The Official Sequential/Oberheim Forum
OTHER DISCUSSIONS => General Synthesis => Off Topic => Topic started by: Sacred Synthesis on November 16, 2015, 09:27:53 PM
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DSI has fairly dominated the last few NAMMs with fabulous new instruments. This year, the closest thing we know of to a new product will be the Prophet 6 Module. But of course, it's no longer really new, nor could it have occupied the company's R+D since the Prophet 6 Keyboard appeared. So, what else might be up DSI's sleeve for this winter? I would expect another module to appear soon, as the company branches out into modular instruments. Perhaps one day we'll even see a cabinet. But what's most tantalizing to the imagination is the recent retiring of those five instruments all at once. It leaves DSI with only one mono synth - the Pro 2; which begs the question, will DSI soon produce another item from the Sequential side of things - specifically, a monophonic synthesizer? After all, the "Prophet One" name is still available. That's what I expect in the near future. Any other guesses?
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Of course, the Prophet One is the thing that I want to see.
Other than that, I think it's time for DSI Modular to get serious and put up a complete modular starter package with a "classic" DSI DCO, a snappy EG, and a digital multi-LFO module. It would basically be, "Yeah, there is no more Mopho. Here, build your own damn Mopho."
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I'd still like to see a hybrid sample-oscillator polysynth from DSI... Maybe even one that will allow for user wavetable technology as well, as that would be rather simple to implement in a sample-oscillator synth as well... Waldorf obviously has no intention of creating one that is a hybrid... they rely on 100% digital for that, and have since the Microwave.
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To help illustrate things, I decided to list the current instruments (w/o the retired models):
Prophet-6 Keyboard
Prophet-6 Desktop
Prophet 12 Keyboard
Prophet 12 Desktop
Pro 2
Tempest
Prophet '08 Keyboard
Prophet '08 Desktop
Mopho x4
DSM01 Curtis Filter Module
DSM02 Character Module
Those are 5 synth engines in the higher price range (Prophet 12, Prophet-6, Pro 2, Prophet '08, and Tempest), one clearly affordable 4-voice polysynth in the medium price range, and two Eurorack modules.
Taking into account that the prices of the Prophet '08 Keyboard and Module, the Prophet 12 Module, and the Mopho x4 have been lowered recently, one could be tempted to assume that those will be next on the retirement list - minus the Prophet 12 Module. At this point, that's of course pure speculation. Nevertheless, the Prophet '08's DCO engine (up to the Mopho x4) is the second oldest one DSI came up with, which seems to make it logical that this line of instruments is going to be next in line.
This allows for two conclusions: First of all, it's certain that DSI has now a gap in terms of low priced gear. Secondly, DSI might soon be left with only hybrid instruments, plus the Tempest. From that point of view it seems likely that further analog engines will be exclusively developed under the banner Sequential.
Either way, since both brands - DSI and Sequential - have to be kept organized in tandem, I wouldn't expect an immediate replacement for each of the five retired instruments, simply because of logistical restraints.
What I could imagine is also a monosynth based on the Prophet-6. Other options include a couple of more Eurorack modules. The Pro 2's oscillators come to my mind (I'm mentioning these exclusively because of the 13 Superwaves) as well as maybe some kind of sequencer module.
Other than that, I could definitely imagine entry level synths that are based on the Prophet-12's/Pro 2's architecture, but I have no clue what these could look like. Maybe, just maybe, a desktop version of the Pro 2 might still happen one day although I couldn't see the benefits if it's not approximately the same size as the Prophet-6 Desktop (i.e. Pro 2 minus the keyboard). Otherwise its whole appeal would be lost, and who would like to menu dive to enter the sequencer mode for example (that includes the option to record the automation of certain parameters on the fly for which you need a couple of knobs at hand instantly)?
All in all, though, these are all ideas based on already existing engines. Mainly because I can't imagine DSI/Sequential to release yet another flagship synth by early spring. If they would do so, it had to be something entirely different from the Prophet 12 and the Prophet-6. Given the developements in the Eurorack scene, the options for a new engine are countless. It would have to make sense as a stand alone synth though and be worth more than the sum of its parts. But I'm also confident that DSI/Sequential is able to surprise us with something we might not even expect them to do.
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I, too, wouldn't expect to see a new flagship for some time. The higher end seems to be well-provided for with the P12 and P6, but I would expect to eventually see a full-sized Sequential instrument that surpasses the P6. I think in the near future we'll see a mid-range instrument or two, perhaps even a four-voice Sequential keyboard. But I most expect a mono synth. It's NAMM that is of greatest interest right now.
As for the Prophet '08, I shudder at the thought of it being discontinued, although the day is surely approaching. But I have DSI's word that it will not be soon. Now could some one give me DSI's definition of "soon"? :'(
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Well... it seems logical, that something will be build on the P6 voice architecture later... otherwise DSI would not have made separate voice-boards for the P6... I bet they have plans on using these boards for other products as well... if not I do not see any reason to make them into small voiceboards in the first place... but one thing we can be certain off, is that we'll see new bells and whistles... even if it's a simple replacement 1-voice P6 to replace the now obsolete Mopho.
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But one thing we can be certain off, is that we'll see new bells and whistles... even if it's a simple replacement 1-voice P6 to replace the now obsolete Mopho.
I think folks would be quite happy to see such an instrument. It seems inevitable at this point. We might as well place our orders now!
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Great analysis, Paul Dither! I too agree that there is a lack in low cost instrument product range for DSI (and Sequential if that is an issue at all). So I hope that Dave and his team do not continue the sequential process of making one highly priced flagship instrument after another. But I do hope DSI and Sequential will continue to make more flagship instruments in the future as the market need that. Just please not every time!
Also I hope that DSI will not make any more monophonic instruments. You may ask: Why!? Well the front panel have a significant cost in itself and by having more voices the instrument gets a better price/performance rating. So my suggestion is that they make a duophonic instead of a monophonic instrument complete with layers and stack/split modes as this allows for stereo panned sounds as well as the usual stack/split use cases.
When it comes to the actual voice features in the coming NAMM candy one just have to guess. DSI have surprised us before and will hopefully do so again. So that could very well happen again next NAMM too! The rumor goes that Moog is on its way with a Minimoog Model D reissue. That will surely attract some attention. Wonder how the new thing made by DSI/Sequential will compare on the attention attraction front.
Maybe it could be time for a DSI instrument with a new multi-mode filter? My current dream is a state-interpolating multi-mode filter similar to what Modal 002/001 got just with free choice of filter mode for each of the three mode positions being interpolated between (similar to oscillator shapes on Prophet 12 and Pro 2). Would be a cool machine!
Dave have in recent instrument announcement videos talked about audio rate CV computation. Cool! So lets see more digital modulation features inspired from the modular world to allow for more expressive voices than what DSI instruments have provided before. The Oberheim Xpander needs a modern day update!
Anyway, you guessed it! Yet Another Voice Architecture Rant (TM). Sorry! 8) But maybe I could just manage to mention the need for multi-timbral features as well as the need for both analog and digital oscillators in the same voice. ;)
An interesting discussion is the price range it would make sense for DSI to offer products in. Look at recent years: Tempest, Prophet 12, Pro 2 and Prophet-6 (with the Mopho reissues deliberately omitted). None of these are exactly affordable machines. Could we expect DSI and Sequential to continue in the higher priced range only or would it make sense for them to make low/mid cost instruments too? Is the lower cost desktop module a dead end? What is the lowest price it would make sense for DSI and Sequential offer products for?
Well, only time will tell. Market positioning is an intricate art! Just hope we are not looking at a new line of jewels.
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Also I hope that DSI will not make any more monophonic instruments. You may ask: Why!? Well the front panel have a significant cost in itself and by having more voices the instrument gets a better price/performance rating. So my suggestion is that they make a duophonic instead of a monophonic instrument complete with layers and stack/split modes as this allows for stereo panned sounds as well as the usual stack/split use cases.
That would be an excellent idea, and it would offer an alternative to the very expensive Oberheim Two-Voice Pro.
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I, too, wouldn't expect to see a new flagship for some time. The higher end seems to be well-provided for with the P12 and P6, but I would expect to eventually see a full-sized Sequential instrument that surpasses the P6.
That might take a while. The Prophet-6 is still fairly new and sells rather well, especially if you take into account its price tag. An instrument that would surpass it would also (have to) be quite expensive. And unless instruments like the Modal Electronics 008 are not becoming part of the mainstream, I can't really see that happening. After all, you can already have a 12-voice Prophet for $4,998. I would situate a Prophet-6 with roughly the same modulation options like the Prophet '08 in between that price and the price of a single Prophet-6 Keyboard, but definitely not below $3,000. But why would Sequential be killing off its flagship? - To be honest, the latter is the main reason I don't expect anything like that to happen, at least not within the next three years.
As for the Prophet '08, I shudder at the thought of it being discontinued, although the day is surely approaching. But I have DSI's word that it will not be soon. Now could some one give me DSI's definition of "soon"? :'(
"Soon" would be Winter NAMM 2016. I would at least expect the Prophet '08 to make it through the next year, since I'd still imagine it to be quite popular, especially at its current price. Nevertheless, I interpret the latest retirement series as a way to start giving the DCO synths the count.
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But I have DSI's word that it will not be soon. Now could some one give me DSI's definition of "soon"? :'(
Well there are two options here:
(1) Maybe someone got a good offer for that extra Prophet 08 module that you need?
(2) Or maybe a new instrument would make you prefer to combine your Prophet 08's with this new module?
I would not worry here at the the state of synthesizer voices progresses over time and a new Curtis chip machine with more and better sounding oscillators could be a perfect match for your existing Prophet 08 setup.
That would be an excellent idea, and it would offer an alternative to the very expensive Oberheim Two-Voice Pro.
Thereby entering the strong fundamentals versus modulation options discussion again. I would love for DSI to make strong fundamental machines with plenty of modulation options.
A good argument for having layers in a two-voice is that the work required by making a poly from a duo or the other way around will be less as all the basic voice features already exists and are more or less ready to use in the next instrument with the same voice architecture. The simpler it is for DSI to make lower cost desktop modules the more likely its going to happen. The Prophet 12 module user interface layout also shows a good direction for such modules front panel. In other words there are plenty of good technical as well as musical reasons for duophonic rather than monophonic instruments.
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That might take a while. The Prophet-6 is still fairly new and sells rather well, especially if you take into account its price tag. An instrument that would surpass it would also (have to) be quite expensive. And unless instruments like the Modal Electronics 008 are not becoming part of the mainstream, I can't really see that happening. After all, you can already have a 12-voice Prophet for $4,998. I would situate a Prophet-6 with roughly the same modulation options like the Prophet '08 in between that price and the price of a single Prophet-6 Keyboard, but definitely not below $3,000. But why would Sequential be killing off its flagship? - To be honest, the latter is the main reason I don't expect anything like that to happen, at least not within the next three years.
As for the Prophet '08, I shudder at the thought of it being discontinued, although the day is surely approaching. But I have DSI's word that it will not be soon. Now could some one give me DSI's definition of "soon"? :'(
"Soon" would be Winter NAMM 2016. I would at least expect the Prophet '08 to make it through the next year, since I'd still imagine it to be quite popular, especially at its current price. Nevertheless, I interpret the latest retirement series as a way to start giving the DCO synths the count.
Remember that Dave is good for a few surprises; he's not that predictable. A couple of those Mopho keyboards surprised us, and the Prophet 6 certainly did as well. So, the Prophets 6 and 12 may not always be the top of the DSI line.
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An interesting discussion is the price range it would make sense for DSI to offer products in. Look at recent years: Tempest, Prophet 12, Pro 2 and Prophet-6 (with the Mopho reissues deliberately omitted). None of these are exactly affordable machines. Could we expect DSI and Sequential to continue in the higher priced range only or would it make sense for them to make low/mid cost instruments too? Is the lower cost desktop module a dead end? What is the lowest price it would make sense for DSI and Sequential offer products for?
Only an insight into their accounting could answer that. I'd interpret it as a matter of confidence though, if they start to focus more on pricier products; just like Modal Electronics, who simply say something like "we make real instruments for real musicians and that has its price." - It takes a bit of risk to embrace that sort of niche. On the other hand, it has always been part of DSI's image to also appear like an affordable manufacturer, which was even highlighted when the reduced prices for the Prophet '08 Keyboard and Module, the Prophet 12 Module, and the Mopho x4 were announced. In that regard, I wouldn't necessarily expect them to get rid of more affordable instruments for good.
