The Official Sequential/Oberheim Forum
SEQUENTIAL/DSI => OB-6 => Topic started by: autoy on January 19, 2017, 06:04:05 AM
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Hi, I've been playing my OB-6 stand-alone since I got it and now I've hooked it up to logic with the MIDI local off, as mandatory. I'm noticing a whole lot of hanging and freezing on the OB-6 upon receiving MIDI from the sequencer. Sometimes it's caused by hanging notes, some others because of NRPN streams. Sometimes it even freezes the whole unit and I have to restart the OB-6. I have tried with either NRPN and CC and it's the same. I've set the internal clock output to off to make sure it's not the culprit. Any other similar experiences? So far many other Prophet-6 owners have reported the same problem with their units.
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Hi, I've been playing my OB-6 stand-alone since I got it and now I've hooked it up to logic with the MIDI local off, as mandatory. I'm noticing a whole lot of hanging and freezing on the OB-6 upon receiving MIDI from the sequencer. Sometimes it's caused by hanging notes, some others because of NRPN streams. Sometimes it even freezes the whole unit and I have to restart the OB-6. I have tried with either NRPN and CC and it's the same. I've set the internal clock output to off to make sure it's not the culprit. Any other similar experiences? So far many other Prophet-6 owners have reported the same problem with their units.
I had similar issues with the P6 (haven't run midi to OB6 yet). I'm also a Logic user.
I remember my issues were with the sequencer starting and stopping a lot from me bouncing between bars and hitting play. other stuff went downhill quick after that.
Have you tried to disable the send start/stop in the external midi plugin on the track? That cleared it up for me, along with setting channel to something like 3.
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Been making more tests. Oh man, this is terrible. Even the simplest MIDI configurations hang the OB-6 under Logic. I've tried disabling all reset messages in Logic Preferences, Midi clock source on the OB-6, MIDI Clock source on Logic., several channel combinations, start/stop messages on the track... Just about every combination. I end up always hanging the OB-6 MIDI input (I know this because when hanged I turn back the Local to ON and the synth engine still responds. And I do know MIDI comes in the sequencer and leaves it, as per my MIDI Monitor app).
The only workaround is to leave the Local ON while playing the OB-6 with a sequencer because at least you won't notice the MIDI IN port is borked. That is, until you want to play back your recorded MIDI to the OB-6, then you will have to reboot it to hear something. That is, till it hangs again. This is bad, really bad. Hope for a bug fix soon but I see Prophet-6 users have been suffering this for longer than we have :(
Bottom line: Logic Pro users + OB-6 is a NO GO for the time being.
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Been making more tests. Oh man, this is terrible. Even the simplest MIDI configurations hang the OB-6 under Logic. I've tried disabling all reset messages in Logic Preferences, Midi clock source on the OB-6, MIDI Clock source on Logic., several channel combinations, start/stop messages on the track... Just about every combination. I end up always hanging the OB-6 MIDI input (I know this because when hanged I turn back the Local to ON and the synth engine still responds. And I do know MIDI comes in the sequencer and leaves it, as per my MIDI Monitor app).
The only workaround is to leave the Local ON while playing the OB-6 with a sequencer because at least you won't notice the MIDI IN port is borked. That is, until you want to play back your recorded MIDI to the OB-6, then you will have to reboot it to hear something. That is, till it hangs again. This is bad, really bad. Hope for a bug fix soon but I see Prophet-6 users have been suffering this for longer than we have :(
Bottom line: Logic Pro users + OB-6 is a NO GO for the time being.
What's the minimal that you need to do to cause this? I'm going to fire up logic tonight and test too.
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What's the minimal that you need to do to cause this? I'm going to fire up logic tonight and test too.
Really, not much. Just one midi track in Logic, just turn off clock sync for the time being, set your OB-6 control mode to NRPN, local off and fire away. Start editing your sounds and eventually you'll get no MIDI IN in your OB-6. It seems specially frequent when playing long notes.
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What's the minimal that you need to do to cause this? I'm going to fire up logic tonight and test too.
Really, not much. Just one midi track in Logic, just turn off clock sync for the time being, set your OB-6 control mode to NRPN, local off and fire away. Start editing your sounds and eventually you'll get no MIDI IN in your OB-6. It seems specially frequent when playing long notes.
I did all that and more...but I think I know why it's fine:
Just realized I'm using a unit with version 1.0.0. Do I update? Crap.
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What's the minimal that you need to do to cause this? I'm going to fire up logic tonight and test too.
Really, not much. Just one midi track in Logic, just turn off clock sync for the time being, set your OB-6 control mode to NRPN, local off and fire away. Start editing your sounds and eventually you'll get no MIDI IN in your OB-6. It seems specially frequent when playing long notes.
