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SEQUENTIAL/DSI => Prophet => Prophet Rev2 => Topic started by: Paratriplel on June 23, 2017, 03:07:20 AM

Title: Prophet Rev 2 tutorial
Post by: Paratriplel on June 23, 2017, 03:07:20 AM
Hello everyone. This is my first post on this forum.

I would really like to get some tips on my new Prophet Rev 2.
I've owned two synthesizers before (last one a Nord lead 2x) and never learned it properly.

I want to have a different relationship with my new synth, and I guess one of the things would be to learn it's basics and more.

My knowledge right now is very vague and I really don't know what will happen to the sound when I turn the knobs except for the filters and amplifiers ADSR and a little more.

So I'd really love a good video tutorial. I'd even be okay paying 10-20 bucks if it was really good.

What I'm mostly interested in is the basics. I'm not that interested in really advanced sound design.

Any tips and tricks are welcome though. And if there's a good explaining video about synthesizers in generall I wgender appreciate if someone would share a link or two.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Prophet Rev 2 tutorial
Post by: kobuz on June 23, 2017, 03:44:21 AM
It costs around 50 euros, but I really had a lot of fun and learning with this book from Rob Papen: The Four Element Synth. Accompanied with 4 dvds with examples it goes really thorough through the basics of synthesis, which can be applied to lots of synths.
Title: Re: Prophet Rev 2 tutorial
Post by: double-u on June 23, 2017, 04:43:31 AM
Another couple places to look into:

1) Syntorial is a tutorial app that teaches sound design on synths by ear, but kinda expensive; try the 22 lesson demo and see how that works for you. google it.

2) Fred Welsh's "Synthesizer Cookbook" is like 20 bucks on amazon and teaches from a harmonic perspective
Title: Re: Prophet Rev 2 tutorial
Post by: jigdagod on June 23, 2017, 04:36:38 PM
It costs around 50 euros, but I really had a lot of fun and learning with this book from Rob Papen: The Four Element Synth. Accompanied with 4 dvds with examples it goes really thorough through the basics of synthesis, which can be applied to lots of synths.

Thanks for reminding me that I still need to get this.

Here is one based on the Prophet 6.
https://www.askvideo.com/course/prophet-6-101-prophet-6-revealed
Title: Re: Prophet Rev 2 tutorial
Post by: Paratriplel on June 26, 2017, 04:25:52 AM
Thanks for all the answers!

I've started to check out Syntorial, really feels like my type of learning method :).
Hope there soon will be some good videos teaching the Prophet Rev 2 in particular just to really dig in to all it's functions and possibilities, though it would of course be better to have a general understanding of synthesizers and I'm sure the basics will be alright learning this way but I'm skeptical I'll be able (as I feel right now with my level of knowledge) that I'd be able to take any advanced sound designing and apply to Prophet Rev 2 but we'll see when I've given it a go!
Title: Re: Prophet Rev 2 tutorial
Post by: MDMA on June 26, 2017, 05:23:44 AM
In my experience, some of the best sounds I've created are by accident. The whole point of a "knobbly" type interface is the ease at which to edit and manipulate the sound.
My advice would be to not view it as a scientific piece of kit that requires your complete understanding before you twist a knob. Dive in and twist away...I mean, what's the worst that's gonna happen.  Trial and error while your learning is going to be the best and most fun way to get your head around things.

Just have fun making noise!!
Title: Re: Prophet Rev 2 tutorial
Post by: jigdagod on June 26, 2017, 01:25:23 PM
Thanks for all the answers!

I've started to check out Syntorial, really feels like my type of learning method :).
Hope there soon will be some good videos teaching the Prophet Rev 2 in particular just to really dig in to all it's functions and possibilities, though it would of course be better to have a general understanding of synthesizers and I'm sure the basics will be alright learning this way but I'm skeptical I'll be able (as I feel right now with my level of knowledge) that I'd be able to take any advanced sound designing and apply to Prophet Rev 2 but we'll see when I've given it a go!

I completely agree with what you're saying. I took the Syntorial course and it did help me get a better understand since I was brand new to synth. Now I just feel like how do I get to the next level. More advanced techniques.  I'm now going through the recommended Rob Papen videos.
Title: Re: Prophet Rev 2 tutorial
Post by: kobuz on June 26, 2017, 11:41:06 PM
In my experience, some of the best sounds I've created are by accident. The whole point of a "knobbly" type interface is the ease at which to edit and manipulate the sound.
My advice would be to not view it as a scientific piece of kit that requires your complete understanding before you twist a knob. Dive in and twist away...I mean, what's the worst that's gonna happen.  Trial and error while your learning is going to be the best and most fun way to get your head around things.

Just have fun making noise!!

I partly agree with you, though it is a good thing to at least know some basics of the differenct functionalities available for you. When I got past just knowing about the filter cutoff/resonance and the amp envelope, a world of new sounds became available. Still lots to learn and love doing that by trial and error. One of the reasons I try to only buy synths or other equipement with as much 'one button a function' as possible :)
Title: Re: Prophet Rev 2 tutorial
Post by: Paratriplel on July 02, 2017, 05:06:39 AM
Hello again.

