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SEQUENTIAL/DSI => Evolver => Poly Evolver Keyboard => Topic started by: Sacred Synthesis on December 23, 2015, 06:45:13 PM

Title: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on December 23, 2015, 06:45:13 PM
No, these are not mine!  For anyone interested, I noticed that Noisebug has a Poly Evolver Keyboard and Poly Evolver Rack set for sale at $2999.  I couldn't recommend this combination highly enough.  There's simply nothing like an eight-voice Evolver.

http://www.noisebug.net/used.cfm

In fact, there are presently three PEKs  and two MEKs listed on Ebay.  But it's not as if I'm watching for Evolvers....
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Paul Dither on December 26, 2015, 01:00:31 PM
But it's not as if I'm watching for Evolvers....

Come on, Tim, hasn't this hymn just been written for you?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6FBfAQ-NDE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6FBfAQ-NDE)
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: dslsynth on December 26, 2015, 02:04:31 PM
To be completely honest I think its around time to consider newer voice architectures. Good stuff have happened in recent years at DSI and a new combinations of these ingredients could turn out to be far superior to the Evolver design. In particular less aliasing in the digital oscillators, possibly new analog oscillator designs, higher CV calculation speeds, more modulation destinations and no digital inserts in the analog signal path. That could give something with the sonic substance of Prophet 08 combined with the improved digital features of the newer instruments. The Evolver is very nice but there are plenty of room for improvements in future designs.

With the discontinuation of all the old Curtis machines I would not be too surprised to see a new Curtis machine combining features of some of the older instruments with newer features from Prophet 12, Pro 2 and possibly Prophet-6.

All that is of cause just speculations. We will have to wait until gearmas to see what they came up with this time around.
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on December 26, 2015, 02:11:49 PM
But it's not as if I'm watching for Evolvers....

Come on, Tim, hasn't this hymn just been written for you?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6FBfAQ-NDE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6FBfAQ-NDE)

Paul, I listened to thirty seconds of that song just for you.  I very quickly got enough.  You owe my ears an apology.
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on December 26, 2015, 02:14:21 PM
To be completely honest I think its around time to consider newer voice architectures. Good stuff have happened in recent years at DSI and a new combinations of these ingredients could turn out to be far superior to the Evolver design. In particular less aliasing in the digital oscillators, possibly new analog oscillator designs, higher CV calculation speeds, more modulation destinations and no digital inserts in the analog signal path. That could give something with the sonic substance of Prophet 08 combined with the improved digital features of the newer instruments. The Evolver is very nice but there are plenty of room for improvements in future designs.

With the discontinuation of all the old Curtis machines I would not be too surprised to see a new Curtis machine combining features of some of the older instruments with newer features from Prophet 12, Pro 2 and possibly Prophet-6.

All that is of cause just speculations. We will have to wait until gearmas to see what they came up with this time around.

Now where's your sense of humor?  You seem to be presuming that I'm not interested in new instruments, but that I'm looking to buy additional Evolvers.  If that were so, I would have bought the ones I referred to above.  I'm always checking the prices of PEKs on Ebay because I've had one of mine for sale.  I'm totally interested in new instruments, - I'm just not decided on which one.  I'm certainly getting more interested in that Prophet 12 Mk II!
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: dslsynth on December 26, 2015, 02:24:41 PM
Where's the sense of humor?

Oh there are plenty of humor sense here. I just happen to be better at decoding Paul Dithers humor than yours! ;)

. o O ( time to post a duo pantoMorf (https://vimeo.com/10340283) video )
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: dslsynth on December 26, 2015, 02:33:13 PM
In this case a quite evolved mystery! . o O ( :o )
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on December 26, 2015, 05:41:20 PM
The Evolvers have attained somewhat vintage status, which means their slightly outdated technology now has charm and mystique.  If the instruments sound good, what else matters?  Whether an instrument is new or old is irrelevant, except regarding maintenance.

I still come across posts on the forums that insist nothing in the DSI line-up can substitute for an Evolver.  I can't verify that opinion, but it seems to be a rather common one.

I'm all for the newer instruments, but their mere existence doesn't make me dislike the older ones at all.  I'd guess I could be happy with one or the other or both.
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on December 26, 2015, 06:16:29 PM
Another reminder that the Evolvers are now vintage instruments is in the minimal posting about them on this forum.  I'm practically the only one who still writes about them.  The older forum seemed to have much more Evolver interest and activity. 

Gee, when I bought mine about five years ago, I thought I was on the frontlines of synthesizer technology.
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: dslsynth on December 27, 2015, 03:56:18 AM
Well there is one very good reason for limited Evolver interest on this forum as this community is still in its startup phase and furthermore DSI have not yet officially announced their official forum to their customers. Also there are very little DSI employee participation on this forum so some of the potential advantages of an official forum is not here yet and could possibly never happen at all. So I would not take the activity levels on this forum as any kind of indication of how the general customer base behaves.

The Evolver is indeed a very nice and well sounding machine. As they say - use what you got - rather than always hunting around for new solutions all the time. No new synthesizer will make the Evolver sound any different but newer instruments may have better solutions in the same sound spaces that the Evolver excels in thereby making the newer instruments more interesting. This is why I at times write about looking forward rather than buying more Evolvers.

One well known Curtis chip challenge is the analog oscillator crossover point click described on the other forum and acknowledged by DSI support. And that is not the only source of unwanted clicks in the Evolvers voice architecture. Obviously when designing new analog oscillators a high priority is to avoid such sonic artifacts where possible again making newer instruments more interesting.

With that said one can wonder how much the Evolvers are actually used today? How many Evolver sounds occurs in todays pop music? Good question!

At times I have the feeling that Evolver users just use this lovely multi-tool rather than talking wildly about it on the net. Or it could be that people just send it a smile on its vintage shelf in their studio?

Its indeed a very good question, Sacred Synthesis!
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Paul Dither on December 27, 2015, 09:45:15 AM
The Evolvers have attained somewhat vintage status, which means their slightly outdated technology now has charm and mystique.  If the instruments sound good, what else matters?  Whether an instrument is new or old is irrelevant, except regarding maintenance.

I still come across posts on the forums that insist nothing in the DSI line-up can substitute for an Evolver.  I can't verify that opinion, but it seems to be a rather common one.

I'm all for the newer instruments, but their mere existence doesn't make me dislike the older ones at all.  I'd guess I could be happy with one or the other or both.

The Evolvers are cool for what they are. And if you're happy with how they sound and their features, you should hang on to them. Especially since they do have their unique sound. And it's the latter that makes it impossible to find a substitute for them. It's the particular combination of analog and digital waveforms and the true stereo signal path that is missing from newer instruments. And it's all this combined with the mod matrix that still makes the Evolver desktop an attractive instrument these days - either for those who are on a tight budget or those who are beginning to explore more complex forms of synthesis. There is nothing quite like it out there, which I'm not pointing out in order to mystify the Evolver. It's just based on the package the Evolver is and its particular ingredients.
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Razmo on December 27, 2015, 12:43:36 PM
Sure, the Evolver is a nice synth, and certainly it has been bettered by many newer synths, from DSI... but still it does have a very unique sound to it, thanx to many things... yes, one is it's stereo configuration, another is it's lo-fi digital oscillators... yet another it's analog oscillators and not to mention all that ADC/DAC going on under the hood... the user waveshape possibilities too.... all of these ingredients boil down to the sound of this thing, that makes it stand out and be untouchable by any other DSI synth.

