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SEQUENTIAL/DSI => Prophet => Prophet Rev2 => Topic started by: dsetto on May 22, 2017, 12:13:44 PM

Title: Ok, talk me through it
Post by: dsetto on May 22, 2017, 12:13:44 PM
Getting jitters on the Prophet Rev 2. I'm going for my first deep knobby poly. Waited forever, figuring to go high end once ready. To me high end is 2-3k. (I respect the stuff beyond that. But not for me, today.)

Rev 2 announcement, and my readiness aligned, so I knew this is it. So, now that it's announced, getting my first jitters of commitment. I'm not a buy & sell guy. I buy, and if I have an issue with it, I'll keep at it until I get it to serve me. And when I encounter "fundamental" problems, I'll almost always work around them, to serve me.

Buy both isn't an answer for me. Yeah, maybe in a bunch, bunch of years I can buy another one. But I don't care about then.

I have a cursory but solid sense of the landscape. I knew rev 2 was for me, without hearing a demo. Specs plus a few key questions answered was what I needed.

Here's what I've got it boiled down to:
1. Prophet Rev 2.
the niggle:
2. OB-6
3. what poly does Moog have up its sleeve?

---
Fundamentals why r2 is 1 for me.
- 5 octaves, bi-timbral, 16 voices, synthesis to captivate and inspire me for a lifetime (relative to my pace), primitive sequencing, 4 outs, nice keybed
- I am happy to get all that above, with "acceptable" tone (knowing that every tone, hi-fi, mid-fi, and lo-fi has value). I am being knowingly harsh using "acceptable"; but you all have to get what I'm getting at. (I'm a big DSI fan.)

Why the OB-6 niggles me? (I don't even know what niggles is.) Tone. That timbre. That sound. I like it. (I fully appreciate, respect the Prophet 6 sound, capability.) I'm in a season where I tend towards telecaster raw, instead of stratocaster wide range, versatility, and smooth-rounded. (Not to say OB6 can't do smooth.)

Dave, thanks! This is a conundrum of riches! One not available 10 years ago, 8 years ago. Thank YOU! and your team, DSI! Seriously. Anyone who likes polys should show at least respect for this fact. This isn't 'market speak'. This is market speaks. Look at market, look at past 10 years. it speaks. But, I digress.

So, OB-6. I like it's tone. Yeah. That will not change. Everything I've said about Rev 2 remains. The one thing I said about OB6 remains. Not really reconcilable. Right? Yeah, I can do things to approximate the feeling of what I'm talking about on the Rev 2.

In fact, that alone is a wonderful creative energy. And I suppose there's my answer, right? ... Satisfy my fundamentals. ... Ouch! What is the fundamental? For me, rhythm. But that's the same in both, right? I am talking about hyper-sensitive latency response. My gut tells me, there's a chance it could be better in the OB6. And only spending a fair amount of time on both, might I detect it. AND, I know, it's so small that it's a pursuit not necessary.

Sometimes I value tone. Sometimes I value features. For my personal needs, I think I can go a lot further with the rev 2. I want a one-keyboard performance solution. I'm a piano player. The rev 2 will simply get me further along. ... Splits are practical. Two sounds. One board. One setup. My studio is tiny. (Which can be a plus with the 4-octave high class approach.)

Ok, so, I'll stop with that, on that.

And then, there's the "what will" on the Moog poly. But, one can only wait so long. In the end, DSI's got a solid handle on poly. (understatement) Can't go wrong with that track record.

I'm begging for your thoughts on my pre-rev 2 purchase jitters. Fully appreciative for your time.

P.S. Is listening to OB-6 demos dumb?! That + a coffee wrote this post.
P.P.S. I'm currently not pursuing modules. (I.e., adding an OB-6 module to rev 2 is smart. But not for me, for now.)
Title: Re: Ok, talk me through it
Post by: dsetto on May 22, 2017, 12:34:08 PM
P.P.P.S.

If I had to pick one thing I am trying to satisfy in this purchase, it's a programmable synthesizer that I can pour my piano playing into.*

On this front, in a weird way, everything I wrote above still applies. Rev 2 wins on features front. All those things I wrote I can use to better emulate my personal piano playing experience.

I recall encountering a piano-like timbre with the OB-6 that I had never encountered before; and I decided that was something specific to the OB-6 timbre. It was a resonance related matter. A harmonic collection thing. I think. In the lower mid range.

But -- honestly, I prefer emulating the playing experience rather than an emulative timbre. And 4 deeper-programmable, layered oscs (or 6 with subs) and 8 voices, & 5 octaves is gonna get me closer, on that front. Or, 2 (+ sub) with 16 voices, does it in a timbrally simpler way. (Those extra oscs can get me soundboard soup analogies.)

I think the answer is ...
don't listen to OB-6 demos. I think I was right to make a decision without listening to OB-6 demos.