I've started doing some exercises with Syntorial-demo, and I think it can be useful when I get to the more advanced / basics.

I gave it a try to re-create a sound from Logic's stack instruments/synths, that I actually once made a sound I was fairly pleased with on my old Nord Lead 2x. But didn't come far with it, messed around with a completely wrong tone for over an hour..

I realized that I could learn a thing or two if I asked here.

The sound I'm talking about is Analog Perc Sync/JP8 Perc Sync.

I recorded a little clip here for those who doesn't have Logic and aren't familiar with it.
Would be so grateful if someone could explain to me how to re-create a similar sound like this:

In the clip I've turned off the compressor and stereo delay to get the cleanest sound (though the delay kicks in for a couple of seconds in the middle, just to show you what I'm after with this sound).

Anyone want to point me in the right direction? Maybe explain how I'm supposed to analyze the settings of the soft-synth and how to use it on my Prophet REV 2?
Even give me a full walk-through on how to recreate it?
I would learn so much when later experimenting further with it.

Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Prophet Rev 2 tutorial
Post by: Paratriplel on July 04, 2017, 03:22:17 AM
Or if this isn't the place to ask this kind of thing. Could anyone point me in the right direction? :-)
Title: Re: Prophet Rev 2 tutorial
Post by: Morgenspaziergang on July 04, 2017, 05:48:13 AM
Have you driven by youtube or Vimeo and searched with your search terms? I am certain there are videos out there that wil help you.

Also look at the site "Lynda.com". Lots of tutorials there for many different things.
Title: Re: Prophet Rev 2 tutorial
Post by: Paratriplel on July 04, 2017, 07:46:23 AM
I've tried searching but I haven't really gotten the results I was looking for when I quickly looked through my search results.

The reason I'm really looking for a Prophet Rev 2 tutorial is because the way I learn things is to learn one series of steps on how to do something (not to basic) on one specific, in this case, synthesizer and expand my knowledge small steps at a time and after that widen that knowledge to, in this case, other synthesizers.

Since this is my learning technique with lots of things, it's harder for me to actually learn something on synthesizer 1 to preform on synthesizer 2 until I know synthesizer 2 as good as I have a full understanding of every step I make.

Not sure if I explained that good or not but I hope you get what I'm talking about.

Will check out some general synthesizer programming classes on Lynda.com though and hope they will give me a good grip :-).
Title: Re: Prophet Rev 2 tutorial
Post by: Robot Heart on July 05, 2017, 03:21:19 PM
Another excellent resource is Sound On Sound's Synth Secrets series:

http://sonicbloom.net/en/63-in-depth-synthesis-tutorials-by-sound-on-sound/

They cover a wide variety of topics and can be applied to pretty much any subtractive synth.
Title: Re: Prophet Rev 2 tutorial
Post by: kobuz on July 06, 2017, 12:07:24 AM
Did you read the manual completely? It has lots of information about all the functions and even basic explanation about th theory behind them. I you come across something you don't understand you can try to find something about that on youtube or Lynda or something. That way, you'll be learning a lot more focussed on the functionalities of the prophet specifically instead of synthesis in general.

I would also love it if someone would make hours of video explaining how to do what on the prophet but my guess that's not gonna happen. Did you check out the book from Rob Papen? He uses different synths to explain the theory and I found that I was easily able to project that on the synth I was learning.
Title: Re: Prophet Rev 2 tutorial
Post by: Gerry Havinga on July 06, 2017, 01:45:58 AM
As I will be a very fresh Prophet Rev2 user I might be in a good position writing a set of tutorials, I do not like tutorials in video format. I was thinking of writing some "recipes" combined with short audio snippets uploaded to SoundCloud where appropriate. I can publish the tutorials through my own company website or Google or something similar. Of course the tutorials will need to add value to the already excellent Prophet Rev2 manual. If there is interest in this, perhaps we can post some tutorial topics here, for example:

Title: Re: Prophet Rev 2 tutorial
Post by: jigdagod on July 06, 2017, 09:57:40 AM
As I will be a very fresh Prophet Rev2 user I might be in a good position writing a set of tutorials, I do not like tutorials in video format. I was thinking of writing some "recipes" combined with short audio snippets uploaded to SoundCloud where appropriate. I can publish the tutorials through my own company website or Google or something similar. Of course the tutorials will need to add value to the already excellent Prophet Rev2 manual. If there is interest in this, perhaps we can post some tutorial topics here, for example:

  • Creating simple brass style sounds
  • Creating simple <fill_in> style sounds
  • Understand the Prophet Rev2 modulation matrix by example

I think this would be great. I struggle with the mod matrix since there is so many destinations and trying to understand what each can do is a little too much at times.
Title: Re: Prophet Rev 2 tutorial
Post by: Gerry Havinga on July 06, 2017, 11:45:05 AM
I think this would be great. I struggle with the mod matrix since there is so many destinations and trying to understand what each can do is a little too much at times.

