The Official Sequential/Oberheim Forum
SEQUENTIAL/DSI => Pro 2 => Topic started by: particlesintowaves on July 11, 2017, 04:15:57 PM
-
I just recently acquired a Pro-2 (literally yesterday) and have noticed something odd about the filter 2 cutoff. When using the knob, I can't get the filter to close all of the way. Only from 5 o'clock to about 1 o'clock do I hear any major changes in the sound. From below there, there isn't really any effect. It still only sounds about halfway cutoff. With resonance cranked up, I can actually hear the filter opening back up slightly in that range! I took a really quick video of this behavior here: https://www.instagram.com/p/BWbI7qJHrmd/
I can still close the filter all the way by using the mod matrix or a negative envelope, but it still doesn't scale properly with the cutoff knob if I use that as a workaround. I have tried rebooting and calibrating the filters several times but that does not seem to help. In fact one time the cutoff behavior changed entirely, making it almost bi-polar. In that instance, around noon to 1 o'clock was fully closed, while 7 and 5 o'clock were fully open! That was super strange. Another calibration stopped that, but it's still slightly opening back up when it should be closing all the way.
I'm not sure what else to try at this point. Does not seem this is the way it should be operating. A few guys on the Pro-2 Facebook group said they were also having this issue, but not everyone. Can anyone here replicate the issue?
Edit: I am on 1.3
-
Here's another video, this time showing the weird double polar behavior. Closed in the center, open on either side of the knob.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BWbMCMLHkDD/
-
Please contact our dedicated support channel: support@davesmithinstruments.com. We'll get you sorted out.
-
Please contact our dedicated support channel: support@davesmithinstruments.com. We'll get you sorted out.
Thanks! I will do that
-
My replacement board arrives today (assuming the UPS Nazis release it) so should be able to confirm the fix very soon.
Tip for anyone in the UK doing the same - send your board first and that way the return will be assumed 'not new' and therefore will not incur import charges.
Despite much effort, I was unable to convince UPS that this could be a repair situation unless I stuck to an order of events they could understand.
-
New board installed, behaviour is exactly the same. Would be grateful if Support watched the video I did again and replicated steps on an actual Pro2. It demonstrates the steps from a Basic Program so should be easy to follow.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dL7WyzArVE
-
Great hand signals of despair!
-
Confirmed on my end as well. Filter 2 won't close all the way without additional modulation from a slider.
I'm convinced though that the F2 cutoff was working properly, or at least better than it was up until I ran the filter calibration yesterday.
-
By any chance, is this a problem only when the filter Key Amount is being used?
-
By any chance, is this a problem only when the filter Key Amount is being used?
This happens on an Init patch with no key tracking engaged
-
That's wrong.
With keyboard tracking you sometimes have the use a DC offset to lower it but if it's doing it without and keyboard tracking it is ill.
-
If you can't figure out the cause, contact DSI Support:
Phone: (415) 830-6393 x1
Fax (707) 286-5501
email: support@davesmithinstruments.com
-
If you can't figure out the cause, contact DSI Support:
Phone: (415) 830-6393 x1
Fax (707) 286-5501
email: support@davesmithinstruments.com
Done that, will let you know how it goes. Someone just calibrated filters with cutoff at max on both and is now happy, didn't fix mine though.
-
My filter 2 cutoff problem (mimicking BongMystic's) started after I recalibrated my filters to see if I could recreate what Particlesintowaves' filter calibration was doing. Lol.
This may help some people though.
I recalibrated my filters a second time, but with both the cutoff knobs cranked all the way open to 164. Now my Filter 2 cutoff is behaving the way I'm used to; there's an extremely slight bleed that can only be heard in headphones but on the PA, it's closed.
-
I also just fixed my issue with a recalibration - except my F2 knob was at 0, not 164. Maybe try that too?
-
Want to add that before I did this last calibration with the knob turned to zero, I ran the calibration clear function in the debug menu
-
I too found that calibrating with the filter knobs at zero gave the best results. I also tried clearing the calibration and even initializing it, no messages on screen to say anything happened when taking the option though.
The filter isn't quite closed but I believe it's as good as it is gonna get, can live with it. No need to return main boards for this one folks (returning the one I got today).