* What I like about synthesizers is that I can have the exact opposite intention, too.
Title: Re: Ok, talk me through it
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on May 22, 2017, 12:37:43 PM
I sense buyer's jitters.  There' no way around them.  I'm sure you've done your research on the instruments; now you just have to man up and take the plunge.  When you get the Rev2, spend a lot of time with it for a couple of weeks to make absolutely certain it's what you want.  If it isn't, return it and try an OB-6.  Then again, how can you adapt your piano playing to a four-octave keyboard?  If both instruments strike you, then save up for an OB-6 Module, control it with your Rev2 keyboard, and have that extra octave.

You know you're going to love the Rev2.  And don't waste your time waiting for a Moog poly.  The company hasn't shown interest in such an instrument, even though a sizeable portion of their clientele has been screaming for it for years.
Title: Re: Ok, talk me through it
Post by: MDMA on May 22, 2017, 01:13:00 PM
I too share your jitters! In the meantime I have purchased both a Pro 2 (which in my view is a classic) and a Sub 37....oh yeah and a JDXA.

I nearly pre ordered a Rev about 10 times (no lie), but just before pushing that button, listened back through demos and held off. The issue I have is that no demo has really stood out for me yet, they ALL sound very organic and plinky plonky....not my sound at all. I know very well that the synth itself is way more capable than any demo I've heard so far and the specs and modulation are way beyond what sounds I've heard. This is why I've always gone back to the pre order because I know how good DSI's are, I mean....the Pro 2 is just beautiful!!!

I guess I just can't bring myself to put myself through what you're going through, even though I know it's going to sound amazing, I'd rather wait and hear it for myself and purchase it then, rather than torment myself each night until it arrives.

IMO, you've bought yourself a keeper and when it arrives you'll spend nights alone with it telling it how wrong you were and that you'll never doubt it again.
Title: Re: Ok, talk me through it
Post by: Paul Dither on May 22, 2017, 01:29:27 PM
Difficult question. You pretty much covered all of the important aspects. My advice is a trivial one: Get your hands on both units if an adequate dealer is close to you.

One more thing on the seemingly obvious point about features vs simplicity (REV2 vs OB-6): Specs don't tell everything and as a P-6 owner I can tell you that I would never call the latter not complex enough when it comes to actual sonic variety - and I'm positive that the same can be said of the OB-6. In other words: In providing 'only' one LFO and the PolyMod/X-Mod both of these synths are anything but lame for the sound design department. And by saying that I'm not trying to advocate that "instant gratifiction" should be the way to go. I only like to point out that specs alone are only one part of the equation that doesn't say anything about how the interaction with a particular instrument feels like, let alone whether the sonic characteristics speak to you. That makes hands-on testing mandatory again. My approach was always: Before you go to the dealer, check the according manual for how to initiate the basic patch and start from there.

Oh, and for the sonic flexibility of the OB-6 you should check out this EP: https://soundcloud.com/body-in-the-thames/sets/stone-soup-ep

Please don't hate me for posting yet another OB-6 demo.  ;)

As for a Moog Poly: I tend to agree with Sacred Synthesis on this one. It will a) either not happen, or b) be beyond your given price range (when averagely feature rich), or c) be very basic to keep it around 3 grand. I also don't think it would add anything particularly substantial to the poly synth market other than the Moog filter.
Title: Re: Ok, talk me through it
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on May 22, 2017, 01:49:31 PM
I nearly pre ordered a Rev about 10 times (no lie), but just before pushing that button, listened back through demos and held off. The issue I have is that no demo has really stood out for me yet, they ALL sound very organic and plinky plonky....not my sound at all. I know very well that the synth itself is way more capable than any demo I've heard so far and the specs and modulation are way beyond what sounds I've heard. This is why I've always gone back to the pre order because I know how good DSI's are, I mean....the Pro 2 is just beautiful!!!

Hang in there.  There will soon be an explosion of Rev2 demonstrations.
Title: Re: Ok, talk me through it
Post by: dslsynth on May 22, 2017, 01:55:36 PM
Best advice is patience and taking the time to check out demo videos and try it out yourself in a music store.
Title: Re: Ok, talk me through it
Post by: tumble2k on May 22, 2017, 02:08:39 PM
This won't help you at all, but I do wish I could pick up a Rev 2. It has everything I want out of a synth, at least on paper. One of the tricky things about the Rev 2 is the way it ticks so many requirement checkboxes. Multitimbral (well bitimbral) check. Five octave keyboard: check. Effects: check. Step sequencer: check. Sixteen voices: check. How could I not buy it?

The OB-6 is definitely a different beast. It doesn't check any of these checkboxes except the effects and step sequencer.

What I think though is that it's a heart vs. mind thing. If you turn into a puddle of goo when you hear the Oberheim buzzing away, you must get the OB-6. If you're looking for an analog sonic laboratory that you an create a zillion sounds with, the Rev 2 should not disappoint.