I did all that and more...but I think I know why it's fine:
Just realized I'm using a unit with version 1.0.0. Do I update? Crap.
If I was certain that's the fix I'd downgrade in a heartbeat, if that's even possible.
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What's the minimal that you need to do to cause this? I'm going to fire up logic tonight and test too.
Really, not much. Just one midi track in Logic, just turn off clock sync for the time being, set your OB-6 control mode to NRPN, local off and fire away. Start editing your sounds and eventually you'll get no MIDI IN in your OB-6. It seems specially frequent when playing long notes.
I did all that and more...but I think I know why it's fine:
Just realized I'm using a unit with version 1.0.0. Do I update? Crap.
If I was certain that's the fix I'd downgrade in a heartbeat, if that's even possible.
I wonder if you could contact their support for prior firmware. There is a dedicated boot loader to flash it whatever, I think.
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What if you try setting MIDI clock to "nSS" (last one) and MIDI control to "on"? As I understand it, the last option is to disable external control (i.e. Should stay On for desktop modules at all times).
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What if you try setting MIDI clock to "nSS" (last one) and MIDI control to "on"? As I understand it, the last option is to disable external control (i.e. Should stay On for desktop modules at all times).
No changes, as predicted because the issue happens regardless of sync setup, even with internal clock.
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After upgrading to 1.4.1 I can confirm this is happening EXACTLY as autoy is describing.
Everything was fine with 1.0.0.
With latest OS, simply adjusting wave shape on a VCO to square and adjusting PW on long-sustained notes will block all midi/usb data coming in. you have to restart the unit.
Here are some steps that usually do it (with Logic):
- Use first factory preset
- Set MIDI clock to whatever (I use NSS usually)
- Create an external MIDI track - or just a Software Instrument track, using an external midi as instrument (insert)
- playback long chords with some higher note changes (keep fundamental bass note looping)
- begin to modify the VCO (either) wave shape. try to sweep to square and then adjust PW
You will get the last notes played as a constant (regardless of new notes coming in). Even if you stop the DAW. The only fix is to turn it off/on (in my experience so far).
I was hoping the OP had defective unit as I wanted the velocity curves in latest update. But now my unit is having the same issues.
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Yep, same as me, I upgraded because of velocity curves and found the bug. At least I'm glad I'm not the only one, I'm sure this'll get sorted. To the rest of OB-6 users: don't upgrade to 1.4.1 until there's a fix.
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Now that same procedure i listed above doesn't do it, but changing a patch did. Ignore my specifics with wave shape, etc, just tinker around with the unit while long notes/chords play.
If you have a keyboard version, then local midi will still work, but external midi will be dead until restarted. As a software developer, it's better to find reproducible steps, and this doesn't have clear cut causes. I hope DSI team can check commit differences between the OS's and see if something modified is relevant to this.
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Note:
It maybe unrelated, but the 2nd to last time this happened (midi latch/lockup), i checked the globals.
Master Tune was set to -50. Previously, I both transpose and tune were at 0. The rest of the global parameters were how I set them or default.
I checked MIDI message log output from DAW and the only thing transmitting was raw pitch notes (no mod or other).
Does feel like a naive witch hunt, but maybe it helps DSI.
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No witch hunt at all but rather a critical issue on an expensive equipment that needs to be acknowledged and fixed. It would help that someone with access to other DAWs other than Logic and OS 1.4.1 could reproduce the issue.
Other than that, it happens always and regardless of OB-6 global settings and Logic clock settings. I've only tested USB midi but I understand others have reproduced it with DIN midi too.
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No witch hunt at all but rather a critical issue on an expensive equipment that needs to be acknowledged and fixed. It would help that someone with access to other DAWs other than Logic and OS 1.4.1 could reproduce the issue.
Other than that, it happens always and regardless of OB-6 global settings and Logic clock settings. I've only tested USB midi but I understand others have reproduced it with DIN midi too.
When I first got the OB-6 module in December and hooked it up to Logic I had exactly the same problems. It just seemed to stop responding to USB. The only solution was to cycle power. It seemed to work better with MIDI DIN. However, the main thing I discovered was that Logic Reset messages included CC#4 Foot Control - this effectively set the OB volume to 0. I disabled that command went back to USB and it's been good since then. I've also been using the clock over USB as well and that seems fine.
I also altered the Global settings which may have made a difference:
MIDI Clock = nss
Clock Port = USB
Parameter Xmit = nr
Parameter Rec = nr
MIDI Control = On
Sysex = USB
MIDI out = MID (not sure if that option will make sense with the keyboard version)
I haven't had any issues with these settings.
As for clock messages I send Logic clock to MIDI Patchbay (by Pete Yandell) and then use MIDI Patchbay to route clocks to all my gear. This could be unrelated but it works better for me this way.