Some speculation (for what it's worth):
Maybe the calibration routine affects only the pot range when it compensates for component differences in the filter circuitry. So rather than compensating for all modulation sources it may just add an offset to the cut-off pot's range. That offset then buggers up the overall range available to control from that pot. Since the filter's control CV is generated entirely by software this suggests a problem in the calibration coding. This may explain why, despite an apparent range of greater than 7-bit (0-127), the actual filter movement (for both VCFs) is not spread over the knob's full range of travel. Anyway, hey ho, back to making music. ;)
-
Im so glad someone started this thread. Mine is doing exactly the same thing. Not the double open but not being closed at 0. Basically until i turn the F2 cutoff to about 90 nothing changes in sound!
Hardware or software issue?
-
Want to add that before I did this last calibration with the knob turned to zero, I ran the calibration clear function in the debug menu
How do you access the debug menu?
-
Im so glad someone started this thread. Mine is doing exactly the same thing. Not the double open but not being closed at 0. Basically until i turn the F2 cutoff to about 90 nothing changes in sound!
Hardware or software issue?
Bizarrely, DSI say this particular filter design they implemented will never close fully. The 'explanation' is that it's due to the architecture of the filter's electronics. A cynical person (not I) might say they spent too long getting their filters direct from Curtis chips... fortunately I like the synth enough to tolerate this unfortunate kink.
-
The thing is that I can get F1 to fully close by running the calibration a few times, F2 never really closes and the cutoff is not as smooth as F1. F2 when sweeping has a point between 100 and 130 where there are no changes in sound.
-
Brand new Pro 2 just opened today and seeing the same behaviour here.
Tried running the filter calibration but no change.
Have emailed support - any other suggestions?
-
When i find the solution i’ll post it here, seems like afew others on here have had the same issue but no followup on what fixed it..
A temporary frustration with my brand new Pro 2 I hope!
-
drxcm FYI the debug menu can be accessed by pressing ‘Octave Up’ and ‘Down’ buttons along with ‘Global' at the same time. Just be wary while in this menu page.
-
drxcm FYI the debug menu can be accessed by pressing ‘Octave Up’ and ‘Down’ buttons along with ‘Global' at the same time. Just be wary while in this menu page.
Thanks, but what do i do in the debug menu to fix this?
-
Dsi claimed that the filler tuning inconsistency was fixed but it is not. I tried to calibrate my filter a few weeks ago and afterwards F2 wouldn't close fully.
I must've ran the calibration unsuccessfully 10 times and then randomly it went back to closing fully.
Brand new Pro 2 just opened today and seeing the same behaviour here.
Tried running the filter calibration but no change.
Have emailed support - any other suggestions?
-
1. I would do as DSI recommend on this post https://forum.sequential.com/index.php/topic,2742.0.html
2. If previous suggestion fails I would set every knob/button to it's minimum/default position then try again.
3. If above suggestion also fails then go into the debug menu Clear Calibration and try again.
I myself have not noticed this problem. As you can read, people have had a hit and miss experience. However, upon delivery of my Pro2 it did need calibrating straight out of the box which I did. Good luck.
-
1. I would do as DSI recommend on this post https://forum.sequential.com/index.php/topic,2742.0.html
2. If previous suggestion fails I would set every knob/button to it's minimum/default position then try again.
3. If above suggestion also fails then go into the debug menu Clear Calibration and try again.
I myself have not noticed this problem. As you can read, people have had a hit and miss experience. However, upon delivery of my Pro2 it did need calibrating straight out of the box which I did. Good luck.
Thanks. None of this has worked. Interesting that the thread you posted saif the bug was fixed ina beta OS but I’m running the latest OS and its still there.
I’ll wait to see what support suggssts
-
To note, due to the filter's different topologies, filter 2 will never cut as much low end as filter 1.
There is danger in users presuming that the filter's expected behavior is related to a previously resolved bug. Please contact us directly in this regard so we can assess whether the synth is working correctly or not.
-
Ok, so I've been in touch with support. My issue was identical to the video posted earlier in this thread.
The advice provided by Sequential support was quick and helpful, but did not resolve the issue without my own experimentation.
It was only after considerable experimentation that I was able to get the filter 2 cutoff to behave what I presume is correctly.
The initial advice was to run the filter autotune with the F2 cutoff and resonance knobs fully counter clockwise. This initially produced a dead zone between fully counterclockwise and 11 oclock, but addressed the strange bipolar issue I was having.
Then this advice was corrected, and I was told I should instead have run it with those knobs fully clockwise. I did and this reverted the behaviour to the original problematic state.