The one synth to rule them all still doesn't exist as far as I know. Maybe Dave Sauron Instruments will invent it one day.
Title: Re: Ok, talk me through it
Post by: jdt9517 on May 22, 2017, 02:56:08 PM
I'm sure you'll be happy with the Rev 2.  Sounds between the two will be somewhat different, but as you get more experienced with sound design on the Rev 2, you will have no regrets.  You may want to get an OB-6 in the future, but you won't want to get rid of the Rev 2 in its place.
Title: Re: Ok, talk me through it
Post by: LoboLives on May 22, 2017, 05:34:49 PM
Personally I'd be more interested in getting a Prophet 6 module to place alongside my Prophet 6 keyboard than a Rev2. I'd have to try a Rev2 in person, initialize a patch and see how quickly I can come up with stuff and program. There are a few minor quibbles I have with it but that's just due to personal taste I think. For me though the Rev2 is way down the list of "wants."
Title: Re: Ok, talk me through it
Post by: dsetto on May 23, 2017, 12:56:18 AM
Thank you, all, so much! Thanks for understanding where I'm at. I agree with just about all the thoughts offered. Good night/morning. Tomorrow, I'd like to highlight a few of my favorite thoughts. My jitters have been lessened thanks to the support here.
Title: Re: Ok, talk me through it
Post by: DavidDever on May 23, 2017, 04:27:45 AM
P.P.P.S.

If I had to pick one thing I am trying to satisfy in this purchase, it's a programmable synthesizer that I can pour my piano playing into.*

On this front, in a weird way, everything I wrote above still applies. Rev 2 wins on features front. All those things I wrote I can use to better emulate my personal piano playing experience.

I recall encountering a piano-like timbre with the OB-6 that I had never encountered before; and I decided that was something specific to the OB-6 timbre. It was a resonance related matter. A harmonic collection thing. I think. In the lower mid range.

But -- honestly, I prefer emulating the playing experience rather than an emulative timbre. And 4 deeper-programmable, layered oscs (or 6 with subs) and 8 voices, & 5 octaves is gonna get me closer, on that front. Or, 2 (+ sub) with 16 voices, does it in a timbrally simpler way. (Those extra oscs can get me soundboard soup analogies.)

I think the answer is ...
don't listen to OB-6 demos. I think I was right to make a decision without listening to OB-6 demos.

* What I like about synthesizers is that I can have the exact opposite intention, too.

Sounds like the 16-voice unit may be what you're after (or a Prophet-12, at 12 voices), if the ability to let notes sustain is high on your experience list.
Title: Re: Ok, talk me through it
Post by: Morgenspaziergang on May 23, 2017, 06:27:36 AM
I already have the ob6 so when i get the rev2 you can ask me anything you want. If you're in LA, you can come by my place and play them both to you hearts content . :D
Title: Re: Ok, talk me through it
Post by: LoboLives on May 23, 2017, 09:11:46 AM
I'd honestly suggest you ask yourself some questions.

1.) Am I playing live with the intended instrument or just studio based? If you are studio only...is bi timbral really needed or just a "nice to have"? If you are going live, do you want to take an expensive piece of gear on the road? Pros and Cons to both.

2.) Do I want to spend more time programming or playing? I prefer the P6 and OB6 layout over the Rev2 any day. I like everything on the front panel. My biggest issue with the Rev 2 is I have to scroll to find patches instead of random access (This was removed on the Rev2 to keep costs down),so switching between patches on the fly can be tricky (I don't see any plus or minus buttons). Also...it seems like I'll have to spend more time trying to program the Rev2 in regards to it's Bi-Timbrality. Can I modulate one patch while the other one sequences away and is unaffected by me turning the Filter Cutoff? Well I have to figure that out, as the layout on the panel is dedicated to a single engine. I would have preferred the design to be as if you have two desktop modules side by side and in the middle have the "Split" "Stack" etc buttons. So that way I can monitor both patches at once and do everything with as little menu diving as possible.

After you contemplate these questions. Go to your music store, and right away, before anything, initialize a patch. Start from scratch and see how quickly you can start creating YOUR sound. See the workflow. Feel the layout.

Go back home and review the above questions once more. It took me over a year to decide to get the Prophet 6 over the 08 or 12 and right now I'm contemplating between stuff myself so I know them feelz. ;)
Title: Re: Ok, talk me through it
Post by: Robot Heart on May 23, 2017, 10:11:12 AM
There's barely any menu-diving on the Rev2. Pretty much the only thing you need a menu for is the Misc Params because everything else is on the front panel. Even assigning mod sources and destinations, including the LFOs, can be done without looking at the display.

Bi-timbral is an option, not a requirement. If you're not aiming to make bi-timbral programs you will never encounter this feature and it certainly won't get in the way of programming. Can you modulate one patch while the other one sequences away and is unaffected by me turning the Filter Cutoff? Absolutely, and you can always tell where you are by the state of a single button; Edit B.

With this one button, it is extremely easy to determine what you're editing whether it's stack, split, or A/B layers. If the Edit B button is not selected, the front panel controls layer A (default state). If Edit B is active, the front panel controls layer B. If you press and hold Edit B for one second, it starts flashing and the front panel controls both layers simultaneously.
Title: Re: Ok, talk me through it
Post by: LoboLives on May 23, 2017, 10:37:13 AM
There's barely any menu-diving on the Rev2. Pretty much the only thing you need a menu for is the Misc Params because everything else is on the front panel. Even assigning mod sources and destinations, including the LFOs, can be done without looking at the display.