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Remember that Dave is good for a few surprises; he's not that predictable.
Same thought here! So we just have to sit back and wait for the NAMM fun (and noise candy).
The process is probably best described by their own words:
https://twitter.com/dsiSequential/status/559271256092971009
. o O ( sounds like Carson )
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Remember that Dave is good for a few surprises; he's not that predictable. A couple of those Mopho keyboards surprised us, and the Prophet 6 certainly did as well. So, the Prophets 6 and 12 may not always be the top of the DSI line.
Sure. I just don't expect another flagship this soon, that's all. There's still plenty of stuff to cover for DSI/Sequential, though, and Razmo already pointed in one direction.
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Dave's business model seems to be to build whatever he wants and whenever he wants to! It sounds reckless, but it's a bit refreshing.
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In that regard, I wouldn't necessarily expect them to get rid of more affordable instruments for good.
Fingers crossed!
I hope that DSI will one day return to the low voice count duophonic/polyphonic desktop module business though I could be worried that Dave just wants to continue the jewel direction.
And then there is this discussion about modern multi-dimensional controllers which basically require a multi-timbral polyphonic synthesizer. So if DSI wants to be the preferred supplier of analog voices for such controllers they better start thinking about implementing multi-timbral features soon! That market is growing. KMI recently announced this interesting product allowing guitar players intricate control over individual synthesizer voices:
http://www.keithmcmillen.com/labs/stringport-2/
Only promising event is the complete surprise of supporting the MIDI Tuning Standard in Prophet-6 and later Prophet-12. That was a pretty good idea to move in that direction! Even one voice per channel multi-timbral would be great!
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Dave's business model seems to be to build whatever he wants and whenever he wants to! It sounds reckless, but it's a bit refreshing.
Well, Dave is a design artist. His just expresses himself in terms of synthesizers rather than other forms of spatial and/or temporal expression.
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And then there is this discussion about modern multi-dimensional controllers which basically require a multi-timbral polyphonic synthesizer. So if DSI wants to be the preferred supplier of analog voices for such controllers they better start thinking about implementing multi-timbral features soon! That market is growing. KMI recently announced this interesting product allowing guitar players intricate control over individual synthesizer voices:
http://www.keithmcmillen.com/labs/stringport-2/
In the podium discussion with Roger Linn and Tom Oberheim at this year's Gear Fest (by Sweetwater), Dave made it clear that he's primarily interested in the traditional keyboard controller, as it doesn't require any re-learning process. So unless he doesn't take a sudden 180 degree turn, I wouldn't expect anything in that direction.
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For some reason, Dave seems to enjoy making new itterations of his older popular synths... he always says that he do not want to do what he allready did, so he simply reuse the names a bit... the word "Prophet" has been overused in my opinion... but that may hint that he could once again create a new old one... and Sequential has made a sampler in the past... Prophet 2000 I think it was called? ... I can only hope that he'll be doing something with samples at some point... he also has the Wavestation on his list of achievements... if KORG would allow it, I'm sure he could end up making a new hybrid Wavestation or something similar... sample oscillators is the only thing Dave has not revisited with the exeption of the Tempest, but that's for a totaly different use.
I'm not saying that's eventualy what he will create... I just HOPE it will be because I'd really like to create sounds with small looped snippets of sampled waveforms, run through analog filters and VCA's.
But other than that... I really don't care what he's up to... it's usualy exiting anyway, and I REALLY do not need more GAS right now ;D
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Other than that, I think it's time for DSI Modular to get serious and put up a complete modular starter package with a "classic" DSI DCO, a snappy EG, and a digital multi-LFO module. It would basically be, "Yeah, there is no more Mopho. Here, build your own damn Mopho."
Well my impression of the eurorack modular market is that people pick the modules they want to use and combine them in the way they want. While a full DSI system could happen one day it may not be the primary use case for such users.
What is lacking is the possibllity to save presets and worse yet that matching even the lfo/envelope/modulation/sequencer features of a Mopho requires many expensive modules. The core of DSI's expertice is digital control so such a preset manager module would make lots of sense for DSI to produce. It could have OLED display, a few page selector buttons, USB and MIDI input, CV inputs as well as sixteen CV outputs and an optional extension module featuring sixteen more CV outputs.
Such a module would be a significantly increase the expressiveness of an eurorack modular system as well as possibly make it more affordable. And it will allow one to patch the signal flow up once and simply control all of the digital modulations via the preset manager module and/or a computer/tablet application. Once one gets tired of the current voice architecture one simply re-cable it and/or buy new modules. And it will allow generative methods too.
. o O ( me dreaming away )
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In the podium discussion with Roger Linn and Tom Oberheim at this year's Gear Fest (by Sweetwater), Dave made it clear that he's primarily interested in the traditional keyboard controller, as it doesn't require any re-learning process. So unless he doesn't take a sudden 180 degree turn, I wouldn't expect anything in that direction.
Yeah I know his often used arguments against alternate controllers. And no, he do not have to make instruments with alternate controllers as long as his modules support multi-timbral operation.
Honestly I think the core reason why DSI instruments (besides Tetra) do not support multi-timbral operation is the same question of software development resources that we see in other product related discussions all over the net. Enough said!
. o O ( >:( :-X :'( )
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Honestly I think the core reason why DSI instruments (besides Tetra) do not support multi-timbral operation is the same question of software development resources that we see in other product related discussions all over the net. Enough said!
Can you elaborate?
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Can you elaborate?
Short summary: number of software developers working on the OS for their products.
If DSI had more than one OS developer I am sure multi-timbral operation would have happened a long time ago.
They do have a DSP developer too but that is not the part of the OS where multi-timbral features happen.
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Gotcha.
Well, I certainly wouldn't say no to 16 times multi-timbrality, just like it used to be standard in the early 1990s.
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There are several interesting possibilities for multi-timbral operation. One is the Tetra way with one MIDI channel per hardware voice. Would be perfect for my uses though it would be nice if a poly with layers would support two hardware voices per MIDI channel. Then there is the dynamic voice assignment mode which Tempest uses and that would be really interesting to have but quite likely challenging when stack/split are taken into account (not to mention unison mode though I feel that its best ignored in multi-timbral mode).
One MIDI channel per hardware voice would be a good start.
. o O ( pipe dream of the week )
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It seems there is a consensus here that something new from DSI - something none of us knows about - will be shown at NAMM 2016.
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How about a Prophet VS type thing, with mini keys ;)
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:o . o O ( insert plastic oscillator rant )
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How about a Prophet VS type thing, with mini keys ;)
>:( Don't get me started!
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We probably should start a "Next New DSI Synthesizer" thread, where everyone can relieve their instrument dreams/fantasies, in the hopes of influencing DSI. I sense this thread is quickly headed there.
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. o O ( we apologize for the inconvenience )
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Here is a recent Dave interview where he says a few things about whats up next:
https://youtu.be/BazvKgF_RXc?t=11m4s
Not voice architecture hints though. :'( But I would be surprised if its a Curtis chip machine with their build-in analog oscillators.
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Well, he's not revealing anything (no surprise), except that they're planning to announce something new at NAMM. This snippet makes me wonder about something else though. It almost sounds as if Dave would like to release a new flagship (aka "something bigger") every year.
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Well my guess is that making a new instrument is a lot of work no matter its size and voice count.
These days Pym must have good implementation of fundamentals like voice voice code, USB and MIDI drivers and parsing, voice allocation, MIDI tuning standard, sequencers, flash memory management and all that jazz. But there will still be a lot of work to do such as specific voice features, front panel event handling, interaction with DSPs and so on.
Then add all the hardware design, the front panel user interface/graphics design and all the mechanical features such as casing, wheels and keybed. Not to mention production planning, ordering of parts, getting circuit boards produced, test procedures to be used in the outsourced production facility, a manual, product photography, the web page describing the product and the product announcement video to be thrown at the synth hungry crowds at time of release.
I can easily see them wanting to take six to nine months or more to make a new instrument from idea to shipping product. Even for a small voice count module like the ones I am after.
In other words: While I would not be too surprised if yet another jewel is flashed at next NAMM it could easily be a smaller instrument too.
. o O ( the intricate art of impatience )
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The more I think about it the less I will be surprised if DSI ends up releasing a new Curtis chip machine with new analog oscillators at NAMM 2016. Reason? They discontinued a whole bunch of Curtis chip instruments and that leaves space for new designs with better digital control than the old machines. Plus that it will make the new design more affordable and compact. Plus that new and better sounding analog oscillators - such as those from Prophet-6 - would make a positive sonic difference compared to the older instruments.
One could imagine the new instrument use an improved version of the Pro 2 sequencer which later will be ported back into Pro 2 OS. Pym have said elsewhere he wanted to work out all the edge cases. A good way to do it!
Anyway, we will know more in less than two months!
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It's still a bit early, but it's almost time for Chris to start dropping tantalizing little hints about NAMM.
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It's still a bit early, but it's almost time for Chris to start dropping tantalizing little hints about NAMM.
No one got the Shakespeare hint before the Prophet-6 was announced, so…
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8) . o O ( its full of stars )
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How about a picture - something subtle, like this?
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8) . o O ( its full of stars )
A Space Odyssey?
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How about a picture - something subtle, like this?
Hmmm, does it have knobs?
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But that is a knob. Can't you see it? Just stare at it for a while, and the knob will appear.
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But that is a knob. Can't you see it? Just stare at it for a while, and the knob will appear.
Ah, so a new color scheme? Blue synths with white knobs?
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Thankfully so.
Dunno if it's just me, but I find it very hard to predict what DSI/Sequential are going to come up with at the coming NAMM.
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Ditto. Is Dave up to creating something completely unforeseen and different, or will we see more of the usual (which would be fine with me)? A smaller one or two-voice version of the Prophet 6? A replacement for the Prophet 08? A module? Or a totally unexpected all-digital poly synth? I really would expect him to wade into Prophet VS or Korg Wavestation waters sooner or later.
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Good question on next new DSI product, Paul Dither and Sacred Synthesis. I sort of expect it not to be my kind of voice architecture or simply be too expensive (same old jewel story). But I know from various Dave interviews and forum discussions that DSI are a lot less predictable than they used to be. They simply build what they think would be cool. Which is fine with me as it makes the gearmas wait even more interesting!
Also we are way past the Yet Another Mopho Release (TM) days and are progressing into a different time where DSI have way more development muscle (note: I did not say software maintenance muscle) so their creativity really shines. Which is good in many ways as it makes the synthesizer market much more interesting.
I would be pleasantly surprised if DSI manages to steal the show this year too. The Prophet-6 was spot on but there are only so many classics to apply the same recipe to. Also my impression is that Prophet 12 did not do the same amount of show stealing as Prophet-6 did. So all I will do is to look forward to see what they come up with and in particular if they continue with jewels only or make something more affordable instead.
What we can hope for is an instrument expanding the sonic envelope by having both analog and digital oscillators in the same voice architecture. That would be really nice. But of cause I am totally blue box biased. Also I would - given the large number of discontinued Curtis chip machines - not be too surprised if a new Curtis chip machine shows up this time. With new analog oscillators, Prophet 12 style layers, Pro 2 style voice architecture and even the highpass filter of Prophet 12 and Prophet-6 would be really interesting. But maybe that would be too predictable!? ;)
In other words: not much new to add here. Will have to wait and see what happens!
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Since this is the supreme and official DSI forum to end all DSI forums...I do hope Chris stops by soon to offer us some tantalizing NAMM hints. It's approximately that time, give or take a week.
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:-X . o O ( to hint or not to hint )
:o . o O ( take that as a hint )
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That's right! Chris...paging Chris, please.
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Today's introspective Facebook entry:
"Year’s end is a time for reflection, thoughts about where we’ve been, where we are, and where we’re going.
Dave started Dave Smith Instruments in 2002 with no grand plan. He just thought it would be fun to make a new hardware synth. There wasn’t even another employee until 2007, a move prompted in part by Dave’s desire to spend more time on a bicycle and less time on the phone or in front of a computer.
DSI has grown over the past 13 years, but is still a small company, a group of fiercely dedicated individuals focused on creating instruments that inspire and delight us, in the hope that you will feel the same.