I see what I can do. As soon as my Rev 2 has arrived I will start to investigate and make notes. This is my "natural"  way of learning things and could become the basis of the tutorials. The really great thing about synths such as the Rev 2 is the immediacy of the "user" interface. I didn't manage to understand the inner workings of my Waldorf Blofeld until I installed and learned to work with a computer based Blofeld editor. After I managed to develop an internal picture of how the inner sound engine was structured, the annoying Blofeld desktop interface became easier to understand.

In my opinion what makes a great synthesizer design is an internal "engine" that facilitates many different ways of shaping and changing (in time) of the original sound generated. What I have heard so far, regarding the Rev 2, is absolutely wonderful. Sacred Synthesis, using the Prophet 8 and other DSI synths, is a master at creating sounds that change in time and space, never sounding dull. Listen to his videos, close your eyes and try to work out what it is that changes in the sound, given that they all originate from relatively simple electronic oscillators and wave shapers.
Title: Re: Prophet Rev 2 tutorial
Post by: Paratriplel on July 16, 2017, 11:05:36 PM
As I will be a very fresh Prophet Rev2 user I might be in a good position writing a set of tutorials, I do not like tutorials in video format. I was thinking of writing some "recipes" combined with short audio snippets uploaded to SoundCloud where appropriate. I can publish the tutorials through my own company website or Google or something similar. Of course the tutorials will need to add value to the already excellent Prophet Rev2 manual. If there is interest in this, perhaps we can post some tutorial topics here, for example:

  • Creating simple brass style sounds
  • Creating simple <fill_in> style sounds
  • Understand the Prophet Rev2 modulation matrix by example

I also would really like and appreciate this, and of course a tutorial doesn't have to be in video format, I actually prefer when they are not to really be able to read into and try it in my own pace.

And just to give a reply to previous posts since the last time I was here, I really appreciate all tips and I'm looking into these, also finally had the chance to sit down and play around with my Prophet Rev 2. I'm able to get some really good sounds, the reason I want to learn more about how to do create and change the sounds is because I'm unable to create the sounds I've got in my head.
I posted this thread because I've seen there's a couple of tutorials out there for other DSI synths and figured that someone with good understanding and knowledge might be inspired to create a tutorial for some pretty basic understanding.

Hope you're Prophet Rev 2 has arrived Gerry Havinga by now, otherwise you're welcome to come and play around with mine :-).
Title: Re: Prophet Rev 2 tutorial
Post by: Gerry Havinga on July 17, 2017, 12:04:16 AM
Hope you're Prophet Rev 2 has arrived Gerry Havinga by now, otherwise you're welcome to come and play around with mine :-).

Whoaa that is a nice offer, thank you.

My favorite shop ;) has confirmed they expect their first delivery of 10 eight voice Rev2s sometime at the beginning of this week.  The owner told me I am at the top of their list to call. As soon as I get the call, I am out of here (work that is) and drive down to collect it. I will take a day off work to dive into the architecture, in the meantime I have read the full manual almost twice. I jotted down my first notes and ideas on how I want to setup the tutorials. 

If the Rev2 hasn't arrived this week I might take you up on your offer.
Title: Re: Prophet Rev 2 tutorial
Post by: stb on July 17, 2017, 01:33:10 AM
Hope you're Prophet Rev 2 has arrived Gerry Havinga by now, otherwise you're welcome to come and play around with mine :-).

Whoaa that is a nice offer, thank you.

My favorite shop ;) has confirmed they expect their first delivery of 10 eight voice Rev2s sometime at the beginning of this week.  The owner told me I am at the top of their list to call. As soon as I get the call, I am out of here (work that is) and drive down to collect it. I will take a day off work to dive into the architecture, in the meantime I have read the full manual almost twice. I jotted down my first notes and ideas on how I want to setup the tutorials. 

If the Rev2 hasn't arrived this week I might take you up on your offer.

I'm really looking forward to hearing your first thoughts once you could spent some time with the REV2! You seem to have a much more thought-out approach to your purchase that than I have had ;)

I've had mine for almost a month now. I feel fairly familiar with it now and it didn't take a lot of time getting used to it. It's very intuitive. Still I'm learning new things about it every day. ATM I try to back-engineer some of the presets to become a bit more focused in my sound design. I think you're going to have a great time with it, Gerry!
Title: Re: Prophet Rev 2 tutorial
Post by: Gerry Havinga on July 20, 2017, 05:03:49 AM
Unfortunately still no definite date for the arrival of my Rev 2 here in the Netherlands. I did get a message from the shop today that DSI has apologized for the delays. Apparently there were some unforeseen circumstances (encoder troubles perhaps ….). The timing is pretty bad now, as I am travelling abroad a few times in the next 4 weeks. So I won't have time to get familiar and start writing some recipes before last week of August. But the August and September months will be even sweeter now ….
Title: Re: Prophet Rev 2 tutorial
Post by: MDMA on July 20, 2017, 01:47:52 PM
You are one patient fella!!
Title: Re: Prophet Rev 2 tutorial
Post by: Morgenspaziergang on July 21, 2017, 01:47:14 AM

goedemorgen kameraad!


i had a pre order for close to 3 months here in the US through sweetwater. i just took ownership of mine today (16 Voice).

i too think it may have been due to the encoders, but that's pure speculation.

the build quality is amazing. just as the build quality on the ob6. solid.. knobby.... :D

worth the wait vriend!
Title: Re: Prophet Rev 2 tutorial
Post by: Gerry Havinga on July 21, 2017, 03:45:52 AM

goedemorgen kameraad!


i had a pre order for close to 3 months here in the US through sweetwater. i just took ownership of mine today (16 Voice).

i too think it may have been due to the encoders, but that's pure speculation.

the build quality is amazing. just as the build quality on the ob6. solid.. knobby.... :D

worth the wait vriend!

