The Official Sequential/DSI Forum

SEQUENTIAL/DSI => Prophet => Prophet Rev2 => Topic started by: jburzy01 on June 22, 2017, 06:29:11 PM

Title: Oscillator Issues
Post by: jburzy01 on June 22, 2017, 06:29:11 PM
I'm having some very strange issues with the oscillators on my Rev2. This is only noticeable on triangle and pulse settings. If I initialize a new patch and set the OSC1 to triangle, it sounds like a triangle for the first 4 notes that I play, then the NEXT 4 notes sound like not a pure triangle, like a tiny bit of saw buzz coming in. Then the next 4 notes are triangle again and so on. Same issue noticeable in pulse mode. Calibration did not fix this (also troubling is that the first time I tried calibrating it froze after the first voice finished and I had to reboot...) Can anyone replicate this issue on their unit? Think this is a hardware issue? Between this and the jumpy pots I'm beginning to get very frustrated and am considering returning my unit.
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Fuseball on June 23, 2017, 12:42:48 AM
On my Prophet'08 I get a tiny bit of bleed from oscillator 2 even when the mix knob is set to 0.  It's not 100% consistent between voices.  It is most noticeable on triangle and pulse settings.  In everyday use I've honestly never noticed it.

Does your problem go away if you set oscillator 2 shape to Off?

To some degree this is a characteristic of an all-analog signal path. Personally, I like the slight subtle variances between voices.  It is, for me, a significant part of the reason I like analog synths.
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: jburzy01 on June 23, 2017, 05:43:58 AM
Yes, the issue is noticeable even when OSC2 is off. I guess that it is a problem with voices 5-8 which explains the cycling every 4 notes. It is not noticeable in an realistic patch that I would be using but I don't want to have to settle for a malfunctioning unit. If no one else has this issue I will simply return this one and get another one. Unless of course this is something that a software update could deal with.
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Tannery Row Recording on August 31, 2017, 06:31:08 AM
I just got my Rev2 16-voice and am having the same issue. I started programming a basic patch and the very first thing I did was change OSC1's waveshape from sawtooth to triangle. The first 8 notes I played were triangle and the next 8, still sawtooth. I tried re-calibrating the oscillators and filters and it seemed to fix the problem, only for it to happen again some time later when I loaded a previously saved patch into the Rev2 via USB/Sys-Ex from the Soundtower app (the patch, FWIW, also used a triangle wave). Half the voices remained basic sawtooth (and this was all in layer A only - I was not in stack or split mode). I re-loaded the same patch and the problem went away. So there's some kind of intermittent bug. I had a hunch it might be specific to the 16 voice version but now I know someone with the 8-voice is experiencing the same problem. Hopefully DSI will fix this shortly...
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: gernotreininger on August 31, 2017, 07:05:50 AM
Same issue here if it's an issue
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Morgenspaziergang on August 31, 2017, 08:04:13 AM
Serial numbers? Early models or later?
Title: Oscillator issues and bugs, or do I have a faulty synth?
Post by: jazzygb1 on August 31, 2017, 06:26:38 PM
I've discovered a few issues on my Rev2 and wondered if it was just me, or if others encountered these problems.
I'm on the latest firmware v1.0.7.2.

Issue: 1. If I select a basic program and then select the Pulse wave as on an oscillator, it doesn't sound like a Pulse at all.
It sounds really nasal, almost like a pulse would sound if shape Mod was applied.
To get the Pulse to sound like a Pulse, I have to turn the shape mod to 50% - surely this shouldn't be a requirement from a basic patch, you shouldn't have to shape mod it to sound like it should sound to begin with.
This I feel is just a wrong default in the OS that could be fixed with an update, but my other issues are a little more disconcerting.

Issue 2: I have a similar issue (but not the same as) the issues described in this post...
http://forum.davesmithinstruments.com/index.php/topic,1573.0.html

Basically if I select a triangle wave for my oscillator random notes in the bottom octave of the keyboard will intermittently play a sawtooth instead.

Issue 3: This is the big one...If I create a Basic Program and select the Pulse wave on an oscillator, Notes played at the lower octaves of the synth are intermittently dropped and don't sound at all!!!!
Obviously that's not good! :(

I have tried recalibrating the oscillators and filters using selection 26 in the globals menu, but to no avail - the issues still occur.

A short video showing the issues can be viewed below...
https://youtu.be/1dZM2hYa2qI (https://youtu.be/1dZM2hYa2qI)
Title: Re: Oscillator issues and bugs, or do I have a faulty synth?
Post by: musicmaker on August 31, 2017, 11:09:20 PM
Very ugly, unacceptable. OB6 USB disconnect and voice issues, REV2 pots issue, and now all this.
Really worried to spend thousands of dollars these products and DSI quality control and testing process.
For the premium prices the products should be rock solid. Additionally, if there is a problem DSI should
just confirm if its a bug, reproduce-able, publish the root cause and corrective action. Publishing a knowledge base/FAQ
of issues on the web (with affected serial#) would also help. There ain't much on the support web.
Personally,  I don't have much confidence in American factories and many are sub-par to China factories (have seen many).  Guess you should contact DSI on their support web.
Title: Re: Oscillator issues and bugs, or do I have a faulty synth?
Post by: Paul Dither on September 01, 2017, 03:21:18 AM
I can't comment on issues 2 and 3, but issue 1 is definitely not a bug. By default shape mod is set to zero if you initiate the Basic Program. Shape mod set to zero means default Sawtooth, Sawtooth + Triangle, and Triangle waveshapes for the selected oscillator. Shape mod set to zero in case of the pulse wave means narrowest possible pulse width. If you want a square wave, you have to set the shape mod to 50%, which is the common amount for getting a pulse wave on all synths that provide PWM.

I can see how this can be confusing if you expect the square wave to be the default pulse waveshape. I guess the only other way to go about it would have been to put all the default waveshapes for Sawtooth, Sawtooth + Triangle, and Triangle, among the square wave in the centrered position, i.e. where shape mod is set to 50%.

Both design options can make sense and it all depends on whether you define the square wave as the default pulse waveshape or not. But as the front panel clearly says "Pulse" and not "Square," the current design choice is not inconsistent, as you get to hear a pulse wave at its thinnest width when you select the according waveshape in the Basic Program.
Title: Re: Oscillator issues and bugs, or do I have a faulty synth?
Post by: MDMA on September 01, 2017, 03:22:46 AM
I think you're slightly harsh in your judgment of DSI.
The issue with this particular board is obviously one of the voice chips, it would appear that the OP has the 16 voice version as it drops or alters on the 16th note.

DSI are probably the most proactive and approachable bunch of people out there, not all launches are plain sailing and there have been a few issues along the way, but, DSI technical are fantastic and an email to them will soon get you up and running.

I would of thought the quick fix for now would be to remove the faulty 8 voice card and use your synth as an eight voice until DSI send you a replacement.  Just a thought!
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Tannery Row Recording on September 01, 2017, 08:18:22 AM
Serial numbers? Early models or later?

My Rev2 16 Voice's serial #: 2816-00333

FWIW.
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Eltronn on September 01, 2017, 09:39:52 AM
This video also explains a problem a friend of mine has for the same thing https://youtu.be/1dZM2hYa2qI
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Sleep of Reason on September 01, 2017, 10:13:56 AM
Same issue here on my 16 voice unit.
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Robot Heart on September 01, 2017, 10:50:14 AM
For anyone having issues with any DSI gear, please email our dedicated support channel: support (at) davesmithinstruments.com

It's the fastest way to get an official answer and get support. We apologize for any inconvenience, and I assure you there is a solution for whatever might be coming up for any individual.
Title: Re: Oscillator issues and bugs, or do I have a faulty synth?
Post by: jazzygb1 on September 01, 2017, 12:06:27 PM
I can't comment on issues 2 and 3, but issue 1 is definitely not a bug. By default shape mod is set to zero if you initiate the Basic Program. Shape mod set to zero means default Sawtooth, Sawtooth + Triangle, and Triangle waveshapes for the selected oscillator. Shape mod set to zero in case of the pulse wave means narrowest possible pulse width. If you want a square wave, you have to set the shape mod to 50%, which is the common amount for getting a pulse wave on all synths that provide PWM.

I can see how this can be confusing if you expect the square wave to be the default pulse waveshape. I guess the only other way to go about it would have been to put all the default waveshapes for Sawtooth, Sawtooth + Triangle, and Triangle, among the square wave in the centrered position, i.e. where shape mod is set to 50%.

Both design options can make sense and it all depends on whether you define the square wave as the default pulse waveshape or not. But as the front panel clearly says "Pulse" and not "Square," the current design choice is not inconsistent, as you get to hear a pulse wave at its thinnest width when you select the according waveshape in the Basic Program.

I see what you are saying, but I disagree.

I own a Prophet 12 too and the default Basic Program wave shape for a pulse is as you'd expect it to be - square.

Either the Prophet 12's default is wrong or the Rev2's is.

For me it's the Rev2.

DSI I'm sure will put this right in a future update (fingers crossed). :)
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: jazzygb1 on September 01, 2017, 12:07:30 PM
For anyone having issues with any DSI gear, please email our dedicated support channel: support (at) davesmithinstruments.com

It's the fastest way to get an official answer and get support. We apologize for any inconvenience, and I assure you there is a solution for whatever might be coming up for any individual.

Thanks for that, an email has been sent to support as suggested.

Thanks for your help. :)
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Alphacode909 on September 01, 2017, 12:16:14 PM
Can confirm i don't have that issue on my 8 voice version. Serial 2808-006xx .

However after only 1 day of playing the middle C key started to squeak to a point i had to open it up, remove the key ,lubricate it in some areas. On the box it says made in San Francisco not Hong Kong .... hmm.
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Robot Heart on September 01, 2017, 12:25:42 PM
That's right, made in San Francisco. Please keep the conversation relevant, on topic, and constructive. Thanks!
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Alphacode909 on September 01, 2017, 12:45:58 PM
Thank you , i believe it is , we are discussing issues we users have , i pointed to an different issue i have, should i open a new thered regarding squeaky keys ? That would be irrelevant wouldn't you agree ?

By 'Made in San Francisco' and selling instruments with price tags of 1.5k-3k it's only normal to expect top quality and not have to fix squeaky keys !?.

More over my Pro2 after a day of not playing it , have sticky keys giving me some resistance until i press them all , only then it becomes playable.

You can understand some frustration i hope ...

Title: Re: Oscillator issues and bugs, or do I have a faulty synth?
Post by: extempo on September 01, 2017, 12:58:10 PM
I can't comment on issues 2 and 3, but issue 1 is definitely not a bug. By default shape mod is set to zero if you initiate the Basic Program. Shape mod set to zero means default Sawtooth, Sawtooth + Triangle, and Triangle waveshapes for the selected oscillator. Shape mod set to zero in case of the pulse wave means narrowest possible pulse width. If you want a square wave, you have to set the shape mod to 50%, which is the common amount for getting a pulse wave on all synths that provide PWM.

I can see how this can be confusing if you expect the square wave to be the default pulse waveshape. I guess the only other way to go about it would have been to put all the default waveshapes for Sawtooth, Sawtooth + Triangle, and Triangle, among the square wave in the centrered position, i.e. where shape mod is set to 50%.

Both design options can make sense and it all depends on whether you define the square wave as the default pulse waveshape or not. But as the front panel clearly says "Pulse" and not "Square," the current design choice is not inconsistent, as you get to hear a pulse wave at its thinnest width when you select the according waveshape in the Basic Program.

Paul Dither is correct here in his description/assessment of our implementation. The Prophet Rev2 is the first of our Curtis-based instruments for which you can do waveform modulation beyond the pulse width of the square wave. Because of how we have to generate the control voltages for the Curtis chip to allow for shape mod on all waveforms, it's not possible to have 50% Shape Mod equal zero modulation for the Saw, Saw-Tri and Tri and also have it give you a 50% duty cycle for the Pulse. This is a hardware matter, not a software matter.


I see what you are saying, but I disagree.

I own a Prophet 12 too and the default Basic Program wave shape for a pulse is as you'd expect it to be - square.

Either the Prophet 12's default is wrong or the Rev2's is.

For me it's the Rev2.

DSI I'm sure will put this right in a future update (fingers crossed). :)

With the Prophet 12 we were able to have 50% Shape Mod equal zero modulation for all waveforms thanks to the flexibility of the digital portion of its architecture. As stated above though, this isn't the case with the Prophet Rev2's hardware.
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Robot Heart on September 01, 2017, 05:06:24 PM
Hi Alphacode909-

While I can certainly relate to feeling frustrated as a customer, you also have a representative from the company asking you to contact their dedicated support channel to resolve any issues you may have.

Regarding anything you buy for $xxx should be perfect, I agree you can expect a professionally manufactured item to be made properly. However, mechanical and electronic items sometimes need repair and/or maintenance. Just as a BMW, Mercedes, Honda, or Ferrari require maintenance regardless of the price tag, our synths along with most any other piece of equipment you can buy are no different. Tolerances in manufacturing, wear and tear, component failure, and accidents are all bound to happen. 

Fortunately, we stand behind our products and do what it takes to make it right if something is amiss, including having the best out of warranty repair policy of any musical instrument manufacturer. I do apologize for your experience, and I encourage you to contact support if you haven't already.

We do not take issue with discussions of mechanical or electronic failures, but regardless of what the topic is, we ask that all users remain courteous and constructive when they post so it can truly be a discussion instead of purely complaint.

The title of this thread is "Oscillator Issues". If you're not talking about that, specifically on the Rev2, then your post is not on topic. Please use the search function, many of the topics you bring up have already been discussed in the appropriate threads and/or forums. If they have not, feel free to create a new topic if you'd like to discuss it.
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: jazzygb1 on September 02, 2017, 04:13:44 AM
I've raised it with DSI support and already had a response, which is a good start! :)

For those who asked about model and serial numbers, mine is a 16 voice and the serial is 2816-00696.

Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Tannery Row Recording on September 02, 2017, 11:02:10 AM
I've raised it with DSI support and already had a response, which is a good start! :)



As have I. My response was very quick and I had a good exchange with DSI tech support. They seem to be doing their job. It's an intermittent problem so I expect it may take some time to resolve. I'm feeling good about them as a company.
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Alphacode909 on September 03, 2017, 08:21:30 AM
Considering that i posted my serial and i have an 8 voice , this issue seems to be happening to 16voices only so possibly the expansion card issue ?
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Sleep of Reason on September 03, 2017, 09:58:53 AM
Considering that i posted my serial and i have an 8 voice , this issue seems to be happening to 16voices only so possibly the expansion card issue ?

