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SEQUENTIAL/DSI => Tempest => Topic started by: idm on April 19, 2017, 07:41:59 AM

Title: Voices randomly falling out
Post by: idm on April 19, 2017, 07:41:59 AM
Hi,

Sigh... I love the Tempest. I really do. Been making really great crunchy dark techno with it. But this problem is kind of killing my vibe...

When creating a beat, sometimes a voice, sometimes even multiple voices will suddenly drop out. And they won't work until I reboot the Tempest.

Another strange thing which might be related is that some sounds just drop off the earth for 1 loop and then come back.

I run the latest beta, calibrated multiple times etc. Etc.

Anybody else having this issue?
Title: Re: Voices randomly falling out
Post by: AdamXAudio on April 19, 2017, 07:49:36 AM
Hi,

Sigh... I love the Tempest. I really do. Been making really great crunchy dark techno with it. But this problem is kind of killing my vibe...

When creating a beat, sometimes a voice, sometimes even multiple voices will suddenly drop out. And they won't work until I reboot the Tempest.

Another strange thing which might be related is that some sounds just drop off the earth for 1 loop and then come back.

I run the latest beta, calibrated multiple times etc. Etc.

Anybody else having this issue?

I was having this issue.  What I discovered was that sounds I made in 1.4.5.1 were causing the issue in 1.4.5.2, so I recreated the sounds and resaved them and the problem went away.  I also just got my Tempest like a month ago, so I only had a dozen patches to recreate so it was a relatively simple fix for me... but that could be a bigger problem if you have more content obviously.

When I was emailing tech support about it they recommended just playing with the factory projects to see if the issue occurs there.  Might be worth trying.
Title: Re: Voices randomly falling out
Post by: idm on April 19, 2017, 07:52:36 AM
Thanks for the reply. I'm actually having this issue with newly created sounds as well.
Title: Re: Voices randomly falling out
Post by: AdamXAudio on April 19, 2017, 07:59:39 AM
Thanks for the reply. I'm actually having this issue with newly created sounds as well.

What I actually did was erase everything on the Tempest and reloaded the factory content along with the handful of 1.4.5.2 created patches I had made and backed up.  Might've been overkill, but it worked.
Title: Re: Voices randomly falling out
Post by: idm on April 19, 2017, 08:05:36 AM
Ah :). Worth a try, thanks!
Title: Re: Voices randomly falling out
Post by: RobH on April 19, 2017, 09:14:24 AM
I've been having this problem as well, a lot of voices dropping out, assigning voices usually sorted the problem to me but the voice allocation is defo having some issues for me at least.

Someone should mention it in the bug forum.
Title: Re: Voices randomly falling out
Post by: itslifesaidhe on May 01, 2017, 11:13:40 AM
Also having this issue. Mostly happens when a polysynth part is playing on loop, eventually one or two of the oscillators will drop out or the kick will disappear. Curious what is happening.
Title: Re: Voices randomly falling out
Post by: dsetto on May 04, 2017, 06:15:56 AM
Could you explain to me how I can recreate the environment to assess what you're experiencing?
Title: Re: Voices randomly falling out
Post by: AdamXAudio on May 04, 2017, 08:39:04 AM
Could you explain to me how I can recreate the environment to assess what you're experiencing?

This just started happening to me again as well after updating to 1.4.5.6.  I posted the details of what was happening to me in the Bug Reports thread, and I'll just copy it here for future visibility to anyone looking at this thread:

Just updated to 1.4.5.6 and immediately I'm having the issue where one of my voices has dropped out and stopped working.  When this previously happened to me, I suspected it was custom sounds I had created in an earlier beta causing the problem, so I wiped all my custom projects and sounds and rebuilt them and it fixed my problem. The longer I use the Tempest obviously the more tedious that process becomes though... so some kind of fix from DSI would be preferable.

I calibrated the oscillators and reset the system parameters, all the usual stuff after updating.  After a few minutes of playing one of my voices stops working, which I verify by assigning a single sound to the different voices and playing it by itself (no sequencer running) and discovering that a voice is now completely silent (in the case that just occurred, it was Voice 3).  The problem goes away after I restart the unit, but then comes back eventually.
Title: Re: Voices randomly falling out
Post by: dsetto on May 04, 2017, 04:54:27 PM
AdamXAudio, is your voice loss problem happening with files (Projects, Beats, Sounds) created in current Beta?

Can either of you instruct me how to assess this issue on my end?

(I am not on latest OS yet; but I want to try it when I get a chance.)
Title: Re: Voices randomly falling out
Post by: AdamXAudio on May 04, 2017, 05:11:41 PM
AdamXAudio, is your voice loss problem happening with files (Projects, Beats, Sounds) created in current Beta?