2015 has been a very good year for DSI and we couldn’t be more grateful for the support you’ve given us. We’re hard at work on several new things for 2016 and beyond and we can’t wait to share them with you. (You won’t have to wait too long for one of them….)
Thank you for giving us the opportunity to do what we love. All of us at DSI wish you a happy, healthy, safe, and peaceful 2016."
https://www.facebook.com/davesmithinstruments/ (https://www.facebook.com/davesmithinstruments/)
Sounds like there are going to be a few things to come. Hurray!
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Aha! Our first hint for NAMM 2016!
"one of them"
Okay guys, let's analyze every syllable for clues. ???
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Suspected DSI synth forecast for 2016:
- One new Curtis chip based keyboard instrument (ref mass discontinuations).
- One new module based on the above keyboard instrument.
- One new eurowreck module based on an existing DSI instrument feature.
:o . o O ( fast running required )
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Aha! Our first hint for NAMM 2016!
"one of them"
Okay guys, let's analyze every syllable for clues. ???
Let me see. Here are some anagrams that may hint at something:
Footmen He
Often Home
Fete On Ohm
Theme Of On
Teen Of Ohm*
Hot Foe Men
Note Of Hem
Hoe Em Font
The Omen Of…
I leave you with that food for thought.
* "Teen Of Ohm" will probably be the successor to the Mopho. Instead of yellow it'll be pink and baby blue, and it's going to revolutionize the techno scene…
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Suspected DSI synth forecast for 2016:
- One new Curtis chip based keyboard instrument (ref mass discontinuations).
- One new module based on the above keyboard instrument.
- One new eurowreck module based on an existing DSI instrument feature.
:o . o O ( fast running required )
Aren't you supposed to be on a New Year's Eve party right now? - Anyway: Godt nytår!
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Aha! Our first hint for NAMM 2016!
"one of them"
Okay guys, let's analyze every syllable for clues. ???
Let me see. Here are some anagrams that may hint at something:
Footmen He
Often Home
Fete On Ohm
Theme Of On
Teen Of Ohm*
Hot Foe Men
Note Of Hem
Hoe Em Font
The Omen Of…
I leave you with that food for thought.
* "Teen Of Ohm" will probably be the successor to the Mopho. Instead of yellow it'll be pink and baby blue, and it's going to revolutionize the techno scene…
No, no, no, Paul! You're thinking too hard. It's clear that Chris has dropped here one of his infamous hints. But we mustn't over-analyze and fall for his ploy. The name of the new instrument clearly is...the Prophet One of Them.
Brilliant...original...even daring.
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Ha, certainly!
Well, if it's going to be a Pro One successor I'm happy for chysn.
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Aren't you supposed to be on a New Year's Eve party right now? - Anyway: Godt nytår!
It was over by the time I wrote the above. The fireworks were quite nice though seems to be less than previous years.
Tak i lige måde da! Rigtig godt nytår! Hvad med et godt synth-år? :)
Anyone noticed that Chris stole some of Carson's beard - or that Carson have left?
:o . o O ( Prophet Teen )
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Hvad med et godt synth-år? :)
Only if it doesn't break my bank account. ;)
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I expect to see one or two new modules. Perhaps these might be a Pro 2 module and a Four-voice multi-timbal analog module featuring the newer filter, effects and arpegiator options. I hope these have more knobs than the Mopho and Tetra, but are still affordable to average working Joe's with families like myself.
I also expect some multi-timbral analog polysynth keyboard with about four voices, but in the lower price range that would work well as a controller/programmer for newer modules.
I would love Dave to incorporate an analog vocoder, but I don't know if he has ever done so.
I would love to see someone develop a synth that has FRACTAL WAVEFORMS for something completely different.
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How is it that, after all the belly-aching about the Poly Evolver's limited voices, four voice instruments are becoming popular? For me, a four-voice synthesizer means a left-handed instrument for accompanying chords - and not played arpeggios - or else, a sort of monophonic instrument with the ability of adding occasional harmonies.
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How is it that, after all the belly-aching about the Poly Evolver's limited voices, four voice instruments are becoming popular? For me, a four-voice synthesizer means a left-handed instrument for accompanying chords - and not played arpeggios - or else, a sort of monophonic instrument with the ability of adding occasional harmonies.
Also: 4 Evolver voices are still something different than just 4 voices in a standard analog synth.
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Most likely price! I would love to have a four voice as long as its complex voices and multi-timbral. But then again my use cases are much different from yours. How many voices would you like to have in your dream keyboard instrument?
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For mono-timbral sounds, twelve voices would be just right, to make allowance for wide arpeggios with long release times. But in the case of a left-hand instrument used for chords, six to eight can suffice.
I've been imaging the sound of a Prophet 12 in stack mode combined with a Prophet 6 module. Now that would make a beautiful sound.
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More exciting than that, I've been told we can count on some forthcoming hints on the new DSI piece, in old forum tradition.
Very easy to guess! Just look at what I am dreaming about on the complex voice architecture front and subtract that from the new product.
:o . o O ( gearmas illusions )
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Very easy to guess! Just look at what I am dreaming about on the complex voice architecture front and subtract that from the new product.
What's your best guess - a two-voice version of the P6?
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What's your best guess - a two-voice version of the P6?
Good question! I will wait and see. But I have noticed that they have been promoting lots of Curtis music and images on their social media recently so that could be interpreted as pointing towards a new Curtis machines.
Would of cause like to see them recover from their black and white on/off switch focus and add features to support new forms of expression. Same old song! Anyway, my best bet is a new Curtis machine build around the new voice architecture ingredients developed in recent years.
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That would suit me just fine - something like an updated Prophet '08 with a better filter and a few onboard effects.
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Yeah something like that with Prophet 12 style digital oscillators, newly designed variable wave shape DCOs, Oberheim style state variable filter and hopefully sequencer/delays of Prophet 12 and Pro 2. Could be tasty!
. o O ( multi-threaded voice architecture digressions )
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I hope Dave continue to release modules of his various synth engines to expand the polyphony of the great keyboards he builds. I would like to see a Mopho 2 and a Tetra 2, but with just a few more knobs and the longer arpegiators.
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Interesting NAMM hints in "An Evening with Dave Smith" at Pyramind in November last year:
https://youtu.be/fmhdYJDnfsU?t=24m14s
"We have something coming out in a couple of months that will really surprise people".
Plus some mention of a long term project.
Interesting!
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10 days left…
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T-10 days and beeping! . o O ( ::) )
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"We have something coming out in a couple of months that will really surprise people".
Maybe an app? ;D
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"We have something coming out in a couple of months that will really surprise people".
Maybe an app? ;D
A fax machine? That would really surprise people.
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"We have something coming out in a couple of months that will really surprise people".
Maybe an app? ;D
A fax machine? That would really surprise people.
Well, as long as it has full MIDI specs and USB…
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Re-issued Evolver?
Mono synth with no presets and MIDI control?
Sampler keyboard?
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Re-issued Evolver?
Mono synth with no presets and MIDI control?
Sampler keyboard?
The Evolver isn't even fully gone yet.
A mono synth wouldn't be so surprising, but they'd hardly omit MIDI control.
A sampler would only be half surprising, because it's not like Dave has never done that before.
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And yet all three could happen. Of cause if one got advance knowledge it easier to speak up but I don't. Hoping to see new integrations of analog and digital features but we will see what happens. Could be fun with an App but seriously it would have to be an editor if it should make any sense. But of cause we would all have a good laugh if its a softsynth!
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I don't have any advanced knowledge about the upcoming instruments. It's just that I can't see the Evolver making a return, when it hasn't even fully disappeared yet. The retirement announcement isn't that old and it's still available in most places.
As for a mono without presets and MIDI: I'm not sure if it would make sense for DSI/Sequential to do that for the sake of cutting down costs (this is the only reason I could imagine for doing something like this). Why should they begin to compete with companies like Korg et al, who can always produce cheaper? Beyond that, even the Volcas have rudimentary MIDI functions.
Now a sampler is - at least in my view - the likeliest of these options. Paired with analog filters it would make a reasonable addition to the DSI catalog.
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Well DSI got to make a better hybrid machine one day inspired from Evolver/Prophet 12/Pro 2. And yeah a sampler keyboard would be cool. Or who knows something with digital granular synthesis oscillators? There are many interesting options as Dave mentions in the Pyramind interviews.
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I'm sure a new hybrid machine in the vein of the Evolver, Prophet 12, and Pro 2 won't happen within the next 2-3 years. The Prophet 12 is only 3 years old by now and just got a major update. So if anything new will be introduced, it will probably be in a different shape or form. Since DSI/Sequential are relatively small, I find it hard to imagine another flagship synth anytime soon for simply logistical reasons. Maybe one more that offers something all of their other instruments don't. Dunno. What would be cool, though, is if they'd follow the original Evolver route (i.e. a small and affordable instrument) in order to test the waters for new stuff.
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What the Evolver can do is filters in stereo and having both analog and digital oscillators which isn't in the product line currently. And it doesn't need to be a flagship instrument. DSI could use a standard case with a standard user interface ala P12M and we would be rolling. Plus smaller voice count to make it more affordable. By having a standard case and user interface for their affordable desktop synthesizers a lot of work will be saved when making a new one. Same old idea, you know!
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Maybe I'm just trying to be too realistic. Some new stereo filter action would definitely be nice!
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Yeah they sound very good! However I would much prefer layers and mono voices that can be layered when stereo filter configuration is needed as its more cost effective and expressive than a fixed stereo filter configuration of the Evolver.
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Yeah they sound very good! However I would much prefer layers and mono voices that can be layered when stereo filter configuration is needed as its more cost effective and expressive than a fixed stereo filter configuration of the Evolver.
Having both choices (stereo channels and/or layers) in one instrument would be nifty.
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Different kind of stack mode really. The challenge is that the place the parameters are copied from in the program vector would be less easy for the OS developer to code plus that some of the parameters needs to be mangled when configuring the second voice from the first layer. And would these mangling rules work for everyone involved?
Just having layers would be perfectly fine with me. But of cause I would love to see a stereo panned stack mode like on the Evolver.
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I'd love to see it, but I think a new Evolver is the last thing DSI will produce. Dave continues to repeat that he doesn't do re-issues. The Prophet 6 is the closest thing to an exception, but that's perhaps because the Prophet 5 was his hallmark and continues to be something of a standard for him. If you remember, the MEK and PEK were initially advertised as the new Pro One and Prophet 5.
As an interesting note, DSI was already making the Prophet 6 before they were offered back the Sequential name from Yamaha. So, there very nearly was a DSI Prophet 6.
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Reissued Evolver = Prophet 12 style voice + analog oscillators + analog filter feedback
Its not really all that far away from current knowhow. And would be a good chance for DSI to design new discrete electronics variable waveshape DCOs. Having advanced voice architecture small voice count compact user interface modules sets the instrument enough apart from the current competition that lower budget users would buy them in large numbers. Right now current DSI offerings are way too expensive for many users. Same old story, you know!
And yeah I remember the ad immediately when you mentioned it. Great looking and sounding machines!
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Yes, the Evolver Keyboards are definitely good lookers, and two or more look fabulous in the dark.
There's no doubt DSI has the ability to make new Evolvers, and do a better job than was done before with the technology they've developed and refined these last few years. But it's a matter more of the will, and I don't believe Dave has the will to make an Evolver Mk II. And if he presented such a scheme to his staff as you described above, I think they all have enough brains to realize the old Evolver fans would be disappointed with the new Evolver's refined character. I think many of us took to the Evolver's imperfections as a distinctive sort of personality. What Evolver folks would prefer is more likely the old Evolvers, but now 100% bug-free. I don't know if that's even possible.
One of the most common comments I see online regarding the Mono and Poly Evolvers is that there's simply nothing else like them. I would agree, and I'd add that they covered an amazing amount of sonic territory. That's one of the reasons I had seriously considered having an all-Evolver set up.
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Good point! If we abstract a bit the key Evolver features are (1) both analog and digital oscillators plus (2) interesting integration of analog and digital. There will be plenty of solutions inside that design space that will sound much better than the Evolver and have plenty of new interesting features that will set it apart.
I think there is a reason why you think so high of the Prophet 08: all analog signal path. The combination of the Evolver and an all analog signal path would be great and span a larger space of possible sounds.
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I think there is a reason why you think so high of the Prophet 08: all analog signal path. The combination of the Evolver and an all analog signal path would be great and span a larger space of possible sounds.
