The Official Sequential/Oberheim Forum
SEQUENTIAL/DSI => Prophet => Prophet Rev2 => Topic started by: Sacred Synthesis on January 30, 2017, 12:20:19 PM
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We human beings are funny creatures. From reading around and taking mental notes, I suspect there will develop a pro-Prophet '08/anti-Rev2 party. And I hope I'm not a founding member of it, because I'm totally excited about the REV2 and wish it nothing but success!
I anticipate the new party will mirror the Minimoog original Model D vs. re-issued Model D arguments. Since DSI says they're using new technology for the new instrument, could it really sound exactly the same as the Prophet '08? I don't know myself, but there lies the opportunity for the new party's platform: the new REV2, with its updated technology and onboard effects, just doesn't sound as pure and organic as the venerable old Prophet '08. After all, we could even add the word "vintage" to the discussion. Ah well, I'm just predicting.
I certainly want to favor the REV2.
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I believe this is possible. Nuanced differences, that take time to be perceived, corroborated, and debated. Nuanced differences that are meaningless to some, and individually, or collectively significant to others. Differences that are a result of experienced, informed, and artistic decision-making shaped by the moment. These differences resulting in a fomenting agent, positively influencing sales, re-sales.
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You're right, DSetto, but I'm just having fun here anticipating it. The darts are coming.
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I'm enjoying the fun. Just didn't sound like I was. :)
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Let's put it this way... I'm not getting rid of my "vintage" P'08 if or, more likely, when I get a Rev2. ;-)
The demos so far don't appear to have removed any of the elements of the P'08 sound that I treasure but I am expecting it to sound a little different. I'm pretty excited to explore those subtle differences, beyond the obvious added features.
Even if they do sound near identical, I use the P'08 so extensively on everything I record that having a second one is still incredibly useful. I'm never buying a synth with crippled modulation ever again! Given the price and rarity of Oberheim Xpanders, it'll have to be a Rev2.
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I'm the same. I intend to try one REV2 and use it alongside my other Prophet '08 and make careful comparisons. It won't be a matter of selling off everything to replace it all with new equipment. It's taken me years to acquire my present set up, and it would be foolish to suddenly sell it all and begin with a REV2 experiment. The Prophet '08 is just too superb an instrument to be instantly demoded by the new synthesizer on the block.
I'll be surprised if the two instruments sound exactly the same. But I don't want to get hung up on the "that sound" routine.
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Moinmoin,
the "problem" we have is not at all new. Being 58 years of age and playing in bands (keys and - for a long time exclusively - bass) I do own some musical instruments. As I do not yet know enough about the Rev" I will take basses as an example:
Of course there are different ones: upright, electric basses with or without frets, length and number of strings, ...
You may compare that to synthesizers, organs, pianos, ...
But even within the same "quality" there are differences in sound and - for me as player of same importance - handling, feel or whatever You may call it. Of course this has material reasons, too: width of neck, size of frets (if any), ..., but not all differences and features are that easy to tell.
Some instruments simply inspire in a way others don't and vice versa.
What I love about my P'08 is, that it is as close to a natural instrument as a pieco of electronics possibly can be. More than that: It is a natural instrument to me.
If the Rev2 will also have this feature, it will do so in another way, maybe similar but well distinguishable for the player (if he is sensitive at all, which may be presumed for musicians).
The bottom line (very appropriate for a bass player 8)) is: Although I am very curious about Rev2 - and my bank account already shivers with fear - it will never have an impact on my relation to the P'08.
Experience teaches, that I may leave some instrument more or less unplayed for even a few years, but as Arnold Schwarzenegger used to say: "I'll be back!"
Martin
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What I love about my P'08 is, that it is as close to a natural instrument as a pieco of electronics possibly can be. More than that: It is a natural instrument to me.
If the Rev2 will also have this feature, it will do so in another way, maybe similar but well distinguishable for the player.
I would agree with this, and I think it's what especially attracts and holds me to the Prophet '08. It's certainly due, in part, to the abundant modulation that can be used very subtly, but it's also related to the instrument's general tone. I would even credit the much-maligned filter, which I've never felt a desire to complain about while using. The 2-pole is just mystical.
In general, I find the Prophet '08 has the ability to sound like an "acoustic" synthesizer, an instrument with so much nuance and character as to sound as if it's affected by the wind, the light, and the temperature. In designing a monophonic patch, I always strive to achieve an end result that would make a listener think, "Gee, what sort of string, brass, reed, or woodwind instrument is that?" The key is always to add delicate movement of various types and to avoid a static quality. Nothing natural or acoustic is static. The Prophet '08 offers so many ways of reaching this goal, of making a synthesizer sound less like a synthesizer, less like an electronic device.
I, too, expect a musical ear will be able to distinguish a REV2 from a Prophet '08. I only hope it doesn't become a serious concern.
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Anyone has already had their hands on Rev 2? I am now in the process of selling my Prophet 08 for the Rev2 . Unfortunately. I'm budget strapped and wont have enough to have 2 at the same time.
As 08 user, the new Rev 2 is able to have the 08 patches downloaded onto the unit. My issue with 08 was that I had to plug an extra reverb pedal and its really a hassle for touring etc. I'm seeking to minimize various aspects for a cleaner setup on the road and Rev2 seems to solve my issues with it.
Just like to hear from anyone who has tried Rev2?
Thanks!
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Just like to hear from anyone who has tried Rev2?
Thanks!
The only people that have tried one has probably done so at NAMM or DSI themselves, so I'm guessing that comparisons with a P'08 are slim at the moment. What is it that you're wondering about?
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I'm sure, when the REV2 is released, there will be a number of comparison videos that are quickly produced. It's the big $2,000 question: How does the sonic character of the REV2 compare with the Prophet '08? We're all anxious to know. Another question will be, What is the quality of the onboard effects? Judging from the effects on the P-6 and OB-6, I expect it will be excellent. The problem is, the instrument won't be released until May, so we probably will not have answers until then.
In agreement with Sonicflw, one of the many reasons I'm excited about the REV2 is the ability to eliminate effects racks or pedals, thus simplifying one's set up. Simplification? What a beautiful concept!
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Yes, the FX options are going to be great. Having reverb on a pad and delay on a lead part etc is going to be brilliant.
I think I read it was just one effect per layer. Is that right? Are there any multifx in the later synths (Pro 6 and OB6) like reverb and delay on the same FX patch?
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Yes, the FX options are going to be great. Having reverb on a pad and delay on a lead part etc is going to be brilliant.
I think I read it was just one effect per layer. Is that right? Are there any multifx in the later synths (Pro 6 and OB6) like reverb and delay on the same FX patch?
As far as I understand there's one effect per layer on the REV2. The Prophet 6 and OB-6 have two effects, with possible delay + reverb as far as I can tell.
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Anyone has already had their hands on Rev 2? I am now in the process of selling my Prophet 08 for the Rev2 . Unfortunately. I'm budget strapped and wont have enough to have 2 at the same time. . .
Many years ago I sold my P-5 to get what I thought was better equipment. I have long regretted the sale. I have the P-08 now, which is definitely a worthy successor to the P-5. However, if I had to do it again, I would have hung on to the P-5 and found other ways to financially upgrade the equipment.
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Moinmoin,
that is my experience, too: Never sell an instrument, You will regret it.
Even if I sound like a snob: Money is the same everywhere in the world, things You can (or even cannot!) buy are more or less unique...
Martin
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I can confirm rev2 loads p08 patches, they sound the same as far as i can tell, I don't actually have a P08 here to compare but I compared with my recordings of my patches and it sounded basically the same.
You will need to adjust program levels, some modulations might need adjusting and it's possible filter settings might need a slight tweak depending on calibration but it's basically the same voice with extra stuff.
I am really enjoying the Rev2 so far. Have made a ton of patches and am looking forward to sharing some recordings..
Last night I have bass and pad going on the Rev2 sequencer while jamming OB-6 lead over the top, was excellent fun and I really noticed the different sound of the two units.
My wife commented that it sounded like Pink Floyd in my studio and I seemed to be having more fun than I have in a long time!
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bobule, thank you for your reports from the front lines. :)
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... am looking forward to sharing some recordings..
Please post video/audio as soon as you can.
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I'm still on the fence over whether a Rev2 is different enough to justify getting when I already have a P'08. I've no doubt it is an all-round better synth and I certainly liked the effects, the phasers especially, when I had a P6. The key thing for me is how much of a difference the now PWM-able sawtooth, saw-tri and triangle waveforms make. I'm guessing that the sub-oscillator is a square, in keeping with the Tetra? In which case, I have a pretty good idea what that adds. My experience of the P6's slop was that it loosened the tight tuning of the oscillators, which I've been doing with LFOs on the P'08, and anything past 12 o'clock was pretty unusable to my ears.
I mean, I love the look of the thing but I'm aware that I have 90% of the same synth sat right in front of me. If you take away the effects, in terms of sound can it go into places the P'08 presently cannot?
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Fuseball -
You're right; since these two instruments are so similar, why go through the trouble of choosing the new one? I'd say consider this thread (http://forum.davesmithinstruments.com/index.php/topic,1062.0.html).
Personally, I think there are enough differences to the REV2 to make it worthwhile switching over. Having onboard delay and eight more voices are already enough reasons to convince me. But another consideration, which probably won't persuade many people, is simply the differences of age. I had already intended to sell my current Prophet' 08's in order to buy new ones from DSI, just as a matter of having new instruments with new parts, since my instruments are five or six years old by now and I intended to keep them for years to come. I think this is justifiable, since I very seldom buy instruments. The Prophet REV2 is an opportunity to do just that, plus get a whole bunch of additional features. It's true, though, that it won't be like getting a new instrument, but only a very familiar one with a few perks. Still, that's good enough.
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I think if I was going to replace my existing P'08 rather than supplement it with a Rev2 then I would have to go with the 16 voice model. Initially I was only considering the 8 voice and keeping my old P'08 but if it really will reproduce my old sounds identically then a straight upgrade to the Rev2 is a possibility.
The other deciding factor will be the UK price it has crept up to by the time the Rev2 is in stores. I'm expecting the 16 voice to be well over £2000 by then. :(
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...but if it really will reproduce my old sounds...
And that's the two-thousand dollar question: Will the Prophet REV2 sound exactly like the Prophet '08?
