos from NAMM, I think the right attribute for my impression about the Prologue's sound would be "vanilla." Of course one still has to test synths in person, but as of now there's nothing that particularly draws me to it.
Maybe French Vanilla, but I haven't heard anything to make me prefer it over a Rev2.
Nah, just vanilla. And yes, at its price point and with its synthesis features the Rev2 runs circles around the Prologue, at least as far as the analog side goes.
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Nah, just vanilla. And yes, at its price point and with its synthesis features the Rev2 runs circles around the Prologue, at least as far as the analog side goes.
True. There's no comparison there.
I would also imagine that a good number of people would consider the Prophet 12 over the Prologue. Even with it being 50% more expensive.
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After more and more demos from NAMM, I think the right attribute for my impression about the Prologue's sound would be "vanilla." Of course one still has to test synths in person, but as of now there's nothing that particularly draws me to it.
Though you must admit, Korg do vanilla really well.
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After more and more demos from NAMM, I think the right attribute for my impression about the Prologue's sound would be "vanilla." Of course one still has to test synths in person, but as of now there's nothing that particularly draws me to it.
Though you must admit, Korg do vanilla really well.
Well-built, Japanese-tech vanilla....
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I think the Prologue sounds interesting, especially with the digital oscillator and programable waveshaping combined with the analogue oscillators. The VCOs also sound good to me (16 is nice). I do wish it had a second LFO, aftertouch and a sequencer but I understand they were trying to get the price down. Nevertheless, if I didn't have an analogue polysynth I would probably spend a little extra for a prophet 6 as it just sounds a little better to my ears (plus has a sequencer and aftertouch). I already have a Prophet 6 though (and an OB6 module) so I probably won't buy the Prologue, but I'm still considering.
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I don't think the DSI sound and the Japanese analog sound are really comparable, or take each other's place....I think the prologue sounds awesome...really. I think it would make a great contrast to the American sounding P6/OB6. You have a few flavors of that sound, but only Korg has really delivered in the analog world for new stuff from the big 3 Japanese companies.
But seriously, you're getting bitimbral 16 voice discrete vcos with what sounds like an awesome filter with a 3rd digital oscillator that can do fm/wavetables, awesome effects and analog comp...man, not a lot to dislike....it IS a good deal on the Prologue, and it looks to be very well built. People want to put a VS. between DSI and Korg...I think they would compliment each other nicely!
Just like I think classic Roland anapolys compliment the American sounding Sequential and Oberheim sounds, I think this Korg would compliment them as well.
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I don't think the DSI sound and the Japanese analog sound are really comparable, or take each other's place....I think the prologue sounds awesome...really. I think it would make a great contrast to the American sounding P6/OB6. You have a few flavors of that sound, but only Korg has really delivered in the analog world for new stuff from the big 3 Japanese companies.
But seriously, you're getting bitimbral 16 voice discrete vcos with what sounds like an awesome filter with a 3rd digital oscillator that can do fm/wavetables, awesome effects and analog comp...man, not a lot to dislike....it IS a good deal on the Prologue, and it looks to be very well built. People want to put a VS. between DSI and Korg...I think they would compliment each other nicely!
Just like I think classic Roland anapolys compliment the American sounding Sequential and Oberheim sounds, I think this Korg would compliment them as well.
I will agree it does have it's own unique voice. I just wish you didn't have to purchase a whole new synth from switching from 8 to 16 voices. I just want 8 voices...but I also want five octaves...those sadists!
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I don't think the DSI sound and the Japanese analog sound are really comparable, or take each other's place....I think the prologue sounds awesome...really. I think it would make a great contrast to the American sounding P6/OB6. You have a few flavors of that sound, but only Korg has really delivered in the analog world for new stuff from the big 3 Japanese companies.
But seriously, you're getting bitimbral 16 voice discrete vcos with what sounds like an awesome filter with a 3rd digital oscillator that can do fm/wavetables, awesome effects and analog comp...man, not a lot to dislike....it IS a good deal on the Prologue, and it looks to be very well built. People want to put a VS. between DSI and Korg...I think they would compliment each other nicely!
Just like I think classic Roland anapolys compliment the American sounding Sequential and Oberheim sounds, I think this Korg would compliment them as well.
I will agree it does have it's own unique voice. I just wish you didn't have to purchase a whole new synth from switching from 8 to 16 voices. I just want 8 voices...but I also want five octaves...those sadists!