Bi-timbral is an option, not a requirement. If you're not aiming to make bi-timbral programs you will never encounter this feature and it certainly won't get in the way of programming. Can you modulate one patch while the other one sequences away and is unaffected by me turning the Filter Cutoff? Absolutely, and you can always tell where you are by the state of a single button; Edit B.

With this one button, it is extremely easy to determine what you're editing whether it's stack, split, or A/B layers. If the Edit B button is not selected, the front panel controls layer A (default state). If Edit B is active, the front panel controls layer B. If you press and hold Edit B for one second, it starts flashing and the front panel controls both layers simultaneously.

Hmmm good to know. Thanks.
Title: Re: Ok, talk me through it
Post by: dsetto on May 23, 2017, 10:39:11 AM
Controlling both layers at the same time, and easy access to do so. Wow!

--
I am very appreciative of the responses, and am taking them in.

(I use it for both performance and studio.)
Title: Re: Ok, talk me through it
Post by: LoboLives on May 23, 2017, 10:48:56 AM
Controlling both layers at the same time, and easy access to do so. Wow!

--
I am very appreciative of the responses, and am taking them in.

(I use it for both performance and studio.)

Then I'd go with the Rev2.

Actually another question I have is when you are in split mode or stack mode can a single sequence be controlling both patches? Meaning can I record a poly sequence once using both patches or do I have to re-record the poly sequence again on each patch?
Title: Re: Ok, talk me through it
Post by: Robot Heart on May 23, 2017, 11:29:41 AM
You can't record a sequence to both layers simultaneously. But, you can easily copy or swap a sequence between layers as described in the Rev2 manual under the Sequencer section.
Title: Re: Ok, talk me through it
Post by: Bryan_D on May 23, 2017, 12:25:28 PM
As for jitters, the one thing I am concerned about regarding the Rev 2 is how closely it will sound like the Tetra and reproduce my custom patches. I presume it will load the patches (minus a sub oscillator), but does the Rev 2 have that sound? Still waiting for user feedback on that point.
Title: Re: Ok, talk me through it
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on May 23, 2017, 12:29:54 PM
...But does the Rev 2 have that sound? Still waiting for user feedback on that point.

That's the $10,000 question.  Will those of us who love the Prophet '08/Tetra/Mopho sound be satisfied with the new successor?  I'm optimistic, but I still intend to do my own side-by-side comparisons..
Title: Re: Ok, talk me through it
Post by: Gerry Havinga on May 23, 2017, 01:02:21 PM
You guys/galls are so far ahead of me  :). The Rev 2 will be my very first newly purchased "professional" synth. I used to own a second hand DX7 many many years ago, a second hand M1 a bit less many years ago .... It took me 30 years getting enough courage together starting to write my own stuff and be at peace with whatever other people think of it. So I am very much looking forward exploring the world of Dave Smith.
Title: Re: Ok, talk me through it
Post by: Bryan_D on May 23, 2017, 02:52:35 PM
Can also relate to Dsetto's Rev 2/OB-6 dilemma. The OB-6 is the only other contender for me. Though my first hands-on experience with it was somewhat underwhelming (probably due to poor headphones), I plan to give it another go before making a decision. But if I opt for the OB-6, I would keep at least one Tetra just to have that Curtis sound.
Title: Re: Ok, talk me through it
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on May 23, 2017, 03:14:02 PM
You guys/galls are so far ahead of me  :). The Rev 2 will be my very first newly purchased "professional" synth. I used to own a second hand DX7 many many years ago, a second hand M1 a bit less many years ago .... It took me 30 years getting enough courage together starting to write my own stuff and be at peace with whatever other people think of it. So I am very much looking forward exploring the world of Dave Smith.

We're long-time DSI users, Gerry, and we've become ridiculously fickle with all things synthesizer.  Don't let our remarks and debates spoil your excitement. 
Title: Re: Ok, talk me through it
Post by: jdt9517 on May 23, 2017, 09:51:18 PM
Hi Gerry,

Welcome to the club!  While you'll hear lots of knit picking, any of the instruments are capable of creating satisfying and inspiring sounds.  I'm sure you will love the Rev 2.  I suggest that you get past the presets and get into the sound designing.  That's where the real fun is!

There are a lot of books out there about analog synth programming.  Also, be willing to ask questions here.  We are all learning on some level or another.  Most here are willing to provide good information to your questions.

Sound on Sound magazine had a sixty part series called "Synth Secrets".  It's available on the net.  It goes through a lot of areas of programming at a beginner level. It's very educational. 

If you haven't done so already, look into computer based recording gear.  You will see the acronym "DAW" which stands for digital audio workstation.  If you are planning to record your music, it is well worth your while.    There's a lot of capable software out there.  I use Sonar and am very happy with it.   
Title: Re: Ok, talk me through it
Post by: Gerry Havinga on May 23, 2017, 10:43:31 PM
Thanks for the feedback Jim, much appreciated. I will certainly checkout your suggestions.

