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OTHER DISCUSSIONS => General Synthesis => Other Hardware/Software => Topic started by: NemoSynth on January 10, 2016, 09:10:53 PM

Title: KORG minilogue
Post by: NemoSynth on January 10, 2016, 09:10:53 PM
Hi,

Perhaps you all know from the article on Matrixsynth, KORG is rumored to announce an analog four voice polysynth named "minilogue". It got 2VCO per voice, cross modulation capability, unison mode, some program memory slots, three octaves slim mini keys same as their MS-20mini, and surprisingly a tiny oscilloscope where you can see the waveforms in action.

May be it's targeted to the price range of about a grand from where the DSI recently retreated from?? The good point about the DSI models are the modulation matrix which you probably won't find on KORG's analog synths, but there is no more models around that is more affordable than mopho x4 anymore, so may be KORG minilogue will try to invade this zone??

We'll soon see in the forthcoming Winter NAMM though.
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: chysn on January 11, 2016, 07:19:48 AM
I'm looking forward to hearing this. Although there's no chance of my buying this, I'm glad to see Korg making new analog synths again that aren't copies. I've always admired their innovative edge, and feared that they were losing it.

Quote
May be it's targeted to the price range of about a grand from where the DSI recently retreated from??

I can't imagine that it's going to be anywhere near $1000, where it would be rightfully eaten alive by the X4. Probably six hundred bucks U.S.
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: Paul Dither on January 11, 2016, 07:30:28 AM
We already talked a bit about it in the general NAMM thread over here: http://forum.davesmithinstruments.com/index.php/topic,206.0.html (http://forum.davesmithinstruments.com/index.php/topic,206.0.html)

From a reliable source (a retailer in the US) I've heard that it's supposed to be less than $500, so I would assume $499. Korg are also planning to lower the prices of the Odyssey to $799 because they are not selling as well as they thought.
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: Paul Dither on January 11, 2016, 09:13:38 PM
Looks like my source was right:

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-VUwTjX3schM/VpRQIEthJtI/AAAAAAAKJaU/svfVzPyZYz8/s1600/PQtLyVM.jpg)

http://www.matrixsynth.com/2016/01/new-korg-minilogue-four-voice-analog.html (http://www.matrixsynth.com/2016/01/new-korg-minilogue-four-voice-analog.html)
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: Strange Quark Star on January 12, 2016, 12:05:08 PM
Unbelievable.
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: dslsynth on January 12, 2016, 12:22:48 PM
Just compare Korgs way of operation to how DSI works. DSI are only doing design and let others handle the manufacturing. Korg got all the production facilities they need and adding a new instrument is primarily a question of ensuring the new components are available when the manufacturing starts. The rest is already up and running. Plus they manufacture in a much cheaper place than DSI does. All sums up to a much cheaper machine.

Will be interesting to hear how it works out in practice including how it sounds. Wonder what filter it have and what type of oscillators it got (VCO, DCO, Digital).
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: Paul Dither on January 12, 2016, 12:26:20 PM
Will be interesting to hear how it works out in practice including how it sounds. Wonder what filter it have and what type of oscillators it got (VCO, DCO, Digital).

VCOs if the front panel doesn't lie.
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: chysn on January 12, 2016, 03:51:30 PM
Just compare Korgs way of operation to how DSI works. DSI are only doing design and let others handle the manufacturing. Korg got all the production facilities they need and adding a new instrument is primarily a question of ensuring the new components are available when the manufacturing starts. The rest is already up and running. Plus they manufacture in a much cheaper place than DSI does. All sums up to a much cheaper machine.

And but also don't forget that Korg builds their stuff like crap. I'm a big Korg fan, always have been, but they build their stuff like crap. Korg flexes and creaks along its plasticy joints as its silkscreens wear away and its finishes grow cloudy from--who knows--too much oxygen in the air. They didn't used to be this way; the M1 was built like a brick #*!&house, the Wavestation like a gorgeously-engineered tank. But then the Prophecy wasn't made to last, and they just went downhill. It sucks because the insides are usually brilliant.

I'll take something that's built like a musical instrument, thank you very much, not like a cell phone.

(I know I'm making assumptions here, as nobody's ever seen this thing. But it's a pretty safe assumption.)
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: Paul Dither on January 12, 2016, 03:55:42 PM
And but also don't forget that Korg builds their stuff like crap. I'm a big Korg fan, always have been, but they build their stuff like crap. Korg flexes and creaks along its plasticy joints as its silkscreens wear away and its finishes grow cloudy from--who knows--too much oxygen in the air. They didn't used to be this way; the M1 was built like a brick #*!&house, the Wavestation like a gorgeously-engineered tank. But then the Prophecy wasn't made to last, and they just went downhill. It sucks because the insides are usually brilliant.

+1
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: dslsynth on January 12, 2016, 04:15:03 PM
[...] and its finishes grow cloudy from--who knows--too much oxygen in the air.

Not to worry! DSI instruments can be made to behave in the same way. One just gotta use the right type of cleaning (http://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2010/02/23/things_i_wont_work_with_dioxygen_difluoride).

Another thing is that it would probably be cheaper for DSI to use cases in metal than with plastic given how expensive it is to set up new molds for plastic products. Here Korg have an edge (and quite a bit of experience).
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 12, 2016, 04:33:28 PM
Absolutely.  There's no comparing the quality of Korg and DSI instruments.  I'm more than willing to pay the extra cost for a Dave Smith Instrument.  They are good, but just as important, they look good.  I find some of the Korg gear to be on the cheap side, like appliances.
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: eXode on January 13, 2016, 06:14:17 AM
Wow guys, If I didn't know better I'd say that you're acting pretty snob-like. You know you could also view it from an angle that KORG is doing something beautiful in bringing an affordable, hands-on polyphonic synthesizer to a large group of people that might not have had the resources otherwise. Not too far from what Dave Smith did with the MoPho and Tetra.

And the kids that buy the Minilogue today might very well become the adults that buy a premium instrument (i.e. like the Sequential Prophet-6) tomorrow.

Perhaps we can just agree that this instrument wasn't made for you (unless you want it to be) instead?
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 13, 2016, 08:32:17 AM
There's nothing snobbish in the opinion that something is cheap.  I've owned a number of cheap synthesizers before, and I'm glad I was able to afford them.  Am I a snob for thinking my own instruments were of a low quality?  But some of us are hoping for better things from Korg.  They certainly have the brains; if only they would apply them to a really fine new synthesizer of professional quality, rather than the predictable mass market mini or slim keys routine.  The synth market seems flooded with these small inexpensive instruments already. 

It makes me appreciate DSI all the more and the personal sacrifice required to buy and play a Dave Smith Instrument.
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: eXode on January 13, 2016, 08:52:54 AM
It wasn't directed at you Sacred Synthesis in particular. Your comment in context with the other comments posted before you (together) came across as snobbish.

Well, the Minilogue is said to be made of aluminum (panel) and wood (back) anyway.

New pic of the backside has surfaced from a french webshop.

(http://static.musicbusiness.fr/media/catalog/product/cache/9/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/m/i/minilogue-hd-98039.jpg)
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 13, 2016, 09:00:46 AM
It's certainly of an original design, and it does look rather sharp from the back.  Maybe it will sound decent, too.

Exode, here's my disclaimer: anything with less than full-sized keys completely turns me off.  I understand the usefulness of these little inexpensive instruments, but count me out.  That's admittedly my bias, and I'm sorry if it sounds snobbish.  It's more like ideals that are frequently frustrated.  But I'd like to see Korg take its decades of experience and produce something full-sized, powerful, and brilliant.  Even another ARP re-issue would be great.

I'm watching three companies closely - Korg, Moog, and DSI (I've given up on Roland).  I'm hoping one of these will finally produce the sort of analog mono synth that I've been searching for these past six years.  So far, it doesn't look like it's going to come from Korg.
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: Paul Dither on January 13, 2016, 09:13:56 AM
Wow guys, If I didn't know better I'd say that you're acting pretty snob-like. You know you could also view it from an angle that KORG is doing something beautiful in bringing an affordable, hands-on polyphonic synthesizer to a large group of people that might not have had the resources otherwise. Not too far from what Dave Smith did with the MoPho and Tetra.

And the kids that buy the Minilogue today might very well become the adults that buy a premium instrument (i.e. like the Sequential Prophet-6) tomorrow.

Perhaps we can just agree that this instrument wasn't made for you (unless you want it to be) instead?

Dunno whether I was addressed too. I agreed with chysn on the built quality based on the Kronos, which I thought to be more robust - especially in that price class.

As for the Minilogue, I haven't seen that particular pic yet and this certainly looks sturdy. In general, I'm quite happy that Korg offers this affordable gear, from the Volcas to the reissues and now this. I myself used to own a Monotron, a Monotribe, a MS-20 mini, and still own a Volca Beats. They're all fun and sound pleasant. If I was about to start now on a very tight and typical teenager's budget, I'd definitely get the Volca package and then some. Very good entry gear that can be used way past the entry stage and also makes a flexible live set-up.

Basically, the only reason I'm not too keen on the Minilogue is the minikeys, which I don't fancy on a polysynth. I'm still interested to hear how it sounds, though, and you won't see me using the "toy" word in a derogatory way. In the end, a Prophet-6 is just a toy too.
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: eXode on January 13, 2016, 10:14:29 AM
Exode, here's my disclaimer: anything with less than full-sized keys completely turns me off.  I understand the usefulness of these little inexpensive instruments, but count me out.  That's admittedly my bias, and I'm sorry if it sounds snobbish.  It's more like high ideals that are easily frustrated.  But I'd like to see Korg take its decades of experience and produce something full-sized, powerful, and brilliant.  Even another ARP re-issue would be great.