The Evolvers have a remarkable midtone sound, that some like, others do not... I actualy talked to someone recently who wanted to sell his Rack version because he never liked it's "nasal sound character".... I like this character, and it reminds me of the hard but organic quality of the old Waldorf Microwave 1 synthesizer... I almost decided to sell my PER myself, but I'm glad I did not... I would have regretted it for the rest of my life I think.... despite all it's flaws, MIDI bugs and other pecularities.

In these Star Wars times I'd compare the PER to the Millenium Falcon.... it's an old piece of "junk", but it's still a gem... it's Dave's first incarnation of the idears he had when he began doing hardware synths again, and it's the father of A LOT of what has been developed into more modern standards in DSI instruments to follow it.... it's DNA is in all of them. Thus much of the technology suffers from being a bit older.... nasty digital oscillatorts, dodgy DAC/ADC, quirky CEM chips (that Dave learned to tame better in later products)... an OS coded in mostly assembly... the DSI "Millenium Falcon" reeks of newly designed idears carried out in perhaps not the best way it could have, but all that just boils down to THAT sound... the sound of the Evolvers.

Many of the never synths don't really bear that much of new technology... they are reitterations of this Evolver design, adding upon it, removing upon it, refining it and thgrowing in a few new things along the way.... that is what I'd like to see Dave do again... I mean... DROP IT ALL!!! ... throw away all those codebases for reuse... start FROM SCRATCH again! ... do something completely new and unseen like he did with the Evolver back then... I could say the same to Dave that he tell every customer in his manuals: "Tweak some knobs, have some fun!" ... I'll refrace that: "Tweak some components, have some fun!" .... invent playing around again, instead of just focusing so much upon what new product you can conjure up, using all the existing technologies he has allready made.

Just me sayin'...
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: dslsynth on December 27, 2015, 01:28:20 PM
that is what I'd like to see Dave do again... I mean... DROP IT ALL!!! ... throw away all those codebases for reuse... start FROM SCRATCH again! ... do something completely new and unseen like he did with the Evolver back then...

If one takes a close at most analog synthesizers the Oscillator-Filter-Amp structure is what happens all the time. Even the Evolver is Oscillator-Filter-Amp just with a few feedback paths and digital delays much like Prophet 12 and Pro 2 got it. Agree with you that the whole Prophet 08, Mopho, Tetra and Tempest voice architectures are essentially simplifications of the Evolver design with a few tweaks.

Take a look at a modular heinz compatible setup like this Richard Devine video below. If you read the description I guess you will find mostly Oscillator-Filter-Amp structures all over the cable mess. Its just how sound are made in the analog synthesizer world.
https://vimeo.com/139872178

But its not the same as saying that improvements cannot be made and that new ideas cannot be introduced. For evolving the Evolver concept I would suggest interviewing eurorack modular users to study what kind of module connection paths they use. Also with higher CV computation speeds made possible by faster signal processors new types of operations may make sense to introduce to DSI style voice architectures such as lowpass/highpass/slew filters in the modulation slots. Some time ago I took at look at the Oberheim Xpander manual. Quite interesting reading and good inspiration for future voice architectures.

Honestly I doubt we will ever see Dave progress from the basic Oscillator-Filter-Amp concept but one could hope for new variations on the theme. One of the most important aspects is proper integration of analog and digital sound sources before the filter which is why I keep talking about having both analog and digital oscillators in a voice architecture and furthermore have analog filter feedback for added sound shaping.

Basically I think we agree on the need for voice architecture progress, Razmo. I had a recent twitter talk with the Mutable Instrument owner and it seems like he is after combining some of his eurorack modules into a new voice architectures. I would love to see similar features happen in DSI voice architectures.

PS: Before you write modulation sloths again could I have you read this (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sloth) first, Razmo?
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on December 27, 2015, 01:46:15 PM
Well said, Razmo, actually. 

I think the first in a series is often the best and most unique.  I find when I improvise, say, ten pieces in a row that, as I fine-tune my ideas and themes, a certain mystique or originality is lost.  Afterwards, when I'm deciding which one to post, I always expect to prefer the later pieces, since these will have a deeper development of musical ideas that the early pieces lack.  But most often, I surprisingly prefer the first one, which sounds a bit less organized but more spontaneous and inspired (pardon the vanity). 

I think the same is true with Dave's line of instruments.  The Evolvers came out of nowhere - sort of a burst of inspiration and originality - full of imperfections and quirks, but with nothing immediately comparable.  As Dave progressed and refined his ideas, a degree of monotony set in.  There was the Prophet 08/Mopho/Tetra era with one very similar instrument after another.  Even I got bored with it all.  Finally the Prophet 12 appeared, which was then followed quite predictably by the Pro 2.  Both instruments were the products of the lessons learned on previous instruments and showed a maturing of concepts.  Following these, the P6 was a drastic change, and yet, it really was a ghost from the past, an updated Prophet 5. 

In the whole line-up, the Evolvers appear to me to be the most unique - and that's not to criticize the masterful P12 - and I guess this is why I have such a stubborn fondness for them.  Sure, there's plenty wrong with them, especially the aliasing of the digital oscillators, but there's still a massive amount of musicality in the engine.  I love the fact that the stereo signal is a matter of hardwired oscillators that can be adjusted by degrees.  It's an excellent starting point that avoids the loss of an LFO.  It's a fabulous instrument to sit with in a dimly lit music room and play into the wee hours.  That's when you know an instrument suits and inspires you, when the time disappears as you work/play, and suddenly you look at the clock and it's 3:30 in the morning.  I've had many-a-groggy morning, thanks to those Evolvers.

I've had a number of synthesizers over the years that I liked very much, but I couldn't call any of them unique.  The Poly Evolver Keyboard is totally unique.
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Razmo on December 27, 2015, 01:53:30 PM
But hey... Sloths are useful for extremely slow modulations! ;)

Actualy I don't mind the normal audio path modules at all... you know: tone generator -> Filter -> AMP... .this IS the basic building blocls of sound, and basicaly you don't have that many parameters to manipulate in audio.... you have pitch, and amplitude and that's it! .... filters are just volume controls for specific frequencies anyway.

What I do not like is the reuse of the same filters, the same oscillators etc... if Dave decides to continue using the new digital ones, it'll start to get boring ... in my opinion... it has been used on Pro2 and P12 now... it's tried and tested, I don'rt need more synths with that oscillator architecture.

