The Official Sequential/Oberheim Forum

OTHER DISCUSSIONS => General Synthesis => Off Topic => Topic started by: Sacred Synthesis on November 18, 2015, 11:28:30 AM

Title: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on November 18, 2015, 11:28:30 AM
This is the place to dream about what you'd like to see DSI make next.

Personally, I'm still awaiting "the big one," the sort of large-scale polyphonic bi-timbral synthesizer, strong in the fundamentals of synthesis but not loaded down with additional features, that would be a worthy replacement for the Prophet '08.  In fact, the Prophet '08 is a great place to start.  Add two more oscillators, a high pass filter, longer envelope times, possibly a few more voices, onboard delay, and I'd be in synthesizer paradise.  I'm fine with eliminating the arpeggiator and sequencer, if that will help to reduce the price tag.  Make this a real keyboard player's instrument. 

I'm hoping DSI will some day make an instrument that will allow me to move on from either the Poly Evolver or the Prophet '08, something that doesn't suffer from the common modern ailments of thin-sounding oscillators or filters, too few voices, or too short a keyboard.  And of course, make both keyboard and knobby module versions of the instrument.  I'm still hoping.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on November 18, 2015, 12:26:15 PM
I'd be with Razmo and would like to see something like an updated Wavestation/VS with Waldorf/PPG-like wavetables and the option to create your own wavetables as well as adding samples. Add the Evolver way of doing wave sequences (which I think slightly resembles the way the Animator is used in the Modal Electronics' 002 and 001) and lots of morphing options. Realtime recording of the vector stick movements for automation would be nice as well. The only analog components I'd like to see in such an instrument are the filters of the Pro 2 - at least there should be a state variable filter - and an analog distortion, as it works beautifully with a digital front end. Adding granular synthesis as an option would be nice as well. Basically, I would like to see a mainly digital synth that offers as many manipulation options as possible in order to work with wavetables and sample content, or - to word it differently - a synth that picks up on where parts of digital synthesis left in the 1990s. Make it multi-timbral and add four individual outs for each of the four extreme vector positions.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on November 18, 2015, 12:51:04 PM
Well... I don't have to add my wishes I can see... pretty much agree with the above idear :)

but... not to be a spoilsport, but I either read or heard in a video, where Dave himself talked about how they come by new products, and he said that they go around the office talking about what they want to do next... and then the word "We do not do user base surveys here!" came along... so basicaly, they don't create what the users want, but what they want themselves, so I guess we can only "inspire" them here  ;)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on November 18, 2015, 01:21:01 PM
not to be a spoilsport, but I either read or heard in a video, where Dave himself talked about how they come by new products, and he said that they go around the office talking about what they want to do next... and then the word "We do not do user base surveys here!" came along... so basicaly, they don't create what the users want, but what they want themselves, so I guess we can only "inspire" them here  ;)

I guess the users mostly start to come in when it's about firmware improvements (no matter how long that takes in the end). At least that's the field the support usually reacts very open to - at least in my experience.

As for basic design ideas: Yes, I imagine a lot of brainstorming to be going on. The ideas won't be coming out of nowhere though. It'll be in parts what Dave and his colleagues always wanted to do, current trends and developments in general (Eurorack, available types of synthesis, the status quo of current building parts, etc.), and maybe a bit of user feedback too. One doesn't necessarily have to perform strategic market research for that. Ideas can be triggered by just scanning through a couple of forums or comments, just as it happens in non-virtual environments and discussions.

My thought is just that you can only go so far with certain types of synthesis. The current flagships, the Prophet 12 and the Prophet-6, are pretty much perfect for what they are. You can't really add a whole lot in that direction without killing the according products or by making the prices go through the roof. So I would assume before we see (improved or extended) successors to those, we'd rather see DSI focussing on a new type of instrument and/or synthesis. They might still design a couple of offsprings (just like the Mopho has been to the Prophet '08) here and there to attract buyers that can't spend a fortune immediately.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on November 18, 2015, 02:29:53 PM
I am probably going to repeat myself here but main wishes are:


What I am after is essentially a best-of-all-so-far kind of module. The Oberheim Xpander is a good starting point. In other words a module with a usable and minimal OLED display based user interface and very expressive voices inside.

Really like the idea of granular or sample oscillators too. Agree that strong fundamentals are essential.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: cr73645 on November 19, 2015, 07:27:44 AM
My suggestion is really simple, and I think that it would solve the problem os many users.

Take a Prophet 12, kill two digital oscillators, add two P6-like VCOs and discreet filter for each voice, add PRO2's sequencer and CV options, add BBD delay emulation, 10 voices polyphony. That's it. I'd be glad to sell some stuff to pay for it. It's the master DSI Frankenstein!

A new mono with mixed features of what they already have would awesome too. A Pro2, less 1 digital oscillator, + 2 analog VCO (even 1 VCO + sub), a tweak to Pro2's filter. Great machine!
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Soundquest on November 19, 2015, 09:35:25 AM
I'd really like something very similar to the PEK in case my PEK ever dies!    No sequencer needed.   More of a keyboard player synth as Sacred Synthesis had stated.    Any ability to import waveforms more easily would be welcome.

Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: natrixgli on November 19, 2015, 06:41:37 PM
I'd like to see something like a cross between the Pro 2 and Tetra. Small form factor, properly functioning multitimbral mode and no sequencer. I'd like to be able to use it as 4 monosynths, 1/3 voice split mode, or 4 voice poly mode. And software would be cool if it was made by LITERALLY anyone else but Soundtower.

If it had a more compact UI like the Prophet 12 Desktop I wouldn't mind. I would buy the hell out of that!
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on November 20, 2015, 05:40:46 AM
And software would be cool if it was made by LITERALLY anyone else but Soundtower.

Hehe! Me guess anyone can make unstable software if they want to do so. Making quality products for the price tags of editor software takes way more resources than the market wants to pay.

Agree on Tetra as being a good model for a future multi-timbral polyphonic DSI instrument.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: _ADSR_ on November 22, 2015, 08:16:22 AM
Prophet T8000

Prophet T8 Keyboard Concept (weighted, wooden PolyAT, velocity, etc.) with all the best guts from the Prophet 08 (multiple LFO routing and modulation destinations), Prophet 6 (LP/HP Filter & Osc), Pro 2 (CV in/out and modulation - oh! make it bi-timbral with a Pro 2 section using split!) and might as well add a Prophet 12 section for layering, Prophet5/T8 envelopes...

I do believe I've given myself the vapors! ;D

Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on December 09, 2015, 03:37:29 PM
I must say... I'd really like to see a studio-module, that sort of take the idear of multiple sounds of the Tempest, and puts them into this desktop module with pads.

I'm thinking about a device that has presets made up of 8 sounds (so that the sounds can be individualy controlled by it's own MIDI channel), each sound dedicated to a single pad.

Each sound should be digitaly generated a bit like the voice architecture of the P12, but with an added sample oscillator.

In general I see this as an externaly controlled percussion/FX module... one that is minded toward studio rats like me, that want total MIDI control. The reason I only wrote 8 pads is that I would like for each and every pad to have it's OWN individual voice, with the same filters as in the Pro 2 for ultimate sound sculpting control, and having more than eight such voices might be overkill in price... maybe even 6 voices could do the trick to keep price down.

The intention is to avoid voice allocations, and voice stealing... each pad on it's own voice, and having a seperate output in addition to a mixed main out.

the main use for it would be drums, percussion and FX sounds.

But I want to take the sampling into a rather different direction than the way samples is normaly handled.... I'd like for each Pad to have it's own short sample... maybe just 1 second of sound per pad, but it should be loopable... this inspire for creative use, but the fact that every sample should be short is because I want the sample TO BE PART OF THE PRESET! ... not some pool of samples stored in memory or the like... the sample must be part of the actual preset, and also be part of the SysEx structure of a voice.... with todays USB connection speed, it would not pose any problem driving a mere 44.100 samples along with a dump.... and the advantage is self explanatory... people would be much more inclined to make their own samples, you would be able to forget about sample banks when distributing your presets etc...

Such a device would be cool for percussion, FX, short samples and stuff like that... I'd REALLY like to see such a device...

Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on December 09, 2015, 03:51:20 PM
But I want to take the sampling into a rather different direction than the way samples is normaly handled.... I'd like for each Pad to have it's own short sample... maybe just 1 second of sound per pad, but it should be loopable... this inspire for creative use, but the fact that every sample should be short is because I want the sample TO BE PART OF THE PRESET! ... not some pool of samples stored in memory or the like... the sample must be part of the actual preset, and also be part of the SysEx structure of a voice.... with todays USB connection speed, it would not pose any problem driving a mere 44.100 samples along with a dump.... and the advantage is self explanatory... people would be much more inclined to make their own samples, you would be able to forget about sample banks when distributing your presets etc...

Such a device would be cool for percussion, FX, short samples and stuff like that... I'd REALLY like to see such a device...

What do you think about Ableton's Push 2?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on December 09, 2015, 04:06:27 PM
But I want to take the sampling into a rather different direction than the way samples is normaly handled.... I'd like for each Pad to have it's own short sample... maybe just 1 second of sound per pad, but it should be loopable... this inspire for creative use, but the fact that every sample should be short is because I want the sample TO BE PART OF THE PRESET! ... not some pool of samples stored in memory or the like... the sample must be part of the actual preset, and also be part of the SysEx structure of a voice.... with todays USB connection speed, it would not pose any problem driving a mere 44.100 samples along with a dump.... and the advantage is self explanatory... people would be much more inclined to make their own samples, you would be able to forget about sample banks when distributing your presets etc...

Such a device would be cool for percussion, FX, short samples and stuff like that... I'd REALLY like to see such a device...

What do you think about Ableton's Push 2?

I'm having problems figuring out if this is just a front end for computer software, or a selfcontained instrument? ... if it's self contained it's interresting... if not I have no interrest in it, since I do not use computer softsynths, and don't want to :)

But with that said... it still lack what I want... integration af samples into presets in the MIDI, and probably most important; the analog part of the voice...

Don'r get me wrong, the Push2 is probably REALLY cool for many people, but what I'm looking for is a bit different.

Basicaly what I want is just a new Tempest minded for studio use, but with the voice architecture of the PRO 2 and added user sample capabilities at preset level... probably never going to happen though... but that's what I'd like to see.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on December 09, 2015, 04:16:11 PM
I'm having problems figuring out if this is just a front end for computer software, or a selfcontained instrument? ... if it's self contained it's interresting... if not I have no interrest in it, since I do not use computer softsynths, and don't want to :)

But with that said... it still lack what I want... integration af samples into presets in the MIDI, and probably most important; the analog part of the voice...

Don'r get me wrong, the Push2 is probably REALLY cool for many people, but what I'm looking for is a bit different.

Basicaly what I want is just a new Tempest minded for studio use, but with the voice architecture of the PRO 2 and added user sample capabilities at preset level... probably never going to happen though... but that's what I'd like to see.

Gotcha. Well, the Push controller is of course not self-contained, but only working in conjunction with Ableton Live. Basically, I'm only addressing Ableton's Sampler "Simpler" and how it is integrated into Push 2. There's a slicing function that lets you automatically map parts of one sample to the pads (depending on the resolution). That's why I brought up the question. I don't own the Push 2 controller, but have tested one at an Ableton event and I have to say that the workflow is pretty amazing. One of the coolest devices I can currently think of when it comes to working with samples. No need for soft synths. All the other aspects are not covered the way you'd like them to be, though. It was just an idea, because Push 2 makes the processing of samples a really tactile experience.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on December 09, 2015, 04:30:20 PM
I'm having problems figuring out if this is just a front end for computer software, or a selfcontained instrument? ... if it's self contained it's interresting... if not I have no interrest in it, since I do not use computer softsynths, and don't want to :)

But with that said... it still lack what I want... integration af samples into presets in the MIDI, and probably most important; the analog part of the voice...

Don'r get me wrong, the Push2 is probably REALLY cool for many people, but what I'm looking for is a bit different.

Basicaly what I want is just a new Tempest minded for studio use, but with the voice architecture of the PRO 2 and added user sample capabilities at preset level... probably never going to happen though... but that's what I'd like to see.

Gotcha. Well, the Push controller is of course not self-contained, but only working in conjunction with Ableton Live. Basically, I'm only addressing Ableton's Sampler "Simpler" and how it is integrated into Push 2. There's a slicing function that lets you automatically map parts of one sample to the pads (depending on the resolution). That's why I brought up the question. I don't own the Push 2 controller, but have tested one at an Ableton event and I have to say that the workflow is pretty amazing. One of the coolest devices I can currently think of when it comes to working with samples. No need for soft synths. All the other aspects are not covered the way you'd like them to be, though. It was just an idea, because Push 2 makes the processing of samples a really tactile experience.

I can certainly see the advantage of Push2 ... It reminds me a bit of all the other sample grooveboxes... and NI Machine and a lot of AKAI stuff...

In essence... seen from a performance view, what I want to accomplish is using a device with preferably 8-16 pads for triggering sound FX made with real synthesis (hence the Pro2 architecture), but with added sample abilities for more flexibility in firing off sounds that are too complex to handle with synthesis (accoustic stuff etc. like percussion and looped snippets of sounds like rain, fire, water running and other looped textures) ... but I want to sculpt these sounds with analog filters and VCA....

I often see electronic musicians that play live, have some sort af device available with pads, that they use to fire off sound FX in a performance... usualy it's just some sample playback device... I'd just like to expand on that with a synth engine per pad, and some pressure sensitivity to the pads, to make the sounds more adjustable in real time for less static sound.

Basicaly the Tempest is such a device... it's just way too convoluted in it's interface, it shares sounds with few voices, it has terrible MIDI communication features and generaly have way too many features (all the sequencing stuff could easily be left out!)... I'd like it more simple, better integrated with a studio (MIDI).
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on December 09, 2015, 04:58:23 PM
In essence... seen from a performance view, what I want to accomplish is using a device with preferably 8-16 pads for triggering sound FX made with real synthesis (hence the Pro2 architecture), but with added sample abilities for more flexibility in firing off sounds that are too complex to handle with synthesis (accoustic stuff etc. like percussion and looped snippets of sounds like rain, fire, water running and other looped textures) ... but I want to sculpt these sounds with analog filters and VCA....

I often see electronic musicians that play live, have some sort af device available with pads, that they use to fire off sound FX in a performance... usualy it's just some sample playback device... I'd just like to expand on that with a synth engine per pad, and some pressure sensitivity to the pads, to make the sounds more adjustable in real time for less static sound.

Basicaly the Tempest is such a device... it's just way too convoluted in it's interface, it shares sounds with few voices, it has terrible MIDI communication features and generaly have way too many features (all the sequencing stuff could easily be left out!)... I'd like it more simple, better integrated with a studio (MIDI).

Adjusting individual pressure sensivities per pad (as well as individual settings for envelopes, filters, etc.) is possible with Push 2 - and pretty quickly too.

So I guess you basically want a Push 2 as a self-contained box with analog filters and enhanced MIDI functionality.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: DavidDever on December 09, 2015, 08:44:52 PM
Prophet T8000

Prophet T8 Keyboard Concept (weighted, wooden PolyAT, velocity, etc.) with all the best guts from the Prophet 08 (multiple LFO routing and modulation destinations), Prophet 6 (LP/HP Filter & Osc), Pro 2 (CV in/out and modulation - oh! make it bi-timbral with a Pro 2 section using split!) and might as well add a Prophet 12 section for layering, Prophet5/T8 envelopes...

I do believe I've given myself the vapors! ;D

That keybed was awesome. But with all of the non-traditional controllers out there, do you think it's really worth the time and effort to incorporate a hammer-action keybed in a high-performance synth? I'd rather have a long-throw (TP 60-style) Fatar organ keybed, which would get closer to the T8 throw (even if the sensors might not be as sophisticated, and, lacking poly aftertouch).
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Steven Morris on December 16, 2015, 01:42:12 PM
I know this is totally out of left field, but I've been hoping to see a synth that combines the ergonomics of a lot of the classic subtractive synths but uses some different, much less common, forms of synthesis.

For example, DSI seem to have been adding some BBD's to their most recent synthesizers. I think it would be absolutely amazing if a four-voice Karplus-Strong synthesizer was developed out of this with excellent tracking. The 'character' section in conjunction with numerous envelopes would be an amazing addition to this. I imagine a dedicated, or set of dedicated character envelopes would be beneficial to this section as well. Of course a couple of analog oscillators would help tremendously with designing sounds as well as with appealing to a wider audience. Of course multiple noise-sources would be necessary for this kind of synthesis. They could call it the Pro KS!

Out of this, all kinds of products, including a 1V/O BBD Eurorack module could be introduced ;)

One can always dream I suppose...
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: DavidDever on December 18, 2015, 07:20:02 AM
One thing that I would love to see in a flagship keyboard is a better keybed, e.g., Fatar TP/8S (Waldorf Wave, Access Virus, Kawai K5000s, and, uh, John Bowen's Solaris) rather then the TP/9S currently used (and quite popular, also used in my Waldorf Q).

I'm not sure that a 76-key model makes commercial sense (in spite of the additional panel space), except in pricey, custom models (as Waldorf did with the Wave, as an option) -  so 61-key beds would be perfectly fine.

Poly aftertouch would be an entirely different proposition and would likely require a different approach to the chassis (read: heavier).
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on December 30, 2015, 03:25:28 AM
I would like to see a drummachine meant for studio use via a DAW... Preferably something that is expandable.

I'm thinking a kind of desktop module, with a single pad on it for triggering the sound, and a small display above it, and a few single knobs for data entry and editing, to keep it minimal... and then some smart way of "clicking" one such device onto the side of the next, letting you chain up to 16 of them (one for each MIDI channel).

The point is that a single unit should be relatively cost effective, being a single drumvoice in itself, but allow for more voices as needed. This way you could do with just one box, if you're the layer recording type of musician, or more if you're the live performance type of musician... a win-win for everyone... even the poor musician who can get access to the technology without breaking the bank, but eventualy add on it when the funds are there.

I imagine the engine being something like this:

One oscillator from the P6 (or another design, it just needs to be STABLE! with a huge pitch range and ability to reset it's phase at note-on, preferably even choosing the degree to start at for full control of the "click" in the transient).

One Pro2 digital oscillator complete with character section.

One sample oscillator with access to some form of user sample memory. (must have both single-shot, and looped sample capabilities)

Now follow these three oscillators with the Pro2's dual filters... and make the oscillators individualy routable to these two filters, or around them, so that you can decide exacly what oscillators goes thru them.

Now follow the dual filters with an analog distortion circuit, where you again can route the output of the two filters into, or around the distortion curcuit as you see fit.

Finish the signal path with the FX block of the P6, with the ability to feed it from both right after the distortion curcuit, but also from the direct output of the two digital oscillators (these would be in the digital domain at that point anyway, so no need for DACs).

Make sure that the audio rate mod-matrix can modulate between both the Pro2 oscillator and the sample oscillator for many more sonic options. Also make a single ADC path along the analog signal path to allow for feedback.

Make the whole thing playable as a synth as well, adding polyphony as you add more modules.

Keep the price approx. at what the Mopho Desktop was... some corners may have to be cut, I don't know, but something like that :)

Point is... I really want a single drumvoice device, tailored for drum synthesis, with both analog and digital capabilities and added sampled percussion feature... but coupled with analog filters and distortion (filters must be capable of both LP, BP and HP, and each oscillator be routable to these for added flexibility).. topped with digital FX is important too... Envelopes must be fast, and have dedicated curve parameters to allow for precise adjustment of the response curves.. .this is CRUCIAL! ... the reason for the routable oscillators is that to make convincing snares and other percussive sounds, you have to have control over at least two elements of the sound... Snares for example has a "skin" sound, and a "noise" sound that needs to be shaped individualy.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on December 30, 2015, 01:11:50 PM
I agree with you on many of the points, Razmo.

The idea of having some kind of user loadable sample playback with pre/post filter choice/mix in a voice architecture would be very cool. Same with percussion features like fast envelope times, envelope shaping and attack/decay mode. However I would rather like this to be part of a general voice architecture like seen on Tempest that can be use for multiple purposes. That studio multi-tool.

My guess is that the component price and board size of the Pro 2 filters are way higher than a Mopho module so doubt such a module would be affordable. Also I like the idea of extension modules but doubt it will be cheaper than the current module and polychain concept in DSI modules.

So how about a desktop module with percussion and sample features? ;)

Having it in form of a multi-timbral module without any keys on allows for more compact size and free choice of controller to use such expressive workhorses like QuNeo (http://www.keithmcmillen.com/products/quneo/) or QuNexus (http://www.keithmcmillen.com/products/qunexus/). Such controllers allows for more degrees of freedom than the standard row of black and white on/off switches.

I must say that I like your idea of analog/hybrid percussion synthesizers operated from a pad controller. My guess is that you will soon regret that you sold your Pulse 2 and possibly MBase11/MBrane11!
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on January 01, 2016, 04:08:04 AM
I agree with you on many of the points, Razmo.

The idea of having some kind of user loadable sample playback with pre/post filter choice/mix in a voice architecture would be very cool. Same with percussion features like fast envelope times, envelope shaping and attack/decay mode. However I would rather like this to be part of a general voice architecture like seen on Tempest that can be use for multiple purposes. That studio multi-tool.

My guess is that the component price and board size of the Pro 2 filters are way higher than a Mopho module so doubt such a module would be affordable. Also I like the idea of extension modules but doubt it will be cheaper than the current module and polychain concept in DSI modules.

So how about a desktop module with percussion and sample features? ;)

Having it in form of a multi-timbral module without any keys on allows for more compact size and free choice of controller to use such expressive workhorses like QuNeo (http://www.keithmcmillen.com/products/quneo/) or QuNexus (http://www.keithmcmillen.com/products/qunexus/). Such controllers allows for more degrees of freedom than the standard row of black and white on/off switches.

I must say that I like your idea of analog/hybrid percussion synthesizers operated from a pad controller. My guess is that you will soon regret that you sold your Pulse 2 and possibly MBase11/MBrane11!

I agree that some of the idears I have may be either too circumstancial, or expensive, but it will have to be specificaly tailoreed for percussion synthesis, otherwise you could just use a normal synth like Evolver or even Mopho for this, but those are not optimal in my opinion.

The main idear was to have a single drumvoice in a single unit really... Personaly I'd be happy even with a device that had no physical controls at all, so that all control and editing would be via an editor, but I don't think that many others would want it that simple, so I'd let the interface be up to DSI.

I would not want to give up on the dual filters to be honest, and the flexible routing because that will be a crucial part of the sound design options.. Maybe I'd even say that I'd like something new there, like four individual filters that could be used at the same time... a LP, HP and BP, individualy routable to the oscillators... If you wanted to forget about routing the oscilltors into filters, I'd be happy with three SEM type multimode filters, one hardwired for each oscillator... the point is, that I see the three oscillators as three distinct sound parts of a single drumsound, and each would need to be sculpted differently... I'd also like the engine to have dedicated envelopes for each oscillator's/filters parameters... throw in an analog distortion at the end... maybe even one for each oscillator, and finish it off with the P6 FX section, but with new FX tailored for percussion sound, and make it possible to control the routing of the FX as either serial or parallel, so that it can be used both as ambience (echo and reverb), but also insert FX (distortion, compressor, EQ etc.).

You could even diminish the engine, by only having one analog oscillator, and one multi-functional digital oscillator, that can work as both the ordinary Pro2 oscillator, but be switched into using samples... that may even be smarter... especialy if you decided to leave out the analog oscillator and made the front end 100% digital... in that case two such digital oscillators could give some nice options (but I know DSLSYNTH, that you'll be grinding your teeth at leaving the analog oscillator out :D ). In my opinion though, an analog oscillator may not really be needed, if the digital ones have been tailored for consistency etc... in fact I think I'll prefer that to any unstable analog oscillator.

The Character sectioncould also be expanded... I can see many fun digital mangling parameters being added on an oscillator basis, in addition to the mod matrix audio rate modulation.

More or less, it could be a synth as well... would not mind, as long as the engine is made for individual control of the oscillators... maybe the Pro2 architecture is even close to what I could use for this... maybe I'm just still dreaming of the Pro2 engine in a small desktop device...
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on January 01, 2016, 05:29:34 AM
I would not want to give up on the dual filters to be honest, and the flexible routing because that will be a crucial part of the sound design options.. Maybe I'd even say that I'd like something new there, like four individual filters that could be used at the same time... a LP, HP and BP, individualy routable to the oscillators...

Sounds like simpler voices and layers could do the same. One filter per voice but the ability to stack multiple voices. More distributed sound design of cause but its doable. Like your idea of a next generation percussion voice and user samples. Would like to see that happen. Only trouble with the two Pro 2 filters is that $1K voice price.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on January 01, 2016, 06:04:55 AM
I would not want to give up on the dual filters to be honest, and the flexible routing because that will be a crucial part of the sound design options.. Maybe I'd even say that I'd like something new there, like four individual filters that could be used at the same time... a LP, HP and BP, individualy routable to the oscillators...

Sounds like simpler voices and layers could do the same. One filter per voice but the ability to stack multiple voices. More distributed sound design of cause but its doable. Like your idea of a next generation percussion voice and user samples. Would like to see that happen. Only trouble with the two Pro 2 filters is that $1K voice price.

The main point of the architecture is, that to create, say; a snare... you'd need to create the skin tone of at least two oscillators, and preferably have an analog LPF to shape it off... but you'd need a separate VCA to sculpt it's length as well separately from the noise part, that will be made from another oscillator, and this "layer" has to be capable of running thru a HPF with resonance to shape the noise-part... it must also have it's own VCA since this part usualy is longer than the skin part...

Like the above, each and every typpical percussion sound is usualy build up of independant part, that require some flexibility in routing options etc. that few synth engines give you currently... this is why a sound needs to be build up of several parts... if you made a single voice architecture, where you have to sort of like have 2-3 full voices for each sound it'll be expensive... but how ould you circumvent this? ... You could leave some of the sculpting to digital control... say; create the individual filters for each oscillator as digital ones.... for example a multimode digital filter for each oscillator... lets just say three of those, with each it's own multimode filter, Character section, Amplifier etc. all made in digital... then fire those three together thru an analog LPF and HPF, both with resonance, and then into an analog distortion, and lastly that FX engine at the end.

That would allow you to pair the LPF/HPF into a BPF...

But this architecture is pretty close to what the Pro2 is anyway... each oscillator has it's own digital VCA... but it could be expanded upon to make the oscillators even more separate, like with the idears I gave above...
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on January 01, 2016, 07:13:13 AM
Do you need more than two parts?

Could a digital filter or noise color parameter with a pre/post filter setting do the job?

I do get the idea for multiple parts of the sound and are just wondering what the best DSI-like voice architecture being able to express such sounds would look like in order to keep the expressiveness high and the price as low as possible. Not to mention that there are many other sounds possible in such an architecture and one wants to leave room for a certain degree of expressiveness here too. Speaking of percussion sounds I am really curious what digital effects the original Dave/Roger drum voice had. Could be interesting to see in a new voice type.

For instance by inserting the digital oscillators in post filter mode together with the delay mix-in point would greatly save D/A converters as these are needed anyway. A modulation slot could route the VCA envelope value to the noise level or the noise level could be controlled with a separate envelope.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on January 02, 2016, 03:03:39 AM
Do you need more than two parts?

Could a digital filter or noise color parameter with a pre/post filter setting do the job?

I do get the idea for multiple parts of the sound and are just wondering what the best DSI-like voice architecture being able to express such sounds would look like in order to keep the expressiveness high and the price as low as possible. Not to mention that there are many other sounds possible in such an architecture and one wants to leave room for a certain degree of expressiveness here too. Speaking of percussion sounds I am really curious what digital effects the original Dave/Roger drum voice had. Could be interesting to see in a new voice type.

For instance by inserting the digital oscillators in post filter mode together with the delay mix-in point would greatly save D/A converters as these are needed anyway. A modulation slot could route the VCA envelope value to the noise level or the noise level could be controlled with a separate envelope.

More than two parts?... that depends on what you have avaiable as oscillatos I guess... a simple skin hit tone, will require at least two detuned oscillators alone, and would need a third to introduce the noise part... so if the supersaw technique was expanded to allow very large detunings, then one oscillator could probably serve as the skin part.

But then look at how the old TR-808 did it's hihats... a combi of 6 inharmonicaly detuned pulse waveforms is used in that... this would require a superpulse waveform with capabilities of detuning in a random fashion.

There are many forms of drum synthesis, and I'm sure you would not be able to catch them all, and that there are other ways to create convinving hihats without using 6 pulse oscillators, you'd just have to make the engine as flexible as possible, but I think that the Pro2 architecture looks pretty good for this allready, and only need a few twists to get better.

Regarding noise parts... to be able to give the noise a good sound, you'd need resonanse... the resonance is alfa omega here to make the noise part cut thru... without resonance, no claps is possible really, or good snares that does not sound like simple hipass filtered noise... on the TR-808, you even had the noise filtered in two separate paths to allow for more thump in the transient.

So it's probably hard to create a voie architecture that will allow for everything... but that's not really needed either... as long as the most basic sound sculptning possibilities are there.... the more colkours the oscillators themselves can do, the better, the more individual they are, the better, you need at least a multimode filter with resonance and an analog distortion is essential for kick drums as well as other sounds... the sample oscillators are needed for realistic cymbals as these are practicaly impossible to do with synthesis.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on January 02, 2016, 03:49:15 PM
I see what you mean, Razmo! So two analog filters would indeed be useful. So would layers be as that is another way to get two filters but only when needed though voice management would be more complex.

Two filters with a Pro 2 style cross fader between them and sample playback oscillators? Sounds tasty! Wonder if a Curtis chip filter and a discrete state variable filter would be a good idea? Could be more compact and possibly cheaper than the Pro 2 filters.

Would love to see a general purpose voice architecture with a few extra features for better percussion sounds rather than specialized voices. Unless of cause its next generation TR-808 style voices like the ones provided by Jomox and Elektron et al but with much more thought out integration of analog and digital parts.

Speaking of claps on the Evolver one could use the single step sequence trick to get separate filter settings for each of the two filters. Could be interesting to see how well that performs in practice.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Joeski on January 03, 2016, 06:06:49 PM
I would like to see something with Fractal Waveforms . . .
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 09, 2016, 03:51:48 PM
Since this might end up being an endless discussion not bound to a particular NAMM event, I've turned this topic into a sticky topic in case DSI/Sequential are looking for inspiration.  ;D
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on January 09, 2016, 04:07:15 PM
I've turned this topic into a sticky topic in case DSI/Sequential are looking for inspiration.  ;D

Would be lovely if DSI can feel just a little inspired by our dreams but of cause we have to listen to DSI (https://twitter.com/dsiSequential/status/559271256092971009) too.

. o O ( :o )
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Joeski on January 09, 2016, 06:51:08 PM
 It would be interesting to see a synthesizer that had the option to run the raw waveforms through an analog phaser or distortion before it went to the analog filters and even the envelopes.  That way it would retain a punchy attack with harmonically rich variations.   
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: chysn on January 09, 2016, 08:12:06 PM
This is the place to dream about what you'd like to see DSI make next.

I want DSI to respond directly to the Sub37 with a 37-key monosynth with architecture similar to the Prophet 6, in the $1500 USD range. That would be fun, and I'd probably start saving up right away.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 09, 2016, 08:25:12 PM
This is the place to dream about what you'd like to see DSI make next.

I want DSI to respond directly to the Sub37 with a 37-key monosynth with architecture similar to the Prophet 6, in the $1500 USD range. That would be fun, and I'd probably start saving up right away.

That's quite possible if there's going to be a monophonic little brother of the Prophet-6. In a way, I always perceived the Prophet-6 to be a brilliant response to the Sub 37, just in the form of a polyphonic synth. Conceptually or philosophically both are pretty close - at least with regard to the immediacy both offer.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: chysn on January 10, 2016, 03:23:24 AM
I want DSI to respond directly to the Sub37 with a 37-key monosynth with architecture similar to the Prophet 6, in the $1500 USD range. That would be fun, and I'd probably start saving up right away.

That's quite possible if there's going to be a monophonic little brother of the Prophet-6. In a way, I always perceived the Prophet-6 to be a brilliant response to the Sub 37, just in the form of a polyphonic synth. Conceptually or philosophically both are pretty close - at least with regard to the immediacy both offer.

Well said, that makes sense. Given DSI's past pattern, a new monosynth seems natural; but it's possible that DSI/Sequential has decided that polyphony is their ground, and they may demur on the monosynth market. Dave Smith himself said at one point* that anybody can do an inexpensive monosynth with a decent sound, but polyphony is hard.

So I would totally understand if we don't see a monosynth from DSI. If that's the case, I'm still perfectly happy with my Little Phatty/Evolver combo.

_________________
* Sorry, I couldn't find the video link.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 10, 2016, 07:38:43 AM
There have to be future Sequential instruments, and a small monophonic/duophonic/paraphonic would be the most natural choice at this point.  Or perhaps something resembling the Tetra.  If Dave goes in the opposite direction - bigger - then he'll very quickly surpass the P12 as the most expensive and the flagship of the line.  That's not impossible, but I think it's unlikely.  I say we'll see a small Sequential instrument sooner or later.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on January 10, 2016, 11:06:56 AM
In such a case they hope they make it a Prophet-2 instead in order to allow for filters in stereo configuration. Hopefully with more modulation features and layers!

. o O ( same old rant )
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 10, 2016, 11:34:33 AM
I wonder if Dave will ever design an instrument larger than the Prophet 12.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on January 10, 2016, 11:37:26 AM
You know what? I really think the good old Rhodes keyboards need some competition: Prophet 16.

Of cause that requires discrete electronics voices and a complex voice to make it interesting not to mention heavy!

;)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 10, 2016, 12:10:09 PM
You know what? I really think the good old Rhodes keyboards need some competition: Prophet 16.

Of cause that requires discrete electronics voices and a complex voice to make it interesting not to mention heavy!

;)

You mean an instrument with a Rhodes keyboard?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 10, 2016, 12:23:47 PM
Or something like this?

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-qUpy68eyPsA/VKd1RlLtZ9I/AAAAAAAJOXI/D4s8CNsFzAE/s1600/9760_SequentialCircuits_ProphetT8.jpg)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on January 10, 2016, 02:19:19 PM
I mean a synthesizer with plenty of analog discrete electronics voice boards. Could be quite heavy hence the Rhodes comparison. Second guess is the right one.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Strange Quark Star on January 12, 2016, 11:26:12 AM
I thought something that could replace the Rhodes Chroma https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDbz-1RBLmU

That synth's architecture is massive! http://www.rhodeschroma.com/
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: musicmaker on January 20, 2016, 11:45:04 PM
8/12 voice Analog synth from DSI in the P8 desktop price range with USB MIDI 2.0/3,0 at around (1300~1400 euro) where you could allocate each voice to an individual midi channel, and you could use for example (timbres x voices)  2 x 4 , 1 x 8 (as today, but also) 4x1+2x2,4x1+2x2 etc..  Lots of folks don't need a lot of poly for for some sounds, even mono is fine and having several of these would be nice. Wouldn't this be technically possible with current P6/P8/12's with a firmware change?

Other ideas could be a P8/P6 or P12 based low cost 4 voice 1U module w/o knobs (jutst MIDI), at a low price, where you could hook 2 or 3 up together for more poly (or as an extension for voice for a P8 from 8 to 12 etc.) .
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on March 14, 2016, 11:23:29 AM
https://reverb.com/news/reverb-interview-dave-smith-on-synths-inspiration-and-experimentation

"We have a couple surprises coming up soon and more in the works after that."

. o O ( hopefully small voice count modules )
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: BobTheDog on March 14, 2016, 12:32:48 PM
https://reverb.com/news/reverb-interview-dave-smith-on-synths-inspiration-and-experimentation

"We have a couple surprises coming up soon and more in the works after that."

. o O ( hopefully small voice count modules )

I'm hoping for mini keys.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on March 14, 2016, 12:33:36 PM
I wonder if one of those new items could be an OB-6 Module.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: chysn on March 14, 2016, 01:24:59 PM
Probably about time to pick up this thread again, now that we know what the last new DSI instrument was.

I've already said my things, if not in this thread, then elsewhere. I was tempted to make a thread called "Another Man's Quest for the Perfect Mono Synth," but I'm not quite as rigorous as Sacred Synthesis in my requirements. And also, I'm willing to entertain the possibility that the Little Phatty and the Evolver are co-perfect mono synths, and that maybe there's no need for a quest at all.

If DSI were to decide to make another mono synth, here's all I want:

(1) Three octaves. I've got an acoustic piano, so 37 keys does it for me on a mono synth.
(2) Nice wooden cabinetry, like the Prophet 6.
(3) I mean, really, basically a monophonic Prophet 6.
(4) But with or without the effects section. Don't care.
(5) CV ins would be essential, though. CV outs would be way cool. I'm planning on buying a CP-251, and I want to keep it when I change synths.

Yeah, that's pretty much it. If something like this comes along by the next NAMM, and is priced somewhere in the Pro2 range, it'll be sitting on my synth table. If not, I dunno. Maybe I'll just get a Voyager or some crazy thing. Or revisit the Pro2. Who knows? That's the fun of the whole thing.

But what do I think they're going to do? I think they're going to release an OB6 module. And I also think we haven't seen the end of Prophet 6/OB6 as a platform for new oscillator/filter/signal routing combinations.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: BobTheDog on March 14, 2016, 02:51:51 PM
For me a 12 voice, two timbal P6/OB6 with the modulation abilities of the P12/P2 would be a definate buy.

Something like the VS would be pretty neat as well.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on March 15, 2016, 04:43:40 PM
I guess posting this here makes sense: http://forum.davesmithinstruments.com/index.php/topic,399.0.html (http://forum.davesmithinstruments.com/index.php/topic,399.0.html)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: DavidDever on March 17, 2016, 07:10:17 PM
I've thought about this after watching the Nashville Users Group clip, and I can only see (albeit blindly) three collaborations that might line up for next month's release. Mind you - I have no clue what I am talking about, just guessing wildly.

Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on March 30, 2016, 10:39:03 PM
Now this is what I would call a rather surprising move: http://djworx.com/worlds-collide-dave-smith-meets-pioneer-dj/ (http://djworx.com/worlds-collide-dave-smith-meets-pioneer-dj/)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: BobTheDog on March 31, 2016, 01:09:35 AM
!
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: chysn on March 31, 2016, 05:34:24 AM
Q: What do you get if you cross Pioneer DJ with Dave Smith?
A: A sad, sad thing.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on March 31, 2016, 06:05:39 AM
I've thought about this after watching the Nashville Users Group clip, and I can only see (albeit blindly) three collaborations that might line up for next month's release. Mind you - I have no clue what I am talking about, just guessing wildly.

  • Keyboard Sampler with Dave Rossum, possibly with sample import capability (e.g., Prophet 2000 and 3000, E-mu EIII / Emax, Akai/MPC, others) and definitely with analogue filters (SSM-style, as found in the Pro 2 and Prophet 6). Like the Tempest, this is a known product area that the legacy Sequential product line made more than one attempt at.
  • Polyphonic Synthesizer with true Moog ladder filters (!), as it's highly unlikely that Moog Music would build one themselves with any great degree of reliability. This would likely use the same mainboard, or an expanded version with a larger number of CV inputs and outputs.
  • Wavetable / Hybrid Synthesizer, possibly with Wolfgang Palm, and maybe with a retro touch along the lines of the OB-6, and definitely with analogue filters, though I think that this might be a great opportunity for Curtis (Wave 2) + SSM filters (Wave 2.x) in the same unit. Anyone notice that the Waldorf Eurorack modules are missing a proper analogue filter?

I hope not... that would fill out my last three stereo channels in my mixer, and at the same time leave a big hole in my wallet  :-\
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: chysn on March 31, 2016, 06:14:20 AM
I just familiarized myself with Pioneer DJ's catalog. They make four types of sad things. Oh, and if my comments below make it seem like I have no respect for the art of DJing, that's only because I have no respect for the art of DJing.

(1) The make "Players." Players are basically CD players with extra buttons. They also play other media, and give you ways to blend different things together on the beat. So that the dancers can keep dancing, or something.

(2) They also make "Mixers." DJ mixers are sort of like real mixers, except that they use RCA jacks that can last up to about a week before breaking. You need one of these if you use multiple players.

(3) Pioneer DJ also makes "Controllers," which allow you to pretend that your CD player (see #1) is a turntable, so that the artist can move it back and forth and make pretend scratching sounds.

(4) And the other sad thing that Pioneer DJ makes? "All-in-one systems," which combine all three of the other sad things into a single sad thing.

I can't wait to see what DSI brings to this table. Some sort of analog rhythm unit makes the most sense, and may serve to extend Pioneer DJ's catalog into less sad things. But such a rhythm unit would logically have to be plagued with RCA jacks. Roland used to (maybe still does, but who cares?) make pretty cool (but also plagued with RCA jacks) DJ-oriented samplers. These almost made DJing seem potentially interesting. Maybe DSI is getting back into the sample market via the groove sampler, which is still sad, but perhaps hints at real instruments to come.

Whatever it turns out to be, I'm preparing my best shrug.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: blewis on March 31, 2016, 06:39:48 AM
Nice summary.  :D

I'm hoping for good things but prepping for "our new DJ gear has dBBD delays and two analog filters from DSI". And a tempo synced LFO or two for the filters.

Also hoping it doesn't budge my GAS needle.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: DavidDever on March 31, 2016, 06:43:23 AM
Sampling? Analogue filters? A few analogue oscillators? And the mass-market uptake (from a much-larger dance/DJ-oriented prosumer electronics manufacturer, no less) to justify a new run of DSI-120 (or whatever the new equivalent might be) synthesizer-on-a-chip(s)?

For those who wanted drum synths or low-end analogue / hybrid sound modules to replace the Mopho / Tetra / Evolver, this might be exactly what you asked for. And-in a clever bit of staging-it bypasses the noise of the Superbooth announcements that nearly everyone else would be looking for cues from.

(edited) And yes, BBD delays would be cool, too....
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on March 31, 2016, 08:44:50 AM
Q: What do you get if you cross Pioneer DJ with Dave Smith?
A: A sad, sad thing.

Believe me - I feel your pain, and share it.  Pardon my lack of enthusiasm, but it's another box for the dance crowd, while fine keyboard music drums its fingers in impatience.  I sure hope this is not DSI's new direction - smaller instruments, shorter keyboards, fewer voices, and this kind of gadget.  How about some desktop and rackmount effects designed just for keyboardists?  And some five-octave instruments once again?  C'mon now, let's get back to the major league with musical instruments designed for grown men.   

Here I am, able and eager as can be to put some money into my set up, and nothing new strikes me.  Amazingly, after all these years, nothing yet makes my Poly Evolvers and Prophet '08s look obsolete.  They're looking bigger and better by comparison every day. 

Hopefully, next year's new instrument will resemble in size and power the earlier days of DSI.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on March 31, 2016, 03:35:59 PM
Well Dave mentioned yet another surprising collaboration in a recent interview so that could indeed be this Pioneer DJ thingy. However, I noticed that all the articles I could find about the collab were deleted again and that its Great Trustability Day (TM) over here now so could it be a date dependent artifact? ;-)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on March 31, 2016, 04:43:48 PM
Well Dave mentioned yet another surprising collaboration in a recent interview so that could indeed be this Pioneer DJ thingy. However, I noticed that all the articles I could find about the collab were deleted again and that its Great Trustability Day (TM) over here now so could it be a date dependent artifact? ;-)

I was thinking about an April fool hoax as well. Who knows? If there's any truth to it, it would certainly be unexpected. But I also find it hard to imagine what could be the outcome of such a collaboration. I mean it's not that DJ stuff is the hottest new thing in town, nor do I see any room for another pad controller (if the design of the ad was anything to go by).

Most people I know were disappointed that this wasn't about DSI and Buchla.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on March 31, 2016, 04:52:54 PM
Maybe they'll reissue this one  ;D:

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-C7SbvtlLwfU/T_VqRNppvHI/AAAAAAAADVM/Y7xHDNcrgGg/s1600/k58-36_37.gif)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on March 31, 2016, 06:12:51 PM
But April fools' jokes are supposed to be funny, like Moog's polyphonic Theremin stunt.  Now that was funny.  But this is just plain depressing.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on March 31, 2016, 06:14:53 PM
Just to be clear, I'm not wishing that anything old be re-issued.  (My only exceptions to this were the ARP Odyssey and 2600.)  I'm wishing for something new and big...as always. 

I'd like to see many of the advances of these past few years poured into one large instrument: Pro 2 filters, Prophet-6 oscillators, OB-6 effects, and Prophet 12 size and voice architecture.  I'm willing to spend up to $4,000 for the big one, if it's really good.  Otherwise, I'll have half-a-dozen Prophet '08 modules hanging from the ceiling, or I'm going to start wandering over to Modal Electronics.  I'm tired of the small/medium-sized stuff.  It's nothing an organist can work with, nor enough for a composer of neo-classical music.  I mean business when I make music, and fiddling around with backpack-sized gear ain't business.  Besides, I never take my synthesizers hiking.

Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: chysn on April 01, 2016, 05:57:13 AM
But April fools' jokes are supposed to be funny, like Moog's polyphonic Theremin stunt.  Now that was funny.  But this is just plain depressing.

Yeah, but it had me researching DJ equipment, which is #$%ing hilarious. I have to give it up for that one.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on April 01, 2016, 09:31:35 AM
I'd like to see many of the advances of these past few years poured into one large instrument: Pro 2 filters, Prophet-6 oscillators, OB-6 effects, and Prophet 12 size and voice architecture.

Welcome to the club! Please make a smaller voice count desktop module for me. Complex voice and strong fundamentals are the way to go!
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on April 01, 2016, 09:37:58 AM
Yeah, but it had me researching DJ equipment, which is #$%ing hilarious. I have to give it up for that one.

If you want an evil April fools joke how about this one: DSI will significantly extend their team of software developers in order to meet the demand of their existing product users... ;-)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: vinnyburns1@mac.com on April 01, 2016, 10:56:40 AM
I think the collaboration will be a memory Moog with the same form factor as OB6 Pro6.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: chysn on April 01, 2016, 11:14:02 AM
I think the collaboration will be a memory Moog with the same form factor as OB6 Pro6.

News of collaboration with Moog would be much better, as an April Fools Day bit.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on April 01, 2016, 11:26:55 AM
Hybrid cowbell. Everything else is a joke.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Steven Morris on April 02, 2016, 04:45:04 AM
...
Out of this, all kinds of products, including a 1V/O BBD Eurorack module could be introduced ;)

One can always dream I suppose...

Sounds like my dream came true!

Heard the news about the DSM-03 via the wonderful Cuckoo!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQhqqwGazbA
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on April 05, 2016, 09:08:40 AM
http://djtechtools.com/2016/04/05/toraiz-sp-16-pioneer-djs-first-sampler-syncs-cdjs/ (http://djtechtools.com/2016/04/05/toraiz-sp-16-pioneer-djs-first-sampler-syncs-cdjs/)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on April 05, 2016, 09:55:58 AM
Chysn and I have already pre-ordered.  Can't wait.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on April 05, 2016, 10:04:36 AM
Chysn and I have already pre-ordered.  Can't wait.

I knew you would love the colors.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: BobTheDog on April 05, 2016, 10:06:26 AM
Actually that looks pretty interesting to me especially if it has 16 P6 filters in it.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on April 05, 2016, 10:24:19 AM
Chysn and I have already pre-ordered.  Can't wait.

I knew you would love the colors.

Right now, I'm dying my hair the same colors in celebration.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: BobTheDog on April 05, 2016, 11:00:58 AM
Actually that looks pretty interesting to me especially if it has 16 P6 filters in it.

Looking at the video it seems when they talk about "filters" they are talking about two filters LP and HP, so I guess on the main outs.

Seems a shame a 16 channel sampler with 16 filters would have been pretty neat.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on April 05, 2016, 11:24:01 AM
Actually that looks pretty interesting to me especially if it has 16 P6 filters in it.

Looking at the video it seems when they talk about "filters" they are talking about two filters LP and HP, so I guess on the main outs.

Seems a shame a 16 channel sampler with 16 filters would have been pretty neat.

I'm not even sure about the term sampler. It just seems to be a sample playback device.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: BobTheDog on April 05, 2016, 11:49:42 AM
It does have audio ins so it could be.

Even though it has "DJ" attached to it it looks like an MPC type thing with an XOX type sequencer, if it supports chromatic sample playing that is; looking at some of the screen dumps there is a pitch parameter and it does have midi in and also a USB host port so I'm hoping it does. There are scant technical specs around though.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on April 05, 2016, 11:50:07 AM
Right now, I'm dying my hair the same colors in celebration.

We want picture proof! ;)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on April 05, 2016, 12:20:31 PM
Okay, here's the picture proof.  I put my best nose on for the photograph.  And I'm really happy in this selfie because I just designed another monster brass patch on my Prophet '08s.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on April 05, 2016, 01:05:29 PM
So now you are a real DJ, eh!? . o O ( hehe )

. o O ( run for cover )
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on April 05, 2016, 01:40:33 PM
hmm... seems like my prayers has been heard... somewhat... a sampler with analog filters.... this MAY be just what I need  :) ... going to look a bit more on the specs...
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on April 05, 2016, 01:46:54 PM
Looks like this may be exactly what I need to fire off samples on the fly, with analog filters and all... pricing is as always a bit steep, but it's tolerable... Now I only need some SysEx info.... as always  ;D
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on April 05, 2016, 01:56:54 PM
Hmm... 16 pads... I hardly believe this thing will have 16 filters for that price... there is no info I can find that explains the signal chain on this thing... If my intuition serves me right, those filters is probably global... probably not what I want anyway...
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: BobTheDog on April 05, 2016, 03:09:02 PM
Yep that's what I think.

If it has 16 (or even 8 ) I would be very interested. I guess as they haven't mentioned it though it's probably just on the mains:(
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: chysn on April 05, 2016, 07:48:12 PM
This is good news. DSI probably devoted like five minutes to this project. "Here are some chips. Here's some documentation. Don't forget to put our logo on it." I bet that precious little actual synth-designing time was wasted in the making of whatever this thing is*.

* Yes, I know what it is. That was me being crotchety.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on April 05, 2016, 08:18:54 PM
Hmm... 16 pads... I hardly believe this thing will have 16 filters for that price... there is no info I can find that explains the signal chain on this thing... If my intuition serves me right, those filters is probably global... probably not what I want anyway...

Forget it. These filters will be global. Otherwise this would be a bargain, which I doubt looking at Pioneer's usual price policy.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on April 06, 2016, 01:11:11 AM
Hmm... 16 pads... I hardly believe this thing will have 16 filters for that price... there is no info I can find that explains the signal chain on this thing... If my intuition serves me right, those filters is probably global... probably not what I want anyway...

Forget it. These filters will be global. Otherwise this would be a bargain, which I doubt looking at Pioneer's usual price policy.

Exactly... and considering it's just a single lowpass, and hipass, with a bit of distortion, on the global outs... then that price is simply outrageous.... I bet the filters is not even MIDI controllable, but probably just hardwired on the global outs... I could make something similar by taking a much cheaper sample player box, and add a DSI modular filter on the main outs, or any other filterbox.

I know this is meant for DJ's now, so I'll let them waste their money on this thing...

DSI: Next invention please!  ;D
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on April 06, 2016, 01:13:27 AM
I can imagine a lot of disappointed Tempest X-owners, who wanted their own samples, will be getting some long faces when they see this at first, and think it's the holy grail of what they wanted, only to find out it's not...
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on April 06, 2016, 10:49:53 AM
DSI probably devoted like five minutes to this project. "Here are some chips. Here's some documentation. Don't forget to put our logo on it."

Well I would not be too surprised if they spend a few days and some prototypes on it before sending off the final version of the circuits to Pioneer. After all modifications were made to the P6 filters such a drive and resonance limits. That is probably a bit more than just an edit/compile/produce dance.

But, hehe, good joke! ;)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on April 06, 2016, 12:03:33 PM
Okay, so it's stereo, and there are a couple of other differences:

http://createdigitalmusic.com/2016/04/we-talked-to-dave-smith-about-those-pioneer-sampler-filters/ (http://createdigitalmusic.com/2016/04/we-talked-to-dave-smith-about-those-pioneer-sampler-filters/)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on April 07, 2016, 05:01:00 AM
Sonic state video:
https://youtu.be/bGBr9XcDITA

Create digital music report:
http://createdigitalmusic.com/2016/04/we-got-our-hands-on-pioneers-new-sps-16-sampler/
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on April 07, 2016, 09:16:52 AM
Okay, so you can actually sample, which is good on top of the true stereo filter.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on June 29, 2016, 03:04:04 PM
For me a 12 voice, two timbal P6/OB6 with the modulation abilities of the P12/P2 would be a definate buy.

Something like the VS would be pretty neat as well.


+1
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on July 11, 2016, 12:38:26 AM
Now that I have turned to multi timbral usage of my gear, I realize, that what I want to see from DSI, is a top notch synth, like the P12, but with a multi mode for 16 channels... a module of sorts, meant for the studio user as a workhorse. 16 voices, so that each channel can have at least 1 voice configured... also the voice allocation should be dynamic across the 16 channels (not like on Evolver, where you reserve a certain number of voices)... on top of that, it should have digital quality FX built in, so that the machines can work as a stand alone device without need for external processing... a delay and reverb as master FX, and a single insert FX for each voice individualy giving you stuff like chorus, phaser, flanger, ensemble, distortion etc... a separate simple LO/HIPASS for each channel as well, for making EQ adjustments on individual channels.

That's what I would really like to see from DSI... what the engine should be, is another story... I just really would like a rack/module that would take the job as a workhorse... very few synths with analog filters and amps do that. If they can make a 12 voice P12, they can do a 16 voice as well, and the FX part is already partly implemented in the new P6/OB6 designs... the voice technology could easily be taken from the P12.

I won't even mind if they called it the "Prophet 16" :D
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: BobTheDog on July 11, 2016, 11:49:22 AM
It would be great if they could update the P12 to work like the Modal 002 where you can set it up as a number of synths with different voice counts on different channels.

So you could have a 6 voice poly on channel 1, and then 6 mono synths on channels 2-7 for instance.

I'd pay for that upgrade!
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on July 11, 2016, 12:45:22 PM
It would be great if they could update the P12 to work like the Modal 002 where you can set it up as a number of synths with different voice counts on different channels.

So you could have a 6 voice poly on channel 1, and then 6 mono synths on channels 2-7 for instance.

I'd pay for that upgrade!

I'd rather see it allocate the voices dynamically... it's much more efficient as you will most likely not be playing notes on all channels at the same time... what I like is, when you have 16 channels that you can set up as individual instruments... that makes the multi setup more flexible... even if you only have 16 voices, you could still have 16 different instruments playing at different times... if you allocate voices to a channel, they will not be reused for other instruments when that channel is not used.

Of course a mixed version would be even better... :)

I know that you could use program changes instead, but most synths cut off sounds abruptly when doing this, or gives clicks and pops, so it's not really useful.

But you're right... DSI could update the P12 to work like this I guess... I don't see any hardware restraints in doing that. As it is now, you only have two channels in multi mode, and if one is set to mono mode, then 5 voices are completely wasted... that's why I'd like a dynamic allocation... now I know that it gives some hardware restraints because of the hardwired outputs, but still... if you just decide to use only the main output, it should be perfectly doable.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on July 11, 2016, 01:06:38 PM
It really depends on what you plan to do. If driving a multi-timbral synthesizer from a MPE controller or similar pleasures its way easier to have one voice per channel or two voices per channel in case of stacked sounds and do the voice allocation in software either in the MPE controller or on a computer.

If wanting to use the synthesizer as a flexible studio tool dynamic voice allocation may be a better idea. However, voice allocation in the instrument will be a challenge and could quite likely cause many interesting edge cases including causing the voices you want to ring out be cut short. And so on. Its a complex design/implementation task and who knows if a synthesizer company have the resources to make a solution that is good enough in practical use?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on July 11, 2016, 06:24:44 PM
It really depends on what you plan to do. If driving a multi-timbral synthesizer from a MPE controller or similar pleasures its way easier to have one voice per channel or two voices per channel in case of stacked sounds and do the voice allocation in software either in the MPE controller or on a computer.

If wanting to use the synthesizer as a flexible studio tool dynamic voice allocation may be a better idea. However, voice allocation in the instrument will be a challenge and could quite likely cause many interesting edge cases including causing the voices you want to ring out be cut short. And so on. Its a complex design/implementation task and who knows if a synthesizer company have the resources to make a solution that is good enough in practical use?

Well... digital multitimbral synths exist that does this, so the only problem I can see is the retriggering of the voices if analog parts are involved... with a dynamic voice allocation, a given voice would have to be totaly re-initialized when retriggered, since it will require it to take on different sounds... with the hardwired voice way, you can just initialize the voice once, as you would be certain it is the same when retriggering it.

But with a voice structure like the P12, most is digital, only the VCF and VCA are analog... and if you think about it, the Tempest actualy does it... yes it has some retriggering flaws because of it, but it's only in the analog voices, not the digital ones.

Maybe the current hardware architecture of the P12 is not that well suited anyway... I'm thinking about it's voice based architecture... Dave always use a "master CPU" to take the MIDI computing, and controlling each voice's own DSP chip... I don't know if it is fast enough to change on the fly... or if problems will arise because this communication is one-way only... we have seen how DSI portamento works in polyphonic mode because of this.

Still... I don't see why a new synth could not be made to have dynamic allocation... and I would really like to see one... but I guess I could live even with hardwired voice allocation, it would just be more limited.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on July 12, 2016, 11:59:05 AM
Yeah Razmo, its certainly doable and after all its "just software". However there are some differences between software synthesizers and analog electronics synthesizers. Most notably that in a software synthesizer one already have plenty of software development resources and are only managing data structures whereas in a digitally controlled analog machine one not only have to manage the physics and timing of the controlled analog circuits but also have to be aware that software is only part of the game in the overall engineering of the instrument.

Implementing multi-timbral functionality is mostly a question of data structures, resource management and smart code so it certainly can be done. But I am also trying to be realistic given past events. I mean how would it feel if show stopping issues with the multi-timbral mode would eventually be considered unimportant? With that said I will of cause repeat my past views that I would just LOVE to see future multi-timbral complex voices from any competent manufacturer, especially DSI. And that hopefully with both one/two voice per channel and dynamic voice assign modes as both have their advantages possibly even when it comes to voice setup timing.

At weak moments in the past I have considered offering to help out with such development but of cause that would be extremely stupid of me to enter the dragon's cave without protective measures of any kind. So I better don't do that! ;)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on July 28, 2016, 12:13:41 PM
At this point, DSI will have to produce one impressive poly synth to get me to buy something new.  It's certainly possible, but it would require my selling one of my current instruments.  Having worked so much with my PEKs and P'08s over the last seven years, rather than grow tired of them, I've grown to appreciate their strengths all the more. 

I had saved up about $2,500 for a new instrument, but my car has finally given up the ghost and claimed every synthesizer-bound penny.  Back to the drawing board.  Still, I would love to see DSI produce a successor to the Prophet '08, something a little more complex and with a rawer analog tone, yet, still a clear successor. 
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on July 28, 2016, 12:52:36 PM
At this point, DSI will have to produce one impressive poly synth to get me to buy something new.  It's certainly possible, but it would require my selling one of my current instruments.  Having worked so much with my PEKs and P'08s over the last seven years, rather than grow tired of them, I've grown to appreciate their strengths all the more. 

I had saved up about $2,500 for a new instrument, but my car has finally given up the ghost and claimed every synthesizer-bound penny.  Back to the drawing board.  Still, I would love to see DSI produce a successor to the Prophet '08, something a little more complex and with a rawer analog tone, yet, still a clear successor.

The "Prophetizer 2000" for the price of two cars and a grilled deer.  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on July 28, 2016, 02:01:38 PM
[...] and a grilled deer.  ;D ;D

Well deer is actually quite tasty as long as you do not have to catch it with your own car!

. o O ( :o )

Seriously, Sacred Synthesis, if you look at the current DSI offerings are there any of the machines you really really want? To me it still seems to be a choice between sound a features. So as far as I can see you are still looking for a new machine that will work for you.

Given that you generally want to wait until the OS is stable there could very well be plenty of time to save up for a new synthesizer. It is still pretty annoying the way the funds got spend. And it doesn't make the car/deer experience any more pleasant in any way of cause. But we are talking years as far as new DSI instruments are concerned as far as I can see given our past discussions.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on July 28, 2016, 03:21:34 PM
I'm actually quite happy with my current set up, but I was going to enlarge it.  "Better" to me means more of the same.  But I would love a Prophet '08 in a Prophet 12 package.  If the new instrument is good enough, I'll be willing to part with a PEK for it.  That's what I'm presently hoping for, but these things tend not to go my way.

As for instrument names, I'm willing to go with anything that's venison-themed.  How about the "Doe-pho"?  Or else, the "Prophet 12-Point"?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on July 28, 2016, 03:50:19 PM
As Dave Smith is dreaming up his next new synthesizer, I imagine him tossing and turning all night long.  Finally, his wife turns to him and asks, "Honey, why can't you sleep"?  He answers, "The number, I can't come up with the number.  I've used almost all of them: Pro One, Tetr4, Mopho x4, Prophet 5, Prophet-6, Prophet '08, Prophet 10, Prophet 12.  If I make a Prophet 13, no one will buy it, for fear of bad musical luck!"

In trying to guess what Dave will make next, the first question that comes to mind is the number of voices.  The poor guy; he's almost out of options, other than going with odd numbers.  A Prophet 7 - I don't know.  It just doesn't have that ring to it.  I think the next number should be 10.  Why can't he re-use an instrument name?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on July 28, 2016, 03:52:54 PM
What about 3, 7, 9, and 11? Or maybe only prime numbers? - There you have it: Prophet Prime.  ;D

[Sleazy 1970s advertisment voice on]: "Prophet Prime: Sweet as lime, costs only a dime." [off]
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on July 28, 2016, 03:57:18 PM
Or change "Prophet" to any other word (real or imagined), then all the numbers become immediately available again:  Prophet 6, OB-6, Deer-Seeker-6....
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on July 28, 2016, 03:58:48 PM
Deer-Seeker-6....

Brilliant! Sounds like a woody synth too.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on July 28, 2016, 04:01:31 PM
Deer-Seeker-6....

Brilliant! Sounds like a woody synth too.
Nothing but Sawtooths...
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on July 28, 2016, 04:02:08 PM
Deer-Seeker-6....

Brilliant! Sounds like a woody synth too.
Nothing but Sawtooths...

Yes!
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on July 28, 2016, 04:09:51 PM
I object!  I'm not seeking deer.  How about the "Deer Slayer 10"?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on July 28, 2016, 04:11:22 PM
I object!  I'm not seeking deer.  How about the "Deer Slayer 10"?

Nord already does red keyboards.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on July 28, 2016, 04:17:37 PM
I would gladly part with a Poly Evolver Keyboard for a new ten-voice synthesizer with onboard delay, a high pass filter, long envelope times, a five-octave keyboard, and a Prophet '08 voice architecture.  The only catch is the type and number of oscillators.  I'd be happy with three DCOs, but DSI seems to have moved on from them.  VCOs would be expensive, but DOs would sound only mediocre.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on July 28, 2016, 04:26:33 PM
I object!  I'm not seeking deer.  How about the "Deer Slayer 10"?
Starring Charles Bronson!
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on July 28, 2016, 04:27:08 PM
I object!  I'm not seeking deer.  How about the "Deer Slayer 10"?
Starring Charles Bronson!

Now that was too easy.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on July 28, 2016, 04:29:28 PM
I would gladly part with a Poly Evolver Keyboard for a new ten-voice synthesizer with onboard delay, a high pass filter, long envelope times, a five-octave keyboard, and a Prophet '08 voice architecture.  The only catch is the type and number of oscillators.  I'd be happy with three DCOs, but DSI seems to have moved on from them.  VCOs would be expensive, but DOs would sound only mediocre.

It seems to me that you've already found what you're looking for. I think you're right that DSI might move on form the DCOs soon. I'd assume that the Prophet '08 and the Mopho x4 sell well, but who knows what happens after Behringer releases their budget synth and/or how that will affect the market. Either way, it seems to be safe to say that the Prophet '08 is probably pretty high on the list of the next retirements.

Replacing your current rig with VCOs in terms of voices, would end up being quite expensive, plus: you want more modulation options than the Prophet-6 and OB-6 offer. On the other hand, the Prophet 12 doesn't seem to be quite there yet for you in terms of sound. So that doesn't leave many options except for waiting for what the future brings.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on July 28, 2016, 04:30:14 PM
I object!  I'm not seeking deer.  How about the "Deer Slayer 10"?
Starring Charles Bronson!

Soundtrack by Jimmy Page.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on July 28, 2016, 04:37:22 PM
I object!  I'm not seeking deer.  How about the "Deer Slayer 10"?
Starring Charles Bronson!

Soundtrack by Jimmy Page.
Oddly enough, the sound track for Death Wish (starring Charles Bronson) was done by Herbbie Hancock....  That concludes our trivia moment.

Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on July 28, 2016, 04:39:03 PM
I object!  I'm not seeking deer.  How about the "Deer Slayer 10"?
Starring Charles Bronson!

Soundtrack by Jimmy Page.
Oddly enough, the sound track for Death Wish (starring Charles Bronson) was done by Herbbie Hancock....  That concludes our trivia moment.

Yeah, I was referring to the sequel.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on July 28, 2016, 04:47:10 PM
I would gladly part with a Poly Evolver Keyboard for a new ten-voice synthesizer with onboard delay, a high pass filter, long envelope times, a five-octave keyboard, and a Prophet '08 voice architecture.  The only catch is the type and number of oscillators.  I'd be happy with three DCOs, but DSI seems to have moved on from them.  VCOs would be expensive, but DOs would sound only mediocre.

It seems to me that you've already found what you're looking for. I think you're right that DSI might move on form the DCOs soon. I'd assume that the Prophet '08 and the Mopho x4 sell well, but who knows what happens after Behringer releases their budget synth and/or how that will affect the market. Either way, it seems to be safe to say that the Prophet '08 is probably pretty high on the list of the next retirements.

Replacing your current rig with VCOs in terms of voices, would end up being quite expensive, plus: you want more modulation options than the Prophet-6 and OB-6 offer. On the other hand, the Prophet 12 doesn't seem to be quite there yet for you in terms of sound. So that doesn't leave many options except for waiting for what the future brings.

And that's my plan: be content with what I have, and meanwhile, watch what DSI cooks up next.  Again, I'd love an enlarged Prophet '08.  A couple more voices, a couple more DCOs, and a few more features.  But I still would like to get a really raw bona fide analog instrument into my set up.

On the other hand, it's hard not to wonder if DSI will finally produce a pure digital instrument, something like a modern Wave Station or Prophet VS.  It would be a fine way to round out the DSI line up, as long as the Prophet '08 was still around.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on July 28, 2016, 04:50:13 PM
I object!  I'm not seeking deer.  How about the "Deer Slayer 10"?
Starring Charles Bronson!

Soundtrack by Jimmy Page.
Oddly enough, the sound track for Death Wish (starring Charles Bronson) was done by Herbbie Hancock....  That concludes our trivia moment.

Yeah, I was referring to the sequel.

Boy, this is thee place for high culture.  The things I've learned from you guys!
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on July 28, 2016, 05:23:19 PM
I object!  I'm not seeking deer.  How about the "Deer Slayer 10"?
Starring Charles Bronson!

Soundtrack by Jimmy Page.
Oddly enough, the sound track for Death Wish (starring Charles Bronson) was done by Herbbie Hancock....  That concludes our trivia moment.

Yeah, I was referring to the sequel.
There was a sequel?!?!
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on July 28, 2016, 06:14:12 PM
I object!  I'm not seeking deer.  How about the "Deer Slayer 10"?
Starring Charles Bronson!

Soundtrack by Jimmy Page.
Oddly enough, the sound track for Death Wish (starring Charles Bronson) was done by Herbbie Hancock....  That concludes our trivia moment.

Yeah, I was referring to the sequel.
There was a sequel?!?!

Two in fact.  ;D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ckg-D6dMLw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ckg-D6dMLw)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDuQxOIvVx8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDuQxOIvVx8)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on July 28, 2016, 06:24:36 PM
I object!  I'm not seeking deer.  How about the "Deer Slayer 10"?
Starring Charles Bronson!

Soundtrack by Jimmy Page.
Oddly enough, the sound track for Death Wish (starring Charles Bronson) was done by Herbbie Hancock....  That concludes our trivia moment.

Yeah, I was referring to the sequel.

Boy, this is thee place for high culture.  The things I've learned from you guys!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glx_kpo3wAI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glx_kpo3wAI)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on July 28, 2016, 06:28:22 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glx_kpo3wAI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glx_kpo3wAI)
Damn you!  ;)
Too bad that white prophet 12 didn't come with autotune and a mic input built in.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: eXode on August 02, 2016, 04:11:36 AM
I would actually like to see a MoPho X6. Give it 49 keys. It could be priced at $1200 - $1250 USD. :)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: goodweather on August 02, 2016, 04:56:09 AM
For me a 12 voice, two timbral P6/OB6 with the modulation abilities of the P12/P2 would be a definate buy.

Same for me!
With (or without) the P12/Pro2 interface which is great
At least bi-timbral (even better with multi-timbral voice allocation)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on August 02, 2016, 05:24:44 PM
If there's to be a new DSI flagship, then that's the most obvious blend: the P12-P6 masterpiece, which would certainly cross the $3,000 mark.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on September 20, 2016, 02:59:50 AM
If there's to be a new DSI flagship, then that's the most obvious blend: the P12-P6 masterpiece, which would certainly cross the $3,000 mark.

I'm not sure whether that would be a realistic scenario. The design philosphy with regard to DSI's whole catalog has always been to develop instruments of which each covers a specific set of options and sound generation tools without too many overlaps between the single devices. And while there have been groups of instruments like the Prophet '08, Mopho, and Tetra for example, or the Evolver line, there has never really been an instrument that does it all in one package. In that sense, I'd expect that the closest you'll get to a P12-P6 masterpiece in the long run is in fact going to be a combination of a Prophet 12 and a Prophet-6, or two of the latter for the sake of an equal voice number.

I also don't think that DSI is a company that has one flagship. At least with regard to polyphonic keyboard synthesizers I currently see them offering three flagships: the Prophet 12, the Prophet-6, and the OB-6.

Beyond speculating about specific designs, I think it's safe to assume that the following instruments won't happen (anytime soon):
- a new drum machine
- a monophonic version of either the Prophet-6 or the OB-6
- a bigger version of either the Prophet-6 or the OB-6
- a desktop version of the Pro 2
- just about any combination of the above in the manner of just putting two or more instruments into one box

That said, I'd expect something that differs substantially from synths like the Prophet 12 and a classic analog synth like the Prophet-6 or the OB-6. And while the latter two are gorgeous synths, one wouldn't go too far by describing them as the most conservative designs that DSI have ever developed. I don't mean that in a derogatory way, but very much in the sense of Dave saying "it's 1979 again." Taking into account that the (re-)development of the classic analog polysynth design has kept DSI busy from the latter half of 2014 up to the release of the OB-6 (besides the occasional firmware maintenance of course), I would strongly assume that the odds are in favor of a different direction now.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on September 20, 2016, 12:15:58 PM
There are only so many possible variations on the analog poly synth theme.  It seems that DSI has covered these, as well as two hybrid designs, so a little redundancy could be understandable.  I would expect to see either a new instrument that could worthily replace the Prophet '08, or perhaps a mostly/entirely digital instrument closer to the VS tradition. 

As long as I'm well-supplied in the analog department, then I'd be entirely in favor of a purely digital synthesizer.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on September 20, 2016, 12:41:31 PM
There are only so many possible variations on the analog poly synth theme.  It seems that DSI has covered these, as well as two hybrid designs, so a little redundancy could be understandable.  I would expect to see either a new instrument that could worthily replace the Prophet '08, or perhaps a mostly/entirely digital instrument closer to the VS tradition. 

As long as I'm well-supplied in the analog department, then I'd be entirely in favor of a purely digital synthesizer.
As much as I hate to prophesize, I think you're probably on to something, something in the vein of the VS is a logical next creation.
Unless of course they're opening up an area of synthesis we've never seen before… Which I think is what everybody is really waiting for.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on September 20, 2016, 12:56:09 PM
What sort of area could you imagine?

Dave is brilliant and inventive, but he always pours this into a fairly traditional synthesizer form, such as the Prophet 12.  I think there's still room for another member or two in the Prophet analog line.  But a break from this into an Evolver/VS/Wavestation type of instrument would be very refreshing and exciting.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: chysn on September 20, 2016, 01:00:42 PM
There are only so many possible variations on the analog poly synth theme.  It seems that DSI has covered these, as well as two hybrid designs, so a little redundancy could be understandable.  I would expect to see either a new instrument that could worthily replace the Prophet '08, or perhaps a mostly/entirely digital instrument closer to the VS tradition. 

As long as I'm well-supplied in the analog department, then I'd be entirely in favor of a purely digital synthesizer.

It may be of interest here to note that the Dave Smith Modular DSM03 Feedback Module is shipping around October 10th. DSI describes it as an "all-digital module" (see http://forum.davesmithinstruments.com/index.php/topic,476.msg8586.html#msg8586). So presumably, this includes the DSM03's lowpass filter. It's possible that they designed a new digital filter just for this one module, but how likely is that?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on September 20, 2016, 01:01:11 PM
There are only so many possible variations on the analog poly synth theme.  It seems that DSI has covered these, as well as two hybrid designs, so a little redundancy could be understandable.  I would expect to see either a new instrument that could worthily replace the Prophet '08, or perhaps a mostly/entirely digital instrument closer to the VS tradition. 

As long as I'm well-supplied in the analog department, then I'd be entirely in favor of a purely digital synthesizer.

Certainly. That's why I personally wouldn't expect another analog poly synth any time soon, not even a successor to the Prophet '08. Now the cat is out of the bag with regard to the DSM03 module and its digital filter, an entirely digital synth might even be a possibility.

Edit: chysn was faster.  ;)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on September 20, 2016, 01:04:39 PM
There are only so many possible variations on the analog poly synth theme.  It seems that DSI has covered these, as well as two hybrid designs, so a little redundancy could be understandable.  I would expect to see either a new instrument that could worthily replace the Prophet '08, or perhaps a mostly/entirely digital instrument closer to the VS tradition. 

As long as I'm well-supplied in the analog department, then I'd be entirely in favor of a purely digital synthesizer.

It may be of interest here to note that the Dave Smith Modular DSM03 Feedback Module is shipping around October 10th. DSI describes it as an "all-digital module" (see http://forum.davesmithinstruments.com/index.php/topic,476.msg8586.html#msg8586). So presumably, this includes the DSM03's lowpass filter. It's possible that they designed a new digital filter just for this one module, but how likely is that?

Yes, it could be the first stage of a new digital instrument.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on September 20, 2016, 01:07:56 PM
There are only so many possible variations on the analog poly synth theme.  It seems that DSI has covered these, as well as two hybrid designs, so a little redundancy could be understandable.  I would expect to see either a new instrument that could worthily replace the Prophet '08, or perhaps a mostly/entirely digital instrument closer to the VS tradition. 

As long as I'm well-supplied in the analog department, then I'd be entirely in favor of a purely digital synthesizer.

Certainly. That's why I personally wouldn't expect another analog poly synth any time soon, not even a successor to the Prophet '08. Now the cat is out of the bag with regard to the DSM03 module and its digital filter, an entirely digital synth might even be a possibility.

If the Prophet '08 doesn't have a successor, then I'll fill my music room with a dozen keyboard and module units of the original!  It's just perfect for my uses.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on September 20, 2016, 01:14:16 PM
What sort of area could you imagine?

Attached is a little overview/inventory about digital synthesis models from Julius O. Smith's article "Viewpoints on the History of Digital Synthesis" (Center for Computer Research in Music and Acoustics, Department of Music, Stanford University, December 28, 2005). So that's one starting point.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on September 20, 2016, 01:19:40 PM
If the Prophet '08 doesn't have a successor, then I'll fill my music room with a dozen keyboard and module units of the original!  It's just perfect for my uses.

I'm just assuming that it would seem slightly redundant to release yet another analog poly synth after the Prophet-6 and the OB-6, even though the Prophet '08's architecture differs dramatically from those two.

On a different note: The only aspects that haven't been recycled after the discontinuation of the Evolvers are a true stereo signal path, stereo inputs, a filter split option, ring modulation, the option to upload user wavetables, and of course a hybrid front end.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on September 20, 2016, 01:34:51 PM
Yes, I'm amazed that the stereo hardwired oscillators haven't become standardized on DSI synths.  After all, if you don't like it, you can tweak them into mono.

It's in vain, but I do wish DSI would issue a new Poly Evolver with clean digital oscillators.  It would be quite the treat to be able to use those messy tones over the whole range of the keyboard.  The digital aliasing is the only flaw of the instrument that ever bothered me.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on September 20, 2016, 02:21:36 PM
If the Prophet '08 doesn't have a successor, then I'll fill my music room with a dozen keyboard and module units of the original!  It's just perfect for my uses.

Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on September 20, 2016, 07:53:22 PM
Perfect!  I'll take the whole pile, please.  Wait a minute...no Tetras?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: eXode on September 25, 2016, 04:47:47 AM
Low chance of happening but I'd like to see 49 key MoPho X6, or something similar distilled from the synth portion of the Tempest design.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: chysn on September 30, 2016, 08:41:17 PM
Certainly. That's why I personally wouldn't expect another analog poly synth any time soon, not even a successor to the Prophet '08. Now the cat is out of the bag with regard to the DSM03 module and its digital filter, an entirely digital synth might even be a possibility.

But here's the description of the DSM03 on ModularGrid (https://www.modulargrid.net/e/dave-smith-modular-dsm03-feedback), saying it's an analog filter:

"We took the feedback feature originally in the Evolver (also on the Pro 2, and Prophet 12), the idea is you have a tuned feedback loop that takes the audio output, runs it back through the analogue filter, and then through a delay line... so you can do Karplus-Strong synthesis with it, or you can just use if for mangling sounds" - Dave Smith

So who knows what to think. DSI hasn't addressed any questions about the filter, so we'll just have to wait like two whole weeks. I've pre-ordered the DSM03, and as soon as it arrives, I'll post a demo of the filter.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on October 01, 2016, 02:31:32 PM
Certainly. That's why I personally wouldn't expect another analog poly synth any time soon, not even a successor to the Prophet '08. Now the cat is out of the bag with regard to the DSM03 module and its digital filter, an entirely digital synth might even be a possibility.

But here's the description of the DSM03 on ModularGrid (https://www.modulargrid.net/e/dave-smith-modular-dsm03-feedback), saying it's an analog filter:

"We took the feedback feature originally in the Evolver (also on the Pro 2, and Prophet 12), the idea is you have a tuned feedback loop that takes the audio output, runs it back through the analogue filter, and then through a delay line... so you can do Karplus-Strong synthesis with it, or you can just use if for mangling sounds" - Dave Smith

So who knows what to think. DSI hasn't addressed any questions about the filter, so we'll just have to wait like two whole weeks. I've pre-ordered the DSM03, and as soon as it arrives, I'll post a demo of the filter.

That's strange. But I would tend to believe what Robot Heart wrote in the according sub forum, and what Carson and Andy told me at Summer NAMM. I'm also not sure about whether that description from ModularGrid is official. Why would DSI use the British spelling of the word "analog"? - Plus: Why would they post a description on ModularGrid before even announcing and describing the DSM03 on their official site? Makes no sense to me.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: chysn on October 01, 2016, 06:01:15 PM
That's strange. But I would tend to believe what Robot Heart wrote in the according sub forum, and what Carson and Andy told me at Summer NAMM. I'm also not sure about whether that description from ModularGrid is official. Why would DSI use the British spelling of the word "analog"? - Plus: Why would they post a description on ModularGrid before even announcing and describing the DSM03 on their official site? Makes no sense to me.

extempo identified the quote from a Sonic State interview with Dave Smith (in the first part of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjy_6lH3IxQ). I expect the spelling of analog was the choice of the transcriber. extempo's explanation makes sense in this context, being that Mr Smith was describing the feedback of the Evolver, Pro2, etc., and not directly speaking about the DSM03's filter.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on October 02, 2016, 01:58:45 AM
extempo identified the quote from a Sonic State interview with Dave Smith (in the first part of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjy_6lH3IxQ). I expect the spelling of analog was the choice of the transcriber. extempo's explanation makes sense in this context, being that Mr Smith was describing the feedback of the Evolver, Pro2, etc., and not directly speaking about the DSM03's filter.

Makes perfect sense. Thanks for the update!
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: DavidDever on November 10, 2016, 01:06:48 PM
Whatever the new new DSI instrument is–chances are, it will neither be inexpensive nor lightweight (from an embedded software perspective):

https://www.davesmithinstruments.com/2016/11/dave-smith-instruments-hiring/

In fact–those areas of expertise are not far removed from those required for in-dash infotainment systems....
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on November 10, 2016, 01:19:45 PM
Whatever the new new DSI instrument is–chances are, it will neither be inexpensive nor lightweight (from an embedded software perspective):

https://www.davesmithinstruments.com/2016/11/dave-smith-instruments-hiring/

In fact–those areas of expertise are not far removed from those required for in-dash infotainment systems....

Or maybe the next instrument is going to require a navigation system.  ;D
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on November 10, 2016, 01:26:56 PM
Or scuba gear! . o O ( menu diving )

Seriously, lets hope DSI wants not only to have more development muscle in their software department but also maintain their existing products more and better. That would be a constructive step forward from the current mode of operation.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on November 10, 2016, 01:36:42 PM
Or scuba gear! . o O ( menu diving )

Haha!

Seriously, lets hope DSI wants not only to have more development muscle in their software department but also maintain their existing products more and better. That would be a constructive step forward from the current mode of operation.

It's definitely an encouraging move that is going to ease the balance between new developments and further maintenance.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on November 10, 2016, 01:41:51 PM
It's definitely an encouraging move that is going to ease the balance between new developments and further maintenance.

Of cause depending on how this extra resource is used and managed! Not to mention the amount of time it will take the new hire to dive into the code base and fully understand it.

. o O ( RTFS )
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on November 10, 2016, 02:12:09 PM
Seriously, lets hope DSI wants not only to have more development muscle in their software department but also maintain their existing products more and better. That would be a constructive step forward from the current mode of operation.

Possibly?

https://www.davesmithinstruments.com/2016/11/dave-smith-instruments-hiring/
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: eXode on November 10, 2016, 03:50:00 PM
Seriously, lets hope DSI wants not only to have more development muscle in their software department but also maintain their existing products more and better. That would be a constructive step forward from the current mode of operation.

Possibly?

https://www.davesmithinstruments.com/2016/11/dave-smith-instruments-hiring/

Seems like it. Microchip PIC was used up to whatever product was released before the Prophet 12 and Pro 2 as far as I know. The Prophet 12 and Pro 2 both use Sharc DSP, and I'm pretty sure the Prophet-6 and OB-6 does too (they have digital FX after all).

Sounds to me that they're looking for someone to both maintain the old and handle the new.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on November 10, 2016, 04:11:13 PM
I got the impression that DSI use PIC for the MIDI related main processor stuff and Sharc DSP for voice processors. So both are relevant for new products.

Also there is a difference between extending a team and actually change company policies. Hence the new versus maintenance hope expression!
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on November 11, 2016, 02:44:20 AM
Microchip PIC was used up to whatever product was released before the Prophet 12 and Pro 2 as far as I know. The Prophet 12 and Pro 2 both use Sharc DSP, and I'm pretty sure the Prophet-6 and OB-6 does too (they have digital FX after all).

Sounds to me that they're looking for someone to both maintain the old and handle the new.

You are correct, both Sharc DSPs and PIC Microchips are also used in the Prophet-6 (and the OB-6 for that matter).

You can see them both in the video I did about the inside of the Prophet-6 from about the 8:17 mark on: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0_B6jREjCo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0_B6jREjCo)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: proteus-ix on November 11, 2016, 03:44:36 PM
It's definitely an encouraging move that is going to ease the balance between new developments and further maintenance.

Of cause depending on how this extra resource is used and managed! Not to mention the amount of time it will take the new hire to dive into the code base and fully understand it.

. o O ( RTFS )

Well I'm sure they'll just be getting everyone's coffee upgrading Java for the first few weeks anyway.   ;D
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: chysn on November 11, 2016, 06:39:33 PM
Well I'm sure they'll just be getting everyone's coffee upgrading Java for the first few weeks anyway.   ;D

HA HA!
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: DavidDever on November 12, 2016, 04:37:16 AM
Well I'm sure they'll just be getting everyone's coffee upgrading Java for the first few weeks anyway.   ;D

With anything Eclipse-based, so true....
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: eXode on November 13, 2016, 07:02:04 AM
8 voice based on the Prophet-6/OB-6 with the Pro 2 filter setup (i.e. Prophet LPF + SEM SVF) with minimum 2 LFO's, and 61 keys.
There could be a deluxe version with 12 voices, and 73 keys as well. (:
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on November 13, 2016, 08:14:14 AM
[...] and 61 keys.
There could be a deluxe version with 12 voices, and 73 keys as well. (:

There is always the module option (hopefully). With the advent of newer more compact and possibly more expressive controllers modules could very well be more expressive. Especially when/if DSI supports MPE and multi-timbral modes.

Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on November 13, 2016, 08:28:10 AM
Well I'm sure they'll just be getting everyone's coffee upgrading Java for the first few weeks anyway.   ;D

Never say never but I serious doubt DSI would ever sink so low use Java given they are doing embedded real-time programming for their products. I am sure their highly automated IoT (aka Internet of Traps) coffee machine are working hard on infecting all their other computers whenever it can. But that's just a fact of life these days. ;)

Starting on a new software developer job with DSI's level of OS complexity are surely going to feel like climbing plenty of nasty cliffs the first couple of months. So I cross fingers for a good recruitment process and hope this person will make a positive difference not only in developing new products but also making older products getting better updates faster.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on November 13, 2016, 08:29:29 AM
8 voice based on the Prophet-6/OB-6 with the Pro 2 filter setup (i.e. Prophet LPF + SEM SVF) with minimum 2 LFO's, and 61 keys.

Bull's-eye!  This sounds to me like the most reasonable and natural choice, combining DSI's best achievements to date.  Add the usual module version and I'm onboard. 
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on November 13, 2016, 08:32:07 AM
8 voice based on the Prophet-6/OB-6 with the Pro 2 filter setup (i.e. Prophet LPF + SEM SVF) with minimum 2 LFO's, and 61 keys.
There could be a deluxe version with 12 voices, and 73 keys as well. (:

I can't really see anything like that happening, especially since one could put together a similar instrument already by connecting Prophet-6 and OB-6 modules to a larger keyboard. The rest is too much of a recombination of what has already been done by DSI/Sequential. Given that DSI have many more ideas to be realized, an 8-voice reconfiguration of what has essentially just been released seems to be highly unlikely.

I mean, they'd have to develop completely new voice-cards with the hybrid filter design you've mentioned without gaining anything fundamentally new in the end. And I don't think one extra LFO and two extra voices alone would justify the amount of work that would still have to be done.

And I'm also pretty sure that we'll never see synths again that look remotely like a Prophet T8.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on November 13, 2016, 08:34:37 AM
8 voice based on the Prophet-6/OB-6 with the Pro 2 filter setup (i.e. Prophet LPF + SEM SVF) with minimum 2 LFO's, and 61 keys.
There could be a deluxe version with 12 voices, and 73 keys as well. (:

I can't really see anything like that happening, especially since one could put together a similar instrument already by connecting Prophet-6 and OB-6 modules to a larger keyboard.

I think Exode's idea would be a fitting replacement for the Prophet '08.

Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on November 13, 2016, 08:46:23 AM
8 voice based on the Prophet-6/OB-6 with the Pro 2 filter setup (i.e. Prophet LPF + SEM SVF) with minimum 2 LFO's, and 61 keys.
There could be a deluxe version with 12 voices, and 73 keys as well. (:

I can't really see anything like that happening, especially since one could put together a similar instrument already by connecting Prophet-6 and OB-6 modules to a larger keyboard.

I think Exode's idea would be a fitting replacement for the Prophet '08.

I get that thought. I guess I'm just trying to keep expectations low with reference to what has already been done by DSI. The last 2 years were basically dedicated to analog synths already, which is one reason why I don't believe that we're going to see a third one in 2017. Plus: The Prophet '08 is still around.

But even if DSI produced a Prophet '08 successor built on what they did with the Prophet-6 and the OB-6, it would certainly not be in the price category of the Prophet '08 anymore. They'd either had to lower the prices of the Prophet-6 and the OB-6, or it would end up costing something around $4,000, which I think is a rather realistic estimate. Now, how many of you would then actually yell, "Cool, finally a Prophet '08 successor for just 4 grand"?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on November 13, 2016, 08:52:56 AM
One could argue that using the analog and digital ingredients developed from Prophet 12 and on gives many interesting options for new and very interesting voice architectures. One could hope for more complex voices with a larger sound palette in the coming years.

. o O ( same old rant )
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on November 13, 2016, 09:01:31 AM
How many of you would then actually yell, "Cool, finally a Prophet '08 successor for just 4 grand"?

Bing!  I'd be more than happy to sacrifice one of my Prophet '08s to fund such an instrument.  And if it was good enough, I'd sacrifice a Poly Evolver Keyboard as well.  This is just the direction I've wanted to go for several years - larger analog polyphonic instruments.  I've got my finger on Craigslist, ready to go!

DSI tends not to take drastic turns.  They lumber along with instruments that are superb and moderately brilliant, but one kind of follows from another.  They all look like members of the same family, both in appearance and on the spec sheet.  Even a Prophet 12 resembles a Prophet '08.  Nor are the Prophet-6 and OB-6 so odd in the line up.  So don't be surprised if they don't surprise us.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on November 13, 2016, 09:10:45 AM
One could argue that using the analog and digital ingredients developed from Prophet 12 and on gives many interesting options for new and very interesting voice architectures. One could hope for more complex voices with a larger sound palette in the coming years.

. o O ( same old rant )

Many ingredients have certainly been developed over the last years, but I think it's unrealistic that there's going to be anything like an Uber-Prophet in the end.

After all, a certain degree of limitation has always been an important factor for DSI's instrument design, leading to instruments that are good at particular things in order to find the right balance between features and ergonomics. If everything would be possible at the same time, the user would become overwhelmed by all the available choices. And let's not forget that there are already serious amounts of choices provided with the Prophet 12 and Pro 2.

In that sense, I'm with you and positive about new or different voice architectures in the future that could offer something neither the Prophet-6/OB-6 nor the Prophet 12/Pro 2 do.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on November 13, 2016, 09:26:52 AM
After all, a certain degree of limitation has always been an important factor for DSI's instrument design......
And let's not forget that there are already serious amounts of choices provided with the Prophet 12 and Pro 2.


Yep... that sounds like spot on analysis.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: eXode on November 13, 2016, 09:43:18 AM
How many of you would then actually yell, "Cool, finally a Prophet '08 successor for just 4 grand"?

If it's a Prophet'08 successor with the aforementioned features? YES! :D

It's just a couple of hundred US$ more than the Model D reissue, and less than the Voyager XL. ;)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on November 13, 2016, 09:53:07 AM
How many of you would then actually yell, "Cool, finally a Prophet '08 successor for just 4 grand"?

Bing!  I'd be more than happy to sacrifice one of my Prophet '08s to fund such an instrument.  And if it was good enough, I'd sacrifice a Poly Evolver Keyboard as well.  This is just the direction I've wanted to go for several years - larger analog polyphonic instruments.  I've got my finger on Craigslist, ready to go!

Which is fine. I'm just afraid that the general response to that could be a tad different though, that's all.

DSI tends not to take drastic turns.  They lumber along with instruments that are superb and moderately brilliant, but one kind of follows from another.  They all look like members of the same family, both in appearance and on a spec sheet.  Even a Prophet 12 resembles a Prophet '08.  Nor are the Prophet-6 and OB-6 so odd in the line up.  So don't be surprised if they don't surprise us.

I agree on the not too drastic turns, but there are still possible features and voice architectures that haven't been implemented yet in any of DSI's current ranges. Plus: with the entry price market being pretty much factored out by now, there's going to be less "recycling" in the way we saw it with the Prophet-Tetra-Mopho family.

The single instrument's or engine's families become smaller. The family tree of the Prophet '08 included 7 instruments/variations at its peak (Prophet '08 keyboard and module, Mopho, Mopho keyboard, Mopho SE, Mopho x4, and Tetra) while the Evolver series consisted of 4 instruments. That alone gave a different impression of not too drastic turns. None of the more recent engines (everything from 2013 on) are represented that way anymore. These days it's basically one main synth plus a desktop module version with the Pro 2 being the exception to that rule.

Also, the more recent instruments' engines are more different than their predecessor's ones. The Prophet '08 and the Evolver have much more in common in terms of features and overall structure than the Prophet 12 and the Prophet-6 for example. The latter are just further apart than the former, offering a more wide-spread diversity. With entry level priced offsprings becoming less relevant for DSI due to the current market situation, I assume that they'd rather channel their energy towards broadening their range of instruments, especially since the Prophet 12/Pro 2 and the Prophet-6/OB-6 are here to stay for a little longer.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on November 13, 2016, 10:01:57 AM
How many of you would then actually yell, "Cool, finally a Prophet '08 successor for just 4 grand"?

If it's a Prophet'08 successor with the aforementioned features? YES! :D

It's just a couple of hundred US$ more than the Model D reissue, and less than the Voyager XL. ;)

Okay, maybe I was assuming a too optimistic price.  ;D
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: eXode on November 13, 2016, 10:19:30 AM
I'm curious to learn whether DSI will adopt the new CEM3340 in an upcoming product (provided that it's VCO based). Should help bring down costs a little, esp if we're talking about a VCO based Prophet 08 successor.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on November 13, 2016, 10:29:45 AM
Also, the more recent instruments' engines are more different than their predecessor's ones.

Right, but I think the P'08 and P12 are clearly related; the P12 just has more to it.  The respective voice architectures share much common ground.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: DavidDever on November 13, 2016, 06:17:37 PM
I'm curious to learn whether DSI will adopt the new CEM3340 in an upcoming product (provided that it's VCO based). Should help bring down costs a little, esp if we're talking about a VCO based Prophet 08 successor.

I don't believe this will happen.

There is too much advantage to the use of an in-house, custom design based on discrete commodity ICs and components, versus the sourcing of low-volume custom or specialty ICs such as the CEM reissues (or the Marion / DSI ICs used in the Evolver / Prophet '08, etc.). And I'd be really surprised if the issues with SSM 20xx ICs back in the Prophet-5 days would not frame the question of sourcing a core functional component from a third-party manufacturer in anything but a negative light.

Ask yourself how many fantastic-sounding, expensive polyphonic synthesizers could easily be crippled (or cannibalized) by the lack of suitable replacement ICs (or low-volume specialty components)–the Roland Jupiter-8 comes to mind, as does the OB-Xa (wonder why there are so many OB-Xas on the used market at the moment?)–and you have an answer as to why a re-issue VCO IC does not make sense for a "pro" instrument....
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: eXode on November 14, 2016, 01:15:43 AM
I'm curious to learn whether DSI will adopt the new CEM3340 in an upcoming product (provided that it's VCO based). Should help bring down costs a little, esp if we're talking about a VCO based Prophet 08 successor.

I don't believe this will happen.

There is too much advantage to the use of an in-house, custom design based on discrete commodity ICs and components, versus the sourcing of low-volume custom or specialty ICs such as the CEM reissues (or the Marion / DSI ICs used in the Evolver / Prophet '08, etc.). And I'd be really surprised if the issues with SSM 20xx ICs back in the Prophet-5 days would not frame the question of sourcing a core functional component from a third-party manufacturer in anything but a negative light.

Ask yourself how many fantastic-sounding, expensive polyphonic synthesizers could easily be crippled (or cannibalized) by the lack of suitable replacement ICs (or low-volume specialty components)–the Roland Jupiter-8 comes to mind, as does the OB-Xa (wonder why there are so many OB-Xas on the used market at the moment?)–and you have an answer as to why a re-issue VCO IC does not make sense for a "pro" instrument....

I don't agree with your assessment and I don't find your explanation very logical or reasonable, sorry. :)

I never mentioned the SSM20XX IC's so I don't know why you bring them up. Regarding the CEM3340 in particular - are they known to be prone to break down? And before you answer - Are you considering the age of all the instruments out there, and can you account for how they've been treated along the years, considering most of them are them are over 30 years old?

Apparently the CEM3340 was good enough for Dieter Doepfer to revive, despite the fact that he already offers various other designs of his own. :)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: DavidDever on November 14, 2016, 08:41:46 AM
I don't agree with your assessment and I don't find your explanation very logical or reasonable, sorry. :)

I never mentioned the SSM20XX IC's so I don't know why you bring them up. Regarding the CEM3340 in particular - are they known to be prone to break down? And before you answer - Are you considering the age of all the instruments out there, and can you account for how they've been treated along the years, considering most of them are them are over 30 years old?

Apparently the CEM3340 was good enough for Dieter Doepfer to revive, despite the fact that he already offers various other designs of his own. :)

http://www.matrixsynth.com/2016/06/curtis-cem3340-vco-chips-re-issued.html

Quote
DSI wasn’t involved in the reissue and if anyone would like to find out more about it, they should contact susanonchip@covad.net directly.

I don't see any mention in there regarding a surface-mounted version–do you? For many manufacturers, that would in itself be a deal breaker. It would also constrain space in terms of board height / clearance between adjacent voice cards, compared to an all-discrete, surface-mount component design.

Also - even though these ICs might be relatively inexpensive in production quantities, wouldn't another run of the existing (Curtis-based) Marion / DSI ICs used in the Prophet '08 / Mopho simply make more sense (fewer cross-connections, shorter signal paths, less required PCB space, etc.)–especially once you consider two oscillators per voice–if your concern was the reduction of parts count?

I don't see Doepfer's requirements (single-voice, single-oscillator Eurorack modules) and DSI's (multi-voice, multi-oscillator integrated main PCBs) overlapping–do you?

I believe that there's more interest in this part from a vintage perspective, than a modern production one, especially given the fact that DSI already has at least two different in-house, discrete VCO designs to choose from–or can utilize DSP-based digital oscillators that have already been said (by Dave Smith himself) to improve upon the performance of VCOs (in general) with regard to stability / external support parts count, etc.

I'm lucky to have worked as both a service & repair technician as well as an audio products engineering consultant, so my perspective on this might be a little different–your mileage may vary. And I could very well be wrong.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: eXode on November 14, 2016, 09:53:35 AM
I don't agree with your assessment and I don't find your explanation very logical or reasonable, sorry. :)

I never mentioned the SSM20XX IC's so I don't know why you bring them up. Regarding the CEM3340 in particular - are they known to be prone to break down? And before you answer - Are you considering the age of all the instruments out there, and can you account for how they've been treated along the years, considering most of them are them are over 30 years old?

Apparently the CEM3340 was good enough for Dieter Doepfer to revive, despite the fact that he already offers various other designs of his own. :)

http://www.matrixsynth.com/2016/06/curtis-cem3340-vco-chips-re-issued.html

Quote
DSI wasn’t involved in the reissue and if anyone would like to find out more about it, they should contact susanonchip@covad.net directly.

I don't see any mention in there regarding a surface-mounted version–do you? For many manufacturers, that would in itself be a deal breaker. It would also constrain space in terms of board height / clearance between adjacent voice cards, compared to an all-discrete, surface-mount component design.

Also - even though these ICs might be relatively inexpensive in production quantities, wouldn't another run of the existing (Curtis-based) Marion / DSI ICs used in the Prophet '08 / Mopho simply make more sense (fewer cross-connections, shorter signal paths, less required PCB space, etc.)–especially once you consider two oscillators per voice–if your concern was the reduction of parts count?

I don't see Doepfer's requirements (single-voice, single-oscillator Eurorack modules) and DSI's (multi-voice, multi-oscillator integrated main PCBs) overlapping–do you?

I believe that there's more interest in this part from a vintage perspective, than a modern production one, especially given the fact that DSI already has at least two different in-house, discrete VCO designs to choose from–or can utilize DSP-based digital oscillators that have already been said (by Dave Smith himself) to improve upon the performance of VCOs (in general) with regard to stability / external support parts count, etc.

I'm lucky to have worked as both a service & repair technician as well as an audio products engineering consultant, so my perspective on this might be a little different–your mileage may vary. And I could very well be wrong.

There are (almost) always solutions to a problem. There are IC Sockets etc that could be used even with SMD (should be used if you ask me), etc. For me the interesting question is whether a CEM3340 solution would be cheaper than the discrete components used in the Prophet-6/OB-6. The CEM3340 is a very nicely speced oscillator in my opinion. Since it's triangle core based it offers very clean waveforms (esp triangle and sine), and it also different forms of sync as well as linear FM.

I can't comment on if it makes more sense to use the already used "synth on a chip" again, but my perspective was from using VCO's in a Prophet 08 successor and not DCOs.

Also not sure why it matters that Doepfers oscillators are monophonic, there's an abundance of poly synths in the past from all (at the time) major players that used the CEM3340, and that ties in to my previous point.

However, I accept the possibility that using the discrete components might be cheaper than the 3340 and that space might become an issue if DSI were to use the voice board design they currently use (and they should) on both the Prophet-6 and the OB-6. :)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: eXode on November 15, 2016, 07:53:11 AM
I think that the Korg Monologue (and to some extent the Minibrute) has some interesting concepts with regards to the wave shaping VCO. It would be quite cool if DSI adopted something similar for a new VCO instrument. I.e. set choices between triangle, sawtooth, and pulse, but with different shape (PW on pulse) options on each wave, and then a new switchable 2/4 pole filter with LP/BP/HP modes. This instrument could very well follow the traditional 6 voice formula for most of the part. A minimum of 2 LFO's would be great though. :)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on November 15, 2016, 08:24:32 AM
Discussions about new synthesizers are invariably discussions about features.  They become wish lists of multiple functions, new capabilities, and ground-breaking technology.  Personally, I'm entirely content with DSI's current array of features.  I'm not wishing for anything new, any technology-breaking designs.  Between the Poly Evolver, Prophet '08, Prophet 12, Pro 2, Prophet-6, and OB-6, I need no additional capabilities.  They're all there; the only thing that remains is composing and recording music with them.  As far as I'm concerned, the research is complete and the feature set finished.  I want only one thing now: the best of what has been achieved in a large musical instrument.  That's all that matters to me now, all that catches and excites my imagination.

First of musical interest is the keyboard: give it five octaves, velocity, aftertouch, and a firm high-quality synthesizer-type action.  As for the rest, I have no need of composing a long spec sheet.  Just make the finished product large!  Four oscillators (either all DCOs, all VCOs, or 2 of either with 2 digital oscillators), and then the standard DSI architecture within the '08-12 tradition.  I could be happy with a dozen different feature sets, as long as the fundamentals are present.  For me, size is everything. 

If DSI continues to offer brilliant new designs but in the moderate-sized Prophet-6 configuration, then I'll simply remain content with my current instruments.  I would love to make some changes and grow the set up a bit, but that means upsizing, not downsizing.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: DavidDever on November 15, 2016, 02:37:39 PM
I think that the Korg Monologue (and to some extent the Minibrute) has some interesting concepts with regards to the wave shaping VCO. It would be quite cool if DSI adopted something similar for a new VCO instrument. I.e. set choices between triangle, sawtooth, and pulse, but with different shape (PW on pulse) options on each wave, and then a new switchable 2/4 pole filter with LP/BP/HP modes. This instrument could very well follow the traditional 6 voice formula for most of the part. A minimum of 2 LFO's would be great though. :)

It would have been better had Korg provided the ability to disable PWM on either oscillator of the *logue voice; as such, when modulating PW on VCO2 as pulse, the waveshape is modulated on VCO1 as saw. And I do agree that one LFO is rather limiting for modulations, without the ability to throw the second (or third!) oscillator into a keyboard-tracked/-untracked low frequency mode.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Hannibal Lektra on December 10, 2016, 05:23:15 PM
I would very much like to have a Pro2 in the Tempest form factor. Reason being is that I under use my Pro2 as a glorified 303 so a Pro2 module would be the perfect solution for me and free up my 2 for leads. The strength in my performances is working the Pro2 sequencer and the Tempest together in a way that isn't possible on the Tempest alone.

Imagine paraphonic patches that allow you to play/arpeggiate "16 Tunings" along side "16 Sequences" of "16 Root Notes"...with a roll function and song mode.

This would be a dynamically different instrument and not just a regurgitated keyboardless version that still requires external gear to play. You could say that the Pro2 is programming based and the Pro2 desktop is rhythm based. Better to own both. With dedicated shortcut buttons for the delay, oscillators, LFO, envelope, etc...it would not be that much of a chore to design sounds on either.

The Pro2 and Tempest are a dope combo. A hybrid of them is something that you could get extremely busy with and would be sexy as hell.

Red LED's please.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: robinkle on December 16, 2016, 03:03:18 AM
I would like to see another handshake between Dave Smith and John Chowning.
A pure fully fledged FM synth with knobs. Prophet FM?

How?:
All the controls for a single operator is covered on the panel, and select-buttons to toggle between each operator to edit.
The rest of the panel would cover the algorithm section (of some sort), pitch envelope, patch selection and effects.

Additional features: LED rings and button back light.

This have never existed, I would love if Dave Smith could be the first to pull this off.
A signature edition, with signature of Chowning would be awesome.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: DavidDever on December 16, 2016, 06:28:53 AM
I would like to see another handshake between Dave Smith and John Chowning.
A pure fully fledged FM synth with knobs. Prophet FM?

How?:
All the controls for a single operator is covered on the panel, and select-buttons to toggle between each operator to edit.
The rest of the panel would cover the algorithm section (of some sort), pitch envelope, patch selection and effects.

Additional features: LED rings and button back light.

This have never existed, I would love if Dave Smith could be the first to pull this off.
A signature edition, with signature of Chowning would be awesome.
The pitch / amp envelope display itself would be a huge improvement.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: robinkle on December 17, 2016, 06:42:00 AM
I would like to see another handshake between Dave Smith and John Chowning.
A pure fully fledged FM synth with knobs. Prophet FM?

How?:
All the controls for a single operator is covered on the panel, and select-buttons to toggle between each operator to edit.
The rest of the panel would cover the algorithm section (of some sort), pitch envelope, patch selection and effects.

Additional features: LED rings and button back light.

This have never existed, I would love if Dave Smith could be the first to pull this off.
A signature edition, with signature of Chowning would be awesome.
The pitch / amp envelope display itself would be a huge improvement.

It would help. Though a common display for patch browsing and editing would work as well.
Maybe just an edit button to give you parameter overview for the selected operator.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 01, 2017, 04:44:12 AM
Surprised that no one reacted to DSI's season's greetings (https://www.davesmithinstruments.com/2016/12/happy-holidays-dsi/). Probably the last hint about what's coming soon:

Quote
In fact, at this very moment we’re hard at work on some interesting new things for 2017 and beyond. In mid-January you’ll get to see the first of these.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 01, 2017, 08:06:34 AM
Some interesting new things.  I like the plural here.  I wonder if effects might be in the new bundle, or perhaps another DSM module?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 01, 2017, 08:15:19 AM
Some interesting new things.  I like the plural here.  I wonder if effects might be in the new bundle, or perhaps another DSM module?

As it has been confirmed already, the Eurorack modules are more or less a kind of "hobby project" for DSI. Hence, I don't believe they're necessarily part of this.

Nevertheless, we have this:
1) "some interesting new things" = definitely more than just one instrument
2) "for 2017 and beyond" = longterm plan
3) "the first of these" = might hint at something that is planned as a series, which in turn would correspond with 1) and 2)

Now, it’s still in the open whether that series (if it is indeed one) is being conceptualized as a sum of its complementary parts (= modular concept without being Eurorack), or as a new engine that is going to appear in different shapes and forms.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 01, 2017, 09:04:08 AM
I would say, an instrument plus a series of something or other.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on January 01, 2017, 12:18:08 PM
Surprised that no one reacted to DSI's season's greetings

I didn't really notice until you posted it here. Anyway, its a well known problem:
https://youtu.be/Nf_Y4MbUCLY?t=33s

Same thing with DSI and gearmas: one never knows what they do and how many right turns was involved. So personally I will just wait to see what they came up with this time around.

Anyone else noticed any changes in the party picture on social media?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on January 01, 2017, 12:21:04 PM
As it has been confirmed already, the Eurorack modules are more or less a kind of "hobby project" for DSI.

And since a product is a product is a product and all takes a lot of time to develop one could hope for DSI taking their time to make an interesting smaller voice count module using their newer developed ingredients.

Not that I expect it to happen though!
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: DavidDever on January 02, 2017, 06:09:49 AM
Surprised that no one reacted to DSI's season's greetings (https://www.davesmithinstruments.com/2016/12/happy-holidays-dsi/). Probably the last hint about what's coming soon:

Quote
In fact, at this very moment we’re hard at work on some interesting new things for 2017 and beyond. In mid-January you’ll get to see the first of these.

Well spotted. This, combined with the job posting, leads me to believe that they're looking to move into something completely different (than keyboard synthesizers) within the MI / professional audio space....
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: chysn on January 02, 2017, 07:51:29 AM
Nevertheless, we have this:
1) "some interesting new things" = definitely more than just one instrument
2) "for 2017 and beyond" = longterm plan
3) "the first of these" = might hint at something that is planned as a series, which in turn would correspond with 1) and 2)

Now, it’s still in the open whether that series (if it is indeed one) is being conceptualized as a sum of its complementary parts (= modular concept without being Eurorack), or as a new engine that is going to appear in different shapes and forms.

There's been a market-wide trend toward semi-modular synthesizers compatible with eurorack connectors and voltage ranges (0-10v, 0-5v, -5v-5v, 1v/oct, etc). I'd say that trend more-or-less guarantees that DSI's offering will not be a semi-modular synthesizer in that mold, because that would come way too close to making dslsynth happy.

Anyway, I interpreted the phrase "the first of these" to refer to "interesting new things," without being part of a series of anything.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on January 02, 2017, 11:49:36 AM
I'd say that trend more-or-less guarantees that DSI's offering will not be a semi-modular synthesizer in that mold, because that would come way too close to making dslsynth happy.

I have a clear feeling that's a core part of DSI's design philosophy!

Seriously, what I really want is a best of all so far voice architecture. What DSI does is serving multiple differently tasting slices of their technology so that they can sell multiple products. Seriously doubt that will ever change.

. o O ( :o )
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on January 02, 2017, 11:55:35 AM
This, combined with the job posting, leads me to believe that they're looking to move into something completely different (than keyboard synthesizers) within the MI / professional audio space....

Or it could be something as basic as realizing that they need more software development resources to keep the company running let alone trying to maintain past products. I have a clear feeling that their first priority for software development resources are new products but lets see how their offerings and maintenance evolve over time. After all one could hope for something else than Vintage Rehash Galore (TM) in the next series of product releases.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 03, 2017, 03:12:39 AM
It would be interesting to see DSI develop a workstation with a form similar to a Synclavier or even Roland V Piano with the controls facing the player as opposed to the player leaning over the controls. It would be interesting to see an FM based Synth (although Yamaha may or may not go after that market at NAMM with the praise of FMX from the Montage) but an FM based synth with a built in sequencer (much like the Synclavier) would be pretty cool.

I think DSI is sort of in a weird place right now. Now everyone is sort of trying to get on board the vintage/analog train they need to look at expanding their horizons. They need to look at products of the past and improve on them. The problem I'm finding is a lot of the vintage gear could actually do more than the modern gear coming out (for example an OBXa can do splits and layers, the OB6 can not, the Poly Sequencers on the Prophet 5 and Prophet 10 can transpose on the fly, the Prophet 6 you can only do this by holding the record button-although this may be fixed in future OS updates).

So Behringer is now stepping into the Polysynth market. Although the DeepMind 12 is limited too it should give DSI incentive to keep moving forward. The OB6 to me was a let down as it wasn't innovative at all, just the exact same synth they released right before except with SEM insides...neat..but...that's not forward thinking. I think DSI needs to read these fourms and get feedback from their customers..which they do but if the fans want a 5 octave keyboard...give them a 5 octave keyboard. If the fans want splits and layers, give them splits and layers. Gear from the 80s logically should not be able to have more features than gear from 2016/2017...that's just mindbogglingly backwards. Things like the Alesis Andromeda or Prophet 08...that's the direction DSI should go because one of these days someone else will come along and do it instead. What is even more bizarre is they have all this feedback and direct communication with their customers online...can they not do polls? Can they not ask what we would like to see or how they can improve? There's really no reason not to.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 03, 2017, 04:54:53 AM
I think the problem with customer surveys is that if the products you tend to offer represent a broader palette of options already, which is the case with DSI, people will start to feel entitled to ask for almost anything without constraint based on a plethora of individual needs. It's not only that too many cooks spoil the broth, it would also be impossible to make everybody happy in the end. And if you try to please too many, you'd run the risk of ending up with a workstation, where the emphasis is on "work" instead of versatility, meaning: too many options, too many functions that make sound design and the actual use complicated in the end. That's not really where the appeal of hardware lies, though.

The revival of anything analog - from instruments like the Monologue up to the reissued Minimoog - might only be partially related to the analog sound itself, which in turn is often based on personal tastes and in not to be underestimated cases on pure sentimentality. What all of these instruments have in common though, is a highly specialized range of features and sonic possibilities. In other words: I think what draws most people towards hardware - vintage or new - these days is a form of limitation as opposed to the endless possibilities you are being offered in the ITB environment. Plus: When it comes to the quantity of options alone, I don't think that you could design any hardware synth anymore that would even remotely be considered a serious contender for what you can do with just a laptop and a couple of dedicated controllers. Hence, I believe that the goal for a successful new hardware synth can't really be to fulfill a "do it all" approach. Its ease of use, a well laid out interface, and well thought out ergonomics are much more important in that regard.

As for more and more companies stepping into the analog poly synth market:
The positive side of the current situation is that it actually gives DSI the opportunity to move on while the rest is still trying to get comfortable. With regard to the Prophet '08, the Prophet-6, and the OB-6, DSI have pretty much "fulfilled their duty" on the analog polysynth market by now, so I couldn't see a better time for something completely different, which would make Behringer and the likes look like boring old farts.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 03, 2017, 05:29:31 AM
I think the problem with customer surveys is that if the products you tend to offer represent a broader palette of options already, which is the case with DSI, people will start to feel entitled to ask for almost anything without constraint based on a plethora of individual needs. It's not only that too many cooks spoil the broth, it would also be impossible to make everybody happy in the end. And if you try to please too many, you'd run the risk of ending up with a workstation, where the emphasis is on "work" instead of versatility, meaning: too many options, too many functions that make sound design and the actual use complicated in the end. That's not really where the appeal of hardware lies, though.

The revival of anything analog - from instruments like the Monologue up to the reissued Minimoog - might only be partially related to the analog sound itself, which in turn is often based on personal tastes and in not to be underestimated cases on pure sentimentality. What all of these instruments have in common though, is a highly specialized range of features and sonic possibilities. In other words: I think what draws most people towards hardware - vintage or new - these days is a form of limitation as opposed to the endless possibilities you are being offered in the ITB environment. Plus: When it comes to the quantity of options alone, I don't think that you could design any hardware synth anymore that would even remotely be considered a serious contender for what you can do with just a laptop and a couple of dedicated controllers. Hence, I believe that the goal for a successful new hardware synth can't really be to fulfill a "do it all" approach. Its ease of use, a well laid out interface, and well thought out ergonomics are much more important in that regard.

As for more and more companies stepping into the analog poly synth market:
The positive side of the current situation is that it actually gives DSI the opportunity to move on while the rest is still trying to get comfortable. With regard to the Prophet '08, the Prophet-6, and the OB-6, DSI have pretty much "fulfilled their duty" on the analog polysynth market by now, so I couldn't see a better time for something completely different, which would make Behringer and the likes look like boring old farts.

This is a fair point. I agree that the appeal for me for my Prophet 6 is the fact everything is on the front panel with no menu diving. I think DSI should continue with that path but just expand on it. It would be interesting to see them do a synth with multiple engines (for example two Prophet 6 engines which would allow the ability to do splits and layers or have two different patches going while still not relying on menu diving). Everyone knows I'm a big fan of the ARP Quadra which had about 4 synth engines in there with no menu. Wouldn't it be awesome do have something like that from DSI? Engines can obviously be done in a smaller form as the modules have proven so why not incorporate more than one into a single synth?   

I think the problem is the mentality of "Why don't you just use MIDI and a bunch of modules?" but my answer is always "Why even have a keyboard version to begin with that type of mentality?"
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: chysn on January 03, 2017, 06:15:40 AM
What is even more bizarre is they have all this feedback and direct communication with their customers online...can they not do polls? Can they not ask what we would like to see or how they can improve? There's really no reason not to.

I think they'd find themselves pulled in too many contradictory directions with that kind of outreach. It's safe to say that a poll would show them that everybody wants everything, and it would fall to DSI to decide how to weigh the input, which would mean they're following whatever inner muse guides them in the first place. They could therefore leave out the unnecessary step of doing a poll.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 03, 2017, 09:09:07 AM
Things like the Alesis Andromeda or Prophet 08...that's the direction DSI should go because one of these days someone else will come along and do it instead.

This is fine music to my ears, but only time will tell.  I think 2017 - and perhaps NAMM itself - will tell us more than merely what synthesizer DSI will offer us next.  I think we will learn the direction the company will be taking in general in the future - whether it be more of the same, or substantially different and innovative.  I may be completely wrong about this - and I hope I am - but the whole Prophet analog poly synth theme seems to be exhausted.  How many variations on a theme can be produced?  So, I would expect to see something quite new this year.

Contrary to all business sense, I don't care for the regular replacing of old instruments with new instruments.  I would much prefer if DSI would perfect and maintain a small number and variety of instruments.  This would include the MK II approach of producing developments of instruments that build on what has already been, improving and expanding on the original foundation.  Oh, for a Prophet '08 MK II with a better keyboard, a few onboard effects, longer envelope times, a high pass filter, and a few other features!  Of course, it's a fact that Dave Smith is not a MK II kind of guy.

But no, things must move on and change must be constant.  This may be good for business and for creating more synth demos, but not for good music.  Regardless, I think NAMM will be a telling event, and 2017 in general.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: chysn on January 03, 2017, 10:33:20 AM
Contrary to all business sense, I don't care for the regular replacing of old instruments with new instruments.  I would much prefer if DSI would perfect and maintain a small number and variety of instruments.

This isn't an unheard-of business plan. Shure has been making the SM58 microphone for 50 years, the Fender Stratocaster has been around since 1954. In the synth realm, Buchla has been making the 259 complex oscillator for at least 35 years. These things change form over time, implement new technologies and manufacturing trends, but remain functionally pretty much the same. It's probably really hard, because they have to adapt to slow supply chain changes over a long period of time, but I think there's a lot to admire about that.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 03, 2017, 10:43:36 AM
Things like the Alesis Andromeda or Prophet 08...that's the direction DSI should go because one of these days someone else will come along and do it instead.

This is fine music to my ears, but only time will tell.  I think 2017 - and perhaps NAMM itself - will tell us more than merely what synthesizer DSI will offer us next.  I think we will learn the direction the company will be taking in general in the future - whether it be more of the same, or substantially different and innovative.  I may be completely wrong about this - and I hope I am - but the whole Prophet analog poly synth theme seems to be exhausted.  How many variations on a theme can be produced?  So, I would expect to see something quite new this year.

Contrary to all business sense, I don't care for the regular replacing of old instruments with new instruments.  I would much prefer if DSI would perfect and maintain a small number and variety of instruments.  This would include the MK II approach of producing developments of instruments that build on what has already been, improving and expanding on the original foundation.  Oh, for a Prophet '08 MK II with a better keyboard, a few onboard effects, longer envelope times, a high pass filter, and a few other features!  Of course, it's a fact that Dave Smith is not a MK II kind of guy.

But no, things must move on and change must be constant.  This may be good for business and for creating more synth demos, but not for good music.  Regardless, I think NAMM will be a telling event, and 2017 in general.

See I think the Prophet line CAN be expanded but the problem is it's not. Before Sequential took the Prophet and expanded it with a bunch of incarnations...the Prophet 10, Prophet VS, Prophet 2000 etc...so why not now? Like I posted above why not 2 synth engines on one synth? Why not 4? Why not an analog/sampler hybrid? Why not an FM or VS based Prophet? The OB6 to me was absolutely disappointing because it was laziness instead of innovation. I mean it didn't even increase the polyphony from their last synth that had just came out! Come on. It's has nothing to do with having more features..it has to do with having each instrument have it's own identity and I really hope it's not a sign of things to come. I don't need another Prophet 6 with a negligibly different sound. I want something different.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 03, 2017, 10:50:05 AM
Contrary to all business sense, I don't care for the regular replacing of old instruments with new instruments.  I would much prefer if DSI would perfect and maintain a small number and variety of instruments.

This isn't an unheard-of business plan. Shure has been making the SM58 microphone for 50 years, the Fender Stratocaster has been around since 1954. In the synth realm, Buchla has been making the 259 complex oscillator for at least 35 years. These things change form over time, implement new technologies and manufacturing trends, but remain functionally pretty much the same. It's probably really hard, because they have to adapt to slow supply chain changes over a long period of time, but I think there's a lot to admire about that.

But even Fender Stratocasters have different configurations, different pickups, different necks, different hardware. 3 strats may still be strats but each has it's own purpose and features. Even a keyboard with a different pitch/mod wheel (similar to the OBXa where you could bend the pitch of individual oscillators as opposed to both) would be welcome cause it would be different.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 03, 2017, 11:10:26 AM
Of course, it's a fact that Dave Smith is not a MK II kind of guy.

Occasionally he is (see Prophet-6). It only takes about 37 years.  ;D
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 03, 2017, 11:30:00 AM
Of course, it's a fact that Dave Smith is not a MK II kind of guy.

Occasionally he is (see Prophet-6). It only takes about 37 years.  ;D

I guess I never thought of a Prophet-6 as a Prophet 5 MK II.  I would prefer that MK II's be expansions of the original instrument, rather than shrinkings of it.  I suppose the P-6 has some additional features, but the keyboard size is a great disappointment.

I honestly think the Prophet '08 is the exceptional synthesizer in the whole DSI/Sequential line up.  ...What was that?  Oh, my Poly Evolver Keyboard just spat.  Attitude.  Anyways, I do think the Prophet '08 deserves to remain a standard instrument in the DSI catalog, one that is not tossed aside for the latest new synthesizer.  It should be followed by an instrument that is clearly its successor, truly a P'08 MK II.   
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on January 03, 2017, 11:34:11 AM
Anyways, I do think the Prophet '08 deserves to remain a standard instrument in the DSI catalog, one that is not tossed aside for the latest new synthesizer. 
You've all but guaranteed a Prophet 16 that is essentially a Prophet 8 x 2 with extra bells and whistles.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 03, 2017, 11:37:43 AM
Dave Smith said he'd never make a two-manual Prophet '08.  And he also said he'd never make a VCO synth.  :o

A Prophet 16?  I'll have four, please.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 03, 2017, 11:51:17 AM
Actually, Shaw, you have a point.  Life at DSI seems to be a numbers game, and a Prophet 16 would be the next natural step.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 03, 2017, 11:52:09 AM
See I think the Prophet line CAN be expanded but the problem is it's not. Before Sequential took the Prophet and expanded it with a bunch of incarnations...the Prophet 10, Prophet VS, Prophet 2000 etc...so why not now?

But DSI did release the Prophet '08, the Prophet 12, and the Prophet-6, which are all very different. So it's not really that we haven't seen any Prophet incarnations in the more recent past. Even the Poly Evolver and the MEK have once been advertised (around 2006) as continuing the story of the Prophet-5 and the Pro-One.

Like I posted above why not 2 synth engines on one synth? Why not 4? Why not an analog/sampler hybrid? Why not an FM or VS based Prophet?

While some of that would probably be possible, it has never been part of DSI's philosophy to design one synth that can do it all. Even the ARP Quadra you were referring to earlier wasn't that kind of synth. In fact, it wasn't even a true polyphonic synth like all the Prophets are, since it utilized divide down technology to achieve polyphony like organs, the many string machines, and the Polymoog. Its synth engine was also not immensely powerful. But even if you upgrade all that to today's standards and expectations, you'd probably end up with a quite expensive piece of gear. So from that perspective I do get it if DSI suggests (by their range of products) to simply get the Prophet 12, the Prophet-6, an Evolver, and a Prophet '08 if you want all these aspects combined for example. Of course that's still very different from having it all combined under one roof so to speak. But I assume that if you'd combine 3-4 different engines you might also have to pay at least 2-3 times the price you'd usually pay for one rather specialized synth, especially if analog is involved all along the signal path. And the other risk is that you can also overload a synth's engine, especially if you are forced to rely too much on menu diving in the end.

The OB6 to me was absolutely disappointing because it was laziness instead of innovation. I mean it didn't even increase the polyphony from their last synth that had just came out! Come on. It's has nothing to do with having more features..it has to do with having each instrument have it's own identity and I really hope it's not a sign of things to come. I don't need another Prophet 6 with a negligibly different sound. I want something different.

While the OB-6 was obviously not for you, it was never advertised as the most innovative synth. It was mostly based on a rather spontaneous idea by Dave and Tom. By following through with their idea, they've made the first analog polyphonic Oberheim synth available since the 1980s. And for many players that was already enough, as it introduced variety to the poly synth market and something people were lusting after for years. And that's okay too.

Plus: That each DSI instrument is supposed to have its own identity is no sign of things to come, it has always been that way, ever since the Evolver was introduced. Also: Isn't it in general one instrument's identity that attracts us to a specific synth, a guitar, or whatever instrument?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 03, 2017, 11:56:04 AM
One of my favorite advertisements:

Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 03, 2017, 11:57:31 AM
One of my favorite advertisements:

Exactly. That's the one I was referring to.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 03, 2017, 12:16:17 PM
My absolutely perfect synthesizer would be a Prophet '08, but with:

- four stereo DCOs
- sixteen voices
- onboard stereo delay and chorus
- high pass resonant filter
- longer attack, delay, and release times in all three envelopes
- higher quality keyboard
- modulation wheels to left of keyboard

This would be my dream synthesizer.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: tumble2k on January 03, 2017, 01:55:42 PM
That synth sounds perfect to me too, except it would need two LPFs and HPFs per voice, right? Isn't the large part of the expense in the filters?

I'd add that the stereo delay can just be the Prophet 12 delay setup.

Also 16 modulation slots.

Yeah!
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 03, 2017, 02:07:17 PM
That synth sounds perfect to me too, except it would need two LPFs and HPFs per voice, right? Isn't the large part of the expense in the filters?

It would need twice of everything in the analog signal path, yes. Add to that 64 DCOs.  :o

I'd add that the stereo delay can just be the Prophet 12 delay setup.

Not sure if that's something that can be implemented by just swapping it around, as the Prophet 12 is not based on a true stereo signal path, where everything's hard-wired to the left and the right. On the other hand the delays have been used on the Evolver already (albeit not exactly the same ones), so I guess it wouldn't be a huge problem. One thing to consider though: The delays of the Prophet 12 are not like the effects on the Prophet-6/OB-6, which I think was what Sacred Synthesis had in mind. Instead, they're fully embedded in the modulation matrix.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 03, 2017, 02:24:48 PM
By "stereo" I was referring only to the hardwiring of the oscillators to separate channels, as with the Evolver.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 04, 2017, 06:23:01 AM
As an alternative to stereo oscillators, there is always the Output B option on the Prophet '08's back panel.  With sixteen voices, one could afford to leave the instrument in that configuration, producing an fully stereo eight voice instrument.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 04, 2017, 09:04:39 AM
As an alternative to stereo oscillators, there is always the Output B option on the Prophet '08's back panel.  With sixteen voices, one could afford to leave the instrument in that configuration, producing an fully stereo eight voice instrument.

If you say "stereo oscillators", does that mean that you originally wanted 4 DCOs on each side or 2x2 like on the Evolver? Only in the latter case, it would already need 64 DCOs and twice as many otherwise.

Compared to that, the Schmidt synthesizer "only" uses 32 DCOs (4x8), albeit they are a bit more complex just as this synth is of course a bit more complex as a whole. With its multitimbrality features (8 times), it certainly comes closest to what LoboLives was getting at - in the analog realm that is.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 04, 2017, 09:36:07 AM
As in the Evolver.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Jason on January 04, 2017, 10:03:06 AM
I've never played an Evolver. Can you make different program changes for each side? In other words, is it essentially a different patch Right side to Left side or the same patch? I'm wondering if there would still be some advantages of having a separate module/synthesizer on each side.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 04, 2017, 10:09:19 AM
I've never played an Evolver. Can you make different program changes for each side? In other words, is it essentially a different patch Right side to Left side or the same patch? I'm wondering if there would still be some advantages of having a separate module/synthesizer on each side.

No it's not duotimbral along the stereo image. It's just that each kind of oscillator (one analog, one digital) is hard-wired to the left and the right channel and that it has two filters, one for each channel. That is not to be confused with different patches to the left and the right. Everything you adjust on the Evolver takes place within one patch. You can layer sounds on the Poly Evolver, but that has nothing to do with the true stereo signal path.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Jan Schultink on January 05, 2017, 12:59:56 AM
One of my favorite advertisements:

Why do synthesizers always fly through space in ads?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 05, 2017, 01:06:10 AM
One of my favorite advertisements:

Why do synthesizers always fly through space in ads?

Because
a) Cats
b) Space is the place
c) LSD
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: BobTheDog on January 05, 2017, 05:09:45 AM
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/28/e9/61/28e9613a335a44a2f5be93804da67647.jpg)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 05, 2017, 05:48:59 AM
Three synthesizers flying through space:

Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 05, 2017, 06:35:41 AM
I corrected that for you…
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on January 05, 2017, 02:05:43 PM
A catzesizer!? https://youtu.be/SUKJA4UAruw?t=6m20s ;-)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 05, 2017, 04:11:10 PM
A catzesizer!? https://youtu.be/SUKJA4UAruw?t=6m20s ;-)

Ha! I remember sitting at my desk once, playing around with the Dexed plug-in just over my laptop speakers. At one point, I produced a meow sound and my girlfriend's cat would freak out any time I'd press a key. Sadly though, that was the only time she ever reacted to any of my sounds - the cat that is.

To come back to the relation between synthesizers and space, which might also be relevant for the next DSI instrument:
I think that the use of the ARP 2500 as a means to communicate with aliens in "Close Encounters" probably played a great role as a cultural signifier.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on January 05, 2017, 04:23:54 PM
Ha! I remember sitting at my desk once, playing around with the Dexed plug-in just over my laptop speakers. At one point, I produced a meow sound and my girlfriend's cat would freak out any time I'd press a key. Sadly though, that was the only time she ever reacted to any of my sounds - the cat that is.

Ever tried bird call synthesis? ;)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 05, 2017, 04:26:12 PM
Ha! I remember sitting at my desk once, playing around with the Dexed plug-in just over my laptop speakers. At one point, I produced a meow sound and my girlfriend's cat would freak out any time I'd press a key. Sadly though, that was the only time she ever reacted to any of my sounds - the cat that is.

Ever tried bird call synthesis? ;)

No, but I used to get into call and response games with cardinals by true analog whistling.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on January 05, 2017, 04:31:17 PM
No, but I used to get into call and response games with cardinals by true analog whistling.

Some of them sounds almost like a LFO bird:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_cardinal#Song

That would make a wave table synthesizer or sample synthesizer even more interesting (for cats too).
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 05, 2017, 04:32:52 PM
No, but I used to get into call and response games with cardinals by true analog whistling.

Some of them sounds almost like a LFO bird:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_cardinal#Song

They're cool birds. I do really miss them.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on January 05, 2017, 04:34:24 PM
They're cool birds. I do really miss them.

Not to worry: give your Pro 2 a try! . o O ( fake beaks )
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 05, 2017, 10:11:35 PM
I've always understood the synthesizer-space relationship as coming from a shared modernity.  The synthesizer is a recently invented instrument that uses modern technology to produce sound.  Space is that domain of modern exploration the depends entirely on technology.  Both are heavily reliant on computers; hence, the relationship.  It makes sense to me.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Jan Schultink on January 07, 2017, 06:59:24 AM
Here you go, on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, etc.: http://www.catsonsynthesizersinspace.com/
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 07, 2017, 02:36:39 PM
But the cat portion all started here:

Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: eXode on January 11, 2017, 12:10:08 PM
So, anyone else seen this yet?

https://www.reddit.com/r/synthesizers/comments/5n3elu/saw_this_on_peter_dyers_instagram_story_new_dave/
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 11, 2017, 12:10:58 PM
Yes.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: eXode on January 11, 2017, 12:25:59 PM
One more week!
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 11, 2017, 12:53:11 PM
The printed DSI logo on their boxes is not very large. So if the box is placed on the floor, the table in the background might indicate that it could be a 61 keys instrument. Anyway, I don't wanna get too ridiculous about making guesses based on boxes.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 11, 2017, 01:43:58 PM
Two short and very recent interviews with Dave:
http://www.bboytechreport.com/2017/01/09/exclusive-namm-tec-awards-interview-dave-smith-of-dave-smith-instruments/
http://www.musicconnection.com/chats-synth-developer-dave-smith/

So one more announcement later this year, and more and more synths in general.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 11, 2017, 01:44:06 PM
Watch DSI's social media for hints, any day now.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 11, 2017, 01:50:37 PM
"We have no set of rules when we select our next project, so our customers can always expect the unexpected."

- Dave Smith
 

Music Connection interviewer: "What's next for you and your company?"

Dave Smith: "More synths! We have another major announcement at NAMM, and we’re planning another surprise later in the year."
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 12, 2017, 01:47:52 PM
Watch DSI's social media for hints, any day now.

This was just posted. Doesn't really help, does it?

(https://scontent.ftxl1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15895416_1443744788983714_2229775669261210604_n.jpg?oh=222eee94286ee9382893d8d1311f7972&oe=5917E376)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on January 12, 2017, 01:50:37 PM
This was just posted. Doesn't really help, does it?
What synth is that he has his hands on... that info may help tremendously.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 12, 2017, 01:51:10 PM
That picture is a subtle hint that the new instrument will have MIDI.  :D

I believe it's either a Roland Jupiter 8 or a Jupiter 6.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 12, 2017, 01:51:26 PM
This was just posted. Doesn't really help, does it?
What synth is that he has his hands on... that info may help tremendously.

Jupiter-6 (which was connected to a Prophet-600).
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 12, 2017, 01:54:09 PM
That picture is a subtle hint that the new instrument will have MIDI.  :D

Hear, hear.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on January 12, 2017, 01:54:55 PM
That picture is clearly a subtle hint that the new instrument will have MIDI.  :D

I believe it's either a Roland Jupiter 8 or a Jupiter 6.
A collaboration perhaps?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 12, 2017, 01:56:14 PM
That picture is clearly a subtle hint that the new instrument will have MIDI.  :D

I believe it's either a Roland Jupiter 8 or a Jupiter 6.
A collaboration perhaps?

MIDI 4.0.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on January 12, 2017, 01:58:27 PM
That picture is clearly a subtle hint that the new instrument will have MIDI.  :D

I believe it's either a Roland Jupiter 8 or a Jupiter 6.
A collaboration perhaps?

MIDI 4.0.
sounds logical... the Prophet 600 was the first synth to make good use of MIDI
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 12, 2017, 01:59:39 PM
That was meant to be a joke though. But I'd take the Sequential jacket!
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on January 12, 2017, 02:04:27 PM
That was meant to be a joke though. But I'd take the Sequential jacket!
In all seriousness, MIDI is getting long in the tooth.  Modern computers and processors are capable of much greater precision.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 12, 2017, 02:04:33 PM
The Sequential jacket was worn by John Bowen btw.

Sooo many possible hints!

(http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/mind_blown.gif)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on January 12, 2017, 02:05:35 PM
The Sequential jacket was worn by John Bowen btw.

Sooo many possible hints!
Collaborations Galore....
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 12, 2017, 02:09:54 PM
Ah, I think I got it: The next synth will sound so harsh and cold that you will need a good ol' Sequential jacket to keep yourself warm.  ;D
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on January 12, 2017, 02:15:52 PM
If the Sequential Jacket is the hint, DSI has a lot of old products to revive: Prophet 600, Fugue, Max, Prophet 2000, TOM, among many others...


... or perhaps it's not a hint at all.  It could just be a walk down memory lane from a previous NAMM or trade show.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 12, 2017, 02:21:40 PM
Another question is, will the new instrument be a DSI or a Sequential synthesizer?  Could the Roland connection suggest a Sequential instrument (regarding how Dave was given back the name)? 
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 12, 2017, 02:34:44 PM
The Sequential jacket was worn by John Bowen btw.

Sooo many possible hints!

(http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/mind_blown.gif)

If there's anything to it, a collaboration between the maker of the Prophet 12 and the maker of the Solaris could be very interesting.  But I suspect more the collaboration - if there is one - would be with Roland.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: chysn on January 12, 2017, 05:18:01 PM
That picture is a subtle hint that the new instrument will have MIDI.  :D

Damn it!
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 12, 2017, 05:40:35 PM
How about USB-C ports only.  ;D

USB-C to CV adapter anyone?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 12, 2017, 05:40:48 PM
But there may be several things on the way, Chysn, so don't give up.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: chysn on January 12, 2017, 07:05:26 PM
But there may be several things on the way, Chysn, so don't give up.