No, mine is happening with the first four voices.
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Sinamsis on September 04, 2017, 06:28:45 PM
I joined the forum to comment on this topic.  I've had the Rev 2 for a couple months now.  I haven't had much time with it due to a newborn at home.  But when I did sit down to program it I immediately noticed something to similar to what is described here.  4 of 16 oscillators have weird things going on with the triangle (specifically VCO1 on my testing).   It sounds like some degree of wave folding, or hard clipping is going; I'm not exactly sure.  I contacted DSI, I sent them some recordings, etc.  I dismantled the synth a couple times haha.  I took out the expansion card, and I was still getting it.  Eventually I was shipped a new voice board but it didn't fix anything.  I spent so much time trying to troubleshoot it, that I eventually gave up.  Ha, I assume when it's sorted DSI will take care of me (I hope at least) but I felt like I was spending limited studio time trouble shooting instead of actually making music.  Mainly commenting to subscribe and see if anyone comes up with a cause and or solution.
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Morgenspaziergang on September 05, 2017, 05:57:52 AM
Can you list up your serial number range and if you are in the US or abroad? Where did you purchase?
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Alphacode909 on September 05, 2017, 11:58:48 AM
No, mine is happening with the first four voices.
[/quote]

Not necessarily when you have 2 cards in it's possible that the first voices are taken from the expansion card. It's seem strange that i am the only one with an 8 voice and have no issues.

Maybe someone could try to take out the Expansion card and see if still happening then ?
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: jazzygb1 on September 05, 2017, 12:42:27 PM
It's seem strange that i am the only one with an 8 voice and have no issues.

Maybe someone could try to take out the Expansion card and see if still happening then ?

Sinamis has already tried this.

He said...

I joined the forum to comment on this topic.  I've had the Rev 2 for a couple months now.
I dismantled the synth, I took out the expansion card and I was still getting it. 
Eventually I was shipped a new voice board but it didn't fix anything. 

I'm glad you're not experiencing any issues.
It appears the amount of problems with 16 voice models is more indicative of more people owning 16 voice models than 8 voice, rather than it pointing to the expansion board as the culprit as Sinamis post shows that removing and replacing the board has not remedied the situation.
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Propheteer on September 05, 2017, 12:43:37 PM
I have been happily enjoying my REV2 for a while, and never really noticed this issue even though I program a lot from an init patch. Sure enough I just tested it tonight and I have this issue also (on an 8 voice!).

on triangle I have a bit of SAW on ONE of the voices but it seems to only occur over an octave from around middle C up. On pulse I have a different issue which is some of the voices are quieter than others - first 4 note strikes = even, then 3 quiet then 1 normal again.

I did try calibration, nothing changed.

I also have the 'no sound' when playing up the keybed like in the video if pulse shape is set to max, but retriggering the same key doesn't give a sound which seems weird (so not just the phase of the pulse and it's not modulated). For me to get all keys/voices to sound I have to back off the shape mod a little (from fully clockwise) which suggests that in my case ONE voice when on max shape mod is going into full PW cancellation while the others aren't, so each voice is slightly off. Knowing this and backing off shape mod a bit isn't really too big a deal, afterall voices cancel out on some PWM synths when you put them to max (when the waveform collapses), the issue is that not all of them are doing it here and calibrating doesn't make them follow the same settings. In normal use I'd rarely be on full shape mod on triangle or pulse waves though it could hit it via modulation.

Same on triangle, the 'bit of saw' seems related to shape mod. the same voice/note that acts up in pulse is also the one acting up on triangle (when shape mod is at minimum). So in triangle/basic program init (shape mode zero) any out of calibration voices will have a bit of 'saw', and with pulse that same voice when shape mod is at max will have a collapsed wave (no sound). Not sure if this will help anyone or DSI to pinpoint if something can be done in software but it seems it's a calibration issue outside of the power of the built in calibration menu (so a FW fix may update the calibration routine to correct for this shape mod issue on random voices?)

Gotta say these issues do seem a bit off for a brand new synth, the funny thing is I've been making some great patches that these issues are not part of at all because they seem to be extreme cases of specific uses of waveforms/shape. Though I can see the triangle or fully shaped pulse being an issue if you want pure triangles across all notes (as you should).

Furthermore if this becomes a legendary fault like the Sub37 filter pot issue, it could affect resale value down the line "hey does yours play ok on triangle/pulse on all notes?". If this is an issue I'd like DSI to tell us upfront so we can return to the retailer (those of us who still have the chance)

So, yeah an 8 voice here with issues, that didn't affect me in normal use but do bug me now I know they are there because they feel like faults and could rear their head later on in life under certain sounds.
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Propheteer on September 05, 2017, 01:36:43 PM
Can confirm i don't have that issue on my 8 voice version. Serial 2808-006xx .

I have the issue on one voice (as above) and I'm in the 600 serial range (first part is just 8 or 16 voice model code it seems), I'm also on 8 voice - 2808-006xx

On a pure triangle patch I just tried, soft single osc sound, it clearly can be an issue when that one voice pipes up! so needs fixing. The fact you don't have the issue means it is a mis-calibration on some units or bad shape mod pots calibration or something else. DSI need to answer on this if they can fix this in software or I may have to return it within my time limit. :( sadly because I love the synth but probably wouldn't get a replacement if this is the case and no word from DSI on fixing or why it does this.
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Sinamsis on September 05, 2017, 03:36:14 PM
Can you list up your serial number range and if you are in the US or abroad? Where did you purchase?

I'm in the US and I purchased from Detroit Modular.  I received one of the first units they had.  2816-001** is the SN.  So that must make it one of the first 100s I guess?
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: jazzygb1 on September 05, 2017, 05:27:24 PM
I'm being assisted by DSI to try and work out the problem, but I'm tempted to return for a refund whilst I still have the time to.

Really conflicted as in every other way I really, really like this synth.

After further investigation, here’s what I now know for certain…

1: This problem only occurs on oscillator 1, oscillator 2 seems to behave as expected.

2: it only happens on keys to the left of Middle C.

3: With the triangle shape selected the further down the keyboard you move, the more pronounced and dominant the erroneous sound is.

4: On a pulse wave shape Mod to 50% to be square, the problem is exacerbated to the point that certain notes don’t sound at all.

5: The pulse wave notes that don’t sound seem to be D3, D♭, B♭, G2, and D1.

6: And this is the big one…It seems to happen on every 16th note. By that I mean that if I repeatedly play any of the affected notes, the symptom will show itself on the 16th press of the key.

I’ve uploaded another video which more clearly shows the issues which can be viewed by clicking the link below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZaYN5lVmP4&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZaYN5lVmP4&feature=youtu.be)

PS: This happens on the effected keys whenever I have played 16 notes, so I do not have to play the same note repeatedly to produce the fault. I could for example play a 15 note solo on the upper part of the synth and if the 16th note I press is one of the lower effected keys it wouldn't sound/sound incorrectly.
So this issue has 'real world' implications and genuinely affects the playability, this isn't as issue that only occurs when the same note is played 16 consecutive times and if it was then it wouldn't be a problem.
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Sleep of Reason on September 05, 2017, 07:01:35 PM
Not necessarily when you have 2 cards in it's possible that the first voices are taken from the expansion card.

Well I suppose you could assume that I hadn't checked under the hood.  ;)
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Propheteer on September 05, 2017, 10:09:49 PM
I'm being assisted by DSI to try and work out the problem, but I'm tempted to return for a refund whilst I still have the time to.

Really conflicted as in every other way I really, really like this synth.

After further investigation, here’s what I now know for certain…

1: This problem only occurs on oscillator 1, oscillator 2 seems to behave as expected.

2: it only happens on keys to the left of Middle C.

3: With the triangle shape selected the further down the keyboard you move, the more pronounced and dominant the erroneous sound is.

4: On a pulse wave shape Mod to 50% to be square, the problem is exacerbated to the point that certain notes don’t sound at all.

5: The pulse wave notes that don’t sound seem to be D3, D♭, B♭, G2, and D1.

6: And this is the big one…It seems to happen on every 16th note. By that I mean that if I repeatedly play any of the affected notes, the symptom will show itself on the 16th press of the key.

I’ve uploaded another video which more clearly shows the issues which can be viewed by clicking the link below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZaYN5lVmP4&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZaYN5lVmP4&feature=youtu.be)

PS: This happens on the effected keys whenever I have played 16 notes, so I do not have to play the same note repeatedly to produce the fault. I could for example play a 15 note solo on the upper part of the synth and if the 16th note I press is one of the lower effected keys it wouldn't sound/sound incorrectly.
So this issue has 'real world' implications and genuinely affects the playability, this isn't as issue that only occurs when the same note is played 16 consecutive times and if it was then it wouldn't be a problem.

Let us know what they say (i.e if it's definitely a defect) as many of us with this issue are also within the return window and obviously it would be easier to return than have to mess around with new boards being sent out (mainboards/voiceboards) from the US (to the UK here) trying to troubleshoot this. Like you I really like the synth so it's a shame if so. I don't seem to have it as bad as you so can't work out why different units have different issues (even as analog synths) as these boards should all be pretty much within the same tolerance and gremlin level unless there's some real electronic faults on some of them (SMT caps blown etc).

DSI should come in and put our minds to rest if they can on if they know of this issue and if it affects all REV2s or just some unlucky ones.
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Propheteer on September 05, 2017, 11:57:43 PM
Actually testing it again this morning, mine definitely doesn't seem as bad as yours even while having issues. For example my pulse wave not playing on certain notes is only if I have shape mod far right not at 50% - at 50% all notes play and all voices play (retriggering a key 8 times). I can live with the wave collapsing on just one note at the extreme as I'd probably never use that (esp on its own where you can hear it), the other little faults (volume differences on pulse/tri on osc 1 only 4 voice) are not too in your face and probably add a bit to the liveliness.. 'real analog' feel ;). And that one remaining issue - the ONE voice on triangle osc 1 only that has a bit of square in it is the only real issue that could rear its head for me, if I was using a pure triangle patch it renders it useless so would definitely like to see a fix for that.

Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Gerry Havinga on September 06, 2017, 12:37:01 AM
I'm being assisted by DSI to try and work out the problem, but I'm tempted to return for a refund whilst I still have the time to.

Really conflicted as in every other way I really, really like this synth.

After further investigation, here’s what I now know for certain…

1: This problem only occurs on oscillator 1, oscillator 2 seems to behave as expected.

2: it only happens on keys to the left of Middle C.

3: With the triangle shape selected the further down the keyboard you move, the more pronounced and dominant the erroneous sound is.

4: On a pulse wave shape Mod to 50% to be square, the problem is exacerbated to the point that certain notes don’t sound at all.

5: The pulse wave notes that don’t sound seem to be D3, D♭, B♭, G2, and D1.

6: And this is the big one…It seems to happen on every 16th note. By that I mean that if I repeatedly play any of the affected notes, the symptom will show itself on the 16th press of the key.

I’ve uploaded another video which more clearly shows the issues which can be viewed by clicking the link below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZaYN5lVmP4&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZaYN5lVmP4&feature=youtu.be)

PS: This happens on the effected keys whenever I have played 16 notes, so I do not have to play the same note repeatedly to produce the fault. I could for example play a 15 note solo on the upper part of the synth and if the 16th note I press is one of the lower effected keys it wouldn't sound/sound incorrectly.
So this issue has 'real world' implications and genuinely affects the playability, this isn't as issue that only occurs when the same note is played 16 consecutive times and if it was then it wouldn't be a problem.
Excellent description of the problem, great troubleshooting skills, thank you very much.

I tested this on my Rev2 (8 voice), serial 2808-004xx and I cannot reproduce it. I am on the latest firmware, system is stable and responds correctly. Being able to consistently reproduce the fault, in your case, on the 16th value makes me believe this is some kind of register overflow issue (2^^16). Which might mean DSI could fix it or create a workaround in the firmware possibly. Obviously this is a speculation from my side.
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Morgenspaziergang on September 06, 2017, 06:21:48 AM
Ive got a higher serial number 16 voice (587). I'd like to attempt to reproduce this so pardon my ignorance in my next question.

Can you cats SPECIFICALLY state what you are doing and/or how to exactly reproduce?

Is this from an init patch or is this with any patch using a pulse?

And this "concern" should occur every 16th played note yes?
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: jazzygb1 on September 06, 2017, 07:22:44 AM
Ive got a higher serial number 16 voice (587). I'd like to attempt to reproduce this so pardon my ignorance in my next question.

Can you cats SPECIFICALLY state what you are doing and/or how to exactly reproduce?

Is this from an init patch or is this with any patch using a pulse?

And this "concern" should occur every 16th played note yes?

To be honest I think I'd already been very specific!!!

I've explained it clearly in my previous post and then did a video too!

How much more specific do you want? lol

Anyway, as demonstrated in the video... I started from a new Basic Program, selected just oscillator 1 (Osc mix knob hard left) and (in my case at least) the issue occurs as demonstrated with only the keys only in the lower octaves affected.

Basically for the keys effected this what happens...

With a triangle shape selected on the oscillator, the 16th press will always sound a louder sawtooth kind of sound.

With a Pulse selected on the oscillator and put in square wave (50% shape mod), the 16th note played will always either play a sawtooth or not sound at all.

I must stress this issue occurs EVERY 16th note for me, regardless of what 15 keys were played before.
You do not have to play the same note 16 times for it to occur, I only play the same note 16 times in the video to clearly illustrate the pattern.

For example if I played 15 notes in the higher octave and then played a 16th note in the 'effected zone' in the lower octave, the same wrong sound/no sound fault would occur.

So this is a problem that actually manifest itself in 'real world' playing too.

Obviously the likelihood of playing the same note 16 times in a row in a song are quite slim and if this was what you had to do for the issue to occur, then I'd probably not be bothered about it.

However the 16th note is ALWAYS affected if it's an effected note, regardless of where the 15 notes preceding it were played if you understand and that's why it's a problem.

That's my issues in a nutshell, other users experiencing issues may have slightly different symptoms.

I'll upload another video later to further clarify what I mean.
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Propheteer on September 06, 2017, 07:57:58 AM
Bear in mind your issue may not be exactly like Jazzy's, you could still have an issue like me (even on 8 voice) on just one voice rather than all 4, or maybe on 2,3 or 6.. your synth might be different.

He did go into a lot of detail already imo.

Init a basic program, this will only use OSC 1, set it to triangle, play the same key over and over till you've gone through all your voices (8 or 16) and listen for anything other than a pure triangle (a bit of buzz/square as if shape mod is changed for that voice only). That is one issue. Also that MAY only occur on certain ranges of keys so try playing that init sound on triangle up and down the keyboard.

Change it to pulse waveform and set shape mod to 50% - repeat above.

CHange shape mod to full clockwise - repeat above (this is an issue I have but jazzy doesn't I think) - where ONE note (same one as bad triangle) is silent because that full shape mod has collapsed the wave (out of calibration) vs the other voices.