Yes, you're right. I'm completely over my former digital synthesizer quest. No more Blofeld talk from me, or any other digital instrument. I'm content to have the eight-voice Poly Evolver remian my one and only digital hybrid synthesizer. For the rest, I'm interested in pure analog sound and features. Hence, my interest in an ARP 2600 re-issue, or something else like a Dominion 1. But again, I could have made due with just Evolvers.
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I'm completely over my former digital synthesizer quest.
So no Prophet 12 or Pro 2?
My main reason for liking the Evolver is the digital sounds on a solid analog foundation. Would love to see a new take on that concept (as you may have heard before).
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So no Prophet 12 or Pro 2?
My main reason for liking the Evolver is the digital sounds on a solid analog foundation. Would love to see a new take on that concept (as you may have heard before).
Well, I'm ultimately interested in everything that DSI makes, but I'd like to limit myself to four keyboard synthesizers, and those four have to cover the right sort of sonic ground. Having a mixed bag, such as a Poly Evolver, Prophet 12, and a Pro 2 all in one set up would make no sense to me. I need only one polyphonic digital instrument. That would mean either the Poly Evolver or the Prophet 12. The rest need to be strong analog instruments. The Pro 2 still interests me because I like the voice architecture, the filter seems to be really strong, and because I could supplement it with an analog module or two. So, I'm only considering one instrument these days, to replace one of my Poly Evolvers. It will have to perform heavy monophonic duties. So, It could be a Prophet 6 plus a module, or a Pro 2 plus a module. Or else, some other classic analog mono synth.
DSLSynth, I know fairly well your interests. Why don't you do as I'm doing? Forget the idea of having it all under one hood and pair together a couple of modules - one digital and one analog. Take a SEM or a Boomstar and add to it some digital piece that impresses you. It's the surest way of satisfying your ideals.
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I shouldn't be, but I'm just hanging around the internet, checking this site and that, looking for NAMM news. I'm expecting Chris (Ahem! ;D) to drop us a hint any day now. So far, nothing much in the way of news. Anybody come across something interesting, other than that little Korg?
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Why don't you do as I'm doing? Forget the idea of having it all under one hood and pair together a couple of modules - one digital and one analog.
Oh I have been thinking about that a large number of times. When I was considering a MI Shruthi the plan was to let a yellow box supply the required analog foundation via external input. Going the eurorack or semi-modular way will be very expensive and bulky. Having the complex modulation and digital features run in a DSP makes the instrument a lot more compact and affordable. Which is why I keep hoping for DSI making such modules one day.
Said in another way the eurorack modules will have a lot of D/A and A/D converters while a complex voice architecture module let the digital features stay inside in the digital domain for as long as possible with is a much more cost effective. I have recently started looking at eurorack modules so who knows. Would require a good digital modulation module from DSI though to keep such a modular under digital control.
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I shouldn't be, but I'm just hanging around the internet, checking this site and that, looking for NAMM news. I'm expecting Chris (Ahem! ;D) to drop us a hint any day now. So far, nothing much in the way of news. Anybody come across something interesting, other than that little Korg?
Not really. There's the often talked about Yamaha Montage, an AWM2 + FM synth (http://www.matrixsynth.com/2016/01/namm-rumor-new-yamaha-montage-awm2-fm-x.html (http://www.matrixsynth.com/2016/01/namm-rumor-new-yamaha-montage-awm2-fm-x.html)) that's probably the follow-up to the Motif series, something (ahem) "new" from Nord (http://www.matrixsynth.com/2016/01/clavia-nord-keyboards-see-you-at-namm.html (http://www.matrixsynth.com/2016/01/clavia-nord-keyboards-see-you-at-namm.html)), and supposedly a white version of the JD-XA.
Everything else has already been posted in the general NAMM thread or in the "Other Hardware" forum.
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As an interesting note, DSI was already making the Prophet 6 before they were offered back the Sequential name from Roland.
From Yamaha, but that is interesting. I figured that the name was part of a grand strategy for DSI to explore two directions at once. Maybe it is, and we won't know for sure until there are more Sequential instruments.
I do like the idea of a DSI sampling keyboard, especially if it has a crossfading sequencer like the Wavestation. That was some fun synthesis, and I think it would be a blast with custom waveforms.
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Thanks for the correction - Yamaha, not Roland. I've changed my original post.
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I figured that the name was part of a grand strategy for DSI to explore two directions at once. Maybe it is, and we won't know for sure until there are more Sequential instruments.
It'll be interesting to see, since it's still one of the unanswered questions what both brands are ultimately going to stand for.
I do like the idea of a DSI sampling keyboard, especially if it has a crossfading sequencer like the Wavestation. That was some fun synthesis, and I think it would be a blast with custom waveforms.
That would definitely be a fun idea. Revising the Prophet 3000 and the Wavestation in one go.
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Teaser posted by DSI on their twitter:
(http://pbs.twimg.com/media/CYyRx7bUwAAJqjN.jpg)
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Thanks, Exode! So here we go.
I say it's a...portamento module!
Now isn't this reverting to old synth terminology? I'm still inclined to use the term instead of the now more popular "glide".
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Yeah it lurks pretty sequentially! . o O ( 8) )
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That's what I'm thinking. Plus, the Prophet 6 uses the term "Glide," so this may not be directly related to it.
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Definitely very Sequentially. A revisited Pro One?
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That's what I'm thinking. Plus, the Prophet 6 uses the term "Glide," so this may not be directly related to it.
Good observation. This is the first time the word "Portamento" is used instead of "Glide".
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I would not be too surprised if its a Pro One without any preset memory. On the other hand it could be so many other things as well.
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A Portamento-izer: Bend the cosmic harmony by pressing just one button.
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I would be shocked if Dave didn't, sooner or later, produce some modern rendition of the SC Pro One. I'm nearly certain he will, whether or not this is actually it. The outstanding success of the Prophet 6 could only encourage him the more.
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The only clue in that photo is the knob type, which is similar to the Prophet 6 devices... thus, it is most likely a product with a "Sequential" logo on it... if it's a Pro One... could be... could also be the new "Mopho" in some way... but that could probably easily carry the name "Pro One"... Dave has a tendency to reuse the names, but the synth is nowhere near the originals.
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I would be shocked if Dave didn't, sooner or later, produce some modern rendition of the SC Pro One. I'm nearly certain he will, whether or not this is actually it. The outstanding success of the Prophet 6 could only encourage him the more.
But honestly.... was the Pro 2 not the successor to the Pro One? ... hence the name "Pro 2" !?
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My guess: A single voice of the Prophet 6... something in that direction...
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I would be shocked if Dave didn't, sooner or later, produce some modern rendition of the SC Pro One. I'm nearly certain he will, whether or not this is actually it. The outstanding success of the Prophet 6 could only encourage him the more.
But honestly.... was the Pro 2 not the successor to the Pro One? ... hence the name "Pro 2" !?
In a way, yes. In the foreword Dave wrote for the manual it says the following:
With the current demand for all things analog, I’ve been asked many times if I would ever consider reissuing the Pro-One monosynth. My response has always been the same: “You’ve got to keep moving forward.” The simple truth is, I’m happiest creating new instruments—synths that put more power and better sounds into the hands of musicians with every iteration.
But actions speak louder than words, so here’s the last one on that particular subject: the Pro 2. It’s light years beyond the Pro-One in every way and is the culmination of my many years designing synthesizers. It’s also the deepest and most powerful monosynth I’ve ever created, so it should keep you busy exploring the outer limits of sound for quite some time.
Now, I don't know whether Dave's most recent comment about a surprise coming is in any way related to this statement in the Pro 2 manual. Strictly speaking, the Prophet-6 was already a departure of the above mentioned philosophy.
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But honestly.... was the Pro 2 not the successor to the Pro One? ... hence the name "Pro 2" !?
It'll be the Prophet 1, or something like that.
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But honestly.... was the Pro 2 not the successor to the Pro One? ... hence the name "Pro 2" !?
Dave evolves his ideas. The Mono and Poly Evolver keyboards were advertised as the new Pro One and Prophet 5. Then the Prophet '08 became a sort of new P5 and the Mopho Keyboard the new Pro One. And now the P6 is the real new P5. So, they are at one point, but then they aren't when a new instrument comes along.
Is the Pro 2 really the new Pro One? I think the slight name differentiation says it isn't. Which is to say, a new monophonic Sequential instrument could be called a "Prophet One," and that could be the real new Pro One.
But this is all just guessing. Maybe the new Sequential synthesizer will be an entirely new design. I'm all for that.
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Also, don't forget that the Mopho brick's motherboard was etched with "Pro One II".
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Interesting - I didn't know that. So that was going to be the Mopho's original name. I would have far preferred it.
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Maybe it's the answer to this: http://dsiforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=5659 (http://dsiforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=5659)
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To answer the original question in that post - yes, I have found DSI's polyphonic glide to be useful. True, it's not what you expect and can be unpredictable and difficult to tame, especially when playing broken double octaves with your right hand. But I've found in small amounts that it works well for providing a subtle natural sounding nuance between notes, especially if you're playing contrapuntal music, rather than one chord after another. It's inconsistent, but you can turn that to your advantage. It would be nice to have both types of portamento available if possible, but, if limited to only one, I'd rather have the current type. It makes DSI synthesizers unique from others. But if DSI is signaling that they're moving on to a new type of portamento with the above picture, I'll be fine with that, too, since I have plenty of the old.
I used glide in this piece. It's on throughout, but is only triggered here and there. You can hear it "trip" and even trigger the delay at 8:07, but at other times it makes for a really nice effect.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HoeM8eiruo
I don't at all mind these little imperfections. It's part of the analog mystique. In an age of "perfect" computer-generated music, it's a reminder that some music is still made by living, breathing, imperfect human beings.
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I may be repeating myself, but if the pro 2 is not the successor of something, then why the "2"?
But i do agree, that the naming at DSI, seems to be rather loose, so you probably cannot guess anything by that.
Still, i really do not give much for This teaser pic... It shows nothing really, exept that it Will Be an SCI product most likely.
One Thing though... If it was to be a one voice P6, the interface would have to be greatly diminished, and an LCD/OLED added to compensate for the P6's knobby interface, otherwise it would get pretty expensive. But if that would be the case, then why put a dedicated portamento button on it?
The portamento button Makes me think that we Are dealing with a bigger product perhaps... Maybe Even something with a built in keyboard. Maybe it is not Low price anyway.
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Well, the only strange thing is the change in terminology. If I remember correctly, it used to be called "Glide" since the Sequential days.
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IIRC, 'portamento' was intended to be a smooth ramp from pitch to pitch on other instruments; 'glide' was (or could be) a discrete transition from pitch to pitch (think the intro to Loverboy's "Turn Me Loose", which may have been on a P5).
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I don't remember where I read it, but someone pointed out that the E in portamento looks an awful lot like the font used on the Oberheim OB-X/OB-Xa. Also those Oberheim synths used the portamento term. Hires image of the OB-Xa for reference (http://medias.audiofanzine.com/images/normal/oberheim-ob-xa-821093.jpg)
Wouldn't it be quite unexpected if DSI announced a modern take on one of those Oberheims (with Tom's blessings).
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It could even be a collaboration with Tom Oberheim! Tom have previously been saying that he was working on an analog poly with the same kind of circuits as in the SEM. Who knows if DSI decided to help him out?
Also I would suggest going over all the SCI instruments looking for Portamento buttons to check for alternative inspiration sources.
. o O ( gearmas speculation week )
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IIRC, 'portamento' was intended to be a smooth ramp from pitch to pitch on other instruments; 'glide' was (or could be) a discrete transition from pitch to pitch (think the intro to Loverboy's "Turn Me Loose", which may have been on a P5).
I don't have Turn Me Loose at hand right now, but Portamento and Glide are used synonymously. Discrete steps between two pitches are called Glissando, often found on Yamaha synthesizers.
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...I can imagine DSI staff sitting there, laughing at all this guessing about ;D
... really... we don't know shit... we just have to wait and see what it is.
But I'm REALLY intrigued... I've always wanted a synth with a portamento button! ... it's groundbreaking synthesis!
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I don't remember where I read it, but someone pointed out that the E in portamento looks an awful lot like the font used on the Oberheim OB-X/OB-Xa. Also those Oberheim synths used the portamento term. Hires image of the OB-Xa for reference (http://medias.audiofanzine.com/images/normal/oberheim-ob-xa-821093.jpg)
Wouldn't it be quite unexpected if DSI announced a modern take on one of those Oberheims (with Tom's blessings).
