The Official Sequential/Oberheim Forum
OTHER DISCUSSIONS => General Synthesis => Other Hardware/Software => Topic started by: LoboLives on March 10, 2017, 10:28:59 AM
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I've seen tutorial videos of people creating famous patches on the OB6 such as the Rush Tom Sawyer filter sweep but I haven't seen one for Van Halen's JUMP. I'm having trouble programming it on my Prophet 6 so I'm curious if anyone has any videos showing how to do it with either the OB6 or P6?
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Technically, the Prophet '08/REV2 would be the more appropriate instrument, as the song was recorded with an OB-Xa, which uses Curtis filters with 2- and 4-pole modes. It's not an SEM sound.
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Here's a tutorial for the OB-Xa: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUVZ9EcmYCA
Maybe that helps as a rough guideline.
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Here's a tutorial for the OB-Xa: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUVZ9EcmYCA
Maybe that helps as a rough guideline.
I tried that but I'm trying to get the "Hard version". Not sure if I need to turn up the Resonance or adjust the attack but I don't seem to be getting it.
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Here's a tutorial for the OB-Xa: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUVZ9EcmYCA
Maybe that helps as a rough guideline.
I tried that but I'm trying to get the "Hard version". Not sure if I need to turn up the Resonance or adjust the attack but I don't seem to be getting it.
The hard version? There's not much resonance in this patch (which is an understatement). It coud really be the different type of filters. Like I said the OB-Xa has Curtis filters, no SEM type filters.
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Here's a tutorial for the OB-Xa: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUVZ9EcmYCA
Maybe that helps as a rough guideline.
I tried that but I'm trying to get the "Hard version". Not sure if I need to turn up the Resonance or adjust the attack but I don't seem to be getting it.
The hard version? There's not much resonance in this patch (which is an understatement). It coud really be the different type of filters. Like I said the OB-Xa has Curtis filters, no SEM type filters.
I meant "Hard" as the video is titled "The Soft Version" which is probably why the video doesn't sound that close to the original...and it was using an OBXa so there's something I'm not doing properly.
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Here's a tutorial for the OB-Xa: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUVZ9EcmYCA
Maybe that helps as a rough guideline.
I tried that but I'm trying to get the "Hard version". Not sure if I need to turn up the Resonance or adjust the attack but I don't seem to be getting it.
The hard version? There's not much resonance in this patch (which is an understatement). It coud really be the different type of filters. Like I said the OB-Xa has Curtis filters, no SEM type filters.
I meant "Hard" as the video is titled "The Soft Version" which is probably why the video doesn't sound that close to the original...and it was using an OBXa so there's something I'm not doing properly.
Gotcha. Yeah, the soft attack of the filter envelope is not as audible on the original. The retrosynth version is closer to a soft synth brass sound. Sorry, I realized that too late.
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On the other hand: Have you tried to turn the resonance to the max?
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On the other hand: Have you tried to turn the resonance to the max?
Screams like a banshee.
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... as the song was recorded with an OB-Xa
According to synthtopia it was recorded on an OB-X:
http://www.synthtopia.com/content/2009/06/30/van-halen-jump-demo-oberheim-obx-a/
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... as the song was recorded with an OB-Xa
According to synthtopia it was recorded on an OB-X:
http://www.synthtopia.com/content/2009/06/30/van-halen-jump-demo-oberheim-obx-a/
It says OBXa. Plus it would have to be as that album also implements splits and layers that the OBXa was capable of not OBX
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It says OBXa. Plus it would have to be as that album also implements splits and layers that the OBXa was capable of not OBX
Added to the fact that preset A1 on an OBX-a is the Jump preset lol.
I 'think' the res sweeps and strings on the instrumental 1984 before Jump starts are factory presets too. I have an OB-8 so can't say for sure on this last point.
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It says OBXa. Plus it would have to be as that album also implements splits and layers that the OBXa was capable of not OBX
Added to the fact that preset A1 on an OBX-a is the Jump preset lol.
I 'think' the res sweeps and strings on the instrumental 1984 before Jump starts are factory presets too. I have an OB-8 so can't say for sure on this last point.