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...but if it really will reproduce my old sounds...
And that's the two-thousand dollar question: Will the Prophet REV2 sound exactly like the Prophet '08?
Yes. I suspect I will have to buy the Rev2, copy my sounds over, and compare with the P'08 side-by-side to be absolutely sure. A lot of my sounds use the specific way that the P'08 handles noise as a modulation source on things like filter resonance. Most bread-and-butter sounds won't tell me what I need to know.
If it does sound identical then I'll most likely sell my old P'08. For space reasons more than anything else. If it doesn't then I'll probably keep both. For this reason I'll probably have to buy the 8-voice and then the upgrade board if I sell the P'08.
The one thing I absolutely cannot do is sell my P'08 before getting a Rev2. If I was unable to copy over my existing sounds, for any reason, I'd be gutted.
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My guess (and wish) is that the Prophet 8 presets on the REV2 will be a bit fatter. I have a Tetra and I did a side by side with a P8 only to find out that the P8 sounded thinner because the Tetra added a bit of Sub Osc. 80% of the time I prefered the Tetra ... we'll see :)
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With so many people selling their Prophet '08's to finance Rev2's, I thought by now the prices of the P'08 on Ebay and Reverb would be much lower. But the keyboard version is still generally holding at $1,500+ and the module at $1,000+. I think the sense is that the P'08 is the classic original and desirable for that reason. Plus, it's always easier to keep the excellent instrument that you do have, rather than buy the excellent instrument that you don't. There's always an amount of chaos and uncertainty involved in replacing one with the other.
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With so many people selling their Prophet '08's to finance Rev2's, I thought by now the prices of the P'08 on Ebay and Reverb would be much lower. But the keyboard version is still generally holding at $1,500+ and the module at $1,000+. I think the sense is that the P'08 is the classic original and desirable for that reason. Plus, it's always easier to keep the excellent instrument that you do have, rather than buy the excellent instrument that you don't. There's always an amount of chaos and uncertainty involved in replacing one with the other.
i've seen the keyboard version going for around 1100-1200 for a while?
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Where? I know you can find some cheap ones here and there, but the keyboard version seems most often to run from $1,400-$1,700.
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Where? I know you can find some cheap ones here and there, but the keyboard version seems most often to run from $1,400-$1,700.
reverb, craigslist, etc.
good deals pop up fairly frequently if you keep an eye out; picking up a strymon möbius that i found on craigslist in like-new condition for 350 tomorrow. next up is keeping an eye out for an eventide h9 max :)
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Where? I know you can find some cheap ones here and there, but the keyboard version seems most often to run from $1,400-$1,700.
East Coast prices tend to be higher on Craigslist, from past experience, but in the Southeast and Midwest (i.e., anything west of the Appalachians), I've seen 'em as low as $1K. Searching for nearby areas to an urban center gives you a pretty good sense of the price differentials.
(Disclaimer: I recreationally surf Craigslist for this very purpose, over morning coffee. :) )
Reverb prices tend also to be higher (though there are still deals to be had, in general, if you look closely enough).
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Ditto. I've sold tons of equipment on Craigslist, and continue to do so. And I'm always keeping an eye open for something special.
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Ditto. I've sold tons of equipment on Craigslist, and continue to do so. And I'm always keeping an eye open for something special.
the prophet rev2 was the first new piece i've gear i've bought in a while; i find it's way more cost effective to buy gear that people GAS'd over and then moved on, saving most of the depreciation value and getting it in like-new condition. Craigslist can offer some gems every once in a while, and i do my best to throw back gear that i no longer have use for at a decent deal to keep the energy flowing
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Anyone compare the P08 to the Rev 2 yet? Thinking of selling my P08 for a Rev 2 though want to hear some first hand accounts before making the decision.
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I guarantee you, those comparisons will be flooding Youtube any day now. It's the most obvious demo that one would want to make right now.
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I dumped my Prophet '08 banks into my Rev2 today.
As advertised, I think the Prophet '08 patches sound identical in the mighty Rev2. Well done DSI.
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Have to make a quick decision. I have a local offer on my Prophet 08 PE Keyboard for $1200 and a 10% off coupon to buy a Rev 2 making it $1350, so it wouldn't cost much to upgrade. Anyone who has tried the Rev 2 so far think there's any chance the original Prophet 08 is going to be considered superior in the long run?
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Have to make a quick decision. I have a local offer on my Prophet 08 PE Keyboard for $1200 and a 10% off coupon to buy a Rev 2 making it $1350, so it wouldn't cost much to upgrade. Anyone who has tried the Rev 2 so far think there's any chance the original Prophet 08 is going to be considered superior in the long run?
I had the same dilemma a few weeks ago, also found a great priced used 08 here and didn't know if to wait for the REV2 and spend more or get the 08... Needless to say, after a lot pf research I ordered my REV2 today :)
I did a lot of research and except for a (very) few exceptions, there seems to be a consensus that the REV2 is superior and a worthy upgrade to the 08... Of course, it always depends on what and how you're going to use it but the fact that a lot of people are selling their 08's says something... For my part, I'm sure I would've felt sorry afterwards if I didn't get the REV2... :) Best of luck with your decision!
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Hi guys! Great to find you here and warm greetings from Bucharest.
I finally made the "big" step today and ordered my REV2. Its supposed to arrive after the 1st of July so here comes the dreaded waiting part...(hoping maybe I'll have it on my 4th of July birthday haha).
I went with the 8 voices version for now because the 16 one exceeded my budget, but I'll probably look into the upgrade in the future...
I mostly compose and produce cinematic and library music for tv and trailers so I think the REV2 will be a nice match with the Sub Phatty I also have now... I can't wait to do some sound design on it and explore new sounds.
Its my first DSI intrument so I hope I've made a wise decision.
Again, good to find you all here and looking forward to all the interesting discussions. Cheers!
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Deciding between the 8 and 16 voice (16 will cost me $450 more)...worth it? In what applications might I want 16 voices? Any advice?
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16 Voice Applications:
• Play notes/chords while the sequencer is playing
• Use as a bi-timbral 8-voice instrument
• Long droning pads without dropouts
• Monster unison patches?
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16 Voice Applications:
• Play notes/chords while the sequencer is playing
• Use as a bi-timbral 8-voice instrument
• Long droning pads without dropouts
• Monster unison patches?
For me the appeal of 16 voices would be the ability to make 8-note stacked patches, particularly with the 2 layers hard-panned on opposite sides. I do love a wide stereo sound.
I still expect I will get an 8-voice and expand later though.
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I guarantee you, those comparisons will be flooding Youtube any day now. It's the most obvious demo that one would want to make right now.
With the 16 voice Rev 2, can you do the "panning" that you describe in your posts (I believe it's one Prophet 08 hard panned left and another hard panned right)?
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I learned this from reading Sacred Synthesis' posts. ... In Prophet '08 or Rev2 (8 or 16 voice):
Stack A outputs to one mixer channel. Stack B outputs to a different mixer channel. Those can then be panned hard L and hard R. Or anywhere else. They can either be mono. Or, they could be discrete stereo pairs.
From my limited experience with a r2, "spread" allows one stack's voices to either be all mono, or to bounce in successive voices (?) L-R; wider field as spread knob is greater.
So, the two aspects can be added to work somewhat together.
But, it is my understanding that - in the Prophet '08 rev 1 & 2 series- one cannot assign a Stack's sound to a certain position in the pan field.
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I guarantee you, those comparisons will be flooding Youtube any day now. It's the most obvious demo that one would want to make right now.
With the 16 voice Rev 2, can you do the "panning" that you describe in your posts (I believe it's one Prophet 08 hard panned left and another hard panned right)?
Yes, using the two pair of output jacks on the back of the Rev2. All the panning is done at the mixer, and since a sixteen-voice Rev2 is basically equivalent to two Prophet '08 units, it should work fine. The advantage to this method is also that you can process each layer differently. Some times, for example, it's beautifully effective to have much more reverb on one layer than the other.
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An external mixer isn't needed for panning on the Rev2, we included a Fixed Pan mode in the Misc Parameters which will allow you to pan each layer hard left and hard right on the synth itself. You can read more about it on page 62 of the manual under Pan Mod Mode.
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Made to order! You guys are good.
"Pan Mod Mode: Alternate, Fixed — Designates the behavior of panning
when Pan is used as a modulation destination. Choosing alternate
directs modulation to the Pan Spread parameter, and thereby affects the
panning width of individual voices within a program. Choosing fixed
directs modulation to panning for the entire program. (In this case you
should set Pan Spread to "zero".) For example, if you choose Mod Wheel
as a source and Pan as a destination in the mod matrix with an Amount
setting of 127, pushing the Mod Wheel to its full (top) position will pan
the sound hard right. An Amount of -127 will pan the sound hard left
when you push the Mod Wheel to its top position."
When my time comes, I'll be very interested to experiment with this.
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Absolutely wow. I remember you writing about this years back I think.
Am I getting this right? Specific pan setting is now modulatable?
For simple stereo setups, this "seemingly simple" bit allows for some good stuff.
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Made to order! Wooohoo! You guys are good.
I tried to tell you about this feature a long time ago.
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Made to order! Wooohoo! You guys are good.
I tried to tell you about this feature a long time ago.
On what - the Prophet '08 or the Prophet 12? I have to admit, I've thus far preferred to have the panning done from the mixer, since it allows you more freedom to make changes as you play. The Rev2 may change my mind on this, but I'll only be able to decide by experimenting and comparing.
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That Rev2 had DC source and a way to pan the voices within the voice architecture. Was hinted at by DSI earlier on as well. Anyway, Rev2 allows for voice panning within the voice architecture itself.
Interesting question: either hard pan or pan spread? Wonder if those will be useful combined? Workaround could quite likely be to use a mixer in that case.
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I guarantee you, those comparisons will be flooding Youtube any day now. It's the most obvious demo that one would want to make right now.
With the 16 voice Rev 2, can you do the "panning" that you describe in your posts (I believe it's one Prophet 08 hard panned left and another hard panned right)?
Yes, using the two pair of output jacks on the back of the Rev2. All the panning is done at the mixer, and since a sixteen-voice Rev2 is basically equivalent to two Prophet '08 units, it should work fine. The advantage to this method is also that you can process each layer differently. Some times, for example, it's beautifully effective to have much more reverb on one layer than the other.