I want something new.... and fiddling with interconnections between those basic building blocks would be welcome as well... but just not more reuse of the old.... the same goes for the LFO's Envelopes etc.... dump the darn codebase, and create some new ones... faster, more features... snappier! ...
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: dslsynth on December 27, 2015, 02:50:07 PM
The Evolvers came out of nowhere - sort of a burst of inspiration and originality - full of imperfections and quirks, but with nothing immediately comparable.  As Dave progressed and refined his ideas, a degree of monotony set in.

Good points on creativity, Sacred Synthesis!

Maybe one of the reasons is that Dave took his time in developing the Evolvers. Rumor says it took him a good two years to develop that voice architecture and its initial implementation. Noways DSI takes at most a year to make a new product and that leaves less time for experimentation and thought. So it would be nice if some background project happened at DSI with longer term idea being developed and experimented with until they were ready to see their first NAMM show as a product.

Also note the creative limitation of the Evolvers voice architecture: 2 x 64 voice parameters and 1 x 64 sequencer parameters. When studying newer DSI voice architectures its easy to spot the unfolding of certain shoehorned parameters as the voice architectures evolve. Maybe that limitation affected the voice architecture as well?
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Paul Dither on December 27, 2015, 02:53:45 PM
The Evolvers came out of nowhere - sort of a burst of inspiration and originality - full of imperfections and quirks, but with nothing immediately comparable.

Not really, at least not according to "The Prophet from Silicon Valley." A lot had to do with the improvements in chip design by second half of the 1980s, especially the Motorola chip DSP 56000 (1986). Already at Sequential there had been conversations about what would eventually become the Evolver. So that's not really out of nowhere, rather a potential instrument that only got to be realized years after Sequential went out of business.

As for the typical subtractive synth architecture: I too would be ready for something different. I would even consider it to be inevitable, since I don't really see what could be added to the concepts of the Prophet-12, Pro 2, or Prophet-6 other than quantitative aspects.
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on December 27, 2015, 02:56:13 PM
In interviews, Dave often refers to several things they're working on at once.  They do indeed fire out a new product every 9-12 months, but I would expect that they also have larger ideas that are kicking around the office for longer periods of time.  I would guess that the Prophet 12 was such an idea.
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on December 27, 2015, 03:03:19 PM
The Evolvers came out of nowhere - sort of a burst of inspiration and originality - full of imperfections and quirks, but with nothing immediately comparable.

Not really, at least not according to "The Prophet from Silicon Valley." A lot had to do with the improvements in chip design by second half of the 1980s, especially the Motorola chip DSP 56000 (1986). Already at Sequential there had been conversations about what would eventually become the Evolver. So that's not really out of nowhere, rather a potential instrument that only got to be realized years after Sequential went out of business.

Well, naturally there was discussion about ideas.  I didn't mean to imply that there wasn't long planning involved based on available technology.  But the Evolver Desktop was Dave's return to hardware synthesizers and the first DSI piece of gear.  And it was unique among other synthesizers of the day.  What other comparable hybrid instrument existed at the time?  At least, nothing that struck me when I was then researching synthesizers.
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Paul Dither on December 27, 2015, 05:13:44 PM
Well, naturally there was discussion about ideas.  I didn't mean to imply that there wasn't long planning involved based on available technology.  But the Evolver Desktop was Dave's return to hardware synthesizers and the first DSI piece of gear.  And it was unique among other synthesizers of the day.  What other comparable hybrid instrument existed at the time?  At least, nothing that struck me when I was then researching synthesizers.

Sure. I just wanted to point out that the Evolver technically didn't come out of nowhere and that the idea for it was based on the options more powerful processors and chips would allow for. As for its uniqueness I completely agree: there was and is nothing out there that's like the Evolver - neither with regard to sound nor features.
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: BobTheDog on December 27, 2015, 11:36:09 PM
When I first got my P12 my PEK never got played at all. I even began thinking maybe to store it away as I needed the space.

Recently though it has started getting used again, so I ended up getting another keyboard stand and squeezing it in rather than storing it.

So it must have something going for it!
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: dslsynth on December 28, 2015, 12:10:15 PM
Already at Sequential there had been conversations about what would eventually become the Evolver.

Thanks for the history lesson, Paul Dither! Gotta get and read that book one day. Its nice to know one of my favorite voice architectures have such a long history.

As for the typical subtractive synth architecture: I too would be ready for something different. I would even consider it to be inevitable, since I don't really see what could be added to the concepts of the Prophet-12, Pro 2, or Prophet-6 other than quantitative aspects.

Good question! As for heading in new directions I would as hinted to previously turn to experienced eurorack modular customers to look for new combinations. Would not be too surprised if new interesting voices happens initially by Mutable Instruments given all his digital signal processing knowledge and innovative character.

As for extending Pro 2 and Prophet 12 I would suggest analog and digital oscillators plus analog filter feedback on Prophet 12 for better analog tone shaping. That would have made them more similar to the Evolver but also improved their sonic substance noticeably.

What the Evolver did right was an interesting combination of analog and digital features. It was not be perfect and there are plenty of room for more features but it was a nice take on a complex modulation machine. These days we want more but the Evolver is a good starting point. In any case the eurorack world points in interesting new directions.
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Paul Dither on December 28, 2015, 12:43:58 PM
Already at Sequential there had been conversations about what would eventually become the Evolver.

Thanks for the history lesson, Paul Dither! Gotta get and read that book one day. Its nice to know one of my favorite voice architectures have such a long history.

Oh, it's just mentioned in a short paragraph. It would certainly be interesting to investigate a little further.

As for the typical subtractive synth architecture: I too would be ready for something different. I would even consider it to be inevitable, since I don't really see what could be added to the concepts of the Prophet-12, Pro 2, or Prophet-6 other than quantitative aspects.

Good question! As for heading in new directions I would as hinted to previously turn to experienced eurorack modular customers to look for new combinations. Would not be too surprised if new interesting voices happens initially by Mutable Instruments given all his digital signal processing knowledge and innovative character.

As for extending Pro 2 and Prophet 12 I would suggest analog and digital oscillators plus analog filter feedback on Prophet 12 for better analog tone shaping. That would have made them more similar to the Evolver but also improved their sonic substance noticeably.

What the Evolver did right was an interesting combination of analog and digital features. It was not be perfect and there are plenty of room for more features but it was a nice take on a complex modulation machine. These days we want more but the Evolver is a good starting point. In any case the eurorack world points in interesting new directions.

See, the problem is, if you would introduce something that is hybrid from the front end to the end of its signal path like the Evolver, you'd run the risk of cannibalizing the other instruments: For example, if you'd build something like a refined Evolver with the wavetables of the Prophet 12 and Pro 2, and the new VCOs that can be found in the Prophet-6.

My point is, I guess, if one likes the Evolver and how it sounds, why shouldn't one stick to it? Despite its quirks or remaining bugs it does have a unique sound that I would describe as a somehow bastardized sonic pallete from the 1980s to the early 2000s, which I mean in a totally positive sense.