This.
A big-azz poly-synth collaboration-hybrid "Prophet/OB"
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Also I would suggest going over all the SCI instruments looking for Portamento buttons to check for alternative inspiration sources.
I did so yesterday. No signs of portamento buttons on Sequential synths, only "Glide".
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https://www.instagram.com/p/BAQSkSOpSPW/
Check the video in the link above... what is it the guy next to Dave is playing? ... I think this is what we're talking about ;)
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https://www.instagram.com/p/BAQSkSOpSPW/
Check the video in the link above... what is it the guy next to Dave is playing? ... I think this is what we're talking about ;)
Good catch, Razmo. I was just about to post that one as well. It looks to me like it's the Pro 2. That's at least where it's usually placed in the showroom if I remember correctly from other shots (see below).
(https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/12341557_1113882878636575_3510488308013202916_n.jpg?oh=d72e78d7fcff5aaa595bb95d7f0a63bb&oe=5748F335)
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Well... it shure looks like the Pro2 now that you mention it... it's a bit tricky to see because there is no color in this video... but what is that keyboard that looks "white" all out to the right in the picture when the cam moves to the right side? ...
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Well... it shure looks like the Pro2 now that you mention it... it's a bit tricky to see because there is no color in this video... but what is that keyboard that looks "white" all out to the right in the picture when the cam moves to the right side? ...
Not sure about that one. Maybe a Mopho in black & white?
On GS, people are speculating, whether this could be a joint venture of Oberheim and DSI. Oberheim used the term "Portamento". Even the font looks similar if you look at the "E" (see below).
(http://medias.audiofanzine.com/images/normal/oberheim-ob-xa-821093.jpg)
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I don't know... I't could be, because Tom seems to only do analog... he may have gained Dave's help to make things digitaly controllable with presets etc... the coding part so to speak... but we'll just have to wait and see.
About that white synth... it does not look deep enough to be a Mopho keyboard, but then again... the video is not that good... afterall, the new device may not even be in the video at all...
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I don't know... I't could be, because Tom seems to only do analog... he may have gained Dave's help to make things digitaly controllable with presets etc... the coding part so to speak... but we'll just have to wait and see.
About that white synth... it does not look deep enough to be a Mopho keyboard, but then again... the video is not that good... afterall, the new device may not even be in the video at all...
Yeah, that's what I think. The prototype might have been on a bench somewhere else, not in the showroom, where it's not easy to keep it a secret.
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The "white" synth is actualy a Mopho Keyboard... just checked.
There are two more keyboards just behind where Dave is standing, but you can see absolutely none of them really...
Guess. we'll just have to wait some more still...
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Actually, a joint venture isn't too unlikely. Tom Oberheim helped out already on the state variable filter of the Pro 2. And in a recent Q+A session Dave mentioned that the next product would be a surprise.
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...I can imagine DSI staff sitting there, laughing at all this guessing about ;D
It's probably the only joy they get in life, so happy to help. Here we go...
Actually, a joint venture isn't too unlikely. Tom Oberheim helped out already on the state variable filter of the Pro 2. And in a recent Q+A session Dave mentioned that the next product would be a surprise.
We're assuming that this is a picture from a part of the new product. Maybe it's not. We know (esp. from the Tempest) that DSI likes a bit of wordplay in their pre-announcement clues. "Portamento" is a near-homophone for "portmanteau," which refers to a word that arises from combining two previously-existing words (e.g., paratrooper and... um... fleshlight). So the new instrument could be a hybrid of some type, either architecturally, or as a joint or cooperative venture.
To take this ridiculousness ever further, a portmanteau was also a suitcase with two large compartments. So perhaps an instrument built into its own case (think ARP 2600).
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I may be repeating myself, but if the pro 2 is not the successor of something, then why the "2"?
I realize we're splitting hairs over this, but we're probably taking the names too seriously or literally. The name Pro 2 seems to suggest it's the new Pro 1. But that would mean, since the Pro 2 is basically one voice of the Prophet 12, that the Prophet 12 must be the new Prophet 5. And that definitely isn't the case.
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IIRC, 'portamento' was intended to be a smooth ramp from pitch to pitch on other instruments; 'glide' was (or could be) a discrete transition from pitch to pitch (think the intro to Loverboy's "Turn Me Loose", which may have been on a P5).
The proper term for that should be "Glissando," which some synthesizers do have.
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IIRC, 'portamento' was intended to be a smooth ramp from pitch to pitch on other instruments; 'glide' was (or could be) a discrete transition from pitch to pitch (think the intro to Loverboy's "Turn Me Loose", which may have been on a P5).
The proper term for that should be "Glissando," which some synthesizers do have.
Well, the official DSI explanation has always been this: "Glide or portamento causes the pitch of a note to glide up or down from the pitch of the previously played note."
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...I can imagine DSI staff sitting there, laughing at all this guessing about ;D
It's probably the only joy they get in life, so happy to help. Here we go...
Actually, a joint venture isn't too unlikely. Tom Oberheim helped out already on the state variable filter of the Pro 2. And in a recent Q+A session Dave mentioned that the next product would be a surprise.
We're assuming that this is a picture from a part of the new product. Maybe it's not. We know (esp. from the Tempest) that DSI likes a bit of wordplay in their pre-announcement clues. "Portamento" is a near-homophone for "portmanteau," which refers to a word that arises from combining two previously-existing words (e.g., paratrooper and... um... fleshlight). So the new instrument could be a hybrid of some type, either architecturally, or as a joint or cooperative venture.
To take this ridiculousness ever further, a portmanteau was also a suitcase with two large compartments. So perhaps an instrument built into its own case (think ARP 2600).
I think DSI should give a prize to the person that comes the closest to guessing the new instrument. It could be a yearly sport here.
I was raised on synthesizers that used the exotic term "Portamento." It's the norm for me, and I always found the term "Glide" to be a bit banal.
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"Glissando" is what makes notes glide, but in notation language. The effect is of course the same.
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IIRC, 'portamento' was intended to be a smooth ramp from pitch to pitch on other instruments; 'glide' was (or could be) a discrete transition from pitch to pitch (think the intro to Loverboy's "Turn Me Loose", which may have been on a P5).
The proper term for that should be "Glissando," which some synthesizers do have.
Well, the official DSI explanation has always been this: "Glide or portamento causes the pitch of a note to glide up or down from the pitch of the previously played note."
According to use, "Portamento" means a perfectly smooth transition from one note to the next, whereas, "Glissando" means a stepwise change, as when you play a chromatic scale.
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This is how The New Harvard Dictionary of Music defines Glissando:
"A continuous or sliding movement from one pitch to another."
But it then describes how one makes a glissando on a piano, which obviously would produce a succession of pitches, rather than a true glide. However, a glissando on a violin would produce a synthesizer-like portamento. I think the solution here (since the synthesizer is such a unique instrument) is to use "Portamento" to refer to the perfectly smooth slide, and "Glissando' to refer to the stepped slide.
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On the DX7 you have the choice between portamento and glissando which provide the appropriate respective pitch transitions. Nothing ambiguous about it. One's smooth, the other discrete.
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Excellent. And that makes sense, since Yamaha has a long heritage of producing traditional musical instruments. Hence, they take their music theory seriously.
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Excellent. And that makes sense, since Yamaha has a long heritage of producing traditional musical instruments. Hence, they take their music theory seriously.
And this really shows in the admittedly very complex implementation of the DX7 and it's excellent manual. Designed from the ground up to be as good an emulation of traditional instruments as possible while giving the programmer and player as many options of articulation as possible. I have nothing but respect for that instrument.
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Well, yeah, strictly speaking I should have said the effect is the same on instruments that allow for bending in order to alter the pitch. Since glissando can be applied to a consecutive number of notes, you'll of course hear the single notes on a traditional keyboard instrument.
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… and now for something completely different…
Pic 1 shows the font in the teaser, pic 2 the font of the Prophet-6, and pic 3 the font of an OB-Xa. The correspondances become obvious when you look at the letter 'E'. This is not the latest font that was used on a Sequential instrument.
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Interestingly, ARP, Korg, and Oberheim have used the term "Portamento," while Sequential Circuits and Moog have used "Glide." That this parameter should be chosen as our NAMM hint might suggest some sort of change. And I can hear the DSI staffers laughing at us.
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Rather, the font type corresponds with the one that was used on the Prophet 12 and Pro2, which in turn is very similar to the one used on Oberheim synths. Look at the rounded 'F' and 'L' for example.
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Well, it seems you guys did crack the riddle! It's obviously the same typeface as the Oberheim synth.
Can't wait to see what will spring from this alliance!
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Anyway, I think its fair to say its yet another jewel!
Its not that I am losing interest in DSI/Sequential. But honestly I wish they would remember their roots in compact powerful affordable low voice count desktop modules and actually make such goodies again.
. o O ( generative speculations )
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Anyway, I think its fair to say its yet another jewel!
Its not that I am losing interest in DSI/Sequential. But honestly I wish they would remember their roots in compact powerful affordable low voice count desktop modules and actually make such goodies again.
. o O ( generative speculations )
Just like Apple should remember its hobbyist computer kit roots? By this point I wouldn't bet much on it.
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Anyway, I think its fair to say its yet another jewel!
Its not that I am losing interest in DSI/Sequential. But honestly I wish they would remember their roots in compact powerful affordable low voice count desktop modules and actually make such goodies again.
. o O ( generative speculations )
Hmmm, but remember that Dave also said that there are going to be a couple of releases, so I wouldn't give up on that yet. I could see, however, that there might be less affordable products in the future compared to what has been around in the past. With all the things Korg is currently doing, it's probably hard for DSI/Sequential to compete. They might say to themselves that they should stick to the higher end pro market entirely then. Not sure, but it could be plausible. Yet, I wouldn't rule anything out at this point.
Also: Developing too many pieces for the mass market instead of focussing on the development of new flagship products was one of the reasons that made Sequential go out of business. "Mass market" is of course a euphemism, since the analog and whatsoever market is clearly a niche.
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Now let's see, I want a Rickenbacker guitar, a Prophet 6 with 61 keys, a Prophet 11 (Prophet 6 with double keyboard) and an IOS Prophet 6 app for 10 bucks. ;-)
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They might say to themselves that they should stick to the higher end pro market entirely then.
The trouble is that they lose a lot of potential customers by going all in on jewels so its a risky route to go. Better continue the current jewel line supplemented here and there by making more affordable low voice count desktop modules using goodies initially developed for their flagship line. That would allow more customers to use modern day DSI/Sequential products while letting Dave continuing his flagship desires most of the time.
Anyway, DSI didn't pass their affordability exam at this NAMM either.
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They might say to themselves that they should stick to the higher end pro market entirely then.
The trouble is that they lose a lot of potential customers by going all in on jewels so its a risky route to go. Better continue the current jewel line supplemented here and there by making more affordable low voice count desktop modules using goodies initially developed for their flagship line. That would allow more customers to use modern day DSI/Sequential products while letting Dave continuing his flagship desires most of the time.
Anyway, DSI didn't pass their affordability exam at this NAMM either.
I'm pretty sure they know the risks and benefits of their choices much better than we ever could through our guesswork. Perhaps one flagship instrument brings in as much profit as 10 "affordable" ones? There sure are very good reasons DSI's business is the way it is.
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They might say to themselves that they should stick to the higher end pro market entirely then.
The trouble is that they lose a lot of potential customers by going all in on jewels so its a risky route to go. Better continue the current jewel line supplemented here and there by making more affordable low voice count desktop modules using goodies initially developed for their flagship line. That would allow more customers to use modern day DSI/Sequential products while letting Dave continuing his flagship desires most of the time.
I agree. It might not pay off with regard to the sheer analog market anymore, though. To be honest and without knowing how representative that is, a lot of people I know that are into hardware synths have owned a Mopho or Tetra at best. So that might proof your assumption right. However, barely anybody seems to know the Evolver, which kind of tells me that people are more attracted to pure analog stuff. The reputation of DSI is okay in the lower cost segment, but it's not the first company most people are looking towards when it comes to affordable analog gear. That has been mostly Korg, or in the shape of VAs, Roland in the past, and both companies have more capacities to produce at a lower price.