Oh, I'll be excited about whatever. I don't expect to see The Synth Jason Would Make because it's both too close to something they already have and too radically different from anything there's ever been.

I'd like to see the Sequential brand name taken for a spin again, because I love the look of the Prophet 6.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 12, 2017, 07:12:38 PM
I'd like to see the Sequential brand name taken for a spin again, because I love the look of the Prophet 6.

Ditto, if they would only push the Sequential architecture a little further.

If I remember correctly, you came close to buying a Prophet-6 Keyboard, but then you decided to go modular instead.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: kisielk on January 12, 2017, 10:52:17 PM
It's obviously going to be a 360 degree keyboard.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 13, 2017, 02:59:46 AM
It's obviously going to be a 360 degree keyboard.

Haha! So the next thing is going to be a laser harp.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: chysn on January 13, 2017, 06:29:21 AM
Ditto, if they would only push the Sequential architecture a little further.

If I remember correctly, you came close to buying a Prophet-6 Keyboard, but then you decided to go modular instead.

Yeah, and modular sort of took me by surprise. Things that I once considered essential, I don't care about anymore. PWM, ASDR envelopes, LFOs, filters. What's a synthesizer without these things? But now that I find myself on the verge of going full-Buchla, I'm not sure how that squares with looking for a keyboard synthesizer, or even keeping the one I have.

For the price (and ongoing investments) of my modular, I could have had a Minimoog or a Prophet 6. I sort of wipe my brow with relief that I didn't get a Minimoog, but I don't feel that way about the Prophet 6. It would have been an equally satisfying path, but way different.

I would seriously consider a Sequential monosynth with good CV support, even if it means scaling down the modular and building another case. But I think that the Pro 2 is that synth right now, and it's hard to beat. For the record, I don't consider its CV support sufficient (please see the Oberheim TVP for one operational definition of "sufficient"). And everyone's right; it's time for a new five-octave replacement for the Prophet 08.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 14, 2017, 04:01:36 AM
I always thought the Sequential name was with Yamaha, not Roland? I swear I heard Dave mention he got it back from Yamaha in an interview.

In any case I thought Dave said he wouldn't be interested in collaborations anymore after the OB6. Perhaps he changed his mind? I remember him saying he'd never make a synth again with VCOs but he eventually did so perhaps he's more interested in expanding DSI's horizons.

As far as the suggestions go
John Bowen and Dave Smith collaborating would be neat. With the digital aspect of the Solaris perhaps we'll indeed see a Prophet VS type synth which would be more than welcomed. It certainly needs to be multi-timbral if that's the case. The downfall of the Solaris is you can't play more than one patch at a time which at that price point and as deep as that synth is a bit silly.

As far as a DSI/Roland collaboration....Jupiter 10? An 10 voice, VCO analog synth with splits and layers possibilities? Yes please.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: DavidDever on January 14, 2017, 04:13:37 AM
I always thought the Sequential name was with Yamaha, not Roland? I swear I heard Dave mention he got it back from Yamaha in an interview.

In any case I thought Dave said he wouldn't be interested in collaborations anymore after the OB6. Perhaps he changed his mind? I remember him saying he'd never make a synth again with VCOs but he eventually did so perhaps he's more interested in expanding DSI's horizons.

As far as the suggestions go
John Bowen and Dave Smith collaborating would be neat. With the digital aspect of the Solaris perhaps we'll indeed see a Prophet VS type synth which would be more than welcomed. It certainly needs to be multi-timbral if that's the case. The downfall of the Solaris is you can't play more than one patch at a time which at that price point and as deep as that synth is a bit silly.

As far as a DSI/Roland collaboration....Jupiter 10? An 10 voice, VCO analog synth with splits and layers possibilities? Yes please.

Roland has already collaborated with Malekko on the Roland-branded System-500, so they're likely not averse to the idea....
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 14, 2017, 04:41:50 AM
I always thought the Sequential name was with Yamaha, not Roland? I swear I heard Dave mention he got it back from Yamaha in an interview.

That's correct. However, it was Roland's founder Ikutaro Kakehashi who kindly asked Yamaha to give the rights back to Dave.

In any case I thought Dave said he wouldn't be interested in collaborations anymore after the OB6. Perhaps he changed his mind? I remember him saying he'd never make a synth again with VCOs but he eventually did so perhaps he's more interested in expanding DSI's horizons.

I'd assume the latter as well. With DSI focussing less on covering the whole market from low cost instruments (like the Mopho, Evolver desktop, or the Tetra) to more expensive ones, I guess that there are going to be more kind of "flagship" synths, which would have to result in more variety.

As far as the suggestions go
John Bowen and Dave Smith collaborating would be neat. With the digital aspect of the Solaris perhaps we'll indeed see a Prophet VS type synth which would be more than welcomed. It certainly needs to be multi-timbral if that's the case. The downfall of the Solaris is you can't play more than one patch at a time which at that price point and as deep as that synth is a bit silly.

As far as a DSI/Roland collaboration....Jupiter 10? An 10 voice, VCO analog synth with splits and layers possibilities? Yes please.

As far as collaborations go, Dave Rossum would be a good candidate as well - and rather more compelling if I may say so. Not so sure about Roland, as they seem to be happy with their ACB technology and plug-out platform. A true analog instrument might only undermine that approach. I also assume that we won't see more instruments like the Prophet-6 and the OB-6 as far as re-imagined classics go. Mainly because I think that DSI can truly shine with more innovative (not meant in a judgemental sense here) approaches in the current market situation – along the lines of: Let others dwell in the past, we will show the rest that we can still push boundaries.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 14, 2017, 04:56:24 AM
I always thought the Sequential name was with Yamaha, not Roland? I swear I heard Dave mention he got it back from Yamaha in an interview.

In any case I thought Dave said he wouldn't be interested in collaborations anymore after the OB6. Perhaps he changed his mind? I remember him saying he'd never make a synth again with VCOs but he eventually did so perhaps he's more interested in expanding DSI's horizons.

As far as the suggestions go
John Bowen and Dave Smith collaborating would be neat. With the digital aspect of the Solaris perhaps we'll indeed see a Prophet VS type synth which would be more than welcomed. It certainly needs to be multi-timbral if that's the case. The downfall of the Solaris is you can't play more than one patch at a time which at that price point and as deep as that synth is a bit silly.

As far as a DSI/Roland collaboration....Jupiter 10? An 10 voice, VCO analog synth with splits and layers possibilities? Yes please.

Roland has already collaborated with Malekko on the Roland-branded System-500, so they're likely not averse to the idea....

They've already touched on the analog realm with the JDXA. So I don't think it would be too far of a stretch.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: eXode on January 14, 2017, 05:06:38 AM
For what it's worth, Ikutaro Kakehashi retired from Roland in 2013 and went on to create ATV.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on January 14, 2017, 06:59:39 AM
They've already touched on the analog realm with the JDXA. So I don't think it would be too far of a stretch.
... and that was the dud of the decade.  Terrible layout with all the menu diving via only two buttons:   [<] & [>]
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 14, 2017, 07:10:44 AM
They've already touched on the analog realm with the JDXA. So I don't think it would be too far of a stretch.
... and that was the dud of the decade.  Terrible layout with all the menu diving via only two buttons:   [<] & [>]

I hear ya. Lots of flaws with that one. Great concept though combining real analog sound with sample/digital based sounds just wish they thought things through. Roland's new layout on their synths (Red on black) is mind bogglingly stupid. Even in direct sunlight I'm struggling to read my FA-08's panel. The JDXA can get some incredible sounds but it just takes longer than it should to get them. I found I spent more time menu diving and trying to set the thing up rather than playing it. I'm all for programming but it just seemed like it was the wrong layout for the right engine.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 14, 2017, 01:53:17 PM
They've already touched on the analog realm with the JDXA. So I don't think it would be too far of a stretch.
... and that was the dud of the decade.  Terrible layout with all the menu diving via only two buttons:   [<] & [>]

I hear ya. Lots of flaws with that one. Great concept though combining real analog sound with sample/digital based sounds just wish they thought things through. Roland's new layout on their synths (Red on black) is mind bogglingly stupid. Even in direct sunlight I'm struggling to read my FA-08's panel. The JDXA can get some incredible sounds but it just takes longer than it should to get them. I found I spent more time menu diving and trying to set the thing up rather than playing it. I'm all for programming but it just seemed like it was the wrong layout for the right engine.

I think the JD-XA would have really benefitted from a better interface design. As it is, it's really a bit counter-intuitive. Another aspect that's annoying about recent Roland offerings is the obvious cost cutting philosophy. Their keyboards feel really bad and on the System-8 you don't even get Aftertouch. This video by Markus Fuller (far OT, I know) is really revealing in that regard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4tVgLlwekk
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 14, 2017, 02:21:55 PM
I always thought the Sequential name was with Yamaha, not Roland? I swear I heard Dave mention he got it back from Yamaha in an interview.

Weren't both Yamaha and Roland involved?  Someone called someone, and the end result was that Dave was given back the Sequential name.  The information is in the NAMM videos introducing the Prophet-6.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 14, 2017, 02:35:18 PM
I always thought the Sequential name was with Yamaha, not Roland? I swear I heard Dave mention he got it back from Yamaha in an interview.

Weren't both Yamaha and Roland involved?  Someone called someone, and the end result was that Dave was given back the Sequential name.  The information is in the NAMM videos introducing the Prophet-6.

Like I said, it was Roland's founder Ikutaro Kakehashi who kindly asked Yamaha to give the rights back to Dave. Kakehashi moved on from Roland though to found the ATV corporation in 2014. Or to quote from the Prophet-6 manual:

Event two transpired when, unknown to me, my old friend and collaborator in the creation of MIDI, Ikutaro Kakehashi, founder of Roland, asked Yamaha Corporation to consider returning ownership of my original company brand, Sequential Circuits, to me. (Yamaha had purchased Sequential’s assets when we closed shop back in 1987.) Yamaha generously agreed and suddenly Sequential was back — almost. All we needed was an awesome new product to bear the name.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 15, 2017, 02:58:12 AM
I always thought the Sequential name was with Yamaha, not Roland? I swear I heard Dave mention he got it back from Yamaha in an interview.

Weren't both Yamaha and Roland involved?  Someone called someone, and the end result was that Dave was given back the Sequential name.  The information is in the NAMM videos introducing the Prophet-6.

Like I said, it was Roland's founder Ikutaro Kakehashi who kindly asked Yamaha to give the rights back to Dave. Kakehashi moved on from Roland though to found the ATV corporation in 2014. Or to quote from the Prophet-6 manual:

Event two transpired when, unknown to me, my old friend and collaborator in the creation of MIDI, Ikutaro Kakehashi, founder of Roland, asked Yamaha Corporation to consider returning ownership of my original company brand, Sequential Circuits, to me. (Yamaha had purchased Sequential’s assets when we closed shop back in 1987.) Yamaha generously agreed and suddenly Sequential was back — almost. All we needed was an awesome new product to bear the name.

Wonder why he only had the name Sequential and not Sequential Circuits on the Prophet 6.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 15, 2017, 03:40:45 AM
Wonder why he only had the name Sequential and not Sequential Circuits on the Prophet 6.

From 1985 on Sequential Circuits Inc. abbreviated their name to Sequential, simply because it's shorter and easier to use. The shortened name was printed on products like the MAX, TOM, Multitrak, Split-Eight/Pro 8, Prophet 2000/2002, Prophet VS, Studio 440, and the Prophet 3000. So the reason is pretty banal really. By picking up the shortened version of the name for the Prophet-6, they also indicated continuity rather than just harking back. So using the name as it was actually used the last time around sort of resembles taking up where one left off.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: blewis on January 15, 2017, 05:51:57 AM
Man they run a pretty tight ship eh?  Zero leaks.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 15, 2017, 05:52:10 AM
Wonder why he only had the name Sequential and not Sequential Circuits on the Prophet 6.

From 1985 on Sequential Circuits Inc. abbreviated their name to Sequential, simply because it's shorter and easier to use. The shortened name was printed on products like the MAX, TOM, Multitrak, Split-Eight/Pro 8, Prophet 2000/2002, Prophet VS, Studio 440, and the Prophet 3000. So the reason is pretty banal really. By picking up the shortened version of the name for the Prophet-6, they also indicated continuity rather than just harking back. So using the name as it was actually used the last time around sort of resembles taking up where one left off.

Makes sense. Thanks. :)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 15, 2017, 05:59:14 AM
Man they run a pretty tight ship eh?  Zero leaks.

Anticipation is half the fun. Plus: They've gotta put some effort into making all gear-related sites break down again on Thursday.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 15, 2017, 06:06:44 AM
Man they run a pretty tight ship eh?  Zero leaks.

Other than those pictures they posted of a box and of them demonstrating MIDI back in the day (Along with John Bowen and I believe Ikutaro Kakehashi) by connecting a Prophet 600 to (From what I believe was reported) a Juno.

So I'm not sure what any of this means. Dave said he wasn't really going to be doing collaborations again (like he did with Tom Oberheim for the OB6) but like we discussed earlier he also said he would never do a VCO based synth again but then BOOM Prophet 6 and OB6. So...who knows. Maybe a new digital Prophet synth alongside John Bowen? A new product with Kakehashi? A partnership with Roland? Who knows.

Personally I'd like to see a partnership with Cameron Jones in creating a new Synclavier type FM synth with real time sampling and real time sequencing capabilities of the original with a layout like the Minimoog/Schmidt where the panel has the option to be place in front of the musician. Not sure how that would happen though.

Perhaps a new Sequential Multi-Track?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 15, 2017, 06:31:55 AM
I think that picture from the 1983 NAMM might be completely unrelated to any new product. Just a sort of legacy reminder, like: "It's NAMM time again next week. Remember how Sequential and Roland introduced MIDI back in the day?" It's just one of those iconic NAMM pictures Sequential/DSI is related to.

I'm skeptical with regard to a new collaboration as well. Sure, never say never. But at the same time it has been emphasized quite often that DSI have been collecting many ideas over the years and that they are continuously thinking about new stuff, which may just turn those kinds of projects into priorities.

Let's also not forget that the last instrument, the OB-6, didn't require much R&D time. It was a rather quick and easy process (6 months in total), so who knows where their heads have been in the meantime. What I'm saying is: With that little bit of extra time on their hands thanks to the OB-6 project, they might just have had enough time to develop something that is going to be substantially different from all the prior releases.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 15, 2017, 06:47:07 AM
I think that picture from the 1983 NAMM might be completely unrelated to any new product. Just a sort of legacy reminder, like: "It's NAMM time again next week. Remember how Sequential and Roland introduced MIDI back in the day?" It's just one of those iconic NAMM pictures Sequential/DSI is related to.

I'm skeptical with regard to a new collaboration as well. Sure, never say never. But at the same time it has been emphasized quite often that DSI have been collecting many ideas over the years and that they are continuously thinking about new stuff, which may just turn those kinds of projects into priorities.

Let's also not forget that the last instrument, the OB-6, didn't require much R&D time. It was a rather quick and easy process (6 months in total), so who knows where their heads have been in the meantime. What I'm saying is: With that little bit of extra time on their hands thanks to the OB-6 project, they might just have had enough time to develop something that is going to be substantially different from all the prior releases.

Just going to have to wait and see. I just hope it's not a letdown.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on January 15, 2017, 11:45:06 AM
Man they run a pretty tight ship eh?  Zero leaks.

Maybe invite them on a dinner to a Mexican restaurant? ;)

. o O ( :o )
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 15, 2017, 11:50:02 AM
I think that picture from the 1983 NAMM might be completely unrelated to any new product. Just a sort of legacy reminder....

I would agree with this.  I don't think we've been given a hint yet, even though we're eager to get one.  I'd be very surprised to see collaboration with anyone other than Tom Oberheim.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on January 15, 2017, 11:56:24 AM
Personally I have decided just to wait and see what they announce this time around. Hopefully the new machine will have interesting new ingredients in its voice architecture. And for the record: I don't expect it to be a machine to my liking but fingers crossed for something of interest one of these NAMM shows.

Far more interesting is to see how DSI evolves their operation now that they have more software developers in their workshop. More bug fixes? More complex products? Multiple development tracks whereby more than one instrument is being worked on at the same time?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: nsalzman on January 16, 2017, 08:40:55 AM
The keyboard/module, and 'size of keyboard' conversation is very interesting. There has definitely been an evolution away from linear 88-key controllers towards smaller keybeds, and alternate devices for midi input. A new DSI synth would have to offer a compelling set of controller features for me to invest in anything but a module.

In 1991 I sold my baby grand, and bought my first master controller - a fire-engine-red DPM C8. It is still my go-to keyboard. In 2011 I had to send the DPM motherboard to Peavey for repairs, and bought the Nero White master controller - which is a lot more portable!

Next up was a guitar midi controller... I worked for Fishman on their TriplePlay wireless midi controller and stomp box. In this case the fretboard becomes a control surface. Lots of fun, and also why I have a few DAWs listed in my signature - the need to test with a variety of popular tools...

My next gear update was the Push 2, which is fascinating in that it allows both fretboard, and linear keyboard controller styles of play - along with excellent sequencing and sample editing.

Where am I going with this? I believe many of us who are willing/able to invest in boutique synths already have a number of master controllers and alternate input devices. I don't have space, or need in my studio for another full-sized keyboard. At some point I will get a Roli-like device to explore the additional dimensions, but I think that market has not yet reached a sweet spot.

At this point I'm just not sure I need anything else! Between what's available as synth software in the box (Macbook Pro), a new external hardware synth will have to provide a sound I just can't get from my P12. So far - I haven't hit that wall. :)

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 16, 2017, 10:06:11 AM
The keyboard/module, and 'size of keyboard' conversation is very interesting. There has definitely been an evolution away from linear 88-key controllers towards smaller keybeds, and alternate devices for midi input.

I think there are basically two current trends: One is about portability, the other one about alternative input devices that are able to offer a more expressive articulation. While the former one is mostly based on sheer practical concerns by touring musicians or those who perform live frequently, the latter one is about more fundamental questions of musical expressivity, especially since the keyboard (based on the organ, not the piano) is a rather primitive on/off switch device.

A new DSI synth would have to offer a compelling set of controller features for me to invest in anything but a module.

With regard to alternative input devices and controllers, a welcomed feature for not only a brandnew instrument would certainly be MPE support.

I believe many of us who are willing/able to invest in boutique synths already have a number of master controllers and alternate input devices. I don't have space, or need in my studio for another full-sized keyboard. At some point I will get a Roli-like device to explore the additional dimensions, but I think that market has not yet reached a sweet spot.

That's a valid point. With a certain amount of gear already present, one would not need more and more keyboards along with every new synth engine. However, people also tend to sell stuff in order to buy new instruments. So there's not necessarily a growing number of keyboards in every case; not everyone can afford to be a collector, and not everybody wants a plethora of synths, but rather a limited selection of reliable tools (depending on personal goals), of which one can only use so many in depth anyway. And then there are those for whom a new synth is only a true instrument if it is a self-contained unit with an appropriate input device/keyboard, which also makes sense, especially if you don't wanna carry around lots of different devices all the time, which could as well be included in one box.

I'm not sure about whether the market has not yet reached a sweet spot yet. There are as many alternative controllers around like never before and one could even make a joke about how many new kickstarter campaigns for whatever kind of controller have been started this week. There's definitely an extreme differentiation going on with more and more specialized controllers that come in all variations - from building blocks to ROLI-like approaches and even apps. I would agree with you insofar, as some projects appear really forced, or just as a slight variation of another product. All the rest might be tied to the question, whether there is anything like a perfect controller or input device. I'd answer that question with 'no', since each one of us has different goals and techniques in mind. So the whole controller market is one for highly individualized needs. Some controllers offer different modes of operation in order to cover different approaches, like the Linnstrument for example, others are more specified. Then, it's also still important how a specific controller feels to a performer. A ROLI for example might just not be for everyone.
The biggest problem I see though, is that of adaption: Not everybody is willing to un- or re-learn a playing technique just for the sake of a different controller. Many people still feel comfortable with a keyboard, no matter how limited it might be at the touch of one button. If someone also plays an instrument with a fretboard, the transition towards a Linnstrument might not be that hard at all. That's basically why I think that alternative controllers won't become a mass market phenomenon, at least not in the near future.

At this point I'm just not sure I need anything else! Between what's available as synth software in the box (Macbook Pro), a new external hardware synth will have to provide a sound I just can't get from my P12. So far - I haven't hit that wall. :)

Well, generally speaking I think that the next DSI instrument would have to be substantially different enough from the Prophet-6, OB-6, Prophet 12 and Pro 2, yes.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 18, 2017, 02:16:42 AM
(https://scontent.ftxl1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16105483_10207913540748591_2398722645868738166_n.jpg?oh=6934974aab0068470a13d4a76a1b02bd&oe=5908955E)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: chysn on January 18, 2017, 03:55:41 AM
Interesting that there are no knobs or parameters in the picture. Just the keyboard, and played with two hands by somebody who appears to be married.

If we, as a community, alternately obsess over specifications and playability, the focus here is the playability.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: DavidDever on January 18, 2017, 04:33:21 AM
(https://scontent.ftxl1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16105483_10207913540748591_2398722645868738166_n.jpg?oh=6934974aab0068470a13d4a76a1b02bd&oe=5908955E)

Hmm–does not look like a CME keybed–ergo, not likely inexpensive–nor does it look like Fatar keys (though the image is quite blurry)....
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on January 18, 2017, 04:49:42 AM
Hmm–does not look like a CME keybed–ergo, not likely inexpensive–nor does it look like Fatar keys (though the image is quite blurry)....

Maybe its their first mini-keys instrument? Who knows!?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 18, 2017, 04:59:57 AM
Maybe it comes with a marriage certificate.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on January 18, 2017, 05:03:46 AM
With free partner upgrades.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 18, 2017, 07:12:43 AM
Hmph, the first synthesizer designed specifically for married men.  I would have expected it to be monophonic.  :D
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on January 18, 2017, 07:20:56 AM
Oh it can be polyphonic but at most two of the voices sound fully evolved.

Perhaps that could finally be the case for fully multi-timbral DSI instruments?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 18, 2017, 07:25:12 AM
Regardless, I naturally like the emphasis.  This one is clearly a musical instrument for keyboardists. 

Now when will DSI produce a pedalboard synthesizer?  Oh, come on now, I'm trying to start a revolution in the synthesizer world.  Free up your left hands!  A pedalboard in every rig!
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: bozo on January 18, 2017, 07:27:40 AM
Hmph, the first synthesizer designed specifically for married men.  I would have expected it to be monophonic.
I would say it would have a top cover that made it look like a beat up SQ-2 you could buy in a pawn shop for $75?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 18, 2017, 07:45:12 AM
Oh it can be polyphonic but at most two of the voices sound fully evolved.

Perhaps that could finally be the case for fully multi-timbral DSI instruments?

The ongoing struggle between marriage and multi-timbrality?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 18, 2017, 07:49:14 AM
What does the C#m7 chord tell us?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 18, 2017, 07:52:13 AM
Funny, I thought that was the first inversion of an A Major.  Unless the left pincky is on an F#
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 18, 2017, 07:54:16 AM
By the way, Paul, where did you find that photograph?  I didn't see it on DSI's social media sites.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 18, 2017, 08:00:19 AM
Funny, I thought that was the first inversion of an A Major.  Unless the left pincky is on an F#

Hm, I think neither the lower F# and the A keys are pressed down here, but the first inversion of A Major might have been played before or after, which might possibly lead to further conclusions…  :o ::)

I assume, we're going to see the video this was taken from tomorrow.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 18, 2017, 08:03:00 AM
By the way, Paul, where did you find that photograph?  I didn't see it on DSI's social media sites.

Oh sh*t, I forgot about the NDA!! - No, seriously, it appeared on my Facebook timeline this morning and it was posted by Mark Wilcox.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 18, 2017, 08:08:17 AM
DSI's Instagram has a photograph of two lads sitting with four tall drinks and four shot glasses.  Hmmm, a bi-timbral eight-voice?  ;D
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 18, 2017, 08:09:11 AM
DSI's Instagram has a photograph of two lads sitting with four tall drinks and four shot glasses.  Hmmm, a bi-timbral eight-voice?  ;D

No, just having a jolly good time.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 18, 2017, 08:13:13 AM
DSI's Instagram has a photograph of two lads sitting with four tall drinks and four shot glasses.  Hmmm, a bi-timbral eight-voice?  ;D

… or can you identify the new synth from the shot glasses?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 18, 2017, 08:41:12 AM
DSI's Instagram has a photograph of two lads sitting with four tall drinks and four shot glasses.  Hmmm, a bi-timbral eight-voice?  ;D

… or can you identify the new synth from the shot glasses?

Oh yes.  Wait...I think I see a reflection.  Oh, it's only an exit sign.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on January 18, 2017, 08:44:51 AM
Now when will DSI produce a pedalboard synthesizer?  Oh, come on now, I'm trying to start a revolution in the synthesizer world.  Free up your left hands!  A pedalboard in every rig!

Would you really like to sit on the floor while adjusting parameters on a pedal board synthesizer? Seriously?

My suggestion is instead to use a module and then hope for someone like Keith McMillen to make a (possibly modular) pedal board controller that features full sized pedals and is light weight too. The question however is how many more dimensions of control a pedal board controller would benefit from. Could you see yourself use 3D control in form of pressure, position and tilt for each key independently on a pedal board synthesizer?

Which nicely rounds up to being a question of the MIDI expressiveness features in DSI modules.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on January 18, 2017, 08:47:12 AM
DSI's Instagram has a photograph of two lads sitting with four tall drinks and four shot glasses.  Hmmm, a bi-timbral eight-voice?  ;D

Looks more like a synthesizer with four analog and four digital voices! ;)

Mentioned photo: https://www.instagram.com/p/BPY4BbYj5hv/

PS: Is that Chris to the left?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 18, 2017, 08:53:28 AM
DSI's Instagram has a photograph of two lads sitting with four tall drinks and four shot glasses.  Hmmm, a bi-timbral eight-voice?  ;D

Looks more like a synthesizer with four analog and four digital voices! ;)

Mentioned photo: https://www.instagram.com/p/BPY4BbYj5hv/

PS: Is that Chris to the left?

What's analog, what's digital? The distillery or the brewery?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 18, 2017, 08:58:11 AM
Now when will DSI produce a pedalboard synthesizer?  Oh, come on now, I'm trying to start a revolution in the synthesizer world.  Free up your left hands!  A pedalboard in every rig!

Would you really like to sit on the floor while adjusting parameters on a pedal board synthesizer? Seriously?

My suggestion is instead to use a module and then hope for someone like Keith McMillen to make a (possibly modular) pedal board controller that features full sized pedals and is light weight too. The question however is how many more dimensions of control a pedal board controller would benefit from. Could you see yourself use 3D control in form of pressure, position and tilt for each key independently on a pedal board synthesizer?

Which nicely rounds up to being a question of the MIDI expressiveness features in DSI modules.

I realize this statement may be outrageous on a synthesizer forum, but the pedalboard doesn't need to be re-invented.  It only needs to be available in different sizes.  Velocity, aftertouch, and so on?  Whatever.  A pedalboard can do so much as a simple on/off trigger.  In addition, it doesn't have to be used exclusively for bass.  The organ literature often uses it to play melodies.  I suppose a synthesist could also use it for effects and percussion.  Its strength and uniqueness, though, is in its ability to provide a strong bass and to free up one's left hand for playing additional parts.

As for your first question - who's sitting on the floor?  I'm sitting on an organ bench with the sound source for my pedalboard - an Evolver Desktop - placed on a music stand at my eye level.  It has to be at that level, because I'm often changing it while performing.  These issues are worked out quite easily.

An additional feature could be to provide some form of foot triggers for changing programs.  Pipe organs have toe pistons.  One press of a piston with your foot and the registration for the entire organ is instantly changed.  Imagine the power if this were adapted for the synthesizer.  Hammond has done this somewhat, but poorly in my opinion.

The synthesizer pedalboard is the greatest invention still waiting to be added to the synthesist's set up.  Believe me, it would transform the medium in a short period of time.  And then synthesists would ask, "How did we ever manage without it?"
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on January 18, 2017, 09:07:44 AM
The ongoing struggle between marriage and multi-timbrality?

Exactly! Wonder how the corresponding octaver related product would be? Perhaps a new family of behavior shifting algorithms?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 18, 2017, 09:36:24 AM
I just saw an advertisement on a Japanese page for a new module posted on the Gear Slutz forum.  I'm not sure if there's any legitimacy for it.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 18, 2017, 09:43:20 AM
Well, it's just a Stereoping Synth Controller on top of a Prophet VS, not really related to any NAMM news.

http://www.stereoping.com/synth-controller-pagesections/?lang=en
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 18, 2017, 09:48:05 AM
Yeah I was confused by it as well. I didn't think DSI would bring something like that out without bringing out a keyboard version first.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 18, 2017, 09:51:52 AM
Too bad.  I'd be thrilled to see a DSI multi-effects unit in that sort of configuration.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 18, 2017, 09:58:08 AM
Too bad.  I'd be thrilled to see a DSI multi-effects unit in that sort of configuration.

Well, we all know by now that something bigger is going to be announced. So if anything like an effect box would be released, it would have to happen later this year. Plus: We also know that the goal of developing cheaper products is basically a thing of the past now.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on January 18, 2017, 09:58:24 AM
I realize this statement may be outrageous on a synthesizer forum, but the pedalboard doesn't need to be re-invented.  It only needs to be available in different sizes.  Velocity, aftertouch, and so on?  Whatever.  A pedalboard can do so much as a simple on/off trigger.  In addition, it doesn't have to be used exclusively for bass.  The organ literature often uses it to play melodies.  The synthesist could also use it for effects and percussion.

As for your first question - who's sitting on the floor?  I'm sitting on an organ bench with the sound source for my pedalboard - an Evolver Desktop - placed on a music stand at my eye level.  It has to be at that level, because I'm often changing it while performing.  These things are worked out quite easily. 

The synthesizer pedalboard is the greatest invention still waiting to be added to the synthesist's set up.  Believe me, it would transform the medium in a short period of time.  And then synthesists would ask, "How did we ever manage without it?"

No questioning of the need for pedal boards for synthesizer players wanting it.

To me it looks like what is needed are more affordable lighter weight pedal board controllers. I think it would be very cool if a company like KMI did a new take on pedal boards. They are already developing a folding version of their new full sized keyboard controller and that would be perfect for pedal boards. Or perhaps a company making carbon fiber products could team up with an existing manufacturer of pedal boards to make a lighter weight solution.

And thanks for showing your setup. To me it looks like the perfect solution is to consider the pedal board an alternate controller being connected to a synthesizer module just like you do it now. In other words: a pedal board synthesizer would be too much integration compared to the multi-use advantage of ordinary modules. Not at least because of the cost and complexity of finding the right pedal board to integrate into it.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 18, 2017, 10:00:38 AM
Too bad.  I'd be thrilled to see a DSI multi-effects unit in that sort of configuration.

Well, we all know by now that something bigger is going to be announced. So if anything like an effect box would be released, it would have to happen later this year. Plus: We also know that the goal of developing cheaper products is basically a thing of the past now.

Yes, but maybe DSI will announce at NAMM the smaller product to be released later this year.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 18, 2017, 10:06:26 AM
And thanks for showing your setup. To me it looks like the perfect solution is to consider the pedal board an alternate controller being connected to a synthesizer module just like you do it now. In other words: a pedal board synthesizer would be too much integration compared to the multi-use advantage of ordinary modules. Not at least because of the cost and complexity of finding the right pedal board to integrate into it.

Again, I don't think inventiveness is needed here.  It's a simple matter; take a pedalboard of whatever size and use it to control your favorite synthesizer module.  Both exist.  There are several one-octave pedalboards already available from various companies, and larger sizes as well.  Modules are everywhere.  It's only a matter of planting the idea and synthesists realizing what a golden opportunity it is.  Fuseball has taken up the challenge.  I hope others try it as well.

I mean, I'm only hoping to collect royalties for the idea, that's all.  ;D
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on January 18, 2017, 10:07:59 AM
The image posted by Paul Dither earlier today is now officially on their social media:
https://twitter.com/dsiSequential/status/821779664612032520

(together with a little uncontrollable fanboyism)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 18, 2017, 10:14:37 AM
In other words: a pedal board synthesizer would be too much integration compared to the multi-use advantage of ordinary modules. Not at least because of the cost and complexity of finding the right pedal board to integrate into it.

With all due respect I might add that the need for pedal keys is also extremely small if you take it outside the organ world, as there are not that many synthesizer players who perform within an organ setup. Of all rather classic synth performers only Wendy Carlos' studio setup comes to my mind. So I think with the most prominent offers by Nord and Hammond, this highly specialized market is already well-covered - also for synth users. And MIDI pedal keys also offer far more flexibility than pedal keys with an integrated synth engine would, since they allow you to control whatever you like with them.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on January 18, 2017, 10:22:18 AM
Again, I don't think inventiveness is needed here.  It's a simple matter; take a pedalboard of whatever size and use it to control your favorite synthesizer module.  Both exist.  There are several one-octave pedalboards already available from various companies, and larger sizes as well.

And yet the best ones are way too expensive and way too heavy according to your earlier posts. So there are a need for new pedal board controllers. But of cause that is a minor point.

Fingers crossed for your royalties plot! ;)

With all due respect I might add that the need for pedal keys is also extremely small if you take it outside the organ world, as there are not that many synthesizer players who perform within an organ setup.

Yeah its a speciality product. And yet there are room for expanding the market once synthesizer players realize there are a potential in their use. I have placed pedal boards in the alternate controller world even though its a very old innovation.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 18, 2017, 10:28:38 AM
In other words: a pedal board synthesizer would be too much integration compared to the multi-use advantage of ordinary modules. Not at least because of the cost and complexity of finding the right pedal board to integrate into it.

With all due respect I might add that the need for pedal keys is also extremely small if you take it outside the organ world, as there are not that many synthesizer players who perform within an organ setup. Of all rather classic synth performers only Wendy Carlos' studio setup comes to my mind. So I think with the most prominent offers by Nord and Hammond, this highly specialized market is already well-covered - also for synth users. And MIDI pedal keys also offer far more flexibility than pedal keys with an integrated synth engine would, since they allow you to control whatever you like with them.

My point is, that's the problem - it's still specialized.  There's no need for this, as if it's only for trained organists to use pedalboards. Consider typical electronica/ambient: it most often uses long lumbering sustained bass notes.  It would take minimal skill to play these on a one-octave pedalboard, not much more than it takes to adapt to mini keys.

There's no reason for this idea not to take off, except that it's new and hasn't been seriously considered.  Synthesists are very much into new things and experimentation.  Well, here's something new and worth trying.  You guys are fascinated by new devices for triggering synthesizers.  Well, here's another device.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 18, 2017, 10:38:26 AM
Still no idea why Moog discontinued the Tarus Pedals. They should bring them back out again.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 18, 2017, 10:41:07 AM
Still no idea why Moog discontinued the Tarus Pedals. They should bring them back out again.

If I remember correctly, they were a commercial disaster. So they just released its engine separately: the Minitaur.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 18, 2017, 10:44:24 AM
And yet the best ones are way too expensive and way too heavy according to your earlier posts. So there are a need for new pedal board controllers. But of cause that is a minor point.

And as we all know, synthesists just hate buying lots of expensive equipment....
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 18, 2017, 10:51:03 AM
Still no idea why Moog discontinued the Tarus Pedals. They should bring them back out again.

If I remember correctly, they were a commercial disaster. So they just released its engine separately: the Minitaur.

The problem with the Moog Taurus pedals (and I owned the original set years ago) was that they were seemingly designed for free-standing guitarists who could easily bend over and program them.  A keyboardist performs in a totally different physical arrangement.  The controls need to be a separate module from the pedals, and the synthesist needs to be seated at a bench over the instrument so that both feet are free to play pedal lines.  If the pedals are played while standing, then only one foot can play them at a time, which restricts the playing immensely and limits the performer primarily to long slow notes.  Nor can they play more than one note at a time.  When I was spending more time composing organ music, I found it tremendously powerful to end a piece by adding in the pedals the fifth to the root.  I can't presently do that on my monophonic pedal configuration, but I intend to in the future.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 18, 2017, 10:55:57 AM
I honestly wonder if we'll ever see something like the Alesis Andromeda again. It's always been one I've been interested in but I think it was a bit ahead of it's time and came out way before the analog resurgence. I think if a company developed something similar now it would be more than well received. It's insanely powerful.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 18, 2017, 10:58:55 AM
Still no idea why Moog discontinued the Tarus Pedals. They should bring them back out again.

If I remember correctly, they were a commercial disaster. So they just released its engine separately: the Minitaur.

The problem with the Moog Taurus pedals (and I owned the original set years ago) was that they were seemingly designed for free-standing guitarists who could easily bend over and program them.  A keyboardist performs in a totally different physical arrangement.  The controls need to be a separate module from the pedals, and the synthesist needs to be seated at a bench over the instrument so that both feet are free to play pedal lines.  If the pedals are played while standing, then only one foot can play them at a time, which restricts the playing immensely and limits the performer primarily to long slow notes.  Nor can they play more than one note at a time.  When I was spending more time composing organ music, I found it tremendously powerful to end a piece by adding in the pedals the fifth to the root.  I can't presently do that on my monophonic pedal configuration.

OR if you don't care anymore, you could just smash them with your fists dramatically like Mo Foster.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on January 18, 2017, 11:21:25 AM
When I was spending more time composing organ music, I found it tremendously powerful to end a piece by adding in the pedals the fifth to the root.  I can't presently do that on my monophonic pedal configuration, but I intend to in the future.

Sounds like a larger mixer and finding a used Evolver Desktop.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 18, 2017, 12:14:00 PM
You're right in both cases.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 18, 2017, 12:20:40 PM
I honestly wonder if we'll ever see something like the Alesis Andromeda again. It's always been one I've been interested in but I think it was a bit ahead of it's time and came out way before the analog resurgence. I think if a company developed something similar now it would be more than well received. It's insanely powerful.

I was a great admirer of the Andromeda and came close to buying one.  In the end, I chose not to, due to the instrument's bugs and the famously poor support offered by Alesis.  But I still have a dream of finding a similar instrument.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on January 18, 2017, 12:23:53 PM
I was a great admirer of the Andromeda and came close to buying one.  In the end, I chose not to, due to the instrument's bugs and the famously poor support offered by Alesis.  But I still have a dream of finding a similar instrument.


+ 1
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 18, 2017, 12:35:56 PM
(https://scontent.ftxl1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16105483_10207913540748591_2398722645868738166_n.jpg?oh=6934974aab0068470a13d4a76a1b02bd&oe=5908955E)

That instrument most closely resembles a Prophet-6.  The more Prophets the merrier!
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 18, 2017, 12:43:43 PM
That instrument most closely resembles a Prophet-6.  The more Prophets the merrier!

How can you tell?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 18, 2017, 12:49:45 PM
I'm not saying it is a Prophet-6, but only that it resembles it.  Only the P-6 has that amount of blank black control panel just above the keyboard.  All the other instruments have controls or panel designs just above the keyboard.

So far, I absolutely love the new synthesizer.  :D
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 18, 2017, 12:55:56 PM
Yeah, that's true. Although the space at the bottom of the front panel seems to be a bit wider on this one. But then, we don't know what's underneath the NAMM banner. It's also hard to tell whether the color is actually black or anthracite (like on the most recent offerings with the exception of the OB-6).
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on January 18, 2017, 12:59:57 PM
Yeah, that's true. Although the space at the bottom of the front panel seems to be a bit wider on this one. But then, we don't know what's underneath the NAMM banner. It's also hard to tell whether the color is actually black or anthracite (like on the most recent offerings with the exception of the OB-6).
... or if it was "Photo-shopped" black to hide whatever it is....
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 18, 2017, 01:00:55 PM
Yeah, that's true. Although the space at the bottom of the front panel seems to be a bit wider on this one. But then, we don't know what's underneath the NAMM banner. It's also hard to tell whether the color is actually black or anthracite (like on the most recent offerings with the exception of the OB-6).
... or if it was "Photo-shopped" black to hide whatever it is....

Yep, that's the other option.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 18, 2017, 01:05:03 PM
I doubt it.  It looks pretty natural as it is.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 18, 2017, 01:15:50 PM
I doubt it.  It looks pretty natural as it is.

Yeah, looks legit if you lighten it up.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on January 18, 2017, 01:25:00 PM
I doubt it.  It looks pretty natural as it is.

Yeah, looks legit if you lighten it up.
Yeah, it'd be impossible to photoshop it.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 18, 2017, 01:30:11 PM
It's not a matter of impossibility.  I just don't think the guys at DSI would go to so much trouble over a single photograph.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 18, 2017, 01:30:44 PM
I doubt it.  It looks pretty natural as it is.

Yeah, looks legit if you lighten it up.
Yeah, it'd be impossible to photoshop it.

Well, you can see the different shades of light even at the low resolution. So that makes a difference to the auto-fill function.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 18, 2017, 01:45:28 PM
So it has at least


Oh, and married people seem to like it.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on January 18, 2017, 01:46:34 PM
So it has at least

  • 4-voice polyphony,
  • a 3 octave keyboard,
  • and a good amount of blank space just above the keyboard.
Oh, and married people seem to like it.


They'll sell millions of 'em!
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 18, 2017, 01:49:03 PM
It's already a classic.  I'll take four.  No, wait - make that six.  And when will the module be available?  Uh, yeah - two, please.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 18, 2017, 01:52:09 PM
This is really the end. I mean everyone's search for the perfect synthesizer will be over by tomorrow.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on January 18, 2017, 01:54:47 PM
It's already a classic.  I'll take four.  When will the module be available?
Images of the module have already been leaked on other social media sites....
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 18, 2017, 01:58:39 PM
It's already a classic.  I'll take four.  When will the module be available?
Images of the module have already been leaked on other social media sites....

Gasp!  I love it!  It's so...consistent. 
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on January 18, 2017, 02:00:10 PM
... and in less than 24h this thread will be all but forgotten....
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 18, 2017, 02:03:19 PM
... and in less than 24h this thread will be all but forgotten....

Nah, it says "Next New DSI Instrument," so it will go on for a while.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 18, 2017, 02:09:19 PM
As soon as we have a name, the new thread begins. 
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: chysn on January 18, 2017, 02:16:03 PM
But then, we don't know what's underneath the NAMM banner.

I was thinking the same; a photo like this could be done with the X4, for example. Maybe it's a Mopho X8!
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 18, 2017, 02:18:18 PM
I'm frothing at the mouth. Please let it have splits and layers.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on January 18, 2017, 02:25:28 PM
Wonder if a dealer makes the same stunt as last year where the OB-6 was announced a few hours too early because of messed up website configuration and/or sales department sloppiness?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 18, 2017, 02:41:04 PM
But then, we don't know what's underneath the NAMM banner.

I was thinking the same; a photo like this could be done with the X4, for example. Maybe it's a Mopho X8!

Wouldn't that be a Prophet '08?

No, please tell me the name "Mopho" is gone forever.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 18, 2017, 02:47:39 PM
No, please tell me the name "Mopho" is gone forever.

Psychoanalysis was invented for that issue.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 18, 2017, 02:54:39 PM
But then, we don't know what's underneath the NAMM banner.

I was thinking the same; a photo like this could be done with the X4, for example. Maybe it's a Mopho X8!

Wouldn't that be a Prophet '08?

Strictly speaking: no. A Mopho x4 has 2 sub-oscillators and a feedback section, which is something the Prophet '08 is lacking as well as a USB connection.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 18, 2017, 02:56:37 PM
I know, I know.  In a general way, a Mopho x8 would be a Prophet '08.

I'm still smarting that DSI never made a Tetr4 Keyboard.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on January 18, 2017, 03:10:03 PM
Next up will be the Polyphonic Prophet affectionally known as "Popho".
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 18, 2017, 03:15:10 PM
Wouldn't that be "Popro"?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on January 18, 2017, 03:20:53 PM
In theory yes but with the intended semantics in mind the "h" is much easier to pronounce around than the "r" is.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 18, 2017, 03:25:48 PM
It's actually a non-programmable monophonic instrument with a mono signal, one digital oscillator, no noise, no glide, no sequencer or arpeggiator, a non-resonant 4-pole lowpass filter, a single two-stage envelope, no LFO's, no velocity or after touch, and two octaves of reverse-colored mini keys.  It's called the Prophet BS.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 18, 2017, 03:30:11 PM
I just wanna synth that's called "Dr. Freud."
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on January 18, 2017, 03:34:41 PM
I just wanna synth that's called "Dr. Freud."

If using a keyboard is okay with you simply type "ESC x doctor" followed by return in Emacs and help will be there immediately. Its said to be a she though.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 18, 2017, 03:45:36 PM
I just wanna synth that's called "Dr. Freud."

If using a keyboard is okay with you simply type "ESC x doctor" followed by return in Emacs and help will be there immediately. Its said to be a she though.

But I don't wanna escape with a random doctor.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 18, 2017, 03:47:44 PM
Here's one more:

(https://scontent.ftxl1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15977975_10207918881722112_8143067055650311587_n.jpg?oh=3486f483d72185a1341aced4db74c990&oe=5922FD99)

Note says: "Setting up the booth. Tomorrow at 10 AM we go live."
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: chysn on January 18, 2017, 05:36:13 PM
That's probably 10:00 PST, which is 13:00 for me. I'll be in a "discovery meeting" learning about software scope. I'm sure I'll be forgiven for tuning out for a little while, though. Tuning out is what agile development is all about.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Albert Ross on January 18, 2017, 06:08:07 PM
Interesting that in the banner is the Pro 2 / 12 Livery...... Maybe a real poly Pro 2? a replacement mono is also overdue....

Why can't it be tomorrow today!
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 18, 2017, 06:39:42 PM
Sonicstate teaser: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9i7q-I6aW-s

If you're impatient, jump to 4:00.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: BobTheDog on January 19, 2017, 12:44:20 AM
Hmph, the first synthesizer designed specifically for married men.  I would have expected it to be monophonic.  :D

Or you can only play with it once a Week/Month/Year depending on how long you have had it.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: TacticalHamster on January 19, 2017, 02:39:30 AM
That's probably 10:00 PST, which is 13:00 for me. I'll be in a "discovery meeting" learning about software scope. I'm sure I'll be forgiven for tuning out for a little while, though. Tuning out is what agile development is all about.

Ha! I'm also a software architect, and will be in meetings most of NAMM. Gotta sneak off on the phone under the table to see what's going on.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: TacticalHamster on January 19, 2017, 03:02:42 AM
Seeing that pic, with the possibly different keybed, demo of poly, and blank console...I'm hoping it's not some form of an EP (throwback, unique, clav, etc). That would be a snore fest   ???

Crossing fingers for something forward-moving/unique or dual-voiced/filtered analog heaven.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: DavidDever on January 19, 2017, 05:43:05 AM
I'll be in a "discovery meeting" learning about software scope. I'm sure I'll be forgiven for tuning out for a little while, though. Tuning out is what agile development is all about.
lol - back home myself after a few weeks' worth of meetings, hoping to code without administrative distraction!
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on January 19, 2017, 07:11:07 AM
https://youtu.be/JUDZoDJHzdA

Prophet 6 one voice synth :)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 20, 2017, 03:57:25 PM
(http://i59.tinypic.com/35jyqsn.jpg)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 23, 2017, 02:35:23 PM
With the REV2 now announced to quite a bit of excitement, I'm expecting the used market to be flooded with Prophet '08's at low prices, but I haven't seen it yet.  Ebay and Reverb prices for the keyboard version are still at $1,300 and up, and even Poly Evolver Keyboards are still above $2,000.  But there are quite a few now available.  Perhaps when the REV2 is finally shipping, prices for the other two instruments will nose dive.  It will be a difficult time to sell.

Incidentally, the substantially expanded REV2 and the Poly Evolver Keyboard would make a fabulous combination.  I've always felt the PEK somewhat dwarfed the P'08, but the "updated" P'08 has somewhat caught up to it in both physical size and substance.  The REV2 control board is a bit deeper, front to back, than the old P'08.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 23, 2017, 03:03:54 PM
With the REV2 now announced to quite a bit of excitement, I'm expecting the used market to be flooded with Prophet '08's at low prices, but I haven't seen it yet.  Ebay and Reverb prices for the keyboard version are still at $1,300 and up, and even Poly Evolver Keyboards are still above $2,000.  But there are quite a few now available.  Perhaps when the REV2 is finally shipping, prices for the other two instruments will nose dive.  It will be a difficult time to sell.

I'm not sure whether the used market will be flooded with Prophet '08s automatically. But I guess it's safe to assume that those who plan on selling their Prophet '08s might have to sell them at prices that are below the reduced prices for which they could be had by the end of last year. Based on that I'd say that the best time for selling Prophet '08s was probably before last year's price drop (which was the second I think, as it sold for $2,099.00 originally).
It's also not that the Prophet '08 has gone completely with the REV2, since the latter still is a Prophet '08 at its core. So as long as the REV2 is in production, the typical vintage synth logic won't really work, except for those people who prefer the appearance of the Prophet '08. That's the major difference with regard to the Evolver, which is a true vintage piece by now that was also sold in fewer quantities, which also makes it rarer and hence leads to higher prices on the used market.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: synthguy on May 01, 2017, 08:37:45 PM
Hey, new here.  Yet another refugee from GS.   ;)  This isn't a bad way to start off.

With the P REV2 about to appear, what would the class here be looking forward to in 2018?  Some new flagship?  This is what I'm hoping for, as the REV2 dukes it out with the likes of the PEAK and that dreaded DM12 in the mid price bracket.  So assuming it's a flagship, what do you guys expect or want?

Personally, I'd rather not see another hybrid, as the Pro2 and P~12 handle that aspect more than capably.  Not a new take on the VS or PolyEvolver either.  I'd much rather see a super Prophet like a T-8 on steroids, with hopefully a polypressure keyboard.  Or a monster Obie like a Matrix-12 style synth.  Or dare I say it, helping Moog out the way Dave did with Tom and making a poly-Moog, with Moog branding.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on May 02, 2017, 11:50:11 AM
Welcome to the DSI Forum, Synthguy.  Since you've come from GS, you may need to enlist in our series of intensive deprogramming sessions in which, after having several differences of opinions with other posters, you'll be physically restrained and made to respond to them without profanity, abuse, or face-in-palm emoticons.  If you survive, then you'll be declared clean and fit to post. 

Welcome, welcome.  ;D

Regarding your question, I'm always hoping for the same from DSI - first, a large VCO poly synth.  I realize the Prophet Rev2 may be as large as DSI goes, but I'd love to see a really big all-analog instrument - say, a cross between the Prophet 12 and the Prophet-6.  Second, I hope to see a VCO mono synth - in this case, a cross between the Pro 2 and the Prophet-6.  I'd even be happy with a 3 1/2- 4 octave keyboard version of the Toraiz AS-1 if it had the typical DSI control panel. 

As for actual expectations, I had thought DSI would produce an all-digital synthesizer, but that apparently isn't going to happen.  And with the PEAK in the air, I would expect a true successor to the Poly Evolver to be even less likely than before.  I'm all out of expectations.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: DavidDever on May 02, 2017, 12:18:47 PM
Welcome to the DSI Forum, Synthguy.  Since you've come from GS, you may need to enlist in our series of intensive deprogramming sessions in which, after having several differences of opinions with other posters, you'll be physically restrained and made to respond to them without profanity, abuse, or face-in-palm emoticons.  If you survive, then you'll be declared clean and fit to post. 

Welcome, welcome.  ;D

lol
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on May 02, 2017, 02:01:05 PM
I'm at a complete loss as to what to expect next. I'm still pushing for one of the following

Prophet 20 with multitimbrality (although this could be tricky with finding a balance between menu diving and a direct hands on experience)

Prophet X (A complete digital synth with boy VS and FM capabilities as well as sampling).....but this could easily happen with an OS upgrade for the Prophet 12 that adds more VS waves and samples from the Prophet 2000 as oscillator shape options.

Much like how the Rev2 is essentially two Prophet 08s under one hood (with a better) layout could we see the same thing happen with the Prophet 6 as sort of a throwback to the Prophet 10? With the OPTION to hook a controller up to the synth and play each engine on separate keybeds as well as the ability to split and layer on a single keybed. With no menu in keeping true to the Prophet 6 tradition and layout.

Would we see an the idea Pioneer AS-1 as an actual successor of the Pro 2 with 4 independent VCO based AS-1 engines under one hood with a fatar keybed allowing 4 different patches and sequences to be played independently? The PRO-4?

More importantly to me....will we ever see the Sequential name on anything again?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on May 02, 2017, 02:01:17 PM
As for actual expectations, I had thought DSI would produce an all-digital synthesizer, but that apparently isn't going to happen.  And with the PEAK in the air, I would expect a true successor to the Poly Evolver to be even less likely than before.  I'm all out of expectations.
Not sure about that one... If DSI had a new digital synth in the works, R&D would have started long before DSI ever heard of the Peak.  I doubt news of a competitor synth would have them abandon the R&D that was already in progress.   Right?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on May 02, 2017, 02:27:25 PM
As for actual expectations, I had thought DSI would produce an all-digital synthesizer, but that apparently isn't going to happen.  And with the PEAK in the air, I would expect a true successor to the Poly Evolver to be even less likely than before.  I'm all out of expectations.
Not sure about that one... If DSI had a new digital synth in the works, R&D would have started long before DSI ever heard of the Peak.  I doubt news of a competitor synth would have them abandon the R&D that was already in progress.   Right?

I don't know.  DSI seems to operate at least somewhat independently of the market.  I'm just saying that, if they were considering a revived Evolver, the PEAK would make this an inopportune time to release it.  I'm sure many of their instrument ideas end up on the cutting room floor.  But more importantly, Robot Heart has plainly stated that it's fairly certain Dave will not make a Poly Evolver Keyboard Mk II, so that's the end of that hope.  Personally, I would have been thrilled if they did with the PEK what they've done with the Prophet '08 in the Rev2.  It would have been so gratifying to see the old flagship given a new coat of blue paint.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on May 03, 2017, 05:01:11 AM
As for actual expectations, I had thought DSI would produce an all-digital synthesizer, but that apparently isn't going to happen.  And with the PEAK in the air, I would expect a true successor to the Poly Evolver to be even less likely than before.  I'm all out of expectations.
Not sure about that one... If DSI had a new digital synth in the works, R&D would have started long before DSI ever heard of the Peak.  I doubt news of a competitor synth would have them abandon the R&D that was already in progress.   Right?

I don't know.  DSI seems to operate at least somewhat independently of the market.  I'm just saying that, if they were considering a revived Evolver, the PEAK would make this an inopportune time to release it.  I'm sure many of their instrument ideas end up on the cutting room floor.  But more importantly, Robot Heart has plainly stated that it's fairly certain Dave will not make a Poly Evolver Keyboard Mk II, so that's the end of that hope.  Personally, I would have been thrilled if they did with the PEK what they've done with the Prophet '08 in the Rev2.  It would have been so gratifying to see the old flagship given a new coat of blue paint.

Dave also once stated he would never make a new VCO based synth which he ended up doing.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on May 03, 2017, 07:26:02 AM
That's right; he even laughed at the idea several times.  But that's a slim reason for hope, since a VCO synth is a general idea, whereas the Poly Evolver is a specific instrument.  I think DSI would respond: The Prophet 12 is the Evolver Mk II, so the PEK will not be revisited.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on May 03, 2017, 07:56:42 AM
More importantly to me....will we ever see the Sequential name on anything again?

That is an intriguing question.  Could the name be reserved for one and only one instrument?  It seems absurd.  I suppose the Toraiz AS-1 could be partially regarded as a Sequential instrument.  But what about an all-new instrument?  And must Sequential remain a backward-looking line of synthesizers and DSI the forward-looking one? 

If we're ever to see a VCO mono synth from Dave Smith, I would say it will be through the Sequential concept.  Perhaps a Prophet 1?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on May 03, 2017, 10:36:23 AM
More importantly to me....will we ever see the Sequential name on anything again?

That is an intriguing question.  Could the name be reserved for one and only one instrument?  It seems absurd.  I suppose the Toraiz AS-1 could be partially regarded as a Sequential instrument.  But what about an all-new instrument?  And must Sequential remain a backward-looking line of synthesizers and DSI the forward-looking one?

I think ever since the Prophet-6 there was simply no reason to use the Sequential name. I guess it could have been used for the OB-6 for technical reasons, since the OB-6 was based on the topology of the Prophet-6. With regard to content, though, using the name DSI in conjunction with "Tom Oberheim" first emphasized the latest names of the designers' companies (after all, DSI is newer than Sequential) and second it also drew more attention to the two individuals Dave and Tom.

As the REV2 is an upgraded Prophet '08, the name DSI was mandatory. That pretty much only leaves the AS-1, for which the Sequential banner could have been rightly used due to it being related to the Prophet-6. But I assume, since DSI is still the main or general name of the company, they choose it for collaborations. It would also be confusing if one Toraiz product carried the name DSI and the other the name Sequential.

If we're ever to see a VCO mono synth from Dave Smith, I would say it will be through the Sequential concept.  Perhaps a Prophet 1?

Well, we just saw a new monosynth like that and it's called the AS-1. And the official answer to a reissued Pro-One was the Pro 2, which is much more powerful and runs circles around a Pro-One both in terms of features and sonic flexibility. So the two extremes of a monosynth - one based on the Prophet-6 voice, one forward looking powerhouse - have already been released.
It would make little to no sense to design a third monosynth whose novelty only lies in combining the engine of the AS-1 with a housing that's similar to that of the Pro 2 in terms of size, especially since the market is already pretty saturated with VCO-based monosynths. Plus: the Prophet-6 can also already be used as that kind of monosynth with a generous keyboard. Releasing just another monosynth version that wouldn't offer anything substantially new inside would also most likely cause the then not unjustified reaction, "they're running out of ideas."

As for next designs: This is getting harder to predict, especially since the whole market situation changed significantly over the past couple of years and even months. With an increasing number of low-, mid-, and high-price competitors around who also release or start to release analog or hybrid polysynths, innovative functionality and features become more and more important in order to come up with a product that's different and unique enough. That can happen on a rather subtle level like the inclusion of new technology (an example would be the use of FPGAs in the PEAK), or on a conceptual level that provides a different take on the topology of a synth voice. While I'm not saying that we need an Evolver REV2, an instrument in the spirit of the Evolver or something like a West-Coast-inspired polysynth that chysn once insinuated would certainly cater towards a different take on the conceptual side.

An eccentric or overly experimental design, however, is not always without any risks either, as especially the Prophet '08, the Prophet-6, and the OB-6 proved that people are definitely more into simpler engines. It was never really a question, for example, whether the Poly Evolver or the Prophet '08 was the bestseller.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on May 03, 2017, 11:11:08 AM
Yes, the Prophet-6 can be used as a mono synth, but not everyone can afford a mono synth of that price.  And the Toraiz-A1 is sort of a DSI product, and sort of not.  Hence, it isn't carried on the DSI web site.  But lacking a traditional keyboard, it just can't fulfill the complete mono synth role. 

While the Prophet '08 was in production (and the Prophet '08 can be used as a mono synth), DSI offered the Tetr4, the Mopho desktop, the Mopho Keyboard, the Mopho x4, and the Mopho SE - all at the same time (even while the Evolver Desktop was still around).  So, I do think there's a precedent for a Prophet-6 and a simultaneous one-voice keyboard version of the same, in spite of the Toraiz-A1 and Pro 2. 
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: chysn on May 03, 2017, 11:47:16 AM
So, I do think there's a precedent for a Prophet-6 and a simultaneous one-voice keyboard version of the same, in spite of the Toraiz-A1.

Ah, I've been going on about this for years now. I can't remember exactly why I gave up on there being a Prophet 1, but there was definitely some post that made me realize that it isn't happening. Maybe it was something that somebody said about the Pro 2 being the DSI keyboard monosynth. Honestly, I don't remember, but I was pretty convinced at the time.

But that's okay. There's a good chance I'm going to replace my Little Phatty with Soundmachines Arches when it finally comes out.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on May 03, 2017, 12:01:35 PM
Ah, I've been going on about this for years now. I can't remember exactly why I gave up on there being a Prophet 1, but there was definitely some post that made me realize that it isn't happening. Maybe it was something that somebody said about the Pro 2 being the DSI keyboard monosynth. Honestly, I don't remember, but I was pretty convinced at the time.

I don't know because I don't have one, but can a Pro 2 really serve in the place of a Pro One type VCA synthesizer?  The former is an excellent instrument, but I don't see it as a front line analog substitute with a warm raw analog tone.  Folks, correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't presently see the Pro 2 in this way.  Otherwise, I would have bought one by now. 
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on May 03, 2017, 12:13:32 PM
Yes, the Prophet-6 can be used as a mono synth, but not everyone can afford a mono synth of that price.  And the Toraiz-A1 is sort of a DSI product, and sort of not.  Hence, it isn't carried on the DSI web site.  But lacking a traditional keyboard, it just can't fulfill the complete mono synth role.

The Prophet-6 might be an expensive choice for a monosynth, I just meant that it can technically used for this purpose in as much as a new Pro-One is already in there. And while the AS-1 is a collaborative effort, its synth voice is basically a monophonic Prophet-6.

While the Prophet '08 was in production (and the Prophet '08 can be used as a mono synth), DSI offered the Tetr4, the Mopho desktop, the Mopho Keyboard, the Mopho x4, and the Mopho SE - all at the same time (even while the Evolver monos were still around).  So, I do think there's a precedent for a Prophet-6 and a simultaneous one-voice keyboard version of the same, in spite of the Toraiz-A1.

Those were also different times though. The Mopho and Tetra were introduced before the Volcas, the MS-20 and Odyssey reissues, the MiniBrute and MicroBrute, the MatrixBrute, the Minilogue, the Dominion-1, the Sub Phatty, the Sub 37, the Mother-32, and so on. Most of these instruments, particularly the monosynths by Arturia and Korg can be produced and sold at much lower prices which is one of the reasons DSI left behind the lower price market.
The other thing is, as I've already mentioned, that there are so many monosynths on the market right now that the world isn't necessarily waiting for yet another iteration, except it's even more affordable or it offers a unique feature set and hardware implementation. Concerning the latter, you might regard the MatrixBrute as the all-analog sibling of the Pro 2. So that spot has been filled as well.

What also changed is that in 2017 DSI are no longer competing with themselves when it comes to new analog or hybrid polysynths. Behringer now offers the DM12 and DM6, there's Novation's Peak which gained high interest, Waldorf's Quantum, and Modal's 002 and 008 in the higher price range. I would even add something like the Abyss by Dreadbox which is already pretty popular before it has even been released and - for those who don't care about whether it's truly analog or not - Roland's System-8. Those are all different choices for different priorities that didn't exist when the Prophet '08 was introduced for example.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on May 03, 2017, 12:28:17 PM
Ah, I've been going on about this for years now. I can't remember exactly why I gave up on there being a Prophet 1, but there was definitely some post that made me realize that it isn't happening. Maybe it was something that somebody said about the Pro 2 being the DSI keyboard monosynth. Honestly, I don't remember, but I was pretty convinced at the time.

I don't know because I don't have one, but can a Pro 2 really serve in the place of a Pro One type VCA synthesizer?  The former is an excellent instrument, but I don't see it as a front line analog substitute with a warm raw analog tone.  Folks, correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't presently see the Pro 2 in this way.  Otherwise, I would have bought one by now.

The Pro 2 can be many things. I personally never had the impression that the analog waveforms would scream "I'm a digital version of a VCO" at me. I find them pleasant sounding and particularly the sine wave has loads of bottom end. They are stable, but that's what the Slop parameter is for which can be used in a very subtle or wild manner just like the distortion can be used to spice up the sound to variying degrees, not to mention the trillion modulation options. All that and the sequencer as well as the paraphonic features make this a truly unique and utterly powerful monosynth that I regard as more of an Evolver successor than the Prophet 12.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: DavidDever on May 03, 2017, 12:28:40 PM
It's probably worth an excursion to civilization (though I realize that you're probably not that far away) to try one.

I'm really quite happy with mine, though I understand that keybed span might be an issue.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on May 03, 2017, 12:29:11 PM
There's a good chance I'm going to replace my Little Phatty with Soundmachines Arches when it finally comes out.

Interesting. I didn't pay attention to this one.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on May 03, 2017, 01:41:44 PM
The Pro 2 can be many things. I personally never had the impression that the analog waveforms would scream "I'm a digital version of a VCO" at me. I find them pleasant sounding and particularly the sine wave has loads of bottom end. They are stable, but that's what the Slop parameter is for which can be used in a very subtle or wild manner just like the distortion can be used to spice up the sound to variying degrees, not to mention the trillion modulation options. All that and the sequencer as well as the paraphonic features make this a truly unique and utterly powerful monosynth that I regard as more of an Evolver successor than the Prophet 12.
One of my favorite Pro-2 tricks is to modulate the Slop amount with a slow, slewed random LFO... Dial it is as subtle or wild as you want. Gives life to the sound that screams analogue.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on May 03, 2017, 01:51:58 PM
More importantly to me....will we ever see the Sequential name on anything again?

That is an intriguing question.  Could the name be reserved for one and only one instrument?  It seems absurd.  I suppose the Toraiz AS-1 could be partially regarded as a Sequential instrument.  But what about an all-new instrument?  And must Sequential remain a backward-looking line of synthesizers and DSI the forward-looking one?

I think ever since the Prophet-6 there was simply no reason to use the Sequential name. I guess it could have been used for the OB-6 for technical reasons, since the OB-6 was based on the topology of the Prophet-6. With regard to content, though, using the name DSI in conjunction with "Tom Oberheim" first emphasized the latest names of the designers' companies (after all, DSI is newer than Sequential) and second it also drew more attention to the two individuals Dave and Tom.

As the REV2 is an upgraded Prophet '08, the name DSI was mandatory. That pretty much only leaves the AS-1, for which the Sequential banner could have been rightly used due to it being related to the Prophet-6. But I assume, since DSI is still the main or general name of the company, they choose it for collaborations. It would also be confusing if one Toraiz product carried the name DSI and the other the name Sequential.

If we're ever to see a VCO mono synth from Dave Smith, I would say it will be through the Sequential concept.  Perhaps a Prophet 1?

Well, we just saw a new monosynth like that and it's called the AS-1. And the official answer to a reissued Pro-One was the Pro 2, which is much more powerful and runs circles around a Pro-One both in terms of features and sonic flexibility. So the two extremes of a monosynth - one based on the Prophet-6 voice, one forward looking powerhouse - have already been released.
It would make little to no sense to design a third monosynth whose novelty only lies in combining the engine of the AS-1 with a housing that's similar to that of the Pro 2 in terms of size, especially since the market is already pretty saturated with VCO-based monosynths. Plus: the Prophet-6 can also already be used as that kind of monosynth with a generous keyboard. Releasing just another monosynth version that wouldn't offer anything substantially new inside would also most likely cause the then not unjustified reaction, "they're running out of ideas."

As for next designs: This is getting harder to predict, especially since the whole market situation changed significantly over the past couple of years and even months. With an increasing number of low-, mid-, and high-price competitors around who also release or start to release analog or hybrid polysynths, innovative functionality and features become more and more important in order to come up with a product that's different and unique enough. That can happen on a rather subtle level like the inclusion of new technology (an example would be the use of FPGAs in the PEAK), or on a conceptual level that provides a different take on the topology of a synth voice. While I'm not saying that we need an Evolver REV2, an instrument in the spirit of the Evolver or something like a West-Coast-inspired polysynth that chysn once insinuated would certainly cater towards a different take on the conceptual side.

An eccentric or overly experimental design, however, is not always without any risks either, as especially the Prophet '08, the Prophet-6, and the OB-6 proved that people are definitely more into simpler engines. It was never really a question, for example, whether the Poly Evolver or the Prophet '08 was the bestseller.

I'd be horribly disappointed if I don't ever see the Sequential name again. Why not have DSI for affordably priced synths and Sequential reserved for VCO based or higher priced synths or perhaps throwback type synths.

What is puzzling to me is Dave has often said "If you want more of X simply use the module" yet essentially the Rev 2 is just two 08 modules together with a better layout. So are we to expect a Prophet 6 Rev 2? Hell, let's take it one step further....4 synth engines under one hood. Prophet x4. With four patches that can be zoned across the key bed or stacked. With a simple 4 rows of Prophet 6/OB6 patch/ bank selection. Keep it away from the menu diving.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on May 03, 2017, 02:12:32 PM
One of my favorite Pro-2 tricks is to modulate the Slop amount with a slow, slewed random LFO... Dial it is as subtle or wild as you want. Gives life to the sound that screams analogue.

Exactly. And by that you also mentioned another incredible option: the LFO slew parameter which comes in handy when you try to find the right balance between the modulation amount and the overall modulation intensity or rather amplitude. As for achieving a pleasant analog tone: With the help of subtle distortion you can easily thicken the sound by adding more harmonics and not necessarily distorting it in the typical distortion effect manner. In that sense you can make it work a bit like a boost pedal. That also works incredibly well on rather digital and ethereal pad sounds. Add a bit of delay to that and you'll end up with quite huge sounding pads. In fact, I would say that I did most of my favorite pad sounds on the Pro 2, as it also provides the most delicious filter combo of any DSI synth in my view.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on May 03, 2017, 02:26:41 PM
I'd be horribly disappointed if I don't ever see the Sequential name again. Why not have DSI for affordably priced synths and Sequential reserved for VCO based or higher priced synths or perhaps throwback type synths.

What is puzzling to me is Dave has often said "If you want more of X simply use the module" yet essentially the Rev 2 is just two 08 modules together with a better layout. So are we to expect a Prophet 6 Rev 2? Hell, let's take it one step further....4 synth engines under one hood. Prophet x4. With four patches that can be zoned across the key bed or stacked. With a simple 4 rows of Prophet 6/OB6 patch/ bank selection. Keep it away from the menu diving.

I see a niche market here for Sequential name plates.  ;D

Seriously though, I could see the name reappear either on another reimagined classic (Prophet VS?) or on another VCO-based synth. But it's all hard to predict. As Dave once mentioned, he doesn't plan years ahead, so maybe he doesn't even know himself when or how to use the Sequential name next.

I'm pretty certain that we won't see a Prophet-6 REV2. First of all because the Prophet-6 is still relatively new and secondly because of pricing reasons. What a Prophet-6 with twice the voice count would cost can be easily estimated by adding the price of the keyboard and the module versions. It wouldn't get much cheaper, especially since you would have to create a new and bigger chassis, as 61 keys would be mandatory for that many voices.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: chysn on May 03, 2017, 02:50:49 PM
It's all been done. I think the only way to go now is a 10-octave dual manual Prophet 6.

It shall be called the Prophet 12.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on May 03, 2017, 03:11:04 PM
It's all been done. I think the only way to go now is a 10-octave dual manual Prophet 6.

It shall be called the Prophet 12.

(http://www.dodeka.info/musicalinstruments/files/dodeka_keyboard_full.jpg)

 ;D
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on May 03, 2017, 04:32:44 PM
Now I had one of those a few years ago, and I'm sure if the keyboard had looked like that, I would have noticed.  ;D
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: chysn on May 03, 2017, 04:57:52 PM
I'd love to be able to play on that for a little while. Imagine little piano students everywhere learning that the most important interval is the minor third!
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on May 04, 2017, 04:05:37 AM
I still think something that can do more than one split and layer point is the way to go. A simple one patch on the lower half and another on the upper half just isn't that fresh anymore.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: DavidDever on May 04, 2017, 04:35:09 AM
I still think something that can do more than one split and layer point is the way to go. A simple one patch on the lower half and another on the upper half just isn't that fresh anymore.

Perhaps something along these lines, from the Tetra:

Quote
Though the other combos and program banks can be used as a starting point for building new combos, the actual programs used are copies, so any edits made in Combo Mode do not affect the source programs. The converse is also true. Say a combo is created using the program “Arid” and then Arid is subsequently edited in Program Mode. Those changes will not be propagated to the combo. (The edited program can be reassigned to the combo, though.) In other words, Combos contain all parameters for all four voices when saved, and do not rely on referencing or mapping other programs, making organization and maintenance much easier.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on May 04, 2017, 05:05:07 AM
I still think something that can do more than one split and layer point is the way to go. A simple one patch on the lower half and another on the upper half just isn't that fresh anymore.

I think the main reason for why multi-timbrality is not really a priority anymore amongst many musicians is the easy multi-tracking recording practice that goes hand in hand with using a DAW. From that perspective the only type of instrument where multi-timbrality would actually still make sense is the drum or rhythm machine that provides the option to assign a different MIDI-track to each percussive element of a given pattern. And instruments like the Tempest or the Analog Rytm do indeed allow for that. I think the Analog Four and the Vermona Perfourmer do too.

Nevertheless, there has been a sort of paradigm shift. I got my first synth in the 90s where it was considered to be standard to have 16 or at the very least 8 times multi-timbrality. It would have been hard for me to do any hardware MIDI sequencer based recordings without that feature. But the recording environments have changed.

What also needs to be considered is that many regard analog synths as specialized tools that are mostly used for particular sounds only analog synths can provide and not because of their MIDI capabilities. The amount of diversification that goes hand in hand with a more specialized assignment of instruments also runs counter to the idea of the classic workstation or instruments that should be capable of almost anything all by themselves. Today, the DAW took over that role for the most part. In many cases, it's the only center left in studios with lots of instruments that are supposed to take over particular tasks gathered around it.

Finally, CV gained a returning popularity over MIDI. There are even circles in which MIDI has become a dirty word, or in which people don't even know anything about the advantages anymore, or where they are simply not needed.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on May 04, 2017, 05:26:31 AM
Plus the popularity of looping which turns one instrument into an ensemble, although a very repetitious one.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on May 04, 2017, 09:20:43 AM
Since you've come from GS, you may need to enlist in our series of intensive deprogramming sessions in which, after having several differences of opinions with other posters, you'll be physically restrained and made to respond to them without profanity, abuse, or face-in-palm emoticons.  If you survive, then you'll be declared clean and fit to post.

. o O ( Gear Skunks )
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on May 04, 2017, 09:46:21 AM
I still think something that can do more than one split and layer point is the way to go. A simple one patch on the lower half and another on the upper half just isn't that fresh anymore.

I think the main reason for why multi-timbrality is not really a priority anymore amongst many musicians is the easy multi-tracking recording practice that goes hand in hand with using a DAW. From that perspective the only type of instrument where multi-timbrality would actually still make sense is the drum or rhythm machine that provides the option to assign a different MIDI-track to each percussive element of a given pattern. And instruments like the Tempest or the Analog Rytm do indeed allow for that. I think the Analog Four and the Vermona Perfourmer do too.

Nevertheless, there has been a sort of paradigm shift. I got my first synth in the 90s where it was considered to be standard to have 16 or at the very least 8 times multi-timbrality. It would have been hard for me to do any hardware MIDI sequencer based recordings without that feature. But the recording environments have changed.

What also needs to be considered is that many regard analog synths as specialized tools that are mostly used for particular sounds only analog synths can provide and not because of their MIDI capabilities. The amount of diversification that goes hand in hand with a more specialized assignment of instruments also runs counter to the idea of the classic workstation or instruments that should be capable of almost anything all by themselves. Today, the DAW took over that role for the most part. In many cases, it's the only center left in studios with lots of instruments that are supposed to take over particular tasks gathered around it.

Finally, CV gained a returning popularity over MIDI. There are even circles in which MIDI has become a dirty word, or in which people don't even know anything about the advantages anymore, or where they are simply not needed.

I get that but honestly, I think it comes down to laziness. Everything is slowly becoming redundant now in terms of synths. I think Multi-timbrality would spice it up. It might not be "NEEDED" but frankly....guitar amps, actual analog synths, and hardware synths aren't "NEEDED" either. Nor are actual orchestral musicians for composers. Yet they still exist. The point I'm trying to make is, everyone's needs are different and it's good to have options. All I see now is DSI rehashing synths from the past, Moog stagnating, Korg releasing toys, and Waldorf essentially making a similar digital synth in varying bodies with slightly different features. Time to shake things up. There's about as much reason to release a multi timbral analog synth as there is to release a no preset/monophonic, 3 octave analog synth.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on May 04, 2017, 10:14:35 AM
Everything is slowly becoming redundant now in terms of synths. I think Multi-timbrality would spice it up.

General synthesizer design advice: go for a walk in the Eurorack Wilderness (TM).

One extra vote for powerful multi-timbral features in new and existing products.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on May 04, 2017, 10:34:54 AM
I get that but honestly, I think it comes down to laziness. Everything is slowly becoming redundant now in terms of synths. I think Multi-timbrality would spice it up. It might not be "NEEDED" but frankly....guitar amps, actual analog synths, and hardware synths aren't "NEEDED" either. Nor are actual orchestral musicians for composers. Yet they still exist. The point I'm trying to make is, everyone's needs are different and it's good to have options. All I see now is DSI rehashing synths from the past, Moog stagnating, Korg releasing toys, and Waldorf essentially making a similar digital synth in varying bodies with slightly different features. Time to shake things up. There's about as much reason to release a multi timbral analog synth as there is to release a no preset/monophonic, 3 octave analog synth.

I didn't mean to call into question any needs. I was just trying to consider a couple of current trends and developments that do also shape what is being produced and how. Beyond that: Fully agreed on the plurality of needs!
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: proteus-ix on May 04, 2017, 12:06:02 PM
I think DSI would respond: The Prophet 12 is the Evolver Mk II

Do you think this is an accurate assessment?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: proteus-ix on May 04, 2017, 12:10:57 PM
can a Pro 2 really serve in the place of a Pro One type VCA synthesizer?  The former is an excellent instrument, but I don't see it as a front line analog substitute with a warm raw analog tone.  Folks, correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't presently see the Pro 2 in this way.  Otherwise, I would have bought one by now.

Same here.  All of my listening and research has convinced me that I'm just going to have to save up for good condition J-Wire Pro One.  I really like the sound of the Mopho line, the AS-1, the Pro 2... I want them all!

But not one of them will give me the bass sounds I want from a Pro One.  This is not something I can compromise on.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on May 04, 2017, 12:25:01 PM
I think DSI would respond: The Prophet 12 is the Evolver Mk II

Do you think this is an accurate assessment?

I've never played or heard a Prophet 12 in person.  That's my disclaimer.  I've only heard it in YouTube and Soundcloud recordings, but I've listened to all of them over and over again.  My opinion is that the sonic character of the Prophet 12 is nothing like that of the Poly Evolver.  I won't repeat the details because I've posted them many times before, but I'm not at all convinced that a P12 could substitute for a PEK.  If I though otherwise, I'd positively be a P12 owner.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: synthguy on May 05, 2017, 01:42:16 PM
Welcome to the DSI Forum, Synthguy.  Since you've come from GS, you may need to enlist in our series of intensive deprogramming sessions in which, after having several differences of opinions with other posters, you'll be physically restrained and made to respond to them without profanity, abuse, or face-in-palm emoticons.  If you survive, then you'll be declared clean and fit to post.
Woah... okay, when do I face towards Master Dave and how many times do I bow?   :o  ;D

Anyway, I'm a pretty good indicator of what many of the other synth heads want.  If Novation had demoed another monosynth at Superbooth, I doubt many people would be fussed about it like they are for the PEAK.  Or Waldorf, another mono or paraphonic module over the grand unveiling of Quantum at Musikmesse, which has many of us drooling - yes, at possibly more than $3000 US.  And then there's the Relic-6 set to appear this summer at some $3500-ish.  The monosynth market really is awash with synths already, not the least of which is the dreaded Pro2.  Honestly, the mono I'm most interested in is the MatrixBrute, or the Softube Eurorack Modular.

I'm wanting to see Something Big from Dave and associates like I posted before.  While the Prophet REV2 is an outstanding synth, I'm much more chuffed about the Prophet~6 and OB-6.  If Dave is going to peel my eyes away from them, he should, as Sly says, "Be bold."   8)

I would also like to associate myself with the posts by Paul Dither.  On the point of multitimbrality, I could see some advantage to that, perhaps, but mostly because "analog bias" is rather strong on this planet.  I'm of the opinion that a solid VA or softie is plenty interchangeable in a mix with an analog.  I might have something more to say on that in the hopefully near future.  Still, the sex appeal of a multitimbral analog might just push it to the top of the lust list for the majority of synth buyers.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on May 11, 2017, 10:06:33 AM
I do have to say I hate the patch selection on the Rev 2. Scrolling through patches with a knob just doesn't have the same immediacy as the Prophet 6 layout or even the Prophet 12 song list selection. It's going to be really annoying for real time recording not having that with the Rev 2
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Robot Heart on May 11, 2017, 12:22:04 PM
Because we needed to keep costs down, random program access wasn't possible on the Rev2. Fortunately, you can save programs wherever you want directly from the front panel. It does take a little bit of forethought, but in just a few minutes it's easy enough place programs sequentially so you only have to increment or decrement once to get to the next program you need. You can move programs freely without worrying about overwriting any factory sounds since we have both user and factory banks.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: chysn on May 11, 2017, 01:48:44 PM
Voice-activated preset selection would be a groundbreaking feature for a future synth. That way, there's no need for buttons, and no need to remove one's hands from the keyboard to change the sound. Another benefit is that the audience would be able to interactively affect the performance by spontaneously calling out preset names.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on May 11, 2017, 07:51:11 PM
Voice-activated preset selection would be a groundbreaking feature for a future synth. That way, there's no need for buttons, and no need to remove one's hands from the keyboard to change the sound. Another benefit is that the audience would be able to interactively affect the performance by spontaneously calling out preset names.

And after a few rounds of shots the synth blows up when everyone says a different patch name at the same time.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on May 11, 2017, 07:52:38 PM
Because we needed to keep costs down, random program access wasn't possible on the Rev2. Fortunately, you can save programs wherever you want directly from the front panel. It does take a little bit of forethought, but in just a few minutes it's easy enough place programs sequentially so you only have to increment or decrement once to get to the next program you need. You can move programs freely without worrying about overwriting any factory sounds since we have both user and factory banks.

Yeah I can appreciate that. I can't tell from pictures but does the patch selector also have cursor buttons or is it only by a single scrolling knob?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on October 28, 2017, 12:58:45 PM
Shall we resume this thread for the upcoming NAMM?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on October 28, 2017, 01:10:13 PM
Shall we resume this thread for the upcoming NAMM?
Rev2 module.
We might have to resume this thread around Summer NAMM.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on October 28, 2017, 01:59:59 PM
The Rev2 module is already out, so that's not the next new instrument. And Summer NAMM is basically a guitar show anyway.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on October 28, 2017, 02:01:53 PM
But the interview with Dave in Kim Bjørn's Push Turn Move contains a vague hint:

Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on October 28, 2017, 03:03:34 PM
"We are working on a product right now where we have moved things around quit a bit."

- Dave Smith

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I knew it!  Dave's describing a Poly Evolver Keyboard Mk II with the control panel in the front and the keyboard in the back.  I mean, what else could it be?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on October 28, 2017, 03:25:47 PM
I knew it!  Dave's describing a Poly Evolver Keyboard Mk II with the control panel in the front and the keyboard in the back.

To be blinded by the blue light?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on October 28, 2017, 03:36:03 PM
It's meant to give us pencil-headed synthesists a more intimidating image - those red and blue flashing lights right under our chins.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on October 28, 2017, 03:40:07 PM
It's meant to give us pencil-headed synthesists a more intimidating image - blue and red flashing lights right under our chins.

The sunglasses edition.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on October 28, 2017, 05:02:59 PM
The sunglasses edition.
Bringing back the 80s....
https://youtu.be/X2LTL8KgKv8 (https://youtu.be/X2LTL8KgKv8)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on October 28, 2017, 05:03:14 PM
Where we have moved things around quite a bit. Hmm tough to say really.

I hope we see a hybrid but I don't see it happening.

I'd love to see Vector Synthesis brought back but I doubt that'll ever happen again.

I hope we see multitimbrality but I don't see that happening ever.

I'd also love to see the Sequential name on it...but doubtful that will happen.

I just hope it's not a mono synth or something ridiculous like a 20 voice polysynth that's monotimbral.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on October 28, 2017, 05:19:15 PM
I’m sure someone has said this already, but I would love to see a new take on a hardware sampler.  Especially now that solid-state hard drives and decent sized screens are so reasonably priced.
Call it the Prophet S12.
They couldn’t take my money fast enough.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on October 28, 2017, 07:19:02 PM
I’m sure someone has said this already, but I would love to see a new take on a hardware sampler.  Especially now that solid-state hard drives and decent sized screens are so reasonably priced.
  • 3 OSC (selectable sample PCM or P12 style OSCs or maybe User defined wavetables)
  • On screen sample editing and key mapping
  • 12 voice, bi-timbral
  • Generous mod matrix
  • 4 LFOs
  • 3 Envelopes
  • OB6 / P6 style effects section
  • 5 octave Keyboard
Call it the Prophet S12.
They couldn’t take my money fast enough.

I agree a new keyboard sampler would be fantastic but I think I see something like that coming from their Pioneer/DSI collaborations.

Screw this bi timbral stuff for a sampler it should be multitimbral because I want a 10 track sequencer on board.

I also think they should maybe get rid of the Prophet name for this one and call it the Sequential Mimic or Sequential Imitation.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on October 29, 2017, 04:28:59 AM
Things that can be assumed about the next DSI synth, mostly by means of exclusion:

- rearranged interface/layout, which might indicate a different voice architecture or signal flow
- it will neither be white nor feature any faders (Dave emphasized his discontent with both in the Push Turn Move interview)
- it won't be an Evolver MKII if we take Robot Heart at his word
- it'll probably not be multitimbral
- it might not be called "Prophet" (if they find a better name) as Dave indicated at Moogfest, which can - again - signal a different voice architecture
- it won't be entirely digital
- it'll have a keyboard
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on November 05, 2017, 12:57:59 PM
Things that can be assumed about the next DSI synth, mostly by means of exclusion:

- rearranged interface/layout, which might indicate a different voice architecture or signal flow
- it will neither be white nor feature any faders (Dave emphasized his discontent with both in the Push Turn Move interview)
- it won't be an Evolver MKII if we take Robot Heart at his word
- it'll probably not be multitimbral
- it might not be called "Prophet" (if they find a better name) as Dave indicated at Moogfest, which can - again - signal a different voice architecture
- it won't be entirely digital
- it'll have a keyboard

I wonder if we will see an analog vocoder or analog guitar synth machine. It may not even be keyboard related...I doubt that’ll be the case but it still would be interesting to see.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on November 05, 2017, 03:11:46 PM
One thing is certain... DSI needs to do something new next time because they have a new powerful analog synth now (REV2)... they have a powerful hybrid too (P12)... they have two boutique 6voice analogs too, and even a monosynth hybrid... as Dave is only doing BIG synths now (leaving the small ones for Pioneer obviously), he will need to come out with something different or things will start to overlap too much.

One of the most obvious routes and stuff he's missing on the inventory is something that utilize sampling technology in one way or another.... I've seen MANY people in here, come with "+1" when this has been talked about earlier, and I'm sure he's lurking us over the shoulders, if not by his employees if he's too messed up in the cellar "stirring the cauldron" for us all.

My intuition tells me we WILL se such a thing at some point... it is also a niche instrument that has no counterpart on the modern market.... a sampler synth with analog filters... there is no question it will be well received.

There could be other stuff too of course, but a sampling synthesizer made for performance would definitely hold it's own in DSI's range of devices... I certainly hope we will see one at some point.

And I would not be surprised if it is a modern version of his earlier Wavestation which was both popular, but also did crazy things with samples in it's time... it would definitely be the perfect name for a sampling synth, and with Dave's favoring of his earlier synths names, it would be plausible.... but only time will tell :)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on November 05, 2017, 04:20:24 PM
One thing is certain... DSI needs to do something new next time because they have a new powerful analog synth now (REV2)... they have a powerful hybrid too (P12)... they have two boutique 6voice analogs too, and even a monosynth hybrid... as Dave is only doing BIG synths now (leaving the small ones for Pioneer obviously), he will need to come out with something different or things will start to overlap too much.

One of the most obvious routes and stuff he's missing on the inventory is something that utilize sampling technology in one way or another.... I've seen MANY people in here, come with "+1" when this has been talked about earlier, and I'm sure he's lurking us over the shoulders, if not by his employees if he's too messed up in the cellar "stirring the cauldron" for us all.

My intuition tells me we WILL se such a thing at some point... it is also a niche instrument that has no counterpart on the modern market.... a sampler synth with analog filters... there is no question it will be well received.

There could be other stuff too of course, but a sampling synthesizer made for performance would definitely hold it's own in DSI's range of devices... I certainly hope we will see one at some point.

And I would not be surprised if it is a modern version of his earlier Wavestation which was both popular, but also did crazy things with samples in it's time... it would definitely be the perfect name for a sampling synth, and with Dave's favoring of his earlier synths names, it would be plausible.... but only time will tell :)

I hate to say it but I think this Namm is going to sort of be crucial for DSI..especially with Korg releasing a new full sized polyphonic analog and maybe even some other people will as well...they need to do something out of left field and totally fresh..be it a new Evolver (hybrid with both Vector Synthesis and Sampling abilities), a multitimbral analog or a purely digital synth or sampling synth with analog oscillators.

Or it’ll be massively disappointing, uninspiring and redundant like an analog monophonic or something.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on November 05, 2017, 05:30:07 PM
I wonder if we will see an analog vocoder or analog guitar synth machine. It may not even be keyboard related...I doubt that’ll be the case but it still would be interesting to see.

Nah, too niche. ARP already commited suicide with the Avatar - not that DSI is in a similar position as the sinking ship was back then, but still. I also thought guitar sales were declining according to Fender, Gibson, and Guitar Center - not sure whether this is just about bitter old men whining because they can't maximize profit anymore with their outdated business models while they pretend to mourn the absence of stereotypical Rock guitar heroes who were meant to serve as role models for the kids. Either way, I can't really see the need for an analog guitar synth. There are plenty of stomp boxes and processing tools out there including Roger Linn's AdrenaLinn.

A vocoder seems to be even more niche. I mean how often do people use vocoders? There are also dedicated stompboxes for this like the Electro Harmonix V256 for example, plus a couple of synths that provide a vocoder, like the System-8 or the microKORG.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on November 05, 2017, 05:41:03 PM
....guitar sales were declining according to Fender, Gibson, and Guitar Center
Guitar sales for Fender / Gibson are declining because, except for their most expensive guitars, they make poorly constructed products that have largely shunned innovation for years. And even their top of the line models are out-performed by their competitors.
Try comparing a Les Paul to a PRS; or compare a Strat to a Suhr.
Also, the young kids’ Guitar idols these days play Ibanez / PRS / Schecter... not Strats and Les Paul’s.


And +1 for the modern VS / Sampler with analogue filters that’s coming down the pike....
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on November 05, 2017, 05:47:52 PM
And I would not be surprised if it is a modern version of his earlier Wavestation which was both popular, but also did crazy things with samples in it's time... it would definitely be the perfect name for a sampling synth, and with Dave's favoring of his earlier synths names, it would be plausible.... but only time will tell :)

You couldn't sample with a Wavestation, though. It was PCM-based. If one had an actual sampler and a Wavestation A/D (the one with stereo inputs), it was possible to use your own samples as if you would use 'external' PCM waves - something only a few tinkerers did. And this worked only in tandem with a sampler that needed to be MIDI-synced to the WS in order for the samples (here used as pseudo PCM waves) to be triggered in time. The huge plus was of course the wave sequencing and that it's a pad machine galore, the big letdown in comparison to the VS: the digital non-resonant filter.

The big problem with the Wavestation is that it sounds pretty dated these days due to what was used as a basis for the PCM waves, in particular for the later version that also contained all sorts of natural instruments like pianos, flutes, saxophones, and so on. So with regard to the mostly abstract nature of the VS waves, the predecessor actually sounds less dated I'd say - at least less dated than those sounds that are typically associated with ROMplers. The VS also sounds fuller and more powerful due to the analog filter.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on November 05, 2017, 05:50:28 PM
Guitar sales for Fender / Gibson are declining because, except for their most expensive guitars, they make poorly constructed products that have largely shunned innovation for years. And even their top of the line models are out-performed by their competitors.

I know, I know, my comment was meant to be tongue in cheek.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on November 05, 2017, 05:56:19 PM
Guitar sales for Fender / Gibson are declining because, except for their most expensive guitars, they make poorly constructed products that have largely shunned innovation for years. And even their top of the line models are out-performed by their competitors.

I know, I know, my comment was meant to be tongue in cheek.
You’re comment was right on point... I’ve just been bewildered for decades by Fender / Gibson running their businesses into the ground. 
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on November 05, 2017, 06:09:58 PM
Guitar sales for Fender / Gibson are declining because, except for their most expensive guitars, they make poorly constructed products that have largely shunned innovation for years. And even their top of the line models are out-performed by their competitors.

I know, I know, my comment was meant to be tongue in cheek.
You’re comment was right on point... I’ve just been bewildered for decades by Fender / Gibson running their businesses into the ground.

Basically loads of bad business decisions. Here are two nice and well-written pieces by Eric Garland, who spent some time and plenty of articles analyzing the situation of Gibson and Guitar Center:
https://www.ericgarland.co/2016/09/27/gibson-rating-moodys/
https://www.ericgarland.co/2016/01/21/7-things-learned-guitar-center/
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on November 05, 2017, 06:58:53 PM
Gibson is actually $530 Million in debt and currently selling their Memphis plant. The issue is they are overcharging for a name and the quality isn’t meeting the price. Tuning issues, shoddy fret work, for the same price you could get a Tom Anderson or Suhr or B&G and have a guitar that destroys anything Gibson has put out 8n the past ten years.

Also I love the Andrenalinn iii...use it has my main guitar processor. I tend to record direct now but I’m still looking into Carr amps.

Back on topic though, I’m simply saying this will be the Namm where DSI will either do something unique or do something counter productive. It’ll be a damn shame if DSI come out with a Mono Synth or another analog mono timbral Poly Synth And Korg or someone comes out with something unique like multitimbral analog or something. I’d actually cry.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: megamarkd on November 05, 2017, 09:21:40 PM
I'd be over the moon if a Wavestation type synth was released, but with analogue filters and user slots for waves (which can be sampled on board).  I don't think Korg are going to do it, they seem fixed on new analogues.
With regards to envelopes, I'd like someone to do something a little different for once and have one voltage controlled ADSR envelope and one digital ADADSRR (or more) envelope that can be looped. Well actually two of each.  And two joysticks.

The big problem with the Wavestation is that it sounds pretty dated these days due to what was used as a basis for the PCM waves, in particular for the later version that also contained all sorts of natural instruments like pianos, flutes, saxophones, and so on......

The SR seems like it was aimed at the performing musician who wasn't inclined to program wild and crazy patches but wanted access to the incredible pads that the WS could produce, yet at the same time get a hold of some more standard presets that would be more at home on a 01w or an M1 (not that either of those machines weren't able to do some fabulous sounding pads for the time).  All those rather staid sound sources can be dispensed with in favour of more suitable waves for the sound designer.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Gerry Havinga on November 06, 2017, 12:07:52 AM
What about:
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on November 06, 2017, 12:59:03 AM
And I would not be surprised if it is a modern version of his earlier Wavestation which was both popular, but also did crazy things with samples in it's time... it would definitely be the perfect name for a sampling synth, and with Dave's favoring of his earlier synths names, it would be plausible.... but only time will tell :)

You couldn't sample with a Wavestation, though. It was PCM-based. If one had an actual sampler and a Wavestation A/D (the one with stereo inputs), it was possible to use your own samples as if you would use 'external' PCM waves - something only a few tinkerers did. And this worked only in tandem with a sampler that needed to be MIDI-synced to the WS in order for the samples (here used as pseudo PCM waves) to be triggered in time. The huge plus was of course the wave sequencing and that it's a pad machine galore, the big letdown in comparison to the VS: the digital non-resonant filter.

The big problem with the Wavestation is that it sounds pretty dated these days due to what was used as a basis for the PCM waves, in particular for the later version that also contained all sorts of natural instruments like pianos, flutes, saxophones, and so on. So with regard to the mostly abstract nature of the VS waves, the predecessor actually sounds less dated I'd say - at least less dated than those sounds that are typically associated with ROMplers. The VS also sounds fuller and more powerful due to the analog filter.

I was not hinting at a Wavestation clone or even an update for that matter... I was solely thinking about the name itself... Dave also made reuse of the "Prophet" name, but the architecture is nowhere near the Prophet 5 or other Prophets he has made in the past.... I was simply suggesting a sample synth with the name "Wavestation" in it somehow, but probably a very different engine, maybe even based on something new and unique.... if it's just an upped Wavestation without sampling and storage etc. I would not even consider it in any way.... what I lack in synthesis right now is something sample based, where I can use my OWN samples in an intuitive and easily manageable way and with the usual FULL DSI SysEx package :) (I know the samples cannot be stored with the SysEx, but maybe in a flash based way for the samples, like on the Blofeld).

The way I'd like to see the sample storage done is somewhat like this:

One huge GB flash storage medium inside the sampler, just like with the Elektron machines PlusDrive.
No need for SD or other physical medium... use USB connection for transfers between DAW and storage.
Samples stored in a directory fashion so you can manage them comfortably.
DAW friendly filesystem so that you can see the drive from a DAW and copy files to/from the internal sample storage
The preset SysEx should have a pointer to the samples used on the internal drive (the samples file path)

Using this way, the SysEx not having samples included will still be a good compromise... it's basically a "ROM'pler" in a user definable GB large "Flash ROM"... the reason for using filename paths in the SysEx is that if you use indexing instead, every sample on the drive would have to be located in a specific order, which would be very inconvenient when you want to make adjustment to the samples on the drive, or rearrange them on the drive. With a dedicated editor for this, combining this with automatic dumping of samples to a DAW via USB could even provide a very nice and convenient way to save presets on your DAW with the samples included, and would be easily dump'able back to the machine.

The key is, that the storage form must be intuitive and easy to mange, while still providing you with the abillity to use the sampler stand alone and away from the DAW (for live performance situations)... the internal Flash HD solution would be convenient in this matter... the size will accommodate all the needs for a performer playing live, and he would not need to carry small SD card along to load and save from during a gig... everything is inside the sampler in flash, and he can prepare it at home with his DAW using such a dedicated editor.

Just my two cents...


Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on November 06, 2017, 04:34:40 AM
I'd be over the moon if a Wavestation type synth was released, but with analogue filters and user slots for waves (which can be sampled on board).  I don't think Korg are going to do it, they seem fixed on new analogues.

Plus: they released the iWavestation last year.

With regards to envelopes, I'd like someone to do something a little different for once and have one voltage controlled ADSR envelope and one digital ADADSRR (or more) envelope that can be looped. Well actually two of each.

That would be a nice addition.

The SR seems like it was aimed at the performing musician who wasn't inclined to program wild and crazy patches but wanted access to the incredible pads that the WS could produce, yet at the same time get a hold of some more standard presets that would be more at home on a 01w or an M1 (not that either of those machines weren't able to do some fabulous sounding pads for the time).  All those rather staid sound sources can be dispensed with in favour of more suitable waves for the sound designer.

True. I basically had the update from the original to the EX version in mind, which included more ROM waves, particularly rather conventional ones that were often seen as a concession to the ROMpler market.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on November 06, 2017, 04:35:47 AM
I was not hinting at a Wavestation clone or even an update for that matter... I was solely thinking about the name itself...

Gotcha.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on November 06, 2017, 04:40:50 AM
What about:
  • A product that can do sampling the old way (1999's Akai/EMU + analog filters / amps)
  • Something that can do "granular synthesis", bit like these guys: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/844778849/gr-1-granular-synthesizer (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/844778849/gr-1-granular-synthesizer) combined with sampling/waves and analog filters / amps
  • A variation on the existing Prophet 12 with Dolby Surround / Dolby Digital features and extensive "three dimensional" sound modulation / design (artists performing with Buchla instruments often use quadraphonic sound I believe)

Good point with the surround sound. I'd like to see the quadraphonic outputs of the Wavestation being used instead of individual layer A and B outputs, granted one could spatially navigate the four oscillators with a joystick.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on November 06, 2017, 04:41:20 AM
As far as a name goes

Sequential Mimic
or
Sequential Imitator.

I just think it's something as simple as taking the concept of the Korg Microsampler, make it a 5 octave keyboard (even 4 octaves is fine for me personally), add DSI filters on it and include a 8 track Multitrack sequencer on board.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on November 06, 2017, 08:33:39 AM
I'd love to see Vector Synthesis brought back but I doubt that'll ever happen again.

I would love to see vector synthesis reimagined with todays technology. After all the joystick is just bilinear interpolation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilinear_interpolation) and we got way more computer resources available for instruments these days. Reconsidering how waveforms are rendered and allow for morphing wavetables would be great!
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on November 06, 2017, 09:05:56 AM
Something that can do "granular synthesis" [...]

That would be great!
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: BobTheDog on November 06, 2017, 10:42:37 AM
Guitar sales for Fender / Gibson are declining because, except for their most expensive guitars, they make poorly constructed products that have largely shunned innovation for years. And even their top of the line models are out-performed by their competitors.

I know, I know, my comment was meant to be tongue in cheek.
You’re comment was right on point... I’ve just been bewildered for decades by Fender / Gibson running their businesses into the ground.

I don't think Fenders are as bad as Gibsons, you can get a decent MIJ fender for an ok price less than $1500, to get a decent Gibson you are looking at over $4000 dollars as far as I can see, I have a couple of Gibsons over the $4000 mark and compared to nearly any other manufacturer at the same price point they are pretty crap. On one the fret ends were not even rounded off!

Basically if you want a Fender get a Suhr or a G&L and if you want a Gibson get anything else!
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: DavidDever on November 06, 2017, 11:05:10 AM
Basically if you want a Fender get a Suhr or a G&L and if you want a Gibson get anything else!

Yep, agreed - G&L is the best option for Fender loyalists in the modern era; sadly, there is no Gibson equivalent in terms of lineage and quality.

And you're right, newer buyers just don't care to buy a Gibson or Epiphone when there are so many decent alternatives that provide better finish quality and performance for the $/£/€.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on November 06, 2017, 11:06:22 AM
I would love to see vector synthesis reimagined with todays technology. After all the joystick is just bilinear interpolation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilinear_interpolation) and we got way more computer resources available for instruments these days. Reconsidering how waveforms are rendered and allow for morphing wavetables would be great!

Would you suggest a different controller instead of a joystick?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on November 06, 2017, 11:18:31 AM
Would you suggest a different controller instead of a joystick?

These days a 2D/3D touch surface may do the same better and easier with potentially better long term stability.

However, I was primarily thinking about voice architecture. Interpolation of waveforms inside single oscillator will allow for a much more expressive voice compared to the VS approach of interpolation between the output of four oscillators. Also, morphing oscillator waveshapes would allow for PPG like sound/features.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on November 06, 2017, 11:21:45 AM
Would you suggest a different controller instead of a joystick?
Never been a fan of the joystick on a synth... polyphonic aftertouch on the other hand....  8)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on November 06, 2017, 11:33:14 AM
These days a 2D/3D touch surface may do the same better and easier with potentially better long term stability.

Yeah, so maybe a tactile 5D surface that responds to horizontal and vertical slides, pressure, velocity, and release.

However, I was primarily thinking about voice architecture. Interpolation of waveforms inside single oscillator will allow for a much more expressive voice compared to the VS approach of interpolation between the output of four oscillators. Also, morphing oscillator waveshapes would allow for PPG like sound/features.

Waveforms as a modulation destination would indeed be a nice feature.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on November 06, 2017, 04:00:54 PM
Basically if you want a Fender get a Suhr or a G&L and if you want a Gibson get anything else!

Yep, agreed - G&L is the best option for Fender loyalists in the modern era; sadly, there is no Gibson equivalent in terms of lineage and quality.

And you're right, newer buyers just don't care to buy a Gibson or Epiphone when there are so many decent alternatives that provide better finish quality and performance for the $/£/€.

Tom Anderson makes both Strat, tele  and Les Paul style guitars and are easily the best I’ve played.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on November 07, 2017, 08:35:04 AM
The Pro 2 is no more the new Mono Evolver Keyboard than the Prophet 12 is the new Poly Evolver Keyboard.  These are totally different instrument lines, and the mere fact that they're both hybrids means very little.  The Evolver line has not been replaced, and it remains an enthusiastic topic of discussion whether or not DSI will ever actually replace it.

When the Pro 2 first came out, I pressed hard for a module version.  To this day, I still wish it existed, because if it did, I would make a Pro 2 Keyboard-Module pair my definitive longed-for mono synth.  But DSI has repeatedly said they will not produce a module version.  Anyway, if they were going to, it certainly would have happened by now.  They always announce a module version well within a year of presenting a new keyboard synthesizer, and the Pro 2 has been out for several years now.

On the other hand, there are sometimes surprising discrepancies between what Dave Smith says and what Dave Smith does, so no one of us can say for certain.  Personally, I would be thrilled if DSI finally produced a Pro 2 Module, but I'm not expecting it to happen.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on November 07, 2017, 08:44:55 AM
The Pro 2 is no more the new Mono Evolver Keyboard than the Prophet 12 is the new Poly Evolver Keyboard.  These are totally different instrument lines, and the mere fact that they're both hybrids means very little.  The Evolver line has not been replaced, and it remains an enthusiastic topic of discussion whether or not DSI will ever actually replace it.

One might argue, though, that the Pro 2 is closer related to the Evolvers than the Prophet 12 insofar as it has a sequencer that is in itself far more powerful than the one in the Evolvers. The only aspects that make the Pro 2 different from the Evolvers is that it has no DCOs, no stereo input, no ring mod, no dedicated noise source, and no stereo filter, the latter of which would have become quite expensive given the discreet circuit of the Pro 2 filters.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on November 07, 2017, 08:59:10 AM
It's not that there are no similarities between the Pro 2 and the MEK, but that there are outstanding differences.  The lack of stereo oscillators and filters is substantial, but much more is the different set of timbres available from the wave shapes; plus the Evolver's famous digital aliasing.  My point is, the voice of each is very different, even if you can find similarities on their respective spec sheets. 

I've listened to every Pro 2 video over and over again, because I really like the instrument and am still intrigued by it.  In fact, I'm constantly trying to imagine some configuration in which I could work it into my set up.  I could imagine it complimenting a Poly Evolver quite well.  But I've never thought while listening to YouTube, "now there's a replacement for the MEK". 

Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on November 07, 2017, 09:15:06 AM
It's not that there are no similarities between the Pro 2 and the MEK, but that there are outstanding differences.  The lack of stereo oscillators and filters is substantial, but much more is the different set of timbres available from the wave shapes; plus the Evolver's famous digital aliasing.  My point is, the voice of each is very different, even if you can find similarities on their respective spec sheets. 

I've listened to every Pro 2 video over and over again, because I really like the instrument and am still intrigued by it.  But I've never thought, "now there's a replacement for the MEK".

Sure, they both don't sound the same and have their own unique advantages and limitations. I just wanted to point out why the Pro 2 could be considered closer related to the Evolvers than all the other DSI instruments. In the continuum that spans from players to tweakers, the Pro 2 is definitely highest on the tweaker list, maybe followed by the Tempest, and the the Prophet 12.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on November 07, 2017, 09:21:57 AM
What mystifies me about DSI is that they have never reproduced in other instruments the stereo aspects of the Evolvers.  I believe I remember Robot Heart himself saying he'd like to see it return as well, but Dave has chosen not to do so.  It boggles the mind that such an outstanding feature - which can be eliminated from each patch if you didn't want it - should still be missing from all the instruments that followed the Evolvers.  Granted, DSI has at least several times included B outputs, but that's an awkward compromise with the feature. 
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on November 07, 2017, 09:29:54 AM
What mystifies me about DSI is that they have never reproduced in other instruments the stereo aspects of the Evolvers.

A stereo panning stack mode working much like the Evolver (by configuring a pair of voices from layer A) would be far more expressive and offer much better use of hardware resources than a fixed stereo panned voice.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on November 07, 2017, 09:36:15 AM
However you go about a stereo signal path, whether done like in the Evolvers or via a dedicated stack mode, you would still need twice as many filters. The latter would add to the cost more significantly, as there are way more parts involved in the discreet filter designs of the Pro 2, Prophet-6, and OB-6. Those are all not based on the comparatively simple synth on a chip basis the Curtis chips provide.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on November 07, 2017, 09:39:55 AM
I just wanted to point out why the Pro 2 could be considered closer related to the Evolvers than all the other DSI instruments.

That's true; I agree.  I remember - I believe it was when the Poly Evolver Rack was first retired, but then DSI issued another batch of them - that the company released a comment that Evolver fans were "cult-like" in their attachment to the instrument.  That's a hyperbolic way of admitting that the Evolver is unique.  But it still is, all these new instruments later.

I've had a Poly Evolver Keyboard sitting on Craigslist for over a month now.  It's just killing me to keep it there.  One person contacted me the other night and asked what I intended to buy instead, and I told him a Prophet 12.  His response was, "What?  A Poly Evolver is much better than a Prophet 12!"  He had owned both but sold the latter.  it's an opinion that I come across often enough, and it's hard not to share it.

The Prophet 12 is a superb instrument.  I think I've made that clear that it's my sincere opinion.  But the one thing that struck me during the summer was that it's not really a sonically recognizable instrument.  It's range is so vast that, in the end, it seems a bit generic.  It's like trying to know and love a person with multiple-personality disorder!  Very different from this, the Poly Evolver is so recognizable.  I realize some folks might find this to be a disadvantage, but I rather like it.  It comes with some limitations, but I quite like limitations.  So the argument remains that the Poly Evolver needs to be resuscitated.  There still is nothing else like it.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on November 07, 2017, 09:48:08 AM
However you go about a stereo signal path, whether done like in the Evolvers or via a dedicated stack mode, you would still need twice as many filters. The latter would add to the cost more significantly, as there are way more parts involved in the discreet filter designs of the Pro 2, Prophet-6, and OB-6. Those are all not based on the comparatively simple synth on a chip basis the Curtis chips provide.

My issue is much more with the oscillators than with the filter.  And by the way, stereo chorus cannot compare.  Still, I would consider your comments to be a good argument for issuing an instrument again with a simpler filter - as in a 2-pole/4-pole low pass and a non-resonant high pass, nothing more.  If that would significantly keep down the costs, than do it. 

The problem from my perspective is that everything today is about an immense number of features, often at the expense of the overall sound.  Stereo has to do, not with quantity of features, but with quality of sound.

I can appreciate that a two-oscillator instrument may not be the right place for stereo hardwired oscillators (although a stack feature would change this).  But I think a four-oscillator instrument should have it, and is rather impoverished without it.

When I first set up the Prophet 12 in my music room this past summer, my first response to the sound was, "Blah!"  At that point, after one hour, I was ready to return it.  But then I decided to give it the old Evolver stereo treatment.  Only then did I begin to love the sound.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on November 07, 2017, 09:53:54 AM
However you go about a stereo signal path, whether done like in the Evolvers or via a dedicated stack mode, you would still need twice as many filters.

That is exactly the point: giving the users the choice between stereo panned voices or the normal layer modes. And yes, it costs twice the number of voices to stereo pan them. Big surprise! Nothing new under the sun! ;)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on November 07, 2017, 10:00:17 AM
I can appreciate that a two-oscillator instrument may not be the right place for stereo hardwired oscillators (although a stack feature would change this).

There are some interactions between the two parts of each Evolver voice: oscillator sync, common modulations. But overall its still just a pair of voices being played together. Which means that "hardwired" is not completely precise. Or said in another way: there are limits to how many changes are needed to implement stereo panned voices as a layer mode on existing instruments.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on November 07, 2017, 10:00:52 AM
I've had a Poly Evolver Keyboard sitting on Craigslist for over a month now.  It's just killing me to keep it there.  One person contacted me the other night and asked what I intended to buy instead, and I told him a Prophet 12.  His response was, "What?  A Poly Evolver is much better than a Prophet 12!"  He had owned both but sold the latter.  it's an opinion that I come across often enough, and it's hard not to share it.

Oh, I've come across several comments like that. Some even go as far to say that DSI never really released anything new since the Evolvers, only limited or specialized derivatives of it. I wouldn't agree, as this ignores some significant details and design choices. But I guess it can be said that the Evolver served as a sort of template throughout DSI's history if you exclude the VCO-based synths.

The problem from my perspective is that everything today is about an immense number of features, often at the expense of the overall sound.  Stereo has to do, not with quantity of features, but with quality of sound.

I agree on the number of features not being the most important aspect. Ideally, it should be about how clever and imaginative they've been implemented, not about whether you have 2 or 4 LFOs, or 5 or 20 mod slots.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on November 07, 2017, 10:05:38 AM
There are some interactions between the two parts of each Evolver voice: oscillator sync, common modulations. But overall its still just a pair of voices being played together. Which means that "hardwired" is not completely precise. Or said in another way: there are limits to how many changes are needed to implement stereo panned voices as a layer mode on existing instruments.

In using the expression "hardwired," I'm only borrowing the exact same word that Dave Smith has used.  But I'm glad you mentioned it, because it's worth repeating for the sake of others that the Evolvers have a parameter for adjusting the stereo depth, or completely eliminating it so that the instrument has a strictly mono field.  That's one way of improving oscillator beating, which obviously weakens as you increasingly separate the oscillators.  Hence, having stereo makes some sense with a two-oscillator instrument, but much more sense with a four-oscillator. 

My point is, I don't see how you can lose with this feature, since it's entirely adjustable.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on November 07, 2017, 10:21:20 AM
I've had a Poly Evolver Keyboard sitting on Craigslist for over a month now.  It's just killing me to keep it there.  One person contacted me the other night and asked what I intended to buy instead, and I told him a Prophet 12.  His response was, "What?  A Poly Evolver is much better than a Prophet 12!"  He had owned both but sold the latter.  it's an opinion that I come across often enough, and it's hard not to share it.

Oh, I've come across several comments like that. Some even go as far to say that DSI never really released anything new since the Evolvers, only limited or specialized derivatives of it. I wouldn't agree, as this ignores some significant details and design choices. But I guess it can be said that the Evolver served as a sort of template throughout DSI's history if you exclude the VCO-based synths.

My opinion isn't that extreme.  I think the Prophet 12 and Pro 2 are totally distinct instruments from the Evolvers, and that has been my point over and over again.  It's true, even regarding the Prophet '08.  It was extracted - that's a fact - but it still is and sounds significantly different.  But the guy's opinion was that, from his experience, he would prefer an eight-voice Poly Evolver Keyboard to a Prophet 12.  He didn't carry on about it, so he was no fanatic.  I'm only repeating the opinion because I've read it many times.  And now, having had the instruments side-by-side for a full month, I appreciate it.  In fact, the reason I still want a Prophet 12 is that it's so dissimilar to a Poly Evolver Keyboard.  I could conceive of having the two instruments at the same time, but I don't need that much digital potential all at once.

Paul, what I need to do is import you to my music room and lock you in it for one full month of uninterrupted eight-voice Poly Evolver joy.  You can't eat, drink, wash, or communicate with anyone until the month is up, but I will leave you with a bucket.  You might end up appreciating our view a little more than you would expect.   
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on November 07, 2017, 10:23:00 AM
But I'm glad you mentioned it, because it's worth repeating for the sake of others that the Evolvers have a parameter for adjusting the stereo depth, or completely eliminating it so that the instrument has a strictly mono field.

Even when the Evolver have a "mono field" its still playing its pair of voices on each note. So no, I am not missing something here.

Its just that there is a difference between how a pair of hardware voices are panned versus the number of hardware voices being played at the same time. Evolver always plays a pair of hardware voices for each note being played. Prophet 12 and Rev 2 supports playing either one or two hardware voices for each note being played.

So we are talking about two different things here: I talk about hardware voices whereas you talk about sound.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on November 07, 2017, 10:32:40 AM
So we are talking about two different things here: I talk about hardware voices whereas you talk about sound.

I get the "two-voices" part, but the result is my concern.  As a musician, that is admittedly all I'm ever talking about - the sound.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on November 07, 2017, 10:45:37 AM
My opinion isn't that extreme.  I think the Prophet 12 and Pro 2 are totally distinct instruments from the Evolvers, and that has been my point over and over again. [...]
I don't expect folks to understand it.

I am sorry to report that I agree completely with you: The Evolver have something special in its voice. If you ask me its partly the oscillator types and partly its lovely digital dirt.

I think what happened was that Prophet 12 and Pro 2 tried to make better digital oscillators than the noisy digital oscillators on the Evolver. But the sonic character of their digital oscillators have maybe not quite as much impact as on the Evolver. Plus that having no analog oscillators costs some sonic impact too.

In summary: cracking that oscillator nut is very very hard!

And as a musician, that is admittedly all I'm ever talking about.

And as a technical minded person I do take technical considerations into account too. Not at least including potential interesting solutions for future designs. Sound is indeed very important. But maybe there are better and more flexible ways to arrive at a good sound. Hence my stereo panned layer mode suggestion.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on November 07, 2017, 10:53:15 AM
My opinion isn't that extreme.  I think the Prophet 12 and Pro 2 are totally distinct instruments from the Evolvers, and that has been my point over and over again. [...]
I don't expect folks to understand it.

I am sorry to report that I agree completely with you: The Evolver have something special in its voice. If you ask me its partly the oscillator types and partly its lovely digital dirt.

 ;D ;D ;D  And I agree with you about the so-called "digital dirt."  I didn't like it for a long time, but it's grown on me.  It's always sticking its ice-cold nose into my music when I'm not wanting it.  But then, in listening back afterwards, it often seems mysteriously beautiful, like snow or mist.

Regarding our "differences" between an emphasis on the technical or the musical, both are obviously necessary.  You can't have one without the other.  So we really don't have a disagreement.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on November 07, 2017, 12:03:09 PM
My opinion isn't that extreme.  I think the Prophet 12 and Pro 2 are totally distinct instruments from the Evolvers, and that has been my point over and over again.  It's true, even regarding the Prophet '08.  It was extracted - that's a fact - but it still is and sounds significantly different.  But the guy's opinion was that, from his experience, he would prefer an eight-voice Poly Evolver Keyboard to a Prophet 12.  He didn't carry on about it, so he was no fanatic.  I'm only repeating the opinion because I've read it many times.  And now, having had the instruments side-by-side for a full month, I appreciate it.  In fact, the reason I still want a Prophet 12 is that it's so dissimilar to a Poly Evolver Keyboard.  I could conceive of having the two instruments at the same time, but I don't need that much digital potential all at once.

Paul, what I need to do is import you to my music room and lock you in it for one full month of uninterrupted eight-voice Poly Evolver joy.  You can't eat, drink, wash, or communicate with anyone until the month is up, but I will leave you with a bucket.  You might end up appreciating our view a little more than you would expect.

While I would really like to play an 8-voice Evolver one day, I should point out that I'm fully aware of the sonic differences. After all, I used to own a MEK and Desktop Evolver combo, which did sound unique. In fact, if the Pro 2 had never been released, I would have saved for a PER to polychain it to my MEK. But PERs were already hard to come by and also very expensive.

I accept the fact that there is no synth that covers it all (which is a good thing in my book) and overall the Pro 2 was the best choice for me in terms of sound, price, and features. That doesn't mean, though, that I think it does fully replace the Evolver or that it is objectively the better synth. Both have their advantages and strengths. The stereo signal path, front end hybrid structure, and VS waveshapes on the Evolver, and the filters, paraphonic mode, sequencer, and overall interface design improvements on the Pro 2 to name a few. The reason I ultimately made a choice in favor of the Pro 2 has to do with the fact that I like limitations and don't want to be in a position where I end up with too many synths I had to choose.

@Sacred Synthesis and dslsynth:
If you don't mind, I will separate these lasts posts from this thread, since we've gotten a little off track. I suggest to move them over to the next DSI synth discussion, which seems to resonate more with the points that were covered.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on November 07, 2017, 12:21:45 PM
Note: I inserted parts of a discussion that arose from the thread "Additional Feature Request List" in the Pro 2 forum. They seemed to fit better in here, as the past and future (the future's past, the past's future?) of the Evolver has also been discussed in this thread.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on November 07, 2017, 12:44:50 PM
I think synthesizers are sort of in a hampster wheel now. I think musicians are longing for “the next thing” to add sonically to their pallet and it seems we are either getting bombarded with monosynths or mini keys or companies are sort of stagnating creatively. The REV2 as great as it is, is a step backwards. It’s relying on an old synth model and updating it..nothing wrong with that I suppose but I’d much rather see a new Prophet model instead of an update of an old one. Regardless though I understand from a business aspect why they did it and it does sound good at the end of the day.

Another issue though is lack of support for older instruments. If DSI want to consider the P12, P6 and OB6 finished products they should come on this forum and say so as opposed to people asking for features for years. No sequencer midi out from the P6 and OB6? Lack of a pratical transposing Of The sequence (without having to hold down Rec) not only have these requests been put on the backburner but their new Rev2 synth still has these things missing!

We will have to see what Korg is going to do with their new synth but I don’t have high hopes. A monotimbral or bi timbral minilogue with full-size keys may sound cool on paper but it still is not offering anything new.

Moog is non existent in the equation and haven’t done anything majorly creative in a while and likely have nothing planned.

I just think a company like DSI should be ahead of the curve of everyone else and keep offering the next step up...be it different forms of synthesis, hybrids, samplers, or just start to seriously consider at least four part multitimbrality.

Another analog mono? Another mono or bi timbral analog poly...it’s redundancy.

I saw a meme once where a gentleman was showing a girl the Schmidt synthesizer and the speech bubble wrote “You take two oscillators and detune them.” Her response: “Then what?”

I think that’s what a lot of people, including myself are at right now. “Then what?”
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on November 07, 2017, 01:00:15 PM
Moog is non existent in the equation and haven’t done anything majorly creative in a while and likely have nothing planned.
I certainly hope Moog doesn't go the way of the Dodo... but I see them now where Gibson has been:  holding on to a past that has passed. 
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on November 07, 2017, 01:33:24 PM
Moog is non existent in the equation and haven’t done anything majorly creative in a while and likely have nothing planned.
I certainly hope Moog doesn't go the way of the Dodo... but I see them now where Gibson has been:  holding on to a past that has passed.

I 100% agree. Even when Bob Moog was running things they were  constantly coming out with things be it a Moog Vocoder or Polymoog or whatever now in 2017 they are charging $4000-6000 on a monosynth with no memory, sequencer or...well..anything. I’d happily pay $3000-$4000 for a four voice Polyphonic Moog but no way am I going to spend that type of cash on “but it’s vintage” type mentality.

I think a lot of it has to do with whenever they do something different like the Tarus Foot Pedals or Moog Guitar they are commercial failures so they are worried about stepping outside their comfort zone...but you can still experiment within that comfort zone...that’s what they seem to be forgetting.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on November 07, 2017, 01:35:43 PM
I think synthesizers are sort of in a hampster wheel now. I think musicians are longing for “the next thing” to add sonically to their pallet and it seems we are either getting bombarded with monosynths or mini keys or companies are sort of stagnating creatively.

You can't really reinvent the wheel. Synths and different forms of synthesis - mostly the substractive type - are well established by now. But basically there are lots of different things around already and have been for a couple of years, from West Coast to East Coast and everything in between, granular synthesis, sample-based synthesis, FM, AM, additive synthesis, and so on and so forth. Add to that the various and increasing controllers and philosophies. I think the future of electronic music will not be so much about new types of synthesis, but rather the development of new types of interfaces until the ultimate goal is reached in the shape and form of a direct-to-brain interface.

I just think a company like DSI should be ahead of the curve of everyone else and keep offering the next step up...be it different forms of synthesis, hybrids, samplers, or just start to seriously consider at least four part multitimbrality.

I think multitimbrality has become a rather demographic topic. Like someone posted on Muff Wiggler recently:

Quote
it isn't technically hard to do. I think it doesn't happen because

- it wasn't on most vintage analogs
- it requires additional physical interface ($) or menu diving ("eew, menus")
- the industry is under the (mistaken) impression that it isn't necessary because computers have unlimited audio tracks
- younger users are unfamiliar with the concept and therefore aren't asking for it

It has come to my attention as well that with the exception of musicians who where around in the 1980s or 1990s, no one really cares that much about multitimbrality anymore. MIDI even became a four-letter word among lots of young musicians. I've witnessed it often enough. MIDI-wise, almost all standard synths from the 1990s were way more advanced than today's synths. The market has shifted. I'm not saying that this is good or bad. Just an observation.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on November 07, 2017, 01:46:06 PM
Moog is non existent in the equation and haven’t done anything majorly creative in a while and likely have nothing planned.
I certainly hope Moog doesn't go the way of the Dodo... but I see them now where Gibson has been:  holding on to a past that has passed.

I 100% agree. Even when Bob Moog was running things they were  constantly coming out with things be it a Moog Vocoder or Polymoog or whatever now in 2017 they are charging $4000-6000 on a monosynth with no memory, sequencer or...well..anything. I’d happily pay $3000-$4000 for a four voice Polyphonic Moog but no way am I going to spend that type of cash on “but it’s vintage” type mentality.

I think a lot of it has to do with whenever they do something different like the Tarus Foot Pedals or Moog Guitar they are commercial failures so they are worried about stepping outside their comfort zone...but you can still experiment within that comfort zone...that’s what they seem to be forgetting.

Don't forget, though, that Moog's palette is still rather wide. You also need to count in their apps, particularly the Animoog and the Model 15, which make use of state-of-the-art technology. And that they revised the Sub 37 to release the Subsequent 37 was due to customer feedback, that's all. They do super expensive modulars, mid-priced mono synths that don't need to hide in terms of features, did the Minimoog reissue people begged for for decades, have a whole range of effect pedals both for the synth and guitar market, sneaked into the Eurorack format, and do the aforementioned apps. That's quite a product range for such a relatively small company.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on November 07, 2017, 01:47:29 PM
I think synthesizers are sort of in a hampster wheel now. I think musicians are longing for “the next thing” to add sonically to their pallet and it seems we are either getting bombarded with monosynths or mini keys or companies are sort of stagnating creatively.

You can't really reinvent the wheel. Synths and different forms of synthesis - mostly the substractive type - are well established by now. But basically there are lots of different things around already and have been for a couple of years, from West Coast to East Coast and everything in between, granular synthesis, sample-based synthesis, FM, AM, additive synthesis, and so on and so forth. Add to that the various and increasing controllers and philosophies. I think the future of electronic music will not be so much about new types of synthesis, but rather the development of new types of interfaces until the ultimate goal is reached in the shape and form of a direct-to-brain interface.

I just think a company like DSI should be ahead of the curve of everyone else and keep offering the next step up...be it different forms of synthesis, hybrids, samplers, or just start to seriously consider at least four part multitimbrality.

I think multitimbrality has become a rather demographic topic. Like someone posted on Muff Wiggler recently:

Quote
it isn't technically hard to do. I think it doesn't happen because

- it wasn't on most vintage analogs
- it requires additional physical interface ($) or menu diving ("eew, menus")
- the industry is under the (mistaken) impression that it isn't necessary because computers have unlimited audio tracks
- younger users are unfamiliar with the concept and therefore aren't asking for it

It has come to my attention as well that with the exception of musicians who where around in the 1980s or 1990s, no one really cares that much about multitimbrality anymore. MIDI even became a four-letter word among lots of young musicians. I've witnessed it often enough. MIDI-wise, almost all standard synths from the 1990s were way more advanced than today's synths. The market has shifted. I'm not saying that this is good or bad. Just an observation.

When I say different forms of synthesis I mean synthesis other than analog like Vector Synthesis. Not saying you have to reinvent the wheel but just offer something different.

Surely Four Part Multitimbrality isn’t so much to ask for. We aren’t asking for 20 channels like a workstation lol. Just something more than just a single split point. Sure you can do all that with midi and multiple synths or multitracking but that doesn’t mean it’s better persay.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on November 07, 2017, 01:55:09 PM
When I say different forms of synthesis I mean synthesis other than analog like Vector Synthesis. Not saying you have to reinvent the wheel but just offer something different.

I understand that. But there's loads of stuff out there. Not always in the shape and form of a keyboard synth, but it exists, especially in software and Eurorack.

Surely Four Part Multitimbrality isn’t so much to ask for. We aren’t asking for 20 channels like a workstation lol. Just something more than just a single split point. Sure you can do all that with midi and multiple synths or multitracking but that doesn’t mean it’s better persay.

Even non-workstations came with standard 16 part multitimbrality in the 1990s, though. These days, mostly the devices in the beatbox format (Tempest, Analog Four, etc) cater to multitimbral needs.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on November 07, 2017, 01:55:29 PM
Moog is non existent in the equation and haven’t done anything majorly creative in a while and likely have nothing planned.
I certainly hope Moog doesn't go the way of the Dodo... but I see them now where Gibson has been:  holding on to a past that has passed.

I 100% agree. Even when Bob Moog was running things they were  constantly coming out with things be it a Moog Vocoder or Polymoog or whatever now in 2017 they are charging $4000-6000 on a monosynth with no memory, sequencer or...well..anything. I’d happily pay $3000-$4000 for a four voice Polyphonic Moog but no way am I going to spend that type of cash on “but it’s vintage” type mentality.

I think a lot of it has to do with whenever they do something different like the Tarus Foot Pedals or Moog Guitar they are commercial failures so they are worried about stepping outside their comfort zone...but you can still experiment within that comfort zone...that’s what they seem to be forgetting.

Don't forget, though, that Moog's palette is still rather wide. You also need to count in their apps, particularly the Animoog and the Model 15, which make use of state-of-the-art technology. And that they revised the Sub 37 to release the Subsequent 37 was due to customer feedback, that's all. They do super expensive modulars, mid-priced mono synths that don't need to hide in terms of features, did the Minimoog reissue people begged for for decades, have a whole range of effect pedals both for the synth and guitar market, sneaked into the Eurorack format, and do the aforementioned apps. That's quite a product range for such a relatively small company.

But essentially it’s the same idea behind each of those things: A monophonic analog synth. Just in different sizes and shapes but they all produce a similar outcome.

For the amount of research and development and manufacturing they put into simply adding CV capabilities to an already existing synth they could have come out with a whole new product which included those requested features. Which is exactly what shouldn’t have happened with the REV2 a lot of the requests about the sequencer on the P6 and OB6 weren’t updated or addressed in a new product so now now only have those requests not been addressed on the older instruments but now they have to be addressed with the new one and from my understanding still havent.

Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on November 07, 2017, 02:01:11 PM
When I say different forms of synthesis I mean synthesis other than analog like Vector Synthesis. Not saying you have to reinvent the wheel but just offer something different.

I understand that. But there's loads of stuff out there. Not always in the shape and form of a keyboard synth, but it exists, especially in software and Eurorack.

Surely Four Part Multitimbrality isn’t so much to ask for. We aren’t asking for 20 channels like a workstation lol. Just something more than just a single split point. Sure you can do all that with midi and multiple synths or multitracking but that doesn’t mean it’s better persay.

Even non-workstations came with standard 16 part multitimbrality in the 1990s, though. These days, mostly the devices in the beatbox format (Tempest, Analog Four, etc) cater to multitimbral needs.

Sure those things exist in software and modular stuff but why not keyboards? Surely if Behringer And Korg And others can do analog for less than $1000 Yamaha could have come out with a new DX that wasn’t the size of a toy. In fact if Yamaha can do an authentic FM engine in a reface size instrument there I should no reason they can’t come out with one in a 61 key full sized keyboard.

These are obviously questions we can’t answer but it is still a good question.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on November 07, 2017, 02:13:01 PM
But essentially it’s the same idea behind each of those things: A monophonic analog synth. Just in different sizes and shapes but they all produce a similar outcome.

The Animoog is pretty much its own thing and - just like the Model 15 app - it can also be played polyphonically. The rest is just what they do and as long as there's a demand for it, they will continue to do so. After all, it's a business and they also like the concept of a single voice synth. Maybe they come out with something different again in the app sphere for reasons of cost and flexibility. One thing they don't really need to do is develop an analog poly synth. Because what would you get realistically? Something like the Prophet-6 with a Moog filter for about the same price or $1000 more. In terms of technology and already available options, I could think of more exciting things to be honest.

For the amount of research and development and manufacturing they put into simply adding CV capabilities to an already existing synth they could have come out with a whole new product which included those requested features.

They redesigned the signal path of the Sub 37. Everything was based on customer demand and suggestions. Again: It's a business and this is also how they showed their appreciation towards the user base. They are also a small company with in-house production. Things take a bit longer under these circumstances. And who knows what they've been working on behind the scenes?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on November 07, 2017, 02:25:34 PM
Sure those things exist in software and modular stuff but why not keyboards?

Because it's less risky to do more esoteric or experimental stuff in those areas. It's niche products for a niche market. You can't expect a company releasing a >$3,000 synth that blows big time in the end because its concept is too unfamiliar to most musicians. Synths like the DX7 or the D-50 were a success because they contained outstanding presets (for their time), not really because most musicians embraced a new way of programming as it turned out. It was also the birth of the preset library market for that very reason. Sure, there are also always a couple of nerds who dig deeper than that, but I doubt that they were the masses that paid Yamaha's and Roland's bills.

Surely if Behringer And Korg And others can do analog for less than $1000 Yamaha could have come out with a new DX that wasn’t the size of a toy. In fact if Yamaha can do an authentic FM engine in a reface size instrument there I should no reason they can’t come out with one in a 61 key full sized keyboard.

It's called the Montage, which was surely marketed in the wrong way when it comes to what you're asking for, but it definitely contains a fully-fledged FM engine. The Korg Kronos does too.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on November 07, 2017, 02:43:47 PM
Actually I was thinking in terms of Moog is their own version of the Oberheim Four Voice but with four Slim Phatty’s or Sub 37 engines that can operate individually from each other and each have presets. Sure you can do that with midi and polychaining but it at least would offer something different than the DSI instruments and be something fresh from Moog.

In terms of the Yamaha Montage I am talking about a dedicated FM synth not a synth that has samples, fm and other things going on. Just two DX reface engines under one hood. Ironically I think that would actually sell better than the reface and Montage.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: timbo74 on November 08, 2017, 05:06:12 AM
Still advocating for a sampling keyboard here! (Prophet 2000/ V2018 ect?)

Sampling front end and VCF's and VCA's.

Plenty of front panel knobs for the main performance control.

8 voice/4 part multi is ok here but the more specs the better of course. (Price notwithstanding!)

Sequencer of some descript on board.

Keeping a keen eye for the future!
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: DavidDever on November 08, 2017, 05:57:33 AM
Still advocating for a sampling keyboard here! (Prophet 2000/ V2018 ect?)

Sampling front end and VCF's and VCA's.

Plenty of front panel knobs for the main performance control.

8 voice/4 part multi is ok here but the more specs the better of course. (Price notwithstanding!)

Sequencer of some descript on board.

Keeping a keen eye for the future!

12/16 mono or 6/8 stereo voices would be a good place to start.

The Prophet 2000 hard-panned its voices to either side, which worked well if you could dedicate a pair of channels with adjustable stereo width, but reduced voice count to four when running stereo samples.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on November 08, 2017, 09:22:14 AM
I'd say for the DSI Sampler

Name: Sequential Mimic
10 Voice Polyphony
10 Part Multitimbrality
10 Track Sequencer
61 keys w/ aftertouch and velocity.
Samples can be uploaded via USB.
Prophet 6 style VCFs and VCAs.
Samples can be set as one shot, gated, and looped.
On board effects as well.

Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: timbo74 on November 08, 2017, 04:07:01 PM
Interesting information DavidDever and LoboLives!

Would it muddy the waters for the "possible" DSI sampler to have an analogue carrier input jack and in the onboard effects section to have a vocoder effector so one of the samples can be used as the modulator for a vocoder effect?

Possible option for any analogue inputs could be to have 2 mic/line inputs which could be used similar to the Korg MicroKorg/R3 ?

The inputs could be switched to other duties if not using that particular effect.

Just a thought!

Tim
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on November 09, 2017, 05:22:16 AM
If I should ever want a multi timbral powerhouse from Dave, I'd opt for something like this:

32 voices (all should be playable in any configuration, from 32 individual to one 32 voice polyphonic preset)

The voice architecture should be a "One Voice to Rule them All!" ... the architecture taken from the Evolver, where you have two analog oscillators (taken from the REV2 to keep cost down), and two digital (taken from the P12). Add the option to include sample oscillators on the two digital oscillators... Keep it mono instead of the Evolvers stereo configuration to further keep cost down (and polyphony up!).

Now D/A convert the digital oscillators, and mix them with the analog ones, and throw them thru a multimode VCF (HP/LP/BP etc.) and into a VCA...

In parallel, put the usual FX section of the REV2/P6/OB6 (this is on all voices of course, not per voice) ... this may need more than one FX engine... probably more like 4 to 8, and all working with sends from all the voices.

Summa Summarum, I'd like to see a "super voice" containing all that Dave has made in analog and digital, with added sampling functionality... the "One Voice to Rule Them All!" ... then this "voice" could go into different instruments... maybe even a multi timbral one that you can put as many "voice boards" into that you want... say, 32 slots, and you can have anything from one to 32 "super voice cards" in it, and use them one by itself, or in groups for polyphony. This would give people a chance at buying them without breaking their wallet.