On the other hand, if you wanna cover it all with the current DSI/Sequential palette, the best thing you could do is pairing a Prophet 12 with a Prophet-6. But I would never expect DSI to release a "can do it all" type of instrument that nobody could affort in the end. It's already quite cool that certain improvements of later instruments affected earlier releases, like the unison modes and the alternate tunings of the Prophet-6 that have been also implemented into the Prophet 12 right now.

What all of the current instruments still have in common though, is the classic signal path based on the subtractive synthesis model: oscillators, filter section, amp. The concept stood the test of time, it became popular because it's easy to use and most people can grasp what's going on. This has been enhanced quite successfully with the DSI-typical mod matrix and other neat ingredients (tuned feedback, distortion, character section, delays, etc.). At this moment, however, I have a hard time seeing this structure being further expanded without cannibalizing other instruments in the DSI catalog. That's basically, why I find it very hard to predict what DSI/Sequential might be up to at the coming NAMM.
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: dslsynth on December 28, 2015, 03:07:25 PM
Just remember that (1) there is a huge hole in the current lineup regarding affordable modules and (2) cannibalizing is a problem for the company not the customers!

. o O ( ;) )
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Paul Dither on December 28, 2015, 03:11:08 PM
Just remember that (1) there is a huge hole in the current lineup regarding affordable modules and (2) cannibalizing is a problem for the company not the customers!

. o O ( ;) )

Right, but precisely because of (2) I can't really see it happening. And yes, I agree with the "hole." One way to go about it would be testing the waters with a different approach packed into an affordable instrument.
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: dslsynth on December 28, 2015, 03:28:36 PM
Right, but precisely because of (2) I can't really see it happening. And yes, I agree with the "hole." One way to go about it would be testing the waters with a different approach packed into an affordable instrument.

Worse yet the "hole" is way larger than just the new voice architecture approaches. Getting a more affordable slice of a Prophet 12 or Prophet 6 is impossible.
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Paul Dither on December 28, 2015, 03:35:32 PM
Right, but precisely because of (2) I can't really see it happening. And yes, I agree with the "hole." One way to go about it would be testing the waters with a different approach packed into an affordable instrument.

Worse yet the "hole" is way larger than just the new voice architecture approaches. Getting a more affordable slice of a Prophet 12 or Prophet 6 is impossible.

Maybe, but what I meant is that they could repeat the same approach as with the Evolver Desktop. It didn't come out as a full-sized version first because Dave wanted to see how it's being received before going any further.

As for other small or midrange products: there's still Sequential's legacy with regard to sequencers and effect processors, even if it's not talked about that often.
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on December 28, 2015, 05:09:26 PM
I'd agree that the current absence of small DSI modules is a substantial loss for us and is quite at odds with the DSI name.  They do need a few smaller products around the $300-$500 range.  There's great advantage in being able to add on in a small way to a larger set-up, in a modular sort of way.  It allows for multi-timbrality with keyboards that lack it, and it's also a way of designing a unique set-up that's tailor-designed to the individual's needs, without breaking the bank. 

Surely there's a large clientele that is wondering if the company has forgotten about their needs.  DSI was once the best thing going for such synthesists.
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Razmo on December 29, 2015, 05:29:14 AM
Well... wait for NAMM... as far as I recall, Dave said that they had something new to show... and since the OS 1.3 that some speculated was "it", has been released now, then it must be something else... it could very well be the first low-price-range synth we'll see... just have to wait and see.
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: dslsynth on December 29, 2015, 05:37:51 AM
Good point and exactly my opinion, Sacred Synthesis!

The flagship models do attract a lot of attention but not everyone can afford them. Far from actually! So it will be interesting to see if DSI continues their current line of monument building (aka jewels) or if they will make more affordable smaller voice count models with some of the sonic goodies of their flagship models and hopefully complex modulations.

One way to handle the affordable module approach is to have sort of a standard desktop module layout that will be easy to integrate with a new voice board than when starting from a blank sheet of paper.

Anyway, nothing new under the sun. Or in the studio for the matter. Gearmas are coming up and we are speculating loudly as always!

. o O ( ::) )
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on December 29, 2015, 10:11:11 AM
I would love to see DSI produce modules much like the old Mopho and Tetra, but with a much better interface.  I had both, and they really pushed scrolling to the limits.  It's so handy to be able to add on small modules, but I think those two have served their time.  We need something similar but with a much better control panel.  I suppose the Prophet 12 Module sets a new standard.
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Paul Dither on December 29, 2015, 10:20:23 AM
I would love to see DSI produce modules much like the old Mopho and Tetra, but with a much better interface.  I had both, and they really pushed scrolling to the limits.  It's so handy to be able to add on small modules, but I think those two have served their time.  We need something similar but with a much better control panel.  I suppose the Prophet 12 Module sets a new standard.

Yeah, it's possible to introduce a new series of modules that are easier to handle by means of adding one or more OLED displays. The Futuresonus PARVA is a good example.

And like I've tried to express above: a module or desktop sized instrument could also serve as the perfect project for introducing something new without risking too much in entrepreneurial terms.
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: dslsynth on December 29, 2015, 10:21:38 AM
I suppose the Prophet 12 Module sets a new standard.

I was about to mention the Prophet 12 module as I read the start of your response. The combination of the OLED display with its knob/button user interface and a few page selection buttons makes a huge difference in ease of use.

Like to add my favorite pipe dream: a voice architecture with layers and a two voice module with external inputs that can be used for triggering too as that allows such a module to be used by live drummers as well and easily allows for stereo panned sounds when needed. Keeping the voice contents versus user interface costs as high as possible is a good idea if you ask me: value for money!
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: dslsynth on December 29, 2015, 11:06:14 AM
And like I've tried to express above: a module or desktop sized instrument could also serve as the perfect project for introducing something new without risking too much in entrepreneurial terms.

You did indeed express it above and I have to agree: would be a great idea if it happened in such a form.

Just like you mentioned the company needs above I like to consider one such here: when deciding on making a certain product one also decides not to spend time on making other potentially more noticeable/successful products. So I would like to see how DSI handles that priority/timing challenge.

Another thing is that when making a small voice count module cannibalization is of less concern as the people who can afford the more expensive instrument would buy that instead. However those of us with very small budgets gets a chance to get access to a sound that would otherwise not be possible.

:o . o O ( keeps on dreaming )
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on December 29, 2015, 11:21:27 AM
DSI may surprise us with such a small and reasonably priced hardwired module this NAMM, but I also wonder if the sophistication might be reserved for their keyboard/module version instruments, while the modular modules take up the new emphasis.  I mean, for those of us who want basic components like filters, oscillators, envelopes, and so on - just the basics - a small DSI modular might be the way to go, even concern cost.  I'd say a configuration like a Pro 2 plus a small analog modular could be a superb combination, with both worlds covered quite well.  It certainly would appeal to me. 