LOL! I hear ya, but hey....if you want 8 voices just use the Layer mode...BAM!, 8 voice 6 oscillator per voice synth with 2 lfos ;D
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I don't think the DSI sound and the Japanese analog sound are really comparable, or take each other's place....I think the prologue sounds awesome...really. I think it would make a great contrast to the American sounding P6/OB6. You have a few flavors of that sound, but only Korg has really delivered in the analog world for new stuff from the big 3 Japanese companies.
But seriously, you're getting bitimbral 16 voice discrete vcos with what sounds like an awesome filter with a 3rd digital oscillator that can do fm/wavetables, awesome effects and analog comp...man, not a lot to dislike....it IS a good deal on the Prologue, and it looks to be very well built. People want to put a VS. between DSI and Korg...I think they would compliment each other nicely!
Just like I think classic Roland anapolys compliment the American sounding Sequential and Oberheim sounds, I think this Korg would compliment them as well.
I will agree it does have it's own unique voice. I just wish you didn't have to purchase a whole new synth from switching from 8 to 16 voices. I just want 8 voices...but I also want five octaves...those sadists!
LOL! I hear ya, but hey....if you want 8 voices just use the Layer mode...BAM!, 8 voice 6 oscillator per voice synth with 2 lfos ;D
LOL
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By the way - did anyone notice the number of John Bowen-authored presets on the Prologue? ;)
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After more and more demos from NAMM, I think the right attribute for my impression about the Prologue's sound would be "vanilla." Of course one still has to test synths in person, but as of now there's nothing that particularly draws me to it.
Having retrieved mine (16-voice) from Sweetwater earlier in the day, I'd have to admit that many of the presets are opinionated toward a more aggressive filter drive, though it is quite useful to have a 0% | 50% | 100% drive toggle switch.
The 12dB-per-octave filter response is quite smooth, including when overdriven / pushed into self-resonance, in a manner somewhat unlike the other *logues.
My gut instinct is that the Prologue will require a bit of time spent learning the under-the-hood features, in order to maximize its potential. And there's a lot there, even if you don't touch the hybrid oscillator (a rabbit hole, if you ask me).
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Its main differentiating potential is something most users won't even bother with because: 1) most people who buy these instruments probably prefer tweaking via knobs 2) most users don't know how to program. At very least they should have a software interface like Serum that allows for both inputting algorithms and some kind of visual representation. It's kind of baffling who this is marketed towards, but again, I think the Korg/logue branding and voice count will do most of the selling.
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I don't think the DSI sound and the Japanese analog sound are really comparable, or take each other's place....I think the prologue sounds awesome...really. I think it would make a great contrast to the American sounding P6/OB6. You have a few flavors of that sound, but only Korg has really delivered in the analog world for new stuff from the big 3 Japanese companies.
But seriously, you're getting bitimbral 16 voice discrete vcos with what sounds like an awesome filter with a 3rd digital oscillator that can do fm/wavetables, awesome effects and analog comp...man, not a lot to dislike....it IS a good deal on the Prologue, and it looks to be very well built. People want to put a VS. between DSI and Korg...I think they would compliment each other nicely!
Just like I think classic Roland anapolys compliment the American sounding Sequential and Oberheim sounds, I think this Korg would compliment them as well.
I will agree it does have it's own unique voice. I just wish you didn't have to purchase a whole new synth from switching from 8 to 16 voices. I just want 8 voices...but I also want five octaves...those sadists!
LOL! I hear ya, but hey....if you want 8 voices just use the Layer mode...BAM!, 8 voice 6 oscillator per voice synth with 2 lfos ;D
LOL
You know...I laughed at this originally....but then I started thinking.....I'm going to try that in the store...with the Prologue and REV2.
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People want to put a VS. between DSI and Korg
That part made me reread about 5 times before I read it as "verses" rather than "Vector Synth" lol
You know...I laughed at this originally....but then I started thinking.....I'm going to try that in the store...with the Prologue and REV2.
It is a tempting instrument. I want to own another Korg synth that made me program with the same enthusiasm I did the M1 all those years ago, but I need my moneys for my modular sampling synth!
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People want to put a VS. between DSI and Korg
That part made me reread about 5 times before I read it as "verses" rather than "Vector Synth" lol
You know...I laughed at this originally....but then I started thinking.....I'm going to try that in the store...with the Prologue and REV2.