He could name it "Sawron!" ... or something...
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: megamarkd on November 11, 2017, 09:57:30 PM
I'd say for the DSI Sampler

Name: Sequential Mimic
10 Voice Polyphony
10 Part Multitimbrality
10 Track Sequencer
61 keys w/ aftertouch and velocity.
Samples can be uploaded via USB.
Prophet 6 style VCFs and VCAs.
Samples can be set as one shot, gated, and looped.
On board effects as well.

Samples should be able to be reversed as they play with a button.  Forward/backward loop play.  Loop in release/free play release.  Attack/a-b loop/release.  Loop a-b point/loop length modulation.

USB uploading, yes, but also SD card facilities.

As for the name, "Rogue Trooper" after the 2000AD strip by the same name that follows the adventures of a clone soldier.  Or maybe "Big Dave, the hardest man in Manchester".  I know Dave Smith isn't from Manchester, but it too good a name to not use for anything that needs a name.
Or considering my thoughts on the need to rejuvenate synth naming conventions with inspiration from b-grade 50's and 60's horror and sci-fi films, how about The Doppleganger?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on November 11, 2017, 10:14:38 PM
I'd say for the DSI Sampler

Name: Sequential Mimic
10 Voice Polyphony
10 Part Multitimbrality
10 Track Sequencer
61 keys w/ aftertouch and velocity.
Samples can be uploaded via USB.
Prophet 6 style VCFs and VCAs.
Samples can be set as one shot, gated, and looped.
On board effects as well.

Samples should be able to be reversed as they play with a button.  Forward/backward loop play.  Loop in release/free play release.  Attack/a-b loop/release.  Loop a-b point/loop length modulation.

USB uploading, yes, but also SD card facilities.

As for the name, "Rogue Trooper" after the 2000AD strip by the same name that follows the adventures of a clone soldier.  Or maybe "Big Dave, the hardest man in Manchester".  I know Dave Smith isn't from Manchester, but it too good a name to not use for anything that needs a name.
Or considering my thoughts on the need to rejuvenate synth naming conventions with inspiration from b-grade 50's and 60's horror and sci-fi films, how about The Doppleganger?

Or “The Thing” since it’s an imitation of other synths. ;)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: chysn on November 12, 2017, 04:35:28 AM
Or considering my thoughts on the need to rejuvenate synth naming conventions with inspiration from b-grade 50's and 60's horror and sci-fi films, how about The Doppleganger?

Yes!!
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on November 12, 2017, 04:49:23 AM
I don't really give a **** what it's going to be called, just make me than darn sampler-synthesizer with VCF and VCA! :P
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on November 12, 2017, 09:46:55 PM
To be honest...I actually don’t have a good feeling for this Namm in regards to DSI...I think with us all asking for a sampler or hybrid or digital VS synth...all we are going to get is a VCO analog mono synth or a four voice lower priced poly to replace the Mophox4.

I just think a lot of people are pumped for this Namm because Korg’s new poly synth, Roger possibly bringing out Linn Drum II, Yamaha possibly making a lower priced version of the Montage but I have a gut feeling it’s all going to be very underwhelming.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on November 13, 2017, 05:46:44 AM
It seems to me - putting aside the wished for VS-PEK instrument - that the only synthesizer lacking from the DSI line up is that newly-designed VCO analog mono synth you don't want.  Otherwise, they've basically covered all the bases in their corner.  Personally, it's what I'd most like to see.  Would the Pro 2 make it redundant?  Not if it was really robust on the analog side, had a deep voice architecture, was full-sized, and was made into a module as well.  Then it could surpass the Subsequent 37 and the Matrixbrute.  But I'm not holding my breath.  I no longer try to anticipate what Dave Smith will do next.  This was just idle wishful thinking.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on November 13, 2017, 08:28:53 AM
I think they still lack a sampling synthesizer in their line-up to be honest... it's not enough with a VS like, they do not have anything sample based as a performance synthesizer at all...
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: chysn on November 13, 2017, 09:23:15 AM
It seems to me - putting aside the wished for VS-PEK instrument - that the only synthesizer lacking from the DSI line up is that newly-designed VCO analog mono synth you don't want.  Otherwise, they've basically covered all the bases in their corner.  Personally, it's what I'd most like to see.  Would the Pro 2 make it redundant?  Not if it was really robust on the analog side, had a deep voice architecture, was full-sized, and was made into a module as well.  Then it could surpass the Subsequent 37 and the Matrixbrute.  But I'm not holding my breath.  I no longer try to anticipate what Dave Smith will do next.  This was just idle wishful thinking.

This used to be what I wanted to see more than anything. Today, I'm mostly convinced that the mono synth market is too crowded, and I'm on Team I'd Like to See a Sampler.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on November 13, 2017, 09:28:38 AM
It just seems as if Dave does not want a little-bit-of-everything type of company.  The whole DSI line is closely related, and I would expect that it's deliberate.  Even the Prophet 12 and Prophet 6 bear enough resemblance.  Dave's approach/philosophy is the cause, and I would expect to see this continue.  But I will not be surprised if that VS-PEK instrument does actually appear. 

As for a sampling synthesizer, wouldn't that be a drastic turn?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on November 13, 2017, 09:48:58 AM
This used to be what I wanted to see more than anything. Today, I'm mostly convinced that the mono synth market is too crowded, and I'm on the "I'd like to see a sampler" bandwagon.

When I go searching for an analog mono synth, the market certainly doesn't seem crowded to me.  It seems, rather, to be littered with frustratingly small instruments, from the Subsequent, to the Odyssey, to the MS-20, to the Analog Solutions instruments, to countless similar modules, and so on.  This is where the redundancy is, and it is indeed redundancy.  Even the Minimoog is on its way out.  That leaves the Matrixbrute, which does not appeal to many of us due to its sound, appearance, and that lousy third oscillator.  The only thing I like about it is the length of its keyboard.

The exception here is the Vermona '14, which is presently on the top of my mono synth list.  An impressive instrument with a superb build quality.  If one of my instruments sells, I'll be quite tempted to buy one.  But of course, only 222 units are being made.

The rare Vermona aside, what's still lacking in the market is a powerful full-sized analog mono synth - preferably VCO based - with a high-quality keyboard and costing about $2,500.  In light of the sound of the Prophet-6 and the capabilities of the Pro 2, DSI could best fill that spot, and I wish they would.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on November 13, 2017, 10:18:25 AM
It just seems as if Dave does not want a little-bit-of-everything type of company.  The whole DSI line is closely related, and I would expect that it's deliberate.  Even the Prophet 12 and Prophet 6 bear enough resemblance.  Dave's approach/philosophy is the cause, and I would expect to see this continue.  But I will not be surprised if that VS-PEK instrument does actually appear. 

As for a sampling synthesizer, wouldn't that be a drastic turn?

Depends on how it is implemented I'd say... if you think of a sampler like with the older E-MU Emulator series, then yes... certainly, but exactly what you are mentioning is what I think it could be... something that is a resemblance of things he already have at hand... Dave is using the same tricks as many other bigger companies now; he reuse his code and ideers in new products, enhancing on them... so yes, that is a typical thing of Dave's "evolving instruments" so to speak...

So what I see possible is a growing on something already there... like the P12 for example, but with the added option of using sample oscillators.... I'm not talking about something with a huge multisample-setup engine and loads of voices... that is why I call it a "sampling synthesizer"... most samplers are better for studio use, but what I could see Dave do, is make the sampling synthesizer more suitable for live performance (which seems to be his goal with all his creations lately).

If he created a really good sample oscillator playback routine, that would allow samples to be stretched all over the keyboard without the need for multisamples, just like in the Roland V-Synth machines, the need for multisample setups could also be completely removed...

I can only talk for myself of course, but what I would want of a sampler, is not to recreate realistic acoustic instruments by using multisamples, but rather the advantage of using sampled textures as oscillators, because it does allow for some REALLY FAST creation of huge pads for Ambient music (and other genres), without the need to sit and tweak on normal oscillators for hours on end.... you could simply just choose a sample texture, and start molding that with filters, other sample oscillators ... maybe even with audio rate modulation in the Mod Matrix... I mean... such a way of using samples would be extremely cool for my usage, and I think others would find it useful too.

Put in the V-Synth COSM effect for sideband filters, and you can turn almost ANY sample into a lush PAD sound...

I really hope for such a synth... and if I have not seen anything before I've saved up enough, I'll probably go for a V-Synth GT instead, simply to get a sample synthesizer.... just really would like to see something like that with VCF and VCA :)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on November 13, 2017, 11:12:09 AM
This used to be what I wanted to see more than anything. Today, I'm mostly convinced that the mono synth market is too crowded, and I'm on the "I'd like to see a sampler" bandwagon.

When I go searching for an analog mono synth, the market certainly doesn't seem crowded to me.  It seems, rather, to be littered with frustratingly small instruments, from the Subsequent, to the Odyssey, to the MS-20, to the Analog Solutions instruments, to countless similar modules, and so on.  This is where the redundancy is, and it is indeed redundancy.  Even the Minimoog is on its way out.  That leaves the Matrixbrute, which does not appeal to many of us due to its sound, appearance, and that lousy third oscillator.  The only thing I like about it is the length of its keyboard.

The exception here is the Vermona '14, which is presently on the top of my mono synth list.  An impressive instrument with a superb build quality.  If one of my instruments sells, I'll be quite tempted to buy one.  But of course, only 222 units are being made.

The rare Vermona aside, what's still lacking in the market is a powerful full-sized analog mono synth - preferably VCO based - with a high-quality keyboard and costing about $2,500.  In light of the sound of the Prophet-6 and the capabilities of the Pro 2, DSI could best fill that spot, and I wish they would.

You can always get the Full size Odyssey.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on November 13, 2017, 11:19:26 AM
By "small," I didn't mean having smaller keys; I meant a regular-sized three-octave keyboard two-oscillator instrument.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on November 13, 2017, 11:19:54 AM
I don't usually care about polyphony that much but I just think a basic mono synth really will be a step backwards for DSI. They need to keep evolving not take a major step back and I don't think you are ever going to see a mono synth with more than 3 octaves going forward. So unless you want to settle for the MatrixBrute (Which actually does sound fairly decent to my ears) I would strongly suggest that you may have to get used to an external controller.

I wouldn't mind what I suggested before: the Pro 4.

Basically DSI's interpretation of the Oberheim Four Voice: Four AS-1 Mono synths under one hood. Each has it's own patch memory, own sequence and can be configured in numerous ways (Splits, layers, sequencer only, sequencer transpose, keyboard on/off etc)-however I would personally prefer if Moog did such a synth instead.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on November 13, 2017, 11:33:14 AM
'Moving forward' and 'going backwards' are vague expressions, but they imply that the goal is innovation, that a great instrument is a ground-breaking one full of thrilling new ideas. 

My approach is to want, not something sensationally ground-breaking, but simply something excellent, a musical instrument that excels in providing an abundance of already-familiar fundamental features, the basics of synthesis in large quantities.  I don't need something new, new, new.  New compositions provide the new, new, new element.  I'm perfectly content with synthesis as it exists.  I only need more of it in each instrument. 

I'm hoping for a mono synth that fits this description, but I'm realistic enough to expect to have to somewhat create it myself. 

As for instruments that already exist, the Pro 2 comes the closest.  But I'd much rather it have a classic VCO sound, and even be a bit larger in physical size.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on November 13, 2017, 11:50:43 AM
'Moving forward' and 'going backwards' are vague expressions, but they imply that the goal is innovation, that a great instrument is a ground-breaking one full of thrilling new ideas.  My approach is to want, not something sensationally ground-breaking, but simply something excellent, a musical instrument that excels in providing an abundance of already-familiar fundamental features, the basics of synthesis in large quantities.  It's very hard to find such instruments. 

I'm hoping for a mono synth that fits this description, but I'm realistic enough to expect to have to somewhat create it myself.

Going backwards would be like Moog making the Sub 37 and then making the Model D. So essentially you make a synth that has more features and follow it up with a synth that has none. It would be like Dave following up the REV2 with a mono version...it be counter productive because you can always just stack the REV2 in unison mode anyway. Same with the P6 and OB6. So a whole new synth that is basically just a dedicated "mode" or "feature" on a currently existing one would be pointless.

Moving forwards would be "What's the next step?" I.E. "We got the Sequential name...what else can we do with it?" "We've done bi-timbral...let's figure out a way to add two more engines under that hood without any major menu diving." "The Evolvers are getting popular on the forum...how can we upgrade them? More polyphony? More effects? Possible sampling on one of the digital oscillators?"

You can always go modular. Get a Doepfer A-100 pre assembled system and hook it to one of their 88 key controllers. Actually I tried one myself and I was blown away by the sound. May pick one up eventually.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on November 13, 2017, 11:56:12 AM
Right; that's what I figured.  But there is use in having a full-time dedicated mono synth - maybe not for you, but for some of us.  An instrument that is always set aside for melody purposes and appropriately effected is not the same as a Rev2 in mono mode.  It's a matter of having an ensemble of instruments, rather than one instrument that does it all.  And I'd rather not have to buy a poly synth, only to use it as a mono synth.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on November 13, 2017, 12:09:55 PM
'Moving forward' and 'going backwards' are vague expressions, but they imply that the goal is innovation, that a great instrument is a ground-breaking one full of thrilling new ideas.  My approach is to want, not something sensationally ground-breaking, but simply something excellent, a musical instrument that excels in providing an abundance of already-familiar fundamental features, the basics of synthesis in large quantities.  It's very hard to find such instruments. 

I'm hoping for a mono synth that fits this description, but I'm realistic enough to expect to have to somewhat create it myself.

Going backwards would be like Moog making the Sub 37 and then making the Model D. So essentially you make a synth that has more features and follow it up with a synth that has none. It would be like Dave following up the REV2 with a mono version...it be counter productive because you can always just stack the REV2 in unison mode anyway. Same with the P6 and OB6. So a whole new synth that is basically just a dedicated "mode" or "feature" on a currently existing one would be pointless.

Moving forwards would be "What's the next step?" I.E. "We got the Sequential name...what else can we do with it?" "We've done bi-timbral...let's figure out a way to add two more engines under that hood without any major menu diving." "The Evolvers are getting popular on the forum...how can we upgrade them? More polyphony? More effects? Possible sampling on one of the digital oscillators?"

You can always go modular. Get a Doepfer A-100 pre assembled system and hook it to one of their 88 key controllers. Actually I tried one myself and I was blown away by the sound. May pick one up eventually.

Creating a one voice version of the REV2 would be a step back for those who has the doe to get a REV2 yes... but for people who cannot afford that, a 1voice REV2 would definitely be a step forward, since the only comparable device for them would be one of the earlier 1-voice versions of the P08... people has a tendency to always see things from their own point of view... what might be a step back for you, might be a step forward for someone else :)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on November 13, 2017, 12:20:18 PM
That is true I am looking at it from my point of view.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on November 13, 2017, 01:46:47 PM
Well said, Razmo.

I'm not opposed to any of the instruments proposed - be it a sampling or a hybrid synthesizer.  I'm just making the point that a large mono synth such as I've described is not to be found.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on November 13, 2017, 02:39:31 PM
Besides the VS/PEK/Wavestation and sampler ideas above I would say that a duophonic synthesizer is better than a mono if layers and stereo stack mode are present complete with external inputs. But there are many ideas out there and what to expect next is a well described problem (https://youtu.be/Nf_Y4MbUCLY?t=33s).

The only thing I am curious about is the design direction the new instrument takes. Are we going to see a new entry to the line of more or less reissued instruments? Or will something new happen? I am very happy DSI did P6/OB-6 and it was great to see P08 receiving an upgrade. But how about something new next time?

In any case I can wait until NAMM to see what it ends up being.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on November 13, 2017, 04:34:43 PM
I think DSI nailed the perfect analog poly synth design in the P6 and OB6. I love having no menu and just having everything on the front panel. I really hope we see a continuation of that myself.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on November 14, 2017, 01:21:32 AM
I think DSI nailed the perfect analog poly synth design in the P6 and OB6. I love having no menu and just having everything on the front panel. I really hope we see a continuation of that myself.

I agree on that one... it's actually one of the reasons I'm choosing DSI again now... because I do not need an editor on a computer to edit the sounds easily... That is also why a Sampler synth in my piont of view, should not be as complicated as for example the old (but darn good!) E-MU Ultra samplers... if you need to have multisampled stuff and the depth of these, you will surely have menu diving and worse.... that is why I'd like the sampling part to be simple... just add them as oscillators as in the Blofeld, just with a whole lot easier loading/saving of samples, and if possible; realtime timestretching... and if really really good; add formant control like on the V-Synth as well... then we're talking some darn cool sampler synth! :D
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on November 14, 2017, 04:10:48 AM
I think DSI nailed the perfect analog poly synth design in the P6 and OB6. I love having no menu and just having everything on the front panel. I really hope we see a continuation of that myself.

I agree on that one... it's actually one of the reasons I'm choosing DSI again now...

Honestly for a bi-timbral analog synth I would have like to have seen something like two Prophet 6 or OB6 style modules side by side with a Split/Stack button in the middle. That would have been perfect.

if DSI were to ever do another Evolver I really hope we see those patch selection buttons of the P6/OB6 on it as well. Maybe just colored blue.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Gerry Havinga on November 14, 2017, 08:42:49 AM
Perhaps guessing what Dave and his team are up to next is a near impossible task. I just looked at the DSI's site about page and Dave did produce a sampler once:
Quote
1985 – PROPHET-2000
The Prophet 2000 was a 12-bit sampling keyboard. It featured 512k of sample memory, and selectable sampling rates of 16, 32, and 42kHz. External storage was provided via floppy disk. The Prophet 2000 featured MIDI, 8 voice polyphony, and an arpeggiator. Its analog filters and VCAs gave the Prophet 2000 a warmth that differentiated from other samplers of the period.

Given that DSI is looking at what they find interesting to build (and I do really love that approach). Doing repeat exercises of old products is probably not much fun. Obviously there has to be some commercial element and as writing (good quality) software is a very time consuming process, DSI will probably build further "on top" of their existing software library.

Investigating the new cheap CPU architectures, FPGAs and all that, I can imagine DSI is looking at something completely different that can be build with powerful but very low cost hardware. I just read a very interesting article about Dolby Atmos which describes the incredible quality of REM's  "Automatic for the people", completely re-mixed and mastered for a three dimensional sound field. I can imagine there is something fascinating about building a synthesizer that is capable of generating sound that can be positioned in a three dimensional space......

Aaahh we can dream ...
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on November 14, 2017, 10:19:33 AM
Perhaps guessing what Dave and his team are up to next is a near impossible task.

I have seen DSI staff saying that with their current team things are a lot more dynamic than in the early DSI days. So expect the unexpected. I am happy with that. Makes NAMM expectations much more fun!
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on November 14, 2017, 10:43:13 AM
We have all but convinced ourselves that a new Poly Evolver of sorts is coming.  Someone here should inform DSI, in case they haven't heard! 

I only hope we're right.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on November 14, 2017, 11:01:10 AM
I only hope we're right.

I have come to a point where I simply wait to see what they will announce at NAMM. I think there is good consensus on what the community want most. But what actually happens is a good question that we will know at NAMM. So I will simply wait and see how the new machine(s) look. Its much easier that way! ;)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on November 14, 2017, 11:49:30 AM
But there is a good point in debating what MIGHT come, or what we would LIKE to come... because if we did not, DSI would never know... would they? ;)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on November 14, 2017, 11:52:56 AM
Agree, lets not forget to dream about what would be great to see. Good point indeed.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: chysn on November 14, 2017, 12:44:12 PM
I just read a very interesting article about Dolby Atmos which describes the incredible quality of REM's  "Automatic for the people", completely re-mixed and mastered for a three dimensional sound field. I can imagine there is something fascinating about building a synthesizer that is capable of generating sound that can be positioned in a three dimensional space......

Thanks for that info! Automatic for the People just might be my favorite album ever. Atmos seems like it's designed for the cinema, so I'm not sure how I'd hear it at home. But, you know, I'd totally pay twelve bucks to sit in a dark movie theater and listen to Automatic for the People.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on November 14, 2017, 03:30:14 PM
But there is a good point in debating what MIGHT come, or what we would LIKE to come... because if we did not, DSI would never know... would they? ;)

Ahhh Emulator II style sampler with VCFs and VCAs.
New digital synthesizer with Vector Synthesis.
Paraphonic analog string machine that also doubles as a vocoder and guitar synth with dedicated inputs.
A dual manual double Prophet 6.
Four part multitimbral analog synth.
Stand alone analog sequencer with the ability to ratchet steps, chain sequences into songs and save sequences.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Gerry Havinga on November 15, 2017, 12:29:35 AM
I just read a very interesting article about Dolby Atmos which describes the incredible quality of REM's  "Automatic for the people", completely re-mixed and mastered for a three dimensional sound field. I can imagine there is something fascinating about building a synthesizer that is capable of generating sound that can be positioned in a three dimensional space......

Thanks for that info! Automatic for the People just might be my favorite album ever. Atmos seems like it's designed for the cinema, so I'm not sure how I'd hear it at home. But, you know, I'd totally pay twelve bucks to sit in a dark movie theater and listen to Automatic for the People.

No, it is not designed just for cinema. Atmos is designed to give sound mixers/masterers and creators more control over placing of instruments / events in a 3D sound field (spatial audio). I understand it introduces the concept of "object oriented"  sound tracks. Where embedded with the audio information there is meta data that describes how the sound should be processed and placed in a 3D space. This ensures that audio processors in effect units and amplifiers have exact information where each track/instrument should be placed. Then it solely depends on the sophistication of the speaker setup how well this is translated to real life.

Apparently the modern versions of the XBox console can process Dolby Atmos and do some trickery so you can experience it over (normal) stereo headphones. I looked up the original Ars Technica article: https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/11/spatial-audio-is-the-most-exciting-thing-to-happen-to-pop-music-since-stereo/ (https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/11/spatial-audio-is-the-most-exciting-thing-to-happen-to-pop-music-since-stereo/)

Recently I got hold of a second hand Evolver desktop . It is very interesting how the pairs of oscillators are assigned to each stereo channel and how you can switch from mono to small and wide field stereo imaging. I don't think it should be very difficult, more like a natural progression, for DSI to design an Evolver / P12 kind of synthesizer that uses Atmos technology and together with a compatible processor / amplifier create soundscapes where each oscillator can be positioned in exact locations in a (virtual) 3D room.

Apparently because of the 3D space Dolby Atmos provides, in stead of the "2D" stereo spacing, the mixing of instruments can become easier as you can position them spatially in three dimensions so they are not in each other's way.

Just writing this down gets me excited and very interested about an instrument like this. How about it DSI: next synthesizer with Dolby Atmos capabilities (as well as stereo of course)?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on November 15, 2017, 12:32:06 AM
But there is a good point in debating what MIGHT come, or what we would LIKE to come... because if we did not, DSI would never know... would they? ;)

Ahhh Emulator II style sampler with VCFs and VCAs.
New digital synthesizer with Vector Synthesis.
Paraphonic analog string machine that also doubles as a vocoder and guitar synth with dedicated inputs.
A dual manual double Prophet 6.
Four part multitimbral analog synth.
Stand alone analog sequencer with the ability to ratchet steps, chain sequences into songs and save sequences.

Lets hope that Santadave believe you have been a good boy this year :D
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on November 22, 2017, 08:04:22 AM
This would be my proposal for something VS-like.

(http://forum.davesmithinstruments.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=125.0;attach=1428;image)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on November 22, 2017, 08:35:43 AM
This would be my proposal for something VS-like.
Cool mock-up there Paul.  I hope DSI licensed it from you.  :)
The only thing I would "change" is, instead of a "stereo filter", I would have 2 x SVFs that could be run in series, parallel or stereo... After all, a stereo filter is really two mono filters panned left and right anyway, right?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on November 22, 2017, 09:00:20 AM
Cool mock-up there Paul.  I hope DSI licensed it from you.  :)

Haha, thanks!

The only thing I would "change" is, instead of a "stereo filter", I would have 2 x SVFs that could be run in series, parallel or stereo... After all, a stereo filter is really two mono filters panned left and right anyway, right?

I was trying to think in realistic terms of how features have been incorporated and varied in the past, hence no repetition of the Pro 2 filter section for example, but a modulatable filter slope control that could work in steps (1-4 pole modes) or continuously. The thought was to have the signal path organized like in the Evolver, where the Pan Spread (called Output Pan there) controls how far the left and right channels are spread, from a hard-panned signal to a centered signal.

Instead of providing individual stereo outputs per layer, though, I thought that for a vector synth there should be a quad output. That's how the WS was set up. In that case, the stereo operation of the filter would of course have to be overridden.

2 x SVFs in series, parallel or stereo sounds tasty as well, though.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on November 22, 2017, 10:07:29 AM
This would be my proposal for something VS-like.

Brings a tear to my eye. Would like to have a joy stick on that baby too as well as random patch selection like the OB6/Prophet 6 selection buttons...but in blue!
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on November 22, 2017, 10:10:24 AM
This would be my proposal for something VS-like.

Brings a tear to my eye. Would like to have a joy stick on that baby too as well as random patch selection like the OB6/Prophet 6 selection buttons...but in blue!
I kinda prefer the 2-dimensional touch pad (instead of a joystick)... especially if it is touch sensitive -- I suppose that would make it 3 dimensional.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on November 22, 2017, 10:13:10 AM
This would be my proposal for something VS-like.

It looks pretty cool. Love the somewhat evolved blues!
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on November 22, 2017, 10:53:12 AM
Brings a tear to my eye. Would like to have a joy stick on that baby too as well as random patch selection like the OB6/Prophet 6 selection buttons...but in blue!

The P-6/OB-6 style buttons were actually in the original draft, but they didn't quite fit the overall aesthetics and would have taken away too much space. Oh, and a joystick was too.

There is a random patch generator button though.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on November 22, 2017, 10:58:47 AM
I kinda prefer the 2-dimensional touch pad (instead of a joystick)... especially if it is touch sensitive -- I suppose that would make it 3 dimensional.

You are correct in that assumption. It would basically be a pressure sensitive XY pad roughly the size of a ROLI lightpad. Pressure sensitivity because you could simultaneously control modulation amounts while moving around or morphing through the waveforms. For standard vector stick behaviour there would be the latch button.

In stereo mode one could also pan between left and right by moving the finger horizontally or between layered oscillators by moving vertically.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on November 22, 2017, 10:59:59 AM
This would be my proposal for something VS-like.

Brings a tear to my eye. Would like to have a joy stick on that baby too as well as random patch selection like the OB6/Prophet 6 selection buttons...but in blue!
I kinda prefer the 2-dimensional touch pad (instead of a joystick)... especially if it is touch sensitive -- I suppose that would make it 3 dimensional.

Actually thinking about it now. Take the concept of the touch strip that was on the P12, Pro2 and Tempest and make an entire large pad with "Latch" options. That would be pretty damn cool.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on November 22, 2017, 11:00:54 AM
I kinda prefer the 2-dimensional touch pad (instead of a joystick)... especially if it is touch sensitive -- I suppose that would make it 3 dimensional.

You are correct in that assumption. It would basically be a pressure sensitive XY pad roughly the size of a ROLI lightpad. Pressure sensitivity because you could simultaneously control modulation amounts while moving around or morphing through the waveforms. For standard vector stick behaviour there would be the latch button.

In stereo mode one could also pan between left and right by moving the finger horizontally or between layered oscillators by moving vertically.

Sort of like Roger Linn's Linnstrument but built in a DSI synth! WOW!
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on November 22, 2017, 11:02:20 AM
Brings a tear to my eye. Would like to have a joy stick on that baby too as well as random patch selection like the OB6/Prophet 6 selection buttons...but in blue!

The P-6/OB-6 style buttons were actually in the original draft, but it didn't quite fit the overall aesthetics and would have taken away too much space. Oh, and a joystick was too.

There is a random patch generator button though.

Yeah it seems like it's much more of a P12 type design...still...I wonder if there could be a way to combine the two designs so that the patch buttons are included. Perhaps take the OLED screen and move it to the side or a corner of the synth (sort of like the screen on the Tempest)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on November 22, 2017, 11:03:07 AM
It looks pretty cool. Love the somewhat evolved blues!

Haha!
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on November 22, 2017, 11:03:27 AM
I kinda prefer the 2-dimensional touch pad (instead of a joystick)... especially if it is touch sensitive -- I suppose that would make it 3 dimensional.

You are correct in that assumption. It would basically be a pressure sensitive XY pad roughly the size of a ROLI lightpad. Pressure sensitivity because you could simultaneously control modulation amounts while moving around or morphing through the waveforms. For standard vector stick behaviour there would be the latch button.

In stereo mode one could also pan between left and right by moving the finger horizontally or between layered oscillators by moving vertically.

Sort of like Roger Linn's Linnstrument but built in a DSI synth! WOW!
Paul and Lobo... If either of you boys can solder, we can go into business!


Put that 3-dimensional pad in the mod matrix so it can control any 3 parameters (as opposed to always being a 4 waveform mixer).
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on November 22, 2017, 11:08:12 AM
Paul and Lobo... If either of you boys can solder, we can go into business!

Haha! I can solder, but I'm not sure how quick I am at soldering SMD components.

Put that 3-dimensional pad in the mod matrix so it can control any 3 parameters (as opposed to always being a 4 waveform mixer).

That was the idea. To embed it in the mod matrix like the touch stripes of the Pro 2 for example.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on November 22, 2017, 11:17:17 AM
I better leave this thread. I'd rather not set myself up for disappointment in January.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on November 22, 2017, 11:18:53 AM
I better leave this thread. I'd rather not set myself up for disappointment in January.
Ha... I was thinking the same thing.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on November 22, 2017, 11:35:26 AM
Sort of like Roger Linn's Linnstrument but built in a DSI synth! WOW!

As a front panel 3D controller: genius!

As for having a LinnStrument controller instead of a keyboard: far better with USB/MIDI hosting possibility so that any class compliant USB/MIDI device can be connected directly to the synth. Better convenience and lower latency than the standard 3 kb/sec slowspeed MIDI connection. Of cause MPE will have to be supported.

I better leave this thread. I'd rather not set myself up for disappointment in January.

Better suggestion: stay and dream on. Later on: help start a company to realize that dream! ;)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on November 22, 2017, 11:40:01 AM
Put that 3-dimensional pad in the mod matrix so it can control any 3 parameters (as opposed to always being a 4 waveform mixer).

It can quite likely already be done on existing synths using a 3D controller such as KMI QuNeo and possibly a little mapping software between controller and synth. Voice would then have to handle the received controllers values. Of cause that feature is limited to what the voice can express.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on November 22, 2017, 12:09:08 PM
Actually thinking about it now. Take the concept of the touch strip that was on the P12, Pro2 and Tempest and make an entire large pad with "Latch" options. That would be pretty damn cool.

Do you mean like this?

Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: megamarkd on November 22, 2017, 09:53:15 PM
I kinda prefer the 2-dimensional touch pad (instead of a joystick)... especially if it is touch sensitive -- I suppose that would make it 3 dimensional.

You are correct in that assumption. It would basically be a pressure sensitive XY pad roughly the size of a ROLI lightpad. Pressure sensitivity because you could simultaneously control modulation amounts while moving around or morphing through the waveforms. For standard vector stick behaviour there would be the latch button.

In stereo mode one could also pan between left and right by moving the finger horizontally or between layered oscillators by moving vertically.

Sort of like Roger Linn's Linnstrument but built in a DSI synth! WOW!
Paul and Lobo... If either of you boys can solder, we can go into business!


Put that 3-dimensional pad in the mod matrix so it can control any 3 parameters (as opposed to always being a 4 waveform mixer).

Deja Vu a different forum 2001.....
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on November 24, 2017, 05:51:15 AM
Just had someone on the GS forum remark that 2018 would be the 40th anniversary of the Prophet 5. Is that true?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on November 24, 2017, 06:44:21 AM
Just had someone on the GS forum remark that 2018 would be the 40th anniversary of the Prophet 5. Is that true?

Work on the Prophet-5 started in April 1977 and the first and only prototype was presented at the NAMM show in January 1978. So yes, at the time of next Winter NAMM it'll be 40 years since the public first met the Prophet-5.

Don't forget that the Prophet-6 was already a reimagined Prophet-5, though, so I wouldn't expect anything that's closer to the Prophet-5 than the Prophet-6 already is.

Dave also mentioned at the last Moogfest that although the instrument they're currently working on carries the working title "Prophet something" (I guess the additional description would reveal what it's about), they're ideally shooting for a different name once it's ready to be announced.

So given these two points, I don't think that the 40th anniversary of the Prophet-5 is anything to go by. We'd rather see a successor to the Prophet 12 or something else.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on November 24, 2017, 08:14:26 AM
Just had someone on the GS forum remark that 2018 would be the 40th anniversary of the Prophet 5. Is that true?

Work on the Prophet-5 started in April 1977 and the first and only prototype was presented at the NAMM show in January 1978. So yes, at the time of next Winter NAMM it'll be 40 years since the public first met the Prophet-5.

Don't forget that the Prophet-6 was already a reimagined Prophet-5, though, so I wouldn't expect anything that's closer to the Prophet-5 than the Prophet-6 already is.

Dave also mentioned at the last Moogfest that although the instrument they're currently working on carries the working title "Prophet something" (I guess the additional description would reveal what it's about), they're ideally shooting for a different name once it's ready to be announced.

So given these two points, I don't think that the 40th anniversary of the Prophet-5 is anything to go by. We'd rather see a successor to the Prophet 12 or something else.

I'm still hoping for the Sequential Waves ;)

While a dual Prophet 6 would be cool I'd like to get those VS waves back
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on January 05, 2018, 06:33:53 PM
So with DSI not being present at NAMM, what do you guys think the odds are that they will still announce a new product at about the same time?  I mean, even though they won’t be at NAMM, they still need to be competitive... thoughts?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: chysn on January 05, 2018, 08:41:29 PM
So with DSI not being present at NAMM, what do you guys think the odds are that they will still announce a new product at about the same time?  I mean, even though they won’t be at NAMM, they still need to be competitive... thoughts?

I'll put the odds at 5 to 2. They release at least one product a year (with the exception of 2003, which was right after the Evolver came out), and the Prophet 6 and OB6 were both announced in January. Since the Rev2 didn't involve a wholly new architecture, and the OB6 didn't involve a wholly new architecture, the clock for a wholly new architecture stands at three years (with the Prophet 6 in January 2015). I think something new is probably imminent.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 06, 2018, 03:28:07 AM
So with DSI not being present at NAMM, what do you guys think the odds are that they will still announce a new product at about the same time?  I mean, even though they won’t be at NAMM, they still need to be competitive... thoughts?

My initial thought was that they might simply announce a new product later this year (spring, summer, or fall). So as of now I don't expect a new synth to be announced in roughly three weeks. The final version of the Tempest, the Mopho x4, and most of the desktop versions of their synths haven't been announced in time for NAMM either, so this would not be an entirely new phenomenon. Either way, we'll know more in three weeks, i.e. whether DSI just skip the upcoming NAMM show because they don't think NAMM is necessary for an announcement or because they are simply not ready yet.

Since the Rev2 didn't involve a wholly new architecture, and the OB6 didn't involve a wholly new architecture, the clock for a wholly new architecture stands at three years (with the Prophet 6 in January 2015). I think something new is probably imminent.

That's what I think too. And given that every synth since the announcement of the Prophet-6 happened to be analog, I rather expect a hybrid design this time around. Whether it'll be a follow-up to the Prophet 12 or an instrument that is meant to co-exist with the Prophet 12 remains to be seen. But that's roughly the direction I would assume.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 06, 2018, 11:11:09 AM
During an interview with Pioneer Dave said that while other synth technology like FM and stuff is neat it’s too complicated compared to analog.

I think that the only things left for DSI to do in the analog realm is multitimbrality. From my understanding Dave isn’t interested in that and to be honest....it would be redundant to the rest of their catalog doing yet another analog poly synth. Nah, time to brings those VS waves back and finally add some sampling to the DSI catalog. DSI have done enough in the analog realm.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on January 06, 2018, 11:14:39 AM
During an interview with Pioneer Dave said that while other synth technology like FM and stuff is neat it’s too complicated compared to analog.

I think that the only things left for DSI to do in the analog realm is multitimbrality. From my understanding Dave isn’t interested in that and to be honest....it would be redundant to the rest of their catalog doing yet another analog poly synth. Nah, time to brings those VS waves back and finally add some sampling to the DSI catalog. DSI have done enough in the analog realm.
That is certainly the logical next step... and I am saving a spot in my synth cabinet for just such a creature... :)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 06, 2018, 11:32:25 AM
During an interview with Pioneer Dave said that while other synth technology like FM and stuff is neat it’s too complicated compared to analog.

Well, classic FM synthesis à la DX7 is not that complicated and one doesn't have to mythologize it. The biggest problem FM has are the sounds that are being associated with it and the fact that they're perceived as horribly dated and cheesy, which makes it more of a marketing problem. The latter is of course the same case for classic analog sounds, but for some reason the majority of synth users think that those aged more gracefully.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on January 06, 2018, 01:11:28 PM
I think that the only things left for DSI to do in the analog realm is multitimbrality.

Oh there are plenty of other options in analog synthesizer design for the type of voices DSI does. For instance would an instrument featuring the new discrete oscillators and filters combined with plenty of modulation features be something the current line of instruments does not offer.

Nah, time to brings those VS waves back and finally add some sampling to the DSI catalog. DSI have done enough in the analog realm.

There are plenty of options in hybrid voice design including a new VS, a sampler with analog filters and something inspired by the Evolver featuring both analog and digital oscillators. Not to mention that a little phase modulation would be lovely. Not to mention a new drum machine inspired by the earlier BookChik and LinnDrumm II design ideas.

I am curious about the direction they take on the voice architecture front this time around. Given that competition starts to hit the analog polysynth market for real their best move may be to make a new voice that really sets them apart from the rest of the competition. So I would not be terribly surprised if we do not see a new instrument until NAMM 2019.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 06, 2018, 02:56:45 PM
Hybrids aside, I'm confident DSI will continue to produce analog synthesizers.  It's what they do, it's more or less all they do, and it's going to remain the case.  Of course, that allows room for little surprises.  Perhaps one of these days they'll get around to offering digital effects units.  But as far as synthesizers go, I think it's obvious what the DSI future holds.

What DSI has not yet done is produce an immense all-analog polyphonic synthesizer.  That's just one future possibility, and it's still my primary hope.  I mean the sort of instrument that could persuade some of us to sell all or most of our other instruments. 
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 06, 2018, 05:09:32 PM
Actually I was wrong about the Tempest not being announced at a NAMM show. In fact, it was always announced at Winter NAMM shows in all of its three different incarnations.

To the best of my knowledge, this is an overview over the DSI release history since 2002:

Spring 2002: Announcement of the Evolver; October 29: shipping announcement; first presented at Winter NAMM 2003
December 6, 2003: Announcement of the Poly Evolver Rack, first presented at Winter NAMM 2004; May 10, 2004: shipping announcement
December 23/24, 2004: Announcement of the Poly Evolver Keyboard, first presented at Winter NAMM 2005; May 10, 2005: shipping announcement
January 11, 2006: Announcement of the Mono Evolver Keyboard, first presented at Winter NAMM 2006; May 1: shipping announcement
NAMM 2007: First announcement of what would become the Tempest, here under the name BoomChik
August 20, 2007: Announcement of the Prophet ’08 and the Prophet ’08 Special Edition
August 31, 2007: Shipping announcement for the Prophet ’08 Special Edition (300 limited units)
September 10, 2007: Announcement that Prophet ’08s are shipping in greater numbers
Winter NAMM 2008: Showing prototypes of the LinnDrum II Analog (formerly known as BoomChick; 2nd step in the Tempest development) and the Prophet ’08 Module
March 18, 2008: Shipping announcement for the Prophet ’08 Module
May 16, 2008: Announcement of DSI expression pedals, immediate availability
June 1, 2008: Poly Evolver Rack discontinued
September 24, 2008: Announcement of the Mopho, immediate shipping
May 20, 2009: Announcement of the Prophet ’08 Potentiometer Edition
June 2, 2009: Availability of PE conversion kits for the Prophet ’08 announced
August 5, 2009: Announcement of the Tetra, immediate shipping
November 5, 2009: Announcement of the Poly Evolver Keyboard Potentiometer Edition
Winter NAMM 2010: Showing prototypes of the Mopho Keyboard
March 15, 2010: Announcement of the Mopho Keyboard and the return of the Poly Evolver Rack
May 5, 2010: Shipping announcement for the Mopho Keyboard
October 1, 2010: Announcement of the Mono Evolver Keyboard Potentiometer Edition
December 2, 2010: Poly Evolver Rack discontinued
Winter NAMM 2011: Announcement of the Tempest
September 6, 2011: Shipping announcement for the Tempest
August 1, 2012: Announcement of the Mopho x4
Fall 2012: Mono Evolver Keyboard PE and DSI expression pedals discontinued
January 24, 2013/Winter NAMM 2013: Announcement of the Prophet 12; June 25: shipping announcement
October 15, 2013: Announcement of the Mopho SE, shipping later that month
December 18, 2013: Announcement of the Prophet 12 Module, first presented at Winter NAMM 2014
Spring 2014: Poly Evolver Keyboard PE discontinued
June 19, 2014: Announcement of the Pro 2, first presented at Summer NAMM 2014
August 11, 2014: Announcement of the DSM01 Curtis Filter Module, immediate shipping
August 12, 2014: Shipping announcement for the Pro 2
January 12, 2015: Announcement of the DSM02 Character Module, immediate shipping
January 22, 2015/Winter NAMM 2015: announcement of the Prophet-6; May 29: shipping announcement
October 14, 2015: Mopho, Mopho Keyboard, Mopho Keyboard SE, Tetra, and Evolver discontinued
October 22, 2015: Announcement of the Prophet-6 Module; November 25: shipping announcement
January 21, 2016/Winter NAMM 2016: Announcement of the OB-6; March 3: shipping announcement
April 10, 2016: Announcement of the TORAIZ SP-16
June 23, 2016: Announcement of the OB-6 Module; September 9: shipping announcement
October 13, 2016: Announcement of the DSM03 Feedback Module, immediate shipping
January 19, 2017/Winter NAMM 2017: Announcement of the Prophet Rev2 and the TORAIZ AS-1
May 18, 2017: Shipping announcement for the Prophet Rev2
August 29, 2017: Announcement of the Prophet Rev2 Module; October 25: shipping announcement

Strictly speaking, only the following instruments have been announced or presented for the very first time at NAMM shows: BoomChick, LinnDrum II Analog, Prophet ’08 Module, Mopho Keyboard, Tempest, Prophet 12, Prophet-6, OB-6, Prophet Rev2, and TORAIZ AS-1. That's clearly the minority of all the products DSI have released over the years. So there's no reason for panic if there won't be an announcement in about three weeks from now, as this has rather been the exception to the rule.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 06, 2018, 09:45:27 PM
I also wonder if we will continue to see any more collaborations from DSI and Pioneer. A few people at the local music store here said they think Pioneer has backtracked on the production side of things as the SP-16 and AS-1 haven't sold well. Surprising really, both are fantastic.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 06, 2018, 11:21:08 PM
What DSI has not yet done is produce an immense all-analog polyphonic synthesizer.  That's just one future possibility, and it's still my primary hope.  I mean the sort of instrument that could persuade some of us to sell all or most of our other instruments.

The exact reason why you won't see one is because of your last point. A 20 Voice, VCO based, Multitimbral analog polysynth would make their other products redundant...nah...best to have a bit more variety but I'm not sure what else they can do in the analog realm really that wouldn't be redundant to their other products.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 07, 2018, 04:58:40 AM
I also wonder if we will continue to see any more collaborations from DSI and Pioneer. A few people at the local music store here said they think Pioneer has backtracked on the production side of things as the SP-16 and AS-1 haven't sold well. Surprising really, both are fantastic.

This is just by hearsay though. But as Pioneer is targeting its products to the DJ market, I can't see that much room for further collaborations, certainly not in the standard synthesizer format (keyboard or desktop module), which is what DSI mainly do.

A 20 Voice, VCO based, Multitimbral analog polysynth would make their other products redundant...

Unnecessary overlaps aside, your example would also end up being incredibly expensive.

I'm not sure what else they can do in the analog realm really that wouldn't be redundant to their other products.

With the Rev2, the Prophet-6, the OB-6, and the Mopho x4 that field seems indeed very well covered by now. That's why I would rather assume that a hybrid voice architecture of whatever kind seems more likely for the next step. That could entail a successor to the Prophet 12, a return to some of the Evolver principles (e.g. hybrid front end) in an updated format, or something entirely different.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on January 07, 2018, 07:56:50 AM
Entirely different.... like in "Sampling Synthesizer"... in my opinion, this would be the most wise logical step right now because, the market is ready for one, and if DSI comes with one soon to compete with the Quantum, they may take the lead on this.... or maybe it's just my wishful thinking :)

I'm having a hard time believing it will be a better version of the P12, as it is still rather new with nothing much to compete with it except for maybe the PEAK and coming Quantum.

besides this, the only synthesis types DSI has not covered is physical modelling, but that technology seems to be put to the grave, as no one makes this synthesis type anymore really...

Actually... if DSI wanted to do an upgrade worthy machine these days, I find that the Tempest would be a much better option... that machine is in my opinion only "half cooked", and could need some dire improvements, and much less obscure interface...

Maybe an all analog drummachine, in the Sequential name, with hands on usage?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 07, 2018, 08:19:19 AM
What DSI has not yet done is produce an immense all-analog polyphonic synthesizer.  That's just one future possibility, and it's still my primary hope.  I mean the sort of instrument that could persuade some of us to sell all or most of our other instruments.

The exact reason why you won't see one is because of your last point. A 20 Voice, VCO based, Multitimbral analog polysynth would make their other products redundant...nah...best to have a bit more variety but I'm not sure what else they can do in the analog realm really that wouldn't be redundant to their other products.

That's not at all the instrument I had in mind.  Twenty voices of VCO's?  The price would equal a down payment for a small house!  I'd be happy with twelve voices, bi-timbrality, and even DCO's.  But I'd love to have a synthesizer with five or six oscillators.  I'm trying to keep four as the bare minimum for all my instruments.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: megamarkd on January 07, 2018, 06:57:37 PM
8 voice poly synth with 3 osc's per voice.  Two Osc's being user samples of anything from a single cycle to full pop song length sample in whatever sampling and bit rate, plus an analogue osc with the regular waveforms available with also pwm.
After that, whatever is fine as long as if there is a filter involved, it's multimode and per voice (which I'm sure is a reasonable request)...hey there's an idea, different filter modes for each voice.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 07, 2018, 08:44:23 PM
Entirely different.... like in "Sampling Synthesizer"... in my opinion, this would be the most wise logical step right now because, the market is ready for one, and if DSI comes with one soon to compete with the Quantum, they may take the lead on this.... or maybe it's just my wishful thinking :)

I'm having a hard time believing it will be a better version of the P12, as it is still rather new with nothing much to compete with it except for maybe the PEAK and coming Quantum.

besides this, the only synthesis types DSI has not covered is physical modelling, but that technology seems to be put to the grave, as no one makes this synthesis type anymore really...

Actually... if DSI wanted to do an upgrade worthy machine these days, I find that the Tempest would be a much better option... that machine is in my opinion only "half cooked", and could need some dire improvements, and much less obscure interface...

Maybe an all analog drummachine, in the Sequential name, with hands on usage?

Shame not many do physical modelling anymore. I love the sounds it can get.

As far as a DSI drum machine...I think believe it or not, the Pioneer SP-16 is pretty much the upgrade of the Tempest. Not so much on the actual analog synthesis of course but it does have a lot of the same features, plus a P6 VCF, sampling, multi channel midi out. It also has some nice onboard drum sounds. Not sure if they feature the LM1 or Linn Drum samples but you can sample them into the machine as well as anything else. With the new firmware upgrade, I’m actually considering it as my main sequencer/controller.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: timbo74 on January 26, 2018, 03:15:44 AM
As far as a DSI drum machine...I think believe it or not, the Pioneer SP-16 is pretty much the upgrade of the Tempest. Not so much on the actual analog synthesis of course but it does have a lot of the same features, plus a P6 VCF, sampling, multi channel midi out. It also has some nice onboard drum sounds. Not sure if they feature the LM1 or Linn Drum samples but you can sample them into the machine as well as anything else. With the new firmware upgrade, I’m actually considering it as my main sequencer/controller.
[/quote]




I've been having a look on the SP16/Pioneer website recently and the latest firmware mentions that the sample time has increased to 64 seconds and DSI P6 filters are now recorded per scene which are nice updates.

There are a few changes and improvements in addition to the above which makes it more appealing for my setup.

Tempest among my other gear is slaved to Engine in my setup and  think the Pioneer Sp16 might be a bit of duplication of sequencing duties so hence the wait for the possibility of the DSI Sampler.

As I use the  Engine midi/cv gate sequencer already, I just want to hang in a bit longer to see if DSI do an 8 voice keyboard/module sampler with VCF/VCA's per voice otherwise the SP16 looks like a possible sampling solution to retire the Korg Microsampler.



Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: timbo74 on January 26, 2018, 03:58:59 AM
8 voice poly synth with 3 osc's per voice.  Two Osc's being user samples of anything from a single cycle to full pop song length sample in whatever sampling and bit rate, plus an analogue osc with the regular waveforms available with also pwm.
After that, whatever is fine as long as if there is a filter involved, it's multimode and per voice (which I'm sure is a reasonable request)...hey there's an idea, different filter modes for each voice.





That's a great idea!

The filter setup similar, if not the same as the Pro 2 with both SEM and P6 filters with a sampling front end.






Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 26, 2018, 04:40:30 AM
What DSI has not yet done is produce an immense all-analog polyphonic synthesizer.  That's just one future possibility, and it's still my primary hope.  I mean the sort of instrument that could persuade some of us to sell all or most of our other instruments.

The exact reason why you won't see one is because of your last point. A 20 Voice, VCO based, Multitimbral analog polysynth would make their other products redundant...nah...best to have a bit more variety but I'm not sure what else they can do in the analog realm really that wouldn't be redundant to their other products.

That's not at all the instrument I had in mind.  Twenty voices of VCO's?  The price would equal a down payment for a small house!  I'd be happy with twelve voices, bi-timbrality, and even DCO's.  But I'd love to have a synthesizer with five or six oscillators.  I'm trying to keep four as the bare minimum for all my instruments.

Would that simply just be the REV2 then with less voices?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 26, 2018, 04:43:03 AM
I'd love to see both Dave's collaborate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkXqdpy5uSk

You can dial in the amount of aliasing which is what we were talking about before Sacred Synthesis.

Raz gets his sampler.

It seems unbelievable to have a voltage controlled sampler instead of midi sampler...but here it is. Now if Dave could talk to Dave I'm sure they could come up with the Sequential Imitator or the Sequential Doppelganger sampler synth. 
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on January 26, 2018, 06:50:40 AM
I'd love to see both Dave's collaborate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkXqdpy5uSk

You can dial in the amount of aliasing which is what we were talking about before Sacred Synthesis.

Raz gets his sampler.

It seems unbelievable to have a voltage controlled sampler instead of midi sampler...but here it is. Now if Dave could talk to Dave I'm sure they could come up with the Sequential Imitator or the Sequential Doppelganger sampler synth.

I actually shifted a bit in what I would want, if I am to get anything else... I have settled with my V-Synth as my only instrument at all, thinking ONLY about getting maybe ONE more synth in the future, that will be connected to my V-Synths MIDI output (I am not connected to a computer anymore via MIDI) ... that one synth would have to be a desktop synth, and it's synthesis absolutely unique... a simple sampler thru analog filters will not cut it for me anymore, since analog filters is not of any importance to me anymore really... sure would be nice to have as an extra, but the synthesis features would be alfa omega, and any such sampler would have to be REALLY something, to add anything essential to what my V-Synth already provides :)

In fact, I see only ONE such synth at the moment, giving me a lot af extra features... the Waldorf Quantum... Wavetables, Resonator and the added analog filters would be a welcome addition, if they ever make that one in a desktop format, or DSI come up with something synthesis wise that is equivalent...

I read somewhere, that some retailer had listed the Quantum as "Quantum Keyboard", which might suggest it will be made in a desktop version as well... probably without all the hands-on knobs, controlling all or most from within the touch display... if that ever hit the market, I'll be on it in a split second as my last synth...
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 26, 2018, 07:19:12 AM
I'd love to see both Dave's collaborate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkXqdpy5uSk

You can dial in the amount of aliasing which is what we were talking about before Sacred Synthesis.

Raz gets his sampler.

It seems unbelievable to have a voltage controlled sampler instead of midi sampler...but here it is. Now if Dave could talk to Dave I'm sure they could come up with the Sequential Imitator or the Sequential Doppelganger sampler synth.

I actually shifted a bit in what I would want, if I am to get anything else... I have settled with my V-Synth as my only instrument at all, thinking ONLY about getting maybe ONE more synth in the future, that will be connected to my V-Synths MIDI output (I am not connected to a computer anymore via MIDI) ... that one synth would have to be a desktop synth, and it's synthesis absolutely unique... a simple sampler thru analog filters will not cut it for me anymore, since analog filters is not of any importance to me anymore really... sure would be nice to have as an extra, but the synthesis features would be alfa omega, and any such sampler would have to be REALLY something, to add anything essential to what my V-Synth already provides :)

In fact, I see only ONE such synth at the moment, giving me a lot af extra features... the Waldorf Quantum... Wavetables, Resonator and the added analog filters would be a welcome addition, if they ever make that one in a desktop format, or DSI come up with something synthesis wise that is equivalent...

I read somewhere, that some retailer had listed the Quantum as "Quantum Keyboard", which might suggest it will be made in a desktop version as well... probably without all the hands-on knobs, controlling all or most from within the touch display... if that ever hit the market, I'll be on it in a split second as my last synth...

Darn.

Well in either case the Assimil8r looks incredible and would love to see a collaboration with DSI.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on February 05, 2018, 10:34:47 AM
The silence is deafening over here....


(https://www.petmountain.com/photos/product/giant/114420S521013/-/1-2-oz-60-crickets-per-can-.jpg)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on February 05, 2018, 10:43:26 AM
(https://media.giphy.com/media/QeqQnozVQaehq/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on February 05, 2018, 11:24:35 AM
(https://media.giphy.com/media/QeqQnozVQaehq/giphy.gif)
I hope it is at least premium tequila...
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on February 05, 2018, 11:34:55 AM
Maybe there is room for a hybrid design based on the above presented concepts!?

:o . o O ( bugquila )
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on February 05, 2018, 01:30:08 PM
The silence is deafening over here....


(https://www.petmountain.com/photos/product/giant/114420S521013/-/1-2-oz-60-crickets-per-can-.jpg)

I've been thinking the same thing.  Not a word, not a hint, not a clue, not even an approximate date.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on February 05, 2018, 01:44:11 PM
Maybe they take their time? Maybe its a larger and more complex design?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on February 05, 2018, 01:53:18 PM
I think it's a good thing if they just follow their own schedule as opposed to teasing months in advance with no tangible outcome yet. The past years have been busy, so if they go for something different, it's only natural that it takes some more time. It's not like there have been years in which nothing happened.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on February 05, 2018, 03:09:56 PM
Not trying to sound unappreciative or impatient — because I am greatly thankful that we have DSI in the market place.  Compare their releases over the past few years to those of other synth manufacturers, even the big guys (Roland, Korg, Yamaha).  No one has released the same breadth and depth of synthesizers as DSI.  No one.  Not even close.


That being said, I have an empty slot in my synth cabinet that I highly suspect will be filled by Dave’s next masterpiece.  I’m just curious what that will be.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on February 05, 2018, 03:35:16 PM
Nah, I didn't mean to imply that you sounded unappreciative. And you're right. Compared to other major players, DSI released far more flagship type of synths over the past couple of years (basically nonstop since the Prophet 12) than anybody else.

This time it's maybe a special situation because they didn't appear at NAMM and no-one even has the slightest idea what the next move could be. There are the usual wishes and requests, but anything else appears to be more unpredictable than ever.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on February 05, 2018, 03:41:47 PM
:-X . o O ( ... (https://youtu.be/Nf_Y4MbUCLY?t=33s) )
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on February 05, 2018, 07:09:46 PM
I think that I am going to hold off on getting anything else after my Two Voice....well maybe a REV2, until I see what Dave and the gang are up to...I’m tempted to get a Poly Evolver or even Nord Wave but then I run the risk of Dave coming out with a brand new Hybrid or digital synth.

As far as analog goes...I’m not sure they would wait this long for a simply mono...I have no idea what else they can come up with at this point...well multitimbrality but I don’t know if they would.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on February 05, 2018, 08:36:28 PM
I think the word is "anticipation".  We're all excited and impatient to know what the big secret is, in the hope that the long wait will be worthwhile.  But please toss us a crumb or two to get us through.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Gerry Havinga on February 06, 2018, 01:30:31 AM
We have already discussed this in the thread here, but after my experience yesterday evening I still would like to add my own two cents, sorry if I repeat stuff  :)

Last night I got really deep into mangling single cycle (600 samples at 44.1 kHz mono WAV format) wave forms on my Akai S5000. On the Akai it is possible to assign multiple sample WAVs to a program by grouping them together in keygroups. You can have 4 in total in one program. Each of those keygroups can have their own LFOs, filters, amp/filter envelopes and so on. It was kind of amazing how it allowed me, with two simple single cycle samples, to create an amazingly complex sound.

I would love to see this kind of functionality appear someplace in a DSI instrument. What the Akai is capable of, despite being a system designed in the previous century, I find amazing given the processor technology from that time period.

Sooner or later of course the S5000 will break down. Anyway I am interested in looking for something that can replace it, surpass it even. I don't even know if there are other manufacturers out there that produce similar functional hardware products. I am not interested in computer sampling - I am interested in an artistic / high tech instrument with it's own characteristics and quirks  ;)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on February 06, 2018, 09:47:51 AM
Something similar to this....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnwQUGTJ6iM
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Gerry Havinga on February 06, 2018, 10:28:41 AM
Something similar to this....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnwQUGTJ6iM
Not sure, the S5000 has 64 notes polyphony (128 notes with added expansion), 8 outputs (4 stereo pairs, double that with added expansion), 2 LFOs per keygroup (you can have 4 keygroups per program and up to 64 programs in a multi ...), practically unlimited storage (good old SCSI/IDE disks or SCSI/IDE compact flash), 128MBytes of memory but can play samples directly from disk and so on.

But it is the sound sculpting, assigning multiple samples across the keyboard (assigned to MIDI notes) and combining of samples etc. that makes it interesting.

Bells and café noises from Akai: https://soundcloud.com/user-252754541/a-sign-of-a-limited-self-direct-recording-take1#t=0:15
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Gerry Havinga on February 06, 2018, 10:29:54 AM
The question is of course: will DSI want to, are they able to, produce a sampling product with Akai S5000 kind of capabilities?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on February 06, 2018, 11:44:46 AM
Something similar to this....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnwQUGTJ6iM
Not sure, the S5000 has 64 notes polyphony (128 notes with added expansion), 8 outputs (4 stereo pairs, double that with added expansion), 2 LFOs per keygroup (you can have 4 keygroups per program and up to 64 programs in a multi ...), practically unlimited storage (good old SCSI/IDE disks or SCSI/IDE compact flash), 128MBytes of memory but can play samples directly from disk and so on.

But it is the sound sculpting, assigning multiple samples across the keyboard (assigned to MIDI notes) and combining of samples etc. that makes it interesting.

Bells and café noises from Akai: https://soundcloud.com/user-252754541/a-sign-of-a-limited-self-direct-recording-take1#t=0:15

I was more speaking of the fact of uploading samples and then running them through an analog synthesis engine. Although the Nord isn't analog it's unique in a sense where it's essentially not only a modern sampler but you can use those samples as waveforms and morph them and blend them together to create new tones.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on February 06, 2018, 11:53:40 AM
I was more speaking of the fact of uploading samples and then running them through an analog synthesis engine. Although the Nord isn't analog it's unique in a sense where it's essentially not only a modern sampler but you can use those samples as waveforms and morph them and blend them together to create new tones.
What do you mean by "sample morphing"?   I'm not sure the Nord Wave does what you think it does....
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on February 06, 2018, 12:04:16 PM
I was more speaking of the fact of uploading samples and then running them through an analog synthesis engine. Although the Nord isn't analog it's unique in a sense where it's essentially not only a modern sampler but you can use those samples as waveforms and morph them and blend them together to create new tones.
What do you mean by "sample morphing"?   I'm not sure the Nord Wave does what you think it does....

It allows you to sample your own sounds into the keyboard as waveforms and run them through the synthesis engine instead of playing static samples.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on February 06, 2018, 08:09:33 PM
I was more speaking of the fact of uploading samples and then running them through an analog synthesis engine. Although the Nord isn't analog it's unique in a sense where it's essentially not only a modern sampler but you can use those samples as waveforms and morph them and blend them together to create new tones.
What do you mean by "sample morphing"?   I'm not sure the Nord Wave does what you think it does....

It allows you to sample your own sounds into the keyboard as waveforms and run them through the synthesis engine instead of playing static samples.
Right. I thought you meant that it allowed you to “wave morph” between two samples which, unless I remember incorrectly, it doesn’t allow you to do.
The Nord Lead 3 is still among my favorite sounding VA synths.  And I love the architecture.  I should have kept mine....
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on February 07, 2018, 06:17:42 AM
I was more speaking of the fact of uploading samples and then running them through an analog synthesis engine. Although the Nord isn't analog it's unique in a sense where it's essentially not only a modern sampler but you can use those samples as waveforms and morph them and blend them together to create new tones.
What do you mean by "sample morphing"?   I'm not sure the Nord Wave does what you think it does....

It allows you to sample your own sounds into the keyboard as waveforms and run them through the synthesis engine instead of playing static samples.
Right. I thought you meant that it allowed you to “wave morph” between two samples which, unless I remember incorrectly, it doesn’t allow you to do.
The Nord Lead 3 is still among my favorite sounding VA synths.  And I love the architecture.  I should have kept mine....

I really do like Nord Synths...shame they are so focused on stage pianos/organs. I think they could be killing it in the digital synth department. Stuff like the Wave and G2 are so unique. Shame the Lead stuff is so expensive...especially since it's VA. Hard for me to justify it.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: proteus-ix on February 07, 2018, 03:38:04 PM
...mangling single cycle (600 samples at 44.1 kHz mono WAV format) wave forms on my Akai S5000. On the Akai it is possible to...

I think there is a perception that because modern computers are so much more powerful than the 80s/90s, that modern samplers are just as good.  But IMO a lot of the architecture of those old Akais, Emus and Ensoniqs hasn't really been repeated in software, and certainly not with the kind of poly aftertouch that made things like the EPS16+ such an expressive instrument.

I would love to see Dave pull something together like those, and maybe blend it with an Evolver or VS.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on February 07, 2018, 06:34:54 PM
I really do like Nord Synths...shame they are so focused on stage pianos/organs. I think they could be killing it in the digital synth department. Stuff like the Wave and G2 are so unique. Shame the Lead stuff is so expensive...especially since it's VA. Hard for me to justify it.
If you’re talking the Nord Lead 4 or A1, yeah, over-priced.  But you can pick up a Wave or Nord Lead 3 at a decent price.  I actually prefer the NL3 over the NL4 anyway. 
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on February 07, 2018, 07:48:57 PM
...mangling single cycle (600 samples at 44.1 kHz mono WAV format) wave forms on my Akai S5000. On the Akai it is possible to...

I think there is a perception that because modern computers are so much more powerful than the 80s/90s, that modern samplers are just as good.  But IMO a lot of the architecture of those old Akais, Emus and Ensoniqs hasn't really been repeated in software, and certainly not with the kind of poly aftertouch that made things like the EPS16+ such an expressive instrument.

I would love to see Dave pull something together like those, and maybe blend it with an Evolver or VS.

Agree 100%
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Gerry Havinga on February 09, 2018, 02:58:18 AM
...mangling single cycle (600 samples at 44.1 kHz mono WAV format) wave forms on my Akai S5000. On the Akai it is possible to...

I think there is a perception that because modern computers are so much more powerful than the 80s/90s, that modern samplers are just as good.  But IMO a lot of the architecture of those old Akais, Emus and Ensoniqs hasn't really been repeated in software, and certainly not with the kind of poly aftertouch that made things like the EPS16+ such an expressive instrument.

I would love to see Dave pull something together like those, and maybe blend it with an Evolver or VS.
Totally agree, especially if you also consider the workflow.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dsetto on February 27, 2018, 06:42:19 AM
I too would be intrigued by a DSI sampler. Can someone expand upon what was compelling about those old early samplers? I have no experience with them.

-
My notions would be:
- Lo-fi sound
- analog filters
- synthesis programming
- immediate all-in-one sampling workflow
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dsetto on February 27, 2018, 07:08:08 AM
What I would enjoy:
A sampler with instant or peri-instant control of
- sample start
- sample end. Can be as short as a wave cycle.
- loop on/off. Repeat #
- Reverse. Perhaps applicable to selected portions
- Ability to quickly append a few samples into a composite "wave". With flexible selection of component wave sections. (Attack of one, sustain of other). With cross-fade controls. (Maybe 16-32 total "slots".)

I.e., an instrument dedicated to sampling. Via analog filters. Terrific knob-button laden UI.
With characteristically thoughtful DSI-style programming features. Like found on Rev2 or P12.
- parameter sequencer
- performance sequencer
- Delay play
- And LFO's
Always fun!

---
RAM vs flash rom workflow/costs. Enough (but not too much) of both. This is one of the tough spots about this endeavor. Memory size & kind is a fundamental cost question. What are sweet spots for RAM (for editing) and Flash Rom for quick-access playback. This is the topic that will garner such complaints from the clueless- making useless comparisons to computer based systems. I admire makers who have the stomach for that vitriol.
--
The other tough thing:
-- DSP/coding that's responsive for that level of complexity
-- screen. Which way is enough for flow, and not too much. I would think a simple LCD/OLED style screen will suffice. It can't have it all and match price point, development, and workflow needs for a wide enough market.

It's so much easier to write a forum post. My hats off to successful designers who succeed off their designs!!!

---

Personal Requirement:
Key onset-to-sound latency has to be less than 1/3 ms.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on February 27, 2018, 07:52:29 AM
I too would be intrigued by a DSI sampler. Can someone expand upon what was compelling about those old early samplers? I have no experience with them.

-
My notions would be:
- Lo-fi sound
- analog filters
- synthesis programming
- immediate all-in-one sampling workflow

The compelling aspect would be mostly the latter for those who prefer to process their samples with dedicated hardware instead of computers, although you'd mostly end up with a computer in a different chassis in the end plus dedicated controllers and maybe analog components like filters and VCAs. The latter two ingredients and workflow would basically be the only aspects that could legitimate such an endeavour.

No matter how you go about it, a hardware sampler in 2018 would have to live up to the expectations and the possibilities of according software solutions. So what you wrote in your follow-up post and granular synthesis options would have to be the minimum requirements—that, and probably live looping options like on Elektron's Octatrack. And a huge display for easy visualized sample manipulation in real time, like the GR-1 by Tasty Chips provides for example.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on February 27, 2018, 01:54:36 PM
I'd actually like to see a small 8 track on board sequencer as well if they are going to go the sampling route.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dsetto on February 27, 2018, 07:05:34 PM
Nice. I would enjoy an 8-track sequencer on any DSI keyboard.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: proteus-ix on March 01, 2018, 10:20:47 AM
I too would be intrigued by a DSI sampler. Can someone expand upon what was compelling about those old early samplers? I have no experience with them.

-
My notions would be:
- Lo-fi sound
- analog filters
- synthesis programming
- immediate all-in-one sampling workflow


Those things, but also my EPS16+ has very useable polyphonic aftertouch, and with creative routings (xstart and loop position for example) to aftertouch and the mod wheel, it creates a level of expressiveness AND control that I've never experienced any other way.  So part of it is the sample manipulation capabilities they programmed in, where a lot of other samplers might do repeats or other things that are more beat oriented.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on March 01, 2018, 06:21:07 PM
Nice. I would enjoy an 8-track sequencer on any DSI keyboard.

I know a lot of keyboards are getting away from on board sequencers but I think for a sampler there’s no reason why you can’t include even a small one.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dsetto on March 01, 2018, 08:46:00 PM
EPS16+ sounds amazing with deep programming/performance modulation connected to sample manipulation.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on March 02, 2018, 11:55:55 AM
What about MPE? Seems like there are mixed feelings about this. Personally speaking, I think if MPE were implemented it would be better with piano action keys like the Synclavier, CS-80 or Prophet T8. I think synth action keys would be awkward and too easy to misplay articulations.

Also I would really like to see a touch strip across the synth as opposed to on the pitch/mod wheel side like the Prophet 12.

I think that would be the only real mindblowing thing they could do in the analog realm. Other than Multitimbrality of course which I doubt we'll ever see again.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on March 02, 2018, 12:55:01 PM
MPE makes mostly sense on the side of MIDI implementation. No-one would expect DSI to come up with their own MPE controller attached to a synth, as there are already some alternatives to choose from. Besides, any sort of standard keyboard is too primitive if you wanna make full use of MPE. Even if a keyboard would allow for polyphonic aftertouch, that would only cover one aspect of possible articulations via MPE.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on April 10, 2018, 08:53:45 AM
It may be nothing more than a little spring cleaning, but I noticed that Sweetwater has reduced the price of the OB-6 Keyboard to $2,700.  In anticipation of a new instrument from DSI - and possibly one of flagship caliber - I would expect the elimination of something from the current DSI line.  It will likely be the Prophet 12, or perhaps not.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Soundquest on April 10, 2018, 11:33:04 AM
Another "flagship"   Umnn...hopefully not until my GC credit card zeros out next year.  I can't keep up with these guys  ;)

In all seriousness,  I can avoid the GAS,  unless it's going to be a PEK remake.    By the way....Just got to the PEK for a few minutes yesterday after a month away from it.  Whether it be nostalgia or just that darn blue I like, but I feel so at home on that instrument. 
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Robot Heart on April 10, 2018, 12:22:48 PM
It may be nothing more than a little spring cleaning, but I noticed that Sweetwater has reduced the price of the OB-6 Keyboard to $2,700.

That looks like it's for an open-box/B-stock unit, I wouldn't read too much into it  ;)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on April 10, 2018, 01:18:44 PM
Yeah, I suppose that's the case.  It says both "new" and "like new".  Rats.  I thought I was on to something.  I guess I'm looking for hints of things to come.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on April 10, 2018, 01:22:14 PM
Another "flagship"   Umnn...hopefully not until my GC credit card zeros out next year.  I can't keep up with these guys  ;)

In all seriousness,  I can avoid the GAS,  unless it's going to be a PEK remake.    By the way....Just got to the PEK for a few minutes yesterday after a month away from it.  Whether it be nostalgia or just that darn blue I like, but I feel so at home on that instrument.

Hey, Soundquest.  With a Poly Evolver Keyboard and a brand new Prophet 12, you should be immune to GAS for some time.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Soundquest on April 13, 2018, 12:24:30 PM
Good point Sacred Synthesis :)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on April 27, 2018, 08:32:59 AM
Just curious....did anyone see this.....

https://www.facebook.com/davesmithinstruments/videos/1951007941590727/
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Benzebub on April 27, 2018, 08:37:21 AM
Just curious....did anyone see this.....

https://www.facebook.com/davesmithinstruments/videos/1951007941590727/

Just saw this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWjNFleS8e4
Sounds like a sampler synth.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Jan Schultink on April 27, 2018, 09:11:04 AM
https://www.instagram.com/p/BiFFWPogJgP/
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on April 27, 2018, 10:15:01 AM
Hmmm possible sampler, Sequential name back, what sounds like VS waves, and the name "X".

They really do read these forums ;)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: DavidDever on April 27, 2018, 10:45:02 AM
It'll be interesting to see what the sample ingest and playback capabilities are–but it might explain the job posting for a QNX developer within the last year (as one would need some robust real-time filesystem management to load and play large multisample maps).

This would definitely make me re-consider whether a Nord stage instrument was in my future or not, and is also a quite different take on the analogue + digital hybrid (Waldorf Quantum, Korg Prologue, Roland JD-XA, and other great instruments from the past).
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sleep of Reason on April 27, 2018, 12:39:59 PM
X for crossover?

I'm surprised no one mentioned the 16 voice button...
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Gerry Havinga on April 27, 2018, 01:19:59 PM
Wow even picture now, Prophet X

http://www.synthanatomy.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/ProphetX.jpg (http://www.synthanatomy.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/ProphetX.jpg)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on April 27, 2018, 01:47:55 PM
Instruments by 8Dio!!!
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on April 27, 2018, 03:32:24 PM
I'm at a complete loss as to what to expect next. I'm still pushing for one of the following

Prophet 20 with multitimbrality (although this could be tricky with finding a balance between menu diving and a direct hands on experience)

Prophet X (A complete digital synth with boy VS and FM capabilities as well as sampling).....but this could easily happen with an OS upgrade for the Prophet 12 that adds more VS waves and samples from the Prophet 2000 as oscillator shape options.

Much like how the Rev2 is essentially two Prophet 08s under one hood (with a better) layout could we see the same thing happen with the Prophet 6 as sort of a throwback to the Prophet 10? With the OPTION to hook a controller up to the synth and play each engine on separate keybeds as well as the ability to split and layer on a single keybed. With no menu in keeping true to the Prophet 6 tradition and layout.

Would we see an the idea Pioneer AS-1 as an actual successor of the Pro 2 with 4 independent VCO based AS-1 engines under one hood with a fatar keybed allowing 4 different patches and sequences to be played independently? The PRO-4?

More importantly to me....will we ever see the Sequential name on anything again?

I guess I better start buying lottery tickets.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: chysn on April 27, 2018, 04:59:14 PM
Quote
Prophet X (A complete digital synth with boy VS and FM capabilities as well as sampling)
...
More importantly to me....will we ever see the Sequential name on anything again?

I guess I better start buying lottery tickets.

Well done!

And what's 8Dio?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: chysn on April 27, 2018, 05:20:24 PM
This better come in a three-octave version! <ducks>

But seriously, it looks and sounds amazing. I can't wait to learn more.

The picture, of course, from a synth geek's perspective, is rubbish. It looks like there are enough back-panel labels to support audio inputs as well as outputs.

X for crossover?

Maybe. Or perhaps "cross-fading." The player in the demo is playing with those instrument knobs to bring individual parts in and out. Maybe there's a Wavestation element to the thing.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: DavidDever on April 27, 2018, 06:12:51 PM
Quote
Prophet X (A complete digital synth with boy VS and FM capabilities as well as sampling)
...
More importantly to me....will we ever see the Sequential name on anything again?

I guess I better start buying lottery tickets.

Well done!

And what's 8Dio?

https://8dio.com/company/history-8dio/
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on April 27, 2018, 08:30:47 PM
The now standard DSI synthesizer frame has a wonderfully artful balance to it.  The Prophet X looks much like the Prophet 12 - beautiful to the eyes.  I notice the X has three OLED's and seemingly black wood cheeks.  It will be exciting to see a spec sheet.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dsetto on April 27, 2018, 11:36:47 PM
...  Or perhaps "cross-fading." The player in the demo is playing with those instrument knobs to bring individual parts in and out. Maybe there's a Wavestation element to the thing.
"X for cross-fading" sounds reasonable



Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on April 28, 2018, 06:22:37 AM
There is a new thread for the Prophet X, until DSI opens a new section for the instrument.

https://forum.davesmithinstruments.com/index.php/topic,2515.new.html#new
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on May 13, 2018, 12:54:09 PM
Yes I know I'm WAY early on this one but I figured now would be a good a time as any. I do firmly believe the next DSI synth is going to be an upgraded Poly Evolver or a completely digital form of synthesis (with VCFs and VCAs of course). I think Dave touched on digital synthesis recently with the Prophet 12 and a bit early with the Poly Evolver. Although there are digital oscillators in the Prophet X I'm speaking more in terms of FM synthesis and Vector Synthesis. Paul Dither's Sequential Waves design really got my mind racing. Perhaps instead of two touch strips on the side, we could get a ribbon controller just above the key bed. Could we get a Joystick? Could we see another collaboration but with John Bowen? Of course the dual effects engine of the P6/OB6 added and of course it has to be Blue lol.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on May 13, 2018, 07:13:16 PM
I agree.  Something at least reminiscent of the Poly Evolver will appear.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: SandyS1 on August 06, 2018, 02:38:18 PM
I posted my desire for a Rev2-ization of the PEK over in the PEK board. I'd also be happy with something that goes a bit beyond, maybe combining the Modal Animator with VS/Wavestation-style blending of waves, while also providing modulatable wavetables, all with the stereo filters from the PX.

But again, I'd buy the more-voices-and-modulation-and-effects version of the PEK sight unseen.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on August 06, 2018, 02:46:30 PM
I posted my desire for a Rev2-ization of the PEK over in the PEK board. I'd also be happy with something that goes a bit beyond, maybe combining the Modal Animator with VS/Wavestation-style blending of waves, while also providing modulatable wavetables, all with the stereo filters from the PX.

But again, I'd buy the more-voices-and-modulation-and-effects version of the PEK sight unseen.

As long as it's blue lol
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on August 06, 2018, 06:31:01 PM
I posted my desire for a Rev2-ization of the PEK over in the PEK board. I'd also be happy with something that goes a bit beyond, maybe combining the Modal Animator with VS/Wavestation-style blending of waves, while also providing modulatable wavetables, all with the stereo filters from the PX.

But again, I'd buy the more-voices-and-modulation-and-effects version of the PEK sight unseen.

I'd be happy simply to get a Poly Evolver Keyboard in brand new condition to last for the long haul - no feature addition requests at all.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on August 06, 2018, 06:39:26 PM
I'd be happy simply to get a Poly Evolver Keyboard in brand new condition to last for the long haul - no feature addition requests at all.
Not even a request for more polyphony? 8 voices?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on August 06, 2018, 06:51:12 PM
I'd be happy simply to get a Poly Evolver Keyboard in brand new condition to last for the long haul - no feature addition requests at all.
Not even a request for more polyphony? 8 voices?

Yes, that would be nice.  A ten-voice PEK would be a dream-come-true, but I was also considering the price.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on August 22, 2018, 04:36:53 AM
I'm sorry, but I do not think that a reissue of the Evolver will be done... Dave allready said that the P12 was that really...

I actually believe that the next thing might be something that will utilize the new SSM Rossum chips that we now saw in the Prophet X... maybe it could even be an update to the Prophet 12... a lot of people have been asking for something multitimbral for studio use... i've seen these requests a lot, so it might even be something in that direction, using the SSM chips maybe... I'm certain that anything that would need a high voicecount like a multitimbral synth would be using chips instead of solid state filters etc.

Actually, what i would like to see is something a bit different... there have been many complaints when it comes to the Tempest, and i really think that this is an area where DSI should update it to a more advanced machine... this is a machine that would also benefit from the two new technologies that's in the PX... the sample part, so that a Tempest 2 could finaly have user samples, and the new SSM filter for the voices... but also including digital FX which I missed a lot when I had the Tempest, so that you're free from fiddling about with external FX on individual outputs... A Tempest 2, with added user sample support, internal FX and SSM filters is certainly something I'd like to see next... preferably with an option to have either 8 or 16 voices like with the REV2.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on August 22, 2018, 07:24:14 AM
I'm sorry, but I do not think that a reissue of the Evolver will be done... Dave allready said that the P12 was that really...

No need to apologize.  I agree.  We're just dreaming out loud here.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on August 22, 2018, 09:35:10 AM
I'm sorry, but I do not think that a reissue of the Evolver will be done... Dave allready said that the P12 was that really...

I actually believe that the next thing might be something that will utilize the new SSM Rossum chips that we now saw in the Prophet X... maybe it could even be an update to the Prophet 12... a lot of people have been asking for something multitimbral for studio use... i've seen these requests a lot, so it might even be something in that direction, using the SSM chips maybe... I'm certain that anything that would need a high voicecount like a multitimbral synth would be using chips instead of solid state filters etc.

Actually, what i would like to see is something a bit different... there have been many complaints when it comes to the Tempest, and i really think that this is an area where DSI should update it to a more advanced machine... this is a machine that would also benefit from the two new technologies that's in the PX... the sample part, so that a Tempest 2 could finaly have user samples, and the new SSM filter for the voices... but also including digital FX which I missed a lot when I had the Tempest, so that you're free from fiddling about with external FX on individual outputs... A Tempest 2, with added user sample support, internal FX and SSM filters is certainly something I'd like to see next... preferably with an option to have either 8 or 16 voices like with the REV2.

Dave also once remarked he would never do another VCO synth again....well...

I don’t see the Tempest 2 happening. There’s way to many options with the MPC stuff and even DSI’s collaboration with pioneer which had the P6 filter and user sampling. I think Dave philosophy is to stand out rather than fit in.

I think the key is listening to that interview Dave did with Paul Dither. He spoke about MPE, multitimbrality so I could see a four part multitimbral synth with 20 voices.

Personally, like I said, I would love for John Bowen and Dave to do a synth together again and create the ultimate digital/analog hybrid. Concepts of the Solaris meets the REV2 with the two digital oscillators having all the VS waves, hundred something waves licensed from Waldorf while two analog DCO (I’d hope for VCO’s but doubtful) from the REV2 but also with a Supersaw option as well. The joy stick and ribbon controller of the Solaris. Four part multitimbrality each with its own dual effects, sequence, arpeggiator and keyboard split zone. 10 voices stereo with 20 voice mono option.  I mean essentially that is a Poly Evolver in concept but on steroids.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on August 22, 2018, 11:08:19 AM
I'm sorry, but I do not think that a reissue of the Evolver will be done... Dave allready said that the P12 was that really...

I actually believe that the next thing might be something that will utilize the new SSM Rossum chips that we now saw in the Prophet X... maybe it could even be an update to the Prophet 12... a lot of people have been asking for something multitimbral for studio use... i've seen these requests a lot, so it might even be something in that direction, using the SSM chips maybe... I'm certain that anything that would need a high voicecount like a multitimbral synth would be using chips instead of solid state filters etc.

Actually, what i would like to see is something a bit different... there have been many complaints when it comes to the Tempest, and i really think that this is an area where DSI should update it to a more advanced machine... this is a machine that would also benefit from the two new technologies that's in the PX... the sample part, so that a Tempest 2 could finaly have user samples, and the new SSM filter for the voices... but also including digital FX which I missed a lot when I had the Tempest, so that you're free from fiddling about with external FX on individual outputs... A Tempest 2, with added user sample support, internal FX and SSM filters is certainly something I'd like to see next... preferably with an option to have either 8 or 16 voices like with the REV2.

Dave also once remarked he would never do another VCO synth again....well...

I don’t see the Tempest 2 happening. There’s way to many options with the MPC stuff and even DSI’s collaboration with pioneer which had the P6 filter and user sampling. I think Dave philosophy is to stand out rather than fit in.

I think the key is listening to that interview Dave did with Paul Dither. He spoke about MPE, multitimbrality so I could see a four part multitimbral synth with 20 voices.

Personally, like I said, I would love for John Bowen and Dave to do a synth together again and create the ultimate digital/analog hybrid. Concepts of the Solaris meets the REV2 with the two digital oscillators having all the VS waves, hundred something waves licensed from Waldorf while two analog DCO (I’d hope for VCO’s but doubtful) from the REV2 but also with a Supersaw option as well. The joy stick and ribbon controller of the Solaris. Four part multitimbrality each with its own dual effects, sequence, arpeggiator and keyboard split zone. 10 voices stereo with 20 voice mono option.  I mean essentially that is a Poly Evolver in concept but on steroids.

The "Tempest 2" was my dream... not because i think it will ever happen... I know that Dave once talked about the work on the Tempest was exhausting, so I think he's probably scared of doing another one... still... I think there would be a good reason to make one that features the things that the first Tempest did not... It may not be DSI though, that will create this device... i don't know... and i really do not care either to be honest... I've learned not to expect anything from DSI... I'll just see what pops up, and if it catches my interrest, that gives you the least headaches ;)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on September 01, 2018, 02:47:28 PM
I might be alone on this one, but Dave’s take on a Matrix 12 would be sweet!
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on September 02, 2018, 04:32:19 AM
I might be alone on this one, but Dave’s take on a Matrix 12 would be sweet!

In a way, every DSI synth was a take on the Matrix 12 – at least with regard to the almost modular mod matrix.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on September 02, 2018, 07:09:44 AM
I might be alone on this one, but Dave’s take on a Matrix 12 would be sweet!

In a way, every DSI synth was a take on the Matrix 12 – at least with regard to the almost modular mod matrix.
That’s very true.  I suppose then what I really want is a cross between the OB-6 and the Rev2 16 voice:
16 voices, bi-timbral
Oberheim VCOs and SVFs
4 LFOs
4 Envelopes
The “everything mod matrix” that we all love
Arpeggiator
Sequencer (for events like the Pro 2)
Effects are optional (IMHO)


I know the Rev 2 is very close to that, but the heart wants what the heart wants...



Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on September 02, 2018, 11:39:06 AM
I suppose then what I really want is a cross between the OB-6 and the Rev2 16 voice:
16 voices, bi-timbral
Oberheim VCOs and SVFs
4 LFOs
4 Envelopes
The “everything mod matrix” that we all love
Arpeggiator
Sequencer (for events like the Pro 2)
Effects are optional (IMHO)


I know the Rev 2 is very close to that, but the heart wants what the heart wants...

In case you had SEM circuitry in mind: The Matrix 12 was entirely based on Curtis chips. But just like every Oberheim synth built after the OB-X, that didn't make it sound similar to any of Prophets, though. I'm surprised you didn't mention the multimode filter, which – next to the mod matrix itself – was one of the features that stood out the most. Based on 4 combined 1 pole circuits it allowed for 15 filter configurations in total. I guess the only modern analog poly that allowed for similar filter settings is the 008.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Quatschmacher on September 02, 2018, 12:50:50 PM
I’d be happy if whatever comes next has a five-octave Fatar TP9S keybed, pitch and mod wheels next to the keyboard and the sliders and sequencer from the Pro 2 (but polyphonic).

I’m still new to this. I think I’d be quite happy with the P6 if it weren’t for the short keyboard.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on September 02, 2018, 12:57:38 PM
I'm surprised you didn't mention the multimode filter, which – next to the mod matrix itself – was one of the features that stood out the most. Based on 4 combined 1 pole circuits it allowed for 15 filter configurations in total. I guess the only modern analog poly that allowed for similar filter settings is the 008.
Yeah... that would be sweet, but realistically, I don’t think Sequntial would do it... I don’t know why I don’t think Dave would do it.  I suppose I’m just basing that on the Filter variations he’s released thusfar.

Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on September 02, 2018, 05:36:39 PM
I actually wouldn’t mind a four octave keyboard. It’s never hindered me with what I do. I think if you start adding splits and layers that’s the only time you really should have a larger keybed. Honestly, I think that the P6 and OB6 are probably going to be the last VCO based synths Dave does. I think he’s going to move on to different forms of synthesis and newer stuff for Sequential. I mean realistically...what else can he do with analog synthesis at this point?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: megamarkd on September 02, 2018, 08:32:47 PM
...I mean realistically...what else can he do with analog synthesis at this point?

It's been done over and over and over again, as has my call for hybrid synths.  I recently bought a Sallen-Key (Steiner) filter with an input at each pole.  Makes for some interesting effects when sweeping the filter not too dissimilar to vector synthesis.  Running a sample-based sound source into it's three inputs and modulating the sample/s via the same source as the filter modulation kept me nicely entertained for some hours last night.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on September 04, 2018, 09:10:00 AM
Interesting to note...around the 430 mark he states Sequential has a new synth in the works!

https://youtu.be/2ReqlXhSD3M
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on September 04, 2018, 09:27:05 AM
Interesting to note...around the 430 mark he states Sequential has a new synth in the works!

Well, they always have a new synth in development so no surprise there. But if there one to be announced soon that would be very new. Interesting!

Thanks a lot for sharing the video.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on September 04, 2018, 10:33:33 AM
Interesting to note...around the 430 mark he states Sequential has a new synth in the works!

Well, they always have a new synth in development so no surprise there. But if there one to be announced soon that would be very new. Interesting!

Thanks a lot for sharing the video.

No problem. :). My mind is racing on what it might be. New Poly Evolver? New Pro-something? A new Six Trak? A new Dual Keyboard Prophet 10 but with P6’s voicing?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on September 04, 2018, 10:52:01 AM
My mind is racing on what it might be. New Poly Evolver? New Pro-something? A new Six Trak? A new Dual Keyboard Prophet 10 but with P6’s voicing?

It could be many things. Best advice is to just wait and see what it will be. Much easier that way!

As for guessing what comes next one have to resort to different disciplines (https://youtu.be/vt0Y39eMvpI?t=41s)!

. o O ( :-X )
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on September 04, 2018, 11:00:57 AM
It's either a Prophet 7, a Prophet 9, or a Prophet 11!  Equally interesting, I wonder what instrument it will be replacing, if any.  I say the Prophet 12 is next on the chopping block, or else, the Mopho x4.

Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on September 04, 2018, 11:19:31 AM
It's either a Prophet 7, a Prophet 9, or a Prophet 11!  Equally interesting, I wonder what instrument it will be replacing, if any.  I say the Prophet 12 is next on the chopping block, or else, the Mopho x4.

There are many options on both voice architecture, user interface and product naming fronts. Not to mention all the products that can have a "Pro" prefix. So I have stopped guessing and are only curious to see if the voice architecture would interest me. Much easier that way!
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on September 04, 2018, 11:21:46 AM
I was only kidding!  But since Dave is in a nostalgic mood these days, I wonder if the new instrument will look to one of his former instruments.  Surely the Evolver line holds a special place.  Just dreaming....
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on September 04, 2018, 01:02:18 PM
I think the Paul Dither interview with Dave gives clues on to what might be next : Multitimbrality, MPE etc.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on September 04, 2018, 01:40:02 PM
I was only kidding!  But since Dave is in a nostalgic mood these days, I wonder if the new instrument will look to one of his former instruments.  Surely the Evolver line holds a special place.  Just dreaming....

Well, one can only hope that they mix tradition with new stuff and sometimes make more adventurous designs. But as said: lets wait and see what happens. Its so easy to be disappointed if the expectations are too high.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on September 04, 2018, 01:50:31 PM
I agree.  I gave up on the guessing game long ago.  Besides, I'm fine with whatever DSI makes.  They've never made a synthesizer I didn't like.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on September 04, 2018, 02:07:01 PM
I agree.  I gave up on the guessing game long ago.  Besides, I'm fine with whatever DSI makes.  They've never made a synthesizer I didn't like.
That’s the problem... my wallet can’t take another one yet.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dslsynth on September 04, 2018, 02:12:54 PM
Besides, I'm fine with whatever DSI makes.  They've never made a synthesizer I didn't like.

I prefer to say that I find all DSI/Sequential designs interesting but I like some of the designs more than the other designs.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on September 04, 2018, 03:39:43 PM
You know I wouldn’t even mind if it’s was another four octave synth. I know a lot of people don’t like them but I’ve actually grown to appreciate my Prophet 6. Especially since it’s Mono timbral.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Quatschmacher on September 05, 2018, 07:41:12 AM
Given the 40th anniversary one might expect some kind of Prophet 5 homage (though Dave said he wasn’t into reissues).

I think I might put off my next purchase for a while to see what this is.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on September 05, 2018, 08:57:38 AM
I'd like to see DSI produce the modern equivalent of the Mopho x4.  It would be a refreshing change to offer a smaller less expensive instrument, something that gathers up the many technical advances DSI/Sequential has made over the last several years.  It could serve as both a small analog polyphonic and a monophonic instrument, something like a reduced version of the Rev2, but different.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on September 05, 2018, 12:00:10 PM
I'd like to see DSI produce the modern equivalent of the Mopho x4.  It would be a refreshing change to offer a smaller less expensive instrument, something that gathers up the many technical advances DSI/Sequential has made over the last several years.  It could serve as both a small analog polyphonic and a monophonic instrument, something like a reduced version of the Rev2, but different.

Or possibly the idea of a Pro4. Four VCO based Mono synths under the hood which each can have their own effect, patch, sequence. Can be split, or layered across the keyboard and configured in different settings with some engines being controlled by the sequencers and some controlled by the keyboard etc. Sort of like 4 Pioneer AS1 units chained together with a keyboard.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on September 05, 2018, 12:00:52 PM
Given the 40th anniversary one might expect some kind of Prophet 5 homage (though Dave said he wasn’t into reissues).

I think I might put off my next purchase for a while to see what this is.

I mean that’s essentially what the P6 is.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Quatschmacher on September 05, 2018, 02:12:49 PM
Given the 40th anniversary one might expect some kind of Prophet 5 homage (though Dave said he wasn’t into reissues).

I think I might put off my next purchase for a while to see what this is.

I mean that’s essentially what the P6 is.

Aside from the short keyboard.  :)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on September 05, 2018, 08:01:20 PM
Given the 40th anniversary one might expect some kind of Prophet 5 homage (though Dave said he wasn’t into reissues).

I think I might put off my next purchase for a while to see what this is.

I mean that’s essentially what the P6 is.

Aside from the short keyboard.  :)

And more features and stability.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sleep of Reason on September 06, 2018, 11:51:39 AM
Plus the P6's 2040 based filters are discrete. I remember Dave chuckling when talking about folks who claim the old Prophets are so much better sounding than the P6.

On a side note - I'm curious if there's any word on whether the current DSI labeled line-up will be rebranded as Sequential going forward?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Quatschmacher on September 06, 2018, 12:03:27 PM

On a side note - I'm curious if there's any word on whether the current DSI labeled line-up will be rebranded as Sequential going forward?

I asked that very question via a comment on their Facebook announcement but haven’t heard anything.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on September 06, 2018, 02:35:15 PM
Plus the P6's 2040 based filters are discrete. I remember Dave chuckling when talking about folks who claim the old Prophets are so much better sounding than the P6.

On a side note - I'm curious if there's any word on whether the current DSI labeled line-up will be rebranded as Sequential going forward?

I don’t think so but you never know. I’m pretty sure this is why they already have a new synth almost ready to go. Want to just start pumping out some Sequential gear cause so far they only have two out of their lineup.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: eXode on September 08, 2018, 01:39:25 AM
It's a shame that Doug Curtis isn't with us anymore. I would have loved to see a new development of the "synth on a chip" for use in future sequential products.

Some ideas I had for an evolved chip:

Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: eXode on September 08, 2018, 01:52:05 AM
I'd like to see DSI produce the modern equivalent of the Mopho x4.  It would be a refreshing change to offer a smaller less expensive instrument, something that gathers up the many technical advances DSI/Sequential has made over the last several years.  It could serve as both a small analog polyphonic and a monophonic instrument, something like a reduced version of the Rev2, but different.

It would likely end up too expensive, but I have entertained the idea of a Mopho X6 with the SSI2144 filter. >:D
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: blewis on September 08, 2018, 11:59:03 AM
Rev2 Evolver... REvolver

Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: SandyS1 on September 08, 2018, 01:04:58 PM
Rev2 Evolver... REvolver
I really like that idea.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on September 08, 2018, 08:06:36 PM
Rev2 Evolver... REvolver
I really like that idea.

As do I....I just hate the name.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on September 09, 2018, 07:05:27 AM
Could be a monosynth loosely based on the P6 or OB6 voices....
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on September 09, 2018, 08:56:43 AM
Could be a monosynth loosely based on the P6 or OB6 voices....

Mmm I can't see Sequential doing a Mono synth as that market is oversaturated. What I can see happening is Four AS1 engines under one keyboard hood. So four mono synths, each with their own sequencer, patch and effect happening. Thus testing the waters with Multitimbrality.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on September 09, 2018, 07:17:20 PM
I still would like to see a collaboration between John Bowen and Dave Smith.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on September 10, 2018, 10:49:18 PM
I'd like to see Dave do a kazoo named "Sequential - Noise"... it must be polyphonic and multitimbral, and fully MIDI spec'ed, and also upgradeable with an add-on nose flute.

I'm so looking forward to seeing Dave in an introduction video for this, calling it "his greatest synth, and first to actually have a breath controller built in".
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: blewis on September 11, 2018, 09:33:21 AM
As do I....I just hate the name.

Well what the heck do you know abouting naming DSI/Sequential synths?  :) 8)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on September 11, 2018, 03:44:41 PM
As do I....I just hate the name.

Well what the heck do you know abouting naming DSI/Sequential synths?  :) 8)

;)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: megamarkd on September 11, 2018, 07:09:51 PM
I'd like to see a new eurorack module, perhaps the osc setup of the Evolver?  That'd sate that eternal cry for an Evolver revival of some sort maybe?

I'd like to see Dave do a kazoo named "Sequential - Noise"... it must be polyphonic and multitimbral.....

Isn't that called an "Harmonica"? ;) I do remember wanting a Jew's Harp in the early 90's....
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on September 11, 2018, 07:36:59 PM
As far as MPE goes...this might be an option for Sequential to look into...https://www.gearnews.com/touchkeys-brings-mpe-piano-keyboard/
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Quatschmacher on September 13, 2018, 01:44:36 PM
As far as MPE goes...this might be an option for Sequential to look into...https://www.gearnews.com/touchkeys-brings-mpe-piano-keyboard/

Or something like the sideways aftertouch triggering on this  this:

https://youtu.be/oewD_ujYBng
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on September 14, 2018, 10:48:28 AM
Yeah Synton is also another excellent choice but I do believe that’s only monophonic. I could be wrong.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sleep of Reason on September 18, 2018, 04:27:29 PM
Hope this gets announced soon, but I'm guessing it's next year's synth...
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on September 30, 2018, 07:23:53 AM
Honestly I think Sequential may go back to doing pure analog stuff. With the PX’s support by 8Dio being pushed back months now and the headache they got from the Tempest, I think Dave doesn’t want to do any more collaborations or anything outside the norm of analog again. I hope I’m wrong but if I’m not I’d like to see more VCO based stuff cause I think the P6 and OB6 still sound better than the REV2.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sleep of Reason on September 30, 2018, 11:11:00 AM
Exactly how does possible issues with collaborative work equate to the assumption of going "back to doing pure analog stuff" only? They can do some kind of next gen digital osc synth with nicer filters like the SSI2144 or even their discrete SSM2040 based filter.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on September 30, 2018, 01:01:10 PM
Exactly how does possible issues with collaborative work equate to the assumption of going "back to doing pure analog stuff" only? They can do some kind of next gen digital osc synth with nicer filters like the SSI2144 or even their discrete SSM2040 based filter.

Possibly but with Waldorf around I don’t see them doing a digital osc only synth. Maybe a new Poly Evolver with both analog and digital oscillators. I can see that and would love that.  Still.. I hope they do one more VCO based synth...likely it won’t be a Poly with Moog’s polysynth in the works but still.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on October 07, 2018, 01:05:07 AM
Honestly, I'm not sure what SCI will be doing next... only thing I know is that it is probably something that Dave has not been doing and is not giving much competition to the other devices he's made... because that seems to be the norm here... they overlap, but all synths have something unique... thus I'm not that certain an all analog discrete VCO/VCF synth is in the horizon right at the moment... OB6 and P6 covers enough ground on that.

Also, just changing something like the filter chips (Evolver replica) I do not see as the next step really... unless it has tons of new stuff that simply sets it apart.

But one thing I think that SCI should probably think more about in the future, is their FX section... it's simply too limited compared to other synths capabilities like the Quantum, One and DeepMind12 etc... they need more FX slots, more routing capabilities and better FX (more of them) to beat the competition... so even if people think they would not colaborate, I'd highly suggest SCI to do just that on the FX if they cannot deliver the quality and flexibility themselves... I'd peronaly like to see them make a deal with Valhalla DSP for example... they would be able to deliver on the FX department.

I could see a need for a degraded version of their new flagship though... one that takes focus only on sample use, discarded the digital oscillators, and maybe even cut the voicecount down to 8 to reduce cost, leaving stereo capability out... if you're a sound designer you can easily create stereo depth even if the samples are in mono... with an improved FX section it would be even more easy to do... stereo samples are cool, but absolutely not essential in any way... in fact there are advantages to using mono samples as well for sound design... especially looping of samples is a hell of a lot easier with mono samples (unless you use crossfading of course).
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on October 08, 2018, 08:34:48 PM
I can see the P12 and Mophox4 being on the chopping block next. I just have a feeling.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on October 08, 2018, 08:46:30 PM
I still have a feeling though a new Poly Evolver….not in name but in concept is next.
Two analog oscillators, two digital oscillators (Wavetables, VS waves, FM etc).
More polyphony (with a 10 voice version and 20 voice version)
Multitimbrality (Each oscillator can have it's own sequence, arpeggiator, effect and patch)
More effects (I'd like to see a Harmonizer or Reverse Delay).
XYZ pad.
Patch selection buttons like on the P6 and OB6.
And blue lights.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on October 08, 2018, 09:29:43 PM
Now that the magical $3,000 mark has been crossed, why not?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on October 08, 2018, 09:35:04 PM
Now that the magical $3,000 mark has been crossed, why not?

Might as well at this point lol
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on October 09, 2018, 06:10:32 AM
We can only imagine what effect the existence of the Moog One will have on DSI, but I do think that, in a general way, the former company has wandered into the letter's traditional territory.  I hope this doesn't discourage DSI from creating what I've long hoped they would produce - a large all-analog poly synth substantially bigger than the Prophet '08/Rev2.  I'm still waiting and hoping for this. 

I'd agree that the Prophet 12 probably will not be around for long, and that will leave a vacuum at the top, in spite of the Prophet X.  It would be a good time for a new DSI flagship.  I'd be happy to see a more reasonably-priced mega-synth, versus the One.  Personally, I would never sink such an immense amount of money into a single instrument - first, because I would never have it, and second, because I would much rather have a keyboard version/module version pair.  That alone has me always favoring DSI synthesizers and the DSI approach.

So, I hope the Moog One motivates DSI to produce a more reasonably priced large scale VCO masterpiece, if they aren't working on one already.  Say, an expanded Prophet-6.

And then there's the beautiful and magnificent Poly Evolver Keyboard - just waiting to be revived.  She still strikes me as the gem in the DSI line.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on October 09, 2018, 06:46:06 AM
Maybe a slightly expanded P-6 as a sort of 40th anniversary edition.

Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on October 09, 2018, 07:13:10 AM
Right.  The P-6 would be a natural place to start.  "That sound," but with expanded size and control.  Or a Rev2 with VCO's.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on October 09, 2018, 09:12:06 AM
Maybe a slightly expanded P-6 as a sort of 40th anniversary edition.

Hmmm and maybe with an option lower manual keybed that it can rest on. Sort of like how Crumar does it with their organs.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on October 09, 2018, 10:18:13 AM
Maybe a slightly expanded P-6 as a sort of 40th anniversary edition.

Ugh...your designs always make me salivate.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on October 09, 2018, 10:27:52 AM
Maybe a slightly expanded P-6 as a sort of 40th anniversary edition.

Ugh...your designs always make me salivate.
... an 18 voice, tri-timbral... wait for it... Prophet 18 -- in 2018 no doubt.
too gimmicky?

Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on October 09, 2018, 10:30:19 AM
Maybe a slightly expanded P-6 as a sort of 40th anniversary edition.

Ugh...your designs always make me salivate.
... an 18 voice, tri-timbral... wait for it... Prophet 18 -- in 2018 no doubt.
too gimmicky?

Go big or go home. Prophet-20.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on October 09, 2018, 10:35:25 AM
Maybe a slightly expanded P-6 as a sort of 40th anniversary edition.

Ugh...your designs always make me salivate.
... an 18 voice, tri-timbral... wait for it... Prophet 18 -- in 2018 no doubt.
too gimmicky?

Go big or go home. Prophet-20.
As long as we aren't waiting until 2020
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on October 12, 2018, 04:53:51 AM
I'd like to see a synth from SCI with a voice architecture like the one I've made a picture off here.

You could say that it could be some sort of "Evolver 2", but that's not really the point.

My initial idea was, that two simple analog oscillators was converted into digital, and then used a sources for further manipulation in a powerful per voice DSP chip. There are many options as what to do with the converted sources before being output into an analog filter and amp (still with stereo separation in the signal path), so only the imagination will be the limit here... I could very well see this DSP module being set up like choosing algorithms, and if the DSP has some built in memory, it would give lots of options for crazy algorithms.

Regarding the UI I clearly see the DSP module given a big screen with parameter navigation buttons/knobs.

What the filters should be could be discussed, but I would not mind it being the new filters from the Prophet X... point is, that digital filters could and should be easily implemented in some of the DSP algorithms as well, so it's not overly necessary to have costly analog filters after the DSP... I don't want this synth to cost the same as a MOOG ONE :)

I've only drawn out the voice architecture, but certainly there will also be the control modulation section as usual with all the LFOs and EGs etc. plus the obligatory FX sections at the end of the signal chain.

The reason for this voice architecture is that when the audio sources are converted from an analog oscillator, then their analog nature will permeate all the way down thru the digital DSP path before being converted back into analog before the analog filter and amp... all the imperfections will be kept down the line.

My initial idea was to use the sources as "accumulators" for looking up digitally stored waveforms in memory for example. using a simple ramp up waveform on an analog oscillator like this would create a digital "copy" of the analog waveform, but with all the imperfections transfered to the stored waveform... and if the waveform is changed on the analog oscillator, you'd get crazy waveshapings going on in the result...

This is but one example... many other creative uses could be made, making a huge potential in sonics.

Somehow dreaming about the DSP module of this being made open source which could potentially make this synth's potential explode, but it would probably be easier to create a fixed set of algorithms.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: SandyS1 on October 13, 2018, 02:39:45 PM
I've been messing around a Korg EX-8000, and I realize there's something I really like from their LFOs that I think are missing from other implementations--the delay feature. Just having a little delay to allow the attack portion to finish before the LFO kicks in can be really useful. I'd even be happy if that's something behind a menu like on the P12's envelope delay. Knob real estate is precious and expensive.

Speaking of envelopes, another feature that the DW/EX-8000 has are the slightly more complicated envelopes. You have that in the Moog One, too, and while I realize that most people don't bother, having the extra break point and slope parameter allows for some really interesting and more natural decay patterns--or something really odd since "natural" is rarely what I'm going for. The D-50's multi-point and time system is probably overkill, but just an extra element would be nice. I'd rate this far less useful than the delay on the LFOs, though--especially since you can get some of this effect by layering.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on October 13, 2018, 02:53:21 PM
I've been messing around a Korg EX-8000, and I realize there's something I really like from their LFOs that I think are missing from other implementations--the delay feature. Just having a little delay to allow the attack portion to finish before the LFO kicks in can be really useful. I'd even be happy if that's something behind a menu like on the P12's envelope delay. Knob real estate is precious and expensive.

Speaking of envelopes, another feature that the DW/EX-8000 has are the slightly more complicated envelopes. You have that in the Moog One, too, and while I realize that most people don't bother, having the extra break point and slope parameter allows for some really interesting and more natural decay patterns--or something really odd since "natural" is rarely what I'm going for. The D-50's multi-point and time system is probably overkill, but just an extra element would be nice. I'd rate this far less useful than the delay on the LFOs, though--especially since you can get some of this effect by layering.

This can be simulated with the modulation matrix ... just route the AUX envelope to the LFO Amount... it'll cost a slot in the matrix and an EG of course...
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: SandyS1 on October 14, 2018, 12:29:04 PM

This can be simulated with the modulation matrix ... just route the AUX envelope to the LFO Amount... it'll cost a slot in the matrix and an EG of course...

Yep. I've done that. It just seems a simple thing to add, and frees up the EG for other things. Especially on a synth with only two or even three EGs, that can be very helpful.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: SandyS1 on October 19, 2018, 02:16:25 PM
OK, so my comments are all for the one AFTER the next new one:

https://www.synthtopia.com/content/2018/10/19/sequential-prophet-xl-sneak-preview/

(Please delete if this is a faux pas.)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on November 16, 2018, 08:17:38 AM
The time has come.  I cast my vote for some strikingly similar configuration of a Prophet VS/Poly Evolver Keyboard. 
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on November 16, 2018, 10:04:42 AM
The time has come.  I cast my vote for some strikingly similar configuration of a Prophet VS/Poly Evolver Keyboard.

Hope it has a joystick! Lol
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: SandyS1 on November 16, 2018, 02:07:42 PM
The time has come.  I cast my vote for some strikingly similar configuration of a Prophet VS/Poly Evolver Keyboard.

Yeah, an 8-voice PolyEvolver/VS hybrid would be a great, characterful instrument. Especially as a module. (Ahem. :))
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on November 16, 2018, 07:24:35 PM
The time has come.  I cast my vote for some strikingly similar configuration of a Prophet VS/Poly Evolver Keyboard.

Yeah, an 8-voice PolyEvolver/VS hybrid would be a great, characterful instrument. Especially as a module. (Ahem. :))

Even a 10 voice 4 part multitimbral PolyEvolver.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Tarjeijazz on November 17, 2018, 08:35:20 AM
I got to try a poly evolver today! Now thats what i call a creative design. 4 voices is a bit on the low side in 2018 though i feel!
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sleep of Reason on November 17, 2018, 01:27:58 PM
Yeah, an 8-voice PolyEvolver/VS hybrid would be a great, characterful instrument. Especially as a module. (Ahem. :))

Sign me up for a module version so long as it has SSM-based filters.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on December 21, 2018, 08:08:31 PM
I'm kinda hoping for a big brother to the OB-6.  Otherwise I may piece together my own "OB-12" from a keyboard and module. But I would rather have it in one self contained unit -- I know that is a long shot, but hey, this thread is usually more pipe dream than prediction.
 :)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on December 21, 2018, 10:13:43 PM
I'm kinda hoping for a big brother to the OB-6.  Otherwise I may piece together my own "OB-12" from a keyboard and module. But I would rather have it in one self contained unit -- I know that is a long shot, but hey, this thread is usually more pipe dream than prediction.
 :)

I think with the UBXa from Behringer coming out and with the uncertainty of Tom Oberhiem doing any more musical instruments it would be interesting to see if Dave creates a separate department in Sequential and does Tom Oberhiem gear. It’s unlikely but I could see a big brother to the P6 down the road. I don’t think Sequential is going to be doing any VCO based synths for a while with the Moog One coming out, I think they are interested in doing different forms of synthesis right now, especially ones that seem scarce in the current synth market.....hmm... Prophet FM?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on December 22, 2018, 02:29:08 AM
16 voice mono/8 voice stereo dual timbral upgrade of the P12 is what I'm hoping for at the moment. With an FPGA front-end to eliminate aliasing like on the PEAK. SSM filters plus analog HiPass filter per voice. Put an enhanced FX engine at the end of the chain as well.

I could speculate all the time about what it should include in synthesis, but as long as it has VA, FM, Wavetable and Formant synthesis I'd be happy...

I'd just like to see the P12 upped to the current hardware and design specs that DSI has put in their newer creations before I decide on getting a Prophet 12.

.....

With that said, there is something I'd like to see made one day, though it'll probably never happen... a kind of "mellotron like" sampler that behave in a very special way. I do not think I've seen anything do this, but here goes:

Every key on the keyboard should be it's own 48KHz, 16bit playback device... it should be able to play back a single looped sample at this exact rate and bit depth... no need to even pitch shift anything... just a lot of simple 44.1Khz 16bit sampleloop playback devices (see them a bit like a lot of looped tapes like in the Mellotron).

Now, an instrument is then build up of a looped sample for each of these keys... whenever you hit a key, the VCA for that sample will open and close as per a VCA envelope as usual, gating the sample.

The samples should be able to either retrigger on a gate, or simply be free running, the latter being VERY IMPORTANT since this will eliminate any static transients normally associated with samplers... the looped samples just simply needs to be carefully created to not have more movement going on in them, than they will sound good when gated in free running mode.

This in essence means that you would have a polyphony of 128 voices, but each key can only be triggered in mono... this has it's own charm all by itself.

It also means though, that VCAs would have to be digital, and not analog ones.... if any filter is to be added to each key as well, these should also be digital ones.. .the reason is obvious; you'd need 128 analog VCFs and VCAs if not... anything that should be per key, must be done digitally, or the cost and size would blow out of proportion. But this is not at all that bad since the samples can have all the analog character you could put into them anyway, and the quality would be pristine on ALL KEYS because they do no pitch transposition... so no aliasing.

Of course there should be the usual depth of the synth engine with modulation matrix for the digital VCA/VCF stuff.

I'd also like to see a CHARACTER section for each key giving you sampl emanipulation tools like bit crush, sample rate reduction and other "per sample based" tricks.

But we all know that we want something analog, at least something hybrid... and this is where I'd like for DSI to try something different... put in an ANALOG effects engine after the digital sample playback engine instead to warm up the digital part:

A real stereo analog BBD delay with feedback that will allow you to choose from different modulation FX like Chorus/Flanger/Phaser/Stringer Ensemble/Delay

A real stereo analog distortion/Waveshaper

A real stereo analog ring modulator

A real stereo analog filter (LP, HP and BP)

and in the end, the usual digital FX engine focusing on Delays and Reverbs

... if such a thing was available, it would make it on my top priority list for sure...

Samples could be imported by a simple SD card slot having folders that include all 128 looped samples for an instrument. There would not even be any need to create software for any mapping, as each sample name could just follow a simple naming structure, and editing the samples you can find lots of third party software for.

The trick is in the preparation of the samples... but the sheer amount of possibilities are staggering when you think about it... you could have a choir sample looped on all keys (if too many keys because of the human pitch range, keys can simply be left out) making it very realistic... you could sample any vintage synth or other on every key and have it play back perfectly without any chipmunk effects... you could put acoustic instrument's sustained notes in giving you a natural formant feel all over the keys... and even synthetically generated complex waveforms that retain formants or the like for every key.

Such a synth would be one hell of a PAD machine... it would be a dream synth for ambient genres for sure.


actually some of this could also be simulated on the Prophet X, if they just made a single feature update that would allow you to start playback of a sample at a random spot in the sample at each keypress... a rather simple feature addition really... it is not exactly like a free running sample of course, but it would still eliminate tha static feel of a retriggered sample...
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sleep of Reason on December 22, 2018, 06:23:15 AM
16 voice mono/8 voice stereo dual timbral upgrade of the P12 is what I'm hoping for at the moment. With an FPGA front-end to eliminate aliasing like on the PEAK. SSM filters plus analog HiPass filter per voice. Put an enhanced FX engine at the end of the chain as well.

It's pretty silly going around making bold claims about what Sequential is likely or unlikely to do, but if I had to put my money on it, that's what I'd bet on. I guess I'm a bit biased though as that's what I'd be most interested in.   
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on December 22, 2018, 09:21:50 AM
16 voice mono/8 voice stereo dual timbral upgrade of the P12 is what I'm hoping for at the moment. With an FPGA front-end to eliminate aliasing like on the PEAK. SSM filters plus analog HiPass filter per voice. Put an enhanced FX engine at the end of the chain as well.

It's pretty silly going around making bold claims about what Sequential is likely or unlikely to do, but if I had to put my money on it, that's what I'd bet on. I guess I'm a bit biased though as that's what I'd be most interested in.

Maybe a 10 voice stereo/20 Voice Mono.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on December 22, 2018, 09:35:09 AM
The main reason I want FPGA is because even though P12 does sound nice when you just use simple VA style programing, then when you start to introduce FM or other audio rate modulation you will start to hear it's digital and harsh 11Khz bandlimit... it simply cannot do it with enough quality when you do rough audio rate modulations... PEAK gets around this because they run the modulation engine inside the FPGA at insanely high speed compared to normal 48KHz DSP chips.

With PEAK and also the coming Waldorf Phoenix synth, more and more high-end digital synths will begin to emerge using FPGA synthesis, so Sequential can just as well start to get it, or get left behind...
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on December 22, 2018, 10:12:05 AM
With PEAK and also the coming Waldorf Phoenix synth, more and more high-end digital synths will begin to emerge using FPGA synthesis, so Sequential can just as well start to get it, or get left behind...
What is this “new Waldorf Phoenix synth” of which you speak?  Is this different from the Kyra?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on December 22, 2018, 10:23:08 AM
With PEAK and also the coming Waldorf Phoenix synth, more and more high-end digital synths will begin to emerge using FPGA synthesis, so Sequential can just as well start to get it, or get left behind...
What is this “new Waldorf Phoenix synth” of which you speak?  Is this different from the Kyra?

Erm... I believe it was renamed to KYRA by Waldorf, but it is the same synth as far as I recall? ... or was it called "Valkyrie"?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on December 22, 2018, 10:38:49 AM
With PEAK and also the coming Waldorf Phoenix synth, more and more high-end digital synths will begin to emerge using FPGA synthesis, so Sequential can just as well start to get it, or get left behind...
What is this “new Waldorf Phoenix synth” of which you speak?  Is this different from the Kyra?

Erm... I believe it was renamed to KYRA by Waldorf, but it is the same synth as far as I recall? ... or was it called "Valkyrie"?
Yes, the original British developer called it the Valkyrie.   
I keep wanting to think of it as the Virus 3, but somehow I think the Virus TI2 might still be preferable to this thing.  I haven’t been overly impressed by what’s been described so far — I probably missed something.  I should go back and re-watch those videos.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on December 22, 2018, 11:03:48 AM
With PEAK and also the coming Waldorf Phoenix synth, more and more high-end digital synths will begin to emerge using FPGA synthesis, so Sequential can just as well start to get it, or get left behind...
What is this “new Waldorf Phoenix synth” of which you speak?  Is this different from the Kyra?

Erm... I believe it was renamed to KYRA by Waldorf, but it is the same synth as far as I recall? ... or was it called "Valkyrie"?
Yes, the original British developer called it the Valkyrie.   
I keep wanting to think of it as the Virus 3, but somehow I think the Virus TI2 might still be preferable to this thing.  I haven’t been overly impressed by what’s been described so far — I probably missed something.  I should go back and re-watch those videos.

As far as I remember, it was pretty well spec'ed... not that it had anything new, it just had a hell of a lot of what already is, and at FPGA speed meaning a lot better sound quality... especially with heavy audio rate modulations... but I still have to see further specs etc. before that one will catch my interest... especially some sound examples... in fact i prefer at least analog or hybrid devices, so I'm not sure I'll ever get this, no matter how good it is...
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: blewis on December 22, 2018, 03:07:52 PM
But why not go head to head with Moog with a 2 VCO/2 digital OSC, Pro2 filter and sequencer, 4 LFO synth for $4000-4500 8 voice and $6000-6500 16 voice?

Sequential Two.  :o Electric Boogaloo  :o  :o

They have all that technology.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on December 22, 2018, 03:17:30 PM
Sequential Two.  :o Electric Boogaloo  :o :o

They have all that technology.
They’d also have my money.
Especially if they did it with stereo filters.


Anyone know if Dave & Crew will be at NAMM?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on December 22, 2018, 05:34:53 PM
But why not go head to head with Moog with a 2 VCO/2 digital OSC, Pro2 filter and sequencer, 4 LFO synth for $4000-4500 8 voice and $6000-6500 16 voice?

That would be a reversal of the DSI/Sequential modus operandi.  It would then be obvious that Dave was merely responding to Moog.  Dave seems, rather, to do his own thing and often lead the way.  If there's a discernible direction he is following and has been for years, I think he should continue in it.  It's original and produces outstanding instruments, such as the Prophet 12.  Yes, competition is an inescapable factor, but I think the best competition here is for Sequential to master it's corner of the synthesizer industry.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: blewis on December 22, 2018, 05:41:42 PM
But why not go head to head with Moog with a 2 VCO/2 digital OSC, Pro2 filter and sequencer, 4 LFO synth for $4000-4500 8 voice and $6000-6500 16 voice?

It would then be obvious that Dave was merely responding to Moog. 

It would look like it now, yes. But this was a request from DSI owners from the moment the Pro2 was made.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on December 25, 2018, 07:13:02 PM
Anyone know if Dave & Crew will be at NAMM this year?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on December 25, 2018, 08:48:26 PM
Anyone know if Dave & Crew will be at NAMM this year?

I somehow doubt it. I know NAMM is usually based around musical instrument distributors but it does offer a big platform for coverage on social media. I was talking to a few people when the Prophet X was announced and a lot of them had no idea about it....and in some cases still don't.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on December 26, 2018, 12:34:36 PM
Anyone know if Dave & Crew will be at NAMM this year?

Didn't they skip it last year?  Perhaps they've moved on.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on December 26, 2018, 12:55:38 PM
Anyone know if Dave & Crew will be at NAMM this year?

Didn't they skip it last year?  Perhaps they've moved on.
I'm pretty sure that you're right (about them skipping NAMM last year); however, they have released new products at NAMM in the past, so....
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on December 26, 2018, 01:19:11 PM
It hasn't been long since the PX and PXL were released, so it would be remarkable if Sequential already had another instrument ready to go. 

I wonder if the Prophet 12 will be replaced next.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on December 26, 2018, 01:43:58 PM
I wonder if the Prophet 12 will be replaced next.
That would seem logical. In the past, hasn’t there been very little time between the announcement of a discontinued model and announcement of a newer one?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on December 26, 2018, 01:56:13 PM
I wonder if the Prophet 12 will be replaced next.
That would seem logical. In the past, hasn’t there been very little time between the announcement of a discontinued model and announcement of a newer one?

It will... i can feel it somehow... but you can be certain, that the P12 will have something, that some would want, that the new one will not have... just like many still miss some of the Evolver features in the P12.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on December 26, 2018, 03:08:15 PM
I wonder if the Prophet 12 will be replaced next.
That would seem logical. In the past, hasn’t there been very little time between the announcement of a discontinued model and announcement of a newer one?

It will... i can feel it somehow... but you can be certain, that the P12 will have something, that some would want, that the new one will not have... just like many still miss some of the Evolver features in the P12.

I would find it very difficult to see how the P12 could be preferred over an updated version. No digital effects, no sequencer...nah I think this new instrument is going to blow both the Poly Evolver and P12 out of the water. Now what would remain to be seen...err...heard rather, is if it will blow something like the Peak out of the water.

It would be cool to see John Bowen and Dave collaborate for this one. I know I know two collaborations in a row but John has been by Dave’s side during the early days of the Prophet 5 and helped with the Prophet VS, it would be nice to see Bowen’s idea for the front end of the Solaris (with an insane amount of oscillator and Wavetable options) going through the Pro 2s dual analog filter concept (an SSM based filter and state variable SEM based filter). Add the VS/Solaris joy stick and a MPE supported ribbon controller, maybe 4 part multitimbrality, 10 Voice polyphony with an expansion card to 20 voices and you would blow almost everything else on the market out of the water.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on December 26, 2018, 04:15:17 PM
I wonder if the Prophet 12 will be replaced next.
That would seem logical. In the past, hasn’t there been very little time between the announcement of a discontinued model and announcement of a newer one?

It will... i can feel it somehow... but you can be certain, that the P12 will have something, that some would want, that the new one will not have... just like many still miss some of the Evolver features in the P12.

I would find it very difficult to see how the P12 could be preferred over an updated version. No digital effects, no sequencer...nah I think this new instrument is going to blow both the Poly Evolver and P12 out of the water. Now what would remain to be seen...err...heard rather, is if it will blow something like the Peak out of the water.

It would be cool to see John Bowen and Dave collaborate for this one. I know I know two collaborations in a row but John has been by Dave’s side during the early days of the Prophet 5 and helped with the Prophet VS, it would be nice to see Bowen’s idea for the front end of the Solaris (with an insane amount of oscillator and Wavetable options) going through the Pro 2s dual analog filter concept (an SSM based filter and state variable SEM based filter). Add the VS/Solaris joy stick and a MPE supported ribbon controller, maybe 4 part multitimbrality, 10 Voice polyphony with an expansion card to 20 voices and you would blow almost everything else on the market out of the water.

Point was, that the P12 WAS an updated Evolver... still the Evolver has some technical advantages to the P12, and have a different character as well... so even if the replacement will outperform the P12 on paper, there is no guarantee it will in practice... I'm sure there will be features from the P12 missing on a replacement, which, for some, will be more than enough to have both ;)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on December 26, 2018, 08:23:09 PM
I could never buy the claim that the P12 is an updated Poly Evolver.  I used the two instruments side-by-side and found them to belong to totally different categories.  One could not replace the other in a meaningful way.  Instead, I thought they nicely complimented each other.  No, I'm still waiting for the new Poly Evolver. 
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on December 27, 2018, 01:00:24 AM
I could never buy the claim that the P12 is an updated Poly Evolver.  I used the two instruments side-by-side and found them to belong to totally different categories.  One could not replace the other in a meaningful way.  Instead, I thought they nicely complimented each other.  No, I'm still waiting for the new Poly Evolver.

But still, that is what replies have been from DSI when the topic of a new Evolver have been up... That is why I do not believe that any new digital front end synth to replace the P12 will make the P12 redundant in any way...I still crave some features from the Evolver that only it can do... Mixed oscillators, true stereo path, user waveforms and the sequencers.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Quatschmacher on December 27, 2018, 02:45:18 AM
Part of me is hoping that, since Tom has wound up his own production, there might be some further Oberheim/Sequential collaboration.

I’m in that slightly annoying position where I’ve saved up for my first poly and don’t know whether to go for something that’s already out there or wait and see what’s around the corner.

I wasn’t taken with the P12 (neither the filter, the feel of the keybed nor the lack of sequencer/effects appealed to me), which is a shame as other aspects were very appealing (4 oscillators, linear FM, 5 octave keyboard, extra performance sliders, deep mod matrix).

Of the remainder it’s between the P6, OB-6 and Rev 2 and I like them all for different reasons. I’d rather have 5 octaves but the P6 and OB-6 sound so good. I also connected really quickly with these two and got into making good sounds fast. The Oberheim filter is lovely. I also really like the idea of having a live panel mode. Dual effects is a welcome bonus too. I’m torn, on the one hand, the immediacy of the P6/OB-6 means I’m more likely to come up with musical ideas. The Rev 2 I’d probably spend much more time programming (which I’d also enjoy).
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on December 27, 2018, 05:07:52 AM
I could never buy the claim that the P12 is an updated Poly Evolver.  I used the two instruments side-by-side and found them to belong to totally different categories.  One could not replace the other in a meaningful way.  Instead, I thought they nicely complimented each other.  No, I'm still waiting for the new Poly Evolver.

But still, that is what replies have been from DSI when the topic of a new Evolver have been up...

IIRC, at NAMM 2013 the P12 was announced as a product that combines what were considered the best parts of the Evolver and those of the Prophet '08, which makes more sense in my opinion. Out came a synth that was as different from the Prophet '08 as it was from the Evolver.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on December 27, 2018, 05:15:20 AM
I could never buy the claim that the P12 is an updated Poly Evolver.  I used the two instruments side-by-side and found them to belong to totally different categories.  One could not replace the other in a meaningful way.  Instead, I thought they nicely complimented each other.  No, I'm still waiting for the new Poly Evolver.

But still, that is what replies have been from DSI when the topic of a new Evolver have been up...

IIRC, at NAMM 2013 the P12 was announced as a product that combines what were considered the best parts of the Evolver and those of the Prophet '08, which makes more sense in my opinion. Out came a synth that was as different from the Prophet '08 as it was from the Evolver.

Yes... and thus, a new replacement for the P12 will most likely sport the same philosophy... so I bet people will still want the P12, even if the replacement is introduced...
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on December 27, 2018, 07:13:02 AM
I could never buy the claim that the P12 is an updated Poly Evolver.  I used the two instruments side-by-side and found them to belong to totally different categories.  One could not replace the other in a meaningful way.  Instead, I thought they nicely complimented each other.  No, I'm still waiting for the new Poly Evolver.

But still, that is what replies have been from DSI when the topic of a new Evolver have been up...

IIRC, at NAMM 2013 the P12 was announced as a product that combines what were considered the best parts of the Evolver and those of the Prophet '08, which makes more sense in my opinion. Out came a synth that was as different from the Prophet '08 as it was from the Evolver.

Yes... and thus, a new replacement for the P12 will most likely sport the same philosophy... so I bet people will still want the P12, even if the replacement is introduced...

Certainly. Given that philosophy, though, I also wouldn't expect a direct follow-up if any. Sequential never really did release any replacements or upgraded versions with the exception of the Rev2. I don't think we'll see the same happening with the Prophet 12 or any other already released synth, especially if you take into account that – at least from nowadays perspective – the Prophet X took over the role of the Prophet 12 as a flagship synth.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on December 27, 2018, 08:02:41 AM
I could never buy the claim that the P12 is an updated Poly Evolver.  I used the two instruments side-by-side and found them to belong to totally different categories.  One could not replace the other in a meaningful way.  Instead, I thought they nicely complimented each other.  No, I'm still waiting for the new Poly Evolver.

But still, that is what replies have been from DSI when the topic of a new Evolver have been up... That is why I do not believe that any new digital front end synth to replace the P12 will make the P12 redundant in any way...I still crave some features from the Evolver that only it can do... Mixed oscillators, true stereo path, user waveforms and the sequencers.

I know, I know.  It's been the standard line around here that the P12 is the new Poly Evolver.  Sorry, but not by a mile.  Without the exact same panned frothy digital oscillators and even the extremely long envelope times, there's little sense in making the claim.  To do so was to mischaracterize the instrument and mislead the interested synthesist.  To me, the P12 was a whole new synthesizer - brilliant in its own right, but altogether new and distinct from the other DSI/Sequential instruments.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on December 27, 2018, 08:12:21 AM
I could never buy the claim that the P12 is an updated Poly Evolver.  I used the two instruments side-by-side and found them to belong to totally different categories.  One could not replace the other in a meaningful way.  Instead, I thought they nicely complimented each other.  No, I'm still waiting for the new Poly Evolver.

But still, that is what replies have been from DSI when the topic of a new Evolver have been up...

IIRC, at NAMM 2013 the P12 was announced as a product that combines what were considered the best parts of the Evolver and those of the Prophet '08, which makes more sense in my opinion. Out came a synth that was as different from the Prophet '08 as it was from the Evolver.

Yes, that makes a bit more sense as a reference point...and yet, it's still not how I would have described the instrument.  The three synthesizers - the Poly Evolver Keyboard, Prophet '08, and Prophet 12 - would make a superb ensemble because each is substantially distinct from the others and in no way resembles the other's voices.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on December 27, 2018, 08:39:45 AM
I could never buy the claim that the P12 is an updated Poly Evolver.  I used the two instruments side-by-side and found them to belong to totally different categories.  One could not replace the other in a meaningful way.  Instead, I thought they nicely complimented each other.  No, I'm still waiting for the new Poly Evolver.

But still, that is what replies have been from DSI when the topic of a new Evolver have been up...

IIRC, at NAMM 2013 the P12 was announced as a product that combines what were considered the best parts of the Evolver and those of the Prophet '08, which makes more sense in my opinion. Out came a synth that was as different from the Prophet '08 as it was from the Evolver.

Yes, that makes a bit more sense as a reference point...and yet, it's still not how I would have described the instrument.  The three synthesizers - the Poly Evolver Keyboard, Prophet '08, and Prophet 12 - would make a superb ensemble because each is substantially distinct from the others and in no way resembles the other's voices.

That's true. And I think it's realistic to expect the next instrument to be just as complementary. After all, the Prophet X followed the same approach. It's not a replacement for any of these synths, but it incorporated certain elements from older synhs (hybrid oscillator section, stereo filters, doubled FX from the Rev2, etc.) while adding the sample playback.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on December 27, 2018, 10:07:34 AM
I could never buy the claim that the P12 is an updated Poly Evolver.  I used the two instruments side-by-side and found them to belong to totally different categories.  One could not replace the other in a meaningful way.  Instead, I thought they nicely complimented each other.  No, I'm still waiting for the new Poly Evolver.

But still, that is what replies have been from DSI when the topic of a new Evolver have been up...

IIRC, at NAMM 2013 the P12 was announced as a product that combines what were considered the best parts of the Evolver and those of the Prophet '08, which makes more sense in my opinion. Out came a synth that was as different from the Prophet '08 as it was from the Evolver.

Yes... and thus, a new replacement for the P12 will most likely sport the same philosophy... so I bet people will still want the P12, even if the replacement is introduced...

Certainly. Given that philosophy, though, I also wouldn't expect a direct follow-up if any. Sequential never really did release any replacements or upgraded versions with the exception of the Rev2. I don't think we'll see the same happening with the Prophet 12 or any other already released synth, especially if you take into account that – at least from nowadays perspective – the Prophet X took over the role of the Prophet 12 as a flagship synth.

I really cannot see the Prophet X as taking the place of the Prophet 12... the digital side has been drastically reduced... waveforms are gone, the FM part is "broken", it lacks two of the oscillators, has no HiPass filter per voice (analog)... there are just so many things that was not ported over... this is also why I'm probably not going to wait and see what they come up with next time because I want a Prophet 12 next... no matter what.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on December 27, 2018, 10:25:58 AM
I really cannot see the Prophet X as taking the place of the Prophet 12... the digital side has been drastically reduced... waveforms are gone, the FM part is "broken", it lacks two of the oscillators, has no HiPass filter per voice (analog)... there are just so many things that was not ported over... this is also why I'm probably not going to wait and see what they come up with next time because I want a Prophet 12 next... no matter what.

I didn't mean functionally, but in terms of being Sequential's new flagship synth. First was the PEK, then the Prophet 12, now the Prophet X. Each one is different of course.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: proteus-ix on December 27, 2018, 10:43:00 AM
Point was, that the P12 WAS an updated Evolver...

How do you figure this?  They have pretty different architectures, oscillators, voice counts etc... it's pretty hard to reproduce either one with the other, when you are working towards what they are best at.

Seems more accurate to say the P12 was a new synth that took some inspiration from the Evolver line, but that had it's own DNA from the start, no?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: proteus-ix on December 27, 2018, 10:45:44 AM
First was the PEK, then the Prophet 12, now the Prophet X. Each one is different of course.

Crap.  When you put it like that, I guess I *WILL* have to get a Prophet X someday.  I wouldn't want to invite discontinuity.  ;D
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on December 27, 2018, 11:37:34 AM
You guys are dashing my hopes for a successor / Big Brother to the OB-6....
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on December 27, 2018, 04:37:29 PM
Seems more accurate to say the P12 was a new synth that took some inspiration from the Evolver line, but that had it's own DNA from the start, no?

Absolutely.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on December 27, 2018, 04:40:09 PM
You guys are dashing my hopes for a successor / Big Brother to the OB-6....

Considering the situation, I wouldn't be surprised if there was yet another Oberheim-ish project of a larger sort at Sequential.  I would also be interested in such an instrument.  I've long been a closet Oberheim guy.  My intention had been to remain with Sequential, but also to add an Oberheim instrument or two.  I've always thought their respective sounds wonderfully complimented each other, like sonic brothers.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: megamarkd on December 27, 2018, 05:42:34 PM
...I still crave some features from the Evolver that only it can do... Mixed oscillators, true stereo path, user waveforms and the sequencers.

I would like a module that has the four Evolver oscillators, but with a a sub-oscillator and a method to upload user waves.  Inputs for the various modulation destinations that are on the original and the slop function.  The rest of the Evolver is doable using other modules.  That would make me happy.  I know that I could pull-off the digital waves with other modules but it's the Osc FM combined with stepping through the waves on the Evolver that sets that it aside from regular digital wave based oscillator blocks.  Having that in the Eurorack format would be far more flexible than using an Evolver along side of a modular synth.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on December 28, 2018, 01:41:05 AM
I'll not be foolish and hope for a revised Evolver... i do not believe it will happen, and thus, when I have the money, and the opportunity, I'll simply just get a second hand PEK... problem solved. i actually stopped guessing at what Sequential would be doing next because it really serves no current purpose, other than the dreaming away.

I have an interest in anything hybrid/analog with a deep synthesis engine these days... thus Evolver, Prophet X and Prophet 12 are all on my wish list along with the Waldorf Quantum ... Prophet 6 or OB-6, though probably very well sounding synths, simply will not give me what I want when it comes to the synth engine... it's not deep enough, not enough modulation capabilities. and on top of these requirements, the synths must also be with stereo outputs. I need to be able to modulate each voices panning as a minimum, so no mono-output synths will cut it either.

luckily, that does not leave that many available synths, but my wallet will thank me for that (if we forget about the Prophet 12 and Quantum that is...  ::) )
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: megamarkd on December 28, 2018, 05:03:43 PM
i actually stopped guessing at what Sequential would be doing next because it really serves no current purpose, other than the dreaming away.

Yeah, I've noticed this thread does tend to be a list of dreams as much as it is a prediction thread.  If I am honest, I'd like to see all of the smaller companies just take a break from releasing a flagship every year and do something smaller.  Sequential have trimmed down their line to 'boards mostly, which does reflect a market they are targeting, but also means a roomful of key for anyone hooked on Dave & Co.  I understand that once a knobbox gets to a certain stage, it may as well have keys on it, but still yearn for an expander-style synth that can address all the finer details.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on December 28, 2018, 07:28:04 PM
Ditto.  I was a great fan of DSI's earlier days when their line-up of instruments allowed you opportunities to gradually build an instrument by adding voices and such.  As in Evolver Desktop, Mopho Desktop, Tetra, Evolve Rack, etc., all of which I've owned.  The Mopho x4 is the last fading trace of those days.  Back then, you didn't have to empty your bank account every time you made a purchase.  Since those little modules were retired, I've had a difficult time buying anything at all from my favorite synthesizer company.