Here's an example (not my kind of stuff, but I can see the musical potential):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEz6b_Eo1qw

I'm waiting very excitedly to see what new instruments come from Moog, Korg/Arp, and DSI/Sequential.
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: dslsynth on December 29, 2015, 11:36:52 AM
Good question, Sacred Synthesis! Both Pro 2 and eurorack modules belongs in the kilodollar range whereas small desktop modules have it all in one MIDI controllable unit at a much more affordable price. Its two different things.

I have to agree with you that a Pro 2 and a well sounding analog semi-modular would be a great combo for those that can afford it. Also if you go in that direction I would suggest looking all over the eurorack world for the best sounding VCOs you can find. No need to keep it supplier specific when all units can operate together. Go for quality rather than brand!
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on December 29, 2015, 11:45:39 AM
Yes, either that or the other option, the hardwired module.  I'm interested in both types of modules.  I'm imaging either the Pro 2 or Prophet 6 being the base instrument, supplemented by some form of module(s).  A Moog Sub (37) Module would definitely hit the spot.  So, too, would a Korg/ARP 2600.  Yikes!  Lots of sweet synthetic dreams these days, and I'm not going to wait forever.
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: dslsynth on December 29, 2015, 12:00:46 PM
Its all about choices! Technical and/or artistic. The analysis phase is actually quite interesting so be sure to enjoy it while you enjoy what you already have. In my own case there are other obvious limits to what I can get so I keep on looking for well tasting ingredients that may or may not come together to one useful module one day.

Fun thing with the MEK btw. I was very sad to see it go but nowadays I am more interested in actual contents rather than front panel looks so I am happy with my current Evolver.

. o O ( moderator skill training needed sir! )
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on December 29, 2015, 12:07:12 PM
Yes, that little Evolver Desktop is a fine piece.  It's hard to imagine packing more synth power into such a small size.  The MEK was even more enjoyable to program.  Oh, don't get me singing the Evolver ballad again.
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: dslsynth on December 29, 2015, 12:16:26 PM
Using an editor on a computer with a touch user interface a compact module could be even more powerful as one can see most of the parameters at once and furthermore enjoy computer assisted sound exploration. Editing may also be faster than on a traditional synthesizer font panel. That is the actual reason for me wanting compact modules with powerful voice architectures.
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Razmo on December 30, 2015, 02:30:23 AM
Just give me a compact monophonic synth that will take over the Evolver desktop.

Make it stereo-path like the Evolver... Two analog oscillators from the P6, two digital oscillators from the Pro 2 ... Give it the Pro 2's dual filter, one for each side.

Add two more sample oscillators, once for each side too for creating small looped samples and wavetables.

Keep the Pro 2 sequencer, but just strip the physical controls off the device, to save on cost.

Throw in the FX engine of the P6 in the end.

Make a mode that allow you to set the audio output to mono, and split the two sides into two layers instead, giving you a duophonic two voice synth.

Price it at about the cost of a Tetra, but no more!

If you want to let it go even further... create a multi-mode, that split the device into a 6 part synth, with each oscillator working alone on their own MIDI channel, using the FX engine with send amounts from each part, preferably an individual output from each oscillator for individual processing... such a mode would be perfect for making the synth into a 6 part drummachine giving you fat analog kicks and toms via the analog oscillators, Wild Snares and percussion with the digital ones, and the sample oscillators could be for hard to synthesize sounds... Make each part capable of having two distinct sounds, controllable from a different MIDI channel, essentialy giving you 12 sounds, two of which share the same voice (useful for choking sounds like HiHat's etc.).

Regarding the sharing of the two filters... Let these be routable to individual oscillators like an insert effect, so you can choose where to use them for greatest  flexibility.

Maybe a module for this kind of studio drumbox would be best as a module on it's own though to not make it too complex.

Anf of course: FULL MIDI CONTROL!  ;D
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: dsetto on February 09, 2016, 02:22:55 PM
i'm glad to find you all here. comforting. (I had seen the PEK/PER noisebug listing & thought of SS.)
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on February 09, 2016, 02:27:17 PM
Actually, I do have one of my PEKs up for sale.  And I'm terrified some one will buy it!
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: dsetto on February 09, 2016, 03:07:38 PM
Hello. I stumbled into this nook because my instruments & synthesis desires led me to user waves. … However much all the DSI offspring entice, Tempest is my next. … And while I've never considered that in your land, I just did. And it was intriguing. (Think timpanis, bass drums, wood blocks, triangles, and space. Artful snare. What's harder to imagine … cymbals, gongs.) And I'm fairly sure that's last - if even included - in your long list of possible synthesizers to be.

But, I think that's the difference with Heaven and Earth. Percussion is grounded. And without, it floats.
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on February 10, 2016, 06:17:34 AM
I'm not quite sure if I understand you, Dsetto, so, please forgive me if I'm reading into your post a meaning that isn't there. 

It's true, I have no interest in the Tempest.  I have no interest in drum machines in general, nor in emphasizing rhythm as modern music does.  I much prefer and deliberately use a flowing free rhythm or rubato that allows the music to breath more easily and naturally.  That's my intent, anyway.   

However, classical percussion does interest me, and I've actually been thinking lately that I should add a few tuned percussive instruments to my set up -  triangle, chimes, and so on.  Timpani and gong would also be of use.  However, I don't listen to Tempest demos, nor have I heard any examples of the instrument producing the above-mentioned sounds.  So, if you have any suggestions - such as videos - I'd be interested to listen.
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: dsetto on February 10, 2016, 01:19:29 PM
I shouldn't have overstepped my bounds by making suggestions on your music. But, yes, you did get my oblique idea. And no, I don't know of any examples.
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on February 10, 2016, 01:22:53 PM
I appreciate your suggestion.  It's actually a good idea.  Thank you.
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on February 17, 2016, 06:37:10 PM
For anyone who cares, there is a fleet of Evolvers on Ebay right now.  I don't know if this is a part of the rush related to wanting the new OB-6, but it is unusual to see so many.
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Paul Dither on February 17, 2016, 06:51:57 PM
The dawn of a new era…
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on February 17, 2016, 07:05:01 PM
Sure, rub it in wise guy.  Why, I ought to go out and buy 'em all!
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Paul Dither on February 17, 2016, 07:13:40 PM
One man has to build the 32-voice Evolver. 8 voices for each quadrophonic corner. Pure Evolver-gasm.
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on February 17, 2016, 07:21:54 PM
I think a twelve-voice Evolver would be just right.  Arpeggio paradise.

By the way, Noisebug has some interesting offerings:

http://www.noisebug.net/used.cfm
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Paul Dither on February 17, 2016, 07:25:46 PM
I think a twelve-voice Evolver would be just right.  Arpeggio paradise.

By the way, Noisebug has some interesting offerings:

http://www.noisebug.net/used.cfm

You mean old school arpeggios? Because only the MEK has an Arpeggiator.
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Paul Dither on February 17, 2016, 07:28:14 PM
By the way, Noisebug has some interesting offerings:

http://www.noisebug.net/used.cfm

Yeah, I benefitted from those deals twice. You can't say no to a synth and a shot glass.
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Paul Dither on February 17, 2016, 07:32:58 PM
Btw, it's interesting to see the serial numbers on the boxes. The Prophet '08 is almost at 6000 and after not even a full year the Prophet-6 has sold in more quantities than the Prophet 12.
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on February 17, 2016, 07:36:32 PM
You mean old school arpeggios? Because only the MEK has an Arpeggiator.