I have been moving from the "theoretical" to the "practical" understanding and applying what I know over the last two years. Before that it was just dipping my toes into the composing and sound design world, "acquiring" the courage and confidence  ;). I have learned one big lesson: immediacy is very important for me. Having direct access and immediate feedback when changing settings really works for me. For sound design a computer interface takes that immediacy away. I believe from what I read, heard and seen here and on the Internet, the Prophet Rev 2 (or the Prophet 8 even) would be a great way to continue this discovery.

Regarding the DAW, I got into using Bitwig (on Windoze) two years ago for composing and "glueing" softsynths and external gear together. I really like Bitwig and of course it doesn't compare to my previous experience with a DAW: Ballade and the LAPC-I card on good old MS-DOS ;-). For recording, mixing and mastering I use Audacity and Ardour under Ubuntu Linux. Also a field where there is a many great things to learn.
Title: Re: Ok, talk me through it
Post by: jdt9517 on May 24, 2017, 09:41:34 PM
I have learned one big lesson: immediacy is very important for me. Having direct access and immediate feedback when changing settings really works for me.

That's a quality that most of us share on this site.  Even when I was young, I don't think menu diving would have played well with my brain.  The menu diving on the DX-7 kept me away from it for decades.

The P-12 M probably has the most dives but still is pretty friendly.

I'll be eager to hear your favorite sounds after you have played with it for a few month. Everybody is drawn different directions.  It will be interesting which way you go.

Also, nobody has been able to live with a Rev 2 for any length of time.  It will be interesting to see the reviews after people have been able to spend some time on it.  Heck, you may end being the first really serious reviewer!   ;D
Title: Re: Ok, talk me through it
Post by: dsetto on May 25, 2017, 02:00:38 PM
My jitters have lessened a lot. For me, today, the positives of the Prophet Rev2 path outweigh the positives of the other path. (My "today" has been long, long enough to feel comfortable about it.) ... I'm going to continue keeping that other possibility out of mind for a bit.
---
Sometimes there's a time for a deeper focus of a particular attribute. Sometimes, there's a time for a more feature-laden tool. Sometimes the conscious choice is the wrong one. Or, maybe it really was just right. :)

... All good stuff. Thank you, all.
Title: Re: Ok, talk me through it
Post by: Gerry Havinga on May 25, 2017, 10:26:33 PM
Good to hear dsetto, sorry I hijacked your thread a bit.

My own choice of selection would have been between the DM12 and the Prophet Rev 2. I have no experience (yet) with sound design on one of Dave's instruments and was taken in by all the hype Uwe's announcements caused. Several shops and even my own son, convinced me not to go for the DM12 ..... so here I am eagerly awaiting the arrival of my ordered Rev 2 ;-).

After checking all the specs (especially the sequencer part) I am now entirely convinced I am making the right choice. I really love the way Sacred Synthesis is using the stacked Prophets and this might be an inspiration for me in the (long term) to continue the DSI route .... we will see.
Title: Re: Ok, talk me through it
Post by: dsetto on May 26, 2017, 10:40:46 AM
Not a digression, at all. ... I appreciate the DM. My mind's been set on a DSI poly for too long. I played the DM the day before the Rev2 was announced, and for that day I was sincerely intrigued for its voice count.
Title: Re: Ok, talk me through it
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on May 26, 2017, 01:37:56 PM
I really love the way Sacred Synthesis is using the stacked Prophets and this might be an inspiration for me in the (long term) to continue the DSI route .... we will see.

The beautiful thing is, one sixteen-voice Prophet Rev2 will be equivalent to a Prophet '08 Keyboard-Module pair.  In that way, you'll be starting ahead of where I started, because it was some time before I added a module to my keyboard.
Title: Re: Ok, talk me through it
Post by: Gerry Havinga on May 28, 2017, 10:35:05 PM
I did order the 8 voice version though. If I want to I can always upgrade later of course.  As this is my first DSI synth and I am watching the cash flow ;-).

But having two separate synths does make some sense. It's not just that you obtain more voices, but you also get two extra timbres (patches/programs) to play with. A combination of a Rev 2 keyboard and a Prophet 8 module gives 4 timbres and 16 voices, if I understand correctly how it works. By having a 16 voice Rev 2 you "only" get two timbres.
Title: Re: Ok, talk me through it
Post by: Bryan_D on May 29, 2017, 09:15:05 AM
Though my first hands-on experience with it was somewhat underwhelming (probably due to poor headphones), I plan to give it another go before making a decision.

Had a chance to try the OB-6 out with better headphones, and it was a much better experience. Heard it through some good monitors, too. Man, that filter. There's nothing like it. For me that sound is the epitome of "synthesizer." However, the REV 2 is the consummate synthesizer. It's perfect in so many ways, and the sound is quite lovely and to be desired. For these reasons I am now considering keeping my Tetras, adding the OB-6 module, and controlling them all with the Pro 2. I can't afford both, which is what makes this decision so difficult. But part of me feels that if I don't get the Obie, I'll regret it.