It's always the same voice when you have an issue and the voices play in a cycle.

This DSI silence is a bit worrying... All I'd like to know if this weirdness is as 'designed' and all REV2s have it, or if I have a genuinely faulty unit that I have mere days to return!! :(
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Robot Heart on September 06, 2017, 10:59:56 AM
Hi Propheteer-

This is a public forum for mostly customer interaction, with some interaction from DSI. If you have additional information or want a personal response, the fastest way to achieve that is always going to be by contacting us directly.

We've already commented on this particular topic here:

http://forum.davesmithinstruments.com/index.php/topic,1573.msg19989.html#msg19989

If you have new troubleshooting information please contact us directly. Rest assured our silence does not imply disregard. Because this issue is still being evaluated and classified, we have no new comments other than what has already been stated.
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: jazzygb1 on September 06, 2017, 06:44:14 PM
Okay, after speaking with Dave Smith support and following their instructions, the problem has been revealed to be a faulty voice chip on the main board. :(

So sadly not something that can be fixed by a firmware update.

I'm waiting to hear what my options are, but I think I'll probably have to return the Rev2 (sigh).

I don't think I could fit a new motherboard, that'd be a bit too techy for me.

Oh well, I feel better that at least it's been decisively diagnosed.

I await instructions from Dave Smith for what's the quickest way to have it resolved.

For anyone interested my final video shows the problem (and the rather neat inside of a REV2 too! :)

https://youtu.be/uxAHS151G0s (https://youtu.be/uxAHS151G0s)
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Propheteer on September 06, 2017, 10:24:30 PM
Thanks for letting us know, this is what I feared too. While in my case it wasn't something that hit me over the head as it was a lesser fault, it's still a fault. Which means the synth is also worth less as an asset should I wish to sell it in future. So looks like I'll have to return it to my retailer. Love the synth but don't think I'll risk it again. Real shame. :( was the first DSI synth I'd ever really liked and they turn out faulty!

I'd have no problem fitting a new motherboard personally (esp on a modern synth like this with basically an empty chassis; have already seen inside on DSI insta), I've fixed vintage synths for years and had to fit similar things to other modern synths that had issues, but what I can't be doing with is putting down deposits for boards, returning old ones (at my expense) insured to the US etc on a BRAND NEW SYNTH.

If i'd have gone through support as you did I think it would have taken to long to miss my 'easy return' window with the retailer. THe fact that even one other person doesn't have this issue on the 8 voice should have tipped me off. I may contact DSI anyway just to get it in writing. £1500 isn't really joke money. :(

BTW in my case i think that 'bit of saw' on the triangle is actually the filter on one voice that opens up too far, if I turn down the cut off I can make the 'sawy' one almost match the tone of the others (though they sound duller). With this all in one synth chips the oscs and filter are all there so a bad chip can manifest as filter or waveform issues just like an old dying Juno 106's voice chips!
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Propheteer on September 06, 2017, 11:09:28 PM
I'm waiting to hear what my options are, but I think I'll probably have to return the Rev2 (sigh).

https://youtu.be/uxAHS151G0s (https://youtu.be/uxAHS151G0s)

Yeah for me that 'no sound' on a key happens when shape mod is on full (not 50%) but same thing, just one voice does it the rest are fine.

Are you going to get another one? Would you miss it now if you decided not to replace it with another REV2? I love this synth but I'm worried that these faults may develop over time even if a 'new' unit shows no signs of faults. And unlike old synths where you could fix them yourself in years to come with simple components or plug in chips, these are all tightly packed SMT components almost impossible to be user fixed (much like the cursed Andromeda A6 and its legendary faults)
Title: Re: Oscillator issues and bugs, or do I have a faulty synth?
Post by: Propheteer on September 06, 2017, 11:24:36 PM
Additionally, if there is a problem DSI should just confirm if its a bug, reproduce-able, publish the root cause and corrective action. Publishing a knowledge base/FAQ
of issues on the web (with affected serial#) would also help.

Personally,  I don't have much confidence in American factories and many are sub-par to China factories (have seen many). 

Have to agree with this a bit. I've had nothing but quality issues with every US made synth I've bought in recent years (Moog and now DSI basically). Both had severe faults that needed or would need replacement parts and work on my end.

I also agree that they could have just said in this thread if these synths were 'meant' to be doing this, through some really undesirable but as designed feature (flaw) rather than try to bury it through the usual 'contact us at support' to keep it off the forums! Only by talking to other users openly do we find patterns (much like the Sub 37's famous filter pot issue) that can confirm pretty quickly if something is right or not.

I have contacted DSI and my retailer this morning to get the ball rolling. Was about to start recording with the REV2 over the next 2 weeks or more so this is quite annoying/disappointing.
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: gernotreininger on September 07, 2017, 02:33:44 AM
I have an issue with the pulse wave. When shape is set to 99% there is no sound across the keys except for four or five keys in the upper range. Same on both oscillators. I have already contacted support.
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Propheteer on September 07, 2017, 03:01:45 AM
I suppose one upside of getting a new mainboard from DSI is that it can be pre-tested by them on all waveforms across all keys and certified before sending it, if we return synths to get another one there's no guarantee the next one won't have similar faults too (and other faults like keybed or encoders - so if we have a good one physically which I do I'm loathe to swap it for one that could have physical issues just to get a good voice board).

I think I want to keep the synth, it's so useful and sounds glorious even up against certain VCO synths I've got here. Would miss it for sure. The only pain is costs of sending the old voice board back to the US (from UK), that won't come cheap and adds to the cost of the synth which is still brand new. Will see what DSI say.
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: jazzygb1 on September 07, 2017, 04:19:03 AM
I suppose one upside of getting a new mainboard from DSI is that it can be pre-tested by them on all waveforms across all keys and certified before sending it, if we return synths to get another one there's no guarantee the next one won't have similar faults too (and other faults like keybed or encoders - so if we have a good one physically which I do I'm loathe to swap it for one that could have physical issues just to get a good voice board).

I think I want to keep the synth, it's so useful and sounds glorious even up against certain VCO synths I've got here. Would miss it for sure. The only pain is costs of sending the old voice board back to the US (from UK), that won't come cheap and adds to the cost of the synth which is still brand new. Will see what DSI say.

Yes I too am in the UK and like you would rather not have to return it.
I'm in Nottingham and retailer I purchased from in London, so I'd have to repack it and pay a courier to send it back and knowing my luck it'd get lost!!!
 
Everything else on my Rev2 seems to work perfectly so like you I'd be reluctant to change it for another one.
It appears most Rev2's have niggles of some kind so if I could get this sorted without the hassle of sending it back that'd be the ideal solution for me.

I've informed my retailer I intend to return it, as my 14 day no quibble return/refund option expires tomorrow, so hopefully DSI will be in contact today to let me know what my options are.

Yes I'd love to keep the synth, but tbh I don't want the hassle of diagnosing another unit which I feel might be the case if I get another, so if I can't 'swap it out', I'll probably just return it for a full refund and look for something else instead. :(

Will wait on an update from DS support.

Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Propheteer on September 07, 2017, 05:17:28 AM
yeah, understood. I know the mainboard should be very simple to swap in though, some screws out of the case, out of the board, put new board in then do it all back up again. Not a complex synth at all internally. I can't seem to find anything else that quite hits the mark like the REV2, god knows I've looked long enough (and owned enough synths new and old). REV2 just seems to have that magic combination of every feature I've wanted + good analog sound + decent price + 5 octaves and all the modern luxuries like LFO/Clock sync on everything.
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Morgenspaziergang on September 07, 2017, 06:36:13 AM
Appreciate the replies gents. Ill smoke this over and see how it plays out for me.
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: jazzygb1 on September 07, 2017, 06:54:42 AM
yeah, understood. I know the mainboard should be very simple to swap in though, some screws out of the case, out of the board, put new board in then do it all back up again. Not a complex synth at all internally.

Well if replacing the main board is as simple as you say, then that would be my preference tbh.
I'm no expert but I'm relatively capable with a screw driver and that way I get to keep the synth too. :)
As like you, I think it's great and it looks super cool sat next to my beloved Prophet 12 too!  ;D
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: jazzygb1 on September 07, 2017, 07:18:42 AM
Actually, after watching that video back, there's even some inconsistencies with the sound in that board before the note drops, so it's probably actually 5 voice chips that are effected, all be it not as severely as the dud.
Listen from 1m 48s and you'll hear an audible change at 1m 53s point.
God I'm a geek!  ;)
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Sinamsis on September 07, 2017, 06:20:07 PM
I suppose one upside of getting a new mainboard from DSI is that it can be pre-tested by them on all waveforms across all keys and certified before sending it, if we return synths to get another one there's no guarantee the next one won't have similar faults too (and other faults like keybed or encoders - so if we have a good one physically which I do I'm loathe to swap it for one that could have physical issues just to get a good voice board).

I think I want to keep the synth, it's so useful and sounds glorious even up against certain VCO synths I've got here. Would miss it for sure. The only pain is costs of sending the old voice board back to the US (from UK), that won't come cheap and adds to the cost of the synth which is still brand new. Will see what DSI say.


I think I've already mentioned this... but I was having the buzzy saw on 4/16 voices.  I replaced my main board.... and I still have the same problem.  So I wouldn't be optimistic.  If replacing the board fixes this problem please let me know.  Ha, I could try a third.  That said replacing the main voice board was pretty easy.  Just have to remove a bunch of screws, then unplug a few things... Not very difficult.
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Propheteer on September 07, 2017, 08:46:42 PM
Everything concerning the voicing of the synth is on that board (unless you have an add-on voice card too) so it's strange that your problem didn't go away, was it exactly the same? same voice too? Unless there's some kind of per-voice control logic chip on the controller (upper) boards I can't see how swapping to a new mainboard would be the same, unless the board they sent you they didn't test properly either? which would be a schoolboy error of epic proportions!

Yeah the mainboard looks easy as anything. When you've fixed leaking battery damage on a Polysix mainboard and brought back an AX-80 from the dead due to the power supply area being completely ruined, popping in a new board in is like making a sandwich :)

Had to fit a new control panel to my Sub 37 which was easy enough but more tricky than the REV2 mainboard as had a ton of bolts on every pot + awkward panel access.
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Alphacode909 on September 08, 2017, 11:19:31 AM
Ok after following the steps mentionned above i retested it and i fo have on 4/8 voices a very faint buzzing it is hardly noticable but it's there, also i noticed my PW on the Square wave getting thin the upper the keyboard i go if set to 90%. I am seriously considering giving it back and take my money now :(
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Robot Heart on September 08, 2017, 11:55:07 AM
Hi Alphacode909-

Have you contacted our customer support directly? support (at) davesmithinstruments.com
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Sinamsis on September 08, 2017, 05:15:20 PM
Everything concerning the voicing of the synth is on that board (unless you have an add-on voice card too) so it's strange that your problem didn't go away, was it exactly the same? same voice too? Unless there's some kind of per-voice control logic chip on the controller (upper) boards I can't see how swapping to a new mainboard would be the same, unless the board they sent you they didn't test properly either? which would be a schoolboy error of epic proportions!

Yeah the mainboard looks easy as anything. When you've fixed leaking battery damage on a Polysix mainboard and brought back an AX-80 from the dead due to the power supply area being completely ruined, popping in a new board in is like making a sandwich :)

Had to fit a new control panel to my Sub 37 which was easy enough but more tricky than the REV2 mainboard as had a ton of bolts on every pot + awkward panel access.

I do have a 16 voice, but it's definitely the meain board.  Removing the  expansion board didn't make a difference.  And it's exactly the same.  4/16 voices have a buzziness to their triangle.  Which makes me wonder how prevalent the problem is.  And made me hesitate to swap out a voice board again.  That said, as mentioned above, it's not really noticeable when you actually get down to programming.  But it's really annoying to know that it's there.
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Propheteer on September 08, 2017, 10:54:59 PM
well I contacted DSI two days ago, only had the ticket number no actual reply yet and i'm on my last day of return window... love the synth but something isn't right here for so many people to have this issue.
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Alphacode909 on September 09, 2017, 06:49:23 AM
Hi Alphacode909-

Have you contacted our customer support directly? support (at) davesmithinstruments.com

Thank you , i am sorry to say but i decided to send it back today on the 30day money back scheme my shop offers. This is clearly a big issue and in my opinion INACCEPTABLE for an instrument of such price for at least DSI to not acknowledge it publically.

I am afraid the Curtis chips will fail after some time and i will have lots of trouble to get replacement parts from US.  This is my 2nd product from DSI i have issues with so i am not taking risks. Most of your synths are really really great and i love my Pro2 and will keep it forever, but doubt i will ever buy a DSI product in the future.
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: jazzygb1 on September 09, 2017, 04:28:19 PM
Hi Alphacode909-

Have you contacted our customer support directly? support (at) davesmithinstruments.com

Thank you , i am sorry to say but i decided to send it back today on the 30day money back scheme my shop offers. This is clearly a big issue and in my opinion INACCEPTABLE for an instrument of such price for at least DSI to not acknowledge it publically.

I am afraid the Curtis chips will fail after some time and i will have lots of trouble to get replacement parts from US.  This is my 2nd product from DSI i have issues with so i am not taking risks. Most of your synths are really really great and i love my Pro2 and will keep it forever, but doubt i will ever buy a DSI product in the future.

That's a shame as their synths sound yummy! :)

However I can totally understand it considering your experiences.

I wouldn't worry about the Curtis chips failing though, as they are pretty much ubiquitous in DSI synths and have no record of failing to my knowledge.

I think the problems with the REV2 stem from their choice of voice chips. Certainly based on this thread they'd seem to be a bit fickle at least.

My retailer is replacing mine with a brand new replacement, so fingers crossed it'll be a case of second time lucky for me! :)

Though I'd be lying if I said I didn't have reservations about the replacement also having issues, but I love my Prophet 12 and I really like the REV2 too, so I'm giving it the benefit of a doubt.

I do feel long term maybe Dave Smith will either have to change the voice chip design and probably up the cost as result.

Only time will tell.

I know they had problems with the Prophet 08 back in the day and they sorted them out eventually, hopefully they'll do the same with the REV2 too. :)
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: dsetto on September 09, 2017, 10:51:06 PM
It's my assessment that it all gets sorted out.
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Sleep of Reason on September 11, 2017, 12:56:41 PM
Well I can say that DSI were extremely responsive and got me new boards in no time, which fixed the issue.
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Robot Heart on September 11, 2017, 02:45:02 PM
jazzygb1 is right, Curtis chips rarely fail so that's more or less a non-issue.