I also did the recalibration thing as I was getting desperate. It took several attempts as the OB-6 kept hanging on the filters. But on the 3rd attempt it worked. Again, probably unrelated.
BTW OB-6 module firmware is 1.1.4.
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No witch hunt at all but rather a critical issue on an expensive equipment that needs to be acknowledged and fixed. It would help that someone with access to other DAWs other than Logic and OS 1.4.1 could reproduce the issue.
Other than that, it happens always and regardless of OB-6 global settings and Logic clock settings. I've only tested USB midi but I understand others have reproduced it with DIN midi too.
When I first got the OB-6 module in December and hooked it up to Logic I had exactly the same problems. It just seemed to stop responding to USB. The only solution was to cycle power. It seemed to work better with MIDI DIN. However, the main thing I discovered was that Logic Reset messages included CC#4 Foot Control - this effectively set the OB volume to 0. I disabled that command went back to USB and it's been good since then. I've also been using the clock over USB as well and that seems fine.
I also altered the Global settings which may have made a difference:
MIDI Clock = nss
Clock Port = USB
Parameter Xmit = nr
Parameter Rec = nr
MIDI Control = On
Sysex = USB
MIDI out = MID (not sure if that option will make sense with the keyboard version)
I haven't had any issues with these settings.
As for clock messages I send Logic clock to MIDI Patchbay (by Pete Yandell) and then use MIDI Patchbay to route clocks to all my gear. This could be unrelated but it works better for me this way.
I also did the recalibration thing as I was getting desperate. It took several attempts as the OB-6 kept hanging on the filters. But on the 3rd attempt it worked. Again, probably unrelated.
BTW OB-6 module firmware is 1.1.4.
Nope, no reset messages sent at all by Logic, already checked that. As far as I'm aware it only affects the keyboard version running 1.1.4.1 update, no reports of module version with this issue yet.
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I've been using the din connection only because I had an issue with the USB earlier on. Can't remember what it was though. Recently I hooked up the USB again as I got the Soundtower editor and wanted to try it with that. So I have both DIN and USB connected. When I load an instance of the OB-6 in Nuendo it loads 3 tracks all at once.
1. A midi track set to OB-6 USB in and OB-6 USB out. This track is used for automating the OB parameters from the OB-6 interface itself. No controller involved. No other data.
2. Another midi track connected to my Controller in (Din) and OB-6 (Din) out. This track handles the midi notes only.
3. Finally an audio track for the inputs of the OB-6. This track serves as my monitor channel for the OB-6 in the Nuendo Mixer.
I am sending clock to the OB-6 via the DIN connection. I know this sounds convoluted but
I have all this saved as a multi track preset and it all loads up in one go. So far this setup has worked flawlessly. Even when automating lots of parameters. I read something in the manual about not using both the Din and the USB at the same time for certain things but I haven't had a single issue.
Globals are set as follows:
Midi Channel: All
Midi Clock: nSS
Clock Port: Mid
Parameter Tran: NR
Parameter Rcv: NR
Midi Control: On
Midi Sysex: USB
Midi Out: USB
Local Control: On
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I've been using the din connection only because I had an issue with the USB earlier on. Can't remember what it was though. Recently I hooked up the USB again as I got the Soundtower editor and wanted to try it with that. So I have both DIN and USB connected. When I load an instance of the OB-6 in Nuendo it loads 3 tracks all at once.
1. A midi track set to OB-6 USB in and OB-6 USB out. This track is used for automating the OB parameters from the OB-6 interface itself. No controller involved. No other data.
2. Another midi track connected to my Controller in (Din) and OB-6 (Din) out. This track handles the midi notes only.
3. Finally an audio track for the inputs of the OB-6. This track serves as my monitor channel for the OB-6 in the Nuendo Mixer.
I am sending clock to the OB-6 via the DIN connection. I know this sounds convoluted but
I have all this saved as a multi track preset and it all loads up in one go. So far this setup has worked flawlessly. Even when automating lots of parameters. I read something in the manual about not using both the Din and the USB at the same time for certain things but I haven't had a single issue.
Globals are set as follows:
Midi Channel: All
Midi Clock: nSS
Clock Port: Mid
Parameter Tran: NR
Parameter Rcv: NR
Midi Control: On
Midi Sysex: USB
Midi Out: USB
Local Control: On
That's certainly convoluted, just one question: what's your firmware version? Have you updated to 1.1.4?
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Hi,
i have the same Problem.But im running Cubase Pro 9.01.OB 6 Keyboard freezes all the Time. Cant say its only happening when i play Chords.Its also happening when i play some Unison Sounds.When it happens i have to power Cycle the OB 6.
Will test it with Pro Tools HD 12 also.But i guess it isn't a DAW issue.Im running 1.1.4.1.