Dunno whether I was addressed too. I agreed with chysn on the built quality based on the Kronos, which I thought to be more robust - especially in that price class.

As for the Minilogue, I haven't seen that particular pic yet and this certainly looks sturdy. In general, I'm quite happy that Korg offers this affordable gear, from the Volcas to the reissues and now this. I myself used to own a Monotron, a Monotribe, a MS-20 mini, and still own a Volca Beats. They're all fun and sound pleasant. If I was about to start now on a very tight and typical teenager's budget, I'd definitely get the Volca package and then some. Very good entry gear that can be used way past the entry stage and also makes a flexible live set-up.

Basically, the only reason I'm not too keen on the Minilogue is the minikeys, which I don't fancy on a polysynth. I'm still interested to hear how it sounds, though, and you won't see me using the "toy" word in a derogatory way. In the end, a Prophet-6 is just a toy too.

I understand and respect your opinions on the matter. I know, for instance, that slim keys are a hot topic and not to everyone's taste (some people have big fingers, so there's the physical aspect as well).

I guess the reason I used the word snob was because I was surprised at how some of these comments were worded, especially since some of these comments, to me, seemed to be of lower quality than what I'd normally I expect from users on this forum.

Of course if anyone have a negative experience with a product, such an experience should be shared in a constructive and thoughtful way, in my humble opinion anyway. :)
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: chysn on January 13, 2016, 10:28:36 AM
I dunno. I think "snobbish" conveys condescending judgment about people, not about stuff. If I say that Korg stuff hasn't been well-made since 1995, and present a case for why I think that, I'm on pretty solid ground. If I were to say that "people who stoop to buying such stuff aren't real musicians," that would be snobbish. It would also be demonstrably untrue.

I think the Volca Beats is the best drum machine ever, and dare you to say I'm wrong. But I treat mine gingerly.
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: BobTheDog on January 13, 2016, 11:07:51 AM
I don't think that Korgs stuff is that badly built.

My Kronos 88 is nearly 4 years old, everything still feels ok, buttons, sliders joystick etc.

I got the Odyssey last year, that seems pretty good quality for the money. The MS20 re-issue is probably not quite the quality I would want but I guess the kit version is of higher quality.
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 13, 2016, 11:12:13 AM
Not to dwell on this too much, lest it become a soap opera.  But if there's one unexpected lesson I've learned from these synthesizer forums, it's that many people take instruments, not only seriously, but quite personally as well.  When I see an instrument presented for discussion, I instinctively go at it without another concern; it's an object, so let's pull it a part.  I'm commenting on an object, so I feel at liberty to criticize it without mercy.  Meanwhile, someone else on the forum who likes the instrument is offended by my - or some one else's - posted critical comments.  It tends to come to me as a surprise, because I forget how personally people get with instruments.  Honestly, it's a lesson that's hard to remember, and it tends to make one, not merely conscious of other peoples' feelings, but overly reserved in expressing views on an instrument.

A prime example of the complexity of the problem was the old DSI/Prophet Forum.  It was a forum for learning lessons, for certain, but our discussions were also more colorful and interesting.  By contrast, I find this new forum to be polite and reserved - all of us having cultivated proper forum behavior - but it's also quite a bit more boring.  Maybe you guys would disagree, but some times an excessive politeness is stifling.  I'm accustomed to quite a bit more frankness in my relations with others, with few apologies necessary.  Whereas, the whole internet universe is so socially artificial as to make it awkward and frustrating.  Hence, those little emoticons, which are so often used to try to keep yourself out of trouble for a comment you're about to post.   

It is difficult to balance substantive debate and discussion with sensitivity towards other peoples' feelings.  Some times I wonder if it's even worth the effort, since the end result is often polite but superficial conversation - light chatter. 

Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: BobTheDog on January 13, 2016, 11:25:37 AM
Don't worry, they will be more impolite posters along in a while.....
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 13, 2016, 11:54:01 AM
Heh, heh.  Well it's certainly not impoliteness that I'm missing. 
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: Paul Dither on January 13, 2016, 12:06:56 PM
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/9e/18/89/9e1889a57cc871194d43adb0513e36ae.jpg)
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: dslsynth on January 13, 2016, 12:07:32 PM
I would say: calm it down. Both sides have good points to make.

Some of us do not have very large gear budgets like those needed for DSI style jewels and there Korg's cheaper instruments are certainly welcomed! Its important for keeping a good forum spirit that small budget types are not frowned upon. Also there are good points to make on build quality even on DSI/Sequential instruments. Remember the wobbling pots discussion on a certain $2k instrument on the other forum? DSI makes great machines but they are certainly not perfect.

I think the Korg Minilogue is interesting in that its the first really affordable mass produced analog poly out there. Will be interesting to hear how it sounds and what the voices actually have to offer. And how DSI reacts to it. Hopefully not by continuing in the current jewel only direction. But its quite likely it could be so.
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 13, 2016, 12:30:52 PM
I think every discussion on this forum - including this one - is calm.  There's nothing to moderate, which certainly makes the job easy.
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: dslsynth on January 13, 2016, 12:37:44 PM
The calmness is good. Also I have the feeling that some of us moderate ourselves because the forum is moderated and hence a lot more restricted than the old forum. So it will be interesting to see how the forum and its mood evolves over time. Can go in both directions.

It was fun to see Sonic Talk today. Several panel members mentioned the Korg Minilogue but Nick Batt have signed a Korg NDA so he could not mention anything about it. Wonder how Korg reacts to what happened in that Sonic Talk show? Anyway the cat is out of the bag and its affordable. Just wondering how cute the purrs are and how nasty the claws can be.
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: Paul Dither on January 13, 2016, 01:41:16 PM
I think the Korg Minilogue is interesting in that its the first really affordable mass produced analog poly out there. Will be interesting to hear how it sounds and what the voices actually have to offer. And how DSI reacts to it. Hopefully not by continuing in the current jewel only direction. But its quite likely it could be so.

It will certainly create competition, which is always a good thing. No matter if it's for you or not, what is encouraging about it is the fact that this is no reissue, which might mean that Korg is going to continue in this direction.
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: Paul Dither on January 13, 2016, 01:42:41 PM
It was fun to see Sonic Talk today. Several panel members mentioned the Korg Minilogue but Nick Batt have signed a Korg NDA so he could not mention anything about it. Wonder how Korg reacts to what happened in that Sonic Talk show?

Well, they shut it down in the end, didn't they?  ;D
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: Paul Dither on January 13, 2016, 01:55:45 PM
New pic of the backside has surfaced from a french webshop.

(http://static.musicbusiness.fr/media/catalog/product/cache/9/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/m/i/minilogue-hd-98039.jpg)

I like the humor that went into this design choice.
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: BobTheDog on January 13, 2016, 02:11:57 PM
I think if this is really only $500 and it doesn't sound totally rubbish then they will sell loads of them.

Looks like it may have a couple of 3.5mm CV ports on the back as well, three 3/4 so maybe stereo out with an audio in as well, can't believe it will have a pedal input!


Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: Paul Dither on January 13, 2016, 02:13:24 PM
I think if this is really only $500 and it doesn't sound totally rubbish then they will sell loads of them.

Looks like it may have a couple of 3.5mm CV ports on the back as well, three 3/4 so maybe stereo out with an audio in as well, can't believe it will have a pedal input!

Could be though. And yes, the price is going to be $499.
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: chysn on January 13, 2016, 05:20:18 PM
I would say: calm it down.

Yeah, sorry. I guess we're straight going HAM all up in here.
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: Razmo on January 13, 2016, 05:21:11 PM
I think this forum is calm because DSI is hardly mingling with the forum members... which is both good and bad in a way... When DSI mingle, and make promises that they do not keep, then it's a playground for feeling abandoned, I know this, because I've witnessed this several times, from the dreaded Evolver bugs to the still missing 1.3.1 update for Prophet 12, or even the Tempest DIN bugs.

The reason I've calmed down personaly is simply due to the fact, that I don't trust DSI on updates anymore... not even when they say they will update something... I've tried trusting them... to no avail... and frankly I don't want to think about it anymore... also, I just don't want to keep on getting yelled at, for standing up for what I find is right to say about DSI, because no one else seems to give a shit about it, and rather want to participate in the "DSI is GOD!" tantrum... sorry, but that's the way I feel about it.

And no... it has nothing to do about the moderators in here... I would say whatever I think is justified... even if it meant I was banned from here... I know that my knowledge is valued as well, so it's simply up to the admins to decide if they want the whole package or nothing.

And please understand, that this reply is NOT meant to start any arguments about DSI... it's just a reply to say what I find the reason for the calmness is, and give my personal view on it.... but I may start complaining soon, if DSI do not give us that OS 1.3.1 for Prophet 12 they promised not long ago... I know they still need to do inside testing, but hey... we are willing to test for them if they just release the god darn beta like they used to!  ;)
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: DavidDever on January 13, 2016, 05:41:11 PM
That calmness might be the behind-the-scenes frenzy of a manufacturer getting things ready for NAMM. (I do sympathize, after many years of doing CES in Vegas....)
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 13, 2016, 06:12:58 PM
I've gotten the impression over the years that DSI has the best of intentions, but that they're a relaxed and laid back sort of company.  No, this is not the "small company excuse."  I think this reflects on Dave's character; the company is his personification.  When they promise they'll do something, generally they do it.  You just have to sometimes practice heroic patience.  It seems they bite off more than they can chew, so that fulfilling both their intentions and our requests is more than they can handle at first.  But generally, they sooner or later do what they said they'd do.  The Evolver is the exception, of course, but I presume this is because of its age.
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: Paul Dither on January 13, 2016, 11:24:39 PM
It's out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuZpEtZF-hg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuZpEtZF-hg)

Really clever feature list: taking a bit of everything that's currently out there in and around this price class. This is really going to kill the Boutique and Reface sales.
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: Razmo on January 14, 2016, 02:46:11 AM
If the Minilogue really keep that pricepoint, there is no need to think... I'll be getting one... It has preset storage, and that's what I need... it's polyphonic, has built in FX, and simply sound amazing to my ears... really like that live oscilloscope.