Today I sold one of my Prophet '08 keyboards in an effort to finance a Rev2, and I still don't have enough money for it.  It would be a very happy matter for some of us if DSI would again offer a broader range of instrument sizes and prices. 
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on December 28, 2018, 10:00:32 PM
I’d like to see an analog vocoder.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on December 29, 2018, 03:00:47 AM
Ditto.  I was a great fan of DSI's earlier days when their line-up of instruments allowed you opportunities to gradually build an instrument by adding voices and such.  As in Evolver Desktop, Mopho Desktop, Tetra, Evolve Rack, etc., all of which I've owned.  The Mopho x4 is the last fading trace of those days.  Back then, you didn't have to empty your bank account every time you made a purchase.  Since those little modules were retired, I've had a difficult time buying anything at all from my favorite synthesizer company.

Today I sold one of my Prophet '08 keyboards in an effort to finance a Rev2, and I still don't have enough money for it.  It would be a very happy matter for some of us if DSI would again offer a broader range of instrument sizes and prices.

I see the trend here for creating bigger and more expensive devices... the X being the most expensive thus far... since the Prophet 12, price just seems to have gone up slowly... and I bet that any new synth to replace the Prophet 12, will be in the Prophet X price range... this may be due to the fact that people seem to want more and more analog voices... we're now at 16 voices as a kind of standard... it's only a matter of time until we end at 32 voice, and a price to match that... I'm not sure how far they can elevate the prices before people start to drop the thought of buying, but seeing how many obviosuly want a MOOG ONE even if it cost twice that of a Prophet X I can only doubt...

I too would have liked to see a trend like with the REV2... start out at 8 voices, and then add modules with 8 more until you are satisfied... I really liked that idea... not everyone have discipline enough to wait 6 months to be able to afford a Prophet X...
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: jok3r on December 29, 2018, 02:33:20 PM
I would like to see a new hybrid synth like the Prophet 12, but based on FPGAs like the PEAK.

I love the sound of my PEAK very much and the recent update made it an even more fantastic synth. Someone said he would buy 3 PEAKs and a good controller keyboard instead of buying a Moog One... and I can absolutely support that. The Moog sounds very good to me... but when it comes to bang for the buck I would prefer the mentioned 3-PEAK setup.

Back to topic. Even if I like my PEAK very much, I like the UI from DSI synth more. If I compare the PEAK to my Rev2 I must say there is much less menu diving on the Rev2 and dialing in modulations with the src and dest buttons is a far more quick workflow than scrolling through everything in the mod menue on the PEAK. I was very interested in the P12 also, but for my personal taste of sound it could not be compared to the PEAK and I didn't like the feel of the keys.

So basically I hope for a P12 Mk2 with following updates:
* more voices
* bigger mod matrix
* 2 effects per layer
* keybed of Rev2 or P6
* based on FPGA technology
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on December 29, 2018, 04:20:52 PM
Hopefully the next offering might bring multitimbrality to Sequential’s catalogue. Dave did say they were looking into it.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: proteus-ix on January 10, 2019, 10:47:05 AM
I was a great fan of DSI's earlier days... Back then, you didn't have to empty your bank account every time you made a purchase.

 It would be a very happy matter for some of us if DSI would again offer a broader range of instrument sizes and prices.

But the market has changed a lot since then.  Software has gotten a lot more competitive sound-wise, and arguably superior in some ways interface-wise (especially when it also maps to a hardware controller ala Omnisphere), the pricing low end of analog/physical has been lowered even further by Korg, Roland, and Behringer who have economies of scale DSI / Sequential will never compete with, the rise of modular has taken dollars away on the upper end, etc etc.

I think Dave HAS to only make high-end stuff now, to have a compelling enough offering that leverages DSI / Sequential's  unique strengths and avoids the danger of going head-to-head against the strengths of the giant vendors.

For example the Mopho x4 is a far superior synth IMO to the DM6, but the DM6 is more popular and makes more money for Behringer than the Mopho x4 did for DSI because the DM6 has more voices, more modulations, great effects and is still cheaper.  Nevermind the cheaper build quality, inferior sound etc.  The fact is for a lot of people, the DM6 is "good enough" in those areas, and has "MOAR FEATURES".

So Dave has to build things that Behringer, Korg, Roland et al. never would, even if they theoretically could.

Like the PX.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 10, 2019, 12:07:11 PM
Yes, I know, I know.  The market has changed and Sequential has had to adapt to it.  But musical needs are more of a constant. 

I'm 100% in favor of Sequential building large instruments and always have been.  I'm hoping they'll follow up the Prophet 12 with something comparable.  Still, smaller instruments/modules can be a key element in building a large musical system.  Modules are essential in my own set up, especially in the bass area.   

I'm only dreaming, perhaps, but I do wish DSI would create a full-sized four-oscillator polyphonic synthesizer primarily with just the essentials.  I see companies expanding their instruments in various directions, adding all sorts of features, but never in the direction of multiple oscillators.  I'd love to have a six-oscillator poly synth, but how likely is it that we'll ever see such an instrument?

The Prophet Rev2 is great, but how about something more powerful...and reasonably priced?  Give me a six-oscillator twelve-voice DCO synth with long envelope times, in both keyboard and module versions, and I'll be permanently content.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: proteus-ix on January 11, 2019, 07:45:23 AM
But musical needs are more of a constant. 

I don't know that they entirely are that constant.  To some degree, in terms of instrumentation where you'll want *something* to fill in each register, then sure.  But very, very few people play keys these days like most people did in the 70s or 80s - musicianship has shifted away from playing to composing, and people just don't have the chops that players did back in the day.  The music is also different, and styles often shift and develop with new technical possibilities - ie dubstep was largely enabled by the easy to program step-envelopes of Massive and other softsynths.  And while those sounds are usually filling the bass/lead functions or sometimes chords/pads, it would have been either extremely difficult if not impossible to program those on older systems, so a designer has to either keep those in mind or risk not giving the market a design it wants to buy.  Obviously the retro trend of the last 5-10 years is helping sustain the older, "simpler" designs of hardware vs software, but that will cycle back out soon enough, and designers have to look to where the ball is going as much as where it is now, or else wind up upside down on their investment in a product no one really wants anymore.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 11, 2019, 02:20:54 PM
I did qualify my statement with the word "more."

I would agree with your comments, but they only support one of my constant points: an excessive dependence on technology has badly impacted music performance and composition.  Most folks here will disagree with me, I realize.  I'm obviouslly expressing an opinion, and one from the angle of a very different approach to both music and synthesis. 

The obsession with stuff, with as much and as many gadgets as one can afford or fit in one's studio, has had its toll on music.  Many people make music based on how many pieces of equipment they can squeeze into a song.  An additional effect of this is an exaggerated emphasis on rhythm and beat.  I would call it slavish, lacking all free rhythm to breathe.

It is possible to maintain a musicality without giving in to the obsession with equipment.  One doesn't have to follow the mob or swim with the rest of the fish. 

I'm not sure which drives which - whether it's merchandise or musicians that leads the way.  I'm inclined to believe the former.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sleep of Reason on January 11, 2019, 03:02:49 PM
But very, very few people play keys these days like most people did in the 70s or 80s - musicianship has shifted away from playing to composing, and people just don't have the chops that players did back in the day.

A few minutes of searching on Youtube would say otherwise. There's plenty of channels of kids who live a life of one-upmanship. Popular music on the other hand has certainly taken a dive, but there's still plenty of bands that display an extreme level of musicianship. It's just easy these days for the average Joe to make music as anyone with a laptop can pretty much produce a track. Meaning it's a much broader field these days and much harder to break through as well. I'm sure anyone from the 18th century would say even the music that you're referring to has been immensely simplified. At the end of the day, it's all about striking an emotion with the listener and very little else matters.

To get back on track, I however agree that Sequential's main niche in the market is those who still seek excellence in their instruments.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 11, 2019, 03:11:33 PM
It's just easy these days for the average Joe to make music as anyone with a laptop can pretty much produce a track.

Yes, that's true, especially with YouTube.  It's easy to appear like a star for a video, with very little musical ability but all the right equipment, as well as some camera ability.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 11, 2019, 04:17:06 PM
It's just easy these days for the average Joe to make music as anyone with a laptop can pretty much produce a track.

Yes, that's true, especially with YouTube.  It's easy to appear like a star for a video, with very little musical ability but the right equipment.

Haha that would be me!
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 11, 2019, 04:20:29 PM
Actually I wouldn’t mind seeing more analog paraphonic synths or at least somehow have a mode or switch that turns a synth from Polyphonic to paraphonic. It really does have a unique sound to it.

Has Sequential ever had a vocoder for any of their synths? Past or present? Nothing I can recall. That might be a fun feature as well.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 11, 2019, 04:20:49 PM
It's just easy these days for the average Joe to make music as anyone with a laptop can pretty much produce a track.

Yes, that's true, especially with YouTube.  It's easy to appear like a star for a video, with very little musical ability but the right equipment.

Haha that would be me!

I wouldn't say so.  Your videos don't seem at all vain or ostentatious to me, but to the point. 
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 11, 2019, 04:33:00 PM
It's just easy these days for the average Joe to make music as anyone with a laptop can pretty much produce a track.

Yes, that's true, especially with YouTube.  It's easy to appear like a star for a video, with very little musical ability but the right equipment.

Haha that would be me!

I wouldn't say so.  Your videos don't seem at all vain or ostentatious to me.

I appreciate that. I’m just saying I have very little musical ability but the right equipment and a good ear for composition. I was thinking of going back to school to study music theory and composition but I found that in some cases it results in one’s work becoming more formulated. Not in all cases but I was watching an interview with composer Christopher Young and he said a great line “The problem with music schools is when you play something that sounds good and the teachers tell you “you are doing it wrong”. They listen with their theory and not their emotions. All that breeds is robots.”
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 11, 2019, 05:24:10 PM
I went to music school.  Yes, there's some truth to what you say.  But teachers are there to help you sharpen your musical ability...and then you never see them again.  It's the same in sharpening any skill; the training period is important, and often boring, but it lasts for only a while, and then you're free to use it or not.

I worked very hard at music theory, especially harmony and counterpoint.  It transformed my ability, especially in the improvisation department, and I would never want to be without that knowledge. I found that it set me free, musically speaking. 

If you're always striving for something, but always falling short of it for lack of knowledge or ability, then you end up burning yourself out with frustration.

I would say, apply yourself to music theory and keyboard exercises, even if just on your own.  Don't overlook self-instruction; it's a mightily powerful option.  Theory and keyboard skills won't hurt you or turn you into a cold musical scientist, like some musical Doctor Frankenstein (That reference was for you!).  No, they will only expand your ability, and thus, increase your potential for finding satisfaction in your own work.   
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 11, 2019, 09:18:55 PM
I went to music school.  Yes, there's some truth to what you say.  But teachers are there to help you sharpen your musical ability...and then you never see them again.  It's the same in sharpening any skill; the training period is important, and often boring, but it lasts for only a while, and then you're free to use it or not.

I worked very hard at music theory, especially harmony and counterpoint.  It transformed my ability, especially in the improvisation department, and I would never want to be without that knowledge. I found that it set me free, musically speaking. 

If you're always striving for something, but always falling short of it for lack of knowledge or ability, then you end up burning yourself out with frustration.

I would say, apply yourself to music theory and keyboard exercises, even if just on your own.  Don't overlook self-instruction; it's a mightily powerful option.  Theory and keyboard skills won't hurt you or turn you into a cold musical scientist, like some musical Doctor Frankenstein (That reference was for you!).  No, they will only expand your ability, and thus, increase your potential for finding satisfaction in your own work.

Thanks! I think I'll consider it for sure!
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on January 14, 2019, 12:37:21 PM
I'm sure most of you already know this, but Sequential is on the Exhibitor List for 2019 NAMM... Rock On, Dave!
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 14, 2019, 01:04:51 PM
I didn't know that.  Thanks for the good news, Shaw.  I'd interpret it to mean they've got a new instrument ready to be announced.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 14, 2019, 01:23:10 PM
I'm sure most of you already know this, but Sequential is on the Exhibitor List for 2019 NAMM... Rock On, Dave!

Oh man!! This is gonna be awesome!
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on January 14, 2019, 01:39:10 PM
I'm sure most of you already know this, but Sequential is on the Exhibitor List for 2019 NAMM... Rock On, Dave!

Oh man!! This is gonna be awesome!
The Sequential booth is listed as "TKAB" -- most others have a booth number.  Nektar Technologies are listed in booth "TKCD".  So perhaps Sequential and Nektar are sharing space in a different room from the main floor?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on January 14, 2019, 01:48:09 PM
OK, so "TKAB" appears to be a small booth (or stage?) right outside the main entrance on the First Level. (see attached map)
Also, notice Dave have chosen a spot with an ATM machine right outside.   Convenient!   :)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 14, 2019, 03:22:50 PM
It's funny that now we don't even try to guess what sort of instrument Sequential will next release.  Years ago, on the old DSI/Prophet forum, we would all be making our best educated guesses, and some would actually get it right.  Chris or Tracy would post close up images of the instrument on the forum just to add to the sport of it, and we'd rack our brains trying to figure out what it was.  That was fun and exciting. 
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 15, 2019, 02:49:24 AM
It's funny that now we don't even try to guess what sort of instrument Sequential will next release.  Years ago, on the old DSI/Prophet forum, we would all be making our best educated guesses, and some would actually get it right.  Chris or Tracy would post close up images of the instrument on the forum just to add to the sport of it, and we'd rack our brains trying to figure out what it was.  That was fun and exciting.

I think the last teaser picture we got was from the Rev2, right?

Anyhow, after the last busy year I'd be surprised if there was already a new announcement at the NAMM show. I assume that they will mostly present the PX and PXL.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 15, 2019, 05:33:32 AM
It's funny that now we don't even try to guess what sort of instrument Sequential will next release.  Years ago, on the old DSI/Prophet forum, we would all be making our best educated guesses, and some would actually get it right.  Chris or Tracy would post close up images of the instrument on the forum just to add to the sport of it, and we'd rack our brains trying to figure out what it was.  That was fun and exciting.

I think the last teaser picture we got was from the Rev2, right?

Anyhow, after the last busy year I'd be surprised if there was already a new announcement at the NAMM show. I assume that they will mostly present the PX and PXL.

Gee, I don't remember the picture of the Rev2.  I thought they stopped that long ago.

It seems as if Sequential/DSI always has an announcement.  And since they will be at NAMM this year, I'm optimistically thinking there may at least be a word and an image about a Prophet 12 replacement.  That's my hope.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 15, 2019, 06:17:22 AM
It's funny that now we don't even try to guess what sort of instrument Sequential will next release.  Years ago, on the old DSI/Prophet forum, we would all be making our best educated guesses, and some would actually get it right.  Chris or Tracy would post close up images of the instrument on the forum just to add to the sport of it, and we'd rack our brains trying to figure out what it was.  That was fun and exciting.

I think the last teaser picture we got was from the Rev2, right?

Anyhow, after the last busy year I'd be surprised if there was already a new announcement at the NAMM show. I assume that they will mostly present the PX and PXL.

Fingers crossed that your assumption is wrong. It would seem rather odd if they spent money and travel time to present a synth that’s been reviewed and demoed for almost a year now.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on January 15, 2019, 06:29:01 AM
It's funny that now we don't even try to guess what sort of instrument Sequential will next release.  Years ago, on the old DSI/Prophet forum, we would all be making our best educated guesses, and some would actually get it right.  Chris or Tracy would post close up images of the instrument on the forum just to add to the sport of it, and we'd rack our brains trying to figure out what it was.  That was fun and exciting.

I think the last teaser picture we got was from the Rev2, right?

Anyhow, after the last busy year I'd be surprised if there was already a new announcement at the NAMM show. I assume that they will mostly present the PX and PXL.

Fingers crossed that your assumption is wrong. It would seem rather odd if they spent money and travel time to present a synth that’s been reviewed and demoed for almost a year now.
Agreed.  Makes no business sense for them to go through the time and effort to just say “hi folks”.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 15, 2019, 06:29:13 AM
Fingers crossed that your assumption is wrong. It would seem rather odd if they spent money and travel time to present a synth that’s been reviewed and demoed for almost a year now.

Rather half a year than a year. And the PXL only started shipping 2 months ago.

In the past, not every NAMM visit went hand in hand with a product announcement. Several instruments (the final Tempest version I believe and certainly a couple of smaller desktop modules) have been announced before or after NAMM, particularly in the DSI days, and those were then presented later at the NAMM show. Keep in mind that neither the PX nor the PXL have ever been publically presented at any NAMM show yet.

Also, the last year was pretty busy with PX and PXL development and loads of firmware updates for older instruments.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: SandyS1 on January 15, 2019, 06:45:29 AM
If they're just on a small stage, they may be having some of their partner artists come up to show off the PX/L and make everyone there feel bad about their chops.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: megamarkd on January 16, 2019, 01:18:08 AM
I build exhibitions/expos/trade shows/etc for a living/gas and I'm more trying to guess what the stand will look like from the floorplan!  But then again, when I see coverage of shows/events I've not built on the telly I spend more time IDing the main show build company and trying to spot trademark stand designs of custom build companies.  Unfortunately the only tradeshow here that comes close to anything like NAMM is the broadcast tech show....
That position Sequential have is a nice spot as not only will they will get traffic from everyone using ATM next to them (as Shaw pointed out), but as people exit the main show hall via the entry opposite they will hopefully see the stand, not to mention anyone who is visiting the Yamaha display will notice them.  It does look like there is a set of fire stairs next to them, but the elevators are also (another traffic zone).  I think I like my work a little bit too much sometimes ;)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on January 23, 2019, 05:57:03 AM
Well, just one more day....
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 23, 2019, 06:50:58 AM
Well, just one more day....

Fingers crossed!
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: blewis on January 23, 2019, 12:06:53 PM
Trying to not get my hopes up (I'm one of those Poly-Pro2 guys (except 2 digital and 2 VCOs))
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 23, 2019, 12:08:38 PM
I would most like to see a replacement for the Prophet 12 - something big and fairly sophisticated. 
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on January 23, 2019, 12:21:55 PM
I'm 99% certain, that the next product is either a PX module, or the P12's takeover...
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 23, 2019, 01:14:07 PM
That certainly would be to follow the usual pattern. 
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 23, 2019, 01:46:38 PM
I don't expect the next instrument yet, at least not tomorrow. I suspect it'll be a booth where the PX and PXL are going to be presented, but obviously outside of where the regular booths are located (according to the floorplan).
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 23, 2019, 02:00:30 PM
Here are the news:

 Sequential Debuts Eight New 8Dio Sample Packs for Prophet X at NAMM

"Anaheim, CA—Jan 23, 2019— At this year’s NAMM convention, Sequential will debut eight new add-on packs from sound developer 8Dio for their flagship samples-plus-synthesis keyboard, the Prophet X. The sample packs are focused largely on vintage synthesizers and include the Minimoog Model D, Sequential Circuits T8, Oberheim OBX, ARP 2600, Juno 60, Jupiter 6, Moog Prodigy, as well as a new deep-sampled piano.

The Prophet X has garnered critical acclaim for its sonic versatility and sound design capabilities through its substantial internal library of 150 GB of sample content as well as its ability to import up to 50 GB of additional user samples and add-on content from sound developers.

All sample content can be manipulated by the Prophet X sound engine, which powers two simultaneous sample-based instruments plus two high-resolution digital oscillators, with a full complement of traditional synthesis tools, all processed through analog filters. Dual digital effects and a 64-step polyphonic sequencer round out the package. In standard performance mode, the instrument provides bi-timbral, 8-voice stereo, or 16-voice mono operation. 32-voice performance mode, allows paraphonic filter operation when using a single sampled instrument and oscillator.

'I’m excited to introduce these new Prophet X add-ons from 8dio at NAMM,” commented Dave Smith. They add an interesting vintage slant to a very modern synth. To have these classic instruments available to perform with or to manipulate with the Prophet X synthesis engine makes an already-powerful musical tool even more versatile. '

Dave will be representing Sequential at the NAMM show at Meeting Room TKAB.

The add-ons packs will be available for download from 8Dio’s website at a date to be determined after the show.

Disclamer: All musical instrument manufacturer and product names used in add-on packs by 8Dio are trademarks of their respective owners, which are in no way associated or affiliated with 8Dio or Sequential LLC."


Taken from: https://www.matrixsynth.com/2019/01/sequential-debuts-eight-new-8dio-sample.html
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on January 23, 2019, 02:12:33 PM
Here are the news:

 Sequential Debuts Eight New 8Dio Sample Packs for Prophet X at NAMM

"Anaheim, CA—Jan 23, 2019— At this year’s NAMM convention, Sequential will debut eight new add-on packs from sound developer 8Dio for their flagship samples-plus-synthesis keyboard, the Prophet X. The sample packs are focused largely on vintage synthesizers and include the Minimoog Model D, Sequential Circuits T8, Oberheim OBX, ARP 2600, Juno 60, Jupiter 6, Moog Prodigy, as well as a new deep-sampled piano.

The Prophet X has garnered critical acclaim for its sonic versatility and sound design capabilities through its substantial internal library of 150 GB of sample content as well as its ability to import up to 50 GB of additional user samples and add-on content from sound developers.

All sample content can be manipulated by the Prophet X sound engine, which powers two simultaneous sample-based instruments plus two high-resolution digital oscillators, with a full complement of traditional synthesis tools, all processed through analog filters. Dual digital effects and a 64-step polyphonic sequencer round out the package. In standard performance mode, the instrument provides bi-timbral, 8-voice stereo, or 16-voice mono operation. 32-voice performance mode, allows paraphonic filter operation when using a single sampled instrument and oscillator.

'I’m excited to introduce these new Prophet X add-ons from 8dio at NAMM,” commented Dave Smith. They add an interesting vintage slant to a very modern synth. To have these classic instruments available to perform with or to manipulate with the Prophet X synthesis engine makes an already-powerful musical tool even more versatile. '

Dave will be representing Sequential at the NAMM show at Meeting Room TKAB.

The add-ons packs will be available for download from 8Dio’s website at a date to be determined after the show.

Disclamer: All musical instrument manufacturer and product names used in add-on packs by 8Dio are trademarks of their respective owners, which are in no way associated or affiliated with 8Dio or Sequential LLC."


Taken from: https://www.matrixsynth.com/2019/01/sequential-debuts-eight-new-8dio-sample.html (https://www.matrixsynth.com/2019/01/sequential-debuts-eight-new-8dio-sample.html)
I'm quite looking forward to this.   I got the Last Prophet Add-On pack, and those samples are a joy to work with -- they mix well with the onboard OSCs, and thick pads just fall out of the instrument.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 25, 2019, 01:41:49 PM
I'm 99% certain, that the next product is either a PX module, or the P12's takeover...

A PX module seems to be off the table with a likelihood of 99% methinks.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on January 25, 2019, 01:57:24 PM
I'm 99% certain, that the next product is either a PX module, or the P12's takeover...

A PX module seems to be off the table with a likelihood of 99% methinks.

I know the chances are not high... but it's either that, or a P12 takeover... the later being my best bet thus far. :)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on January 25, 2019, 03:59:58 PM
I'm 99% certain, that the next product is either a PX module, or the P12's takeover...

A PX module seems to be off the table with a likelihood of 99% methinks.

That’s what essentially what Carson said in a Prophet X thread... which to me means that they have either been s-ending time around the office drinking (see those new 40th anniversary shot glasses), or working on something completely new.  Or hopefully both.

Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 25, 2019, 04:28:06 PM
I'm 99% certain, that the next product is either a PX module, or the P12's takeover...

A PX module seems to be off the table with a likelihood of 99% methinks.

That’s what essentially what Carson said in a Prophet X thread... which to me means that they have either been s-ending time around the office drinking (see those new 40th anniversary shot glasses), or working on something completely new.  Or hopefully both.

I'm not so sure about that. 2018 was still pretty much dedicated to the PX and the PXL. After all, it wasn't announced before May. Then they had to design the hardware for the PXL while maintaining the first OS versions and developing the user sample import feature. During the 2nd half of last year they also released plenty of updates for other synths which included not only bug fixes but also significant enhancements like in the case of the Pro 2's software. That couldn't have left a lot of time to focus on what comes next, although they certainly know by now what is going to be the next project. But it will probably take a couple of more months until that's going to be announced. Personally, I wouldn't expect any news before summer, which I would still consider quick in case the next instrument would be something like a follow-up to the P12. If there would ever be anything like that, though, I would not expect it to be anything like a P12 Rev2, but rather something that's as related to the P12 as the P12 was to the Evolver.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 25, 2019, 09:38:17 PM
I think we will likely see Sequential’s next synth announced around Superbooth or Knobcon or something. With things like the Peak, Quantum and even the Kyra and Microfreak perhaps Sequential is simply deciding what they should do in terms of a digital oscillator based synth that would be different or stand out from what’s already on the market.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 26, 2019, 05:31:16 AM
I think we will likely see Sequential’s next synth announced around Superbooth or Knobcon or something. With things like the Peak, Quantum and even the Kyra and Microfreak perhaps Sequential is simply deciding what they should do in terms of a digital oscillator based synth that would be different or stand out from what’s already on the market.

Sequential has never really made its decisions dependent on market research or anything like that. So I would assume they already know what's next irrespective of the latest NAMM releases. I do agree insofar, though, as the analog craze seems to have reached a tipping point. Not in the sense that there's going to be another 1983 again (the current market is far too diverse by comparison and allows for a more sustained co-existence of different types), but insofar as more and more design approaches move into the hybrid territory: Hybrid in terms of analog and digital, but also in terms of synthesis options.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on January 26, 2019, 06:02:37 AM
And therefore Sequential also has to take FPGA digital synthesis seriously now in my opinion... one of the things that all digital synths suffer from are aliasing, especially with the more exotic types of synthesis that involve audio rate modulations (and that's the actual fun digital synthesis, doing things analog cannot)... more and more of these digital synths are seeing the light of day in these times... Kyra and PEAK being examples of this.

More hardware synths working in FPGA would also make a big difference to all those "digital synth in software and hardware are essentially the same, so you can as well use softsynths" types of comments... if hardware synths start to utilize FPGA digital synthesis they will be able to outpower the softsynths, making an actual good reason to choose hardware over software... even when 100% digital.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 26, 2019, 10:08:49 AM
And therefore Sequential also has to take FPGA digital synthesis seriously now in my opinion... one of the things that all digital synths suffer from are aliasing, especially with the more exotic types of synthesis that involve audio rate modulations (and that's the actual fun digital synthesis, doing things analog cannot)... more and more of these digital synths are seeing the light of day in these times... Kyra and PEAK being examples of this.

More hardware synths working in FPGA would also make a big difference to all those "digital synth in software and hardware are essentially the same, so you can as well use softsynths" types of comments... if hardware synths start to utilize FPGA digital synthesis they will be able to outpower the softsynths, making an actual good reason to choose hardware over software... even when 100% digital.

I'd like to see a function where you can dial in how much aliasing you want.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sleep of Reason on January 26, 2019, 10:45:08 AM
significant enhancements like in the case of the Pro 2's software.

I'd like major updates like linear FM for P12/Pro 2 not be the exception. The Montage for example has massive annual overhauls. Novation Peak just had tons of major features added. The Quantum isn't even a year old and a major addition is being added. Now the explanation given is that Sequential isn't a massive company like Yamaha, yet if you're releasing flagship 3 or even 4k synths, especially tech heavy ones like the PX, I would expect the same treatment being paid.

I want to see the P12 replacement as much as the next guy, but a model based around a yearly high-end release doesn't allow for any single product to reach its full potential.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 26, 2019, 11:58:23 AM
significant enhancements like in the case of the Pro 2's software.

I'd like major updates like linear FM for P12/Pro 2 not be the exception. The Montage for example has massive annual overhauls. Novation Peak just had tons of major features added. The Quantum isn't even a year old and a major addition is being added. Now the explanation given is that Sequential isn't a massive company like Yamaha, yet if you're releasing flagship 3 or even 4k synths, especially tech heavy ones like the PX, I would expect the same treatment being paid.

I want to see the P12 replacement as much as the next guy, but a model based around a yearly high-end release doesn't allow for any single product to reach its full potential.

Well with the recent updates to the P6, OB6 and REV2...perhaps it's a sign where a certain team will be delegated to focusing on improving products in their catalog while others are focusing on the newest ones. Look how much they've grown since the days of the P12, Pro 2, Tempest and Mophox4.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 26, 2019, 04:28:24 PM
I want to see the P12 replacement as much as the next guy, but a model based around a yearly high-end release doesn't allow for any single product to reach its full potential.

I completely agree.  I would much rather see a moderate number of highly developed instruments that are substantially free of bugs.  The yearly release is not nearly as important.  It just keeps the company in the music news.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 26, 2019, 05:51:28 PM
And fresh from NAMM (crossposted):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-zELjyoklA

https://youtu.be/ZU9I-7WfHBA
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sleep of Reason on January 27, 2019, 12:57:44 PM
https://youtu.be/lGez_3jqgCI?t=566

Looks like whatever it is, we might see it by the summer...
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 27, 2019, 01:11:39 PM
https://youtu.be/lGez_3jqgCI?t=566

Looks like whatever it is, we might see it by the summer...

Oh happy day!
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 27, 2019, 01:19:28 PM
https://youtu.be/lGez_3jqgCI?t=566

Looks like whatever it is, we might see it by the summer...

Oh happy day!

I told you so.  ;D
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 27, 2019, 01:39:42 PM
So we have one hint: it's nothing like a Prophet XL.  Okay, let's try to work from there.

Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 27, 2019, 01:41:03 PM
So we have one hint: it's nothing like a Prophet XL.  Okay, let's try to work from there....

Not yet at least. Dave mentioned that the PX engine would be great for drums, but not right away.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on January 27, 2019, 01:41:27 PM
So we have one hint: it's nothing like a Prophet XL.  Okay, let's try to work from there....
And we have that sheepish grin from Dave -- like saying "it's gonna be a good one".


 :)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 27, 2019, 01:44:37 PM
Could we say a Poly Evolver Keyboard Rev2 is nothing like a PXL?   Hmmm....
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 27, 2019, 01:47:36 PM
Could we say a Poly Evolver Keyboard Rev2 is nothing like a PXL?   Hmmm....

Since there hasn't been anything like a PEK, I see no logical fallacy.  ;)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on January 27, 2019, 01:51:10 PM
Could we say a Poly Evolver Keyboard Rev2 is nothing like a PXL?   Hmmm....
HA!


Yes you could.  But I somehow think Dave will do something different.  I mean, before the P12, who would have thought he would have created OSC types called "Meh", "Buzz" and "Shrill" -- and THEN allow the synth to smoothly morph among them.  I think he may well head in a direction that could only come from his imagination, not ours.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 27, 2019, 01:55:43 PM
I mean, before the P12, who would have thought he would have created OSC types called "Meh", "Buzz" and "Shrill" -- and THEN allow the synth to smoothly morph among them.

Each time I dial up the waveform "Meh" on my Pro 2, its name never fails to make me smirk.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 27, 2019, 02:37:54 PM
One thing I hope is that it's color pallet is visually different. I really like the white P12 and the look of the Poly Evolver Keyboards simply because they aren't the typical black designs. Looking at the current Sequential catalog it would be nice to see something not just sonically different but visually different as well.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 27, 2019, 02:44:08 PM
One thing I hope is that it's color pallet is visually different. I really like the white P12 and the look of the Poly Evolver Keyboards simply because they aren't the typical black designs. Looking at the current Sequential catalog it would be nice to see something not just sonically different but visually different as well.

Well, we had yellow already too. And since red is pretty much monopolized by a certain Swedish company, that would only leave green or some other mixed colors. Preferred name for a green synth: Sustainesizer.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 27, 2019, 02:48:10 PM
One thing I hope is that it's color pallet is visually different. I really like the white P12 and the look of the Poly Evolver Keyboards simply because they aren't the typical black designs. Looking at the current Sequential catalog it would be nice to see something not just sonically different but visually different as well.

Well, we had yellow already too. And since red is pretty much monopolized by a certain Swedish company, that would only leave green or some other mixed colors. Preferred name for a green synth: Sustainesizer.

Well white, blue, purple would all be welcome....green....hmmm...despite it being my favorite color I'm not sure if it would work for a synth....maybe green LEDs though...that would be different. Pair it with the red LEDs of the P6 and it would be Christmas time all year round lol.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 27, 2019, 02:52:21 PM
One thing I hope is that it's color pallet is visually different. I really like the white P12 and the look of the Poly Evolver Keyboards simply because they aren't the typical black designs. Looking at the current Sequential catalog it would be nice to see something not just sonically different but visually different as well.

Well, we had yellow already too. And since red is pretty much monopolized by a certain Swedish company, that would only leave green or some other mixed colors. Preferred name for a green synth: Sustainesizer.

Well white, blue, purple would all be welcome....green....hmmm...despite it being my favorite color I'm not sure if it would work for a synth....maybe green LEDs though...that would be different. Pair it with the red LEDs of the P6 and it would be Christmas time all year round lol.

Ah, now I wanna call the Globals button on my Prophet-6 the Christmas button.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: SandyS1 on January 27, 2019, 03:05:50 PM
The PEK is one of the best-looking keyboards I've seen, so I'd love to see that scheme make a reappearance. Plus Sequential has already had a couple of blue-accented keyboards in its past (VS and 2000), so there's precedence in the Sequential livery.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 27, 2019, 03:28:10 PM
It won't happen...but what I'd love to see as a possible smaller synth down the line.

Sequential-Vox.

A four voice paraphonic analog string machine/vocoder.
Both mic and guitar input.
Reverb, Phaser, Chorus and Delay built in as effects with a new Ensemble effect.
I don't believe Sequential ever had a string machine/vocoder. I could be wrong though...still...I think it would be quite unique in their catalog. I know Waldorf and Behringer are coming out with their respective vocoders/string machines but it would be nice to see what Sequential could do with the idea. Not too many paraphonic synths on the market and that's a shame, I really think they have a unique sound to them.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 27, 2019, 05:56:31 PM
It won't happen...but what I'd love to see as a possible smaller synth down the line.

Sequential-Vox.

A four voice paraphonic analog string machine/vocoder.
Both mic and guitar input.
Reverb, Phaser, Chorus and Delay built in as effects with a new Ensemble effect.
I don't believe Sequential ever had a string machine/vocoder. I could be wrong though...still...I think it would be quite unique in their catalog. I know Waldorf and Behringer are coming out with their respective vocoders/string machines but it would be nice to see what Sequential could do with the idea. Not too many paraphonic synths on the market and that's a shame, I really think they have a unique sound to them.

I think that would be a bit too retro for Dave's liking. And while Sequential offers many different idiosyncratic machines, each with its own strengths, a string machine/vocoder seems a bit too specialized for what they usually do.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 27, 2019, 08:02:12 PM
Dave is using his usual "new" and "different" terminology, so I'd say our guesses are in vain.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: megamarkd on January 28, 2019, 09:54:27 PM
One thing I hope is that it's color pallet is visually different. I really like the white P12 and the look of the Poly Evolver Keyboards simply because they aren't the typical black designs. Looking at the current Sequential catalog it would be nice to see something not just sonically different but visually different as well.

Ah the colour discussion, not as trivial as some think!
Well, we had yellow already too. And since red is pretty much monopolized by a certain Swedish company, that would only leave green or some other mixed colors. Preferred name for a green synth: Sustainesizer.

I like this idea.  I have no green in my room yet besides the lettering on the Pulse 2 and Mod-1, both being from one of the most colourful companies there has been over the years but still black and white body colours respectively.
Well white, blue, purple would all be welcome....green....hmmm...despite it being my favorite color I'm not sure if it would work for a synth....maybe green LEDs though...that would be different. Pair it with the red LEDs of the P6 and it would be Christmas time all year round lol.

It is mine also!  But maybe yellow flashing lights for less eye damage in the dark.  Deep Forest* Green with yellow blinkies and an oled screen would make for a nice looking machine, though dead sure the traditional ebony and ivory's under it would never match it well.
It won't happen...but what I'd love to see as a possible smaller synth down the line.

Sequential-Vox.

No, please no more of these things that seem more abundant now that they ever were in the 70's or 80's!  I can't imagine there's enough room in the market for another with at least four companies making them now.  Good string are always welcome, but not another devoted string machine in the vein of those from the days of yore.
Dave is using his usual "new" and "different" terminology, so I'd say our guesses are in vain.

Now, in keeping with what you/we've all been discussing elsewhere, a synth inline with the current ProX but with perhaps something akin to the SM Pro VMachine (and others) in there also.  I like the idea of user samples and a sophisticated manipulation engine and the Prologue really piqued my curiosity with the 3rd party Osc's being programmed for it.  Combine those to features and all that is really needed is the ability to load plug-in effects onto the synth also.  The synth could come with bare-bones and an option for adding sample sets, Osc models and effects packs for either a one-time "for life" payment, or use the subscription model where an owner can pay for the rights to use the "add-ons" from particular companies for a period of time (a la the business software package model used these days).
This could make for a product that Sequential could continue to produce for many years longer than what is the current popular flagship lifespans while still ensuring a steady flow of revenue other than relying on the sales of hardware.

I'm probably way off the mark on if this is a viable business model for an instrument company (one product rarely sustains a company no matter how good it is) or if it's even a reasonable idea for a synthesiser that people entertain buying then purchasing the add-ons.....but it's a thread for musings.

*Yes, you know what I'm talking about!
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 28, 2019, 10:30:22 PM
Wait there’s four companies making string machines? I only know Waldorf and Behringer are.

And honestly even if string machines aren’t your thing I do think there’s room for paraphonic synths (I think they have quite a unique sound to them) and especially vocoders. The Pro 2 has an external audio input, would it really be so bad if a vocoder was at least an option.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: megamarkd on January 29, 2019, 02:18:27 AM
Also Roland with their VP-03 and I counted the Mininova because of it's gooseneck mic without thinking it's actually a VA with a vocoder really.

I have a Streichfett and actually am annoyed that Waldorf won't be doing their STVC in a module.  I also think that there is room for a few more paraphonic synths.  I was fairly critical of them before I got a Pulse 2 and found it's paraphonic modes killer chord makers even sharing the one filter and amp.  I used to treat the Evolver in a similar manner by sequencing it's osc's to play chords.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sleep of Reason on January 29, 2019, 05:10:17 AM
Quote from: megamarkd link=topic=125.msg35699#msg35699
or use the subscription model where an owner can pay for the rights to use the "add-ons" from particular companies for a period of time (a la the business software package model used these days).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSudkID3zJM
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 29, 2019, 05:15:27 AM
Also Roland with their VP-03 and I counted the Mininova because of it's gooseneck mic without thinking it's actually a VA with a vocoder really.

I have a Streichfett and actually am annoyed that Waldorf won't be doing their STVC in a module.  I also think that there is room for a few more paraphonic synths.  I was fairly critical of them before I got a Pulse 2 and found it's paraphonic modes killer chord makers even sharing the one filter and amp.  I used to treat the Evolver in a similar manner by sequencing it's osc's to play chords.

Roland discontinued the VP 03 and the mini Nova is certainly not a dedicated string machine/vocoder
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 29, 2019, 08:11:56 AM
It's very simple.  If it isn't blue, it isn't an Evolver.  It won't sound the same, and it can't ever sound the same.  An Evolver sounds blue, for blue is its sound.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 29, 2019, 08:19:16 AM
Wait there’s four companies making string machines? I only know Waldorf and Behringer are.

And honestly even if string machines aren’t your thing I do think there’s room for paraphonic synths (I think they have quite a unique sound to them) and especially vocoders. The Pro 2 has an external audio input, would it really be so bad if a vocoder was at least an option.

I too, have a special little place in my heart for string machines.  Every time I listen to one online, I think, "Goodness gracious, that sounds dreadful!"  The old stringers need to be processed correctly.  With the right amount of EQ and reverb, and for certain contexts a phaser as well, they can sound wonderful.  I had an Elka Rhapasody 490 many moons ago, and used it constantly.  They add a certain magic to a mix, different from the imitations I've attempted with my DSI synthesizers.  I have a feeling Dave's instruments are too good to be able to perfectly imitate them.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on January 29, 2019, 08:27:42 AM
I have a feeling Dave's instruments are too good to be able to perfectly imitate them.
Blasphemy! 
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 29, 2019, 08:41:02 AM
I have a feeling Dave's instruments are too good to be able to perfectly imitate them.
Blasphemy!

I've tried and tried, even using two different simultaneous LFO rates for the vibrato.  The DSI version is just too lovely.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOWT9yshJuQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRRY6zt_a7g
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 29, 2019, 08:58:01 AM
Wait there’s four companies making string machines? I only know Waldorf and Behringer are.

And honestly even if string machines aren’t your thing I do think there’s room for paraphonic synths (I think they have quite a unique sound to them) and especially vocoders. The Pro 2 has an external audio input, would it really be so bad if a vocoder was at least an option.

I too, have a special little place in my heart for string machines.  Every time I listen to one online, I think, "Goodness gracious, that sounds dreadful!"  The old stringers need to be processed correctly.  With the right amount of EQ and reverb, and for certain contexts a phaser as well, they can sound wonderful.  I had an Elka Rhapasody 490 many moons ago, and used it constantly.  They add a certain magic to a mix, different from the imitations I've attempted with my DSI synthesizers.  I have a feeling Dave's instruments are too good to be able to perfectly imitate them.

The key is the paraphonic nature and the divide down technology used.

https://youtu.be/RsSRuVanfek

Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 29, 2019, 09:06:01 AM
Yes, the paraphonic envelope is one of the keys.  But once you're sustaining a note or chord, it's all the same.

That audio quality is terrible.  Why would Behringer post a demonstration that sounds like a Farfisa organ on a bad day?   And there's a steep price to pay for making the instrument "portable."  You could somewhat compensate for a string machine's inherent thinness of tone by maintaining a bass note, but not with Behringer's tiny tot version.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on January 29, 2019, 09:23:28 AM
tiny tot version.
That's my new favorite phrase for the Roland / Yamaha / Behringer mini-toys
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 29, 2019, 10:19:32 AM
Yes, the paraphonic envelope is one of the keys.  But once you're sustaining a note or chord, it's all the same.

That audio quality is terrible.  Why would Behringer post a demonstration that sounds like a Farfisa organ on a bad day?   And there's a steep price to pay for making the instrument "portable."  You could somewhat compensate for a string machine's inherent thinness of tone by maintaining a bass note, but not with Behringer's tiny tot version.

Well you could do that with an external midi controller. I know it's not ideal but realistically I think Behringer knows it's a niche product even among synth heads so making a 5 octave version isn't economically realistic.

Shame that I won't buy a Behringer product, I actually like the sound of it.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 29, 2019, 10:33:53 AM
I do wonder though...will Sequential do yet another Prophet or will it be a totally different name?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on January 29, 2019, 10:37:43 AM
Yes, the paraphonic envelope is one of the keys.  But once you're sustaining a note or chord, it's all the same.

That audio quality is terrible.  Why would Behringer post a demonstration that sounds like a Farfisa organ on a bad day?   And there's a steep price to pay for making the instrument "portable."  You could somewhat compensate for a string machine's inherent thinness of tone by maintaining a bass note, but not with Behringer's tiny tot version.

Well you could do that with an external midi controller. I know it's not ideal but realistically I think Behringer knows it's a niche product even among synth heads so making a 5 octave version isn't economically realistic.

Shame that I won't buy a Behringer product, I actually like the sound of it.
Well, unless you need it live, there are some decent software [gasp!] emulations [sorry for uttering the S word].  And in a mix, you likely can’t tell a difference.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 29, 2019, 11:08:46 AM

I know it's not ideal but realistically I think Behringer knows it's a niche product even among synth heads so making a 5 octave version isn't economically realistic.

As I'm sure you know, the common keyboard length of the old string machines was four octaves.  Even that would have sufficed for so limited an instrument.  But three?  In the opinion of many of us, that's too short even for a mono synth.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Quatschmacher on January 29, 2019, 11:29:06 AM

I know it's not ideal but realistically I think Behringer knows it's a niche product even among synth heads so making a 5 octave version isn't economically realistic.

As I'm sure you know, the common keyboard length of the old string machines was four octaves.  Even that would have sufficed for so limited an instrument.  But three?  In the opinion of many of us, that's too short even for a mono synth.

Indeed. Now I’ve tasted the Pro 2, the Sub 37 seems annoyingly short. Arturia did it right with Matrixbrute at four octaves.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 29, 2019, 11:56:54 AM

I know it's not ideal but realistically I think Behringer knows it's a niche product even among synth heads so making a 5 octave version isn't economically realistic.

As I'm sure you know, the common keyboard length of the old string machines was four octaves.  Even that would have sufficed for so limited an instrument.  But three?  In the opinion of many of us, that's too short even for a mono synth.

Nah I disagree with that mono statement. I see no reason to have so many octaves when you can only play one note at a time. Zero real estate sense.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 29, 2019, 11:58:48 AM

I know it's not ideal but realistically I think Behringer knows it's a niche product even among synth heads so making a 5 octave version isn't economically realistic.

As I'm sure you know, the common keyboard length of the old string machines was four octaves.  Even that would have sufficed for so limited an instrument.  But three?  In the opinion of many of us, that's too short even for a mono synth.

Indeed. Now I’ve tasted the Pro 2, the Sub 37 seems annoyingly short. Arturia did it right with Matrixbrute at four octaves.

Pro 2 has the ability to play four voices paraphonically. The keyboard range makes sense. Thr Matrix Brute can play three note paraphonically and split the keyboard. Plus it also had to fit the actual Matrix.

Since you can only play 2 notes paraphonically on the Sub 37 it would not make sense to have more octaves. Form follows function.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 29, 2019, 12:50:14 PM

I know it's not ideal but realistically I think Behringer knows it's a niche product even among synth heads so making a 5 octave version isn't economically realistic.

As I'm sure you know, the common keyboard length of the old string machines was four octaves.  Even that would have sufficed for so limited an instrument.  But three?  In the opinion of many of us, that's too short even for a mono synth.

Nah I disagree with that mono statement. I see no reason to have so many octaves when you can only play one note at a time. Zero real estate sense.

What about melodies that exceed three octaves?  Mine do all the time.  There are often no opportunities to hit an octave button.  What then?  Even another half-an-octave would be a major improvement, as with the Pro 2 or Minimoog.  Whereas, my dear old Mono Evolver Keyboard was a constant problem for melodies, and I had to sell it for the big one.

Believe me, if three octaves sufficed, then I could happily afford one of the current mono synths.  But they just won't do.  I've owned six different three-octave mono synths, and each time I had problems with their size.  That's a practical fact.  Otherwise, there would have been a Sub 37 or Odyssey sitting in my music room long ago.

It's not without good reason that mono synths have been made over the years in all different shapes and sizes, so as to suit the needs of different types of synthesists.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Quatschmacher on January 29, 2019, 04:09:39 PM

I know it's not ideal but realistically I think Behringer knows it's a niche product even among synth heads so making a 5 octave version isn't economically realistic.

As I'm sure you know, the common keyboard length of the old string machines was four octaves.  Even that would have sufficed for so limited an instrument.  But three?  In the opinion of many of us, that's too short even for a mono synth.

Indeed. Now I’ve tasted the Pro 2, the Sub 37 seems annoyingly short. Arturia did it right with Matrixbrute at four octaves.

Pro 2 has the ability to play four voices paraphonically. The keyboard range makes sense. Thr Matrix Brute can play three note paraphonically and split the keyboard. Plus it also had to fit the actual Matrix.

Since you can only play 2 notes paraphonically on the Sub 37 it would not make sense to have more octaves. Form follows function.

I find it much easier to physically jump up octaves rather than constantly having to use the transpose knob. It also frees up a hand to use the pitch and mod wheels instead.

I wrote a line in Bbm the other day that spans a full 3 octaves; it’s playable on the Pro 2 but not on the Subsequent 37. It has fast 16ths in it so using the transpose keys isn’t viable.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 29, 2019, 04:18:00 PM
I find it much easier to physically jump up octaves rather than constantly having to use the transpose knob. It also frees up a hand to use the pitch and mod wheels instead.

I wrote a line in Bbm the other day that spans a full 3 octaves; it’s playable on the Pro 2 but not on the Subsequent 37. It has fast 16ths in it so using the transpose keys isn’t viable.

Yup.  And add the many cases when you're left hand is playing another instrument, so that it's not free to hit the octave button on your mono synth.  This is less of a problem if you're always multi-tracking, but that's not the case with those of us who record or play live.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: megamarkd on January 29, 2019, 06:41:58 PM
Quote from: megamarkd link=topic=125.msg35699#msg35699
or use the subscription model where an owner can pay for the rights to use the "add-ons" from particular companies for a period of time (a la the business software package model used these days).
[a video I didn't watch due to it's title making playback essentially a redundancy measure]

Yes yes, I agree it's a dreadful concept and I'd not like the model to infiltrate the music world in the same way it has the visual creative world, but it was purely a throwaway idea.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: megamarkd on January 29, 2019, 10:58:09 PM
Also Roland with their VP-03 and I counted the Mininova because of it's gooseneck mic without thinking it's actually a VA with a vocoder really.

I have a Streichfett and actually am annoyed that Waldorf won't be doing their STVC in a module.  I also think that there is room for a few more paraphonic synths.  I was fairly critical of them before I got a Pulse 2 and found it's paraphonic modes killer chord makers even sharing the one filter and amp.  I used to treat the Evolver in a similar manner by sequencing it's osc's to play chords.

Roland discontinued the VP 03 and the mini Nova is certainly not a dedicated string machine/vocoder

Didn't realise that Roland dropped the module.  Didn't last long really.  I thought it sounded rather nice for a recent times Roland and was sorta jealous of the vocoder.  Roland are getting better and better at digitally cloning their 80's synths.
And yeah, I did mention that the Mininova's vocoder made me just kneejerk it into the list and I'm aware it's a VA as it's namesake was.

To add to all the talk of octave counts: transpose buttons are why I want everything in a module.  That way I can use my own choice of controller and not pay for keyboards too short for the instrument they are on.

I'd like to get an authentic octave-divider string machine.  That dreamy ethereal sound they have can evoke so much emotion from a single chord held for bars on end.  The Streichfett is nice but it's not quite it.  I asked Waldorf about a STVC module and they said their intended market for the STVC doesn't want a module.  But I've got a usable five octave synth with a wonderfully unique orange skin that would be perfect for it already.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 30, 2019, 07:26:34 AM
I find it much easier to physically jump up octaves rather than constantly having to use the transpose knob. It also frees up a hand to use the pitch and mod wheels instead.

I wrote a line in Bbm the other day that spans a full 3 octaves; it’s playable on the Pro 2 but not on the Subsequent 37. It has fast 16ths in it so using the transpose keys isn’t viable.

Yup.  And add the many cases when you're left hand is playing another instrument, so that it's not free to hit the octave button on your mono synth.  This is less of a problem if you're always multi-tracking, but that's not the case with those of us who record or play live.

Didn’t seem to hinder Keith Emerson or Herbie Hancock playing Minimoogs and Odysseys. Lol

It is a rather strange conundrum to be in though. “I need more octaves” “use an external controller via midi” “no” lol
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on February 22, 2019, 04:01:24 PM
I stand corrected...Sequential did have a string synth back in the day.

http://www.vintagesynth.com/sci/prelude.php
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: cornonthecob on March 26, 2019, 07:28:09 PM
I would like to see one based on an FPGA running very high rate oscillators like what Novation does with the Peak.

A modern 16 voice FPGA 24mhz zero alias oscillators based synth with Analog path and it would open up more oscillator types,modulation etc. Novation Peak is quite an instrument because of this and would love to see what DSI can do with such an processor.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on March 28, 2019, 11:10:57 PM
I would like to see one based on an FPGA running very high rate oscillators like what Novation does with the Peak.

A modern 16 voice FPGA 24mhz zero alias oscillators based synth with Analog path and it would open up more oscillator types,modulation etc. Novation Peak is quite an instrument because of this and would love to see what DSI can do with such an processor.

Just as long as their is a parameter which allows the user to dial in as little or as much aliasing as they want.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Quatschmacher on March 29, 2019, 01:40:23 AM
Whatever it is, I hope it has better pots than the current models. I returned my Pro 2 after the pots became loose after a few weeks. The problem seems not to be the point where they attach to the board but the rotating top section of the pot (the part to which the rubber knobs attach); this part becomes loose and rocks from side to side.

I am looking to buy a poly and spent a few hours playing a P-6, an OB-6 and a Rev 2 and all three had loose pots (OB-6 having the fewest). I know these are floor models and thus potentially subject to abuse but still. I would like my gear to last a long time.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on April 10, 2019, 09:28:09 PM
I do wonder if this new synth will have an entirely digital front end or have a combination of two analog and two digital oscillators like the Poly Evolver. I would think putting analog oscillators on it would start to overlap with their other analog oscillator based synths in their catalog.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Soundquest on April 11, 2019, 10:34:30 AM
Fully MPE compatible for the new midi controllers on the market would be nice.   Ability to import waveforms.  And most importantly, how about another blue color one like PEK?  Something to set it apart form the poly market offerings.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on April 11, 2019, 11:14:33 AM
Fully MPE compatible for the new midi controllers on the market would be nice.   Ability to import waveforms.  And most importantly, how about another blue color one like PEK?  Something to set it apart form the poly market offerings.

Or white! I tried a white P12 in the store the other week and I really liked the look of it.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: OceanMachine on April 11, 2019, 11:40:08 AM
I hope it has an all digital front end with SSI2144 filters. If so I've already started saving up for it.

Also I'd prefer it to be white with blue print/lights.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on April 11, 2019, 07:15:33 PM
I hope it has an all digital front end with SSI2144 filters. If so I've already started saving up for it.

Also I'd prefer it to be white with blue print/lights.

I've always associated wavetables/VS synthesis with the color Blue because of the Prophet VS, Poly Evolver and PPG Wave. Much like how I associate FM synthesis with the color Green (Because of the DX7)

I actually think either a white or blue synth would be a nice addition to Sequential's catalog. It would certainly make it unique.

The question really is....will it be another Prophet or will we see a totally new Sequential synth name? The Sequential Waves? The Sequential Vector?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on April 25, 2019, 07:36:08 AM
Not sure if that's anything to go by but the Pro 2 got a $500 price drop at Sweetwater: https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Pro2--dave-smith-instruments-pro-2
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on April 25, 2019, 03:12:16 PM
Not sure if that's anything to go by but the Pro 2 got a $500 price drop at Sweetwater: https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Pro2--dave-smith-instruments-pro-2

Pro 4 baby! Woooo
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on April 25, 2019, 07:17:33 PM
Not sure if that's anything to go by but the Pro 2 got a $500 price drop at Sweetwater: https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Pro2--dave-smith-instruments-pro-2

"Limited-time Offer!
 25% Off Plus Free Carry Bag and DSM03 Module!"

It sounds as if they're trying hard to move them out.

 
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on April 27, 2019, 10:19:37 AM
I do wonder if Sequential will officially buy Oberhiem and do turn some of Tom’s unreleased SEM X Eurorack stuff into reality....or The Son Of 4 Voice. Not sure if Dave and co. Have a big enough operation to handle both but still...hate to see those designs fade away.

https://www.matrixsynth.com/2011/01/tom-oberheim-son-of-4-voice.html

https://www.gearnews.com/namm-2017-oberheim-announce-eurorack-sem-x/

I did read though on a forum that someone asked Tom about the SEM X and Eurorack stuff and he apparently told them they will be released in 2019. I truly wish that to be true.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on May 06, 2019, 08:51:36 PM
I did read though on a forum that someone asked Tom about the SEM X and Eurorack stuff and he apparently told them they will be released in 2019. I truly wish that to be true.
THAT would drag me [kicking and screaming] into the world of EuroCrack.   The Sem Pro almost did....
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on May 07, 2019, 06:40:48 PM
With the Novation Summit set to arrive...I wonder if Sequential might change their plans for a P12 successor or somehow manage to simply bring out a better product to compete with the Summit. Both would likely be a digital oscillator/analog filter combination with bi timbrality and on board Effects. Both would likely have wavetables and FM in their digital front end. Makes one wonder if Sequential might do something completely unexpected and scrap their plans for a P12 successor because of this.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on May 08, 2019, 12:50:24 AM
It will probably be a digital replacement for the P12... with the SUMMIT coming, it really will be hard to choose a P12 over the SUMMIT... SUMMIT more or less has the options that made the P12 attractive over the PEAK, and with a superior audio quality.

My bet is that if Sequential do not take MHz rate FPGA synthesis serious, they will sack behind at some point... so I hope for their own sake that they start taking that serious for future digital front end synthesizers.

But there are a few other possible things that the next synth could be... Dave has mentioned that it could be fun to use the sampling technology to create some sort of percussion device, so that is a sign it may be something in that direction too... TEMPEST certainly needs a successor as well, with a much better MIDI implementation and digital front end.

If it's not any of those two options, I really do not know what it would be, unless it's a module version of the Prophet X.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on May 08, 2019, 03:39:25 AM
It will probably be a digital replacement for the P12... with the SUMMIT coming, it really will be hard to choose a P12 over the SUMMIT... SUMMIT more or less has the options that made the P12 attractive over the PEAK, and with a superior audio quality.

My bet is that if Sequential do not take MHz rate FPGA synthesis serious, they will sack behind at some point... so I hope for their own sake that they start taking that serious for future digital front end synthesizers.

But there are a few other possible things that the next synth could be... Dave has mentioned that it could be fun to use the sampling technology to create some sort of percussion device, so that is a sign it may be something in that direction too... TEMPEST certainly needs a successor as well, with a much better MIDI implementation and digital front end.

If it's not any of those two options, I really do not know what it would be, unless it's a module version of the Prophet X.

Well he said they aren’t working on a PX style percussion yet so I don’t think it’s that. I do think though they were working on something FPGA for their P12 replacement so it will be interesting to see if they hold off to see what the Summit has to offer and then try and better it.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on May 08, 2019, 03:51:30 AM
It will probably be a digital replacement for the P12... with the SUMMIT coming, it really will be hard to choose a P12 over the SUMMIT... SUMMIT more or less has the options that made the P12 attractive over the PEAK, and with a superior audio quality.

My bet is that if Sequential do not take MHz rate FPGA synthesis serious, they will sack behind at some point... so I hope for their own sake that they start taking that serious for future digital front end synthesizers.

But there are a few other possible things that the next synth could be... Dave has mentioned that it could be fun to use the sampling technology to create some sort of percussion device, so that is a sign it may be something in that direction too... TEMPEST certainly needs a successor as well, with a much better MIDI implementation and digital front end.

If it's not any of those two options, I really do not know what it would be, unless it's a module version of the Prophet X.

Well he said they aren’t working on a PX style percussion yet so I don’t think it’s that. I do think though they were working on something FPGA for their P12 replacement so it will be interesting to see if they hold off to see what the Summit has to offer and then try and better it.

Correct. Dave just stated in a conversation with Nick from Sonicstate that some sort of drum machine based on sampling technology would certainly be a great idea, but quickly added that this is not what they're currently working on.

And while the Sequential team might certainly be receptive to what's going on, I very much doubt that they would revisit an already started design process according to daily announcements from the synth world.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on May 08, 2019, 04:16:45 AM
One thing I'd like to see from Sequential now is a replacement of the P12

The new filters in the PX scream to be used in another type of digital front end kind of synth... Personally I'd like to see an FPGA digital front end, that has more than just the oscillators in the FPGA... I like the idear of the analog filters, but they are only LP, so if they instead included some unique digital filters in the FPGA it would become rather interesting, plus more ways to modulate between the oscillators than just the usual sync, ringmod and FM... I'd like to see some filter types that are rare in the analog domain like formant filters, waveshapers and other fun stuff that will allow you to get a really huge timbral range before the conversion to analog. I also hope for FX where the reverb has more modulation options than the current synth range... preferably I'd also like it to sport 4 oscillators so that the synth could have a built in joystick for Prophet VS type of performance where you can mix between the four waveforms (or other parameters) using the joystick.

Also... I'd like waveform storage like it was on the Evolver... with todays huge amount of memory for cheap, it should be possible to make a huge waveform bank with say; 4096 single cycle waveforms that you could upload yourself via SysEx, and then use these for both oscillator waveforms and LFO waveforms.... I'm thinking that the wavetables could be done a bit like it was on the P12 where you chose a left/middle/right waveshape, but just expand this to 5 waveforms instead that you can morph in between... this is what I miss on the PEAK because the wavetables are ROM shapes, not RAM which would greatly expand on the sonic pallette.

All in all I'd like to see a more wavetable oriented hybrid synth from Sequential.. .especially with FPGA for the digital part, with a joystick to use as performance controller.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Quatschmacher on May 08, 2019, 05:38:02 AM
Whatever they build, I hope they use better quality pot shafts. It’s shocking how quickly they deteriorate and this has been a major factor in my not buying a DSI/Sequential poly as of yet.

Summit is looking like a definite contender.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on May 09, 2019, 03:44:57 PM
You know, with the current digital front/analog filter hybrids that have come out of Superbooth this year, I almost want to see Sequential not do one. As nice as a P12 successor would be it feels like it might get lost in the shuffle. Sequential always seems to sort of be ahead of the market or almost leading the market in a way but doing something so similar to the Summit or even the Super 6 would have less impact I feel, regardless of how many features they put into it.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on May 10, 2019, 05:22:36 AM
You know, with the current digital front/analog filter hybrids that have come out of Superbooth this year, I almost want to see Sequential not do one. As nice as a P12 successor would be it feels like it might get lost in the shuffle. Sequential always seems to sort of be ahead of the market or almost leading the market in a way but doing something so similar to the Summit or even the Super 6 would have less impact I feel, regardless of how many features they put into it.

Well... whatver they have been working on for some time now, they probably cannot turn around, so it may be a replacement afterall... we'll just have to wait and see...
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on May 10, 2019, 03:06:35 PM
You know, with the current digital front/analog filter hybrids that have come out of Superbooth this year, I almost want to see Sequential not do one. As nice as a P12 successor would be it feels like it might get lost in the shuffle. Sequential always seems to sort of be ahead of the market or almost leading the market in a way but doing something so similar to the Summit or even the Super 6 would have less impact I feel, regardless of how many features they put into it.

Well... whatver they have been working on for some time now, they probably cannot turn around, so it may be a replacement afterall... we'll just have to wait and see...

Yeah I suppose...still...they haven’t really given themselves an official deadline or any official announcement. They didn’t debut anything at Namm or Superbooth or anything this year so it could very well be pushed back to next year before we see anything new with Sequential.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on May 17, 2019, 12:16:13 PM
(https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/60332992_2523395351018647_112545658031833088_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_ht=scontent-frt3-1.xx&oh=6b5db4cf86f9006403dbc6ed467fba21&oe=5D62F0CA)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on May 17, 2019, 12:38:45 PM
(https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/60332992_2523395351018647_112545658031833088_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_ht=scontent-frt3-1.xx&oh=6b5db4cf86f9006403dbc6ed467fba21&oe=5D62F0CA)
Is this from a blog post, or....?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on May 17, 2019, 12:40:22 PM
Is this from a blog post, or....?

Facebook and Twitter. The Pro 2 has now officially been retired.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on May 17, 2019, 12:44:16 PM
Is this from a blog post, or....?

Facebook and Twitter. The Pro 2 has now officially been retired.
We kinda saw that coming... and that raises some questions -- 2 synths retired before a replacement is announced for either.  That's gonna drive some speculation for sure! 
 :)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on May 17, 2019, 12:47:59 PM
Is this from a blog post, or....?

Facebook and Twitter. The Pro 2 has now officially been retired.
We kinda saw that coming... and that raises some questions -- 2 synths retired before a replacement is announced for either.  That's gonna drive some speculation for sure! 
 :)

Either way, the Pro 2 is destined to remain a modern classic
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on May 17, 2019, 12:50:57 PM
Is this from a blog post, or....?

Facebook and Twitter. The Pro 2 has now officially been retired.
We kinda saw that coming... and that raises some questions -- 2 synths retired before a replacement is announced for either.  That's gonna drive some speculation for sure! 
 :)

Either way, the Pro 2 is destined to remain a modern classic
No doubt.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on May 17, 2019, 02:34:21 PM
Holy crap! Did not expect the Prophet 12, Pro 2 And the DSI Modular stuff to be discontinued all one after another in the same year. Hmm wonder if they read my post about the Pro 4 idea like they read my Prophet X post. ;)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Quatschmacher on May 17, 2019, 03:30:16 PM
Holy crap! Did not expect the Prophet 12, Pro 2 And the DSI Modular stuff to be discontinued all one after another in the same year. Hmm wonder if they read my post about the Pro 4 idea like they read my Prophet X post. ;)

Imagine a 5-octave, FPGA poly version of the Pro 2. I’d buy it in a heartbeat.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on May 17, 2019, 09:38:16 PM
Holy crap! Did not expect the Prophet 12, Pro 2 And the DSI Modular stuff to be discontinued all one after another in the same year. Hmm wonder if they read my post about the Pro 4 idea like they read my Prophet X post. ;)

Imagine a 5-octave, FPGA poly version of the Pro 2. I’d buy it in a heartbeat.

Nah. I see zero logic in a five octave mono synth. Paraphonic or otherwise.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on May 18, 2019, 12:39:23 AM
It's just another cue that something with a digital front end is coming up... They are rewamping their digital lineup, except the X... I'm certain of it... Hope it will be an FPGA front end, and please... No monosynth!... I wonder if the P12 will remain in module form still...
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on May 18, 2019, 07:14:32 AM
It's just another cue that something with a digital front end is coming up... They are rewamping their digital lineup, except the X... I'm certain of it... Hope it will be an FPGA front end, and please... No monosynth!... I wonder if the P12 will remain in module form still...

Or it may be something completely unexpected. While we are all expecting a P12 successor, we might get an analog oscillator/digital oscillator hybrid OR a larger VCO based synth that isn’t Moog One style pricing. With the Super 6 And Novation Summit, Sequential might feel the market for digital front/analog back synths are satisfied. Dave has always been about leading the market or doing something no one else is doing. He might not see a point in bringing out a synth with wavetables, FM, FPGA oscillators now when people already have access to one at a decent price. Likely why he never brought out an analog mono synth when everyone else was.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on May 18, 2019, 08:53:56 AM
It's just another cue that something with a digital front end is coming up... They are rewamping their digital lineup, except the X... I'm certain of it... Hope it will be an FPGA front end, and please... No monosynth!... I wonder if the P12 will remain in module form still...

Or it may be something completely unexpected. While we are all expecting a P12 successor, we might get an analog oscillator/digital oscillator hybrid OR a larger VCO based synth that isn’t Moog One style pricing. With the Super 6 And Novation Summit, Sequential might feel the market for digital front/analog back synths are satisfied. Dave has always been about leading the market or doing something no one else is doing. He might not see a point in bringing out a synth with wavetables, FM, FPGA oscillators now when people already have access to one at a decent price. Likely why he never brought out an analog mono synth when everyone else was.

Well... if not something with a digital front end, then what? ... there is no other choice but to make the front end either digital or analog, and as FPGA will work for any kind of digital innovation, I could easily see this coming...

Now I'm not interested in just a P12 made with an FPGA front end if that is what you thought that I wanted... digital is the most flexible, and you could do anything with it at lightning FPGA speeds, so anything could be done, not just wavetable/VA stuff...

I still believe we'll see a new take on a digital front-end synth from Sequential because their whole lineup right now has an open space for such a device... but I certainly cannot guess what It'll be... just have to wait and see.

If it's a hybrid like the Evolver, fine with me... as long as it's FPGA in the digital front end, has at least 8voice polyphony, is at least dual timbral and has internal FX.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: OceanMachine on May 18, 2019, 10:06:49 AM
The market is full of analog, so that's not going against the grain in any way. Korg has a VCO/digital oscillator lineup, which I'm sure Dave and co could outdo, though that's not too interesting either. A knobby FM synth would certainly be something no one has ever really pulled off before. Nor are there any good examples of knobby physical modeling synths. The Quantum is capable of both in some way, but not focused around either. The Nonlinear Labs C15 is another interesting synth, yet it's not knobby.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on May 18, 2019, 10:36:33 AM
The market is full of analog, so that's not going against the grain in any way. Korg has a VCO/digital oscillator lineup, which I'm sure Dave and co could outdo, though that's not too interesting either. A knobby FM synth would certainly be something no one has ever really pulled off before. Nor are there any good examples of knobby physical modeling synths. The Quantum is capable of both in some way, but not focused around either. The Nonlinear Labs C15 is another interesting synth, yet it's not knobby.

I was thinking a Prophet FM type synth with a focus on DX style FM synthesis but not sure.

Dave first did an analog/digital oscillator synth with the Evolver line.

Actually four part multitimbrality would be interesting with an analog/digital oscillator based synth. Right now the most Seqential has is two parts. Moog One has three....why not four?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on May 18, 2019, 10:41:52 AM
As far as another VCO based synth from Sequential....maybe something like Paul Dither’s Prophet 8 design which is an extension of the Prophet 6 design ....or perhaps Prophet 20 with an external lower manual extension (instead of a module) like the Prophet 10. So you essentially could get two 10 voice VCO synths at your disposal with two key beds. We don’t really have a large analog flagship from Sequential.


Perhaps something with multitimbrality. Dave did say they are looking into that as well as MPE.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: OceanMachine on May 18, 2019, 11:33:02 AM
Dave first did an analog/digital oscillator synth with the Evolver line.

Actually four part multitimbrality would be interesting with an analog/digital oscillator based synth. Right now the most Seqential has is two parts. Moog One has three....why not four?

It doesn't matter who did it first, it's about what's currently on the market. Nor is a more modern version of something you did prior all that innovative and possibly not even fresh anyway. Same goes for simply adding more stuff. I'd like to see Dave do at least one more synth that no one had ever really attempted.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on May 18, 2019, 11:36:28 AM
The reason no one does multitimbrality anymore is that people making music is getting used to recording audio with their synths... they like to be able to record as many tracks as they want with audio from the same synth, thus needing less physical synths... i bet this is why multitimbrality is phasing out with many companies.

The main reason for some being dual or even a third layer is that performing musicians need stacks/splits and thus more than 3 would be more or less useless. multimode in many of these synths is a simple bonus where you can control the layers independently via their own MIDI channel, and code wise it's pretty easy to include when you've already got stack/split functionality.

A third reason may be that any synth with analog parts in the signal chain is always limited to about 8-16 voices ... if you had 4 parts on a REV2 16-voice you'd be down to 4 voices per part... we're reaching a polyphony that's becoming insufficient for anything but leads, basses and other short release sounds now, and when you use multitimbral you all know that the first question will be "does it have separate outs!?" which further increase the cost of the synth, and complicates any built in FX that will usually be routed to only one output, otherwise the FX engine have to be duplicated for each output as well, further increasing cost.

With a fully digital synth, it's much more feasible to have multitimbrality, especially these days with the horsepower the CPU's give you... probably also why the KYRA have 8 part multitimbrality... it also has 128 voices giving you 16 voices per part because of this.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: OceanMachine on May 18, 2019, 11:54:18 AM
Here's another idea that no one has ever done:
(https://media.sweetwater.com/api/i/q-82__ha-ef8f171d6b3d516a__hmac-a8c6f5f01563dac7ac069226d346381c0e20f68e/images/items/750/KB37w-large.jpg)

A module keyboard platform like the KB Waldorf except one that works within a digitally controlled ecosystem. Meaning it would have savable patches and digitally controlled mod matrix section, so say goodbye to silly patch cables. The keyboard/digital control section remain the same while modules could be swapped at whim. You could possibly even open things up to where other companies could license (free or otherwise) the ability to integrate into said ecosystem. I'm no engineer and it might be impractical to do something of this nature, but it seems possible.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on May 18, 2019, 12:30:10 PM
The reason no one does multitimbrality anymore is that people making music is getting used to recording audio with their synths... they like to be able to record as many tracks as they want with audio from the same synth, thus needing less physical synths... i bet this is why multitimbrality is phasing out with many companies.

The main reason for some being dual or even a third layer is that performing musicians need stacks/splits and thus more than 3 would be more or less useless. multimode in many of these synths is a simple bonus where you can control the layers independently via their own MIDI channel, and code wise it's pretty easy to include when you've already got stack/split functionality.

A third reason may be that any synth with analog parts in the signal chain is always limited to about 8-16 voices ... if you had 4 parts on a REV2 16-voice you'd be down to 4 voices per part... we're reaching a polyphony that's becoming insufficient for anything but leads, basses and other short release sounds now, and when you use multitimbral you all know that the first question will be "does it have separate outs!?" which further increase the cost of the synth, and complicates any built in FX that will usually be routed to only one output, otherwise the FX engine have to be duplicated for each output as well, further increasing cost.

There's another reason, related to the user experience. Multitimbrality always requires additional menu diving, or it's at least another feature dependent on display use. Particularly for those synth designers who aim to create an easy to use hands-on instrument that's a no-go. Also because the panel settings quickly don't correspond to the sound you're currently working on in case you work on multiple layers. If you only have 2 layers there's less confusion. And of course multitimbrality has become less popular because we have moved on from the typical MIDI bedroom studios of the 1980s and 1990s, which you indicated in your first point.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on May 18, 2019, 12:38:48 PM
The reason no one does multitimbrality anymore is that people making music is getting used to recording audio with their synths... they like to be able to record as many tracks as they want with audio from the same synth, thus needing less physical synths... i bet this is why multitimbrality is phasing out with many companies.

The main reason for some being dual or even a third layer is that performing musicians need stacks/splits and thus more than 3 would be more or less useless. multimode in many of these synths is a simple bonus where you can control the layers independently via their own MIDI channel, and code wise it's pretty easy to include when you've already got stack/split functionality.

A third reason may be that any synth with analog parts in the signal chain is always limited to about 8-16 voices ... if you had 4 parts on a REV2 16-voice you'd be down to 4 voices per part... we're reaching a polyphony that's becoming insufficient for anything but leads, basses and other short release sounds now, and when you use multitimbral you all know that the first question will be "does it have separate outs!?" which further increase the cost of the synth, and complicates any built in FX that will usually be routed to only one output, otherwise the FX engine have to be duplicated for each output as well, further increasing cost.

There's another reason, related to the user experience. Multitimbrality always requires additional menu diving, or it's at least another feature dependent on display use. Particularly for those synth designers who aim to create an easy to use hands-on instrument that's a no-go. Also because the panel settings quickly don't correspond to the sound you're currently working on in case you work on multiple layers. If you only have 2 layers there's less confusion. And of course multitimbrality has become less popular because we have moved on from the typical MIDI bedroom studios of the 1980s and 1990s, which you indicated in your first point.

I definitely agree... for me even dual layers are confusing when using the interface... that's exactly why I want editors ;)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on May 18, 2019, 12:40:59 PM
Here's another idea that no one has ever done:
(https://media.sweetwater.com/api/i/q-82__ha-ef8f171d6b3d516a__hmac-a8c6f5f01563dac7ac069226d346381c0e20f68e/images/items/750/KB37w-large.jpg)

A module keyboard platform like the KB Waldorf except one that works within a digitally controlled ecosystem. Meaning it would have savable patches and digitally controlled mod matrix section, so say goodbye to silly patch cables. The keyboard/digital control section remain the same while modules could be swapped at whim. You could possibly even open things up to where other companies could license (free or otherwise) the ability to integrate into said ecosystem. I'm no engineer and it might be impractical to do something of this nature, but it seems possible.

If you wanted exchangeable modules, yes... then that would actually be a fun thing... but it would be troublesome to do I think... saveable patches then only means anything when you have a STEADY setup of modules, otherwise presets would not work when modules are exchanged... if this should give any meaning presetwise, then it has already been done and is called Nord Modular :)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: OceanMachine on May 18, 2019, 01:18:23 PM
I already thought about presets, but I don't think that would be an insurmountable obstacle. For one, even the independently created OB6/P6 Expander (https://forum.sequential.com/index.php/topic,3575.0.html) has a way around this by allowing separate synth banks, which granted, there's enough memory to do so & you'd need many more for all the configurations. Perhaps have an SD card slot or whatnot. Supposedly the Moog One has such a vast amount of preset slots that the total is unkown, so memory shouldn't be too much of an issue these days. If not you could always have the option of SysEx dumps when changing things out. Some type of smart formatting would be required considering the vast amounts of possible configurations eventually, but seemingly possible with a closed ecosystem & also the ability to update. I don't think anyone at Sequential is up to this task, so more adept programmers would need to be brought on board probably.

One real obstacle I see is getting consumers on board with a limited amount of modules at launch. It would probably take cannibalizing several sections of their prior tech put into module form like DSI has done in the past. In other words, a ton of work for the entire enterprise, yet it would be revolutionary I think. Dave could do for the world of modular what he did for the world of polysynths. 
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on May 18, 2019, 02:08:08 PM
I already thought about presets, but I don't think that would be an insurmountable obstacle. For one, even the independently created OB6/P6 Expander (https://forum.sequential.com/index.php/topic,3575.0.html) has a way around this by allowing separate synth banks, which granted, there's enough memory to do so & you'd need many more for all the configurations. Perhaps have an SD card slot or whatnot. Supposedly the Moog One has such a vast amount of preset slots that the total is unkown, so memory shouldn't be too much of an issue these days. If not you could always have the option of SysEx dumps when changing things out. Some type of smart formatting would be required considering the vast amounts of possible configurations eventually, but seemingly possible with a closed ecosystem & also the ability to update. I don't think anyone at Sequential is up to this task, so more adept programmers would need to be brought on board probably.

One real obstacle I see is getting consumers on board with a limited amount of modules at launch. It would probably take cannibalizing several sections of their prior tech put into module form like DSI has done in the past. In other words, a ton of work for the entire enterprise, yet it would be revolutionary I think. Dave could do for the world of modular what he did for the world of polysynths.

But still making presets would only be interesting for the person who is actually making the presets... anyone interested in sharing their presets, or selling them would run into a huge problem because most setups would most likely be different as users would have different modules... this means that anyone buying this synth would have to make all presets themselves, from the ground up... for a dedicated sound designer nerd, this might be a lot of fun, but what about everyone else? ... also i assume that you want modules that also incorporate analog components like filters, VCA's etc.? ... otherwise the whole thing would be nothing more than a Nord Modular with physical modules.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: OceanMachine on May 18, 2019, 02:25:13 PM
The whole buying a synth and not making your own patches deal is odd to me. Honestly I'm not sure what portion of the market that makes up...

Yes, both analog and digital options ofc. The technical engineering issue regarding the possibility of using analog components not hardwired and not using cables is the real obstacle that I question. I know CC works for modulation purposes, but some kind of more advanced connector that works across the modules would be the real technical feat hardware-wise I suppose...
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on May 18, 2019, 02:37:20 PM
What I could see as a possible and interesting synth is something like the Prologue, but with Dave's deep engine... I'm very interested in the open source digital oscillator/FX of the Prologue, but I have hesitated because of a few irritating things: 1. there is only a 4 voice module and 2. The engine is not deep enough.

I'd like to see an open source, FPGA oscillator section (front end) that allow 3rd party developers to create oscillator algorithms... at least 3 digital FPGA oscillators... This followed by an analog VCF/VCA, and then another open source FPGA effect section... 8-16 voices.

Basically an open source SUMMIT ... I think that what many want now are new innovative digital oscillators to work with for creating new and interesting timbres, and instead of constantly build new synths for every new type of digital oscillator technology, it would be much smarter to simply create an open source FPGA front end. If the analog part could then be changed into other filter types by inserting a filter module physically, you could choose your own flavour of filters.

Normally a straight forward synth is comprised of four modules:

1. Oscillator
2. Filter
3. VCA
4. FX

If the first and the last module was open source FPGA, and the filter module was physically changeable into other filter types (a bit like with the Muteable Instruments old synth SHRUTI/AMBIKA) in an easy way (without opening the synth), then the company could sell different filter modules and still profit from this, even if 3rd party developers create FPGA code for the oscillator and FX section and profit from these themselves.


Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on May 18, 2019, 02:41:50 PM
The whole buying a synth and not making your own patches deal is odd to me. Honestly I'm not sure what portion of the market that makes up...

Yes, both analog and digital options ofc. The technical engineering issue regarding the possibility of using analog components not hardwired and not using cables is the real obstacle that I question. I know CC works for modulation purposes, but some kind of more advanced connector that works across the modules would be the real technical feat hardware-wise I suppose...

Well... a lot of sound designers sell their presets... a lot of users do not want to, or do not have the skills to create their own, so they buy sounds.... this is a potential customer group that would have to be included into designing a synth I'd say, otherwise your only target group would be those that want to create their sounds themselves... the customer base would certainly be lower in this case... especially the more advanced the sound design process would be, and in this case, with a modular concept, it would probably be quite complicated to design your own sounds.

I'm not saying it would not be profitable... and interesting... but you would certainly have to take these things into acount when creating such a complex synth :)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: OceanMachine on May 18, 2019, 03:00:09 PM
Well you're not factoring in the modular market, which I would assume is larger than the number of folks who buy synths solely for other people's patches. I think such a design would be welcome by quite a few of the former. Someone was saying Richard Devine, for example, was paring down his live modular setup because it was getting way too out of hand. Also for people like me who want customizable module options, but require the convince of a system with presets. This would be the perfect reasonable solution. Plus you can get out a number of modules yearly without worry about a full-scale synth constantly.

An open source FPGA or a proper full-scale MicoFreak (which offers the Mutable Instruments open source engines) type synth is also interesting. Either way, more open ended customization options does seem like the future.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: megamarkd on May 18, 2019, 06:03:43 PM
It's on their product page and being offered for sale at one of the stores I use. I actually saw it the other day on the shop's site and it didn't click it was a new product for some reason.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: blewis on May 18, 2019, 06:47:28 PM
....maybe something like Paul Dither’s Prophet 8 design which is an extension of the Prophet 6 design ....

Can someone share a pointer to that mock-up?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Quatschmacher on May 19, 2019, 07:09:02 AM
Holy crap! Did not expect the Prophet 12, Pro 2 And the DSI Modular stuff to be discontinued all one after another in the same year. Hmm wonder if they read my post about the Pro 4 idea like they read my Prophet X post. ;)

Imagine a 5-octave, FPGA poly version of the Pro 2. I’d buy it in a heartbeat.

Nah. I see zero logic in a five octave mono synth. Paraphonic or otherwise.

Hence why I said a “poly version” in my post - as in fully polyphonic.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Quatschmacher on May 19, 2019, 07:22:24 AM
Here's another idea that no one has ever done:
(https://media.sweetwater.com/api/i/q-82__ha-ef8f171d6b3d516a__hmac-a8c6f5f01563dac7ac069226d346381c0e20f68e/images/items/750/KB37w-large.jpg)

A module keyboard platform like the KB Waldorf except one that works within a digitally controlled ecosystem. Meaning it would have savable patches and digitally controlled mod matrix section, so say goodbye to silly patch cables. The keyboard/digital control section remain the same while modules could be swapped at whim. You could possibly even open things up to where other companies could license (free or otherwise) the ability to integrate into said ecosystem. I'm no engineer and it might be impractical to do something of this nature, but it seems possible.

If you wanted exchangeable modules, yes... then that would actually be a fun thing... but it would be troublesome to do I think... saveable patches then only means anything when you have a STEADY setup of modules, otherwise presets would not work when modules are exchanged... if this should give any meaning presetwise, then it has already been done and is called Nord Modular :)

Something along the lines of the way that the Source Audio Neuro Hub works with their pedals might be interesting. There you can hook up up to five pedals and save a “scene” which is a preset comprised of all the pedals’ current settings. You can swap out pedals and save different scenes.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on May 19, 2019, 09:35:59 AM
Holy crap! Did not expect the Prophet 12, Pro 2 And the DSI Modular stuff to be discontinued all one after another in the same year. Hmm wonder if they read my post about the Pro 4 idea like they read my Prophet X post. ;)

Imagine a 5-octave, FPGA poly version of the Pro 2. I’d buy it in a heartbeat.

Nah. I see zero logic in a five octave mono synth. Paraphonic or otherwise.

Hence why I said a “poly version” in my post - as in fully polyphonic.

Wouldn’t that just be a Prophet 12 with a sequencer?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on May 19, 2019, 09:38:08 AM
....maybe something like Paul Dither’s Prophet 8 design which is an extension of the Prophet 6 design ....

Can someone share a pointer to that mock-up?

https://forum.sequential.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=125.0;attach=1969;image
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: OceanMachine on May 19, 2019, 10:28:42 AM
Wouldn’t that just be a Prophet 12 with a sequencer?

No, P12 uses the same Curtis filter as the 08, whereas the Pro 2 has dual SSM-based and SEM-based filters featured in the P6 and OB-6 respectively.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Quatschmacher on May 20, 2019, 02:17:28 AM
Wouldn’t that just be a Prophet 12 with a sequencer?

No, P12 uses the same Curtis filter as the 08, whereas the Pro 2 has dual SSM-based and SEM-based filters featured in the P6 and OB-6 respectively.

Exactly!
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on May 20, 2019, 08:47:38 AM
Wouldn’t that just be a Prophet 12 with a sequencer?

No, P12 uses the same Curtis filter as the 08, whereas the Pro 2 has dual SSM-based and SEM-based filters featured in the P6 and OB-6 respectively.

Hmm it would be interesting to see that combination in a poly. For some reason I keep thinking that combo would work well with an analog oscillator/digital oscillator combo like the Poly Evolver.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on May 20, 2019, 08:50:32 AM
The reason no one does multitimbrality anymore is that people making music is getting used to recording audio with their synths... they like to be able to record as many tracks as they want with audio from the same synth, thus needing less physical synths... i bet this is why multitimbrality is phasing out with many companies.

The main reason for some being dual or even a third layer is that performing musicians need stacks/splits and thus more than 3 would be more or less useless. multimode in many of these synths is a simple bonus where you can control the layers independently via their own MIDI channel, and code wise it's pretty easy to include when you've already got stack/split functionality.

A third reason may be that any synth with analog parts in the signal chain is always limited to about 8-16 voices ... if you had 4 parts on a REV2 16-voice you'd be down to 4 voices per part... we're reaching a polyphony that's becoming insufficient for anything but leads, basses and other short release sounds now, and when you use multitimbral you all know that the first question will be "does it have separate outs!?" which further increase the cost of the synth, and complicates any built in FX that will usually be routed to only one output, otherwise the FX engine have to be duplicated for each output as well, further increasing cost.

There's another reason, related to the user experience. Multitimbrality always requires additional menu diving, or it's at least another feature dependent on display use. Particularly for those synth designers who aim to create an easy to use hands-on instrument that's a no-go. Also because the panel settings quickly don't correspond to the sound you're currently working on in case you work on multiple layers. If you only have 2 layers there's less confusion. And of course multitimbrality has become less popular because we have moved on from the typical MIDI bedroom studios of the 1980s and 1990s, which you indicated in your first point.

 

Oh I don’t know about that. Would it really be that hard to add Edit Layer C and Edit Layer D buttons?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on May 20, 2019, 08:57:55 AM
The reason no one does multitimbrality anymore is that people making music is getting used to recording audio with their synths... they like to be able to record as many tracks as they want with audio from the same synth, thus needing less physical synths... i bet this is why multitimbrality is phasing out with many companies.

The main reason for some being dual or even a third layer is that performing musicians need stacks/splits and thus more than 3 would be more or less useless. multimode in many of these synths is a simple bonus where you can control the layers independently via their own MIDI channel, and code wise it's pretty easy to include when you've already got stack/split functionality.

A third reason may be that any synth with analog parts in the signal chain is always limited to about 8-16 voices ... if you had 4 parts on a REV2 16-voice you'd be down to 4 voices per part... we're reaching a polyphony that's becoming insufficient for anything but leads, basses and other short release sounds now, and when you use multitimbral you all know that the first question will be "does it have separate outs!?" which further increase the cost of the synth, and complicates any built in FX that will usually be routed to only one output, otherwise the FX engine have to be duplicated for each output as well, further increasing cost.

There's another reason, related to the user experience. Multitimbrality always requires additional menu diving, or it's at least another feature dependent on display use. Particularly for those synth designers who aim to create an easy to use hands-on instrument that's a no-go. Also because the panel settings quickly don't correspond to the sound you're currently working on in case you work on multiple layers. If you only have 2 layers there's less confusion. And of course multitimbrality has become less popular because we have moved on from the typical MIDI bedroom studios of the 1980s and 1990s, which you indicated in your first point.

 

Oh I don’t know about that. Would it really be that hard to add Edit Layer C and Edit Layer D buttons?

No... but still... as soon as you have layers, the knobs on the interface no longer reflect the new layer switched to, which is extremely confusing when designing sounds, especially the deeper the engine is... so in theory it would not get more complicated adding extra layers... the confusion is present even with two layers...

This is actually why encoders are better for this kind of multi-layer engine, since they never reflect any value, they just add or subtract to whatever was there in the first place... but people seem to want real oldschool pots, not encoders which totaly kills this advantage of the encoder... also, if you use encoders, the value need to be reflected somewhere on a display, and that's a lot of values to display if all parameters for one layer is to be visible on a screen at the same time, otherwise you enter the dreaded mode of multi-menu diving which also complicates matters even more...

There is ONE solution to all of this... COMPUTER EDITORS! ... that's why I always want them... they make everything much easier to deal with when you create sounds... all at one screen at the same time... people really do not understand what difference a computer editor makes for a deep engine like in a Sequential synth, and that's why I have wondered so many times, why Sequential do not make their own in-house editors...
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: jok3r on May 20, 2019, 09:53:19 AM
I don't know how expensive it would be, but I guess price is the reason why there are no synthesizers out there that have motorized faders and potis. Every mid-priced digital mixing console has this in the year 2019 A.D..

Besides layering, it would solve the whole jump-passthrough-relative thing... which annoyes me a little even when working with only one layer. Everytime I want to do a quick jump to a higher value live, I missed the passthrough point and nothing happens. But then the next song I absolutely need the passthrough mode, because I don't want anybody to hear a not-so-smooth transition... So what to do? Knob-mode per preset could be a solution (but that's worth another topic, because a lot of global params would be helpful if they were local parameters).

A Prophet-6-like instrument - which I already classify for myself as a unique premium product - could still be lifted up on a higher level if it had motorized controls.

Are there any negative points about this, that I don't get (Or why does a Moog One not have this at 8000$???)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on May 20, 2019, 10:19:24 AM
I don't know how expensive it would be, but I guess price is the reason why there are no synthesizers out there that have motorized faders and potis. Every mid-priced digital mixing console has this in the year 2019 A.D..

Besides layering, it would solve the whole jump-passthrough-relative thing... which annoyes me a little even when working with only one layer. Everytime I want to do a quick jump to a higher value live, I missed the passthrough point and nothing happens. But then the next song I absolutely need the passthrough mode, because I don't want anybody to hear a not-so-smooth transition... So what to do? Knob-mode per preset could be a solution (but that's worth another topic, because a lot of global params would be helpful if they were local parameters).

A Prophet-6-like instrument - which I already classify for myself as a unique premium product - could still be lifted up on a higher level if it had motorized controls.

Are there any negative points about this, that I don't get (Or why does a Moog One not have this at 8000$???)

Considdering most deep synthesizers have hundreds, and even thousands of parameters per preset, I think it's obvious why we do not see any motorised synths... they would be monstrous... otherwise they would have to be created with a set number of motorised faders, which means that you still have to switch between the faders functions, and also in that case have a display that will show what the fader controls... otherwise it would be just as confusing.

This is simply just the tradeoffs you have to make as a developer, if you want a very deep synthesis engine... otherwise you'd end up with less deep engines so that all controls have their own knob.

Personally I actually liked the approach of the P12 module... it did it the most logical way... a single button to enter the relevant display menu for each category of sound parameters, and then a few knobs that give you some live tweakability for the most important performance oriented/minded parameters like Cutoff and resonance.

That coupled with a really well made editor on a computer, and I'm good... it also makes the device less expensive...

With a more simple engine like the P6 or OB-6, I can see the idea of having a knob per function, as this machine is much less complex, and have no layers.

But like with the REV2, I really do not see the need to have all parameters on their own knob (almost, some are in menus still) unless you always use just one layer... as soon as you use Split or Stack the use of the knobs is screwed because they are not encoders, or motorized.

So for me it's simple... it's either one knob per function, or a fully fledged computer editor... anything in between simply will not cut it for me.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: OceanMachine on May 20, 2019, 10:46:31 AM
LEDs around endless rotary encoders to show their current settings is where it's at. The setting is exactly where the lights are at, which change per patch/layer. This would add to the price of the synth no doubt, but not as much as motorized ones. Plus the more mechanisms, the more that could possibly go wrong. If many faders are mandatory like a mixing console for example, then motorization should be implemented. 
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Quatschmacher on May 20, 2019, 12:16:39 PM
LEDs around endless rotary encoders to show their current settings is where it's at. The setting is exactly where the lights are at, which change per patch/layer. This would add to the price of the synth no doubt, but not as much as motorized ones. Plus the more mechanisms, the more that could possibly go wrong. If many faders are mandatory like a mixing console for example, then motorization should be implemented.

Yep, this is a cool implementation and one I’ve only seen on Nord Lead 3 and and Moog Little/Slim Phatty.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on May 20, 2019, 12:57:37 PM
Unfortunately, these "rings" around the encoder only gives you an approximation ... a hint at where the value really is, which for me is not enough to be honest... each LED on the ring represents a range of numbers.

For encoders to work for me, I'd much rather have the value shown on a display, just the way the REV2 does it.

But we run into yet another problem because this will only do, if every parameter in a layer is represented with it's own encoder... if an encoder has more than one function in a layer the same problem arise, and also you would want every encoder to have it's function printed below it, otherwise it gets confusing again.

But we will not see encoders... Dave started out making encoder versions of both Evolver and Prophet 8 initially, but made a pot version available because users want real pots to tweak.

Also, many manufacturers have a history of having problems with their choice in encoders... they seem to start to skip values, jump around left and right and getting rather annoying.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: OceanMachine on May 20, 2019, 03:33:04 PM
Obviously the more LEDs the better (well at least up to 127), but all you need is an approximation. The main screen can show the exact increment once moved.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on May 20, 2019, 03:47:55 PM
Obviously the more LEDs the better, but all you need is an approximation. The main screen can show the exact increment once moved.

As long as the actual value is shown on a screen, it's fine... but in that case, the LED rings would actually (for me) be nothing but a bonus... I would not require them... the only bad thing about that is if you did not have the LED rings, you'd not know a parameters value until you actually turn the knob... this problem was solved on the Novation Mininova by making the encoders touch sensitive which is a nice way around that... though I've never seen any other synth using this technique.

But all in all, i found that for me, the easiest way to overcome all of these design methods is to simply make sure that the synths i buy has SysEx specs that allow me to create editors for them... I really do not care if my synths has knobs, encoder or none... i never (or rarely) touch my synths (except for my main keyboard controller)... i control them remotely.

If I ever will touch my synths, it will be while composing music... for doing some live tweaks, changing presets etc.... but for sound design duties, i always go for editors :) ... just my personal preference.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: proteus-ix on May 21, 2019, 01:34:06 PM
It's just another cue that something with a digital front end is coming up... They are rewamping their digital lineup, except the X... I'm certain of it... Hope it will be an FPGA front end, and please... No monosynth!... I wonder if the P12 will remain in module form still...

Or it may be something completely unexpected. While we are all expecting a P12 successor, we might get an analog oscillator/digital oscillator hybrid OR a larger VCO based synth that isn’t Moog One style pricing. With the Super 6 And Novation Summit, Sequential might feel the market for digital front/analog back synths are satisfied. Dave has always been about leading the market or doing something no one else is doing. He might not see a point in bringing out a synth with wavetables, FM, FPGA oscillators now when people already have access to one at a decent price. Likely why he never brought out an analog mono synth when everyone else was.


If it's a hybrid like the Evolver, fine with me... as long as it's FPGA in the digital front end, has at least 8voice polyphony, is at least dual timbral and has internal FX.

ProphEvolver 16!  As long as it has many blue blinky lights I'm good.  Just not on the backside... what the heck was that?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: blewis on June 02, 2019, 10:22:53 AM
Its going to be awesome right?

“The waiting is the hardest part.”
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: synthRodriguez on June 28, 2019, 10:26:34 AM
Dave. Give us one for the ages, please. The synth everyone will want 40 years from now.

Keybed: 76-note, weighted, light-force piano action keyboard (like the T8) with polyphonic aftertouch. Keys start on low A (like the T8).

Oscillators and Filters: Dual-channel 12-voice, with a fixed setup like the CS-70M and CS-80 . One 12-voice set is the Prophet 6 circuitry, the other 12-voice set is the OB-6 circuitry. No 24-voice operation, always in dual (or split) mode.

Controls: The usual. However aftertouch and other modulation controllers have the ability to modify the usual parameters but added is Pulse Width, Pulse Width Modulation Depth, and LFO Speed. These MUST have independent modulation amount control for each parameter, not just one Aftertouch Modulation Depth amount that sets a global value for all. One knob for setup is ok, but allow individual depth settings using some button select routine. Expressivity will explode from this arrangement. Also, allow velocity to affect pitch with it’s own A/D envelope (a la CS-80).

Other Items: Independent audio out for each channel and a stereo mix out, midi channel assignable to each channel. Rudimentary step sequencer. Invertible envelopes. Beautiful walnut case. $6500 retail price. No cooling fans.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on June 28, 2019, 07:27:04 PM
Perhaps 6 voices of VCO based analog and 6 voices of FPGA digital oscillators.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on June 28, 2019, 07:37:14 PM
Perhaps 6 voices of VCO based analog and 6 voices of FPGA digital oscillators.
... in a bi-timbral, 5 octave Prophet 6 / OB6 style instrument.
Oh and stereo filters.  The stereo filters on the Prophet X take everything to different level.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on June 29, 2019, 02:42:27 PM
And an ornate gothic font.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on June 30, 2019, 02:23:34 AM
Honestly... and please... make anything you do next, have at least 16 voices... we're in 2019, the new standard is 16 voices even in the analogue domain when it comes to polysynths... anything less will NOT be remembered by me in 40 years time, that's for certain... 6 voices is from when electronics filled so much space up, you could not cram more into the synth, but with todays surfacemount technology, you can easily put in at least 16 voices, and anyone only wanting 6, would be satisfied with what they want to do with the synth, even if it had 16 voices... I know that some people only need 6 voices because of the type of sounds they use, and that's fine, but please don't forget that other people will be at pain level even with 8 voices...
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on June 30, 2019, 05:23:56 AM
Honestly... and please... make anything you do next, have at least 16 voices... we're in 2019, the new standard is 16 voices even in the analogue domain when it comes to polysynths... anything less will NOT be remembered by me in 40 years time, that's for certain... 6 voices is from when electronics filled so much space up, you could not cram more into the synth, but with todays surfacemount technology, you can easily put in at least 16 voices, and anyone only wanting 6, would be satisfied with what they want to do with the synth, even if it had 16 voices... I know that some people only need 6 voices because of the type of sounds they use, and that's fine, but please don't forget that other people will be at pain level even with 8 voices...

Meh I'm okay with other people being at pain level. ;)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on July 07, 2019, 02:30:04 AM
Honestly... and please... make anything you do next, have at least 16 voices... we're in 2019, the new standard is 16 voices even in the analogue domain when it comes to polysynths... anything less will NOT be remembered by me in 40 years time, that's for certain... 6 voices is from when electronics filled so much space up, you could not cram more into the synth, but with todays surfacemount technology, you can easily put in at least 16 voices, and anyone only wanting 6, would be satisfied with what they want to do with the synth, even if it had 16 voices... I know that some people only need 6 voices because of the type of sounds they use, and that's fine, but please don't forget that other people will be at pain level even with 8 voices...

Meh I'm okay with other people being at pain level. ;)

I know.. most people think only of themselves, thus I have to do the same and scream this out loud  ;)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on July 07, 2019, 10:39:54 AM
Honestly... and please... make anything you do next, have at least 16 voices... we're in 2019, the new standard is 16 voices even in the analogue domain when it comes to polysynths... anything less will NOT be remembered by me in 40 years time, that's for certain... 6 voices is from when electronics filled so much space up, you could not cram more into the synth, but with todays surfacemount technology, you can easily put in at least 16 voices, and anyone only wanting 6, would be satisfied with what they want to do with the synth, even if it had 16 voices... I know that some people only need 6 voices because of the type of sounds they use, and that's fine, but please don't forget that other people will be at pain level even with 8 voices...

Meh I'm okay with other people being at pain level. ;)

I know.. most people think only of themselves, thus I have to do the same and scream this out loud  ;)

Honestly I think they were on the right track with the voice expansion cards and even the 16 voice button. Gives people options.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on July 07, 2019, 11:10:42 AM
Honestly... and please... make anything you do next, have at least 16 voices... we're in 2019, the new standard is 16 voices even in the analogue domain when it comes to polysynths... anything less will NOT be remembered by me in 40 years time, that's for certain... 6 voices is from when electronics filled so much space up, you could not cram more into the synth, but with todays surfacemount technology, you can easily put in at least 16 voices, and anyone only wanting 6, would be satisfied with what they want to do with the synth, even if it had 16 voices... I know that some people only need 6 voices because of the type of sounds they use, and that's fine, but please don't forget that other people will be at pain level even with 8 voices...

Meh I'm okay with other people being at pain level. ;)

I know.. most people think only of themselves, thus I have to do the same and scream this out loud  ;)

Honestly I think they were on the right track with the voice expansion cards and even the 16 voice button. Gives people options.
I don't own a Rev2, but I did also like what they did with the 8/16 voice option there.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on July 07, 2019, 11:16:45 AM
I can only agree on that... a smart move really... would not mind that the next synth gave that option as well. Just wish that DSI would reveal both keys and module versions at the same time, so that I did not have to wait guessing about module versions coming or not.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on July 07, 2019, 03:05:29 PM
Honestly... and please... make anything you do next, have at least 16 voices... we're in 2019, the new standard is 16 voices even in the analogue domain when it comes to polysynths... anything less will NOT be remembered by me in 40 years time, that's for certain... 6 voices is from when electronics filled so much space up, you could not cram more into the synth, but with todays surfacemount technology, you can easily put in at least 16 voices, and anyone only wanting 6, would be satisfied with what they want to do with the synth, even if it had 16 voices... I know that some people only need 6 voices because of the type of sounds they use, and that's fine, but please don't forget that other people will be at pain level even with 8 voices...

Meh I'm okay with other people being at pain level. ;)

I know.. most people think only of themselves, thus I have to do the same and scream this out loud  ;)

Honestly I think they were on the right track with the voice expansion cards and even the 16 voice button. Gives people options.
I don't own a Rev2, but I did also like what they did with the 8/16 voice option there.

This was a big problem for me with the Korg Prologue and even Moog One...why do I have to buy an whole new synth if I want more voices? Why can't it just be an option where you can expand the polyphony or reduce the polyphony yourself if you choose? BAH!!!

Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on July 07, 2019, 03:12:43 PM
I can only agree on that... a smart move really... would not mind that the next synth gave that option as well. Just wish that DSI would reveal both keys and module versions at the same time, so that I did not have to wait guessing about module versions coming or not.

While modules are nice, it was also awesome to see Sequential do the PXL. Something completely unexpected and unique in their current catalog. I'd rather see Sequential do more things outside of the pedestrian keyboard version/module version over and over again. If anything I'd like for them to release two different products a year. A higher priced instrument and a lower priced smaller scale instrument.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: OceanMachine on July 07, 2019, 03:36:59 PM
This was a big problem for me with the Korg Prologue and even Moog One...why do I have to buy an whole new synth if I want more voices? Why can't it just be an option where you can expand the polyphony or reduce the polyphony yourself if you choose? BAH!!!
REV2 is a Curtis synth on a chip, with 8 voices on a single board and super easy for anyone to install. Not to mention, the Prologue 8 is missing the compressor and an octave, so it pretty much fits the "higher priced instrument and a lower priced smaller scale instrument" model like you mentioned. Then there's the Minilogue XD as well.
 
Regardless, I hope Sequential does something with a digital front-end next.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on July 07, 2019, 05:02:59 PM
I can only agree on that... a smart move really... would not mind that the next synth gave that option as well. Just wish that DSI would reveal both keys and module versions at the same time, so that I did not have to wait guessing about module versions coming or not.

While modules are nice, it was also awesome to see Sequential do the PXL. Something completely unexpected and unique in their current catalog. I'd rather see Sequential do more things outside of the pedestrian keyboard version/module version over and over again. If anything I'd like for them to release two different products a year. A higher priced instrument and a lower priced smaller scale instrument.

I'm sorry, but if not a keyboard or module, then what would you want instead!? ... a rack version of something? ... personaly I do not have all that space for a lot of keyboards, and I see no reason to have keys in all and every synth i own, when one can control them all... of course there are users who do not use MIDI etc. so I can understand them wanting keys, but otherwise why would one want all those keys? I get that you can play maybe two or three, or even more if you stack them in a horseshoe, but personally I would not want to walk around a room to play something.. i like sitting in my small "cockpit" with my master controller in front of me, and all my modules around me, within arms reach... that's why I want module versions... I once wanted only rack gear, but almost noone makes rackmount synths anymore, so I had to settle with module versions instead.

The problem is actually not waiting for a module to come next... the problem is that no company want to tell you, if they will make a module version of their new keyboard synths, and that's really annoying because if you have another synth in mind, if a module is not coming, then you can sit there and wait forever... it may come or it may not... and if you spend your money on that other synth, then maybe a module version comes out right after you bought the other one... that's why I would like to see both keys and module versions launched at the same time... then I do not have to sit and guess forever...
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on July 07, 2019, 08:17:04 PM
I think for me modules are good for people who are using a sequencer to play them otherwise it’s either having to buy a dedicated midi controller keyboard or if im using one of the keyboards I already have I’m sacrificing the sounds of said keyboard in order to play another. This is something I ran into when I had my SEM Pro.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on July 07, 2019, 11:53:33 PM
I think for me modules are good for people who are using a sequencer to play them otherwise it’s either having to buy a dedicated midi controller keyboard or if im using one of the keyboards I already have I’m sacrificing the sounds of said keyboard in order to play another. This is something I ran into when I had my SEM Pro.

Yes.. there is no other way to play them, than by MIDI... but you can use them without a sequencer, depending on how you are using your synths... in my case, I'm not connected to a computer sequencer at all... I have a MIDI split cable going from my master controller (Roland V-Synth GT) that is then plugged into my REV2 module and PEAK's MIDI input directly... this makes me able to play any of my modules from my V-Synth, I simply turn down the volume for the synths I do not want to hear... it allow me to layer all the synths or some of them if I want to, and then I simply record the audio output live into an audio recorder on my computer instead.

If I want a few sequences to be tight, I simply make them via built in sequencers or arpeggiators, and my V-Synth acts as master clock for all synths connected to it sending MIDI clock messages so that they all stay in sync (works much more flawless and tight than using a computer sequencer as master clock... they are also sloppy in my opinion).

I'm only connected to the computer via USB on all machines, but that's only to control them via SysEx in my editors when designing new sounds... I can though, at any time, use a sequencer on my computer if I want to, I simply do that via USB then... in that case, MIDI goes from my V-Synth into my soundcard's MIDI input, and then the sequencer simply echo the MIDI data out to the synth I want to play this way, using USB MIDI.

This gives me the most flexible setup, and also the most compact studio :)

I get that in your case, if you want to play all your synths at the same time, but with different sequences, then you would need keys on each synth... but this is down to the workflow being different from mine... I only record one synth at a time in layer style (or at least if I play more than one, I'm layering them which do not make any difference).
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on July 09, 2019, 02:32:10 PM
What about a 32 voice synth but with four part multimbrality? So when you have four parts active they each can have four note polyphony (1 part active: 32Voices, 2 parts:16, 3 parts:8, 4 parts:4.  ....unless Sequential introduce voice allocation then we are in a different ballgame.)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on July 09, 2019, 02:43:07 PM
What about a 32 voice synth but with four part multimbrality? So when you have four parts active they each can have four note polyphony (1 part active: 32Voices, 2 parts:16, 3 parts:8, 4 parts:4.  ....unless Sequential introduce voice allocation then we are in a different ballgame.)

I don't think there are many users left that use hardware multitimbrality... the problem with multitimbrality is that effects are always compromised... I would not mind a multitimbral machine though, if each part had it's own dedicated FX engine though... a bit like the REV2 which is dual timbral with each layer having it's own FX section.

Besides I think you got it wrong? ... with 1 part it's 32 voices, with 2 parts it's 16, with 4 parts it would be 8, not 4 :)

But honestly... with a 32 voice multitimbral machine, grouping it like that would be a limit... in a case of true multitimbrality, you'd want to be able to allocate the 32 voices between 16 channels/parts any way you want... the only problem with this though, is that this would require each and every part to have it's own FX ... that is FX per voice... when you group them on 8 like you suggested you would only need 4 FX engines, so there might be an advantage to grouping in 8ths.

Also when you think about it, having an FX engine per voice would require at least 32 ADC's, and if you wanted separate outputs, you'd need 32 DACs as well... this is because of the analog nature... if it was a 100% digital synth, things would be quite different.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on July 09, 2019, 03:03:56 PM
If I should want a multitimbral synth from Sequential I'd like something like this:

A module based concept... A synth that had say; four sockets, each being able to hold an 8 voice synth card.

The synth card could be anything... an 8voice REV2, an 8voice P6/OB6, an 8 voice Evolver etc.

The synth itself should be focused around having four layers, one for each module, and should be able to play them both multitimbrally, but also layer and stack them for some true amazing sound design capabilities.

Each module should have it's own dedicated FX engine built in.

When it comes to controls, it would have to be built around a large color touch-display, otherwise editing the presets would get completely out of hand, as no sane combination of knobs and buttons would be capable of satisfying each module and it's engine (yes... the sound engine should be on the modules themselves too... a complete synth on a board, only to be controlled by the larger control engine made around them).

Presets should also be stored on the modules, and be module dependent... this means that presets with part data (which would essentially be multis) should only point to the presets used, otherwise it will get complicated to use presets from others, as they may have a different combination of modules installed.

In essence... I'm talking about a multitimbral synth, with voices in groups of 8, but where these groups of eight is a dedicated synth board... this way you can install any combination of synths you might want.

I know that some of you do not like large touch displays and editing this way, but I do not see any other way around it, unless you use a computer to edit the different presets on a module instead... but it would probably be better to have it all inside the machine... and with synths like QUANTUM and ONE being out, with big screens on them, why not Sequential?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on July 09, 2019, 03:07:56 PM
If I should want a multitimbral synth from Sequential I'd like something like this:

A module based concept... A synth that had say; four sockets, each being able to hold an 8 voice synth card.

The synth card could be anything... an 8voice REV2, an 8voice P6/OB6, an 8 voice Evolver etc.

The synth itself should be focused around having four layers, one for each module, and should be able to play them both multitimbrally, but also layer and stack them for some true amazing sound design capabilities.

Each module should have it's own dedicated FX engine built in.

When it comes to controls, it would have to be built around a large color touch-display, otherwise editing the presets would get completely out of hand, as no sane combination of knobs and buttons would be capable of satisfying each module and it's engine (yes... the sound engine should be on the modules themselves too... a complete synth on a board, only to be controlled by the larger control engine made around them).

Presets should also be stored on the modules, and be module dependent... this means that presets with part data (which would essentially be multis) should only point to the presets used, otherwise it will get complicated to use presets from others, as they may have a different combination of modules installed.

In essence... I'm talking about a multitimbral synth, with voices in groups of 8, but where these groups of eight is a dedicated synth board... this way you can install any combination of synths you might want.

I know that some of you do not like large touch displays and editing this way, but I do not see any other way around it, unless you use a computer to edit the different presets on a module instead... but it would probably be better to have it all inside the machine... and with synths like QUANTUM and ONE being out, with big screens on them, why not Sequential?
A modular non-modular poly -- I think I really like that concept.    ;D
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on July 09, 2019, 03:22:06 PM
What about a 32 voice synth but with four part multimbrality? So when you have four parts active they each can have four note polyphony (1 part active: 32Voices, 2 parts:16, 3 parts:8, 4 parts:4.  ....unless Sequential introduce voice allocation then we are in a different ballgame.)

I don't think there are many users left that use hardware multitimbrality... the problem with multitimbrality is that effects are always compromised... I would not mind a multitimbral machine though, if each part had it's own dedicated FX engine though... a bit like the REV2 which is dual timbral with each layer having it's own FX section.

Besides I think you got it wrong? ... with 1 part it's 32 voices, with 2 parts it's 16, with 4 parts it would be 8, not 4 :)

But honestly... with a 32 voice multitimbral machine, grouping it like that would be a limit... in a case of true multitimbrality, you'd want to be able to allocate the 32 voices between 16 channels/parts any way you want... the only problem with this though, is that this would require each and every part to have it's own FX ... that is FX per voice... when you group them on 8 like you suggested you would only need 4 FX engines, so there might be an advantage to grouping in 8ths.

Also when you think about it, having an FX engine per voice would require at least 32 ADC's, and if you wanted separate outputs, you'd need 32 DACs as well... this is because of the analog nature... if it was a 100% digital synth, things would be quite different.

You are correct. I failed math lol.

Yeah it would be a tad complicated but could each engine not have it's own dedicated effects and stereo outputs? Think of the Prophet X's outputs how each channel has two effects and two stereo outputs....so just multiple that by 2 and you essentially have 4 pairs of stereo outputs with each dedicated to each channel and each channel could theoretically have dual effects.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on July 09, 2019, 03:25:05 PM
If I should want a multitimbral synth from Sequential I'd like something like this:

A module based concept... A synth that had say; four sockets, each being able to hold an 8 voice synth card.

The synth card could be anything... an 8voice REV2, an 8voice P6/OB6, an 8 voice Evolver etc.

The synth itself should be focused around having four layers, one for each module, and should be able to play them both multitimbrally, but also layer and stack them for some true amazing sound design capabilities.

Each module should have it's own dedicated FX engine built in.

When it comes to controls, it would have to be built around a large color touch-display, otherwise editing the presets would get completely out of hand, as no sane combination of knobs and buttons would be capable of satisfying each module and it's engine (yes... the sound engine should be on the modules themselves too... a complete synth on a board, only to be controlled by the larger control engine made around them).

Presets should also be stored on the modules, and be module dependent... this means that presets with part data (which would essentially be multis) should only point to the presets used, otherwise it will get complicated to use presets from others, as they may have a different combination of modules installed.

In essence... I'm talking about a multitimbral synth, with voices in groups of 8, but where these groups of eight is a dedicated synth board... this way you can install any combination of synths you might want.

I know that some of you do not like large touch displays and editing this way, but I do not see any other way around it, unless you use a computer to edit the different presets on a module instead... but it would probably be better to have it all inside the machine... and with synths like QUANTUM and ONE being out, with big screens on them, why not Sequential?

I think it would just be a lot easier to add "Layer C" and "Layer D" buttons and with a holding combination of each button as well as combinations of holding a Layer button with Split or Stack you could essentially have everything on the front but just instead of having the layout repeated once for Layer B, it's repeated 3 times for B,C,D.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on July 09, 2019, 03:25:36 PM
If I should want a multitimbral synth from Sequential I'd like something like this:

A module based concept... A synth that had say; four sockets, each being able to hold an 8 voice synth card.

The synth card could be anything... an 8voice REV2, an 8voice P6/OB6, an 8 voice Evolver etc.

The synth itself should be focused around having four layers, one for each module, and should be able to play them both multitimbrally, but also layer and stack them for some true amazing sound design capabilities.

Each module should have it's own dedicated FX engine built in.

When it comes to controls, it would have to be built around a large color touch-display, otherwise editing the presets would get completely out of hand, as no sane combination of knobs and buttons would be capable of satisfying each module and it's engine (yes... the sound engine should be on the modules themselves too... a complete synth on a board, only to be controlled by the larger control engine made around them).

Presets should also be stored on the modules, and be module dependent... this means that presets with part data (which would essentially be multis) should only point to the presets used, otherwise it will get complicated to use presets from others, as they may have a different combination of modules installed.

In essence... I'm talking about a multitimbral synth, with voices in groups of 8, but where these groups of eight is a dedicated synth board... this way you can install any combination of synths you might want.

I know that some of you do not like large touch displays and editing this way, but I do not see any other way around it, unless you use a computer to edit the different presets on a module instead... but it would probably be better to have it all inside the machine... and with synths like QUANTUM and ONE being out, with big screens on them, why not Sequential?
A modular non-modular poly -- I think I really like that concept.    ;D

I don't see that it's non-modular? ... the problem with a modular concept like this is that users would have different modules in it, making multi setups a personal thing that would not work on other configurations, unless you had the exact same modules installed... but I really do not see this as a big deal, as it was means mainly as a multi timbral synth.

The worst thing about this synth is probably that it would be dead expensive... but on the other hand, you could always add modules along the way.

It would also have to be able to play the modules polyphonically, so that you could put in 4 of the same module, and have a 32 voice synth...

...but I know this synth will never happen.... i just would like to pay around with such a synth that had four different types of synthesis on four layers, combining them into complete sounds... on the other hand... this could also be done by simply layering four synths, so maybe it's a bad idea anyway... just a quick synth brainstorm from me here :D

To be honest... i do not know what I would like to see from Sequential next... I'd like to see a new Tempest, but also a new digital FPGA front end synth... but I'd also like to see something inovative with synthesis types we have not seen yet... I'd actually like to see some physical modelling on the front end, with analog filters/vcas too...

If I had to choose one right now, it would probably be a new Tempest because I really do need a proper drummachine with analog filters/vcas that has both sample option and a synth voice (like on the Tempest), but with an added FX engine so that it can work stand alone without the need for a lot of external FX processing... the only drummachine at the moment that comes lose is the TR-8S, but it has no analog parts...
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: OceanMachine on July 09, 2019, 03:35:29 PM
I'd like to see a new Tempest, but also a new digital FPGA front end synth... but I'd also like to see something inovative with synthesis types we have not seen yet... I'd actually like to see some physical modelling on the front end, with analog filters/vcas too...

If I had to choose one right now, it would probably be a new Tempest because I really do need a proper drummachine with analog filters/vcas that has both sample option and a synth voice (like on the Tempest), but with an added FX engine so that it can work stand alone without the need for a lot of external FX processing...

Agreed.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on July 09, 2019, 03:38:04 PM
If I should want a multitimbral synth from Sequential I'd like something like this:

A module based concept... A synth that had say; four sockets, each being able to hold an 8 voice synth card.

The synth card could be anything... an 8voice REV2, an 8voice P6/OB6, an 8 voice Evolver etc.

The synth itself should be focused around having four layers, one for each module, and should be able to play them both multitimbrally, but also layer and stack them for some true amazing sound design capabilities.

Each module should have it's own dedicated FX engine built in.

When it comes to controls, it would have to be built around a large color touch-display, otherwise editing the presets would get completely out of hand, as no sane combination of knobs and buttons would be capable of satisfying each module and it's engine (yes... the sound engine should be on the modules themselves too... a complete synth on a board, only to be controlled by the larger control engine made around them).

Presets should also be stored on the modules, and be module dependent... this means that presets with part data (which would essentially be multis) should only point to the presets used, otherwise it will get complicated to use presets from others, as they may have a different combination of modules installed.

In essence... I'm talking about a multitimbral synth, with voices in groups of 8, but where these groups of eight is a dedicated synth board... this way you can install any combination of synths you might want.

I know that some of you do not like large touch displays and editing this way, but I do not see any other way around it, unless you use a computer to edit the different presets on a module instead... but it would probably be better to have it all inside the machine... and with synths like QUANTUM and ONE being out, with big screens on them, why not Sequential?
A modular non-modular poly -- I think I really like that concept.    ;D

I don't see that it's non-modular? ... the problem with a modular concept like this is that users would have different modules in it, making multi setups a personal thing that would not work on other configurations, unless you had the exact same modules installed... but I really do not see this as a big deal, as it was means mainly as a multi timbral synth.

The worst thing about this synth is probably that it would be dead expensive... but on the other hand, you could always add modules along the way.

It would also have to be able to play the modules polyphonically, so that you could put in 4 of the same module, and have a 32 voice synth...

...but I know this synth will never happen.... i just would like to pay around with such a synth that had four different types of synthesis on four layers, combining them into complete sounds... on the other hand... this could also be done by simply layering four synths, so maybe it's a bad idea anyway... just a quick synth brainstorm from me here :D

To be honest... i do not know what I would like to see from Sequential next... I'd like to see a new Tempest, but also a new digital FPGA front end synth... but I'd also like to see something inovative with synthesis types we have not seen yet... I'd actually like to see some physical modelling on the front end, with analog filters/vcas too...

If I had to choose one right now, it would probably be a new Tempest because I really do need a proper drummachine with analog filters/vcas that has both sample option and a synth voice (like on the Tempest), but with an added FX engine so that it can work stand alone without the need for a lot of external FX processing... the only drummachine at the moment that comes lose is the TR-8S, but it has no analog parts...

I can see a new Drum Machine coming maybe next year or so. They've discontinued the MophoX4, Prophet 12 and Pro2...and I would consider the Tempest part of that family.

Just hope they don't name it something stupid like the MetroGnome or BoomChick. Ugh.

A dedicated FM based Sequential synth may be cool. Paul Dither designed a concept for an 8 operator knob per function layout so it could be done and would be quite unique to the market.

Phsyical modelling would be interesting but I've always associated that type of synthesis with stage pianos.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on July 09, 2019, 03:49:57 PM
FM with analog filter/VCA would be cool, but it seriously need to be easy to program, which is a longshot when it comes to FM synthesis to be honest... maybe if they did it somewhat like the way KORG did it on their older DS-8 keyboard FM synth... You can already get FM'ish sounds on the Prophet 12, and also the PEAK. Also, if ever an FM synth, it should definitely be done in fast-rate FPGA synthesis, otherwise it will sound harsh because of aliasing etc.

Regarding the Prophet 12... the module has not been discontinued yet i believe... which is still puzzling me... I've come to the conclusion that it's probably been discontinued because Sequential are not buying any more of those keybeds they used in the Prophet 12 keyboard, since they switched to FATAR instead... otherwise I see no reason to discontinue that one, but not the module version... I asked Sequential about it in another thread, but they never responded to me, so I still do not know why it was discontinued.

But IF they ever make a new Tempest, I hope they limit it to 16 sounds, so that they can implement a proper MIDI specification where every drumsound can be externally controlled via MIDI on their own MIDI channel... the MIDI conscept of the current Tempest is really REALLY bad... and they also need to make sure it is well spec'ed, so they do not run out of flash/RAM or whatever... the FX section is mandatory in my opinion... it WILL NEED to be stand alone capable... also, the oscillators should be purely digital this time, so we can avoid those dreaded pops and clicks and unstable curtis chips... filters could be the new ones from the Prophet X. nd one function I'd like to see on such a Tempest; the round robin sample function, so that you can create several hits of the same drumsound, and make it sound more realistic.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on July 09, 2019, 04:17:47 PM
FM with analog filter/VCA would be cool, but it seriously need to be easy to program, which is a longshot when it comes to FM synthesis to be honest... maybe if they did it somewhat like the way KORG did it on their older DS-8 keyboard FM synth... You can already get FM'ish sounds on the Prophet 12, and also the PEAK. Also, if ever an FM synth, it should definitely be done in fast-rate FPGA synthesis, otherwise it will sound harsh because of aliasing etc.

Regarding the Prophet 12... the module has not been discontinued yet i believe... which is still puzzling me... I've come to the conclusion that it's probably been discontinued because Sequential are not buying any more of those keybeds they used in the Prophet 12 keyboard, since they switched to FATAR instead... otherwise I see no reason to discontinue that one, but not the module version... I asked Sequential about it in another thread, but they never responded to me, so I still do not know why it was discontinued.

But IF they ever make a new Tempest, I hope they limit it to 16 sounds, so that they can implement a proper MIDI specification where every drumsound can be externally controlled via MIDI on their own MIDI channel... the MIDI conscept of the current Tempest is really REALLY bad... and they also need to make sure it is well spec'ed, so they do not run out of flash/RAM or whatever... the FX section is mandatory in my opinion... it WILL NEED to be stand alone capable... also, the oscillators should be purely digital this time, so we can avoid those dreaded pops and clicks and unstable curtis chips... filters could be the new ones from the Prophet X. nd one function I'd like to see on such a Tempest; the round robin sample function, so that you can create several hits of the same drumsound, and make it sound more realistic.

I think Sequential is simply just keeping the P12 module around until the next synth drops. Maybe they are just clearing out old stock.

Well Roger Linn is working on a drum machine so we shall see how that goes...and the new SP-2400 from ISLA is something that's an instant buy for me once it becomes available.

I think where the Tempest and MIDI run into a problem for me is not being able to have multiple synth midi channels control multiple external mono synths. I love using it as a bass sequencer, just press play and have a massive bass sequence playing along with the drums and have my PX and Sub 37 layered on that channel...still I'd also like to be able to sequence something else on a different channel...but I guess that falls into MPC territory or just a dedicated sequencer territory. 
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on July 09, 2019, 04:47:12 PM
FM with analog filter/VCA would be cool, but it seriously need to be easy to program, which is a longshot when it comes to FM synthesis to be honest... maybe if they did it somewhat like the way KORG did it on their older DS-8 keyboard FM synth... You can already get FM'ish sounds on the Prophet 12, and also the PEAK. Also, if ever an FM synth, it should definitely be done in fast-rate FPGA synthesis, otherwise it will sound harsh because of aliasing etc.

Regarding the Prophet 12... the module has not been discontinued yet i believe... which is still puzzling me... I've come to the conclusion that it's probably been discontinued because Sequential are not buying any more of those keybeds they used in the Prophet 12 keyboard, since they switched to FATAR instead... otherwise I see no reason to discontinue that one, but not the module version... I asked Sequential about it in another thread, but they never responded to me, so I still do not know why it was discontinued.

But IF they ever make a new Tempest, I hope they limit it to 16 sounds, so that they can implement a proper MIDI specification where every drumsound can be externally controlled via MIDI on their own MIDI channel... the MIDI conscept of the current Tempest is really REALLY bad... and they also need to make sure it is well spec'ed, so they do not run out of flash/RAM or whatever... the FX section is mandatory in my opinion... it WILL NEED to be stand alone capable... also, the oscillators should be purely digital this time, so we can avoid those dreaded pops and clicks and unstable curtis chips... filters could be the new ones from the Prophet X. nd one function I'd like to see on such a Tempest; the round robin sample function, so that you can create several hits of the same drumsound, and make it sound more realistic.

I think Sequential is simply just keeping the P12 module around until the next synth drops. Maybe they are just clearing out old stock.

Well Roger Linn is working on a drum machine so we shall see how that goes...and the new SP-2400 from ISLA is something that's an instant buy for me once it becomes available.

I think where the Tempest and MIDI run into a problem for me is not being able to have multiple synth midi channels control multiple external mono synths. I love using it as a bass sequencer, just press play and have a massive bass sequence playing along with the drums and have my PX and Sub 37 layered on that channel...still I'd also like to be able to sequence something else on a different channel...but I guess that falls into MPC territory or just a dedicated sequencer territory.

A new Tempest could certainly control external gear... Sequential simply has to make sure it has enough power to perform, and if they keep to the 16 sounds concept, everything gets more streamlines MIDI wise since MIDI allow for only 16 channels... with this concept, and a MIDI output it should theoretically be able to control external gear on 16 channels, though it may give some problems with MIDI's limited bandwidth if 16 devices was to be controlled... for that more MIDI outputs would be required.

The nice thing about having each sound dedicated to it's own channel is that then you can control a sound externally via CCs and NRPN, and you would also be able to automate live tweaks to a sound by recording channel MIDI messages on an external sequencer... it will also make external editors possible, either with CC/NRPN or even SysEx control.

What I feel they forgot about the original Tempest is that not only live players would want to use it... people would want to use it in studios too, playing it as a sound module... I for one hate to program sequences in patterns, it's rather unintuitive for me... i want to be able to program my beats directly on tracks in my computer sequencer that then sends trigger note-ons to the Tempest along with automation data.... sure it should be capable of playing standalone with it's own cool sequencer, but I really think a new Tempest should be for both types of users...

Alternatively two versions of a Tempest could be made... one made for live usage, and another one which is more like an engine with studio use in mind... such a device could completely take out the sequencer part since playing it would be done from a sequencer on a DAW instead...
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on July 09, 2019, 05:16:44 PM
A modular non-modular poly -- I think I really like that concept.    ;D

I don't see that it's non-modular? ...
Modular because the 4 8-voice synth blocks are interchangeable.
Non-modular because each 8-voice module, as you described, is a self contained synth voice complete with modulation and effects (no wiring!) and, presumably, its own preset storage.  That sounds like a very non-modular synth voice to me.
... and Poly because, well, 32 voices rock!

Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: OceanMachine on July 10, 2019, 01:05:30 AM
Not to be pedantic, but regardless of how many "separate" (i.e. different voicing or even different architecture) eight voice polys you stack or split, you're still going to end up with an eight voice poly, albeit a highly multitimbral one. Though I'm sure that's not news to you.

Personally, despite only having six voices, my P6 covers all my analog needs. It's amazing how much you can do with only six voices, a single layer, and limited modulation. The only real limit I feel is use of the sustain pedal, which I've learned to minimize my use of. I've also found that stacking multiple layers all playing the same part is overbearing in most musical situations. If you want to let a composition speak, you don't really need a synth with complex modulation capabilities either. Now if you're looking for cool soundscapes, that's when you want complex modulation and thick layering. The only real other benefit (imo) is the ability for splits for live players that don't have the luxury of a multiple synth set up. Basically what I'm looking for is not more of the same, but a difference of kind. I'm looking for a digital synth that covers crystalline sounds, thus I might end up with a Novation Summit (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHGk7GbeXYU)
at some point depending on what Sequential does next. I also need a drum machine that's a) fun to play and b) has a good sequencer. Given it would have a synth engine as well with samples, I would be able to cover (or at least approximate) the colder toned synthesis I'm looking for to a degree I'd be satisfied with. That would kill two birds with one stone for me while keeping my setup simple.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on July 10, 2019, 01:33:16 AM
Not to be pedantic, but regardless of how many "separate" (i.e. different voicing or even different architecture) eight voice polys you stack or split, you're still going to end up with an eight voice poly, albeit a highly multitimbral one. Though I'm sure that's not news to you.

Personally, despite only having six voices, my P6 covers all my analog needs. It's amazing how much you can do with only six voices, a single layer, and limited modulation. The only real limit I feel is use of the sustain pedal, which I've learned to minimize my use of. I've also found that stacking multiple layers all playing the same part is overbearing in most musical situations. If you want to let a composition speak, you don't really need a synth with complex modulation capabilities either. Now if you're looking for cool soundscapes, that's when you want complex modulation and thick layering. The only real other benefit (imo) is the ability for splits for live players that don't have the luxury of a multiple synth set up. Basically what I'm looking for is not more of the same, but a difference of kind. I'm looking for a digital synth that covers crystalline sounds, thus I might end up with a Novation Summit (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHGk7GbeXYU)
at some point depending on what Sequential does next. I also need a drum machine that's a) fun to play and b) has a good sequencer. Given it would have a synth engine as well with samples, I would be able to cover (or at least approximate) the colder toned synthesis I'm looking for to a degree I'd be satisfied with. That would kill two birds with one stone for me while keeping my setup simple.

The Summit also has my attention, though I'd hope it comes out in a module version, otherwise I would have to find room for yet another keyboard that I do not have, or let go of my V-Synth GT... but that will not happen ... there is nothing like it out there.

Regarding the 8voices... if you were refering to my modular consept, no... if you put in 4 of the same module, and the multi setups can be set to use all four as a single synth, then you would potentially have a 32 voice polysynth... basically the REV2 is working like this... it's two separate synths capable of polychaining internally.

anyway... I'll jut wait and see what comes next... can't be that long until something new is revealed...
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Soundquest on July 10, 2019, 08:13:21 AM
Not to be pedantic, but regardless of how many "separate" (i.e. different voicing or even different architecture) eight voice polys you stack or split, you're still going to end up with an eight voice poly, albeit a highly multitimbral one. Though I'm sure that's not news to you.

Personally, despite only having six voices, my P6 covers all my analog needs. It's amazing how much you can do with only six voices, a single layer, and limited modulation. The only real limit I feel is use of the sustain pedal, which I've learned to minimize my use of. I've also found that stacking multiple layers all playing the same part is overbearing in most musical situations. If you want to let a composition speak, you don't really need a synth with complex modulation capabilities either. Now if you're looking for cool soundscapes, that's when you want complex modulation and thick layering. The only real other benefit (imo) is the ability for splits for live players that don't have the luxury of a multiple synth set up. Basically what I'm looking for is not more of the same, but a difference of kind. I'm looking for a digital synth that covers crystalline sounds, thus I might end up with a Novation Summit (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHGk7GbeXYU)
at some point depending on what Sequential does next. I also need a drum machine that's a) fun to play and b) has a good sequencer. Given it would have a synth engine as well with samples, I would be able to cover (or at least approximate) the colder toned synthesis I'm looking for to a degree I'd be satisfied with. That would kill two birds with one stone for me while keeping my setup simple.

I whole heartedly agree Ocean Machine.   If I need layers and layers then I'll slap on a midi cable to another synth. Rather than trying to out-size the competition with everything under the sun in one box,  I much rather see Sequential keep it focus on keeping a good interface and perhaps tucking in some innovative niche to it.   That's basically what happened with PEK.  So, a revision of PEK with some expanded fm, and easier importing of waveform abilities would be great.   
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: chysn on July 10, 2019, 11:41:39 AM
INHALT (Matia Simovich) is selling a Pro-One on the Facebook Marketplace. In his description, he says, "Selling because I know something you don’t lol." He's done lots of sounds for current Sequential instruments, so it seems quite probable that he knows something that we don't. What could he know, that we don't, that would cause him to sell his Pro-One?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on July 10, 2019, 12:31:24 PM
INHALT (Matia Simovich) is selling a Pro-One on the Facebook Marketplace. In his description, he says, "Selling because I know something you don’t lol." He's done lots of sounds for current Sequential instruments, so it seems quite probable that he knows something that we don't. What could he know, that we don't, that would cause him to sell his Pro-One?

Maybe something to hit back at Behringer? Though I believe it would probably be somwthing that will not catch my attention, if that is what it is... I see no reason to sell a Pro One, if the secret thing cannot stand in for it...
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: chysn on July 10, 2019, 04:50:38 PM
Though I believe it would probably be somwthing that will not catch my attention, if that is what it is... I see no reason to sell a Pro One, if the secret thing cannot stand in for it...

It would totally catch my attention.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on July 10, 2019, 06:42:42 PM
INHALT (Matia Simovich) is selling a Pro-One on the Facebook Marketplace. In his description, he says, "Selling because I know something you don’t lol." He's done lots of sounds for current Sequential instruments, so it seems quite probable that he knows something that we don't. What could he know, that we don't, that would cause him to sell his Pro-One?

I've been pretty bored with DSI's/Sequential's last few instruments.  Something like a Pro One could change that.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on July 10, 2019, 08:49:12 PM
I would say an analog mono synth is probably the most boring thing Sequential could come up with. Never understood the mindset of following up a shooting with a stabbing. 
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on July 10, 2019, 10:23:24 PM
Though I believe it would probably be somwthing that will not catch my attention, if that is what it is... I see no reason to sell a Pro One, if the secret thing cannot stand in for it...

It would totally catch my attention.

Sure... each to his own, I just will not settle with any monosynth again... only polysynths, so if it's a monosynth, great, just not for me.

I'm not even sure I'd want one if it's simply a polyphonic Pro One (in which case it would probably not be named that)... it would have to have a very deep engine, and some really interesting character to get me hooked up. At least 16 voices, and an engine as deep as a REV2 might make me swap, otherwise not.

I'm thinking that maybe the ONE has inspired mr. Dave to go out of his limits though... I have this feeling it'll be an expensive thing, and such a high end polyphonic "Pro One" with large display and a very deep engine might make some sell their Pro One I guess... but really there is no need in guessing... we will just have to wait and see... but if it's in the Prophet X kind of price range and above, it will most likely not catch my attention.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Manbird on July 11, 2019, 10:44:29 AM
I'm not sure I've ever chimed in on this thread - I watch one suggestion after the next fly way over my head. Lots of X's and 32s and stereo digital filters. Funny thing, though, with fresh talk of the Pro One, I finally feel I can say "What synth Sequential should make next..." If anyone wants to conjure a polyphonic Pro One, with a slightly sturdier build than the original synth, I'm keen. Maybe 6 voices, but I'd work with 5. No patch memory. MIDI control, but barely! I'm being sincere, if totally unrealistic. I went back to my Pro One the other night - came up so easily with the right sound for the song I was working on. So easy, and so satisfying. The Pro One is a pleasure to play. My Prophet 6 is my alpha/omega, generally, but the Pro One really has Thang, right? And after a somewhat recent acquisition of a Juno 6, I now know I don't need patch memory even with a poly synth. But with yet another trip to the repair shop pending, my poor Pro One wishes it was thirty years younger all over again. Maybe I'm picturing a quaint anti-tech tech revolution, where playability and musical enjoyability don't need to be Flagshipped every time, but yeah - an instrument that sounds as righteous as the Pro One and is as easy to lose one's sense of time with, but all polyphony'd - I'd love it.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on July 11, 2019, 06:02:58 PM
Ant, what would be the difference between the Prophet 6 and the six-voice Pro-One you describe?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on July 11, 2019, 06:16:41 PM
Ant, what would be the difference between the Prophet 6 and the six-voice Pro-One you describe?
... the Prophet 6 is more versatile.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: OceanMachine on July 11, 2019, 07:00:16 PM
Pro-One used CEM chips that the Rev 3 used, which according to general consensus didn't sound as good as the SSM chips from the Rev 1&2. Considering the P6 has discrete SSM-based components, the P6 seems more desirable on those grounds as well.

