The Official Sequential/Oberheim Forum
SEQUENTIAL/DSI => OB-6 => Topic started by: Jdoo on March 29, 2017, 05:46:29 AM
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I wrote this post on another forum, but thought it might be of worth sharing here…
What follows is first impressions, warts and all - of the SoundTower OB-6 editor.
The not so good stuff:
- Though I was able to register my copy, it took a while (and a message to the support team) to get it sorted. On the upside, it is a one-time deal.
- There is no documentation / User Guide available. A note to the support team confirmed. Recommendation from support: Watch Prophet 12 videos to see what is what. This did get me rolling, as well as downloading the Mopho User Guide.
- There are bits and pieces which are confusing (especially with the lack of a user guide) but in some cases - functionality seems to not work... although it had. For example, you can overwrite a Patch Category / change it's name. It won't show up on all the screens initially. Refreshing Bank lists, can be a PITA also. A lot seemed to be, having the screen reflect changes made on the OB, or from other areas of the editor. Not a monumental issue - but in a couple of cases, I was trying to chase down non-existent problems.
The good stuff ( and there is plenty).
- Everything was able to sync up between my Mac and OB-6 Module. Comms back and forth seem fine. A change on the GUI - was reflected in the OB buffer, a change on the OB, was reflected on the GUI screens.
- Bank management, while a little confusing initially... is freaking awesome. Creating and saving banks is easy... and works. This alone, is worth the price of the software. You can easily create banks based on Sets, Genres, Tone types, whatever.
- You can create Filter, Arp and Sequencer templates.
- You can generate "Snapshots" of editing changes... allowing you to go back (I havent spent a lot of time with this - but the one test I did, worked)
- There is a Sequencer Editor... and it is functional. Wish there was documentation for this.. but I've been able to figure out the critical bits
- and . . . . the cool, fun, feature that alone - is worth the price. Oh wait - I already said the Librarian was worth the price. Well - the cool feature in addition to the Librarian is the Sound Generators. The video for the Prophet-12 editor covers these pretty well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Cq0FODRT8Q
What it doesn't say enough about... is if you have certain patch types that you enjoy, and want variations of them --- these Sound Generators are freaking awesome. If I was selling patches for the OB-6, I would be nervous about this technology. Seriously. I fired up the Sound Generator and mixed / matched some patches I really like, and generated a few dozen wonderful 'keepers' in a few minutes. You have to sort though some of the non-keepers that get generated - but my oh my. It also indexes and pulls up every Arp you have loaded. These show up in the SG windows, so you can try different arps with the variations. All your arps are in one place - and ready to audition the sounds, by clicking. This feature alone, is worth the price. oops.. sorry again.
Sorry to sound like an ad. I have no affiliation with SoundTower folks. There is a lot about the OB-6 editor that seems unfinished, and hopefully, they will get around to it. Lack of a manual is pretty sad. That said though -- if you are struggling with managing your patches, this does it - in spades. If you want on-screen editing or viewing of patch settings, this does it - well. If you want to monkey around with auto-generation of patches.. with an easy way to audition existing arps, and save these off - I know of no other game in town.
Joe
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That is the most positive review of any ST editor I have ever come across. My experience was different.
Sounds like you didn't purchase the VST editor version? If so, you dodged a bullet there.
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That is the most positive review of any ST editor I have ever come across. My experience was different.
Sounds like you didn't purchase the VST editor version? If so, you dodged a bullet there.
Yeah, I am not using the plug-in. The OB standalone editor continues to be the way I manage my patches / sound sets / libraries. It's stuff you can do 'manually' or through careful use of software like SysEx Librarian i suppose, only easier and more flexible. I still find that the Sound Generator feature, is an interesting way to explore expanding existing tones / genres. It's not without challenges though. ;D
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That is the most positive review of any ST editor I have ever come across. My experience was different.
Sounds like you didn't purchase the VST editor version? If so, you dodged a bullet there.
Yeah, I am not using the plug-in. The OB standalone editor continues to be the way I manage my patches / sound sets / libraries. It's stuff you can do 'manually' or through careful use of software like SysEx Librarian i suppose, only easier and more flexible. I still find that the Sound Generator feature, is an interesting way to explore expanding existing tones / genres. It's not without challenges though. ;D
I can provide you one version for free if you make detailed review of codeknobs SYNTHET :) http://forum.davesmithinstruments.com/index.php/topic,987.0.html
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That is the most positive review of any ST editor I have ever come across. My experience was different.