I can't see how we're failing to acknowledge an issue publicly when it's being discussed on a public forum and we're directly commenting in the thread? As mentioned, since we are in the process of categorizing what's happening we don't have an official response as of yet. But that's completely different from not acknowledging that users are experiencing something, which we've done now, more than once.

It's understandable if you're new to DSI that you may not be familiar with our support, but we take care of our customers, and long after the warranty period has expired so if you have one of our instruments we support it as long as we can.
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Propheteer on September 12, 2017, 02:27:27 AM
I wrote to support last Thursday, had a ticket number/email come through, provided more details (serial/retailer) heard nothing since? I just wanna know if it's gonna be easier to swap in a board that' sbeen pre-checked at/by DSI to be fully working, than sending this whole unit back to the retailer and taking another gamble on a unit that could be the same!

Would rather just get a new board if it's gonna def fix the issue.


Also I'm not letting this issue put me off the REV2, it remains an absolutely stunning synth in every respect and is going to have a lot of use on my stuff, it can do so much and in such a great package. I see NOTHING out there that competes with it for this price on sound, features, build, looks and versatility/usefulness, and with a (praise the lord) 5 octave keybed!

It's also super inspiring (thanks to easy programming, tons of easy to handle power and the poly seq which is great for rattling off ideas for later;though I admit it would be even cooler if was a 'live' sequencer to record into not just a step seq) and very expressive (not only the great aftertouch and nice feeling wheels but the sound itself which has an emotional or atmospheric quality about it when programmed right).
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Propheteer on September 12, 2017, 02:28:49 AM
Well I can say that DSI were extremely responsive and got me new boards in no time, which fixed the issue.

I'm guessing you are in the US yeah?
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Robot Heart on September 12, 2017, 10:35:50 AM
I wrote to support last Thursday, had a ticket number/email come through, provided more details (serial/retailer) heard nothing since?

You must have used a different email address than the one you registered on the forum, I don't see any support inquiries from that one. If you wrote on Thursday, it's highly unusual to not have received a reply the same business day or the next business day. Please check your spam/junk mail, and I apologize if you haven't received a reply.

Feel free to PM me the email address you used to contact our tech support and I will look into it.

Being in the US or any other country has no bearing on the level of support we hold for our customers. We strive to help everyone quickly and equally.
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Propheteer on September 12, 2017, 12:59:35 PM
I wrote to support last Thursday, had a ticket number/email come through, provided more details (serial/retailer) heard nothing since?

You must have used a different email address than the one you registered on the forum, I don't see any support inquiries from that one. If you wrote on Thursday, it's highly unusual to not have received a reply the same business day or the next business day. Please check your spam/junk mail, and I apologize if you haven't received a reply.

Feel free to PM me the email address you used to contact our tech support and I will look into it.

Being in the US or any other country has no bearing on the level of support we hold for our customers. We strive to help everyone quickly and equally.


Yeah I always use different ones for forums (for spam reasons!). I replied to the ticket with retailer/serial etc. Will PM you, Thanks!

I don't for one second think you'd treat other countries differently!?? I merely meant the speed with which he received a new main board is obviously going to be faster in the US than in the UK (where I am!), unless you have a service/parts centre here like Moog do (with source distribution).

Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: jazzygb1 on September 13, 2017, 08:10:38 AM
My replacement REV2 arrived today (yay).
Hopefully it's a case of 2nd time lucky! :)
Will update you if it has any issues.

UPDATE: No problems with the oscillators on the replacement REV2 - wohoo! :)
It shipped with OS v1.0.6.5 so will update to the latest version, but assuming that introduces no problems then I'm a happy bunny! :)
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Sleep of Reason on September 13, 2017, 03:05:39 PM
I must say, the pulse on the new boards has a pretty massive volume discrepancy on some of the shapes. On the lower percentages, the expansion voices are much loader and on the higher percentages the C notes become almost inaudible. Support over at DSI said this was normal due to the extreme nature of pulse and is the same for all REV2s.
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: jazzygb1 on September 13, 2017, 05:03:54 PM

UPDATE: No problems with the oscillators on the replacement REV2 - wohoo! :)
It shipped with OS v1.0.6.5 so will update to the latest version, but assuming that introduces no problems then I'm a happy bunny! :)

Okay, well strictly speaking there is still an issue with a voice not sounding right on my replacement REV2. :(
This time it's on voice 16 rather than voice 1 and it only occurs at the extreme end of a shape modded Pulse wave (between values of 0 & 3, or 97 - 99%) or on a triangle and only on the highest 5 or 6 notes of the synth.
It's much more subtle than it was on my previous REV2 (there's no silent notes) and in all honesty I'm unlikely to encounter it as an issue in 'real world' playing so will live with it for now.
It's not a big enough deal (at the moment at least) to make me return the synth again, but I'll keep an eye (or ear) out for any further issues.
Hopefully there will be none.
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Sleep of Reason on September 13, 2017, 06:03:30 PM
Just checked and the C notes on the triangle higher percentage shapes are almost inaudible too.
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Robot Heart on September 13, 2017, 06:41:19 PM
This is true for any of our synths with the Curtis DCOs. Sometimes you may want a thin pulse width, and you may notice after dialing in a pulse width of 0-1 or 98-99 or similar, some keys appear dead or the sound is barely there.

At extreme pulse widths, there will be a voice -to–voice and a frequency dependent variation. When really thin, the analog electronics are just not going to be perfect. This is especially true on the upper end of the range around 95-99, where there may be some fluctuation of the pulse width signal. Calibrating the filter can get them as close as they're going to get.

If a thin pulse is desired, use the low range of the keyboard, where voice-to-voice consistency is much better. If it were perfect (i.e. digital), a pulse width of 99 is the same as 1, just inverted, so it sounds the same and either value can be substituted.
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Propheteer on September 15, 2017, 01:11:19 AM
I can understand the shape mod/pulse width thing a bit. And being analog, though I've never had any other analog synth (inc old VCO like polysix that were way out of calibration) that exhibited this issue! Voice to voice could vary... slightly. But the pulse issue is like just one voice is completely off, way off, to the point it falls silent while the others don't. If I dial back the shape mod to hear that voice, it still continually sounds thinner/weaker than the other 7 voices, which is really obvious until you get it back to 50%. I guess if you were modulating it it wouldn't matter at all, you want that movement and variety, and analog-ness, but if you are doing a static pulse tone where you want each key/note/voice to at least trigger and you have the shape mod above 50 then it presents a problem with a sound that has this glaring flaw.

Similar with the triangle, in many cases it's never an issue and you could use the other osc instead for when it's most obvious (a single osc soft triangle sound when that one, in my case, voice pokes through more like a saw which ruins the sound), the issue is that some other people don't have this issue! If we were all on the same page here it wouldn't be such a big deal I guess, but as some don't have it and some do, and some don't have the pulse issue (as much or on the same amount of voices) etc it makes me worried that in future it will become known as an infamous issue with the rev2 and put second hand buyers off buying my unit to seek out one that doesn't have that issue. And while I do not plan on selling it, never say never, have bought and sold many many synths over the past 10 years and am always honest about issues on ebay.

DSI have been very helpful and are working with on this, they tested a new board for me and said the pulse issue is still there as it's 'meant to be' that way (but whether it's just on one voice, 7 voices or w/e I don't know) and apparently the triangle issue isn't present on the new board (so I assume that means each voice sounds similar without one being a lot brighter)

as said I've had many analogs DCO and VCO and the only time I recall anything like this was in an MKS-50 that had a filter chip out of calibration and had to go in and tweak some pots, it wasn't 'normal' and it wasn't really accepted as normal or "as per analog". Analog has subtle variances, these issues just sound out of calibration to me and we have no way of user calibrating them (not talking about the menu soft-calibration). On that mks-50 1 out of 6 voices would sound a lot brighter (filter opening too far for that voice), the synth was sold dirt cheap (to me) due to that issue, easy fix for me but it does show that buyers and synth nuts are aware when something isn't quite right on a voice to voice basis.

If all the voices varied a little on repeated keys (triangle issue going brighter or shape modded pulse falling silent) then it would be more tolerable, even welcome, but when it's just ONE it stands out like a sore (saw? ;) ) thumb and definitely doesn't feel anything like what I'd think of as an analog "bonus".

I'm not sure how to proceed at the moment as having the board sent out to me, and me having to return the old one from the UK to the US + fitting it etc is quite a bit of hassle considering the synth is just over 2 weeks old, which I wouldn't mind if the new board was 100% a some others have claimed theirs are. So is it worth it just to fix the triangle issue but not the pulse one?? or should I return it to the retailer and try another unit from them (free). I'll let you guys know what I decide. Am gutted though because I really love this synth and thought I'd found my 'keeper' (workhorse) after years of many synths.
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Propheteer on September 15, 2017, 01:27:25 AM
This is true for any of our synths with the Curtis DCOs. Sometimes you may want a thin pulse width, and you may notice after dialing in a pulse width of 0-1 or 98-99 or similar, some keys appear dead or the sound is barely there.

At extreme pulse widths, there will be a voice -to–voice and a frequency dependent variation. When really thin, the analog electronics are just not going to be perfect. This is especially true on the upper end of the range around 95-99, where there may be some fluctuation of the pulse width signal. Calibrating the filter can get them as close as they're going to get.

If a thin pulse is desired, use the low range of the keyboard, where voice-to-voice consistency is much better. If it were perfect (i.e. digital), a pulse width of 99 is the same as 1, just inverted, so it sounds the same and either value can be substituted.

Sounds good, but am sure on my Polysix (VCOs that are 30+ years old and definitely not 'in calibration' at the moment) that when I set the pulse width to just below max (so it's super thin - and the polysix can collapse the wave all the way if you go max so its not some weak/tame thing like some synths) that all the voices and all the notes still make a sound, none are silent, unless ALL are silent (by going to max). It must surely be harder for old discreet oscs with loads of old caps to stay in tolerance and yet it still sounds fine, while the curtis synth on a chip stuff is very modern and with very few components to get in the way, it seems implausible that they should be out by that much, esp on modern easy to reproduce fully-on-chip voice/filter/vca combos such as these curtis PA chips? It definitely doesn't seem to me like just some analog life or charm, it 100% feels like one voice is out of calibration. In old synths I can go in and dial some pots to get them all singing from the same hymn sheet, this is impossible on a modern SMT/all in one synth like the rev2, it has to be done at the factory. The chips themselves should be extremely close/similar from voice to voice, otherwise there would be a bit of an issue in manufacturing, the fact 7 out of 8 voices are close to 'perfect' shows this!

I wonder if it's the extra components around the curtis chips causing it, like smt resistors or capacitors for that one 'off' voice, could be a bad cap or something.

Also given that there seems to be some randomness happening based on frequency/notes played and with the triangle too (which is definitely not 'normal') it does show that there are areas that are open to mis-calibration or faults on these boards (or possibly chips but I find that hard to believe as the whole point of ICs is to be as close to perfect/replicable as possible no matter if it forms part of an analog synth or not - many chips SSM, Curtis, Roland and others from synths 30+ years old could be swapped into a voice circuit and sound 99.9% the same, within tolerance). This sounds like bad chips or components or mis-calibration. And saying that shapemod/pulsewidth can vary between voices doesn't really cover the issue some of us are seeing, again only SOME of us, which makes it more like a fault than as designed.

Does the prophet 08 do this on triangle btw? (I know it doesn't have shape mod to test the pulse thing).
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Sleep of Reason on September 15, 2017, 03:16:41 AM
Agreed, if this is not an issue that everyone is encountering, then we should receive replacement boards that are fully functional. I don't understand why my new boards weren't fully tested (actually played) to see that everything was fully functional as requested and not just tested with ground probes. Not only have I spent money that I shouldn't have had to for shipping, I've also spent an exorbitant amount of time trying to sort this out as well.
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: cloudswimmer on September 17, 2017, 01:02:29 AM
Hi,

So I've been lurking here and another board reading about Rev 2 user experiences. I like the sound of this synth from some of the video demos I've seen, but this whole voice board issue has me a little hesitant to take the plunge. Like so many I'm an old analog guy having started with the Moog D in the late 70's .. and selling off the last of my analog poly's in the late 80's (a Jupiter eight), and I'm kinda longing for the experience again now in my late middle age. The only issue I ever had with an analog poly is an OBXa that blew a power supply .. So is this Rev 2 voice board issue just a few units out of thousands that have gone bad? And has the jumpy encoder issues I've read about been ironed out? I can't lift over 10 pounds now because of health issues, so having to lift and ship a Rev 2 back for repair would be difficult to say the least.
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Alphacode909 on September 17, 2017, 03:02:28 AM
This issue is unacceptable for such a pricy synth , I would think that DSI would stop shipping and fixeed the issue first.

I sent back the Rev2 to get my money back and got a Novation Peak instead, not only it can do a lot more it's cheaper. I will repeat what i said before even if admins get upset , it's not the quality us users are expecting from such pricey products !
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: jazzygb1 on September 17, 2017, 07:22:39 AM
This issue is unacceptable for such a pricy synth , I would think that DSI would stop shipping and fixeed the issue first.

I sent back the Rev2 to get my money back and got a Novation Peak instead, not only it can do a lot more it's cheaper. I will repeat what i said before even if admins get upset , it's not the quality us users are expecting from such pricey products !

Well the Peak my be a lot of things, but it certainly isn't cheaper...or analogue for that matter!

If you compare the Peak (which is desktop only), to the Rev2 desktop they are exactly the same price.

The Rev2 has 8 analogue voices (which the peak does not) and can be upgraded to 16 voices (which the Peak cannot), and is Bi-timbral (the Peak is not - mono timbral).

Also, for just £150 more, you get a 5 octave, 52 knob, keyboard with velocity and aftertouch, plus separate outputs for the bi-timbral voices - fantastic value.

I'm pleased you're enjoying the Peak, but it's a totally different product to the Rev2 and the 'lot more' you claim it can do is subjective at best and wrong at worst.

There only 2 LFO's on the Peak for example and there's no sequencer either.

It could be argued then that it does a 'lot less'! :)

As someone who has had a faulty Rev2 I can understand your frustration, but the fact remains that it is an excellent analogue synth that sounds great and for the money and there isn't really a comparable product out there.

Anyway, enjoy the Peak. :)
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Propheteer on September 17, 2017, 07:54:55 AM
I agree with jazzy, had my fill of 'fake' synths (digital oscs through analog filters or all digital for that matter). REV2 is the only analog synth in its class to deliver this spec, build quality, thought of design and robust analog sound. I can spot the peak and other hybrids and VAs a mile off, they just don't fill the same need. Of course they are cheaper, so is software... for a reason!

Also I've read many people had issues with the Peak too, distortion issues among them.

This gremlin with the rev2 isn't the end of the world and most people seem to have good units.
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: DavidDever on September 17, 2017, 07:55:03 AM
This issue is unacceptable for such a pricy synth , I would think that DSI would stop shipping and fixeed the issue first.