So it's not possible to pan 8 voice Layer 1 hard left, an 8 voice layer 2 hard right, internally, send that through The stereo FX and then just come out of main out L and R to have a true stereo sound?
In your opinion, does this "true stereo" method make the P08/Rev 2 a superior sounding synth to the P6?
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See Robot Heart's comment above and my post below it. Honestly, I can't say too much about this feature until I've actually worked with a Rev2. What I can say is that creating the stereo field at the mixer allows for changes made mid-music, so that the mixer itself becomes a part of the synthesizer and the performance. I some times fade in and out one layer while I'm playing (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzBVP5RCNVI), and I'm not sure what the possibilities of this would be with the Rev2.
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My REV2 arrived last week and it its totally worth the upgrade!
After owning the Prophet '08 PE for a few years (and using it in every piece of music I've created since then) I have clearly established my issues about it - the REV2 has satisfied and exceeded those expections.
I cannot with confidence comment on the difference in sound since I sold the P'08 in February I can only rely on my ears and memory. Apart from the built-in DSP effects (which are excellent btw), my psychology tells me the REV2 sounds better.
I strongly believe the physical build and user interface of a synth are just as important than its sound.
The REV2 built way better. The physical construction is much better, especially the sheet metal. It seems thicker. I appreciate the silk screening. The knobs seem more firm. The buttons are bigger and easier to push (P'08 had *tiny* buttons). More importantly the keybed is very smooth. In fact I would easily argue the REV2 (and Prophet 6) is the best keybed I have in this room (I have 14 keybeds in here at this time). Better than my Motif XS6 (its good but the AT is too sensitive). In contrast the P'08 keybed - in my opinion is the worse in every way (sorry Dave, deep down I bet you agree).
The visuals from the LED on the oscillator section are helpful in understanding a preset. Browsing matrix mod slots shows source, amount and destination simultaneously - this is really important. The effects only have two parameters each, which is perfect. Keep it simple. For someone who enjoys shaping sounds, the REV2 is exceptionally flexible with its multiple layers and great modulation options.
I do miss the gated sequencer LEDs and it took me a bit to work my head around editing sequence data. I strongly believe there is room for a UI enhacement that would allow users to edit the gated sequencer with greater ease.
Somthing similar to this - a horizontal scolled display of seq steps.
|
| Seq 1 Step 5 |
| 2 3 4 [5] 6 7 8 |
| 000 025 015 079 127 120 RST |
| |
Also, parameter changes should display their original value alongside the new value... there is plenty of screenspace for it.
| |
| Cutoff |
| (50) 77 |
| |
The REV2 is a great synth.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4203/34472060993_3f246c2bc0_h.jpg)
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Just got back from having a play with a 16-voice Rev2.
I agree with everything pmanderson says above. It sounded, to me, like the resonance was leaving a bit more low-end intact than the P'08 does. On my trusty headphones it felt there was more weight to the sound, and that's without introducing effects or the sub-oscillator. The overall character hasn't changed dramatically but it sounded a little more refined and classy than before. Thankfully all my noise modulation tricks sounded right and worked as well as on the P'08. :)
For me, the shape mod on the non-pulse waveforms is the big draw. They all sound great and are begging to be modulated. Sub sounds better blended than I remember it from the Tetra too. I was also pretty impressed with the new high-pass effect.
After so much time with the P'08, the interface takes a bit of getting used to. It is better in almost all ways though and I was glad to see better LEDs for the LFOs than those in the P12 and Pro2. I found the mod matrix UI a little quirky as you have to use the value knob beside the screen to scroll through the sources for many if them. I kept wanting to use the knob that selects mod slot by accident. I strongly agree with pmanderson that displaying the stored value beside the current one would be very useful. It's the only thing I would really miss from the P'08.
Actually, there is one thing... I found it quite difficult to tell the position of the knobs. It might have simply been the lighting in the room but the shiny knob tops made the white line difficult to see. If that's the only thing I can really pick fault with then you're doing pretty good!
I would also find helpful some kind of simple diagnostic screen that shows the voices activated as you play them. It would be good for figuring out any calibration or voicing issues, particularly once people start installing expansion cards in the 8-voice.
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Really helpful posts, thanks pmanderson and Fuseball!
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With the 16 voice Rev 2, can you do the "panning" that you describe in your posts (I believe it's one Prophet 08 hard panned left and another hard panned right)?
I think the Rev2 will be able to recreate my favorite Poly Evolver patch (#27 Popcorgan)... Based on what I've read, the voice architecture in the Rev2 allows for similar stereo spread and pan modulation.
Check out this program in this demo at 4:53:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WFM--WmT2M&t=293s
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Excellent overviews, fellas. Very encouraging.
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Again, I think it's inevitable that some of us will prefer the Prophet '08 to the Prophet Rev2. In revising an instrument, it's always the case that changes are made by the designers that seem illogical to the users. After all, the old instrument was superb, so why change it? Well, both Prophet synthesizers continue to be widely available, so we're free to take our pick. Instrument designers have other ideas from those of us who play their instruments, so it's always going to be the case that there will be disagreements between us. I've never played an instrument that didn't seem, at some point, to seriously need a change or improvement.
I still have two P'08 Keyboards and two P'08 Modules. I'm also looking forward to giving the Rev2 a fair chance when all the known issues are resolved. I don't expect perfection, and I have no doubt that some changes will make me scratch my head. But there will be improvements and advantages in the new design as well, and these will be appreciated and carefully weighed against the disappointments. Such is life. In the end, that instrument will win that best serves the day's musical needs.
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Hi All,
Thanks a lot for all the very good info on the REV2...I Have one P08 and love it, I just bought a Tetra to expand it to 12 voices...I've never had more limitations in the music I play than with 12 voices...So, 16 voices, apart being great might not be necessary for me. For the expanded/increased modulations, I'm not a big tweaker so, I'm already golden with the P08...And finally, the P08 has a dedicated Eventide H9, so, no need for specific effects...At last, if I wouldn't have found two months ago a Prophet 12 at a good price (3600 CAN$ in a store with guarantee instead of 4000$ CAN$), I might have pulled the trigger on the REV2 but not now...And if I have to buy (If I have...Well, no obligation but with synths, you know...) another DSI, it will be a P6 or an OB6 module...Or both. So, I will pass on the REV2 but great choice and Congrats for the guys who just bought it.
Sincerely
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Hi I've used a prophet 08 many times in the past, and always liked the sound but also found it wasn't quite there for me in certain key aspects. Still a very good synth and one of the best modern ones. I just never felt I liked it enough to buy one myself so continued just using a friend's one at his place now and then.
Fast forward to today, I own a REV2 and can say it really is so much more than the sum of its improvements over the Prophet '08. It doesn't negate the Prophet 08 at all , if you are happy with the '08 then you still will be/should be. Afterall new synths don't usurp vintage and often simple synths from the 80s? both are fine.
I do feel however that with REV2, dsi have hit it out of the park, It's absolutely stunning from top to bottom. Design, U.I, Sound extras, Keys and everything to me is above and beyond the Prophet 08. If you are on the fence about 'upgrading' I would definitely go for it, if you won't lose much by selling your '08.
They have improved REV2 so much and added in so many nice and important sound creation abilities, it is like a different synth entirely (but in a good way that Prophet 08 users could still get used to fast). I give the REV2 10/10 on usage and sound quality. I would have given Prophet 08 a 7/10 on both. That's how much better it is to me. The sound moves me more, inspires me more. It opens up the synth, makes it more lively, more "analog", it's closer to what I'd call a real Prophet now, even with DCOs. It does not live in the shadow of the Prophet 6 (or even 5) any more in my eyes. In fact those synths now look rather lacking by comparison (and I don't just mean spec/features)
The REV2 to me is the most exciting new instrument in a long time, which in a large part is exactly due to the new stuff it contains that is missing on the '08, inc the polysequencer, the shape mod, the key feel, the sub osc and the effects engine. The effects are not just thrown in for good measure (like a Prophet 08 with some outboard) they have formed very tight, intrinsic parts of my sound design in ways no external effects every could. That they can be modulated by the ample onboard sources is brilliant and opens up the Rev2 to being able to make a massively wider world of sounds than you could ever do on a Prophet '08 (without some very convoluted and non inspiring hoop jumping involving lots of other gear).
Rev2 is just all there, ready to play, program and inspire. And to me it looks great, even nicer than Prophet 6 (thanks mainly to its correct proportions as a 5 octave keyboard!) but even the new red backlit buttons (the best buttons I've seen on any dsi synth looks wise) the sharp black OLED screen (big improvement over Prophet 08), the layout and even the Font used (yes I for one actually prefer this modern look to "Prophet" vs the old fashioned, if sometimes admired, original font style). I'm very glad they did go ahead and stick "Prophet" on it and changed the name. This synth probably deserves that title more than any other in their range (ok.. Yes the Prophet 6 too). I honestly was never in love with how the prophet 08 looked either, nor the very 90s looking button shape, the sticker panel, the wall wart... it was a great sound source but not something I could really love. Sound is more important of course but to me it also has to look the part and feel the part (solid build) and REV2 is night and day over the Prophet 08 there. The only thing I could have wished for is the Sequential badge in place of DSI but that would be seriously nit-picking. I understand why they leave that for the VCO stuff, that's fine.
It just looks like a modern prophet fit for the future, as a workhorse live and in the studio, I think it'll continue the legacy of its father (the 08) into the next decade and really does sound better. It can get far more organic and vintage sounding by using shape mod, new slop etc. It can sound warmer with sub. And it can do things that many other synths can do that the Prophet 08 couldn't (bandpass and highpass by modulating the hipass effect along with the lowpass where needed).
A creative workhorse that exceeds the original in every way as far as I can see. I honestly don't know any reason to choose the original over REV2 if you have the choice and money wasn't an issue.
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I guess people have moved on, but I thought there would be more commentary and reflection on the new versus the old. Perhaps the instrument with the greatest number of features will always win in the synthesizer world.
As I wait for the Rev2 to fully mature and have all its issues ironed out, I am indeed enjoying the simplicity of the old fully-vetted Prophet '08, and feeling quite sorry for some of you.
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I guess people have moved on, but I thought there would be more commentary and reflection on the new versus the old. Perhaps the instrument with the greatest number of features will always win in the synthesizer world.