Why, of course - played arpeggios.

You watch...you watch!  Some day there will be an Evolver revival.  Then everyone will want an Evolver.  All the kids will be dying their hair blue, and I'll be considered the coolest synthesist on Youtube!   8)
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Paul Dither on February 17, 2016, 07:42:30 PM
You mean old school arpeggios? Because only the MEK has an Arpeggiator.

Why, of course - played arpeggios.

You watch...you watch!  Some day there will be an Evolver revival.  Then everyone will want an Evolver.  All the kids will be dying their hair blue, and I'll be considered the coolest synthesist on Youtube!   8)

Actually, I was thinking about dying my hair grey-green. But I'm sure that the Evolver will reach a cult status in the future, quite similar to the Prophet VS, or even beyond since it came in so many variations.
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on February 17, 2016, 08:14:33 PM
My only hope now is that, in a few years, Korg will release the new Korg DSI Poly Evolver.  Oh wait, that would have mini keys.  Forget it....
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Paul Dither on February 17, 2016, 09:29:25 PM
My only hope now is that, in a few years, Korg will release the new Korg DSI Poly Evolver.  Oh wait, that would have mini keys.  Forget it....

Exactly!
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Paul Dither on February 17, 2016, 09:33:59 PM
My only hope now is that, in a few years, Korg will release the new Korg DSI Poly Evolver.  Oh wait, that would have mini keys.  Forget it....

That's a sort of uncanny thought, though. Maybe there's going to be a 40th anniversary edition with µ-keys™.
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on February 18, 2016, 05:57:32 AM
At last, the new Poly Evolver Keyboard Mini is now available in a handy four-inch size.  Finally, a super-compact PEK that won't take up valuable studio space, and that can be easily placed on top of any one of your fourteen drum machines.  Throw a hundred of them in your backpack, and even keep one in your wallet for those afternoon walks in the local park with your dog.  No batteries needed.

The new Poly Evolver Keyboard Mini.  Get one today, and experience the magnetism!

Now available at your local Staples and Office Depot.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dave-Smith-Instruments-Poly-Evolver-Synthesizer-Refrigerator-Magnet-/272128770568?hash=item3f5c238208:g:dMgAAOSw5VFWIXwl
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: chysn on February 18, 2016, 06:46:36 PM
For anyone who cares, there is a fleet of Evolvers on Ebay right now.  I don't know if this is a part of the rush related to wanting the new OB-6, but it is unusual to see so many.

I've noticed this, and it's taken an extraordinary amount of willpower to stop myself from buying an MEK.
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Paul Dither on February 18, 2016, 07:10:27 PM
For anyone who cares, there is a fleet of Evolvers on Ebay right now.  I don't know if this is a part of the rush related to wanting the new OB-6, but it is unusual to see so many.

I've noticed this, and it's taken an extraordinary amount of willpower to stop myself from buying an MEK.

I thought you were in the market for a Pro 2.
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on February 18, 2016, 07:12:35 PM
For anyone who cares, there is a fleet of Evolvers on Ebay right now.  I don't know if this is a part of the rush related to wanting the new OB-6, but it is unusual to see so many.

I've noticed this, and it's taken an extraordinary amount of willpower to stop myself from buying an MEK.

Honestly, Chysn, I'm strongly tempted to stay with what I know and do the same.  Today I came across a Poly Evolver Rack in my general area, and my tongue has been dragging on the ground ever since.
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: chysn on February 18, 2016, 07:39:16 PM
For anyone who cares, there is a fleet of Evolvers on Ebay right now.  I don't know if this is a part of the rush related to wanting the new OB-6, but it is unusual to see so many.

I've noticed this, and it's taken an extraordinary amount of willpower to stop myself from buying an MEK.

I thought you were in the market for a Pro 2.

And that's one of the things that stopped me. I think I like the Pro 2 filters a bit more, and if I bought an MEK, the Pro 2 option would be pretty much out. Since I've already got a Desktop Evolver, it's really not worth slamming that door.
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on February 18, 2016, 07:48:25 PM
Unless, of course, you'd like a polychained two-voice Evolver. 
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Paul Dither on February 18, 2016, 08:00:44 PM
Unless, of course, you'd like a polychained two-voice Evolver.

I was there and it made me want more at times. I think a MEK and a PER are an unbeatable and even portable solution in terms of Evolverism, but then PERs are usually pretty expensive and rare to find on Ebay. That said, I'd definitely start sweating if I saw a MEK+PER combo for about $2,000.
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Paul Dither on February 18, 2016, 08:01:38 PM
For anyone who cares, there is a fleet of Evolvers on Ebay right now.  I don't know if this is a part of the rush related to wanting the new OB-6, but it is unusual to see so many.

I've noticed this, and it's taken an extraordinary amount of willpower to stop myself from buying an MEK.

I thought you were in the market for a Pro 2.

And that's one of the things that stopped me. I think I like the Pro 2 filters a bit more, and if I bought an MEK, the Pro 2 option would be pretty much out. Since I've already got a Desktop Evolver, it's really not worth slamming that door.

Yeah, mainly two things convinced me to turn towards the Pro 2 in the end: the filters and the paraphonic option. I'd say it's the best filter combo on any DSI synth.
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on February 18, 2016, 08:20:21 PM
I'll take your word that the Pro 2's filter is better than the Evolver's, but the Evolver's stereo oscillators and filters are still outstanding.  There is a depth that is inherent to the Evolver sound.
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Paul Dither on February 18, 2016, 08:23:32 PM
I'll take your word that the Pro 2's filter is better than the Evolver's.  But the Evolver's stereo oscillators and filters are still outstanding.  There is a depth that is inherent to the Evolver sound.

Oh, there's no doubt about that. Just because I eventually decided for one thing doesn't mean that I don't like the other. I for one had to make a decision tough. If I could afford it all, I'd probably get it all, although I believe that limitation is better for the creative process.
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on February 18, 2016, 08:26:28 PM
 I think I could say, at this point, that having a very good sound in stereo is preferrable to having a great sound in mono.  A few years ago, I chose to sell my Voyager Old School and to keep my Mono Evolver Keyboard.  I've never regretted that decision.

Noisebug has a used PEK and PER pair for $3,000.  Does that not interest you?
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Paul Dither on February 18, 2016, 08:31:53 PM
I think I could say, at this point, that having a very good sound in stereo is preferrable to having a great sound in mono.  A few years ago, I chose to sell my Voyager Old School and to keep my Mono Evolver Keyboard.  I've never regretted that decision.

Wait, doesn't the Voyager have a stereo out?

Noisebug has a used PEK and PER pair for $3,000.  Does that not interest you?

