The Official Sequential/Oberheim Forum
OTHER DISCUSSIONS => General Synthesis => Other Hardware/Software => Topic started by: LoboLives on November 06, 2017, 05:21:20 PM
-
So I went to Moog Audio today and tried out the Tom Oberheim Two Voice Pro. My thoughts:
First and foremost it’s a beautiful instrument, they had the new Black version which was nice (I’d still prefer the white version) and it seems pretty robust. Key word: Seems.
The SEMs themselves seems fairly sturdy (the slim fine tune knob has quite a bit of wobble) but the sequencer buttons and volume knobs were incredibly tiny and cheap feeling. Shocking on a synth with this price point.
Then I tried the pitch and mod wheels...neither worked...nor did the transpose buttons. The staff came over and confirmed that there was something wrong and they would have to fix it. The A440 on one of the SEMs wasn’t working not was an LFO on one of the SEMs. Something else they said they’ll look into. The A440that did work seemed off...I had to really crank the VCO frequency to match it...usually it should be around the middle for standard tuning but this seemed unusually high.
The sequencer is clunky but it probably has to do with me being unfamiliar with it. Switching between modes (Unison, split, SEM A first, re-trigger-some which weren’t working) is awkward. Editing the sequencer on the fly in terms of adding ratchets, rests is awkward too.
Overall the sound was amazing but I just wasn’t getting the sound I wanted totally but that’s probably due to the transpose knobs. The sequencer is great (probably the best on board sequencer built into a synth I’ve tried) but still needs some getting used to.
The sound does sound massive when cranked but it does take some getting used to when creating patches...it’s tuning is incredibly precise and just a mile second off and the thing is out of tune and not in a good way.
The sound Is historic but creating patches takes longer than it needs to be and some of the build quality is lacking and for a synth at this price point that really shouldn’t be the case. I also couldn’t believe the amount of things not operating properly. It’s a $5000 Synth it shouldn’t be so sensitive or clunky especially with an estimated 6-8 month waiting period. Come on. I get Tom isn’t a young man but these things need to be tested properly...especially at that price point.
I’m going to order the ARPs and I’ll seriously have to consider about this investment. Everyone kept saying “it’s one of a kind, you’ll never get it again”...but that could be said about a Yamaha CS80 or Prophet 10, do I really want to spend thousand on something that may not be that reliable?
-
Hm, that almost sounds like the opposite of the experience I had about two years ago. There seem to be some serious quality control issues. The connector of the wheel box did probably come off, which is an easy fix, but I do agree that this shouldn't happen at this price point. From memory I do agree on the overall build quality though. It doesn't feel as solid as a Minimoog for example and the controls on the left side are definitely rather fiddly compared to the other controls. The alternative would then only be to get one or two SEMs in whatever configuration you'd prefer, or to move into a completely different direction as you implied at the end.
-
Hm, that almost sounds like the opposite of the experience I had about two years ago. There seem to be some serious quality control issues. The connector of the wheel box did probably come off, which is an easy fix, but I do agree that this shouldn't happen at this price point. From memory I do agree on the overall build quality though. It doesn't feel as solid as a Minimoog for example and the controls on the left side are definitely rather fiddly compared to the other controls. The alternative would then only be to get one or two SEMs in whatever configuration you'd prefer, or to move into a completely different direction as you implied at the end.
I was thinking at this point I may as well do a custom SEM Four Voice Pro. Just somehow build a module rack version and control it with midi. I wish Tom's standalone sequencer actually got released. He announced it a few years back and nothing came of it. Sucks cause I really wanted to my experience to have sold me on this but it almost did the opposite. Just have to really consider it.
-
When the "Son of Four-Voice" was teased, it was (for many) exactly what the doctor ordered, yet Marion Systems couldn't deliver on the design.
Thing is–unless you're planning on playing live (ha ha ha) with a four-SEM setup, you've got a few polyphonic options:
- One SEM, multitracked, relying on randomness between passes to provide drift
- Two-Voice Pro + two additional SEMs, with appropriate MIDI (i.e., Local Off) and/or CV control via external modules
- DSI OB-6, which simply works
- Multiple SEMs, custom housing and power supply, all patch points exposed–basically a SEM-based semi-modular system along the lines of what the Son of Four-Voice was supposed to be
-
I am extremely happy with a vintage Xpander, another option... Oberheim sound, and modular-like modulation options, you can control more or less anything with anything, at voice level (including MIDI and CV). No sequencer though...
-
When the "Son of Four-Voice" was teased, it was (for many) exactly what the doctor ordered, yet Marion Systems couldn't deliver on the design.