I sent back the Rev2 to get my money back and got a Novation Peak instead, not only it can do a lot more it's cheaper. I will repeat what i said before even if admins get upset , it's not the quality us users are expecting from such pricey products !

At the least, it would be handy to have an official document that describes the perceived problem, a factory test mode that allows one to cycle through the voices (8- or 16-voice variants), and a procedure to set the default patch to pass / fail the test. This would allow distributors or retailers to, at the customer's discretion, identify a unit which suffers from the problem prior to dispatch / purchase.
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Propheteer on September 17, 2017, 08:00:11 AM
This issue is unacceptable for such a pricy synth , I would think that DSI would stop shipping and fixeed the issue first.

I sent back the Rev2 to get my money back and got a Novation Peak instead, not only it can do a lot more it's cheaper. I will repeat what i said before even if admins get upset , it's not the quality us users are expecting from such pricey products !

At the least, it would be handy to have an official document that describes the perceived problem, a factory test mode that allows one to cycle through the voices (8- or 16-voice variants), and a procedure to set the default patch to pass / fail the test. This would allow distributors or retailers to, at the customer's discretion, identify a unit which suffers from the problem prior to dispatch / purchase.

It's been described in this thread in minute detail. It takes seconds to check. init basic program (so only osc 1 is on), select triangle, and play a key repeatedly, do they all sound more or less the same (some slight volume variance is ok and welcome) does one or more sound like a bit  of saw wave of shape mod has been applied? if so you have the issue (I do on one voice). I haven't noticed it at all in my usual sounds/programming unless I specifically check for it.

The pulse thing is a little different though for me it's on the same voice/chip (you can tell by going between triangle/pulse wave while holding the affected key down), honestly to me it sounds like the shape mod for that one voice/chip is being applied more than the others so it makes the triangle sound sharper and makes the pulse collapse to silence on that one voice.

It's not a life or death issue in reality but its a quirk that would be better fixed esp if everyone isn't having the same quirk. I was told they MAY be able to do something in software for the pulse issue but as I honestly think both issues are linked and that the one chip is just way out of calibration (shape mod seems too much for the one voice/chip on my unit) they may indeed be able to fix both in software. I have to wait till I'm back mid week next week to see about the new board or return/swap the synth.
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: DavidDever on September 17, 2017, 08:15:12 AM
This issue is unacceptable for such a pricy synth , I would think that DSI would stop shipping and fixeed the issue first.

I sent back the Rev2 to get my money back and got a Novation Peak instead, not only it can do a lot more it's cheaper. I will repeat what i said before even if admins get upset , it's not the quality us users are expecting from such pricey products !

At the least, it would be handy to have an official document that describes the perceived problem, a factory test mode that allows one to cycle through the voices (8- or 16-voice variants), and a procedure to set the default patch to pass / fail the test. This would allow distributors or retailers to, at the customer's discretion, identify a unit which suffers from the problem prior to dispatch / purchase.

It's been described in this thread in minute detail. It takes seconds to check. init basic program (so only osc 1 is on), select triangle, and play a key repeatedly, do they all sound more or less the same (some slight volume variance is ok and welcome) does one or more sound like a bit  of saw wave of shape mod has been applied? if so you have the issue (I do on one voice). I haven't noticed it at all in my usual sounds/programming unless I specifically check for it.

The pulse thing is a little different though for me it's on the same voice/chip (you can tell by going between triangle/pulse wave while holding the affected key down), honestly to me it sounds like the shape mod for that one voice/chip is being applied more than the others so it makes the triangle sound sharper and makes the pulse collapse to silence on that one voice.

It's not a life or death issue in reality but its a quirk that would be better fixed esp if everyone isn't having the same quirk. I was told they MAY be able to do something in software for the pulse issue but as I honestly think both issues are linked and that the one chip is just way out of calibration (shape mod seems too much for the one voice/chip on my unit) they may indeed be able to fix both in software. I have to wait till I'm back mid week next week to see about the new board or return/swap the synth.

It might be able to be resolved in software (by my guess, anyway) with an offset, but it would require per-voice calibration of each instrument at both ends of travel–perhaps as a user-adjustable global set of values.

Ideally, it should be added to the voice calibration routine, if it's not a hardware fault but simply a waveshaper variation (same as any other analogue variation that is accommodated within the auto-calibration).

If it's actually a hardware fault: the doc could be used short-term to identify faulty units, and medium-term for manufacturing QC.
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Alphacode909 on September 17, 2017, 08:17:55 AM
Well let's review the facts Rev2 has DCO's not VCO's and we know there ain't much difference between the the first two,

Yes it does not have 4 Lfo's true but can use 4 effects simoultanously which for me is key killer feature the rev 2 lacks.

They are different synths ideed, and maybe i didn't write my posts correctly but i did like the Rev2 a lot , and was really struggling to send it back, I however do not accept poor quality, have you read my previous post where i explained that not only the osc were an issue in mine but a key started to squeak to a point i had to open it and lubricate it ? UNACCEPTABLE !

If had cash and the issues get fixed i would probably go for the 16 voice version this time , i even got time to make a video demo : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy2-pp6tU-I

Have a listen !

Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Sinamsis on September 17, 2017, 08:54:46 AM
I agree with jazzy, had my fill of 'fake' synths (digital oscs through analog filters or all digital for that matter). REV2 is the only analog synth in its class to deliver this spec, build quality, thought of design and robust analog sound. I can spot the peak and other hybrids and VAs a mile off, they just don't fill the same need. Of course they are cheaper, so is software... for a reason!

Also I've read many people had issues with the Peak too, distortion issues among them.

This gremlin with the rev2 isn't the end of the world and most people seem to have good units.


Yeah, but let's call a spade a spade.  Some of us have bad boards and have replaced them only to have the same issue, or other issues.  So that is kind of messed up.  And I suspect other users are just overlooking some of these issues.  Again, it's not a deal breaker for me, as I suspect it would get sorted with time.  But it is a legitimate issue.  And downplaying can be a little frustrating for those of us who are experiencing it.
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: jazzygb1 on September 17, 2017, 10:01:41 AM
Well let's review the facts Rev2 has DCO's not VCO's and we know there ain't much difference between the the first two,

Yes it does not have 4 Lfo's true but can use 4 effects simoultanously which for me is key killer feature the rev 2 lacks.

They are different synths ideed, and maybe i didn't write my posts correctly but i did like the Rev2 a lot , and was really struggling to send it back, I however do not accept poor quality, have you read my previous post where i explained that not only the osc were an issue in mine but a key started to squeak to a point i had to open it and lubricate it ? UNACCEPTABLE !

If had cash and the issues get fixed i would probably go for the 16 voice version this time , i even got time to make a video demo : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy2-pp6tU-I

Have a listen !

Well you certainly won't have to worry about squeaky keys with the Peak - it doesn't have any! :)

The Rev2 has digitally controlled ANALOGUE oscillators, not digitally controlled digital ones like on the Peak.

I do not accept your assertion that a squeaky key and a faulty voice chip equals poor quality.

What it really equals is a faulty unit, return it and get a replacement.

I've had no squeaky keys on any of my REV2's and Dave Smith have a great reputation for addressing issues with their products.

4 fx at once is neither here or there for me - I can add as many fx to a sound as I like after Ive recorded it.

4 Lfo's on the other hand...well that fundamentally affects the sound itself and cannot be added afterwards.

The Rev2 has only been out a few months and it takes time to establish the cause of issues. I'm sure if any systemic hardware flaws are found they will be addressed by Dave Smith as quickly as possible.

I think perhaps expecting them to announce a global product recall or instantly remedying it is unrealistic.

Still, what matters is that you are happy and you seem to be pleased with your Peak, so all's well that ends well.

I'm happy with my replacement Rev2 too! :)
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Propheteer on September 17, 2017, 01:18:38 PM
Well let's review the facts Rev2 has DCO's not VCO's and we know there ain't much difference between the the first two,

Yes it does not have 4 Lfo's true but can use 4 effects simoultanously which for me is key killer feature the rev 2 lacks.



Not sure what you're saying it but the oscs on the peak are pure digital, and they are 100% analog on the Rev2 (just digital controlled for tuning just like a Juno 60, JX-3P... insert your favored analog DCO synth here). Digital oscs like on peak or even prophet 12 or pro 2 never react or sound quite the same as real analog. It's true that many don't care and maybe can't even hear, but I can and many others can.

For example this Peak sound here from their site: https://soundcloud.com/novation_peak/sweet-saw-pad is a typical example of why I'd never own peak over rev2. To me it's glaringly obvious that isn't analog. It's weak, it's thin, its ineffective and it's hardly much better than a soft synth. The filter's cool but it sounds plastic, it sounds 'fake', it sounds like a VERY VERY good softsynth. But that's all. If that was on rev2 it would sound rich, emotional, three dimensional and pleasing. Even as a "mere" DCO synth with "only" curtis filters, its miles ahead of digital oscs if analog sound is your goal. Never ever buy a hybrid synth like Prophet 12, Pro 2 or Peak if analog sound is what you desire and what excites you into using it. I've used a ton of software, va and older hybrids myself and my ears can't take that plastic sound anymore. I don't want to get into a battle about this but lets say tastes differ as do ears and those who bought and love rev2 know why they did, others seem like they don't know what they want and will just buy a synth, any synth, regardless of the engine or tech underneath if it makes cool sounds and is a good price. That isn't me! I've had far too many synths in my life to get excited about those types of synths anymore.

We bought REV2 because it's all analog, I personally would never buy any new hardware with digital oscs even with the best analog filter in the world because I have a ton of digital synths at my control in software or older, characterful digital synths I can run through my moog filters or w/e. Why stop at peak? why not mention any hybrid, even some with keyboards like pro2 and prophet 12 etc... sure there are lots of synths out there than can do more than rev2 but they aren't rev2, they aren't 8 voice *analog* polys with a good bit of modulation and enough FX to be handy but not too many to become a burden to sound (that we buy analog synths for). Sounds to me like you just didn't really want a synth like the rev2 and are happier with something like the peak. Personally I fail to see the connection, one is a 5 octave quality built analog synth, the other is a desktop, mostly software based synth in a box with an analog filter on it (no matter how cool the engine is).

As for a squeaky key? Sorry but I can't even begin to take that seriously, sure it shouldn't do it from new, but I've owned so many vintage analogs and made it a routine to clean the keys as in strip them down entirely, bathe them in soap, clean the contacts AND regrease them. Flipping the lid on the rev2 - simplicity itself, and putting a touch of lube on one key isn't going to make me give up on one of the best analog synths in years, nor is this small but irritating osc fault/gremlin that some of us are sadly experiencing.

I pressed DSI for a public answer too so I'm not excusing it, and even as well priced as rev2 is it is still expensive and should be nigh on perfect, but as with anything on the net it gets blown out of proportion when reading a forum that is mostly only here to deal with complaints and bug reports. The hundreds/thousands of happy rev2 owners aren't here posting about dodgy oscs because they either don't care (as it's not a very obvious issue in most cases) or because they don't have it. Those of us who do have it are/have been dealt with by DSI and if that doesn't fix it then we return it (if we choose). I wouldn't buy a peak or any hybrid if I returned the rev2. I'd be fine with the other analogs I have here from the 80s, including very nice sounding VCO stuff (but simpler than rev2). The DCOs in rev2 have their own beauty too, I'm not a VCO stalwart but I like to have them around to compliment the rev2. And I do like some old digitals too (and own some) but won't be spending big money on any digital oscillators in hardware, certainly not while the rev2 exists and is exactly the kind of 'pure' synth I've wanted but with enough power to do what I need (inc control features that the prophet 6 lacks).
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Propheteer on September 17, 2017, 01:27:06 PM

I do not accept your assertion that a squeaky key and a faulty voice chip equals poor quality.

What it really equals is a faulty unit, return it and get a replacement.

4 fx at once is neither here or there for me - I can add as many fx to a sound as I like after Ive recorded it.

4 Lfo's on the other hand...well that fundamentally affects the sound itself and cannot be added afterwards.
 :)

Agree with this again. I love the fact the rev2 has only 1 FX per slot, if it had 2? cool but it doesn't mean I'd use them both. I've had tons of modern synths with multfx available on board and frankly it gets tiring and it also smacks of a synth with a bit to hide in the main engine (Deepmind 12 springs to mind). Often effects are used to mask or make up for deficiencies in the main synth engine, not with rev2, the nice choice but not overwhelming choice means the board still feels analog to program and design sounds on. Like you I couldn't care less if it had 4 or 1 fx at once as I'll use what it has for a sound, then in a mix is where the real "FX" work comes in should I need it (and there I have infinite). We are too spolied these days and people are making sacrifices in tone or synth engine power (peak or DM12) just to have more FX for a cheaper price? Boggles the mind. 4 X LFOs is very important. Pure analog is very important. 5 octaves is very important. A clear user interface and high physical build quality is very important and REV2 has all of that!

No part of the rev2 feels low quality to me, not even the bender wheels which can often feel weak or wobbly on newer synths. Keybed is better quality than even moog were using on their lower end stuff. It's solid and sounds great and has a lot of power for a pure analog synth. I honestly don't see the problem with that, if it's just not the synth for someone then that's that but many of us have waited for an 8/16 voice dual osc + sub, a few FX thrown in, a poly sequencer, analog poly with 5 octaves in a good build that looks and feels well built, for a long time and at a fair price and nobody, not even DSI, has done that until REV2. The only thing I can think of would be Modal 008 and that's very expensive (and obviously VCO/more powerful but you pay for that), in this price bracket there is literally nothing, not even on the vintage market with this spec/and usability, the REV2 also happens to be able to make glorious epic sounds that no old DCO roland can touch (and I've owned and loved them all in my time). It's not just a spec machine, it actually sounds awesome if you know how!
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Alphacode909 on September 17, 2017, 05:22:05 PM
....and people are making sacrifices in tone or synth engine power (peak or DM12)....


LOL ,Just as we started talking about Peak, it has 3 Oscillators with wave table and TRUE Wave shaping , Rev2 on triangle adds a square wave on top of it (not Waveshaping), Peak has LP, HP and BP VCF , OSC's can be set to LFO mod if needs so thats 3-4 LFO's there for you, Peak has a Ring Mod the Rev2 don't , Peak has poly Unison...