BOOM!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60qaA-cZahY
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I once slowed this song down in order to hear if there was a blip at the beginning of the note (gliding up or down); there was not. But one thing I noticed, when played very slowly, was that there is a very fast tremolo at the beginning of the notes, which doesn't seem to last when the note it held. I keep meaning to play around with this; I think something like it could be achieved with an LFO, especially with an extra EG like the '08 has. If anyone would easily know how to set this up, I'd appreciate it too.
While there may not be Resonance on the original, I think it helps me get the character better with the '08. I have it at 34 and the env amount at 61. I have the 4 pole filter at 59, but it could go higher. There was a preset for the sound, which I may have modified. One thing I changed was to set it up as a split; the lower notes of the beginning seem to have a more open filter than the upper notes. There is also a lot of detune between the oscillators; I have them at -8 and +8. Filter EG is 11A, 87D, 112S, 29R and the Amp EG is 4A, 127D, 127S, and 22R. In addition to reverb (delay?), I think there may be some distortion on it too.
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BUMP
for such a simple sound I can't seem to get anywhere close to reproducing a good sounding saw wave pad ...
Does anyone have any presets that can be shared for the van halen JUMP sound on prophet 6 ??
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BUMP
for such a simple sound I can't seem to get anywhere close to reproducing a good sounding saw wave pad ...
Does anyone have any presets that can be shared for the van halen JUMP sound on prophet 6 ??
The REV 2actually has the Jump patch...the issue is only the 16 voice version works. DSI made the patch out of a stack so when I played the chords while the low note was being held the low notes stopped. Odd cause the OBXa had only 8 voices...something is a miss.
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For such a simple sound I can't seem to get anywhere close to reproducing a good sounding saw wave pad
Oh, surely that patch is all pulse width modulation, not sawtooth.
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For such a simple sound I can't seem to get anywhere close to reproducing a good sounding saw wave pad
Oh, surely that patch is all pulse width modulation, not sawtooth.
I actually don't know if it is or not. I think it's a lot of phasing from detuning the oscillators and there is some chorus and reverb added to the sound as well.
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Saw waves it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUVZ9EcmYCA
The attack phase of the envelope is a bit too slow though in this example.
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I guess I'm out of my league on this one.
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I guess I'm out of my league on this one.
Not playing Jump every other day? ;D
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No. I seem to have misplaced my Van Halen collection. I thought it was right next to my AC/DC cassettes.
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No. I seem to have misplaced my Van Halen collection. I thought it was right next to my AC/DC cassettes.
Funny, but I'm just now "discovering" AC/DC! I was a proud rock-hating, new wave teen back in the day, and pointedly rejected most anything I considered "rock." But I couldn't resist learning "Jump," right? That synth riff is just a brilliant hook, and it bridged a gap for me between the music I hated and the music I loved. Truth is, anything with a synth in caught my attention, even if otherwise it wasn't my thing. But yeah - I'm going back now and giving all sorts of music a second glance. My mid-life crisis seems to involve rebelling against my teenage anti-rock rebellion!
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Now there's a twist: mid-life being a rebellion against the teenage years! I suspect when you're an old man, Ant, you'll be nursing. ;D
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Now there's a twist: mid-life being a rebellion against the teenage years! I suspect when you're an old man, Ant, you'll be nursing. ;D
I shall not comment on your comment, for fear of revealing far too much to the world!
Yeah, I'm having a curious time suddenly enjoying much music I once despised. And at the same time, as I posted elsewhere, I'm digging back into the music I made in those not-very-heady teenage synthy days. I still listen often enough to so much of the stuff I liked as a kid - my tastes in music tend to expand, it seems. So Gary Numand and Ultravox have come back to haunt in a wonderful way, while new weird and normal musics get scribbled onto lists.
And, sure, I wish I'd written the "Jump" riff - why not!
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Jump lead and riff on Prophet 6
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1RDgS9fhI4
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It's just a slight modification of the Brass Ensemble patch that was preset A1 on the OBXa. You can find PDF copies of the obxa patch book on the net. Why anyone would make a 16 voice layered version on the Rev2 is strange.
There was already a very good version that was made for the Prophet 08. It was posted a few times in the old forum.
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Here is the patch sheet. Sorry it's a little dark. It was taken on my iPad and my studio live room is not exceptionally bright.
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Here is the patch sheet. Sorry it's a little dark. It was taken on my iPad and my studio live room is not exceptionally bright.