Sounds like you didn't purchase the VST editor version? If so, you dodged a bullet there.
Yeah, I am not using the plug-in. The OB standalone editor continues to be the way I manage my patches / sound sets / libraries. It's stuff you can do 'manually' or through careful use of software like SysEx Librarian i suppose, only easier and more flexible. I still find that the Sound Generator feature, is an interesting way to explore expanding existing tones / genres. It's not without challenges though. ;D
I can provide you one version for free if you make detailed review of codeknobs SYNTHET :) http://forum.davesmithinstruments.com/index.php/topic,987.0.html
Sure, shoot me a PM.
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Had some time tonight... and decided to create a couple of Pads and effects using the "Program Genetics" sound generator. I morphed string/pads that I liked, and created a couple of programs. Did the same with a couple of effects, generating a couple of Effect type patches. I dumped the SysEx files for these four into the attached zip.
Couple of notes... Other than naming the patches, I did not edit these, so they are not balanced. I didn't adjust these at all.. just dumped them as individual SysEx files using the free SysEx Librarian. These may not be anyone else's cup-o-tea, but are sounded ok to me. I don't do a lot of effects, and was dinking around... seeing what I could create on the fly. Like I said before, it's an easy way to test the waters in areas you might not otherwise go.
Lastly -- you can use the SysEx librarian, SoundTower, or whatever SysEx loader you care to, to load/try these. Use at your own risk... no warranty... yadda yadda. Just freely sharing something I liked.
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Yea, I have a whole bank of sounds that I "morphed" into new sounds. I do like that feature, reminds me of the Arturia thing where you click a point on a plot of sounds and it merges them together in various ways.
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Thanks, I downloaded the demo, should it transmit midi in the demo ? I have all the globals set to USB, obey is sending midi, but i cant transmit changes if I move parameters on the editor ?
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Thanks, I downloaded the demo, should it transmit midi in the demo ? I have all the globals set to USB, obey is sending midi, but i cant transmit changes if I move parameters on the editor ?
Am not at my workstation now (won't be for several hours), but if I understand your question correctly, yes. Changed parameters on the editor are reflected on the OB. You should see connection in the MIDI setup window. Definitely want to be using NRPN (NR) for parameter send and receive to get things rolling. This vid, goes over the settings: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kix08-8nwvs
IIRC - this all worked fine, with the demo version.
joe
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Using Nr and everything is set right on USB, curious, thanks. Don't really want to shell out till I have this sorted. But I re-checked and everything is the same, obey is online transmitting not receiving, even though Param Rcv is set to USB.
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Can anybody see anything wrong with my globals, obviously using the USB here.
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Using Nr and everything is set right on USB, curious, thanks. Don't really want to shell out till I have this sorted. But I re-checked and everything is the same, obey is online transmitting not receiving, even though Param Rcv is set to USB.
Sounds odd. Sorry it's not working for you. IIRC.. there were a couple of settings in the video, that made things come to life for me (Globals - MIDI/SysEx (button 8 ) to USB, and the 9 button (MIDI Out) also set to USB. There may be others, but if you see a connection from the editor.. MIDI Connection, then you should be getting data transmitting and receiving. You may try running a MIDI monitor while youre dinking around with this stuff. On my Mac, I was able to see transmission back and forth that way. In any case.. g'luck. It should be working...
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I've messaged soundtower. Thanks for your ideas and help.
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Oh, I don't know whether it is the same for everybody else, but the effects on the editor don't always show right even after re transmission. I.e Ring mod effect seems to want to show as 'shifter 1' a lot of the time, other times its fine.
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Oh, I don't know whether it is the same for everybody else, but the effects on the editor don't always show right even after re transmission. I.e Ring mod effect seems to want to show as 'shifter 1' a lot of the time, other times its fine.
Only differences on my Global settings to yours (and I can’t see how these would matter) are:
MIDI Clock Mode: Out Master
MIDI Clock Port: MIDI Port
Under MIDI Setup — This is what I have ..