Goede morgen!

In this case I do have a lot of patience happily .... doesn't apply to everything in my live  :).

While waiting I explored the SL License I purchased last weekend for the Blofeld. I am trying to make the Blofeld sound like a Mellotron,  8) :)

I do believe now when I am back from Munich next week Wednesday evening, I can pick up the Rev 2 on Thursday in Eindhoven. I will keep you posted and as soon as I have it unpacked and connected I will start making notes. This is the first time in my (long) live I have bought a brand new professional stage synth. I am planning to approach learning the ins and outs also professionally. That means making notes, writing recipes and so on as if writing the documentation for a Perl script (in joke here).
Title: Re: Prophet Rev 2 tutorial
Post by: DHTech on July 21, 2017, 04:10:15 AM
I think you need to rename this thread as it has little to do with tutorials, maybe 'one mans journey to owing a REV2', LOL
Title: Re: Prophet Rev 2 tutorial
Post by: Gerry Havinga on July 21, 2017, 05:14:01 AM
I think you need to rename this thread as it has little to do with tutorials, maybe 'one mans journey to owing a REV2', LOL

Yes you are so right, sorry about that. I will shut up now in this thread till I have something relevant to share.  :)
Title: Re: Prophet Rev 2 tutorial
Post by: Paratriplel on July 22, 2017, 01:31:23 AM
I think you need to rename this thread as it has little to do with tutorials, maybe 'one mans journey to owing a REV2', LOL

Yes you are so right, sorry about that. I will shut up now in this thread till I have something relevant to share.  :)
[/

No need to apollegize! I feel that this thread is actually more on topic than it was for the first few replies (that was more about generall synth programming rather than stuff that was concerning prophet rev 2 programming) and were several people waiting to see what you've got up your sleeve for the tutorial, and I appreciate the update about the Rev 2 being a bit late and is now due for late summer. At least I know the tutorial is coming!
And as I said if frustration is getting too big you're welcome to Stockholm Sweden for a sound design session :-).
Hope you'll get yours a bit earlier than expected so you'll have a chance to play around with it a couple of days before going abroad.
Title: Re: Prophet Rev 2 tutorial
Post by: Morgenspaziergang on July 22, 2017, 06:09:00 PM
this is a cool journey/blog into getting the rev2.

i also appreciaet this site, over say, gear slutz, as many people over there get lost in the details about circuit boards, this and that.. and not much talk about making music.

here, its just a handful of people and the posts are kept on point and i actually learn here about these instruments, and i appreciate posts like this.

i need to read the manual on the rev2 to learn about the menu diving aspect. its been super fun to twist knobs in real time whilst making random sounds, and having a knob for each parameter really puts into perspective what thigns mean.

i have a launch day ob6 and it still is menacing to me but i love the sounds from it.

dont get me started on the Jupiter 80!!!
Title: Re: Prophet Rev 2 tutorial
Post by: Paul Dither on July 26, 2017, 07:52:30 AM
Not precisely a tutorial, but an overview I did with a prototype:

https://youtu.be/kqcE1OjWtZE
Title: Re: Prophet Rev 2 tutorial
Post by: kobuz on July 26, 2017, 12:13:59 PM
I just copied the link in order to post it in this thread :).

Thanks a lot Paul, its a very Nice to the point overview with great sound design tips in between!
Title: Re: Prophet Rev 2 tutorial
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on July 26, 2017, 12:59:18 PM
Not precisely a tutorial, but an overview I did with a prototype:

https://youtu.be/kqcE1OjWtZE

This is an excellent overview, Paul.  Very well organized and methodical.
Title: Re: Prophet Rev 2 tutorial
Post by: Paul Dither on July 26, 2017, 04:23:00 PM
Thanks for your encouraging comments! It was an overnight job, so I was a bit hesitant about whether I should upload it at all. Also: Please apologize for the length.

I hope it'll provide some useful insights for fresh owners or musicians who consider getting one.
Title: Re: Prophet Rev 2 tutorial
Post by: Morgenspaziergang on July 26, 2017, 05:01:11 PM
PD,

where are you in the world? whats your accent?

im just 10 minutes in and i am hooked!
Title: Re: Prophet Rev 2 tutorial
Post by: Gerry Havinga on July 27, 2017, 11:20:49 PM
Not precisely a tutorial, but an overview I did with a prototype:

https://youtu.be/kqcE1OjWtZE

Thanks Paul, very clear and concise overview, I really appreciate your efforts.
Title: Re: Prophet Rev 2 tutorial
Post by: Paul Dither on July 30, 2017, 05:01:01 AM
PD,

where are you in the world? whats your accent?

im just 10 minutes in and i am hooked!