With this pricepoint, DSI finally got some competition, and will have to lower prices at some point... the Minilogue may not have as deep an engine, but that only adds to it's ease of use.

And if KORG has continued their thorough MIDI implementation on this, as on other products like Radias etc. then we FINALY have another company that I can add to my list of usable gear producers...

Only thing I'm irritated about is the fact that it has slim-keys, and no rack-version...
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: NemoSynth on January 14, 2016, 04:54:23 AM
Thanks everybody for all your posts. Didn't know that mopho x4 was discounting to about a grand in US, here in Japan it's much more expensive. Still, KORG minilogue is VERY affordable!! Right in the zone where DSI mopho and Tetr4 retreated. And we finally got another manufacturer who creates a genuine analog polysynth other than DSI, a competitor may be. No modulation matrix makes minilogue not a deep instrument but clever implementation of nifty features gives it a leg up, and very ease of use. Surely the minilogue will be an interesting model to play and edit, especially for newbies.
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 14, 2016, 06:15:04 AM
This is just the sort of capability and sound I'm looking for in a monophonic synthesizer, but the keyboard kills it for me.  If only it had three-and-a-half to four octaves of full-sized keys. 

The Minilogue will certainly effect ARP Odyssey sales, which haven't been great anyway.
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: chysn on January 14, 2016, 06:50:04 AM
This is just the sort of capability and sound I'm looking for in a monophonic synthesizer, but the keyboard kills it for me.  If only it had four octaves of full-sized keys.  The Minilogue will certainly effect ARP Odyssey sales, which haven't been great anyway.

So... perhaps we've covered this before in another universe, but why do you care about key size if you've already got 5-octave keyboards to play?
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 14, 2016, 07:16:07 AM
Meaning, why wouldn't I MIDI the Minilogue to a full-sized keyboard?  Because I'm looking for an independent full-sized analog mono synth, that's all; normal-sized keys with a long keyboard.  Otherwise, I'd get a Sub 37 and be done with it, but even 37 keys is too short a length.
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: eXode on January 14, 2016, 07:50:38 AM
I think Korg have been very clever. As far as I can tell, actual units are shipping to dealers (at least in the U.S.) as we speak which means that they'll be available pretty much immediately. Many vendors that announce new gear at NAMM often have their products coming out in the following 3 - 6 months.
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: Paul Dither on January 14, 2016, 10:26:38 AM
I think Korg have been very clever. As far as I can tell, actual units are shipping to dealers (at least in the U.S.) as we speak which means that they'll be available pretty much immediately. Many vendors that announce new gear at NAMM often have their products coming out in the following 3 - 6 months.

Indeed. And at the same time they minibruted the polysynth market as Marc Doty said earlier today.
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: BobTheDog on January 14, 2016, 11:19:24 AM
Having watched the video I predict they will sell shit loads of these things.

The side-chain mode was interesting, never seen that before on a synth.
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: Strange Quark Star on January 14, 2016, 12:36:20 PM
What an elegant and interesting design.

I particularly like the delay's features like high-pass filtering and variable output routing. Very clever and useful.

And they really did put a $500 price tag on it! It's now basically a simpler, fully analog microKORG with a nice interface and better keyboard plus a couple of nifty new features.
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: Paul Dither on January 14, 2016, 02:05:23 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmuStA0OtRU&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmuStA0OtRU&feature=youtu.be)
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 14, 2016, 06:59:21 PM
More in-depth demonstrations.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGeHKF_DrrA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzNiQfqkirE
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: Paul Dither on January 15, 2016, 01:30:00 PM
Got my hands onto one today. Very good built quality - amongst the best in that price category and even beyond, since the pots are mounted to the chassis, not the PCBs. It definitely has its own sound, it's not just a polyphonic MS-20. The shape mode offers some unique timbres for the triangle and saw waves. It reminds me a bit of the Minibrute - not necessarily in terms of sound, but uniqueness. It can sound modern, but also very old (think Radiophonic Workshop). The delay is indeed noisy, which adds a bit of vintage flair. It's pretty easy to handle right away. The short keyboard (not key size) makes sense. If there were more keys, you'd be tempted to play more than 4 notes, so that decision is absolutely fine. Although the display doesn't look super expensive, it still looks better than the one on the Sub 37. The oscilloscope is quite helpful and definitely more than just a geeky add-on. Make no mistake though: a Prophet-6 still sounds like a Rolls Royce next to it, but one shouldn't expect any wonders here. It still sounds great and will get you covered from strange experimental sounds to 80s pads. The only thing I missed was Sample & Hold. Otherwise, this is a steal. But maybe the competition is strong and there's something else coming up, since Korg announced this way early. Maybe they're afraid, once all the NAMM news are out, this will easily be overlooked, although I really can't imagine that this could be the case.
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: dslsynth on January 15, 2016, 01:46:20 PM
From the demos I have heard so far it sounds very good. One thing I will be very interested to hear is how well it sounds compared to Prophet-6 and Mopho x4.

I really love the idea of a wave shaper on the analog oscillators. Feel inspired, DSI!

Also I look forward to see Korg combining their software synthesizer experience with new analog designs for adventures into hybrid designs in the spirit of the Evolvers.

Anyone knows what the filter is from? Same as the MS20? New discrete design?
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: Paul Dither on January 15, 2016, 01:52:07 PM
From the demos I have heard so far it sounds very good. One thing I will be very interested to hear is how well it sounds compared to Prophet-6 and Mopho x4.

Well, like I said, the Prophet-6 sounds like a Rolls Royce next to it, definitely more hifi and weight.

Anyone knows what the filter is from? Same as the MS20? New discrete design?

No idea. It definitely sounds different from the MS-20 filter. Everything is said to have been built from scratch.
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: dslsynth on January 15, 2016, 01:55:31 PM
Well, like I said, the Prophet-6 sounds like a Rolls Royce next to it, definitely more hifi and weight.

Good news! So Prophet-6 still got an edge over Korg.
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: eXode on January 15, 2016, 02:01:47 PM
Anyone knows what the filter is from? Same as the MS20? New discrete design?

If I recall correctly, Korg stated that it was a new design based on OTA's. Overall the whole philosophy behind the Minilogue was to make something new, and by not being constrained by old designs was a factor that helped making it cheaper.
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: Paul Dither on January 15, 2016, 02:02:06 PM
Well, like I said, the Prophet-6 sounds like a Rolls Royce next to it, definitely more hifi and weight.

Good news! So Prophet-6 still got an edge over Korg.

Yeah, definitely. But the minilogue is still a damn fine synth, especially at this price point. Plus you don't see many poly synths with ring modulation, which is a big bonus here.
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: DavidDever on January 15, 2016, 02:33:55 PM
I also had a chance to check the Minilogue out at a local retailer today - odd thing is, I'm not as enamored of it as I thought I would be (even though my brain tells me that it should at least be as capable as a Mono/Poly); it seems to suffer from the same weedy sound that the Monotron / Monotribe do (this may be a consequence of the limited power supply rails). The bass end is tipped up as well; I checked this through a different set of monitors just to make sure....

It's very lightweight (I've had college textbooks that weighed more), and seems to be solidly built, likely perfect for the entry-level market at which it is aimed.

Also, the triangle wave strikes me as a bit odd in its behavior (I had to check the state of the front panel controls to make sure I didn't have osc sync on), as it plays an octave lower than the sawtooth or pulse waves.

The vintage delay is easy to use, but is a bit of a one-trick pony (both a plus as well as a minus).

Downsides? The small keys are OK (they're not mini keys), and I really missed the ability to modulate just one OSC (not both) independently of the other. There is very sparse labeling on the front panel, which I do understand as being a consequence of the manufacturing process.

Bottom line? It's the type of synth I'd buy and return within a week for a refund - not unique enough to want to keep around, and not fat enough to want to run around with to gigs with, in spite of its convenient size. For similar money (if you can get past the digital tone generation), the Roland System-1 is a better option (or the System-1m if you want some patchability) - in fact, I'm sure I've owned or heard VA synths that sounded more "analogue"...time to track down a Tetra or two, to be honest.
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: NemoSynth on January 17, 2016, 12:10:01 AM
I'm also sure that Tetr4 is a better choice, but marketing-wise perhaps minilogue will sell a lot I think, analog polysynth at $499.
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: eXode on January 17, 2016, 12:46:10 PM
I think it's amazing what Korg has done. A hands-on polyphonic synthesizer with some interesting features at a very competitive price, but for me the biggest deal breaker is actually the polyphony, and in some ways the keyboard (or rather, lack of a module).
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: NemoSynth on January 18, 2016, 02:37:38 AM
I see some of you saying 4 voice polyphony is not enough, but then what about Tetr4 or mopho x4?? I read a minilogue developer's web interview here in Japan in Japanese language, and the chief engineers said that having more polyphony like 8 voices would make it more like a product more oriented for keyboard players with playing technique, but 4 voice architecture would be not just minimum enough for playing but also suits well for production purposes where playing technique is not fully required.