Thing is–unless you're planning on playing live (ha ha ha) with a four-SEM setup, you've got a few polyphonic options:
- One SEM, multitracked, relying on randomness between passes to provide drift
- Two-Voice Pro + two additional SEMs, with appropriate MIDI (i.e., Local Off) and/or CV control via external modules
- DSI OB-6, which simply works
- Multiple SEMs, custom housing and power supply, all patch points exposed–basically a SEM-based semi-modular system along the lines of what the Son of Four-Voice was supposed to be
I was considering option 2 but sadly you can't change the polyphony on the Two Voice even when adding SEMs via midi. You can't control external gear with local control on and you can't control the onboard SEMs with it off (unless they are strictly being played by the sequencer). At least from what I've been told.
I was considering option 4. It's far more expensive but it almost seems like you have to go down this route for a classic SEM based Oberheim because the build quality was shockingly poor on the Two Voice Pro...or maybe like Paul said, just plagued with poor quality control.
I was saying the other day that the Vermona PerFOURmer MKii is almost exactly what the Son Of Four Voice should have been.
-
I was saying the other day that the Vermona PerFOURmer MKii is almost exactly what the Son Of Four Voice should have been.
Now there's a fascinating instrument that merits more discussion. Four stereo oscillators panned as you like, with a classic analog sound. It's certainly got a simple architecture - just the basics - but it does sound massive and gorgeous. Someone here on the forum has one. Is it Soundquest?
-
Correct, I have the Vermona MKII. My sales pitch would be that I can attest to it's gorgeous sound and I find the individual pans and fm's very useful. Elsewhere in this form I wrote more detail about it. I think its a great studio instrument for synth folks to create with. It's limitation would be for live function (because you need to retune each time you use it), and lack of memory of course. I found the lack of memory to bother me more than I anticipated. At first I took photos of the panel as a sort of "patch sheet" to save my favorite patches. But looking up photos to mimic got old quick. So really your approach has to be more of the modular approach when making music. What that means to me, is if I get something I like, I just need to audio record it right away. In summary, it's a great supplement, but not a main course IMO.
I haven't bothered to familiarize myself with the Oberheim 2 voice, or the SEM's Lobo Lives is speaking of. But it sounds like the sequencer factor is big in his decision in addition to sound. Ever think about the OB6 and supercharge it with an outboard sequencer?
-
I inquired about the stand alone sequencer as well as the SEM X modules..
“Dad is working on it. He has been having some other personal stuff happening but he is working on it.”-Tom Oberheim.com
:'(
-
Correct, I have the Vermona MKII. My sales pitch would be that I can attest to it's gorgeous sound and I find the individual pans and fm's very useful. Elsewhere in this form I wrote more detail about it. I think its a great studio instrument for synth folks to create with. It's limitation would be for live function (because you need to retune each time you use it), and lack of memory of course. I found the lack of memory to bother me more than I anticipated. At first I took photos of the panel as a sort of "patch sheet" to save my favorite patches. But looking up photos to mimic got old quick. So really your approach has to be more of the modular approach when making music. What that means to me, is if I get something I like, I just need to audio record it right away. In summary, it's a great supplement, but not a main course IMO.
I haven't bothered to familiarize myself with the Oberheim 2 voice, or the SEM's Lobo Lives is speaking of. But it sounds like the sequencer factor is big in his decision in addition to sound. Ever think about the OB6 and supercharge it with an outboard sequencer?
Yeah I’ll have a “patch catalog” as well for the ARPs and Dark Time. It’s not a huge issue but it does take a bit of time out of the creative process. You are correct though, best just to have the recorder on and get it done.
The OB6 has its own poly sequencer...the difference between that and the Two Voice obviously is the OB6 is monotimbral. So an outboard sequencer would serve no purpose really as it’ll be one sequence with one patch.
-
I inquired about the stand alone sequencer as well as the SEM X modules..
“Dad is working on it. He has been having some other personal stuff happening but he is working on it.”-Tom Oberheim.com
:'(
Damn. Let's hope for the best.
-
I inquired about the stand alone sequencer as well as the SEM X modules..
“Dad is working on it. He has been having some other personal stuff happening but he is working on it.”-Tom Oberheim.com
:'(
Damn. Let's hope for the best.
He will be 83 this year. Ugh one of their demonstrators Benny asked me how my experience with the Two Voice was...I don’t have the heart to tell em now.
-
I inquired about the stand alone sequencer as well as the SEM X modules..
“Dad is working on it. He has been having some other personal stuff happening but he is working on it.”-Tom Oberheim.com
:'(
Damn. Let's hope for the best.