I'm interested, but that alone doesn't generate the necessary budget.
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on February 18, 2016, 08:45:50 PM
The Voyager's filters can be split for some interesting effects, but that's not always a desirable sound and it was seldom the one I wanted.  The oscillators are in mono.
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on February 18, 2016, 08:47:35 PM
I'm interested, but that alone doesn't generate the necessary budget.

You'll have to give up the grey-green dye!
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Paul Dither on February 18, 2016, 08:49:45 PM
The Voyager's filters can be split for some interesting effects, but that's not always a desirable sound and it was seldom the one I wanted.  The oscillators are in mono.

Ah, I see. I knew that the oscillators were not hard-wired to the left and right outputs though.
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Paul Dither on February 18, 2016, 08:50:42 PM
I'm interested, but that alone doesn't generate the necessary budget.

You'll have to give up the grey-green dye!

Yeah, I'm afraid that alone won't help. Maybe one year on porridge and no more hairdresser will do.
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on February 18, 2016, 08:51:21 PM
If the Poly Evolver Rack is still available in a couple of months when I get a tax return, I'm going to have a difficult decision to make.  It's ironically coming down to either that or another Prophet '08 Module, which would complete my three-part Prophet '08 system. 
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Paul Dither on February 18, 2016, 08:52:23 PM
If the Poly Evolver Rack is still available in a couple of months when I get a tax return, I'm going to have a difficult decision to make.  It's ironically coming down to either that or another Prophet '08 Module, which would complete my three-part Prophet '08 system.

Oh, come on.  ;D
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on February 18, 2016, 08:58:24 PM
Oh, come on.  ;D

You better believe it, baby.  I'm into massive musical sound.  It's been my intention for a few years now to build up a three-unit Prophet '08.  I always get distracted by the release of new instruments, but then I calm down and revert back to my original plan.  The instrument only gets better as it gets bigger.  And with everybody jumping for the same new synthesizers, why not do something different and totally unique?  It would result in a sound unlike any other.
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Paul Dither on February 18, 2016, 09:01:34 PM
…with everybody jumping for the same new synthesizers…

That sounds like groundhog day in synth land.
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on February 18, 2016, 09:04:46 PM
The Voyager's filters can be split for some interesting effects, but that's not always a desirable sound and it was seldom the one I wanted.  The oscillators are in mono.

Ah, I see. I knew that the oscillators were not hard-wired to the left and right outputs though.

On the Voyager it's called the Filter Spacing parameter, and it's basically the same as the Evolver's Filter L/R Split parameter.
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on February 18, 2016, 09:06:52 PM
…with everybody jumping for the same new synthesizers…

That sounds like groundhog day in synth land.

Or like frogs in a synth pond.
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Paul Dither on February 18, 2016, 09:08:01 PM
The Voyager's filters can be split for some interesting effects, but that's not always a desirable sound and it was seldom the one I wanted.  The oscillators are in mono.

Ah, I see. I knew that the oscillators were not hard-wired to the left and right outputs though.

On the Voyager it's called the Filter Spacing parameter, and it's basically the same as the Evolver's Filter L/R Split parameter.

Yeah, I remember something like that. I never owned a Voyager so I don't know in great detail how it works with regard to its single parameters.
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on February 18, 2016, 09:15:43 PM
The Voyager was a fabulous instrument and a pleasure to tweak; I loved having a live real-time control panel, but I was shocked not to like its sound so much, especially its sawtooth.  It stuck out like a sore thumb in my recordings.  I could have tried a bit more processing to blend it better into the mix, but that's generally not what you want with analog synthesizers.  Why spend a small fortune on a pure analog sound if you're only going to drown it all in a mass of effects?  After Korg let me down by running its ARP Odyssey through the drier on high heat, I was hoping Moog would come to my mono synth rescue with a new Model D, as was widely rumored for this past winter NAMM.  Oh well.  So, I've mentally returned to my older intentions.
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Paul Dither on February 18, 2016, 09:35:54 PM
The Voyager was a fabulous instrument and a pleasure to tweak; I loved having a live real-time control panel, but I was shocked not to like its sound so much, especially its sawtooth.  It stuck out like a sore thumb in my recordings.  I could have tried a bit more processing to blend it better into the mix, but that's generally not what you want with analog synthesizers.  Why spend a small fortune on a pure analog sound if you're only going to drown it all in a mass of effects?  After Korg let me down by running its ARP Odyssey through the drier on high heat, I was hoping Moog would come to my mono synth rescue with a new Model D, as was widely rumored for this past winter NAMM.  Oh well.  So, I've mentally returned to my older intentions.

The Voyager was always out of my price range, especially for what it is I have to say. I for one like its sound and the built quality, but then it is also somewhat limited. But the limitation is not really the point, rather the price they've been asking for it. I mean I could certainly own one by now, but only at the cost of not having instruments like a Pro 2 for example.
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on February 18, 2016, 09:43:03 PM
Yes, indeed.  A brand new Voyager, together with a CP-251 and a hardshell case, was about as expensive as my last car!
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Paul Dither on February 19, 2016, 12:02:54 AM
Yes, indeed.  A brand new Voyager, together with a CP-251 and a hardshell case, was about as expensive as my last car!

That's a nice setup! What did you use the CP-251 for? I mean was there any other voltage controlled equipment involved?
And is that a Hammond XK-3 in the picture?
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on February 19, 2016, 05:37:44 AM
I used the CP-251 for adding a second LFO to the Voyager.  As always, I must have simultaneous PWM and vibrato, but at different rates.  The module did this well, but - as I also surprisingly found with the Voyager's Oscillator Frequency knobs - the slightest touch effected the setting, so that it was difficult to get it just where I wanted it.

And yes, that's a Hammond XK 3c.  It, too, was a beautiful instrument, but I just couldn't stand the sonic associations.  Whatever they were - bars, Jazz clubs, soap operas, skating rinks - I couldn't stand them.  They killed the dignity of my sound.  And it was sooooo seventies-ish.  Contrary to my reputation around here, I am the antithesis of nostalgia.  I don't want even a hint of it my music, and the Hammond is the sound that most rings with 70's and 80's nostalgia.  From the day it arrived at my old third-floor apartment, that organ didn't stand a chance with me.
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Paul Dither on February 19, 2016, 09:27:16 AM
I used the CP-251 for adding a second LFO to the Voyager.  As always, I must have simultaneous PWM and vibrato, but at different rates.  The module did this well, but - as I also surprisingly found with the Voyager's Oscillator Frequency knobs - the slightest touch effected the setting, so that it was difficult to get it just where I wanted it.

And yes, that's a Hammond XK 3c.  It, too, was a beautiful instrument, but I just couldn't stand the sonic associations.  Whatever they were - bars, Jazz clubs, soap operas, skating rinks - I couldn't stand them.  They killed the dignity of my sound.  And it was sooooo seventies-ish.  Contrary to my reputation around here, I am the antithesis of nostalgia.  I don't want even a hint of it my music, and the Hammond is the sound that most rings with 70's and 80's nostalgia.  From the day it arrived at my old third-floor apartment, that organ didn't stand a chance with me.