Sorry for the late reply, Morgenspaziergang. I was traveling over the past few days. Right now, I'm located in Germany, where I grew up in what used to be the British sector. I also spent 7 years in Nashville, TN, until last year.
Title: Re: Prophet Rev 2 tutorial
Post by: Paul Dither on July 30, 2017, 05:01:37 AM
Not precisely a tutorial, but an overview I did with a prototype:

https://youtu.be/kqcE1OjWtZE

Thanks Paul, very clear and concise overview, I really appreciate your efforts.

Thanks a lot, Gerry! Much appreciated.
Title: Re: Prophet Rev 2 tutorial
Post by: Morgenspaziergang on July 31, 2017, 06:51:14 AM
What i would like to see is someone doing JUST a video on the use of the gated sequencer. I'm reading up on it and i cant wrap it around my brain a sort how to use it.

Title: Re: Prophet Rev 2 tutorial
Post by: Paul Dither on July 31, 2017, 07:50:06 AM
What i would like to see is someone doing JUST a video on the use of the gated sequencer. I'm reading up on it and i cant wrap it around my brain a sort how to use it.

You use it as a modulation source. Each of the four sequencer tracks is like one modulation slot with up to 16 steps. And each sequencer track controls an assigned parameter value per step. Tracks 2 and 4 also allow for controlling the slew amount for tracks 1 and 3, which means that you can use it for making the transitions between the single step values of tracks 1 and 3 smoother. So, for example, if you would assign sequencer track 1 to control the oscillators' frequency, and then assign sequencer track 2 to control the slew amounts for track 1, you could achieve glissandi because the higher the slew amount settings of track 3 would be, the less abrupt the value changes of track 1 would be from step to step.
Title: Re: Prophet Rev 2 tutorial
Post by: Morgenspaziergang on August 01, 2017, 06:27:47 AM
Mr. Paul,

Thank you for taking time to respond. I was not raised in proper music theory ( i play by ear) so I don't understand a lot of things WRT piano playing.

I understand *on paper* what this gated sequencer is designed to do, i just dont understand how that translates into playing.

I dont guess this is a unique feature to DSI, so is there a video of a synth that has this feature on it that i could look for?

No worries if this question is too simple for the folks here, but doesn't hurt to ask it.
Title: Re: Prophet Rev 2 tutorial
Post by: Paul Dither on August 01, 2017, 10:02:22 AM
No worries, there's no too simple question.

The way the gated sequencer works or is modelled after is the way all classic sequencers work in modular systems for example. Not because that's usually the only place you'll find them, but that's where they originated when everything was still controlled by voltages only - in the early Moog modular systems or Buchla systems for example.

The way to think about this type of sequencer is that it's really a type of modulation source that allows for the modification of selected parameters over time or based on a pattern as there are steps involved which can of course be used rhythmically. If you have a 16 step sequencer, it will allow you to control the value of a selected parameter (be it the filter cutoff frequency, the filter resonance, the frequency of an oscillator, and so on) per step. So, for example, you could have the filter fully opened on step one, fully closed on step two, half open on step three, and so on. On the REV2, you can do this type of modulation on four tracks that all run simultaneously, but don't have to have the same length. Sequencer track one could run at the full 16 steps for example, while track 2 runs at 9 steps, track 3 at 5, and track 4 at 12, depending on where you set the reset. The purpose of the flexible step length is too make what the sequencer modulates sound less static and repetitive. In the above mentioned example, the first time the first step of track 1 would be repeated would not equal the first step of the other three tracks anymore. Instead, the individual sequencer track lengths would constantly shift towards each other, which can help making the sequence sound more arbitrary or organic, however you'd like to put it.

With the advent of MIDI and in times of DAWs, sequencers are sometimes confused with what the poly sequencer of the REV2 does. The latter is not a modulation source at all, it only lets you record notes for the playback of a melody or a couple of chords you'd like to play along to. Technically it equals recording notes with your computer via MIDI. What is recorded per step is note on and off data, velocity data, and aftertouch data, but no parameter values for modulation destinations.

And that's the main difference: On the REV2, the poly sequencer is for notes and the MIDI data typically connected to the recording of notes (like the above mentioned velocity values). The gated sequencer lets you instead control everything that's integral to synthesis like timbral changes for example. The only thing both sequencer modes have seemingly in common is that they can both affect the pitch of notes, and I guess that's what's confusing. But both do it in an entirely different way: With the poly sequencer you enter an absolute note value like C2 or E4 for example via the keyboard. With the gated sequencer you assign a track to the frequency of one or two oscillators (a modulation destination) independently from the keyboard and as a relative value, which is why no transpose feature is needed for the gated sequencer mode.

In historical terms, I guess you could also say that the poly sequencer is modelled after a self-playing piano or a so-called player piano, while the gated sequencer is a true sequencer in terms of a synthesizer, as it operates based on relative parameter values (originally: voltage amounts) that control individual parameters per step, amongst which the frequency controls for the oscillators happen to occur as well.
Title: Re: Prophet Rev 2 tutorial
Post by: kobuz on August 02, 2017, 12:12:45 AM
Thanks for this explanation and little piece of history Paul :). I always saw a sequencer in the way of the 'self-playing piano' since it is indeed often like that on modern synths or sequencer like the beatstep pro. With their own play button to play the sequence. Therefore for me it also took some time to understand the gated sequencer, which is very powerful and fun to play with.