It is a tempting instrument. I want to own another Korg synth that made me program with the same enthusiasm I did the M1 all those years ago, but I need my moneys for my modular sampling synth!
I think for me I may be kind of spent on analog gear. I got a Tempest, a Moog Sub 37 and Prophet 6 with an Oberheim Two Voice Pro ,2 ARP Odyssey modules and Prophet REV2 on the way. As nice as it sounds I'm not sure how useful I would find getting another analog poly unless it offered multitimbrality or MPE or something different.
So my focus now is more sample based or digital (FM, Wavetable, VS) type tones.
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As nice as it sounds I'm not sure how useful I would find getting another analog poly unless it offered multitimbrality or MPE or something different.
So my focus now is more sample based or digital (FM, Wavetable, VS) type tones.
...which is exactly what the Prologue's Hybrid Engine could provide. The VPM option handles a good majority of FM options, and the wavetable model is built-in as standard.
And it wouldn't be impossible to create a simple user oscillator model with VS timbres, either.
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As nice as it sounds I'm not sure how useful I would find getting another analog poly unless it offered multitimbrality or MPE or something different.
So my focus now is more sample based or digital (FM, Wavetable, VS) type tones.
...which is exactly what the Prologue's Hybrid Engine could provide. The VPM option handles a good majority of FM options, and the wavetable model is built-in as standard.
And it wouldn't be impossible to create a simple user oscillator model with VS timbres, either.
I think if it was more than a single digital oscillator I would go for it.
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I have owned DSI Prophet 08' and Prophet 6 and currently own Korg Prologue 16. Heres what i think. DSI definitely has Korg on modulation, especially Rev2. I was going to buy Rev2 - 16voice but i kept hearing people were having issues with voice cards. I personally liked the Rev2 sound better than the Prophet 6 and im guessing its the Curtis filter. Sound wise Korg is very different from both of the above DSI synths. Alot of the sounds on it are great and some will surprise you when you think its the Digital 3rd osc. and its actually the two Analog osc. by themselves. Does that mean it sounds digital, certainly not. The Prologues sound seems to be rich harmonically speaking. The large majority of editing sounds via knobs is mainly done with what you see on the panel, unlike menu diving on a Kingkorg which i didnt care for. I rarely have to enter the menu system on prologue except for Reverb type which annoys me to death. Dave has them beat on the layout of the effects setup. I think Korgs reverbs are deeper sounding which i really like. I dont think the extra $500 is worth it for the LF compressor which i rarely use but the 61 keys and 16 voices is worth it. The Prophet 6 lacks in that respect. An extra octave and 16 voices is a big difference. The Prophet 6 does its thing and very well. I would encourage everyone to try these instruments in person if possible because i bought the P6 based on sounds from videos on youtube and when i got it, it just wasnt me. Dave Smith seems like a really nice guy and i like his products. Everyone is trying to achieve different things with these machines so listen to them in person rather than sh*tting on something youve never played on. Music is supposed to be fun!
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Music is supposed to be fun!
Ah yes indeed it is, though there are many folks who treat it like sport with the teams being different instruments, instrument makers and genres.
Cheers for the informed opinion on the synths. Now if only Korg would do a desktop version. Not everyone has a keyboard tree nor the height to reach the top of a 3 tier and still play well.
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I was going to buy Rev2 - 16voice but i kept hearing people were having issues with voice cards. I personally liked the Rev2 sound better than the Prophet 6 and im guessing its the Curtis filter.
The Rev2 doesn't have voice cards like the Prophet-6. What is it that you're hearing regarding voice issues?
The filters do sound quite different between the Rev2 and the P6, so that is likely what you're hearing.
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So I sent the Prologue 16 back, after two weeks of putting up with unusual tuning gremlins in the lower octaves / random squawks in the middle range. It's just not yet ready for live performance, and surely not complete, in the QC sense of the word.
If those issues are resolved in the future, perhaps I'll consider a used 8-voice unit, but frankly, after some comparisons with other gear, the overall tone just isn't there (in spite of the differences due to the 2-pole filter). I'm purely speculating, but I think that the digital FX section is always in-circuit; that might account for the lack of headroom with more complex patches.