As I wait for the Rev2 to fully mature and have all its issues ironed out, I am indeed enjoying the simplicity of the old fully-vetted Prophet '08, and feeling quite sorry for some of you.
Don't feel sorry for me, I'll take the rev2 with that one minor (ish) problem over a prophet 08 simply because I couldn't justify the prophet 08 as a synth without sub or waveshaping, which are imo crucial to making the curtis DCOs sound more organic. Not that I hate the 08 or anything but the REV2 is a much better synth from interface to build quality to sound. And I don't think at all 'more features always wins', but when those 'features' directly impact the tone (or can?) then yes.
TBH even If I never swapped out my board I'd be more than happy with the synth *sound wise* and what I'm getting from it in music. I can't help but think many of these issues must read far worse in text than they are in reality, I've never been so pleased with a synth and have had many synths. My synth hunting days are over thanks to REV2. :) I didn't feel prophet 6, OB-6, Prophet 08, JD-XA, Deepmind12 or any other modern synth was quite there overall but rev2 is.
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That's all good to hear. I presume I'll feel the same. My point was, it's always nice to have a fully-vetted instrument, whereas the vetting process itself is a bit painful to observe.
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That's all good to hear. I presume I'll feel the same. My point was, it's always nice to have a fully-vetted instrument, whereas the vetting process itself is a bit painful to observe.
Well you know the saying ...'don't live on the cutting edge if you're not prepared to bleed'! :)
Despite the issues I and others have experienced, overall I'm still very happy with my purchase and I have to say the response from my retailer SXproaudio was excellent.
They shipped a replacement and arranged for the courier to pick up the faulty REV2 whilst dropping it off - that's about as hassle free as you can get! :)
The response from DSI support was also very good, so all in all still a mostly very positive experience.
PLUS I've been able to enjoy the synth now and (hopefully), have maybe helped others to diagnose their synths too, so I get a warm, fuzzy feeling inside....oh wait....sorry no that's the curry from earlier! :)
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While the Rev 2 is an obvious improvement the price gap between selling a used 08 and buying a new Rev 2, I suspect, mean most people are **not** upgrading -- they are either continuing to run with the 08 (like me) or buying the Rev 2 as their first foray into this synth and slowly learning about all it has to offer.
I've found the 08's engine so deep that years later I'm still discovering new things about it sound wise. I've recently been taming the audio-frequency LFO and audio mod features to get lots of dirty-sounding FM patches that I had no idea were hiding in there. I suspect it will be years before all these new rev 2 owners discover exactly how deep the synth goes, and then the real comparisons can be done! :)
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Well said. I have in no way grown tired or bored with the Prophet '08. The instrument still totally fascinates me, and there is still much to discover within it.
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Well said. I have in no way grown tired or bored with the Prophet '08. The instrument still totally fascinates me, and there is still much to discover within it.
This is very encouraging, as a first time DSI synth owner I am really looking forward to a long "relationship" with the Rev2. Knowing it has hidden depths and there is always more to learn helps in those frustrating moments when I don't seem to be able to get the sound I want :)
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I had a Prophet '08 for perhaps two years before I really took to it. I used it with an amount of satisfaction, yet only of a moderate degree. But after I discovered the stereo arrangement that I presently use, the instrument became like a third arm. This arrangement personalized it for me, gave it a distinct recognizable domestic signature. Virtually every patch then sounded lovely to my ears.
Even with the Rev2 waiting on the wings, I am in no way anxious to sell my Prophet '08's. In fact, I still consider staying with them and even getting another one to complete the set up. I'm certain I could happily make due with them and nothing else for the rest of my musical days. There's something even comforting in the thought of it, of leaving the buy-and-sell and buy-and-sell circus, even the forum, and passing all my synthesizer time, not in drooling over NAMM, or posting, or daily scouring the Internet for synth news and instrument demonstrations, but rather, sitting at the wonderful Prophet '08 and producing musical beauty to the degree I'm able, by the grace of God. In fact, that's pretty much how things are now, happily, and should be more so in the future.
Of course, I also have the Poly Evolvers. But still, these are as close to a Prophet '08 as you can get. They're Prophet '08's with a few additional things thrown in.
What primarily attracts me to the Rev2 is the onboard delay - which will eliminate the need for an effects rack or pedal - and the greater number of voices. Aside from these, nothing else is actually needed. For me, the Rev2 will simply be a Prophet '08+. The Prophet '08 in either form is enough for me; period.
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While the Rev 2 is an obvious improvement the price gap between selling a used 08 and buying a new Rev 2, I suspect, mean most people are **not** upgrading -- they are either continuing to run with the 08 (like me) or buying the Rev 2 as their first foray into this synth and slowly learning about all it has to offer.
Yes, this unfortunately is the case. Although I haven't yet put up a Prophet '08 for sale, I've been watching the used prices. I don't think we can hope to get more than $1,000 for a Prophet '08 PE Keyboard in excellent condition, and I doubt this will change unless one of us can invent one of those the-old-is-better-than-the-new type arguments. This makes it difficult to upgrade to the Rev2, which then makes you consider keeping the Prophet '08 for some time.
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One thing that I think speaks well for the Prophet '08 is the fact that YouTube is loaded with many videos in which the instrument is used to make music. It doesn't seem to be a popular noise-maker, but much more inspires its users to make actual pieces of music - very much in the synthesizer domain - and many of them are quite impressive.
It will be interesting to see if the Rev2 inspires the same response. It certainly should, but unfortunately, the instrument is still in the first phase of its life when users are excited and prone to make only short demonstrations in a rush. After the limelight has been passed to other new synthesizers, hopefully the Rev2 will age and mellow and be viewed at last as a serious musical instrument fit for producing serious compositions.
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One thing that I think speaks well for the Prophet '08 is the fact that YouTube is loaded with many videos in which the instrument is used to make music. It doesn't seem to be a popular noise-maker, but much more inspires its users to make actual pieces of music - very much in the synthesizer domain - and many of them are quite impressive.
It will be interesting to see if the Rev2 inspires the same response. It certainly should, but unfortunately, the instrument is still in the first phase of its life when users are excited and prone to make only short demonstrations in a rush. After the limelight has been passed to other new synthesizers, hopefully the Rev2 will age and mellow and be viewed at last as a serious musical instrument fit for producing serious compositions.
Yes well put. In my case the Rev2 seamlessly slotted into my workflow. I already wrote three fresh tracks, using my own patches within a matter of a few weeks after I got the Rev2 and was over the excitement :P
It is helping me big time moving away from VST plugin based composing and sound design. At the moment I am only using Bitwig for percussion and driving the MIDI channels (notes and sometimes CCs). Very nice experience to have such an amazing synth to work and play with.
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On the circus. It's an interesting thing. The circus can be a water cooler, a river where healthy info exchanges. But, it has the other side. ... Your contributions here elevate.
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What primarily attracts me to the Rev2 is the onboard delay - which will eliminate the need for an effects rack or pedal - and the greater number of voices. Aside from these, nothing else is actually needed. For me, the Rev2 will simply be a Prophet '08+.
The effects are also a big improvement for me, as are the variable waveshapes. I think the better keybed is a big improvement that you will enjoy. Another addition that I really like (that you will not) is the ability to turn Slop up to higher levels. I find that turning it up to around 16 or so sometimes helps with getting more of an old Oberheim sound, which is a sound that I really love. Having additional voices seems like a big plus for achieving your stereo arrangement (which I also use), and yet thus far, I continue to still do it your way with an '08 module. If I didn't use splits and layers, one board would now do it for me. But because I do use splits and layers, and I may have to purchase a Rev2 module. As I've mentioned before, the only thing I don't like about the Rev2 is the display, which is too small for me. I prefer the display of the '08.
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One thing that I think speaks well for the Prophet '08 is the fact that YouTube is loaded with many videos in which the instrument is used to make music. It doesn't seem to be a popular noise-maker, but much more inspires its users to make actual pieces of music - very much in the synthesizer domain - and many of them are quite impressive.
It will be interesting to see if the Rev2 inspires the same response. It certainly should, but unfortunately, the instrument is still in the first phase of its life when users are excited and prone to make only short demonstrations in a rush. After the limelight has been passed to other new synthesizers, hopefully the Rev2 will age and mellow and be viewed at last as a serious musical instrument fit for producing serious compositions.
Firstly, and don't take this the wrong way, I've seen it often.. it sounds more like your thoughts are just trying to justify why you want to keep the '08(s) and not advance to the next level. I see it all the time. Everything you've said is pretty much a moot point concerning actual capability and usability. Everything the Prophet 08 is to you, the Rev2 is to me (and others). Many of us never had a Prophet 08 (though I played with one quite a few times though it didn't quite fit the bill overall for me in a few areas - areas that have been amply addressed by the Rev2).
In other words you seem to be hypothesising reasons to stick with the 08 over the Rev2s because of the hassles of selling the 08 or finding extra cash for a '2, but some of us just had to go spend £1200 - £1900 on these things without a prophet 08 to sell towards it so I can't see that as any argument. Sell the 08s asap before their prices drop even further and get a Rev2, it's awesome in so many ways the Prophet 08 never was. And I mean all those little additions, the general feel, the keybed, the proper power cable, the beautiful buttons (use and looks), the refined inspiring layout for programming, then the actual sound enhancements which I feel you, and some others, are playing down to make it seem like Prophet 08 is 'basically as good'. It isn't. If this was a different synth by a different company vs a Prophet 08 it would be more clear, but because it's obviously masquerading under the Prophet 08 mk2 banner to many I feel its making people ignore the genuine greatness of the REV2 as its own thing.
I too like the guy above have made a ton of *real* music and custom sounds with Rev2 since I've had it, it replaced other synths in my tracks (some inc vintage VCO polys) and I find it inspiring, productive and capable of almost anything I can think of in terms of what I need in actual music. There is no 'honeymoon' period here or blind devotion to it as a shiny new toy that can only be used for YT demos or something, it's straight into the studio, it's making music, making sounds the Prophet 08 couldn't.. easily, sounding better than the 08 in how organic and rich it is compared to the 08 and with tasteful use of the FX section opens up a whole new universe of inspiring sounds without going down the rabbit hole of confusion/drowning in FX like some other modern analogs do.