NEAT!
How’s you get a hold of this?
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Wait , never mind ... I guess you own one! Muaha
Any chance you can record a little clip of it on your IPAD? And put it up an unlisted YouTube video for us to check ?
Do you have the prophet 6? Could you try to recreate it with the prophet 6?
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Now there's a twist: mid-life being a rebellion against the teenage years! I suspect when you're an old man, Ant, you'll be nursing. ;D
I shall not comment on your comment, for fear of revealing far too much to the world!
Yeah, I'm having a curious time suddenly enjoying much music I once despised. And at the same time, as I posted elsewhere, I'm digging back into the music I made in those not-very-heady teenage synthy days. I still listen often enough to so much of the stuff I liked as a kid - my tastes in music tend to expand, it seems. So Gary Numand and Ultravox have come back to haunt in a wonderful way, while new weird and normal musics get scribbled onto lists.
And, sure, I wish I'd written the "Jump" riff - why not!
It’s funny how instruments can make you appreciate music ... I found myself head banging to Miley Cyrus wrecking ball! Such amazing synth worth in there too!
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I quickly put the patch from the picture into my Oberheim Xpander, it sounds very authentic with a bit of Eventide H3000 preset 519 added. The H3000 apparently only launched in 1986, but 519 is based on the H910, which was around in 1984. Back in 1984, people probably would have thrown you out of the synth store if you played the Jump patch (again) :-)
So this patch is basically 2 heavily detuned saws with a subtle chorus added?
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Wait , never mind ... I guess you own one! Muaha
Any chance you can record a little clip of it on your IPAD? And put it up an unlisted YouTube video for us to check ?
Do you have the prophet 6? Could you try to recreate it with the prophet 6?
I'll be trying this weekend. :)
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Wait , never mind ... I guess you own one! Muaha
Any chance you can record a little clip of it on your IPAD? And put it up an unlisted YouTube video for us to check ?
Do you have the prophet 6? Could you try to recreate it with the prophet 6?
I'll be trying this weekend. :)
Very cool man! Please keep me updated
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In the comments of that youtube video above, the guy shows how he got there. I gave it a try, and while it's not perfect, it certainly got closer than any synth/preset I've tried besides the one in Arturia.
So according to that guy's recipe, basically you put both Osc's to saw, set the lowpass completely open, no or very little hi-pass. I turned the sub-osc off, fine-tuned the second saw sharp by just a hair (you'll start to hear the phasing if you start from 0 and move slowly). Set the amplitude attack to 0, decay to 0, sustain to max, release to 10'oclock or so. Turn off LFO. Add some slop. I added some chorus, and you can tweak reverb/delay either on the P6 or your rig, to taste.
I couldn't get the glide working for me, but it's definitely there in the song except for the intro.
Also, while I was listening for the glide I noticed like a ghost track of Dave's vocals around :11 that I never heard before. Right after the scream, there's like a little barely audible snippet of something in the vox. Cool, prob just someone's headphone mix bleeding in.
Anyways, I'd love to see if someone who knows wtf they're doing can tweak it from there and get it sounding tight. Oh, also I guess it goes without saying that you can't really play it on the P6 keyboard...not enough keys. I just used my 88key controller.
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;) See attached. This is really close, but I bet someone here can get closer.
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Weird. I'm hearing this completely differently than many people here. I've always reproduced it by just taking a saw wave, gating the VCA and VCF, turning the resonance up to 10, then boosting the VCA to make up for the loss of gain, and then if on a single oscillator synth putting a slight chorus on it or if on a dual-oscillator synth just adding a detuned second oscillator. The original may have been bright and buzzy enough to just leave the resonance off, but I find it helps on lots of synths.
Just did it on the Modal 002, and it sounded best when the filter was turned all the way up to 1-pole and the resonance about a third of the way up.
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I found that the secret ingredient is the right Plate Reverb. That gets you from 90% there to 99%.
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Here's my attempt at imitating the Jump intro. https://soundcloud.com/jdt9517/vh-jmp
Done on the P-08. Saw on osc 1, pw on osc 2 (50%). Lfo mod of the pw (lots of it). 2 pole filter.