The spec is great, but the execution leaves much to be desired-which (as an aside) is going to make life somewhat complicated / "interesting" for the Korg USA folks, now that they're distributing Waldorf as well.
What I replaced it with, on the other hand... ;) ...see profile change!
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What I replaced it with, on the other hand... ;) ...see profile change!
NICE! Congrats!!!
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What I replaced it with, on the other hand... ;) ...see profile change!
NICE! Congrats!!!
Thanks–I've been lusting after an OB-6 as the missing link for a long time–with a Matrix-6 doing OB-bender duty (and serving as a five-octave controller + 12-voice DCO-based synth, in tandem with my Matrix-1000).
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What I replaced it with, on the other hand... ;) ...see profile change!
NICE! Congrats!!!
Thanks–I've been lusting after an OB-6 as the missing link for a long time–with a Matrix-6 doing OB-bender duty (and serving as a five-octave controller + 12-voice DCO-based synth, in tandem with my Matrix-1000).
Sounds KILLER! Cool setup, that will keep you busy lol, neat to have some old school OB controller action to use with the OB6. Good sounds just seem to fall out of the OB6 pretty easily, and the dang thing is built like a tank too, sounds and looks purrrrrrrdy, and evil looking in the dark lol(when on obviously)! Have fun!
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What I replaced it with, on the other hand... ;) ...see profile change!
NICE! Congrats!!!
Thanks–I've been lusting after an OB-6 as the missing link for a long time–with a Matrix-6 doing OB-bender duty (and serving as a five-octave controller + 12-voice DCO-based synth, in tandem with my Matrix-1000).
I think a big miststep on the OB-6 was having the basic DSI pitch and mod wheels. It would have been so unique and refreshing to have the Oberheim Benders on that baby.
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So I sent the Prologue 16 back, after two weeks of putting up with unusual tuning gremlins in the lower octaves / random squawks in the middle range. It's just not yet ready for live performance, and surely not complete, in the QC sense of the word.
If those issues are resolved in the future, perhaps I'll consider a used 8-voice unit, but frankly, after some comparisons with other gear, the overall tone just isn't there (in spite of the differences due to the 2-pole filter). I'm purely speculating, but I think that the digital FX section is always in-circuit; that might account for the lack of headroom with more complex patches.
The spec is great, but the execution leaves much to be desired-which (as an aside) is going to make life somewhat complicated / "interesting" for the Korg USA folks, now that they're distributing Waldorf as well.
What I replaced it with, on the other hand... ;) ...see profile change!
Congrats on the OB-6 acquisition. Love mine to death. I've noticed that Sweetwater has your unit back on sale as a demo for $1799.99. "Demo" isn't the correct way to list this if it was malfunctioning as you say. Not too sure about them (sweetwater) now after this. Seems kind of shady on their part. Oh well.
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I've noticed that Sweetwater has your unit back on sale as a demo for $1799.99. "Demo" isn't the correct way to list this if it was malfunctioning as you say. Not too sure about them (sweetwater) now after this. Seems kind of shady on their part. Oh well.
They had that one available before I returned mine, though.
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I've noticed that Sweetwater has your unit back on sale as a demo for $1799.99. "Demo" isn't the correct way to list this if it was malfunctioning as you say. Not too sure about them (sweetwater) now after this. Seems kind of shady on their part. Oh well.
They had that one available before I returned mine, though.
I take it back then. Thanks for letting me know.
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Prologue-16 definitely doesn't like staying in tune until warmed up. Had lots of issues but firmware 1.10 fixed most.
I noticed LF comp. makes low volume static noise when nothing playing is that normal for a compressor? Guitar centers used section is pretty good for cheaper gear. I just saw a Prophet 12 module on there for $1300. Picked up a MINT used Roland TR-08 for $260. Not too bad in my opinion.
DavidDever you weren't by chance an oldskool trance DJ from Philly back in the day were you?
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Prologue-16 definitely doesn't like staying in tune until warmed up. Had lots of issues but firmware 1.10 fixed most.
I noticed LF comp. makes low volume static noise when nothing playing is that normal for a compressor? Guitar centers used section is pretty good for cheaper gear. I just saw a Prophet 12 module on there for $1300. Picked up a MINT used Roland TR-08 for $260. Not too bad in my opinion.
DavidDever you weren't by chance an oldskool trance DJ from Philly back in the day were you?
Nope, other corner of the state. Love me some Philly though.