Anyway, DSI didn't pass their affordability exam at this NAMM either.
We don't really know that yet. Even if it's a joint venture of DSI and Oberheim, that doesn't mean it has to be super expensive. And as I said above, Dave recently hinted at more than just one new product.
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Plus: I know quite a few people that make a decent income, but still go mental about the minilogue, the Korg Odyssey, or the Arturia Beatstep Pro, but not about something like the Prophet-6, which to date seems to be the best selling instrument Dave has ever released. So there must be a market for that. It's just not the folks you run into on a daily basis.
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However, barely anybody seems to know the Evolver, which kind of tells me that people are more attracted to pure analog stuff.
Or just that the Evolver happened before DSI became really well known? Also the analog punch of the Evolver is different compared to Mopho/Tetra because of differences in the hardware implementation. I could easily see the potential of a pure analog signal path and complex modulations supplemented with digital oscillators/feedback/delays for added sonic potential.
Also I don't really want DSI to make more monophonic modules. Rather make two or four voice modules with plenty of expressive power packed into an attractive package. That would make much more sense given how the marked is evolving these years with plenty of other low cost options. So we are at least in the $600 to $800 range.
I'm pretty sure they know the risks and benefits of their choices much better than we ever could through our guesswork. Perhaps one flagship instrument brings in as much profit as 10 "affordable" ones? There sure are very good reasons DSI's business is the way it is.
Possibly, but honestly and as harsh as it may sound I don't really care for DSIs nor Sequentials business models. I care for products that interests me and that I have a chance of affording some day.
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However, barely anybody seems to know the Evolver, which kind of tells me that people are more attracted to pure analog stuff.
Or just that the Evolver happened before DSI became really well known? Also the analog punch of the Evolver is different compared to Mopho/Tetra because of differences in the hardware implementation. I could easily see the potential of a pure analog signal path and complex modulations supplemented with digital oscillators/feedback/delays for added sonic potential.
I think these thoughts are already too complicated. Most people don't even care about complex modulation options in terms of quantity. I once brought my Pro 2 to a synth meeting and maybe 3 out of 20 people cared because it must have appeared too intimidating. On the contrary, people like the immediacy of something like the MiniBrute, the Odyssey, or a Sub Phatty. Someone also brought a Prophet 12 module once. It was hardly touched by anybody either. Next to it stood a Eurorack system. That's where most people went.
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I don't think an instrument maker has to represent all price points in their lineup. If you want a dreadnought acoustic guitar that says "Taylor" on it, you're starting at $1500US. If you want a Schilke trumpet, you're starting near $3000US. A really good synthesizer is usually reasonably-priced compared to other high-end instruments. I don't care if they ever produce another $400 tabletop synth, but I wouldn't mind seeing them start at $1500 for a monosynth keyboard.
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DSLSynth, don't give up on DSI. They're a company going through some changes, for certain, but I don't think they've completely turned their back on their recent past. I would expect something small-ish and less expensive at some point, probably a replacement for the Mopho Module. With all the brains now stalking the DSI offices, I'd say the ideas are bigger and more complex than ever. Hence, the tendency towards "jewels." But I doubt it will continue to be exclusively jewels.
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DSLSynth, don't give up on DSI. They're a company going through some changes, for certain, but I don't think they've completely turned their back on their recent past. I would expect something small-ish and less expensive at some point, probably a replacement for the Mopho Module. With all the brains now stalking the DSI offices, I'd say the ideas are bigger and more complex than ever. Hence, the tendency towards "jewels." But I doubt it will continue to be exclusively jewels.
I doubt that too. And keep in mind that a possible collaboration with Tom Oberheim doesn't necessarily have to mean that there is going to be another product for $3,000. Even if that would be the case I couldn't see them giving up on more affordable gear. Maybe, though, the brand Sequential will become to DSI what the Custom Shop is to Fender.
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On the topic of Tom Oberheim, and possibly related to this collaboration theory, a while back Tom mentioned in a talk he gave on the Two-Voice Pro that he would soon be coming out with a large polyphonic synthesizer. That would have been either last summer or the previous one. Obviously it never happened. Perhaps this has become a collaboration with Dave. And that would make for a very unexpected type of instrument, just as Dave most recently mentioned.
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That's what I was thinking too, yes. It seems to be more and more likely.
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Found it! Here's the video:
https://youtu.be/6zIAeSeDVQg?t=29m47s
Another piece of the puzzle?
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That could have also been the modules from last year, right?
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Oh, the modular units? I doubt it. He seemed to be referring to a large polyphonic instrument - something bigger than the old Oberheim synthesizers.
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Oh, the modular units? I doubt it. He seemed to be referring to a large polyphonic instrument - bigger than the old Oberheim synthesizers.
Hmmm, I interpreted the "bigger" as a hint at modular systems, but of course I could be wrong. He just seemed to be so definite about the Curtis chips, that's all.
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Yeah, you could be right. It just didn't sound like a bit-by-bit type instrument, but more like an OB-X.
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Yeah, you could be right. It just didn't sound like a bit-by-bit type instrument, but more like a OBX.
Yeah, you might be onto something here. The OB-X is pre-CEM, so no Curts chips needed. Basically, it seems like I posted the wrong pic all the time. It should rather be something like this:
(http://www.siliconbreakdown.com/AANewImages/OBxBig3.jpg)
Or this:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/02/Oberheim_OB-1.jpg)
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However, barely anybody seems to know the Evolver, which kind of tells me that people are more attracted to pure analog stuff.
...
I think these thoughts are already too complicated. Most people don't even care about complex modulation options in terms of quantity. I once brought my Pro 2 to a synth meeting and maybe 3 out of 20 people cared because it must have appeared too intimidating. On the contrary, people like the immediacy of something like the MiniBrute, the Odyssey, or a Sub Phatty. Someone also brought a Prophet 12 module once. It was hardly touched by anybody either. Next to it stood a Eurorack system. That's where most people went.
I have to whole heartedly agree with this, this is the main reason the Nord Modulars did not sell well. Absolutely amazing synths but far too complex for the average synth player, actually the majority of synth players!
The eurorack stuff is interesting as it seems to be spreading from it's roots of people interested in synthesis to a wider audience. The P12/Eurorack example you gave is interesting as the little P12 module sitting there was also really a modular system most likely with many more modules than the eurorack sitting next to it!
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This just leaked... it was a coorporation between Haba and Dave Smith Instruments, a Lotus Flute named "Portamento".
Cheer up DSLSynth! ... finaly something in the lower market price range! ;D
Specs:
Monophonic
Compact
Wooden ends
1 analog oscillator with a wide pitch range
1 modulation unit (routable to pitch... audio rate modulation capable, if you're fast!)
Built in Breath Controller
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So Tom is up to something: the Marion Systems Tom Oberheim SEM Plus. Note the four-parameter envelopes - a huge improvement over three. This could be a superb supplement to a partly digital instrument like a Pro 2.
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So Tom is up to something: the Marion Systems Tom Oberheim SEM Plus. Note the four-parameter envelopes - a huge improvement over three. This could be a superb supplement to a partly digital instrument like a Pro 2.
Yes. It also has added triangle waveforms to the oscillators, you can mix the osc waveforms, noise, the LFO is remade to multi-waveform, more modulation options overall, all changes over the original design. :)
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Very useful changes as well.
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Tom's SEM and SEM Plus have such great potential, and yet his Two-Voice Pro is far beyond what most of us can afford. He should take one of these new modules, add a 3-4 octave keyboard, and give us a mono synth for about $1400, something like an OB1. Oberheim has such a great sound, but it's wasting away.
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I'm curious to know if DSI have now abandoned the low cost market (i.e. MoPho/Tetra, etc). The Prophet 12, Pro-2 and Prophet-6 have all been high end products compared to some of their other offerings. Not even sure what I'd like to see either, I guess some people are putting their money on a Prophet-1 at some point.
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Also I hope that DSI will not make any more monophonic instruments. You may ask: Why!? Well the front panel have a significant cost in itself and by having more voices the instrument gets a better price/performance rating. So my suggestion is that they make a duophonic instead of a monophonic instrument complete with layers and stack/split modes as this allows for stereo panned sounds as well as the usual stack/split use cases.
That would be an excellent idea, and it would offer an alternative to the very expensive Oberheim Two-Voice Pro.
Yeah, I've been lusting after one of those, but might be tempted to pick up a single SEM Pro if there's something desirable at NAMM from DSI that would sway my cash a different direction....
I may be different from others here in that I'm not terribly keen on what I've seen in built-in sequencers; I feel that these ought to latch along the lines of a phrase sampler, or the old Notator / Creator approach. I also prefer built-in pitch and delay effects (not necessarily reverb, though sometimes it's a nice spectral feature), and a good keybed - things that make the occasional live gig super easy, so that one can get lost in the music.
If I had the money, or for the right deal, I'd jump on a Pro-2 or Prophet-6 in a heartbeat; I think that these have the filter sound that I love and are complete instruments.
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I may be different from others here in that I'm not terribly keen on what I've seen in built-in sequencers.
Somewhat along those lines, I wish the onboard sequencers would be removed and offered as add-on devices. It's one way of being able to offer feature-rich synthesizers at a reasonable cost.
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I wish the onboard sequencers would be removed and offered as add-on devices. It's one way of being able to offer feature-rich synthesizers at a reasonable cost.
That's crazy talk! The sequencer is DSI's killer app, and blows the doors of modulation wide open. And it's pretty much a software thing that isn't going to add to the hardware cost of each instrument.
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I wish the onboard sequencers would be removed and offered as add-on devices. It's one way of being able to offer feature-rich synthesizers at a reasonable cost.
That's crazy talk! The sequencer is DSI's killer app, and blows the doors of modulation wide open. And it's pretty much a software thing that isn't going to add to the hardware cost of each instrument.
I'll have to agree on this one... Removing internal sequencers will be a huge step backwards, and I remember how many users that actually complained that no sequencers are in the Prophet 12... I still would really like sequencers in it.
Personally I find them useful because of the way I work these days... earlier I just sequenced from my DAW, but more and more I'm live recording into my DAW without metronome, and that makes it really nice to have sequencers build into a synth because it lets you have tight timing (usually much better than a DAW anyway).
When I make ambient, I usually start out by playing some live drones/pads, that last for some time, and then some rhythmic synthy part or bass start going and taking over for a long period of time, and here is where the internal sequencer or Arpeggiator is nice to have... it lays the foundation "metronome" for the tracks to follow.
Also... small rhythmic presets are nice to have for this task, and that it can be saved as part of a preset. This is one of the major reasons I still have my PER... simply because it can do some of the most weird rhythmic sequences... the Prophet 12 simply cannot cut it.
I understand that it is making an instrument a bit more expensive, especially if it has dedicated controls for the sequencer like the Pro 2, but it could be minimized to being internal only, if for a cheaper product... The Tetra was like that, and even the Prophet 08 is in a way, since it doubles a lot of knobs for the sequencer.
I know for certain, that I'm REALLY happy about the Sub 37's internal sequencer too... so I vote for internal sequencers too! :D
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I wish the onboard sequencers would be removed and offered as add-on devices. It's one way of being able to offer feature-rich synthesizers at a reasonable cost.
That's crazy talk! The sequencer is DSI's killer app, and blows the doors of modulation wide open. And it's pretty much a software thing that isn't going to add to the hardware cost of each instrument.
No, it's not crazy talk to want a simple stripped-down inexpensive synthesizer designed to be played entirely with the keyboard. I realize a sequencer offers certain performance advantages, but jeepers, are there not enough of them already available? Sequencers require parameters and panel space, so it's not merely a matter of software. It would be refreshing to have a spacious control panel with larger knobs and features dedicated entirely to sound design. I'd be happy even to forgo an arpeggiator. You see, this is why I do like older instruments, and why this preference has nothing to do with nostalgia.
Consider the Oberheim Two-Voice Pro. Its control panel is two thirds sequencer. Without the sequencer, how many hundreds of dollars would be knocked off its exorbitant $3,500 price tag, making an excellent instrument finally attainable to musicians of more modest means?
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I'll have to agree on this one... Removing internal sequencers will be a huge step backwards, and I remember how many users that actually complained that no sequencers are in the Prophet 12... I still would really like sequencers in it.