I see this as a new sense of balance in product design, may be also the reason why there are so many synths with mini-keys. 4 voices and mini-keys are not just cheap, but also user friendly for new types of non-keyboardist musicians, like producers and track makers. Although it got no after touch, no modulation matrix, no normal sized keys, the minilogue's gonna sell a lot, because no analog polysynth at this price range existed before in the entire synth history.
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: eXode on January 18, 2016, 04:17:16 AM
I see some of you saying 4 voice polyphony is not enough, but then what about Tetr4 or mopho x4?? I read a minilogue developer's web interview here in Japan in Japanese language, and the chief engineers said that having more polyphony like 8 voices would make it more like a product more oriented for keyboard players with playing technique, but 4 voice architecture would be not just minimum enough for playing but also suits well for production purposes where playing technique is not fully required.

I see this as a new sense of balance in product design, may be also the reason why there are so many synths with mini-keys. 4 voices and mini-keys are not just cheap, but also user friendly for new types of non-keyboardist musicians, like producers and track makers. Although it got no after touch, no modulation matrix, no normal sized keys, the minilogue's gonna sell a lot, because no analog polysynth at this price range existed before in the entire synth history.

Well, I've owned both the Tetra and the Poly Evolver Keyboard. My own opinion on the matter is that Dave really nailed it back in the 70's with the "5". Of course it has a lot to do with playing style, but the ability to do at least an octave bass plus a 3 note chord is important for me as it's the kind of chords I enjoy doing. :)

I would have loved seeing the Tetra/MoPho voice as a 6 or even 8 voice keyboard with more hands-on control. The Prophet 08 has a sweet sound but I really loved the ability to make it dirtier/edgier on the Tetra (and the sub-oct helped too).

I have thought a great deal about getting some sort of analog poly, and for that I need 6 voices at the very minimum, hands-on control is a plus. The only real options for me is either the Prophet-6, the Prophet'08 or the Futuresonus Parva. The Parva while great on paper is still very new and seem to have some teething problems, I will be following it with great interest though. I think both the P-6 and P'08 are some of the best designed instruments in terms of hands-on control.

I'm curious to learn if there's anything else coming out that will rival Korg's offering. I guess we'll know in a couple of days.
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: Razmo on January 18, 2016, 05:29:14 AM
I really do not believe, that anything else will come out, that will compete with the Minilogue... at that pricepoint it's very unlikely unless either Roland or Yamaha has something up their sleeves, which I really don¨'t think they do.

In my opinion, the hype around the Minilogue is a result of the pricepoint... it really does not offer anything extremely unique when you look carefuly at the specs.

Personaly I'm really in conflict with myself about buying it... because what will it deliver, that my Prophet '08 cannot exept for some FX that I can add externaly anyway? ... Crossmod and Ringmod... My Prophet '12 can do this... The more I think about it, it will not really add much to my rig... but it sure is tempting because of the price, and I'm sure they'll be selling A LOT of these ... will probably be hard getting one I guess, untill sales has fallen a bit.

Personaly I'm looking for something unique... something I do not allready have, with an analog part... so I actualy switched more to the Waldorf Kassettenspieler to be honest.
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: eXode on January 18, 2016, 06:00:24 AM
I really do not believe, that anything else will come out, that will compete with the Minilogue... at that pricepoint it's very unlikely unless either Roland or Yamaha has something up their sleeves, which I really don¨'t think they do.

Perhaps not from a price point perspective, but price isn't everything. :)
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: Paul Dither on January 18, 2016, 10:00:15 AM
Yamaha might know something about what other manufacturers are going to release. I agree that it doesn't need to be so much about the price alone.

With regard to the features of the minilogue, I agree with Razmo. It definitely brings nothing exciting to the table if you own a Prophet '08 or a Prophet 12 already, but then I would assume that you don't belong to the target group Korg had in mind in the first place. This is really for those who can't afford any other poly synths and like to use something highly portable. This is also going to be for those who don't necessarily put playing techniques first.
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 18, 2016, 10:31:41 AM
To complete the explanation, I'd say the popularity of these miniature synthesizers is due to 1) cost, 2) space, and 3) the phenomenon of a large number of non-musicians using synthesizers.  This latter group is having an increasing influence on synthesizer manufacturers, so that a substantial amount of R+D is now devoted to making synthesizers that many serious musicians will find useless, due entirely to their size. 

I realize there are many instruments to go around for all sides, but here and there it results in a real misfortune.  Take as an example the exciting announcement that the ARP Odyssey would be re-issued, which only turned into a huge disappointment for many of us when it appeared in a totally unsatisfactory size.  The same with the MS-20 (except for the kit), the Minilogue, and how many other decent designs to come? 

Those of us who are serious musicians, but who don't have a lot of money to spend on instruments, find ourselves in the strange dilemma of seeing a growing number of desirable and affordable small instruments being produced in a shrunken format.  So, what are we to do?  Where are the new full-sized affordable synthesizers for less than $1500 that meet our needs?  Most of the bargains are now going in the minisynth direction.  Thank God for DSI, yet even they are retiring the smaller instruments.   
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: chysn on January 18, 2016, 11:05:27 AM
3) the phenomenon of a large number of non-musicians using synthesizers.

I suspect that the number of non-musicians using synthesizers is very close to zero. Non-keyboardist musicians maybe? Or non-professional musicians?

Quote
I realize there are many instruments to go around for all sides, but here and there it results in a real misfortune.  Take as an example the exciting announcement that the ARP Odyssey would be re-issued, which only turned into a huge disappointment for many of us when it appeared in a totally unsatisfactory size.  The same with the MS-20 (except for the kit), the Minilogue, and how many other decent designs to come?

The Odyssey, I think, is an odd duck. I don't think it was miniaturized to target the mass market, but rather to avoid upsetting the vintage market. "Having mini keys" plus "aimed at niche market" equals "poor sales," which is apparently the case for the Odyssey.

For those instruments that are aimed at the mass market, consider that they're there, in part, to finance the development of a small subset of instruments that you will be interested in. I would not be surprised if Korg's analog technology winds up in a flagship keyboard within a year. Korg likes to cram multiple synthesis engines into one box.
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: Paul Dither on January 18, 2016, 11:13:35 AM
I think Sacred Synthesis was referring to the term "non-musician" in the way that Brian Eno once coined it by using it for himself, i.e. not being interested in traditional playing techniques, etc. Think VCS3 or Buchla vs. Minimoog or Prophet-5.
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 18, 2016, 11:30:18 AM
By "non-musicians" I rather imprecisely include both literal non-musicians as well as any person who dabbles in music, without applying themselves too seriously to developing their knowledge, ability, and technique.  Even if you don't sit at a piano for hours playing scales and arpeggios, still, playing pieces/songs for hours can develop your ability, and I would certainly call this "applying" oneself to music. 

There's nothing wrong with dabbling in music and leaving it at that.  Music can remain a fun hobby and a quaint companion all through life, without ever becoming a serious pursuit.  I was such a "non-musician" for years myself.  My point is, it seems unique that such persons should have such a segment of the synthesizer market directed at them.  Yes, money is the name of the game.  But I find myself rolling my eyes and saying yet again, "Oh well; there goes another one."  Meaning, there goes another synthesizer that might have served me well, if only it had been full-sized.  I do find the frequency of this to be strange.

If Korg does this with an ARP 2600 re-issue, then my eyes are going to roll right out of their sockets.
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: eXode on January 18, 2016, 12:09:49 PM
If Korg does this with an ARP 2600 re-issue, then my eyes are going to roll right out of their sockets.

Well tbh the ARP2600 didn't have a keyboard by default, so that is actually one synthesizer I wouldn't mind seeing @ 86%.

This was made as a very ambitious DIY project by The Human Comparator (http://thehumancomparator.net/). A friend of mine built one, and it's really good. Sadly it's now discontinued.