Let's hope for the best indeed!
Sad that Tom Oberheim is the only one there "working on it". I mean, he could have licensed the design to Erica Synths, Doepfer, any number of manufacturers would have jumped at the chance. And Oberheim still would have made plenty of money while leaving the grunt work to younger guys who are eager to get it done.
-
I inquired about the stand alone sequencer as well as the SEM X modules..
“Dad is working on it. He has been having some other personal stuff happening but he is working on it.”-Tom Oberheim.com
:'(
Damn. Let's hope for the best.
Let's hope for the best indeed!
Sad that Tom Oberheim is the only one there "working on it". I mean, he could have licensed the design to Erica Synths, Doepfer, any number of manufacturers would have jumped at the chance. And Oberheim still would have made plenty of money while leaving the grunt work to younger guys who are eager to get it done.
Agreed. I have no idea what will happen once he's no longer around...maybe that'll be it for SEMs.
Perhaps the reason he still does it is because it brings him a sense of joy to be building synths by hand at 83 like he did when he was 20 as opposed to sitting back and not being in the trenches.
-
I inquired about the stand alone sequencer as well as the SEM X modules..
“Dad is working on it. He has been having some other personal stuff happening but he is working on it.”-Tom Oberheim.com
:'(
Damn. Let's hope for the best.
Let's hope for the best indeed!
Sad that Tom Oberheim is the only one there "working on it". I mean, he could have licensed the design to Erica Synths, Doepfer, any number of manufacturers would have jumped at the chance. And Oberheim still would have made plenty of money while leaving the grunt work to younger guys who are eager to get it done.
Agreed. I have no idea what will happen once he's no longer around...maybe that'll be it for SEMs.
Perhaps the reason he still does it is because it brings him a sense of joy to be building synths by hand at 83 like he did when he was 20 as opposed to sitting back and not being in the trenches.
True.
Though he could always do both... license the design AND have a boutique line (not to be confused with Roland's bastardization of that term) of "Hand Built by Tom" SEMs and other modules.
-
Let's hope for the best indeed!
Sad that Tom Oberheim is the only one there "working on it". I mean, he could have licensed the design to Erica Synths, Doepfer, any number of manufacturers would have jumped at the chance. And Oberheim still would have made plenty of money while leaving the grunt work to younger guys who are eager to get it done.
Yes, it's a shame that Tom is still doing the heavy lifting at Oberheim. He should pass his masterful designs to someone he trusts, and then enjoy his golden years with his family, while doing something other than working. It would be wonderful if Dave Smith could accept this responsibility. Dave and Tom are such an obvious team. I'd love to see DSI continue the Oberheim line.
-
Let's hope for the best indeed!
Sad that Tom Oberheim is the only one there "working on it". I mean, he could have licensed the design to Erica Synths, Doepfer, any number of manufacturers would have jumped at the chance. And Oberheim still would have made plenty of money while leaving the grunt work to younger guys who are eager to get it done.
Yes, it's a shame that Tom is still doing the heavy lifting at Oberheim. He should pass his masterful designs to someone he trusts, and then enjoy his golden years with his family, while doing something other than working. It would be wonderful if Dave Smith could accept this responsibility. Dave and Tom are such an obvious team. I'd love to see DSI continue the Oberheim line.
I was actually going to suggest Moog take over Oberheim. Since SEMs were created to compliment Moog modular. Hey it'll give Moog something new to work on and it wouldn't be that much different than the synths they are producing now.
-
Yes, it's a shame that Tom is still doing the heavy lifting at Oberheim. He should pass his masterful designs to someone he trusts, and then enjoy his golden years with his family, while doing something other than working. It would be wonderful if Dave Smith could accept this responsibility. Dave and Tom are such an obvious team. I'd love to see DSI continue the Oberheim line.
Legal questions aside, that would make sense. Not only because DSI collaborated with Tom Oberheim before, but also from a logistical POV, as it is my understanding that they both have their instruments assembled at LeeMAH Electronics.
-
Yes, it's a shame that Tom is still doing the heavy lifting at Oberheim. He should pass his masterful designs to someone he trusts, and then enjoy his golden years with his family, while doing something other than working. It would be wonderful if Dave Smith could accept this responsibility. Dave and Tom are such an obvious team. I'd love to see DSI continue the Oberheim line.
Legal questions aside, that would make sense. Not only because DSI collaborated with Tom Oberheim before, but also from a logistical POV, as it is my understanding that they both have their instruments assembled at LeeMAH Electronics.
The legal question appears to at least be answerable... Hence we have the OB-6.
-
I was actually going to suggest Moog take over Oberheim.