Rev 2 sounds great but please don't make a fool of yourself saying for ex Peak has been sacrificed for Fx before doing some reading and listening to it in flesh. I had Rev2 and now Peak and can assure you it sounds better in most aspects (not all).
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: cloudswimmer on September 17, 2017, 06:14:20 PM
Often effects are used to mask or make up for deficiencies in the main synth engine

Or deficiencies in ones playing .. like a mediocre pianist using the sustain pedal on Bach 3 part inventions  ::)
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: DavidDever on September 17, 2017, 06:36:43 PM
Often effects are used to mask or make up for deficiencies in the main synth engine

Or deficiencies in ones playing .. like a mediocre pianist using the sustain pedal on Bach 3 part inventions  ::)

No offense–and highly off-topic–but there were no pianofortes (or fortepianos!) in Bach's time, so I'd be very careful to consider any proscription of performance technique for a then-nonexistent instrument as authoritative.  ;)
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: jazzygb1 on September 17, 2017, 07:02:55 PM
....and people are making sacrifices in tone or synth engine power (peak or DM12)....


LOL ,Just as we started talking about Peak, it has 3 Oscillators with wave table and TRUE Wave shaping , Rev2 on triangle adds a square wave on top of it (not Waveshaping), Peak has LP, HP and BP VCF , OSC's can be set to LFO mod if needs so thats 3-4 LFO's there for you, Peak has a Ring Mod the Rev2 don't , Peak has poly Unison...

Rev 2 sounds great but please don't make a fool of yourself saying for ex Peak has been sacrificed for Fx before doing some reading and listening to it in flesh. I had Rev2 and now Peak and can assure you it sounds better in most aspects (not all).

Most of those things you mention above are also on the £399 Novation Ultranova too.

And that's basically what the Peak is...an Ultranova with more knobs (but less modulation slots, less modulation destinations & less polyphony - 8 compared to 18).

And the UltraNova has a keyboard too!

Actually the Ultranova is cool little synth. :)

If you use an Oscillator as an LFO you lose an oscillator for sound. Much better to have a dedicated LFO I'm sure you'll agree.

And don't forget the REV2 has 2 oscillators PLUS a sub oscillator. Plus you can stack on the REV2, so effectively one patch can be made up from up to 6 oscillators (4 oscillators plus 2 sub oscillators)!

Plus the when the fx section is not in use the WHOLE of the REV2 is analogue, so comparing the REV2 to the Peak is like comparing it to a Studiologic Sledge - they look like they are the same, but they're just not the same thing at all.

I'm glad you're happy with the Peak, but I'm very happy with my Studiologic Sledge too.

As it's digital like the Peak it too has 3 oscillators and wavetables (66 in fact), BP, HP & LP filters PLUS it can load samples and use it as an oscillator. It has a whopping 24 note polyphony with knobs for everything - great! :)

It's a cracking synth, but it's not a viable alternative to the REV2 for the same reason the Peak isn't...it's not analogue.

And ultimately that's the thing that separates it from the Peak, Ultranova, Sledge and all the other digital plugins in your DAW too.

I'm sure the Peak sounds nice but at the end of the day it's a nice sounding DIGITAL synth, The REV2 is a nice sounding analogue one. :)
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Sleep of Reason on September 17, 2017, 07:21:16 PM
This is getting way derailed, though I'm not sure why anyone needs four effects running at a single instance... Having eight (4x2) LFOs & four (2x2) OSC is way more beneficial to me at least. Nor have I heard anything from the Peak that sounded standout to my ears. Being that it's exactly the same price as the 8 voice module REV2, I have no clue why anyone would go that route, but to each his own.

Back to the topic, I sincerely hope that most of this can be amended with an update somehow. Besides its out of the gate stumbles, it's by far my favorite instrument out of the slews of high end gear I've owned over the years. It's the hot girlfriend that I put up with despite some nagging.
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: cloudswimmer on September 17, 2017, 07:27:57 PM
Often effects are used to mask or make up for deficiencies in the main synth engine

Or deficiencies in ones playing .. like a mediocre pianist using the sustain pedal on Bach 3 part inventions  ::)

No offense–and highly off-topic–but there were no pianofortes (or fortepianos!) in Bach's time, so I'd be very careful to consider any proscription of performance technique for a then-nonexistent instrument as authoritative.  ;)

No offense taken .. I was a performing piano major in college for four years in the 70/80's, and am well aware of the period correct instruments of the pieces I did at recitals. Bach's inventions were not even published during his lifetime, never the less they have been used for over two centuries in keyboard pedigogy for didactic puposes, with Bach repeatedly emphasizing the importance of developing a cantabile manner of playing, which excludes the use of a damper pedal in modern instruments. The other posters comment on effects used to cover up deficiencies in underlying synth engines reminded me of my students doing the same with the damper pedal .. and his comment and mine are both off topic you are correct .. it was immature of me to devolve with the other off topic comments in this thread i.e. digital vs. analog, Rev 2 vs. Peak, and I repent. I simply wanted to know just how isolated of an issue these faulty voice boards are as it will be very hard for me to have to box the synth up and ship it back due to an un-treated inguinal hernia, but after my post it immediately went to 'I sent it back and bought a Peak' to 'digital synths lack the depth of analog' to .. well where it is now completely off topic .. so again I apologize, and hope somebody from DSI can hop in this coming week and confirm its only a handful of voice boards that have had to be replaced .. there back on topic  ;)
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on September 17, 2017, 10:11:07 PM
How about getting back to the original topic, or one of us will have to cut up this discussion into several threads?

Personally, I find the last few comments to be very interesting and worthy of a new thread, but I doubt folks would have much more to say about it.
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: cloudswimmer on September 17, 2017, 11:19:43 PM
How about getting back to the original topic, or one of us will have to cut this up into several threads?

Personally, I find the last few comments to be very interesting and worthy of a new thread, but I doubt folks would have much more to say about it.

Ok sounds good to me, and again I apologize for my contribution. Ok ..... so for those that have swapped in new voice boards, how many screws do you have to remove to get at it? I assume you remove the wooden side panels, then turn the unit upside down and remove the rest of the screws?
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: jazzygb1 on September 18, 2017, 04:20:21 AM
Yes you have to remove the side panels which are held on by 3 philips screws.

Then you unscrew 8 philips screws on the rear of the case and then the front panel just lifts off.

If it's a 16 voice then inside the extra 8 voice board itself is just another two screws, so the whole thing is very simple and less than a 10 minute job.

If you have to swap out the main board (underneath the voice board), then it'll be a little more difficult & laborious as you'll have to remove cable connectors and unscrew the quarter inch jacks etc, but again it's relatively simple and I'd estimate replacing everything would take less than 30 minutes.
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on September 18, 2017, 06:27:08 AM
How about getting back to the original topic, or one of us will have to cut this up into several threads?

Personally, I find the last few comments to be very interesting and worthy of a new thread, but I doubt folks would have much more to say about it.

Ok sounds good to me, and again I apologize for my contribution.

No problem.  We all do it.
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Sinamsis on September 18, 2017, 07:19:30 AM
Yes you have to remove the side panels which are held on by 3 philips screws.

Then you unscrew 8 philips screws on the rear of the case and then the front panel just lifts off.

If it's a 16 voice then inside the extra 8 voice board itself is just another two screws, so the whole thing is very simple and less than a 10 minute job.

If you have to swap out the main board (underneath the voice board), then it'll be a little more difficult & laborious as you'll have to remove cable connectors and unscrew the quarter inch jacks etc, but again it's relatively simple and I'd estimate replacing everything would take less than 30 minutes.

Even the main board wasn't that difficult to remove, and I definitely think I did it in less than 30 minutes.  You do end up having to remove all the nuts from the input jacks.  That's where you could scrape the panel.  Also I find I never get them quite as tight as they were from the factory when reassembling.
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: cloudswimmer on September 18, 2017, 03:28:04 PM
Yes you have to remove the side panels which are held on by 3 philips screws.

Then you unscrew 8 philips screws on the rear of the case and then the front panel just lifts off.

If it's a 16 voice then inside the extra 8 voice board itself is just another two screws, so the whole thing is very simple and less than a 10 minute job.

If you have to swap out the main board (underneath the voice board), then it'll be a little more difficult & laborious as you'll have to remove cable connectors and unscrew the quarter inch jacks etc, but again it's relatively simple and I'd estimate replacing everything would take less than 30 minutes.

 You do end up having to remove all the nuts from the input jacks.  That's where you could scrape the panel.  Also I find I never get them quite as tight as they were from the factory when reassembling.

I guess the thing to do would be to find out what technique and tool manufacturing is using to tighten those nuts without scratching the panel. Perhaps a piece of clear page protectors .. cut a hole in it with a slit so it just barely slips over the jack, tighten the nut down with a quality socket, then remove the plastic and repeat on the next one.

Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: sangel on September 20, 2017, 02:44:29 PM
I'm being assisted by DSI to try and work out the problem, but I'm tempted to return for a refund whilst I still have the time to.

Really conflicted as in every other way I really, really like this synth.

After further investigation, here’s what I now know for certain…

1: This problem only occurs on oscillator 1, oscillator 2 seems to behave as expected.

2: it only happens on keys to the left of Middle C.

3: With the triangle shape selected the further down the keyboard you move, the more pronounced and dominant the erroneous sound is.

4: On a pulse wave shape Mod to 50% to be square, the problem is exacerbated to the point that certain notes don’t sound at all.

5: The pulse wave notes that don’t sound seem to be D3, D♭, B♭, G2, and D1.

6: And this is the big one…It seems to happen on every 16th note. By that I mean that if I repeatedly play any of the affected notes, the symptom will show itself on the 16th press of the key.

I’ve uploaded another video which more clearly shows the issues which can be viewed by clicking the link below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZaYN5lVmP4&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZaYN5lVmP4&feature=youtu.be)

PS: This happens on the effected keys whenever I have played 16 notes, so I do not have to play the same note repeatedly to produce the fault. I could for example play a 15 note solo on the upper part of the synth and if the 16th note I press is one of the lower effected keys it wouldn't sound/sound incorrectly.
So this issue has 'real world' implications and genuinely affects the playability, this isn't as issue that only occurs when the same note is played 16 consecutive times and if it was then it wouldn't be a problem.
Hey there, I have a similar issue from the middle C and left, osc1 (ALL WAVES) in my prophet 08 pe. Is there anybody else here that had similar issues, and if yes, how did you deal with them? I also had the volume/saw buzz difference every 9 voices...
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Propheteer on September 21, 2017, 04:17:29 PM
Often effects are used to mask or make up for deficiencies in the main synth engine

Or deficiencies in ones playing .. like a mediocre pianist using the sustain pedal on Bach 3 part inventions  ::)

Are you seriously equating the (over) use and band-aiding addition of more than a couple of FX on synthesizers with a sustain pedal on a piano, and then rolling your eyes at me for saying FX often bandaided over an inadequate synth engine (and having owned almost 100 synths I can assure you in many cases that is true though mostly on digital synths). Weird. Also I wasn't talking abou spec or engine depth (of digital) jesus I've owned and loved a ton of digital synths, still have them, I just don't rate VAs or Hybrids, I hate their sound frankly, they all have a simliar plastic tone and everyone who buys one tries to make 'analog sounds' with them and they grate on my ears, if doing what they excell at (digital explorations) then great, just don't hold it up to a rev 2 or any analog VCO or DCO and expect people like myself to not point out you are NOT getting the same analog feel/sound/mojo out of those digital oscs no matter how cool the analog filter. It's as plain as day to those with decent hearing left!

Piano wise, I play the piano too and have for years, I sure as hell appreciate the pedals, not sure at all what that had to do with sacrificing LFOS for tacked on FX on DIGITAL oscs, context escapes me sorry, also not sure why you came at me like that when I was basically telling the other guy to put a sock in it about his peak and get back to the novation forums cos we are ACTUAL owners trying to sort an issue, one that while important doesn't actually kill my love for this great instrument in any way. It really does sound great, even for DCO, in fact it has a refinement often lacking in the many VCOs I've owned, which are good for their thing, here we have a very well rounded instrument, stable, flexible and capable of some beautiful sounds.

To that other guy, please I'm so bored of you talking about the peak (btw I was actually thinking more of the Deepmind 12 in my comment about overuse of FX on a sub-par analog synth engine as I clearly wrote, the peak wasn't about the FX but more about the general generic plastic tone of digital oscs) in a specific PROPHET REV 2 board and thread pertaining to an analog synth called the rev 2. Please stop talking about your hybrid digital osc wannabe analog synth here cos it's making us all go off topic. Not sure what you expected from certified rev2 owners by coming in here saying peak is somehow god's gift to synths while berating the REV2 when they are different types of synths and for many of us we are just not interested, got it? If all I wanted was 3 oscs or tons of power I'd go software and get 100 oscs or w/e. I wanted analog as does anyone else who chose the rev2 or they'd probably have spent less for a lesser sound. I'm well over my VA/Hybrid phase. Digital oscs leave me cold when attempting to mimic analog, even more so when pushed through analog filters ending up sounding like plastic. I like digital synths to not try to mimick analog.

Could we get back to the IMPORTANT topic of REV 2 osc issues, some of us are trying to actually work out how to proceed, maybe you could pop along to the peak forum seeing how you don't even own a rev2 any more and seem to be here just to wind people up and talk about how great a digital osc synth is for your needs. Novation... good luck with that build quality, have had a few of those synths in the past, they won't last. DSI are like rolls royce next to them!

Oh and I've only just read that everyone else agreed to get back on topic, so am sorry for me ANSWERING these points as I've only just got back here after some time away from home. I won't mention that stupid peak again or reply about it. We need to focus on this issue as I'm supposed to be making a call on whether it's worth them sending me the new board or not (with same pulse but better triangle) soon!

Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on September 21, 2017, 04:59:47 PM
As part of an effort to cool off here and again get back on track, I'd encourage whoever is interested to continue the discussion on the Novation Peak thread.  Unfortunately, the present comments were too irritated to be used as a basis for the new thread.

http://forum.davesmithinstruments.com/index.php/topic,1866.new.html#new
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: cloudswimmer on September 22, 2017, 02:38:00 PM
Ok now your trolling for an off topic response and I'm not going to play. I apologized twice and repented a page back for contributing to the off topic devolution of this thread, and brought it back on topic. I've got a Rev 2 16 from Sweetwater arriving this coming Monday. There is a new report today of a new owner on gearslutz having the same issue being reported in this thread. Its a bit worrying, but I'm not going to sweat it should mine act the same. I'll simply return it to Sweetwater and move on (probably will get a P06 and OB6) So I will not be monitoring this particular thread anymore, but I sincerely wish the best of luck to all you who have chose to stick it out and wait for a possible solution. Peace

   
Often effects are used to mask or make up for deficiencies in the main synth engine

Or deficiencies in ones playing .. like a mediocre pianist using the sustain pedal on Bach 3 part inventions  ::)

Are you seriously equating the (over) use and band-aiding addition of more than a couple of FX on synthesizers with a sustain pedal on a piano, and then rolling your eyes at me for saying FX often bandaided over an inadequate synth engine (and having owned almost 100 synths I can assure you in many cases that is true though mostly on digital synths). Weird. Also I wasn't talking abou spec or engine depth (of digital) jesus I've owned and loved a ton of digital synths, still have them, I just don't rate VAs or Hybrids, I hate their sound frankly, they all have a simliar plastic tone and everyone who buys one tries to make 'analog sounds' with them and they grate on my ears, if doing what they excell at (digital explorations) then great, just don't hold it up to a rev 2 or any analog VCO or DCO and expect people like myself to not point out you are NOT getting the same analog feel/sound/mojo out of those digital oscs no matter how cool the analog filter. It's as plain as day to those with decent hearing left!