(http://thehumancomparator.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/ttsh-desk1.jpg)
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: Paul Dither on January 18, 2016, 12:12:07 PM
I think we're dealing with a combination of things here. First of all, I have nothing against products that are aimed at not super wealthy customers and beginners, no matter what their take on music is.
What became a new old ingredient ever since the 'all things analog' revival, is clearly the element of nostalgia. We see a lot of affordable instruments that are paired with that. To some degree it's even part of products like the Volcas (and their lo-fi charme as some might say), but more so, of course, in the case of the reissues. It reminds me a bit of model car collections with the difference that you can actually "drive" these synth models. Still, they somehow appear souvenir sized and just like souvenirs they are collected as surrogates for a missed opportunity (aka "When I was a kid, I always saw this magic ARP in a local music store; now I can finally afford it thanks to Korg."). In a way a lot of the current gear market has to do with collecting. There's not only the annualy returning aim of trying to get the latest or newest piece, there is also a tendency of hoarding stuff, especially due to the highly portable size, which of course leads to a paradox. While the Eurorack market does probably represent something like the sophisticated end of that, it also applies to the numerous pieces that are aimed at people with a less geeky appeal. One indicator is the occurance of the many series that emerged over the past couple of years: Volca, Aira, Boutique, Reface, etc.
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 18, 2016, 01:32:21 PM
The ARP 2600 did have a wonderful four-octave keyboard with additional parameters to the left, but it was separate from the panel.
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: NemoSynth on January 18, 2016, 01:44:06 PM
The return to analog synth trend is a sense of nostalgia becoming a new fashion, I believe. Just like a pair of old looking denim jeans becoming a fashion for us all who have no experience of living back in 19th century when it was used commonly as a clothe for labour, we even stone wash them before waring them. Likewise, many of the analog synth users are younger generation who were born after the DX7 was launched. They don't know vintage analog synth in realtime, yet they sense a certain nostalgia that is transformed into a new fashion of their own. So it's cool to use analog synth, and also majority of them don't have playing technique so much but can create music in very interesting way like synchronizing multiple step sequencers etc. Hence, mini-keys and 4 voice polyphony, for not just cost and space but also for letting them feel invited to play even they don't have skilled playing technique.
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 18, 2016, 01:48:13 PM
I think we're dealing with a combination of things here. First of all, I have nothing against products that are aimed at not super wealthy customers and beginners, no matter what their take on music is.
What became a new old ingredient ever since the 'all things analog' revival, is clearly the element of nostalgia. We see a lot of affordable instruments that are paired with that. To some degree it's even part of products like the Volcas (and their lo-fi charme as some might say), but more so, of course, in the case of the reissues. It reminds me a bit of model car collections with the difference that you can actually "drive" these synth models. Still, they somehow appear souvenir sized and just like souvenirs they are collected as surrogates for a missed opportunity (aka "When I was a kid, I always saw this magic ARP in a local music store; now I can finally afford it thanks to Korg."). In a way a lot of the current gear market has to do with collecting. There's not only the annualy returning aim of trying to get the latest or newest piece, there is also a tendency of hoarding stuff, especially due to the highly portable size, which of course leads to a paradox. While the Eurorack market does probably represent something like the sophisticated end of that, it also applies to the numerous pieces that are aimed at people with a less geeky appeal. One indicator is the occurance of the many series that emerged over the past couple of years: Volca, Aira, Boutique, Reface, etc.

Yes, that's some times the case - nostalgia - but often it's not.  As a rule, I don't permit myself to indulge in nostalgia.  I don't think it's emotionally healthy to "put your hand to the plow and look back".  Hence, I have no vintage instrument and no re-issue.  In fact, I sold a beautiful Hammond XK 3c organ specifically because it sounded too much like the seventies and eighties. 

What I liked in the ARP synthesizer was its sound - the best to my ears of any other synthesizer, new or old - as well as its superb and immediate interface.  When I listen to a video of a Quadra or an Odyssey, I think, "Ah, beautiful and powerful all at once."  So, when I say I'd like to have a re-issued 2600 (or even a full-sized Odyssey), I'm not thinking about bringing back the good old days.  God forbid!  The last thing I want is to revive those "good" old days.  I'm simply considering all the available synthesizers and concluding that I like the ARP sound best of all.  If some one else will produce a brand new synthesizer with a brand new design and a sound that strikes my ear as preferable to the others, then I'm all for it; I'll happily buy their instruments.  I mean, I am the Evolver enthusiast on this forum.  I wouldn't exactly call the Evolvers nostalgic re-issues for balding middle-aged beer-bellied men who now want to play the Doors like they did in their teens.

Please don't over-simplify the vintage re-issue matter to mere nostalgia.  It's much deeper than that.  It has to do with experienced musical preferences and a dissatisfaction with modern instrument design and tone, together with the prudence not to fall for the "if-it's-newer-it-must-be-better" hysteria.  There's much to be said for an instrument that has withstood the test of time, versus the latest one that is being glamorously NAMMed today and tomorrow.
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: eXode on January 18, 2016, 02:02:17 PM
What I liked in the ARP synthesizer was its sound - the best to my ears of any other synthesizer, new or old.  When I listen to a video of a Quadra or an Odyssey

Semi O/T: Do you need a keyboard or could you make do with a desktop module? If you'd consider controlling a monophonic solo synth from one of your other keyboards I'd really recommend you to check out the Boomstar 4075. They have a fantastic sound. I haven't tried the 4075 in particular so I can't comment on it's likeness to an actual ARP, but if you have the possibility to try it out in a shop or similar, do it!
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: Paul Dither on January 18, 2016, 02:07:14 PM
Please don't over-simplify the vintage re-issue matter to mere nostalgia.  It's much deeper than that.  It has to do with experienced musical preferences and a dissatisfaction with modern instrument design.

I didn't mean to oversimplify, but there is a strong collector's trend that goes hand in hand (not exclusively) with the exploitation of nostalgia. The classic performing and composing musician would be more practical minded. What I mean by the latter is that there were quite a few musicians (especially touring ones) from the 1970s and 1980s that were happy to choose one workstation or one rather comprehensive synth over four to six different synths and whatnot. Instead, you often see people collecting a lot of little bits and ending up with a sort of patchwork of instruments - from actual beginner's devices to basically Eurorack.
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 18, 2016, 02:15:54 PM
What I liked in the ARP synthesizer was its sound - the best to my ears of any other synthesizer, new or old.  When I listen to a video of a Quadra or an Odyssey

Semi O/T: Do you need a keyboard or could you make do with a desktop module? If you'd consider controlling a monophonic solo synth from one of your other keyboards I'd really recommend you to check out the Boomstar 4075. They have a fantastic sound. I haven't tried the 4075 in particular so I can't comment on it's likeness to an actual ARP, but if you have the possibility to try it out in a shop or similar, do it!

Yes, that's a good suggestion, Exode.  I have considered the 4075 for that very reason.  I'm also considering a SEM.  And these would be controlled by one of my Prophet '08s or perhaps another synthesizer.
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: eXode on January 18, 2016, 02:30:15 PM
What I liked in the ARP synthesizer was its sound - the best to my ears of any other synthesizer, new or old.  When I listen to a video of a Quadra or an Odyssey

Semi O/T: Do you need a keyboard or could you make do with a desktop module? If you'd consider controlling a monophonic solo synth from one of your other keyboards I'd really recommend you to check out the Boomstar 4075. They have a fantastic sound. I haven't tried the 4075 in particular so I can't comment on it's likeness to an actual ARP, but if you have the possibility to try it out in a shop or similar, do it!

Yes, that's a good suggestion, Exode.  I have considered the 4075 for that very reason.  I'm also considering a SEM.  And these would be controlled by one of my Prophet '08s or perhaps another synthesizer.

I had the 5089 (Moog ladder filter) and it was great. Really excellent tone that I felt that few new analogs can match. Imho you'd probably need to go for an expensive modular to top that sound. Studio Electronics also did a great job in the amount of features they managed to put into it despite it's relatively small foot print. It's also built like a tank!

(http://www.sweetwater.com/images/closeup/750-Boomstar4075_detail3.jpg)
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: eXode on January 18, 2016, 02:30:50 PM
Sorry for the sidetrack! :)
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 18, 2016, 02:37:25 PM
Thanks for the information.
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: DavidDever on January 18, 2016, 03:25:33 PM
The Japanese miniaturization trend is IMHO a manifestation of the belief that their strongest brand statements lie in the past, and must be protected against the commoditization that is a part of the ever-changing valuations of vintage gear within the market. Therefore, we get dollhouse versions of their most famous products, all the while dodging the question as to whether they still have what it takes to release a killer, all-new-concept product into the market.

To their credit, Roland has some nice ASICs for digital sound generation and processing that drive their AIRA Modular and Boutique re-issues, so they're able to keep the costs low enough to make new product variations worthwhile - I'm not so sure that Korg and Yamaha have the same assets available to them.
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: chysn on January 18, 2016, 03:46:12 PM
The Japanese miniaturization trend is IMHO a manifestation of the belief that their strongest brand statements lie in the past, and must be protected against the commoditization that is a part of the ever-changing valuations of vintage gear within the market.

That's sort of a harsh assessment of the Japanese brands and their current offerings. And it doesn't explain the Odyssey, which was an American instrument by an American manufacturer. If what you say is true, Korg would be re-issuing the M1. Well, okay, they sort of did reissue the M1. But still, I think it's just as accurate to speculate that the Japanese like tiny little things because they're isolated on an island and put a premium on space.
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 18, 2016, 04:41:45 PM
The Odyssey, I think, is an odd duck. I don't think it was miniaturized to target the mass market, but rather to avoid upsetting the vintage market. "Having mini keys" plus "aimed at niche market" equals "poor sales," which is apparently the case for the Odyssey.

I've long thought this was a poor decision on Korg's part - making the Odyssey anything less than full-sized.  If they were expecting it to follow on the success of the MS-20 Mini, then they obviously didn't understand that the Odyssey was in an entirely different class.  The relative failure of this 86% version only proves the point.  Just look at vintage Odyssey prices on Ebay - $2,000-$4,000 for a scratched up 35-year old instrument with who knows how many internal problems.  Did Korg actually doubt that the very same people who gamble on Ebay would gladly pay $1,600 for a brand spanking new Odyssey with a full warranty and a suitcase?  It dazes me.  If they try the same with a 2600, I predict the same failure. 

Personally, I would willingly exchange a Poly Evolver in mint condition for a new 2600 - keyboard and all.  But for a shrunken 2600, I wouldn't give an old sneaker.
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: Paul Dither on January 18, 2016, 09:08:10 PM
I've long thought this was an unusually idiotic decision on Korg's part - making the Odyssey anything less than full-sized.  If they were expecting it to follow on the success of the MS-20 Mini, then they obviously didn't understand that the Odyssey was in an entirely different class.  The relative failure of this 86% version only proves the point.  Just look at vintage Odyssey prices on Ebay - $2,000-$4,000 for a scratched up 35-year old instrument with who knows how many internal problems.  Did Korg actually doubt that the very same people who gamble on Ebay would gladly pay $1,600 for a brand spanking new Odyssey with a full warranty and a suitcase?  It dazes me.  If they try the same with a 2600, I predict the same failure.