Hope it's not a mono (especially an analog one) and if it's anything without patch memory, it can take a hike.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on July 11, 2019, 08:09:21 PM
Perhaps Dave and Tom worked out a deal where they are going to start releases Oberheim based products?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: OceanMachine on July 11, 2019, 08:51:56 PM
A knobby Matrix-12 re-imagining with SEMs (use the same OB-6 voice cards) instead of the CEMs of the original. I mean, the 08/REV2 is kinda Dave's knobby DCO version of the Matrix-12 already in a way... For my wallet's sake, I hope that doesn't happen anytime soon since that's the only analog synth I'd break the bank for.  :P
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Manbird on July 12, 2019, 01:26:20 AM
Ant, what would be the difference between the Prophet 6 and the six-voice Pro-One you describe?

The Pro One has a much looser tone than the Prophet 6, probably partly due to the former being over 200 years old! In my fantasy, the lack of patch memory is very appealing. And no matter how much I love my Prophet 6, it's a clean and precise machine, sonically and programming-wise. The Pro One has a very different "hands on" response, and it gets me where I need to be quickly every time. I guess what I'm really saying is I'd like a Prophet 6 with a dumber, dirtier sound with fewer features!
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on July 12, 2019, 02:36:23 AM
It's 2019, PLEASE include patch memory! ... if anyone do not want to use patch memory it is already possible on the P6 in manual mode, so I see absolutely NO REASON to write of a whole group of users that need patch memory... I for one will not buy anything again without preset memory... I do not want to spend hours on designing sounds at the same time that i compose, so presets are an absolute must here.

I can understand the "no presets" approach to save some design cost, if the synth is a limited one, with not too many parameters though... but any synth without preset storage would need to have EVERY parameter on the user interface which greatly lowers the complexity of the synth.

This is why I do not have either P6 or OB-6 ... even though they have preset memory, their enigines was deliberately made limited so that everything could have it's own front panel knob/button etc... I see no reason to get a P6, when a REV2 is sooooo much deeper to be honest... yes, it may have an advantage in it's sound character, but it sure as hell don't even comes close to the REV2's depth and broad range of sounds it can make...

I still think that the most logical to do next would be an FPGA digital front-end polysynth to replace the Prophet 12, or a new iteration of the Tempest... but as most times, Dave will probably surprise with something else.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on July 12, 2019, 02:43:23 AM
I've also thought, that maybe Dave has gotten inspired to try and take up the battle with MOOG ONE and Waldorf QUANTUM... that would also be a smart move, and if Dave is up for challenges, certainly a classy challenge... I'm just not sure my wallet would like that challenge  :o
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on July 12, 2019, 04:12:19 AM
As much as I want a larger VCO based poly analog from Sequential, I think it becomes problematic as it’s a constant battle between loads of features vs sonic quality vs price.

Even though the general consensus is the P6/OB6 sound better than the REV2, the REV2 has way more features and modulation capabilities than either of them and applying that number of features to a VCO based synth leads to Moog One price territory which most people refuse to pay so why bother dabbling in it? Dave’s approach seems to be “If you want this buy X, if you want that, buy Y” perhaps that is a better way to go rather than trying to please everyone on a single instrument.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on July 12, 2019, 05:05:39 AM
As much as I want a larger VCO based poly analog from Sequential, I think it becomes problematic as it’s a constant battle between loads of features vs sonic quality vs price.

Even though the general consensus is the P6/OB6 sound better than the REV2, the REV2 has way more features and modulation capabilities than either of them and applying that number of features to a VCO based synth leads to Moog One price territory which most people refuse to pay so why bother dabbling in it? Dave’s approach seems to be “If you want this buy X, if you want that, buy Y” perhaps that is a better way to go rather than trying to please everyone on a single instrument.

I surely also would want to see a niche product... but I do not see why this would have to sacrifice depth of the engine, preset capabilities and other things that would make it compete with either ONE or QUANTUM... Creating sounds I've learned that half the power of a synth lies in it's modulation capabilities, so maybe it would be a smart move to start evolving this area of a Sequential synth?

If you look closely at the engine itself (looking past the type of oscillators, filters and vcas plus FX), then the engine controlling these elements have not changed much over the years... in fact some rather nice features of older products have disappeared, like the gated sequencer... i feel that A LOT could be put into enhancing the engine too, instead of only focusing on the type of VCOs and Filters... also more thought put into the actual routing options could also be improved on... it's a long time since we've seen something with a unique routing like the stereo-routing of the old Evolvers. Also the mod matrix could need a HUGE makeover... there are loads of ideas for expanding this part of the engine with new sources and destination, and even expand it with some math modules to interact with multiple sources before they hit the destination... take a look at the sources and destinations of the Hypersynth Xenophone, and you'll get what I mean I think.

Take a look at the modulating world of eurorack systems... there are loads of modules here that are inovative and fun... why not implement new digital "modules" into the engine of a Sequential synth, and let them be available with their outputs in the mod matrix's sources, and also make their controls be destinations? ... modulation features are disappearing on Sequential synths... just take the example of not even having included a simple lag processor for the REV2 LFO's ...

I'd like to see more new ideas in these areas, as well as a digital FPGA front-end... also a vastly expanded FX section with more slots, more routing options etc. and simultaneous use of all FX like on the PEAK.

When I see many other people describing what they want, it's always about what VCO type, what Filter type, how many knobs/sliders and buttons etc... rarely does anyone talk about what they want from the modulation engine, and I actually believe that with all those analog/hybrid polysynths out there now, more focus will be needed on the modulation engine and FX to actually set your synth apart from the rest.... at least if you want to make a sound designer type of user curious  ;D

Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Manbird on July 12, 2019, 05:29:42 AM
It's 2019, PLEASE include patch memory! ... if anyone do not want to use patch memory it is already possible on the P6 in manual mode, so I see absolutely NO REASON to write of a whole group of users that need patch memory... I for one will not buy anything again without preset memory... I do not want to spend hours on designing sounds at the same time that i compose, so presets are an absolute must here.

I can understand the "no presets" approach to save some design cost, if the synth is a limited one, with not too many parameters though... but any synth without preset storage would need to have EVERY parameter on the user interface which greatly lowers the complexity of the synth.

This is why I do not have either P6 or OB-6 ... even though they have preset memory, their enigines was deliberately made limited so that everything could have it's own front panel knob/button etc... I see no reason to get a P6, when a REV2 is sooooo much deeper to be honest... yes, it may have an advantage in it's sound character, but it sure as hell don't even comes close to the REV2's depth and broad range of sounds it can make...

I still think that the most logical to do next would be an FPGA digital front-end polysynth to replace the Prophet 12, or a new iteration of the Tempest... but as most times, Dave will probably surprise with something else.

Please understand I'm not trying to suggest my quaint notion of a next Sequential synth as realistic, right? It's just me being whimsical. Besides being a synth-player for most of my life, I'm now also a frequent forum reader/participant. It's fun and fascinating to see how varied people's requirements and requests can be, and I'm only putting my "next synth" wish out for amusement. I'd never knock anyone for their interest in highly-capable, complex instruments, but for me, the more music I make, the more I appreciate my instruments in a basic way. I love the sound of the Prophet 6, and it never occurs to me it's not "deep" enough or should have more modulation options. It does what it does, and it fits what I do. It sounds good, feels good to play. Still, my "suggestion" of a polyphonic Pro One does speak to my own desire for simplicity. Not that the music I make is always simple, but I'm less and less reliant on more and more gear to make the kind of mess that satisfies me.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on July 12, 2019, 07:29:08 AM
It's 2019, PLEASE include patch memory! ... if anyone do not want to use patch memory it is already possible on the P6 in manual mode, so I see absolutely NO REASON to write of a whole group of users that need patch memory... I for one will not buy anything again without preset memory... I do not want to spend hours on designing sounds at the same time that i compose, so presets are an absolute must here.

I can understand the "no presets" approach to save some design cost, if the synth is a limited one, with not too many parameters though... but any synth without preset storage would need to have EVERY parameter on the user interface which greatly lowers the complexity of the synth.

This is why I do not have either P6 or OB-6 ... even though they have preset memory, their enigines was deliberately made limited so that everything could have it's own front panel knob/button etc... I see no reason to get a P6, when a REV2 is sooooo much deeper to be honest... yes, it may have an advantage in it's sound character, but it sure as hell don't even comes close to the REV2's depth and broad range of sounds it can make...

I still think that the most logical to do next would be an FPGA digital front-end polysynth to replace the Prophet 12, or a new iteration of the Tempest... but as most times, Dave will probably surprise with something else.

Please understand I'm not trying to suggest my quaint notion of a next Sequential synth as realistic, right? It's just me being whimsical. Besides being a synth-player for most of my life, I'm now also a frequent forum reader/participant. It's fun and fascinating to see how varied people's requirements and requests can be, and I'm only putting my "next synth" wish out for amusement. I'd never knock anyone for their interest in highly-capable, complex instruments, but for me, the more music I make, the more I appreciate my instruments in a basic way. I love the sound of the Prophet 6, and it never occurs to me it's not "deep" enough or should have more modulation options. It does what it does, and it fits what I do. It sounds good, feels good to play. Still, my "suggestion" of a polyphonic Pro One does speak to my own desire for simplicity. Not that the music I make is always simple, but I'm less and less reliant on more and more gear to make the kind of mess that satisfies me.

And that's probably why we have so different requirements... because we do different things with out synths, and maybe because we work differently because of that... simplicity is fine if that's enough for someone, I've tried that route too, but I always went back to complex synths with presets, it fits my workflow a lot better, and my genre of choise is Ambient styles, thus being in need of heavy modulation options more than some particular synth character etc... to me the modulations ARE the character I need.

By the way, i never intended to diss other peoples wishes, I'm talking solely on behalf of my own wishes just like anyone else... besides, our wishes often don't even matter, Sequential do what they want anyway... I see this whole thread as "wishful thinking" to be honest... a sharing af "dreams" ... maybe with a bit of hope springled on top... If it is a polyphonic Pro-1 I'm happy for those that want that... it's just not for me... I'll just wait until my time comes... but as many companies listen a bit to what customers want, I found it important to balance the talk in this thread so that all types of wishes are represented here (in case Sequential DO listen)... just want them to know that the sound designers are here too, and waiting for new interresting stuff, not just the analog VCO polysynth freaks  ;)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Manbird on July 12, 2019, 12:17:37 PM
It's 2019, PLEASE include patch memory! ... if anyone do not want to use patch memory it is already possible on the P6 in manual mode, so I see absolutely NO REASON to write of a whole group of users that need patch memory... I for one will not buy anything again without preset memory... I do not want to spend hours on designing sounds at the same time that i compose, so presets are an absolute must here.

I can understand the "no presets" approach to save some design cost, if the synth is a limited one, with not too many parameters though... but any synth without preset storage would need to have EVERY parameter on the user interface which greatly lowers the complexity of the synth.

This is why I do not have either P6 or OB-6 ... even though they have preset memory, their enigines was deliberately made limited so that everything could have it's own front panel knob/button etc... I see no reason to get a P6, when a REV2 is sooooo much deeper to be honest... yes, it may have an advantage in it's sound character, but it sure as hell don't even comes close to the REV2's depth and broad range of sounds it can make...

I still think that the most logical to do next would be an FPGA digital front-end polysynth to replace the Prophet 12, or a new iteration of the Tempest... but as most times, Dave will probably surprise with something else.

Please understand I'm not trying to suggest my quaint notion of a next Sequential synth as realistic, right? It's just me being whimsical. Besides being a synth-player for most of my life, I'm now also a frequent forum reader/participant. It's fun and fascinating to see how varied people's requirements and requests can be, and I'm only putting my "next synth" wish out for amusement. I'd never knock anyone for their interest in highly-capable, complex instruments, but for me, the more music I make, the more I appreciate my instruments in a basic way. I love the sound of the Prophet 6, and it never occurs to me it's not "deep" enough or should have more modulation options. It does what it does, and it fits what I do. It sounds good, feels good to play. Still, my "suggestion" of a polyphonic Pro One does speak to my own desire for simplicity. Not that the music I make is always simple, but I'm less and less reliant on more and more gear to make the kind of mess that satisfies me.

And that's probably why we have so different requirements... because we do different things with out synths, and maybe because we work differently because of that... simplicity is fine if that's enough for someone, I've tried that route too, but I always went back to complex synths with presets, it fits my workflow a lot better, and my genre of choise is Ambient styles, thus being in need of heavy modulation options more than some particular synth character etc... to me the modulations ARE the character I need.

By the way, i never intended to diss other peoples wishes, I'm talking solely on behalf of my own wishes just like anyone else... besides, our wishes often don't even matter, Sequential do what they want anyway... I see this whole thread as "wishful thinking" to be honest... a sharing af "dreams" ... maybe with a bit of hope springled on top... If it is a polyphonic Pro-1 I'm happy for those that want that... it's just not for me... I'll just wait until my time comes... but as many companies listen a bit to what customers want, I found it important to balance the talk in this thread so that all types of wishes are represented here (in case Sequential DO listen)... just want them to know that the sound designers are here too, and waiting for new interresting stuff, not just the analog VCO polysynth freaks  ;)

I didn't think there was any diss in your comment, and I hope my own previous wasn't oddly tonal! This is one of the threads I read most often, yet have never felt qualified to comment on. I think I was just sowing some retro oats. I'm not fixated on the past, but nor do I feel drawn to keep up with the latest anything. Obviously the analog(ue) resurgence has hit many of us in a sweet spot, and now many are excited again about FM, so we're all part of a curious circle, forward into the past and vice versa. I think your suggestions for new synths/features probably have far more chance of resonating with a contemporary synth designer than mine. I mean, I'm basically asking, "Can we reinvent the wheel, but make it not as round?" Thankfully, there's room for every kind of synth and any kind of suggestion. (Except now I've convinced myself I really do want a polyphonic Pro One! Dave...? Please?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on July 12, 2019, 02:28:13 PM
As much as I want a larger VCO based poly analog from Sequential, I think it becomes problematic as it’s a constant battle between loads of features vs sonic quality vs price.

Even though the general consensus is the P6/OB6 sound better than the REV2, the REV2 has way more features and modulation capabilities than either of them and applying that number of features to a VCO based synth leads to Moog One price territory which most people refuse to pay so why bother dabbling in it? Dave’s approach seems to be “If you want this buy X, if you want that, buy Y” perhaps that is a better way to go rather than trying to please everyone on a single instrument.

I surely also would want to see a niche product... but I do not see why this would have to sacrifice depth of the engine, preset capabilities and other things that would make it compete with either ONE or QUANTUM... Creating sounds I've learned that half the power of a synth lies in it's modulation capabilities, so maybe it would be a smart move to start evolving this area of a Sequential synth?

If you look closely at the engine itself (looking past the type of oscillators, filters and vcas plus FX), then the engine controlling these elements have not changed much over the years... in fact some rather nice features of older products have disappeared, like the gated sequencer... i feel that A LOT could be put into enhancing the engine too, instead of only focusing on the type of VCOs and Filters... also more thought put into the actual routing options could also be improved on... it's a long time since we've seen something with a unique routing like the stereo-routing of the old Evolvers. Also the mod matrix could need a HUGE makeover... there are loads of ideas for expanding this part of the engine with new sources and destination, and even expand it with some math modules to interact with multiple sources before they hit the destination... take a look at the sources and destinations of the Hypersynth Xenophone, and you'll get what I mean I think.

Take a look at the modulating world of eurorack systems... there are loads of modules here that are inovative and fun... why not implement new digital "modules" into the engine of a Sequential synth, and let them be available with their outputs in the mod matrix's sources, and also make their controls be destinations? ... modulation features are disappearing on Sequential synths... just take the example of not even having included a simple lag processor for the REV2 LFO's ...

I'd like to see more new ideas in these areas, as well as a digital FPGA front-end... also a vastly expanded FX section with more slots, more routing options etc. and simultaneous use of all FX like on the PEAK.

When I see many other people describing what they want, it's always about what VCO type, what Filter type, how many knobs/sliders and buttons etc... rarely does anyone talk about what they want from the modulation engine, and I actually believe that with all those analog/hybrid polysynths out there now, more focus will be needed on the modulation engine and FX to actually set your synth apart from the rest.... at least if you want to make a sound designer type of user curious  ;D

Well the problem is people don’t want to pay for that. You had all the modulation depth and polyphony you are speaking of in the Moog One but everyone thought the price was outrageous...they also felt similarly about the Quantum’s price if I remember correctly. Even in the Eurorack and Modular world when people see the price for a full system with all the bells and whistles they complain.

This is why I feel is a bad move to try and move in that direction for Sequential. People demand all the polyphony and features but want to only pay $1500 for it. Why bother? Everyone moaned about the Prophet X’s And XL’s prices and even complained about the P6 and OB6 prices. Why keep going down that road when most people chicken out once their dream synth is presented to them?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on July 12, 2019, 02:29:43 PM
Oh come on Sequential obviously do listen to these threads....I should know ;)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on July 12, 2019, 04:08:22 PM
As much as I want a larger VCO based poly analog from Sequential, I think it becomes problematic as it’s a constant battle between loads of features vs sonic quality vs price.

Even though the general consensus is the P6/OB6 sound better than the REV2, the REV2 has way more features and modulation capabilities than either of them and applying that number of features to a VCO based synth leads to Moog One price territory which most people refuse to pay so why bother dabbling in it? Dave’s approach seems to be “If you want this buy X, if you want that, buy Y” perhaps that is a better way to go rather than trying to please everyone on a single instrument.

I surely also would want to see a niche product... but I do not see why this would have to sacrifice depth of the engine, preset capabilities and other things that would make it compete with either ONE or QUANTUM... Creating sounds I've learned that half the power of a synth lies in it's modulation capabilities, so maybe it would be a smart move to start evolving this area of a Sequential synth?

If you look closely at the engine itself (looking past the type of oscillators, filters and vcas plus FX), then the engine controlling these elements have not changed much over the years... in fact some rather nice features of older products have disappeared, like the gated sequencer... i feel that A LOT could be put into enhancing the engine too, instead of only focusing on the type of VCOs and Filters... also more thought put into the actual routing options could also be improved on... it's a long time since we've seen something with a unique routing like the stereo-routing of the old Evolvers. Also the mod matrix could need a HUGE makeover... there are loads of ideas for expanding this part of the engine with new sources and destination, and even expand it with some math modules to interact with multiple sources before they hit the destination... take a look at the sources and destinations of the Hypersynth Xenophone, and you'll get what I mean I think.

Take a look at the modulating world of eurorack systems... there are loads of modules here that are inovative and fun... why not implement new digital "modules" into the engine of a Sequential synth, and let them be available with their outputs in the mod matrix's sources, and also make their controls be destinations? ... modulation features are disappearing on Sequential synths... just take the example of not even having included a simple lag processor for the REV2 LFO's ...

I'd like to see more new ideas in these areas, as well as a digital FPGA front-end... also a vastly expanded FX section with more slots, more routing options etc. and simultaneous use of all FX like on the PEAK.

When I see many other people describing what they want, it's always about what VCO type, what Filter type, how many knobs/sliders and buttons etc... rarely does anyone talk about what they want from the modulation engine, and I actually believe that with all those analog/hybrid polysynths out there now, more focus will be needed on the modulation engine and FX to actually set your synth apart from the rest.... at least if you want to make a sound designer type of user curious  ;D

Well the problem is people don’t want to pay for that. You had all the modulation depth and polyphony you are speaking of in the Moog One but everyone thought the price was outrageous...they also felt similarly about the Quantum’s price if I remember correctly. Even in the Eurorack and Modular world when people see the price for a full system with all the bells and whistles they complain.

This is why I feel is a bad move to try and move in that direction for Sequential. People demand all the polyphony and features but want to only pay $1500 for it. Why bother? Everyone moaned about the Prophet X’s And XL’s prices and even complained about the P6 and OB6 prices. Why keep going down that road when most people chicken out once their dream synth is presented to them?

Modulation is not what would be the costly part... that is mainly code that control all the normal parts like oscillator parameters, filter parameters and vca parameters... these have control signals anyway in the cheaper synths if they have presets, otherwise it would not be possible to create preset memory... thus an extended engine is merely a question of creating the modulation options in code.... so no... just because you created a deeper engine it would not mean that it gets very expensive... of course someone has to get paid for creating the code, but still... the real cost I would say is the hardware... the number of components, and also all the control panel knobs, buttons etc... the design of the hardware in general.

Even just expanding the REV2 with a deeper engine would make it much more powerful in regard to modulation, using the same architecture and hardware design... and what I'm talking about is solely the software side of things... the so called "code engine".

Some examples of what could make the REV2 more powerful with just some OS code updates:

1. An LFO Lag processor
2. Enhanced sequencer with individual note lengths and parameter locking of parameters
3. build in curve parameter for the envelope's Attack, Decay and Release parameters
4. Arpeggiator rhythm patterns
5. Better reverb FX algorithm
6. math "machines" to combine more sources in various ways before reaching the destination
7. more LFO shapes, LFO fade in/out parameters etc.

there are many ways that the engine options could be expanded on, on Sequential synths, to make them even more powerful for sound design.

Thing is... it gets a little boring that the only modulators we ever see in synths are LFO's and Envelopes... there are plenty of eurorack modules with both the weird and the wonderful when it comes to innovative modulation ideas, and as long as it's only a modulator (has no audio path), it can be done in software.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: OceanMachine on July 12, 2019, 07:01:57 PM
LFOs are good with me, but I would prefer an onboard designer for user creations or at least a slew parameter. Ofc repeating envelopes is a nice option as well.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on July 12, 2019, 10:20:39 PM
I would actually like to see some more exotic effects to be honest like reverse delays, harmonizer, and maybe just maybe...a vocoder.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on July 13, 2019, 02:35:39 AM
I would actually like to see some more exotic effects to be honest like reverse delays, harmonizer, and maybe just maybe...a vocoder.

Me too... but for some reason it seems that the way FX are made on DSI synths they can only hold a certain number of them... Sequential never explained why this is, but if you look at all the synths with their current FX engine, none have had any additional FX added, even if this is something most users have requested... so this is a department that Sequential could certainly better themselves at because compared to other newer synths like ONE, PEAK, DM12, QUANTUM, Minilogue XD etc. the Sequential FX engine is really lacking behind.

They would need to make more FX slots, and also let the user decide the routing of them. They would also need to make the FX slots available at the same time in these configurations... all the above synths i mentioned have this. Also they should include more parameters, not just a measly 2-3... They do not need to make dosens of parameters per FX algorithm, but definitely more than 2-3, especially on the delay and reverb algorithms. Also, the reverb algorithms should have some way of modulating the signal... reverb modulation is key to getting really lush and dense sounding reverbs... Currently (on the REV2) I have to fake this by using a second layer with FX mix set to "100% wet" and copying the other layer's sound and putting vibrato on it to get the reverb modulated... it's a waste of half the voices.

so no matter what synth Sequential does, I certainly hope that they will up their FX engine a bit... it's starting to look pale when you compare it to the other synths out there right now that has FX built in... either do it right, or completely remove the FX all together. To me, FX is an integral part of designing a sound/preset, and thus a very impotant aspect of a preset sound. The FX engine many doubles your creative options in sound design, it's the icing on the cake.

And if Dave is not up for the task, or don't want to bother with it, he could team up with a good DSP coder to do it for him... he's worked with others in collaborations before... I'd wish he gave the owner of ValhallaDSP a call, and arranged something with them... they know how to create really good reverbs.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on July 13, 2019, 02:44:35 AM
[…] if you look at all the synths with their current FX engine, none have had any additional FX added […]

That's technically not true. Phaser 3 and Ring Modulation were added to the Prophet-6 soon after the release of the OB-6.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on July 13, 2019, 03:03:57 AM
[…] if you look at all the synths with their current FX engine, none have had any additional FX added […]

That's technically not true. Phaser 3 and Ring Modulation were added to the Prophet-6 soon after the release of the OB-6.

Then why did Sequential on other occasions where people requested new FX on other of their synths tell us that it is not possible?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on July 13, 2019, 03:13:38 AM
This is a quote from Sequential in the REV2 Feature Request thread:

"We don't have enough DSP horsepower remaining to add additional FX to the Prophet Rev2."

... now I do not know why DSP horsepower should be a problem as REV2 is only one FX at a time, all the FX do not run at all times I believe, so why is it not possible to add more? is it an algorithm code-space limitation perhaps?... i asked about this in the feature request thread after this statement was given, but i never got an answer to it... this just shows that the FX engine is underpowered for any enhancements with this DSP unit they're using... this is something they could definitely expand upon.

An explanation to why it was possible with the OB-6 could be that it either have a more powerful DSP chip, or that it actually use two of them... as far as I know, the OB-6, P6 and PX all have two FX slots per layer, and as only one of them hold the delays and reverbs, then maybe the other one holding only the modulation FX had space left and juice to add the Ringmod etc? REV2 only have one FX slot per layer, which (in my opinion) was probably a wrong design choice... the REV2 would have been much more powerful if it had two like the other synths... but I suppose that was a cost saving decision.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: OceanMachine on July 13, 2019, 10:10:42 AM
The same thing was said about the Tempest, so perhaps some forward thinking in building machines with more headroom is required. It would be nice to see some regular substantial updates like Novation have been doing with the Peak and Bass Station II. How Yamaha have overhauled the Montage with yearly OS updates that add tons of new features. How Waldorf did almost immediately with the Kernel update for the Quantum. Etc. Etc. The most major update DSI did was with the FM update for the P12 and Pro 2, which was very nice ofc. Heck, as a P6 user, I'd just be happy (if possible) if the super plate from the PX was transferred over. Now that synths are so easily update-able, support of these machines throughout their lifespan will help maintain interest. Again, Peak is a perfect example as a major positive shift in the way folks viewed it occurred directly because of the update. I know the same could have been said about the Tempest's image had the same been the case.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Soundquest on July 23, 2019, 10:21:59 AM
So everyone's scratching their head and making wild guesses...me too.  Would it be bad business practice for Sequential to at least announce a general realm of what this next instrument might be?  For example, I might sit tight and not invest in another manufacturer if I definitively knew something in my spectrum of liking was coming down the pike.  Preemptively they might preserve more of the potential buyers wallets to open in their direction.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on July 23, 2019, 03:33:22 PM
So everyone's scratching their head and making wild guesses...me too.  Would it be bad business practice for Sequential to at least announce a general realm of what this next instrument might be?  For example, I might sit tight and not invest in another manufacturer if I definitively knew something in my spectrum of liking was coming down the pike.  Preemptively they might preserve more of the potential buyers wallets to open in their direction.

Nah, they never have done that. They always catch people by surprise and honestly with the quality of craftsmanship and uniqueness of their instruments more people would likely gravitate towards them than any other manufacturer. Plus this avoids potential leeches trying to steal their thunder.

That’s just my opinion, at the end of the day, people will buy what they desire regardless.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: DaveP6guy on July 25, 2019, 01:22:20 PM
This is the place to dream about what you'd like to see DSI make next.

Personally, I'm still awaiting "the big one," the sort of large-scale polyphonic bi-timbral synthesizer, strong in the fundamentals of synthesis but not loaded down with additional features, that would be a worthy replacement for the Prophet '08.  In fact, the Prophet '08 is a great place to start. 

I sent a suggestion by email. it was poo-pooed a little.

A 12 voice polysynth, bi-timbral, etc. Anyway, who cares? Moog did the Moog One now with 16 voices if you have $7999 to spare, or £7999 in the UK!

Maybe Dave Smith got wind of the Moog1 and stayed purposely away from that area?

I bet VCO synths are a minefield, business-wise. They were i=even in the 70s and 80s!

Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on July 25, 2019, 06:08:21 PM
This is the place to dream about what you'd like to see DSI make next.

Personally, I'm still awaiting "the big one," the sort of large-scale polyphonic bi-timbral synthesizer, strong in the fundamentals of synthesis but not loaded down with additional features, that would be a worthy replacement for the Prophet '08.  In fact, the Prophet '08 is a great place to start. 

I sent a suggestion by email. it was poo-pooed a little.

A 12 voice polysynth, bi-timbral, etc. Anyway, who cares? Moog did the Moog One now with 16 voices if you have $7999 to spare, or £7999 in the UK!

Maybe Dave Smith got wind of the Moog1 and stayed purposely away from that area?

I bet VCO synths are a minefield, business-wise. They were i=even in the 70s and 80s!

The one thing Dave could do VCO wise that would blow everyone out of the water is a modern take on the Prophet T8...somehow, someway reverse engineer the Polyphonic aftertouch key bed they had. Actually I think any synth company that somehow works with Fatar or whoever into developing a synth with a built in Polyphonic aftertouch keyboard is going to be hailed as king.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: chysn on July 25, 2019, 06:21:25 PM
I bet VCO synths are a minefield, business-wise. They were i=even in the 70s and 80s!

I don't understand the technological barrier to VCOs. Eurorack is embarrassingly loaded with great-sounding, full-featured, inexpensive VCOs with rock-solid tracking, and they don't even have the luxury of producing them on a huge scale.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on July 30, 2019, 05:33:19 PM
New interview with Dave...


https://youtu.be/P8PDs0VAs3I (https://youtu.be/P8PDs0VAs3I)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on July 31, 2019, 12:47:21 AM
Well... now we know why no Sequential/DSI instruments have sliders ...
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on July 31, 2019, 12:47:03 PM
What a shame.  I always liked sliders, and preferred the Odyssey to the Minimoog.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: jg666 on August 01, 2019, 03:40:25 AM
Well I for one am hoping that the next synth comes out soon before the £ drops even further and makes everything too expensive in the UK :)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on August 01, 2019, 04:17:53 AM
Well I for one am hoping that the next synth comes out soon before the £ drops even further and makes everything too expensive in the UK :)

It’s been that way for Canadians for a while. My Prophet 6 was $4K and my Prophet X was close to $7K.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Extrasensor on August 02, 2019, 12:50:45 PM
I personnaly would like a rack (yes, please, enough of desktop) compatible new Prophet VS.
Since the Pro2 is not retired, a kinda mix of Pro2 & VS would be particularly cool !
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Kja on August 03, 2019, 03:29:05 AM
I bet VCO synths are a minefield, business-wise. They were i=even in the 70s and 80s!

I don't understand the technological barrier to VCOs. Eurorack is embarrassingly loaded with great-sounding, full-featured, inexpensive VCOs with rock-solid tracking, and they don't even have the luxury of producing them on a huge scale.
VCO's are not hard, is getting them to play nicely polyphonically that is tricky. Very few have been able to program that type of control software, Dave being one of them, although he got a lot of help with the prophet 5.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: OceanMachine on August 21, 2019, 11:50:27 AM
Despite its faults, the Tempest is still imo the best drum machine of all time. What I really want most is a Tempest X, so I've decided to put money aside in anticipation for that, even though according to Dave's comments it's safe to assume it's not coming next. The TX will be my next gear purchase (if it ever really does become a thing) unless Roger releases his supposed LinnDrum 2 in the meantime and it turns out amazing.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on August 29, 2019, 08:41:40 PM
To be honest...I don't think we will see a new Sequential synth this year. I think it'll likely be early next year.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Soundquest on August 30, 2019, 01:43:11 PM
I have to agree that earlier next year might be more likely.  I was hoping them to at least announce a general plan of what it might be coming, especially in light of the Summit arrival soon.  When that didn't come I began thinking next year, and perhaps something quite different.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on August 30, 2019, 02:25:22 PM
I have to agree that earlier next year might be more likely.  I was hoping them to at least announce a general plan of what it might be coming, especially in light of the Summit arrival soon.  When that didn't come I began thinking next year, and perhaps something quite different.

I still feel the Summit made Sequential rethink a possible Prophet 12 successor. Honestly if they come out with a mono synth then it would be obvious that’s the case.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: blewis on September 04, 2019, 03:35:16 AM
Wow, so the next Sequential will be delivered along with simultaneous competition from the Summit, Super 6, and ASM Hydra and the already existing Quantum, and the Moog One. (UB-Xa and the MFB8 aren’t concrete enough, but might be here within 2020)

Amazing. That’s a window from $2k-$8k USD with architectures going from digital to daylight. Intriguing as to how they’re going to fit in and inspire their customers in light of their competition.

That’s an environment where someone could replace their entire existing setup with gear built in just the last year!

Ive never seen anything like this personally. I’ve only been in the synth game since 2002.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on September 04, 2019, 03:56:29 AM
Wow, so the next Sequential will be delivered along with simultaneous competition from the Summit, Super 6, and ASM Hydra and the already existing Quantum, and the Moog One. (UB-Xa and the MFB8 aren’t concrete enough, but might be here within 2020)

Amazing. That’s a window from $2k-$8k USD with architectures going from digital to daylight. Intriguing as to how they’re going to fit in and inspire their customers in light of their competition.

With everyone focusing on digital/wavetable and FM synths now....perhaps it's better they do a larger scale VCO based synth and try and get Poly Aftertouch on the keybed for it and price it reasonably to give them a bit of an upper hand against the Moog One.

Either that or an expanded/updated Poly Evolver. 20 Voices, FM, Wavetables and VCOs. 4 part multitimbrality. Voice allocation.

Perhaps though...they might not even do a synth...they may just do a multichannel midi sequencer...although there's a lot of competition in that market right now too.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: blewis on September 04, 2019, 08:44:43 AM
If they go hybrid, I think they have to include a VCO so that their hybrids are seen as having something different.

Remember when they said "Vintage with a twist". They new tag might be "Hybrid synthesis - Evolved". You get my drift.

I actually am feeling like they have to go backwards to the Evolver to differentiate from what's in the highly competitive environment. And everyone wants an Evolver. I've not seen a single person on forums say "no way" to an updated Evolver - even if they have their own particular dream synth. Everyone can settle on a Revolver.

I think I'm with you on this one. For me, it has to be a big VCO poly, or an updated Evolver. Or some big surprise that I don't even know I want yet.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: blewis on September 04, 2019, 08:46:09 AM
Current mood:
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on September 04, 2019, 02:35:44 PM
If they go hybrid, I think they have to include a VCO so that their hybrids are seen as having something different.

Remember when they said "Vintage with a twist". They new tag might be "Hybrid synthesis - Evolved". You get my drift.

I actually am feeling like they have to go backwards to the Evolver to differentiate from what's in the highly competitive environment. And everyone wants an Evolver. I've not seen a single person on forums say "no way" to an updated Evolver - even if they have their own particular dream synth. Everyone can settle on a Revolver.

I think I'm with you on this one. For me, it has to be a big VCO poly, or an updated Evolver. Or some big surprise that I don't even know I want yet.

Agreed, I know there have been a lot of hints towards a monosynth but I think that would be a huge misstep for Sequential as the market is saturated in those already and you can get small monos for a couple hundred bucks now like the UNO.

A large VCO based synth would be awesome but I can already hear tweak heads bitching and moaning if it doesn’t have a large touch screen in the middle and at least 100,000 modulation destinations.  I honestly just like the KISS approach...two Prophet 6 modules side by side under one hood with split/layer buttons in the middle and instead of a module a lower tier keybed that you can attach on to the synth to control one of the engines across another entire keybed...so a Prophet 10 type concept. 

I think if they do bring out an updated Evolver...a Blue colored synth is a must! Lol I’ve been listening to a lot of PEK demos and to me it still has such a unique sound to it. Even if the Prologue is similar in concept it just doesn’t have that magic of what Dave did on that thing. It was literally almost all his past synths Frankensteined together under a single hood.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: blewis on September 04, 2019, 02:55:12 PM
Dude, I forgot about the Prologue. It’s really going to be hard to stand out this time around.

Should be very interesting.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: OceanMachine on September 04, 2019, 04:06:51 PM
The Prophet 10 is awesome, but really, how much of a market is there for such a beast these days especially? I'd imagine a knobby Matrix-12 re-imagining with the VCOs/SEM filters of the OB-6 would be the most desirable if it came in well under the 8 voice Moog One.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on September 04, 2019, 07:39:44 PM
Paul Dither had some great designs he came up with.

Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: OceanMachine on September 04, 2019, 09:03:18 PM
Wow, those are incredible! Both would be the only two synths I'd trade my current setup for. My only tweaks would be some way to select the Prophet patches by category and also give it at least 12 voices. Just call it The Prophet cuz that's what it'd be.

Edit: Sequential should at very least consolidate with Paul for some designs.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on September 06, 2019, 08:24:55 AM
Well... We all fantasize about a synth that meet our own needs, so that is what I'll do now, and not a synth that either me or you would have dreamed that I would want... But with my current switch to 100% semimodular synths, this is where my longings are.

One thing that is common among semimodular synths is, that they are often mono... In fact I do not know many stereo analog 100% hands on synths... Perfourmer, Matriarch and one more from Analogue Solutions I cannot remember the name of.

Another thing is hybrid synths that are 100% hands on, or even just 100% hands on analog or digital synths that are polyphonic. If you want a digital front end on such a synth, you will almost have to combine it yourself in a small eurorack case, since this is the only place to find digital oscillators that are 100% hands on.

I would like to see some more hybrid semi modular synths with 100% hands on, and I do not see why this could not be from Sequential... Maybe a small cool series of these types of synths with the same form factor... A bit like how the Dreadbox Erebus and Nyx also has the same form factor, or the Volcas or Boutiques from Roland... People like to collect small desktop synths that each cover something unique and looks good together.

So what would I like to see from DSI?... A semimodular series based around simplified aspects of their previous work, and of course new stuff. Every parameter with it's own knob/button plus patch points to control them using eurorack standards.

I could imagine a hybrid Prophet X oscillator that would play a single sample loaded from an SD card for example and a few knobs and buttons to tweak the sample, and then the usual analog filter and vca behind it, maybe even a digital FX engine in the end, as long as it is tweakable via knobs and buttons.

I could imagine a semimodular build around the Curtis chip, or a downsized P12 oscillator... It is basically just about cooking the current technologies down to something that can work in a simplified hands on, one knob per function way.

There really are a hole in the marked for semi modular desktop synths with hybrid technology in them... Synths that can be played and tweaked, and has no need to be programed, no need for presets... I really see this dead area now that I have gone completely semimodular. Any desktop synth with something hybrid almost always stores presets, and with it comes the double function knobs and menu diving which completely screws the hands on feel and playability... Some more than others... The appeal of the analog ones is that what you see is what you get, and the patch points is what lets you be extra creative and broadens the flexibility of otherwise relatively few parameters.

But I doubt Sequential would ever catch on to this idea... So I simply may have to create my own muckups in a small eurorack... Man I wish I knew electronics well enough to start creating my own such series of synths  ::)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on September 06, 2019, 02:26:56 PM
I think any semi modular based synths Sequential do will likely a collaboration with Oberheim with an SEM based Four Voice with CV galore across the top like the TVS Pro was. I doubt it though. Dave helped bring instant patch memory to analog synths..why would he make a synth with no patch memory?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Tonda on September 07, 2019, 01:41:28 AM
I'm mostly a live performer and for me, modular based synths won't work.

Although I love my P12, a successor would be very welcome. What I like to see is a new Sequential which combines the strength of their current instruments.

The base should be the P12 oscillators (yes, i like digital), but with more wavetables, the ability to load your own wavetables or maybe to build wavetables like with the new Hydrasynth. The supersaw of the PX included. FM and AM of course (for this only I would never sell my P12). The oscillators should be high resolution, like the Novation Summit/Peak. The filters of the Pro2, but preferable stereo, like the PX. The character section, the feedback and the 4 delays of the P12. Oh, and a poly unison mode, please! The sequencer of the Pro2. An improved multi effect section. At least bi-timbral. Poly aftertouch would be very welcome!

Well, I keep dreaming :)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on September 07, 2019, 06:27:56 AM
I think any semi modular based synths Sequential do will likely a collaboration with Oberheim with an SEM based Four Voice with CV galore across the top like the TVS Pro was. I doubt it though. Dave helped bring instant patch memory to analog synths..why would he make a synth with no patch memory?

But I'm sure you're right... and I kind of said that in the end of my wishful thinking... exactly because he has always been a preset guy... he more or less invented it afterall.

In theory, I would not mind preset memory... you CAN make a 100% hands-on synth with preset memory, you just need to slim down the parameter set, so everything may fit the panel... but the reality is, that as soon as presets come in, then they want to enhance the flexibility so much, that in some aspect, you get either double function knobs ruining the 100% hands on idea, or a hell of a lot of "under the hood" features, like with the MOOG Minitaur and Sirine.

The P6 and OB6 is actually the closest I've seen yet from Sequential... but I find those to be too expensive for what I'm after, which is mainly monophonic/paraphonic semi modulars in the price range of what a TETRA cost back then.

Regarding semi modular synth though, it's not possible to include preset memory like this, simply because the patch point defy any kind of registering the connections and setting them up from a preset... not unless the patch points were dummy patch points, that only sense what is connected to what, and stored this internally, being able to internally making that patching again... I don't think anyone would want to do this though.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: OakBloodThree on September 11, 2019, 07:48:01 AM
Is it blasphemy to say I hope to see the disappearance of potentiometers, in favor of infinite rotary encoders combined with some form of parameter indication local to each encoder?

The indication could take the form of a curved LED bar graph encircling each knob.

Loading a patch could display all the front panel parameters immediately.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on September 11, 2019, 10:09:08 AM
Is it blasphemy to say I hope to see the disappearance of potentiometers, in favor of infinite rotary encoders combined with some form of parameter indication local to each encoder?

The indication could take the form of a curved LED bar graph encircling each knob.

Loading a patch could display all the front panel parameters immediately.

As much as I understand the usefulness, it's also common that rotary encoders end up skipping values being erratic in behavior etc... this is probably the biggest reason why so many hate them (myself included)... I do not know why manufacturers cannot make encoders that work reliably, also in the long run... but I've yet to see encoders that is satisfactory to me.... on top of that, there is a live tweaking element with encoders that is just not very tweak-friendly... it gives a better feel when you have a set start and stop on a knob... it makes filter sweeps etc. via an encoder really hard to do reliably... so I guess the fight is between live control use, and actual preset editing... with editing the use of encoders in multifunction knobs are very handy (if they work that is)... but for performance tweaks, they really suck big time.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: blewis on September 11, 2019, 11:18:58 AM
The Nord G2 had it right: LED encircled encoders and the encoders had good weight and torque and the UI response of the LEDs to knob turning felt like the right amount of throw. To me they feel like a pot (without the stops) and with all the advantages of a visual encoder.

It’s surely more expensive. Probably less reliable, but man was it totally cool! I stupidly thought it was the future. Now no one does it.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: OakBloodThree on September 11, 2019, 11:46:15 AM
I do not know why manufacturers cannot make encoders that work reliably.
I'm sure better ones exist, so it probably comes down to costs in hardware, and also processing: Unless the encoder includes a dedicated counter circuit, it relies on the CPU to count pulses and determine direction.  I really like the one used for volume on my car's infotainment system, but that might not handle the demands of synth service.
I guess the fight is between live control use, and actual preset editing...
I think you're exactly right.  I love building patches, and almost never use my synths in a live setting. While I'm recording, I almost never twist a control knob.  I program it to use pitch/mod wheels, velocity, aftertouch or foot pedal so I don't have to.
The Nord G2 had it right.
I was not familiar with that one, but I looked it up.  It looks like it only had the encoders for 8 parameters, so you couldn't really see all the parameters at a glance.  I suppose the quantity was limited by cost and front panel real estate.

I'm sure there's a perfect control/display object out there waiting to be invented...
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: AlanC on September 13, 2019, 03:00:14 PM
LED encircled encoders

...

Now no one does it.

Apart from Yamaha...  ;)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/G/01/aplusautomation/vendorimages/b5f50dc2-7a4e-4f62-88c7-bea4946b5cb7.jpg._CB293748701_.jpg)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Quatschmacher on September 13, 2019, 08:31:44 PM
LED encircled encoders

...

Now no one does it.

Apart from Yamaha...  ;)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/G/01/aplusautomation/vendorimages/b5f50dc2-7a4e-4f62-88c7-bea4946b5cb7.jpg._CB293748701_.jpg)

What synth is that?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on September 13, 2019, 08:35:08 PM
LED encircled encoders

...

Now no one does it.

Apart from Yamaha...  ;)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/G/01/aplusautomation/vendorimages/b5f50dc2-7a4e-4f62-88c7-bea4946b5cb7.jpg._CB293748701_.jpg)

What synth is that?
Yamaha Montage... with the Super Knob.  A regular knob, but bigger. ;)   

Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: jok3r on September 14, 2019, 02:47:32 AM
The new Roland Fantom has also LED indicators around some (I don't know if all) knobs and sliders...
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on September 17, 2019, 02:21:13 AM
I saw a post today, that DSI has copyrighted the name PRO-3...seems to match the statement from someone who was selling their Pro-1 knowing something we do not.

I guess we will see a 16 voice version of something that can sound excactly like a Pro-1... Otherwise someone would not sell their pro1 because of this...

Also, in the light of the Behringer feud, this is exactly what would be nedded to fight back at the Behringer Pro1... It just needs to be properly priced and have memory to boot... That might give it the edge...
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on September 17, 2019, 04:04:19 AM
I saw a post today, that DSI has copyrighted the name PRO-3...seems to match the statement from someone who was selling their Pro-1 knowing something we do not.

I guess we will see a 16 voice version of something that can sound excactly like a Pro-1... Otherwise someone would not sell their pro1 because of this...

Also, in the light of the Behringer feud, this is exactly what would be nedded to fight back at the Behringer Pro1... It just needs to be properly priced and have memory to boot... That might give it the edge...

I wonder....analog oscillators? Digital? Both?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on September 17, 2019, 04:05:44 AM
Also wouldn’t a Polyphonic Pro just be a Prophet?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Quatschmacher on September 17, 2019, 04:28:25 AM
That’s quite exciting. My poly fund is ready and waiting.

I saw a post today, that DSI has copyrighted the name PRO-3...seems to match the statement from someone who was selling their Pro-1 knowing something we do not.

I guess we will see a 16 voice version of something that can sound excactly like a Pro-1... Otherwise someone would not sell their pro1 because of this...

Also, in the light of the Behringer feud, this is exactly what would be nedded to fight back at the Behringer Pro1... It just needs to be properly priced and have memory to boot... That might give it the edge...
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: kimu on September 17, 2019, 05:36:26 AM
 I would love to see a new poly synth from DSI based on the legacy of P12 and Pro2 but i guess that in this case it would be called Prophet- and not Pro-
My feeling is that Pro will always be used for mono synth (paraphonic synth) monster.
maybe an evolved Pro2 with 2 sample osc from Px and 2 digital ones
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: OceanMachine on September 17, 2019, 09:45:24 AM
I guess we will see a 16 voice version of something that can sound excactly like a Pro-1... Otherwise someone would not sell their pro1 because of this...

Almost certainly not the case or it would not have the Pro moniker minus the phet. All it would need is VCOs with the addition of digital oscillators (which might not be the case or else it could be considered part of the Evolver line instead, but then again, the Evolver had DCOs so maybe not) or (so long as it at least has VCOs) the fact that it will have patch memory as well as more sophisticated modulation, etc. (possibly multiple CV I/Os again) is reason enough alone. 
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on September 17, 2019, 01:31:04 PM
I guess we will see a 16 voice version of something that can sound excactly like a Pro-1... Otherwise someone would not sell their pro1 because of this...

Almost certainly not the case or it would not have the Pro moniker minus the phet. All it would need is VCOs with the addition of digital oscillators (which might not be the case or else it could be considered part of the Evolver line instead, but then again, the Evolver had DCOs so maybe not) or (so long as it at least has VCOs) the fact that it will have patch memory as well as more sophisticated modulation, etc. (possibly multiple CV I/Os again) is reason enough alone.

Still it would not make sense to sell your Pro-1 if the replacement would not sound 100% like it... this is what is confusing... but I guess you all will just have to wait and see what comes...
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Lady Gaia on September 18, 2019, 03:59:15 PM
Still it would not make sense to sell your Pro-1 if the replacement would not sound 100% like it... this is what is confusing... but I guess you all will just have to wait and see what comes...

People look at instruments in a wide variety of ways.  Sometimes it’s a physical space or economic trade-off where you simply can’t have both.  Sometimes it’s a desire to be inspired by something new and move on from an old habit.  Sometimes it’s a calculated risk that you’ll find enough advantages to offset what you’ve lost by focusing your attention on a different instrument rather than dividing it.

I know I wouldn’t lose a moment’s sleep replacing an upright piano with a fantastic grand, even knowing full well that it can’t reproduce the upright’s tone.  Not that I’m saying this is entirely comparable, but offering a somewhat parallel example.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on September 18, 2019, 04:26:26 PM
Still it would not make sense to sell your Pro-1 if the replacement would not sound 100% like it... this is what is confusing... but I guess you all will just have to wait and see what comes...

People look at instruments in a wide variety of ways.  Sometimes it’s a physical space or economic trade-off where you simply can’t have both.  Sometimes it’s a desire to be inspired by something new and move on from an old habit.  Sometimes it’s a calculated risk that you’ll find enough advantages to offset what you’ve lost by focusing your attention on a different instrument rather than dividing it.

I know I wouldn’t lose a moment’s sleep replacing an upright piano with a fantastic grand, even knowing full well that it can’t reproduce the upright’s tone.  Not that I’m saying this is entirely comparable, but offering a somewhat parallel example.


No doubt. I’m currently selling a synth to get something completely different.  Sometimes we don’t get on with something as well as we expect we might. No harm in it.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: blewis on September 18, 2019, 04:40:04 PM
Still it would not make sense to sell your Pro-1 if the replacement would not sound 100% like it... this is what is confusing... but I guess you all will just have to wait and see what comes...

I would think someone willing to sell their Pro-1 means the new thing has VCOs and that person has found that everything they liked in the AS-1 is there in the new thing.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on September 18, 2019, 07:36:24 PM
Personally I still like my idea of a Pro4. Which was essentially four AS1 synths under the hood. Four part multitimbrality with each voice having their own arp/sequencer, effects, two VCOs and you could split and layer them in any way...including a poly stack mode which you could have a four voice synth....sort of like the concept from the Korg Mono/Poly.

Obviously we don’t know what this is...but I would hope it’s a bit more than just a mono synth with paraphonic capabilities.

Also if there is a sequencer on board...please include ratcheting. Moog now has it in nearly all their synths and the ASM Hydra Synth has it too.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on September 19, 2019, 05:53:41 AM
Still it would not make sense to sell your Pro-1 if the replacement would not sound 100% like it... this is what is confusing... but I guess you all will just have to wait and see what comes...

People look at instruments in a wide variety of ways.  Sometimes it’s a physical space or economic trade-off where you simply can’t have both.  Sometimes it’s a desire to be inspired by something new and move on from an old habit.  Sometimes it’s a calculated risk that you’ll find enough advantages to offset what you’ve lost by focusing your attention on a different instrument rather than dividing it.

I know I wouldn’t lose a moment’s sleep replacing an upright piano with a fantastic grand, even knowing full well that it can’t reproduce the upright’s tone.  Not that I’m saying this is entirely comparable, but offering a somewhat parallel example.

Well. no one can be certain as for what the reason is other than that Inhalt is selling his Pro-1 because "he know something we do not"... by that I conclude, that this thing that he knows, is the direct reason for him to sell his Pro-1 ... and with a machine as sought after as the Pro-1, I just asume that the new thing must be able to get rather close to the Pro-1 in tone... I might be wrong, but that is just my guess...

But one thing I'm certain off... it will not be just a Pro-1 clone... Dave never repeat his synths, so IF it will be a modern take on the Pro-1, it will (even if it sounds 100% like the Pro-1) have loads of other features as well...

As I wrote, we'll just have to wait and see... but the chances it's be a Pro-3 is pretty good with the trademarking of the Pro-3 name.

Anyway, it's not a synth that will fall into my current cattegory, so I'll take it pretty calm whatever it is... I'm not a Sequential user anymore, and I doubt I ever will be again for several reasons.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on September 19, 2019, 08:25:12 PM

Anyway, it's not a synth that will fall into my current cattegory, so I'll take it pretty calm whatever it is... I'm not a Sequential user anymore, and I doubt I ever will be again for several reasons.

I'll give that about 1-2 months before we see another page on your thread ;) with something Sequential.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on September 19, 2019, 09:56:16 PM
Anyway, it's not a synth that will fall into my current cattegory, so I'll take it pretty calm whatever it is... I'm not a Sequential user anymore, and I doubt I ever will be again for several reasons.
Famous Last Words
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: OceanMachine on September 20, 2019, 12:43:46 AM
Dear Sequential,

                        I will never quit you.

              Yours truly, ATE
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: station2station on September 21, 2019, 06:50:10 PM
Personally I'd like to see:

1.  A Dave Smith designed competitor to the Moog ONE, but not quite as unnecessarily ambitious.  Let it be a 3 or 4 VCO polysynth that takes it's cues from the Oberheim Xpander.  SEM-and-Prophet VCO's in the same machine with Prophet Curtis and SVBP style filters which can be put in a-b, b-a sequence and mixed, with modulation routings out the yang.  61-key and module. 

or

2.  Tempest 2.0.  And bring the house.  State Variable filter with BP and notch (which sounds great on percussion), Rossum LP Filter, samples mixed with analog synthesis, fx. 
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on September 23, 2019, 03:44:42 AM
Hi all,

I've cleaned up this thread and moved the discussion on the great gear dilemma to the gear obsession thread over here: https://forum.sequential.com/index.php/topic,2396.0.html
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on November 14, 2019, 10:07:27 AM
I haven't done the math, but it seems like an awfully long time since Sequential has introduced or even spoken about a new instrument.  The crickets are getting sore throats.

I would happily welcome a Pro 3, but there has been no official announcement yet.  Even the forum has lately been quiet.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Quatschmacher on November 14, 2019, 11:44:05 AM
I’m waiting patiently too. Money waiting.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: SandyS1 on November 14, 2019, 11:45:43 AM
I haven't done the math, but it seems like an awfully long time since Sequential has introduced or even spoken about a new instrument.  The crickets are getting sore throats.

I would happily welcome a Pro 3, but there has been no official announcement yet.  Even the forum has lately been quiet.

Maybe Winter NAMM?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: jok3r on November 14, 2019, 01:43:19 PM
Maybe Winter NAMM?

Oh? It's this time of the year again... spring, summer, autumn, waiting for NAMM...  ;D
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on November 14, 2019, 04:46:29 PM
Yeah, for a musician there are four seasons: spring, summer, fall, and NAMM.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Soundquest on November 15, 2019, 10:58:29 AM
Yes, indeed, it has been very quiet here.  I was hoping for a new Sequential instrument announcement back in Summer.   That being said, I figure at this point any instrument from Sequential getting into my hands would be at least a year off.  I figure that if they do announce at  NAMM, then release would be months later.  Then I'd probably wait for the bugs to settle before buying.  I can only hope when it does come  along that it's a PolyEvolver spin off :) 

I've had a very busy Autumn, so just now getting back to the music more.  That's one thing I like about winter in Ohio is being able to spend more time nested away in my little studio playing with the synths.  Completely unneeded I suppose, but I did just recently decide to purchase another synth.  I was looking at both the Summit and Hydrasynth more or less just because they were new.  But I ended up deciding against both, though both seem fine in their own right.  My reasons were that I didn't want to spend that much just yet on the Novation, and with the Hydrasynth, the more I studied what I heard with all that wave morphing, interesting as it may be, didn't necessarily sound good to me.   Still cant beat those pulse and saw waves ;).    Anyway,  I took a completely left turn and went back to something I looked at a few years ago.  It's one of those odd units that never got much publicity- the Modor NF1.  Any videos of goodness are sorely lacking out there, but I really liked the ease of the fm and additive sounds, and the MPE capability.  But I was worried about some initial reports that it had a sort of thin sound.   So I kept investigating and eventually found some good sound samples on their website (where I should of gone first).   And as I studied it more  I found some other forum postings where it seemed many owners dabbled in the modular realm.  I figured they'd know a rich oscillator sound.   They all had good reports on it's sound quality.  So I decided to give it a try, got the module (NF1m) due to space and cost, and use the editor-which by the way,  is basic, but simple to use.    There are some hardware improvements in this newer unit than the first round.    More to follow in a few days but I'll move that all over to the "other hardware" thread.



Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: BobTheDog on November 19, 2019, 01:56:20 PM
I just got an NF-1m as well, small world!

I really like it, definitely not sterile!
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Soundquest on November 29, 2019, 12:17:27 PM
Well that neat, a small club started  ;)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on January 13, 2020, 06:58:52 PM
Teaser pic.... https://www.facebook.com/sequentialLLC/photos/a.121344287890444/3016429161715261/?type=3&theater (https://www.facebook.com/sequentialLLC/photos/a.121344287890444/3016429161715261/?type=3&theater)


(https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/82931189_3016429165048594_6513678810485882880_o.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_ohc=qRbZ86OzoGEAX-4PBy0&_nc_ht=scontent-atl3-1.xx&oh=f6a3931bf0128b6cdade49a81fd007d5&oe=5ED8C712)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: OceanMachine on January 13, 2020, 07:51:43 PM
Hinged (presumably adjustable) front panel, yet the knobs look cheaper like the ones on the Tempest...
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 13, 2020, 09:41:51 PM
Never though I’d see an adjustable front panel on a Sequential synth.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 13, 2020, 11:09:03 PM
Yet the knobs look cheaper like the ones on the Tempest...

And like the ones on the Mopho x4.  It does seem like a small instrument.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: jok3r on January 14, 2020, 01:07:51 AM
https://www.gearnews.de/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/sequential-pro-3-770x425.jpg
https://www.sequencer.de/blog/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/sequential-pro-3-se-top-view-800x421.jpg
https://www.sequencer.de/blog/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/sequential-pro-3-back-800x175.jpg
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on January 14, 2020, 01:20:22 AM
Mayby the "3" in PRO-3 is an indicator that it will feature three anlog oscillators... Who knows
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on January 14, 2020, 01:31:01 AM
I am having a problem seeing the reason for this synth... Is it an upgrade of the pro2 or just its own thing? Are the now three oscillators instead of four now analog, or are they digital?... Now decreased to three octaves... I guess I need more info than a picture to understand the need for this synth on the market currently.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: MrSmith on January 14, 2020, 01:53:10 AM
A Three-Generation Legacy
The Sequential Pro 1 and Pro 2 mono synths achieved nearly legendary status in their time. So it was only natural that we build on their strengths with an even more worthy successor. Enter the Pro 3, Sequential's 2-VCO + wavetable mono/paraphonic synth - a new benchmark for raw sonic power and unrivalled versatility.
The Power of 3
The Pro 3 boasts three oscillators, three vintage filters, three LFOs, four loopable envelopes, a massive 32-slot mod matrix, and an 16 x 16 x 4 sequencer. Throw in dual digital effects and four control voltage ins and outs, and you've got a hugely powerful instrument that's as exciting to program as it is to play.
A Next-Generation Classic
The Pro 3 is a hybrid of solid, old-school analog synthesis paired with versatile digital technology. Its two voltage controlled oscillators provide warmth and presence while its third wavetable oscillator provides digital edge and grit. With 32 tables of 16 waves each and wave morphing, tonal possibilities are immense. Tuned feedback with grunge, and analog distortion deliver industrial-grade nastiness on demand.
Three Filters Based on Vintage Designs
At the heart of the Pro 3's ballsy sound are its vintage-style filters. Filter 1 is a 4-pole lowpass design based on the Prophet-6 filter. Filter 2 is a classic transistor ladder filter with optional resonance compensation to preserve its low-end punch. Filter 3 is a classic 2-pole, state-variable design based on the OB-6 filter that can be continuously varied between lowpass, notch, and high-pass operation, with an optional band-pass mode. An additional Drive control provides still more punch when you really want to get down and dirty.
Expressive Sequencing
Possibly the Pro 3's most powerful performance tool is its sequencer. With 16 tracks, 16 steps, and 4 phrases, it features both real-time and step input, ratcheting, variable gate and sequence lengths, multiple playback modes, and paraphonic operation. It also syncs to MIDI clock and external audio input, and inputs/outputs control voltages. In addition to notes, sequence tracks can control any parameter in the 132-destination modulation matrix.
Plays Well with Modulars

The Pro 3's flexible architecture opens the door to not only processing external audio, but also to interfacing with modular synths through its 4 rear-panel control voltage inputs/outputs and a dedicated gate output. Control voltages can be assigned and routed from within the modulation matrix and can run at audio rates for extreme modulation effects. Some of the many parameters that can be sent to the CV outputs include oscillators, LFOs, envelopes, and sequencer tracks, allowing the Pro 3 to become the central hub of a modular or multisynth setup.
Effects, Envelopes, LFOs, an Arpeggiator, and Extreme Modulation

The Pro 3's Effects section provides delays, reverbs, time-domain effects such as chorus/phasing/flanging and more. There are four loopable five-stage envelope generators, three syncable LFOs with slew and phase offset, a full-featured arpeggiator, and a 32-slot modulation matrix with dozens of modulation sources and over a hundred destinations.
Monophonic and Paraphonic Operation

The Pro 3 was designed to be a super-powerful monosynth, but it is also a versatile 3-voice paraphonic synth. This makes playing 3-note chords not only possible, but with creative use of effects and some per-oscillator modulation, mind-blowingly expressive.
Put all of this sonic power in a three-octave, semi-weighted keyboard with velocity and channel aftertouch, add backlit pitch and mod wheels and a location-sensitive touch slider, and you've got one of the most inspiring synths ever made.

Features
- Two analog, voltage-controlled oscillators
- One DSP-based digital oscillator
- Analog oscillators produce three classic wave shapes: (triangle, saw, pulse) with variable shape modulation/pulse width on each
- Digital oscillator produce 32 digital wavetables of 16 waves each with wave morphing, plus classic wave shapes (sine, triangle, saw, variable-width pulse) and super saw
- Digital oscillator 3 can function as an LFO for complex wavetable-based modulation
- White noise generator
- Hard sync, per-oscillator Glide, Oscillator Slop
- 3-voice paraphonic mode with individually-gated envelopes per oscillator
- Three classic filter types
- Filter 1 is a 4-pole, 24 dB per-octave, Prophet-6 low-pass filter
- Filter 2 is a classic, 4-pole, 24 dB per-octave, transistor ladder filter with optional resonance compensation
- Filter 3 is a 2-pole, 12 db per-octave, OB-6 state-variable filter. It can be continuously varied between low-pass, notch, and high-pass operation, with an optional band-pass mode.
- Three syncable LFOs with phase offset and slew per LFO
- Five waveshapes: triangle, saw, reverse saw, square, and S&H
- Four ADSR envelopes with delay (Filter, VCA, and two Auxiliary envelopes)
- Envelopes freely assignable to multiple modulation destinations
- All envelopes can repeat/loop
- Tuned feedback with Grunge for extra-aggressive tonal destruction
- Programmable analog distortion
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Quatschmacher on January 14, 2020, 02:18:07 AM
The choice of the three filters is wonderful. Look forward to trying this out when it is around.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Jonas on January 14, 2020, 02:33:59 AM
The information and leaked images of the Pro 3 are very impressive.  I'm excited to learn more and hear how it sounds.  With a $500 difference, I wonder if there are any other differences with the Special Edition besides the cosmetics...?   Either way, for now I can still relax with the knowledge that I like my Pro 2 better.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Quatschmacher on January 14, 2020, 02:54:11 AM
The information and leaked images of the Pro 3 are very impressive.  I'm excited to learn more and hear how it sounds.  With a $500 difference, I wonder if there are any other differences with the Special Edition besides the cosmetics...?   Either way, for now I can still relax with the knowledge that I like my Pro 2 better.

I think Pro 2 owners can all rest easy, there’s plenty to differentiate the two models and lots that the Pro 2 has that the Pro 3 doesn’t.

I’m very curious about the special edition too. Bigger keyboard? Extra oscillator?

If there were any chance it were 5-octave and poly I’d jump on it but I expect it won’t be.

Or is the image pictured actually the special edition and the plain one won’t have the hinged panel?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on January 14, 2020, 03:50:18 AM
The three filters will no doubt be the major selling point, especially because one filter is s ladder, and the other an SEM type... I will certainly look forward to hear how moog'ish the basses can sound, because that would be the defining desicion for me if I decide on a monophonic analog synth as my third and final synth.

I see some architectural similarities with the oscillator section of the Minilogue xD where you have two analog and one digital oscillator, but this has a proper depth to the engine capabilities. The three octaves, while short, still would fit with my limited space. I just wonder how hands on it will be to program, or if an editor will be essential for me.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Quatschmacher on January 14, 2020, 03:53:59 AM
The three filters will no doubt be the major selling point, especially because one filter is s ladder, and the other an SEM type... I will certainly look forward to hear how moog'ish the basses can sound, because that would be the defining desicion for me if I decide on a monophonic analog synth as my third and final synth.

I see some architectural similarities with the oscillator section of the Minilogue xD where you have two analog and one digital oscillator, but this has a proper depth to the engine capabilities. The three octaves, while short, still would fit with my limited space. I just wonder how hands on it will be to program, or if an editor will be essential for me.

If it’s like most of the other DSI/Sequential offerings with a mod matrix then I’m sure programming will be easy and fun. The dedicated button for source and destination with the amount knob make it a breeze and I’m sure it’ll have the same functionality when assigning the LFOs.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Quatschmacher on January 14, 2020, 04:06:03 AM
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/showpost.php?p=14451726&postcount=22&s=440b1848a3c877cbda9e2443549a47bc

The hinged version is the special edition.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 14, 2020, 04:13:36 AM
I like it but it just seems like a step backwards and just copying elements from current synths on the market. The three Oscillator set up with a digital oscillator is right out of Korg’s Minilogue XD. Three voice paraphonic compared to the four on the Matriarch or even the Pro 2 for that matter. Smaller keyboard. Only 16 steps on the sequencer seems kind of short compared to a lot of other in built sequencers in synths out there. And the design is obviously lifted from the MiniMoog and Sub 37.( Personally I like the normal version more)

It’s the Tarantino of synths.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Quatschmacher on January 14, 2020, 04:20:09 AM
I like it but it just seems like a step backwards and just copying elements from current synths on the market. The three Oscillator set up with a digital oscillator is right out of Korg’s Minilogue XD. Three voice paraphonic compared to the four on the Matriarch or even the Pro 2 for that matter. Smaller keyboard. Only 16 steps on the sequencer seems kind of short compared to a lot of other in built sequencers in synths out there. And the design is obviously lifted from the MiniMoog and Sub 37.( Personally I like the normal version more)

It’s the Tarantino of synths.

The sequencer will have pages like the Pro 2 so will be bigger than 16 steps.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: MrSmith on January 14, 2020, 04:36:50 AM
It says there are four phrases on the sequencer so im guessing four separate 16 step sequences hopefully can be chained together, also looks to be an adjustable swing knob which i like much better than the previous set swing amounts, and real time input, ratcheting

Really excited for this release 
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on January 14, 2020, 04:43:51 AM
any pricing on this thing yet?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on January 14, 2020, 04:45:20 AM
also; are the three filters useable only one at a time, or are there routing configurations etc?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Quatschmacher on January 14, 2020, 05:00:34 AM
also; are the three filters useable only one at a time, or are there routing configurations etc?

My guess is individually. The Pro 2 has a dedicated blend knob and a series/parallel knob.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Quatschmacher on January 14, 2020, 05:02:16 AM
I like it but it just seems like a step backwards and just copying elements from current synths on the market. The three Oscillator set up with a digital oscillator is right out of Korg’s Minilogue XD. Three voice paraphonic compared to the four on the Matriarch or even the Pro 2 for that matter. Smaller keyboard. Only 16 steps on the sequencer seems kind of short compared to a lot of other in built sequencers in synths out there. And the design is obviously lifted from the MiniMoog and Sub 37.( Personally I like the normal version more)

It’s the Tarantino of synths.

I agree that going to 37 keys is a bit of a backwards step. The 44 keys on the Pro 2 were very welcome.

It’s probably too much to hope that they’d put much of this new design into a five-octave poly but I’m still dreaming.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 14, 2020, 05:08:09 AM
One thing that I would have hoped for was Tri-Timbrality. Three Oscillators and Three Filters...I mean one should be able to have one oscillator going through it's own dedicated filter and then with the multiple tracks on the Sequencer essentially have like three separate melodies/sounds going, especially if each ran through the effects engine independently. That would have been Tangerine Dream in a box.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 14, 2020, 05:10:02 AM
I like it but it just seems like a step backwards and just copying elements from current synths on the market. The three Oscillator set up with a digital oscillator is right out of Korg’s Minilogue XD. Three voice paraphonic compared to the four on the Matriarch or even the Pro 2 for that matter. Smaller keyboard. Only 16 steps on the sequencer seems kind of short compared to a lot of other in built sequencers in synths out there. And the design is obviously lifted from the MiniMoog and Sub 37.( Personally I like the normal version more)

It’s the Tarantino of synths.

I agree that going to 37 keys is a bit of a backwards step. The 44 keys on the Pro 2 were very welcome.

It’s probably too much to hope that they’d put much of this new design into a five-octave poly but I’m still dreaming.

I can see them doing a new version of the Poly Evolver with this new type of design. I mean it's almost half way there with it's Wavetable oscillator, so I can see two VCOs/two Digital oscillators as their next venture.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Quatschmacher on January 14, 2020, 05:16:27 AM
I’m curious as to whether the oscillators can overdrive the filter or whether it’ll be like the P6 where they can’t.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: eXode on January 14, 2020, 05:33:05 AM
Higher res pictures: https://imgur.com/a/ZaRZpbF

There will only be one filter at a time. There is a filter drive control.

Rumored price is about $1600 USD for the black version and $2100 USD for the hinged/wooden SE version.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 14, 2020, 06:07:34 AM
Higher res pictures: https://imgur.com/a/ZaRZpbF

There will only be one filter at a time. There is a filter drive control.

Rumored price is about $1600 USD for the black version and $2100 USD for the hinged/wooden SE version.

I mean it's economical for sure but still...just seems like it's missing a bunch of features. The fact you can have only one filter at a time seems silly.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: OceanMachine on January 14, 2020, 06:38:27 AM
And the design is obviously lifted from the MiniMoog and Sub 37.( Personally I like the normal version more)

It’s the Tarantino of synths.

The standard version obviously looks like a Grandmother in form and not remotely like a Sub 37. That said, I as well find said version more aesthetically appealing. And yes, it's very strange to see this much lifting from Sequential... It seems almost as if there was some kind of cooperation between the two companies...

Rumored price is about $1600 USD for the black version and $2100 USD for the hinged/wooden SE version.

If true price wise, I'd much rather spend on the Pro-3 over the Grandmother, Matriarch, or Subsequent 37. That is, if I was in the market for such a thing, which I'm assuredly not.

The fact you can have only one filter at a time seems silly.

Agreed, quite an apparent missed opportunity.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on January 14, 2020, 06:42:58 AM
I am actually beginning to warm up to this as my last third synth... Having a GT and QUANTUM, i am perfectly covered in the polysynth business with loads of options, but the only thing I still miss are the organic sound of true analog oscillators... I really only need this for one certain type of sound which is basses, so I really do not need to go overkill on a MOOG ONE now... PRO3s different filters should give me all the most important filter flavors, and I will get built in FX and a deep engine on top including a well specified sequencer for modulation duties in presets... That I get a single digital oscillator as well is of course a nice bonus, but I woyld have liked three analog oscillators to be honest.

One thing I am curious about is if the paraphony works like on PRO2... It had one very important feature on PRO2, WHICH IS A DEDICATED Amp EG for each oscillator which really makes paraphonuc playing sound so much better... With digital iscillators that was a brieze to implement as the VCAs were probably part of the digital DSP before the filters, but with PRO3 you would have to make a seoarate VCA for each oscillator to create this feature.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 14, 2020, 10:27:17 AM
It's on the Sequential website now:

https://www.sequential.com/2020/01/pro-3-multi-filter-mono-synth/
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: OceanMachine on January 14, 2020, 10:38:38 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhRvonfyGiE

Well Inhalt let the cat out of the bag in multiple ways. First with his sale listing and now this.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: chysn on January 14, 2020, 10:43:10 AM
I like it.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 14, 2020, 10:47:37 AM
Here are a couple of factory sounds I've programmed:

https://soundcloud.com/pauldither/sets/sequential-pro-3
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 14, 2020, 10:52:03 AM
I think, specs aside. The sound is excellent.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 14, 2020, 11:22:10 AM
Any pics of the special edition with the panel down?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on January 14, 2020, 11:41:27 AM
Here are a couple of factory sounds I've programmed:

https://soundcloud.com/pauldither/sets/sequential-pro-3 (https://soundcloud.com/pauldither/sets/sequential-pro-3)


Really well done, Paul.  Kudos to you!
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 14, 2020, 12:35:44 PM
Here are a couple of factory sounds I've programmed:

https://soundcloud.com/pauldither/sets/sequential-pro-3 (https://soundcloud.com/pauldither/sets/sequential-pro-3)


Really well done, Paul.  Kudos to you!

Thanks a lot, Shaw! Much appreciated.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: composerjk on January 14, 2020, 01:39:00 PM
Here are samples of the Pro 3 presets that James Terris designed. Not performances, just quick references of the sounds.

https://soundcloud.com/ameserris/sets/pro-3-sound-design
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: OceanMachine on January 14, 2020, 02:44:17 PM
Really well done, Paul.  Kudos to you!

Thanks a lot, Shaw! Much appreciated.
I'd like to personally un-thank you Paul, as your sound demos just cost me a pretty penny and I wasn't even in the market for a mono (or paraphonic for that matter)!  >:( Thing sounds killer.

Wavestate pre-order canceled in place of the Pro-3.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on January 14, 2020, 02:49:28 PM
After studying the specs, and listening to the demos, this PRO3 will be my last synth, I will be ordering the SE edition because the tilting of the panel will be crucial to me since I want it placed above and beyond my Quantum.

The ladder filter sounds moogish enough to my liking, and the distinct OB filter is just such a lovely addition... All of the other small irritations I had with the REV2 seem to have been removed... LFO slew rate, the oscillators do have a per voice vca obviously, the sequencer is now useful, and not just a gimmick, more distortion and saturation options, mod matrix at audio rates and since there is no layering, the interface is much more hands on with one function per knob on almost all parameters.

It seems I will be on the Sequential wagon anyway...
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 14, 2020, 04:27:05 PM
I think I'm going to sell my Sub 37 for one. Soon as I heard some of those Tangerine Dream style sequences for INHALT I was really impressed.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: OceanMachine on January 14, 2020, 04:43:54 PM
According to the specs, the SE version is a whopping 11 pounds more.

And I'm going to have to replace those ugly hubcap looking octave knobs at very least.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: megamarkd on January 14, 2020, 08:27:28 PM
Really well done, Paul.  Kudos to you!

Thanks a lot, Shaw! Much appreciated.
I'd like to personally un-thank you Paul, as your sound demos just cost me a pretty penny and I wasn't even in the market for a mono (or paraphonic for that matter)!  >:( Thing sounds killer.

Wavestate pre-order canceled in place of the Pro-3.

Hahahaha, that's really saying something!

I like it.

Ditto.

I am glad to see something so close to a successor to the Evolver arrive, this time with wave morphing (woohoo).  If it's 'derivative' in design, then so are most all synths.
/me counts the months until he moves into his new house and re-purposes the 'media room'
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 14, 2020, 10:30:23 PM
Really interesting seeing the reaction in YouTube and Facebook. Everyone seems divided but something I find really interesting, people are complaining that a mono synth doesn’t have four to five octaves but at the same time defending the 64 voiced Wavestate for having three octaves.

“I think Man is a crazy animal.”-Orson Welles.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: creativespiral on January 14, 2020, 10:46:22 PM
Consider these mod specs:

171 mod destinations for the 32 mod slots... that's an obscene amount of modulation routing capability!

Four loopable DADSR envelopes, three LFOs and the 16x16x4 sequencer.

This is going to be capable of some extremely deep sound design and modular sequencing. It's like having an expansive modular system, but with patch memory to instantly recall all your mod setups... and of course it plays nice with other CV modules. The more I consider the specs, the more excited I'm getting.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on January 15, 2020, 01:42:34 AM
One thing I would like to see, maybe in an OS update if possible, is perhaps 32 more wavetables of 16 waveforms that could be user waveforms, a bit like how the Evolver had some user waveforms... users will allways end up wanting at least a few of their own wavetables going, and it would greatly enhance an already impressive synth... it need not be a huge amount of slots, just about 16 could go a long way I would say so you can get those few personal wavetables of yours going... now I am saying this generally in anyones interrest because personally it is not essential to me as my Quantum will kick the PRO3 wavetable synthesis way out of the waters anytime, but as a stand alone synth, I think that such a feature would greatly enhance the selling point for many.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on January 15, 2020, 01:50:30 AM
By the way I am a bit perplexed as to the paraphony when the three oscillator has one that is digital... I would believe that having all oscillators identical would be essential, otherwise one “voice” will allways sound a bit different... and when you start to use waveshapes on the digital oscillator, then it would be kind of unusable? I wonder how close the digital oscillator sound when it has the same settings as the two analog ones.

I never tried thi s myself, so maybe it is more useful than I may think... but it does make me wonder...
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 15, 2020, 02:18:21 AM
I wonder how close the digital oscillator sound when it has the same settings as the two analog ones.

This is a very simply paraphonic patch that features a sawtooth wave for all oscillators:

https://soundcloud.com/pauldither/paraphonic-prophet?in=pauldither/sets/sequential-pro-3

But just like with the Pro 2, the real paraphonic fun lies in using different settings for each oscillator, which in a way allows for more timbral polyphony than any conventional poly synth could. In that sense I'd say that any paraphonic synth is far superior to any standard polyphonic synth in terms of possible timbral complexity per note.

This patch features different waveform settings for each oscillator:

https://soundcloud.com/pauldither/transcendental-pad?in=pauldither/sets/sequential-pro-3

The sequencer is used in gated mode that won't reset the sequence with any new keystroke to only control modulation parameters over time, not note values.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Quatschmacher on January 15, 2020, 03:06:35 AM
Here are a couple of factory sounds I've programmed:

https://soundcloud.com/pauldither/sets/sequential-pro-3

These sound great!
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 15, 2020, 03:15:31 AM
Here are a couple of factory sounds I've programmed:

https://soundcloud.com/pauldither/sets/sequential-pro-3

These sound great!

Thanks a lot!
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on January 15, 2020, 03:34:23 AM
I wonder how close the digital oscillator sound when it has the same settings as the two analog ones.

This is a very simply paraphonic patch that features a sawtooth wave for all oscillators:

https://soundcloud.com/pauldither/paraphonic-prophet?in=pauldither/sets/sequential-pro-3

But just like with the Pro 2, the real paraphonic fun lies in using different settings for each oscillator, which in a way allows for more timbral polyphony than any conventional poly synth could. In that sense I'd say that any paraphonic synth is far superior to any standard polyphonic synth in terms of possible timbral complexity per note.

This patch features different waveform settings for each oscillator:

https://soundcloud.com/pauldither/transcendental-pad?in=pauldither/sets/sequential-pro-3

The sequencer is used in gated mode that won't reset the sequence with any new keystroke to only control modulation parameters over time, not note values.

I get that playing chords will mask some things, but what if you play a decaying sawtooth oscillator with only one note at a time that will let the tails ring out? this is when you would be hearing the digital oscillator stand out? this is not possible with ordinary paraphony since there is only one vca, but as I understand it, like on PRO2, ,the PRO3 has a vca for each oscillator?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: jg666 on January 15, 2020, 03:35:27 AM
If I didn’t already own the Pro 2 I would definitely be looking to buy the Pro 3. I don’t think the Pro 3 offers enough over the Pro 2 though to own both?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 15, 2020, 03:40:55 AM
I get that playing chords will mask some things, but what if you play a decaying sawtooth oscillator with only one note at a time that will let the tails ring out? this is when you would be hearing the digital oscillator stand out? this is not possible with ordinary paraphony since there is only one vca, but as I understand it, like on PRO2, ,the PRO3 has a vca for each oscillator?

When you play single notes in paraphonic mode, you will cycle through the oscillators, i.e. you are going to trigger a different oscillator each time you press a key. Each oscillator is triggered with an envelope set by the VCA shape.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 15, 2020, 03:42:57 AM
If I didn’t already own the Pro 2 I would definitely be looking to buy the Pro 3. I don’t think the Pro 3 offers enough over the Pro 2 though to own both?

I wouldn't regard the Pro 3 as a Pro 2 replacement or upgrade. While there are overlapping elements, both synths are capable of different things. So I rather see them as complementary synths.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: MrSmith on January 15, 2020, 03:46:24 AM
Can you modulate the effects? i loved playing with the delay times on p2
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: jok3r on January 15, 2020, 03:46:34 AM
I hope this thing got beat sync for the sequencer/arp. And if so, I hope this time they got it working right ;-) If it works rock solid this could be a veeeery nice addition to my live setup.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 15, 2020, 03:49:49 AM
Can you modulate the effects? i loved playing with the delay times on p2

Yes, all effect parameters are modulatable.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 15, 2020, 03:52:03 AM
I hope this thing got beat sync for the sequencer/arp. And if so, I hope this time they got it working right ;-) If it works rock solid this could be a veeeery nice addition to my live setup.

You can beat sync the arpeggiator and make it send MIDI notes.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: MrSmith on January 15, 2020, 03:56:20 AM
Awesome, just ordered the peasent version

This is everything i could want in a mono synth kudos to the Sequential team
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: jok3r on January 15, 2020, 04:43:37 AM
I hope this thing got beat sync for the sequencer/arp. And if so, I hope this time they got it working right ;-) If it works rock solid this could be a veeeery nice addition to my live setup.

You can beat sync the arpeggiator and make it send MIDI notes.

I can do that with my Rev2 also... but does it work without having to send MIDI start commands? And what about the sequencer?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 15, 2020, 05:03:36 AM
I wonder how close the digital oscillator sound when it has the same settings as the two analog ones.

This is a very simply paraphonic patch that features a sawtooth wave for all oscillators:

https://soundcloud.com/pauldither/paraphonic-prophet?in=pauldither/sets/sequential-pro-3

But just like with the Pro 2, the real paraphonic fun lies in using different settings for each oscillator, which in a way allows for more timbral polyphony than any conventional poly synth could. In that sense I'd say that any paraphonic synth is far superior to any standard polyphonic synth in terms of possible timbral complexity per note.

This patch features different waveform settings for each oscillator:

https://soundcloud.com/pauldither/transcendental-pad?in=pauldither/sets/sequential-pro-3

The sequencer is used in gated mode that won't reset the sequence with any new keystroke to only control modulation parameters over time, not note values.

I've always wondered....would an Oberheim SEM Four Voice be considered Polyphonic or Paraphonic? Since essentially each SEM has it's own VCF and VCA (plus two VCOs) but each SEM can have different settings like a paraphonic synth.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 15, 2020, 05:05:17 AM
In regards to the audio in....does it have a envelope follower for a guitar like the Pro 2 did? I have not seen it mentioned.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 15, 2020, 05:27:27 AM
I hope this thing got beat sync for the sequencer/arp. And if so, I hope this time they got it working right ;-) If it works rock solid this could be a veeeery nice addition to my live setup.

You can beat sync the arpeggiator and make it send MIDI notes.

I can do that with my Rev2 also... but does it work without having to send MIDI start commands? And what about the sequencer?

Well, you'd have to have an external MIDI clock running. Beat sync is for the arpeggiator.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 15, 2020, 05:32:21 AM
I've always wondered....would an Oberheim SEM Four Voice be considered Polyphonic or Paraphonic? Since essentially each SEM has it's own VCF and VCA (plus two VCOs) but each SEM can have different settings like a paraphonic synth.

Different case. A Four Voice has four entirely independent voices, where nothing is shared amongst the single modules. It's essentially like four monosynths in one box. On paraphonic synths, typically the VCA and VCF are shared by all oscillators. Note: paraphonic doesn't necessarily mean that each note can have a different timbre, that's only the case with synths like the Mono/Poly or the Pro 2 and 3, for example.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 15, 2020, 05:33:25 AM
In regards to the audio in....does it have a envelope follower for a guitar like the Pro 2 did? I have not seen it mentioned.

Yes.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: sofine on January 15, 2020, 06:15:58 AM
Hi Paul,

LOVE your sound demos. They have got me interested!

Do you know if the filter types are modulatable, so you could automate them switching either in a sequence or by some other modulatable source?

Cheers.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Quatschmacher on January 15, 2020, 06:23:32 AM
Hi Paul,

LOVE your sound demos. They have got me interested!

Do you know if the filter types are modulatable, so you could automate them switching either in a sequence or by some other modulatable source?

Cheers.

If it’s like the Pro 2 then at the very least, the state of the SEM filter will be modulatable, including switching the bandpass on and off.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 15, 2020, 06:44:41 AM
In regards to the audio in....does it have a envelope follower for a guitar like the Pro 2 did? I have not seen it mentioned.

Yes.

Excellent! Can't wait to run a guitar or vocal line into it.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: jg666 on January 15, 2020, 07:01:28 AM
If I didn’t already own the Pro 2 I would definitely be looking to buy the Pro 3. I don’t think the Pro 3 offers enough over the Pro 2 though to own both?

I wouldn't regard the Pro 3 as a Pro 2 replacement or upgrade. While there are overlapping elements, both synths are capable of different things. So I rather see them as complementary synths.

Oh dear, that reply could cost me some money very soon ;)  ;D

Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: OceanMachine on January 15, 2020, 07:34:34 AM
I'm going to go ahead and assume filter routing will be the number one requested feature to be added. There's no knob for it, but hopefully Sequential is able to add it as a menu option later if it's possible ...  Although I'd assume there's some insurmountable technical reason for its striking absence that has to do with the hardware implementation. 
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Quatschmacher on January 15, 2020, 07:35:52 AM
@Paul Dither
does the Pro 3 have the same graphical envelope display as the Pro 2?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 15, 2020, 07:46:35 AM
Hi Paul,

LOVE your sound demos. They have got me interested!

Do you know if the filter types are modulatable, so you could automate them switching either in a sequence or by some other modulatable source?

Cheers.

Thank you, sofine!

The choice of filter type (SSM/Ladder/SEM) is not a modulation destination. However, the SEM filter allows you to modulate between lowpass, notch, and highpass modes as well as between bandpass and regular mode (just like on the Pro 2). Furthermore, there's also a drive parameter for each filter type that can be modulated. In addition to all that, the ladder filter also features the option to activate a bass boost to compensate for the typical loss of lower frequencies when you use a Moog style filter with higher resonance settings.

Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 15, 2020, 07:46:52 AM
@Paul Dither
does the Pro 3 have the same graphical envelope display as the Pro 2?

Yes.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Quatschmacher on January 15, 2020, 07:47:59 AM
@Paul Dither
does the Pro 3 have the same graphical envelope display as the Pro 2?

Yes.

Cool, thanks. It’s such a useful and pleasing feature.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 15, 2020, 07:48:17 AM
I'm going to go ahead and assume filter routing will be the number one requested feature to be added. There's no knob for it, but hopefully Sequential is able to add it as a menu option later if it's possible ...  Although I'd assume there's some insurmountable technical reason for its striking absence that has to do with the hardware implementation.

It's either or. There's no option for parallel or serial routing if that's what you mean.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Quatschmacher on January 15, 2020, 08:03:24 AM
I'm going to go ahead and assume filter routing will be the number one requested feature to be added. There's no knob for it, but hopefully Sequential is able to add it as a menu option later if it's possible ...  Although I'd assume there's some insurmountable technical reason for its striking absence that has to do with the hardware implementation.

It's either or. There's no option for parallel or serial routing if that's what you mean.

I think he meant being able to modulate the filter type between the two low pass and one state-variable varieties - kind of the way the Sub 37 allows you to modulate the filter slope. 
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: OceanMachine on January 15, 2020, 08:06:08 AM
It's either or. There's no option for parallel or serial routing if that's what you mean.

I realize that, albeit I'm already speculating on how the feature request thread will look like. I.e., "please add filter routing!" and multiple variants of said request. 
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 15, 2020, 08:08:10 AM
I think he meant being able to modulate the filter type between the two low pass and one state-variable varieties - kind of the way the Sub 37 allows you to modulate the filter slope.

That's a big difference. On the Sub 37 you can modulate the filter slope of one and the same filter whereas in this case you're asking for modulating the routing to three different filters. It's currently impossible and I wouldn't wait for it.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 15, 2020, 08:12:12 AM
It's either or. There's no option for parallel or serial routing if that's what you mean.

I realize that, albeit I'm already speculating on how the feature request thread will look like. I.e., "please add filter routing!"

Like I said: Don't hope or wait for it, since I assume this won't be dependent on just a software update, but also a hardware modification, as you would have to be able to blend between the different filter output signals. Like usual, the simple rule is to take a synth for what it is at the time of its release, not for what it may become or could have been.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: OceanMachine on January 15, 2020, 08:17:11 AM
Again, I know that, but if it is truly impossible due to some kind of hardware limitation, they might want to add a sticky on the Pro 3 sub explaining why because they're almost inevitably going to get a wave of requests for said feature throughout the years.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Quatschmacher on January 15, 2020, 08:22:39 AM
It's either or. There's no option for parallel or serial routing if that's what you mean.

I realize that, albeit I'm already speculating on how the feature request thread will look like. I.e., "please add filter routing!"

Like I said: Don't hope or wait for it, since I assume this won't be dependent on just a software update, but also a hardware modification, as you would have to be able to blend between the different filter output signals. Like usual, the simple rule is to take a synth for what it is at the time of its release, not for what it may become or could have been.

I wasn’t imagining as a blend at all, more that it would jump straight from one to the other at a given CC value. The parallel is again in the way the Sub37 jumps between the four states or jumps between its oscillator octave settings - it’s not continuous. The filters are engaged by a simple button press which, in theory (and without my knowing the underlying architecture) could be made to change according to CC value, eg, 0-42 is filter 1, 43-84 is filter 2 and 85-127 is filter 3.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 15, 2020, 08:26:15 AM
I wasn’t imagining as a blend at all, more that it would jump straight from one to the other at a given CC value. The parallel is again in the way the Sub37 jumps between the four states or jumps between its oscillator octave settings - it’s not continuous. The filters are engaged by a simple button press which, in theory (and without my knowing the underlying architecture) could be made to change according to CC value, eg, 0-42 is filter 1, 43-84 is filter 2 and 85-127 is filter 3.

Gotcha. Well, as of now "filter type" is not a modulation destination. Only the Sequential team can say whether or not it could be implemented.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: OceanMachine on January 15, 2020, 08:40:45 AM
Best to get ahead of it and stop this line of questioning dead in its tracks if Sequential already fully realizes it's definitely not a possibility. Don't want another Tempest user sample-gate, where users rightly or wrongly assumed it was possible and inevitably on its way.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 15, 2020, 08:45:12 AM
Best to get ahead of it and stop this line of questioning dead in its tracks if it's definitely not a possibility. Don't want another Tempest user sample-gate, where users rightly or wrongly assumed it was possible and inevitably on its way.

I didn't intend anything else. Right now filter routings can't be modulated. Whether this could be an option in the future is pure speculation currently. That's why you should take the Pro 3 for what it is today, particularly since nothing else has been promised or even been hinted at.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: hageir on January 15, 2020, 08:54:31 AM
any info on the Modulation Sources and Destinations?
I guess the Pro-2 ones + some new ones?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Quatschmacher on January 15, 2020, 09:12:22 AM
Best to get ahead of it and stop this line of questioning dead in its tracks if Sequential already fully realizes it's definitely not a possibility. Don't want another Tempest user sample-gate, where users rightly or wrongly assumed it was possible and inevitably on its way.

It never hurts to ask. Loads of features have been added to products, often at the behest of user requests.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: OceanMachine on January 15, 2020, 09:23:58 AM
That's why you should take the Pro 3 for what it is today, particularly since nothing else has been promised or even been hinted at.

... Paul, I realize this. I'm merely trying to point out that others may not, as the past tends to repeat itself. For instance, the post directly under yours: "I guess the Pro-2 ones + some new ones?" Many people will assume this is the case and again, rightly or wrongly expect it. Note that I'm not saying hageir, specifically, expects things. Consumers in general is what I'm talking about.

It never hurts to ask. Loads of features have been added to products, often at the behest of user requests.
It never hurts to ask, yet it's a smart move on Sequential's part to squash inevitable requests well ahead of time that they absolutely know aren't possible. Again, that's a conditional hypothetical. For the third time, consumers rightly or wrongly feel entitled to things, especially if similar past products have had these features. I can't tell you how many times I've seen people throw DSI/Sequential under the bus for not living up to expectations due to their perception that the Tempest would inevitably get user samples.

Anyway, I tend to get far ahead of myself thinking of how things will play out. Obviously I'm not making myself clear... One way or another we'll just have to wait and see how things are handled.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: sofine on January 15, 2020, 10:48:55 AM
Hi Paul,

LOVE your sound demos. They have got me interested!

Do you know if the filter types are modulatable, so you could automate them switching either in a sequence or by some other modulatable source?

Cheers.

Thank you, sofine!

The choice of filter type (SSM/Ladder/SEM) is not a modulation destination. However, the SEM filter allows you to modulate between lowpass, notch, and highpass modes as well as between bandpass and regular mode (just like on the Pro 2). Furthermore, there's also a drive parameter for each filter type that can be modulated. In addition to all that, the ladder filter also features the option to activate a bass boost to compensate for the typical loss of lower frequencies when you use a Moog style filter with higher resonance settings.

Thanks for the response.

I am looking forward to hearing just how "moogy" it can get and I might flip my Sub37 for it.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on January 15, 2020, 11:11:16 AM
It would most certainly require a hardware change to allow for having all three filters available in a routable fashion... The filters are analog, so to have software control of routings would require some electronics to digitally control the analogue routing options.

I bet there is already some sort of this going on with the three filters running the same signal in parallel, and some sort of analog selection chip that can be selected to take any of the three signals at any one time.

But routings would require more hardware, and if this is already implemented, I bet the routing options would have been put in already from the start.

Regarding switching filter types from the mod matrix... That is possible to make with 100% certainty, Sequential just have to code it... Anything you could potentially tweak on the front panel could be made in software to be manipulated thru a destination parameter. The question is though, how useful it would be to switch filters like that.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on January 15, 2020, 11:26:54 AM
any info on the Modulation Sources and Destinations?
I guess the Pro-2 ones + some new ones?

I bet a lot of them comes from the enhanced sequencer... There are probably one source for each of the sequencers 16 tracks and all of their respective step values etc... These probably take up the bulk of the new sources...
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 15, 2020, 12:43:20 PM
That's why you should take the Pro 3 for what it is today, particularly since nothing else has been promised or even been hinted at.

... Paul, I realize this. I'm merely trying to point out that others may not, as the past tends to repeat itself. For instance, the post directly under yours: "I guess the Pro-2 ones + some new ones?" Many people will assume this is the case and again, rightly or wrongly expect it.

No hard feelings here. I get what you’re saying. But the Sequential team should be given a couple of days to properly launch the Pro 3. After NAMM we will probably see a dedicated Pro 3 forum and that’s where specific requests can be posted and answered.

I also like to point out that Sequential did include a couple of features in the Pro 3 that have been requested here or elsewhere from time to time. Among those are: Higher resolution for filter controls (for example, cutoff frequency: 1024 steps, resonance 256 steps), the filter cutoff and oscillator octave controls are tightened to the chassis, different tunings can now be chosen per program, and the sequencer functionality has been slightly enhanced and it operates with color codes (via the LEDs) that indicate the type of settings per track.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 15, 2020, 01:08:04 PM
That's why you should take the Pro 3 for what it is today, particularly since nothing else has been promised or even been hinted at.

... Paul, I realize this. I'm merely trying to point out that others may not, as the past tends to repeat itself. For instance, the post directly under yours: "I guess the Pro-2 ones + some new ones?" Many people will assume this is the case and again, rightly or wrongly expect it.

No hard feelings here. I get what you’re saying. But the Sequential team should be given a couple of days to properly launch the Pro 3. After NAMM we will probably see a dedicated Pro 3 forum and that’s where specific requests can be posted and answered.

I also like to point out that Sequential did include a couple of features in the Pro 3 that have been requested here or elsewhere from time to time. Among those are: Higher resolution for filter controls (for example, cutoff frequency: 1024 steps, resonance 256 steps), the filter cutoff and oscillator octave controls are tightened to the chassis, different tunings can now be chosen per program, and the sequencer functionality has been slightly enhanced and it operates with color codes (via the LEDs) that indicate the type of settings per track.

and step ratcheting. :) YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! TANGERINE DREAM CITY!
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Pym on January 15, 2020, 01:23:31 PM
Filter type will never be a routable destination in this instrument, the amount of analog hardware to do it would have added significant cost and increase the end price quite a bit, not to mention the complexity of the user interface

I wasn’t imagining as a blend at all, more that it would jump straight from one to the other at a given CC value. The parallel is again in the way the Sub37 jumps between the four states or jumps between its oscillator octave settings - it’s not continuous. The filters are engaged by a simple button press which, in theory (and without my knowing the underlying architecture) could be made to change according to CC value, eg, 0-42 is filter 1, 43-84 is filter 2 and 85-127 is filter 3.

Gotcha. Well, as of now "filter type" is not a modulation destination. Only the Sequential team can say whether or not it could be implemented.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Quatschmacher on January 15, 2020, 02:12:25 PM
Quote
the filter cutoff and oscillator octave controls are tightened to the chassis,

Awesome! That was a problem I had - my Pro 2’s cutoff knobs went wobbly after just two weeks.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Quatschmacher on January 15, 2020, 02:13:40 PM
Filter type will never be a routable destination in this instrument, the amount of analog hardware to do it would have added significant cost and increase the end price quite a bit, not to mention the complexity of the user interface

I wasn’t imagining as a blend at all, more that it would jump straight from one to the other at a given CC value. The parallel is again in the way the Sub37 jumps between the four states or jumps between its oscillator octave settings - it’s not continuous. The filters are engaged by a simple button press which, in theory (and without my knowing the underlying architecture) could be made to change according to CC value, eg, 0-42 is filter 1, 43-84 is filter 2 and 85-127 is filter 3.

Gotcha. Well, as of now "filter type" is not a modulation destination. Only the Sequential team can say whether or not it could be implemented.

Thanks for clearing that up.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 15, 2020, 03:14:21 PM
and step ratcheting. :) YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! TANGERINE DREAM CITY!

Yes. 2-8 ratchets per step. The higher numbers make particular sense for slow tempo settings. Btw, by "slightly enhanced sequencer" I didn't mean to say that only a little was added to what the Pro 2 was already capable of (I realized there was too much understatement in my wording), but rather that the already great sequencer of the Pro 2 has been improved both in terms of user experience and functionality. You can now also change the duration of any step or group of tied steps and there are always 16 tracks available (on top of the 32 modulation slots), no matter how many steps your sequence consists of.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Pym on January 15, 2020, 06:49:00 PM
Actually the backend was substantially improved... the timing should be tighter, etc. This sequencer is more powerful than the Tempest was, lays the groundwork for lots of stuff

and step ratcheting. :) YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! TANGERINE DREAM CITY!

Yes. 2-8 ratchets per step. The higher numbers make particular sense for slow tempo settings. Btw, by "slightly enhanced sequencer" I didn't mean to say that only a little was added to what the Pro 2 was already capable of (I realized there was too much understatement in my wording), but rather that the already great sequencer of the Pro 2 has been improved both in terms of user experience and functionality. You can now also change the duration of any step or group of tied steps and there are always 16 tracks available (on top of the 32 modulation slots), no matter how many steps your sequence consists of.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 15, 2020, 07:07:05 PM
Actually the backend was substantially improved... the timing should be tighter, etc. This sequencer is more powerful than the Tempest was, lays the groundwork for lots of stuff

and step ratcheting. :) YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! TANGERINE DREAM CITY!

Yes. 2-8 ratchets per step. The higher numbers make particular sense for slow tempo settings. Btw, by "slightly enhanced sequencer" I didn't mean to say that only a little was added to what the Pro 2 was already capable of (I realized there was too much understatement in my wording), but rather that the already great sequencer of the Pro 2 has been improved both in terms of user experience and functionality. You can now also change the duration of any step or group of tied steps and there are always 16 tracks available (on top of the 32 modulation slots), no matter how many steps your sequence consists of.

Hmmm perhaps a hint at more sequencer oriented projects in the future ;)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on January 15, 2020, 10:21:33 PM
I hope that the sequencer's 16 tracks can have a programmed reset step, so that each track can have its own step length... This would be excactly essential, if you talk about Tangerine Dream, not to mention Klaus Schulze's sequences which is constantly evolving due to using sequences of different lengths... This may not seem important because the pro3 is monophonic, but it will matter with especially paraphonic tracks, and also modulating other parameters.

So please Pym... If this is not already possible, this will be my first feature request... It open up so many more complex and evolving possibilities  :)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 15, 2020, 11:37:46 PM
I hope that the sequencer's 16 tracks can have a programmed reset step, so that each track can have its own step length... This would be excactly essential, if you talk about Tangerine Dream, not to mention Klaus Schulze's sequences which is constantly evolving due to using sequences of different lengths... This may not seem important because the pro3 is monophonic, but it will matter with especially paraphonic tracks, and also modulating other parameters.

So please Pym... If this is not already possible, this will be my first feature request... It open up so many more complex and evolving possibilities  :)

Already possible. Each track can have its own length. That also counts for the note tracks (1-3) in paraphonic sequencer mode.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on January 16, 2020, 12:14:48 AM
I hope that the sequencer's 16 tracks can have a programmed reset step, so that each track can have its own step length... This would be excactly essential, if you talk about Tangerine Dream, not to mention Klaus Schulze's sequences which is constantly evolving due to using sequences of different lengths... This may not seem important because the pro3 is monophonic, but it will matter with especially paraphonic tracks, and also modulating other parameters.

So please Pym... If this is not already possible, this will be my first feature request... It open up so many more complex and evolving possibilities  :)

Already possible. Each track can have its own length. That also counts for the note tracks (1-3) in paraphonic sequencer mode.

Nice... Then I will just have to find another feature to request, I'll think of something  ;D
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Gerry Havinga on January 16, 2020, 11:44:07 AM
Actually the backend was substantially improved... the timing should be tighter, etc. This sequencer is more powerful than the Tempest was, lays the groundwork for lots of stuff

and step ratcheting. :) YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! TANGERINE DREAM CITY!

Yes. 2-8 ratchets per step. The higher numbers make particular sense for slow tempo settings. Btw, by "slightly enhanced sequencer" I didn't mean to say that only a little was added to what the Pro 2 was already capable of (I realized there was too much understatement in my wording), but rather that the already great sequencer of the Pro 2 has been improved both in terms of user experience and functionality. You can now also change the duration of any step or group of tied steps and there are always 16 tracks available (on top of the 32 modulation slots), no matter how many steps your sequence consists of.
Could the sequencer in the Pro 3 replace my Schrittmacher?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 16, 2020, 11:46:20 AM
Could the sequencer in the Pro 3 replace my Schrittmacher?

I'm afraid I'm not familiar enough with the Schrittmacher. Any specific functions you're looking for?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 16, 2020, 01:07:33 PM
Actually the backend was substantially improved... the timing should be tighter, etc. This sequencer is more powerful than the Tempest was, lays the groundwork for lots of stuff

and step ratcheting. :) YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! TANGERINE DREAM CITY!

Yes. 2-8 ratchets per step. The higher numbers make particular sense for slow tempo settings. Btw, by "slightly enhanced sequencer" I didn't mean to say that only a little was added to what the Pro 2 was already capable of (I realized there was too much understatement in my wording), but rather that the already great sequencer of the Pro 2 has been improved both in terms of user experience and functionality. You can now also change the duration of any step or group of tied steps and there are always 16 tracks available (on top of the 32 modulation slots), no matter how many steps your sequence consists of.
Could the sequencer in the Pro 3 replace my Schrittmacher?

The Pro 3 sequencer I believe doesn't have song mode.

That all being said it could easily be the centerpiece of a setup. Have the Tempest as the master clock doing a beat hooked up to the Pro 3 and have the Pro 3's sequencer sequencing internal sounds and Moogs, ARPs, Roland System 500 or whatever.

Wow...I just realized something. A big feature request of the Tempest was to be able to sequence more than one mono synth but maybe the Pro 2 and now the Pro 3 was meant to be the piece of gear to do that all along.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on January 16, 2020, 03:32:38 PM
Actually the backend was substantially improved... the timing should be tighter, etc. This sequencer is more powerful than the Tempest was, lays the groundwork for lots of stuff

and step ratcheting. :) YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! TANGERINE DREAM CITY!

Yes. 2-8 ratchets per step. The higher numbers make particular sense for slow tempo settings. Btw, by "slightly enhanced sequencer" I didn't mean to say that only a little was added to what the Pro 2 was already capable of (I realized there was too much understatement in my wording), but rather that the already great sequencer of the Pro 2 has been improved both in terms of user experience and functionality. You can now also change the duration of any step or group of tied steps and there are always 16 tracks available (on top of the 32 modulation slots), no matter how many steps your sequence consists of.
Could the sequencer in the Pro 3 replace my Schrittmacher?

The Pro 3 sequencer I believe doesn't have song mode.

That all being said it could easily be the centerpiece of a setup. Have the Tempest as the master clock doing a beat hooked up to the Pro 3 and have the Pro 3's sequencer sequencing internal sounds and Moogs, ARPs, Roland System 500 or whatever.

Wow...I just realized something. A big feature request of the Tempest was to be able to sequence more than one mono synth but maybe the Pro 2 and now the Pro 3 was meant to be the piece of gear to do that all along.

I think it must be meant to sequence other gear as well because 16 tracks is quite overkill for a 3 note paraphonic with a few mod tracks... Also, why else would pro3 have a dedicated midi output 2? I would believe this output is what you would use for connecting external gear, and the first output being dedicated for pro 3 alone using it for sysex communication etc. Maybe... Just a guess though.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 16, 2020, 04:09:50 PM
I think it must be meant to sequence other gear as well because 16 tracks is quite overkill for a 3 note paraphonic with a few mod tracks... Also, why else would pro3 have a dedicated midi output 2? I would believe this output is what you would use for connecting external gear, and the first output being dedicated for pro 3 alone using it for sysex communication etc. Maybe... Just a guess though.

Okay, these are the sequencer destinations:

1) All synth parameters (like osc 1-3, shape mod, filter frequency, etc.)
2) All 3 parameters of FX1 and FX2
3) Modulation slot amounts 1-32
4) CV Out 1-4
5) CV Trigger 1-4
6) MIDI note on/off messages for channels 1-16 (individually selectable for MIDI output 1 and 2)
7) CC1, 2, 4, 11, 13, 14, 15, 37, 57, 74, 102, 103, 104, 117, 118, 119 (individually selectable for MIDI output 1 and 2)

Tracks 1-3 are reserved for note-related functions (oscillators 1-3), tracks 4-16 can be freely assigned.

Hope that helps.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on January 16, 2020, 04:30:31 PM
I think this synth will end up being the surprise of 2020 NAMM. 


What I mean is that when the specs were first released, everyone was bitching about various stuff (1 less Osc, 1 filter at a time, etc.), but as people are hearing, invariably the tune changes to "oh, that's nice", "pre-ordered", "I have got to get me one of these."
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 16, 2020, 08:19:37 PM
I think it must be meant to sequence other gear as well because 16 tracks is quite overkill for a 3 note paraphonic with a few mod tracks... Also, why else would pro3 have a dedicated midi output 2? I would believe this output is what you would use for connecting external gear, and the first output being dedicated for pro 3 alone using it for sysex communication etc. Maybe... Just a guess though.

Okay, these are the sequencer destinations:

1) All synth parameters (like osc 1-3, shape mod, filter frequency, etc.)
2) All 3 parameters of FX1 and FX2
3) Modulation slot amounts 1-32
4) CV Out 1-4
5) CV Trigger 1-4
6) MIDI note on/off messages for channels 1-16 (individually selectable for MIDI output 1 and 2)
7) CC1, 2, 4, 11, 13, 14, 15, 37, 57, 74, 102, 103, 104, 117, 118, 119 (individually selectable for MIDI output 1 and 2)

Tracks 1-3 are reserved for note-related functions (oscillators 1-3), tracks 4-16 can be freely assigned.

Hope that helps.

So does this mean 4-16 can not be note oriented or am I mistaken?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Quatschmacher on January 16, 2020, 11:47:55 PM
I think it must be meant to sequence other gear as well because 16 tracks is quite overkill for a 3 note paraphonic with a few mod tracks... Also, why else would pro3 have a dedicated midi output 2? I would believe this output is what you would use for connecting external gear, and the first output being dedicated for pro 3 alone using it for sysex communication etc. Maybe... Just a guess though.

Okay, these are the sequencer destinations:

1) All synth parameters (like osc 1-3, shape mod, filter frequency, etc.)
2) All 3 parameters of FX1 and FX2
3) Modulation slot amounts 1-32
4) CV Out 1-4
5) CV Trigger 1-4
6) MIDI note on/off messages for channels 1-16 (individually selectable for MIDI output 1 and 2)
7) CC1, 2, 4, 11, 13, 14, 15, 37, 57, 74, 102, 103, 104, 117, 118, 119 (individually selectable for MIDI output 1 and 2)

Tracks 1-3 are reserved for note-related functions (oscillators 1-3), tracks 4-16 can be freely assigned.

Hope that helps.

Is filter envelope sustain a destination? It isn’t in the Pro 2 and it’s a shame as it’s incredibly useful for patch morphing. 
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: jg666 on January 16, 2020, 11:53:32 PM
Sonicstate with Dave and the Pro3 :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1k_4sO0GNY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1k_4sO0GNY)

Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on January 17, 2020, 12:39:51 AM
Sonicstate with Dave and the Pro3 :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1k_4sO0GNY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1k_4sO0GNY)

Yess! No promises, but he say they are thinking about putting in either user wavetables or extra factory banks of wavetables... I certainly hope they do the user wavetables.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 17, 2020, 01:25:19 AM
Is filter envelope sustain a destination? It isn’t in the Pro 2 and it’s a shame as it’s incredibly useful for patch morphing.

The sustain stage of all envelopes is not a modulation destination. Not sure what you mean by patch morphing. There is only one patch/program at a time.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 17, 2020, 01:27:43 AM
So does this mean 4-16 can not be note oriented or am I mistaken?

Correct. Tracks 1-3 cover all the note-related options you need on a per oscillator basis.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 17, 2020, 05:04:22 AM
So does this mean 4-16 can not be note oriented or am I mistaken?

Correct. Tracks 1-3 cover all the note-related options you need on a per oscillator basis.

What I meant to say was. Can 4-16 not be note oriented to sequence bass lines/melodies for external gear?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Quatschmacher on January 17, 2020, 09:00:55 AM
Is filter envelope sustain a destination? It isn’t in the Pro 2 and it’s a shame as it’s incredibly useful for patch morphing.

The sustain stage of all envelopes is not a modulation destination. Not sure what you mean by patch morphing. There is only one patch/program at a time.

That’s a shame. By “patch morphing” I simply meant using the matrix via a slider or mod wheel, sequencer, etc to change between two distinct sounds within a single patch.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Pym on January 17, 2020, 09:27:33 AM
This is extremely difficult to do, due to our modulation routings and such. What happens if you 'morph' to a preset that has different FX? Or different mod routings? Basically you have to run twice the DSP and kind of blend... but then the source material could be different but the filters are static but may be at different locations?

Non-trivial problem to overcome. Easier to do in the digital realm. There are some things we could do, like limit the amount of params that are included in the 'morph' but I think that isn't a great solution

You have 32 mod slots now, lots of room to create your own morph

Is filter envelope sustain a destination? It isn’t in the Pro 2 and it’s a shame as it’s incredibly useful for patch morphing.

The sustain stage of all envelopes is not a modulation destination. Not sure what you mean by patch morphing. There is only one patch/program at a time.

That’s a shame. By “patch morphing” I simply meant using the matrix via a slider or mod wheel, sequencer, etc to change between two distinct sounds within a single patch.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Quatschmacher on January 17, 2020, 09:31:46 AM
This is extremely difficult to do, due to our modulation routings and such. What happens if you 'morph' to a preset that has different FX? Or different mod routings? Basically you have to run twice the DSP and kind of blend... but then the source material could be different but the filters are static but may be at different locations?

Non-trivial problem to overcome. Easier to do in the digital realm. There are some things we could do, like limit the amount of params that are included in the 'morph' but I think that isn't a great solution

You have 32 mod slots now, lots of room to create your own morph

Is filter envelope sustain a destination? It isn’t in the Pro 2 and it’s a shame as it’s incredibly useful for patch morphing.

The sustain stage of all envelopes is not a modulation destination. Not sure what you mean by patch morphing. There is only one patch/program at a time.

That’s a shame. By “patch morphing” I simply meant using the matrix via a slider or mod wheel, sequencer, etc to change between two distinct sounds within a single patch.

As I said, perhaps my terminology was ambiguous; I wasn’t advocating morphing between two presets, rather I was talking about morphing between two distinctly different sounds within a single preset by apply routings through the mod matrix or sequencer. I was just lamenting that filter envelope sustain isn’t a modulatable parameter as it’s nice to be able to alter the resting frequency of the filter without having to alter the cutoff.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Pym on January 17, 2020, 10:35:11 AM
Yeah that’s a feature I have advocated for more than once. Maybe I’ll revisit it.

Our mod table already has a ton of routings though... it’s getting unwieldy and I can’t think of a better design

This is extremely difficult to do, due to our modulation routings and such. What happens if you 'morph' to a preset that has different FX? Or different mod routings? Basically you have to run twice the DSP and kind of blend... but then the source material could be different but the filters are static but may be at different locations?

Non-trivial problem to overcome. Easier to do in the digital realm. There are some things we could do, like limit the amount of params that are included in the 'morph' but I think that isn't a great solution

You have 32 mod slots now, lots of room to create your own morph

Is filter envelope sustain a destination? It isn’t in the Pro 2 and it’s a shame as it’s incredibly useful for patch morphing.

The sustain stage of all envelopes is not a modulation destination. Not sure what you mean by patch morphing. There is only one patch/program at a time.

That’s a shame. By “patch morphing” I simply meant using the matrix via a slider or mod wheel, sequencer, etc to change between two distinct sounds within a single patch.

As I said, perhaps my terminology was ambiguous; I wasn’t advocating morphing between two presets, rather I was talking about morphing between two distinctly different sounds within a single preset by apply routings through the mod matrix or sequencer. I was just lamenting that filter envelope sustain isn’t a modulatable parameter as it’s nice to be able to alter the resting frequency of the filter without having to alter the cutoff.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: cbmd on January 17, 2020, 01:09:28 PM
So does this mean 4-16 can not be note oriented or am I mistaken?

Correct. Tracks 1-3 cover all the note-related options you need on a per oscillator basis.

What I meant to say was. Can 4-16 not be note oriented to sequence bass lines/melodies for external gear?

Yes, the sequencer has MIDI note and CC output destinations for both MIDI outputs.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: sir-vector on January 17, 2020, 01:32:52 PM
Hi,

is there any way to output the dry signal (after the VCA) in addition to the dry+wet signal at the main L+R outputs (e.g. via CV outs)? In general, this is a feature that I'm sorely missing with DSI/Sequential products (e.g. also on my Prophet X where outputs B are begging to be used that way)!

Thanks and best regards
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on January 18, 2020, 12:12:56 AM
Paul Dither:

Can you explain the wavetable functionality a bit more in depth? In the Smith video he state that each of the 32 wavetables has 16 wavetables in them, but what exactly is he meaning by that? Is that 16 waveforms that is simply morphed in between when the shape knob is tweaked, or are we talking about actual 16 wavetables?... I have a feeling that Smith meant 16 waveforms and not 16 wavetables?

If it is in fact 16 wavetables, how are they laid out?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 18, 2020, 03:52:44 AM
Paul Dither:

Can you explain the wavetable functionality a bit more in depth? In the Smith video he state that each of the 32 wavetables has 16 wavetables in them, but what exactly is he meaning by that? Is that 16 waveforms that is simply morphed in between when the shape knob is tweaked, or are we talking about actual 16 wavetables?... I have a feeling that Smith meant 16 waveforms and not 16 wavetables?

If it is in fact 16 wavetables, how are they laid out?

It's 16 single cycle waves per set, 1024 samples in length at a sample rate of 48K. And you can interpolate between them in 256 increments (0-255).
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on January 18, 2020, 07:11:42 AM
Paul Dither:

Can you explain the wavetable functionality a bit more in depth? In the Smith video he state that each of the 32 wavetables has 16 wavetables in them, but what exactly is he meaning by that? Is that 16 waveforms that is simply morphed in between when the shape knob is tweaked, or are we talking about actual 16 wavetables?... I have a feeling that Smith meant 16 waveforms and not 16 wavetables?

If it is in fact 16 wavetables, how are they laid out?

It's 16 single cycle waves per set, 1024 samples in length at a sample rate of 48K. And you can interpolate between them in 256 increments (0-255).

Thank you for the info :) ... what about bit depth?

This is important to me if user wavetables ever become reality because I'd certainly supply the community here with several wavetables derived from my QUANTUM, which can create them from actual samples... would be cool to be able to transfer from Quantum to PRO3 :)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: OceanMachine on January 18, 2020, 09:14:32 AM
The Pro 3 sequencer I believe doesn't have song mode.

That all being said it could easily be the centerpiece of a setup. Have the Tempest as the master clock doing a beat hooked up to the Pro 3 and have the Pro 3's sequencer sequencing internal sounds and Moogs, ARPs, Roland System 500 or whatever.

Wow...I just realized something. A big feature request of the Tempest was to be able to sequence more than one mono synth but maybe the Pro 2 and now the Pro 3 was meant to be the piece of gear to do that all along.

As you pointed out, the Pros don't have a song mode. So exactly how are you going to have it sequence other gear beyond the 64 step limit? Unless there's someway around that, I don't see how it could be the true pièce de résistance of your setup... Also, the synths you named are mostly (aside from the One/Memory) mono synths. Your Tempest can already sequence those if it sacrifices a track/voice of its own. The same is true for the Rytm as of the latest update. Do the Pro 2/3's tracks send more than one midi note? If not, then again, you have to awkwardly play one note into it at a time, except you now have the aforementioned step limit. Hopefully I'm simply misinformed and there's a way around the limit and the song mode from some external gear can somehow have the Pros send note information beyond the 64 steps...
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: S Y Z Y G Y X on January 18, 2020, 12:36:44 PM
I either read somewhere or heard Dave Smith in one of the NAMM demo videos of the Pro 3 that FM of the oscillators is possible? 

If so I could be tempted to sell our MEK to fund the Pro 3.  I’m curious if any of you all owned a P.E. MEK would you sell it for a Pro 3? 

Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on January 18, 2020, 02:03:28 PM
I either read somewhere or heard Dave Smith in one of the NAMM demo videos of the Pro 3 that FM of the oscillators is possible? 

If so I could be tempted to sell our MEK to fund the Pro 3.  I’m curious if any of you all owned a P.E. MEK would you sell it for a Pro 3?

The mod matrix is audio rate, so it is just a matter of routing one osc output to anothers pitch... Ringmod is also possible, just route to vca (if the individual vcas is a destination that is)...
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: S Y Z Y G Y X on January 18, 2020, 02:15:04 PM
Ok yes that’s what I recall!  Very nice.  The Pro 3 ticks all the boxes for me in what my perfect ideal synth is.  It was the Evolver, but if the Pro 3 is capable of producing the similar hollow, metallic FM type bass tones then I’m ready.  From watching Dave demo this machine at NAMM, I’m really excited about the sequencer.  It seems much more immediate, more user friendly, and many more options even compared to the sequencers on any other DSI/Sequential board. 
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on January 18, 2020, 02:39:43 PM
Ok yes that’s what I recall!  Very nice.  The Pro 3 ticks all the boxes for me in what my perfect ideal synth is.  It was the Evolver, but if the Pro 3 is capable of producing the similar hollow, metallic FM type bass tones then I’m ready.  From watching Dave demo this machine at NAMM, I’m really excited about the sequencer.  It seems much more immediate, more user friendly, and many more options even compared to the sequencers on any other DSI/Sequential board.

Yes... Both specs and sound looks very promissing... It "talked" me out of saving for a MOOG ONE... Everything seems to be "just right" up until now... I hope it will not suffer from too many OS bugs upon release, but I guesd we will just have to wait and see about that... I will give it a few months and look at the initial responses on the pro 3 forum, then I will get one to complement my QUANTUM with its analog front end and filters.

The only thing I will probably never use though, is the modular CV ins and outs...

To me it will be perfect for layering with the quantum... Arps and sequences lsyered with polyphonic pads on the Quantum... I will probsbly route its audio outs to the Quantum external inputs, then I can use the PRO3 as extra analog oscillators in the Quantum on monophonic presets, and also use it live thru granular synthesis and the FX section... Almost as a monophonic add on to the Quantum.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on January 18, 2020, 02:45:21 PM
I think it must be meant to sequence other gear as well because 16 tracks is quite overkill for a 3 note paraphonic with a few mod tracks... Also, why else would pro3 have a dedicated midi output 2? I would believe this output is what you would use for connecting external gear, and the first output being dedicated for pro 3 alone using it for sysex communication etc. Maybe... Just a guess though.

Okay, these are the sequencer destinations:

1) All synth parameters (like osc 1-3, shape mod, filter frequency, etc.)
2) All 3 parameters of FX1 and FX2
3) Modulation slot amounts 1-32
4) CV Out 1-4
5) CV Trigger 1-4
6) MIDI note on/off messages for channels 1-16 (individually selectable for MIDI output 1 and 2)
7) CC1, 2, 4, 11, 13, 14, 15, 37, 57, 74, 102, 103, 104, 117, 118, 119 (individually selectable for MIDI output 1 and 2)

Tracks 1-3 are reserved for note-related functions (oscillators 1-3), tracks 4-16 can be freely assigned.

Hope that helps.

Regarding the oscillator destinations, does these include the individual vcas of the oscillators, so that you can do ringmod via the mod matrix? (or Audio Modulation/AM as it was called on the evolvers)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on January 18, 2020, 02:49:50 PM
Oooh... And I see that they included the Plate Reverb from the X... Very nice for ambient textures!  :)... And the RingMod FX has been included... Nice!

Seems like they have taken the best features and tech from their past, infused it with enhancements and new features that fit exsctly what I would have chosen, and crammed it into a perfect mono/paraphonic synth... Besides user wavetables anything I may wish for is mere luxury I could live without... Very nice job on this one I would say  :)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: S Y Z Y G Y X on January 18, 2020, 03:12:21 PM
That will be an ultimately amazing setup between the Quantum and Pro 3!  Now I guess I decide to sell the MEK.  If anyone’s interested it’s like new condition with potentiometers! 
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: OceanMachine on January 18, 2020, 03:15:26 PM
The only thing I will probably never use though, is the modular CV ins and outs...

Same, unless there's modular gear that features savable patches that I could do something interesting with in conjunction with the Pro 3. I'm open to suggestions.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 18, 2020, 10:14:13 PM
The Pro 3 sequencer I believe doesn't have song mode.

That all being said it could easily be the centerpiece of a setup. Have the Tempest as the master clock doing a beat hooked up to the Pro 3 and have the Pro 3's sequencer sequencing internal sounds and Moogs, ARPs, Roland System 500 or whatever.

Wow...I just realized something. A big feature request of the Tempest was to be able to sequence more than one mono synth but maybe the Pro 2 and now the Pro 3 was meant to be the piece of gear to do that all along.

As you pointed out, the Pros don't have a song mode. So exactly how are you going to have it sequence other gear beyond the 64 step limit? Unless there's someway around that, I don't see how it could be the true pièce de résistance of your setup... Also, the synths you named are mostly (aside from the One/Memory) mono synths. Your Tempest can already sequence those if it sacrifices a track/voice of its own. The same is true for the Rytm as of the latest update. Do the Pro 2/3's tracks send more than one midi note? If not, then again, you have to awkwardly play one note into it at a time, except you now have the aforementioned step limit. Hopefully I'm simply misinformed and there's a way around the limit and the song mode from some external gear can somehow have the Pros send note information beyond the 64 steps...

Tempest does not have CV capabilities. It has a single MIDI channel for ONE synth voice. So you can only do one external mono synth at a time or layer multiple synths on the same synth channel but again only one channel at a time.

With the Pro 3, although it’s 64 steps may seem limited it depends entirely on the type of music you are doing. Have one track doing one sequence melody going out to say an ARP Odyssey, another going to a Roland System 500 and another going to an Oberheim SEM Pro. Yes, all mono tracks but with the sequencer having the ability to have different length tracks, the ability to transpose the sequences, mute steps, mute tracks, add ratchets all on the fly. And the ability to alternate between 4 sets of sequences with The A, B, C, and D buttons (Intro, verse, chorus, bridge). Plus now you can mix all the sounds of your external gear with the great internal sound of the Pro 3. You literally have a perfect hub for a Klaus Schulze or Tangerine Dream set up. At least for the rhythm and melodies and have some poly synths on the side to do pads, leads etc.

It’s not going to be extensive like a Pyramid, MPC etc but what it could be is a hands on interaction and improvisation of multiple sequences which is what Berlin School essentially is.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on January 18, 2020, 11:47:22 PM
The only thing I will probably never use though, is the modular CV ins and outs...

Same, unless there's modular gear that features savable patches that I could do something interesting with in conjunction with the Pro 3. I'm open to suggestions.

Exactly... A saveable sample player module could be fun to use with it, but if not saveable I could as well just connect the aux outs of my Quantum to the ext inputs of the Pro3... Currently I see no use for the CVs the Pro3 is so comprehensive it is hard to figure out what to connect... But as a CV/Gate controller of an external semi modular synth, it might be interresting as a comprehensive modulation controller and player, especially on semi modulars with few LFOs or Envelopes... As the semi modular is not saveable anyway, saving is not of importance.

For a larger modular system, the modulation point sort of vanishes, as it will have so many modulator modules, that creating a Pro3 preset to modulate it seems overkill... I initially had thoughts about creating a huge modular system with all Behringer monos, but that would give so many options I see no real use of the Pro3 in this case.

If there are some hidden advantages of routing audio back to Pro3 via the CV ins I do not really know yet, but before I would do that, I would want to know what samplerate the CV ins can operate at, because if it is limited to 11Khz like on the Prophet 12 mod matrix speed, then audio quality will suffer.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 19, 2020, 11:50:33 AM
Thank you for the info :) ... what about bit depth?

16 bit.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 19, 2020, 11:52:20 AM
Regarding the oscillator destinations, does these include the individual vcas of the oscillators, so that you can do ringmod via the mod matrix? (or Audio Modulation/AM as it was called on the evolvers)

The oscillators as such are the destinations. There is a ring mod in the effects section, though, with selectable waveforms (saw and sine).
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 19, 2020, 01:21:08 PM
What I'd really like to know is what poly synth direction Sequential will be taking in the future.  I'm hoping something worthy will replace the Prophet 12. 
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 19, 2020, 01:47:39 PM
What I'd really like to know is what poly synth direction Sequential will be taking in the future.  I'm hoping something worthy will replace the Prophet 12.

If the Pro 3 is any indication....two VCOs, and either one or two digital oscillators.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 19, 2020, 02:53:22 PM
What I'd really like to know is what poly synth direction Sequential will be taking in the future.  I'm hoping something worthy will replace the Prophet 12.

If the Pro 3 is any indication....two VCOs, and either one or two digital oscillators.

Hmmm, now that sounds an awful lot like a certain instrument....
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 19, 2020, 08:00:21 PM
What I'd really like to know is what poly synth direction Sequential will be taking in the future.  I'm hoping something worthy will replace the Prophet 12.

If the Pro 3 is any indication....two VCOs, and either one or two digital oscillators.

Hmmm, now that sounds an awful lot like a certain instrument....

I mean the Pro 3 is essentially a spiced up Mono Evolver minus one digital oscillator.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 20, 2020, 02:00:36 AM
What I'd really like to know is what poly synth direction Sequential will be taking in the future.  I'm hoping something worthy will replace the Prophet 12.

If the Pro 3 is any indication....two VCOs, and either one or two digital oscillators.

Hmmm, now that sounds an awful lot like a certain instrument....

I mean the Pro 3 is essentially a spiced up Mono Evolver minus one digital oscillator.

The MEK, Pro 2 and Pro 3 are pretty much their own thing. None was designed to replace the other. I would say, though, that the sonic character of the Pro 3 can resemble that of the Evolver, particularly on the gnarly and more aggressive side. The Pro 2, although it can sound nasty as well, has a more polite character overall.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: chysn on January 20, 2020, 03:59:39 AM
The only thing I will probably never use though, is the modular CV ins and outs...

Same, unless there's modular gear that features savable patches that I could do something interesting with in conjunction with the Pro 3. I'm open to suggestions.

Tetrapad would be an excellent performance partner, especially in Voltages mode. Pads can be used to morph between eight sets of four parameters, and you can save twelve groups of settings.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: S Y Z Y G Y X on January 20, 2020, 05:50:11 AM
Yeah I was thinking of selling our MEK to fund a Pro 3 but I decided against that as the sonic character of the MEK is second to none, and they don’t make them anymore.   So I’ll sell our Minilogue XD, and I have a friend that works at Guitar Center who gives me his Friends and Family discount! 

Are any of you who are buying a Pro 3 going with the Special Edition or the Standard?  I’ll go standard
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on January 20, 2020, 06:37:26 AM
Regarding the oscillator destinations, does these include the individual vcas of the oscillators, so that you can do ringmod via the mod matrix? (or Audio Modulation/AM as it was called on the evolvers)

The oscillators as such are the destinations. There is a ring mod in the effects section, though, with selectable waveforms (saw and sine).

Well, it is not quite the same as the FX section works on the combined mixed output, not individual oscillators... I wonder if this could be add in an OS update perhaps.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on January 20, 2020, 06:46:33 AM
Yeah I was thinking of selling our MEK to fund a Pro 3 but I decided against that as the sonic character of the MEK is second to none, and they don’t make them anymore.   So I’ll sell our Minilogue XD, and I have a friend that works at Guitar Center who gives me his Friends and Family discount! 

Are any of you who are buying a Pro 3 going with the Special Edition or the Standard?  I’ll go standard

Under normal circumstances, I would go standard, as the other is just bling... But in this case the SE version actually is an advantage because lf the tiltable front panel... My PRO3 must be placed on two table stands, right behind my QUANTUM on my desktoop, with it reaching a bit in over the QUANTUM... So to be able to see the QUANTUM display properly, the desktop stands cannot be tilted too much down, or the PRO3 will cover the QUANTUM display too much, but this makes the PRO3 sit too level, making the reach for controls and reading the display harder... This is where the tilt comes in handy so that I can access the front panel without any problems.

So for me it will be the SE edition  :)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 20, 2020, 07:57:38 AM
From my experience with the Prophet 12, I didn't find the digital wave shapes of that instrument line to come even close to the wide selection of timbres offered by the Evolvers.  That's why I've always thought the claim that the P12 was the new PEK was a bit of a stretch.  But the Pro 3 is clearly a different matter, with a broad variety of tones.  I'll be interested to hear a demonstration that slowly runs through all those digital wave shapes for our ears to hear.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Soundquest on January 20, 2020, 09:04:36 AM
What I'd really like to know is what poly synth direction Sequential will be taking in the future.  I'm hoping something worthy will replace the Prophet 12.

Well that makes two of us.  I love my P12, and my PEK still is alive, but I'd really like to see Sequential hit the market next year with a large poly that can merge the best of the two. 
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 20, 2020, 09:56:11 AM
They've so developed and refined their technology over the past five or six years that I would hope they finally funnel it into the big one.  And since the $3,000 red line no longer exists, the sky is the limit.   
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 20, 2020, 10:15:19 AM
With Sequential's usual two announcements per year (either keyboard/desktop version OR X and XL version ;) ) I do wonder....could we see anything else later this year?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on January 20, 2020, 10:54:05 AM
From my experience with the Prophet 12, I didn't find the digital wave shapes of that instrument line to come even close to the wide selection of timbres offered by the Evolvers.  That's why I've always thought the claim that the P12 was the new PEK was a bit of a stretch.  But the Pro 3 is clearly a different matter, with a broad variety of tones.  I'll be interested to hear a demonstration that slowly runs through all those digital wave shapes for our ears to hear.

With 32 wavetables each having 16 waveforms that can morph in 256 discrete steps, that would make 8.192 (32*256 waveforms) different waveforms, so I do not think you'll hear a demo of each setting to be honest  ;)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on January 20, 2020, 11:00:16 AM
I bet, that since we're seeing a new ladder filter from Sequential, that this will probably be rolled into the next polysynth from them maybe. often new stuff is introduced in a mono, then later put into a larger project. One of the areas where Sequential still need to expand is in the poly synth department of their filters... they only have the OB-6 that has a state variable filter, the rest is usually limited to lowpass... we need to see a poly synth that like many other current polysynths, have dual filters with routable configurations for more sound sculpting posibilities... also I'd like to see them include a true stereo signal path again soon... all the way from double L/R oscillators to the FX section.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 20, 2020, 11:30:16 AM
With Sequential's usual two announcements per year (either keyboard/desktop version OR X and XL version ;) ) I do wonder....could we see anything else later this year?

I would think so, since it's hard to believe the Pro 3 would have required all of the past year's research and development.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 20, 2020, 11:31:57 AM
From my experience with the Prophet 12, I didn't find the digital wave shapes of that instrument line to come even close to the wide selection of timbres offered by the Evolvers.  That's why I've always thought the claim that the P12 was the new PEK was a bit of a stretch.  But the Pro 3 is clearly a different matter, with a broad variety of tones.  I'll be interested to hear a demonstration that slowly runs through all those digital wave shapes for our ears to hear.

With 32 wavetables each having 16 waveforms that can morph in 256 discrete steps, that would make 8.192 (32*256 waveforms) different waveforms, so I do not think you'll hear a demo of each setting to be honest  ;)

That's true!  But someone might cylce through a large number for us.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 20, 2020, 11:33:59 AM
I bet, that since we're seeing a new ladder filter from Sequential, that this will probably be rolled into the next polysynth from them maybe. often new stuff is introduced in a mono, then later put into a larger project. One of the areas where Sequential still need to expand is in the poly synth department of their filters... they only have the OB-6 that has a state variable filter, the rest is usually limited to lowpass... we need to see a poly synth that like many other current polysynths, have dual filters with routable configurations for more sound sculpting posibilities... also I'd like to see them include a true stereo signal path again soon... all the way from double L/R oscillators to the FX section.

If so, it will be in the reverse order of the past.  The company has always started with the full-scale instrument, and then released smaller versions.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: chysn on January 20, 2020, 12:13:19 PM
Yeah I was thinking of selling our MEK to fund a Pro 3 but I decided against that as the sonic character of the MEK is second to none, and they don’t make them anymore.   So I’ll sell our Minilogue XD, and I have a friend that works at Guitar Center who gives me his Friends and Family discount! 

Are any of you who are buying a Pro 3 going with the Special Edition or the Standard?  I’ll go standard

If I get one, almost certainly standard. The SE looks amazing, obviously, but alternate uses for the money become pretty stark at around the $500 range.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on January 20, 2020, 12:33:58 PM
I bet, that since we're seeing a new ladder filter from Sequential, that this will probably be rolled into the next polysynth from them maybe. often new stuff is introduced in a mono, then later put into a larger project. One of the areas where Sequential still need to expand is in the poly synth department of their filters... they only have the OB-6 that has a state variable filter, the rest is usually limited to lowpass... we need to see a poly synth that like many other current polysynths, have dual filters with routable configurations for more sound sculpting posibilities... also I'd like to see them include a true stereo signal path again soon... all the way from double L/R oscillators to the FX section.

If so, it will be in the reverse order of the past.  The company has always started with the full-scale instrument, and then released smaller versions.

Hardwarewize yes, but not software... We see past software enhancements carried over into new stuff rather often... Btw. Did the p6 filter not introduce in the pro2, only to find its way into the p6 later?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 20, 2020, 12:34:20 PM

Are any of you who are buying a Pro 3 going with the Special Edition or the Standard?  I’ll go standard

To be honest the only thing I really like about the SE is the SEQUENTIAL name plate at the bottom. I wonder if Sequential would be willing to sell that plate separately so people can put that on their synths if they want. That's something that I wish was on the PX to be honest.

The wood looks nice though but don't really care about the adjustable panel. It's a nice to have but I don't really require it in my setup because I usually stand while I play or when I do sit it's usually to play the PX by itself.


Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on January 20, 2020, 12:38:22 PM
Anyway, we need to see a new 16 voice analog synth from Sequential, that will flagship the p6 and ob6... Analog oscillators and filters, both discrete and characterful, with dual timbral capabilities, and if you ask me, it is about time for someone to take analog fx serious in a synth!
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 20, 2020, 12:39:08 PM
With Sequential's usual two announcements per year (either keyboard/desktop version OR X and XL version ;) ) I do wonder....could we see anything else later this year?

I would think so, since it's hard to believe the Pro 3 would have required all of the past year's research and development.

I know it's not really what everybody would want but a standalone multi track analog sequencer would be nice, especially if it was economically priced, sort of like a standalone version of the Pro 3's sequencer but perhaps with polyphonic tracks as well. I doubt they would do it though. Way too much competition but still....something like the Oberheim Two Voice Pro sequencer mixed with the Pro 3's sequencer with song mode that can be saved via flash card etc.

I also highly doubt we'll see a full fledged poly synth later in the year...it would be a missed opportunity to make a big statement at NAMM.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on January 20, 2020, 12:44:46 PM
A desktop PRO3 would also sell quite well... They could further cut the price by removing the cv stuff and three controls  and even the extra midi out for that matter.. I bet many would really want such a synth for their allready crammed desktop space.

To me the cv part is overkill... The synth in itself is so powerful and capable, I dont even know what I would want to connect... Yes, it is a cool eurorack controller, but way to expensive just for that...a keystep pro would be a much more go to solution for that.

The problem for me regarding pro3 and eurorack connection is the lack of preset saving... The pro3 has full preset functionality, but as soon as you introduce modular stuff into the chain, you preset saving gets screwed up with some things saveable and others not... If I was to add modules myself, I would probably end up with analog FX modules, but then I would have to get two of each or spoil the pro3 stereo signal path... Its just that no matter what I think up, I feel that something gets compromised.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 20, 2020, 12:52:14 PM
Anyway, we need to see a new 16 voice analog synth from Sequential, that will flagship the p6 and ob6... Analog oscillators and filters, both discrete and characterful, with dual timbral capabilities, and if you ask me, it is about time for someone to take analog fx serious in a synth!

I still say a Prophet 20 with an optional lower manual keybed that you can attach to the bottom of it so you'll have 10 entire keyboards of VCO based goodness on hand.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: narkosys on January 20, 2020, 12:56:28 PM
Anyway, we need to see a new 16 voice analog synth from Sequential, that will flagship the p6 and ob6... Analog oscillators and filters, both discrete and characterful, with dual timbral capabilities, and if you ask me, it is about time for someone to take analog fx serious in a synth!

I still say a Prophet 20 with an optional lower manual keybed that you can attach to the bottom of it so you'll have 10 entire keyboards of VCO based goodness on hand.

Can you imagine bringing back the Prophet 10 but with TWO rev 16 boards?!?  The mind boggles, and the GAS begins to rev.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 20, 2020, 01:01:29 PM
A desktop PRO3 would also sell quite well... They could further cut the price by removing the cv stuff and three controls  and even the extra midi out for that matter.. I bet many would really want such a synth for their allready crammed desktop space.

To me the cv part is overkill... The synth in itself is so powerful and capable, I dont even know what I would want to connect... Yes, it is a cool eurorack controller, but way to expensive just for that...a kdystep pro would be a much more go to solution for that.

The problem for me regarding pro3 and eurorack connection is th lack of preset saving... The pro3 has full preset functionality, but as soon as you introduce modular stuff into the chain, you preset saving gets screwed up with some things saveable and others not... If I was to add modules myself, I would probably end up with analog FX modules, but then I would have to get two of each or spoil the pro3 stereo signal path... Its just that no matter what I think up, I feel that something gets compromised.

Well the ability to have MIDI and CV helps to have the Pro 3 as a modular setup's brain. This is why I think a standalone sequencer would be a better idea than a desktop Pro 3 as most people use it's sequencer functionality for external gear anyway.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 20, 2020, 01:05:47 PM
Anyway, we need to see a new 16 voice analog synth from Sequential, that will flagship the p6 and ob6... Analog oscillators and filters, both discrete and characterful, with dual timbral capabilities, and if you ask me, it is about time for someone to take analog fx serious in a synth!

I still say a Prophet 20 with an optional lower manual keybed that you can attach to the bottom of it so you'll have 10 entire keyboards of VCO based goodness on hand.

Can you imagine bringing back the Prophet 10 but with TWO rev 16 boards?!?  The mind boggles, and the GAS begins to rev.

I was going to say two Prophet 6 boards with REV 2 functionality.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on January 20, 2020, 01:09:46 PM
A desktop PRO3 would also sell quite well... They could further cut the price by removing the cv stuff and three controls  and even the extra midi out for that matter.. I bet many would really want such a synth for their allready crammed desktop space.

To me the cv part is overkill... The synth in itself is so powerful and capable, I dont even know what I would want to connect... Yes, it is a cool eurorack controller, but way to expensive just for that...a kdystep pro would be a much more go to solution for that.

The problem for me regarding pro3 and eurorack connection is th lack of preset saving... The pro3 has full preset functionality, but as soon as you introduce modular stuff into the chain, you preset saving gets screwed up with some things saveable and others not... If I was to add modules myself, I would probably end up with analog FX modules, but then I would have to get two of each or spoil the pro3 stereo signal path... Its just that no matter what I think up, I feel that something gets compromised.

Well the ability to have MIDI and CV helps to have the Pro 3 as a modular setup. This is why I think a standalone sequencer would be a better idea than a desktop Pro 3 as most people use it's sequencer functionality for external gear anyway.

If your use for a pro3 is solely to control modular and external stuff yes... But that would be an utter waste of the pro3 would it not?... I think there will be more people buying the pro3 for the pro3 sound than those who buy it for either controlling external things or both... That is why I think a desktop version with focus on only the pro3 would be a good ideer... Then you could eventually make that into two products by disecting the pro3 from the cv and sequencer stuff instead of what it is now... The sequencer I would still like to have in the pro3 though... Very important for the pro3 itself.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 20, 2020, 01:15:20 PM
A desktop PRO3 would also sell quite well... They could further cut the price by removing the cv stuff and three controls  and even the extra midi out for that matter.. I bet many would really want such a synth for their allready crammed desktop space.

To me the cv part is overkill... The synth in itself is so powerful and capable, I dont even know what I would want to connect... Yes, it is a cool eurorack controller, but way to expensive just for that...a kdystep pro would be a much more go to solution for that.

The problem for me regarding pro3 and eurorack connection is th lack of preset saving... The pro3 has full preset functionality, but as soon as you introduce modular stuff into the chain, you preset saving gets screwed up with some things saveable and others not... If I was to add modules myself, I would probably end up with analog FX modules, but then I would have to get two of each or spoil the pro3 stereo signal path... Its just that no matter what I think up, I feel that something gets compromised.

Well the ability to have MIDI and CV helps to have the Pro 3 as a modular setup. This is why I think a standalone sequencer would be a better idea than a desktop Pro 3 as most people use it's sequencer functionality for external gear anyway.

If your use for a pro3 is solely to control modular and external stuff yes... But that would be an utter waste of the pro3 would it not?... I think there will be more people buying the pro3 for the pro3 sound than those who buy it for either controlling external things or both... That is why I think a desktop version with focus on only the pro3 would be a good ideer... Then you could eventually make that into two products by disecting the pro3 from the cv and sequencer stuff instead of what it is now... The sequencer I would still like to have in the pro3 though... Very important for the pro3 itself.

Well I think it's more for blending the Pro 3's sound with the external gear's sound. Sure you are controlling mostly mono synths but a Pro 3 layered with an SEM Pro and ARP Odyssey Desktop doing a bassline would be wild.

I still say, take out the Pro 3's engine. Have a standalone sequencer with additional functionality and call it the Sequential Programmer (as a tribute to Sequential's early standalone sequencers)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: OceanMachine on January 20, 2020, 03:27:38 PM
One could add all sorts of things like the Waldorf NW1, but the Pro 3 sounds MASSIVE all by itself and is a modulation beast. It's going to take up so much room in the mix as is. I was thinking of perhaps adding modules strictly for percussion (again, open to suggestions) and selling my drum machine, but only if they have saveable patches. The drum machine I currently own (Rytm MkII) does have CV Ins, but with its advanced parameter locks, much like the Pro 3, it doesn't seem to need the extra help. Along with the gorgeous poly I own (the P6), I don't think I'll need any other gear to achieve what I need for quite some time.

Another route (that also wouldn't take advantage of the CVs) I was thinking of taking is the Nord Drum 3P because I'm a capable drummer and getting a sequencer like the Pyramid or Squid for playback when I'm using the other instruments. It would be nice to play with sticks again.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on January 20, 2020, 03:36:10 PM
One could add all sorts of things like the Waldorf NW1, but the Pro 3 sounds MASSIVE all by itself and is a modulation beast. It's going to take up so much room in the mix as is. I was thinking of perhaps adding modules strictly for percussion (again, open to suggestions) and selling my drum machine, but only if they have saveable patches. The drum machine I currently own (Rytm MkII) does have CV Ins, but with its advanced parameter locks, much like the Pro 3, it doesn't seem to need the extra help. Along with the gorgeous poly I own (the P6), I don't think I'll need any other gear to achieve what I need for quite some time.

Another route (that also wouldn't take advantage of the CVs) I was thinking of taking is the Nord Drum 3P because I'm a capable drummer and getting a sequencer like the Pyramid or Squid for playback when I'm using the other instruments. It would be nice to play with sticks again.

But if we get user wavetables for PRO3, then how much would a NW1 add to the PRO3?

I may try and find some modular FX for it though, just to use its features.. chorus, phaser, flanger, delay etc... I guess how useful the CV stuff really is, depend on how you work... if you're used to modular, and do not care about saving tuff, then PRO3 would be a modular modulation powerhouse for sure, letting you save a lot of money on modulation modules etc.. but you'd have to sort of "forget" about the preset funktionallity of PRO3 then... to me it's like that when you add modular stuff on to PRO3, then all the total recall stuff of the PRO3 starts to disolve into modular hell instead... not for me, but may be another users god sent  :)

It's just my OCD kickin' in... I want to use all available holes in my synths, otherwise I feel something is missing  ;D (yes... I know that sentense could be read as dirty... please don't  :-X)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on January 22, 2020, 02:10:59 AM
With Sequential's usual two announcements per year (either keyboard/desktop version OR X and XL version ;) ) I do wonder....could we see anything else later this year?

I would think so, since it's hard to believe the Pro 3 would have required all of the past year's research and development.

It did, though.

Do you know the sample rate at which the mod matrix operates? if it is supposed to run audio via CV's it must be at least 44.1Khz? ... If I recall right, the Prophet 12 was a lot lower than that... I'm really interrested in knowing the update speed of the mod matrix other than just "audio rate" which is a vague explanation really.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 22, 2020, 02:13:54 AM
Do you know the sample rate at which the mod matrix operates? if it is supposed to run audio via CV's it must be at least 44.1Khz? ... If I recall right, the Prophet 12 was a lot lower than that... I'm really interrested in knowing the update speed of the mod matrix other than just "audio rate" which is a vague explanation really.

I don't know, sorry.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on January 22, 2020, 02:34:47 AM
Do you know the sample rate at which the mod matrix operates? if it is supposed to run audio via CV's it must be at least 44.1Khz? ... If I recall right, the Prophet 12 was a lot lower than that... I'm really interrested in knowing the update speed of the mod matrix other than just "audio rate" which is a vague explanation really.

I don't know, sorry.

I had sort of guessed that... but it never hurts to ask :) ... guess I'll just have to wait until Sequential answer the question then... I have asked once earlier... I jus cannot imagine a rate slower then 44.1KHz since they boast that the PRO3 can send audio signals in and out of the CVs... if it get's lower than 44.1KHz you would degrade the audio signal thru that... with the Prophet 12 that did not have this CV feature it did not matter as much I guess.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: OceanMachine on January 22, 2020, 08:46:46 AM
I would think so, since it's hard to believe the Pro 3 would have required all of the past year's research and development.
https://youtu.be/91XNDArxSlc?t=855
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on January 22, 2020, 09:44:47 AM
Again he says 32 wavetables with 16 wavetables in them each... The term "wavetable" certainly can be confusing  ;D

Just for good meassure, it is 32 wavetables with each 16 single cycle waveforms in them... And as stated by others, they are 16bit, and 1024 samples long, and can be morphed in 256 steps... And according to another video, they might introduce either user wavetables or more factory wavetables in the future, something I will be following very carefuly  ;)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 22, 2020, 02:08:11 PM
I would think so, since it's hard to believe the Pro 3 would have required all of the past year's research and development.
https://youtu.be/91XNDArxSlc?t=855

But as Dave said, it didn't absorb all their R and D.  Another instrument will be appearing in a few months.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: OceanMachine on January 22, 2020, 02:21:03 PM
Which is why I posted that. Dave also said it was easier to design, so perhaps it fits into your lower end market hopes...
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 22, 2020, 02:29:39 PM
Thanks for the video.  Yes, it does pique my interest to hear there's another instrument on the way.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 22, 2020, 02:35:14 PM
Well it won't be a Tempest 2 or Poly Evolver 2 or any such thing. Perhaps a smaller poly synth akin to the MophoX4 but based on the Prophet REV 2?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Quatschmacher on January 22, 2020, 02:49:13 PM
I would think so, since it's hard to believe the Pro 3 would have required all of the past year's research and development.
https://youtu.be/91XNDArxSlc?t=855

But as Dave said, it didn't absorb all their R and D.  Another instrument will be appearing in a few months.

When he said it was easier to implement and one of the Sequential team recently said that the next instrument would be for a different kind of musician, I was thinking something like a sequencer or a drum machine. (Obviously I hope it’ll be a 5-octave poly.)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on January 22, 2020, 03:05:47 PM
I would think so, since it's hard to believe the Pro 3 would have required all of the past year's research and development.
https://youtu.be/91XNDArxSlc?t=855 (https://youtu.be/91XNDArxSlc?t=855)

But as Dave said, it didn't absorb all their R and D.  Another instrument will be appearing in a few months.

When he said it was easier to implement and one of the Sequential team recently said that the next instrument would be for a different kind of musician, I was thinking something like a sequencer or a drum machine. (Obviously I hope it’ll be a 5-octave poly.)


A “different kind of musician” could just mean “a big poly synth with no sequencer”.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on January 22, 2020, 03:46:29 PM
Or ,maybe it's just a semi modular synth... that would not require a lot of software coding, which would no doubt make it easier to implement... maybe it's something that will use the new ladder filter... who knows...
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Razmo on January 22, 2020, 04:43:04 PM
Regarding the oscillator destinations, does these include the individual vcas of the oscillators, so that you can do ringmod via the mod matrix? (or Audio Modulation/AM as it was called on the evolvers)

The oscillators as such are the destinations. There is a ring mod in the effects section, though, with selectable waveforms (saw and sine).

With the manual out now, I can see OSC 1-3 level in the destinations, so individual amplitude modulation should very well be possible :)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 22, 2020, 10:36:28 PM
I would think so, since it's hard to believe the Pro 3 would have required all of the past year's research and development.
https://youtu.be/91XNDArxSlc?t=855


But as Dave said, it didn't absorb all their R and D.  Another instrument will be appearing in a few months.

When he said it was easier to implement and one of the Sequential team recently said that the next instrument would be for a different kind of musician, I was thinking something like a sequencer or a drum machine. (Obviously I hope it’ll be a 5-octave poly.)

Please be a sequencer please be a sequencer please be a sequencer please be a sequencer please be a sequencer.

Or maybe a guitar synthesizer?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Quatschmacher on January 23, 2020, 04:54:22 AM
I would think so, since it's hard to believe the Pro 3 would have required all of the past year's research and development.
https://youtu.be/91XNDArxSlc?t=855 (https://youtu.be/91XNDArxSlc?t=855)

But as Dave said, it didn't absorb all their R and D.  Another instrument will be appearing in a few months.

When he said it was easier to implement and one of the Sequential team recently said that the next instrument would be for a different kind of musician, I was thinking something like a sequencer or a drum machine. (Obviously I hope it’ll be a 5-octave poly.)


A “different kind of musician” could just mean “a big poly synth with no sequencer”.

I’d be fine with that! And given the retirement of the Prophet 12, that would seem an obvious conclusion to jump to. I guess “easier to implement” is a relative term when talking about the creative wizards at Sequential so it is still likely to be something complex and amazing.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: composerjk on January 23, 2020, 08:45:18 AM
Please be a sequencer please be a sequencer please be a sequencer please be a sequencer please be a sequencer.

Have you taken a look at Five12’s Vector Sequencer? Here's a Sonic State video with Jim Coker (founder) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJ8zGX56H0Q) demoing the Vector Sequencer from last weekend's NAMM. Though initially built for Eurorack, it supports both MIDI and CV well. His Numerology sequencer software is also nice.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: jg666 on January 23, 2020, 01:11:34 PM
Oh dear, I’ve been watching videos from NAMM with Dave talking about the Pro 3. Every time I watch or listen to him I want to buy all his synths  ;D 
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: S Y Z Y G Y X on January 23, 2020, 02:05:56 PM
I feel the same... Dave just has such a likeable, make-you-buy-all-my-synths, face ;D

Can’t wait to order our Pro 3, next week will have the funds! 

Decided to keep our MEK as well!   
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 25, 2020, 05:09:56 PM
I'll be interested to hear a demonstration that slowly runs through all those digital wave shapes for our ears to hear.

Dave runs through just a few of these wave shapes at the beginning of this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UGXbhwtHrY
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dizzy on February 11, 2020, 09:20:24 PM
I'd like Pro-3 style switchable filters but in an 8-16 voice poly, with a 5 octave keyboard. 
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Quatschmacher on April 08, 2020, 03:42:00 AM
I'd like Pro-3 style switchable filters but in an 8-16 voice poly, with a 5 octave keyboard.
Here’s hoping that Dave’s August synth release will deliver on just that; if it does, I’m buying it.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on April 08, 2020, 05:50:43 AM
I'd like Pro-3 style switchable filters but in an 8-16 voice poly, with a 5 octave keyboard.
Here’s hoping that Dave’s August synth release will deliver on just that; if it does, I’m buying it.

I can't see it being the synth he announces in August but I can see it happening next year.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Quatschmacher on April 08, 2020, 04:25:41 PM
I'd like Pro-3 style switchable filters but in an 8-16 voice poly, with a 5 octave keyboard.
Here’s hoping that Dave’s August synth release will deliver on just that; if it does, I’m buying it.


I can't see it being the synth he announces in August but I can see it happening next year.

Why not? And if not, what do you think August's release will be?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on April 08, 2020, 05:04:33 PM
I'd like Pro-3 style switchable filters but in an 8-16 voice poly, with a 5 octave keyboard.
Here’s hoping that Dave’s August synth release will deliver on just that; if it does, I’m buying it.


I can't see it being the synth he announces in August but I can see it happening next year.

Why not? And if not, what do you think August's release will be?

"Easier to implement" and "A different kind of musician" I just don't see applying to what is essentially a flagship synth. I just feel it would be a tad odd to release two flagship synths in one year.

What I can see however is a replacement for the MOPHOX4 based on the Prophet REV2 architecture. Just a smaller and simpler four voice poly synth.

As much as I would like to see something radical like a vocoder or guitar synthesizer system or something geared towards "A different kind of musician" I don't think Dave wants to step outside the realm of keyboards anymore (Save for maybe a new drum machine but I can't see him doing it on his own and with Roger Linn already working on a new drum machine I don't think Dave would bother). Maybe "a different kind of musician" simply just means "beginner" or "more affordable". While there may seem like there are plenty of options for that on the market already (Korg Minilogue etc) most of them feature mini keys and I think Sequential offering a USA made affordable four voice poly synth option to their catalog might be a nice addition. Even for people who own higher tier gear like a Prophet 6. Think of it as Sequential's Juno to compliment their Jupiter if you get my drift.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Quatschmacher on April 08, 2020, 05:59:07 PM
I'd like Pro-3 style switchable filters but in an 8-16 voice poly, with a 5 octave keyboard.
Here’s hoping that Dave’s August synth release will deliver on just that; if it does, I’m buying it.


I can't see it being the synth he announces in August but I can see it happening next year.

Why not? And if not, what do you think August's release will be?

"Easier to implement" and "A different kind of musician" I just don't see applying to what is essentially a flagship synth. I just feel it would be a tad odd to release two flagship synths in one year.

What I can see however is a replacement for the MOPHOX4 based on the Prophet REV2 architecture. Just a smaller and simpler four voice poly synth.

As much as I would like to see something radical like a vocoder or guitar synthesizer system or something geared towards "A different kind of musician" I don't think Dave wants to step outside the realm of keyboards anymore (Save for maybe a new drum machine but I can't see him doing it on his own and with Roger Linn already working on a new drum machine I don't think Dave would bother). Maybe "a different kind of musician" simply just means "beginner" or "more affordable". While there may seem like there are plenty of options for that on the market already (Korg Minilogue etc) most of them feature mini keys and I think Sequential offering a USA made affordable four voice poly synth option to their catalog might be a nice addition. Even for people who own higher tier gear like a Prophet 6. Think of it as Sequential's Juno to compliment their Jupiter if you get my drift.

I was kind of hoping “different kind of musician” might mean something like “someone who wants to play more than one note at a time”. Also I wondered if it might be a Prophet 12 “replacement” - that didn’t have a sequencer, so my thinking was a synth which doesn’t have the (Pro 3) sequencer would be “easier to implement”. (So would a 5-octave Prophet 6 to be fair.)

Interesting if they do bring out something in the Mopho 4x mould though.

Whatever it is, I’m sure it’ll be great and I look forward to seeing and hearing it in due course.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on April 08, 2020, 07:00:02 PM
"A different kind of musician" could also refer to one that's not proficient at synthesizer programming.  Maybe he means a simple instrument with presets and few parameters, like a workstation.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on April 08, 2020, 07:05:49 PM
"A different kind of musician" could also refer to one that's not proficient at synthesizer programming.  Maybe he means a simple instrument with presets and few parameters, like a workstation.

Like the old Sequential Max? No knobs galore.

http://www.vintagesynth.com/sci/max.php
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on April 08, 2020, 07:07:46 PM
I'd like Pro-3 style switchable filters but in an 8-16 voice poly, with a 5 octave keyboard.
Here’s hoping that Dave’s August synth release will deliver on just that; if it does, I’m buying it.


I can't see it being the synth he announces in August but I can see it happening next year.

Why not? And if not, what do you think August's release will be?

"Easier to implement" and "A different kind of musician" I just don't see applying to what is essentially a flagship synth. I just feel it would be a tad odd to release two flagship synths in one year.

What I can see however is a replacement for the MOPHOX4 based on the Prophet REV2 architecture. Just a smaller and simpler four voice poly synth.

As much as I would like to see something radical like a vocoder or guitar synthesizer system or something geared towards "A different kind of musician" I don't think Dave wants to step outside the realm of keyboards anymore (Save for maybe a new drum machine but I can't see him doing it on his own and with Roger Linn already working on a new drum machine I don't think Dave would bother). Maybe "a different kind of musician" simply just means "beginner" or "more affordable". While there may seem like there are plenty of options for that on the market already (Korg Minilogue etc) most of them feature mini keys and I think Sequential offering a USA made affordable four voice poly synth option to their catalog might be a nice addition. Even for people who own higher tier gear like a Prophet 6. Think of it as Sequential's Juno to compliment their Jupiter if you get my drift.

I was kind of hoping “different kind of musician” might mean something like “someone who wants to play more than one note at a time”. Also I wondered if it might be a Prophet 12 “replacement” - that didn’t have a sequencer, so my thinking was a synth which doesn’t have the (Pro 3) sequencer would be “easier to implement”. (So would a 5-octave Prophet 6 to be fair.)

Interesting if they do bring out something in the Mopho 4x mould though.

Whatever it is, I’m sure it’ll be great and I look forward to seeing and hearing it in due course.

Naw I think a sequencer is a must for a synth these days. It would be a silly omission. Personally I’m put off by both the Summit and HydraSynth due to lack of sequencer.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on April 08, 2020, 07:09:33 PM
"A different kind of musician" could also refer to one that's not proficient at synthesizer programming.  Maybe he means a simple instrument with presets and few parameters, like a workstation.

Like the old Sequential Max? No knobs galore.

http://www.vintagesynth.com/sci/max.php

Egads, what a cyclops!  I was thinking more of the Korg workstations.  It wouldn't be so far-fetched after the Prophet X.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on April 08, 2020, 07:18:05 PM
"A different kind of musician"
A guitar...?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on April 08, 2020, 07:53:59 PM
"A different kind of musician"
A guitar...?

As Dave is a guitarist as well it would be interesting. I was watching an old video where he was running his guitar into an Evolver. https://youtu.be/3cuQXSGnUnU
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on April 08, 2020, 07:57:41 PM
"A different kind of musician" could also refer to one that's not proficient at synthesizer programming.  Maybe he means a simple instrument with presets and few parameters, like a workstation.

Like the old Sequential Max? No knobs galore.

http://www.vintagesynth.com/sci/max.php

Egads, what a cyclops!  I was thinking more of the Korg workstations.  It wouldn't be so far-fetched after the Prophet X.

Nah Dave already dismissed workstations during an interview with the Prophet X. “Everybody has workstations but the issue with workstations is they require you to work. It’s in the name! Who wants to work?” Lol

I think if we were going to see any type of workstation from Sequential the Prophet X/XL would have been it and frankly it would have been silly to do. The market is way too flooded with them from Roland to Yamaha to Korg to Kurzweil.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: narkosys on April 09, 2020, 12:39:01 AM
If they came out with a rival to the minilogue but with full sized keys, I would probably jump all over that.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on April 09, 2020, 09:44:52 AM
"A different kind of musician" could also refer to one that's not proficient at synthesizer programming.  Maybe he means a simple instrument with presets and few parameters, like a workstation.

Like the old Sequential Max? No knobs galore.

http://www.vintagesynth.com/sci/max.php

Egads, what a cyclops!  I was thinking more of the Korg workstations.  It wouldn't be so far-fetched after the Prophet X.

Nah Dave already dismissed workstations during an interview with the Prophet X. “Everybody has workstations but the issue with workstations is they require you to work. It’s in the name! Who wants to work?” Lol

I think if we were going to see any type of workstation from Sequential the Prophet X/XL would have been it and frankly it would have been silly to do. The market is way too flooded with them from Roland to Yamaha to Korg to Kurzweil.

That's my point - the Prophet X.  Who would ever have thought such an instrument would come from the guy who many times has criticized the use of synthesizers as instruments of imitation?  The PX was an about face.  I'm not suggesting a workstation in its common form, but something similar to it.  You yourself have said that Dave is full of surprises - for example, on the P6-VCO issue.  It's true also regarding the Rev2.  And there was also much skepticim about the production of an essentially monophonic synthesizer.  That's why, in spite of all, I could still imagine Sequential producing a Poly Evolver Mk II, in spitie of the "No, never" claims. 

I would call the Rev2, PX, and Pro3 "unexpected" instruments.  Dave has a touch of capriciousness about him; he not infrequently does precisely what he's said he will not do.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: OceanMachine on April 09, 2020, 10:11:07 AM
That's my point - the Prophet X.  Who would ever have thought such an instrument would come from the guy who many times has criticized the use of synthesizers as instruments of imitation?

I mean, it's not that surprising considering the Prophet 2000.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: jok3r on April 09, 2020, 10:23:06 AM
If he does a workstation kind of synthesizer it would only be interesting for me, if it could outperform a Kronos. That didn‘t happen since 2011 ... there were many tries from all the companies out there, and in one or the other regard they succeed. But in the whole, there is no workstation like Kronos.

If there was a true 88 keys Kronos Killer coming in the same price range about 4000€ (lesser, if lesser keys) I would give it a try for sure.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on April 09, 2020, 10:50:56 AM
That's my point - the Prophet X.  Who would ever have thought such an instrument would come from the guy who many times has criticized the use of synthesizers as instruments of imitation?

I mean, it's not that surprising considering the Prophet 2000.

And how long ago was that?  I'm referring to multiple interviews in the last few years in which he has gently expressed his disliking for the use of synthesizers for emulating existing instruments.  He wants people to use his painstakingly designed instruments to produce new sounds. 

I'm indifferent about it myself.  I use my synthesizers for both.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on April 09, 2020, 10:52:47 AM
If he does a workstation kind of synthesizer it would only be interesting for me, if it could outperform a Kronos. That didn‘t happen since 2011 ... there were many tries from all the companies out there, and in one or the other regard they succeed. But in the whole, there is no workstation like Kronos.

If there was a true 88 keys Kronos Killer coming in the same price range about 4000€ (lesser, if lesser keys) I would give it a try for sure.

Personally, I have no interest in workstations.  So, I'm certainly not encouraging the idea, but just commenting on the possibility.  I do think Dave is good for a surprise from time to time.  That's my main point. 
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: OceanMachine on April 09, 2020, 11:46:55 AM
Considering the not insubstantial price drop of the PX, which is not common business practice since the DSI days, I would assume it didn't do quite as well as initially expected. Coupled with the fact that UI software is certainly not their strong suit, a workstation would be dead last on my things expected list. Besides, the whole endeavor seems absurd considering their manpower when going against these huge corporations that design and put out such products. I just can't at all see how that would be "easier" to design for the company. Perhaps they want to make the most out of the R&D put into the X, in that case I would say a Tempest X somewhere down the line is certainly possible, although not coming next according to Dave's recent comments. The Tempest is already imo pretty much the ideal groovebox "platform" as is, so it's not like they need Roger's direct involvement this time.

A REV2 Tetra does make sense from a business standpoint. However, what would be considerably cooler for me on the lower-end front, would be a programmable SEM module with some royalties going to Tom ofc.

As for going forward (i.e. not this next release), digital front-end synths are all the rage these days and a true VS successor would be on the top of most people's lists. Then there's an Evolver successor (hopefully with VCOs this time), which would have little to no competition. The most innovative thing Dave and Co. could do is release an intuitive knobby FM synth that the world has been eagerly waiting for. That or the programmable (with a mod matrix instead of patch cables) modular keyboard platform that I proposed a while back, which would need specific modules that work within the ecosystem (i.e. a huge risk with tons of groundwork needed).
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on April 09, 2020, 11:49:11 AM
I agree with everything you've said, A Thousand Eyes.  I only tossed out the workstation idea as a possibility, a mere guess, and not one that personally interests me.  I don't think it's at all likely.  But...Dave does surpise us at times.

To anyone who's followed this forum for some time, it would be difficult not to notice the many requests that have been made over the years for a new Wavestation/VS/Poly Evolver type of instrument.  It's been a steady drum beat for quite a while.  So many people from so many different musical perspectives have wished for this.  (Considering the age of my PEK/PER pair, it's my wish, too.)  The Sequential staff knows it, and so Dave must know it as well.  But we can only hope for another unexpected surprise.

Nothing sounds like an Evolver.  I listen to the videos of the new exciting feature-rich poly synths as they come out.  I've watched the Peak and Summit demonstrations.  Nice lovely impressive instruments, one after another; but still, nothing sounds like an Evolver, not even a Prophet 12 or a Prophet X.  I had thought the latter might, but no.  So, the Evolver is worth reviving, among other reasons, because in a crowd of poly synths its sonic character still stands out.  It may be related to the stereo filters, or the stereo oscillators, or even the very long envelope times that allow you to achieve a deep dreaminess.  But the Evolver's unique sound definitely has to do with the specific selection of digital oscillators.  These were allegedly designed in a rather haphazard arbitrary way, but the results were memorable.  The tones, combined with the analog oscillators, make the distinctive voice of the Evolver.  Perhaps they might need to be cleaned up a bit - although the aliasing is also an important quality to the Evolver's voice - but they are the heart of the big blue monster.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: jok3r on April 09, 2020, 01:36:05 PM
I did not want to say that I hope it‘s a workstation. In fact, I hope it is not a workstation, because I don‘t believe it could compete with a Kronos. I just wanted to say, if it really is a workstation, it should better be an absolute killer. For the reasons you mentionend about company size, etc., I can‘t believe they would go this way.

When I said I would give it a try, that was not even related to a Sequential workstation only... I would at least try a competitor to Kronos from every company if I really believed it could overcome the flaws of the Kronos.

But if I could choose I‘d rather have a new Kronos from Korg and a Poly Pro3 with 5 octaves and at least 8 voices from Sequential ;-)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: grayxr on April 17, 2020, 02:20:14 PM
My thought is it will be either a basic semi-modular like a Mother 32 or DFAM with a sequencer, or like has already been suggested, a mid-range / value poly-synth with limited voices (odyssey, minilogue, etc). I personally would love either one.

Also, knowing they're working on getting MPE working on the Prophet 6 (and OB-6 presumably), it's possible whatever it will be will have it built in, and so maybe the keyboard quality will be what really drives up the cost, with the actual voice architecture itself being pared down / simpler.

I don't think they'll shoot for an MSRP under $1k USD, though.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: CoffeePockets on June 17, 2020, 02:57:46 AM
My fingers are crossed for a Pro 3 or other monosynth (Pro One tribute maybe?) design in module form. It would look great next to my Prophet 6 and Rev2 modules. I love that form factor and have been holding off on buying the Pro 3 hoping they make it a reality
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Catfax on June 19, 2020, 07:57:27 PM
I feel like something for a "different type of musician" almost has to be interface based, maybe we are looking at a new MPE or midi 2.0 based synth focused on performance interaction more so than knob tweaking. All we really know is that it fits on a table where Dave can work on it :D
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: hiddenagenda on June 25, 2020, 08:54:12 AM
Personally , I'd love to see an (affordable?)  throwback instrument like a DSI VCS 3 type synth with a few modern touches like a program bank of 64 or so patches and some effects - reverb, delay, chorus.  a remake of a Putney like Beringer has been doing.  Arturia got close with the Matrixbrute, but Dave would do it better.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on June 25, 2020, 10:44:55 AM
Personally , I'd love to see an (affordable?)  throwback instrument like a DSI VCS 3 type synth with a few modern touches like a program bank of 64 or so patches and some effects - reverb, delay, chorus.  a remake of a Putney like Beringer has been doing.  Arturia got close with the Matrixbrute, but Dave would do it better.

EricaSynths already did that: https://www.ericasynths.lv/shop/standalone-instruments-1/syntrx/
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: xylokane on July 09, 2020, 02:00:59 PM
Wonder when that announcement is happening...  :o
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: bcbishop on July 09, 2020, 04:49:07 PM
Wonder when that announcement is happening...  :o

Same. If schedules get pushed for any reason, hopefully we’ll get another off-the-cuff mention as an update...
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on July 09, 2020, 09:38:39 PM
Wonder when that announcement is happening...  :o

Should be in August
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: megamarkd on July 25, 2020, 09:40:52 PM
Quote from: https://www.korg-germany.de/The_PyjamaCookbook_by_KORG_Germany_v1_1.pdf (https://korg-germany.de/)
My name is Dave Smith and
I am in my home office / workshop / studio deep into
our next product. Since I work
most of the time at home, ain’t
no big deal being locked up.
Meanwhile the new synth
sounds great! Hope to ship
around August / September.

BTW, I haven’t worn pyjamas
since I was 6…

So news soon?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on July 26, 2020, 04:45:28 PM
Quote from: https://www.korg-germany.de/The_PyjamaCookbook_by_KORG_Germany_v1_1.pdf (https://korg-germany.de/)
My name is Dave Smith and
I am in my home office / workshop / studio deep into
our next product. Since I work
most of the time at home, ain’t
no big deal being locked up.
Meanwhile the new synth
sounds great! Hope to ship
around August / September.

BTW, I haven’t worn pyjamas
since I was 6…

So news soon?

Yup. Hopefully. It’s either going to be something simple like a four voice poly ( half of a Rev 2... a Mophox4 successor)

Or

A mind blowing Prophet 12 successor based on the Pro 3 architecture (VCOs, Wavetables) although preferably with two Wavetable oscillators and two VCOs.

Either way, it should be fun. 
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on July 26, 2020, 06:07:05 PM
Yup. Hopefully. It’s either going to be something simple like a four voice poly (half of a Rev 2... a Mophox4 successor)

I had suggested that, and was told no such instrument would be produced.  But that doesn't really mean anything.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on July 26, 2020, 07:23:49 PM
Yup. Hopefully. It’s either going to be something simple like a four voice poly (half of a Rev 2... a Mophox4 successor)

I had suggested that, and was told no such instrument would be produced.  But that doesn't really mean anything.

I think you may get your wish. I can’t really see Sequential doing a flagship mono and a flagship synth in the same year.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on July 27, 2020, 02:34:06 PM
Yup. Hopefully. It’s either going to be something simple like a four voice poly (half of a Rev 2... a Mophox4 successor)

I had suggested that, and was told no such instrument would be produced.  But that doesn't really mean anything.

Isn't a Rev2 8-voice using 4 voices per layer in multi mode (with the second layer not being used) kind of the same thing?  Plus an 8 voice Rev2 retails for only a couple of hundred more than the Mophox4 was, and comes with a superb 61 note keybed.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on July 27, 2020, 03:31:33 PM
Yup. Hopefully. It’s either going to be something simple like a four voice poly (half of a Rev 2... a Mophox4 successor)

I had suggested that, and was told no such instrument would be produced.  But that doesn't really mean anything.

Isn't a Rev2 8-voice using 4 voices per layer in multi mode (with the second layer not being used) kind of the same thing?  Plus an 8 voice Rev2 retails for only a couple of hundred more than the Mophox4 was, and comes with a superb 61 note keybed.

Well the Mophox4 was similar to half of a Prophet 08 so why not? Three octaves, four voices, etc. You could think of it like Sequential’s Juno to their Jupiter (Prophet). A lower tier version catering to a more simple player who just wants to have a small analog poly synth on the side while they play another instrument.

Also if Sequential price this new synth less than $1K it certainly would be a new market and price tier  for Sequential.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on July 27, 2020, 05:12:36 PM
Yup. Hopefully. It’s either going to be something simple like a four voice poly (half of a Rev 2... a Mophox4 successor)

I had suggested that, and was told no such instrument would be produced.  But that doesn't really mean anything.

Isn't a Rev2 8-voice using 4 voices per layer in multi mode (with the second layer not being used) kind of the same thing?  Plus an 8 voice Rev2 retails for only a couple of hundred more than the Mophox4 was, and comes with a superb 61 note keybed.

Well the Mophox4 was similar to half of a Prophet 08 so why not? Three octaves, four voices, etc. You could think of it like Sequential’s Juno to their Jupiter (Prophet). A lower tier version catering to a more simple player who just wants to have a small analog poly synth on the side while they play another instrument.

Also if Sequential price this new synth less than $1K it certainly would be a new market and price tier  for Sequential.

It would be interesting if they came out with something like a Minilogue XDm at around $600-700 for a module version -- maybe allow custom digital oscillator algorithms and custom FX like the XDm, this is one area I've recently gotten into and it blows me away how much value it adds to the synth, this combined with the motion sequencer inspires lots of experimentation.  I think the user community would be all over it, making creations for Dave's next synth.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on July 27, 2020, 06:02:30 PM
Yup. Hopefully. It’s either going to be something simple like a four voice poly (half of a Rev 2... a Mophox4 successor)

I had suggested that, and was told no such instrument would be produced.  But that doesn't really mean anything.

Isn't a Rev2 8-voice using 4 voices per layer in multi mode (with the second layer not being used) kind of the same thing?  Plus an 8 voice Rev2 retails for only a couple of hundred more than the Mophox4 was, and comes with a superb 61 note keybed.

Well the Mophox4 was similar to half of a Prophet 08 so why not? Three octaves, four voices, etc. You could think of it like Sequential’s Juno to their Jupiter (Prophet). A lower tier version catering to a more simple player who just wants to have a small analog poly synth on the side while they play another instrument.

Also if Sequential price this new synth less than $1K it certainly would be a new market and price tier  for Sequential.

It would be interesting if they came out with something like a Minilogue XDm at around $600-700 for a module version -- maybe allow custom digital oscillator algorithms and custom FX like the XDm, this is one area I've recently gotten into and it blows me away how much value it adds to the synth, this combined with the motion sequencer inspires lots of experimentation.  I think the user community would be all over it, making creations for Dave's next synth.

I don’t see it being a module myself. Nor do I see them even entertaining the thought of minikeys. I think it’ll just be a smaller lower tier analog poly with simple architecture. Perhaps dual effects instead of a single on like on the REV2.


As far as digital oscillators, I think Dave and Co. are saving that for their next big poly synth which hopefully will feature two analog VCOs and two Wavetable oscillators

Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: megamarkd on July 27, 2020, 11:14:28 PM
(too hard to prune quotes I'm not addressing, so they will remain, sorry :-[ scroll past the nested hell and refer back if need be)

Yup. Hopefully. It’s either going to be something simple like a four voice poly (half of a Rev 2... a Mophox4 successor)

I had suggested that, and was told no such instrument would be produced.  But that doesn't really mean anything.

Isn't a Rev2 8-voice using 4 voices per layer in multi mode (with the second layer not being used) kind of the same thing?  Plus an 8 voice Rev2 retails for only a couple of hundred more than the Mophox4 was, and comes with a superb 61 note keybed.

Well the Mophox4 was similar to half of a Prophet 08 so why not? Three octaves, four voices, etc. You could think of it like Sequential’s Juno to their Jupiter (Prophet). A lower tier version catering to a more simple player who just wants to have a small analog poly synth on the side while they play another instrument.

Also if Sequential price this new synth less than $1K it certainly would be a new market and price tier  for Sequential.

It would be interesting if they came out with something like a Minilogue XDm at around $600-700 for a module version -- maybe allow custom digital oscillator algorithms and custom FX like the XDm, this is one area I've recently gotten into and it blows me away how much value it adds to the synth, this combined with the motion sequencer inspires lots of experimentation.  I think the user community would be all over it, making creations for Dave's next synth.

I don’t see it being a module myself. Nor do I see them even entertaining the thought of minikeys. I think it’ll just be a smaller lower tier analog poly with simple architecture. Perhaps dual effects instead of a single on like on the REV2.


As far as digital oscillators, I think Dave and Co. are saving that for their next big poly synth which hopefully will feature two analog VCOs and two Wavetable oscillators


Chrysn disappeared into a coding cave to create one of the most useful alt firmwares for any microprocessor synth modules out there, so yeah, I could imagine Sequential owners would jump into the "roll-your-own-osc" paradigm.  But also it is a rather big risk to run that way.  If it doesn't catch on as well as they hope, it could be a lot of work spent on programming that never pays itself off through increased purchases by interested coding enthusiasts.

Regarding minikeys and desktop modules, I seem to recall some time back a sentiment express that Sequential want to make synths for players and thus there will be full-size keys on everything they release.  Now I could have misinterpret that by thinking that there will be no more desktops.  If I have someone please correct me.

Two VCOs, two wavetables....I'm sure I've seen one of them before with a DSI logo on it....somewhere no so long ago....I'm sure!  Had some name like the "Darwin Theory" or something, but I may have imagined it..... ;)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on July 27, 2020, 11:33:07 PM
(too hard to prune quotes I'm not addressing, so they will remain, sorry :-[ scroll past the nested hell and refer back if need be)

Yup. Hopefully. It’s either going to be something simple like a four voice poly (half of a Rev 2... a Mophox4 successor)

I had suggested that, and was told no such instrument would be produced.  But that doesn't really mean anything.

Isn't a Rev2 8-voice using 4 voices per layer in multi mode (with the second layer not being used) kind of the same thing?  Plus an 8 voice Rev2 retails for only a couple of hundred more than the Mophox4 was, and comes with a superb 61 note keybed.

Well the Mophox4 was similar to half of a Prophet 08 so why not? Three octaves, four voices, etc. You could think of it like Sequential’s Juno to their Jupiter (Prophet). A lower tier version catering to a more simple player who just wants to have a small analog poly synth on the side while they play another instrument.

Also if Sequential price this new synth less than $1K it certainly would be a new market and price tier  for Sequential.

It would be interesting if they came out with something like a Minilogue XDm at around $600-700 for a module version -- maybe allow custom digital oscillator algorithms and custom FX like the XDm, this is one area I've recently gotten into and it blows me away how much value it adds to the synth, this combined with the motion sequencer inspires lots of experimentation.  I think the user community would be all over it, making creations for Dave's next synth.

I don’t see it being a module myself. Nor do I see them even entertaining the thought of minikeys. I think it’ll just be a smaller lower tier analog poly with simple architecture. Perhaps dual effects instead of a single on like on the REV2.


As far as digital oscillators, I think Dave and Co. are saving that for their next big poly synth which hopefully will feature two analog VCOs and two Wavetable oscillators


Chrysn disappeared into a coding cave to create one of the most useful alt firmwares for any microprocessor synth modules out there, so yeah, I could imagine Sequential owners would jump into the "roll-your-own-osc" paradigm.  But also it is a rather big risk to run that way.  If it doesn't catch on as well as they hope, it could be a lot of work spent on programming that never pays itself off through increased purchases by interested coding enthusiasts.

Regarding minikeys and desktop modules, I seem to recall some time back a sentiment express that Sequential want to make synths for players and thus there will be full-size keys on everything they release.  Now I could have misinterpret that by thinking that there will be no more desktops.  If I have someone please correct me.

Two VCOs, two wavetables....I'm sure I've seen one of them before with a DSI logo on it....somewhere no so long ago....I'm sure!  Had some name like the "Darwin Theory" or something, but I may have imagined it..... ;)

I just really hope it comes in blue....or white...just something different visually from the Sequential pallet.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on July 28, 2020, 02:49:46 AM
Regarding minikeys and desktop modules, I seem to recall some time back a sentiment express that Sequential want to make synths for players and thus there will be full-size keys on everything they release.  Now I could have misinterpret that by thinking that there will be no more desktops.  If I have someone please correct me.

I can totally see Dave never producing a mini-key or slim key synth, and frankly I hope he doesn't.
However, I don't see the desktop versions of Prophet 6, Rev 2 or OB-6 going away anytime soon -- especially since it is the only way to expand P6 and OB6 into 12-voice territory.  In addition, much of Dave's customer audience consists of those who must carefully plan and economize their studio working space, and sometimes adding a desktop is the only option.  Meanwhile I do hope he continues the trend of announcing a keyboard version of each product first, desktop later.

Back to non-standardized keys, I can't stand them personally, this was the reason I got the module version of the Minilogue XD.  The slim keys are about the only downside of this unit, so I was happy to ditch them and save $100 in the process.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: bcbishop on July 28, 2020, 09:40:35 AM
No matter what they release it’s going to be interesting, but I do wonder about timing.
Yup. Hopefully. It’s either going to be something simple like a four voice poly (half of a Rev 2... a Mophox4 successor)

I had suggested that, and was told no such instrument would be produced.  But that doesn't really mean anything.

I think you may get your wish. I can’t really see Sequential doing a flagship mono and a flagship synth in the same year.

I imagine you’re right (and this does align with the “different kind of player” comment made in the birthday video), but I do wonder from a roadmap perspective why they would let that Prophet 12 spot in the line-up languish for so long. Prophet 12 keyboard was discontinued before the Pro 2, so it seems a little odd that they Pro 3 would come out ahead of a Prophet 12 replacement. Though I suppose the logic could be that they already have plenty of polys in the line-up, and anybody that is super hardcore about the Prophet 12 can still pick up the module.

Time will tell! The desktop modules do give people a nice and tidy ecosystem to buy into, however. Get one of the keyboard synths, and then just add one of the module to expand the palette while still staying within the Sequential family.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on July 28, 2020, 09:57:13 AM
No matter what they release it’s going to be interesting, but I do wonder about timing.
Yup. Hopefully. It’s either going to be something simple like a four voice poly (half of a Rev 2... a Mophox4 successor)

I had suggested that, and was told no such instrument would be produced.  But that doesn't really mean anything.

I think you may get your wish. I can’t really see Sequential doing a flagship mono and a flagship synth in the same year.

I imagine you’re right (and this does align with the “different kind of player” comment made in the birthday video), but I do wonder from a roadmap perspective why they would let that Prophet 12 spot in the line-up languish for so long. Prophet 12 keyboard was discontinued before the Pro 2, so it seems a little odd that they Pro 3 would come out ahead of a Prophet 12 replacement. Though I suppose the logic could be that they already have plenty of polys in the line-up, and anybody that is super hardcore about the Prophet 12 can still pick up the module.

Time will tell! The desktop modules do give people a nice and tidy ecosystem to buy into, however. Get one of the keyboard synths, and then just add one of the module to expand the palette while still staying within the Sequential family.

I can see them releasing a Prophet 12/Poly Evolver successor next year and it will also have a module version as well. It would just feel really awkward to be like "Here's a Pro 3....and a Pro 3 SE....and a Prophet 12 successor and a Prophet 12 successor desktop too!" all within the same year.

While I would love a Prophet X module, I don't think it's going to happen but I to am looking more and more into modules as a space saving alternative. Still...if a Prophet 12 successor comes out...I'll likely grab the keyboard version.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: megamarkd on July 31, 2020, 04:42:59 AM
I just really hope it comes in blue....or white...just something different visually from the Sequential pallet.

Dark green with wooden end cheeks.  I think that would be rather organic looking! ;)
Oh yeah if you recall, the Evolver was blue!

In all seriousness the Pro3 really does hark back to the concept of the Evolver but missing a digital osc.  I too remember the "no more Evolvers" sentiment, but that Pro3 does remind me it...
A Pro3 poly would be nice.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: MPM on August 08, 2020, 08:02:55 PM
Whatever it is, I hope it's not one of those "groove box" things.
I hope it's something I can't even imagine.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on August 08, 2020, 11:41:07 PM
Whatever it is, I hope it's not one of those "groove box" things.
I hope it's something I can't even imagine.

Oh I dunno might be a nice throwback to the Sequential Studio 440

Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: jok3r on August 09, 2020, 12:20:53 PM
What ever it is... it is august and I want to know it NOW!

(before I throw my money on a full size church-organ-like midi bass pedal... since we‘re not allowed to play any cover band gigs at the moment, I went back to the roots and startet playing organ in church again... different kind of gig... but still a gig ;-) )
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on August 09, 2020, 02:16:27 PM
Which pedal board are you considering?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: jok3r on August 09, 2020, 02:41:45 PM
Which pedal board are you considering?

This one...

https://www.thomann.de/de/viscount_midi_bass_pedal_27_dark_oak.htm

... because its dimensions and pedal count is pretty much the same as in our church. For practicing at home.

Or perhaps this one...

https://www.thomann.de/de/viscount_midi_basspedal_30_konkav.htm

... because it has more pedals and the concave building is more ergonomical in my opinion. Some other churchers near my home town have pedals like this and I liked it very much when I played there.

Because of the price point and lesser weight, I'm tending more towards the first one. Perhaps I could even integrate this in my life setup, when I can play with my band again. Sometimes I could need another hand... and then I remember "hey I could do this with a pedal, because I learned to play the organ when I was a teenager".

I didn't play any church services or the organ in common for 7-8 years now, so never really considered buying one. But now I play again and have a lot of synth at home, so I could build a crazy synth organ like you have. To be true, you and your music are a great inspiration for me. I would like to practice classical organ literature at home without having to go to church and annoy the neighbors for hours every day. And I would like to do something in combination with my synth in a more experimental way like you do. Or a mix of both. Some organ pieces sound absolutely wonderful when played on (analog) synthesizers. What pedal do you use?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on August 09, 2020, 04:04:17 PM
I've played organs with both types of pedal boards, as well as concave/radiating, which is defninitely what I prefer.  I've always found the first one you linked to a killer on the ankles, especially if you follow the classical technique of keeping your knees together while playing on the inside of your feet. 

You bring up a very important topic.  I'm able to afford an instrument right now.  I'd buy a Rev2 if the (final?) update was available.  But I've also been thinking about getting a larger pedal board.  I've gone through several models, but am presently using this one:

https://www.musiciansfriend.com/accessories/hammond-xpk-200l-20-note-pedal-board?source=3WWRWXMG&msclkid=8687143cbe5919b010bc4b0c3e6de9f1&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=

The size is inadequate for what I'd like to do and it has held me back for years, especially from playing the organ literature.  So, I'd love to get this one:

https://www.musiciansfriend.com/keyboards-midi/nord-pedal-keys-27?source=3WWRWXMG&msclkid=c113366b5922195a56e7695bd9ada512&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=

Of course, I'd much prefer a full pedal board, but the Nord seems as if it would be a decent compromise between room and length.  But the price...goodness gracious!

My very first preference:

https://www.viscountinstruments.com/midi-pedalboards-173-173.html

Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: jok3r on August 09, 2020, 10:57:34 PM
You bring up a very important topic.  I'm able to afford an instrument right now.  I'd buy a Rev2 if the (final?) update was available.  But I've also been thinking about getting a larger pedal board.  I've gone through several models, but am presently using this one:

https://www.musiciansfriend.com/accessories/hammond-xpk-200l-20-note-pedal-board?source=3WWRWXMG&msclkid=8687143cbe5919b010bc4b0c3e6de9f1&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=

The size is inadequate for what I'd like to do and it has held me back for years, especially from playing the organ literature.

Yeah this is too small for even the simplest Bach preludes, etc. ... 27 seems to be the minimum to me.

Quote
So, I'd love to get this one:

https://www.musiciansfriend.com/keyboards-midi/nord-pedal-keys-27?source=3WWRWXMG&msclkid=c113366b5922195a56e7695bd9ada512&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=

Of course, I'd much prefer a full pedal board, but the Nord seems as if it would be a decent compromise between room and length.  But the price...goodness gracious!

When I clicked on the link, it got me to the hammond pedal again?! I looked for the nord pedal myself then and yeah: the nords price is a heavy as the viscounts weight ;-)

Quote
My very first preference:

https://www.viscountinstruments.com/midi-pedalboards-173-173.html

Yeah, this would be the non plus ultra, but for me the gap between 32-concave/radiating and 27-straight is too big. Because there's a 27-straight in my church, too, I'm in fear of overfitting myself to another form factor and then miss the right pedals in church everytime.

So I think if I really buy one, it will be the 27-straight Viscount. I don't think the Nord could be an alternative for me. It looks to shaky and small to me and it seems to send midi on a fixed channel (3)? What the...? Is this true or an error from the Thomann shop, where I looked at it? https://www.thomann.de/gb/clavia_nord_pedal_key_27.htm?ref=intl&shp=eyJjb3VudHJ5IjoiZ2IiLCJjdXJyZW5jeSI6IjQiLCJsYW5ndWFnZSI6ImVuIn0%3D (this time i chose the english version ;-) )
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on August 09, 2020, 11:45:30 PM
So I think if I really buy one, it will be the 27-straight Viscount. I don't think the Nord could be an alternative for me. It looks to shaky and small to me and it seems to send midi on a fixed channel (3)? What the...? Is this true or an error from the Thomann shop, where I looked at it? https://www.thomann.de/gb/clavia_nord_pedal_key_27.htm?ref=intl&shp=eyJjb3VudHJ5IjoiZ2IiLCJjdXJyZW5jeSI6IjQiLCJsYW5ndWFnZSI6ImVuIn0%3D (this time i chose the english version ;-) )

Yes, that's the safest plan.  You'll get used to whatever type of pedal board you play, and it's not easy going back and forth between two different configurations.

MIDI channel 3?  I've never been able to try one, nor has anyone given me a certain answer as to whether or not I could control a synthesizer module with the Pedal 27.  I'm thus far running on hope.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on August 10, 2020, 08:13:23 AM
Whatever it is, I hope it's not one of those "groove box" things.
I hope it's something I can't even imagine.

In the video where he mentions the August ship target, he definitely referred to it as a synth.  Although technically one could say the Tempest is a synth, I'd be surprised if he would do a play on words like that.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on August 10, 2020, 10:22:14 AM
It's Dave's statement that this instrument is for a 'different type of musician' that's so cryptic.  I don't see how a smaller synthesizer - say, half a Rev2 in the Mopho x4 tradition - could fit this description.

One thing we've learned over the years: speculation of such things is fun but pointless.  And secondly, Dave definitely does the least expected things.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on August 10, 2020, 10:30:26 AM
He could come out with a guitar MIDI controller, and we’d all be like “yeah, that makes sense... I’ll buy 2”
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on August 10, 2020, 11:54:35 AM
It's Dave's statement that this instrument is for a 'different type of musician' that's so cryptic.  I don't see how a smaller synthesizer - say, half a Rev2 in the Mopho x4 tradition - could fit this description.

For a player who's primary instrument isn't keyboard or synth but simply wants a smaller poly synth to the side of them to play a few chords with while they focus on their main instrument like bass or guitar.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on August 10, 2020, 01:07:14 PM
It's Dave's statement that this instrument is for a 'different type of musician' that's so cryptic.  I don't see how a smaller synthesizer - say, half a Rev2 in the Mopho x4 tradition - could fit this description.

For a player who's primary instrument isn't keyboard or synth but simply wants a smaller poly synth to the side of them to play a few chords with while they focus on their main instrument like bass or guitar.

Oh, I'm all for it!  I'd love to have the Rev2 version of a Mopho x4 or Mopho SE.  I could make it the basis for a monophonic system.  I just don't think such an instrument would fit the 'instrument for a different type of musician' description. 

I won't even speculate.  Dave's just too unpredictable.  Whatever he makes, that I'm sure we'll love.  But I don't think you can follow any sort of logic in foreseeing it. 
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on August 10, 2020, 03:11:07 PM
It's Dave's statement that this instrument is for a 'different type of musician' that's so cryptic.  I don't see how a smaller synthesizer - say, half a Rev2 in the Mopho x4 tradition - could fit this description.

One thing we've learned over the years: speculation of such things is fun but pointless.  And secondly, Dave definitely does the least expected things.

I believe the only thing I've seen directly from Dave is the mention in his 70th birthday video, if anyone has any other mentions, I'd be interested in it -- especially the one where he mentioned a different type of musician.  I did see a video (I believe it was from Andy talking about product design) where he alluded to certain design decisions of the Pro 3 foreshadowing where future products were going - my guess would be he's referring to the sequencer and the interaction with the screen.

I also think you're right that speculation is somewhat pointless, but definitely fun.  Sometimes the anticipation is as much fun as the reveal.  We could potentially theorize about hidden meanings in those ominous bottles of 1921 blanco :)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on August 10, 2020, 05:24:38 PM
It's Dave's statement that this instrument is for a 'different type of musician' that's so cryptic.  I don't see how a smaller synthesizer - say, half a Rev2 in the Mopho x4 tradition - could fit this description.

For a player who's primary instrument isn't keyboard or synth but simply wants a smaller poly synth to the side of them to play a few chords with while they focus on their main instrument like bass or guitar.

Oh, I'm all for it!  I'd love to have the Rev2 version of a Mopho x4 or Mopho SE.  I could make it the basis for a monophonic system.  I just don't think such an instrument would fit the 'instrument for a different type of musician' description. 

I won't even speculate.  Dave's just too unpredictable.  Whatever he makes, that I'm sure we'll love.  But I don't think you can follow any sort of logic in foreseeing it.

I just can’t see Dave doing a stand-alone sequencer or something radical like a Simmons style drum synth or some odd guitar synth processor. Moog tried to go that territory and it completely backfired.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on August 10, 2020, 06:42:08 PM
I believe the only thing I've seen directly from Dave is the mention in his 70th birthday video, if anyone has any other mentions, I'd be interested in it -- especially the one where he mentioned a different type of musician.

Hmmm.  The source of that statement is given somewhere on this forum, but I'm not sure where.  I remember it as being an older statement made by Dave himself.  Anyone remember? 

Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: MPM on August 10, 2020, 09:13:08 PM
It's Dave's statement that this instrument is for a 'different type of musician' that's so cryptic.

So it is a drum machine  :(
I mean, it's either that or a Tuba?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on August 11, 2020, 12:09:52 AM
It's Dave's statement that this instrument is for a 'different type of musician' that's so cryptic.

So it is a drum machine  :(
I mean, it's either that or a Tuba?

Could be....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwKX26LGnsk

or

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceXOSSlf6XY
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on August 11, 2020, 04:22:45 AM
Well, 1/3 of August is already gone, so er.... Dave?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: jg666 on August 11, 2020, 05:12:51 AM
It might even be something based on a keyboard like the Seaboard ones, or even something like the stylophone I had back in the 1970s  ;D

Did anyone else have one of these back in the early 70s, or am I the only old person here ;)

Edit - I wish I still had that stylophone, it might be collectable these days!
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on August 11, 2020, 08:09:33 AM
It might even be something based on a keyboard like the Seaboard ones, or even something like the stylophone I had back in the 1970s  ;D

Did anyone else have one of these back in the early 70s, or am I the only old person here ;)

Edit - I wish I still had that stylophone, it might be collectable these days!

They still make them.

https://dubreq.com/
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on August 11, 2020, 09:12:24 AM
It's Dave's statement that this instrument is for a 'different type of musician' that's so cryptic.

So it is a drum machine  :(
I mean, it's either that or a Tuba?

I say it's a digital-analog hybrid tuba with a sequencer.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on August 11, 2020, 09:14:54 AM
It might even be something based on a keyboard like the Seaboard ones, or even something like the stylophone I had back in the 1970s  ;D

Did anyone else have one of these back in the early 70s, or am I the only old person here ;)

Edit - I wish I still had that stylophone, it might be collectable these days!

Even better:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1446529-REG/stylophone_stylophone_gen_x_1_gen_x_1_portable_synth.html/?msclkid=9d921b5403391fa314494466c0f523ff
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: jg666 on August 11, 2020, 11:23:26 PM
Blimey, I would have driven my parents insane with that version of the stylophone if it were availble all those years ago  ;D

I do remember that I exposed part of the wire half way along to the stylus so that I could press that part down on a lower key and then use the stylus higher up the 'keyboard'. This allowed me to play notes in quick succession without having to slide :)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: CoffeePockets on August 12, 2020, 12:51:23 AM

"I believe the only thing I've seen directly from Dave is the mention in his 70th birthday video, if anyone has any other mentions, I'd be interested in it"


There was a short mention in his entry in the Korg Germany recipe book posted to their site, that's the only place I've seen mention of this mystery synth other than the birthday video.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on August 12, 2020, 06:58:01 PM

"I believe the only thing I've seen directly from Dave is the mention in his 70th birthday video, if anyone has any other mentions, I'd be interested in it"


There was a short mention in his entry in the Korg Germany recipe book posted to their site, that's the only place I've seen mention of this mystery synth other than the birthday video.

Snooping around for trademark clues, I found that Tom Oberheim has a March 31, 2020 trademark filing for "OB-Xa":  http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4810:4q40ra.8.35  , which could indicate another collaborative deal (although Pro 3 was registered under Sequential LLC with Dave as owner, so who knows).

I did also find a June 2020 article where Dave alludes to more than one product coming :

"...On the bright side, we’re as busy as ever designing new products, and we’ll be telling you about some of these in the next couple of months. So stay tuned!”

https://www.musictech.net/news/dave-smith-instruments-tempest-retires/




Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: CoffeePockets on August 12, 2020, 07:17:08 PM
Well now I'm very excited about the prospect of a new OB-Xa in some form in addition to whatever else may be in development
*unless of course this is just legal maneuvering to block Behringer or related to the Arturia emulation
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on August 13, 2020, 04:14:16 AM
Well now I'm very excited about the prospect of a new OB-Xa in some form in addition to whatever else may be in development
*unless of course this is just legal maneuvering to block Behringer or related to the Arturia emulation

The trademark simply to protect the name was what came to mind for me, mostly because the date of registration seemed to coincide with the time frame that both Arturia and Synapse announced their plugins were forthcoming....also because the OB-6 is registered to Sequential LLC.   I would also be surprised if a new synth is ever introduced as reissue of the OB-Xa (or of the Prophet-5 for that matter), simply because it seems unlikely all of the original electronics components are even available in identical form 40 years later, and all the bad press that would result from all the Youtube comparison videos comparing a new analog synth to one that is 40 years old would be the stuff headaches are made of.  But then again nothing stopping a product from being called OB-Xa Rev 2?

As much as I love the sound of the OB-Xa, I feel the OB-6 meets my needs with regard to that Oberheim sound, and any new Obies would need to do something really different (and be much more than an OB-Xa reissue) to get my attention.  I think I'd rather see a successor to the Prophet 12, a Prophet VS, or something else digital with analog filters.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on August 13, 2020, 08:15:13 AM
To be honest the Prophet REV 2 is actually closer to the OBXa than the OB-6.

"The OB-X was very similar to the OB-Xa except that its voices could not be split or layered and, more significantly, the OB-X had a lowpass-only discrete SEM 12dB/oct state variable filter, which had a great and classic Oberheim sound. The OB-Xa changed that in an attempt to economize manufacturing and increase stability by switching to CEM3320 Curtis chips for its filters. The Xa offered two switchable filter modes: 12 dB/oct (2-pole) or 24 dB/oct (4-pole). This hardware change resulted in a more aggressive sound, not quite as creamy as the OBX original, but what still became a "bread and butter" sound of the Oberheim line."

Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on August 13, 2020, 10:01:37 AM
Well now I'm very excited about the prospect of a new OB-Xa in some form in addition to whatever else may be in development
*unless of course this is just legal maneuvering to block Behringer or related to the Arturia emulation

The trademark simply to protect the name was what came to mind for me, mostly because the date of registration seemed to coincide with the time frame that both Arturia and Synapse announced their plugins were forthcoming....also because the OB-6 is registered to Sequential LLC.   I would also be surprised if a new synth is ever introduced as reissue of the OB-Xa (or of the Prophet-5 for that matter), simply because it seems unlikely all of the original electronics components are even available in identical form 40 years later, and all the bad press that would result from all the Youtube comparison videos comparing a new analog synth to one that is 40 years old would be the stuff headaches are made of.  But then again nothing stopping a product from being called OB-Xa Rev 2?

As much as I love the sound of the OB-Xa, I feel the OB-6 meets my needs with regard to that Oberheim sound, and any new Obies would need to do something really different (and be much more than an OB-Xa reissue) to get my attention.  I think I'd rather see a successor to the Prophet 12, a Prophet VS, or something else digital with analog filters.

I would think the Behringer issue would be front and center in seeking to register the name.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on August 13, 2020, 11:19:36 AM
Well now I'm very excited about the prospect of a new OB-Xa in some form in addition to whatever else may be in development
*unless of course this is just legal maneuvering to block Behringer or related to the Arturia emulation

The trademark simply to protect the name was what came to mind for me, mostly because the date of registration seemed to coincide with the time frame that both Arturia and Synapse announced their plugins were forthcoming....also because the OB-6 is registered to Sequential LLC.   I would also be surprised if a new synth is ever introduced as reissue of the OB-Xa (or of the Prophet-5 for that matter), simply because it seems unlikely all of the original electronics components are even available in identical form 40 years later, and all the bad press that would result from all the Youtube comparison videos comparing a new analog synth to one that is 40 years old would be the stuff headaches are made of.  But then again nothing stopping a product from being called OB-Xa Rev 2?

As much as I love the sound of the OB-Xa, I feel the OB-6 meets my needs with regard to that Oberheim sound, and any new Obies would need to do something really different (and be much more than an OB-Xa reissue) to get my attention.  I think I'd rather see a successor to the Prophet 12, a Prophet VS, or something else digital with analog filters.

I would think the Behringer issue would be front and center in seeking to register the name.

In terms of a competitive product, I agree.  Behringer has said their product will be called UB-Xa though since early 2019 (I believe), so I would think if Tom (or Sequential) wanted to go on the legal defensive there, it would have to be on some other aspect of the patent design rather than trademark name, especially given the timing of Tom's filing (March 2020).

If I were Tom and I saw such a recent resurgence in interest in vintage Oberheim synths (perhaps due to the increasingly popular genres like synthwave and the retro 80's sound), I would probably trademark a trophy name like that myself, especially since that product line was probably his most notable career achievement to date.   It could be just that he doesn't want it to show up on the label of every crappy soft synth that gets tossed out there.  Then again, one of the downsides to owning a trademark is that it is worthless unless you demonstrate that you tried to defend it, so it could be he wants Arturia to rename theirs?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on August 13, 2020, 02:35:25 PM
I hate to say it but I doubt we will see another synthesizer with the Oberheim name on it. Unless Tom is going to significantly step up his production and keep his supply consistent than I think the name is going to collect dust or it might just start to appear on newly manufactured OB-6s going forward.

I want so badly to believe Tom will start to make new Two Voice Pros or a new Four Voice or finally venture into his promised Eurorack stuff but I think the reality is the track record is sadly not doing this belief any favors.   
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: wbajzek on August 14, 2020, 09:55:41 AM
I'm hoping that, in honor of his birthday, Dave will be delivering a Prophet 70

Also I hope no one else has made this joke, because I don't have time to read through 66 pages of comments :)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Makes_Synth_To_Me on August 19, 2020, 11:01:10 AM
It'd be nice to get at least an update on a timeframe at least. Wink wink...
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Aurora87 on August 21, 2020, 07:14:57 AM
Dave: “New synth shipping in August!”

2020: “Hold my beer”
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on August 21, 2020, 02:30:50 PM
Dave: “New synth shipping in August!”

2020: “Hold my beer”

I don't believe he said shipping in August, I believe he said it will hopefully be announced in August.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: jg666 on August 21, 2020, 02:38:54 PM
Dave: “New synth shipping in August!”

2020: “Hold my beer”

I don't believe he said shipping in August, I believe he said it will hopefully be announced in August.

Yes I think that’s what I remember him saying :)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on August 21, 2020, 02:43:43 PM
Dave: “New synth shipping in August!”

2020: “Hold my beer”

I don't believe he said shipping in August, I believe he said it will hopefully be announced in August.

Yes I think that’s what I remember him saying :)

But he did follow up with a tequila shot immediately afterward, I'm not sure if this was his way of telling us "hey, btw take that August ship date with a grain of salt and a shot of blanco!"  :)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: jg666 on August 22, 2020, 01:57:24 AM
I'm fully expecting lots of new products to be delayed somewhat due to the covid crisis so I wouldn't be over concerned if we didn't hear anything this month or next :)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: CoffeePockets on August 26, 2020, 02:42:04 AM
Still over here pulling for my Pro 3 module. After all, the design of the SE would seem to lend itself perfectly to simply divorcing the keys from the hinged control panel, a little bit of internal layout modification to move the power supply and whatever else lives in the lower case and bingo-bango I get my Pro 3 without having to find room for YET ANOTHER set of keys!
These fingers are staying crossed.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on August 26, 2020, 10:30:52 AM
Still over here pulling for my Pro 3 module. After all, the design of the SE would seem to lend itself perfectly to simply divorcing the keys from the hinged control panel, a little bit of internal layout modification to move the power supply and whatever else lives in the lower case and bingo-bango I get my Pro 3 without having to find room for YET ANOTHER set of keys!
These fingers are staying crossed.

I totally agree.  A Pro 3 Module would be most desirable.  The musical power of that instrument could be immensely stronger if attached to a five-octave keyboard.  If it had been given one even of four octaves, I would make it my long sought-after monophonic synthesizer.  Three octaves is just too short for my style of music.  But a module could solve this. 
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on August 26, 2020, 01:11:56 PM
Still over here pulling for my Pro 3 module. After all, the design of the SE would seem to lend itself perfectly to simply divorcing the keys from the hinged control panel, a little bit of internal layout modification to move the power supply and whatever else lives in the lower case and bingo-bango I get my Pro 3 without having to find room for YET ANOTHER set of keys!
These fingers are staying crossed.

I totally agree.  A Pro 3 Module would be most desirable.  The musical power of that instrument could be immensely stronger if attached to a five-octave keyboard.  If it had been given one even of four octaves, I would make it my long sought-after monophonic synthesizer.  Three octaves is just too short for my style of music.  But a module could solve this.

I'd also welcome a Pro3 module if it came in at around $800.  Maybe even $1k if controls adjustable like the SE version.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: CoffeePockets on August 27, 2020, 01:18:53 AM
Still over here pulling for my Pro 3 module. After all, the design of the SE would seem to lend itself perfectly to simply divorcing the keys from the hinged control panel, a little bit of internal layout modification to move the power supply and whatever else lives in the lower case and bingo-bango I get my Pro 3 without having to find room for YET ANOTHER set of keys!
These fingers are staying crossed.

I totally agree.  A Pro 3 Module would be most desirable.  The musical power of that instrument could be immensely stronger if attached to a five-octave keyboard.  If it had been given one even of four octaves, I would make it my long sought-after monophonic synthesizer.  Three octaves is just too short for my style of music.  But a module could solve this.

I'd also welcome a Pro3 module if it came in at around $800.  Maybe even $1k if controls adjustable like the SE version.

The price difference between the modules that have already been released and their full-size versions would lead me to assume that they could hit sub $1000 price point easily, your $800 might not be too far off!
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: jok3r on August 27, 2020, 01:32:09 AM
The more Pro3 videos I watch, the more I hope the next synth will be a Poly Pro3... or better not, because I don't know if I can wait any longer, before I buy a mono one. If a poly came after my purchase, it would really really upset me.

I don't really need a new poly, but if I have the choice between a mono and a poly with similar architecture, I would always choose the poly for flexibility.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on August 27, 2020, 10:49:27 AM
The price difference between the modules that have already been released and their full-size versions would lead me to assume that they could hit sub $1000 price point easily, your $800 might not be too far off!

With a Rev2 8 voice module going for $1,300, I think it would definitely need to be in that price range to be a sales success, especially with MinilogueXD module going for $550 -- it's not a direct competitor being a 4 voice poly instead of a mono, but 4 voices in unison mode makes a pretty mean monosynth.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on August 27, 2020, 01:12:52 PM
The more Pro3 videos I watch, the more I hope the next synth will be a Poly Pro3... or better not, because I don't know if I can wait any longer, before I buy a mono one. If a poly came after my purchase, it would really really upset me.

I don't really need a new poly, but if I have the choice between a mono and a poly with similar architecture, I would always choose the poly for flexibility.

If a Polyphonic version of the Pro 3 architecture came out I’d want two VCOs and two Wavetable oscillators. Just having one Wavetable oscillator on a poly synth would feel a bit lacking.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Quatschmacher on August 27, 2020, 01:19:12 PM
It seems to work pretty well on the Korg Prologue though.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on August 27, 2020, 02:01:14 PM
It seems to work pretty well on the Korg Prologue though.

Nah, you can’t do vector synthesis properly with one wavetable. You have a wider tonal palette with two.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on August 27, 2020, 02:42:26 PM
Also....as random as this sounds....I really hope the synth is a different color or at least visually different enough from the synths on their current catalog. I really like the look of that white Prophet 12 but perhaps with blue LEDs. I dunno, just something visually different to make it stand out.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on August 27, 2020, 03:39:29 PM
Also....as random as this sounds....I really hope the synth is a different color or at least visually different enough from the synths on their current catalog. I really like the look of that white Prophet 12 but perhaps with blue LEDs. I dunno, just something visually different to make it stand out.

Only 20 mins ago I was looking at the P6, OB6 and Rev2 side-by-side, and noticing the small details such as thinner wood side panels on the OB-6, same width on the two Prophet brothers...  Different wood grain on each, fasteners in different locations, etc... even texture of metal surface feels different.  Very subtle differences mostly, and while the OB6 blends in with its siblings, and interacting with it feels familiar in just the right amounts, everything from its labeling to its knob style sort of screams out "hey I'm a brother from another mother!"... or maybe another father in this case :).

So I guess I'm digging the subtle product differentiation Dave has going right now.  Maybe I'm just old school in that regard, like Dave himself?   

Then again, if a successor to the Poly Evolver were to emerge, homage to the funky coloring wouldn't be too inappropriate.  Just no "mopho yellow" please (no offense to Mopho owners of course :)..
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on August 27, 2020, 03:45:56 PM
Then again, if a successor to the Poly Evolver were to emerge, homage to the funky coloring wouldn't be too inappropriate.

Let's refresh our memory of this magnificent sounding and looking instrument. 

Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on August 27, 2020, 06:00:16 PM
Also....as random as this sounds....I really hope the synth is a different color or at least visually different enough from the synths on their current catalog. I really like the look of that white Prophet 12 but perhaps with blue LEDs. I dunno, just something visually different to make it stand out.

Only 20 mins ago I was looking at the P6, OB6 and Rev2 side-by-side, and noticing the small details such as thinner wood side panels on the OB-6, same width on the two Prophet brothers...  Different wood grain on each, fasteners in different locations, etc... even texture of metal surface feels different.  Very subtle differences mostly, and while the OB6 blends in with its siblings, and interacting with it feels familiar in just the right amounts, everything from its labeling to its knob style sort of screams out "hey I'm a brother from another mother!"... or maybe another father in this case :).

So I guess I'm digging the subtle product differentiation Dave has going right now.  Maybe I'm just old school in that regard, like Dave himself?   

Then again, if a successor to the Poly Evolver were to emerge, homage to the funky coloring wouldn't be too inappropriate.  Just no "mopho yellow" please (no offense to Mopho owners of course :)..

Oh yeah, I’m not saying the designs are the exact same but just little things...like different color LEDs or something.

I still say a Sequential synth in white with Blue leds And Wavetable based or an FM based synth and green leds or something that really makes it stand out visually. Not just small details. Even with the UDO Super 6 everyone I’ve spoken with said that they love the blue version because of how different it looks.

I think looking at the current synth market Sequential doing a blue synth or a white synth would be quite eye catching and really help it stand out from the run of the mill black and white color pallet most synths have these days. Look at how eye popping the new Moog Grandmother And Matriarch are.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on August 27, 2020, 07:27:57 PM
Also....as random as this sounds....I really hope the synth is a different color or at least visually different enough from the synths on their current catalog. I really like the look of that white Prophet 12 but perhaps with blue LEDs. I dunno, just something visually different to make it stand out.

Only 20 mins ago I was looking at the P6, OB6 and Rev2 side-by-side, and noticing the small details such as thinner wood side panels on the OB-6, same width on the two Prophet brothers...  Different wood grain on each, fasteners in different locations, etc... even texture of metal surface feels different.  Very subtle differences mostly, and while the OB6 blends in with its siblings, and interacting with it feels familiar in just the right amounts, everything from its labeling to its knob style sort of screams out "hey I'm a brother from another mother!"... or maybe another father in this case :) .

So I guess I'm digging the subtle product differentiation Dave has going right now.  Maybe I'm just old school in that regard, like Dave himself?   

Then again, if a successor to the Poly Evolver were to emerge, homage to the funky coloring wouldn't be too inappropriate.  Just no "mopho yellow" please (no offense to Mopho owners of course :) ..

Oh yeah, I’m not saying the designs are the exact same but just little things...like different color LEDs or something.

I still say a Sequential synth in white with Blue leds And Wavetable based or an FM based synth and green leds or something that really makes it stand out visually. Not just small details. Even with the UDO Super 6 everyone I’ve spoken with said that they love the blue version because of how different it looks.

I think looking at the current synth market Sequential doing a blue synth or a white synth would be quite eye catching and really help it stand out from the run of the mill black and white color pallet most synths have these days. Look at how eye popping the new Moog Grandmother And Matriarch are.


Looking at my current synth line up, I’m not sure what Dave could make that I need... but I’m sure it will be something.


I’d like to see something like an expansion of the Prophet 6... all analogue, 12 voice, bi or tri-timbral — with the ability for “inter-timbral” modulations... i.e. Layer A’s LFO could modulate destinations on both Layer A and Layer B.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on August 27, 2020, 07:31:05 PM
Also....as random as this sounds....I really hope the synth is a different color or at least visually different enough from the synths on their current catalog. I really like the look of that white Prophet 12 but perhaps with blue LEDs. I dunno, just something visually different to make it stand out.

Only 20 mins ago I was looking at the P6, OB6 and Rev2 side-by-side, and noticing the small details such as thinner wood side panels on the OB-6, same width on the two Prophet brothers...  Different wood grain on each, fasteners in different locations, etc... even texture of metal surface feels different.  Very subtle differences mostly, and while the OB6 blends in with its siblings, and interacting with it feels familiar in just the right amounts, everything from its labeling to its knob style sort of screams out "hey I'm a brother from another mother!"... or maybe another father in this case :) .

So I guess I'm digging the subtle product differentiation Dave has going right now.  Maybe I'm just old school in that regard, like Dave himself?   

Then again, if a successor to the Poly Evolver were to emerge, homage to the funky coloring wouldn't be too inappropriate.  Just no "mopho yellow" please (no offense to Mopho owners of course :) ..

Oh yeah, I’m not saying the designs are the exact same but just little things...like different color LEDs or something.

I still say a Sequential synth in white with Blue leds And Wavetable based or an FM based synth and green leds or something that really makes it stand out visually. Not just small details. Even with the UDO Super 6 everyone I’ve spoken with said that they love the blue version because of how different it looks.

I think looking at the current synth market Sequential doing a blue synth or a white synth would be quite eye catching and really help it stand out from the run of the mill black and white color pallet most synths have these days. Look at how eye popping the new Moog Grandmother And Matriarch are.


Looking at my current synth line up, I’m not sure what Dave could make that I need... but I’m sure it will be something.


I’d like to see something like an expansion of the Prophet 6... all analogue, 12 voice, bi or tri-timbral — with the ability for “inter-timbral” modulations... i.e. Layer A’s LFO could modulate destinations on both Layer A and Layer B.

Sequential Waves-A Wavetable based synth with analog filters.
Prophet 20-A ten voice VCO, ten voice wavetable hybrid synth.
Prophet FM-A hands on 8 operator FM synth with analog filters.

or

A Sequential standalone multitrack sequencer.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: BobTheDog on August 28, 2020, 12:20:51 PM
Then again, if a successor to the Poly Evolver were to emerge, homage to the funky coloring wouldn't be too inappropriate.

Let's refresh our memory of this magnificent sounding and looking instrument.

A new version with 16 voices, better buttons, better display. Same blue :)

That would do me.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: narkosys on August 28, 2020, 12:48:06 PM
Then again, if a successor to the Poly Evolver were to emerge, homage to the funky coloring wouldn't be too inappropriate.

Let's refresh our memory of this magnificent sounding and looking instrument.

A new version with 16 voices, better buttons, better display. Same blue :)

That would do me.

wouldn't a 16 voice Poly Evolver be much the same as the Rev2?  I pretty much have zero experience with the evolver other than drooling over a used one that was at my local music shop  last year.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: narkosys on August 28, 2020, 12:53:01 PM
A thought came to me this morning. 

How about a Prophet XXL?  With an 88 key fully weighted key bed?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on August 28, 2020, 01:10:19 PM
A thought came to me this morning. 

How about a Prophet XXL?  With an 88 key fully weighted key bed?

Or Prophet XS

A desktop module
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on August 28, 2020, 01:10:51 PM
A thought came to me this morning. 

How about a Prophet XXL?  With an 88 key fully weighted key bed?


It would need at least double the polyphony
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on August 28, 2020, 01:12:25 PM
Then again, if a successor to the Poly Evolver were to emerge, homage to the funky coloring wouldn't be too inappropriate.

Let's refresh our memory of this magnificent sounding and looking instrument.

A new version with 16 voices, better buttons, better display. Same blue :)

That would do me.

wouldn't a 16 voice Poly Evolver be much the same as the Rev2?  I pretty much have zero experience with the evolver other than drooling over a used one that was at my local music shop  last year.

No. Totally different architecture.

"Each voice is a complete Evolver with four oscillators per voice: two analog and two digital - it's a true analog/digital hybrid synth. The analog oscillators feature multiple classic waveforms plus pulse-width modulation and hard sync, and they sound really nice and big. The digital oscillators feature FM synthesis, Ring Modulation and 96 Prophet VS wavetables plus 32 user wavetables (loaded via MIDI only)."
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on August 28, 2020, 03:09:04 PM
Or Prophet XS

A desktop module

This would interest me greatly - but the module needs to do everything the keyboard version does without menu diving.  I was excited to see the Iridium announced, only to find out later they replaced the analog filter with a digital one.  I'm sure it sounds great but I was interested in a module-form Quantum, not a watered-down Quantum.

What I'm really pining for is something like a Prophet 12 successor in module form (but with plenty of knobs and hopefully a Pro-3-like sequencer).  Given that the Prophet 12 is discontinued, I think it's actually a fairly realistic wish list item.  I love my P6 and Rev2 and do not feel they need a successor.  One can get more polyphony from the P6 by adding a desktop version to the keyboard or vice versa.

I've actually considered a Waldorf Kyra for my digital needs; my analog situation is very well covered.

Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on August 28, 2020, 04:44:38 PM
I wonder...with Polyphonic aftertouch becoming prevalent on keyboards (HydraSynth, Osmose) it would be absolutely wild if Sequential partnered up with Expressive E and offer a Polyphonic keyboard with a VCO based synth. Almost a Prophet T8 successor.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: MPM on August 28, 2020, 06:13:49 PM
September???
What is "a different kind of musician" anyway?
Obviously the biggest market now are the DAW crowd, and selling software is a hell of a lot easier than shipping hardware. The prophet would be huge compared to their existing range. Even if it is a modeling synth in a tiny DSP filled box, I'd like to have one just to see their take on it, and it'd probably have infinite mod slots too, given how they're going now. Imagine Sequential, unshackled from VCOs DCOs VCthis&that.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on August 28, 2020, 08:10:35 PM
Would absolutely love a Sequential stand-alone sequencer. 10 tracks. 32 note polyphony per track. Midi. Cv. Song mode. Why not?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: blewis on August 29, 2020, 07:34:27 AM
My guess has started to lean towards a stand-alone sequencer as well based on the Pro-3.

Fits the “different kind of musician” statement. The more simple design as it is based on work they’re currently fresh on and there would be no sound engine.

For a while I was stuck on the “my gift to you” meaning Dave would finally do a reissue - my desire was a Poly Evolver Rev2 - but I’ve decided that was an unintentional decoy and just a statement for his birthday.

This guess also jives with some hinted at sequencer work Pym has done on the Pro-3.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Quatschmacher on August 29, 2020, 08:14:34 AM
My guess has started to lean towards a stand-alone sequencer as well based on the Pro-3.

Fits the “different kind of musician” statement. The more simple design as it is based on work they’re currently fresh on and there would be no sound engine.

For a while I was stuck on the “my gift to you” meaning Dave would finally do a reissue - my desire was a Poly Evolver Rev2 - but I’ve decided that was an unintentional decoy and just a statement for his birthday.

This guess also jives with some hinted at sequencer work Pym has done on the Pro-3.

A different “kind of musician” could mean lots of things. Could mean someone who doesn’t use/need the deep sequencing and modulation abilities of the pro 3 and who wants to simply play the keyboard like a pianist, with polyphony as opposed to monophony. A synth not having the complex sequencer would also be “easier to design”. Pym also mentioned pianists in his recent posts. I’m biased though as I really want to get a five-octave vco poly. I’m having to stop myself from going out and buying a Summit in the hope that the next Sequential product will be what I’m after. 
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on August 29, 2020, 08:46:36 AM
My guess has started to lean towards a stand-alone sequencer as well based on the Pro-3.

Fits the “different kind of musician” statement. The more simple design as it is based on work they’re currently fresh on and there would be no sound engine.

For a while I was stuck on the “my gift to you” meaning Dave would finally do a reissue - my desire was a Poly Evolver Rev2 - but I’ve decided that was an unintentional decoy and just a statement for his birthday.

This guess also jives with some hinted at sequencer work Pym has done on the Pro-3.

"My gift to you."

A dual keyboard Prophet 10 successor?  LOL
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on August 29, 2020, 08:48:27 AM
My guess has started to lean towards a stand-alone sequencer as well based on the Pro-3.

Fits the “different kind of musician” statement. The more simple design as it is based on work they’re currently fresh on and there would be no sound engine.

For a while I was stuck on the “my gift to you” meaning Dave would finally do a reissue - my desire was a Poly Evolver Rev2 - but I’ve decided that was an unintentional decoy and just a statement for his birthday.

This guess also jives with some hinted at sequencer work Pym has done on the Pro-3.

A different “kind of musician” could mean lots of things. Could mean someone who doesn’t use/need the deep sequencing and modulation abilities of the pro 3 and who wants to simply play the keyboard like a pianist, with polyphony as opposed to monophony. A synth not having the complex sequencer would also be “easier to design”. Pym also mentioned pianists in his recent posts. I’m biased though as I really want to get a five-octave vco poly. I’m having to stop myself from going out and buying a Summit in the hope that the next Sequential product will be what I’m after.

That's why I'm thinking it might be a polyphonic aftertouch VCO based synth. The actual architecture of the synthesis engine wouldn't be much different compared to that of a Prophet 6...perhaps with splits and layers but with a polyphonic aftertouch keybed attached to it, it would certainly turn a lot of heads.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on August 29, 2020, 08:49:37 AM
My guess has started to lean towards a stand-alone sequencer as well based on the Pro-3.

Fits the “different kind of musician” statement. The more simple design as it is based on work they’re currently fresh on and there would be no sound engine.

For a while I was stuck on the “my gift to you” meaning Dave would finally do a reissue - my desire was a Poly Evolver Rev2 - but I’ve decided that was an unintentional decoy and just a statement for his birthday.

This guess also jives with some hinted at sequencer work Pym has done on the Pro-3.

Preferably with polyphonic tracks rather than monophonic tracks hopefully but I really do hope Sequential do a standalone sequencer. Sort of a successor to their old Programmers or even their Studio 440 (which was a drum machine/multitrack sequencer)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on August 29, 2020, 03:09:28 PM
My guess has started to lean towards a stand-alone sequencer as well based on the Pro-3.

Fits the “different kind of musician” statement. The more simple design as it is based on work they’re currently fresh on and there would be no sound engine.

For a while I was stuck on the “my gift to you” meaning Dave would finally do a reissue - my desire was a Poly Evolver Rev2 - but I’ve decided that was an unintentional decoy and just a statement for his birthday.

This guess also jives with some hinted at sequencer work Pym has done on the Pro-3.

"My gift to you."

A dual keyboard Prophet 10 successor?  LOL

I was just about to say that.  No, that couldn't happen, because it would mean that this was paradise.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on August 29, 2020, 04:28:57 PM
My guess has started to lean towards a stand-alone sequencer as well based on the Pro-3.

Fits the “different kind of musician” statement. The more simple design as it is based on work they’re currently fresh on and there would be no sound engine.

For a while I was stuck on the “my gift to you” meaning Dave would finally do a reissue - my desire was a Poly Evolver Rev2 - but I’ve decided that was an unintentional decoy and just a statement for his birthday.

This guess also jives with some hinted at sequencer work Pym has done on the Pro-3.

"My gift to you."

A dual keyboard Prophet 10 successor?  LOL

I was just about to say that.  No, that couldn't happen, because it would mean that this was paradise.

I mean it’s something that is lacking in the Sequential catalog. A monster VCO synth. Two Prophet 6 engines together. Side by side with an optional lower keybed and both keybed have Polyphonic aftertouch. Maybe even an MPE ribbon controller inspired by Roger Linn’s Linnstrument. That certainly would turn heads and likely even make Moog One owners green with envy.

Plus the optional lower tier (sold separately) also allows Sequential to provide a Polyphonic aftertouch controller as well...so they can tap into that market if they want to.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: jok3r on August 29, 2020, 04:46:37 PM
What if they throw all of your ideas in one machine and build the long awaited Kronos killer workstation with completely analog synth engines (not only the filter like the Fantom) and the technique of the Prophet X for sampling and digital stuff? The sequencer of the Pro 3?

I would love such a concept... even if this would make half of my live setup obsolete.

If I think what I really need of a new workstation I come to only a few things:

1. I need at least 16 parts/voices/patches on different midi channels in a combi/setup/performance/song... how ever you call these things. I think you know what I want to say...

2. I want to assing every part a specific type like analog synth, sample (for natural strings, brass, etc. ... ), or digital synth sounds like fm stuff, etc. ...

3. A high polyphony in the digital part (at least 256 voices) because I layer a lot

4. A medium count of analog voices like 32 to be able to (for examples) layer a pad with a bell-like sound and still play a lead sound over this - available voices dynamically shared over all analog patches playing at the moment.

5. Powerfull midi setup, for doing internal midi routing "per Combi/Setup/Performance/Song"... to work with external gear. And do such things, like route for only one specific song an external keyboard A to an external sound engine B, both connected per Midi to the workstation. In other words: make it have an internal midi router like an iConnectivity mio10 or something and store the setup PER COMBI! This is (in my opionion) what all workstations of today are lacking. The Kronos is great for controlling other gear... and great for being controlled by other gear. But it lacks the feature of routing connected gear among themselves. That would simplify my setup a lot. Dave invented this midi stuff... if any corporation can do this, then it has to be Sequential.

6. Powerful sequencer, for a) backing tracks and b) step-sequencer-like stuff like drum patterns and repeating melodies, etc. ... an arpeggiator would be nice, too.

7. A powerful effects engine with at least 2 effects per part in a combi (so it should be 32 over all), 4 master effects (routable per send and return) and 2 total effects (fixed kind of master effect).

8. At least 3 pairs of balanced stereo outputs, 2 pairs of stereo inputs, and a lot of internal routing possibilities like in a digital mixing console (Kronos does this pretty well, with effects busses and recording busses, etc. ).

9. A lot of analog controls and additionally a really big responsive touchscreen like an iPad Pro.

10. A Fatar keybed like the Moog One's for a 61 key version. And an 88 key version with weighted wooden keys for people who need a stage piano.

11. Some performance helpers, like scene buttons... sounds not cutting of, when switching to the next combi... etc. ...

12. Everything that was achieved in the workstation area until today... I don't want to go back. I can't name everything out of my head, but you know what I mean.

I don't know, if I forgot something important, but that already seems to be a lot... I have no clue how much such a thing would cost, but I would be willing to pay it if it is, what I had in my head, at the moment of writing. Could also be it's too late at night in Europe now and 5-6 german "Keller" beer made me talk nonesense... ;-)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on August 29, 2020, 06:46:45 PM
What if they throw all of your ideas in one machine and build the long awaited Kronos killer workstation with completely analog synth engines (not only the filter like the Fantom) and the technique of the Prophet X for sampling and digital stuff? The sequencer of the Pro 3?

I would love such a concept... even if this would make half of my live setup obsolete.

If I think what I really need of a new workstation I come to only a few things:

1. I need at least 16 parts/voices/patches on different midi channels in a combi/setup/performance/song... how ever you call these things. I think you know what I want to say...

2. I want to assing every part a specific type like analog synth, sample (for natural strings, brass, etc. ... ), or digital synth sounds like fm stuff, etc. ...

3. A high polyphony in the digital part (at least 256 voices) because I layer a lot

4. A medium count of analog voices like 32 to be able to (for examples) layer a pad with a bell-like sound and still play a lead sound over this - available voices dynamically shared over all analog patches playing at the moment.

5. Powerfull midi setup, for doing internal midi routing "per Combi/Setup/Performance/Song"... to work with external gear. And do such things, like route for only one specific song an external keyboard A to an external sound engine B, both connected per Midi to the workstation. In other words: make it have an internal midi router like an iConnectivity mio10 or something and store the setup PER COMBI! This is (in my opionion) what all workstations of today are lacking. The Kronos is great for controlling other gear... and great for being controlled by other gear. But it lacks the feature of routing connected gear among themselves. That would simplify my setup a lot. Dave invented this midi stuff... if any corporation can do this, then it has to be Sequential.

6. Powerful sequencer, for a) backing tracks and b) step-sequencer-like stuff like drum patterns and repeating melodies, etc. ... an arpeggiator would be nice, too.

7. A powerful effects engine with at least 2 effects per part in a combi (so it should be 32 over all), 4 master effects (routable per send and return) and 2 total effects (fixed kind of master effect).

8. At least 3 pairs of balanced stereo outputs, 2 pairs of stereo inputs, and a lot of internal routing possibilities like in a digital mixing console (Kronos does this pretty well, with effects busses and recording busses, etc. ).

9. A lot of analog controls and additionally a really big responsive touchscreen like an iPad Pro.

10. A Fatar keybed like the Moog One's for a 61 key version. And an 88 key version with weighted wooden keys for people who need a stage piano.

11. Some performance helpers, like scene buttons... sounds not cutting of, when switching to the next combi... etc. ...

12. Everything that was achieved in the workstation area until today... I don't want to go back. I can't name everything out of my head, but you know what I mean.

I don't know, if I forgot something important, but that already seems to be a lot... I have no clue how much such a thing would cost, but I would be willing to pay it if it is, what I had in my head, at the moment of writing. Could also be it's too late at night in Europe now and 5-6 german "Keller" beer made me talk nonesense... ;-)

Back to the days of $100,000 synths.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on August 29, 2020, 06:51:44 PM
What if they throw all of your ideas in one machine and build the long awaited Kronos killer workstation with completely analog synth engines (not only the filter like the Fantom) and the technique of the Prophet X for sampling and digital stuff? The sequencer of the Pro 3?

I would love such a concept... even if this would make half of my live setup obsolete.

If I think what I really need of a new workstation I come to only a few things:

1. I need at least 16 parts/voices/patches on different midi channels in a combi/setup/performance/song... how ever you call these things. I think you know what I want to say...

2. I want to assing every part a specific type like analog synth, sample (for natural strings, brass, etc. ... ), or digital synth sounds like fm stuff, etc. ...

3. A high polyphony in the digital part (at least 256 voices) because I layer a lot

4. A medium count of analog voices like 32 to be able to (for examples) layer a pad with a bell-like sound and still play a lead sound over this - available voices dynamically shared over all analog patches playing at the moment.

5. Powerfull midi setup, for doing internal midi routing "per Combi/Setup/Performance/Song"... to work with external gear. And do such things, like route for only one specific song an external keyboard A to an external sound engine B, both connected per Midi to the workstation. In other words: make it have an internal midi router like an iConnectivity mio10 or something and store the setup PER COMBI! This is (in my opionion) what all workstations of today are lacking. The Kronos is great for controlling other gear... and great for being controlled by other gear. But it lacks the feature of routing connected gear among themselves. That would simplify my setup a lot. Dave invented this midi stuff... if any corporation can do this, then it has to be Sequential.

6. Powerful sequencer, for a) backing tracks and b) step-sequencer-like stuff like drum patterns and repeating melodies, etc. ... an arpeggiator would be nice, too.

7. A powerful effects engine with at least 2 effects per part in a combi (so it should be 32 over all), 4 master effects (routable per send and return) and 2 total effects (fixed kind of master effect).

8. At least 3 pairs of balanced stereo outputs, 2 pairs of stereo inputs, and a lot of internal routing possibilities like in a digital mixing console (Kronos does this pretty well, with effects busses and recording busses, etc. ).

9. A lot of analog controls and additionally a really big responsive touchscreen like an iPad Pro.

10. A Fatar keybed like the Moog One's for a 61 key version. And an 88 key version with weighted wooden keys for people who need a stage piano.

11. Some performance helpers, like scene buttons... sounds not cutting of, when switching to the next combi... etc. ...

12. Everything that was achieved in the workstation area until today... I don't want to go back. I can't name everything out of my head, but you know what I mean.

I don't know, if I forgot something important, but that already seems to be a lot... I have no clue how much such a thing would cost, but I would be willing to pay it if it is, what I had in my head, at the moment of writing. Could also be it's too late at night in Europe now and 5-6 german "Keller" beer made me talk nonesense... ;-)

Back to the days of $100,000 synths.


I don’t see Dave doing a workstation... my 2¢
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on August 29, 2020, 07:06:08 PM
What if they throw all of your ideas in one machine and build the long awaited Kronos killer workstation with completely analog synth engines (not only the filter like the Fantom) and the technique of the Prophet X for sampling and digital stuff? The sequencer of the Pro 3?

I would love such a concept... even if this would make half of my live setup obsolete.

If I think what I really need of a new workstation I come to only a few things:

1. I need at least 16 parts/voices/patches on different midi channels in a combi/setup/performance/song... how ever you call these things. I think you know what I want to say...

2. I want to assing every part a specific type like analog synth, sample (for natural strings, brass, etc. ... ), or digital synth sounds like fm stuff, etc. ...

3. A high polyphony in the digital part (at least 256 voices) because I layer a lot

4. A medium count of analog voices like 32 to be able to (for examples) layer a pad with a bell-like sound and still play a lead sound over this - available voices dynamically shared over all analog patches playing at the moment.

5. Powerfull midi setup, for doing internal midi routing "per Combi/Setup/Performance/Song"... to work with external gear. And do such things, like route for only one specific song an external keyboard A to an external sound engine B, both connected per Midi to the workstation. In other words: make it have an internal midi router like an iConnectivity mio10 or something and store the setup PER COMBI! This is (in my opionion) what all workstations of today are lacking. The Kronos is great for controlling other gear... and great for being controlled by other gear. But it lacks the feature of routing connected gear among themselves. That would simplify my setup a lot. Dave invented this midi stuff... if any corporation can do this, then it has to be Sequential.

6. Powerful sequencer, for a) backing tracks and b) step-sequencer-like stuff like drum patterns and repeating melodies, etc. ... an arpeggiator would be nice, too.

7. A powerful effects engine with at least 2 effects per part in a combi (so it should be 32 over all), 4 master effects (routable per send and return) and 2 total effects (fixed kind of master effect).

8. At least 3 pairs of balanced stereo outputs, 2 pairs of stereo inputs, and a lot of internal routing possibilities like in a digital mixing console (Kronos does this pretty well, with effects busses and recording busses, etc. ).

9. A lot of analog controls and additionally a really big responsive touchscreen like an iPad Pro.

10. A Fatar keybed like the Moog One's for a 61 key version. And an 88 key version with weighted wooden keys for people who need a stage piano.

11. Some performance helpers, like scene buttons... sounds not cutting of, when switching to the next combi... etc. ...

12. Everything that was achieved in the workstation area until today... I don't want to go back. I can't name everything out of my head, but you know what I mean.

I don't know, if I forgot something important, but that already seems to be a lot... I have no clue how much such a thing would cost, but I would be willing to pay it if it is, what I had in my head, at the moment of writing. Could also be it's too late at night in Europe now and 5-6 german "Keller" beer made me talk nonesense... ;-)

Back to the days of $100,000 synths.


I don’t see Dave doing a workstation... my 2¢

“Who wants to work? It’s in the name.” -Dave Smith.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on August 29, 2020, 07:26:09 PM
I don’t see Dave doing a workstation... my 2¢

He won't. 

While Dave has a background in computer science as well as electrical engineering, he is NOT a software guy and has said many times he has no interest in becoming that.  I've been creating software for almost as long as Dave has been creating musical hardware, and those of us in the  hardware vs. software engineering camps can recognize each other's skill set very quickly.  A workstation depends so heavily on software, and the things that Dave has said he despises (such as compatibility with this or that, constant updates... etc), so it will just never happen under the Sequential name.

Dave wants to be the creator of synths as a musical instrument, where each distinct instrument is sort of like a specific guitar, that has physical properties to it's feel and its sound.  He's not interested in creating "all in one super computer" type synths, that end up being a jack-of-all-trades-yet-master-of-none swiss army knife device.

I actually think his tight focus on specific synths doing one thing and doing it very well is what sets Sequential's stuff apart from the crowd.   Look at Roland, they're lost.   Want a Juno-106 these days?  Well you could buy the VST and run it on your PC via Roland cloud... or you can buy a System-8 and run it on the synth... Or you could buy a Jupiter X and run it there, and some will tell you none of them sound the same and they are all suffering from shitty user interface...   And still, none of them really capture the sound of the original Juno, because they are software synths.

Dave makes playable instruments, I hope he continues that.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on August 29, 2020, 08:07:31 PM
Since the $3,000 barrier has been breached, why not create that two-manual instrument.  I mean, the big instruments now seem to be gobbled up in no time.  Look at the ARP 2600.  I hardly had time to dream about one before they were all taken.  So, why not a expand the Prophet 6 or Rev 2 into a paired instrument?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on August 29, 2020, 08:49:14 PM
Since the $3,000 barrier has been breached, why not create that two-manual instrument.  I mean, the big instruments now seem to be gobbled up in no time.  Look at the ARP 2600.  I hardly had time to dream about one before they were all taken.  So, why not a expand the Prophet 6 or Rev 2 into a paired instrument?

I still say Prophet 20 with each engine having ten voices. That’s a Prophet 10 per keybed!
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Quatschmacher on August 30, 2020, 08:15:53 AM
What if they throw all of your ideas in one machine and build the long awaited Kronos killer workstation with completely analog synth engines (not only the filter like the Fantom) and the technique of the Prophet X for sampling and digital stuff? The sequencer of the Pro 3?

I would love such a concept... even if this would make half of my live setup obsolete.

If I think what I really need of a new workstation I come to only a few things:

1. I need at least 16 parts/voices/patches on different midi channels in a combi/setup/performance/song... how ever you call these things. I think you know what I want to say...

2. I want to assing every part a specific type like analog synth, sample (for natural strings, brass, etc. ... ), or digital synth sounds like fm stuff, etc. ...

3. A high polyphony in the digital part (at least 256 voices) because I layer a lot

4. A medium count of analog voices like 32 to be able to (for examples) layer a pad with a bell-like sound and still play a lead sound over this - available voices dynamically shared over all analog patches playing at the moment.

5. Powerfull midi setup, for doing internal midi routing "per Combi/Setup/Performance/Song"... to work with external gear. And do such things, like route for only one specific song an external keyboard A to an external sound engine B, both connected per Midi to the workstation. In other words: make it have an internal midi router like an iConnectivity mio10 or something and store the setup PER COMBI! This is (in my opionion) what all workstations of today are lacking. The Kronos is great for controlling other gear... and great for being controlled by other gear. But it lacks the feature of routing connected gear among themselves. That would simplify my setup a lot. Dave invented this midi stuff... if any corporation can do this, then it has to be Sequential.

6. Powerful sequencer, for a) backing tracks and b) step-sequencer-like stuff like drum patterns and repeating melodies, etc. ... an arpeggiator would be nice, too.

7. A powerful effects engine with at least 2 effects per part in a combi (so it should be 32 over all), 4 master effects (routable per send and return) and 2 total effects (fixed kind of master effect).

8. At least 3 pairs of balanced stereo outputs, 2 pairs of stereo inputs, and a lot of internal routing possibilities like in a digital mixing console (Kronos does this pretty well, with effects busses and recording busses, etc. ).

9. A lot of analog controls and additionally a really big responsive touchscreen like an iPad Pro.

10. A Fatar keybed like the Moog One's for a 61 key version. And an 88 key version with weighted wooden keys for people who need a stage piano.

11. Some performance helpers, like scene buttons... sounds not cutting of, when switching to the next combi... etc. ...

12. Everything that was achieved in the workstation area until today... I don't want to go back. I can't name everything out of my head, but you know what I mean.

I don't know, if I forgot something important, but that already seems to be a lot... I have no clue how much such a thing would cost, but I would be willing to pay it if it is, what I had in my head, at the moment of writing. Could also be it's too late at night in Europe now and 5-6 german "Keller" beer made me talk nonesense... ;-)

Back to the days of $100,000 synths.


I don’t see Dave doing a workstation... my 2¢

“Who wants to work? It’s in the name.” -Dave Smith.

The Sequential Fun Station.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: jok3r on August 30, 2020, 02:03:40 PM
What if they throw all of your ideas in one machine and build the long awaited Kronos killer workstation with completely analog synth engines (not only the filter like the Fantom) and the technique of the Prophet X for sampling and digital stuff? The sequencer of the Pro 3?

I would love such a concept... even if this would make half of my live setup obsolete.

If I think what I really need of a new workstation I come to only a few things:

1. I need at least 16 parts/voices/patches on different midi channels in a combi/setup/performance/song... how ever you call these things. I think you know what I want to say...

2. I want to assing every part a specific type like analog synth, sample (for natural strings, brass, etc. ... ), or digital synth sounds like fm stuff, etc. ...

3. A high polyphony in the digital part (at least 256 voices) because I layer a lot

4. A medium count of analog voices like 32 to be able to (for examples) layer a pad with a bell-like sound and still play a lead sound over this - available voices dynamically shared over all analog patches playing at the moment.

5. Powerfull midi setup, for doing internal midi routing "per Combi/Setup/Performance/Song"... to work with external gear. And do such things, like route for only one specific song an external keyboard A to an external sound engine B, both connected per Midi to the workstation. In other words: make it have an internal midi router like an iConnectivity mio10 or something and store the setup PER COMBI! This is (in my opionion) what all workstations of today are lacking. The Kronos is great for controlling other gear... and great for being controlled by other gear. But it lacks the feature of routing connected gear among themselves. That would simplify my setup a lot. Dave invented this midi stuff... if any corporation can do this, then it has to be Sequential.

6. Powerful sequencer, for a) backing tracks and b) step-sequencer-like stuff like drum patterns and repeating melodies, etc. ... an arpeggiator would be nice, too.

7. A powerful effects engine with at least 2 effects per part in a combi (so it should be 32 over all), 4 master effects (routable per send and return) and 2 total effects (fixed kind of master effect).

8. At least 3 pairs of balanced stereo outputs, 2 pairs of stereo inputs, and a lot of internal routing possibilities like in a digital mixing console (Kronos does this pretty well, with effects busses and recording busses, etc. ).

9. A lot of analog controls and additionally a really big responsive touchscreen like an iPad Pro.

10. A Fatar keybed like the Moog One's for a 61 key version. And an 88 key version with weighted wooden keys for people who need a stage piano.

11. Some performance helpers, like scene buttons... sounds not cutting of, when switching to the next combi... etc. ...

12. Everything that was achieved in the workstation area until today... I don't want to go back. I can't name everything out of my head, but you know what I mean.

I don't know, if I forgot something important, but that already seems to be a lot... I have no clue how much such a thing would cost, but I would be willing to pay it if it is, what I had in my head, at the moment of writing. Could also be it's too late at night in Europe now and 5-6 german "Keller" beer made me talk nonesense... ;-)

Back to the days of $100,000 synths.


I don’t see Dave doing a workstation... my 2¢

“Who wants to work? It’s in the name.” -Dave Smith.

The Sequential Fun Station.

Ok, I didn‘t know Dave said those things, sorry.

But for the price range, I think one could build that in the price range of a Moog One. You could build the analog part on basis of the Rev2 for example. Even if it sounds a little naiv, but a Kronos plus two Rev2s are in that price range.

I think the amount of software that has to be written, can not be an argument, because the software that must be written to drive those „analog hardware synth“ must consist of several lines of code, too.

But yeah... overall it was a dumb idea. It was late at night here, you know... sometimes you get a „vision“ then ;-)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: MPM on August 31, 2020, 05:57:25 AM
I've decided it's going to be a SynDrum kit, with 4 track sequencing (except if you drum for Def Leopard).
 
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Soundquest on August 31, 2020, 10:15:45 AM
I've decided it's going to be a SynDrum kit, with 4 track sequencing (except if you drum for Def Leopard).

Hope not ;)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on September 01, 2020, 02:09:47 PM
I've decided it's going to be a SynDrum kit, with 4 track sequencing (except if you drum for Def Leopard).

Hope not ;)

You know the Nord Drum 3p is actually quite interesting and would make a nice addition to any synth arsenal.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: MPM on September 04, 2020, 04:39:58 PM

You know the Nord Drum 3p

An octopad, hmmm. Well he did say it was on his bench where the Pro3 was sitting, but then again, he also said shipping in Aug.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on September 05, 2020, 05:55:59 PM

You know the Nord Drum 3p

An octopad, hmmm. Well he did say it was on his bench where the Pro3 was sitting, but then again, he also said shipping in Aug.

I don't think I've mentioned how I have my drums set up, but I have the Roland Octapad and SPD-SX special edition (red and looks like the Nord except it has three additional "hard hit" pads at the top that are great for things like crash symbols). I have a kit on each set up to easily switch between controlling NI Maschine, XO, Addictive Drums or Groove Agent.. then a Roland KT-10 for the kick trigger.  Even just limiting the sounds to Maschine, between kit samples and drum synth the possibilities are mind boggling.  Being a former drummer, I never could get the same results from tapping keys or finger pads that I can with sticks, the velocity expression just isn't the same... can be edited in the DAW after the fact, but that throws the workflow all off.  The Roland units have some great sounds built in... lots of variety on the Octapad, and plenty of RAM for custom samples on the SPD-SX, but unlike synths, it feels pretty limiting to edit sounds and FX on the units themselves versus the Maschine software, pitch things up and down, gate snares, etc.  Plus it uses a single USB cable to the PC leaving more preamps available.  If I were gigging live I would probably appreciate the onboard kits they have.

I really couldn't imagine needing more in the percussion department.  I hope this isn't what the new products are about.
I think what I'm jonesing for more than anything is a Prophet 12 successor.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on September 06, 2020, 12:46:02 AM

You know the Nord Drum 3p

An octopad, hmmm. Well he did say it was on his bench where the Pro3 was sitting, but then again, he also said shipping in Aug.

I don't think I've mentioned how I have my drums set up, but I have the Roland Octapad and SPD-SX special edition (red and looks like the Nord except it has three additional "hard hit" pads at the top that are great for things like crash symbols). I have a kit on each set up to easily switch between controlling NI Maschine, XO, Addictive Drums or Groove Agent.. then a Roland KT-10 for the kick trigger.  Even just limiting the sounds to Maschine, between kit samples and drum synth the possibilities are mind boggling.  Being a former drummer, I never could get the same results from tapping keys or finger pads that I can with sticks, the velocity expression just isn't the same... can be edited in the DAW after the fact, but that throws the workflow all off.  The Roland units have some great sounds built in... lots of variety on the Octapad, and plenty of RAM for custom samples on the SPD-SX, but unlike synths, it feels pretty limiting to edit sounds and FX on the units themselves versus the Maschine software, pitch things up and down, gate snares, etc.  Plus it uses a single USB cable to the PC leaving more preamps available.  If I were gigging live I would probably appreciate the onboard kits they have.

I really couldn't imagine needing more in the percussion department.  I hope this isn't what the new products are about.
I think what I'm jonesing for more than anything is a Prophet 12 successor.

Still....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8HTu918ths
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on September 06, 2020, 05:09:00 AM
Still....

As much as I would love to have more room in my studio (its a small spare bedroom) for gear with a larger footprint (larger drum setup), I couldn't justify giving up the space.  For fills such as that video, my default MIDI template assigns four of the pads on the SPDSX to four slots on Maschine.  SPDSX only provides 3 pads per row, so I have them pitched high to low going left to right and then down one (so that the fourth tom is on the second row, right below the third tom).  The remaining two large pads are for "miscellany" like claps, sticks sounds, etc. and the Octopad is reserved for hi-hat, snare and ride cymbal variations, so that when doing tom fills such as the one in the video I reach to the right for the SPDSX.   I like having four full toms, and when I want to change the sound it's very easy in Maschine to select the first tom (or create one from scratch if I want), then cut and paste it into the remaining 3 slots and pitch each of them down slightly from the one before it, or change FX for each pad if needed.

It's a great setup if physical space is an issue.  In some ways, the smaller pads + drumsticks give a speed advantage over something like a larger V-Drum setup because of the quicker rebound and their close proximity to each other, and its orders of magnitude better than finger tapping.  I do miss the overall physicality of playing a large acoustic set sometimes though, especially for rock oriented music.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on September 06, 2020, 09:50:50 AM
Still....

As much as I would love to have more room in my studio (its a small spare bedroom) for gear with a larger footprint (larger drum setup), I couldn't justify giving up the space.  For fills such as that video, my default MIDI template assigns four of the pads on the SPDSX to four slots on Maschine.  SPDSX only provides 3 pads per row, so I have them pitched high to low going left to right and then down one (so that the fourth tom is on the second row, right below the third tom).  The remaining two large pads are for "miscellany" like claps, sticks sounds, etc. and the Octopad is reserved for hi-hat, snare and ride cymbal variations, so that when doing tom fills such as the one in the video I reach to the right for the SPDSX.   I like having four full toms, and when I want to change the sound it's very easy in Maschine to select the first tom (or create one from scratch if I want), then cut and paste it into the remaining 3 slots and pitch each of them down slightly from the one before it, or change FX for each pad if needed.

It's a great setup if physical space is an issue.  In some ways, the smaller pads + drumsticks give a speed advantage over something like a larger V-Drum setup because of the quicker rebound and their close proximity to each other, and its orders of magnitude better than finger tapping.  I do miss the overall physicality of playing a large acoustic set sometimes though, especially for rock oriented music.

I think I’m more intrigued with the idea of an analog synth as a drum brain rather than the pads.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on September 06, 2020, 11:08:31 AM
Still....

As much as I would love to have more room in my studio (its a small spare bedroom) for gear with a larger footprint (larger drum setup), I couldn't justify giving up the space.  For fills such as that video, my default MIDI template assigns four of the pads on the SPDSX to four slots on Maschine.  SPDSX only provides 3 pads per row, so I have them pitched high to low going left to right and then down one (so that the fourth tom is on the second row, right below the third tom).  The remaining two large pads are for "miscellany" like claps, sticks sounds, etc. and the Octopad is reserved for hi-hat, snare and ride cymbal variations, so that when doing tom fills such as the one in the video I reach to the right for the SPDSX.   I like having four full toms, and when I want to change the sound it's very easy in Maschine to select the first tom (or create one from scratch if I want), then cut and paste it into the remaining 3 slots and pitch each of them down slightly from the one before it, or change FX for each pad if needed.

It's a great setup if physical space is an issue.  In some ways, the smaller pads + drumsticks give a speed advantage over something like a larger V-Drum setup because of the quicker rebound and their close proximity to each other, and its orders of magnitude better than finger tapping.  I do miss the overall physicality of playing a large acoustic set sometimes though, especially for rock oriented music.

I think I’m more intrigued with the idea of an analog synth as a drum brain rather than the pads.


Drum pads connected to a tempest?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on September 06, 2020, 12:01:41 PM
Still....

As much as I would love to have more room in my studio (its a small spare bedroom) for gear with a larger footprint (larger drum setup), I couldn't justify giving up the space.  For fills such as that video, my default MIDI template assigns four of the pads on the SPDSX to four slots on Maschine.  SPDSX only provides 3 pads per row, so I have them pitched high to low going left to right and then down one (so that the fourth tom is on the second row, right below the third tom).  The remaining two large pads are for "miscellany" like claps, sticks sounds, etc. and the Octopad is reserved for hi-hat, snare and ride cymbal variations, so that when doing tom fills such as the one in the video I reach to the right for the SPDSX.   I like having four full toms, and when I want to change the sound it's very easy in Maschine to select the first tom (or create one from scratch if I want), then cut and paste it into the remaining 3 slots and pitch each of them down slightly from the one before it, or change FX for each pad if needed.

It's a great setup if physical space is an issue.  In some ways, the smaller pads + drumsticks give a speed advantage over something like a larger V-Drum setup because of the quicker rebound and their close proximity to each other, and its orders of magnitude better than finger tapping.  I do miss the overall physicality of playing a large acoustic set sometimes though, especially for rock oriented music.

I think I’m more intrigued with the idea of an analog synth as a drum brain rather than the pads.


Drum pads connected to a tempest?

That could work as well. I'd just be worried about polyphony but you are right with maybe 4-5 pads it could essentially be the same effect via Midi to some drum pads.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on September 06, 2020, 01:18:24 PM

That could work as well. I'd just be worried about polyphony but you are right with maybe 4-5 pads it could essentially be the same effect via Midi to some drum pads.

This is one reason I'm content to use samples for drums.  The Tempest was great and I'd love to have one, but 6 analog voices is pretty much the brain of a Prophet in a box (and the associated price tag), which for my needs, for one-shot type sounds, I think is overkill.  When it comes to analog polys, samples can't replace them in my set up, because all of the real-time modulation options become unavailable with sample.. but with one shot drums I don't need a lot of real time control over a single voice, I just need to be able to assign multiple pads to slight variations on the sound (for example two snare pads with one slightly offset in timbre from the other gives a very realistic snare roll sound).  I guess perhaps that comes down to individual needs / perhaps also to what extent ones set up is DAW-based.  Maschine also does have a drum synth for analog drum sounds, although I use samples most of the time.

What I wouldn't mind to see is some sort of mega-sequencer / analog drum machine combination with killer workflow, that would really give me a reason to avoid the keyboard and mouse when making music.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on September 06, 2020, 02:29:25 PM

That could work as well. I'd just be worried about polyphony but you are right with maybe 4-5 pads it could essentially be the same effect via Midi to some drum pads.

When it comes to analog polys, samples can't replace them in my set up, because all of the real-time modulation options become unavailable with sample.

I take it you haven't tried a Prophet X or XL.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on September 06, 2020, 04:22:07 PM
I take it you haven't tried a Prophet X or XL.

I have not, and I'm sure I would love it if I did (in my case physical space is the limiting factor).

When I say samples can't replace analog polys, I mean "cannot completely", in the analog purist sense, and for my own purposes ....  Not in the sense that a sampled analog poly can't sound just as great in most mixes and specific cases -- it's just that a sample cannot be manipulated in exactly the same ways, with the same results as a true analog signal, in real time.

If a sampler (or even virtual analog for that matter) could truly replace analog, there would be no demand for analog.  Vintage synths wouldn't be selling for crazy amounts.  All of the timbres of the original synths would have already been captured, and their original parameters perfectly emulated.  Yet the current state of technology is not even close to that, we still need real analog to sound analog, all these decades later (and I've been doing this since the mid 80s).

But yeah,  I wouldn't mind having a Prophet X, if Dave released a desktop version with full knobbery at about a $2k price point I'm probably in. 
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: jg666 on September 06, 2020, 11:42:55 PM
I was contemplating a Prophet X when it came out but have held off due to seeing too many reports of frozen and unresponsive units (in my opinion). As well as people reporting it on these forums, I was following a YouTube series which had to end abruptly due to the synth having to be sent back.

I know that for every reported 'bricked' unit, there will be many that have worked perfectly but it still puts me off.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on September 07, 2020, 12:26:37 AM
I was contemplating a Prophet X when it came out but have held off due to seeing too many reports of frozen and unresponsive units (in my opinion). As well as people reporting it on these forums, I was following a YouTube series which had to end abruptly due to the synth having to be sent back.

I know that for every reported 'bricked' unit, there will be many that have worked perfectly but it still puts me off.

Honestly, after I had to send my Prophet 6 in for repair for a faulty voice card I realized that synths are going to have issues eventually. Even Moog Ones had numerous issues. No synth is going to be perfect

Part of it is luck of the draw and part of it is how you treat the instrument. The Prophet X is a computer essentially and one needs to treat it as if they are treating their own personal computer. Don't hammer the keys or really go crazy on the thing as the architecture is not a typical approach to a synthesizer. Even the OS update is done completely different than any of their other synths.

I've played mine constantly, imported long LONG samples of film dialogue, sound effects, monster roars, etc ran midi in, out, through and I haven't had a single freeze or glitch. Maybe I'm just super delicate with it. I dunno.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on September 11, 2020, 03:09:47 PM
Good news everyone!   I just purchased a Matriarch which means Sequential will be announcing their new synth (making me regret my purchase) imminently!  (at least, that's how it usually goes)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: jg666 on September 11, 2020, 03:36:38 PM
Good news everyone!   I just purchased a Matriarch which means Sequential will be announcing their new synth (making me regret my purchase) imminently!  (at least, that's how it usually goes)

Lol - I know the feeling, I thought it was only me that happened to  ;D

Enjoy your Matriarch:)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on September 11, 2020, 03:50:48 PM
Good news everyone!   I just purchased a Matriarch which means Sequential will be announcing their new synth (making me regret my purchase) imminently!  (at least, that's how it usually goes)

Ha!  Just enjoy your Matriarch and give the new Sequential synth, whatever it turns out to be, a year or two to get the bugs worked out.... I was in the same position that A LOT of folks are, waiting for the shoe to drop on the new DaveSynth(tm).  I was otherwise zeroing in on the Prophet 6 for a couple of months until I just eventually decided I wanted a P6 regardless.   If Dave releases the new synth next week, I will keep an eye on it and decide if it's right for me after watching LOTS of Youtube vids, letting the available sound libraries accumulate after those with more time on their hands than me have explored sound design, then make a call on whether it's right for the music I want to make today.
No regrets on the P6 purchase whatsoever...it stays put, regardless.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on September 11, 2020, 06:19:07 PM
Good news everyone!   I just purchased a Matriarch which means Sequential will be announcing their new synth (making me regret my purchase) imminently!  (at least, that's how it usually goes)

The Matriarch sounds fantastic. Although personally I do wish Moog would do a paraphonic analog string machine/Vocoder in the Matriarch format with a built in analog flanger.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: CoffeePockets on September 14, 2020, 01:48:25 PM
Good news everyone!   I just purchased a Matriarch which means Sequential will be announcing their new synth (making me regret my purchase) imminently!  (at least, that's how it usually goes)

Ha!  Just enjoy your Matriarch and give the new Sequential synth, whatever it turns out to be, a year or two to get the bugs worked out.... I was in the same position that A LOT of folks are, waiting for the shoe to drop on the new DaveSynth(tm).  I was otherwise zeroing in on the Prophet 6 for a couple of months until I just eventually decided I wanted a P6 regardless.   If Dave releases the new synth next week, I will keep an eye on it and decide if it's right for me after watching LOTS of Youtube vids, letting the available sound libraries accumulate after those with more time on their hands than me have explored sound design, then make a call on whether it's right for the music I want to make today.
No regrets on the P6 purchase whatsoever...it stays put, regardless.

I find this far too sensible/practical. So I will continue my pattern of buying sight unseen and sound unheard! I will conform and contort my tastes to fit whatever the heck this new device is! (oh god please please please dont let it be a groove box or DJ anything...)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Quatschmacher on September 14, 2020, 02:04:57 PM
I’ve just been offered a screaming deal on a brand new Summit which I’d be stupid to pass up on. Also, the Polybrute appears to be real.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: jg666 on September 25, 2020, 03:48:17 AM
Good news everyone!   I just purchased a Matriarch which means Sequential will be announcing their new synth (making me regret my purchase) imminently!  (at least, that's how it usually goes)

You was nearly right... I see Moog have just announced 'Dark' versions of the Grandmother and Matriarch !
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on September 25, 2020, 05:16:20 AM
Good news everyone!   I just purchased a Matriarch which means Sequential will be announcing their new synth (making me regret my purchase) imminently!  (at least, that's how it usually goes)

You was nearly right... I see Moog have just announced 'Dark' versions of the Grandmother and Matriarch !
No Shit... I’ve emailed my Sweetwater rep to see if I can trade up.... my synth collection contains several nice looking synths... and then there’s the Moog “fruit loops”
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: jg666 on September 25, 2020, 05:22:10 AM
Good news everyone!   I just purchased a Matriarch which means Sequential will be announcing their new synth (making me regret my purchase) imminently!  (at least, that's how it usually goes)

You was nearly right... I see Moog have just announced 'Dark' versions of the Grandmother and Matriarch !
No Shit... I’ve emailed my Sweetwater rep to see if I can trade up.... my synth collection contains several nice looking synths... and then there’s the Moog “fruit loops”

Hopefully they will let you do this (fingers crossed) :)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on September 25, 2020, 05:44:02 AM
I prefer the fruit loops.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on September 25, 2020, 05:55:32 AM
No Shit... I’ve emailed my Sweetwater rep to see if I can trade up.... my synth collection contains several nice looking synths... and then there’s the Moog “fruit loops”
Hopefully they will let you do this (fingers crossed) :)


Not really a big deal.  I’m happy to keep the pastel colored version. I don’t do gigs, so I’m the only one who sees it... but I do think the all black version is more visually inspiring — it matches the sonic character of the Matriarch.



I prefer the fruit loops.

When I was little, my grandfather used to tell me “... and that’s why they make both vanilla and chocolate”.   :)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: jok3r on September 25, 2020, 09:02:20 AM
I prefer the fruit loops.

I prefer the fruit loops, too. And in Germany it seems like the Dark version costs 200€ more?! I think that's very much for a "design option" ...
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on September 25, 2020, 01:56:50 PM
I prefer the fruit loops.

I prefer the fruit loops, too. And in Germany it seems like the Dark version costs 200€ more?! I think that's very much for a "design option" ...

I prefer the dark look to multicolor, but I totally agree with you on the cost premium for minor design changes... It looks like price is the same in the US, wonder if that's an individual retailer or a Moog thing in Europe?  Honestly I can say the same for the Pro3 Special Edition.  If I ever do own a P3, I'd want the flip up top, and I expect wood on an analog synth, but a $500 price premium for just those two features seems a bit much.  We could call that Dave's tequila tax!..   still love the guy though.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on September 25, 2020, 02:43:58 PM
I prefer the "Radio Shack" looking design for the Matriarch but the "Dark" design for the Grandmother.

I dunno I think I'm just bored with dark looking synths. Which is why I hope Sequential's next synth is white...or blue.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: jg666 on September 25, 2020, 02:50:53 PM
I know what you mean about wanting a change from dark/black synths... During the lockdown a UK shop had an amazing deal on white Yamaha Montage synths, so I just had to get one as it looks really good in my opinion :)

I don’t think I’d pay extra for the Moog black version.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on September 25, 2020, 03:04:51 PM
I know what you mean about wanting a change from dark/black synths... During the lockdown a UK shop had an amazing deal on white Yamaha Montage synths, so I just had to get one as it looks really good in my opinion :)

I don’t think I’d pay extra for the Moog black version.

That white Montage looks sharp.....and that white Prophet 12 looked excellent. I know Dave might night think it would be received well by customers but I think the response would generally be positive if it was a blue tribute to the Poly Evolver or even something based off of the white P12. I think people would generally appreciate it looking visually different.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: jg666 on September 25, 2020, 03:08:35 PM
I know what you mean about wanting a change from dark/black synths... During the lockdown a UK shop had an amazing deal on white Yamaha Montage synths, so I just had to get one as it looks really good in my opinion :)

I don’t think I’d pay extra for the Moog black version.

That white Montage looks sharp.....and that white Prophet 12 looked excellent. I know Dave might night think it would be received well by customers but I think the response would generally be positive if it was a blue tribute to the Poly Evolver or even something based off of the white P12. I think people would generally appreciate it looking visually different.

I agree. Something that looks different would be appreciated by many.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: jok3r on September 26, 2020, 03:35:26 AM
I prefer the fruit loops.

I prefer the fruit loops, too. And in Germany it seems like the Dark version costs 200€ more?! I think that's very much for a "design option" ...

I prefer the dark look to multicolor, but I totally agree with you on the cost premium for minor design changes... It looks like price is the same in the US, wonder if that's an individual retailer or a Moog thing in Europe?  Honestly I can say the same for the Pro3 Special Edition.  If I ever do own a P3, I'd want the flip up top, and I expect wood on an analog synth, but a $500 price premium for just those two features seems a bit much.  We could call that Dave's tequila tax!..   still love the guy though.

At least the Pro3 SE has some kind of additional "functionality" with the adjustable panel and the wood ends are another material, so the price has to be different. I don't want to judge, if it's too much, or not... but it's OK that it is different...

But the Moog Dark Series is just another finish of the front plate I would guess. That should not make a big difference...
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on September 26, 2020, 05:00:08 AM
I prefer the fruit loops.

I prefer the fruit loops, too. And in Germany it seems like the Dark version costs 200€ more?! I think that's very much for a "design option" ...

I prefer the dark look to multicolor, but I totally agree with you on the cost premium for minor design changes... It looks like price is the same in the US, wonder if that's an individual retailer or a Moog thing in Europe?  Honestly I can say the same for the Pro3 Special Edition.  If I ever do own a P3, I'd want the flip up top, and I expect wood on an analog synth, but a $500 price premium for just those two features seems a bit much.  We could call that Dave's tequila tax!..   still love the guy though.

At least the Pro3 SE has some kind of additional "functionality" with the adjustable panel and the wood ends are another material, so the price has to be different. I don't want to judge, if it's too much, or not... but it's OK that it is different...

But the Moog Dark Series is just another finish of the front plate I would guess. That should not make a big difference...

Agree, it shouldn't.  The dark version is a couple of hundred quids higher at Andertons as well, so it's not just in Germany.  That makes me wonder if Moog is encountering some new export expense that they have decided to try to recover on the dark versions rather than suffer the bad press of increasing the price of existing versions.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: narkosys on September 26, 2020, 07:03:28 AM
The major store closest to me has the Dark at the same price as the puke pastel version.  I also noticed that they dropped the price of the Matrixbrute by $500 now that the Polybrute is coming out in a few months.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on September 26, 2020, 08:31:02 AM
I prefer the fruit loops.

I prefer the fruit loops, too. And in Germany it seems like the Dark version costs 200€ more?! I think that's very much for a "design option" ...

I prefer the dark look to multicolor, but I totally agree with you on the cost premium for minor design changes... It looks like price is the same in the US, wonder if that's an individual retailer or a Moog thing in Europe?  Honestly I can say the same for the Pro3 Special Edition.  If I ever do own a P3, I'd want the flip up top, and I expect wood on an analog synth, but a $500 price premium for just those two features seems a bit much.  We could call that Dave's tequila tax!..   still love the guy though.

At least the Pro3 SE has some kind of additional "functionality" with the adjustable panel and the wood ends are another material, so the price has to be different. I don't want to judge, if it's too much, or not... but it's OK that it is different...

But the Moog Dark Series is just another finish of the front plate I would guess. That should not make a big difference...

Agree, it shouldn't.  The dark version is a couple of hundred quid higher at Andertons as well, so it's not just in Germany.  That makes me wonder if Moog is encountering some new export expense that they have decided to try to recover on the dark versions rather than suffer the bad press of increasing the price of existing versions.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on September 26, 2020, 11:45:45 AM
I think Moog is just trying to be the Gibson of the synth world. You are paying a premium for whatever they feel deserves it.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on September 26, 2020, 12:43:26 PM
I think Moog is just trying to be the Gibson of the synth world. You are paying a premium for whatever they feel deserves it.
But the Dark version is the same price in the US.


Perhaps overseas distributors are taking a larger share.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on September 26, 2020, 02:27:57 PM
I think Moog is just trying to be the Gibson of the synth world. You are paying a premium for whatever they feel deserves it.
But the Dark version is the same price in the US.


Perhaps overseas distributors are taking a larger share.

Well times are tough I suppose.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: megamarkd on September 26, 2020, 08:10:50 PM
Three days left of September and still no word on what Sequential has under the covers.  I'm still hoping for a desktop Pro 3, but I'm sure there something else bigger and better on the way (like a Pro 3 Six!)
I think Moog is just trying to be the Gibson of the synth world. You are paying a premium for whatever they feel deserves it.
Depends on which store you look at.  Some stores charge a premium on alt colours, as if they are a limited edition release when in reality they are not.  It's a common practice with Doepfer "vintage" panels.  Only thing to do is to shop around or if your preferred store is trying it on, just say to them "Can I have it at the regular price please?" and let them act like they are doing you a deal....

But yeah, Moog do charge a bit too much for what their products.  But what do you do, other than not buy them?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on September 26, 2020, 10:27:23 PM
But yeah, Moog do charge a bit too much for what their products.
That has certainly been what I have thought over the history of Moog, but I am starting to change my mind about that a little.


Take the Moog One for example.  The 16 voice runs you $530 per analogue voice — that’s if you don’t have a relationship with a dealer and I can get a bit of a discount (most people do and can). That “per voice” cost (while certainly more expensive than a Rev 2 or Prologue) is in line with OB-6 / P6. Yet the Moog One offers a lot that the OB-6 / P6 doesn’t — more LFOs, envelopes, a very comprehensive mod matrix, 61 keys in a keybed that is second to none...  it’s a “whole is greater than the sum of the parts” argument.  I’m not knocking the OB-6 or P6, not at all — they are both stellar.  But for what it does, the Moog One is priced about right for 16 analogue voices.


As for the Matriarch... similar statement.  While it doesn’t have a mod matrix or presets, 4 OSCs, 2 LFOs, 2 envelopes... and THAT sound.  It just has that sound that no other mono synth that I’ve had my hands on can produce.  I haven’t played the Pro 3, and I’m sure it’s stellar. But the Matriarch is in the same range ($100 cheaper than the SE).  I see them as very different creatures — I believe most synthesists would.


Anyway, I’ve had a couple Scotchs.... so I hope I’m coherent.  But the Matriarch produces a tone that can be warm, beefy, creamy... that Moog tone in the past (Voyager, Model D) would have cost you more.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: megamarkd on September 27, 2020, 02:29:39 AM
But yeah, Moog do charge a bit too much for what their products.
That has certainly been what I have thought over the history of Moog, but I am starting to change my mind about that a little.


Take the Moog One for example.  The 16 voice runs you $530 per analogue voice — that’s if you don’t have a relationship with a dealer and I can get a bit of a discount (most people do and can). That “per voice” cost (while certainly more expensive than a Rev 2 or Prologue) is in line with OB-6 / P6. Yet the Moog One offers a lot that the OB-6 / P6 doesn’t — more LFOs, envelopes, a very comprehensive mod matrix, 61 keys in a keybed that is second to none...  it’s a “whole is greater than the sum of the parts” argument.  I’m not knocking the OB-6 or P6, not at all — they are both stellar.  But for what it does, the Moog One is priced about right for 16 analogue voices.


As for the Matriarch... similar statement.  While it doesn’t have a mod matrix or presets, 4 OSCs, 2 LFOs, 2 envelopes... and THAT sound.  It just has that sound that no other mono synth that I’ve had my hands on can produce.  I haven’t played the Pro 3, and I’m sure it’s stellar. But the Matriarch is in the same range ($100 cheaper than the SE).  I see them as very different creatures — I believe most synthesists would.