MIDI PORTS
MIDI IN PORT MIDI OUT PORT
OB-6 Model: OB-6 Module OB-6 Model: OB-6 Module
MIDI Global Channel [ All Channels ]
Re: The effects.. Definitely, some show wrong (at times?).
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Hello everybody, I just installed the trial version of Soundtower Editor and after following the Global setup direction shown in the "OB-6 Global Settings and MIDI Setup for Soundtower Editor" tutorial video. I can only see and hear parameter change taking place when moving my OB-6 controllers but not vise versa; changing parameters from the editor GUI does not bring on any change to the OB-6 although I can change presets using the editor preset select list. Any ideas ?
Thanks
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Hello everybody, I just installed the trial version of Soundtower Editor and after following the Global setup direction shown in the "OB-6 Global Settings and MIDI Setup for Soundtower Editor" tutorial video. I can only see and hear parameter change taking place when moving my OB-6 controllers but not vise versa; changing parameters from the editor GUI does not bring on any change to the OB-6 although I can change presets using the editor preset select list. Any ideas ?
Thanks
Same issue here. Followed instructions from Soundtower. I would love to purchase this software to manage my library, but I need to know it will function on my system first. Everything seems to work except for sending data to the OB from the patch editor (it's the standalone version btw).
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Oh, I don't know whether it is the same for everybody else, but the effects on the editor don't always show right even after re transmission. I.e Ring mod effect seems to want to show as 'shifter 1' a lot of the time, other times its fine.
That is one of the known issues...I also have to keep an eye on the LFO Sync button. It tends to be wrong most of the time when I call up a preset from disk or before I save to disk from the editor. In fact, I still visually check all the parameters before I save to make sure the software reflects the hardware's state. What year is this? I recently lost a preset fiddling around with the editor and accidentally over writing the preset I was trying to call up. Losing that preset hurt...I'm putting that down to human error unless it happens again. It was a long night. Anyway, Goodluck!
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Same issue here. Followed instructions from Soundtower. I would love to purchase this software to manage my library, but I need to know it will function on my system first. Everything seems to work except for sending data to the OB from the patch editor (it's the standalone version btw).
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Ok, mystery solved. In the demo mode any editing, sending and saving is disabled. Once registered, everything will start working as expected. I bought the registered copy and all works fine now.
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Noticed that version 1.3.0 was out on the SoundTower site, so I installed it. Was hoping they had addressed the problem with the Effects not being reflected correctly between the screen and what's selected on the OB. No joy... still out of sync. ::)
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Well I heard back from Soundtower, not sure how some people have got the demo transmitting , bc the demo has that disabled.
From their email, this is how the demo is limited
- Parameter editing disabled
- Saving and loading files disabled
- Writing programs to OB-6
- Transmitting is disabled.
This means that you cannot really do anything other to make sure that you are able to establish proper MIDI communication between the synth and the Editor and preview all the Editor's features.
Of course I couldn't find this info on the site as it seems a bit half assed, but hopefully the editor isn't.
So basically even though they recommend you test it with the demo on their site, they admit you can't in a customer support email ?
In short I probably don't trust their business as you cannot get a refund if it doesn't work, but you can't test that in demo mode.
Doesn't inspire confidence does it.
Edit: missed pls last posts, so basically it's ok for everybody but effects don't display ? Is this still beta ?
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Edit: missed pls last posts, so basically it's ok for everybody but effects don't display ? Is this still beta ?
Well... they display.. Just the wrong effect. :o Actually, I saves the right value / effect that is on your OB, but the GUI has the wrong text, in it's display.
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In short I probably don't trust their business as you cannot get a refund if it doesn't work, but you can't test that in demo mode.
Doesn't inspire confidence does it.
Edit: missed pls last posts, so basically it's ok for everybody but effects don't display ? Is this still beta ?
Seems odd they would even have a demo mode if you can't test basic parameter sending. Why didn't they make it time-limited instead of feature limited? I've had issues with communication to my devices while using these kinds of programs before, so I'd like to know it will work before I buy...
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Seems odd they would even have a demo mode if you can't test basic parameter sending. Why didn't they make it time-limited instead of feature limited? I've had issues with communication to my devices while using these kinds of programs before, so I'd like to know it will work before I buy...