To be honest, I don't know of too many, who would have spend about $1,600 on a full-sized Odyssey reissue. That would have been an even greater disaster, because that way the Odyssey would have landed right in between the Sub 37 and the Pro 2. Without nostalgia, no one could justify that price. Keep in mind that you can also still get the full-sized MS-20 kit. The 1,000 exemplars were definitely not more popular than the more affordable mini version.

That the Odyssey is not a big hit everywhere may have to do with its uncommon architecture, or rather how it is represented on the front panel. In the beginning, I've read of many users having similar basic issues, because they just weren't used to the ARP layout.
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 19, 2016, 05:53:48 AM
I suppose Korg could have offered a full-sized Odyssey for much less than $1,600.  That wasn't my main point.  By making the instrument an odd 86%, they only kept a re-issue from being identical to the original, which makes no sense.  So close and yet so far.
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 19, 2016, 06:35:28 AM
Keep in mind that you can also still get the full-sized MS-20 kit. The 1,000 exemplars were definitely not more popular than the more affordable mini version.

That Korg charged $1,300-$1,400 for an instrument that still had to be assembled was shocking.  if it didn't sell like the Mini, it's because people didn't want to bother assembling it or risk doing it badly and possibly voiding the warranty.
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: eXode on January 19, 2016, 10:33:39 AM
I suppose Korg could have offered a full-sized Odyssey for much less than $1,600.  That wasn't my main point.  By making the instrument an odd 86%, they only kept a re-issue from being identical to the original, which makes no sense.  So close and yet so far.

I would have liked a desktop at that size though. :)

That's at least one thing Roland got right with the Boutiques.
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: NemoSynth on January 22, 2016, 04:50:23 AM
The major reason why there are so many synths with mini-keys is because there are so many new type of synth users who are not good at playing keyboards, like producers and track makers, or guitarists and drummers etc. It's not just price and space issue, but more of a marketing result to make synth friendly to wider range of customers who were interested to play a synth but were afraid of normal keys because they don't have good skills to play.

Also, I'm also not oversimplifying the trend of recent neo-analog synths as a mere nostalgia. As I wrote before, it's a sense of nostalgia that evolved into new fashion, like stone washed denim jeans that looks old but very stylish. May be people are getting tired of everything-possible-digital-synths, and everything-you-can-search-digital-information-society for so long, and prefer the limited but intuitive sensitive aspect of analog synth warmth.
Nowadays simple things like iOS apps are preferred than complicated workstation synths.
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: DavidDever on September 17, 2016, 09:52:58 AM
I had an opportunity to spend a bit of time with this recently, which might have tempered my previously negative view towards its sound quality...as my profile shows, I'm pretty familiar with the limitations of entry-level polysynths, which can either be embraced or escaped, depending on your perspective.

The minilogue's 2-/4-pole filter is pretty good, though it does not compensate for resonance level, which in some cases might end up a bit noisy when the resonance is 50% or so (as a lot of my patches are) due to the reduced noise floor. Double-saw or double-PWM patches are punchy with a bit of extra grit on the top end; for some, this might be all you need to know.

The VCOs open up a lot of possibilities as far as cross- and ring-modulation; the sawtooth wave is also sweepable by shape, though this precludes a traditional VCO1 saw + VCO2 PWM square patch as the PWM is global across both oscillators.

The envelopes do click (thump) a bit, which can be addressed with judicious use of the post-VCA HPF; similarly, as the LFO does not offer a sine wave as an option, there remains a fair bit of thump at both extremes when using a triangle wave as the modulator (by comparison, the Prophet '08 / Tetra / Mopho's triangle wave does not create nearly as audible an artifact).

And while it's nice to have a built-in delay, the problem lies with the fact that it's not sweepable (as with the Evolver / Prophet-12 / Pro-2), which is itself a missed trick. It would also be nice to see another LFO, or two, or three (env re-triggering). As others have pointed out, it has a propensity toward being a bit noisy.

The waveform display (I hesitate to call it an oscilloscope, as the timebase changes freely) can be switched off in favor of a parameter view (very handy when editing patches), or simple program-number-only view.

All in all, it's probably an excellent piece for someone who probably hasn't laid hands on an analogue synth in a while, though for those of us that might own a better-specified analogue unit (DCOs or otherwise), the limitations in modulation routing might be crippling-or not, if you like a challenge (or feel like soaking it in reverb further down the signal chain).

And I think that the minilogue's analogue voice itself would make, with better noise floor, more extensive modulation and control capabilities, an excellent-sounding synth voice as part of a larger device. It's just not all there yet, though I found myself lusting after a twin-layer, eight-or-more-voice unit with some patches.

I did not spend any time with the arpeggiator (seemed a bit wonky, compared to the better implementations I've seen) or the sequencer....
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: cr73645 on September 26, 2016, 06:09:31 PM
I got one a few days ago... I tried it three times in a row (consecutive days) and it grew on me. I'm now really excited for what it is: a great mini-sized analog synth.

Overall quality is good, with a poor touch only on the lever thing (which is nothing more than a loose metal piece inside - seen it on a video with that guy that cracks synthesizers inside out). Loving the size of the keys in comparison with regular mini-keys. Knobs feel good, as does switches.

One thing that should be noticed is the background noise that can be heard with some units. The unit I tested had a very noticeable noise. I'm not talking about the noisy delay, but ground noise from the unit. Even with the noise, I decided to get one myself, and for my happiness, it doesn't have any background noises.

As for the poster above, the clicks are related to the envelopes. They're extremely fast, and to get rid of the clicking, you'd have to fine adjust the sound to have just a tiny bit of attack and release on both envelopes. It's strange, yes, but might be fixed with firmware updates, considering that the envelopes are digital.

Sound-wise, the only thing that reaaaally bothers me is the noisy delay. They should've added another 50-100 dollars on the price and bring a decent digital delay - or, even better, no delay at all and use that space for more synthesis related features (2nd LFO?).

Although it isn't the best ever synthesizer, I think it has some unique characteristics to its sound that I like a lot. I was traveling and I just didn't have the space, but fitted it inside my dispatched luggage with no box or anything - it survived intact (!) - this is just how much I wanted it.

Cheers!
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: DavidDever on September 27, 2016, 06:46:39 AM
As for the poster above, the clicks are related to the envelopes. They're extremely fast, and to get rid of the clicking, you'd have to fine adjust the sound to have just a tiny bit of attack and release on both envelopes. It's strange, yes, but might be fixed with firmware updates, considering that the envelopes are digital.

Yes, I'm familiar with the phenomenon–judicious use of attack and release did not solve the problem. The obvious way to demonstrate this is to set the display to show parameter values (rather than the oscilloscope), then gradually change the AR values from 0 on either or both envelopes. You can clearly hear the attack and release phases, then click-click-click as you trigger additional notes. It's just not natural.

I suspect that this is ultimately a firmware bug (if not a bad choice), and it is definitely exacerbated in DUO or UNISON modes. Honestly, I have yet to meet anyone who actually thinks that clicky envelopes are a preferred behavior, and I also distinctly remember this issue existing in early s/w versions of the Waldorf Q until it was "fixed".
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: cr73645 on September 29, 2016, 07:48:07 AM
Yes, I'm familiar with the phenomenon–judicious use of attack and release did not solve the problem. The obvious way to demonstrate this is to set the display to show parameter values (rather than the oscilloscope), then gradually change the AR values from 0 on either or both envelopes. You can clearly hear the attack and release phases, then click-click-click as you trigger additional notes. It's just not natural.

I suspect that this is ultimately a firmware bug (if not a bad choice), and it is definitely exacerbated in DUO or UNISON modes. Honestly, I have yet to meet anyone who actually thinks that clicky envelopes are a preferred behavior, and I also distinctly remember this issue existing in early s/w versions of the Waldorf Q until it was "fixed".
Maybe I'm doing something different, but setting portamento to 0 and auto (with legato trigger) is doing the trick for me. I'm getting no clicks with this + AR adjustment.

I've explored the clicks with a few sounds, but it is certainly undesired behavior.
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: eXode on November 15, 2016, 04:19:59 AM
Adam Borseti keeps doing great demos with the Minilogue:

Hi NRG Funk Jam: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYjmt6jJuWw
Patches 3 (Choir/Brass/String): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbOhNjhz9yo
Patches: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5fS75_ZRKA

This makes me even more sad that Korg hasn't made a 6 or 8 voice version in either a desktop or a full size keyboard.
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: proteus-ix on November 16, 2016, 07:19:28 PM
Adam Borseti keeps doing great demos with the Minilogue:

Hi NRG Funk Jam: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYjmt6jJuWw
Patches 3 (Choir/Brass/String): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbOhNjhz9yo
Patches: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5fS75_ZRKA

This makes me even more sad that Korg hasn't made a 6 or 8 voice version in either a desktop or a full size keyboard.

I bought the Minilogue as my first hardware synth last January, just couldn't get it to sound good, so I sold it a few months later and got an MS-20 instead.  Couldn't have been happier with that decision.  The ML just has a noisy, buzzy sound to it that I don't think cuts through mixes or really stands up to careful listening.  I have heard some good *music* made with it, but in every case I keep thinking "I wish they would record this with another synth".
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: proteus-ix on November 16, 2016, 07:50:39 PM
Nowadays simple things like iOS apps are preferred than complicated workstation synths.