Dsetto, not trying to shake your confidence in the Rev 2. As I mentioned, it's sizing up to be a perfect synthesizer. Just wanted to share some relevant thoughts and experience.



Title: Re: Ok, talk me through it
Post by: dsetto on June 02, 2017, 12:30:07 AM
I got to spend one session with a Rev2. I bother continuing this in case others are interested; and I have lots to learn.

On one hand, I know my breadth of knowledge and experience for each of DSI's 3 current top tier analogs is not vast. Yet, I feel I have a decent & deep sense of each. But I am quickly humbled by knowing there's so much sonic terrain each can do, well beyond my command.

As framework, the Rev2 is my first Prophet, and first deep programmable polyphonic. I have spent time with a few other synthesizers.

Several observations. ...

From a wide lens, they're all analog synthesizers. And the one with you is the only one- that matters. The same can be said about all keyboard instruments, even all instruments, and all things. On the other hand, each synthesizer truly is different. For every synthesizer with which I have spent quality, memorable time, each feels like a distinct instrument. And I don't know if there is a better or worse. Each different, each with a particular set of attributes providing a sense of its range. And each instrument is different in different hands, different minds.

I do not think a Saw is a Saw is a Saw- when I've got my macro lens on. (They are just about the same from a "normal" lens.) Same applies to the other elements.

And so my original question remains the same. My original balance, the same. For me, today, Rev2>OB-6/P6. For me, under a different circumstance, that balance could differ.

I've already got a basic handle of the Rev2 with eventually just one quick glance at finding Basic Patch.

From my initial, raw elements exploration, I can already hear where OB-6 & P6 shine. And the converse is true with respect to Rev2.

I can see how those well versed in these things will find these comparisons tired. As I am new, I am amazed by how these things can be so similar and also so different. Their very existence, their irreconcilable differences seem to forever perpetuate our musings.

And so while I know today I wanted 61 keys, bitimbral, 16 voices, and a sonic playground, I appreciate the existence of two flavors of fixed knob-to-function instruments whose sound inspires effortlessly.

All the imagining I did is turning out true. The pleasant surprise I had was the nice, satisfying "contemporary" sounds I got on my first explorations.

Thank you, all. I'm looking forward to your synthesis musings, on screen and air.
Title: Re: Ok, talk me through it
Post by: LoboLives on June 02, 2017, 06:58:10 AM
Question. Are there cursor buttons to select patches or is it by dial only?
Title: Re: Ok, talk me through it
Post by: dsetto on June 02, 2017, 07:11:00 AM
I didn't notice. I'll look when I'm next at it.
Title: Re: Ok, talk me through it
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on June 02, 2017, 08:51:51 AM
Dsetto -

Similar to your conclusions, I doubt if I've ever played a synthesizer that I didn't like.  It's one reason I'm glad I don't do the music store circuit.  If I did, I'd want everything I ever saw, heard, or tried.  Fortunately, the decision doesn't come down simply to what is good; it comes down also to what best fits one's actual needs.  If you're somewhat new to synthesis and are not so familiar with your needs, then you're entering an experimental period in which you'll certainly learn what they are, regardless of which instrument you buy.  But if you do understand your musical needs, then pick the instrument that best serves them. 
Title: Re: Ok, talk me through it
Post by: dsetto on June 02, 2017, 12:04:36 PM
Well said. Yes, I've followed my musical needs on this one. And already know I'm sticking with it.

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Lobo- I only found patch change by dial, not cursor. (I haven't read manual yet.)

-
As expected, Shape Mod has useful and enjoyable affect on the non-pulse forms.

But, a dual rig can have an A & B sound each with its own knobs and manual always ready.

There clearly is no one path. Many, many existing right now.
Title: Re: Ok, talk me through it
Post by: dsetto on June 06, 2017, 03:18:45 AM
I am bonding with it. In each session, I find myself in situations only possible with it.

For me today, its bitimbrality is its essential characteristic. My space is limited, and I cherish a portable, feature-rich instrument.
Title: Re: Ok, talk me through it
Post by: double-u on June 06, 2017, 04:34:28 AM
Question. Are there cursor buttons to select patches or is it by dial only?


definitely no curser like the moog little phatty stage II; horrible menu diving.

i really appreciate the simplicity of the interface and that there is no curser :D
Title: Re: Ok, talk me through it
Post by: LoboLives on June 07, 2017, 05:37:03 AM
Question. Are there cursor buttons to select patches or is it by dial only?


definitely no curser like the moog little phatty stage II; horrible menu diving.

i really appreciate the simplicity of the interface and that there is no curser :D

Ugh...I was really hoping there would at least be cursor buttons to make switching between patches a bit quicker. Turning a dial could easily lead to scrolling past the preset you need if you move it too fast.
Title: Re: Ok, talk me through it
Post by: double-u on June 07, 2017, 05:44:49 AM
Question. Are there cursor buttons to select patches or is it by dial only?


definitely no curser like the moog little phatty stage II; horrible menu diving.

i really appreciate the simplicity of the interface and that there is no curser :D

Ugh...I was really hoping there would at least be cursor buttons to make switching between patches a bit quicker. Turning a dial could easily lead to scrolling past the preset you need if you move it too fast.