Yeah... the only thing you really can do with the demo, is verify communications from your OB *to* the SoundTower editor. It's a way of at least, seeing that there is 'some' level of comms working. A few folks have used the SoundTower free version, to take screen snapshots of settings for patches. It isn't anywhere near a working demo though, as the better functions are hobbled. I agree - a time-limited demo would have been better. Way better.
Update from me... At 3-4 months, I still get a ton of use from the SoundTower editor. As an example - this past weekend, I picked up Luke Neptune's latest library of sounds ( was very nice set... a lot of usable stuff ). I only wanted to load a couple of handfuls of the sounds onto my OB though. The ST librarian, made it easy to demo sounds, and move the 'keepers' into specific locations of my OB. I've organized the sounds on my OB by genre, so it's helpful to have a GUI where I can see / manage patch names. Just that feature.. saved me a load of grief / guesswork, moving stuff manually with the SysEx Librarian.
Other features of the SoundTower are still a blast to use.. (the Sound Generators are cool). In fact.. I have a set of sounds that I have generated (Pads, Brass, Effects), using the Generators for initial inspiration. I havent wrapped my arms around using the Sequencer editor... though I do use Sequencer templates for every patch I create. I.E. If I create a patch, I step through the various sequences I have saved off (and there a dozens/hundreds) while I am tweaking the patch, and usually - looking for something to save along with a patch. Seriously -- if you aren't using Sequences to liven your sounds, you've left some killer functionality at the door. There are other useful features about the ST editor, but I mentioned those in an earlier post.
At the end of the day... For me -- this was a good / must-have purchase. It's something, that perhaps a better coder, or synth guru might not want or need. It's ripe for an update. There is a LOT that still feels 'not-quite-finished' about it.. and that's too bad really. But there is a lot of great functionality / utility in the SoundTower editor.
Joe
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Update. I was poking around on the SoundTower site, and saw that they had posted a 1.4.0 of the Standalone version. Loaded it up.. and am happy to report, all the niggling bits that I had encountered - seem to be fixed now. The effects show the correct values now. There also seems to be (though I havent verified this) a way to dump single SysEx files for individual patches.
Joe
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Update. I was poking around on the SoundTower site, and saw that they had posted a 1.4.0 of the Standalone version. Loaded it up.. and am happy to report, all the niggling bits that I had encountered - seem to be fixed now. The effects show the correct values now. There also seems to be (though I havent verified this) a way to dump single SysEx files for individual patches.
Joe
This is great news, thanks so much for the report! ST just earned a purchase!
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Oh, I don't know whether it is the same for everybody else, but the effects on the editor don't always show right even after re transmission. I.e Ring mod effect seems to want to show as 'shifter 1' a lot of the time, other times its fine.
That is one of the known issues...I also have to keep an eye on the LFO Sync button. It tends to be wrong most of the time when I call up a preset from disk or before I save to disk from the editor. In fact, I still visually check all the parameters before I save to make sure the software reflects the hardware's state. What year is this? I recently lost a preset fiddling around with the editor and accidentally over writing the preset I was trying to call up. Losing that preset hurt...I'm putting that down to human error unless it happens again. It was a long night. Anyway, Goodluck!
I just have a couple of days with this so far...mostly delighted, but annoyed as well. My OB-6 has been "misbehaving" with other programs since I loaded...sometimes won't open in SONAR or Reaper until I power-cycle.
Also, the LFO waveform in the program won't go 'all the way' to SINE...just stops at SAW. I have to manually move it to SINE on the instrument. Just the library, however, is worth it, and I haven't started playing with sequence editing, but am encouraged by the look of it.
I bought both the PlugSE and the standalone ($30 extra to support a $2000 instrument seemed the right thing to do). I suspect that I will try to make the Plug work the first project I do with more than one patch.
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Noticed that version 1.3.0 was out on the SoundTower site, so I installed it. Was hoping they had addressed the problem with the Effects not being reflected correctly between the screen and what's selected on the OB. No joy... still out of sync. ::)
I went ahead and bought both the standalone and the PlugSE (a $30 gamble) without much testing, although the setup was pretty straightforward and worked just like the instructions.