Anyway, I’ve had a couple Scotchs.... so I hope I’m coherent.  But the Matriarch produces a tone that can be warm, beefy, creamy... that Moog tone in the past (Voyager, Model D) would have cost you more.

Hahaha, no worries mate, those scotchs haven't blurred your points at all.  And you have valid points, just I feel that there is a little bit of a "prestige tax" on the Moog name which climbs every 3mths in a manner not relative to inflation.  2yrs ago the Mother 32 was 2/3's the price it is now....
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on September 27, 2020, 05:51:37 AM
Hahaha, no worries mate, those scotchs haven't blurred your points at all.  And you have valid points, just I feel that there is a little bit of a "prestige tax" on the Moog name which climbs every 3mths in a manner not relative to inflation.  2yrs ago the Mother 32 was 2/3's the price it is now....
Ouch!  I hadn’t noticed that because the Mother 32 isn’t my kind of thing... but wow.  That’s odd.  You rarely see synths *increase* in retail price.

You could also make the VERY valid observation that if you want to get into Moog Modular, you had better have very deep pockets. Absurdly so.

So yeah... there is still a bit of a premium for the Moog name. 
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: jok3r on September 27, 2020, 11:54:33 AM
You rarely see synths *increase* in retail price.


What? I think that happens quite often. The Rev2 is more expensive at the moment, than when I bought it. The Prophet 6 has been 300€ cheaper than now for quite a long time (still didn't manage to buy one  :'( ) ... To name an example of another manufacturer: the PEAK has been cheaper, too ...

But I'm living in Europe... perhaps that has to do with some export/import taxes things that I don't know much about. I think prices in- and decrease constantly... that's why I have all the synth I care for on a watchlist.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: narkosys on September 27, 2020, 01:11:07 PM
In my neck of the woods, the Moog One 16 tops out at $762.44 per voice.  Then you have to add $91.50 per voice in taxes.  Not something to take lightly.

But I do agree with your assessment of the Moogs
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on September 27, 2020, 02:11:39 PM
You rarely see synths *increase* in retail price.


What? I think that happens quite often. The Rev2 is more expensive at the moment, than when I bought it. The Prophet 6 has been 300€ cheaper than now for quite a long time (still didn't manage to buy one  :'( ) ... To name an example of another manufacturer: the PEAK has been cheaper, too ...

But I'm living in Europe... perhaps that has to do with some export/import taxes things that I don't know much about. I think prices in- and decrease constantly... that's why I have all the synth I care for on a watchlist.
I'm pretty sure the PEAK, Rev2, P6... have remained the same price here in the US. I have seen synths go down in price -- especially toward the end of their life cycle... P12, Kurzweil PC3K, I've seen others.


You're definitely getting the euro distributor tax.  I pay extra for health care, you pay extra for everything else.  It probably all washes out in the mix.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: jok3r on September 27, 2020, 02:31:22 PM
I pay extra for health care, you pay extra for everything else.

Well, then I better choose health care  ::)

Maybe I could talk to my health insurance, because synths are a kind of mental health care for me  ;D
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: jg666 on September 27, 2020, 02:55:00 PM
Same here, my synth addiction helps keep me sane :) I live alone and haven’t had visitors since February (like most people during this current situation) but my synths keep me optimistic and stop me from drinking too much ;D
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on September 27, 2020, 03:14:03 PM
Looks like it’ll be an October release. Actually maybe not even a release but an announcement.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on September 27, 2020, 03:40:34 PM
I pay extra for health care, you pay extra for everything else.

Well, then I better choose health care  ::)

Maybe I could talk to my health insurance, because synths are a kind of mental health care for me  ;D
HAHAHA.... no doubt.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: S Y Z Y G Y X on September 28, 2020, 12:12:15 AM
Hell...I love my synths and outboard gear more than life itself ... but even they can’t help me from drinking a King’s amount of booze 🥃

Now, Sequential bringeth forth ye announcement of thine synth

Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: jg666 on September 28, 2020, 12:16:08 AM
Hell...I love my synths and outboard gear more than life itself ... but even they can’t help me from drinking a King’s amount of booze 🥃

Now, Sequential bringeth forth ye announcement of thine synth

Don't get me wrong, I still have a good skinfull Friday, Saturday and Sunday evenings, but thanks to my synths I don't even think about alcohol during the week :)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: S Y Z Y G Y X on September 28, 2020, 04:06:08 PM
That’s good on you brother666, I’ve actually gone down to 2 or 3 beers a night so I don’t get messy much at all anymore since the gigs stopped in March 😔  but yeah the Pro 3 is definitely helping keep me sane during this time.  Can’t help but wonder when things will ever get better!?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on September 28, 2020, 05:06:23 PM
That’s good on you brother666, I’ve actually gone down to 2 or 3 beers a night so I don’t get messy much at all anymore since the gigs stopped in March 😔  but yeah the Pro 3 is definitely helping keep me sane during this time.  Can’t help but wonder when things will ever get better!?

Next Summer. Just have a really bizarre feeling that’s when it’ll happen. I really think this is the time for people to plan and create the art they want to create to be ready to show it to the world. It’s weird last year I was pitching a film I wanted to make to people...an old 1950s style black and white monster movie and I wanted to tour it and show it at Drive Ins around Canada and the US. Distributors and producers laughed at me....now suddenly they are phoning me up because the popularity of Drive Ins have increased due to social distancing. Even music, I’ve been planning on making some full albums for a while and now that’s exactly what I’m doing. Writing constantly. Just putting stuff away in the vault and building up a catalog.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: S Y Z Y G Y X on September 28, 2020, 05:18:15 PM
That’s good on you brother666, I’ve actually gone down to 2 or 3 beers a night so I don’t get messy much at all anymore since the gigs stopped in March 😔  but yeah the Pro 3 is definitely helping keep me sane during this time.  Can’t help but wonder when things will ever get better!?

Next Summer. Just have a really bizarre feeling that’s when it’ll happen. I really think this is the time for people to plan and create the art they want to create to be ready to show it to the world. It’s weird last year I was pitching a film I wanted to make to people...an old 1950s style black and white monster movie and I wanted to tour it and show it at Drive Ins around Canada and the US. Distributors and producers laughed at me....now suddenly they are phoning me up because the popularity of Drive Ins have increased due to social distancing. Even music, I’ve been planning on making some full albums for a while and now that’s exactly what I’m doing. Writing constantly. Just putting stuff away in the vault and building up a catalog.

Lobo That sounds like a kick ass idea for a movie and what better time to get it going now that drive ins are what’s safe and fun!  That’s exactly what we are doing now just writing a bunch of music for the next year and by the end of 2021 we will pick our 10 favorite tracks out of whatever we end up making by then for a 2022 album.  Our label in Germany wants us to do a 2021 release but we feel more confident 2022 will be better for touring an album.  Definitely feeling you on now is the time to create and have fun doing it.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: jg666 on September 28, 2020, 11:10:49 PM
Just realised I used a term which some people might not know, around these parts having a good skinfull relates to getting very drunk :)

Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: chysn on September 29, 2020, 04:07:55 PM
Just realised I used a term which some people might not know, around these parts having a good skinfull relates to getting very drunk :)

I think I speak for most of us when I say we pretty much picked it up from context  :)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on September 30, 2020, 02:42:41 PM
Good news everyone!   I just purchased a Matriarch which means Sequential will be announcing their new synth (making me regret my purchase) imminently!  (at least, that's how it usually goes)

You was nearly right... I see Moog have just announced 'Dark' versions of the Grandmother and Matriarch !
No Shit... I’ve emailed my Sweetwater rep to see if I can trade up.... my synth collection contains several nice looking synths... and then there’s the Moog “fruit loops”


... just reporting back to the gang... I was successful!   Even the wife likes it better.   ;D


(http://modulatable.com/files/Matr.jpeg)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on September 30, 2020, 02:59:55 PM
... Just reporting back to the gang... I was successful!   Even the wife likes it better.   ;D (http://modulatable.com/files/Matr.jpeg)

Congratulations, Shaw.  See, this is just what the guys at Moog were thinking when they named it "Matriarch."   It's the one instrument that can get past the wife.

And so, the new Sequential instrument should be announced any day now.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on September 30, 2020, 03:27:13 PM
... just reporting back to the gang... I was successful!   Even the wife likes it better.   ;D


(http://modulatable.com/files/Matr.jpeg)

Nice gesture from Sweetwater. I just joined the club of Moog's semi-modulars by finally getting a Grandmother which was always meant to replace my Sub 37. The DFAM and Subharmonicon are next.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on September 30, 2020, 04:13:59 PM

Congratulations, Shaw.  See, this is just what the guys at Moog were thinking when they named it "Matriarch."   It's the one instrument that can get past the wife.And so, the new Sequential instrument should be announced any day now.

Yeah... Dave is queuing up the YouTube video as we speak....   :)


Nice gesture from Sweetwater. I just joined the club of Moog's semi-modulars by finally getting a Grandmother which was always meant to replace my Sub 37. The DFAM and Subharmonicon are next.

That's gonna be a sweet combination.  I, for one, am hoping that this DOESN'T lead me down the EuroCrack rabbit hole.  That being said, I have already started mapping out a "Deckard Two-Voice" on Modulargrid.com...   ::)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: jg666 on September 30, 2020, 11:44:12 PM
Congrats to you both, I'm envious :)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on October 01, 2020, 12:26:03 AM
That's gonna be a sweet combination.  I, for one, am hoping that this DOESN'T lead me down the EuroCrack rabbit hole.  That being said, I have already started mapping out a "Deckard Two-Voice" on Modulargrid.com...   ::)

It doesn't necessarily have to lead down the EuroCrack rabbit hole, something I'm not really interested in either. The Matriarch is pretty powerful within itself, as there are plenty of patching options you can explore before moving on to the next level if needed.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on October 01, 2020, 09:40:33 AM
There you go:

https://youtu.be/1acVKBsctrw
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: jg666 on October 01, 2020, 10:16:16 AM
Woohoo, excellent :) Thanks for the heads up.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on October 01, 2020, 10:16:50 AM
There you go:

https://youtu.be/1acVKBsctrw

Well, at least now I know what my next purchase will be :)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: proteus-ix on October 01, 2020, 10:27:58 AM
There you go:

https://youtu.be/1acVKBsctrw

Can't find anything about price for the 5 or 10 voice...
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: jg666 on October 01, 2020, 10:33:22 AM
Prices are listed on this article towards the bottom

https://sonicstate.com/news/2020/10/01/sequential-re-introduce-the-prophet-5/

Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: proteus-ix on October 01, 2020, 10:39:14 AM
Prices are listed on this article towards the bottom

https://sonicstate.com/news/2020/10/01/sequential-re-introduce-the-prophet-5/

Thanks.  Out of my range but seems a fair price for what it is.  Fingers crossed I can afford one on the 2nd hand market in a few years.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on October 01, 2020, 10:40:30 AM
Today, Shaw is tearing out his hair and his whiskers.  Poor Shaw, with that Matriarch.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: jok3r on October 01, 2020, 11:16:45 AM
That's exactly what I didn't hope for... so I don't regret my preorder of the PolyBrute.

Did not legend say, Dave would never ever do such a recreation?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on October 01, 2020, 11:26:05 AM
That's exactly what I didn't hope for... so I don't regret my preorder of the PolyBrute.

Did not legend say, Dave would never ever do such a recreation?

Dave said that himself so many times. 

The P-5/P-10 is a wonderful and exciting announcement, but it need not change anybody's well thought-out plans.  If a Polybrute was right for you yesterday, it's still right for you today.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on October 01, 2020, 11:30:19 AM
Can't find anything about price for the 5 or 10 voice...

At Sweetwater:

- Prophet-5: $3,500
- Prophet-10: $4,300

Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: jok3r on October 01, 2020, 11:34:56 AM
If a Polybrute was right for you yesterday, it's still right for you today.

That was not so obvious for me... my kind of luck is that everytime I'm buying something, somebody else comes around the corner with something I want to have much more. This is the first time, that the later anouncment really does not make me regret something.

Besides that I have no need for this Prophet-5/10, I have to admit, that it looks absolutely beautiful (well, like the original did). I like synth that have housings consisting of a lot of wood... not only the side ends.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on October 01, 2020, 11:58:12 AM
Today, Shaw is tearing out his hair and his whiskers.  Poor Shaw, with that Matriarch.


Nah... I adore the Matriarch.


Like everyone else, of course I want one... but trying to figure out if I need one -- or even if I have room for one... My current line-up of analogue synths -- OB-6, Moog One, and Matriarch.   None of which I want to part with.  And I have 3 digital synths... but I just don't have room for one more synth.  Space limitations are a real thing.  Something would need to go.


I could perhaps see myself selling my Prophet 12 to make room for a Prophet 10.   
I do wish it were bi-timbral, but I understand why it isn't.


At any rate... no... the Matriarch is here to stay.  But Kudos to Dave and team on this one.  This is a huge announcement, and I know he is proud.  He should be.  Can't wait to hear more demos of this thing.


@Lobo, you've pre-ordered, right?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on October 01, 2020, 12:22:12 PM
Today, Shaw is tearing out his hair and his whiskers.  Poor Shaw, with that Matriarch.


I could perhaps see myself selling my Prophet 12 to make room for a Prophet 10.   
I do wish it were bi-timbral, but I understand why it isn't.


@Lobo, you've pre-ordered, right?

No. It’s one of those things I’m trying to take a step back and go look at from a practical perspective. Much like the Moog Model D reissue. Almost everyone I know who got one admits that they got it as a nostalgic ego trip....which is fine....but also said if they could do it over again, it wasn’t a practical purchase as it was missing a lot of features that they were accustomed to from the Sub 37 and Voyager etc. If I sell my Prophet 6 and get a Prophet 5, I now have to get an external sequencer, external effects, I decrease the number of patches, etc...so what am I gaining from it other than a nostalgic ego trip?

It absolutely kills me the Prophet 10 isn’t bi timbral. I understand it’s based on the single keyboard version but damn...like it was so close...ugh it’s heartbreaking.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on October 01, 2020, 12:44:37 PM
That's exactly what I didn't hope for... so I don't regret my preorder of the PolyBrute.

Did not legend say, Dave would never ever do such a recreation?

Dave said that himself so many times. 

The P-5/P-10 is a wonderful and exciting announcement, but it need not change anybody's well thought-out plans.  If a Polybrute was right for you yesterday, it's still right for you today.

I honestly didn't think Dave would do a P5 reissue either, which is why the news surprised me (in a good way). 
My reason to believe this wasn't what Dave had said on this particular topic; rather, it was that I've observed Dave enough that I'm aware of the things he likes to avoid, and I think that the inevitable comparison videos which split hairs over the minor differences in sound between the reissue and older synths are something he's not looking forward to.   I believe the "vintage" knob is there for this very reason -- as was his comments about using existing P5s they gathered up for reference with none of them sounding quite the same.

So, while it was the last synth I expected to see announced, I still plan to buy one after the bugs have been worked out.

Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: chysn on October 01, 2020, 03:52:39 PM
The P-5/P-10 is a wonderful and exciting announcement, but it need not change anybody's well thought-out plans.  If a Polybrute was right for you yesterday, it's still right for you today.

Wise words, and the idea applies to me with respect to Pro-3. The announcement certainly gave me pause, though, for a few minutes. The price isn’t too bad.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on October 01, 2020, 05:29:39 PM
I don't mean to increase your pain, Chysn, but imagine a Pro-3 SE sitting atop a brand new Prophet-5/10.  Oh, all that glorious wood!  Who needs living room furniture when you've got two such instruments?  The guests can sit on drummer's thrones.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: chysn on October 01, 2020, 05:45:47 PM
I don't mean to increase your pain, Chysn, but imagine a Pro-3 SE sitting atop a brand new Prophet-5/10.  Oh, all that glorious wood!  Who needs living room furniture when you've got two such instruments?  The guests can sit on drummer's thrones.

Maybe someday, after all the kids are out of the house.

I was sort of annoyed that Sequential wasn't putting up Facebook teaser images like they used to. But there's probably not a single part of the Prophet 5 that they could have shown that wouldn't have immediately given it away.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on October 01, 2020, 07:12:56 PM
After the Prophet-6, the Prophet '08 Rev2, and now the Prophets 5/10 Rev4, there's one direction for Sequential to head: the Poly Evolver Keyboard Rev2.  Please!  No more of the "Dave doesn't do re-issues" claim.  Like bananas he doesn't!  Yes, it's time for the great blue monster to be revived.  Just look at this beauty:

Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on October 01, 2020, 09:34:10 PM
It does kind of pose the question “Now what?” When it comes to Sequential synths. I guess...as much as I hate to say it....their monster VCO synth. So....now what? This is obviously a special nostalgic trip for a lot of us but I can’t help but think the next new (actually new ;) )Sequential synth is going to be something new and exciting.

It is quite amazing seeing the reactions with the P5 reissue though. Sometimes depressingly so. Something I found is that musicians who can’t afford luxury instruments are sometimes the most bitter, vocal and entitled people out there. If I see another post saying “Rich assholes and their stupid expensive synths...why can’t they make them in China. Music is for everyone! Egomaniacs! I deserve those synths!” I honestly have never seen guys like James Drone, Synthmania or Tim Shoebridge or whoever be combative towards people who purchase more economical products so I never understood why musicians who have the privilege of owning expensive gear suddenly become the target of aggression from those less fortunate. It’s one thing to be envious, it’s entirely another to be actively insulting towards other people simply because they have something you don’t.

Sorry for the rant it just bothers me when I read that stuff.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on October 01, 2020, 10:06:31 PM
It is quite amazing seeing the reactions with the P5 reissue though. Sometimes depressingly so. Something I found is that musicians who can’t afford luxury instruments are sometimes the most bitter, vocal and entitled people out there. If I see another post saying “Rich assholes and their stupid expensive synths...why can’t they make them in China. Music is for everyone! Egomaniacs! I deserve those synths!” I honestly have never seen guys like James Drone, Synthmania or Tim Shoebridge or whoever be combative towards people who purchase more economical products so I never understood why musicians who have the privilege of owning expensive gear suddenly become the target of aggression from those less fortunate. It’s one thing to be envious, it’s entirely another to be actively insulting towards other people simply because they have something you don’t.

Isn't that what Behringer tapped into?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: CoffeePockets on October 01, 2020, 10:11:46 PM
Also just occurred to me. Oberheim has been filing patents/trademarks lately sooooo would it be too much to hope that we may see a new OB-8?
Fingers crossed for another awesome thing I’m too poor to buy! Haha
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on October 01, 2020, 10:19:49 PM
Also just occurred to me. Oberheim has been filing patents/trademarks lately sooooo would it be too much to hope that we may see a new OB-8?
Fingers crossed for another awesome thing I’m too poor to buy! Haha

Nope Gibson screwed Tom Oberheim over. It didn’t make a lot of press but that “gesture of goodwill” giving Tom the Oberheim brand back was banana oil. Behringer already trademarked it so Gibson gave Tom a brand name they didn’t even own as a PR stunt. I honestly think Tom is done making anything sadly.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: CoffeePockets on October 01, 2020, 10:21:53 PM
Also just occurred to me. Oberheim has been filing patents/trademarks lately sooooo would it be too much to hope that we may see a new OB-8?
Fingers crossed for another awesome thing I’m too poor to buy! Haha

Nope Gibson screwed Tom Oberheim over. It didn’t make a lot of press but that “gesture of goodwill” giving Tom the Oberheim brand back was banana oil. Behringer already trademarked it so Gibson gave Tom a brand name they didn’t even own as a PR stunt. I honestly think Tom is done making anything sadly.
Well I find that simply unacceptable!
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on October 01, 2020, 10:27:56 PM
It is quite amazing seeing the reactions with the P5 reissue though. Sometimes depressingly so. Something I found is that musicians who can’t afford luxury instruments are sometimes the most bitter, vocal and entitled people out there. If I see another post saying “Rich assholes and their stupid expensive synths...why can’t they make them in China. Music is for everyone! Egomaniacs! I deserve those synths!” I honestly have never seen guys like James Drone, Synthmania or Tim Shoebridge or whoever be combative towards people who purchase more economical products so I never understood why musicians who have the privilege of owning expensive gear suddenly become the target of aggression from those less fortunate. It’s one thing to be envious, it’s entirely another to be actively insulting towards other people simply because they have something you don’t.

Isn't that what Behringer tapped into?

Sadly. They’ve given a measuring stick to the entitled.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on October 01, 2020, 10:32:19 PM
Also just occurred to me. Oberheim has been filing patents/trademarks lately sooooo would it be too much to hope that we may see a new OB-8?
Fingers crossed for another awesome thing I’m too poor to buy! Haha

Nope Gibson screwed Tom Oberheim over. It didn’t make a lot of press but that “gesture of goodwill” giving Tom the Oberheim brand back was banana oil. Behringer already trademarked it so Gibson gave Tom a brand name they didn’t even own as a PR stunt. I honestly think Tom is done making anything sadly.
Well I find that simply unacceptable!

Hence why I refuse to buy Gibson or if I do I’ll put a sticker over the name.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on October 01, 2020, 10:33:45 PM
After the Prophet-6, the Prophet '08 Rev2, and now the Prophets 5/10 Rev4, there's one direction for Sequential to head: the Poly Evolver Keyboard Rev2.  Please!  No more of the "Dave doesn't do re-issues" claim.  Like bananas he doesn't!  Yes, it's time for the great blue monster to be revived.  Just look at this beauty:

Ehh I wouldn’t want a straight reissue of a Poly Evolver...Id want the next step.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: CoffeePockets on October 01, 2020, 10:38:18 PM
Also just occurred to me. Oberheim has been filing patents/trademarks lately sooooo would it be too much to hope that we may see a new OB-8?
Fingers crossed for another awesome thing I’m too poor to buy! Haha

Nope Gibson screwed Tom Oberheim over. It didn’t make a lot of press but that “gesture of goodwill” giving Tom the Oberheim brand back was banana oil. Behringer already trademarked it so Gibson gave Tom a brand name they didn’t even own as a PR stunt. I honestly think Tom is done making anything sadly.
Well I find that simply unacceptable!

Hence why I refuse to buy Gibson or if I do I’ll put a sticker over the name.
I’m really just a guitarist, my synth stuff is just for fun, and my brand loyalty is far and away “Gibson USA” so I’ll exercise my dissatisfaction by continuing to not support Behringer
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on October 01, 2020, 10:40:28 PM
Also just occurred to me. Oberheim has been filing patents/trademarks lately sooooo would it be too much to hope that we may see a new OB-8?
Fingers crossed for another awesome thing I’m too poor to buy! Haha

Nope Gibson screwed Tom Oberheim over. It didn’t make a lot of press but that “gesture of goodwill” giving Tom the Oberheim brand back was banana oil. Behringer already trademarked it so Gibson gave Tom a brand name they didn’t even own as a PR stunt. I honestly think Tom is done making anything sadly.
Well I find that simply unacceptable!

Hence why I refuse to buy Gibson or if I do I’ll put a sticker over the name.
I’m really just a guitarist, my synth stuff is just for fun, and my brand loyalty is far and away “Gibson USA” so I’ll exercise my dissatisfaction by continuing to not support Behringer

I’ll stick with my BC Rich.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on October 02, 2020, 05:53:26 AM
I cleaned up this thread a bit. Please discuss the new Prophet-5/10 over here: https://forum.sequential.com/index.php/topic,4668.0.html

And now back to speculation  ;)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on October 02, 2020, 06:24:36 AM
Also just occurred to me. Oberheim has been filing patents/trademarks lately sooooo would it be too much to hope that we may see a new OB-8?
Fingers crossed for another awesome thing I’m too poor to buy! Haha

Nope Gibson screwed Tom Oberheim over. It didn’t make a lot of press but that “gesture of goodwill” giving Tom the Oberheim brand back was banana oil. Behringer already trademarked it so Gibson gave Tom a brand name they didn’t even own as a PR stunt. I honestly think Tom is done making anything sadly.

But he just trademarked "OB-Xa" a few weeks back.  Why couldn't he release one in a collab with Dave like the OB-6?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on October 02, 2020, 06:32:28 PM
Also just occurred to me. Oberheim has been filing patents/trademarks lately sooooo would it be too much to hope that we may see a new OB-8?
Fingers crossed for another awesome thing I’m too poor to buy! Haha

Nope Gibson screwed Tom Oberheim over. It didn’t make a lot of press but that “gesture of goodwill” giving Tom the Oberheim brand back was banana oil. Behringer already trademarked it so Gibson gave Tom a brand name they didn’t even own as a PR stunt. I honestly think Tom is done making anything sadly.

But he just trademarked "OB-Xa" a few weeks back.  Why couldn't he release one in a collab with Dave like the OB-6?

That’s my fear. Do we really need another reissue?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: megamarkd on October 02, 2020, 07:20:18 PM
After the Prophet-6, the Prophet '08 Rev2, and now the Prophets 5/10 Rev4, there's one direction for Sequential to head: the Poly Evolver Keyboard Rev2.  Please!  No more of the "Dave doesn't do re-issues" claim.  Like bananas he doesn't!  Yes, it's time for the great blue monster to be revived.  Just look at this beauty:

Ehh I wouldn’t want a straight reissue of a Poly Evolver...Id want the next step.

Ditto.  The Pro 3 really does seem like a spiritual successor to the Evlover and I was hoping that a Pro 3 six or eight voice was coming next :'(
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on October 02, 2020, 08:07:30 PM
Also just occurred to me. Oberheim has been filing patents/trademarks lately sooooo would it be too much to hope that we may see a new OB-8?
Fingers crossed for another awesome thing I’m too poor to buy! Haha

Nope Gibson screwed Tom Oberheim over. It didn’t make a lot of press but that “gesture of goodwill” giving Tom the Oberheim brand back was banana oil. Behringer already trademarked it so Gibson gave Tom a brand name they didn’t even own as a PR stunt. I honestly think Tom is done making anything sadly.

But he just trademarked "OB-Xa" a few weeks back.  Why couldn't he release one in a collab with Dave like the OB-6?

That’s my fear. Do we really need another reissue?

If I can get a true reissue, with warranty, for a third of what the repair-risk original is going for then I say hell yes, bring me as many as I can afford and have space for.  I won't be able buy all of them probably, but a Prophet-5 and OB-X reissue?   If it took 40 years to get something comparable, what are these new re-issue synths going to be worth 3 decades from now?

An ARP 2600 is something I don't see myself buying...  because I don't think the sound itself brought as much to the music scene as all of the weird creative things that were done with it thanks to the drugs of the 70's :)... it might be a great synth but it's not getting my dollars.

Back to your original point though, you said you don't think there will be any more Oberheims, but then you said you're worried there will be.   Not needling you here, I'm genuinely interested in your position on this.  Can you clarify what you think will realistically happen and why and constrast it for what you would like (or not like) to happen and why?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: A Thousand Eyes on October 02, 2020, 08:30:06 PM
Ol' Lobo put down on a Two-Voice Pro and let's just say it did not go down well. Surprising to see his 180 shift on reissues though...
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on October 02, 2020, 08:49:50 PM
Ol' Lobo put down on a Two-Voice Pro and let's just say it did not go down well. Surprising to see his 180 shift on reissues though...
Ouch!!!!  Bringing up old wounds.....
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on October 02, 2020, 09:28:07 PM
Ol' Lobo put down on a Two-Voice Pro and let's just say it did not go down well. Surprising to see his 180 shift on reissues though...

I’m still considering getting a second hand one. Lol cause Tom isn’t going to do anything new.

In terms of reissues my lust for older synths getting reissued was for them to be improved and have new features added. Not a point to point remake with midi. I wouldn’t want a PolyMoog reissue. I want a PolyMoog for 2020...and the Moog One ain’t it. I don’t want a DX7 reissue....I want a DX7 for 2020 with a hands on interface. Not saying the P5 is reissue is that way but I was looking at all the instruments Sequential released over the years and it just seemed to be constantly improving and evolving. So it would be odd to take a step backwards. Especially when it’s not exactly what I would want to have. Don’t get me wrong the new P5 sounds INCREDIBLE but could the P6 sound just as good if tweaked properly?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on October 02, 2020, 10:03:02 PM
Also just occurred to me. Oberheim has been filing patents/trademarks lately sooooo would it be too much to hope that we may see a new OB-8?
Fingers crossed for another awesome thing I’m too poor to buy! Haha

Nope Gibson screwed Tom Oberheim over. It didn’t make a lot of press but that “gesture of goodwill” giving Tom the Oberheim brand back was banana oil. Behringer already trademarked it so Gibson gave Tom a brand name they didn’t even own as a PR stunt. I honestly think Tom is done making anything sadly.

But he just trademarked "OB-Xa" a few weeks back.  Why couldn't he release one in a collab with Dave like the OB-6?

That’s my fear. Do we really need another reissue?

If I can get a true reissue, with warranty, for a third of what the repair-risk original is going for then I say hell yes, bring me as many as I can afford and have space for.  I won't be able buy all of them probably, but a Prophet-5 and OB-X reissue?   If it took 40 years to get something comparable, what are these new re-issue synths going to be worth 3 decades from now?

An ARP 2600 is something I don't see myself buying...  because I don't think the sound itself brought as much to the music scene as all of the weird creative things that were done with it thanks to the drugs of the 70's :)... it might be a great synth but it's not getting my dollars.

Back to your original point though, you said you don't think there will be any more Oberheims, but then you said you're worried there will be.   Not needling you here, I'm genuinely interested in your position on this.  Can you clarify what you think will realistically happen and why and constrast it for what you would like (or not like) to happen and why?

I’m not going to get into the Oberheim situation with myself here. My original post was removed and honestly the situation was a headache for both parties involved. If you wish to know more you can DM me.

The reason I don’t want to see an Oberheim OBX reissue or even OBXa reissue is because if you look at the history of Sequential’s instruments it’s constantly improving and evolving. From the Prophet 5 to the Prophet 10 to the Prophet T8 it just keeps moving forward...I don’t want to see them suddenly start reissuing classics for the sake of it. As heartwarming as it is it doesn’t move things forward.

Let me put it this way....as much as I would love a reissue of the Prophet 10 in its double keyboard form.....I’d rather see a double keyboard version with two Prophet 6 engines.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on October 03, 2020, 04:52:26 AM
Also just occurred to me. Oberheim has been filing patents/trademarks lately sooooo would it be too much to hope that we may see a new OB-8?
Fingers crossed for another awesome thing I’m too poor to buy! Haha

Nope Gibson screwed Tom Oberheim over. It didn’t make a lot of press but that “gesture of goodwill” giving Tom the Oberheim brand back was banana oil. Behringer already trademarked it so Gibson gave Tom a brand name they didn’t even own as a PR stunt. I honestly think Tom is done making anything sadly.

But he just trademarked "OB-Xa" a few weeks back.  Why couldn't he release one in a collab with Dave like the OB-6?

That’s my fear. Do we really need another reissue?

If I can get a true reissue, with warranty, for a third of what the repair-risk original is going for then I say hell yes, bring me as many as I can afford and have space for.  I won't be able buy all of them probably, but a Prophet-5 and OB-X reissue?   If it took 40 years to get something comparable, what are these new re-issue synths going to be worth 3 decades from now?

An ARP 2600 is something I don't see myself buying...  because I don't think the sound itself brought as much to the music scene as all of the weird creative things that were done with it thanks to the drugs of the 70's :)... it might be a great synth but it's not getting my dollars.

Back to your original point though, you said you don't think there will be any more Oberheims, but then you said you're worried there will be.   Not needling you here, I'm genuinely interested in your position on this.  Can you clarify what you think will realistically happen and why and constrast it for what you would like (or not like) to happen and why?

I’m not going to get into the Oberheim situation with myself here. My original post was removed and honestly the situation was a headache for both parties involved. If you wish to know more you can DM me.

The reason I don’t want to see an Oberheim OBX reissue or even OBXa reissue is because if you look at the history of Sequential’s instruments it’s constantly improving and evolving. From the Prophet 5 to the Prophet 10 to the Prophet T8 it just keeps moving forward...I don’t want to see them suddenly start reissuing classics for the sake of it. As heartwarming as it is it doesn’t move things forward.

Let me put it this way....as much as I would love a reissue of the Prophet 10 in its double keyboard form.....I’d rather see a double keyboard version with two Prophet 6 engines.

PM'd you on the Obie story.

Also, thanks for clarification.  I can definitely understand each of us having an interest in where Sequential is going next... they are a small company and focus in one area takes away from focus in other. 

But I have to say, for those wanting an evolution of the Prophet-5, the Prophet-6 is already that, and since you own one, you know what a special instrument it really is.   So as I see it, Dave has already moved things forward in the analog poly space, but realized there is an increasing market for the sound of vintage gear, and is addressing that market in addition to the advancements that have already been made. 

Some could say the increase in popularity of synthwave itself (which is driving a lot of the demand for analog) is in some ways "going backwards"...  but others who enjoy retro-inspired synth music are saying "thank god that good music is happening again" because it was something tragically knocked off the map for so many decades.

A LOT of people have dreamed of owning a P5 for its signature sound but couldn't justify it.  For that crowd, the ability to switch filter types (Rev 1/2 or 3) and have the option of aftertouch and velocity are huge advancements.  But like music itself, what's desirable in an instrument is always subjective, and pleasing everyone is an impossible goal (and a goal that I hope Dave never tries to pursue, because then such a small company really would lose their focus).

Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on October 03, 2020, 02:05:00 PM
Tom Oberheim is obviously a dear friend of Dave, and of the guys at Sequential, so anything said about him here will be scrutinized.  I'm sure they also have the highest respect and admiration for his achievements in the synthesizer domain, and rightly so.  They're also protective of him.  I'd say, leave Tom out of the discussions altogether, and just talk about the instruments.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on October 03, 2020, 02:13:54 PM
Tom Oberheim is obviously a dear friend of Dave, and of the guys at Sequential, so anything said about him here will be scrutinized.  I'm sure they also have the highest respect and admiration for his achievements in the synthesizer domain, and rightly so.  I'd say, leave him out of the discussions altogether, and just talk about the instruments.

I agree. That's why I don't talk about what happened publicly anymore. I got enough hate mail last time ;)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on October 03, 2020, 02:17:03 PM
Yes, I remember the video.  Having a public forum is a dangerous and complicated thing.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on October 03, 2020, 02:39:36 PM
Yes, I remember the video.  Having a public forum is a dangerous and complicated thing.

I will say though, it did end on a nice note. Tom apparently called around to see if anyone had any Two Voice Pros in stock and he would personlize it for me. Perfect Circuit Audio contacted me about it....but it was black (I had ordered white), it was a floor model with some wear and tear on it and it was also more expensive than the order I initially placed when it was all said and done. I politely declined. Even if the outcome wasn't ideal I do appreciate that he reached out to try and remedy the situation. It's just sad it took a public spectacle to get to that point.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on October 03, 2020, 02:53:15 PM
Also just occurred to me. Oberheim has been filing patents/trademarks lately sooooo would it be too much to hope that we may see a new OB-8?
Fingers crossed for another awesome thing I’m too poor to buy! Haha

Nope Gibson screwed Tom Oberheim over. It didn’t make a lot of press but that “gesture of goodwill” giving Tom the Oberheim brand back was banana oil. Behringer already trademarked it so Gibson gave Tom a brand name they didn’t even own as a PR stunt. I honestly think Tom is done making anything sadly.

But he just trademarked "OB-Xa" a few weeks back.  Why couldn't he release one in a collab with Dave like the OB-6?

That’s my fear. Do we really need another reissue?

If I can get a true reissue, with warranty, for a third of what the repair-risk original is going for then I say hell yes, bring me as many as I can afford and have space for.  I won't be able buy all of them probably, but a Prophet-5 and OB-X reissue?   If it took 40 years to get something comparable, what are these new re-issue synths going to be worth 3 decades from now?

An ARP 2600 is something I don't see myself buying...  because I don't think the sound itself brought as much to the music scene as all of the weird creative things that were done with it thanks to the drugs of the 70's :)... it might be a great synth but it's not getting my dollars.

Back to your original point though, you said you don't think there will be any more Oberheims, but then you said you're worried there will be.   Not needling you here, I'm genuinely interested in your position on this.  Can you clarify what you think will realistically happen and why and constrast it for what you would like (or not like) to happen and why?

I’m not going to get into the Oberheim situation with myself here. My original post was removed and honestly the situation was a headache for both parties involved. If you wish to know more you can DM me.

The reason I don’t want to see an Oberheim OBX reissue or even OBXa reissue is because if you look at the history of Sequential’s instruments it’s constantly improving and evolving. From the Prophet 5 to the Prophet 10 to the Prophet T8 it just keeps moving forward...I don’t want to see them suddenly start reissuing classics for the sake of it. As heartwarming as it is it doesn’t move things forward.

Let me put it this way....as much as I would love a reissue of the Prophet 10 in its double keyboard form.....I’d rather see a double keyboard version with two Prophet 6 engines.

PM'd you on the Obie story.

Also, thanks for clarification.  I can definitely understand each of us having an interest in where Sequential is going next... they are a small company and focus in one area takes away from focus in other. 

But I have to say, for those wanting an evolution of the Prophet-5, the Prophet-6 is already that, and since you own one, you know what a special instrument it really is.   So as I see it, Dave has already moved things forward in the analog poly space, but realized there is an increasing market for the sound of vintage gear, and is addressing that market in addition to the advancements that have already been made. 

Some could say the increase in popularity of synthwave itself (which is driving a lot of the demand for analog) is in some ways "going backwards"...  but others who enjoy retro-inspired synth music are saying "thank god that good music is happening again" because it was something tragically knocked off the map for so many decades.

A LOT of people have dreamed of owning a P5 for its signature sound but couldn't justify it.  For that crowd, the ability to switch filter types (Rev 1/2 or 3) and have the option of aftertouch and velocity are huge advancements.  But like music itself, what's desirable in an instrument is always subjective, and pleasing everyone is an impossible goal (and a goal that I hope Dave never tries to pursue, because then such a small company really would lose their focus).

I think my mindset is....it's absolutely fantastic that Dave managed to get the exact circuits and chips and architecture of the original Prophet 5 back...it's great........but could that engine and architecture not be...expanded on? Would it really have be detrimental to add a Poly Sequencer (Which was an accompanying piece to the original Prophet 5 anyway) or make the Prophet 10 bi timbral? The Moog One already jumped the shark...people are paying almost $10K for that thing....why not take the Prophet 5 and say "We have the exact same parts so it is a Prophet 5....but we figured we'd add some treats for you guys. We will include an arpeggiator and poly sequencer on board. For the Prophet 10....we figured 10 voices is awesome...but what would be even better is if you could split those voices and stack them....so instead of just having more polyphony...we added two Prophet 5 engines and made it bi timbral. Would it be more expensive? Sure but it would at least feel new....Like the Prophet REV2 of the Prophet 08....so much was added and improved upon...it felt like a successor. It felt it earned the title of the REV2. Don't get me wrong, the multiple filters is fantastic....and so is the "Vintage Knob".....but I'm just not sure it's really a REV 4 if you get my drift.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on October 03, 2020, 03:15:53 PM
Also just occurred to me. Oberheim has been filing patents/trademarks lately sooooo would it be too much to hope that we may see a new OB-8?
Fingers crossed for another awesome thing I’m too poor to buy! Haha

Nope Gibson screwed Tom Oberheim over. It didn’t make a lot of press but that “gesture of goodwill” giving Tom the Oberheim brand back was banana oil. Behringer already trademarked it so Gibson gave Tom a brand name they didn’t even own as a PR stunt. I honestly think Tom is done making anything sadly.

But he just trademarked "OB-Xa" a few weeks back.  Why couldn't he release one in a collab with Dave like the OB-6?

That’s my fear. Do we really need another reissue?

If I can get a true reissue, with warranty, for a third of what the repair-risk original is going for then I say hell yes, bring me as many as I can afford and have space for.  I won't be able buy all of them probably, but a Prophet-5 and OB-X reissue?   If it took 40 years to get something comparable, what are these new re-issue synths going to be worth 3 decades from now?

An ARP 2600 is something I don't see myself buying...  because I don't think the sound itself brought as much to the music scene as all of the weird creative things that were done with it thanks to the drugs of the 70's :)... it might be a great synth but it's not getting my dollars.

Back to your original point though, you said you don't think there will be any more Oberheims, but then you said you're worried there will be.   Not needling you here, I'm genuinely interested in your position on this.  Can you clarify what you think will realistically happen and why and constrast it for what you would like (or not like) to happen and why?

I’m not going to get into the Oberheim situation with myself here. My original post was removed and honestly the situation was a headache for both parties involved. If you wish to know more you can DM me.

The reason I don’t want to see an Oberheim OBX reissue or even OBXa reissue is because if you look at the history of Sequential’s instruments it’s constantly improving and evolving. From the Prophet 5 to the Prophet 10 to the Prophet T8 it just keeps moving forward...I don’t want to see them suddenly start reissuing classics for the sake of it. As heartwarming as it is it doesn’t move things forward.

Let me put it this way....as much as I would love a reissue of the Prophet 10 in its double keyboard form.....I’d rather see a double keyboard version with two Prophet 6 engines.

PM'd you on the Obie story.

Also, thanks for clarification.  I can definitely understand each of us having an interest in where Sequential is going next... they are a small company and focus in one area takes away from focus in other. 

But I have to say, for those wanting an evolution of the Prophet-5, the Prophet-6 is already that, and since you own one, you know what a special instrument it really is.   So as I see it, Dave has already moved things forward in the analog poly space, but realized there is an increasing market for the sound of vintage gear, and is addressing that market in addition to the advancements that have already been made. 

Some could say the increase in popularity of synthwave itself (which is driving a lot of the demand for analog) is in some ways "going backwards"...  but others who enjoy retro-inspired synth music are saying "thank god that good music is happening again" because it was something tragically knocked off the map for so many decades.

A LOT of people have dreamed of owning a P5 for its signature sound but couldn't justify it.  For that crowd, the ability to switch filter types (Rev 1/2 or 3) and have the option of aftertouch and velocity are huge advancements.  But like music itself, what's desirable in an instrument is always subjective, and pleasing everyone is an impossible goal (and a goal that I hope Dave never tries to pursue, because then such a small company really would lose their focus).

I think my mindset is....it's absolutely fantastic that Dave managed to get the exact circuits and chips and architecture of the original Prophet 5 back...it's great........but could that engine and architecture not be...expanded on? Would it really have be detrimental to add a Poly Sequencer (Which was an accompanying piece to the original Prophet 5 anyway) or make the Prophet 10 bi timbral? The Moog One already jumped the shark...people are paying almost $10K for that thing....why not take the Prophet 5 and say "We have the exact same parts so it is a Prophet 5....but we figured we'd add some treats for you guys. We will include an arpeggiator and poly sequencer on board. For the Prophet 10....we figured 10 voices is awesome...but what would be even better is if you could split those voices and stack them....so instead of just having more polyphony...we added two Prophet 5 engines and made it bi timbral. Would it be more expensive? Sure but it would at least feel new....Like the Prophet REV2 of the Prophet 08....so much was added and improved upon...it felt like a successor. It felt it earned the title of the REV2. Don't get me wrong, the multiple filters is fantastic....and so is the "Vintage Knob".....but I'm just not sure it's really a REV 4 if you get my drift.

Oddly, I agree with you on some of this even if we differ on our vision of the ideal solution.   For sequencing and modulation options, I think it would be cool of Dave to release an external companion product that interfaces with the P5/P10 (like some of the after market solutions) that provide a control surface, more LFOs, and sequencing and some stuff the original P5 didn't do at maybe a $500 price point.   Just an optional separate box with knobs and buttons that plugs into the P5/10 via USB with matching wood finish and overall appearance, and some FX options (I know there are some aftermarket solutions that are similar for P6/OB6 but I'm envisioning a bit more).

Bi-timbrality on the P10 would indeed be nice, but if you've ever used a Rev2 for example in multi-mode, you know that sometimes simpler is better.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dmfs on October 03, 2020, 03:52:10 PM
Apologiesfor my enthusiastic rambling but here goes-
I ve just placed an order for a P10. I cant wait. Call me a child of the 80s. All ive ever wanted is a Prophet 5/10 an OB8/XA , a Moog Taurus 1  and a LinnDrum. Ive bought a myriad of synths to get close to those sounds. I have a tempest for the Linndrum, and Taurus 3 for the 1, Prophet 08 , an OB 6 and well you get the idea...The P10 will replace the P08 but I will miss it!
Now if they were to release an updated OBXA, Id get that too. Im not a fan of older instruments as they're often expensive to maintain... and modern synths like the Bass Station 2 and Roland JDXA get me close to more vintage sounds ...But to to own a Prophet 5 reissue? - that's just wonderful and a dream come true for me!! Dave Smith and his team are legends! I hope a truly reissued Oberheim surfaces in the future...in the meantime Ill  just keep playing my OB6 !!
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on October 03, 2020, 03:59:51 PM
Also just occurred to me. Oberheim has been filing patents/trademarks lately sooooo would it be too much to hope that we may see a new OB-8?
Fingers crossed for another awesome thing I’m too poor to buy! Haha

Nope Gibson screwed Tom Oberheim over. It didn’t make a lot of press but that “gesture of goodwill” giving Tom the Oberheim brand back was banana oil. Behringer already trademarked it so Gibson gave Tom a brand name they didn’t even own as a PR stunt. I honestly think Tom is done making anything sadly.

But he just trademarked "OB-Xa" a few weeks back.  Why couldn't he release one in a collab with Dave like the OB-6?

That’s my fear. Do we really need another reissue?

If I can get a true reissue, with warranty, for a third of what the repair-risk original is going for then I say hell yes, bring me as many as I can afford and have space for.  I won't be able buy all of them probably, but a Prophet-5 and OB-X reissue?   If it took 40 years to get something comparable, what are these new re-issue synths going to be worth 3 decades from now?

An ARP 2600 is something I don't see myself buying...  because I don't think the sound itself brought as much to the music scene as all of the weird creative things that were done with it thanks to the drugs of the 70's :)... it might be a great synth but it's not getting my dollars.

Back to your original point though, you said you don't think there will be any more Oberheims, but then you said you're worried there will be.   Not needling you here, I'm genuinely interested in your position on this.  Can you clarify what you think will realistically happen and why and constrast it for what you would like (or not like) to happen and why?

I’m not going to get into the Oberheim situation with myself here. My original post was removed and honestly the situation was a headache for both parties involved. If you wish to know more you can DM me.

The reason I don’t want to see an Oberheim OBX reissue or even OBXa reissue is because if you look at the history of Sequential’s instruments it’s constantly improving and evolving. From the Prophet 5 to the Prophet 10 to the Prophet T8 it just keeps moving forward...I don’t want to see them suddenly start reissuing classics for the sake of it. As heartwarming as it is it doesn’t move things forward.

Let me put it this way....as much as I would love a reissue of the Prophet 10 in its double keyboard form.....I’d rather see a double keyboard version with two Prophet 6 engines.

PM'd you on the Obie story.

Also, thanks for clarification.  I can definitely understand each of us having an interest in where Sequential is going next... they are a small company and focus in one area takes away from focus in other. 

But I have to say, for those wanting an evolution of the Prophet-5, the Prophet-6 is already that, and since you own one, you know what a special instrument it really is.   So as I see it, Dave has already moved things forward in the analog poly space, but realized there is an increasing market for the sound of vintage gear, and is addressing that market in addition to the advancements that have already been made. 

Some could say the increase in popularity of synthwave itself (which is driving a lot of the demand for analog) is in some ways "going backwards"...  but others who enjoy retro-inspired synth music are saying "thank god that good music is happening again" because it was something tragically knocked off the map for so many decades.

A LOT of people have dreamed of owning a P5 for its signature sound but couldn't justify it.  For that crowd, the ability to switch filter types (Rev 1/2 or 3) and have the option of aftertouch and velocity are huge advancements.  But like music itself, what's desirable in an instrument is always subjective, and pleasing everyone is an impossible goal (and a goal that I hope Dave never tries to pursue, because then such a small company really would lose their focus).

I think my mindset is....it's absolutely fantastic that Dave managed to get the exact circuits and chips and architecture of the original Prophet 5 back...it's great........but could that engine and architecture not be...expanded on? Would it really have be detrimental to add a Poly Sequencer (Which was an accompanying piece to the original Prophet 5 anyway) or make the Prophet 10 bi timbral? The Moog One already jumped the shark...people are paying almost $10K for that thing....why not take the Prophet 5 and say "We have the exact same parts so it is a Prophet 5....but we figured we'd add some treats for you guys. We will include an arpeggiator and poly sequencer on board. For the Prophet 10....we figured 10 voices is awesome...but what would be even better is if you could split those voices and stack them....so instead of just having more polyphony...we added two Prophet 5 engines and made it bi timbral. Would it be more expensive? Sure but it would at least feel new....Like the Prophet REV2 of the Prophet 08....so much was added and improved upon...it felt like a successor. It felt it earned the title of the REV2. Don't get me wrong, the multiple filters is fantastic....and so is the "Vintage Knob".....but I'm just not sure it's really a REV 4 if you get my drift.

Oddly, I agree with you on some of this even if we differ on our vision of the ideal solution.   For sequencing and modulation options, I think it would be cool of Dave to release an external companion product that interfaces with the P5/P10 (like some of the after market solutions) that provide a control surface, more LFOs, and sequencing and some stuff the original P5 didn't do at maybe a $500 price point.   Just an optional separate box with knobs and buttons that plugs into the P5/10 via USB with matching wood finish and overall appearance, and some FX options (I know there are some aftermarket solutions that are similar for P6/OB6 but I'm envisioning a bit more).

Bi-timbrality on the P10 would indeed be nice, but if you've ever used a Rev2 for example in multi-mode, you know that sometimes simpler is better.

I’ve used multimode on the Prophet X. Never had an issue.

Bi timbrality does need to be complicated on pure analog gear. Jupiter 8, OBXa, Prophet T8. If anything a bi timbral Prophet 10 might be easier to manage than a Prophet REV2.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on October 03, 2020, 04:26:03 PM
Also just occurred to me. Oberheim has been filing patents/trademarks lately sooooo would it be too much to hope that we may see a new OB-8?
Fingers crossed for another awesome thing I’m too poor to buy! Haha

Nope Gibson screwed Tom Oberheim over. It didn’t make a lot of press but that “gesture of goodwill” giving Tom the Oberheim brand back was banana oil. Behringer already trademarked it so Gibson gave Tom a brand name they didn’t even own as a PR stunt. I honestly think Tom is done making anything sadly.

But he just trademarked "OB-Xa" a few weeks back.  Why couldn't he release one in a collab with Dave like the OB-6?

That’s my fear. Do we really need another reissue?

If I can get a true reissue, with warranty, for a third of what the repair-risk original is going for then I say hell yes, bring me as many as I can afford and have space for.  I won't be able buy all of them probably, but a Prophet-5 and OB-X reissue?   If it took 40 years to get something comparable, what are these new re-issue synths going to be worth 3 decades from now?

An ARP 2600 is something I don't see myself buying...  because I don't think the sound itself brought as much to the music scene as all of the weird creative things that were done with it thanks to the drugs of the 70's :)... it might be a great synth but it's not getting my dollars.

Back to your original point though, you said you don't think there will be any more Oberheims, but then you said you're worried there will be.   Not needling you here, I'm genuinely interested in your position on this.  Can you clarify what you think will realistically happen and why and constrast it for what you would like (or not like) to happen and why?

I’m not going to get into the Oberheim situation with myself here. My original post was removed and honestly the situation was a headache for both parties involved. If you wish to know more you can DM me.

The reason I don’t want to see an Oberheim OBX reissue or even OBXa reissue is because if you look at the history of Sequential’s instruments it’s constantly improving and evolving. From the Prophet 5 to the Prophet 10 to the Prophet T8 it just keeps moving forward...I don’t want to see them suddenly start reissuing classics for the sake of it. As heartwarming as it is it doesn’t move things forward.

Let me put it this way....as much as I would love a reissue of the Prophet 10 in its double keyboard form.....I’d rather see a double keyboard version with two Prophet 6 engines.

PM'd you on the Obie story.

Also, thanks for clarification.  I can definitely understand each of us having an interest in where Sequential is going next... they are a small company and focus in one area takes away from focus in other. 

But I have to say, for those wanting an evolution of the Prophet-5, the Prophet-6 is already that, and since you own one, you know what a special instrument it really is.   So as I see it, Dave has already moved things forward in the analog poly space, but realized there is an increasing market for the sound of vintage gear, and is addressing that market in addition to the advancements that have already been made. 

Some could say the increase in popularity of synthwave itself (which is driving a lot of the demand for analog) is in some ways "going backwards"...  but others who enjoy retro-inspired synth music are saying "thank god that good music is happening again" because it was something tragically knocked off the map for so many decades.

A LOT of people have dreamed of owning a P5 for its signature sound but couldn't justify it.  For that crowd, the ability to switch filter types (Rev 1/2 or 3) and have the option of aftertouch and velocity are huge advancements.  But like music itself, what's desirable in an instrument is always subjective, and pleasing everyone is an impossible goal (and a goal that I hope Dave never tries to pursue, because then such a small company really would lose their focus).

I think my mindset is....it's absolutely fantastic that Dave managed to get the exact circuits and chips and architecture of the original Prophet 5 back...it's great........but could that engine and architecture not be...expanded on? Would it really have be detrimental to add a Poly Sequencer (Which was an accompanying piece to the original Prophet 5 anyway) or make the Prophet 10 bi timbral? The Moog One already jumped the shark...people are paying almost $10K for that thing....why not take the Prophet 5 and say "We have the exact same parts so it is a Prophet 5....but we figured we'd add some treats for you guys. We will include an arpeggiator and poly sequencer on board. For the Prophet 10....we figured 10 voices is awesome...but what would be even better is if you could split those voices and stack them....so instead of just having more polyphony...we added two Prophet 5 engines and made it bi timbral. Would it be more expensive? Sure but it would at least feel new....Like the Prophet REV2 of the Prophet 08....so much was added and improved upon...it felt like a successor. It felt it earned the title of the REV2. Don't get me wrong, the multiple filters is fantastic....and so is the "Vintage Knob".....but I'm just not sure it's really a REV 4 if you get my drift.

Oddly, I agree with you on some of this even if we differ on our vision of the ideal solution.   For sequencing and modulation options, I think it would be cool of Dave to release an external companion product that interfaces with the P5/P10 (like some of the after market solutions) that provide a control surface, more LFOs, and sequencing and some stuff the original P5 didn't do at maybe a $500 price point.   Just an optional separate box with knobs and buttons that plugs into the P5/10 via USB with matching wood finish and overall appearance, and some FX options (I know there are some aftermarket solutions that are similar for P6/OB6 but I'm envisioning a bit more).

Bi-timbrality on the P10 would indeed be nice, but if you've ever used a Rev2 for example in multi-mode, you know that sometimes simpler is better.

I’ve used multimode on the Prophet X. Never had an issue.

Bi timbrality does need to be complicated on pure analog gear. Jupiter 8, OBXa, Prophet T8. If anything a bi timbral Prophet 10 might be easier to manage than a Prophet REV2.

It might be, and I haven't tried multi-timbrality.  It's not that it's really hard to manage on a Rev2, it's just that I find myself more and more using it to increase the density or complexity of a single patch via layer rather than really as two distinct synths.  That's more of a statement of the issue of juggling two layers and MIDI channels, multi mode on or off, etc via the DAW.   For me it's just way more musical to physically put my alternate hand on another keyboard when I want a different patch...  but maybe I'm old school in that regard.

I felt the same way about multi-timbrality (not just bi) on the Virus Ti2.  On paper it's great but in practice, I found it a fiddly and non-musical detriment to the creation process.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on October 03, 2020, 04:35:33 PM
Also just occurred to me. Oberheim has been filing patents/trademarks lately sooooo would it be too much to hope that we may see a new OB-8?
Fingers crossed for another awesome thing I’m too poor to buy! Haha

Nope Gibson screwed Tom Oberheim over. It didn’t make a lot of press but that “gesture of goodwill” giving Tom the Oberheim brand back was banana oil. Behringer already trademarked it so Gibson gave Tom a brand name they didn’t even own as a PR stunt. I honestly think Tom is done making anything sadly.

But he just trademarked "OB-Xa" a few weeks back.  Why couldn't he release one in a collab with Dave like the OB-6?

That’s my fear. Do we really need another reissue?

If I can get a true reissue, with warranty, for a third of what the repair-risk original is going for then I say hell yes, bring me as many as I can afford and have space for.  I won't be able buy all of them probably, but a Prophet-5 and OB-X reissue?   If it took 40 years to get something comparable, what are these new re-issue synths going to be worth 3 decades from now?

An ARP 2600 is something I don't see myself buying...  because I don't think the sound itself brought as much to the music scene as all of the weird creative things that were done with it thanks to the drugs of the 70's :)... it might be a great synth but it's not getting my dollars.

Back to your original point though, you said you don't think there will be any more Oberheims, but then you said you're worried there will be.   Not needling you here, I'm genuinely interested in your position on this.  Can you clarify what you think will realistically happen and why and constrast it for what you would like (or not like) to happen and why?

I’m not going to get into the Oberheim situation with myself here. My original post was removed and honestly the situation was a headache for both parties involved. If you wish to know more you can DM me.

The reason I don’t want to see an Oberheim OBX reissue or even OBXa reissue is because if you look at the history of Sequential’s instruments it’s constantly improving and evolving. From the Prophet 5 to the Prophet 10 to the Prophet T8 it just keeps moving forward...I don’t want to see them suddenly start reissuing classics for the sake of it. As heartwarming as it is it doesn’t move things forward.

Let me put it this way....as much as I would love a reissue of the Prophet 10 in its double keyboard form.....I’d rather see a double keyboard version with two Prophet 6 engines.

PM'd you on the Obie story.

Also, thanks for clarification.  I can definitely understand each of us having an interest in where Sequential is going next... they are a small company and focus in one area takes away from focus in other. 

But I have to say, for those wanting an evolution of the Prophet-5, the Prophet-6 is already that, and since you own one, you know what a special instrument it really is.   So as I see it, Dave has already moved things forward in the analog poly space, but realized there is an increasing market for the sound of vintage gear, and is addressing that market in addition to the advancements that have already been made. 

Some could say the increase in popularity of synthwave itself (which is driving a lot of the demand for analog) is in some ways "going backwards"...  but others who enjoy retro-inspired synth music are saying "thank god that good music is happening again" because it was something tragically knocked off the map for so many decades.

A LOT of people have dreamed of owning a P5 for its signature sound but couldn't justify it.  For that crowd, the ability to switch filter types (Rev 1/2 or 3) and have the option of aftertouch and velocity are huge advancements.  But like music itself, what's desirable in an instrument is always subjective, and pleasing everyone is an impossible goal (and a goal that I hope Dave never tries to pursue, because then such a small company really would lose their focus).

I think my mindset is....it's absolutely fantastic that Dave managed to get the exact circuits and chips and architecture of the original Prophet 5 back...it's great........but could that engine and architecture not be...expanded on? Would it really have be detrimental to add a Poly Sequencer (Which was an accompanying piece to the original Prophet 5 anyway) or make the Prophet 10 bi timbral? The Moog One already jumped the shark...people are paying almost $10K for that thing....why not take the Prophet 5 and say "We have the exact same parts so it is a Prophet 5....but we figured we'd add some treats for you guys. We will include an arpeggiator and poly sequencer on board. For the Prophet 10....we figured 10 voices is awesome...but what would be even better is if you could split those voices and stack them....so instead of just having more polyphony...we added two Prophet 5 engines and made it bi timbral. Would it be more expensive? Sure but it would at least feel new....Like the Prophet REV2 of the Prophet 08....so much was added and improved upon...it felt like a successor. It felt it earned the title of the REV2. Don't get me wrong, the multiple filters is fantastic....and so is the "Vintage Knob".....but I'm just not sure it's really a REV 4 if you get my drift.

Oddly, I agree with you on some of this even if we differ on our vision of the ideal solution.   For sequencing and modulation options, I think it would be cool of Dave to release an external companion product that interfaces with the P5/P10 (like some of the after market solutions) that provide a control surface, more LFOs, and sequencing and some stuff the original P5 didn't do at maybe a $500 price point.   Just an optional separate box with knobs and buttons that plugs into the P5/10 via USB with matching wood finish and overall appearance, and some FX options (I know there are some aftermarket solutions that are similar for P6/OB6 but I'm envisioning a bit more).

Bi-timbrality on the P10 would indeed be nice, but if you've ever used a Rev2 for example in multi-mode, you know that sometimes simpler is better.

This is why I truly hope the reported modules are than just desktop versions.  Have the module have poly sequencer and polychaining so it is a companion piece to the P5 rather than just a shrunk down version. It’s also why I think the P10 was a bad idea in its single keyboard form. if it was bi timbral they could have offered a lower manual keyboard that the P10 could sit on and you can midi together and have two entire keybeds to use for each respective engine.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on October 03, 2020, 04:39:44 PM
Also just occurred to me. Oberheim has been filing patents/trademarks lately sooooo would it be too much to hope that we may see a new OB-8?
Fingers crossed for another awesome thing I’m too poor to buy! Haha

Nope Gibson screwed Tom Oberheim over. It didn’t make a lot of press but that “gesture of goodwill” giving Tom the Oberheim brand back was banana oil. Behringer already trademarked it so Gibson gave Tom a brand name they didn’t even own as a PR stunt. I honestly think Tom is done making anything sadly.

But he just trademarked "OB-Xa" a few weeks back.  Why couldn't he release one in a collab with Dave like the OB-6?

That’s my fear. Do we really need another reissue?

If I can get a true reissue, with warranty, for a third of what the repair-risk original is going for then I say hell yes, bring me as many as I can afford and have space for.  I won't be able buy all of them probably, but a Prophet-5 and OB-X reissue?   If it took 40 years to get something comparable, what are these new re-issue synths going to be worth 3 decades from now?

An ARP 2600 is something I don't see myself buying...  because I don't think the sound itself brought as much to the music scene as all of the weird creative things that were done with it thanks to the drugs of the 70's :)... it might be a great synth but it's not getting my dollars.

Back to your original point though, you said you don't think there will be any more Oberheims, but then you said you're worried there will be.   Not needling you here, I'm genuinely interested in your position on this.  Can you clarify what you think will realistically happen and why and constrast it for what you would like (or not like) to happen and why?

I’m not going to get into the Oberheim situation with myself here. My original post was removed and honestly the situation was a headache for both parties involved. If you wish to know more you can DM me.

The reason I don’t want to see an Oberheim OBX reissue or even OBXa reissue is because if you look at the history of Sequential’s instruments it’s constantly improving and evolving. From the Prophet 5 to the Prophet 10 to the Prophet T8 it just keeps moving forward...I don’t want to see them suddenly start reissuing classics for the sake of it. As heartwarming as it is it doesn’t move things forward.

Let me put it this way....as much as I would love a reissue of the Prophet 10 in its double keyboard form.....I’d rather see a double keyboard version with two Prophet 6 engines.

PM'd you on the Obie story.

Also, thanks for clarification.  I can definitely understand each of us having an interest in where Sequential is going next... they are a small company and focus in one area takes away from focus in other. 

But I have to say, for those wanting an evolution of the Prophet-5, the Prophet-6 is already that, and since you own one, you know what a special instrument it really is.   So as I see it, Dave has already moved things forward in the analog poly space, but realized there is an increasing market for the sound of vintage gear, and is addressing that market in addition to the advancements that have already been made. 

Some could say the increase in popularity of synthwave itself (which is driving a lot of the demand for analog) is in some ways "going backwards"...  but others who enjoy retro-inspired synth music are saying "thank god that good music is happening again" because it was something tragically knocked off the map for so many decades.

A LOT of people have dreamed of owning a P5 for its signature sound but couldn't justify it.  For that crowd, the ability to switch filter types (Rev 1/2 or 3) and have the option of aftertouch and velocity are huge advancements.  But like music itself, what's desirable in an instrument is always subjective, and pleasing everyone is an impossible goal (and a goal that I hope Dave never tries to pursue, because then such a small company really would lose their focus).

I think my mindset is....it's absolutely fantastic that Dave managed to get the exact circuits and chips and architecture of the original Prophet 5 back...it's great........but could that engine and architecture not be...expanded on? Would it really have be detrimental to add a Poly Sequencer (Which was an accompanying piece to the original Prophet 5 anyway) or make the Prophet 10 bi timbral? The Moog One already jumped the shark...people are paying almost $10K for that thing....why not take the Prophet 5 and say "We have the exact same parts so it is a Prophet 5....but we figured we'd add some treats for you guys. We will include an arpeggiator and poly sequencer on board. For the Prophet 10....we figured 10 voices is awesome...but what would be even better is if you could split those voices and stack them....so instead of just having more polyphony...we added two Prophet 5 engines and made it bi timbral. Would it be more expensive? Sure but it would at least feel new....Like the Prophet REV2 of the Prophet 08....so much was added and improved upon...it felt like a successor. It felt it earned the title of the REV2. Don't get me wrong, the multiple filters is fantastic....and so is the "Vintage Knob".....but I'm just not sure it's really a REV 4 if you get my drift.

Oddly, I agree with you on some of this even if we differ on our vision of the ideal solution.   For sequencing and modulation options, I think it would be cool of Dave to release an external companion product that interfaces with the P5/P10 (like some of the after market solutions) that provide a control surface, more LFOs, and sequencing and some stuff the original P5 didn't do at maybe a $500 price point.   Just an optional separate box with knobs and buttons that plugs into the P5/10 via USB with matching wood finish and overall appearance, and some FX options (I know there are some aftermarket solutions that are similar for P6/OB6 but I'm envisioning a bit more).

Bi-timbrality on the P10 would indeed be nice, but if you've ever used a Rev2 for example in multi-mode, you know that sometimes simpler is better.

I’ve used multimode on the Prophet X. Never had an issue.

Bi timbrality does need to be complicated on pure analog gear. Jupiter 8, OBXa, Prophet T8. If anything a bi timbral Prophet 10 might be easier to manage than a Prophet REV2.

It might be, and I haven't tried multi-timbrality.  It's not that it's really hard to manage on a Rev2, it's just that I find myself more and more using it to increase the density or complexity of a single patch via layer rather than really as two distinct synths.  That's more of a statement of the issue of juggling two layers and MIDI channels, multi mode on or off, etc via the DAW.   For me it's just way more musical to physically put my alternate hand on another keyboard when I want a different patch...  but maybe I'm old school in that regard.

I felt the same way about multi-timbrality (not just bi) on the Virus Ti2.  On paper it's great but in practice, I found it a fiddly and non-musical detriment to the creation process.

I wouldn’t say that has anything to do with old school. OBXa and Jupiter 8 were bi timbral and could have two distinct sounds and “old school” players lust after those.

Still...if you want to put your hands on another keyboard....https://youtu.be/H2nPDrC4r9M
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on October 03, 2020, 05:28:43 PM
Also just occurred to me. Oberheim has been filing patents/trademarks lately sooooo would it be too much to hope that we may see a new OB-8?
Fingers crossed for another awesome thing I’m too poor to buy! Haha

Nope Gibson screwed Tom Oberheim over. It didn’t make a lot of press but that “gesture of goodwill” giving Tom the Oberheim brand back was banana oil. Behringer already trademarked it so Gibson gave Tom a brand name they didn’t even own as a PR stunt. I honestly think Tom is done making anything sadly.

But he just trademarked "OB-Xa" a few weeks back.  Why couldn't he release one in a collab with Dave like the OB-6?

That’s my fear. Do we really need another reissue?

If I can get a true reissue, with warranty, for a third of what the repair-risk original is going for then I say hell yes, bring me as many as I can afford and have space for.  I won't be able buy all of them probably, but a Prophet-5 and OB-X reissue?   If it took 40 years to get something comparable, what are these new re-issue synths going to be worth 3 decades from now?

An ARP 2600 is something I don't see myself buying...  because I don't think the sound itself brought as much to the music scene as all of the weird creative things that were done with it thanks to the drugs of the 70's :)... it might be a great synth but it's not getting my dollars.

Back to your original point though, you said you don't think there will be any more Oberheims, but then you said you're worried there will be.   Not needling you here, I'm genuinely interested in your position on this.  Can you clarify what you think will realistically happen and why and constrast it for what you would like (or not like) to happen and why?

I’m not going to get into the Oberheim situation with myself here. My original post was removed and honestly the situation was a headache for both parties involved. If you wish to know more you can DM me.

The reason I don’t want to see an Oberheim OBX reissue or even OBXa reissue is because if you look at the history of Sequential’s instruments it’s constantly improving and evolving. From the Prophet 5 to the Prophet 10 to the Prophet T8 it just keeps moving forward...I don’t want to see them suddenly start reissuing classics for the sake of it. As heartwarming as it is it doesn’t move things forward.

Let me put it this way....as much as I would love a reissue of the Prophet 10 in its double keyboard form.....I’d rather see a double keyboard version with two Prophet 6 engines.

PM'd you on the Obie story.

Also, thanks for clarification.  I can definitely understand each of us having an interest in where Sequential is going next... they are a small company and focus in one area takes away from focus in other. 

But I have to say, for those wanting an evolution of the Prophet-5, the Prophet-6 is already that, and since you own one, you know what a special instrument it really is.   So as I see it, Dave has already moved things forward in the analog poly space, but realized there is an increasing market for the sound of vintage gear, and is addressing that market in addition to the advancements that have already been made. 

Some could say the increase in popularity of synthwave itself (which is driving a lot of the demand for analog) is in some ways "going backwards"...  but others who enjoy retro-inspired synth music are saying "thank god that good music is happening again" because it was something tragically knocked off the map for so many decades.

A LOT of people have dreamed of owning a P5 for its signature sound but couldn't justify it.  For that crowd, the ability to switch filter types (Rev 1/2 or 3) and have the option of aftertouch and velocity are huge advancements.  But like music itself, what's desirable in an instrument is always subjective, and pleasing everyone is an impossible goal (and a goal that I hope Dave never tries to pursue, because then such a small company really would lose their focus).

I think my mindset is....it's absolutely fantastic that Dave managed to get the exact circuits and chips and architecture of the original Prophet 5 back...it's great........but could that engine and architecture not be...expanded on? Would it really have be detrimental to add a Poly Sequencer (Which was an accompanying piece to the original Prophet 5 anyway) or make the Prophet 10 bi timbral? The Moog One already jumped the shark...people are paying almost $10K for that thing....why not take the Prophet 5 and say "We have the exact same parts so it is a Prophet 5....but we figured we'd add some treats for you guys. We will include an arpeggiator and poly sequencer on board. For the Prophet 10....we figured 10 voices is awesome...but what would be even better is if you could split those voices and stack them....so instead of just having more polyphony...we added two Prophet 5 engines and made it bi timbral. Would it be more expensive? Sure but it would at least feel new....Like the Prophet REV2 of the Prophet 08....so much was added and improved upon...it felt like a successor. It felt it earned the title of the REV2. Don't get me wrong, the multiple filters is fantastic....and so is the "Vintage Knob".....but I'm just not sure it's really a REV 4 if you get my drift.

Oddly, I agree with you on some of this even if we differ on our vision of the ideal solution.   For sequencing and modulation options, I think it would be cool of Dave to release an external companion product that interfaces with the P5/P10 (like some of the after market solutions) that provide a control surface, more LFOs, and sequencing and some stuff the original P5 didn't do at maybe a $500 price point.   Just an optional separate box with knobs and buttons that plugs into the P5/10 via USB with matching wood finish and overall appearance, and some FX options (I know there are some aftermarket solutions that are similar for P6/OB6 but I'm envisioning a bit more).

Bi-timbrality on the P10 would indeed be nice, but if you've ever used a Rev2 for example in multi-mode, you know that sometimes simpler is better.

I’ve used multimode on the Prophet X. Never had an issue.

Bi timbrality does need to be complicated on pure analog gear. Jupiter 8, OBXa, Prophet T8. If anything a bi timbral Prophet 10 might be easier to manage than a Prophet REV2.

It might be, and I haven't tried multi-timbrality.  It's not that it's really hard to manage on a Rev2, it's just that I find myself more and more using it to increase the density or complexity of a single patch via layer rather than really as two distinct synths.  That's more of a statement of the issue of juggling two layers and MIDI channels, multi mode on or off, etc via the DAW.   For me it's just way more musical to physically put my alternate hand on another keyboard when I want a different patch...  but maybe I'm old school in that regard.

I felt the same way about multi-timbrality (not just bi) on the Virus Ti2.  On paper it's great but in practice, I found it a fiddly and non-musical detriment to the creation process.

I wouldn’t say that has anything to do with old school. OBXa and Jupiter 8 were bi timbral and could have two distinct sounds and “old school” players lust after those.

Still...if you want to put your hands on another keyboard....https://youtu.be/H2nPDrC4r9M

Yeah but I didn't dig the original P10 design, because it puts a lot of the controls in too much of a "reach forward" position.  When I refer to one hand on each keyboard, I mean different patch and different musical role (like bass and lead for example), and controls within easy reach from the keyboard for that hand.  I'm probably ergonomically weird but my ideal "playing" stance is when both keyboards are vertically on the same plane, but angled perpendicular to each other.  It might sound odd but when playing in that way new musical ideas actually come to me better -- there is something about the physical positioning that transfers to the way my neuron workflow operates.

OBXa and Jupiter 8 are the dreams of many, including myself.  But I personally hope if they ever materialize, the physical keyboard case isn't as huge as the originals.  I think the chances of Roland doing a true Jupiter 8 reissue likely aren't worth discussing at this point, even though we can dream.  The OBXa seems like a realistic possibilty, but if it comes I hope it is in a form factor similar to the Prophet 5.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: CoffeePockets on October 04, 2020, 01:21:42 AM
Apologiesfor my enthusiastic rambling but here goes-
I ve just placed an order for a P10. I cant wait. Call me a child of the 80s. All ive ever wanted is a Prophet 5/10 an OB8/XA , a Moog Taurus 1  and a LinnDrum. Ive bought a myriad of synths to get close to those sounds. I have a tempest for the Linndrum, and Taurus 3 for the 1, Prophet 08 , an OB 6 and well you get the idea...The P10 will replace the P08 but I will miss it!
Now if they were to release an updated OBXA, Id get that too. Im not a fan of older instruments as they're often expensive to maintain... and modern synths like the Bass Station 2 and Roland JDXA get me close to more vintage sounds ...But to to own a Prophet 5 reissue? - that's just wonderful and a dream come true for me!! Dave Smith and his team are legends! I hope a truly reissued Oberheim surfaces in the future...in the meantime Ill  just keep playing my OB6 !!
Awesome! Please give us a demo as soon as you get it and run it through its paces!
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: CoffeePockets on October 04, 2020, 01:26:59 AM
Also just occurred to me. Oberheim has been filing patents/trademarks lately sooooo would it be too much to hope that we may see a new OB-8?
Fingers crossed for another awesome thing I’m too poor to buy! Haha

Nope Gibson screwed Tom Oberheim over. It didn’t make a lot of press but that “gesture of goodwill” giving Tom the Oberheim brand back was banana oil. Behringer already trademarked it so Gibson gave Tom a brand name they didn’t even own as a PR stunt. I honestly think Tom is done making anything sadly.

But he just trademarked "OB-Xa" a few weeks back.  Why couldn't he release one in a collab with Dave like the OB-6?

That’s my fear. Do we really need another reissue?

If I can get a true reissue, with warranty, for a third of what the repair-risk original is going for then I say hell yes, bring me as many as I can afford and have space for.  I won't be able buy all of them probably, but a Prophet-5 and OB-X reissue?   If it took 40 years to get something comparable, what are these new re-issue synths going to be worth 3 decades from now?

An ARP 2600 is something I don't see myself buying...  because I don't think the sound itself brought as much to the music scene as all of the weird creative things that were done with it thanks to the drugs of the 70's :)... it might be a great synth but it's not getting my dollars.

Back to your original point though, you said you don't think there will be any more Oberheims, but then you said you're worried there will be.   Not needling you here, I'm genuinely interested in your position on this.  Can you clarify what you think will realistically happen and why and constrast it for what you would like (or not like) to happen and why?

I’m not going to get into the Oberheim situation with myself here. My original post was removed and honestly the situation was a headache for both parties involved. If you wish to know more you can DM me.

The reason I don’t want to see an Oberheim OBX reissue or even OBXa reissue is because if you look at the history of Sequential’s instruments it’s constantly improving and evolving. From the Prophet 5 to the Prophet 10 to the Prophet T8 it just keeps moving forward...I don’t want to see them suddenly start reissuing classics for the sake of it. As heartwarming as it is it doesn’t move things forward.

Let me put it this way....as much as I would love a reissue of the Prophet 10 in its double keyboard form.....I’d rather see a double keyboard version with two Prophet 6 engines.

PM'd you on the Obie story.

Also, thanks for clarification.  I can definitely understand each of us having an interest in where Sequential is going next... they are a small company and focus in one area takes away from focus in other. 

But I have to say, for those wanting an evolution of the Prophet-5, the Prophet-6 is already that, and since you own one, you know what a special instrument it really is.   So as I see it, Dave has already moved things forward in the analog poly space, but realized there is an increasing market for the sound of vintage gear, and is addressing that market in addition to the advancements that have already been made. 

Some could say the increase in popularity of synthwave itself (which is driving a lot of the demand for analog) is in some ways "going backwards"...  but others who enjoy retro-inspired synth music are saying "thank god that good music is happening again" because it was something tragically knocked off the map for so many decades.

A LOT of people have dreamed of owning a P5 for its signature sound but couldn't justify it.  For that crowd, the ability to switch filter types (Rev 1/2 or 3) and have the option of aftertouch and velocity are huge advancements.  But like music itself, what's desirable in an instrument is always subjective, and pleasing everyone is an impossible goal (and a goal that I hope Dave never tries to pursue, because then such a small company really would lose their focus).
I for one would jump all over an ob8 or obxa reissue. As enthusiastic as I am about the Prophet 5/10, the diehard Prince fan in me has always dreamed of an ob8 and would do some serious gear liquidation to get one. I was excited about the ob6 but when I tested it against my prophet 6 and (I know it isn’t a “real” Obie but) my Matrix6, it just wasn’t dissimilar enough for me to jump. I’ve already convinced myself the prophet 5 needs to come home with me so why not a hypothetical giant matching OB8? Lol
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dmfs on October 04, 2020, 02:49:01 AM
Yes please bring on the OB8/XA reissue!!!
Ill report back as soon as my P10 lands but its  coming all the way to Australia so it could be some time!!!
Ive been told that Units are shipping but who knows how long?...
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: the_pianist on October 05, 2020, 10:59:14 AM
Hello,
I'm a noob, located in the "EU", synth enthusiast, collect and repair vintage synths and keyboards, listen to pretty much everything from "dance music" to film scores and classic. Love music and analogue circuits
and I'd like to comment on the Prophet~5, which I don't actually own. As a matter of fact, I don't even own a Dave Smith instrument yet. I am excited about the announcement though!
It's a bit of a surprise and also confusing a bit. Do we really need the ~5, when there is a ~6 already? The ~6 has got all the original Prophet patches on it and by what I've heard, they are amazing. So it can sound like the ~5 but can go beyond?
And the new Prophet~5 ist just what it always used to be with Midi and an extra knob + 2 Filters to choose from...
I am more the purist, don't actually need a sequencer or onboard FX, so I'd take the new one over the Prophet~6 IF it wouldn't be so expensive!
For the amount I need to pay I could get a vintage one, I believe.
A vintage instrument is pure amazement, when opened and looked at from the inside. New instruments are rather empty... ok, one must not shrink the whole instrument, when miniaturizing the PCB, but then I'd expect to Synth to be much cheaper also. This kind of machine manufacturing has become really cheap these days anyways. Maybe I forget something.
Next, what I'd expect from a synth. There is no synth that does it all and I don't expect that. But also, they are pretty similar. I can try to achieve similar things on every synth, only then I realize what can not be done. That's mostly rated to voice count and sequencer, that's why I perceive some onboard sequencers more like toys than real a real tool. I play around alot with it, but there is no way to program triplets in one line and non triplets in the other (on the poly-sequencer on the Minilogue) for instance).
So, I see the omission of a sequencer actually as a bonus. I have similar feelings about the FX.
Next multi-timbrality. If a synth designer in this day and age REALLY can do something right, then it's to make a polysynth, rather than a mono one AND make it multitimbral, let us program it that way or even better have it fully timbral!
Sequential could probably make that happen, with a bit of an effort. After all it can be programmed and things shouldn't be hard wired.
But software design is expensive, I know and so we see a lot of very basic Midi implementations these days.

So should I get on (save up for one)?Prophet~5 s competition is huge, there are polysynths with much a more modern approach, offering 8 or 16 voices and so on and they cost much less.
Maybe they are not as pure and simplistic and have features, one doesn't need anyway and are a bit more plastic like. But they also might provide the one or other function, that is really killer to have.

One has to be prepared to invest in a new Prophet!

Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on October 05, 2020, 12:01:37 PM
Putting a host of important issues aside, four reasons strike me as validating a new Prophet-5/10:

1) All new parts for the long-haul
2) Freedom from expensive ongoing vintage instrument maintenance
3) A full warrantee, if there are problems
4) An existent company to service the instrument

And these are only the cold facts.


Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Shaw on October 05, 2020, 12:26:11 PM
Putting a host of important issues aside, four reasons strike me as validating a new Prophet-5/10:

1) All new parts for the long-haul
2) Freedom from expensive ongoing vintage instrument maintenance
3) A full warrantee, if there are problems
4) An existent company to service the instrument

And these are only the cold facts.
I’d second what @Sacred Synthesis has said and add that the new Prophet 5 is more flexible adding switchable filters, a “Vintage” knob that can “loosen or tighten” the sound to taste, USB midi, velocity and aftertouch.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: dmfs on October 05, 2020, 01:21:54 PM
Putting a host of important issues aside, four reasons strike me as validating a new Prophet-5/10:

1) All new parts for the long-haul
2) Freedom from expensive ongoing vintage instrument maintenance
3) A full warrantee, if there are problems
4) An existent company to service the instrument

And these are only the cold facts.
I’d second what @Sacred Synthesis has said and add that the new Prophet 5 is more flexible adding switchable filters, a “Vintage” knob that can “loosen or tighten” the sound to taste, USB midi, velocity and aftertouch.

Yep totally agree! (Disclaimer - I have ordered a P10)
Id like to add a fifth reason- kind of a 3a and 4a - Aftermarket service. Sequential is nothing short of fantastic in my experience. They are fast, courteous and eager to help you. You can tell that this is a bunch of people that are passionate about what they make and what they do and it shows in every aspect of their company. Ive have things shipped out to Australia and find their response time is excellent.
I bought a very expensive synth brand new from another famous
US Company and have put in the same question in twice to a support page and am still awaiting an answer 4 years later...
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on October 05, 2020, 01:42:33 PM
Yep totally agree! (Disclaimer - I have ordered a P10)
Id like to add a fifth reason- kind of a 3a and 4a - Aftermarket service. Sequential is nothing short of fantastic in my experience. They are fast, courteous and eager to help you. You can tell that this is a bunch of people that are passionate about what they make and what they do and it shows in every aspect of their company.

This is one of the reasons the Sequential brand now dominates my hardware synth collection.  The quality and sound of the instrument is paramount and IMO Dave is making the best analog synths these days...but combine that with the quality of people behind the brand, and it is why I'm a repeat customer.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: CoffeePockets on October 05, 2020, 03:41:04 PM
Yep totally agree! (Disclaimer - I have ordered a P10)
Id like to add a fifth reason- kind of a 3a and 4a - Aftermarket service. Sequential is nothing short of fantastic in my experience. They are fast, courteous and eager to help you. You can tell that this is a bunch of people that are passionate about what they make and what they do and it shows in every aspect of their company.

This is one of the reasons the Sequential brand now dominates my hardware synth collection.  The quality and sound of the instrument is paramount and IMO Dave is making the best analog synths these days...but combine that with the quality of people behind the brand, and it is why I'm a repeat customer.
Excellent points. I have been very impressed with their customer service, I purchased a used Prophet 6 module that had a knob bent in shipping and after two emails confirming that I knew my way around a soldering iron they had a replacement pot in the mail with zero fuss. They produce a superb product but still operate the way you expect a good small business to. And with the expensive surprises that come with a vintage instrument it’s no question for me.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on October 16, 2020, 03:47:15 AM
https://youtu.be/FGL3JQDJjYo

So 2 new instruments are already in the making beyond the Prophet-5 and 10 modules.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Quatschmacher on October 16, 2020, 03:49:44 AM
https://youtu.be/FGL3JQDJjYo

So 2 new instruments are already in the making beyond the Prophet-5 and 10 modules.

P12 and Tempest successors perhaps?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on October 16, 2020, 03:56:21 AM
A drum synth related to the Prophet X and a poly synth related to the Pro 3 seem like obvious options. But who knows? Neither the Pro 3 nor the Prophet-5/10 had been expected.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on October 16, 2020, 10:56:16 AM
Paul, you know I'll always be hoping for a Poly Evolver Rev 2.  Silly me, I know. 

Maybe the Pro 3 is the beginning of the next new line or series of synthesizers.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on October 16, 2020, 12:39:04 PM
Paul, you know I'll always be hoping for a Poly Evolver Rev 2.  Silly me, I know. 

Maybe the Pro 3 is the beginning of the next new line or series of synthesizers.


It's quite similar to the Evolver in terms of analog/digital hybrid oscillators. I could see the Pro 3 being the start of "Phase 3" of the Sequential lineup. More of an experimental and forward thinking approach as opposed to nods to the past. Perhaps we won't even see any more "Prophet" synths. The Prophet 5 and Prophet 5 being bookends of the Prophet legacy.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: A Thousand Eyes on October 16, 2020, 02:12:12 PM
Other than a Tempest successor, an intuitive/knobby 6 op linear FM synth would be the only thing to personally interest me at this point. If Dave (and co.) could be the first to pull such a thing off, then that would do much more for his legacy than anything else.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on October 16, 2020, 02:40:04 PM
Other than a Tempest successor, an intuitive/knobby 6 op linear FM synth would be the only thing to personally interest me at this point. If Dave (and co.) could be the first to pull such a thing off, then that would do much more for his legacy than anything else.

Love Paul Dither's design....

Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on October 16, 2020, 03:14:14 PM
Other than a Tempest successor, an intuitive/knobby 6 op linear FM synth would be the only thing to personally interest me at this point. If Dave (and co.) could be the first to pull such a thing off, then that would do much more for his legacy than anything else.

Only thing is that unlike analog, a computer (PC/Mac with DAW I mean) can do FM pretty well (perhaps indistinguishably well).  Dave has always done analog synths like nobody else can do them, while the DX7 sort of represents the downfall of analog in the 80's.  If I were Dave, accomplished the same things he had and was at the same age he was at the time, it would be hard to not have an negative emotional response to the influx of inexpensive digital synths and the rapid music fads that followed.

Don't get me wrong, I'd LOVE a proper DX7 clone with good programmability.  I just feel that plugins do pretty well at FM synthesis.   One of my favorites, which is a little underrated and maybe in some circles unknown is Sytrus -- the interface is the best I've seen for FM synthesis, and it sounds great.

Then again if a module came along at a reasonable price that had that same "thunk" the original DX7 had, I'd be interested.  "Reasonable" being the operative concept.   I just don't know if Dave is interested in the "reasonably priced" market with synth makers like the "B" company emerging more and more.  I feel like he is more at a stage where he wants the premium market and to make every product count.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: A Thousand Eyes on October 16, 2020, 03:51:34 PM
Anyone working in a tech field with an aversion to flux is in the wrong business to begin with. Besides, it's not like he's so allergic to it considering the P12 update to warrant such conjecture. We know like many of us here, he finds using soft synths on a comp to be work, so the advantage is purely with the interface and being self-contained. I for one am happy to use presets from Dexed (which is free), but I'm never going to sit and design my own patch on it. Although, I will agree a module would be a good place to start instead of the other way around. It could come in considerably cheaper than anything else in their line-up, while having no real competition (the Digitone would be a toy in comparison if done right) & certainly not further add to self-cannibalization. I'm not sure how many more flagships the market will support and the low-end analog portion has been fully saturated for some time now. FM has a lot of untapped potential in large part because no one has pulled off an appealing interface yet for those looking for something tactile. 
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on October 16, 2020, 04:10:28 PM
Anyone working in a tech field with an aversion to flux is in the wrong business to begin with. Besides, it's not like he's so allergic to it considering the P12 update to warrant such conjecture. We know like many of us here, he finds using soft synths on a comp to be work, so the advantage is purely with the interface and being self-contained. I for one am happy to use presets from Dexed (which is free), but I'm never going to sit and design my own patch on it. Although, I will agree a module would be a good place to start instead of the other way around. It could come in considerably cheaper than anything else in their line-up, while having no real competition (the Digitone would be a toy in comparison if done right) & certainly not further add to self-cannibalization. I'm not sure how many more flagships the market will support and the low-end analog portion has been fully saturated for some time now. FM has a lot of untapped potential in large part because no one has pulled of an appealing interface yet for those looking for something tactile.

FM has a lot of untapped potential in large part because no one has pulled of an appealing interface yet for those looking for something tactile.

Quoting that last line twice for its eloquence and relevance value.  The question is -- has nobody done it due to lack of ideas, or is it because the nature of FM synths and the amount of knob madness that would need to be done right, presents a bit of cost proposition dilemma?   If you need $1,500 worth of knobs to drive $50 worth of code and DSP, will the consumer be happy?

Take a look at the best FM programming interface I've seen to date... and we are only looking at one page:
  https://imgur.com/a/Z6YVvzU

What would the MSRP be on a "wall sized configuration of knobs" that could offer same?  And would consumers be happy when they found that regardless of controls available to manipulate everything properly, it is still orders of magnitude less intuitive than subtractive synthesis?  Sure, if could be a menu diver, but that is what the DX7 was and NOBODY likes programming a DX7.  It got where it was because it sounded good and VSTs weren't available at the time.

Now... do I think there is a way it could be done?  Simplified in a way so that not EVERYTHING possible with FM was on the panel, but enough to capture the soul and still be musical?   Yes and there are those, maybe Dave and crew who are talented enough to make that a possibility.  I just wonder if it's really in his wheelhouse to do so, or if analog is what he does best?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on October 16, 2020, 04:15:38 PM
Other than a Tempest successor, an intuitive/knobby 6 op linear FM synth would be the only thing to personally interest me at this point. If Dave (and co.) could be the first to pull such a thing off, then that would do much more for his legacy than anything else.

Only thing is that unlike analog, a computer (PC/Mac with DAW I mean) can do FM pretty well (perhaps indistinguishably well).  Dave has always done analog synths like nobody else can do them, while the DX7 sort of represents the downfall of analog in the 80's.  If I were Dave, accomplished the same things he had and was at the same age he was at the time, it would be hard to not have an negative emotional response to the influx of inexpensive digital synths and the rapid music fads that followed.

Don't get me wrong, I'd LOVE a proper DX7 clone with good programmability.  I just feel that plugins do pretty well at FM synthesis.   One of my favorites, which is a little underrated and maybe in some circles unknown is Sytrus -- the interface is the best I've seen for FM synthesis, and it sounds great.

Then again if a module came along at a reasonable price that had that same "thunk" the original DX7 had, I'd be interested.  "Reasonable" being the operative concept.   I just don't know if Dave is interested in the "reasonably priced" market with synth makers like the "B" company emerging more and more.  I feel like he is more at a stage where he wants the premium market and to make every product count.

Dave was part of the digital synth revolution too with the Prophet 2000 Sampler and Prophet VS.

Why not a FM based oscillator section in the front end and running through analog filters and amps? Dave has always ALWAYS said when you take digital oscillators or digital sounds and run them through analog filters....something magical happens.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on October 16, 2020, 04:48:46 PM
Other than a Tempest successor, an intuitive/knobby 6 op linear FM synth would be the only thing to personally interest me at this point. If Dave (and co.) could be the first to pull such a thing off, then that would do much more for his legacy than anything else.

Only thing is that unlike analog, a computer (PC/Mac with DAW I mean) can do FM pretty well (perhaps indistinguishably well).  Dave has always done analog synths like nobody else can do them, while the DX7 sort of represents the downfall of analog in the 80's.  If I were Dave, accomplished the same things he had and was at the same age he was at the time, it would be hard to not have an negative emotional response to the influx of inexpensive digital synths and the rapid music fads that followed.

Don't get me wrong, I'd LOVE a proper DX7 clone with good programmability.  I just feel that plugins do pretty well at FM synthesis.   One of my favorites, which is a little underrated and maybe in some circles unknown is Sytrus -- the interface is the best I've seen for FM synthesis, and it sounds great.

Then again if a module came along at a reasonable price that had that same "thunk" the original DX7 had, I'd be interested.  "Reasonable" being the operative concept.   I just don't know if Dave is interested in the "reasonably priced" market with synth makers like the "B" company emerging more and more.  I feel like he is more at a stage where he wants the premium market and to make every product count.

Dave was part of the digital synth revolution too with the Prophet 2000 Sampler and Prophet VS.

Why not a FM based oscillator section in the front end and running through analog filters and amps? Dave has always ALWAYS said when you take digital oscillators or digital sounds and run them through analog filters....something magical happens.

I totally agree with him about the importance of filters, and I agree he could do something nice here.  I guess I'm more or less just wagering on what I think he will decide to do.   He also did a modular FX unit...  Can you imagine the possibilities there?  So it's not a matter of whether he could... it's just a matter of where he will choose to focus his energies.  And my hunches are only that.

I'd love a proper FM synth module, personally.  Probably won't make space for a keyboard, but that's my own (space) issue.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: A Thousand Eyes on October 16, 2020, 06:24:26 PM
Dave was part of the digital synth revolution too with the Prophet 2000 Sampler and Prophet VS.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seer_Systems
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korg_Wavestation
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: CoffeePockets on October 27, 2020, 07:48:30 PM
Hey Dave and company! Can we have a new reissued Pro One in a decent case now?!
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on October 27, 2020, 11:47:36 PM
Hey Dave and company! Can we have a new reissued Pro One in a decent case now?!

Why?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on October 28, 2020, 10:41:18 AM
Hey Dave and company! Can we have a new reissued Pro One in a decent case now?!

Dave is not Uli.  I wouldn't expect more re-issues.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on October 28, 2020, 11:47:22 AM
Hey Dave and company! Can we have a new reissued Pro One in a decent case now?!

Dave is not Uli.  I wouldn't expect more re-issues.

I wouldn't mind to have a (real) Pro One module.  I don't want Behringer's version.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on October 28, 2020, 12:53:52 PM
Hey Dave and company! Can we have a new reissued Pro One in a decent case now?!

Dave is not Uli.  I wouldn't expect more re-issues.

I wouldn't mind to have a (real) Pro One module.  I don't want Behringer's version.

Oh, I'd love to have a bonafide Pro One Keyboard from Dave, too.  I'm just saying, don't expect the Prophet 5/10 re-issue to be the beginning of a trend at Sequential.  I think the company would respond to you by pointing to the Pro 3.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on October 28, 2020, 01:02:46 PM
Hey Dave and company! Can we have a new reissued Pro One in a decent case now?!

Dave is not Uli.  I wouldn't expect more re-issues.

I wouldn't mind to have a (real) Pro One module.  I don't want Behringer's version.

Oh, I'd love to have a bonafide Pro One Keyboard from Dave, too.  I'm just saying, don't expect the Prophet 5/10 re-issue to be the beginning of a trend at Sequential.  I think the company would respond to you by pointing to the Pro 3.

I think there's definitely a finite limit on the number of products they would embark on recreating, but given the initial order demand for the P5/10 Rev4 (according to Dave.. he's kicking himself wondering why they didn't do this 10 years ago), I think a Pro One re-issue would make a lot of sense.  The exception to that might be the fact that the Pro One was originally an affordable/down market synth.  Dave might feel there are too many down-market competitors in this space already, and that a reissue wouldn't offer enough to warrant a modern "made in USA" price tag.  If he could do a reissue Pro One for the approximate price difference between market value of a vintage P5 and the reissue, then personally I think he would have a winner.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on October 28, 2020, 03:16:45 PM
Please, for the love of all that is holy, no more reissues. I really would hate to see Sequential fall down that rabbit hole. Let’s move forward please. A Pro One reissue makes no sense other than a gimmick. What exactly would it offer that a Pro 3 cant?

Dave said he’s not going to do a Prophet VS reissue or Prophet T8 reissue or whatever but if he goes back on that it would be really sad and come off as throwing in the towel against Uli’s clone crusade.

This is why I think the Prophet 5 reissue was great from a marketing standpoint and from a business standpoint...but it seems it’s also set a really bad precedent in terms of opening the flood gates to demands from people for OBX reissues, Prophet VS reissues, Linn Drum reissues, Pro One reissues. Now it feels that no matter what innovation Sequential come out with their customers have now been given the excuse “why can’t you reissue ___ instead?”

I was absolutely thrilled when the Prophet X got announced because I wanted Sequential to do something with samples but if they just came out with a Prophet 2000 reissue I likely would have face palmed.

Why not just bring back floppy discs while we are at it?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on October 28, 2020, 04:02:13 PM
Please, for the love of all that is holy, no more reissues. I really would hate to see Sequential fall down that rabbit hole. Let’s move forward please. A Pro One reissue makes no sense other than a gimmick. What exactly would it offer that a Pro 3 cant?

It would be capable of all of the limitations of the original that resulted in a lot of vintage music sounding the way it did.  Surely you realize there is an entire culture around carpentry and woodworking without using power tools?  Because some folks enjoy the creativity (and in many cases the differences in outcome of the final product) that results from working within creative limitations.  The chair you create without power tools isn't going to be able to do everything that a chair from Ikea or La-Z-Boy can do, but the creation of it can be a HELL of a lot more satisfying than placing an order online.  Same kinda deal with vintage synths.

For some of us, the experience of the journey of music making and sound design is far more important than how many features a synth has, or how many tracks we sell, or other measures, and vintage gear provides a hell of a journey.

Why not just bring back floppy discs while we are at it?

Checkout Espen Kraft's work.  I'm not sure he would allow a synth without a floppy disk drive in his studio!  (Unless it was a synth from before the days that floppys were an option).
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: A Thousand Eyes on October 28, 2020, 04:20:38 PM
@Lobo: Well what do you suggest to truly move forward? Now that you're a workstation man, perhaps you'll rethink the possibility of an analog workstation, which you scoffed at before... Other than that, a knobby linear FM synth, or a patchable modular ecosystem, I don't see much innovative things coming down the pipeline. Actually, if I had to invest in the real frontier of synthesis, I'd put money down on vocal modeling technology. 
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on October 28, 2020, 04:33:42 PM
@Lobo: Well what do you suggest to truly move forward? Now that you're a workstation man, perhaps you'll rethink the possibility of an analog workstation, which you scoffed at before... Other than that, a knobby linear FM synth, or a patchable modular ecosystem, I don't see much innovative things coming down the pipeline. Actually, if I had to invest in the real frontier of synthesis, I'd put money down on vocal modeling technology.

That's the thing, the Golden Age of Synthesis has come and gone, and in the quest to advance the technology aspect of it, a lot of things were lost.  Innovation will come in various other forms (such as controllers), but I'm not sure where the actual synthesis aspect can go from here.

The first synth I ever owned was an additive synth (not many additive synths ever existed, it was a technology that just never took off).  On paper, it was the panacea, because the way harmonics are constructed during design of the sound makes it perhaps the only synthesis technology that is capable of faithfully reproducing or sculpting any sound imaginable.  On paper is one thing and reality is another....  having the technology available to do something, and actually doing it are two different things.  The Kawai synths were the best additive synths ever made, yet anyone will tell you that as instruments they lacked so much of the charisma of their peers at the time.  Programming them was difficult, but even more difficult was understanding the science behind what truly makes a sound what it is, even if you do have the tools to make it at your disposal.  Meanwhile subtractive synths were so easy to program -- limited yes, but easy and fun and much harder to go wrong since you can just intuitively find sweet spots, and when you find something that sounds good modulate it a little bit.   So subtractive synths won.  That is the paradox of synth technology.  More features aren't necessarily better.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on October 28, 2020, 04:39:38 PM
Please, for the love of all that is holy, no more reissues. I really would hate to see Sequential fall down that rabbit hole. Let’s move forward please. A Pro One reissue makes no sense other than a gimmick. What exactly would it offer that a Pro 3 cant?

It would be capable of all of the limitations of the original that resulted in a lot of vintage music sounding the way it did.  Surely you realize there is an entire culture around carpentry and woodworking without using power tools?  Because some folks enjoy the creativity (and in many cases the differences in outcome of the final product) that results from working within creative limitations.  The chair you create without power tools isn't going to be able to do everything that a chair from Ikea or La-Z-Boy can do, but the creation of it can be a HELL of a lot more satisfying than placing an order online.  Same kinda deal with vintage synths.

For some of us, the experience of the journey of music making and sound design is far more important than how many features a synth has, or how many tracks we sell, or other measures, and vintage gear provides a hell of a journey.


Those limitations and sounds can easily be replicated in the Pro 3.

Do you record your music on tape or direct to wax?
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on October 28, 2020, 04:51:10 PM
@Lobo: Well what do you suggest to truly move forward? Now that you're a workstation man, perhaps you'll rethink the possibility of an analog workstation, which you scoffed at before... Other than that, a knobby linear FM synth, or a patchable modular ecosystem, I don't see much innovative things coming down the pipeline. Actually, if I had to invest in the real frontier of synthesis, I'd put money down on vocal modeling technology.

Well like for example the Prophet 5 reissue. Sequential got the chips and filters and almost everything exactly how the original was....I would like to see those chips in a bi timbral VCO poly synth with a poly aftertouch keyboard by expressive E.

I’d like to see multitimbral engine. Nothing crazy but something along the lines of an ARP Quadra (two mono synth engines, string synth, poly synth) or four mono synths that has poly stack mode. This is something I was hoping the Pro 3 could do with its 3 filters, 3 oscillators.

Or as you said a knob based FM synth.

I know people roll their eyes at things like vocoders but I think that would be a really nice option to add a different texture to one’s music. Not just for robot voices but really experiment with formant filter types.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on October 28, 2020, 05:07:22 PM
Those limitations and sounds can easily be replicated in the Pro 3.

If you take a power circular saw, unplug it, and use it to grind down a piece of wood manually using only the blade and elbow grease -- you have simulated one form of the limitation in the sense that you did it without power.  However you have not accurately simulated the experience one would have using legacy wood carving tools.  At the end of the day you might have a cut up piece of wood and be able to say you did it the hard way, but you have not recreated the authentic experience.

I get what you're saying..... I can make almost any synth sound mostly like any other synth, whether working with a limited synth and trying to make it sound like a more full featured one or vice versa....but don't forget, I'm describing the journey, not the end product.  Some of us find nostalgia inspiring, and it becomes part of the journey; additionally most people cannot be convinced that something should inspire them more than what already does.

Do you record your music on tape or direct to wax?

A lot of times I don't record at all, I will let it play straight out of my monitors for my own listening enjoyment.  I'm not involved in music professionally, so the music I create is not intended to entertain others.   I decided to make my money in software engineering rather than music, a career path I've never regretted.   I have not shared a song online since 2009.  I have to stress, it's the journey of the creation process I'm after, not the end product of the music.  Sometimes I want to hear something I wrote in the car just to remind myself how much fun I had creating it, but that's about the extent of it.   But I discard far more music than I keep.  Making music for me is like meditation for some...  Just a form of escapism that I truly enjoy.

... Don't take that to imply I'm opposed to newer synths with newer tech and more features.  I'm interested in those as well, but my interest in reissues isn't going away any time soon.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on October 28, 2020, 05:13:37 PM
Those limitations and sounds can easily be replicated in the Pro 3.

If you take a power circular saw, unplug it, and use it to grind down a piece of wood manually using only the blade and elbow grease -- you have simulated one form of the limitation in the sense that you did it without power.  However you have not accurately simulated the experience one would have using legacy wood carving tools.  At the end of the day you might have a cut up piece of wood and be able to say you did it the hard way, but you have not recreated the authentic experience.

I get what you're saying..... I can make almost any synth sound mostly like any other synth, whether working with a limited synth and trying to make it sound like a more full featured one or vice versa....but don't forget, I'm describing the journey, not the end product.  Some of us find nostalgia inspiring, and it becomes part of the journey; additionally most people cannot be convinced that something should inspire them more than what already does.

Do you record your music on tape or direct to wax?

A lot of times I don't record at all, I will let it play straight out of my monitors for my own listening enjoyment.  I'm not involved in music professionally, so the music I create is not intended to entertain others.   I decided to make my money in software engineering rather than music, a career path I've never regretted.   I have not shared a song online since 2009.  I have to stress, it's the journey of the creation process I'm after, not the end product of the music.  Sometimes I want to hear something I wrote in the car just to remind myself how much fun I had creating it, but that's about the extent of it.   But I discard far more music than I keep.  Making music for me is like meditation for some...  Just a form of escapism that I truly enjoy.

... Don't take that to imply I'm opposed to newer synths with newer tech and more features.  I'm interested in those as well, but my interest in reissues isn't going away any time soon.

You know as someone who shoots on film and has spent thousands of dollars on old movie cameras and film stock. I understand what you are saying.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on October 28, 2020, 05:29:09 PM
Those limitations and sounds can easily be replicated in the Pro 3.

If you take a power circular saw, unplug it, and use it to grind down a piece of wood manually using only the blade and elbow grease -- you have simulated one form of the limitation in the sense that you did it without power.  However you have not accurately simulated the experience one would have using legacy wood carving tools.  At the end of the day you might have a cut up piece of wood and be able to say you did it the hard way, but you have not recreated the authentic experience.

I get what you're saying..... I can make almost any synth sound mostly like any other synth, whether working with a limited synth and trying to make it sound like a more full featured one or vice versa....but don't forget, I'm describing the journey, not the end product.  Some of us find nostalgia inspiring, and it becomes part of the journey; additionally most people cannot be convinced that something should inspire them more than what already does.

Do you record your music on tape or direct to wax?

A lot of times I don't record at all, I will let it play straight out of my monitors for my own listening enjoyment.  I'm not involved in music professionally, so the music I create is not intended to entertain others.   I decided to make my money in software engineering rather than music, a career path I've never regretted.   I have not shared a song online since 2009.  I have to stress, it's the journey of the creation process I'm after, not the end product of the music.  Sometimes I want to hear something I wrote in the car just to remind myself how much fun I had creating it, but that's about the extent of it.   But I discard far more music than I keep.  Making music for me is like meditation for some...  Just a form of escapism that I truly enjoy.

... Don't take that to imply I'm opposed to newer synths with newer tech and more features.  I'm interested in those as well, but my interest in reissues isn't going away any time soon.

You know as someone who shoots on film and has spent thousands of dollars on old movie cameras and film stock. I understand what you are saying.

As I was typing that, I remembered you had an interest in replicating John Carpenter's sound, so I was pretty sure there was some common ground in there somewhere  ;)
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on October 28, 2020, 05:53:13 PM
I think there's definitely a finite limit on the number of products they would embark on recreating, but given the initial order demand for the P5/10 Rev4 (according to Dave.. he's kicking himself wondering why they didn't do this 10 years ago), I think a Pro One re-issue would make a lot of sense.  The exception to that might be the fact that the Pro One was originally an affordable/down market synth.  Dave might feel there are too many down-market competitors in this space already, and that a reissue wouldn't offer enough to warrant a modern "made in USA" price tag.  If he could do a reissue Pro One for the approximate price difference between market value of a vintage P5 and the reissue, then personally I think he would have a winner.

Despite there being a lot of demand for the Prophet-5/10, I would expect this kind of reissue to be a one-off. While the Pro 3 might not be exactly what one would call a limited instrument, it's probably the one Sequential instrument that's related the most to the Pro-One ever since the latter was released.
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on October 28, 2020, 06:41:02 PM
Those limitations and sounds can easily be replicated in the Pro 3.

If you take a power circular saw, unplug it, and use it to grind down a piece of wood manually using only the blade and elbow grease -- you have simulated one form of the limitation in the sense that you did it without power.  However you have not accurately simulated the experience one would have using legacy wood carving tools.  At the end of the day you might have a cut up piece of wood and be able to say you did it the hard way, but you have not recreated the authentic experience.

I get what you're saying..... I can make almost any synth sound mostly like any other synth, whether working with a limited synth and trying to make it sound like a more full featured one or vice versa....but don't forget, I'm describing the journey, not the end product.  Some of us find nostalgia inspiring, and it becomes part of the journey; additionally most people cannot be convinced that something should inspire them more than what already does.

Do you record your music on tape or direct to wax?

A lot of times I don't record at all, I will let it play straight out of my monitors for my own listening enjoyment.  I'm not involved in music professionally, so the music I create is not intended to entertain others.   I decided to make my money in software engineering rather than music, a career path I've never regretted.   I have not shared a song online since 2009.  I have to stress, it's the journey of the creation process I'm after, not the end product of the music.  Sometimes I want to hear something I wrote in the car just to remind myself how much fun I had creating it, but that's about the extent of it.   But I discard far more music than I keep.  Making music for me is like meditation for some...  Just a form of escapism that I truly enjoy.

... Don't take that to imply I'm opposed to newer synths with newer tech and more features.  I'm interested in those as well, but my interest in reissues isn't going away any time soon.

You know as someone who shoots on film and has spent thousands of dollars on old movie cameras and film stock. I understand what you are saying.

As I was typing that, I remembered you had an interest in replicating John Carpenter's sound, so I was pretty sure there was some common ground in there somewhere  ;)

But much like The Thing I would like to imitate and evolve at once. ;)
Title: Re: Next New DSI Instrument
Post by: Manbird on October 28, 2020, 08:18:31 PM
Please, for the love of all that is holy, no more reissues. I really would hate to see Sequential fall down that rabbit hole. Let’s move forward please. A Pro One reissue makes no sense other than a gimmick. What exactly would it offer that a Pro 3 cant?

It would be capable of all of the limitations of the original that resulted in a lot of vintage music sounding the way it did.  Surely you realize there is an entire culture around carpentry and woodworking without using power tools?  Because some folks enjoy the creativity (and in many cases the differences in outcome of the final product) that results from working within creative limitations.  The chair you create without power tools isn't going to be able to do everything that a chair from Ikea or La-Z-Boy can do, but the creation of it can be a HELL of a lot more satisfying than placing an order online.  Same kinda deal with vintage synths.

For some of us, the experience of the journey of music making and sound design is far more important than how many features a synth has, or how many tracks we sell, or other measures, and vintage gear provides a hell of a journey.


Those limitations and sounds can easily be replicated in the Pro 3.


I think possibly that the "replication of limitations out of a menu of many options" idea misses the point a bit, if I may poetically mangle your Pro 3 notion. I don't actually want to record on cassette 4-track anymore, and I find value in Pro Tools, Logic, Studio One and such, but what I long for is the making creative use of limitations. I dream of fewer options, not more.   

I posted ages back in the "What should DSI/Sequential do next?" sweepstakes that I'd love to see a polyphonic Pro One. I wasn't really serious, but my point was that a non-programmable poly that just kinda "did its thing and not much more" was very appealing to me. Limitation is appealing. We have so much of every possible everything, we're utterly swamped and generally overloaded/overwhelmed in life these days. The longer I spend on earth, the more music I make/release and the more synths/guitars/etc get added to my stack of worldly possessions, the more I dream of giving it all away except for a single (fill in the blank.)

That there are some people startled that the new P5 *only* has a mono output and no effects is funny to me. I'm not a retro-headed fiend, but I certainly never found a synth I love more than the Prophet 5. My Pro One gives me the same satisfaction. I tweak it, it sounds great, I record a track with it. The Pro One was my first synth, it's pretty much an archetypal synth, far as I can tell. I'm not actually invested in suggesting what Sequential should do next, but I deeply appreciate that Dave has re-issued the P5. I'd never knock a company for making something that works beautifully, sounds so good and brings people joy. A newly built (slightly sturdier) Pro One? It's an instrument loved by so many. They got it right the first time, and an imagined reissue would only make it available to more people. Nowt wrong with that.   
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: A Thousand Eyes on October 28, 2020, 09:22:21 PM
But much like The Thing I would like to imitate and evolve at once. ;)

R.I.P. Morricone
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on October 28, 2020, 10:42:58 PM
Egads, if Uli ever touches the Evolver - any Evolver - I will move to another planet so as never to see or hear it. 
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on October 28, 2020, 11:56:57 PM
Egads, if Uli ever touches the Evolver - any Evolver - I will move to another planet so as never to see or hear it.

I feel the same way if Dave decides to start doing more reissues.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on October 29, 2020, 04:37:40 AM
I think there's definitely a finite limit on the number of products they would embark on recreating, but given the initial order demand for the P5/10 Rev4 (according to Dave.. he's kicking himself wondering why they didn't do this 10 years ago), I think a Pro One re-issue would make a lot of sense.  The exception to that might be the fact that the Pro One was originally an affordable/down market synth.  Dave might feel there are too many down-market competitors in this space already, and that a reissue wouldn't offer enough to warrant a modern "made in USA" price tag.  If he could do a reissue Pro One for the approximate price difference between market value of a vintage P5 and the reissue, then personally I think he would have a winner.

Despite there being a lot of demand for the Prophet-5/10, I would expect this kind of reissue to be a one-off. While the Pro 3 might not be exactly what one would call a limited instrument, it's probably the one Sequential instrument that's related the most to the Pro-One ever since the latter was released.

And as LoboLives pointed out, no doubt the Pro3 can sound like a Pro One.  But, if I search Youtube for videos of the Pro3, while many of them sound great (and all the features, filter options, sequencer, etc. look like much fun), not one of the videos I've seen captures the soul of the use cases of the original Pro One the way that the P5/10 reissue captures the original.  So from that perspective, having a synth with the look and feel of the original, that includes the same ranges of parameters, might strike the right chord with a lot of fans of vintage gear (and at the same time might be relatively inexpensive to produce, being such a simple instrument).  Dave could split his product line into "legacy" (reissue) and newer innovations, using successes of the P5 to expand the company's product line.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on October 29, 2020, 05:26:32 AM
And as LoboLives pointed out, no doubt the Pro3 can sound like a Pro One.  But, if I search Youtube for videos of the Pro3, while many of them sound great (and all the features, filter options, sequencer, etc. look like much fun), not one of the videos I've seen captures the soul of the use cases of the original Pro One the way that the P5/10 reissue captures the original.  So from that perspective, having a synth with the look and feel of the original, that includes the same ranges of parameters, might strike the right chord with a lot of fans of vintage gear (and at the same time might be relatively inexpensive to produce, being such a simple instrument).  Dave could split his product line into "legacy" (reissue) and newer innovations, using successes of the P5 to expand the company's product line.

As for the use cases of the Pro-One and the Pro 3: Due to the different features both instruments provide, musicians are of course using them in different manners. I do get your point about simplicity and immediacy, though, which is why I enjoy an instrument like the Moog Grandmother, for example. However, I do think that the Prophet-5/10 reissue won't cause something like a legacy series. No Sequential synth was/is as iconic as the Prophet-5 and the company's size doesn't exactly allow for split development teams.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on October 29, 2020, 05:46:04 AM
And as LoboLives pointed out, no doubt the Pro3 can sound like a Pro One.  But, if I search Youtube for videos of the Pro3, while many of them sound great (and all the features, filter options, sequencer, etc. look like much fun), not one of the videos I've seen captures the soul of the use cases of the original Pro One the way that the P5/10 reissue captures the original.  So from that perspective, having a synth with the look and feel of the original, that includes the same ranges of parameters, might strike the right chord with a lot of fans of vintage gear (and at the same time might be relatively inexpensive to produce, being such a simple instrument).  Dave could split his product line into "legacy" (reissue) and newer innovations, using successes of the P5 to expand the company's product line.

As for the use cases of the Pro-One and the Pro 3: Due to the different features both instruments provide, musicians are of course using them in different manners. I do get your point about simplicity and immediacy, though, which is why I enjoy an instrument like the Moog Grandmother, for example. However, I do think that the Prophet-5/10 reissue won't cause something like a legacy series. No Sequential synth was/is as iconic as the Prophet-5 and the company's size doesn't exactly allow for split development teams.

The P5/10 could very well be the last reissue ever done, but even if so, I will be thankful it happened.  I don't think that doing reissue synths is what Dave really wants to be doing, and the reissue of vintage gear is quite possibly a fad with a limited life span.  However I once did some rough spreadsheet estimations (key word being estimations), which were probably far from accurate, but may have been in the ballpark, in terms of what Sequentials net profits have been like (based on my own experiences with tech companies, manufacturing and cost estimates of doing business, the number of synth units sold), and my conclusion matches what Dave and Andrew said in a recent video that nobody is in the synth business to get rich.  This is why small synth companies have a habit of going out of business.  So from that perspective, when Dave temporarily puts down his engineer hat and puts on his business hat, I think he will go where the sales successes go first.  It's not an uncommon strategy to use the things you don't necessarily want to do / yet sell well, as a strategy for funding the things you do want to do.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: CoffeePockets on October 30, 2020, 06:01:11 PM
I like the pro 3, think it’s an awesome instrument. But I prefer the Pro One. My previous comment was mostly a joke but if I had the choice between a pro 3 and a new, excellent build quality pro one I’d go pro one in a heartbeat. For the same reasons that someone would want a reissue prophet 5/10 over a prophet 08, Rev2, 6, 12, whatever else. As far as dirty old monos go I’d say the pro one is nearly as legendary as the 5 is to polys. You synth guys are a fickle lot, crippling nostalgia Sunday-Wednesday, fervent futurists Thursday-Saturday  ???
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on November 01, 2020, 04:20:16 PM
I like the pro 3, think it’s an awesome instrument. But I prefer the Pro One. My previous comment was mostly a joke but if I had the choice between a pro 3 and a new, excellent build quality pro one I’d go pro one in a heartbeat. For the same reasons that someone would want a reissue prophet 5/10 over a prophet 08, Rev2, 6, 12, whatever else. As far as dirty old monos go I’d say the pro one is nearly as legendary as the 5 is to polys. You synth guys are a fickle lot, crippling nostalgia Sunday-Wednesday, fervent futurists Thursday-Saturday  ???

I once had a discussion about guitars and someone admittedly said Tom Anderson and Suhr guitar’s are miles better than a Fender. From the sound, the playability, the craftsmanship, everything...but they would still buy a cheap Mexican made Fender over them because Clapton and Hendrix played a Fender. I truly believe none of this interests in reissues (of anything really) has anything to do with sound. It’s just a name and status most are interested in. That’s perfectly reasonable just as long as they aren’t trying to convince people otherwise. 
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: Shaw on November 01, 2020, 05:41:51 PM
I like the pro 3, think it’s an awesome instrument. But I prefer the Pro One. My previous comment was mostly a joke but if I had the choice between a pro 3 and a new, excellent build quality pro one I’d go pro one in a heartbeat. For the same reasons that someone would want a reissue prophet 5/10 over a prophet 08, Rev2, 6, 12, whatever else. As far as dirty old monos go I’d say the pro one is nearly as legendary as the 5 is to polys. You synth guys are a fickle lot, crippling nostalgia Sunday-Wednesday, fervent futurists Thursday-Saturday  ???

I once had a discussion about guitars and someone admittedly said Tom Anderson and Suhr guitar’s are miles better than a Fender. From the sound, the playability, the craftsmanship, everything...but they would still buy a cheap Mexican made Fender over them because Clapton and Hendrix played a Fender. I truly believe none of this interests in reissues (of anything really) has anything to do with sound. It’s just a name and status most are interested in. That’s perfectly reasonable just as long as they aren’t trying to convince people otherwise.


Hmmm...
I don’t have any Fender Guitars.  Charvel and PRS, but no Fenders... though my Charvels do fall into the “Super Strat” category.  I do have some Fender basses, but no guitars.


As for the Prophet 5.  I’ve ordered it because I want that sound.  I would have ordered it if it were the same synth but called “Delphi 5” or some other meaningless moniker.


But this is a circular argument.  Some people truly want the status.  Some people truly want the sound that created the status.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on November 01, 2020, 06:08:49 PM
I like the pro 3, think it’s an awesome instrument. But I prefer the Pro One. My previous comment was mostly a joke but if I had the choice between a pro 3 and a new, excellent build quality pro one I’d go pro one in a heartbeat. For the same reasons that someone would want a reissue prophet 5/10 over a prophet 08, Rev2, 6, 12, whatever else. As far as dirty old monos go I’d say the pro one is nearly as legendary as the 5 is to polys. You synth guys are a fickle lot, crippling nostalgia Sunday-Wednesday, fervent futurists Thursday-Saturday  ???

I once had a discussion about guitars and someone admittedly said Tom Anderson and Suhr guitar’s are miles better than a Fender. From the sound, the playability, the craftsmanship, everything...but they would still buy a cheap Mexican made Fender over them because Clapton and Hendrix played a Fender. I truly believe none of this interests in reissues (of anything really) has anything to do with sound. It’s just a name and status most are interested in. That’s perfectly reasonable just as long as they aren’t trying to convince people otherwise.


Hmmm...
I don’t have any Fender Guitars.  Charvel and PRS, but no Fenders... though my Charvels do fall into the “Super Strat” category.  I do have some Fender basses, but no guitars.


As for the Prophet 5.  I’ve ordered it because I want that sound.  I would have ordered it if it were the same synth but called “Delphi 5” or some other meaningless moniker.


But this is a circular argument.  Some people truly want the status.  Some people truly want the sound that created the status.

I think the issue is though that no one is going to agree on “that sound.” Look at people on the forums already with these reissues. Not just the P5/10 but the Model D reissue, Odyssey reissue, MS20 reissue, 2600 reissue everything. “It doesn’t sound exactly like...”

It comes back to that dumb “play authentic” crap from Gibson.

I know someone who won’t buy a Charvel guitar because it doesn’t have the old logo on it...an intellectual carrot the mind boggles.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: Shaw on November 01, 2020, 06:32:12 PM
I like the pro 3, think it’s an awesome instrument. But I prefer the Pro One. My previous comment was mostly a joke but if I had the choice between a pro 3 and a new, excellent build quality pro one I’d go pro one in a heartbeat. For the same reasons that someone would want a reissue prophet 5/10 over a prophet 08, Rev2, 6, 12, whatever else. As far as dirty old monos go I’d say the pro one is nearly as legendary as the 5 is to polys. You synth guys are a fickle lot, crippling nostalgia Sunday-Wednesday, fervent futurists Thursday-Saturday  ???

I once had a discussion about guitars and someone admittedly said Tom Anderson and Suhr guitar’s are miles better than a Fender. From the sound, the playability, the craftsmanship, everything...but they would still buy a cheap Mexican made Fender over them because Clapton and Hendrix played a Fender. I truly believe none of this interests in reissues (of anything really) has anything to do with sound. It’s just a name and status most are interested in. That’s perfectly reasonable just as long as they aren’t trying to convince people otherwise.


Hmmm...
I don’t have any Fender Guitars.  Charvel and PRS, but no Fenders... though my Charvels do fall into the “Super Strat” category.  I do have some Fender basses, but no guitars.


As for the Prophet 5.  I’ve ordered it because I want that sound.  I would have ordered it if it were the same synth but called “Delphi 5” or some other meaningless moniker.


But this is a circular argument.  Some people truly want the status.  Some people truly want the sound that created the status.

I think the issue is though that no one is going to agree on “that sound.” Look at people on the forums already with these reissues. Not just the P5/10 but the Model D reissue, Odyssey reissue, MS20 reissue, 2600 reissue everything. “It doesn’t sound exactly like...”

It comes back to that dumb “play authentic” crap from Gibson.

I know someone who won’t buy a Charvel guitar because it doesn’t have the old logo on it...an intellectual carrot the mind boggles.


yeah... but for every idiot saying "it doesn't sound like that Rev3 my buddy has" there are about 50 folks with pre-orders who just can't wait.


As for the Charvels... I've got one that I ripped the pickups out and replaced with new DiMarzio's because... well, that's what I wanted.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on November 01, 2020, 06:50:11 PM
I like the pro 3, think it’s an awesome instrument. But I prefer the Pro One. My previous comment was mostly a joke but if I had the choice between a pro 3 and a new, excellent build quality pro one I’d go pro one in a heartbeat. For the same reasons that someone would want a reissue prophet 5/10 over a prophet 08, Rev2, 6, 12, whatever else. As far as dirty old monos go I’d say the pro one is nearly as legendary as the 5 is to polys. You synth guys are a fickle lot, crippling nostalgia Sunday-Wednesday, fervent futurists Thursday-Saturday  ???

I once had a discussion about guitars and someone admittedly said Tom Anderson and Suhr guitar’s are miles better than a Fender. From the sound, the playability, the craftsmanship, everything...but they would still buy a cheap Mexican made Fender over them because Clapton and Hendrix played a Fender. I truly believe none of this interests in reissues (of anything really) has anything to do with sound. It’s just a name and status most are interested in. That’s perfectly reasonable just as long as they aren’t trying to convince people otherwise.


Hmmm...
I don’t have any Fender Guitars.  Charvel and PRS, but no Fenders... though my Charvels do fall into the “Super Strat” category.  I do have some Fender basses, but no guitars.


As for the Prophet 5.  I’ve ordered it because I want that sound.  I would have ordered it if it were the same synth but called “Delphi 5” or some other meaningless moniker.


But this is a circular argument.  Some people truly want the status.  Some people truly want the sound that created the status.

I think the issue is though that no one is going to agree on “that sound.” Look at people on the forums already with these reissues. Not just the P5/10 but the Model D reissue, Odyssey reissue, MS20 reissue, 2600 reissue everything. “It doesn’t sound exactly like...”

It comes back to that dumb “play authentic” crap from Gibson.

I know someone who won’t buy a Charvel guitar because it doesn’t have the old logo on it...an intellectual carrot the mind boggles.


yeah... but for every idiot saying "it doesn't sound like that Rev3 my buddy has" there are about 50 folks with pre-orders who just can't wait.


As for the Charvels... I've got one that I ripped the pickups out and replaced with new DiMarzio's because... well, that's what I wanted.

Oh yeah and I really hope those 50 people who can’t wait become the vocal majority rather than the negative Nancys.

I was looking into a Charvel myself but with the new BC Rich lineup, I immediately changed my plans and already am looking at buying three models at once. Lol

Still might get a Charvel down the road and tune it down to A standard.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: Shaw on November 01, 2020, 07:16:37 PM
I like the pro 3, think it’s an awesome instrument. But I prefer the Pro One. My previous comment was mostly a joke but if I had the choice between a pro 3 and a new, excellent build quality pro one I’d go pro one in a heartbeat. For the same reasons that someone would want a reissue prophet 5/10 over a prophet 08, Rev2, 6, 12, whatever else. As far as dirty old monos go I’d say the pro one is nearly as legendary as the 5 is to polys. You synth guys are a fickle lot, crippling nostalgia Sunday-Wednesday, fervent futurists Thursday-Saturday  ???

I once had a discussion about guitars and someone admittedly said Tom Anderson and Suhr guitar’s are miles better than a Fender. From the sound, the playability, the craftsmanship, everything...but they would still buy a cheap Mexican made Fender over them because Clapton and Hendrix played a Fender. I truly believe none of this interests in reissues (of anything really) has anything to do with sound. It’s just a name and status most are interested in. That’s perfectly reasonable just as long as they aren’t trying to convince people otherwise.


Hmmm...
I don’t have any Fender Guitars.  Charvel and PRS, but no Fenders... though my Charvels do fall into the “Super Strat” category.  I do have some Fender basses, but no guitars.


As for the Prophet 5.  I’ve ordered it because I want that sound.  I would have ordered it if it were the same synth but called “Delphi 5” or some other meaningless moniker.


But this is a circular argument.  Some people truly want the status.  Some people truly want the sound that created the status.

I think the issue is though that no one is going to agree on “that sound.” Look at people on the forums already with these reissues. Not just the P5/10 but the Model D reissue, Odyssey reissue, MS20 reissue, 2600 reissue everything. “It doesn’t sound exactly like...”

It comes back to that dumb “play authentic” crap from Gibson.

I know someone who won’t buy a Charvel guitar because it doesn’t have the old logo on it...an intellectual carrot the mind boggles.


yeah... but for every idiot saying "it doesn't sound like that Rev3 my buddy has" there are about 50 folks with pre-orders who just can't wait.


As for the Charvels... I've got one that I ripped the pickups out and replaced with new DiMarzio's because... well, that's what I wanted.

Oh yeah and I really hope those 50 people who can’t wait become the vocal majority rather than the negative Nancys.

I was looking into a Charvel myself but with the new BC Rich lineup, I immediately changed my plans and already am looking at buying three models at once. Lol

Still might get a Charvel down the road and tune it down to A standard.


Not sure the style of music that you are getting guitar(s) for, but the Guthrie Govan model Charvel is the best guitar I’ve ever played.  Easily.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on November 01, 2020, 07:21:41 PM
I like the pro 3, think it’s an awesome instrument. But I prefer the Pro One. My previous comment was mostly a joke but if I had the choice between a pro 3 and a new, excellent build quality pro one I’d go pro one in a heartbeat. For the same reasons that someone would want a reissue prophet 5/10 over a prophet 08, Rev2, 6, 12, whatever else. As far as dirty old monos go I’d say the pro one is nearly as legendary as the 5 is to polys. You synth guys are a fickle lot, crippling nostalgia Sunday-Wednesday, fervent futurists Thursday-Saturday  ???

I once had a discussion about guitars and someone admittedly said Tom Anderson and Suhr guitar’s are miles better than a Fender. From the sound, the playability, the craftsmanship, everything...but they would still buy a cheap Mexican made Fender over them because Clapton and Hendrix played a Fender. I truly believe none of this interests in reissues (of anything really) has anything to do with sound. It’s just a name and status most are interested in. That’s perfectly reasonable just as long as they aren’t trying to convince people otherwise.


Hmmm...
I don’t have any Fender Guitars.  Charvel and PRS, but no Fenders... though my Charvels do fall into the “Super Strat” category.  I do have some Fender basses, but no guitars.


As for the Prophet 5.  I’ve ordered it because I want that sound.  I would have ordered it if it were the same synth but called “Delphi 5” or some other meaningless moniker.


But this is a circular argument.  Some people truly want the status.  Some people truly want the sound that created the status.

I think the issue is though that no one is going to agree on “that sound.” Look at people on the forums already with these reissues. Not just the P5/10 but the Model D reissue, Odyssey reissue, MS20 reissue, 2600 reissue everything. “It doesn’t sound exactly like...”

It comes back to that dumb “play authentic” crap from Gibson.

I know someone who won’t buy a Charvel guitar because it doesn’t have the old logo on it...an intellectual carrot the mind boggles.


yeah... but for every idiot saying "it doesn't sound like that Rev3 my buddy has" there are about 50 folks with pre-orders who just can't wait.


As for the Charvels... I've got one that I ripped the pickups out and replaced with new DiMarzio's because... well, that's what I wanted.

Oh yeah and I really hope those 50 people who can’t wait become the vocal majority rather than the negative Nancys.

I was looking into a Charvel myself but with the new BC Rich lineup, I immediately changed my plans and already am looking at buying three models at once. Lol

Still might get a Charvel down the road and tune it down to A standard.


Not sure the style of music that you are getting guitar(s) for, but the Guthrie Govan model Charvel is the best guitar I’ve ever played.  Easily.

Mostly Death, Thrash, Grind Metal or blues. Already have a Fender Strat for the standard rock stuff. Will never buy a Gibson.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on November 01, 2020, 11:24:40 PM
yeah... but for every idiot saying "it doesn't sound like that Rev3 my buddy has" there are about 50 folks with pre-orders who just can't wait.

Indeed. Let's not forget the basic rule of forums: Those who are simply happy and satisfied tend to be quieter than those who like to complain or found any issues.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: Shaw on November 06, 2020, 06:06:53 PM
yeah... but for every idiot saying "it doesn't sound like that Rev3 my buddy has" there are about 50 folks with pre-orders who just can't wait.

Indeed. Let's not forget the basic rule of forums: Those who are simply happy and satisfied tend to be quieter than those who like to complain or found any issues.


Looking at the recent trajectory of Sequential products, I just can’t help but think that one of their 2 new products currently in development has to be something that would fall along the continuum of the PEK or P12... digital/wavetable + analog oscillators, analogue filters and signal path...


It just seems like a no-brainer at this point...


... or a drum machine.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on November 06, 2020, 06:13:07 PM
yeah... but for every idiot saying "it doesn't sound like that Rev3 my buddy has" there are about 50 folks with pre-orders who just can't wait.

Indeed. Let's not forget the basic rule of forums: Those who are simply happy and satisfied tend to be quieter than those who like to complain or found any issues.


Looking at the recent trajectory of Sequential products, I just can’t help but think that one of their 2 new products currently in development has to be something that would fall along the continuum of the PEK or P12... digital/wavetable + analog oscillators, analogue filters and signal path...


It just seems like a no-brainer at this point...


... or a drum machine.

I can’t see Sequential doing another drum machine myself but I can certainly see the VCO/Wavetable architecture in a poly synth.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: Shaw on November 06, 2020, 06:44:43 PM
yeah... but for every idiot saying "it doesn't sound like that Rev3 my buddy has" there are about 50 folks with pre-orders who just can't wait.

Indeed. Let's not forget the basic rule of forums: Those who are simply happy and satisfied tend to be quieter than those who like to complain or found any issues.


Looking at the recent trajectory of Sequential products, I just can’t help but think that one of their 2 new products currently in development has to be something that would fall along the continuum of the PEK or P12... digital/wavetable + analog oscillators, analogue filters and signal path...


It just seems like a no-brainer at this point...


... or a drum machine.

I can’t see Sequential doing another drum machine myself but I can certainly see the VCO/Wavetable architecture in a poly synth.


Yeah... I was kind of joking about the drum machine.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on November 06, 2020, 09:21:43 PM
yeah... but for every idiot saying "it doesn't sound like that Rev3 my buddy has" there are about 50 folks with pre-orders who just can't wait.

Indeed. Let's not forget the basic rule of forums: Those who are simply happy and satisfied tend to be quieter than those who like to complain or found any issues.


Looking at the recent trajectory of Sequential products, I just can’t help but think that one of their 2 new products currently in development has to be something that would fall along the continuum of the PEK or P12... digital/wavetable + analog oscillators, analogue filters and signal path...


It just seems like a no-brainer at this point...


... or a drum machine.

I can’t see Sequential doing another drum machine myself but I can certainly see the VCO/Wavetable architecture in a poly synth.


Yeah... I was kind of joking about the drum machine.

Don't get me wrong. I want them to do a Tempest X or Tempest 2 but I just don't see Dave wanting to do it. I know he's joked that it be awesome to put the Prophet X technology into a drum machine but I think with the bad relationship with 8Dio and the whole fiasco with accountability on supporting the PX and the fact that Pym even said that it would be an absolute nightmare to implement the PX type technology in a multitimbral engine for a drum machine. So Tempest 2 or Tempest X....I don't see happening at all as much as I'd like it to.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: A Thousand Eyes on November 17, 2020, 08:02:47 PM
I can’t see Sequential doing another drum machine myself but I can certainly see the VCO/Wavetable architecture in a poly synth.
https://youtu.be/llMq9F5Kqwo?t=24081

Well Roger agrees with you. Dave was also interviewed on day 1 and said the next two projects are analog, which is a broad statement.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: Shaw on November 17, 2020, 08:52:06 PM
I can’t see Sequential doing another drum machine myself but I can certainly see the VCO/Wavetable architecture in a poly synth.
https://youtu.be/llMq9F5Kqwo?t=24081 (https://youtu.be/llMq9F5Kqwo?t=24081)

Well Roger agrees with you. Dave was also interviewed on day 1 and said the next two projects are analog, which is a broad statement.


Well, shit.  I had convinced myself that that it would be a PEK / Prophet 12 successor....  oh well.


I’m stumped... I don’t see another mono... I don’t see Dave & Co. taking on the Moog One... and they have the middle ground covered...  so???
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on November 18, 2020, 02:29:00 AM
Dave was also interviewed on day 1 and said the next two projects are analog, which is a broad statement.

For reference: https://youtu.be/7bxbjTAGqOg?t=19620
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: Shaw on November 18, 2020, 05:25:35 AM
Dave was also interviewed on day 1 and said the next two projects are analog, which is a broad statement.

For reference: https://youtu.be/7bxbjTAGqOg?t=19620

Interesting.  A Rev 3?
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on November 18, 2020, 06:12:01 AM
This is good news.  I'd say the most obvious gap in the Sequential line-up is that left by the Prophet 12.  Maybe a DCO version?  A reasonably priced sophisticated four-oscillator DCO powerhouse could be an impressive instrument.  And is there still no possibility for a return of the Poly Evolver?
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on November 18, 2020, 07:04:05 AM
And is there still no possibility for a return of the Poly Evolver?

I think the closest we'd get would be a polyphonic version of the Pro 3.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on November 18, 2020, 07:21:13 AM
I can’t see Sequential doing another drum machine myself but I can certainly see the VCO/Wavetable architecture in a poly synth.
https://youtu.be/llMq9F5Kqwo?t=24081

Well Roger agrees with you. Dave was also interviewed on day 1 and said the next two projects are analog, which is a broad statement.