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I made a Van Halen Jump patch tutorial on the Prophet Rev2 (with voice modeling of an OBXA) :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmJiU5ftI-Y
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There's not enough FIZZ and the envelopes are set too slow on the retro tutorial above compared to the sound on the actual song(love his videos!) . I know the OB-Xa can do it obviously....but the patch is a bit different than the vibe on the album IMO.
IMO, somehow the most obvious omission in the thread is the OB-6 doing it, which is damn close...has the characteristic fizz and everything. Luke's patches are pretty damn close, pretty awesome(the sound on steroids in vol 1 and vol 2 is a tiny bit fatter than the original but practically spot on....can't decide which one I like better....Vol 1 I think):
Vol 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a29nZUwRGCU&feature=youtu.be&t=70
Vol 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVGLc5mdras&feature=youtu.be&t=103
Original
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bq-potK_7Ts
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There's not enough FIZZ and the envelopes are set too slow on the retro tutorial above compared to the sound on the actual song(love his videos!) . I know the OB-Xa can do it obviously....but the patch is a bit different than the vibe on the album IMO.
IMO, somehow the most obvious omission in the thread is the OB-6 doing it, which is damn close...has the characteristic fizz and everything. Luke's patches are pretty damn close, pretty awesome(the sound on steroids in vol 1 and vol 2 is a tiny bit fatter than the original but practically spot on....can't decide which one I like better....Vol 1 I think):
Yeah, the secret is the SEM filter with the resonance all the way up. It gives it that fizz. Otherwise, it's just gated detuned saw waves. It generally works with any 12-pole filter and a fizzy enough saw, though.
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There's not enough FIZZ and the envelopes are set too slow on the retro tutorial above compared to the sound on the actual song(love his videos!) . I know the OB-Xa can do it obviously....but the patch is a bit different than the vibe on the album IMO.
IMO, somehow the most obvious omission in the thread is the OB-6 doing it, which is damn close...has the characteristic fizz and everything. Luke's patches are pretty damn close, pretty awesome(the sound on steroids in vol 1 and vol 2 is a tiny bit fatter than the original but practically spot on....can't decide which one I like better....Vol 1 I think):
Yeah, the secret is the SEM filter with the resonance all the way up. It gives it that fizz. Otherwise, it's just gated detuned saw waves. It generally works with any 12-pole filter and a fizzy enough saw, though.
The OB-6 definitely delivers on the OB sound, beautiful characteristic FIZZ. Hell I like that Vol 1 patch better than the original but it's THE sound. Spot on agree(good call man) about the resonance of the SEM filter....it's useful throughout the whole range of the control and it's amazing it's usefulness even all the way up. I have a few patches of my own that resonance is downright chimey and bell-like. Just a beautiful sounding filter. Dave and Tom knocked it out of the park on the OB-6.
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*12db/2-pole filter. I didn't brain well.
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There's not enough FIZZ and the envelopes are set too slow on the retro tutorial above compared to the sound on the actual song(love his videos!) . I know the OB-Xa can do it obviously....but the patch is a bit different than the vibe on the album IMO.
IMO, somehow the most obvious omission in the thread is the OB-6 doing it, which is damn close...has the characteristic fizz and everything. Luke's patches are pretty damn close, pretty awesome(the sound on steroids in vol 1 and vol 2 is a tiny bit fatter than the original but practically spot on....can't decide which one I like better....Vol 1 I think):
Yeah, the secret is the SEM filter with the resonance all the way up. It gives it that fizz. Otherwise, it's just gated detuned saw waves. It generally works with any 12-pole filter and a fizzy enough saw, though.
I don't believe the OBXa had the SEM filter though.
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I don't believe the OBXa had the SEM filter though.
Indeed. The OB-Xa features Curtis chips for VCOs, VCAs, EGs, and filters.
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I don't believe the OBXa had the SEM filter though.
Indeed. The OB-Xa features Curtis chips for VCOs, VCAs, EGs, and filters.
True. I meant that in the OB-6, the SEM filter with its 12-db slope and Oberheim voicing gives the same effect. For example, the 12-db filter on the Prophet 12 doesn't respond quite the same way, despite being a Curtis chip. But in general you can basically get the Jump sound on a 2-pole filter with the resonance up and a sufficiently warm and buzzy sawtooth wave.