In other words it's a stunning synth every bit as good as the prophet 08 and then 50% better again. There is zero argument for preferring the 08 over the rev2, unless you want to get seriously nerdy and go on about the logo (I honestly prefer the new logo was never a fan of the gaudy old font on the old prophets personally this looks built for the future not the past), as for the screen I have good eyesight and have no issues with it, it's really good and has a massive viewing angle, I can read it from 6 feet away it's so sharp and vivid, and it looks classy too because being black OLED it just blends in with the analog ethos more and keeps it focussed on the controls and playing. The screen doesn't need using that much at all anyway, rev2 is definitely far better thought out than the 08 when it comes to menus and programming and hands on.
So, what I'm saying is until you have one all your text is just supposition and justification for keeping what you have without taking a risk or 'upgrading' (and believe me it's an upgrade and then some), and lets not even joke about starting rumours of 'older sounds better' because the Prophet 08 is, as we know, one of the most marmite synths on the market, many people hate it as much as love it and Rev2 deserves to fly on its own sound, powers and qualities without being held back or saddled with falsehoods by disgruntled P'08 owners. It can sound like a Prophet 08 but it doesn't have to, it can sound far far better and do far far more. That is all there is to that debate. Other than if you can justify/afford to buy it. If you have (3?) prophet 08s I really don't know what's stopping you, you have assets to sell off to get you it. You don't need more than one prophet 08 esp if you got a 16 voice rev2. I will be selling some of my old synths because I no longer need then with Rev2 on board. In fact I'll get down to just the rev2 a piano and guitar and I'll be done, after years of collecting old and new synths, buying and selling, had over 100 synths in the past 15 years, those days are over. It's time for music not synth hunting, and Rev2 has been the first new synth that's finally allowed me to feel that way.
YMMV but I seriously doubt it. ;)
p.s I've got the 8 voice version but am seriously considering buying the board in the future when I have spare cash, the synth is that good and even in non-stacked mode I've made some gorgeous long release sounds that get note stealing even with 8 voice poly, so 16 voice would make this a world beater. It's also perfect for those who want to layer and multi-sequence, and entire analog sound creation universe in one sexy board! NO messing around with 2 or more space taking units + loads of cables/FX boxes.
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In other words it's a stunning synth every bit as good as the prophet 08 and then 50% better again.
... the Prophet 08 is, as we know, one of the most marmite synths on the market, many people hate it as much as love it and Rev2 deserves to fly on its own sound, powers and qualities without being held back or saddled with falsehoods by disgruntled P'08 owners. It can sound like a Prophet 08 but it doesn't have to, it can sound far far better and do far far more.
I've played the Rev 2 a bunch at the store and I'm a little perplexed by this. The sound exactly the same with a few extra (welcome) features! The thing I miss most is the polyphonic step sequencer -- as I rarely max out the modulation matrix as it is on the 08, when I need a sub oscillator I'm happy using a stacked patch, and the other features (waveshaping etc.) are not all that important to me. I'd rank this feature set a good but incremental improvement over the 08 architecture, and since the resale value of the 08 is so low now, if I was to sell for an upgrade to spend 1000s of dollars the prophet 12 would be a much more likely target. Both the 08 and the rev 2 are going to be considered great synthesizers in 2050 -- I don't think the upgrades on the rev 2 render the 08 obsolete in the slightest.
I disagree with Sacred, there's no way the 08 sounds better than the Rev, or vice versa. There's an incremental feature set upgrade on the Rev 2. But honestly, if I was starting fresh and had to choose between a 08 for 1000 and a Rev 2 for close to 2000 after tax, I'd consider the 08 the better value.
I suspect the value comparison will equalize in 8 months when all of the new rev 2 owners come to the same realization that the original 08 owners did about the 'weak' filter, 'thin' sound oscillators, etc (I don't agree with these criticisms at all by the way). When there are a bunch of used Rev 2s on the market, perhaps the price spread will better reflect the feature spread.
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One thing that I think speaks well for the Prophet '08 is the fact that YouTube is loaded with many videos in which the instrument is used to make music. It doesn't seem to be a popular noise-maker, but much more inspires its users to make actual pieces of music - very much in the synthesizer domain - and many of them are quite impressive.
It will be interesting to see if the Rev2 inspires the same response. It certainly should, but unfortunately, the instrument is still in the first phase of its life when users are excited and prone to make only short demonstrations in a rush. After the limelight has been passed to other new synthesizers, hopefully the Rev2 will age and mellow and be viewed at last as a serious musical instrument fit for producing serious compositions.
Firstly, and don't take this the wrong way, I've seen it often.. it sounds more like your thoughts are just trying to justify why you want to keep the '08(s) and not advance to the next level. I see it all the time. Everything you've said is pretty much a moot point concerning actual capability and usability. Everything the Prophet 08 is to you, the Rev2 is to me (and others). Many of us never had a Prophet 08 (though I played with one quite a few times though it didn't quite fit the bill overall for me in a few areas - areas that have been amply addressed by the Rev2).
Goodness gracious, that's an overly analytical misreading of my posting on this subject and filled with mistaken assumptions. I have every intention of selling both of my Prophet '08 Keyboards and at least one Module. But meanwhile, I'm perfectly content using the instruments I've got. That's my point. Whether Prophet '08 or Rev2, I'm happy. The appearance of the Rev2 does not mean that suddenly the Prophet '08 is a miserable instrument. They're both superb, and any musician that has one or the other should feel blessed indeed. Simple as that.
If you took my statement about "the-old-is-better-than-the-new" to be troubling or discouraging, note that I referred to "inventing" the argument. In other words, that statement was a joke; it was bit of sarcasm. If you don't believe me, then please read my original post that started this thread. I'm presently biting my nails waiting for the Rev2 to fully mature and have any and all of its problems resolved, so that I can then buy several of them. Believe me, I don't need to be talked into buying the instrument, or persuaded that it is in various ways better than the Prophet '08. That's just old news, and I'm way ahead of you.
By the way, I was asking for some of these very improvements to the Prophet '08 before this forum existed, and I have been cheering for the Rev2 since it was first announced. But DSI went beyond my hopes, adding quite a bit more to the instrument. Excellent; I'm all for it, even though I don't need some of it. They've done a superb job. But meanwhile, I have no choice but to continue making music with my assortment of Prophet '08's. I'm entirely happy with that and won't be made unhappy, simply because a newer version of the instrument is now available.
Please don't misunderstand the ability to be content with what one has to be some sort of inability to move on. Contentment is not a disability; it's an advantageous ability.
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The first post from this thread:
We human beings are funny creatures. From reading around and taking mental notes, I suspect there will develop a pro-Prophet '08/anti-Rev2 party. And I hope I'm not a founding member of it, because I'm totally excited about the REV2 and wish it nothing but success!
I anticipate the new party will mirror the Minimoog original Model D vs. re-issued Model D arguments. Since DSI says they're using new technology for the new instrument, could it really sound exactly the same as the Prophet '08? I don't know myself, but there lies the opportunity for the new party's platform: the new REV2, with its updated technology and onboard effects, just doesn't sound as pure and organic as the venerable old Prophet '08. After all, we could even add the word "vintage" to the discussion. Ah well, I'm just predicting.
I certainly want to favor the REV2.
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And another post:
Fuseball -
You're right; since these two instruments are so similar, why go through the trouble of choosing the new one? I'd say consider this thread (http://forum.davesmithinstruments.com/index.php/topic,1062.0.html).
Personally, I think there are enough differences to the REV2 to make it worthwhile switching over. Having onboard delay and eight more voices are already enough reasons to convince me. But another consideration, which probably won't persuade many people, is simply the differences of age. I had already intended to sell my current Prophet' 08's in order to buy new ones from DSI, just as a matter of having new instruments with new parts, since my instruments are five or six years old by now and I intended to keep them for years to come. I think this is justifiable, since I very seldom buy instruments. The Prophet REV2 is an opportunity to do just that, plus get a whole bunch of additional features. It's true, though, that it won't be like getting a new instrument, but only a very familiar one with a few perks. Still, that's good enough.
If you review all the posts in this thread, you'll see that a number of people have repeatedly expressed the same sentiments:
"Is the new really better than the old? Has the new omitted something from the old that I liked? Is it worth the change, or should I continue with my trusty old Prophet '08?"
Some folks have even expressed disappointment with the Rev2's smaller screen and it's original awkwardness in copying layers. So be it. These sorts of debates always follow from an older popular instrument being revised and updated. They're reasonable questions and concerns that lead to interesting discussions about both instruments. And then, some folks dig in their heels and say,
"I'm not budging; the old is much better than the new."
Again, so be it. I'm not one of those persons, but I'm not upset that he or she has such a firm opinion. I sympathize with both positions. Some times it is easier to continue with the old, at least for a while, rather than buy something new that may have problems. The old has matured and been vetted, so that keeping the old means minimal problems. That makes sense to me, and it's one of the reasons I never buy an instrument when it is first released. Rather, I wait about a year until everything about the instrument has been resolved, because I want to spend my time making music, not posting about problems and arranging for updates or repairs. And then there is the concern that, thanks to an omnipresent marketing, we are always hearing and reading about the latest "new and improved" product that we absolutely "must have". I think it's entirely prudent to have at least a modicum of suspicion about such claims and not succumb to the hype.
To conclude my side of the debate: In my opinion, the Rev2 is a substantially improved version of the Prophet '08. But...the Prophet '08 remains a superb synthesizer that can meet many synthesists' needs for years to come. I look forward to replacing my older instruments with the newer ones, however much time that may require. But until then, I will be quite happy making music with the older ones. And I expect to continue posting enthusiastic comments about the Prophet '08 - an instrument, I'm certain, that many synthesists will choose to keep, in spite of the existence of the "new and improved" Rev2.
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I can see how for some people the Rev2 crosses a threshold that places it in their like/want list, and whereas the Prophet ’08 did not cross that threshold.
Being personally familiar with a Rev2 and not a Prophet ’08, and knowing all their published specification differences, I feel confident in asserting that a Prophet ’08 would spectacularly meet my needs met by the Rev2.
Different people, different perspectives.
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I can see how for some people the Rev2 crosses a threshold that places it in their like/want list, and whereas the Prophet ’08 did not cross that threshold.
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Different people, different perspectives.