Can either of you instruct me how to assess this issue on my end?

(I am not on latest OS yet; but I want to try it when I get a chance.)

So, my process is I initialize the project, and then start loading in Sounds I created in the last two Betas. I then sequence with the sounds as I normally would, and I eventually notice voices dropping out abruptly, even though I'm coming nowhere close to the 6-voice limit.  It doesn't always happen at the same time... but usually within 15-20 minutes of use it'll occur, if not much sooner.
Title: Re: Voices randomly falling out
Post by: cbmd on May 04, 2017, 05:53:28 PM
Does this occur if you use sounds not created on the latest BETA OS versions?
Title: Re: Voices randomly falling out
Post by: AdamXAudio on May 04, 2017, 06:36:34 PM
Does this occur if you use sounds not created on the latest BETA OS versions?

Since it occurs kind of randomly, I'll need to check it more.  The last time this happened to me, I did a test where I only used the factory projects/sounds for an extended period of time, and the issue would not occur.  It only happened when I used my sounds saved in the beta. If it's helpful at all Carson, my technical support exchange from when this last happened to me was Request #35178.
Title: Re: Voices randomly falling out
Post by: dsetto on May 04, 2017, 09:58:59 PM
AdamXAudio, is your voice loss problem happening with files (Projects, Beats, Sounds) created in current Beta?
...

So, my process is I initialize the project, and then start loading in Sounds I created in the last two Betas. ...


Got it. ... DSI Support has suggested to me that I limit assessment of my Beta issues to either Factory-provided files or files created in the current Beta. I'm very interested in reading your results under those conditions.


Title: Re: Voices randomly falling out
Post by: AdamXAudio on May 05, 2017, 05:32:13 AM
AdamXAudio, is your voice loss problem happening with files (Projects, Beats, Sounds) created in current Beta?
...

So, my process is I initialize the project, and then start loading in Sounds I created in the last two Betas. ...


Got it. ... DSI Support has suggested to me that I limit assessment of my Beta issues to either Factory-provided files or files created in the current Beta. I'm very interested in reading your results under those conditions.

Understandable, but is the implication that I shouldn't expect my old files created in earlier Betas to work after an update?  If that's the case I might just hold off on saving new files on the Tempest until a final OS is actually released, as it's a bit of a pain to recreate them every time a new Beta comes out.  When I get the time I'll test things using the Factory content only, thanks.
Title: Re: Voices randomly falling out
Post by: dsetto on May 05, 2017, 09:41:34 AM

...
Understandable, but is the implication that I shouldn't expect my old files created in earlier Betas to work after an update?
This is my interpretation. It may have even been communicated to me.

I see it as the "small, fine print."
It makes total sense to me, for methodological motivations. I see it as the responsibility that comes with the privilege to Beta test an instrument I care about.

But, for those that this is a problem, they can find ways around it. (And I can appreciate why.) My suggestions are:
1. Don't get involved in Beta assessing.*
2. Change workflow/mindset that can accommodate this potential file incompatibility scenario with the last official OS.
3. Stay in whatever OS you feel may have greatest chance of being compatible with last OS. And, if you have a free session or  four, test your most vital functions in current OS, and then go back to your "file compatibility" OS.

 *Not assessing this current Beta OS is a little like voting for a bill without reading it. I.e., if you can find time to assess it, or accommodate the temporary state of potential future file incompatibility that seems to accompany assessing Betas, do it.



 If that's the case I might just hold off on saving new files on the Tempest until a final OS is actually released, as it's a bit of a pain to recreate them every time a new Beta comes out. 
Sounds reasonable.


When I get the time I'll test things using the Factory content only, thanks.
!!!!

I think all Beta folk should adopt this, if and when they encounter an issue.  (I believe it will reduce frustration on forum.)
Title: Re: Voices randomly falling out
Post by: AdamXAudio on May 05, 2017, 10:22:05 AM

...
Understandable, but is the implication that I shouldn't expect my old files created in earlier Betas to work after an update?
This is my interpretation. It may have even been communicated to me.

I see it as the "small, fine print."
It makes total sense to me, for methodological motivations. I see it as the responsibility that comes with the privilege to Beta test an instrument I care about.

But, for those that this is a problem, they can find ways around it. (And I can appreciate why.) My suggestions are:
1. Don't get involved in Beta assessing.*
2. Change workflow/mindset that can accommodate this potential file incompatibility scenario with the last official OS.
3. Stay in whatever OS you feel may have greatest chance of being compatible with last OS. And, if you have a free session or  four, test your most vital functions in current OS, and then go back to your "file compatibility" OS.