The company cultures at DSI and Moog are as far as I understand it quite different at least when observed from the outside. It would be a tough choice to pick one of them.
All I hope for is that Tom Oberheim will be well again soon!
-
I was actually going to suggest Moog take over Oberheim.
The company cultures at DSI and Moog are as far as I understand it quite different at least when observed from the outside. It would be a tough choice to pick one of them.
All I hope for is that Tom Oberheim will be well again soon!
I just think Moog has a much larger operation than DSI and would be more capable of having their own SEM section. I think DSI is only capable of devoting their attention to one thing at a time and thus every year they would have to decide between focusing on an SEM instrument or DSI project.
-
DSI could just maintain the SEM and Two-Voice Pro and leave it at that. No R+D spent in the Oberheim department.
-
DSI could just maintain the SEM and Two-Voice Pro and leave it at that. No R+D spent in the Oberheim department.
I just don’t think DSI have the man power to do that.
-
You're probably right. But no one could be as fitting for this as Dave.
-
You're probably right. But no one could be as fitting for this as Dave.
True.
It almost makes me just want to deal with the Two Voice Pro's flaws and clunky build and get one just because of the legacy it has.
-
I know it isn't the same, but if you want a reliable Oberheim synthesizer, try an OB-6.
-
I know it isn't the same, but if you want a reliable Oberheim synthesizer, try an OB-6.
Marc Doty (in one of his videos) makes a good case for the OB6 in the role of a mono synth.
-
It certainly is an ideal size for a mono synth. But for that price, you'd want a lot more from it than only melodies. Sure, a Minimoog is about $3,500, but then you get the Minimoog sound.
-
The main attraction to the Two Voice Pro to me is it is pretty much Tangerine Dream in a box with two separate voices and an incredible on board sequencer.
The OB6 is nice but it’s way too similar to my Prophet 6 and certainly not as versitile as the Two Voice.
I think my only option really is to suck it up and get the Two Voice or get some SEM Pro modules (perhaps four?) and control it via midi with a separate keyboard or Sequentex Cirklon sequencer but the second option is even more of an investment (At least $8000) however at least I can sort of control the overal build quality.
I’m bindge buying in the next few months in picking up the ARPs, a Soundcraft Mixer, a Doepfer Darktime Sequencer And probably a few other things as I’m currently renovating my studio and getting rid of some stuff I don’t use like the Kronos. I have to determine if a $1500 down payment on the TVS Pro is Part of that equation when I won’t be able to use it for at almost a year and when it does arrive I may have to immediately take it to the shop.
-
I have to determine if a $1500 down payment on the TVS Pro is Part of that equation when I won’t be able to use it for at almost a year and when it does arrive I may have to immediately take it to the shop.
Boy, if only all of life's decisions were as easy and obvious as that one!
-
I have to determine if a $1500 down payment on the TVS Pro is Part of that equation when I won’t be able to use it for at almost a year and when it does arrive I may have to immediately take it to the shop.
Boy, if only all of life's decisions were as easy and obvious as that one!
I know, it seems like there’s a lot of negatives and it seems like a no brainer but I still keep coming back to it.
-
I have to determine if a $1500 down payment on the TVS Pro is Part of that equation when I won’t be able to use it for at almost a year and when it does arrive I may have to immediately take it to the shop.
Boy, if only all of life's decisions were as easy and obvious as that one!
I know, it seems like there’s a lot of negatives and it seems like a no brainer but I still keep coming back to it.
Follow your bliss. Instruments are for the heart. I say, if you want it, go for it. A year isn't that long. If Jerry, Elaine, George, and Kramer can do a year, then you can do a year. That door won't be open for long.
-
I have to determine if a $1500 down payment on the TVS Pro is Part of that equation when I won’t be able to use it for at almost a year and when it does arrive I may have to immediately take it to the shop.
Boy, if only all of life's decisions were as easy and obvious as that one!
I know, it seems like there’s a lot of negatives and it seems like a no brainer but I still keep coming back to it.
Follow your bliss. Instruments are for the heart. I say, if you want it, go for it. A year isn't that long. If Jerry, Elaine, George, and Kramer can do a year, then you can do a year. That door won't be open for long.
Yeah that’s my feeling. Just sort of curious now that if I have to wait almost a year for it would it be better to just go big or go home and get four SEMs. When I was telling the store about it they were really excited and said they would help me figure out how to hook them all up. They even said they would cut me a deal price wise.
Ironic that the choice before was ARP vs Oberheim but now it’s like ARPs for sure and maybe the Oberheim.
-
Aww screw it. Life is short. What the hell. :)