Totally. If one has no outboard effects, or wants to pull off MASSIVE bass in addition to poly, or is accustomed to the polyphony afforded by typical virtual analog, the rev 2 is the only way to go.
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If one...wants to pull off MASSIVE bass in addition to poly...the Rev2 is the only way to go.
Presuming, of course, that one has the sixteen-voice version of the Rev2. The Prophet '08 can make exceptionally massive bass on one end, while having a four-voice polyphonic patch on the other.
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And I'm part of the school that defines most massive bass comes from simplicity. Simple wave, strong signal. (I.e., sans sub-osc.) But, I'm in the primary years of school. ... To me, complexity in bass can lead to interesting bass, for sure -- in an "orchestral" sense; even if not orchestral music.
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When the Prophet '08 is set to Layer Mode, you have four oscillators at your disposal - three for the main pitch, and one for a sub octave - and all of these can use pulse width modulation if you like. To understate the truth, I've never felt limited with this arrangement. I understand that the Rev2 offers even more, and that's great. But the P'08 is in no way inadequate for producing monstrous basses, both simple and complex.
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An interesting comparison video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97lWx_NwdKE
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An interesting comparison video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97lWx_NwdKE
Thanks! The video confirms that there's not a lot of difference between the basic guts of the two instruments.
The Rev 2 had it over the P-08 on one patch because it had more voices. Otherwise, I did not hear an appreciable difference.
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I've listened to this video over and over again, and every time the Prophet '08 sounds so much better than the Rev2. It's annoying.
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Listening to the comparison video, yes there are subtle differenses, no doubt, but I would have expected that for several reasons. The first, and most obvious is that the guy is playing presets live... his exact playing will never be the same each time, even if it's the same keys or melody... things like velocity and onset/duration/release of the keys will all have an influence on the percieved sound.
On top of this, there will most likely also be some component differences in the analog signal chain. The REV2 most likely do not use the same OpAmps, resistors, caps etc. and maybe even the curcuits of these has changed a bit, even if the functionality is the same as the original, and these small deviances will lead to slight changes in the tone between the two... they are both analog machines afterall.
But to decide weather one or the other sounds "better" is certainly a personal thing... you may be used to the original more, and find that better as a result... you may have the new one, and are used to it's tone, and find that better... not to mention the added polyphony and FX may make you prefer that one.
I really do not understand why anyone would even compare these two... if you like the first version better, then just get that one, it's even cheaper now than before the REV2 arrived. To be honest, I'm kind of tired of all these comparison video's between instruments, even more when they compare completely diffrerent synths, and always want f***** everything to sound like a MOOG... if you want the MOOG sound, go get a MOOG! ::)
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I really do not understand why anyone would even compare these two... if you like the first version better, then just get that one, it's even cheaper now than before the REV2 arrived. To be honest, I'm kind of tired of all these comparison video's between instruments, even more when they compare completely diffrerent synths, and always want f***** everything to sound like a MOOG... if you want the MOOG sound, go get a MOOG! ::)
Who said anything about the Moog sound? That topic didn't come up, nor does it have anything to do with these two instruments.
What I think the video suggests is that dumping a patch from one instrument to the other doesn't produce identical results. Surely that's of interest to some folks. But the comments below the video are also of interest to those who do like comparison videos, and especially those who are wondering if they should spend the money to replace a P'08 with a Rev2. That's a valid question, even if you don't understand it. And it is the topic of this thread.
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There does seem to be a reoccurring theme of your posts... Are you sure you're not trying to justify to yourself being content with what you have? Reminds me of someone who tried to argue that their MODX sounded so much better than the Montage.
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I really do not understand why anyone would even compare these two... if you like the first version better, then just get that one, it's even cheaper now than before the REV2 arrived. To be honest, I'm kind of tired of all these comparison video's between instruments, even more when they compare completely diffrerent synths, and always want f***** everything to sound like a MOOG... if you want the MOOG sound, go get a MOOG! ::)
Who said anything about the Moog sound? That topic didn't come up, nor does it have anything to do with these two instruments.
What I think the video suggests is that dumping a patch from one instrument to the other doesn't produce identical results. Surely that's of interest to some folks. But the comments below the video are also of interest to those who do like comparison videos, and especially those who are wondering if they should spend the money to replace a P'08 with a Rev2. That's a valid question, even if you don't understand it. And it is the topic of this thread.
Honestly, this is just embarrassing to read. You're completely full of yourself.
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There does seem to be a reoccurring theme of your posts... Are you sure you're not trying to justify to yourself being content with what you have? Reminds me of someone who tried to argue that their MODX sounded so much better than the Montage.
The channel owner who made the above video said the patches "were all loaded to Rev2 from the Prophet 08 via the Soundtower libarian/editor - i.e. the settings were exactly the same." And in responding to a critic, he also said this:
"DSI actually shared this video through their social media channels (twitter, facebook) - do you think they would have shared it if they thought the comparison was (in your words) 'not properly done'?"
One video doesn't say it all, but it might say something.
It doesn't matter which instrument I have in the end. I'm happy with the Prophet '08, and I expect I'll be happy or even happier with the Rev2. But I would prefer to do a side-by-side comparison.
I value the opinions expressed here, especially the detailed comments by Fuseball and Jason. But I don't think this debate should be discouraged. Otherwise, it's as if this forum allows only the popular view to be discussed.
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I really do not understand why anyone would even compare these two... if you like the first version better, then just get that one, it's even cheaper now than before the REV2 arrived. To be honest, I'm kind of tired of all these comparison video's between instruments, even more when they compare completely diffrerent synths, and always want f***** everything to sound like a MOOG... if you want the MOOG sound, go get a MOOG! ::)
Who said anything about the Moog sound? That topic didn't come up, nor does it have anything to do with these two instruments.
What I think the video suggests is that dumping a patch from one instrument to the other doesn't produce identical results. Surely that's of interest to some folks. But the comments below the video are also of interest to those who do like comparison videos, and especially those who are wondering if they should spend the money to replace a P'08 with a Rev2. That's a valid question, even if you don't understand it. And it is the topic of this thread.
It was an analogy... that's why I mentioned the MOOG sound... it's the same with P08 and REV2... if you like the 08 sound, then just get that one instead of complaining that the REV2 only sound 99,9% like it... and I was talking in general terms, not at anyone specific... but people who keep complaining that one synth does not sound like another are just getting a bit anoying really... and the MOOG is a good example of this... that's why i used it as an example... it's one of those synths that many keep comparing to other synths, as if it was the god of synths or something.
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There does seem to be a reoccurring theme of your posts... Are you sure you're not trying to justify to yourself being content with what you have? Reminds me of someone who tried to argue that their MODX sounded so much better than the Montage.
The channel owner who made the above video said the patches "were all loaded to Rev2 from the Prophet 08 via the Soundtower libarian/editor - i.e. the settings were exactly the same." And in responding to a critic, he also said this:
"DSI actually shared this video through their social media channels (twitter, facebook) - do you think they would have shared it if they thought the comparison was (in your words) 'not properly done'?"
One video doesn't say it all, but it might say something.
It doesn't matter which instrument I have in the end. I'm happy with the Prophet '08, and I expect I'll be happy or even happier with the Rev2. But I would prefer to do a side-by-side comparison.
I value the opinions expressed here, especially the detailed comments by Fuseball and Jason. But I don't think this debate should be discouraged. Otherwise, it's as if this forum allows only the popular view to be discussed.
But still, he is playing the two synths live... if he was to do a FAIR comparison, he would have recorded his live performance via MIDI, and made sure that it's the exact same sequence with exact same velocities etc... otherwise the very VERY little differences you can hear could partially be due to deviances in the playing. Also, is there a written consensus that just because Sequential post something, that then it is per definition "done right"? ... with deviances so subtle as those in the demos, I'd say that they could very well be partly down to different velocities, unless velocity was completely turned off... and there is no information on this in the videos, so who knows.
Another thing that I noted personaly was that especially sounds that involve FM and ones with significant amounts of resonance was also the sounds that sounded most different... this is logical since these curcuits are usually quite unstable pitch wise... there are even subtle deviances in regard to these features per voice on a single instrument, so it would only be reasonable that this would create some differences between the two instruments.
Honestly I do not see anything wrong in comparing the two... even deciding your own favourite (that's everyones right)... it's when users start to call one or the other "better than the other" in general terms that I have a tendency to get a bit annoyed... and I see this trend quite often when the old and new are being compared... those who (for some strange reason) have the older versions, almost always seem to favor their older device... they compare the two with the older one being the reference.... i mean... why ask if the REV2 sounds the same, why not ask if the P08 sounds the same as the REV2?
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I'm not complaining; I'm only comparing. It only makes sense with two instruments that have such a close relationship. One is a reference point for the other. If I were complaining, then I'd be criticizing the Rev2. If you want to see complaints, read the comments under that video. I've made no such harsh comments.
You may not like comparisons, but others do. They can be helpful is assessing an instrument.
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I'm not complaining; I'm only comparing. It only makes sense with two instruments that have such a close relationship. One is a reference point for the other. If I were complaining, then I'd be criticizing the Rev2. If you want to see complaints, read the comments under that video. I've made no such harsh comments.
You may not like comparisons, but others do. They can be helpful is assessing an instrument.
Not complaining!? ... then what exactly did you mean by saying that the P08 sounds SO much better than the REV2, it's anoying? ;D
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I'm not complaining; I'm only comparing. It only makes sense with two instruments that have such a close relationship. One is a reference point for the other. If I were complaining, then I'd be criticizing the Rev2. If you want to see complaints, read the comments under that video. I've made no such harsh comments.
You may not like comparisons, but others do. They can be helpful is assessing an instrument.
And please... I do NOT have a problem with comparisons... but why is it irritating you, that the REV2 does not sound the same as the P08? ... What exactly is it that you feel is so much worse with the REV2 sound? ... I'm having a hard time figuring out, if it's because there is a certain character about the 08 that you like better, or if you are just so accustomed to your own '08s that this is what is driving your opinion? ... are you irritated over the REV2 tone in general, or just that it does not sound exactly like the 08?
Personally I never bought a REV2 with the intent of getting a machine that sounded completely like the 08, I asumed it would be very close though, and I do feel that it is... I actually bought it because it can do so much more than the 08... Personally the subtle differences are so small, that I do not mind at all... i did not buy it to reproduce sounds from the 08 at all either, I bought it to create sounds that the 08 was not able to produce, otherwise i would definitely have gotten the 08 instead, as it's a lot cheaper these days.