I have a few thousands worth of synths (ok who am I kidding, a few worth of DSI alone, ha), and I still find myself getting lost in iElectribe for longer than I "should".  People want to get back to making music, not the constant distraction of ONE MILLION PATCHES AND EVERY ATOM IN THE UNIVERSE SAMPLED IN 12 FORMATS!  That's why I love DSI - the focus is on quality sound and design that gets you making music, not battling driver mismatches and loop digging the bottomless hole of the internet.
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: eXode on November 17, 2016, 01:47:11 AM
Adam Borseti keeps doing great demos with the Minilogue:

Hi NRG Funk Jam: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYjmt6jJuWw
Patches 3 (Choir/Brass/String): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbOhNjhz9yo
Patches: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5fS75_ZRKA

This makes me even more sad that Korg hasn't made a 6 or 8 voice version in either a desktop or a full size keyboard.

I bought the Minilogue as my first hardware synth last January, just couldn't get it to sound good, so I sold it a few months later and got an MS-20 instead.  Couldn't have been happier with that decision.  The ML just has a noisy, buzzy sound to it that I don't think cuts through mixes or really stands up to careful listening.  I have heard some good *music* made with it, but in every case I keep thinking "I wish they would record this with another synth".

Let's agree to disagree then. I think Adam's demos are great and showcase a lot of musical timbres out of it, timbres that I haven't heard from most of the other demos that were made in conjunction with it's release. Of course tastes will differ and that's fine. Perhaps you prefer harder/driven sounds? The MS20 is quite a characterful synth with a screaming quality to it (I like the MS20 too) while the Minilogue I would say is different. :)

As a side note it's a little funny that you describe the Minilogue is noisy as the MS20 mini was critiqued for that very same reason (to the extent that several users returned theirs), but YMMV. :)
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: eXode on November 17, 2016, 02:00:15 AM
Adam Borseti keeps at it. Not a spot on Vox Humana sound obviously but impressive nonetheless considering it's limited specs.

Vox Humana style: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Bq5BBSZu3U
Multi Tracked Vangelis style: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFKEeM_A1ew
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: BobTheDog on November 17, 2016, 11:08:42 AM
For me the Monologue sounds pretty good, the "patches 3" video ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbOhNjhz9yo ) has some great stuff in it.
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: proteus-ix on November 18, 2016, 06:54:06 PM
Adam Borseti keeps doing great demos with the Minilogue:

Hi NRG Funk Jam: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYjmt6jJuWw
Patches 3 (Choir/Brass/String): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbOhNjhz9yo
Patches: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5fS75_ZRKA

This makes me even more sad that Korg hasn't made a 6 or 8 voice version in either a desktop or a full size keyboard.

I bought the Minilogue as my first hardware synth last January, just couldn't get it to sound good, so I sold it a few months later and got an MS-20 instead.  Couldn't have been happier with that decision.  The ML just has a noisy, buzzy sound to it that I don't think cuts through mixes or really stands up to careful listening.  I have heard some good *music* made with it, but in every case I keep thinking "I wish they would record this with another synth".

Let's agree to disagree then. I think Adam's demos are great and showcase a lot of musical timbres out of it, timbres that I haven't heard from most of the other demos that were made in conjunction with it's release. Of course tastes will differ and that's fine. Perhaps you prefer harder/driven sounds? The MS20 is quite a characterful synth with a screaming quality to it (I like the MS20 too) while the Minilogue I would say is different. :)

As a side note it's a little funny that you describe the Minilogue is noisy as the MS20 mini was critiqued for that very same reason (to the extent that several users returned theirs), but YMMV. :)

Oh I don't need to convince anyone to share my opinion - that just leaves more of the synths I like for me!  ;D  Adam is definitely a good player, and coaxes some good sounds of out the ML, but I *still* don't like it (even if I ignore the fact that I wouldn't like his music anyway).  I do like hard/driven sounds, but I also love soft, glassy FM chords, airy Eno-esque pads, and all kinds of stuff.  But I have yet to hear any demos or music with it that I like, or where I think it sounds good, and I tried for months to get something I liked out of it; contrast that with the Volca FM, which consistently blows me away, or the OB-6 which really just can do no wrong, but does so much very, very right.
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on October 08, 2020, 04:31:15 PM
I don't often get a chance to play a synthesizer other than one I own, but we recently bought a Korg Minilogue XD for my wife, who is a K-4 music teacher.  After considering her needs and the available instruments, I settled on this model.  It's an impressive little thing and can create a broad range of sounds, moreso than I had expected.  It's brass capabilities were very satisfying (that's a go-to test patch for me).  And now here's the "but."  But, in my opinion, it doesn't come close to the warmth of the Prophet '08.

I've read that the Japanese sawtooth wave form is quite different in character from the American/European one, and now that I've heard it for myself I would agree.  I'm sure some people would prefer the former, bit I find the DSI/Sequential tone much more to my liking.  I would describe it as closer to the vaunted Moog sound - different, but in the same direction of having a well-rounded slightly darker hue.  The Korg tone is the thinnest perhaps that I've ever heard, and it takes some getting used to.  If I remember correctly, the MS-20 has a similarly tight and narrow voice.  However, I did like the Korg's polyphonic portamento; it works much better than that of DSI/Sequential, in that it's quite predictable and musical.

I don't think I would bother to apply my coveted keyboard/module/stereo panning technique in this case, but it would be possible, since Korg offers a Minilogue XD Module.  And it's obviously possible to control the same module with my Prophet '08, but I doubt I'll do that either, unless my opinion of the Korg quality significantly changes.  It's too bad, because I had been considering the Korg Prologue.  I guess I'm hopelessly in love with the DSI/Sequential sound.  It does ring of a musical home.

I've only just started with this instrument, so if any one experienced can offer a few methods for warming up the Korg sound, I'm all ears.
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: LPF83 on October 08, 2020, 05:09:04 PM
I don't often get a chance to play a synthesizer other than one I own, but we recently bought a Korg Minilogue XD for my wife, who is a K-4 music teacher.  After considering her needs and the available instruments, I settled on this model.  It's an impressive little thing and can create a broad range of sounds, moreso than I had expected.  It's brass capabilities were very satisfying (that's a go-to test patch for me).  And now here's the "but."  But, in my opinion, it doesn't come close to the warmth of the Prophet '08.

I've read that the Japanese sawtooth wave form is quite different in character from the American/European one, and now that I've heard it for myself I would agree.  I'm sure some people would prefer the former, bit I find the DSI/Sequential tone much more to my liking.  I would describe it as closer to the vaunted Moog sound - different, but in the same direction of having a well-rounded slightly darker hue.  The Korg tone is the thinnest perhaps that I've ever heard, and it takes some getting used to.  If I remember correctly, the MS-20 has a similarly tight and narrow voice.  However, I did like the Korg's polyphonic portamento; it works much better than that of DSI/Sequential, in that it's quite predictable and musical.

I don't think I would bother to apply my coveted keyboard/module/stereo panning technique in this case, but it would be possible, since Korg offers a Minilogue XD Module.  And it's obviously possible to control the same module with my Prophet '08, but I doubt I'll do that either, unless my opinion of the Korg quality significantly changes.  It's too bad, because I had been considering the Korg Prologue.  I guess I'm hopelessly in love with the DSI/Sequential sound.  It does ring of a musical home.

I've only just started with this instrument, so if any one experienced can offer a few methods for warming up the Korg sound, I'm all ears.

I was a little "meh" on it when I first got mine, because up against Sequential stuff the raw tones of the oscillators aren't in the same league to my ear.  For some strange reason, I was hoping it would be great for bass, and it turned out not to be (but then again my Rev2 isn't the best at bass either... trying to be as good as the P6 or OB-6 at bass is a tough act to follow for any synth).

But where it earns its keep many times over for me is the sequencer -- just the sheer "playability" of the sequencer (not just for notes but for the 4 "motion" tracks) and how it encourages experimentation.   And then all the FX options, and the fact I can have my cake and eat it too, combining modulation (chorus, ensemble, etc) with delay and reverb, all three simultaneous (and I think Korg's FX are pretty good).

It still took a couple of weeks to really win me over.  For some reason it doesn't inspire me to create lots of patches like the P6 does.  So I decided to try some aftermarket sounds which turned out to be a lot better than the factory presets...  then I decided to buy a custom oscillator (Pluck by Tim Shoebridge), and I started having some real fun with it at that point.  I think the ability to add aftermarket sounds and FX is a huge benefit of the Minilogue/Prologue line, and I highly recommend experimenting with these, many can be downloaded free of charge.

So mainly I ended up using it in a supplementary role in the music creation process, to create repeating background sequences or to put some movement / atmosphere behind the stars of the show.  It will never be my goto machine for leads, or basses, or stringy pads (although it can do them), but as an "arpy thing" machine with great FX, it was so worth the money and I don't think I'll ever sell mine.

As for the Prologue, I'm sure it probably sounds better than my XD and of course has more voices, but it doesn't have that magical little sequencer in it so I don't think I want to give up precious space for a full sized synth for one.


Title: Re: KORG Minilogue
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on October 08, 2020, 10:04:20 PM
Then you would agree that the Minilogue XD is thin sounding?  By itself, it sounds decent.  If you work with it exclusively for some time, your ears adapt and it begins to have a satisfactory tone.  But put beside a Prophet '08 - for example - it definitely pales.  I would guess the MS-20 has a similar tone.  I say all this because I want to like Korg and would like to add a Korg instrument to my set up, but not deafly. 
Title: Re: KORG Minilogue
Post by: LPF83 on October 09, 2020, 04:01:49 AM
Then you would agree that the Minilogue XD is thin sounding?  By itself, it sounds decent.  If you work with it exclusively for some time, your ears adapt and it begins to have a satisfactory tone.  But put beside a Prophet '08 - for example - it definitely pales.  I would guess the MS-20 has a similar tone.  I say all this because I want to like Korg and would like to add a Korg instrument to my set up, but not deafly.