Gotcha. I used to have a Hammond XB-2 at some point, so I know what you mean. Why did you pick the Voyager Old Schoold over the regular one?
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on February 19, 2016, 10:07:29 AM
Instinct!  Plus, I disliked the look of the touch screen on the other editions, nor would I have any use for it.
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Soundquest on August 24, 2016, 01:15:46 PM
Back to the original title of this thread.  For what its worth,  my PEK will never be sold.  As I go thru the slow rotation of synths in my studio I find that whenever I land back at the Evolver the quality of sound and keyboard attributes really strikes me.   PO8 perhaps the close second for me.    I guess I bias a little more to PEK than the PO8, but only 'cause I do like having the digital waveforms.

People who have these should really hold on to them IMO.

Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on August 24, 2016, 03:52:04 PM
That's encouraging, Soundquest.  I haven't been able to afford a rotation of instruments, for deer reasons.  It's always good to hear that I've already got the best.  Thank you for the reminder.
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on November 22, 2016, 09:45:57 AM
I've complained here a bit about the Evolver's annoying digital aliasing.  I have to admit, however, that at times it strikes me as having a bit of charm of its own.  If you listen to the waveshapes by themselves, the noise in the upper registers can be quite off-putting.  But in the context of a piece of music, when subtle and only rare, a touch of that aliasing can be rather pretty in a mysterious sort of way. 
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: sterling mann on January 31, 2017, 05:38:26 AM
These aren't getting any easier to find. I've noticed the MEK prices have gone up considerably in just the last few months too.

Speaking of Evolvers and Voyagers I'm looking to trade my Voyager for a PEK, MEK + PER, etc. in Philly area:)
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 31, 2017, 10:06:05 AM
Many of the Evolvers that were on Ebay have been advertised on Reverb.  The hardest one to find is definitely the Poly Evolver Rack, but even this instrument, along with the other Evolver versions, can occasionally be found on Reverb.

https://reverb.com/marketplace?query=Evolver
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on February 08, 2017, 09:43:02 AM
Oh, for a Poly Evolver Keyboard REV2.  Eight voices, stack and split modes, onboard effects, cleaner digital wave shapes, and enough of that 'new and less expensive technology' to keep it well under $3,000.  Oh....
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: sterling mann on February 09, 2017, 02:31:15 PM
Many of the Evolvers that were on Ebay have been advertised on Reverb.  The hardest one to find is definitely the Poly Evolver Rack, but even this instrument, along with the other Evolver versions, can occasionally be found on Reverb.

https://reverb.com/marketplace?query=Evolver

Thanks! I scored a MEK PE from a dude on Reverb. He didn't know if it was PE or not and lucky for me it was. Now patiently on the lookout for a PER. Am I dreaming if I think I might find one for around $1000?
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on February 09, 2017, 04:50:06 PM
No, you're not.  $1,000 is the going price for Poly Evolver Racks. 

Oh...a MEK...mmm....I'm sure I was salivating over the very one you bought.  Congratulations!  It's still my favorite mono synth, alongside the Odyssey.
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: sterling mann on February 09, 2017, 05:01:53 PM
No, you're not.  $1,000 is the going price for Poly Evolver Racks
That's what I'm after..the rack:) So you're saying I should be able to score one for $1000?

Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on February 09, 2017, 06:36:51 PM
Definitely.  I watch Ebay, Reverb, and Craigslist, and although the Rack is fairly hard to find, when one does appear, it's always right around $1,000.  Hang in there and you'll find one.  If I come across one, I'll post it here or PM you.  Are you in the US?
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: sterling mann on February 09, 2017, 06:51:38 PM
Hang in there and you'll find one.  If I come across one, I'll post it here or PM you.  Are you in the US?

Yes, Philly area. Thanks!!
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Paul Dither on February 10, 2017, 02:24:11 PM
No, you're not.  $1,000 is the going price for Poly Evolver Racks.

That's super cheap. Usually I see them being offered between $1,400 and $2,000 while PEKs usually go for anything between $1,700 and $2,600.
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on February 10, 2017, 03:58:57 PM
I've seen sellers asking those prices, but generally not getting them.  A PER sold locally on Craigslist this past summer for $1,000 or less. 
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: sterling mann on February 10, 2017, 07:27:12 PM
Someone was selling a rack on muffwiggler last summer for $1000 so there is hope!  On the other hand there is a mono desktop on Reverb for $800 right now:/

Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on February 11, 2017, 02:37:36 PM
There's an Evolver Desktop on Amazon for $950!  That's highway robbery.  But the typical price is still $350-400.
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: chysn on February 16, 2017, 05:27:18 AM
There's an Evolver Desktop on Amazon for $950!  That's highway robbery.  But the typical price is still $350-400.

Amazon sellers often set ridiculous prices to remind themselves that something needs to be restocked or updated. A friend of mine wrote a book, and she currently sells it on Amazon for $20, but one retailer has it listed for $638.
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on February 16, 2017, 06:09:45 AM
I've many times found books on Amazon that were recently out-of-print going for $2,000 or more.
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: sterling mann on February 17, 2017, 10:08:41 AM
Well there's a rack on eBay for $1750 now with missing knobs. I've also been offered a few PERs at prices higher than I want to spend..think I'll just get a keyboard for around the same price.
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: sterling mann on February 21, 2017, 10:08:54 PM
Done searching for the rack. Picking up a PEK on Thursday!
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on February 22, 2017, 07:01:50 AM
For $1750?  Yikes.  So be it, if you're willing, but I definitely wouldn't pay that much, except for the keyboard version.  I see PEKs regularly for just a few hundred dollars more.  When I had temporarily posted mine for sale, it was for $2,000.  Well, if it's that valuable to you, enjoy it.
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on February 22, 2017, 11:58:02 AM
There are presently three Poly Evolver Keyboards on Reverb, going for $1,750, $1,995, and $2,000.  On Ebay there's an Evolver Desktop going for $385 or best offer.  These are the prices I see over and over.
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: sterling mann on March 23, 2017, 05:03:10 PM
Well I found a PEK locally and I'm in heaven! Going to sell my MEK now as I think 4 voices will be enough for me:)
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on March 23, 2017, 06:24:31 PM
Well I found a PEK locally and I'm in heaven! Going to sell my MEK now as I think 4 voices will be enough for me:)

Congratulations.  I'm curious; at what price did you get the Poly Evolver Keyboard?
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: sterling mann on March 23, 2017, 07:14:42 PM

Congratulations.  I'm curious; at what price did you get the Poly Evolver Keyboard?

Thanks! $1800..it's minty and PE so I'm happy.
Title: Re: PEK and PER for Sale
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on March 23, 2017, 07:33:56 PM

Congratulations.  I'm curious; at what price did you get the Poly Evolver Keyboard?

Thanks! $1800..it's minty and PE so I'm happy.

Wow.  That's an excellent price.  Good for you.