I think one piece of extra info is needed to fully understand the gated sequencer is this: it has no start button but plays when you hold a note down on the keyboard. This also means that if you just wan't to play a patch normally (if I understand it correctly) you always need to have the sequencer in poly mode, so it is 'off'. unless you press the pay button of course ;)

So Morgenspaziergang, maybe this can be a little basic example to understand the gated sequencer better:
I'm not at home right now so can't really give specifics, but hey the manual is pretty clear on it ;)
- Set sequencer on Gated
- For track one, set destination on filter cutoff
- For track one, set all 16 steps to different values. Make sure you use the whole range that you can choose from.
- Set the filter cutoff knob in the filter section to completely closed (so turned to the left). This will give you the highest effect in the sequencer, since the values you programmed there will be added to the filter cutoff.
- Press and hold a note, you will hear the sound and on each step of the sequencer you will hear the filter changing.

Hope that will clear things up a little.
Title: Re: Prophet Rev 2 tutorial
Post by: Morgenspaziergang on August 02, 2017, 06:29:15 AM
MR. Paul,

Your explanation was very well received. Thank you for taking time to. Write this out. Much much much appreciated.

I'm no stranger to music production (i know what a sequencer is as I an akai MPC user from the 80s) but am new to analog synths and never heard of a gated sequencer. (I use to have a beat step pro that was sequencing an akai s950, but that swept up was too limited in that the BSP could only use one midi channel at a time).

Kobuz, thanks for your explanation as well. I will do your experiment.

I guess I cant wrap my head around the fact that you dont "start" the gated sequence, you just "play" it, and this is what's confusing.

I just need to get on it and try. It would just be helpful if I could see it in action on a more "real" programmed setup....

At any rate, thank you for the education.
Title: Re: Prophet Rev 2 tutorial
Post by: Murphy on August 03, 2017, 05:46:13 PM
Thank you (all) for the questions and answers about poly versus gated sequencers. It was practical, useful and informative. I tend to dive in and just work with what I know, but I'm glad this forum exists and also glad the more knowledgeable users have some time to help explain concepts and practical tips to people like me. 
Title: Re: Prophet Rev 2 tutorial
Post by: Paratriplel on August 04, 2017, 01:11:15 PM
I really have a much better understanding about the sequencer after reading your explanation. Thanks!
And thanks for asking about it so I didn't have to feel alone in not understanding the gated sequencer. :-)

Will look through the video Paul made and hope I'll learn a couple of things!

Just had time to sit and dig into synth programming today and wow what a wonderful feeling when I turned the envelope amount negative and really begin feeling that pieces started falling into place :-). 
Title: Re: Prophet Rev 2 tutorial
Post by: Gerry Havinga on August 28, 2017, 10:29:07 PM
Finally been able to spent some "quality time" with the Rev2. Sooooo nice, what a wonderful instrument, thanks Dave and DSI team.

Yesterday I introduced my stepson to Rev2 based sound design and his main comment was: "It is so much easier than I thought". He does have quite a bit of experience with plugins, but he realised getting his hands on the controls of the Rev2 is very different.

I have created a basic Rev2 based patch sheet, just a form to fill in most of the parameters. I use this to help me understand a new instrument and discover some of the intricacies of the instrument. If anyone is interested I can post a link here to the PDF.
Title: Re: Prophet Rev 2 tutorial
Post by: gernotreininger on August 29, 2017, 12:30:47 AM
Hi Gerry. It would be great to get the PDF. I am new to Synthesis and if it helps to understand them I really would appreciate.
BTW it's great to turn knobs instead of pointing with the mouse on the screen.
Title: Re: Prophet Rev 2 tutorial
Post by: Gerry Havinga on August 29, 2017, 12:45:42 AM
Hi Gerry. It would be great to get the PDF. I am new to Synthesis and if it helps to understand them I really would appreciate.
BTW it's great to turn knobs instead of pointing with the mouse on the screen.
I am in the process of setting up a site to (kind of) promote the music I write, but there isn't much to see (or hear) yet. I did create a tutorials section holding page where you can find the PDFs (there is also a worked out sheet and a version for the Blofeld), see: https://gezz.eu/tutorials/ (https://gezz.eu/tutorials/)

Constructive feedback is much appreciated of course.