Piano wise, I play the piano too and have for years, I sure as hell appreciate the pedals, not sure at all what that had to do with sacrificing LFOS for tacked on FX on DIGITAL oscs, context escapes me sorry, also not sure why you came at me like that when I was basically telling the other guy to put a sock in it about his peak and get back to the novation forums cos we are ACTUAL owners trying to sort an issue, one that while important doesn't actually kill my love for this great instrument in any way. It really does sound great, even for DCO, in fact it has a refinement often lacking in the many VCOs I've owned, which are good for their thing, here we have a very well rounded instrument, stable, flexible and capable of some beautiful sounds.

To that other guy, please I'm so bored of you talking about the peak (btw I was actually thinking more of the Deepmind 12 in my comment about overuse of FX on a sub-par analog synth engine as I clearly wrote, the peak wasn't about the FX but more about the general generic plastic tone of digital oscs) in a specific PROPHET REV 2 board and thread pertaining to an analog synth called the rev 2. Please stop talking about your hybrid digital osc wannabe analog synth here cos it's making us all go off topic. Not sure what you expected from certified rev2 owners by coming in here saying peak is somehow god's gift to synths while berating the REV2 when they are different types of synths and for many of us we are just not interested, got it? If all I wanted was 3 oscs or tons of power I'd go software and get 100 oscs or w/e. I wanted analog as does anyone else who chose the rev2 or they'd probably have spent less for a lesser sound. I'm well over my VA/Hybrid phase. Digital oscs leave me cold when attempting to mimic analog, even more so when pushed through analog filters ending up sounding like plastic. I like digital synths to not try to mimick analog.

Could we get back to the IMPORTANT topic of REV 2 osc issues, some of us are trying to actually work out how to proceed, maybe you could pop along to the peak forum seeing how you don't even own a rev2 any more and seem to be here just to wind people up and talk about how great a digital osc synth is for your needs. Novation... good luck with that build quality, have had a few of those synths in the past, they won't last. DSI are like rolls royce next to them!

Oh and I've only just read that everyone else agreed to get back on topic, so am sorry for me ANSWERING these points as I've only just got back here after some time away from home. I won't mention that stupid peak again or reply about it. We need to focus on this issue as I'm supposed to be making a call on whether it's worth them sending me the new board or not (with same pulse but better triangle) soon!
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: sangel on September 22, 2017, 03:26:37 PM
Guys, as I already mentioned, I experience the same problem with a prophet 08 PE. I would like to ask if anybody here got the problem resolved by fixing the synth (either on their own with DSI guidelines, or by DSI), OR, did DSI replace all of those synths. I bought mine from Thomann almost a year ago. If they need to replace it, I am afraid it's not going to be possible since it's out of production...
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: jazzygb1 on September 22, 2017, 05:47:22 PM
Guys, as I already mentioned, I experience the same problem with a prophet 08 PE. I would like to ask if anybody here got the problem resolved by fixing the synth (either on their own with DSI guidelines, or by DSI), OR, did DSI replace all of those synths. I bought mine from Thomann almost a year ago. If they need to replace it, I am afraid it's not going to be possible since it's out of production...

DSI will be able to help you.
The Prophet 08 has only recently been replaced so I doubt there will be any problems getting it fixed.
Just contact them at support@davesmithinstruments.com.
Good luck.
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on September 22, 2017, 07:47:32 PM
I've got a Rev 2 16 from Sweetwater arriving this coming Monday. There is a new report today of a new owner on gearslutz having the same issue being reported in this thread. Its a bit worrying, but I'm not going to sweat it should mine act the same. I'll simply return it to Sweetwater and move on (probably will get a P06 and OB6)

Cloudswimmer, I certainly wouldn't discourage you from doing what you think best, but don't you think it's rather soon to give up on the Rev2?  Presuming you like the instrument itself, why not persevere until you have a flawless unit?  The vast majority of Rev2 owners are happy with there instruments.  The problems are the exception, not the norm.
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: cloudswimmer on September 24, 2017, 02:08:52 PM
I've got a Rev 2 16 from Sweetwater arriving this coming Monday. There is a new report today of a new owner on gearslutz having the same issue being reported in this thread. Its a bit worrying, but I'm not going to sweat it should mine act the same. I'll simply return it to Sweetwater and move on (probably will get a P06 and OB6)

Cloudswimmer, I certainly wouldn't discourage you from doing what you think best, but don't you think it's rather soon to give up on the Rev2?  Presuming you like the instrument itself, why not persevere until you have a flawless unit?  The vast majority of Rev2 owners are happy with there instruments.  The problems are the exception, not the norm.

Hi Sacred Synthesis, it was your Prophet 08 work on youtube that inspired me to try a Prophet Rev 2, great work and very similar in style to my own. Yes perhaps I will ride it out .. thankyou for your encouragement and youtube videos ✝
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on September 24, 2017, 04:05:46 PM
Thanks, Cloudswimmer.  That's right; I only mean to encourage you to be patient.  The P'08 is such a superb musical instrument, and the Rev2 is even better.  In the beginning, I had some serious problems with my first two P'08's (erratic encoders), but I didn't give up on DSI.  In the end, they wonderfully resolved the issue with the potentiometer edition.  I'm so glad I persisted with what is now my favorite synthesizer.  So, don't quit until you've held a perfect Rev2 in your hands.
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Propheteer on September 25, 2017, 03:16:14 AM
Ok now your trolling for an off topic response and I'm not going to play.


Excuse me? YOU trolled ME you hypocrite! I hadn't even addressed you until you quoted me and laid into me about sustain pedals (actually you were so vague I'm not even sure if you were actually agreeing with me or attempting to take the piss out of me for daring to state synths sometimes pile on too many FX?). Had you made that clearer I may even have overlooked it but the eyerolling emoticon seemed aimed at me and you wonder why you got the response you did? Some of my venom was aimed at peak boy with his 'don't make a fool of yourself' when it's clearly he who is the fool if he truly believes any digital osc synth can sound more analog (ergo "better" in this context) than a DCO or VCO synth. I pity his ears if he truly can't hear how insipid those peak pads and bass are, dear god it's like a soft synth from 5 years ago stuck through a half decent (only half mind) filter. I assume he's just trying to justify his switch to that nasty hunk of junk from the glorious rev 2 because he misses rev2 more than he claims (or why would he still be here?).. anyway, my annoyance should have been more directed at him but I'm sick of talking to him, HE's the troll not me.

I was in this thread first, talking only about the osc issue and trying to find how hard it was to get a good board/fix. YOU entered out the blue and started stirring things up along with peak-boy. I wasn't here last week to reply at the time so had to after the fact, not my fault you couldn't keep your anecdotes to yourself and then got a response. As for trolling for off-topic responses? Believe me I just wish you and peak boy had not gone there in the first place, it's hard enough trying to get to the bottom of this without daft - way off topic - piano talk or plastic hybrid synth talk.

YOU don't own a rev 2 (yet), peak boy no longer owns one, *I* do so please wind yer neck in and stop telling me what I was trying to do (or not) when I'm merely replying in kind to a pair of weirdos who seemed to find fault in me stating the FACT that some synths tend to overdose on FX to mask engine deficiencies (and that really is a fact). Why on earth you took that tone with me to begin with I'll never know, I was fully behind REV2 and trying to point out to peak boy why the 2 synths in question (and even DM12) are all different things for different people so it's a moot point, you wade in with your unwanted take on the subject then basically tell me I'm trolling?

Please don't respond to me again.
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Propheteer on September 25, 2017, 03:23:43 AM
Right back on topic and pretty pisssed off now by these noobs telling me what I'm trying to do or not do, all I want is a fixed synth and I'll leave, pretty simple.

I have the option to accept a new board, but have been told it still has the same pulse issue but better/non triangle issue. My concern is the time/expense of returning the original board + fitting it only to find that it's still got a problem (pulse) that many others seem to have confirmed they don't have! My issue with this is if the board they tested does have that, and other boards don't why don't DSI just get more boards in until they find a perfect one then send me that? Isn't that the point of support to do the pre-testing and find a good one, or find the problem and fix it, and then help the customer? I'm really in no mood to playing synth lottery with returns yet I do really LOVE this synth, it's one of the best I've ever had and extremely useful (and I far prefer it to the Prophet 6 and OB6 even if it's only DCO it's just a much better overal synthesizer and does still sound great), I've basically just buried my mum after a few months of much heartache, inquests and other stuff.. some of her money left to me bought this synth which I've considered as a 'gift' as she was always supportive of my music, I don't want to end up with a bad unit that people think is broken in future. And given the above I've very little patience left with forum eejits badgering me and quoting me then telling me I'm the one trolling so please zip it or you'll discover the meaning of real trolling.


DSI are you capable of finding a mainboard that exhibits none of these issues or can you finally confirm that ALL rev2s do in fact have the pulse issue and that it may be correctable in software? I'm stuck in limbo on this and its dragging on now and feel I've been left to make a hard choice when really I just want a 100% correct mainboard like many others appear to have.

Thanks
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: gernotreininger on September 25, 2017, 03:53:25 AM
I contacted support cause the pulse issue and have been told that it is no issue at all and everything is fine.
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Propheteer on September 25, 2017, 03:56:21 AM
I contacted support cause the pulse issue and have been told that it is no issue at all and everything is fine.

Ok, so some in this thread said they didn't have the issue, this is what's causing an 'issue' because if some don't have it and some do, then those with rev2s that do will have 'lesser' rev2s that are seen as faulty in times to come (much like Prophet 08s with dodgy encoders were). Not good for resale or even if keeping it and knowing others have a perfect one.

Could it be that they ALL have it really and those that said they didn't just didn't test it fully? hmmm. TBH I wouldn't mind that so much because it's not a killer issue at all in most cases, though the triangle fault could be more often.

And are you fine with that answer from DSI? The pulse thing seems like a non-issue in many many cases but for others who had it worse it certainly wasn't (when more than one key/voice didn't even sound)
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: gernotreininger on September 25, 2017, 06:06:51 AM
I am new to Synthesis and the Rev 2 is my first hardware Synth so I don't know how things work or should work and I cannot compare. So yes I am fine with the answer and when creating patches I never had the issue. It just happens when I init the patch select pulse and turn the shape full left or right. So no problem under normal conditions.
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Propheteer on September 25, 2017, 06:36:24 AM
I am new to Synthesis and the Rev 2 is my first hardware Synth so I don't know how things work or should work and I cannot compare. So yes I am fine with the answer and when creating patches I never had the issue. It just happens when I init the patch select pulse and turn the shape full left or right. So no problem under normal conditions.

Thanks, am glad you confirmed that you have the issue at the extremes of shape mod, as those of us with the problem all seem to. I'd love to set up a poll on who has that issue and who doesn't so we can see if it's like 100 to 1 good to bad ratio (so we know we should/deserve a working board) or if it's basically everyone with the pulse 'issue'. And your triangle is ok (pretty much uniform sound throughout all the voices)? Maybe it's worth the board swap then for that but I'll be paying return postage from uk to us on an expensive part, I really didn't factor that in when I bought this synth to get on with music!
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on September 25, 2017, 12:06:31 PM
Fellas -

Once again, it's abundantly clear that a couple of you guys have a strong disagreement.  That's fine.  Discuss your differing perspectives here to your hearts' content.  We all do it and with passion.  But now the comments are getting increasingly insulting and the language is getting rude.  Cool off, come to your senses, discuss and disagree as gentlemen, or else, avoid each other.  Otherwise, your worst posts will be edited or deleted.  Nobody wants to read this sort of rubbish.
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Propheteer on September 25, 2017, 12:26:44 PM
(https://s26.postimg.org/404e4xcqx/dsitest.jpg)

Couldn't be any clearer Mr Mod. I'll no longer engage anyone who tries to bait me or talks about other stuff in this thread. Simple stuff really.
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on September 25, 2017, 12:45:54 PM
Couldn't be any clearer Mr Mod. I'll no longer engage anyone who tries to bait me or talks about other stuff in this thread. Simple stuff really.

That's reasonable enough.  I have no desire to spoil your discussion with an intervention.  Post away.  And I'm very sorry to hear about your mother, Propheteer.
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: jazzygb1 on September 25, 2017, 01:27:25 PM
(https://s26.postimg.org/404e4xcqx/dsitest.jpg)

Couldn't be any clearer Mr Mod. I'll no longer engage anyone who tries to bait me or talks about other stuff in this thread. Simple stuff really.

The triangle sounding like a saw...that's a faulty voice chip.

If that's what you have then you'll need to either get it fixed or (as I did), get a replacement REV2.

The Pulse wave not sounding at the extreme values is normal (even happens on my Prophet 12 which has digital oscillators).

If your only issue is the pulse wave not sounding at the extremes of a shape mod, then your REV2 is not faulty.

It's an analogue synth so not every triangle voice will sound identical, but it should still sound like a triangle.

So in summary....

if your only problem is with the Pulse wave when shape Modded then it's working normally and is not faulty.

If your REV2 has a voice where a triangle sounds like a saw it is not working properly and needs to be fixed or replaced.

PS: For what it's worth the serial number of my replacement REV2 only differed from my original REV2 by one digit, so I don't believe there's a 'bad batch' as such.

The only issue I've had with my replacement REV2 is it suddenly going out of tune, but this was resolved by recalibrating the wheels and (so far at least) has been fine since.

Hope this helps.

Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: jazzygb1 on September 25, 2017, 02:50:54 PM
Actually Propheteer, after reading back earlier posts I'd definitely say that your REV2 falls into the faulty category and needs to be fixed or replaced.
You need to raise it officially with DSI support and I'm sure they will (as they did with me) ask some questions and diagnose the cause and then hopefully arrange a replacement REV2, or a replacement board (whatever is easiest/best).

Good luck!
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Propheteer on September 25, 2017, 03:05:28 PM
thanks guys and thanks about my mum.