This makes me glad I decided to pick up a Prophet 12, deferring my purchase of a Prophet 10 for a couple of months.  I just decided even if a new P12 or PE successor is announced, I wanted a P12 anyway.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on November 18, 2020, 07:23:03 AM
And is there still no possibility for a return of the Poly Evolver?

I think the closest we'd get would be a polyphonic version of the Pro 3.

Unless Dave does the unexpected...by doing what he occasionally does - the thorougly unexpected.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on November 18, 2020, 07:25:01 AM
This makes me glad I decided to pick up a Prophet 12, deferring my purchase of a Prophet 10 for a couple of months.  I just decided even if a new P12 or PE successor is announced, I wanted a P12 anyway.

A superb instrument in the total DSI/Sequential line.  Nothing else really touches it.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on November 18, 2020, 07:25:15 AM
And is there still no possibility for a return of the Poly Evolver?

I think the closest we'd get would be a polyphonic version of the Pro 3.

Unless Dave does the unexpected...by doing what he occasionally does - the thorougly unexpected.

Right, but the Poly Evolver didn't have the same status as the Prophet-5, nor was it as successful as the Prophet '08. Those are significant differences when it comes to another revision methinks.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on November 18, 2020, 07:29:08 AM
Right, but the Poly Evolver didn't have the same status as the Prophet-5, nor was it as successful as the Prophet '08. Those are significant differences when it comes to another revision methinks.

That's true on the purely practical level.  The Poly Evolver has always been the most esoteric of Dave's modern instruments.  But if we're to believe what Dave regularly claims - that their instrument decisions are based on what personally interests them at the time, rather than on the market - then the unexpected is still possible.  The sound of the PEK is still unique among DSI/Sequential instruments.  And there's much to be said, especially in these times, for a synthesizer that has a unique voice and character.

I admit, though, that I'm hoping against hope.

Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: A Thousand Eyes on November 18, 2020, 07:39:02 AM
A poly based off the Pro 3 would smoke a Poly Evolver in every way imaginable, aside from early aughts nostalgia, which I def do not share in, for those were dark times. It'd have better oscillators (both analog and digital), better filter (or even plural), better UI, better sequencer, etc. I'm sure SS will argue with this, but I'm not hearing it. ;)  I'm not sure we can entirely rule this out by Dave's comments. He did say analog, but he didn't say purely analog, even though that's what the question was getting at. Although he perhaps wasn't strictly talking about the next two synths, he did say, "if something has a VCO and filter", which a poly based off the Pro 3 would still fall under. It just happens to have digital oscillators as well. 
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: Shaw on November 18, 2020, 07:41:23 AM
From what little Dave said, it sounds like he is doing something new in the analog realm.  That has me the most curious.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on November 18, 2020, 07:42:10 AM
A poly based off the Pro 3 would smoke a Poly Evolver in every way imaginable, aside from early aughts nostalgia, which I def do not share in, for those were dark times. It'd have better oscillators (both analog and digital), better filter (or even plural), better UI, better sequencer, etc. I'm sure SS will argue with this, but I'm not hearing it. ;)  I'm not sure we can entirely rule this out by Dave's comments. He did say analog, but he didn't say purely analog, even though that's what the question was getting at. Although he perhaps wasn't strictly talking about the next two synths, he did say, "if something has a VCO and filter", which a poly based off the Pro 3 would still fall under. It just happens to have digital oscillators as well.

One difference , though: the Poly Evolver has four oscillators, the Pro 3 only three.  But I agree, the latter could be expanded into an excellent poly synth, and one that was more popularly appealing than a revived PEK.

As for nostalgia, I don't think the PEK is nearly old enough to meet such an interest.  It was available from the DSI website only a few years ago and is still a recent modern instrument.  I mean, who has an old favorite song, band, or composer that used a PEK?! 
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: A Thousand Eyes on November 18, 2020, 08:08:16 AM
One difference , though: the Poly Evolver has four oscillators, the Pro 3 only three.  But I agree, the latter could be expanded into an excellent poly synth, and one that was more popularly appealing than a revived PEK.
Yeah, I thought of that, but I'd assume it'd have two on the poly version. Even if not, I'd take the one over two static waveforms. Even though I'm not crazy about wavetables, this would be an absolute beast of a synth that one could go hog-wild on.

As for nostalgia, I never even thought of it.  I don't think the PEK is nearly old enough to meet such an interest.  Who has a favorite song, band, or composer that used a PEK?!
Some folks are easily nostalgic about things. To me, the SCI/Sequential (pre/post 2015) banner is where it's at. The DSI days were important, yet simply a necessary stepping stone for better things.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on November 18, 2020, 08:13:22 AM
As for nostalgia, I don't think the PEK is nearly old enough to meet such an interest.  It was available from the DSI website only a few years ago and is still a recent modern instrument.  I mean, who has an old favorite song, band, or composer that used a PEK?!

To some extend that might be said of any synth that has been released after the 1990s.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on November 18, 2020, 08:14:24 AM
The 'two new analog synthesizers' reference brings up another interesting question: What is the next instrument to be retired?  I think the most obvious answer is the Prophet 12 Module.  But what will follow that - the Prophet 6?  It's hard to believe.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on November 18, 2020, 08:16:02 AM
From what little Dave said, it sounds like he is doing something new in the analog realm.  That has me the most curious.

Well, he pretty much said that since oscillators and filters can behave differently with every new design, a plethora of new analog synths is always justified.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on November 18, 2020, 08:17:49 AM
The Poly Evolver Keyboard is a modern instrument, even if things have rapidly changed over the last decade.  I suppose the feature that most makes it seem dated is its limited voice count.  Yet, new four-voice instruments are still appearing.
 
Regardless, I'm not pushing this issue.  I'm happy with my "old" PEK.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: A Thousand Eyes on November 18, 2020, 08:18:01 AM
The 'two new analog synthesizers' reference brings up another interesting question: What is the next instrument to be retired?  I think the most obvious answer is the Prophet 12 Module.  But what will follow that - the Prophet 6?  It's hard to believe.
Dave recently said the P6 is still selling well despite the release of the P5/10, but a little more time might be needed to really assess that.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on November 18, 2020, 08:23:10 AM
The 'two new analog synthesizers' reference brings up another interesting question: What is the next instrument to be retired?  I think the most obvious answer is the Prophet 12 Module.  But what will follow that - the Prophet 6?  It's hard to believe.
Dave recently said the P6 is still selling well despite the release of the P5/10, but a little more time might be needed to really assess that.

I would expect the Prophet 5/10 would eventually cut into those sales.  After all, many people who bought a Prophet-6 did so because they actually wanted the real thing, the Prophet 5.  And not surprisingly, there are quite a few P-6s for sale on Ebay and Reverb.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on November 18, 2020, 08:49:11 AM
This makes me glad I decided to pick up a Prophet 12, deferring my purchase of a Prophet 10 for a couple of months.  I just decided even if a new P12 or PE successor is announced, I wanted a P12 anyway.

A superb instrument in the total DSI/Sequential line.  Nothing else really touches it.

Yes, I decided it had a particular sound missing from my toolbox, and I wanted to add it now, because I don't know what the future holds.  Even if successive products are introduced with better features, they may not always capture the signature sound of the original.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: jok3r on November 18, 2020, 01:38:20 PM
Dave was also interviewed on day 1 and said the next two projects are analog, which is a broad statement.

For reference: https://youtu.be/7bxbjTAGqOg?t=19620

Interesting.  A Rev 3?

How would that look like? I remember someone describing the idea some time ago, but I can't find it anymore.

Actually there are not much things, that I would want from a Rev3 in comparison to the Rev2. An option to configure the LFOs as global... LFO slew like on the P12, or at least slewed random as new waveform... and a better effects engine with three effect slots (e.g. different modulations, different delays and different reverbs... similar to polybrute or PEAK), or at least two per Layer like on the P6 (yes, it has only one "layer"). The analog distortion of the P6 would be cool, too.

I don't know how much of that could be done to the actual Rev2 per software update. There were rumors about a further Rev2 update some time ago... I still keep my fingers crossed that some of the above is coming.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: A Thousand Eyes on November 18, 2020, 01:45:49 PM
How would that look like? I remember someone describing the idea some time ago, but I can't find it anymore.

https://forum.sequential.com/index.php?topic=3015.0

I'm guessing the main thing people would want is the SSI2144 filter.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on November 18, 2020, 03:06:29 PM
Well just cause Dave says they are both analog synths doesn’t mean they are only analog synths. The Korg Prologue is still considers an analog poly synth despite having a digital oscillator alongside two VCOs perhaps that’s the case here. But if it’s not....

I still say we are going to see a smaller poly synth based on the Mophox4. Almost like half of a REV2. Just a simple four voice DCO poly synth that’s under $1000. Probably will have its own set of unique features. Perhaps a multitimbral synth? With four single mono synth engines that can be split/stacked or polystacked for four not polyphony.

The second I can see being a VCO based bi timbral synth with an keyboard with Poly Aftertouch.

Then again we might just be getting more reissues.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on November 18, 2020, 03:40:09 PM
Well just cause Dave says they are both analog synths doesn’t mean they are only analog synths. The Korg Prologue is still considers an analog poly synth despite having a digital oscillator alongside two VCOs perhaps that’s the case here.

True.

I still say we are going to see a smaller poly synth based on the Mophox4. Almost like half of a REV2. Just a simple four voice DCO poly synth that’s under $1000.

I think Sequential left that market behind due to the stiff competition. I'd consider the REV2 the entry model now.

The second I can see being a VCO based bi timbral synth with an keyboard with Poly Aftertouch.

Too expensive. They would have to develop their own keyboard to do so, as no one can currently outsource a keyboard with poly aftertouch (there's no Fatar for keyboards that feature poly aftertouch). Since all of their synths are capable of responding to poly aftertouch already, it's up to us whether we'd like to get an extra keyboard or an MPE controller for that matter. Especially with regard to the latter option, this actually makes a lot of sense, since we all have different preferences.

Then again we might just be getting more reissues.

Nah, don't think so. I'm still convinced the Prophet-5/10 is a one-off. There's also no synth that has been as iconic as the Prophet-5 in the Sequential universe. The Pro-One would have been a strong contender … before the release of the Pro 3 that is. And the VS was mostly Chris Meyer's and Josh Jeffe's baby.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on November 18, 2020, 04:11:27 PM
Another thing that has been mentioned on a couple of occasions is that Sequential are going to build off the Prophet-5/10's vintage knob technology on upcoming products.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on November 18, 2020, 04:52:21 PM
Sequential would unfortunately have to partner with Expressive E but I don’t think they would want to really take away anything from their Osmose....then again Kawaii partnered with Nord so who knows.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on November 26, 2020, 05:59:22 PM
Always fun to speculate about what's next.  Great interview with Dave here.
My takeaway is that next two instruments will be analog (it's been said elsewhere already), at least a year away (mid year or fall 2021), and will be all new instruments versus re-issues.

https://youtu.be/rlZKKwQAmSI
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: SynthWolf on December 23, 2020, 06:07:39 PM
This is the place to dream about what you'd like to see DSI make next.

Personally, I'm still awaiting "the big one," the sort of large-scale polyphonic bi-timbral synthesizer, strong in the fundamentals of synthesis but not loaded down with additional features, that would be a worthy replacement for the Prophet '08.  In fact, the Prophet '08 is a great place to start.  Add two more oscillators, a high pass filter, longer envelope times, possibly a few more voices, onboard delay, and I'd be in synthesizer paradise.  I'm fine with eliminating the arpeggiator and sequencer, if that will help to reduce the price tag.  Make this a real keyboard player's instrument. 

I'm hoping DSI will some day make an instrument that will allow me to move on from either the Poly Evolver or the Prophet '08, something that doesn't suffer from the common modern ailments of thin-sounding oscillators or filters, too few voices, or too short a keyboard.  And of course, make both keyboard and knobby module versions of the instrument.  I'm still hoping.

I really like the sound of that.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on January 11, 2021, 07:07:13 PM
Kind of surprised nobody is talking about the OBX trademark Dave registered a few days ago..  provides a rather strong hint at what's coming in the fall!

Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: A Thousand Eyes on January 11, 2021, 07:42:25 PM
That's rather unfortunate if that turns out to be the case... I'm still waiting for a P12 Rev2 with an SSI (preferably the 2140) filter.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 11, 2021, 07:55:03 PM
If that's the case then I think it's safe to say that Uli is dictating what Sequential do more so than Dave Smith.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on January 11, 2021, 07:55:17 PM
That's rather unfortunate if that turns out to be the case... I'm still waiting for a P12 Rev2 with an SSI (preferably the 2140) filter. 

I imagine we'll see a P12 Rev2 or maybe a Poly Evolver redux at some point.  The vintage synth market is on fire right now though, I can't blame Dave for taking advantage of it (glad he did actually, I'm having a ball with my P10).  I told myself no more keyboards after the P10, but damn...  for an OBX, I might have to make room for just one more.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on January 11, 2021, 07:58:09 PM
If that's the case then I think it's safe to say that Uli is dictating what Sequential do more so than Dave Smith.

I'm sure it's a factor.  But if an OBX announcement preemptively dilutes interest in the "UBXa", then good for Dave.  I'm no fan of the Uli.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 11, 2021, 08:00:17 PM
If that's the case then I think it's safe to say that Uli is dictating what Sequential do more so than Dave Smith.

I'm sure it's a factor.  But if an OBX announcement preemptively dilutes interest in the "UBXa", then good for Dave.  I'm no fan of the Uli.

Except the OBXA isn't the same as an OBX.

In fact most of the popular Oberheim sounds came from an OBXa which was Curtis based and Bi-Timbral....so doing a monotimbral SEM based poly synth....well.....saves me money.

If one can't do 1984 on an Oberheim Poly Synth then GTFO.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on January 12, 2021, 04:02:58 AM
If that's the case then I think it's safe to say that Uli is dictating what Sequential do more so than Dave Smith.

I'm sure it's a factor.  But if an OBX announcement preemptively dilutes interest in the "UBXa", then good for Dave.  I'm no fan of the Uli.

Except the OBXA isn't the same as an OBX.

In fact most of the popular Oberheim sounds came from an OBXa which was Curtis based and Bi-Timbral....so doing a monotimbral SEM based poly synth....well.....saves me money.

If one can't do 1984 on an Oberheim Poly Synth then GTFO.

For me, buying a hardware synth only to replicate a specific sound on a specific record would be missing the point.  I'm interested in capturing the soul and vibe of a particular instrument, while creating new stuff.   Lots of synths can play "Jump" convincingly enough.  And as iconic as the 1984 album is, I don't really consider it as a pillar of the type of sound I want to create.

The OBX seems to be generally regarded as the "better sounding" (more character, more aggressive) of the two, and because the OBXa doesn't have poly mod, given a choice I think a lot of folks would prefer the OBX.

Besides, if we can have a filter switch in the Prophet 5/10 to toggle between the two revision types, it is fully reasonable to expect that Dave might put a switch in the new product to flip between OBX and OBXa filters.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 12, 2021, 04:33:10 AM
Besides, if we can have a filter switch in the Prophet 5/10 to toggle between the two revision types, it is fully reasonable to expect that Dave might put a switch in the new product to flip between OBX and OBXa filters.

In case of the OB-X it would be more sensible to allow for all filter modes. Although the filter of the OB-X was the same as in the SEMs, it only allowed for lowpass mode, simply because all other connections weren't used. So allowing for full state-variable operation and adding a BP button would be a nice upgrade.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 12, 2021, 05:36:53 AM
If that's the case then I think it's safe to say that Uli is dictating what Sequential do more so than Dave Smith.

I'm sure it's a factor.  But if an OBX announcement preemptively dilutes interest in the "UBXa", then good for Dave.  I'm no fan of the Uli.

Except the OBXA isn't the same as an OBX.

In fact most of the popular Oberheim sounds came from an OBXa which was Curtis based and Bi-Timbral....so doing a monotimbral SEM based poly synth....well.....saves me money.

If one can't do 1984 on an Oberheim Poly Synth then GTFO.

For me, buying a hardware synth only to replicate a specific sound on a specific record would be missing the point.  I'm interested in capturing the soul and vibe of a particular instrument, while creating new stuff.   Lots of synths can play "Jump" convincingly enough.  And as iconic as the 1984 album is, I don't really consider it as a pillar of the type of sound I want to create.

The OBX seems to be generally regarded as the "better sounding" (more character, more aggressive) of the two, and because the OBXa doesn't have poly mod, given a choice I think a lot of folks would prefer the OBX.

Besides, if we can have a filter switch in the Prophet 5/10 to toggle between the two revision types, it is fully reasonable to expect that Dave might put a switch in the new product to flip between OBX and OBXa filters.

I think people personally would prefer splits and layers.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: A Thousand Eyes on January 12, 2021, 06:17:32 AM
Despite what many folks will claim based purely off older out of reach things being automatically more desirable to many, with the addition of the vintage knob I actually think the OB-6 is the vastly superior instrument. On a more subjective note, I also think the OB-6 is aesthetically the better looking of the two and it's not the size of a house. Furthermore, Abstrakt Instruments has a module version (with Tom's blessing supposedly) called the VS-1. The only real plus I see the OB-X having is five octaves.

While also not what I want, I thought the OB-Xa or OB-8 would have gained more intrigue because while they're not as highly regarded to the purists, they're more iconic to the masses. Plus they have the same available components (the VCO and VCF) as the rev 3 of the P5 (that's in the rev 4), which would more importantly for Sequential's line-up compete less with the OB-6. The crazy thing is how much both (Xa/8) sound much more Oberheim (sharper/buzzier) than a P5 clone, despite having the two major components that many people consider what makes up the majority of the character. I suppose having both the OB-X & OB-Xa/8 filters would make sense given the P5/10. I actually found myself using the 3320 just as much as the 2140 on the rev 4. I find that people vastly overrate things based on chronological priority, in this case the rev 1/2 over the 3.

It's my opinion that a knobby Matrix-12 rev 2 with the 3340 VCOs and 3320 VCFs (or dual SEMs that are 12dB and 24dB switchable) would be more tactile and better sounding than the original. Plus the foundation is already there from the REV2.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: jok3r on January 12, 2021, 06:30:09 AM
Oh no, please not... since I canceled my PolyBrute for buying some bass pedals, GAS hits me hard at the moment... so hard, that I want to have a P10, although I didn't want to have one first (but the sound and knobs and wood...).

I can't stand another classic synth that I want to buy, but can't  ;D
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 12, 2021, 08:26:25 AM
If one can't do 1984 on an Oberheim Poly Synth then GTFO.

In fact most sources claim that an OB-X was used during the recording while an OB-Xa was used on tour.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: Manbird on January 12, 2021, 10:06:10 AM
If that's the case then I think it's safe to say that Uli is dictating what Sequential do more so than Dave Smith.

I'm sure it's a factor.  But if an OBX announcement preemptively dilutes interest in the "UBXa", then good for Dave.  I'm no fan of the Uli.

Except the OBXA isn't the same as an OBX.

In fact most of the popular Oberheim sounds came from an OBXa which was Curtis based and Bi-Timbral....so doing a monotimbral SEM based poly synth....well.....saves me money.

If one can't do 1984 on an Oberheim Poly Synth then GTFO.

For me, buying a hardware synth only to replicate a specific sound on a specific record would be missing the point.  I'm interested in capturing the soul and vibe of a particular instrument, while creating new stuff.   Lots of synths can play "Jump" convincingly enough.  And as iconic as the 1984 album is, I don't really consider it as a pillar of the type of sound I want to create.

The OBX seems to be generally regarded as the "better sounding" (more character, more aggressive) of the two, and because the OBXa doesn't have poly mod, given a choice I think a lot of folks would prefer the OBX.

Besides, if we can have a filter switch in the Prophet 5/10 to toggle between the two revision types, it is fully reasonable to expect that Dave might put a switch in the new product to flip between OBX and OBXa filters.

I think people personally would prefer splits and layers.

As a personal people, I can say I've never had much interest in splits and layers!!
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 12, 2021, 12:10:12 PM
If one can't do 1984 on an Oberheim Poly Synth then GTFO.

In fact most sources claim that an OB-X was used during the recording while an OB-Xa was used on tour.

I mean the track 1984 is clearly a split keyboard. Retrosound recreated it on his own OBXa.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 12, 2021, 12:16:15 PM
In either case I should be thankful that Dave is saving me so much money. May as well do a Pro One reissue next. Didn’t Dave say the next two instruments are analog? Well OBX and Pro One. Why not? Go for it. Saves me money.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 12, 2021, 12:22:34 PM
I mean the track 1984 is clearly a split keyboard. Retrosound recreated it on his own OBXa.

In the comments to his video Retrosound mentioned that an OB-X was used on the album. You don't need splits and layers in the studio, as you can always multi-track.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: chysn on January 12, 2021, 12:53:30 PM
You don't need splits and layers in the studio, as you can always multi-track.

Nor polyphony...  :)
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on January 12, 2021, 03:05:39 PM
You don't need splits and layers in the studio, as you can always multi-track.

Nor polyphony...  :)

I actually don't get the same thing out of multi-tracking that I do with a split keyboard patch, or with a particular polyphony count.   I have no doubt that someone who is a better musician than I could, but I have no formal music training, and sometimes great things come from having both my hands so close together on two different sounds simultaneously, things that I'm unable to duplicate any other way.   It even matters whether I have one hand on two separate keyboards versus both hands on same, and if two separate keyboards, I get different musical results depending on if the boards are on the same vertical axis or stacked one above the other.

That said, it does not impact the fact that I'm jonesing for an OBX module.  I do not want an anatomically correct OBXa unless it doubles as a storage bin :)
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: A Thousand Eyes on January 12, 2021, 03:24:47 PM
That said, it does not impact the fact that I'm jonesing for an OBX module.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smQy6BvZbHc

Does splits/layers and has an output for each voice.

Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on January 12, 2021, 04:58:14 PM
That said, it does not impact the fact that I'm jonesing for an OBX module.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smQy6BvZbHc

Does splits/layers and has an output for each voice.

It sounds nice.. to me it does sound "based on" an OBX more than simply sounding like an OBX, in that particular demo at least.  In fact there is a certain sound I hear from my OB6 that I don't hear from this synth.  Love the filter on a cartridge approach.  I'm not paying $3400 for a four voice module though, at least I think that's what the online store implies?  4 voices at the base price which can be upgrade to 6 or 8?   I think from a relatively unknown vendor that price point is out of my comfort zone.  I don't have a problem plonking down the bucks for a P10 from Sequential.  I like the fact that 20 years from now, even if Sequential itself isn't around, there will be plenty of folks willing and able to service their synths due to sheer sales volume.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 12, 2021, 05:07:44 PM
That said, it does not impact the fact that I'm jonesing for an OBX module.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smQy6BvZbHc

Does splits/layers and has an output for each voice.

"It doesn't say "OBX" and it doesn't have the "Oberheim" name on it."
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on January 12, 2021, 07:15:50 PM
"It doesn't say "OBX" and it doesn't have the "Oberheim" name on it."

If it were a video of an actual OBX and the same sound was coming out of it, I would still say the video is not a proper showcase of the character potential of an OBX.

Hope that makes sense.  I'm not saying that this synth and the OBX can't sound alike (I can take almost any two synths and make them sound alike if I cherry pick the sounds to make my point).   I'm saying that, if this synth is truly capable of fully capturing all facets of the OBX's character, it's not showcasing it very well in that video.

Its just like the videos that attempt to show how the P6 and P5/10 sound the same.   The two synths CAN sound pretty much the same, with certain sounds and when pressed to do so, it's just that by their nature, they generally don't sound the same.   They both sound great, just not the same.

If this synth is trying to replicate an OBX, then let them demo it side by side with the exact same patch settings loaded on this and a vintage OBX.   If Dave and crew come do release an OBX reissue, I'm sure they expect that same level of scrutiny that they know is inevitable. 

But, I don't think this product is saying it replicates the OBX...  they are only saying it's based on it.



Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 12, 2021, 08:12:55 PM
It would be absolutely hilarious if the next two Sequential products this year are an OBX reissue and Pro One reissue. Dave may as well just sell the company to Uli at that point.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on January 13, 2021, 04:34:57 AM
It would be absolutely hilarious if the next two Sequential products this year are an OBX reissue and Pro One reissue. Dave may as well just sell the company to Uli at that point.

I understand that vintage reissues are not what you're looking forward to, but isn't your perspective a bit biased toward personal interests, while ignoring the bigger picture?  To me, comparing Dave Smith to Uli Behringer is something approaching blasphemy;  simultaneously, I do understand where your comments are coming from based on what you and I have discussed in these forums in other threads. 

But the reality is that to my knowledge, nobody else is doing proper reissues of vintage poly synths at the moment, thoroughly replicating the sound / feel/ vibe / magic of the original.  Meanwhile, we have LOTS of companies creating new, innovative products, inventing new approaches to synthesis, etc., not to mention all of rapid progress and very economical innovation that happens at the purely software (in the box) level.

So taking that fact into consideration, and considering this clearly defined imbalance in the vintage hardware space, wouldn't it be mostly self-serving to suggest that Sequential should stop being the only vendor on the planet doing it right, so that your needs can be addressed?

Let's say the situation is flipped, and Sequential starts trying to reinvent the wheel and spends a lot of R&D money to come up with something that has never existed, those of us who would like an OBX need to look to another company for authentic and well-executed vintage synth remakes.   What company do you suggest I turn to?  Don't say Uli, because he doesn't pass the authentic and well-executed criteria.  Fly-by-night companies that are run by 2 people with very limited industry experience that aren't going to be in business in 5 years don't count... the company must have a track record of standing behind their products and great warranty service.

I'm not knocking your opinion or perspective here.   Just suggesting that you consider more than that and look at it from all sides.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 13, 2021, 08:39:29 AM
Yes, Dave's re-issues are the real thing, comparable to Korg's re-issues of ARPs, and a thousand miles above those of Behringer.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: jok3r on January 13, 2021, 10:00:51 AM
There was a post from someone in the Arturia PolyBrute thread, saying since I have all my bases covered with my current synth setup and I should rather go for the sound I'm really after. I thought about that some weeks and came to the conclusion that this is really exactly the thing I want to do. So I came to the conclusion that I really don't need a PolyBrute, because it can do everything... I need Prophets and Oberheims to do just the things they were doing masterfully for decades, because that is the sound I'm loving the most.

At the moment I'm struggelng between the P6 and P10... and am very thankful to have this choice. My opinion about remakes changed a little bit.

From a customers view, I'm thankful that I can get the sound I'm after in an authentic reproduction of the original manufacturer and could never understand why they didn't start to build it years ago. There was request and a market for it as long as I'm into synth.
From a manufactures view, I would use this request and market to have my corporation on solid ground. Furthermore I could not stand the fact, that another manufacturer is building my ideas, and people will buy it there just because they don't get it from me (discussions about price points aside).

So the result for me is: I want to have a VCO poly from Sequential that give me the Prophet sound. For my taste and what I heared the P6 can deliver that too, while having some more feautes... the P10 on the other hand seems more like an "instrument" to me. Don't get me wrong (because we had this discussion in another thread), every synth is an instrument. But the P10 is more like the instrument I would put in my living room next to my piano... it's more about "feeling" in this case.

After coming to this point after years, I noticed that I want to have "the Oberheim" sound, too. And if Dave really comes with an OB X it would give me the same struggle with the OB 6. In this case I could even ignore the fact, that Dave is not the original manufacturer... but at least the manufacturer that I would love to see building Oberheim products, because Dave and Tom seem to be friends.

I don't want to say, that manufacturers should build their old stuff with high priority... I just think it would be smart to have them in their current portfolio... always. And since this is not the case it will take a time slot to reintegrate them in which there will be no "new" product.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 13, 2021, 10:17:23 AM
I need Prophets and Oberheims to do just the things they were doing masterfully for decades, because that is the sound I'm loving the most.

I have always been of this point of view and wanted nothing more than the standard Prophet character and limited features.  And the same for the Oberheim.  I would gladly sell all of my equipment for these new re-issues.  The problem is, of course, the cost, which is a real handicap in creating your ideal set up.  Sometimes I consider selling all of my DSI instruments to finance one magnificent synthesizer - say, a Prophet 10 keyboard/module pair.  It's so very tempting to downsize in such a grand way.  But it's also musically advantageous to have several instruments for live orchestrated arrangements.  In that case, the Rev2 is a perfect choice.  But here's the real problem: all of Sequential's instruments are fabulous.  And that's why we all swing back and forth between them.  But I know exactly how you feel, Jok3r.  After considering the re-issues, I find myself saying, "Did we really need any of these other new instruments?"  Answering only for myself, emphatically no!
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: A Thousand Eyes on January 13, 2021, 10:45:36 AM
I think we should be clear that nothing is confirmed yet. Perhaps this is much ado about nothing! The real issue as I see it is when considering the consistent productivity and longevity of Dave (& co.), there's no other peer in the industry when it comes to releasing exciting and often uniquely innovative instruments. The reissue of the timeless P5 is a no-brainer, but anything beyond that is questionable. I'd hate to see Sequential turn into a greatest hits band. More importantly, I'm already starting to see the first signs of fatigue of the market being flooded with reissues set in with some consumers.

Yes, we need new instruments. I for one need a new hybrid synth. I've come to the conclusion that analog filters are still necessary for the character and bite that I'm personally looking for. Digital oscillators offer a wide swath of incredible sounds that the classic VCO/DCO synths can't possibly create. I still don't think there's a hybrid on the market that can match the P12. The only shortcoming of the P12 is there's better filters available these days and the lack of sequencer for using it to control parameters with the notes off. FPGA oscillators and expanded effects/wavetables/voices would also be a plus. 
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 13, 2021, 10:48:14 AM
Yes, we need new instruments because few of us can afford the re-issues.  I was stating only that I, personally, would be content with the old classics, and not that there shouldn't be new synthesizers.  Besides, who's concerned that there won't be a steady flow of innumerable new instruments?  By comparison, the re-issues will always be few in number.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: jok3r on January 13, 2021, 10:50:12 AM
In that case, the Rev2 is a perfect choice.  But here's the real problem: all of Sequential's instruments are fabulous.  And that's why we all swing back and forth between them.

That's the only thing I'm pretty sure at the moment: the Rev2 is going nowhere. It is the reason why I see my grounds covered. It's an outstanding analog synth that can do pretty much every sound I need for my cover music rock band, etc. Sure, my Kronos could do this as well, but the Rev2 just sounds better than the VA engine of the Kronos. But the pair of them together really is everything I need for my every day business.

The only thing I could sell is my PEAK. And I would easily do that... even though I love it really much. But since I can't play any gigs at the moment, I needed to take money from my regular income to get the remaing ~3500€. And my wife, who I really love, would not be very happy about that, since I already bought this bass pedals some weeks ago. We're not broke, but there are other things to pay for in live as well (at least in her opinion ;-) ). So without any gigs it will take me until the end of the year until I could by a P10. It would be cool if there was an OBX anounced by then, so it would be realistic to get one two years from now.

At least this has the advantage of not buying a synth to early, as I did with the Rev2, which I returned due to voice errors and bought it a year later again, after they sorted out the errors.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 13, 2021, 02:30:43 PM
It would be absolutely hilarious if the next two Sequential products this year are an OBX reissue and Pro One reissue. Dave may as well just sell the company to Uli at that point.

I understand that vintage reissues are not what you're looking forward to, but isn't your perspective a bit biased toward personal interests, while ignoring the bigger picture?  To me, comparing Dave Smith to Uli Behringer is something approaching blasphemy;  simultaneously, I do understand where your comments are coming from based on what you and I have discussed in these forums in other threads. 

But the reality is that to my knowledge, nobody else is doing proper reissues of vintage poly synths at the moment, thoroughly replicating the sound / feel/ vibe / magic of the original.  Meanwhile, we have LOTS of companies creating new, innovative products, inventing new approaches to synthesis, etc., not to mention all of rapid progress and very economical innovation that happens at the purely software (in the box) level.

So taking that fact into consideration, and considering this clearly defined imbalance in the vintage hardware space, wouldn't it be mostly self-serving to suggest that Sequential should stop being the only vendor on the planet doing it right, so that your needs can be addressed?

Let's say the situation is flipped, and Sequential starts trying to reinvent the wheel and spends a lot of R&D money to come up with something that has never existed, those of us who would like an OBX need to look to another company for authentic and well-executed vintage synth remakes.   What company do you suggest I turn to?  Don't say Uli, because he doesn't pass the authentic and well-executed criteria.  Fly-by-night companies that are run by 2 people with very limited industry experience that aren't going to be in business in 5 years don't count... the company must have a track record of standing behind their products and great warranty service.

I'm not knocking your opinion or perspective here.   Just suggesting that you consider more than that and look at it from all sides.

If you want a vintage synth, buy a vintage synth. Maintenance issues? Well....that's why you don't buy vintage synths.

Like I said, It's helping my wallet so let Dave reissue everything. Prophet VS. Prophet 10 Double keyboard, Prophet T8, Prophet 2000, DrumTrax, Tom, A440, everything. Go for it. Then reissue all of Tom's stuff too. Four Voice, Two Voice, DMX, OB-8. OB-1, OBX, OBXa.

I just find it funny that at NAMM when discussing the Pro 3 "Well, we didn't put wavetables in here just because of things like the HydraSynth. We aren't really concerned with other companies or follow what trends are."

The lie detector determined that was a lie......

Look Dave can do whatever he wants and people can buy whatever they want. I think it's dumb and I'll certainly say so if people ask me but I'll stand by my statement that Uli is essentially dictating what Sequential does more than Dave.

I'm obviously in the minority here so maybe it's best I don't visit these forums until Sequential release something of interest to me. 
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on January 13, 2021, 03:49:09 PM
If you want a vintage synth, buy a vintage synth. Maintenance issues? Well....that's why you don't buy vintage synths.

But I don't want a vintage synth.  I want a brand new one without someone else's wear and tear or questionable service history, with a new warranty, that preserves the sound and soul of the original but has more features, runs cooler and more reliably, for less than the cost of a vintage one.  That's why I bought the P10, at least.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: jok3r on January 13, 2021, 04:01:43 PM
If you want a vintage synth, buy a vintage synth. Maintenance issues? Well....that's why you don't buy vintage synths.

But I don't want a vintage synth.  I want a brand new one without someone else's wear and tear or questionable service history, with a new warranty, that preserves the sound and soul of the original but has more features, runs cooler and more reliably, for less than the cost of a vintage one.  That's why I bought the P10, at least.

That's exactly the point. I want to have a brand new synth with contemporary connections like USB, etc., but soundwise based on the well known and proven techniques from decades ago.

I just realized that I can say the same about cars, too  :D
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on January 13, 2021, 04:41:14 PM
If you want a vintage synth, buy a vintage synth. Maintenance issues? Well....that's why you don't buy vintage synths.

But I don't want a vintage synth.  I want a brand new one without someone else's wear and tear or questionable service history, with a new warranty, that preserves the sound and soul of the original but has more features, runs cooler and more reliably, for less than the cost of a vintage one.  That's why I bought the P10, at least.

That's exactly the point. I want to have a brand new synth with contemporary connections like USB, etc., but soundwise based on the well known and proven techniques from decades ago.

I just realized that I can say the same about cars, too  :D

Also, the ability to switch between Rev 1/2 and 3 filters is vastly underrated, both for the difference in sound for patches that are highly dependent on envelope curve, and just the additional dimension it adds to overall sound design and experimentation.  I believe there is a modification for vintage ones that accomplishes the same thing, but having this feature spanking new, in addition to velocity and aftertouch is really amazing.  And of course the vintage knob (which is great on the P6 and OB6 but is better on the Rev4).
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 13, 2021, 05:13:02 PM
I just find it funny that at NAMM when discussing the Pro 3 "Well, we didn't put wavetables in here just because of things like the HydraSynth. We aren't really concerned with other companies or follow what trends are."

The lie detector determined that was a lie....

Have whatever "minority" views you want.  They're all welcome here.  But what is not welcome is the above sort of accusation.  Regardless of what your opinion may be, please watch the lack of charity.

Dave has said numerous times that the decisions at Sequential are made independently of what is happening in the synthesizer market.  They simply make the instruments they want to make and when they want to make them.  Those statements don't have to be absolute - nor, I think, does anyone presume they are.  They don't require that the company is utterly clueless as to what's going on around them, so that their decisions are made in a vacuum.  You've unnecessarily interpreted Dave's words in the worst way possible.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: A Thousand Eyes on January 13, 2021, 07:41:46 PM
Last time I saw Lobo rage quit a forum was because he didn't get his TVP reissue. Now he's quitting because there might be an OB-X reissue ... Go figure.

May the lovable scamp make a triumphant return.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: jok3r on January 14, 2021, 12:36:43 AM
Now I'm a little bit shocked. I didn't think he would actually quit. Seems like the way this company is going is of really big concern for him...
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: Paul Dither on January 14, 2021, 02:46:53 AM
Well, it seems like being in a different time zone made me coming too late to the party. I still would like to respond to Lobo's last post in a general manner, i.e. without the intention of badmouthing someone who just left the building.

I start with an innocuous topic: The advantage of a reissued vintage synth is that it comes with today's technological advancements, has no immediate maintenance issues, and can be purchased at a lower price (at least when compared to what's being offered on the used market).

As for the accusation that Dave was lying at NAMM (not sure how that was related to the actually existing wavetables in the Pro 3): What Dave usually means by such statements is that Sequential is not a company driven by a market research team. That doesn't necessarily mean that they have to bury their heads in the sand.

And finally about Sequential's instruments and how interesting they are to various users: No company can design products for everyone. If they would try to do so or aim for including every possible feature anybody could ever request, they'd end up with Homer Simpson's infamous car design, plenty of featuritis (can't be vaccinated), and essentially a bad instrument.

Also: No one should take it too personal if Sequential doesn't always release exactly what one had in mind. Such attitudes say more about a user's consumer behavior as opposed to actual musical needs.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: jg666 on January 14, 2021, 02:55:29 AM
Well, it seems like being in a different time zone made me coming too late to the party. I still would like to respond to Lobo's last post in a general manner, i.e. without the intention of badmouthing someone who just left the building.

I start with an innocuous topic: The advantage of a reissued vintage synth is that it comes with today's technological advancements, has no immediate maintenance issues, and can be purchased at a lower price (at least when compared to what's being offered the used market).

As for the accusation that Dave was lying at NAMM (not sure how that was related to the actually existing wavetables in the Pro 3): What Dave usually means by such statements is that Sequential is not a company driven by a market research team. That doesn't necessarily mean that they have to bury their heads in the sand.

And finally about Sequential's instruments and how interesting they are to various users: No company can design products for everyone. If they would try to do so or aim for including every possible feature anybody could ever request, they'd end up with Homer Simpson's infamous car design, plenty of featuritis (can't be vaccinated), and essentially a bad instrument.

Also: No one should take it too personal if Sequential doesn't always release exactly what one had in mind. Such attitudes say more about a user's consumer behavior as opposed to actual musical needs.

I agree 100% with what you've said. I also know what Dave means because the company our company works for has the same beliefs about our software package. But, as you say, you can't ignore what the buying public seem to want so you are driven by both the latest trends and by your own desires to produce your own unique desires.

Apologies if my post doesn't seem to make much sense, I don't have the way with words that Paul has :)

@Lobo - it's a very common feeling at the moment to feel alienated and out on a limb, just try and smile through it all and enjoy the synths that you already own - that's my current moto :) I live alone and have not had anyone in my house since March last year and have not visited anyone else's house since then either. It's not easy coping with all these continual lockdowns but my keyboards keep me sane-ish !!

One other thing :) I think we’re very lucky to be living in an age where synths are plentiful and relatively affordable. I was born in 1961 and throughout my younger years from when I first noticed a synth sound in about 1969 I would lust after a synthesizer but with the knowledge that I could never afford to buy one as the prices were always so high. These days you can buy a whole lorry load of synths for the price that a single one might have cost back then !
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: jok3r on January 14, 2021, 04:37:11 AM
Also: No one should take it too personal if Sequential doesn't always release exactly what one had in mind. Such attitudes say more about a user's consumer behavior as opposed to actual musical needs.

I can't even begin to understand why someone should take a company's decision to build this or that personally. If a company is offering something I don't need, I just don't buy it. Simply as that.

Probably everyone has hopes for a specific kind of synth with specific features that would suit him well... and so do I. But I'm also hoping for peace in the whole world, being CO2 neutral and enough living room and food for all humans and animals. Should I take it personal and quit planet earth, because my dreams don't come true? It's just out of hand of a single customer to dictate what companys have to sell. It's in the hand of the many (the market) to make a company build the products that are wanted a lot. And currently there is a market for re-issues.

And I can fully understand that need for "old" synth. I'm in my early thirties now, born at the end of the 80s. The music that influenced me the most is therefore the 70s and 80s music my parents listened to, when I was a child. Until today I did not hear more pleasing and musical synth sounds than those produced by Prophets, Oberheims and Moogs. Unfortunately I'm too young to have had even a chance of buying the originals. And for the obvious and well known reasons I'm not interested in buying an unpredictable 40 years old instrument. I think a lot of younger synthesists have had similar influences and dream of having those synth themselfes.

But it is not only the sound itself, which one could also get with samples or "synth based on" older ones (more or less). It's the whole feeling and experience about playing such an instrument. As I said, I'm struggling between a P6, which does the job pretty well, and a P10. And at the moment I'm tending more towards the P10, because of those big knobs, the wood, the 5 octaves (especially this one, since I'm actually playing it by hand rather than sequencing from elsewhere). Only a new revision of basically the same instruments can give you that. Some modern improvements like aftertouch and velocity, USB and more memory, that don't change the sound engine itself are very welcome, too (I see aftertouch and velocity more as controllers than part of the sound engine).
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on January 14, 2021, 04:44:48 AM
Well, it seems like being in a different time zone made me coming too late to the party. I still would like to respond to Lobo's last post in a general manner, i.e. without the intention of badmouthing someone who just left the building.

I start with an innocuous topic: The advantage of a reissued vintage synth is that it comes with today's technological advancements, has no immediate maintenance issues, and can be purchased at a lower price (at least when compared to what's being offered on the used market).

As for the accusation that Dave was lying at NAMM (not sure how that was related to the actually existing wavetables in the Pro 3): What Dave usually means by such statements is that Sequential is not a company driven by a market research team. That doesn't necessarily mean that they have to bury their heads in the sand.

And finally about Sequential's instruments and how interesting they are to various users: No company can design products for everyone. If they would try to do so or aim for including every possible feature anybody could ever request, they'd end up with Homer Simpson's infamous car design, plenty of featuritis (can't be vaccinated), and essentially a bad instrument.

Also: No one should take it too personal if Sequential doesn't always release exactly what one had in mind. Such attitudes say more about a user's consumer behavior as opposed to actual musical needs.

An additional thought I would add:

When Dave's company was young, and focused solely on invention and innovation, they did not survive financially due to trends (like influx of inexpensive foreign digital synths) that fluctuate faster than a small company respond to. 

Personally I believe Dave still would prefer to innovate rather than reissue, but the thing is he is a MUCH wiser businessman than he was in the 80s.  He knows that the demand for vintage synths has been trending upward for a long time now, and by the nature of what it is, the trajectory is unlike to change anytime soon -- its possible that its peaking now, but even if so its unlikely to trend downward any time soon. 

From a business perspective, this means that reissues of classics like the P5/10, OBX, or Pro One can provide a long-term revenue stream that is unlikely to get knocked aside by "the latest and greatest" from another vendor anytime soon.   Assuming the interest vintage synths continues, these can provide stable capital to pursue his real dream of innovation.

I'm not pretending to know if that's Dave's actual strategy, just pointing out that it would make crystal clear sense if it were, based on what he's said in the past about reissues not being his true passion.

Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on January 14, 2021, 05:30:55 AM
One other thing :) I think we’re very lucky to be living in an age where synths are plentiful and relatively affordable. I was born in 1961 and throughout my younger years from when I first noticed a synth sound in about 1969 I would lust after a synthesizer but with the knowledge that I could never afford to buy one as the prices were always so high. These days you can buy a whole lorry load of synths for the price that a single one might have cost back then !

This is part of the appeal of reissues to me.  A Prophet 5 was so far out of reach for me financially when it was a "new innovation" that I didn't spend time lusting after it, it just wasn't happening.  So, for someone like me, the reissue is a dream come true -- being able to afford such an instrument brand new is a different feeling that buying one that's already been played hard over many decades... not that there is anything wrong with the latter, but buying a 40 year old synth (as cool as it is), to me does not represent a complete "full circle" recreation of that original dream that was once out of reach.

So for some of us, there is something nostalgically important to a reissue such as the P5/P10.  I understand why some younger folks may not understand the nostalgic connection now -- but I can almost promise they will one day, even if it is in the context of a different instrument.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: jg666 on January 14, 2021, 05:40:05 AM
One other thing :) I think we’re very lucky to be living in an age where synths are plentiful and relatively affordable. I was born in 1961 and throughout my younger years from when I first noticed a synth sound in about 1969 I would lust after a synthesizer but with the knowledge that I could never afford to buy one as the prices were always so high. These days you can buy a whole lorry load of synths for the price that a single one might have cost back then !

This is part of the appeal of reissues to me.  A Prophet 5 was so far out of reach for me financially when it was a "new innovation" that I didn't spend time lusting after it, it just wasn't happening.  So, for someone like me, the reissue is a dream come true -- being able to afford such an instrument brand new is a different feeling that buying one that's already been played hard over many decades... not that there is anything wrong with the latter, but buying a 40 year old synth (as cool as it is), to me does not represent a complete "full circle" recreation of that original dream that was once out of reach.

So for some of us, there is something nostalgically important to a reissue such as the P5/P10.  I understand why some younger folks may not understand the nostalgic connection now -- but I can almost promise they will one day, even if it is in the context of a different instrument.

Yes agree with you completely there :)

Personally, I trust people like Dave Smith to do the right thing to make sure that their company survives as having all these 'smaller' synth producers is vital in my opinion. If that means that these companies produce things I'm not really interested in, then so be it.... they're not in business just to please me  ;D

Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: chysn on January 14, 2021, 05:43:58 AM
Also: No one should take it too personal if Sequential doesn't always release exactly what one had in mind. Such attitudes say more about a user's consumer behavior as opposed to actual musical needs.

I can't even begin to understand why someone should take a company's decision to build this or that personally. If a company is offering something I don't need, I just don't buy it. Simply as that.

I waited five years for the Pro 3. I had to sit through the end of the Mopho SE, the introduction of the AS-1, and the entire product life cycle of the Pro 2. That's just the way it goes sometimes.

Quote
From a business perspective, this means that reissues of classics like the P5/10, OBX, or Pro One can provide a long-term revenue stream that is unlikely to get knocked aside by "the latest and greatest" from another vendor anytime soon.

Does this forum think there's a realistic chance that Sequential will re-issue the Pro One? That would be pretty awesome, actually.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on January 14, 2021, 07:07:26 AM
Does this forum think there's a realistic chance that Sequential will re-issue the Pro One? That would be pretty awesome, actually.

I'd love it if they did but I can think of at least one reason why they wouldn't -- they already collaborated with Pioneer with the Toraiz AS-1 and may have some sort of contractual obligation / limitation that relates to it.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on January 14, 2021, 10:17:43 AM
Just wanted to clear a few things up.

My leaving actually has nothing to do with Sequential or Dave or the trajectory in which the company seems to be going nor even the differences of opinion.

The “lie detector” remark was a Maury reference and was written with humour and not malice.

The reason why I left is because over the past year my mental health has deteriorated significantly and I’ve been struggling badly with depression and bi polar (which my father had and sadly runs in my family) I’ve separated with my partner of ten years, my mother’s health has gone down significantly since my father died. My city just went into another lockdown and possible curfew and as you can see from my past few posts, it’s caused me to unfortunately lash out and I do apologize for that. I try to avoid social media and a lot of times I come to these forums just for human interaction that doesn’t break down into foolish arguments and while I usually shrug things off I’ve found there are certain remarks made by some on here that seem like either an indirect or direct personal attack and unfortunately it’s just made my mental health worse.

In short the reason I’m leaving is simply because it’s not fair for me to lash out on you or for anyone on this forum to be subject to my mental health issues. I respect you all too much for that.  I have created an alternative account that will simply be used to obtain the latest OS downloads but I think maybe it’s best that until lockdown is over or perhaps until Sequential do something of interest to me, I don’t partake in these forums. This is simply goodbye for now, not goodbye forever.

P.S. The Two Voice Pro wasn’t a Two Voice reissue, it was a successor.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: A Thousand Eyes on January 14, 2021, 10:34:39 AM
Honestly you jump to conclusions without solid enough evidence far too hastily, but other than that you add nicely to the conversation. This forum would be a much more dull place without ya. Although sometimes taking time off is a good thing and I do it constantly only to realize I need it for updates, which gets me sucked right back in. Other than the Tempest section, this is probably the most civil discussion board I've been on.

P.S. If the TVP is a "successor" by adding a few new things, then so is the rev 4. Personally I don't consider that a valid argument as that's the exact excuse these cloning companies (that don't even give due credit) make.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: BobTheDog on January 14, 2021, 11:38:16 AM
Just wanted to clear a few things up.

My leaving actually has nothing to do with Sequential or Dave or the trajectory in which the company seems to be going nor even the differences of opinion.

The “lie detector” remark was a Maury reference and was written with humour and not malice.

The reason why I left is because over the past year my mental health has deteriorated significantly and I’ve been struggling badly with depression and bi polar (which my father had and sadly runs in my family) I’ve separated with my partner of ten years, my mother’s health has gone down significantly since my father died. My city just went into another lockdown and possible curfew and as you can see from my past few posts, it’s caused me to unfortunately lash out and I do apologize for that. I try to avoid social media and a lot of times I come to these forums just for human interaction that doesn’t break down into foolish arguments and while I usually shrug things off I’ve found there are certain remarks made by some on here that seem like either an indirect or direct personal attack and unfortunately it’s just made my mental health worse.

In short the reason I’m leaving is simply because it’s not fair for me to lash out on you or for anyone on this forum to be subject to my mental health issues. I respect you all too much for that.  I have created an alternative account that will simply be used to obtain the latest OS downloads but I think maybe it’s best that until lockdown is over or perhaps until Sequential do something of interest to me, I don’t partake in these forums. This is simply goodbye for now, not goodbye forever.

P.S. The Two Voice Pro wasn’t a Two Voice reissue, it was a successor.

Look after yourself there, I know from personal experience how things can get to people and effect the way they act. The thing to remember is things change again over time.

Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on January 14, 2021, 02:00:48 PM
Just wanted to clear a few things up.

My leaving actually has nothing to do with Sequential or Dave or the trajectory in which the company seems to be going nor even the differences of opinion.

The “lie detector” remark was a Maury reference and was written with humour and not malice.

The reason why I left is because over the past year my mental health has deteriorated significantly and I’ve been struggling badly with depression and bi polar (which my father had and sadly runs in my family) I’ve separated with my partner of ten years, my mother’s health has gone down significantly since my father died. My city just went into another lockdown and possible curfew and as you can see from my past few posts, it’s caused me to unfortunately lash out and I do apologize for that. I try to avoid social media and a lot of times I come to these forums just for human interaction that doesn’t break down into foolish arguments and while I usually shrug things off I’ve found there are certain remarks made by some on here that seem like either an indirect or direct personal attack and unfortunately it’s just made my mental health worse.

In short the reason I’m leaving is simply because it’s not fair for me to lash out on you or for anyone on this forum to be subject to my mental health issues. I respect you all too much for that.  I have created an alternative account that will simply be used to obtain the latest OS downloads but I think maybe it’s best that until lockdown is over or perhaps until Sequential do something of interest to me, I don’t partake in these forums. This is simply goodbye for now, not goodbye forever.

P.S. The Two Voice Pro wasn’t a Two Voice reissue, it was a successor.

Everything in the world is kind of broken right now, and it only compounds life's normal stresses, which is sounds like you've had a run of recently.  My long-time girlfriend's having a hard time with her family member's health issues, and its taking a toll on both her and me.  My music room is where I find myself going for my self-directed therapy, and where I want to spend my free time right now.

I enjoy reading your opinions on things even if I don't always agree with them... and as all of this is being discussed, I do want to say I hope that I --or more specifically my initial post about the OBX --wasn't the catalyst of bad things.  I go out of my way to avoid forum wars (or even civil discussions that start to show signs of going nowhere).

So, I hope you'll return when feeling better.

 
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 14, 2021, 02:35:45 PM
Lobolives, I understand your health issues and the added stress of the times.  It's more than enough to push us all over the edge.  But I was struck by your post late last night, and felt responsible to try to tone things down a bit.  Believe me, I responded to your remarks in the most restrained way I could, and edited my comments many times to remove all traces of heat. 

I hope you'll forget about this little incident, and continue with the forum at your normal level of involvement.  Peace. 
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: Quatschmacher on January 15, 2021, 09:25:11 AM
If that's the case then I think it's safe to say that Uli is dictating what Sequential do more so than Dave Smith.

I'm sure it's a factor.  But if an OBX announcement preemptively dilutes interest in the "UBXa", then good for Dave.  I'm no fan of the Uli.

Except the OBXA isn't the same as an OBX.

In fact most of the popular Oberheim sounds came from an OBXa which was Curtis based and Bi-Timbral....so doing a monotimbral SEM based poly synth....well.....saves me money.

If one can't do 1984 on an Oberheim Poly Synth then GTFO.

For me, buying a hardware synth only to replicate a specific sound on a specific record would be missing the point.  I'm interested in capturing the soul and vibe of a particular instrument, while creating new stuff.   Lots of synths can play "Jump" convincingly enough.  And as iconic as the 1984 album is, I don't really consider it as a pillar of the type of sound I want to create.

The OBX seems to be generally regarded as the "better sounding" (more character, more aggressive) of the two, and because the OBXa doesn't have poly mod, given a choice I think a lot of folks would prefer the OBX.

Besides, if we can have a filter switch in the Prophet 5/10 to toggle between the two revision types, it is fully reasonable to expect that Dave might put a switch in the new product to flip between OBX and OBXa filters.

Yep, I was thinking the exact same thing about the filter revision. If they do it, I’d imagine they’d put both in.

They are working on two new synths. I’m guessing OB and some kind of poly Pro 3/P12 thing.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 16, 2021, 03:21:56 PM
For what it's worth:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0b7-TypNt0
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: Enshroud on January 28, 2021, 02:26:54 AM


They are working on two new synths. I’m guessing OB and some kind of poly Pro 3/P12 thing.
[/quote]

A poly pro3/prophet 12 thing is the only way I would sell my pro3 and hydra but honestly, I’d sell them in a heartbeat for a sequential poly synth that had the pro3 filters, wavetables, effects and modulation.
I would even be willing to live without a complex sequencer Or VCOs (although I’d like them) as long as it still had the three analog Filters and analog envelopes of the pro3.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 28, 2021, 07:30:24 AM
Yes, a polyphonic version of the Pro 3 would be an instant winner, especially if they could keep it under $3,000.  And it seems impossible that Sequential would not produce it, the instrument is so obvious.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: timboréale on January 28, 2021, 07:39:08 AM
I would cry a little, having just bought a P12, but them's the breaks I guess.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: MrSmith on January 28, 2021, 07:55:02 AM
The digital oscilator on the pro 3 is so close to the analog ones i hope if we get a poly pro3 they go with a digital front end like the p12 but using the pro3 digital oscilators, similar to the summit from novation but with the sequential sound, Sort of a more hifi sounding p12,
 
Digital oscilators are so much more flexable with fm and wavetables and i think the one in the Pro 3 is a step up from the p12/pro2 ones
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: A Thousand Eyes on January 28, 2021, 08:50:32 AM
Digital oscilators are so much more flexable with fm and wavetables and i think the one in the Pro 3 is a step up from the p12/pro2 ones

Agreed. From my experience with the PX, Sequential's newer digital oscillators are up there with Novation's Oxford FPGAs and much better than the digital oscillators in Roland's JX/Xm, Nord Lead, Access Virus, etc. I can only imagine how good they would sound if they were FPGAs in a P12 rev2. As you said, digital oscillators are much more flexible. Also, I don't need a bunch of filters as that would lower the voice count and higher the cost. Just give the best of the best, which is the SSI2140. I think a 12db switch (along with the 24db ofc) is possible if I remember correctly and also add the option for low end loss compensation for resonance like Sequential did with the 2144 on the PX.   

I don't want the jack of all trades, master of nothing. If one wants the best analog front-end, then go with a P5/10. If one wants the best digital front-end synth, let's hope for a P12 successor.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on January 28, 2021, 09:11:46 AM
I don't want the jack of all trades, master of nothing. If one wants the best analog front-end, then go with a P5/10. If one wants the best digital front-end synth, let's hope for a P12 successor.

I'd like to see it personally, but because of the relatively low cost at which FM and wavetable synths can be produced, I wonder if the emerging products we see currently (more of which will no doubt follow) wont create a glut in the market that will cause Dave to want to focus on analog, an area he's clearly doing better than anyone else.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: A Thousand Eyes on January 28, 2021, 09:27:53 AM
There's just as much if not more a glut of cheap analog synths on the market, especially if these poly knock-offs actually start to see the light of day. Also, Sequential is an island onto itself. All they're going to do by sticking to purely analog synths is cannibalize their own market with such a single focused line-up.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on January 28, 2021, 09:36:06 AM
There's just as much if not more a glut of cheap analog synths on the market, especially if these poly knock-offs actually start to see the light of day. Also, Sequential is an island onto itself. All they're going to do by sticking to purely analog synths is cannibalize their own market with such a single focused line-up.

The difference I see though, is that the cheap analogs are generally accepted as inferior, thus not really competition in the premium market.  Digital can be done quite well on the cheap, the DX7 itself is evidence of that.  And Dave doesn't seem interested in producing down-market products, so...
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: A Thousand Eyes on January 28, 2021, 09:41:07 AM
When you're talking about cheap anything, the average Joe will not differentiate quality. Furthermore, there's a difference between purely digital and hybrid. 
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on January 28, 2021, 10:08:39 AM
When you're talking about cheap anything, the average Joe will not differentiate quality. Furthermore, there's a difference between purely digital and hybrid.

True about digital and hybrid, and Dave's approach to digital oscillators + analog filters is one reason I picked up a P12 module... it is a somewhat special bird in the realm of current offerings, and even if he releases a successor, that synth may not have the specific sound I grew fond of in the P12.

But in terms of avg Joes and quality.  I think there are a lot of people out there who will buy a DeepMind 12 knowing that its not a Prophet and fully acknowledging they'd rather have a Prophet.   Maybe they are just starting out or are just budget constrained. 

But then there are folks like me who are just unlikely to pay $3k for an 8 voice digital synth, because I can get plenty of digital inside the box with a $30 a plugin.  Even if price weren't the obstacle, I have to choose hardware space for my synths based on specific sound characteristics I can't easily get elsewhere. 

With digital, I can get many needs satisfied inside the box.  Analog, not so much.  I did some comparison testing between Repro-5 vst and the Prophet 10.   Every time I found a patch on Repro-5 that sounded particularly good, I started reproducing it on the the P10, and as expected the P10 ended up far surpassing the sound of the vst, and when the vst was close enough for a mix, it was usually using 40% of my CPU when chords were played.

So, even in the case of the P12, I was willing to give up $1,800 and the desk space a module takes.  For a good VCO analog that can't be faithfully captured by softsynths, the bar is higher.  Everyone's mileage varies, no doubt.

Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: A Thousand Eyes on January 28, 2021, 10:49:43 AM
I doubt most people will be able to differentiate between a good piece of software and hardware in a mix these days. From my experience, the hardest thing to replicate is a good filter. I've not yet come across a digital filter that offers the quality or bite of an actual good analog filter (such as the Moog Ladder, SSI/SSM, or SEM). In a mix even that might be negligible to the listener, but it will make a massive difference when I'm sitting in front of the actual instrument and creating said music.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: timboréale on January 28, 2021, 11:08:26 AM
That may be the case for casual listeners, but there still exist people who really love hearing a beautiful lead with all the bark and sizzle the original hardware gave it - you might not notice it's gone if it's translated to software, but if it's there it can absolutely vitalize the recording. A big part of that, to me, is not whether digital is accurate enough or whatever to the sound, but the dynamics behaviour, the playability of it. It takes an immense amount of extremely high level DSP mathematics and careful implementation to get a truly convincing analogue filter reproduction, and so those are both rare and computationally expensive. On the flip side of the argument, I'm not aware of any digital-only filters with their own, unique, nuances that grab the ear so compellingly yet, although there are certainly tons of implementations of standard filter styles and even (Modor comes to mind) some uniquely digital varieties out there. The problem is the math - analogue circuits behave in some highly complex ways, if subtle, and getting those complexities both identified (hard part 1) and modelled correctly (hard part 2) in a *dynamic and interactive manner with the rest of the system* (very hard part 3) is both a technical and mathematical challenge that is still not fully perfected. We can create ideal static filters, beautifully close and accurate "enough" emulations of analogue, and the mathematics hold the promise that it's possible to equal any analogue behaviour we wish - this much is clear. But the real world experience of such things often (though, not always) deviates from this on many counts.

So, I don't see it as an analogue-vs-digital thing at all, there are digital filters that sound far better than some analogue filters to my ears (of course, I am not saying there is a digital *Moog* or *Curtis* filter that sounds better than an analogue *Moog* or *Curtis* filter per se, just that *some* digital filters sound better than *other* analogue filters), and there are digital filters that can do things no analogue can at all (linear phase, for instance).

That said, as to whether it matters if a user can hear it "in a mix" or not - well, great music can be made on a toy guitar or a cheap accordion or, hell, a rubber chicken. But in many cases it's considered 'better' when performed on a more refined instrument. And that's a big part of why it matters at all.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on January 28, 2021, 11:37:26 AM

Once a synth is in the mix, there are infinite ways that the sonic details tend to get diluted, such that the differences between hardware and software narrow.  Even in the example I mentioned before, Repro5 vs the P10... if I put both synths in a track with other instruments, FX, etc. then it would be hard to distinguish them.

But I can say that I definitely notice a difference between stuff I recorded using only software versus all hardware.  Those details which are very noticeable during the initial composition stage, then less noticeable after recording, still seem to add up to more than the sum of their parts in the end.  For that reason I try to use software only in a supplemental role these days.  I still do still use FX plugins quite a bit, because I don't want to have a pedal or rack for every possible config.

Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: MrSmith on January 28, 2021, 11:42:41 AM
The sound produced is only one factor, soft synths are excellent these days and can always be sent through outboard to enhance or warm up

There is still a certain mojo you get with quality hardware synths that is slightly lacking in software, im not sure how much that translates to a finished production

A big part is the process of making the sound, its much more enjoyable and inspiring to me to hook up a keyboard and jam as opposed to sitting on a computer, i find it more creative and find more little nuances with hardware than software

Its also always there ready to turn on and play or record whenever i need, no maping controls or not working with new os it doesnt use all my cpu when i play a chord! and it will probably be like that as long as i have it

Jamming with a collection of synths you love is much more rewarding and creative for me and the sound difference while maybe negligable in a mix to my ears makes a big enough difference to make it worthwhile

 

Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on January 28, 2021, 12:39:12 PM
The sound produced is only one factor, soft synths are excellent these days and can always be sent through outboard to enhance or warm up

There is still a certain mojo you get with quality hardware synths that is slightly lacking in software, im not sure how much that translates to a finished production

A big part is the process of making the sound, its much more enjoyable and inspiring to me to hook up a keyboard and jam as opposed to sitting on a computer, i find it more creative and find more little nuances with hardware than software

Its also always there ready to turn on and play or record whenever i need, no maping controls or not working with new os it doesn't use all my cpu when i play a chord! and it will probably be like that as long as i have it

Jamming with a collection of synths you love is much more rewarding and creative for me and the sound difference while maybe negligible in a mix to my ears makes a big enough difference to make it worthwhile

Another factor that makes a difference is what you're listening to it on.   There are some artists from Spotify that I know from their Youtube channels are all in-the-box for certain tracks, and others that I know are always hardware.  On my phone with earbuds, or on the stereo I had in my previous car, I can't say I noticed the difference that much.  Then I bought a new car last year, and opted for the premium stereo (which isn't perfect but is quite good), and at least on the vehicle built-in Spotify app, it really makes differences standout that I didn't notice before.  Even with some specific known cases aside, there are times where some tracks have this slightly dulled sound that reminds me of my plugins, even if I can't prove it, sounds like a pure DAW song.

But yeah, for me the initial inspiration of hearing the analog nature of a synth is huge, even if a lot of it gets lost the moment its bounced down.  Not being an audio engineer, I'm baffled as to why recorded audio in Cubase seems to preserve the fidelity, while sampling same audio any other way seems to dull it down noticeably.

Steering back toward the topic of new instruments, I'd just like to say that I am no longer really jonesing for a Pro One reissue (thought I would potentially still buy one if the price is right).  The reason is that I've become more familiar with my Moog Slim Phatty, and learned some settings that basically make it sound like a dead ringer replacement for the sound I was looking for from Pro One.  It might be the last mono synth I'll ever need, in fact.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: blewis on February 06, 2021, 05:56:07 AM
Well many of us wanted a Poly Pro 2 for years and it seemed obvious and it never happened.

What makes the Pro 3 different, one might ask. I think the Moog One makes it different. An opinion.

I think there’s a real desire for something on the Moog One scale with a Sequential style UI - a UI and UX that is more simple and more straightforward.

Don’t get me wrong, I loved the Moog One interface from a geeky perspective and I think it is a huge accomplishment.

I also think the Moog One set an upper limit on size and price for the industry. The industry needed a ceiling somewhere under the Schmidt.

A Poly Pro 3 is such a synth that matches up with my idea of a “Sequential Moog One”.

That concept didn’t exist when the Pro 2 was out. The Prophet X also tells Sequential how a higher priced product works with customers.

All of that and Sequential has got their vintage injection done and the time is ripe to continue towards their future.

Yes, a polyphonic version of the Pro 3 would be an instant winner, especially if they could keep it under $3,000.  And it seems impossible that Sequential would not produce it, the instrument is so obvious.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on February 06, 2021, 06:52:24 AM
Well many of us wanted a Poly Pro 2 for years and it seemed obvious and it never happened.

What makes the Pro 3 different, one might ask. I think the Moog One makes it different. An opinion.

I think there’s a real desire for something on the Moog One scale with a Sequential style UI - a UI and UX that is more simple and more straightforward.

Don’t get me wrong, I loved the Moog One interface from a geeky perspective and I think it is a huge accomplishment.

I also think the Moog One set an upper limit on size and price for the industry. The industry needed a ceiling somewhere under the Schmidt.

A Poly Pro 3 is such a synth that matches up with my idea of a “Sequential Moog One”.

That concept didn’t exist when the Pro 2 was out. The Prophet X also tells Sequential how a higher priced product works with customers.

All of that and Sequential has got their vintage injection done and the time is ripe to continue towards their future.

Yes, a polyphonic version of the Pro 3 would be an instant winner, especially if they could keep it under $3,000.  And it seems impossible that Sequential would not produce it, the instrument is so obvious.

Fingers crossed.

Don't get me wrong I would love to see something like a VCO monster or evolution to the Prophet 6 type architecture like Paul Dither's Prophet-8 design. I'd also like to see a dedicate FM synth or dedicated Wavetable synth from Sequential....like a successor to the Prophet 12 (again similar to the design Paul Dither did). However, with a Poly Synth with Pro 3 architecture we would get two VCOs anyway and hopefully two Wavetable oscillators. So we could get all the classic VCO analog sounds in addition to things like FM, Wavetables, Wave sequencing all with a sequencer and dual effects...if anything it would be an evolution as to what the Poly Evolver was. Just hope it comes in white or blue or something visually different than the rest of Sequential's lineup.


Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: timboréale on February 06, 2021, 08:00:53 AM
Just hope it comes in white or blue or something visually different than the rest of Sequential's lineup.

Dear gods no, please. Friends don't let friends buy white synths.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on February 06, 2021, 09:20:31 AM
Just hope it comes in white or blue or something visually different than the rest of Sequential's lineup.

Dear gods no, please. Friends don't let friends buy white synths.

Blue it is.

Also that white Prophet 12 looked mint.

Just be nice to spice up the Sequential catalog a bit visually. It’s a pretty redundant color scheme now.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: timboréale on February 06, 2021, 09:42:14 AM
Blue it is.

Also that white Prophet 12 looked mint.

Just be nice to spice up the Sequential catalog a bit visually. It’s a pretty redundant color scheme now.

I'm with Henry Ford on this: you can make my synths any colour as long as they're black with wood ends. I'll grandfather the Nords in on that statement, but only because they're red, which is marginally acceptable. I even sold on a Moog Subsequent 37CV limited edition because I hated the silver colour of it.

Fun fact: I was offered a brand new in box white Prophet 12 in place of the black floor model I was sold which is currently undergoing repair for various floor damage it endured. Even swap. I said hell no.

I *would* love it if I could get inverse-colour keyboards, though. Come to think of it, a dark charcoal grey synth with a striking reverse keyboard and red wheel illumination would look excellent.

That said, as long as I have a black option I won't begrudge you a blue one, in the spirit of the evolver line. Deal?  ;D
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: Quatschmacher on February 06, 2021, 12:15:48 PM
Blue it is.

Also that white Prophet 12 looked mint.

Just be nice to spice up the Sequential catalog a bit visually. It’s a pretty redundant color scheme now.

I'm with Henry Ford on this: you can make my synths any colour as long as they're black with wood ends. I'll grandfather the Nords in on that statement, but only because they're red, which is marginally acceptable. I even sold on a Moog Subsequent 37CV limited edition because I hated the silver colour of it.

Fun fact: I was offered a brand new in box white Prophet 12 in place of the black floor model I was sold which is currently undergoing repair for various floor damage it endured. Even swap. I said hell no.

I *would* love it if I could get inverse-colour keyboards, though. Come to think of it, a dark charcoal grey synth with a striking reverse keyboard and red wheel illumination would look excellent.

That said, as long as I have a black option I won't begrudge you a blue one, in the spirit of the evolver line. Deal?  ;D

Studiologic Sledge Black Edition might satisfy your craving for an inverse-colour keybed.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: Quatschmacher on February 06, 2021, 12:17:53 PM
Well many of us wanted a Poly Pro 2 for years and it seemed obvious and it never happened.

What makes the Pro 3 different, one might ask. I think the Moog One makes it different. An opinion.

I think there’s a real desire for something on the Moog One scale with a Sequential style UI - a UI and UX that is more simple and more straightforward.

Don’t get me wrong, I loved the Moog One interface from a geeky perspective and I think it is a huge accomplishment.

I also think the Moog One set an upper limit on size and price for the industry. The industry needed a ceiling somewhere under the Schmidt.

A Poly Pro 3 is such a synth that matches up with my idea of a “Sequential Moog One”.

That concept didn’t exist when the Pro 2 was out. The Prophet X also tells Sequential how a higher priced product works with customers.

All of that and Sequential has got their vintage injection done and the time is ripe to continue towards their future.

Yes, a polyphonic version of the Pro 3 would be an instant winner, especially if they could keep it under $3,000.  And it seems impossible that Sequential would not produce it, the instrument is so obvious.

Fingers crossed.

Don't get me wrong I would love to see something like a VCO monster or evolution to the Prophet 6 type architecture like Paul Dither's Prophet-8 design. I'd also like to see a dedicate FM synth or dedicated Wavetable synth from Sequential....like a successor to the Prophet 12 (again similar to the design Paul Dither did). However, with a Poly Synth with Pro 3 architecture we would get two VCOs anyway and hopefully two Wavetable oscillators. So we could get all the classic VCO analog sounds in addition to things like FM, Wavetables, Wave sequencing all with a sequencer and dual effects...if anything it would be an evolution as to what the Poly Evolver was. Just hope it comes in white or blue or something visually different than the rest of Sequential's lineup.

That P8 mock-up is pretty sweet and has some cool feature ideas. The only one I’d add is the ability for the master polymod depth to be controlled by wheel, velocity and aftertouch.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: chysn on February 06, 2021, 12:20:25 PM
Just be nice to spice up the Sequential catalog a bit visually. It’s a pretty redundant color scheme now.

Yes, totally. I loved the yellow of my old Mopho Keyboard. Then I paid extra so I could get a red Little Phatty. And I'm a big fan of the Moog Grandmother aesthetic. Why should guitarists have all the colors? Musical instruments don't necessarily need to look like Eisenhower-era ham radio equipment.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: timboréale on February 06, 2021, 12:43:29 PM
Studiologic Sledge Black Edition might satisfy your craving for an inverse-colour keybed.

Hah! The keybed is the only thing I like about that synth!  ;D
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on February 07, 2021, 02:45:46 AM
Just be nice to spice up the Sequential catalog a bit visually. It’s a pretty redundant color scheme now.

Yes, totally. I loved the yellow of my old Mopho Keyboard. Then I paid extra so I could get a red Little Phatty. And I'm a big fan of the Moog Grandmother aesthetic. Why should guitarists have all the colors? Musical instruments don't necessarily need to look like Eisenhower-era ham radio equipment.

Even things like the color of LEDs....I appreciate the Prophet X was yellowish/orange but when I saw the Pro 3 was yet another set of Red LEDs I grunted. I know one of the original ideas for the OB6 was to have blue LEDs. That would have looked great. Even if Dave refuses to offer white, blue or whatever color synths at least change the color of the LEDs.

It's what's different that stands out. I think regardless of how others might feel Sequential doing something a different color would make heads turn regardless if it was VCOs, Wavetables, FM. People would just be like "Wait...what's that all about?" Doing another black/grey with red LED synth with wooden end cheeks...I don't even think people would notice.

So sharp looking....
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: chysn on February 07, 2021, 03:46:42 AM
Red LEDs are good because they don’t ruin eyes’ dark adaptation.

That said, Pro 3’s multi-color sequencer lightshow is beautiful. The manual explains only a few of the colors, but it can be striking.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on February 07, 2021, 05:27:20 AM
Red LEDs are good because they don’t ruin eyes’ dark adaptation.

That said, Pro 3’s multi-color sequencer lightshow is beautiful. The manual explains only a few of the colors, but it can be striking.

Still....the Poly Evolver in the dark looks incredible with the blue lights.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8QuPCByxQI
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: timboréale on February 07, 2021, 05:53:02 AM
I have a medical condition that makes me extremely sensitive to blue light. I literally cannot handle blue LEDs at all unless they are very soft and dim And then only in low doses. So while the red/orange/yellow spectrum is excellent for interfaces, blues, greens, and teals give me a headache rapidly. I would not buy any synth with the blue/green spectrum colours for UI.

I also agree that red lighting makes low light stage and studio work much better by not ruining the performer's adjusted vision either.

I could definitely appreciate a nice amber though as a variance from the red.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on February 07, 2021, 06:24:00 AM
Well since the Pro 3 has multi color lights.

Maybe we'll get the option to be able to choose the color we want.

I guess your condition prevents you from Quantum/Iridium and Roland System 8?
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: timboréale on February 07, 2021, 07:17:18 AM
Well since the Pro 3 has multi color lights.

Maybe we'll get the option to be able to choose the color we want.

I guess your condition prevents you from Quantum/Iridium and Roland System 8?

They were total non-starters for me, that was among the top reasons why but by far not the only (I don't like the Waldorf interfaces or sound, really, and the System 8 is ghastly as a whole). The Pro-3 does concern me as I am definitely interested in one, but if I understand correctly the main UI is still red, and it's only the sequencer, in some modes, that is occasionally purple, blue or green, right?
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on February 07, 2021, 07:22:02 AM
Well since the Pro 3 has multi color lights.

Maybe we'll get the option to be able to choose the color we want.

I guess your condition prevents you from Quantum/Iridium and Roland System 8?

They were total non-starters for me, that was among the top reasons why but by far not the only (I don't like the Waldorf interfaces or sound, really, and the System 8 is ghastly as a whole). The Pro-3 does concern me as I am definitely interested in one, but if I understand correctly the main UI is still red, and it's only the sequencer, in some modes, that is occasionally purple, blue or green, right?

Yes. That is correct.

It's a shame you have to go through that. For me I was strongly considering the System 8 (due to it's FM engine, form factor also) because of it's green lights.

I wonder how expensive/problematic it would be to change the color of the LEDs on a Sequential synth in general or if that would void any warranty.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: timboréale on February 07, 2021, 07:33:04 AM
It's a shame you have to go through that. For me I was strongly considering the System 8 (due to it's FM engine, form factor also) because of it's green lights.

I wonder how expensive/problematic it would be to change the color of the LEDs on a Sequential synth in general or if that would void any warranty.

As I mentioned above: as long as I have the option for colours that work for me, I don't begrudge anybody else options for colours that do! :)

As for changing LED colour - those are surface mounted. You'd be doing a hell of a lot of manual, tedious, and usually extremely fine-pitch SMD resoldering AND you'd have to know the original spec of the LEDs to avoid blowing the drivers and/or destroying the LEDs on first power-up. That's not impossible, but it would be an almost insane amount of work with a high risk of damaging the synth at a low electronic level. It would absolutely void the warranty.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: proteus-ix on February 07, 2021, 08:59:03 PM

Still....the Poly Evolver in the dark looks incredible with the blue lights.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8QuPCByxQI

In theory, yes; in practice, the blue LEDs are so bright that it interferes with me seeing other details on the panel; it's not so much the color, which I love, but just if there was a way to tone them down.  I had to put electrical tape on the lights on the back because the light show was a constant distraction.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on February 07, 2021, 09:23:54 PM
I feel the same way.  The PEK's lights are just blinding.  And if someone is facing the four blue LFO lights on the back of the instrument for any amount of time, they're going to be walking into the walls afterwards.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: Soundquest on February 08, 2021, 09:57:29 AM
Naw,  PEK was designed to be in the "spotlight" so they made those LED's bright enough to come thru.   ;D
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on February 08, 2021, 10:19:50 AM
When I occasionally play a piece for my wife, she complains that those four LFO lights are just painful.  I have to face them towards the wall, but even the wall is emblazoned in flashing blue.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on February 08, 2021, 01:52:32 PM
When I occasionally play a piece for my wife, she complains that those four LFO lights are just painful.  I have to face them towards the wall, but even the wall is emblazoned in flashing blue.

Sometime back I installed a couple of LED bulbs with remote in my studio ceiling light, mostly for the ability to easily turn one bulb on or off, switch between cold/warm light, etc. and the additional colors were kind of a novelty bonus.  For the first few days I had them set to blue because it was different and gave the room a cool look when I was making music.

It took many days of sleep deficit before I realized my sleep was suddenly getting wrecked at night.  At first I attributed it to normal sleep disruptions, but it soon became obvious something was really wrong.  So I switched the light to one warm white and one red while making music, and viola, I was back to sleeping properly at night. 

I really didn't think about the effect of blue light on sleep when this was going on, so it wasn't a placebo effect... it seems for me at least blue light and a good nights sleep don't mix.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on February 08, 2021, 02:01:49 PM
Interesting.  Supposedly, it's true about the blue computer screen as well.  I've been told not to sit in front of the computer right before going to bed.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: jok3r on February 08, 2021, 02:11:47 PM
That's why most screens have "night modes" or "blue light filters" today ... ;)
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on February 08, 2021, 02:19:03 PM
Also, for many years now, in neighborhoods where they have been replacing the street lights with LEDs, residents that allow light into their windows at night have been reporting sleep disruptions.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on February 08, 2021, 02:27:24 PM
That's why most screens have "night modes" or "blue light filters" today ... ;)

So it's true that blue light disturbs one's sleep?  What, then, does it do to the brain?  ???
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: jok3r on February 08, 2021, 03:03:54 PM
That's why most screens have "night modes" or "blue light filters" today ... ;)

So it's true that blue light disturbs one's sleep?  What, then, does it do to the brain?  ???

As I read in different sources, the wave length of the blue light blocks the building of melatonin more than all other wave length. Melatonin is a "sleep hormon" that has great impact on our day-night-rhythm. If this rhythm is disturbed it can lead to all well-known diseases like depression, diabetis, "being fat" and "diseases related to your heart" and so on (sorry, didn't have the english words for the last two in my head :D ).
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on February 08, 2021, 03:21:00 PM
Obesity?   :D
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: jok3r on February 08, 2021, 03:32:32 PM
Obesity?   :D

Ah, yeah... sometimes my brain seems to suppress this word, since I'm suffering from this disease myself.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on February 08, 2021, 05:06:20 PM

Still....the Poly Evolver in the dark looks incredible with the blue lights.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8QuPCByxQI

In theory, yes; in practice, the blue LEDs are so bright that it interferes with me seeing other details on the panel; it's not so much the color, which I love, but just if there was a way to tone them down.  I had to put electrical tape on the lights on the back because the light show was a constant distraction.

That's true. A less bright version of the blue LEDs would be a good compromise.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: proteus-ix on February 19, 2021, 08:16:20 PM
as to whether it matters if a user can hear it "in a mix" or not - well, great music can be made on a toy guitar or a cheap accordion or, hell, a rubber chicken. But in many cases it's considered 'better' when performed on a more refined instrument. And that's a big part of why it matters at all.

So I got into synths about 5 years ago.  The first few years, I researched and tried to get as many of the sounds or instruments that my heroes did - guys who had means and were buying up cheap analog gear when digital hit the scene.  But even after getting all the gear I have, I still wasn't making music like they did.  I had more to learn.  So I *really* studied the actual recordings - what were the sounds, what did the song really depend on, what was essential and made the tracks, and what could be changed in a remix or remake without fundamentally altering the impact of the music, etc.  And then only recently, I came across some live recordings from these bands in the mid-80s, and knowing what I know now, I saw just how unimportant most of the gear really was.  The sound was coming from the drum production, samples, vocals, effects, the mix, a hundred other things than just like, a Jupiter or Prophet 5 or Oberheim or whatever.  In fact, the actual synth patches are pretty straight forward; Pro One+Moog basses, string sounds from Ensoniqs, Rolands, string and percussive sounds from DX7s etc.  And so while I personally DO have sensitive hearing, and habitually do well on blind A/B tests, and am very much inspired by rich and dynamic timbres, the MUSIC that I enjoy tends to use the studio more as the instrument than any one synth or whatever.  So this whole thing about sound quality had just become a white whale for me, when in reality it makes almost zero difference for what I want to do.

Does this mean I think software is equal? No, but mostly because most software is not designed as an *instrument*, and it lives on a computer, which tends to automatically disengage the connection to my subconscious mind that a real instrument can pull out of me.  Maybe it works for other people, but hardware is more inspiring to me.  But as for the difference in sound...  it's almost never going to translate to a mix, unless it's a minimal arrangement with that specific instrument in razor focus, doing howling filter sweeps or something.  And this is where DSI and Sequential have always stood out, even beyond sound and build quality - they don't make synthesizers, they make MUSICAL instruments.  And I have yet to find a piece of integrated hardware and software (I invested heavily in Native Instruments and Arturia because I though NKS was the answer) that replicates the same level of joy and productivity that I get from a Dave Smith piece.

But of course all methods are valid, it's just down to what works for you and what your desired results are.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: proteus-ix on February 19, 2021, 08:24:22 PM
But I can say that I definitely notice a difference between stuff I recorded using only software versus all hardware.  Those details which are very noticeable during the initial composition stage, then less noticeable after recording, still seem to add up to more than the sum of their parts in the end.  For that reason I try to use software only in a supplemental role these days.  I still do still use FX plugins quite a bit, because I don't want to have a pedal or rack for every possible config.

Yeah I think it makes a huge difference for the elements responsible for the groove to be analog - usually the percussion, but also it helps to realize that piano/guitar/bass are as much percussion as melodic instruments.  Basically anything that benefits from dynamic variation in transients to create accents in rhythm and mark out specific chords and notes outlining or contrasting the chords.  Whereas the other melodic and production elements can often almost be literally anything, since they don't usually live and die by their transients.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on May 11, 2021, 07:53:20 PM
So Dave said it's likely going to be two products this year.

My money is still on an OBX which just seems obvious at this point (Tom is desperate to use the trademark on a product, lots of videos coming out on youtube about the OBX and in general people demanding more reissues)-Not my thing at all but whatever.

The second is likely going to be something small. My hope is for a Mophox4 successor. Just a small four voice polyphonic synth with a simple architecture. Likely DCO based, monotimbral, single effect engine, arpeggiator and step sequencer, patch memory and that's it. Nothing fancy but it would be nice to see Sequential do a synth under $1000USD made in the USA. I think that it's a category that's missing from their current lineup. It would be an excellent tool for musicians who are primarily playing another instrument (ala guitar, piano) and just need to play a few chords on a poly synth next to them and it would also be a great learning tool for beginners looking at getting their first poly synth. I doubt it will happen but fingers crossed.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on May 11, 2021, 08:03:42 PM
So Dave said it's likely going to be two products this year.

The second is likely going to be something small. My hope is for a Mophox4 successor. Just a small four voice polyphonic synth with a simple architecture. Likely DCO based, monotimbral, single effect engine, arpeggiator and step sequencer, patch memory and that's it. Nothing fancy but it would be nice to see Sequential do a synth under $1000USD made in the USA.

I would be thrilled with such an instrument, something of a familiar design (Rev2-based) and less likely to be afflicted with loads of software problems.  The main issue for me would be - as always - the length of the keyboard.  I think four octaves is an excellent size for such a synthesizer, or at the very least, 3 1/2.  I agree, it would be refreshing if Sequential were to revisit the older days when it produced smaller, simpler, and more modestly priced instruments.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on May 12, 2021, 04:51:01 AM
So Dave said it's likely going to be two products this year.

The second is likely going to be something small. My hope is for a Mophox4 successor. Just a small four voice polyphonic synth with a simple architecture. Likely DCO based, monotimbral, single effect engine, arpeggiator and step sequencer, patch memory and that's it. Nothing fancy but it would be nice to see Sequential do a synth under $1000USD made in the USA.

I would be thrilled with such an instrument, something of a familiar design (Rev2-based) and less likely to be afflicted with loads of software problems.  The main issue for me would be - as always - the length of the keyboard.  I think four octaves is an excellent size for such a synthesizer, or at the very least, 3 1/2.  I agree, it would be refreshing if Sequential were to revisit the older days when it produced smaller, simpler, and more modestly priced instruments.

I think if such an instrument does happen, it'll be the same keyboard length as the original Mophox4 as to avoid conflicting with the P6 and OB6.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on May 12, 2021, 01:03:58 PM
I agree.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: Soundquest on May 14, 2021, 10:05:17 AM
Nope,  it's gonna be a PEK re issue.   Think positive ;)
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on May 14, 2021, 11:02:12 AM
Nope,  it's gonna be a PEK re issue.   Think positive ;)

Eww. I'd rather a PEK successor.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: Soundquest on May 17, 2021, 10:30:41 AM
Yeah, that's kinda what I meant.  Like a PEK "REV"
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: Soundquest on July 23, 2021, 09:14:19 AM
The longer we wait for the next announcement the closer we get, I guess. ;)
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on July 23, 2021, 10:57:58 AM
The longer we wait for the next announcement the closer we get, I guess. ;)

Meh, I'm in no rush. Absolute 0 interest in an OBX and it'll depend on what a Take 5 is.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: Soundquest on July 23, 2021, 01:00:04 PM
Isn't there like a candy bar called "take 5"  ;).   

I think my OB6 has that OBX ground covered close enough, but we'll see.  Might be some neat icing put on that cake.

  During the past year I've seriously considered the UDO Super 6, as I thought it sounded great, but none were to be had.   Then I started reading about the voice drop  issues they had.  Then, with it lacking a LCD, and not knowing patch level settings easily, it was a bit pricy for me, so decided to pass.  Polybrute was even on my radar for a bit.  I just liked the matrix concept.  Looks like a fun instrument, but after serious consideration figured it didn't bring me anything new.   So I ended up pacifying myself with the Hydrasynth, which was really a nice buy for the price and something different.   

Really I'd love to see Sequential make something I could call my new flag ship big-board in the next year or so.   After experimenting with enough synths I'm at the point now where it needs to be different and yet intuitive.  I'm sure they have something up their sleeve.   I will always cheer for the PEK concept, but specifically sequencer enhanced.  Those whom use the Soundtower editor on PEK for the sequencer will know what I mean.  If those kinds of features could be put into a hardware synth/sequencer, where no computer would be needed.  (Maybe like a matrix layout for the sequencer with all those options) then also an A and B layer like on REV2.  Now that would be great.

 
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on July 23, 2021, 01:53:50 PM
Isn't there like a candy bar called "take 5"  ;).   

I think my OB6 has that OBX ground covered close enough, but we'll see.  Might be some neat icing put on that cake.

  During the past year I've seriously considered the UDO Super 6, as I thought it sounded great, but none were to be had.   Then I started reading about the voice drop  issues they had.  Then, with it lacking a LCD, and not knowing patch level settings easily, it was a bit pricy for me, so decided to pass.  Polybrute was even on my radar for a bit.  I just liked the matrix concept.  Looks like a fun instrument, but after serious consideration figured it didn't bring me anything new.   So I ended up pacifying myself with the Hydrasynth, which was really a nice buy for the price and something different.   

Really I'd love to see Sequential make something I could call my new flag ship big-board in the next year or so.   After experimenting with enough synths I'm at the point now where it needs to be different and yet intuitive.  I'm sure they have something up their sleeve.   I will always cheer for the PEK concept, but specifically sequencer enhanced.  Those whom use the Soundtower editor on PEK for the sequencer will know what I mean.  If those kinds of features could be put into a hardware synth/sequencer, where no computer would be needed.  (Maybe like a matrix layout for the sequencer with all those options) then also an A and B layer like on REV2.  Now that would be great.
 

I'm jonesing for an OB-X desktop module personally.  I also picked up a Hydrasynth desktop this year and have been very pleased...  But for me an OB-X is a bucket list synth just like the P5/10 was.  It only helped reinforce in my own mind why these older Prophets and Oberheims were so successful as musical instruments, despite such a spartan feature set relative to today's feature set standards.  It's the inspiration I draw from the P10 every time I sit down to it, let alone the sounds that come out of it. 

I'd love to have the full keyboard experience of the OB-X, but for space reasons it's going to need to be a module.
I don't think it would replace my OB-6 any more than my P10 replaced my P6 -- they are different synths with a different sound, which like most synths have the ability to sound similar if you push them in that direction.

For a while I was hoping for a Pro One reissue, but the AS-1 has fulfilled that particular role in my lineup.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on July 23, 2021, 01:58:39 PM
Isn't there like a candy bar called "take 5"  ;).   

Really I'd love to see Sequential make something I could call my new flag ship big-board in the next year or so.   After experimenting with enough synths I'm at the point now where it needs to be different and yet intuitive.  I'm sure they have something up their sleeve.   I will always cheer for the PEK concept, but specifically sequencer enhanced.  Those whom use the Soundtower editor on PEK for the sequencer will know what I mean.  If those kinds of features could be put into a hardware synth/sequencer, where no computer would be needed.  (Maybe like a matrix layout for the sequencer with all those options) then also an A and B layer like on REV2.  Now that would be great.

 

Take 5 is a famous jazz song by Dave Brubeck. So Perhaps it has something to do with rhythm? A drum machine perhaps (Yes please!!!!!) ? A stand alone multitrack sequencer (Yes please!!!!!!!!)

Personally I'd love to see a VCO/Wavetable flagship as well but Take 5 is a really odd name for a synth so I sure hope that isn't it.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: jg666 on August 21, 2021, 01:51:52 PM
Just noticed this on Synth Anatomy

https://www.synthanatomy.com/2021/08/leak-sequential-take-5-new-5-voice-analog-polyphonic-synthesizer-from-dave-smith.html

Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: Quatschmacher on August 21, 2021, 01:53:14 PM
Just noticed this on Synth Anatomy

https://www.synthanatomy.com/2021/08/leak-sequential-take-5-new-5-voice-analog-polyphonic-synthesizer-from-dave-smith.html
We’ve been discussing this here:
https://forum.sequential.com/index.php/topic,5389.msg54431/topicseen.html#new
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: jg666 on August 21, 2021, 01:54:56 PM
Just noticed this on Synth Anatomy

https://www.synthanatomy.com/2021/08/leak-sequential-take-5-new-5-voice-analog-polyphonic-synthesizer-from-dave-smith.html
We’ve been discussing this here:
https://forum.sequential.com/index.php/topic,5389.msg54431/topicseen.html#new

Ooops sorry didn’t notice that :)
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: Quatschmacher on August 21, 2021, 01:58:19 PM
Just noticed this on Synth Anatomy

https://www.synthanatomy.com/2021/08/leak-sequential-take-5-new-5-voice-analog-polyphonic-synthesizer-from-dave-smith.html
We’ve been discussing this here:
https://forum.sequential.com/index.php/topic,5389.msg54431/topicseen.html#new

Ooops sorry didn’t notice that :)
No need to apologise.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: narkosys on August 23, 2021, 11:12:02 AM
well it looks like the Take 5 is seeing the light of day. 
https://www.sequential.com/product/take-5-compact-poly-synth/

5 voice compact analogue poly at a speculated MSRP of $1300? yes please!

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNv27pVXr_4
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on August 23, 2021, 11:44:04 AM
The end to all the fake news suspicion.

I do think this was a smart move on Sequential's part.  The Take 5 will be a very popular instrument. 

https://www.sequential.com/2021/08/take-5-compact-poly-synth/
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: narkosys on August 23, 2021, 12:45:58 PM
I agree.  I am looking for my first 'beginner' synth and this fits the bill nicely.  immensely powerful and at a price that I can justify.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on August 23, 2021, 12:51:21 PM
And now that I see the official marketing angle, the name makes more sense (Take5 = emphasis on portability, take 5 notes of polyphony with you etc).  I think its a smart "gateway" product to bring entry level buyers in and make them permanent Sequential customers, and probably has Uli sweating.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on August 23, 2021, 01:01:58 PM
There is a new Take 5 section, so let's move the discussion over there.

https://forum.sequential.com/index.php/board,45.0.html
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on September 26, 2021, 10:34:18 AM
I'm adjusting my prediction for the next Sequential product announcement.  Until recently, I was predicting it is an OB-X reissue (but that prediction was only due to the trademark registration by Sequential earlier this year).  I now have reason to believe it will be an OB-Xa.  I can't reveal exactly why the change in prediction without putting someone else on the spot, I will just say that if you follow enough people on Youtube, certain clues tend to reveal themselves like hidden gems.

It is also very possible that it is switchable between OBX/OBX-A modes, much like Rev 1/2 and 3 filters on the Rev4.

Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: CCrow on September 26, 2021, 11:10:38 AM
I'm adjusting my prediction for the next Sequential product announcement.  Until recently, I was predicting it is an OB-X reissue (but that prediction was only due to the trademark registration by Sequential earlier this year).  I now have reason to believe it will be an OB-Xa.  I can't reveal exactly why the change in prediction without putting someone else on the spot, I will just say that if you follow enough people on Youtube, certain clues tend to reveal themselves like hidden gems.

It is also very possible that it is switchable between OBX/OBX-A modes, much like Rev 1/2 and 3 filters on the Rev4.

I really hope either part of this is true. I personally prefer the Xa's filter from the demos I have heard, but both would really be a dream instrument. I am unsure if they would be willing to have 3 filter options though: X, Xa 12dB, and Xa 24dB
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on September 27, 2021, 05:02:11 AM
So here are some questions for those who would designate themselves as potential buyers for an OB-x/xa.

1.  If offered in both original form factor keyboard and desktop, would you get the keyboard?   I think the original needed to be huge in order to cope with heat issues and there aren't enough knobs to justify the size these days.  The P10 is different in my mind, because the lovely walnut box adds to the experience.  I think I'd be more than content with a module for an OBX/a, particularly due to space requirements in my studio room.

2.  How many voices would you need?   I would want 8, with the ability to limit to lower polyphony count, and also the ability to split.   

3.  What would be your highest priority feature on such a product?   For me it would be dual filter types (SEM and Curtis) with 2/4 pole on the Curtis.  It also probably goes without saying that it needs to not be a maintenance nightmare like the original supposedly is, with regard to tuning.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: CCrow on October 01, 2021, 09:21:57 PM
So here are some questions for those who would designate themselves as potential buyers for an OB-x/xa.

1.  If offered in both original form factor keyboard and desktop, would you get the keyboard?   I think the original needed to be huge in order to cope with heat issues and there aren't enough knobs to justify the size these days.  The P10 is different in my mind, because the lovely walnut box adds to the experience.  I think I'd be more than content with a module for an OBX/a, particularly due to space requirements in my studio room.

2.  How many voices would you need?   I would want 8, with the ability to limit to lower polyphony count, and also the ability to split.   

3.  What would be your highest priority feature on such a product?   For me it would be dual filter types (SEM and Curtis) with 2/4 pole on the Curtis.  It also probably goes without saying that it needs to not be a maintenance nightmare like the original supposedly is, with regard to tuning.

1. I would get the desktop for both cost and size constraints

2. 8 Voices is what I would want as well

3. My highest priorities would be more filter flexibility like what you mentioned or something similar, as well as that sweet vintage knob. A nice thing to have would be easy stereo panning of the voices
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on April 16, 2022, 01:10:55 PM
We all know something is on the way.  We're expecting Tom Oberheim will have some influence over one instrument.  But I'd really like to see one of Dave's classic modern hybrid instruments revitalized - either the Poly Evolver Keyboard or the Prophet 12.  It's time for a successor to one of these masterpieces, which are so different from Sequential's current instruments. 

The instrument could use the Pro 3 or Take 5 design as a starting point, or not.  Either way, there's a gap in Sequential's line-up that has persisted for years.  They need a sophisticated poly synth that screams DSI/Sequential and that isn't a collaboration with any other company.  I would prefer to see a PEK or P12 successor.   
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on April 16, 2022, 02:35:44 PM
We all know something is on the way.  We're expecting Tom Oberheim will have some influence over one instrument.  But I'd really like to see one of Dave's classic modern hybrid instruments revitalized - either the Poly Evolver Keyboard or the Prophet 12.  It's time for a successor to one of these masterpieces, which are so different from Sequential's current instruments. 

The instrument could use the Pro 3 or Take 5 design as a starting point, or not.  Either way, there's a gap in Sequential's line-up that has persisted for years.  They need a sophisticated poly synth that screams DSI/Sequential and that isn't a collaboration with any other company.  I would prefer to see a PEK or P12 successor.

What I want to see.

8-10 voices
2 VCO oscillators (with variable wave shaping like the Prophet 6/Take 5 as well as having a sine wave as an option...which is a staple for FM)
2 Wavetable Oscillators (User wavetable support, interpolation of wavetables which can be turned on and off, wavetable number as a modulation destination (Which would allow for some nice wave sequencing type sounds), dedicated aliasing parameter which would allow the user to dial in as much aliasing as they'd like on the digital sounds)
Either engine (VCO or Wavetable) can be turned on and off independently....this would allow users to have a pure VCO sounding synth or a pure Wavetable based sound or cross pollinate the two.
Vintage Knob.

Possibly 2 filters. I can live with one but...
Filter 1: Modeled after the Take 5 filter.
Filter 2: Modelled after Chris Hugget's WASP designed filter which is found on the Novation Summit (If Focusrite would allow this is another story)

Filters can be played in series or parallel
Filter Drive.

2 Aux Envelopes with Looping and velocity.
Arpeggiator
Poly sequencer
Bi Timbrality
2 touch strips
Dual Digital Effects (Chorus, Phaser, Flanger, Rotary Speaker, Spring Reverb, Hall Reverb and Super Plate Reverb, Digital Delay, BBD Delay, Ring Mod as well as some new more exotic effects: Formant Filter and Reverse Delay)
Dedicated analog distortion


Now some things that would make this synth incredibly unique (In some cases not only to Sequential's current lineup but on the market in general.)
Morphing capabilities (expanded from the Pro 3 upgrade, what an incredibly unique sound this would be. Almost the next evolution of the Prophet VS in many ways but instead of simply adjusting the blend of the oscillators you are actually changing them completely by use of a modulation source)
Dedicated FM and AM parameters which also allows for linear FM (as a nod to the Prophet 12)
Tuned feedback.

If somehow they can talk to Fatar into using their new poly aftertouch keybed (found in the Waldorf Iridium Keys) then a poly aftertouch keybed would be most welcome....especially with the morphing capability above...just think of individually morphing each note. A warm VCO pad which slowly becomes a Wavetable buzz via each finger.

I have no idea what they would call it but honestly this is a synth that Sequential NEEDS to do. I don't want to see them stay in the analog realm or be focusing on doing reissues. I want to see them move forward and have that same type of innovation that Dave had when he was doing the Poly Evolver and the Prophet 12 and Tempest. Just a forward thinking masterpiece which I think would blow away anything else on the market. The Morph functionality of the PolyBrute, the Wavetable sounds of the HydraSynth/Summit combined with the warm VCOs of the Prophet 5/6/10/Take 5, the poly aftertouch of the Iridium all under one hood plus more.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on May 04, 2022, 05:04:18 PM
Looks like Sequential and Oberheim have floorspace side by side on the Superbooth 2022 floor plan (see attached image...  booths 0300 and 0301).  Looks like maybe May 10th may be the big announcement?
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on May 04, 2022, 08:34:21 PM
Looks like Sequential and Oberheim have floorspace side by side on the Superbooth 2022 floor plan (see attached image...  booths 0300 and 0301).  Looks like maybe May 10th may be the big announcement?

Or could just be them both announcing the OBX together and having the rest of Sequential's catalog showcased. I highly doubt they are going to be showing an OBX reissue alongside a new Sequential synth. The fuss over an Oberheim branded polysynth reissue of an OBX is going to dwarf anything new Sequential has to show, it would be suicide for the product to do it.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on May 05, 2022, 04:38:04 AM
Looks like Sequential and Oberheim have floorspace side by side on the Superbooth 2022 floor plan (see attached image...  booths 0300 and 0301).  Looks like maybe May 10th may be the big announcement?

Or could just be them both announcing the OBX together and having the rest of Sequential's catalog showcased. I highly doubt they are going to be showing an OBX reissue alongside a new Sequential synth. The fuss over an Oberheim branded polysynth reissue of an OBX is going to dwarf anything new Sequential has to show, it would be suicide for the product to do it.

I am expecting a single product announcement as well, this post was more about trying to speculate on "when" the new Obie synth is announced...  hopefully this means on or around May 10.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on May 11, 2022, 09:29:09 AM
Anyone else have any guesses as to what direction Sequential might go in at this point? I'm genuinely curious if they are just going to stick with analog based gear only going forward and any wavetables/morphing/FM whatever is completely off the table now since the Focusrite takeover?

After the Prophet 5/10 and now OBX8....more reissues in the future instead of expanding on the Pro 3's hybrid concept?
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on May 11, 2022, 11:51:50 AM
Anyone else have any guesses as to what direction Sequential might go in at this point? I'm genuinely curious if they are just going to stick with analog based gear only going forward and any wavetables/morphing/FM whatever is completely off the table now since the Focusrite takeover?

After the Prophet 5/10 and now OBX8....more reissues in the future instead of expanding on the Pro 3's hybrid concept?

I wondered this same thing recently..  I personally would get excited about a proper Pro One reissue but I doubt we will see it because of the existence of the Toraiz AS-1 and the Pioneer deal.  I assume that Dave, Tony and Chris all made significant contributions to the OB-X8, and if their time and attention are focused on Oberheim products it makes one wonder if they will pretty much just operate as one team for the foreseeable future.

On the Sequential side of things, I think a Prophet VS reissue would be a successful product.  A successor to the Prophet 12 seems imminent or maybe some continuation of the Poly Evolver line.  Digital oscillators with analog filters, one of Dave's strengths.   On the Oberheim side of things, TVS and maybe an Xpander (or Matrix 12 in a module which is basically an Xpander).

Not that I think they should necessarily focus only on reissues (personally I think of the P5/10 and OBX8 as more than just a reissue)...  but, speaking sheerly from a business perspective, the value of the pedigree of these two brands and those specific vintage models is a very difficult proposition to ignore.  Focusrite's other synth company (Novation) has a shorter product history so they aren't in a position to create reissues of vintage synths that go for thousands on the used market in dubious condition, while Dave and Tom are.


Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on May 11, 2022, 12:16:22 PM
Anyone else have any guesses as to what direction Sequential might go in at this point? I'm genuinely curious if they are just going to stick with analog based gear only going forward and any wavetables/morphing/FM whatever is completely off the table now since the Focusrite takeover?

After the Prophet 5/10 and now OBX8....more reissues in the future instead of expanding on the Pro 3's hybrid concept?

I wondered this same thing recently..  I personally would get excited about a proper Pro One reissue but I doubt we will see it because of the existence of the Toraiz AS-1 and the Pioneer deal.  I assume that Dave, Tony and Chris all made significant contributions to the OB-X8, and if their time and attention are focused on Oberheim products it makes one wonder if they will pretty much just operate as one team for the foreseeable future.

On the Sequential side of things, I think a Prophet VS reissue would be a successful product.  A successor to the Prophet 12 seems imminent or maybe some continuation of the Poly Evolver line.  Digital oscillators with analog filters, one of Dave's strengths.   On the Oberheim side of things, TVS and maybe an Xpander (or Matrix 12 in a module which is basically an Xpander).

Not that I think they should necessarily focus only on reissues (personally I think of the P5/10 and OBX8 as more than just a reissue)...  but, speaking sheerly from a business perspective, the value of the pedigree of these two brands and those specific vintage models is a very difficult proposition to ignore.  Focusrite's other synth company (Novation) has a shorter product history so they aren't in a position to create reissues of vintage synths that go for thousands on the used market in dubious condition, while Dave and Tom are.

I don't think we are going to see a Prophet 12 or Poly Evolver successor anymore...nor a VS reissue or Pro One reissue (Both names now are Behringer products so they likely couldn't do a reissue anyway).

That's why I think Focusrite might just delegate Novation to do wavetables, hybrids, samples, drum machines etc and Sequential and Oberheim will just be a "greatest hits" companies for now. Not a fan myself, but the market is there and Dave and Tom are probably both at an age where they don't want to deal with rolling the dice on an innovation or completely new product. I've come to accept that the Pro 3 is likely the last "forward thinking" synth Dave will have a hand in. (He barely had anything to do with the Take 5 promotion wise save for a 2 second cameo in the introduction video. A sign of things to come most likely.) So I likely won't get my VCO/Wavetable poly hybrid so I might just have to settle for the Summit.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: chysn on May 11, 2022, 02:57:17 PM
Anyone else have any guesses as to what direction Sequential might go in at this point?

My track record for Sequential guesses has always been terrible. But a poly with Pro 3-style architecture feels like a natural progression. A second wavetable oscillator would be welcome, because the wavetable oscillator is the Pro 3's killer app.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on May 11, 2022, 03:03:27 PM

I don't think we are going to see a Prophet 12 or Poly Evolver successor anymore...nor a VS reissue or Pro One reissue (Both names now are Behringer products so they likely couldn't do a reissue anyway).


Behringer's is Pro-1 vs Sequential Pro One.  Sort of like McDonalds has the golden arches, and McDowells has the golden arcs :)

That's why I think Focusrite might just delegate Novation to do wavetables, hybrids, samples, drum machines etc and Sequential and Oberheim will just be a "greatest hits" companies for now. Not a fan myself, but the market is there and Dave and Tom are probably both at an age where they don't want to deal with rolling the dice on an innovation or completely new product. I've come to accept that the Pro 3 is likely the last "forward thinking" synth Dave will have a hand in. (He barely had anything to do with the Take 5 promotion wise save for a 2 second cameo in the introduction video. A sign of things to come most likely.) So I likely won't get my VCO/Wavetable poly hybrid so I might just have to settle for the Summit.

I look at it like the Take 5 is an attempt at adding an affordable synth the product line, something like the Prophet 600 was.  I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't the synth Dave wanted to make, but was more or less a business decision that overlaped with the Focusrite acquisition.  Dave might secretly want to make some magnum opus synth that puts all existing synths ever made to shame, but knows that it could not be released at a price point that could actually sell units; at that point becomes a business risk that he wouldn't have wanted to make as previous owner of Sequential, and almost surely Focusrite doesn't want to take a gamble on now.  So I'm sure he's always working under constraints with regard to what can or cannot be done.  Look at the Prophet X -- innovative and different, but for whatever reason didn't seem to take off..  the large price drop after the initial MSRP indicated to me there was some sort of realization that took place after release.

There are a lot of "weird" and innovative synths being released these days in the lower price brackets, aimed more at the experimental music makers.  I would think entering that space seems risky and not as attractive to someone with a track record like Dave or Tom.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on May 11, 2022, 04:12:25 PM

I don't think we are going to see a Prophet 12 or Poly Evolver successor anymore...nor a VS reissue or Pro One reissue (Both names now are Behringer products so they likely couldn't do a reissue anyway).


Behringer's is Pro-1 vs Sequential Pro One.  Sort of like McDonalds has the golden arches, and McDowells has the golden arcs :)

That's why I think Focusrite might just delegate Novation to do wavetables, hybrids, samples, drum machines etc and Sequential and Oberheim will just be a "greatest hits" companies for now. Not a fan myself, but the market is there and Dave and Tom are probably both at an age where they don't want to deal with rolling the dice on an innovation or completely new product. I've come to accept that the Pro 3 is likely the last "forward thinking" synth Dave will have a hand in. (He barely had anything to do with the Take 5 promotion wise save for a 2 second cameo in the introduction video. A sign of things to come most likely.) So I likely won't get my VCO/Wavetable poly hybrid so I might just have to settle for the Summit.

I look at it like the Take 5 is an attempt at adding an affordable synth the product line, something like the Prophet 600 was.  I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't the synth Dave wanted to make, but was more or less a business decision that overlaped with the Focusrite acquisition.  Dave might secretly want to make some magnum opus synth that puts all existing synths ever made to shame, but knows that it could not be released at a price point that could actually sell units; at that point becomes a business risk that he wouldn't have wanted to make as previous owner of Sequential, and almost surely Focusrite doesn't want to take a gamble on now.  So I'm sure he's always working under constraints with regard to what can or cannot be done.  Look at the Prophet X -- innovative and different, but for whatever reason didn't seem to take off..  the large price drop after the initial MSRP indicated to me there was some sort of realization that took place after release.

There are a lot of "weird" and innovative synths being released these days in the lower price brackets, aimed more at the experimental music makers.  I would think entering that space seems risky and not as attractive to someone with a track record like Dave or Tom.

The Prophet X didn’t take off because 8Dio dropped the ball on their side and Gerry Basserman has terrible demos out of the gate. It likely would have flopped regardless if it was a pure analog synth or hybrid.

I agree though, I think there’s a lot of brands coming out now that are offering different forms of synthesis that Dave might just be emotionally and creatively exhausted when it comes to developing synths. I know people are going to take offence to this but I sort of look at the Prophet 5/10 reissues as Dave waiving the white flag as it were. Sort of coming full circle and finally giving the fans a reissue of what they kept complaining about. Not saying he didn’t want to do it or isn’t excited about it but I think after the disaster with the Prophet X and the mixed reaction towards the Pro 3, I sort of get the feeling Dave said “For fuck sake. Here! A Prophet 5 reissue. Happy?” and he is burnt out in regards to innovation or he might feel that innovation isn’t really what people want and I would say, judging by most of this forum, he’s right.

So yeah, once I get the Pro 3, that might be it for me in regards to Sequential. Unless they come out with something mind blowing to me, I’ll consider Sequential bankrupt in regards to innovation and creativity.  Time to move on.

Roger Linn had a great quote “If Henry Ford asked everyone what they wanted the most, everyone would have told him that they wanted a faster horse.”

So I guess I’ll just be watching everyone on their horses while I wait for my car and honestly...I’m fine with that.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on May 11, 2022, 06:06:24 PM

I don't think we are going to see a Prophet 12 or Poly Evolver successor anymore...nor a VS reissue or Pro One reissue (Both names now are Behringer products so they likely couldn't do a reissue anyway).


Behringer's is Pro-1 vs Sequential Pro One.  Sort of like McDonalds has the golden arches, and McDowells has the golden arcs :)

That's why I think Focusrite might just delegate Novation to do wavetables, hybrids, samples, drum machines etc and Sequential and Oberheim will just be a "greatest hits" companies for now. Not a fan myself, but the market is there and Dave and Tom are probably both at an age where they don't want to deal with rolling the dice on an innovation or completely new product. I've come to accept that the Pro 3 is likely the last "forward thinking" synth Dave will have a hand in. (He barely had anything to do with the Take 5 promotion wise save for a 2 second cameo in the introduction video. A sign of things to come most likely.) So I likely won't get my VCO/Wavetable poly hybrid so I might just have to settle for the Summit.

I look at it like the Take 5 is an attempt at adding an affordable synth the product line, something like the Prophet 600 was.  I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't the synth Dave wanted to make, but was more or less a business decision that overlaped with the Focusrite acquisition.  Dave might secretly want to make some magnum opus synth that puts all existing synths ever made to shame, but knows that it could not be released at a price point that could actually sell units; at that point becomes a business risk that he wouldn't have wanted to make as previous owner of Sequential, and almost surely Focusrite doesn't want to take a gamble on now.  So I'm sure he's always working under constraints with regard to what can or cannot be done.  Look at the Prophet X -- innovative and different, but for whatever reason didn't seem to take off..  the large price drop after the initial MSRP indicated to me there was some sort of realization that took place after release.

There are a lot of "weird" and innovative synths being released these days in the lower price brackets, aimed more at the experimental music makers.  I would think entering that space seems risky and not as attractive to someone with a track record like Dave or Tom.

The Prophet X didn’t take off because 8Dio dropped the ball on their side and Gerry Basserman has terrible demos out of the gate. It likely would have flopped regardless if it was a pure analog synth or hybrid.

I agree though, I think there’s a lot of brands coming out now that are offering different forms of synthesis that Dave might just be emotionally and creatively exhausted when it comes to developing synths. I know people are going to take offence to this but I sort of look at the Prophet 5/10 reissues as Dave waiving the white flag as it were. Sort of coming full circle and finally giving the fans a reissue of what they kept complaining about. Not saying he didn’t want to do it or isn’t excited about it but I think after the disaster with the Prophet X and the mixed reaction towards the Pro 3, I sort of get the feeling Dave said “For fuck sake. Here! A Prophet 5 reissue. Happy?” and he is burnt out in regards to innovation or he might feel that innovation isn’t really what people want and I would say, judging by most of this forum, he’s right.

So yeah, once I get the Pro 3, that might be it for me in regards to Sequential. Unless they come out with something mind blowing to me, I’ll consider Sequential bankrupt in regards to innovation and creativity.  Time to move on.

Roger Linn had a great quote “If Henry Ford asked everyone what they wanted the most, everyone would have told him that they wanted a faster horse.”

So I guess I’ll just be watching everyone on their horses while I wait for my car and honestly...I’m fine with that.

I have a very different take on it all.  I am very much a technology oriented person and always have been.  I like being an early adopter of tech gadgets and what not (to a point).  And no doubt the reason I gravitated toward synthesizers as my instrument of choice had a lot to do with the merging of music with technology.

But, more and more, I view a synthesizer as a musical instrument, more similar to a piano, guitar, violin, saxophone, etc. except that technology enables this particular instrument to cover a wider range of musical roles.   But I still think that a synthesizer has a certain set of fundamental roles it should play in music.   And while it is cool to get all sorts of weird noises out of them or do experimental things at the end of the day, I believe one synth differs from another in the way it handles the basic categories of synth sounds -- and it is these sounds that create the fingerprint of that instrument.

I believe Dave's view of the synthesizer is more like mine -- a synth as an instrument which should be refined or tweaked in very modest ways so as not to bastardize the definition of what a synthesizer is considered to be.  I mean would a Stradivarius still be a Stradivarius if someone decided to be innovative and bolt a vocoder onto it, or some sort of modulation device that let the player modify the tone?   It ceases to even be a violin at that point.

Then of course there is the view of a synth as a technological gadget designed to make music.  I believe that view fuels the desire for new and interesting features, radically different approaches to making sounds, and so forth.   And, I think there is not a right or wrong view.

And maybe my generation (not boomer like Dave but GenX instead) will be the last of the mohicans that believe a synthesizer should be more music instrument than computer.  But that's how I feel.  And I could be wrong but I think Dave is of the same mindset. 

In other words, congnitively I do not map or equate synthesizers to other forms of tech advancements like automobiles for example.  Musical instruments are just different and there's a lot of value in their historical attributes.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on May 11, 2022, 06:22:36 PM

I don't think we are going to see a Prophet 12 or Poly Evolver successor anymore...nor a VS reissue or Pro One reissue (Both names now are Behringer products so they likely couldn't do a reissue anyway).


Behringer's is Pro-1 vs Sequential Pro One.  Sort of like McDonalds has the golden arches, and McDowells has the golden arcs :)

That's why I think Focusrite might just delegate Novation to do wavetables, hybrids, samples, drum machines etc and Sequential and Oberheim will just be a "greatest hits" companies for now. Not a fan myself, but the market is there and Dave and Tom are probably both at an age where they don't want to deal with rolling the dice on an innovation or completely new product. I've come to accept that the Pro 3 is likely the last "forward thinking" synth Dave will have a hand in. (He barely had anything to do with the Take 5 promotion wise save for a 2 second cameo in the introduction video. A sign of things to come most likely.) So I likely won't get my VCO/Wavetable poly hybrid so I might just have to settle for the Summit.

I look at it like the Take 5 is an attempt at adding an affordable synth the product line, something like the Prophet 600 was.  I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't the synth Dave wanted to make, but was more or less a business decision that overlaped with the Focusrite acquisition.  Dave might secretly want to make some magnum opus synth that puts all existing synths ever made to shame, but knows that it could not be released at a price point that could actually sell units; at that point becomes a business risk that he wouldn't have wanted to make as previous owner of Sequential, and almost surely Focusrite doesn't want to take a gamble on now.  So I'm sure he's always working under constraints with regard to what can or cannot be done.  Look at the Prophet X -- innovative and different, but for whatever reason didn't seem to take off..  the large price drop after the initial MSRP indicated to me there was some sort of realization that took place after release.

There are a lot of "weird" and innovative synths being released these days in the lower price brackets, aimed more at the experimental music makers.  I would think entering that space seems risky and not as attractive to someone with a track record like Dave or Tom.

The Prophet X didn’t take off because 8Dio dropped the ball on their side and Gerry Basserman has terrible demos out of the gate. It likely would have flopped regardless if it was a pure analog synth or hybrid.

I agree though, I think there’s a lot of brands coming out now that are offering different forms of synthesis that Dave might just be emotionally and creatively exhausted when it comes to developing synths. I know people are going to take offence to this but I sort of look at the Prophet 5/10 reissues as Dave waiving the white flag as it were. Sort of coming full circle and finally giving the fans a reissue of what they kept complaining about. Not saying he didn’t want to do it or isn’t excited about it but I think after the disaster with the Prophet X and the mixed reaction towards the Pro 3, I sort of get the feeling Dave said “For fuck sake. Here! A Prophet 5 reissue. Happy?” and he is burnt out in regards to innovation or he might feel that innovation isn’t really what people want and I would say, judging by most of this forum, he’s right.

So yeah, once I get the Pro 3, that might be it for me in regards to Sequential. Unless they come out with something mind blowing to me, I’ll consider Sequential bankrupt in regards to innovation and creativity.  Time to move on.

Roger Linn had a great quote “If Henry Ford asked everyone what they wanted the most, everyone would have told him that they wanted a faster horse.”

So I guess I’ll just be watching everyone on their horses while I wait for my car and honestly...I’m fine with that.

I have a very different take on it all.  I am very much a technology oriented person and always have been.  I like being an early adopter of tech gadgets and what not (to a point).  And no doubt the reason I gravitated toward synthesizers as my instrument of choice had a lot to do with the merging of music with technology.

But, more and more, I view a synthesizer as a musical instrument, more similar to a piano, guitar, violin, saxophone, etc. except that technology enables this particular instrument to cover a wider range of musical roles.   But I still think that a synthesizer has a certain set of fundamental roles it should play in music.   And while it is cool to get all sorts of weird noises out of them or do experimental things at the end of the day, I believe one synth differs from another in the way it handles the basic categories of synth sounds -- and it is these sounds that create the fingerprint of that instrument.

I believe Dave's view of the synthesizer is more like mine -- a synth as an instrument which should be refined or tweaked in very modest ways so as not to bastardize the definition of what a synthesizer is considered to be.  I mean would a Stradivarius still be a Stradivarius if someone decided to be innovative and bolt a vocoder onto it, or some sort of modulation device that let the player modify the tone?   It ceases to even be a violin at that point.

Then of course there is the view of a synth as a technological gadget designed to make music.  I believe that view fuels the desire for new and interesting features, radically different approaches to making sounds, and so forth.   And, I think there is not a right or wrong view.

And maybe my generation (not boomer like Dave but GenX instead) will be the last of the mohicans that believe a synthesizer should be more music instrument than computer.  But that's how I feel.  And I could be wrong but I think Dave is of the same mindset. 

In other words, congnitively I do not map or equate synthesizers to other forms of tech advancements like automobiles for example.  Musical instruments are just different and there's a lot of value in their historical attributes.

I respect that view. Not one I subscribe to but I respect it. I either case, I’ve given up hope in terms of expecting innovation out of Sequential and that’s okay. There’s plenty of other brands out there. I just see the writing on the wall and think energy is better spent elsewhere than crossing my fingers. :)
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on May 13, 2022, 01:58:33 PM

I don't think we are going to see a Prophet 12 or Poly Evolver successor anymore...nor a VS reissue or Pro One reissue (Both names now are Behringer products so they likely couldn't do a reissue anyway).


Behringer's is Pro-1 vs Sequential Pro One.  Sort of like McDonalds has the golden arches, and McDowells has the golden arcs :)

That's why I think Focusrite might just delegate Novation to do wavetables, hybrids, samples, drum machines etc and Sequential and Oberheim will just be a "greatest hits" companies for now. Not a fan myself, but the market is there and Dave and Tom are probably both at an age where they don't want to deal with rolling the dice on an innovation or completely new product. I've come to accept that the Pro 3 is likely the last "forward thinking" synth Dave will have a hand in. (He barely had anything to do with the Take 5 promotion wise save for a 2 second cameo in the introduction video. A sign of things to come most likely.) So I likely won't get my VCO/Wavetable poly hybrid so I might just have to settle for the Summit.

I look at it like the Take 5 is an attempt at adding an affordable synth the product line, something like the Prophet 600 was.  I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't the synth Dave wanted to make, but was more or less a business decision that overlaped with the Focusrite acquisition.  Dave might secretly want to make some magnum opus synth that puts all existing synths ever made to shame, but knows that it could not be released at a price point that could actually sell units; at that point becomes a business risk that he wouldn't have wanted to make as previous owner of Sequential, and almost surely Focusrite doesn't want to take a gamble on now.  So I'm sure he's always working under constraints with regard to what can or cannot be done.  Look at the Prophet X -- innovative and different, but for whatever reason didn't seem to take off..  the large price drop after the initial MSRP indicated to me there was some sort of realization that took place after release.

There are a lot of "weird" and innovative synths being released these days in the lower price brackets, aimed more at the experimental music makers.  I would think entering that space seems risky and not as attractive to someone with a track record like Dave or Tom.

The Prophet X didn’t take off because 8Dio dropped the ball on their side and Gerry Basserman has terrible demos out of the gate. It likely would have flopped regardless if it was a pure analog synth or hybrid.

I agree though, I think there’s a lot of brands coming out now that are offering different forms of synthesis that Dave might just be emotionally and creatively exhausted when it comes to developing synths. I know people are going to take offence to this but I sort of look at the Prophet 5/10 reissues as Dave waiving the white flag as it were. Sort of coming full circle and finally giving the fans a reissue of what they kept complaining about. Not saying he didn’t want to do it or isn’t excited about it but I think after the disaster with the Prophet X and the mixed reaction towards the Pro 3, I sort of get the feeling Dave said “For fuck sake. Here! A Prophet 5 reissue. Happy?” and he is burnt out in regards to innovation or he might feel that innovation isn’t really what people want and I would say, judging by most of this forum, he’s right.

So yeah, once I get the Pro 3, that might be it for me in regards to Sequential. Unless they come out with something mind blowing to me, I’ll consider Sequential bankrupt in regards to innovation and creativity.  Time to move on.

Roger Linn had a great quote “If Henry Ford asked everyone what they wanted the most, everyone would have told him that they wanted a faster horse.”

So I guess I’ll just be watching everyone on their horses while I wait for my car and honestly...I’m fine with that.

But, more and more, I view a synthesizer as a musical instrument, more similar to a piano, guitar, violin, saxophone, etc. except that technology enables this particular instrument to cover a wider range of musical roles.   But I still think that a synthesizer has a certain set of fundamental roles it should play in music.   And while it is cool to get all sorts of weird noises out of them or do experimental things at the end of the day, I believe one synth differs from another in the way it handles the basic categories of synth sounds -- and it is these sounds that create the fingerprint of that instrument.

I believe Dave's view of the synthesizer is more like mine -- a synth as an instrument which should be refined or tweaked in very modest ways so as not to bastardize the definition of what a synthesizer is considered to be. I mean would a Stradivarius still be a Stradivarius if someone decided to be innovative and bolt a vocoder onto it, or some sort of modulation device that let the player modify the tone?   It ceases to even be a violin at that point.


Seems to be a rather limited mindset to be honest. By that logic an electric guitar isn't really a guitar compared to a classical nylon string or an electric violin isn't really a violin (ppffft tell that to Nash The Slash). It's a slippery slope.

But it's all a matter of taste. Some people hated when Miles Davis started going electric and incorporating new elements into his music. Some refuse to even call it Jazz.

Some people don't classify Eddie Van Halen or Hendrix as good guitarists because they hid behind a wall of distortion and effects.

But the market is there obviously. The Prophet 5/10 and OBX8 are basically stripped down traditional instruments...I can respect that. I'm nostalgic about a lot of stuff too....I own a 35mm motion picture camera and still want to shoot on black and white film....but I just hope that innovation and progress isn't thrown out the window or compromised because of a feel good response for 1-2 products.

I know some people would be absolutely thrilled if Dave reissued a Pro One, T8, VS and hell, why not a DrumTrax too....but at some point Dave isn't going to be around anymore and then the rest of the team is left to play "catch up" with other companies who have surpassed them. We are in an age of morphing analog synthesizers now, polyphonic aftertouch, and Behringer releasing $200 clones....pretty soon $3000-5000 stripped down synths with minimum features is going to be a more and more difficult sell.

But if that's what Dave and Tom wants to do....or even if that's what Focusrite wants them to do...then so be it. Can they do both reissues AND innovative synths....maybe....but like I said, I don't see any innovation coming from Sequential in the near future.

Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: jok3r on May 13, 2022, 02:46:21 PM
As much as I love the "reissues", because they are dream machines for me... but now with OB-X8 and P10R4 the two (IMHO) most important synth of this companies available again, they really should start to think forward again. I'm in Lobo's team in this case.

What about this Poly Pro3 everybody was hoping for a while ago? Add a second wavetable osc and make it at least 8 voices and I would sell my PEAK for it. It's not that I don't like the PEAK, it's a fantastic synth and I also like the updates Novation is giving to it now and then. But after using my Rev2 and PEAK side by side for some years now, I recognized that I like the Sequential way of doing things more.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on May 13, 2022, 03:48:19 PM
I know some people would be absolutely thrilled if Dave reissued a Pro One, T8, VS and hell, why not a DrumTrax too....but at some point Dave isn't going to be around anymore and then the rest of the team is left to play "catch up" with other companies who have surpassed them.

I'd like to think these guys will continue making great products through Sequential/Oberheim once Dave and Tom are no longer in the business, but if not they will have a hell of a resume in the audio hardware field and lots of other companies would be interested in their skills.  Moog continues on without Bob.. Focusrite continues on without Rupert.  I see Sequential/Oberheim doing same so I'm sure current employees could keep going under those brands if they wanted.

We are in an age of morphing analog synthesizers now, polyphonic aftertouch, and Behringer releasing $200 clones....pretty soon $3000-5000 stripped down synths with minimum features is going to be a more and more difficult sell.

I'm not sure about that one, because every time I look on Reverb I keep seeing older stripped down synths with minimum features on a skyward resale price trajectory, while the more recently released feature-rich ones tend to drop in value.  The Sequential/Oberheim gear I'm buying today is a future goldmine... not that I would want to, but I'm pretty sure that in 10-20 years I could sell just one of them and buy multiple junk brand synths with the proceeds.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on May 13, 2022, 03:50:10 PM
As much as I love the "reissues", because they are dream machines for me... but now with OB-X8 and P10R4 the two (IMHO) most important synth of this companies available again, they really should start to think forward again. I'm in Lobo's team in this case.

What about this Poly Pro3 everybody was hoping for a while ago? Add a second wavetable osc and make it at least 8 voices and I would sell my PEAK for it. It's not that I don't like the PEAK, it's a fantastic synth and I also like the updates Novation is giving to it now and then. But after using my Rev2 and PEAK side by side for some years now, I recognized that I like the Sequential way of doing things more.

The question remains though...will Focusrite allow Sequential to do such a synth for fear of cutting into Summit/Peak sales?
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on May 13, 2022, 03:57:41 PM
For the time being. Everything is circular. What might seem to depreciate today could sky rocket in 10 to 20 years and vice versa. I’ve seen a lot of trends go for insane amounts of money at the time that you couldn’t sell for $25 today.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on May 13, 2022, 05:06:05 PM
For the time being. Everything is circular. What might seem to depreciate today could sky rocket in 10 to 20 years and vice versa. I’ve seen a lot of trends go for insane amounts of money at the time that you couldn’t sell for $25 today.

Fair point..  and one reason I never buy musical instruments solely as an investment.  Nothing is guaranteed.  Buy the ones you like the sound of and it always works out.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on May 14, 2022, 05:23:40 AM
As much as I love the "reissues", because they are dream machines for me... but now with OB-X8 and P10R4 the two (IMHO) most important synth of this companies available again, they really should start to think forward again. I'm in Lobo's team in this case.

Just some food for thought... check out from about 11 or 12 minutes on where Marcus begins talking about the importance of limitations, and how they had to intentionally recreate limitations in order to make the sounds of the vintage units possible....

https://forum.sequential.com/index.php/topic,213.msg58838.html#msg58838

... and remember, the whole reason the industry goes nuts over a Prophet or an Obie reissue is because of the sounds they made 40 years ago, and the fact that all of the technology advancements since have not been able to match their pleasant tones.

So I'm all for technological progress as soon as some of the innovative synths actually find a way to surpass the sound of the vintage ones.  What sounds good is no doubt subjective, but if anyone prefers the sound of all these harsh / cold
 / plastic sounding synths, why would they be looking at Sequential / Oberheim in the first place?   There are so many low cost options out there if someone wants a colder sound with lots of options.  Analog synths are typically either going to have less options, or a price tag most won't bite.  Then at the extreme end you have something like the Moog One which is both analog and feature rich, but I've still yet to hear a single sound from one that inspired me to buy one.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on May 14, 2022, 07:25:38 AM
  What sounds good is no doubt subjective, but if anyone prefers the sound of all these harsh / cold
 / plastic sounding synths, why would they be looking at Sequential / Oberheim in the first place?   There are so many low cost options out there if someone wants a colder sound with lots of options.  Analog synths are typically either going to have less options, or a price tag most won't bite. 


"  What sounds good is no doubt subjective, but if anyone prefers the sound of all these harsh / cold
 / plastic sounding synths, why would they be looking at Sequential / Oberheim in the first place? "

Prophet 2000
Prophet VS
Poly Evolver
Prophet 12
Prophet X

Digital Hybrids aren't out of the realm of Sequential at all. Why would anyone be looking at the company is because they enjoy the workflow of Sequential synths or a sense a familiarity as oppose to trying to learn a whole new workflow from scratch. Plus Sequential has developed things that have become common place on their synths that other brands don't have. The reason why I would want a hybrid from Sequential to get those Prophet VS/Wavetable/FM tones is because of the other options out there.

-Modal Argon 8 -Monotimbral (Prophet VS, Poly Evolver, Prophet 12, Prophet X are all bi-timbral so it's more than likely Sequential's would allow splits and layers which is crucial to me in my compositions)

-ASM HydraSynth-Monotimbral-and the Deluxe version is too big for my liking. No on board sequencer (which is something that is crucial to me (It frees up space and chords and allows me to preview how a sequence would sound as oppose to having to plug an external device in)

-UDO Super 6-Limited Wavetable options (only available on one oscillator and also static single cycle waves), no screen (which I would prefer on a Hybrid) and also monotimbral. Limited effects (On board effects are crucial to me as they free up space and especially if I can interact with them in the modulation matrix like I can with Sequential synths)

-Novation Summit-No sequencer, limited effects but it's the closest contender as a "Good enough" or "Passable" option should Sequential throw in the towel on forward thinking synths.


"Analog synths are typically either going to have less options, or a price tag most won't bite."

or in the case of the Prophet 5, ARP 2600 FS, Model D and OBX8----both.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LPF83 on May 14, 2022, 08:21:26 AM
  What sounds good is no doubt subjective, but if anyone prefers the sound of all these harsh / cold
 / plastic sounding synths, why would they be looking at Sequential / Oberheim in the first place?   There are so many low cost options out there if someone wants a colder sound with lots of options.  Analog synths are typically either going to have less options, or a price tag most won't bite. 


"  What sounds good is no doubt subjective, but if anyone prefers the sound of all these harsh / cold
 / plastic sounding synths, why would they be looking at Sequential / Oberheim in the first place? "

Prophet 2000
Prophet VS
Poly Evolver
Prophet 12
Prophet X

Digital Hybrids aren't out of the realm of Sequential at all. Why would anyone be looking at the company is because they enjoy the workflow of Sequential synths or a sense a familiarity as oppose to trying to learn a whole new workflow from scratch. Plus Sequential has developed things that have become common place on their synths that other brands don't have. The reason why I would want a hybrid from Sequential to get those Prophet VS/Wavetable/FM tones is because of the other options out there.

-Modal Argon 8 -Monotimbral (Prophet VS, Poly Evolver, Prophet 12, Prophet X are all bi-timbral so it's more than likely Sequential's would allow splits and layers which is crucial to me in my compositions)

-ASM HydraSynth-Monotimbral-and the Deluxe version is too big for my liking. No on board sequencer (which is something that is crucial to me (It frees up space and chords and allows me to preview how a sequence would sound as oppose to having to plug an external device in)

-UDO Super 6-Limited Wavetable options (only available on one oscillator and also static single cycle waves), no screen (which I would prefer on a Hybrid) and also monotimbral. Limited effects (On board effects are crucial to me as they free up space and especially if I can interact with them in the modulation matrix like I can with Sequential synths)

-Novation Summit-No sequencer, limited effects but it's the closest contender as a "Good enough" or "Passable" option should Sequential throw in the towel on forward thinking synths.

"Analog synths are typically either going to have less options, or a price tag most won't bite."

I've never seen an onboard sequencer that was a good sequencer, but admittedly part of that may be that my requirement of a sequencer as one that can control multiple instruments.   Why not Waldorf Iridium?

Anyway I think the workstation market caters to folks that want the swiss army knife approach.  In terms of keeping with Sequential UI/workflow I'm also kind of surprised you don't own a Rev2.  For great FM tones, a used P12 module would be a great choice -- or the Access Virus TI2.. people don't think of it for that purpose but it's actually great at FM and Wavetable tones, sounding like a PPG Wave when asked to do so, plus the overall sound design capabilities and all the modulation options and effects are off the charts, lots of voices and 16 part multitimbral.

The step LFOs of the Hydrasynth are sort of like a sequencer, btw, and the most recent FW update added the ability to adjust step pitch with entering keyboard notes.

Or, like I said... get a workstation from Roland, Korg etc.  The only thing wrong with workstations is they are disliked by folks like me who want each instrument to have its own personality and don't like the feature-rich all-in-one approach.  In terms of learning new workflow that just comes with time with each instrument.

or in the case of the Prophet 5, ARP 2600 FS, Model D and OBX8----both.

What led to the conclusion most didn't bite on these?  As I understand it Prophets sold and still selling like hotcakes...  ARP 2600 FS and Model D reissue were limited editions (which would cap sales numbers), and lots of people saying they've already preordered the OB-X8 even with only a few sound demos available.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on May 14, 2022, 09:26:25 AM
We obviously have different approaches and philosophies when it comes to music and instruments  ;)

I found with workstations, I was spending more time programming and less time composing and recording. I've had an FA-08, Kronos and Kurzweil 2600XS, I'm over it.


I think the Waldorf Quantum/Iridium stuff sounds fantastic but I just can't seem to get along with UI and I tend to find they are trying to be too many things at once as oppose to focusing on a specific form of synthesis/sound design. This is why I get along with the Prophet X so well as opposed to the Quantum. It's main focus is samples being used as oscillators and using subtractive synthesis techniques with them and that's it. The Waldorf stuff has this obviously, but it also has VA, Wavetable, FM, Granular stuff too....it tends to spark more option paralysis rather than inspiration to me.
Title: Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
Post by: LoboLives on May 15, 2022, 04:52:51 PM
Also the interview with Marcus is simply stating that the limitations were due to what they had at the time but the benefit now is we have the option to choose to have those limitations or not as opposed to being forced to. That’s not really an endorsement of those limitations or saying they are better but simply stating the user now has more options available.

In fact I think it would be a nice firmware update for the P6 or OB6 to have a Global “vintage mode” that you can turn on or off which restricts the value of the parameters.