 *Not assessing this current Beta OS is a little like voting for a bill without reading it. I.e., if you can find time to assess it, or accommodate the temporary state of potential future file incompatibility that seems to accompany assessing Betas, do it.



 If that's the case I might just hold off on saving new files on the Tempest until a final OS is actually released, as it's a bit of a pain to recreate them every time a new Beta comes out. 
Sounds reasonable.


When I get the time I'll test things using the Factory content only, thanks.
!!!!

I think all Beta folk should adopt this, if and when they encounter an issue.  (I believe it will reduce frustration on forum.)

Thanks for the insight Dsetto! I don't think it's written anywhere in the Beta download section, but it might be nice if it could be stated that Beta saved content may cause issues when loaded into future Beta updates.  If the intention is that everyone using the Betas "start fresh" from factory settings after each update to properly debug it, that'd be good to know outright to help with debugging and avoid some user confusion/frustration.

As a side note, I've been messing around only with factory content this morning and haven't had my voices drop out, so it probably points to problems using my earlier saved Beta sounds.

Title: Re: Voices randomly falling out
Post by: dsetto on May 05, 2017, 10:41:22 AM
... I don't think it's written anywhere in the Beta download section, but it might be nice if it could be stated that Beta saved content may cause issues when loaded into future Beta updates. 
I also don't know if it's written anywhere. I have the vague notion I read a bunch of reasonable disclaimers on one of these Beta threads, relating to using the Tempest Beta. I agree it would be useful (if it hasn't already been written in the beginning of a sticky Beta thread.)

If the intention is that everyone using the Betas "start fresh" from factory settings after each update to properly debug it, that'd be good to know outright to help with debugging and avoid some user confusion/frustration.
I learned to do this after encountering my first issues. ... I think one way to approach it is to use "start fresh", upon encountering an issue. It's a nuance, but it makes the greatest win-win overall, between users & DSI.

As a side note, I've been messing around only with factory content this morning and haven't had my voices drop out, so it probably points to problems using my earlier saved Beta sounds.
That is absolutely awesome! ... As I haven't had a chance to install the current beta, I am very interested in your assessments. (I'm 2 betas short, but I've tested the most important things to me already.)
Title: Re: Voices randomly falling out
Post by: AdamXAudio on May 05, 2017, 01:33:57 PM
Unfortunately after some more testing this problem DID happen to me using only Factory sounds (specifically the Burnt Neon & Funk Kit project).

Basically, I just erased a beat and created my own pattern.  I made a fairly busy sequence, one that would surely use all 6 voices at once in certain parts of the beat, but not steal voices.  I let the beat just run on loop in the background, and eventually after a few minutes it started acting strange and dropping voices.  When I stopped the sequence, I then tried assigning a sound to a specific voice and sure enough Voice 1 had gone completely silent on me.

Title: Re: Voices randomly falling out
Post by: AnssiTir on May 22, 2017, 02:31:14 AM
I've been struggling with this issue as well. For example, I had a fairly simple drum beat (3-4 voices assigned) playing and suddenly V3 (hihat) drops out. I tried to swith between projects but the V3 is not working without restarting the whole unit. And this happens quite often. I'm using the latest OS and voice.

Any further information about this bug yet?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Voices randomly falling out
Post by: cbmd on May 24, 2017, 11:19:07 AM
Unfortunately after some more testing this problem DID happen to me using only Factory sounds (specifically the Burnt Neon & Funk Kit project).

Basically, I just erased a beat and created my own pattern.  I made a fairly busy sequence, one that would surely use all 6 voices at once in certain parts of the beat, but not steal voices.  I let the beat just run on loop in the background, and eventually after a few minutes it started acting strange and dropping voices.  When I stopped the sequence, I then tried assigning a sound to a specific voice and sure enough Voice 1 had gone completely silent on me.

I've just reloaded the Burnt Neon & Funk Kit project, initialized a beat, and entered a busy pattern.  I have not been able to replicate any issues with dropped voices.

Title: Re: Voices randomly falling out
Post by: AdamXAudio on May 24, 2017, 11:59:57 AM
Unfortunately after some more testing this problem DID happen to me using only Factory sounds (specifically the Burnt Neon & Funk Kit project).

Basically, I just erased a beat and created my own pattern.  I made a fairly busy sequence, one that would surely use all 6 voices at once in certain parts of the beat, but not steal voices.  I let the beat just run on loop in the background, and eventually after a few minutes it started acting strange and dropping voices.  When I stopped the sequence, I then tried assigning a sound to a specific voice and sure enough Voice 1 had gone completely silent on me.