That's only reasonable. If you pay $3,000 for the big one, you should expect to get a sequencer and all else. But I'm not talking about an instrument that's anything like the Prophet 12, nor am I including all synthesizers. I'm talking only about some synthesizers, especially a medium-sized mono synth. With sequencers available on so many instruments, I think we can afford to have one or two without them.
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Well... with clever thinking, you could create a nice sequencer on any synth, without taking away one third of the space... take a look at the Sub37 for example... it basicaly has no space assigned for the sequencer, but still it's there, and pretty good actualy... you have 16 buttons at the bottom, and that's about it... they also double as very useful preset selection buttons foremost.
Even if you wanted a dedicated area for a sequencer, it could be done without much space needed, or even controls... it's because some people want a knob for every god damned step and even more... you could make it with a simple seven segment display, that show you the current step, maybe one or two knobs in addition to change values and a couple of buttons to start/stop recording/playback.... done... if the synth has a dedicated display, even this could be used for it, like it is also being used for this on Sub 37... yes... it will be a bit more fiddly, I know, but I'd rather have that, than no sequencer at all :)
But I can see the point in omitting it, on not so expensive synths... especially if it keeps the price down...
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it's because some people want a knob for every god damned step and even more...
Which is what we have on our Prophet '08s without taking up any space!
And the sequencer as it is implemented in DSI synthesizers is in no way replaceable with any external ones, since it ties directly into the modulation matrix. It could be done with a complex MIDI setup, yes, but I see no reason to leave something out that so many people do like quite a lot and has little to no impact on those who don't use it.
Somehow I think a monosynth benefits even more from a sequencer than a polysynth on which you usually play chords. Anyway, I think they're here to stay for DSI/Sequential.
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Just a little while ago…
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DSLSynth, don't give up on DSI.
I wouldn't say that I have completely given up on DSI but it certainly feels like its heading in that direction. I mean, I really like the flagship machines they make with all these new voice architecture goodies. Would just love to have a more affordable slice of it with plenty of modulation options and a good sequencer.
Most people don't even care about complex modulation options in terms of quantity.
Good old looks versus contents discussion! Agree that people goes wow on Heinz compatible eurorack setups but there are more to synthesizers than front panel looks.
Yes, a complex voice is a specialist tool and yet both Evolver desktop, Mopho module and Tetra all sold pretty well. Its all about making a new take on such modules containing some of the voice architecture progress DSI have made over the years such as higher CV calculation frequencies and better oscillators/filters. Two or four complex voices in a module would be just perfect. Monophonic modules lives in an overcrowded market.
Its not that I mind DSI have turned into a jewel factory. In fact I am pretty sure we all love their new great machines that steals the NAMM shows year after year. Its just that there are other configurations that are manageable to make for DSI and that an entirely different range of customers are hoping for. Not everyone can afford jewels!
. o O ( what else is new )
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Some times you have to look around real hard to find some old jewels to sell before you can afford new jewels.
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Some times you have to look around real hard to find some old jewels to sell before you can afford new jewels.
I am not into jewels at all! . o O ( ;) )
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Ha ha! You know what I mean - some electronic devices or instruments that you can do without.
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No, it's not crazy talk to want a simple stripped-down inexpensive synthesizer designed to be played entirely with the keyboard. I realize a sequencer offers certain performance advantages, but jeepers, are there not enough of them already available?
If you're talking about performance sequencers, then I totally agree with that. For sequencers that record and play back bits of music, you're typically better off with something big and monolithic that controls everything. That's what I use Finale for. It's not a sequencer, technically, but I prefer using notation for everything, and I can print music onto dead tree and file it away in case of robot apocalypse.
But who'd want to give up the DSI-style modulation sequencer on the Evolver? It's twice as fun as LFOs and eight times as fun with LFOs.
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Agreed. In DSI's philosophy, the sequencer is not to be confused with a MIDI sequencer that primarily organizes the playback of notes. It's first and foremost a modulation source and as such almost as indispensable as LFOs.
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Exactly a very useful modulation source. The advantages of having per step timbre and note length (envelope or trigger select). Not to mention having the sequencer running without affecting the envelopes and that possibly with slew between the step values. The full potential of Evolver and Pro 2 sequencers. More of that, please! In fact at least on paper the Pro 2 sequencer is that step above the Evolver sequencer that many of us have dreamed about.
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Looks like they are still working on the presentation!
(http://41.media.tumblr.com/1374254adcd478b10b8382800e4f9bfe/tumblr_o19l4i11ls1v4a2fro1_1280.jpg)
(via sonicstate press preview day live blog)
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Oh boy, I'd like to hang around there this evening! Who can wait for the morning?
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Nice to see the new Touché controller hooked up to a Pro 2. I'm quite curious about it.
(http://41.media.tumblr.com/40bb4b5b1f564d2efffcc5ba10833098/tumblr_o19r18rHot1v4a2fro1_1280.jpg)
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I am pretty sure DSI will wait until 9am tomorrow to reveal their new instrument much like they did last year. So I can wait. Would be nice to stop by Tom Oberheim for a little synthesizer and aerospace talking no to mention asking if he is aware of the Skylon (https://youtu.be/86X3gkLjC9Y) project.
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Well, I could peak in their van while their eating dinner....
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Awww (slightly unrelated, but who really knows?)…
(http://40.media.tumblr.com/b006c5102ca5060df10facd794e07d77/tumblr_o19pwyJnfB1v4a2fro1_1280.jpg)
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;) . o O ( lovely make noise girl )
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I wonder if your gal from 2014 will be doing any demos this year? What was that gadget she had? Oh, who cares.
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Pretty sure she is. Working for IK Multimedia. And yeah, attention management (https://youtu.be/I5nIDOrBZXI) can be a difficult discipline. She is very cute (https://youtu.be/VnF78TjKc5c?t=14s) and charming indeed. But no she is not mine. Unfortunately!
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I showed that demo to my wife. She rolled her eyes and said to me, "Move along".
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I showed that demo to my wife. She rolled her eyes and said to me, "Move along".
Haha!
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It's the camera zoom at 16 seconds that drifts at first to the right of her hands that's curious. Guess the cameraman stumbled.
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Hehe! What else is new? Its a delicate topic! And we all know what das wifies means about that topic. T+15 seconds: LOL! In any case I don't really see the usefulness of two faders controlled by one hand each. Such a product need more degrees of freedom to really make a difference on the control front. Now with both hands free... ^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H
Speaking of multiple degrees of freedom perhaps its about time to inflict a term for the traditional synthesizer interface: black and white dinosaur. And no, its not to talk down in any way about keyboard players. So much great music have been made with keyboards and that will continue way into the future. Its just my usual hint towards not having the sufficient features in a synthesizers MIDI implementation to support the new controllers with per note expressiveness that become more and more common these years.
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Both we dinosaurs and you mammals can live together just fine.
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Yeah no point in messing it up with too much cattle output. Keyboards plays such a huge and important role (https://youtu.be/Yq3Nvq4xUU4?t=1m10s) as synthesizer interfaces. My comment above is only directed at the capabilities of most analog synthesizers MIDI implementation. I cannot imagine a synthesizer future without keyboard support. I can easily see the need for supporting the new controllers way better than they currently are. Hence my black and white dinosaur rant. Which leads to me wondering if multi-timbral support will be standard in future DSI/Sequential products or if they will continue their current single channel style.
PS: Anyone decided what they will cook for gearmas dinner? Or will it just be virtual snacks in front of the computer?
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The latter might depend on whether split and layer are going to be options.
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So I guess we won't see any further teasers before the big day…
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The Oberheim question definitely interests me. I think the DSI and Oberheim sounds combine very harmoniously, so I'm looking towards Tom these days.
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Yeah, that would be cool. Well, if tomorrow's trailer features two men in the beginning everything's clear.
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Paul, wouldn't you agree that a Pro 2 controlling a SEM would make a fabulous combination?
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That would certainly be a great combination, although the Pro 2 already takes you halfway there due to its second filter.
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The latter might depend on whether split and layer are going to be options.
By mono-timbral I mean not having one MIDI channel per note support. Obviously DSI style Prophet voices got stack/split features but they are rarely multi-timbral. Basically only their monophonic instrument and Tetra can be used with 3D controllers. The Poly Evolvers can be multi-timbral to some degree but there is no support for editing all parameters of each voice simultaneously so its limited in its feature set.
By "black and white dinosaur" I simply mean a synthesizer incapable of being played with full expressiveness from 3D controllers such as LinnStrument.
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Eastern time zone. I wake up at 0630 and my first thought is "new synths!" But Anaheim is three hours behind. It'll be almost lunchtime here before they announce anything there. Sigh.
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Its around 6 PM here before gearmas starts. So be happy you live in a timezone closer to where it happens! ;)
Anyway, another flagship is about to be announced and my hope is that its a Tom Oberheim collaboration using his discrete electronics SEM like designs as basis for a polyphonic instrument. Would surely rock! Or will we see a Curtis chip based instrument with new oscillators and Oberheim style voice features? Simple or complex voices?
Wonder if they would play Jump in the intro video given how many times it will be played at their booth during gearmas?
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Two Legends. One Instrument.
The OB-6 is a once-in-a-lifetime collaboration between two of the most influential synth designers in history — Dave Smith and Tom Oberheim. It’s an all-analog, 6-voice poly synth with voltage-controlled oscillators, a state-variable filter, and voltage-controlled amplifiers, inspired by Tom’s original SEM design — the bedrock of his legendary 4-voice and 8-voice synthesizers.
Manufactured and sold by Dave Smith Instruments, the OB-6 features six discrete analog voices with two oscillators (plus sub oscillator) per voice, continuously variable waveshapes with triangle, sawtooth, and variable-width pulse waves, X-mod with 2 sources and 5 destination, a 64-step polyphonic step sequencer, dual digital effects that include faithful recreations of Tom’s acclaimed phase shifter and ring modulator, a full-featured arpeggiator, and a powerful, in-your-face, sonic signature like no other instrument.
This analog powerhouse is packed into a four-octave, semi-weighted keyboard with velocity and channel aftertouch, making it perfect for stage or studio.
Source: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/keyboards-midi/dave-smith-instruments-ob-6-6-voice-analog-synthesizer
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Ups, that was an early leak! Hehe! Nice guessing by the forum members! Sounds perfect with the SEM electronics as base. Wonder if it will be marked as a Sequential or DSI product? I hope it will be Sequential!
Two pole state variable filter assumed. Not a bad idea! Looks like the core is build on the technical soul of Prophet-6.
So the travel Dave returned from was most likely that Sweetwater event some time ago (ref pyramind talk).
Thanks a lot for the reference, eXode!
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Beautiful. Will it look more like an Oberheim or a DSI? I can't wait to see it. In spite of the identical price, I suppose the Prophet 12 will still remain the flagship.
Thanks for being on the ball, Exode, while the rest of us slept.
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Beautiful. Will it look more like an Oberheim or a DSI? I can't wait to see it. In spite of the identical price, I suppose the Prophet 12 will still remain the flagship.
Thanks for being on the ball, Exode, while the rest of us slept.
It's nothing, It's almost 3 PM here across the pond. ;)
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I got mixed feelings about this... to me it sounds a bit like a P6, just with SEM filters... this will NOT be inexpensive for sure... and does anyone know if it will have full MIDI specs and preset memory?...
It could be interresting, but right now I'm thinking "pass"...
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@Razmo: Most likely with full MIDI specs just like the Prophet-6. Will see how DSI reacts to my tooling suggestion but I am sure there will be a full MIDI spec.
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Musician's Friend lists it for $3,000. Yes, the big question is, how will this significantly differ from a Prophet 6? After all, it is a DSI product, rather than an Oberheim.
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Reading the link, the oscillator specs sounds very much like the P6 oscillators... I'll bet it's the exact same voiceboards, which has nothing to do with Oberheim... then the filters are SEM style, which is probably the same curcuit Dave used for the Pro2.... and then digital FX with Oberheim emulation FX...
Is it just me, or does this sound like a Prophet 6, where just the filters has been swapped out, and a few changes to the FX has been added?
I must say... I'm not getting one... I also dissed the P6 recently, simply because I want the most flexible engine, and that still belongs to the P08 in my opinion.... but it'll probably sound amazing, I do not doubt that... it's just not for me :) ... I hope DSI have other news to present than this, otherwize NAMM has been rather disappointing until now (for me at least).... but hey!... I'll save a lot of money then! :D
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Also... search the net for "Arturia MatrixBrute ;)
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Also... search the net for "Arturia MatrixBrute ;)
Or just look in the other thread on this site... ;)
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Also... search the net for "Arturia MatrixBrute ;)
Or just look in the other thread on this site... ;)
Yeah... word spreads FAST today :D ... I sort of guessed I was too late allready ha ha!