For the mods: please let me know if posting links is an issue, I don't intend to offend or violate any rules.
Title: Re: Prophet Rev 2 tutorial
Post by: gernotreininger on August 29, 2017, 04:32:22 AM
Thank you Gerry!
Title: Re: Prophet Rev 2 tutorial
Post by: Murphy on August 29, 2017, 12:31:19 PM
Incredibly useful template Gerry! Thank you for sharing this.
Title: Re: Prophet Rev 2 tutorial
Post by: Gerry Havinga on September 02, 2017, 04:35:35 AM
I've update the Rev2 parameter/patch sheet template. All parameters for one layer are on the same page now, fixed a few inconsistencies and I added a step sequencer section, now I start to understand how to use it (great fun). Thanks to philroyjenkins for giving me feedback  :). New template is here (same place):  https://gezz.eu/tutorials/DSI_Prophet_Rev2_Parameters_Template.pdf (https://gezz.eu/tutorials/DSI_Prophet_Rev2_Parameters_Template.pdf)
Title: Re: Prophet Rev 2 tutorial
Post by: Jeroen van Bergen on May 27, 2018, 01:42:02 AM
Another Rev2 newbie here. After being without a synth for some years, the itch was too strong and I got myself a Rev2. My reasons for choosing this synth over some of the other very good synths out there, not in any particular order:

- polyphonic, I want to be able to really play the instrument
- lots of ways to fiddle around with the sounds it produces
- the way it sounds. It has a lot of 'presence' and can sound aggresive, something I happen to like.
- memories of fiddling around with a Prophet 600 in a music store at a time when I could not afford such a thing

My feeling so far: amazed at the possibilities, the way small adjustments can make big differences, the overall sound quality and the great feeling of the keybed. Of course some minor things that I do not like or could be better: when switching between patches it sometime just plays, probably because the VCA envelope is still releasing. The display could have been bigger.

Right now I am still in my discovery phase, which I expect will take a lot of time, given the amount of possibilities the Rev2 offers. I will probably ask some questions here along the way. A basic tutorial for the Rev2 would be great, it's one of the things I have been looking for but did not find so far.
Title: Re: Prophet Rev 2 tutorial
Post by: jg666 on May 27, 2018, 02:45:32 AM
Another Rev2 newbie here. After being without a synth for some years, the itch was too strong and I got myself a Rev2. My reasons for choosing this synth over some of the other very good synths out there, not in any particular order:

- polyphonic, I want to be able to really play the instrument
- lots of ways to fiddle around with the sounds it produces
- the way it sounds. It has a lot of 'presence' and can sound aggresive, something I happen to like.
- memories of fiddling around with a Prophet 600 in a music store at a time when I could not afford such a thing

My feeling so far: amazed at the possibilities, the way small adjustments can make big differences, the overall sound quality and the great feeling of the keybed. Of course some minor things that I do not like or could be better: when switching between patches it sometime just plays, probably because the VCA envelope is still releasing. The display could have been bigger.

Right now I am still in my discovery phase, which I expect will take a lot of time, given the amount of possibilities the Rev2 offers. I will probably ask some questions here along the way. A basic tutorial for the Rev2 would be great, it's one of the things I have been looking for but did not find so far.

Have you checked out the overview that ‘Paul Dither’ has done on YouTube?
Title: Re: Prophet Rev 2 tutorial
Post by: Gerry Havinga on May 27, 2018, 03:12:41 AM
Another Rev2 newbie here. After being without a synth for some years, the itch was too strong and I got myself a Rev2. My reasons for choosing this synth over some of the other very good synths out there, not in any particular order:

- polyphonic, I want to be able to really play the instrument
- lots of ways to fiddle around with the sounds it produces
- the way it sounds. It has a lot of 'presence' and can sound aggresive, something I happen to like.
- memories of fiddling around with a Prophet 600 in a music store at a time when I could not afford such a thing

My feeling so far: amazed at the possibilities, the way small adjustments can make big differences, the overall sound quality and the great feeling of the keybed. Of course some minor things that I do not like or could be better: when switching between patches it sometime just plays, probably because the VCA envelope is still releasing. The display could have been bigger.

Right now I am still in my discovery phase, which I expect will take a lot of time, given the amount of possibilities the Rev2 offers. I will probably ask some questions here along the way. A basic tutorial for the Rev2 would be great, it's one of the things I have been looking for but did not find so far.
Welcome Jeroen (welkom). Making a text based tutorial is on my list of things to do. I do have some tips and tricks already in a Tiddlywiki page for my own use. Which I could mail you if you want to see it.

In due course I want to publish the Tiddlywiki page on my site. For the time being all I have there are the parameter sheets (see my previous posts).
Title: Re: Prophet Rev 2 tutorial
Post by: jg666 on May 27, 2018, 03:41:08 AM
Another Rev2 newbie here. After being without a synth for some years, the itch was too strong and I got myself a Rev2. My reasons for choosing this synth over some of the other very good synths out there, not in any particular order:

- polyphonic, I want to be able to really play the instrument
- lots of ways to fiddle around with the sounds it produces
- the way it sounds. It has a lot of 'presence' and can sound aggresive, something I happen to like.
- memories of fiddling around with a Prophet 600 in a music store at a time when I could not afford such a thing

My feeling so far: amazed at the possibilities, the way small adjustments can make big differences, the overall sound quality and the great feeling of the keybed. Of course some minor things that I do not like or could be better: when switching between patches it sometime just plays, probably because the VCA envelope is still releasing. The display could have been bigger.

Right now I am still in my discovery phase, which I expect will take a lot of time, given the amount of possibilities the Rev2 offers. I will probably ask some questions here along the way. A basic tutorial for the Rev2 would be great, it's one of the things I have been looking for but did not find so far.
Welcome Jeroen (welkom). Making a text based tutorial is on my list of things to do. I do have some tips and tricks already in a Tiddlywiki page for my own use. Which I could mail you if you want to see it.