Regarding the effects, the order that Soundtower displays is in the same order as the effects are listed in the printed manual...except for the reverbs, the manual lists the effects in alphabetical order:
EFFECT A
bbd-ddl-CHO-FL1-FL2-PH1-PH2-PH3-rin
EFFECT B
bbd-ddl-CHO-FL1-FL2-PH1-PH2-PH3-rin-HAL-r00-PLA-SPr
On the actual OB-6, the order is (listening to these it is obvious they are correct!):
EFFECT A
bbd-ddl-CHO-PH1-PH2-PH3-rin-FL1-FL2
EFFECT B
bbd-ddl-CHO-PH1-PH2-PH3-rin-FL1-FL2-HAL-r00-PLA-SPr
Other misses I have discovered.
LFO SHAPE top position is "SINE" on hardware, "TRIANGLE" in software (I mistakenly reported that the position was missing on my earlier report)
I just went through and checked everything else and these are the only things that popped up, although I have also noticed a couple of glitches here and there like the LFO SYNC, although that seems fine with 1.4.0 (which I am currently running and still has the specific issues listed above).
On a further saga...just gave up on an attempt to use the PlugSE. I had mixed results...first I tried it with Reaper and could not get it to work at all...it would not recognize the OB-6 at all, even though it is clearly connected as the standalone version works fine. Neither of the red lights in the MIDI port selection would come on and a scan reported that it could not find my OB-6.
Then I tried it with Cakewalk SONAR (the final release of the Platinum version), and everything worked fine...the PlugSE fired up properly, recognizing both input and output (both red lights came on) and seemed to work well. Unfortunately, I'm using SONAR less and less since the debacle with Gibson when I decided to try out Reaper, which I am liking.
Then I tried it with Ableton LIVE which I use mainly for idea generation and jamming for song fodder...I was able to get the OB-6 input connection (i.e. I could use the software interface to program and load the synth), but could never it to synch up with the hardware controls. Oddly the red light that indicates successful connection (I think) came on in the <MIDI Out Port> selection, but <MIDI In Port> stayed dark (the opposite of what actually was happening as I was able to send stuff TO the OB-6 FROM PlugSE, but could send stuff FROM the OB-6 TO the PlugSE)
Any thoughts??
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I paid for both the S.A. & Plugin versions as well. I have never used the plugin version and stopped trying a few days after purchase. Bewildering amount of issues there when I tried it. I have the S. A. version installed on a laptop along with the new SE-02 editor. My DAW ran out of usb ports so having a laptop handle the stand alone editors is working great and it freed up some ports on my DAW. Lucky my girl doesn't need her laptop back.
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Followup on my issues above.
I sent a copy of my "measured rant" above to the Soundtower support email. I received an initial reply that was somewhat 'boilerplate' (watch the setup video) and ignored some of the longer message points.
I then replied with a reassertion of the issues (really only 2) and received an excellent reply.
My problems with the PlugSE were relatively straightforward but unsatisfying. I didn't realize that just having a USB port <Enabled> had different responses in different DAWs, that led to my mixed results. In Cakewalk SONAR, the OB-6 USB-MIDI port doesn't get "Grabbed" until you actually connect it to a track. In Ableton, apparently they assume you don't have send MIDI out to a keyboard until asked to so only the receive side of the USB-MIDI got 'grabbed'. In REAPER, just having the port enabled takes the OB-6 USB-MIDI out of circulation. The solution (assuming that you want to record MIDI in from the OB-6 and reserve the ability to "Print" at a later time) is to use the 'Bth' <both> choice for MIDI on the OB-6, use the USB side for the PlugSE and the DIN MIDI for Note and pedal information. Seems to work repeatedly. It's really a Windows problem (still no multi-client USB driver even with the latest Win10 PRO) but the different way that DAWs handle it causes confusion. I've found that just opening REAPER, and then opening the Standalone version of the OB-6 editor disables it from coming on line with USB only.
Now my problem is that I'm out of MIDI ports...sigh
On the filter list, the folks at SoundTower said they were unaware that there was any problem...don't know if anyone contacted them or just posted on the forum. They don't look at the forums (in their defense there are probably too many places to look...). Any time that multiples of us agree on a problem, we should contact them directly. Their claim is the order they used was the right one when the product was released. I just got my OB-6 a few months ago, so I can't tell, but it is suspicious that their list is the same as the alphabetical list in the DSI manual. Anybody know if the order changed at some point?