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I must say... I'm not getting one...
Just do what I do all the time whenever DSI launches a new product: admire the well sounding ingredients and keep wishing for a more expressive voice combing the sonic impact of the Prophet-6 and OB-6 oscillators/filters with a complex voice architecture features from Pro 2 and Prophet 12. Depending on how the cake ingredients are mixed at DSI with just a little bit of common sense such a voice are going to happen one day. Essentially DSI/Sequential gotta progress from sound or features to a sound and features kind of voice.
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Not sure what to think of this. I guess I keep waiting for the official announcement.
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Not sure what to think of this. I guess I keep waiting for the official announcement.
I think its a great idea. Helps Tom Oberheim bring a polyphonic instrument to the market with all of the experience that DSI have developed over the years including a well working hardware and instrument support channel. Plus that Tom Oberheim did not have to reinvent polyphonic instrument digital control before he could bring his machine to the market. That is great for everyone involved!
As for those that bought a Prophet-6 right before NAMM I am sure the analysis will be that one want both instruments. After all that is how Dave plan things.
Hope DSI manages to send Tom Oberheim a good check for this collaboration as life in the US are not exactly getting cheaper as people age.
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The OB-6 is a once-in-a-lifetime collaboration between two of the most influential synth designers in history — Dave Smith and Tom Oberheim.
Once-in-a-lifetime? They've already collaborated several times during my lifetime. That's marketing for ya.
It's potentially a great instrument, but I'll be a bit disappointed if it's all they've cooked up this time around, seeming so close in many ways to the Prophet 6.
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Hopefully it's maturity that has us pause, rather then jump like giddy children, at the announcement of a new instrument. I ask myself one question over and over: Sure, it's new. So what. How will this new instrument help me to produce music better than the instruments I already have or that are already available?
Perhaps the new one will be better than the Prophet 6. I hope it is. But still....
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Perhaps the new one will be better than the Prophet 6.
Its probably a variation of Prophet-6 with new Oberheim style circuits so it will look kind of the same but sound different. Its probably a two pole filter which is not possible with the Prophet-6. So for only $5800 one can get both two and four pole filters! ;)
Eagerly looking forward to see the presentation video.
Wondering if my reaction to the instrument would be different if I did not had that spoiler beforehand?
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I must say... I'm not getting one...
Just do what I do all the time whenever DSI launches a new product: admire the well sounding ingredients and keep wishing for a more expressive voice combing the sonic impact of the Prophet-6 and OB-6 oscillators/filters with a complex voice architecture features from Pro 2 and Prophet 12. Depending on how the cake ingredients are mixed at DSI with just a little bit of common sense such a voice are going to happen one day. Essentially DSI/Sequential gotta progress from sound or features to a sound and features kind of voice.
To be honest, what I'm waiting for is some kind of sampler oscillator with analog filters.... still... I have minimized my setup so drasticaly now, that I'm only going for stuff that can actualy add something new to my synthesis options... not just some new filter, or new oscillator curcuit etc.
I have space for four stereo synths, and four mono synths.... that's it... I've sold my V-Synth GT, and are also selling my VL70-m ... why? ... I have to realize, that digital does not interest me at all... they sound nice, but they do not kick my sound design genes...
So now I've got PER, P08 and P12, and are looking for ONE more stereo synth with preferably sample oscillators, and polyphony... I know it's going to come someday, it's just a matter of time.
The mono's are my Sub37, and yes... you were right... I'm getting the two Jomox drumsynths again to take care of percussion needs. That leaves yet another mono, and then I'm done...
That mono will most likely be a modular setup... that way I can build upon it with new modules, and I've got Waldorf's wavetable one in mind, and maybe also a sample oriented oscillator... seems to be some nice ones out there.
So... a new OB-6 will deliver nothing specificly new for my usage... Neither will Minilogue.
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::) . o O ( GAO )
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::) . o O ( GAO )
Yeah yeah... I know... ;D
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http://www.davesmithinstruments.com/2016/01/ob-6-announced/
http://www.davesmithinstruments.com/product/ob-6/
https://youtu.be/DTbJpVlRI_o
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It's between the Prophet 6 and the OB-6. I'm starting to like this instrument. I'm glad to see a full ADSR generator. The filter sounds great. But there's still only one LFO, plus a low frequency second oscillator mode.
Now when does the module version come out?
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Jesus... that intro video... I hate jazz! :o
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Well.... yet another "Jewel" at a pretty high price tag... I hope there will be other news from DSI at NAMM but this one :)
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Indeed Yet Another Jewel (TM). I think I will forgive Dave for it this time though!
INHALT demo: https://youtu.be/RFndmSO7OFo
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And this also:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bdnh0C3UpRQ
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Can't watch anything right now. Will save that for the lunch break.
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I'm beginning to think more and more, that we probably will not see lowpriced devices from DSI again... there has been too many "gems" comming out over the last period of time, and with KORG entering the low-budget marked with the Minilogue, it will be hard for DSI to compete on price I guess, so maybe Dave will focus on the high end gem marked... his force are in the engine depth (though the last two products have been not so much as they are performance oriented).
It seems like Dave wants to coop with his friends of the "round table"... so who's next? ... maybe the DSI Easel? ;D
Sure I'd like to have both Pro2, Prophet 6 and OB-6 ... who would not? ... but you have to draw the line somewhere, unless you are that 1% who owns as much as the 99% these days I guess...
Also, when I listen to Prophet 6 and OB-6 ... I would not say that P08 sounds worse... in fact P08 can sound very much like those two in general, but it still has the deepest engine, and thus the greatest sound design potential, so I'll not swap my P08 for any of them... that'll have to wait until the day comes, that Dave overdo the P08 in it's engine possibilities.
I'd say, that what I miss most from those DSI's I do not have, are that darn State Variable filter...
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The bodies of the two instruments are identical:
PHYSICAL SPECS
•32” L x 12.7” W x 4.6″ H (81.3 cm x 32.3 cm x 11.7 cm)
•20.0 lbs. (9.5 kg.)
•Walnut end panels and trim
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Can't watch anything right now. Will save that for the lunch break.
Not to worry! It sounds great and very SEM'ish. It easy to see its appeal! Had it been a complex voice I would have been completely sold on it. This one in module form would be just great to have anyway. Certainly a good idea!
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Interestingly, it says Tom Oberheim on the front and back, and Dave Smith Instruments only on the back. So it's a DSI, rather than a Sequential.
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I'm beginning to think more and more, that we probably will not see lowpriced devices from DSI again...
I am basically in the same place these days: Dave's Jewel Factory (TM). And yet several forum members were almost attacking me a few days ago when I made a similar statement about wishing more affordable DSI products in the future.
What I hope is to see innovation and radically new voice architectures being announced from DSI in the future with great sound and complex modulations together with more affordable slices of that sound available. Yeah its going to take some time for DSI to make that but honestly the customers view on the future appeal of a company's product does matter after all.
Short summary: DSI managed to fail its affordability exam this NAMM too but at least I am impressed with the sound and probably like it more than the Prophet-6 sound.
Interestingly, it says Tom Oberheim on the front and back, and Dave Smith Instruments only on the back. So it's a DSI, rather than a Sequential.
Yeah I noticed that too! Several possible explanations for that. One is the Dave and Tom collaboration project suits DSI better than Sequential. Plus that the Prophet-6 and OB-6 looks too similar if they were on the same brand.
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Via sonicstate live blog (http://www.sonicstate.com/news/2016/01/21/namm2016-live-blog-day-1-lets-do-it/):
(http://36.media.tumblr.com/288e8fc828d513cd14291674b36b23f1/tumblr_o1bc6o9rsl1v51thco1_1280.jpg)
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Somehow DSI and Tom Oberheim managed to announce their collaboration instrument on Squirrel Appreciation Day (https://twitter.com/YosemiteNPS/status/690233951785459712). Its good to know that OB-6 got a highpass filter and a fast sequencer to match that! ;)
Sonicstate have finally seen the OB-6 too:
http://www.sonicstate.com/news/2016/01/21/namm2016-tom-oberheim-and-dave-smith-introduce-the-ob-6/
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Nice trailer!
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Sounds tasty, so much I can tell.
Still, I wouldn't have expected an instrument that's that close to the P6 (in terms of size and probably price, and even appearance). Not in terms of sound, of course. I get that they're different and they seemed to have nailed that classic Oberheim sound.
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Well a OB-6 module could be tempting! My only complaint is that I may find the blue stripes making it harder to read the front panel labels. But of cause thats just me. Very nice instrument. Imagine that analog sound with the digital control power of Prophet-12 and Pro 2.
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I have to admit, the OB-6 does sound better to my ears than the Prophet 6. It sounds very rich; I really like it.
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Good to hear that from a pro! ;)
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I have to admit, the OB-6 does sound better to my ears than the Prophet 6. It sounds very rich; I really like it.
It sounds super lush, yeah. It's been made for you. ;)
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And maybe you, too, Paul? :o
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And maybe you, too, Paul? :o
Sigh…
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Sorry! I knew that comment was going to hurt. Ah well, it's only another $200.
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Sorry! I knew that comment was going to hurt.
I need some livers and mothers to sell.
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Sigh…
So you bought a Prophet-6 right before gearmas and now want the OB-6 instead?
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Correct me somebody: Basically, the OB6 is a P6 with a state variable filter instead of a lowpass and a highpass, right? Other differences include separate PWM and square wave subs. Anything else I overlooked?
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Sigh…
So you bought a Prophet-6 right before gearmas and now want to the OB-6 instead?
I didn't buy anything yet. I think I'll stick to the P6. I like what I've heard so far though. Very delicious. I guess the true answer is both, haha.
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Looks so!
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I hope that there will be a OB-6 Module available sooner rather than later (like with the Prophet-6).
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I hope that there will be a OB-6 Module available sooner rather than later (like with the Prophet-6).
Probably at the end of the year if the keyboard sells well.
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I like what I've heard so far though. Very delicious. I guess the true answer is both, haha.
Hehe! You are not the only one complaining about that problem of wanting both of them now. Very expectable reaction. Saw something similar in the INHALT demo comments as well.
However there is a cure for that! Imagine a four pole state-variable multi-mode filter with a resonance color parameter. That would cover both types of sounds and actually sweep between them in case of a complex modulation voice architecture. Have to happen one day!
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Oh, I have the solution: MIDI together the OB-6 Keyboard and the Prophet-6 Module. See, wasn't that simple?
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Oh, I have the solution: MIDI together the OB-6 Keyboard and the Prophet-6 Module. See, wasn't that simple?
That's cheating!
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We might as well move our discussion over to the new OB-6 sub forum.
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First Dave interview from this years NAMM show (via matrixsynth):
https://youtu.be/rF6AE2upf9w
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Has anybody heard news about Korg? Is the ARP 2600 rumor dead?
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Looks like it :(
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Correct me somebody: Basically, the OB6 is a P6 with a state variable filter instead of a lowpass and a highpass, right? Other differences include separate PWM and square wave subs. Anything else I overlooked?
Yeah... some digital Oberheim emulated FX like a phaser and also something about a ringmodulation something...
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Well, so no Sequential monosynth this time. Damn, I thought that was practically a lock.
My next move, I think, will be to start seriously looking at the Pro-2.
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Well, so no Sequential monosynth this time. Damn, I thought that was practically a lock.
Well same kind of experience as I have at most NAMM shows: Darn, not the kind of machine I was hoping for! Basically that is how DSI operates most of the time. Still they keep turning out new machines with interesting voice architecture as well as sound ingredients. Now its about time for them to wise up and make something for the rest of us! Probably not that its going to happen but who knows? ;)
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Well a OB-6 module could be tempting! My only complaint is that I may find the blue stripes making it harder to read the front panel labels. But of cause thats just me. Very nice instrument.
Totally agree. Of course, it's a modern take on the classic polyphonic Oberheim look, but it's just bad design from a legibility standpoint. It also looks too much like a P~6 aside from the knobs and blue stripes. I somehow imagined an all-white instrument like the Four-Voice, both to keep in line with all other current Oberheim synths and to contrast it further from DSI/Sequential's offerings.