I've just reloaded the Burnt Neon & Funk Kit project, initialized a beat, and entered a busy pattern.  I have not been able to replicate any issues with dropped voices.

Thanks for checking.  I've been using it since and haven't been able to replicate it as well, so it seems like it was a one-off thing.
Title: Re: Voices randomly falling out
Post by: idm on May 24, 2017, 11:33:24 PM
Unfortunately after some more testing this problem DID happen to me using only Factory sounds (specifically the Burnt Neon & Funk Kit project).

Basically, I just erased a beat and created my own pattern.  I made a fairly busy sequence, one that would surely use all 6 voices at once in certain parts of the beat, but not steal voices.  I let the beat just run on loop in the background, and eventually after a few minutes it started acting strange and dropping voices.  When I stopped the sequence, I then tried assigning a sound to a specific voice and sure enough Voice 1 had gone completely silent on me.

I've just reloaded the Burnt Neon & Funk Kit project, initialized a beat, and entered a busy pattern.  I have not been able to replicate any issues with dropped voices.

Have you been able to replicate the issue as previously described though? Using old projects in a new OS will result in voices dropping. Is there a possible fix for this?
Title: Re: Voices randomly falling out
Post by: Trevor Refix on May 27, 2017, 07:24:05 AM
I'm getting this bug on 1.4.5.2 For the current live set I'm working on, I have all voices separately patched and assigned and every once in a while a voice will drop out. It seems to either be voice 1 or or voices 5 and 6 but that may just be a fluke. It also seems to happen in my case after a period of the Tempest being on and not used - ie I'm busy tweaking something else for an hour and come back to the Tempest and the voice is silent until I power cycle. I haven't had it cut while I'm in the middle of playing it yet.
Title: Re: Voices randomly falling out
Post by: Jurgen on May 29, 2017, 03:21:54 AM
I'm having the same problem since a few weeks. 2 days ago, I did a backup, re-installed voice and main update, re-imported and calibrated. It looked good. No problems over the period of 2 day, now I just lost a voice, again.
For live, this is very inconvenient. I really hope there is a fix for this.
Title: Re: Voices randomly falling out
Post by: cbmd on May 30, 2017, 04:37:21 PM
Question for users who have encountered the drop voice issue...when a voice is dropped, is it related to a sound which is assigned to a specific voice?  Does the sound in question have any choke settings?  If so, is the pad set to choke itself and does turning of the choke resolve the issue.
Title: Re: Voices randomly falling out
Post by: AdamXAudio on May 30, 2017, 04:55:18 PM
Question for users who have encountered the drop voice issue...when a voice is dropped, is it related to a sound which is assigned to a specific voice?  Does the sound in question have any choke settings?  If so, is the pad set to choke itself and does turning of the choke resolve the issue.

Thanks for checking in Carson.  For me no choke settings were in place.  When the voice drop issue has happened to me in the past, it would sometimes happen both when a sound was assigned to a specific voice and when it wasn't. Haven't had the time to test this out recently, but I'll try and see if I can get it to happen again.

If it helps at all, I can tell you that the issue happened much more frequently when I used to try to load sounds created in an earlier beta into the current OS.  Not sure if that counts as a bug at this point though.
Title: Re: Voices randomly falling out
Post by: cbmd on May 30, 2017, 05:01:27 PM
Thanks for the info.  Have you been using LFO sync with restart modes active?
Title: Re: Voices randomly falling out
Post by: cbmd on May 30, 2017, 05:04:58 PM
Ok. nevermind all that, Ive finally seen the voice dropping issue and will look into defining the behavior better.
Title: Re: Voices randomly falling out
Post by: AdamXAudio on May 30, 2017, 05:13:37 PM
Ok. nevermind all that, Ive finally seen the voice dropping issue and will look into defining the behavior better.

Awesome!  Well not awesome that it's a bug, but glad you've finally encountered what some of us have been seeing :)
Title: Re: Voices randomly falling out
Post by: Trevor Refix on May 30, 2017, 05:38:56 PM
Hey Carson

I've pasted my same reply here over from the 1.4.5.6 thread as I'm actually on 1.4.5.2 so no need to clutter that thread up:

As per your questions:

No choke settings on my sound, but it tends to happen more often on a certain sound / beat (though has been project wide). Also has happened most often on voices 1 and 5 and 6 but hasn't ever happened on voice 4 yet to my knoledge. This may just be fluke or something I haven't noticed though - my current set has all the voices individually patched out and voice 1 is always kick and so on so it's easy for me to recall which sounds (and therefor which voices) have dropped recently.