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Why ask if the REV2 sounds the same, why not ask if the P08 sounds the same as the REV2?
That's what I am asking - if the two have the same sonic character.
I've worked with the Prophet '08 for a full ten years now. I've read all the criticisms about its filter and this and that, but I don't care. I love the sound and have made it my own. It suits my music just right. But the Rev2 adds a few features that I've long desired. I'm thrilled. Only, I want to maintain the types of patches with the same sonic character as the older instrument. It's that simple. So, when someone comes along with a video claiming the two instruments sound substantially different, it gets my attention. It got the attention of quite a few other people also, who claimed the same in the comments section.
This is not science; it's musical opinion. But it's a portion of the mass of information that goes into making an online decision. Now are all those people wrong who have the unpopular view? I honestly don't know, but I do consider their input.
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I'm not complaining; I'm only comparing. It only makes sense with two instruments that have such a close relationship. One is a reference point for the other. If I were complaining, then I'd be criticizing the Rev2. If you want to see complaints, read the comments under that video. I've made no such harsh comments.
You may not like comparisons, but others do. They can be helpful is assessing an instrument.
Not complaining!? ... then what exactly did you mean by saying that the P08 sounds SO much better than the REV2, it's anoying? ;D
Let's not split hairs over words. I've said the P'08 sounds better in one video, but I don't believe I ever said the Rev2 sounds bad. I've never heard the Rev2 sound bad. Why would I be saving up for a lousy-sounding instrument? My flattering words have been all over the Rev2 Youtube videos from the day it first came out. But if my use of the word "better" really annoys you, I'm sorry, but we just have to live with each other here. It's not the first time we've disagreed, and it won't be the last.
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Why ask if the REV2 sounds the same, why not ask if the P08 sounds the same as the REV2?
That's what I am asking - if the two have the same sonic character.
I've worked with the Prophet '08 for a full ten years now. I've read all the criticisms about its filter and this and that, but I don't care. I love the sound and have made it my own. It suits my music just right. But the Rev2 adds a few features that I've long desired. I'm thrilled. Only, I want to maintain the types of patches with the same sonic character as the older instrument. It's that simple. So, when someone comes along with a video claiming the two instruments sound substantially different, it gets my attention. It got the attention of quite a few other people also, who claimed the same.
This is not science; it's musical opinion. But it's a portion of the mass of information that goes into making an entirely online decision.
If it sounds "substancially different" is exactly a personal opinion... I for one do not feel that it sound substancially different... it has some subtle nuance differences, sure, but I would never have expected anything else of a replica of an analog synth.
I'm aware that you want the same sonic character, especially if you want to use your old presets, and not want to tweak them a little... because I really think that this is all that really matters when it comes to those differencies... don't forget that it's EXACTLY the same chip in both machines, so there is NO difference in what comes out of them... it has to be changes to curcuits AROUND the chips, and the digital control engine that creates the differences... thus, the only thing that might have to be done is tweak the old sounds a bit... maybe the Audio Mod range deviates a bit, maybe the cutoff or resonance... small tweaks might get the excact same character back, you don't know until you actually tried that.
If you just want to be able to load in your old presets, and have them sound 100% like the 08, then i can understand your disappointment... but that just do not make the REV2 sound "substancially worse" in my opinion... it just sounds a tiny bit different... that's it... I'm perfectly sure, that if you forgot about those nitpicking comparisons of that video, and actually TRIED a REV2 out, creating something from scratch, that you really would not care at all... but I guess we won't know if that is the case until you've tried that ;)
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All good information. I appreciate it, Razmo.
I won't be dumping any programs from the Prophet '08 to the Rev2. Not do I ever use factory programs. When I get a Rev2, I'll consider it a fresh start and design all new programs from its panel. And if I'm satisfied with the results, then out will go my P'08s.
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I'm not complaining; I'm only comparing. It only makes sense with two instruments that have such a close relationship. One is a reference point for the other. If I were complaining, then I'd be criticizing the Rev2. If you want to see complaints, read the comments under that video. I've made no such harsh comments.
You may not like comparisons, but others do. They can be helpful is assessing an instrument.
Not complaining!? ... then what exactly did you mean by saying that the P08 sounds SO much better than the REV2, it's anoying? ;D
Let's not split hairs over words. I've said the P'08 sounds better in one video, but I don't believe I ever said the Rev2 sounds bad. I've never heard the Rev2 sound bad. Why would I be saving up for a lousy-sounding instrument? My flattering words have been all over the Rev2 Youtube videos from the day it first came out. But if my use of the word "better" really annoys you, I'm sorry, but we just have to live with each other here. It's not the first time we've disagreed, and it won't be the last.
Actually I could not care less what you feel about the REV2 or the 08 for that matter, and neither should you... I'm not a person that is moved by others personal opinions on something at all, I'm used to the fact that people think and have different opinions than myself... why would I even care, it makes no sense.
But this is a public discussion, and it triggered me because just as you felt the urge to say your opinion, so did I... let's just accept that our opinions do not match and let it stay at that.
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All good information. I appreciate it, Razmo.
I won't be dumping any programs from the Prophet '08 to the Rev2. Not do I ever use factory programs. When I get a Rev2, I'll consider it a fresh start and design all new programs from its panel. And if I'm satisfied with the results, then out will go my P'08s.
in that case I hardly think you'll get disappointed... maybe that's what triggered me in the first place because a "stupid" comparison demo might potentially stray you away from a synth that you may actually come to like better than your current P08... I've had the P08 as well in the past... the only thing that i noticed when transfering old presets was that they sounded lower in volume than the REV2 presets... they actually sounded boring in comparison, most likely because they had no FX on them as well... but I do not remember them as sounding "wrong" or anything... but I also did not make any strict comparisons like in that video above... I think you're doing yourself a disservice by listening to it, to be honest... get your hands on a REV2, and try it out... if you then come back and tell me that you still feel it's worse than your 08, then I'll take my words back...
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And by the way.. .sorry if I may sound harsh from time to time... but I have a tendency to say things directly... at least I'm not hiding anything instead ;) ... we all have the right to disaggree and have different opinions... for some, there can be no lesser than the 100% comparison in sound... for others, a small deviance is ok... it depends... if I was to judge a replica of the old Eminent 310U organ with a SmallStone phaser pedal, I'd probably also be nitpicking a lot more... i guess it depend on a lot of things how critical we are when we compare something.
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No problem. I actually prefer directness.
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That's what I am asking - if the two have the same sonic character.
They absolutely do.
I won't be dumping any programs from the Prophet '08 to the Rev2. Not do I ever use factory programs. When I get a Rev2, I'll consider it a fresh start and design all new programs from its panel. And if I'm satisfied with the results, then out will go my P'08s.
In that case you shouldn't worry the slightest.
Razmo already mentioned a couple of points about the comparison video that can be regarded as problematic, one of them being different velocity responses. Another problem is that the panning settings weren't transmitted correctly. I'm not sure right now whether that's a matter of different parameter value resolutions, but you often hear the Rev2 with a reduced stereo image or even in mono in this video, which automatically causes a flatter audio result. That, on top of slightly different Audio Mod and filter responses, is all the difference I can hear. The latter can easily be adjusted by ear.
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I apologize if I seem 'late' to this topic...
I can state that I have a P'08 and a REV2 (Rack - 16 voice) - and also Razmo's soundset for the REV2. Which is quite good, BTW.
I'm selling the rack REV2 16-voice soon (PM me if interested - only reasonable offers will be replied to).
I've found that:
- The P'08 has much more low end. And comes 'alive' with a good reverb, like the Boss RV-500 that I have
- I don't need the other FX much, they tend to diffuse the sound and 'muddy' it
- The additional routing options and wave shaping require much more attention to detail (effort), for questionable gains
- The LCD display is nice, however it becomes much more confusing to ferret out 'what controls what' without constant reference
- The 'sequence' options are REALLY hard to ferret out without the LED' s that the 'keyed' version has (mine is the module).
Summary: Part of this assessment is that I'm just 'old.' ;) I have a Kronos 2 also - and I love my DSI P'08! But I don't see much 'value-add' with the added expense of the 16-voice REV2 module, and all it's trimmings - that I can't do with similar or less effort on the Kronos 2 and P'08 'knob-ages.'
All of the aforementioned, is strictly my own experience and opinion - and nowhere near exhaustive, of the capabilities of the mentioned instruments. I go on record as a forever Dave Smith/Sequential fan!!!!
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- The 'sequence' options are REALLY hard to ferret out without the LED' s that the 'keyed' version has (mine is the module).
The key version doesn't have any LEDs for the sequencer either, unfortunately. I also miss the LEDs for the voices like the P08, but as there were 8 on the P08 which would have to be 16 on the Rev2, it's an understandable omission.
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I apologize if I seem 'late' to this topic...
I can state that I have a P'08 and a REV2 (Rack - 16 voice) - and also Razmo's soundset for the REV2. Which is quite good, BTW.
I'm selling the rack REV2 16-voice soon (PM me if interested - only reasonable offers will be replied to).
I've found that:
- The P'08 has much more low end. And comes 'alive' with a good reverb, like the Boss RV-500 that I have
- I don't need the other FX much, they tend to diffuse the sound and 'muddy' it
- The additional routing options and wave shaping require much more attention to detail (effort), for questionable gains
- The LCD display is nice, however it becomes much more confusing to ferret out 'what controls what' without constant reference
- The 'sequence' options are REALLY hard to ferret out without the LED' s that the 'keyed' version has (mine is the module).
Summary: Part of this assessment is that I'm just 'old.' ;) I have a Kronos 2 also - and I love my DSI P'08! But I don't see much 'value-add' with the added expense of the 16-voice REV2 module, and all it's trimmings - that I can't do with similar or less effort on the Kronos 2 and P'08 'knob-ages.'
All of the aforementioned, is strictly my own experience and opinion - and nowhere near exhaustive, of the capabilities of the mentioned instruments. I go on record as a forever Dave Smith/Sequential fan!!!!
It's inevitable that some will prefer one and some will prefer the other. And that you have both makes your comments especially valuable. There's no need to apologize for your opinions and conclusions merely because they're the less popular view.