Yes mine is def faulty, but the mainboard that tech got into send to me didn't sound 100% on triangle anyway.. tbh without having it in front of me and testing it myself it seems hard to get exact definition of what 'a bit off' or 'as expected' means, my problem is if I have the new board I have to send the old one back (at my own expense) from UK to the US, but if I try to swap with my retailer I have to wait around a possible 2 more days (collection and then new one) when am quite busy with music and don't like sitting in silence for couriers. And even then there's no guarantee that swap wouldn't have the issue or other issues so I guess all I can do is go for the board and eat the costs of returning the other one (even though none of this is my fault). As said, I felt stuck between a rock and a hard place with no 100% guaranteed fixed board to be sent to me, tech did describe it in detail to his credit but, I dunno, DSI themselves should know if they are sending out a perfect or 'as expected' board to me rather than me have to do mind gymnastics to decide on the best course of action or if I'll end up with a still futzed board just not quite as bad...

was very busy last week so didn't have time to even think about it til today really. And yes, one of my triangle voices (same exact voice as the pulse has issues with) tends to sound more like a saw when set up as per the test.

I was writing on here (more than support @ DSI) still trying to work out what the deal is with everyone's rev2 and what is acceptable as 'normal' but does seem everyone has the pulse issue to some degree. I hope any replacement board doesn't increase the damage from the one voice to two voices + cost me money too. If the synth wasn't so damn good I'd have just returned it by now, but I can't, it's a cracker! :)


*and most definitely sounds and reacts like a full bodied, rich analog synth, with the best/liveliest DCOs I've ever personally heard (using the new slop), can get very close to a VCO richness, though not rawness, which is fine as I don't always want that or need that in most cases.
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Gerry Havinga on September 25, 2017, 11:27:27 PM
thanks guys and thanks about my mum.

Yes mine is def faulty, but the mainboard that tech got into send to me didn't sound 100% on triangle anyway.. tbh without having it in front of me and testing it myself it seems hard to get exact definition of what 'a bit off' or 'as expected' means, my problem is if I have the new board I have to send the old one back (at my own expense) from UK to the US, but if I try to swap with my retailer I have to wait around a possible 2 more days (collection and then new one) when am quite busy with music and don't like sitting in silence for couriers. And even then there's no guarantee that swap wouldn't have the issue or other issues so I guess all I can do is go for the board and eat the costs of returning the other one (even though none of this is my fault). As said, I felt stuck between a rock and a hard place with no 100% guaranteed fixed board to be sent to me, tech did describe it in detail to his credit but, I dunno, DSI themselves should know if they are sending out a perfect or 'as expected' board to me rather than me have to do mind gymnastics to decide on the best course of action or if I'll end up with a still futzed board just not quite as bad...

was very busy last week so didn't have time to even think about it til today really. And yes, one of my triangle voices (same exact voice as the pulse has issues with) tends to sound more like a saw when set up as per the test.

I was writing on here (more than support @ DSI) still trying to work out what the deal is with everyone's rev2 and what is acceptable as 'normal' but does seem everyone has the pulse issue to some degree. I hope any replacement board doesn't increase the damage from the one voice to two voices + cost me money too. If the synth wasn't so damn good I'd have just returned it by now, but I can't, it's a cracker! :)


*and most definitely sounds and reacts like a full bodied, rich analog synth, with the best/liveliest DCOs I've ever personally heard (using the new slop), can get very close to a VCO richness, though not rawness, which is fine as I don't always want that or need that in most cases.

@Propheteer I am also sorry to hear about your mother, my condolences.

I own an 8 voice Rev 2 and going through the test(s) described earlier in this threat have not been able to detect, by ear, any of the issues in relation to the Saw and Saw-Tri. I did notice at the very far end of the ranges for the Pulse setting my Rev 2 starts to show similar behavior as described earlier. But I also believe this (at the far end both side of the scale) is normal behavior.
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Propheteer on September 26, 2017, 03:18:10 AM
thanks guys and thanks about my mum.

Yes mine is def faulty, but the mainboard that tech got into send to me didn't sound 100% on triangle anyway.. tbh without having it in front of me and testing it myself it seems hard to get exact definition of what 'a bit off' or 'as expected' means, my problem is if I have the new board I have to send the old one back (at my own expense) from UK to the US, but if I try to swap with my retailer I have to wait around a possible 2 more days (collection and then new one) when am quite busy with music and don't like sitting in silence for couriers. And even then there's no guarantee that swap wouldn't have the issue or other issues so I guess all I can do is go for the board and eat the costs of returning the other one (even though none of this is my fault). As said, I felt stuck between a rock and a hard place with no 100% guaranteed fixed board to be sent to me, tech did describe it in detail to his credit but, I dunno, DSI themselves should know if they are sending out a perfect or 'as expected' board to me rather than me have to do mind gymnastics to decide on the best course of action or if I'll end up with a still futzed board just not quite as bad...

was very busy last week so didn't have time to even think about it til today really. And yes, one of my triangle voices (same exact voice as the pulse has issues with) tends to sound more like a saw when set up as per the test.

I was writing on here (more than support @ DSI) still trying to work out what the deal is with everyone's rev2 and what is acceptable as 'normal' but does seem everyone has the pulse issue to some degree. I hope any replacement board doesn't increase the damage from the one voice to two voices + cost me money too. If the synth wasn't so damn good I'd have just returned it by now, but I can't, it's a cracker! :)


*and most definitely sounds and reacts like a full bodied, rich analog synth, with the best/liveliest DCOs I've ever personally heard (using the new slop), can get very close to a VCO richness, though not rawness, which is fine as I don't always want that or need that in most cases.

@Propheteer I am also sorry to hear about your mother, my condolences.

I own an 8 voice Rev 2 and going through the test(s) described earlier in this threat have not been able to detect, by ear, any of the issues in relation to the Saw and Saw-Tri. I did notice at the very far end of the ranges for the Pulse setting my Rev 2 starts to show similar behavior as described earlier. But I also believe this (at the far end both side of the scale) is normal behavior.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: cloudswimmer on September 28, 2017, 07:17:01 PM
Ok two days in now with mine and so far so good. The synth sounds a lot like my Oberheim DCO synths on steroids. Will report back if anything pops up. And I too offer my condolences Propheteer.
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Propheteer on September 29, 2017, 10:03:09 AM
Cheers Cloudwimmer.

Peace.

Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Propheteer on October 21, 2017, 08:26:37 PM
Was told, hopefully good news, that this is indeed fixable in software now. In fact I didn't even get a new board in the end because of this (thankfully). Not sure on an ETA for the new firmware or if they can really fix all issues but I had a feeling it was just some offsets wrong for shape mod on certain voices causing the anomolies, hope it was something that simple.

Anyone else heard from DSI support about new firmware correcting this and if so have you been sent it yet?

Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: sangel on October 22, 2017, 01:34:09 AM
Was told, hopefully good news, that this is indeed fixable in software now. In fact I didn't even get a new board in the end because of this (thankfully). Not sure on an ETA for the new firmware or if they can really fix all issues but I had a feeling it was just some offsets wrong for shape mod on certain voices causing the anomolies, hope it was something that simple.

Anyone else heard from DSI support about new firmware correcting this and if so have you been sent it yet?

I sent my prophet 08 back to Thomann and they checked it.. tbey just did a reset and a filter calibration and the problem went away.. I read however from another person in this thread that it’s possible that the problem comes back...
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Propheteer on October 22, 2017, 04:39:56 AM
Yeah that's just the in-menu calibration though? that we have all tried? A new firmware should (hopefully) fix it at a fundamental level, at least that's what support told me recently after originally going to send me a new board.

I still have hope... for now!
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: kris on October 24, 2017, 02:32:15 PM
Hi all,

with drops of sweat on my forehead I worked through this thread tonight after I discovered my Rev 2 16-voice had the described triangle discontinuity (triangle with 0% shapemod still sound a bit like a saw on some of the voices) problem on 4 of the 16 voices, on both Osc1 and Osc2.

I contacted support, and they confirmed (within 14 minutes of me sending the email - praise where praise must be) that there was an issue in the calibration routine within the firmwares prior to 1.1.0.

I installed 1.1.0, and the problem was gone immediately even without running the Osc calibration as they had suggested.

Happy, I love my Rev2!

And DSI!
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: dsetto on October 24, 2017, 09:26:22 PM
Good news, kris. Thank you for reporting!
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Propheteer on October 24, 2017, 10:43:21 PM
<snip>Same on triangle, the 'bit of saw' seems related to shape mod. the same voice/note that acts up in pulse is also the one acting up on triangle (when shape mod is at minimum). So in triangle/basic program init (shape mode zero) any out of calibration voices will have a bit of 'saw', and with pulse that same voice when shape mod is at max will have a collapsed wave (no sound). Not sure if this will help anyone or DSI to pinpoint if something can be done in software but it seems it's a calibration issue outside of the power of the built in calibration menu (so a FW fix may update the calibration routine to correct for this shape mod issue on random voices?)


Some did say I was probably wrong when I hypothesised that it should be fixable in software, back when I posted this, am glad I wasn't!  8)

That said, I've not even updated to 1.1 yet (didn't even realise it was released as they said they would send me it so assumed it wasn't as they hadn't) so thanks to the poster above for tipping us off. Hopefully it fixes mine too...
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Propheteer on October 25, 2017, 12:47:48 AM
well... thought it was too good to be true :(

I've updated to 1.1, I tried first without re-calibrating (still had the issue) then re-calibrated (still had the issue).

The issue has changed it seems, though it's been a while since I last tested.

For me the same ONE VOICE remains different. Now the triangle going more 'saw like' doesn't happen on repeated key press (it seems to never get to that voice as if its not cycling through the whole set of voices anymore but just using the first one), but play a chord with that 'basic program' and lo and behold there's that one brighter voice AGAIN.

With shape mod adjust to full, that one voice now is far DULLER than the rest (as if it has gone around the range and looped back on itself to duller rather than brighter).

That same voice when I hold it and switch to pulse is indeed still a problematic voice, it simply doesn't sound at all (when shape mod is at full)

So, for me it seems the new 1.1 FW has done absolutely nothing at all towards fixing this. Am gutted as had a lot of hope this would finally put that issue to bed so I could stop worrying about it in the long term.


Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: DavidDever on October 25, 2017, 01:26:34 AM
well... thought it was too good to be true :(

I've updated to 1.1, I tried first without re-calibrating (still had the issue) then re-calibrated (still had the issue).

The issue has changed it seems, though it's been a while since I last tested.

For me the same ONE VOICE remains different. Now the triangle going more 'saw like' doesn't happen on repeated key press (it seems to never get to that voice as if its not cycling through the whole set of voices anymore but just using the first one), but play a chord with that 'basic program' and lo and behold there's that one brighter voice AGAIN.

With shape mod adjust to full, that one voice now is far DULLER than the rest (as if it has gone around the range and looped back on itself to duller rather than brighter).

That same voice when I hold it and switch to pulse is indeed still a problematic voice, it simply doesn't sound at all (when shape mod is at full)

So, for me it seems the new 1.1 FW has done absolutely nothing at all towards fixing this. Am gutted as had a lot of hope this would finally put that issue to bed so I could stop worrying about it in the long term.

Install the new board, then–if it's busted, then this should fix it.

If the new board is faulty, then send the unit back / sell it / walk away.

Chances are that you're hearing this because there is something amiss in the first place (could have been a faulty / wrong-valued SMT component, for all you know).

The root cause, on the other hand, is not your problem, but the manufacturer's.
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Propheteer on October 25, 2017, 02:34:05 AM
install WHAT board?

 I don't have a board! I would rather have avoided having to fit a board, as well as having to return my board (from the UK to the US at my own expense!).

There was no board sent, I was waiting to decide on if it was worth it when I was told by DSI that they had fixed it in software so no need to send me a board now.

needless to say, had I got another 'new' mainboard sitting here, or had been sitting here all these weeks I'd have already fitted it and tested it, I'm not lazy (just busy).

Of course it's their problem, I still hope it IS fixable in software mainly because I can't be arsed to waste time dismantling a brand new synth, and posting another board back to the US (esp as I was told the 'new board' they had there also showed some issues on the pulse but not the triangle). These kinds of things are usually not expected when you buy 'brand new' and when you pay over a grand for something.
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Propheteer on October 26, 2017, 02:38:56 AM
ok....

at last. Good news. Seems that although I updated, synth rebooted itself, and I ran the calibration (once). It didn't appear to fix it at all. I was going to do a video today to send to DSI and thought maybe I'll run calibration one more time and bingo!

It's now working ok :) It looks like it must have needed switching off after calibration and on again or needed it run twice for some reason (probably the former but I just tested after calibration yesterday without rebooting - duh).

so the triangle and the pulse issue seems to have gone, and now the pulse (all voices) on full shape mode go virtually uniformly silent which is a good thing. I like PWM that doesn't hold back and can collapse down like that.

I'll see if it holds up over the next few days but can't see why not now. Has anyone else in this thread updated to 1.1? Hopefully it fixes everyone's problem and we can all get back to raving about the virtues of this great synth instead of this gremlin.

Thanks DSI.
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Sleep of Reason on October 26, 2017, 09:21:55 AM
I don't get why people keep saying 1.1 did anything for them...

Quote from: Robot Heart
No additional changes have been made other than incrementing the version number.
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Propheteer on October 26, 2017, 10:08:41 AM
I don't get why people keep saying 1.1 did anything for them...

Quote from: Robot Heart
No additional changes have been made other than incrementing the version number.

From my email with DSI last night

Quote
OS 1.1 was made to address the issue as you've noted others that have had similar issues have had it fixed with this. Shoot me a link to the video once you have it up.

Best regards,

Mark
Dave Smith Instruments

Maybe because it has? I wouldn't say it had if it hadn't. And do note I even asked him in email if 1.1 was actually made to 'do anything' and he confirmed it was. This morning I did as above and it worked. I can't argue with fact regardless of why or what they told you on here.

MAYBE they just didn't want to shout about the issue as it was only affecting a small number of users (or at least only a small number of users were aware), but please don't insinuate I'm a moron who's affected by placebo, the damn thing worked after updating and a power cycle.
Title: Re: Oscillator Issues
Post by: Robot Heart on October 26, 2017, 10:55:40 AM
Glad the OS solved your issue and you're back to working condition!

To clear things up, the fix in question was already implemented in 1.0.9.4, as mentioned in bug #9 of the release notes in the same thread where you quoted me. Here it is for reference. (http://forum.davesmithinstruments.com/index.php/topic,1531.0.html)

What Mark meant by saying 1.1 addressed the issue is that "we've addressed the issue in our official OS release". Not "we've done something extra between OS 1.0.9.4 and OS 1.1 but we're not owning up to it". I can assure you, nothing has changed between 1.0.9.4 and 1.1 except for the version number. Period.

As this issue has been deemed resolved, we are locking this thread. Please contact our dedicated support channel if you need further clarification on anything discussed herein: support (at) davesmithinstruments.com