That's what the user banks are for; can quickly switch between banks and have the patches you're looking for in particular orders relative to the set, etc.  How many patches do you regularly use in a performance? 128 patches per 4 user banks isn't very slow to navigate once you get into a flow
Title: Re: Ok, talk me through it
Post by: LoboLives on June 07, 2017, 09:07:26 AM
Question. Are there cursor buttons to select patches or is it by dial only?


definitely no curser like the moog little phatty stage II; horrible menu diving.

i really appreciate the simplicity of the interface and that there is no curser :D

Ugh...I was really hoping there would at least be cursor buttons to make switching between patches a bit quicker. Turning a dial could easily lead to scrolling past the preset you need if you move it too fast.

That's what the user banks are for; can quickly switch between banks and have the patches you're looking for in particular orders relative to the set, etc.  How many patches do you regularly use in a performance? 128 patches per 4 user banks isn't very slow to navigate once you get into a flow

It still isn't as instantaneous as the P6 or OB6. I understand user banks and the concept but still a dial and scroll isn't ideal when you are doing it on the fly and need to quickly switch in a second.
Title: Re: Ok, talk me through it
Post by: Jason on June 07, 2017, 09:40:23 AM
It still isn't as instantaneous as the P6 or OB6. I understand user banks and the concept but still a dial and scroll isn't ideal when you are doing it on the fly and need to quickly switch in a second.

I agree. I also find this to be a pain for fast patch switches (and also agree that the bank knob does seem to be the best option). I wonder if there is a simple MIDI pedal switch that could be used to toggle through patches via MIDI in?
Title: Re: Ok, talk me through it
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on June 07, 2017, 09:56:19 AM
I agree, too.  Scrolling requires that your patches be organized to suit the method, which some times means you've got to move them around and put them in consecutive order as you intend to use them, even musical piece by musical piece.  This is difficult even in a studio performance. 

The arrangement I find to be ideal is the keypad.  The Poly Evolver Keyboard gives you both methods - scrolling and punching in.  It's so easy and convenient that you can create your own sort of banks within banks; meaning, you can organize programs in groups of tens and reach each one by keypad much more quickly than you could by scrolling.

I haven't used a Prophet 12, so I can't say if it offers the same keypad ease as the PEK.  And not to sound like a broken record, since I've said this so many times before, but Dave aimed high with the Poly Evolver Keyboard.  I only wish he would incorprate its many strengths into other instruments more than he thus far has.
Title: Re: Ok, talk me through it
Post by: LoboLives on June 07, 2017, 11:23:22 AM
I agree, too.  Scrolling requires that your patches be organized to suit the method, which some times means you've got to move them around and put them in consecutive order as you intend to use them, even musical piece by musical piece.  This is difficult even in a studio performance. 

The arrangement I find to be ideal is the keypad.  The Poly Evolver Keyboard gives you both methods - scrolling and punching in.  It's so easy and convenient that you can create your own sort of banks within banks; meaning, you can organize programs in groups of tens and reach each one by keypad much more quickly than you could by scrolling.

I haven't used a Prophet 12, so I can't say if it offers the same keypad ease as the PEK.  And not to sound like a broken record, since I've said this so many times before, but Dave aimed high with the Poly Evolver Keyboard.  I only wish he would incorprate its many strengths into other instruments more than he thus far has.

The 12 has the same keypad feature. It even features "Live Set Mode" to organize favorites and access them quickly. For me the simplicity of the P6/OB6 layout is the best. I really hope they start to incorporate that into their future stuff....perhaps make it a "Sequential" exclusive? ;)
Title: Re: Ok, talk me through it
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on June 07, 2017, 11:39:18 AM
The 12 has the same keypad feature. It even features "Live Set Mode" to organize favorites and access them quickly.

That's what I thought and hoped, but I couldn't say based on personal experience.  Then the Prophet 12 must be a pleasure to use.  It seems to have all the tools a sound designer could wish for.
Title: Re: Ok, talk me through it
Post by: dsetto on June 14, 2017, 07:53:33 PM
Let me just say. Wow! ... I am not sure I am able to translate my personal fun sessions to something other folks would appreciate. I will surely try to be useful.

I- as all of you- will always remain forever intrigued at the various paths. And they surely all have things. I come back here to communicate again, during my 30-day easy return period, that I am happy with this current path. There are certainly things in the other DSI offerings that intrigue. I am happy with the intersection in which I started. There are elements of the classic '08, of course. There are elements of the 12, OB-6, and 6. Each of those do what they do best, better. Surely. Though I wouldn't know. But, I like what this 2nd iteration of the '08 does. I always remain appreciative to quality discussions as is found on this forum. These discussions were very helpful in me forming a sense of things. In the end, I probably could have known nothing stated here, and have pick the synth based on what I wanted and been fine just as well. But, now I know more. :)

And the experience is more rewarding, overall. Wish you all well. Thanks.
Title: Re: Ok, talk me through it
Post by: dsetto on June 14, 2017, 08:00:18 PM
P.S. It was the OSC SLOP that led to my "oh, wow" moment. I was considering communicating that it's range be diminished. I.e., for traditional sounds, 30 was higher than the ceiling I was using. But I figured I'd give it some time; and see if I ever found a use for higher. 127, even. ... And I did. A different kind of pitch wheel. Same land. But very different.