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If my P-08 breaks beyond repair, I will probably replace it with a Rev 2. The additional features and voices would be enough to justify the upgrade. If one puts the additional modulation/effects aside for a moment on the Rev 2, they sound about as similar as two analog synths can get. However, the additional features and voices on the Rev 2 are not enough to convince me to sell my P-08 for the Rev 2. Not sure what bells and whistles would entice me to do so, but currently a P-08 to Rev.2 is not a "must do" for me.
Both of them are basic workhorse synths. I think that one of them would necessarily be in the arsenal of any serious synth player. Much more so than a P-06 or OB-6.
I hope that DS appreciates the essential character of the P-08/Rev 2 and will not change the essence in future Revs.
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Hey I dropped off for a while but I'm back now. Sacred Synthesis, you had made a comment that the Prophet '08 sounded much better than the Rev 2 in the comparison. I listened to the video and found that the Rev 2 sounds were pretty much mono and did not have any pan spread, which made comparison kind of tricky. But did you hear any other differences? I find your patches are very subtle and beautiful in your compositions, you must have a discerning ear.
A reviewer named GeoSynth said that the Rev2 had better "low end" than the P'08. Here's the (long) review:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjUZof95eAg
Sometimes I find the mid bass of the P'08 to be a little lackluster. A bit of punch here would make the synth more poppy and full. I suppose I could EQ it that way.
For Christmas I got a real set of headphones (Etymotic ER4SR) and I started to hear what the P'08 really sounds like. A few days ago I figured out how to create sounds that I love on my P'08. It's all about LFOs set to around 20. Modulate something say oscillator mix, pulse width, anything to get a very small timbre change. A little pan spread and I'm in bliss. Two oscillators can do a whole lot that way.
So naturally I thought about getting a Rev2 because GAS. Well specifically because of the ability to modulate the timbre of the oscillators. Then one oscillator could do what I need two for now. Add another 8 voices and I could do it in stereo. So yeah, I'm seriously thinking about a Rev2. The other thing is that I can't get a P'08 module for less than $1K. If I sold my P'08 and bought a Rev2 I would pay about the same price and get effects and a better keyboard... But better mid bass would push me over the edge. But is it real?
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Hey I dropped off for a while but I'm back now. Sacred Synthesis, you had made a comment that the Prophet '08 sounded much better than the Rev 2 in the comparison. I listened to the video and found that the Rev 2 sounds were pretty much mono and did not have any pan spread, which made comparison kind of tricky. But did you hear any other differences? I find your patches are very subtle and beautiful in your compositions, you must have a discerning ear.
A reviewer named GeoSynth said that the Rev2 had better "low end" than the P'08. Here's the (long) review:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjUZof95eAg
Sometimes I find the mid bass of the P'08 to be a little lackluster. A bit of punch here would make the synth more poppy and full. I suppose I could EQ it that way.
For Christmas I got a real set of headphones (Etymotic ER4SR) and I started to hear what the P'08 really sounds like. A few days ago I figured out how to create sounds that I love on my P'08. It's all about LFOs set to around 20. Modulate something say oscillator mix, pulse width, anything to get a very small timbre change. A little pan spread and I'm in bliss. Two oscillators can do a whole lot that way.
So naturally I thought about getting a Rev2 because GAS. Well specifically because of the ability to modulate the timbre of the oscillators. Then one oscillator could do what I need two for now. Add another 8 voices and I could do it in stereo. So yeah, I'm seriously thinking about a Rev2. The other thing is that I can't get a P'08 module for less than $1K. If I sold my P'08 and bought a Rev2 I would pay about the same price and get effects and a better keyboard... But better mid bass would push me over the edge. But is it real?
I've not been able to do an A/B but I find the the differences subtle for the most part. But, of course, there's the sub osc that can deliver more bass if you need it. And if you need to you can layer another complementary patch with more bass. Add just a hint of drive from the fx section and you can get an even fuller patch. Well worth the upgrade IMO.
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Thanks @guyaguy! Sometimes a subtle difference makes all the difference, but that isn't so true in the mid bass, more usually in the highs.
When I read your post I realized that I'm not doing a couple of things to make the patch fuller in the bass, specifically making sure my LFOs are sync'd to the keypress. I may not be giving the P'08 a fair shake here.
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Thanks, Tumble2K. A number of people made the same comment about the stereo spread in the P'08-Rev2 comparison video. Yeah, that could be one of the problems, but the channel owner did say he copied the patches from one instrument to the other. It says something about the dump feature.
I've made a number of patches with my P'08s that use four LFOs of modulation. These are often sounds that you would never guess required so much. There's more to a decent string patch than one would expect. But I never use wobble effects, as in a very slow vibrato. To my ears, that sounds unmusical and unstable.
Anyway, until one of my PEKs sells, I can't get a Rev2, and the long wait has made me wonder a hundred times whether or not I really need one. Ideally, I'd like to have a P'08 and Rev2 at the same time to make careful comparisons. My main concern is that the raw sonic character of the former will be lacking in the latter. I'm especially dependent on a solo sawtooth patch, which I think the P'08 does exceptionally well. As for EQ, I'm always having to trim back the P'08's bottom end on my mixer.
The Rev2 obviously has quite a few more features than its predecessor. But honestly, I've never heard a Rev2 YT video that made me say, "Wow! Now there's a fabulous sound that I can't make with my old P'08." So, I'm not highly motivated to make the change. Otherwise, I'd sell the old instrument to fund the new one.
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I've made a number of patches with my P'08s that use four LFOs of modulation. These are often sounds that you would never guess required so much. There's more to a decent string patch than one would expect. But I never use wobble effects, as in a very slow vibrato. To my ears, that sounds unmusical and unstable.
Interesting what you say about the LFOs. I have not yet heard a good string patch on the P'08. They all sound synthetic to me. I think there's a type of modulation that that's missing but I don't know what it is. I've been using sub 1Hz LFOs to create movement, but a tiny tiny amount, just enough to make the timbre not static. I don't think it makes for a classical sounding instrument, but it's interesting and satisfying. I will experiment with vibrato speeds (I'd say 3 or 4 Hz). Oh and one other thing, I only modulate timbre changing parameters at sub 1Hz. think it's a bad idea to modulate the oscillator frequency at that rate (maybe you taught me that too). That creates a high school orchestra effect.
Oh and back to the topic at hand, I remember you once telling me I needed to get the P'08 module so that I could experience to the true potential of the instrument. I haven't forgotten, but I haven't done it either. The Rev2 is probably the cheapest way for me to get 16 voices that I can layer and separate left from right while still getting 8 voices. That must be incredible. If I get a P'08 module I will need to have a mixer. So a Rev2 is good for a small studio or an only synth.
I probably need to learn about making bass sounds correctly. Maybe the trick is to use the two oscillators at exactly the same frequency... I think the DCOs will be synchronized. I will play around with it tonight. I could layer and pan both sounds to opposite sides (DC modulation should work, right?) Or I need a mixer... sigh. Maybe I need to move this discussion back to the P'08 forum.
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Oh and back to the topic at hand, I remember you once telling me I needed to get the P'08 module so that I could experience to the true potential of the instrument. I haven't forgotten, but I haven't done it either. The Rev2 is probably the cheapest way for me to get 16 voices that I can layer and separate left from right while still getting 8 voices. That must be incredible. If I get a P'08 module I will need to have a mixer. So a Rev2 is good for a small studio or an only synth.
Yes, that's true. It was the first thing I liked when I first saw the specs of the Rev2. It amounts to a different programming experience, though. I like having the two instruments at hand. There's no need to switch layers as you're designing a sound.
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I remember someone saying somewhere on this forum that the display was a bit small compared with the Prophet'08 display and harder to read. That is a concern for me. I use the position of the potentiometers to dial up the sound but then fine tune based on the value on the display. It would not work if I can't see the value. I don't really care about the parameter itself (heck I know which knob I'm turning, right?)
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For anyone wanting wide binaural stereo sounds (like Poly Evolver with Output Pan set to LxxxxR), using the stack mode on the Rev2 with each layer hard panned left and right gives you a huge stereo field similar to Evolver, and other binaural architecture synths.
I often create a patch on layer A, then copy it to layer B, stack and hard pan it L/R, then make minor adjustments to fine tuning of oscillators or other parameters to give it some subtle animation between the left and right channels. The result is a huge stereo field of sound... works great for pads, string ensembles, horn ensembles, organs and many other instrument types.
You just have to set Pan Mode to Fixed for the Program, and use one mod slot on each layer, with a DC source routed to pan destination. -32 to hard pan a layer left, and +32 to hard pan a layer right.
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Minor addition to guyaguy's great tips, the HP Filter in the FX section can also be used to enhance the bass. With lower amounts of resonance applied it boosts whatever frequency the cutoff is at, while filtering those lower than that. Since the FX are mono though, it works best with mono bass patches and such, as you can also route pitch to the HP cutoff and resonance. I also find it useful to modulate the level of the sub-osc with pitch, to boost it only at whatever frequency range needed. The sub-osc is more pronounced in the chosen registers while it doesn't muddy up the overall sound as much in the others, as when non-modulated, ie making the sound more "balanced" or "nuanced" perhaps is the right word.
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It's funny. I ended up being the very person I mocked in the beginning in that I've chosen to stay with the Prophet '08 rather than move on to the Rev2. Actually, it wasn't entirely my choice. Something went wrong in my effort to buy a Rev2 directly from Sequential. At that very moment, a reasonably Prophet '08 in superb condition appeared on Reverb, and I jumped. I have no regrets, but it looks as if I'll never get to play the instrument I did my utmost to get to its current state.
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I have both the Prophet 08 and the Rev-2 (16). Falling into the newer is better trap, I had rather forgotten about the Pro 08 until the other day when I switched it on and was surprised just how warm and lush it sounds in comparison to the Rev-2. The Pro 08 patch was Santiago, which I modified to take out any modulation apart from envelopes. Setting up the Rev-2 with the same settings, there are differences in the envelope timings and envelope amounts which I readjusted and approximated by ear.
Whilst I could get them close, the Pro 08 had much more bass and sounded much warmer. Adding low EQ and Studer A800 saturation to the Rev-2 got them very close to each other. It's a shame that the Rev-2 doesn't sound as good on it's own but the fix is a simple and the extra polyphony is definitely appreciated.