In due course I want to publish the Tiddlywiki page on my site. For the time being all I have there are the parameter sheets (see my previous posts).

I’d look forward to seeing your tutorial should you get the time to do it :)
Title: Re: Prophet Rev 2 tutorial
Post by: Jeroen van Bergen on May 29, 2018, 12:18:44 PM
Thanks for the suggestions. I've watched the Rev2 overview by Paul. Very thorough, picked some things up that I did not immediately understand when I read the manual. Thanks Paul for the effort of creating the overview and thanks to jg666 for pointing me in the right direction.

Right now I am at a stage where I have some vague idea of the kind of sound I would like to create and then fiddle around to approach my idea. Sometimes I just take a preset and start editing it to get something that is more useful to me. For instance I took the VeloStrings (F2P1) preset and edited it to a version that would not react as strongly to velocity. Took me a while (after checking all of the modulation slots, fiddling around with the velocity parameters of the filter and VCA and still not getting what I wanted) to realise the Rev2 has two layers and I was editing just one of them...

I am wondering how other people on this forum go about creating what they want. Start with a basic program? First find a suitable preset as a starting point?



Title: Re: Prophet Rev 2 tutorial
Post by: Gerry Havinga on May 29, 2018, 10:55:28 PM
Thanks for the suggestions. I've watched the Rev2 overview by Paul. Very thorough, picked some things up that I did not immediately understand when I read the manual. Thanks Paul for the effort of creating the overview and thanks to jg666 for pointing me in the right direction.

Right now I am at a stage where I have some vague idea of the kind of sound I would like to create and then fiddle around to approach my idea. Sometimes I just take a preset and start editing it to get something that is more useful to me. For instance I took the VeloStrings (F2P1) preset and edited it to a version that would not react as strongly to velocity. Took me a while (after checking all of the modulation slots, fiddling around with the velocity parameters of the filter and VCA and still not getting what I wanted) to realise the Rev2 has two layers and I was editing just one of them...

I am wondering how other people on this forum go about creating what they want. Start with a basic program? First find a suitable preset as a starting point?
Hi Jeroen, did you check this thread: https://forum.davesmithinstruments.com/index.php/topic,2455.0.html (https://forum.davesmithinstruments.com/index.php/topic,2455.0.html) (it's pinned to the top of the Rev2 forum)?

I suggest you download the PDF, it is indexed by patch name, so you can quickly find all the parameter values for any factory patch. It is also a great learning tool.

Do you have any suggestions regarding what you'd like to see in the tutorial?
Title: Re: Prophet Rev 2 tutorial
Post by: guyaguy on May 30, 2018, 11:50:31 AM
Thanks for the suggestions. I've watched the Rev2 overview by Paul. Very thorough, picked some things up that I did not immediately understand when I read the manual. Thanks Paul for the effort of creating the overview and thanks to jg666 for pointing me in the right direction.

Right now I am at a stage where I have some vague idea of the kind of sound I would like to create and then fiddle around to approach my idea. Sometimes I just take a preset and start editing it to get something that is more useful to me. For instance I took the VeloStrings (F2P1) preset and edited it to a version that would not react as strongly to velocity. Took me a while (after checking all of the modulation slots, fiddling around with the velocity parameters of the filter and VCA and still not getting what I wanted) to realise the Rev2 has two layers and I was editing just one of them...

I am wondering how other people on this forum go about creating what they want. Start with a basic program? First find a suitable preset as a starting point?

I start with an Init patch, but I've been using DSI synths for a while and they have similar routing and features. The book above might help or you could also use one of the software editors which will show you the saved preset parameters for the presets as well as your patches. A VST editor is also handy for automation like automated filter sweeps, volume swells, etc.
Title: Re: Prophet Rev 2 tutorial
Post by: Jeroen van Bergen on May 30, 2018, 12:48:34 PM

Hi Jeroen, did you check this thread: https://forum.davesmithinstruments.com/index.php/topic,2455.0.html (https://forum.davesmithinstruments.com/index.php/topic,2455.0.html) (it's pinned to the top of the Rev2 forum)?

I suggest you download the PDF, it is indexed by patch name, so you can quickly find all the parameter values for any factory patch. It is also a great learning tool.

Do you have any suggestions regarding what you'd like to see in the tutorial?
Hi Gerry, downloading the book while I am typing this. The Rev2 overview of Paul was quite detailed and touched upon everything that can be tweaked and changed. The next step for me is how to put all of that to work. I think his can be approached in at least two different ways.

1 If you want to get X do Y. Some of this could be very general subtractive synthesis stuff, but described specifically for the Rev2 (or maybe the '08, given the similarities).
2 You can use feature X to get Y (or Z given different settings for X)

The problem with this kind of approach is the set of permutations, it is just too big to describe every possible patch in detail. By focusing on the main components of a sound and how to achieve that on the Rev2 the reader will at least be pointed in the right direction.

It also helps to really know your audience: a real beginner, a seasoned sound designer, someone looking for a specific how-to?

Thanks for all the kind advice so far!