Running the calibration did not consistently reproduce the above behaviour. It was very hit and miss. Sometimes no effect, sometimes a big effect on the knob behaviour. Nothing consistent. Even when clearing the calibrations in the debug menu first.
I eventually got to a good result, after a lot of experimentation, with the following routine:
I cleared the calibration again.
Then ran the filter autotune / calibration with F2 cutoff / resonance knobs fully counterclockwise
This got rid of the bipolar behaviour in my video, and reproduced the pot’s dead zone from fully counterclockwise to noon before the filter audibly started to respond (ie where I got to the first time).
This time however, each time a calibration was run resulted in successive improvements in the response.
The first run resulted in the bottom 1/2 of the filter pot travel being “dead”
The second run resulted in the bottom 1/3 of the pot travel “dead”
The third run resulted in behaviour “within normal spec” with the far ends of the pot travel being relatively symmetrically dead but the pot working correctly.
Seems to be acceptable in terms of functionality at the moment, but I’m not sure now if it’s “normal” or not.
-
Hi, received my brand new Pro2 a few days ago, updated it to the latest OS (1.4.0.1)...I had the issue from video 2; low/high/band/notch all have the same behaviour on each side of the midpoint..meaning all the sounds I have made so far are probably wasted if I ever get them to behave correctly...
After running the filter calibration several times (and before this in the debug menu: first 7)initialize calibration then 1)clear calibration) I had one pass when filter2 was almost working as expected...
But the real change came after a calibration that didn´t work (back to the same old behaviour), but then I calibrated the Wheels, and just wanted to check...and all of the sudden filter2 was behaving completely superb, even from top to bottom in all modes...
Very, very strange!!
But anyway, it worked for filter2.
However, filter1 now does not output any sound before the pot reaching about 54. From 54 and up it seems to behave normally. Also the graphical display shows the filter stops around midway down...However, watching the meters in my DAW, the moving of the pot between 0-54 outputs, presumably, very low freq sound...back to beta-testing :(
UPDATE...and the first pass of the filter calibration returned me to the exact same bipolar situation on filter2 as before :-[ I´m amazed (sort of)
-
UPDATE 2
After almost giving up, I gave the calibration a shot with both the cutoff and resonance set to maximum on both filters...that did the trick for Filter2...
Filter 1 still has this strange output of very LF sound while moving the cutoff pot from 0 all the way up to 39 or so when it starts to output audible, normal sound...I can hear small LF-pops in my subs at ridicolous listening levels between 0-39...
Thanks for a great, great instrument (when it works properly ;-)
best regards
Audun K
Norway
-
hi,
any news on filter 2 issue?
i am experiencing the same problem, and i think this is oddly related to my sliders misbehaving.
only way i succeded getting filter 2 working correctly is recalibrating my sliders before running the filter autotuning process.
it appeared during this process that my sliders can be glitchy when i tap them at the lower bottom side (~1 time every 10 taps).
also in the calibration process the lower side of the sliders can display weird values, leading to a faulty calibration.
once i tried a slider calibration trying to avoid this behavior and crazy values, filter autotuning worked and i got back my filter 2 working.
anyone?
-
HI All,
I am also having this issue. I'm in contact with support who want to send me a new main board. Have any of you solved this issue via board replacement? @bongmystic I know you said that you did not...
@pluc, I notice the same thing with slider value jumping, but calibrating the sliders doesn't seem to net any improvement for Filter behavior :(
-
I just bought a used Pro 2 and I have the same problem with filter 2 as msflsim "...F2 never really closes and the cutoff is not as smooth as F1. F2 when sweeping has a point between 100 and 130 where there are no changes in sound".
I have tried initializing, clearing and calibrating the filters many times
Is there a solution for this problem?
Thanks !!
-
Hi,
I have been talking to Sequential support and they have told me that I have to send my PRO-2 to repair my filter 2.
Sequential support has been very quick and kindly to reply and propose a solution.
Thanks !!
-
So are Sequential finally admitting that the issue is hardware rather than software?
I've run into this problem many times and the solution is random every single time. Sometimes I have to run the calibration 15 times before I get "lucky" and filter 2 works properly and other times I only need to run it 2 or 3 times.
Hi,
I have been talking to Sequential support and they have told me that I have to send my PRO-2 to repair my filter 2.
Sequential support has been very quick and kindly to reply and propose a solution.
Thanks !!