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Followup on my issues above.
I sent a copy of my "measured rant" above to the Soundtower support email. I received an initial reply that was somewhat 'boilerplate' (watch the setup video) and ignored some of the longer message points.
I then replied with a reassertion of the issues (really only 2) and received an excellent reply.
My problems with the PlugSE were relatively straightforward but unsatisfying. I didn't realize that just having a USB port <Enabled> had different responses in different DAWs, that led to my mixed results. In Cakewalk SONAR, the OB-6 USB-MIDI port doesn't get "Grabbed" until you actually connect it to a track. In Ableton, apparently they assume you don't have send MIDI out to a keyboard until asked to so only the receive side of the USB-MIDI got 'grabbed'. In REAPER, just having the port enabled takes the OB-6 USB-MIDI out of circulation. The solution (assuming that you want to record MIDI in from the OB-6 and reserve the ability to "Print" at a later time) is to use the 'Bth' <both> choice for MIDI on the OB-6, use the USB side for the PlugSE and the DIN MIDI for Note and pedal information. Seems to work repeatedly. It's really a Windows problem (still no multi-client USB driver even with the latest Win10 PRO) but the different way that DAWs handle it causes confusion. I've found that just opening REAPER, and then opening the Standalone version of the OB-6 editor disables it from coming on line with USB only.
Now my problem is that I'm out of MIDI ports...sigh
On the filter list, the folks at SoundTower said they were unaware that there was any problem...don't know if anyone contacted them or just posted on the forum. They don't look at the forums (in their defense there are probably too many places to look...). Any time that multiples of us agree on a problem, we should contact them directly. Their claim is the order they used was the right one when the product was released. I just got my OB-6 a few months ago, so I can't tell, but it is suspicious that their list is the same as the alphabetical list in the DSI manual. Anybody know if the order changed at some point?
Excellent response today:
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From Soundtower
"A new version (1.4.8) of the OB-6 Editor is available now and includes fixed FX assignment and a new sequencer."
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Hi everyone,
I recently purchased a OB-6 Desktop Module, and I started quickly looking at the Soundtower software which seems useful. I have a little money to spend before this year's fiscal year is over, but unfortunately limited time for research during the holidays.
I was just wondering if someone would like to share what the difference is between the Standalone Editor and the "OB-6 PlugSE"? I am working with Ableton Live to sequence and record the OB-6, in case that's good information.
Secondly, does that VST work well (for whatever it does) and do you think it's is worth getting, beside the Standalone Editor?
Thanks and happy holidays!
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I've heard a lot of peopel say the plug in version is way less stable than the standalone editor. I use the standalone version, and it's dead solid and works fine here.
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Just thought I'd add my 2022 experience as of today
- Email query was answered within an hour, last week. Bought and received code within an hour today. So customer experience for me at least was top notch.
- Documentation / User Guide still not there. But if you can use this synth you shouldn't have much problem. Just make a backup first.
- Setup, thankfully there's a video. Easy, usually your defaults are setup this way if you've used it with anything else.
- Patch management, awesome. I have a google sheets with all my 'spare banks' and save to those normally. Now I can just browse to a 'Basic Program' save & boom. Great! Lots of ways to save patches and load, from different locations.
- Arp editor - excellent. If you can use piano roll you are away. Functions are handy too.
I'd be happy with just that, but the sound generator is SO much fun. Really don't know why they haven't pushed this more on the page? I only knew about it because of this thread! Anyway, I've made 3 slamming bass sounds. (well, it did)
I've only had it an hour or so and made 3 patches. Organised most of my library and made 2 cool arps.
Oh, it's now on version 2.4.1 fwiw
I do have CodeKnobs also for the vst, so I didn't bother with that.
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- Documentation / User Guide still not there. But if you can use this synth you shouldn't have much problem. Just make a backup first.
Not sure if anyone has posted this but this is available regarding a manual:
https://www.soundtower.com/ob6/manual/
Edit: should say it's not in depth, but does provide some info