My voices drop with or without Tempest sequencer running and as I noted before, it seems to happen more often after a period of the Tempest being on but not used (like 20 minutes of inactivity). I've only got a midi in cable attached from an Octatrack for sequencing only (no transport or clock sent), no usb.
Title: Re: Voices randomly falling out
Post by: InnerLoop on June 13, 2017, 03:33:12 AM
I've had the exact same problem as Trevor and I too have noticed it seems to happen after the Tempest has been on for a while. 
Title: Re: Voices randomly falling out
Post by: RobH on June 13, 2017, 04:37:06 AM
I've had the exact same problem as Trevor and I too have noticed it seems to happen after the Tempest has been on for a while.

The latest beta OS has had some iteration upon the voices dropping, none of the beta testers have been having the drops with the newest OS (1.4.5.12). Possibly try that if its a problem although if you have gigs lined up etc make sure to note the current OS your on and back everything up beforehand as it is a beta afterall. I'm finding the latest patch to be the best OS yet (so far).
Title: Re: Voices randomly falling out
Post by: Yorgos Arabatzis on June 13, 2017, 05:17:26 AM
False alarm he didn't understand Tempest's voice architecture..
I've had the exact same problem as Trevor and I too have noticed it seems to happen after the Tempest has been on for a while.

The latest beta OS has had some iteration upon the voices dropping, none of the beta testers have been having the drops with the newest OS (1.4.5.12). Possibly try that if its a problem although if you have gigs lined up etc make sure to note the current OS your on and back everything up beforehand as it is a beta afterall. I'm finding the latest patch to be the best OS yet (so far).
Title: Re: Voices randomly falling out
Post by: timbo74 on June 13, 2017, 05:56:48 AM
No one (Really!) wants to be an unpaid Beta tester but would it not be prudent to install the latest Beta (1.4.5.12)and work with it to get the Tempest to the stable OS finish line??
Title: Re: Voices randomly falling out
Post by: dalit on August 01, 2017, 04:30:00 PM
Hello everyone,

I think I could be experiencing an issue similar to the one described here. I bought my Tempest at the end of last year and so my OS is as follows:

Main OS: 1.4.0
Voice OS: 1.4 1.4 1.4 1.4 1.4 1.4
Panel OS: 1.3
Sam OS: 1.1

Anyway, I've noticed that this issue has come up a few times. At first I thought I was simply exceeding the limitations of the six voices but it has happened on some pretty sparse projects so I came to check here and this seems to be the best match for what I've experienced.

I started a project from init. I made a kick using one of the methods that AdamXAudio describes in his YouTube videos - sounds nice! It sequences without any problems.

I added a clap and sequenced them on the off beats - so far, so predictable!

I then tweaked one of the factory included lead sounds and switched into 16 tunings mode and played it into the sequence.

The kick and clap continue to play in the sequence, as per their presence in event mode.

The lead does not play in the sequence, despite having notes present in the sequence (visible in event mode or via the corresponding blinking of its pad). Playing the pad over the top of my very basic sequence does not cause any voices to be stolen from the kick or clap (and don't see why it should since I am using 3 voices by my own count).

I have tried assigning a specific voice to the lead but this does not remedy the issue, irrespective of which voice I assign to it. I have also checked the chokes and the mutes but this does not seem to be the issue. I have also tried resetting the unit but the issue remains. I have not updated the OS.

Similar things have happened in other projects (some of which would have been built around factory projects) but I was not confident that it wasn't my ineptitude (I'm yet to rule that one out) or just exceeding six voices.

Is this the same issue that users are describing here? I don't have things drop out for a bar but it seems kind of similar.

Should I contact support about this matter? It is quite frustrating in that inhibits my ability to really get into the Tempest because I'm never sure if the next sound will inexplicably fail to be heard in my sequence. However, if it is a known issue and a solution is being developed then I don't mind waiting for it to be resolved.

Thanks for reading and thanks in advance for any helpful advice that anyone can offer.

Title: Re: Voices randomly falling out
Post by: cbmd on August 01, 2017, 04:40:48 PM
The voice dropout feature has been fixed in the latest available BETA OS version.  You can find the BETA OS thread here:

http://forum.davesmithinstruments.com/index.php/topic,586.0.html
Title: Re: Voices randomly falling out
Post by: dalit on August 01, 2017, 06:49:11 PM
Thanks so much, Carson
Title: Re: Voices randomly falling out
Post by: dalit on August 01, 2017, 08:35:56 PM
I thought I'd follow up and report that the update has indeed resolved the issue.

Thanks again, I'm very happy that this has been resolved.