So much so that I can imagine OSC SLOP plus either VCO-special filter variant would yield ___________ (positive) results.

And, for effects purposes, it going to "11" (i.e., 127) are a plus. And, it going to "3" (i.e., 30) are likely desirable for musical means as well.
Title: Re: Ok, talk me through it
Post by: dsetto on June 14, 2017, 08:11:12 PM
Post thought to that:

I am not sure I have a clear sense of '08 Rev1 v Rev2 re: programmed vs current parameter display. This very well may be an arena where there's an advantage in the Rev1. I am not complaining about Rev2 mind you. I don't know Rev1 workflow, and am quickly learning and adapting to R2's.

The [show MISC PARAMS] is a (or the) way in R2 how this arena is addressed.

That button's placement at least allows for easy 1-handed "plus" known operation with critical parameters. And possible 1-handed operations with a majority of the knobs.

Kudos to that workflow plus.
Title: Re: Ok, talk me through it
Post by: LoboLives on June 16, 2017, 01:01:23 PM
P.S. It was the OSC SLOP that led to my "oh, wow" moment. I was considering communicating that it's range be diminished. I.e., for traditional sounds, 30 was higher than the ceiling I was using. But I figured I'd give it some time; and see if I ever found a use for higher. 127, even. ... And I did. A different kind of pitch wheel. Same land. But very different.

So much so that I can imagine OSC SLOP plus either VCO-special filter variant would yield ___________ (positive) results.

And, for effects purposes, it going to "11" (i.e., 127) are a plus. And, it going to "3" (i.e., 30) are likely desirable for musical means as well.

I almost always have slop on or have an LFO modulating the second VCO but ever so slightly so that it drifts back and forth in tune with the first VCO.

Can the Slop knob be a destination for modulation on the Rev 2?
Title: Re: Ok, talk me through it
Post by: Bryan_D on June 16, 2017, 07:16:04 PM
According to page 70 of the manual, slop is a mod destination.
Title: Re: Ok, talk me through it
Post by: dsetto on November 04, 2017, 04:34:38 PM
Time has passed. Slowly spending time with Rev2.

Simply: I like it.

I prioritized wanted features over notions of 'inherent' qualities of sound. I cannot speak to paths I don't know. ... I'm pleased with the Rev2 as it is.

Everybody's got their own perspective. Best of luck when making your calls. Interpret what you read as you see fit.
Title: Re: Ok, talk me through it
Post by: dsetto on November 06, 2017, 02:18:45 PM
I like it, as it is. (I have yet to update beyond initial release OS 1.0.0.2).

I have a lot to learn about it, but it's been instantly usable and enjoyable.

Side note: I effortlessly dialed in a simple bass sound that satisfies my purposes.

My deepest gratitude to Dave Smith, Team DSI, folks related to the project, and all the posters in this forum community.
Title: Re: Ok, talk me through it
Post by: AaronRA on November 11, 2017, 01:56:06 AM
It still isn't as instantaneous as the P6 or OB6. I understand user banks and the concept but still a dial and scroll isn't ideal when you are doing it on the fly and need to quickly switch in a second.

I agree. I also find this to be a pain for fast patch switches (and also agree that the bank knob does seem to be the best option). I wonder if there is a simple MIDI pedal switch that could be used to toggle through patches via MIDI in?

I use this for just that purpose: http://www.one-control.com/gecko-mkii-midi-switcher.html
Extremely simple and reliable. I've been using it for live performance for months with no issues, and my music requires some pretty rapid program changes. I set up a user bank for live use, and use the pedal in "Manual" mode.
Title: Re: Ok, talk me through it
Post by: Jason on November 11, 2017, 07:32:24 AM
I use this for just that purpose: http://www.one-control.com/gecko-mkii-midi-switcher.html
Extremely simple and reliable. I've been using it for live performance for months with no issues, and my music requires some pretty rapid program changes. I set up a user bank for live use, and use the pedal in "Manual" mode.

Thanks for the tip! Looks great; I just one.
Any relation to Aron RA?

Thanks,
-Jason
Title: Re: Ok, talk me through it
Post by: AaronRA on November 13, 2017, 09:10:59 PM
I use this for just that purpose: http://www.one-control.com/gecko-mkii-midi-switcher.html
Extremely simple and reliable. I've been using it for live performance for months with no issues, and my music requires some pretty rapid program changes. I set up a user bank for live use, and use the pedal in "Manual" mode.

Thanks for the tip! Looks great; I just one.
Any relation to Aron RA?

Thanks,
-Jason

Quite welcome. And nope. Had never heard of him until right now.