Yes, I agree the raw tone of the oscillators is not in the same league as the Rev2 (which I assume is very close if not same as Prophet '08 in raw osc tone), and even further behind the P6 and OB-6 in overall oscillator richness.   But it makes up for it in other ways, especially once I start mixing synths in, so if there was a bang for buck contest it might actually blow away any other hardware I have.

That said, I always start sound designing or song writing on another synth first.  I don't really expect a synth at that price point to fully compete with my other hardware.  What it does though, for the price and considering the cost per voice of other VCO synths, is kind of staggering really.
Title: Re: KORG Minilogue
Post by: LPF83 on October 09, 2020, 09:55:59 AM

Another potential use for your new XD:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vx4KhcSNBew
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on October 10, 2020, 03:04:08 PM
Very nice.  I do like the XD's digital oscillators.  I'd like to put a couple of module versions together and hear the instrument reach its optimum sound quality.
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: LPF83 on October 10, 2020, 04:55:14 PM
Very nice.  I do like the XD's digital oscillators.  I'd like to put a couple of module versions together and hear the instrument reach its optimum sound quality.

Here's a polychain of kbd+module.  To my ears, it sounds a bit messy (with that particular patch).  This is one reason I'm likely reaching for the Prophet-5 over the 10 voice, sometimes less is more.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdvTXqed--c
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on October 12, 2020, 09:18:45 PM
This continues to be and become an interesting instrument, with hints of Dave Smith about it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vx4KhcSNBew
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: LoboLives on October 12, 2020, 09:46:53 PM
This continues to be and become an interesting instrument, with hints of Dave Smith about it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vx4KhcSNBew

I wonder if Korg and Sequential would ever do a collaboration.
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on October 12, 2020, 09:51:06 PM
It's almost unnecessary.  A Prologue with Vector Synthesis has Dave Smith all over it.

I wonder how the Prologues will handle the VS, since they have wheels instead a joystick.  I suppose a well-coordinated simultaneous use of the two wheels could come close.
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: LPF83 on October 13, 2020, 04:32:18 AM
It's almost unnecessary.  A Prologue with Vector Synthesis has Dave Smith all over it.

I wonder how the Prologues will handle the VS, since they have wheels instead a joystick.  I suppose a well-coordinated simultaneous use of the two wheels could come close.

Only issue is that then, pitch and mod functions are foregone.  If you notice in the Tim Shoebridge video, he's using the joystick from another keyboard (or a Korg Nanopad) rather than the one on the XD, I assume because the built-in stick cannot be used.
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on October 13, 2020, 07:11:18 AM
That's true.  But requiring a separate controller such as a joystick seems impractical.  Short of redesigning the left side of the Prologue, it's hard to imagine what Korg will do.  Perhaps it will take more than an update, more like a Prologue II.
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: LPF83 on October 13, 2020, 08:43:11 AM
That's true.  But requiring a separate controller such as a joystick seems impractical.  Short of redesigning the left side of the Prologue, it's hard to imagine what Korg will do.  Perhaps it will take more than an update, more like a Prologue II.

It could happen, but I'm not sure I see Korg directly taking the 'logue product line in the direction of vector synthesis, this is something that was cultivate in the hobbyist market.  They already have the Wavestate, which I believe is the official Korg answer to this type of morphing and has a joystick + pitch and mod wheels.
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on October 13, 2020, 08:50:55 AM
Well, the Prologue is obviously a part of a line of instruments, so Korg has put some real time and resources into the instrument.  It seems to be the result of a number of previous analog trial balloons.  I wouldn't be surprised is there was still more to come of it. 
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: LPF83 on October 13, 2020, 09:46:19 AM
Well, the Prologue is obviously a part of a line of instruments, so Korg has put some real time and resources into the instrument.  It seems to be the result of a number of previous analog trial balloons.  I wouldn't be surprised is there was still more to come of it.

Oh I can definitely see them expanding the 'logue line..  in fact it would be completely inconsistent with their lineage to do anything else.  I'm just leaning more toward the ability to do vector synthesis on the 'logues as sort of a niche that's indirectly supported by the SDK more than carving out the feature set for their future analog synths.  They already have a line of "kitchen sink" workstations that evolved over decades from the M1 -- so even if the 'logue team start wanting to create overlap with their other products like the Wavestate, I'd be surprised if the idea would pass muster with the higher ups.

Dave Smith has always said he wants a synth to have a personality and to exist as a concise purpose instrument rather than create workstations that do everything imaginable.  I could be wrong but I feel like the rest of the industry is starting to take notice of Dave's success and follow his lead. 

This sort of "specialty" approach was really what pulled Apple back from the graves - when they brought Steve Jobs back, the first thing he did was identify the product lines that had overlap, or products where the function and purpose was ambiguous, and just started slashing away so he could focus the company on doing a few things very well instead of trying to do everything.
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: LPF83 on November 29, 2020, 10:45:47 AM
Another interesting possibility (transform it into a 4 operator FM synth):

https://www.sinevibes.com/korgnode/
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: Quatschmacher on November 30, 2020, 04:42:11 AM
Another interesting possibility (transform it into a 4 operator FM synth):

https://www.sinevibes.com/korgnode/

That’s pretty cool.
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 20, 2021, 08:32:18 AM
In some ways I really do like the Minilogue, but I find its filter to be perhaps the weakest I've ever heard.  I use a lot of envelope controlled filter modulation, especially the type that uses no resonance - brass patches, for example.  In this sort of patch, the Minilogue is remarkably weak.  Sometimes I'm even suspecting that I've turned up the "Filter Cut Off" parameter, rather than the "EG INT" knob.  It's certainly more pronounced the instant you add some resonance, but without it, the sound is terribly lame.
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: LPF83 on January 20, 2021, 02:22:57 PM
In some ways I really do like the Minilogue, but I find its filter to be perhaps the weakest I've ever heard.  I use a lot of envelope controlled filter modulation, especially the type that uses no resonance - brass patches, for example.  In this sort of patch, the Minilogue is remarkably weak.  Sometimes I'm even suspecting that I've turned up the "Filter Cut Off" parameter, rather than the "EG INT" knob.  It's certainly more pronounced the instant you add some resonance, but without it, the sound is terribly lame.

I agree, the filter isn't something you can put up against Sequential synths...  I don't use mine in the same manner I do some of my other, more capable gear.  I normally use it for two niche uses:  sequenced arpy (usually short) sounds that play a supporting role... it is fantastic for this because the sequencer functionality is the best of all my gear (short of Cubase on the PC).  The other is to provide backing harmonics for the P12... sometimes I come up with a nice sound on the P12 that just needs a little VCO fullness boost, and the two can sound magical when layered in this way.
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on April 13, 2021, 09:31:58 AM
Over the last few weeks, I've come to appreciate the Minilogue XD much more.  For the time being, I've been able to compare it to a Korg ARP Odyssey Module, and to my ears the XD stands up just fine.  One problem, though, is that the VCA should have been assigned the AD envelope and the filter the ADSR - the reverse of the Odyssey.  Fortunately, the Prologue has two complete four-stage envelopes.  Aside from that, I find the Korg to be a very enjoyable instrument to program and play.  I'd love to have a pair of modules controlled by a full-sized five-octave keyboard. 

I hope Korg adds another model to the "Logue" line.  It has great potential as a workhorse hybrid favoring the analogue side of things. 
Title: Re: KORG minilogue
Post by: LPF83 on April 13, 2021, 02:21:10 PM
Over the last few weeks, I've come to appreciate the Minilogue XD much more.  For the time being, I've been able to compare it to a Korg ARP Odyssey Module, and to my ears the XD stands up just fine.  One problem, though, is that the VCA should have been assigned the AD envelope and the filter the ADSR - the reverse of the Odyssey.  Fortunately, the Prologue has two complete four-stage envelopes.  Aside from that, I find the Korg to be a very enjoyable instrument to program and play.  I'd love to have a pair of modules controlled by a full-sized five-octave keyboard. 

I hope Korg adds another model to the "Logue" line.  It has great potential as a workhorse hybrid favoring the analogue side of things.

I would have liked a four stage filter envelope too, but for what I use the synth for, it's not a problem.  What I do wish Korg could have done is make it a class compliant USB device.  I'm not sure if it's an issue for Mac users, but on Windows the Korg driver has this issue where the synth must be in the first 10 USB device slots or its effectively not recognized, and while I am fine just using a MIDI cable, the editor/librarian seems to require it.  There are registry hacks to reassign the driver order and what not, but sooner or later if you have enough USB devices connected to the PC, it will eventually lose its mojo and require more messing with the registry.  Why class compliance is difficult for a company the size of Korg I will never understand, but more than likely I will avoid other Korg products until I find they've changed their ways.  I'd like to say I would buy an OpSix module if it emerged, but if it uses the same driver then I'd probably pass.

Aside from the USB thing -- its a spectacular little synth for the money and full of possibilities.  I find its overall tone a bit colder than my Sequential stuff, but I think that's great because it tends to find its own spot in a mix, and differentiates itself nicely from my other synths.  I've also noticed that it does plays well when layered with the Prophet 12, the fact it has far less voices doesn't really matter at all when it's playing a supplementary role in layers -- it might even be a plus.
The overall bang for buck makes it worth keeping even with the USB issue.