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It might be worth checking the volume on the instrument has not been set to zero - this was definitely an issue for me when I thought USB wasn't working. For a while I had an expression pedal plugged in to the volume input and this turned the volume back up again - CC4 not CC11. Sending a CC7 command didn't reset it either, which was weird. At least I didn't have to keep cycling power. May be a red herring but worth a try?
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That's certainly convoluted, just one question: what's your firmware version? Have you updated to 1.1.4?
Mine shipped with the latest already installed.
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Hi,
i have the same Problem.But im running Cubase Pro 9.01.OB 6 Keyboard freezes all the Time. Cant say its only happening when i play Chords.Its also happening when i play some Unison Sounds.When it happens i have to power Cycle the OB 6.
Will test it with Pro Tools HD 12 also.But i guess it isn't a DAW issue.Im running 1.1.4.1.
Thanks for your experience. As expected, it's a 1.1.4.1 bug and not a DAW or configuration problem. We'd be thankful if someone at DSI could acknowledge this bug, there seems to be a pretty wide evidence.
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It might be worth checking the volume on the instrument has not been set to zero - this was definitely an issue for me when I thought USB wasn't working. For a while I had an expression pedal plugged in to the volume input and this turned the volume back up again - CC4 not CC11. Sending a CC7 command didn't reset it either, which was weird. At least I didn't have to keep cycling power. May be a red herring but worth a try?
Nope, nor reset command related, that's been ruled out. Hanging notes and entire MIDI IN freeze are not caused by reset commands and happen regardless of their activation state.
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A little update on this: seems to be a problem with Logic Pro X rather than the OB-6 fortunately. I couldn't reproduce the bug with Ableton Live. It also seems limited to USB MIDI and not DIN MIDI, so that could be a temporary workaround.
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A little update on this: seems to be a problem with Logic Pro X rather than the OB-6 fortunately. I couldn't reproduce the bug with Ableton Live. It also seems limited to USB MIDI and not DIN MIDI, so that could be a temporary workaround.
Yes I think you are right - yesterday I had the same issues with USB/Logic but when I tested it in Live it was fine. I think have fixed the problem - it's been fine since last night. Check the Library/Audio/Midi Drivers folder and remove any MIDI Plugins that you aren't using - one of which was actually a Digidesign MIDI Plug. If you use Pro Tools you could just move the Digidesign one to your desktop and then try Logic. Before this 'fix' I could get the OB-6 to crash by playing a sequence and editing the sound at the same time.
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Yep, having the same issue with Logic and latest version of firmware. Removed Midi Drivers in OSX for stuff I no longer have, rebooted, but still it causes stuck notes etc.
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I wasn't able to fix it removing midi drivers either, nor with the latest Logic Pro X 10.3.1 released this week. I'll be opening a bug with Logic engineers and keep you guys updated.
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I wasn't able to fix it removing midi drivers either, nor with the latest Logic Pro X 10.3.1 released this week. I'll be opening a bug with Logic engineers and keep you guys updated.
Any update? Adding to the chorus that the OB-6 (firmware 1.1.4) crashes consistently for me when playing a sequence via Logic Pro X (10.3.1) and editing a sound at the same time, using USB midi. The result is stuck notes and/or the OB-6 becoming unresponsive.
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For those of you experiencing MIDI troubles specific to Logic, I wanted to pop in and list some things to try in terms of reconfiguring Logic's settings, one or more of which is often successful in resolving MIDI issues (not just with the P6, I should add). The following list has been compiled from user feedback, including from our own Bob the Dog--thanks!
1. Uncheck all reset messages: https://support.apple.com/kb/PH13368?locale=en_US
I hope this helps.
This has worked for me! 8)
Disabling all Reset messages in Logic has cured the problem. I tested my OB-6 module and P-6 keyboard all morning with Live and they were both perfect - no issues whatsoever. So this afternoon I went back to Logic and turned off all the Reset Messages - no problems for 4 hours! The only thing I have to do is create a Midi region for OB-6 and P6 that just has CC#4 message. This is the Foot Control message which I set to 127 and forget about it. Logic will chase and pick this up everytime you press play. Message is Bn 04 7F or 04 127 in decimal. I've now saved this as part of my template. I've been using MIDI clock (both set to nSS) as well.
BTW if I delete these messages both synths eventually produce no sound.
To summarise:
OB-6 Firmware 1.2
P-6 Firmware 1.4 (Local Off)
Logic 10.2.4
Both units run perfectly in Ableton Live so nothing wrong with my synths.
Logic runs fine with reset messages turned off but with the CC#4 messages at the top of the song.
I will test with Cubase tomorrow.
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This has worked for me! 8)
Disabling all Reset messages in Logic has cured the problem. I tested my OB-6 module and P-6 keyboard all morning with Live and they were both perfect - no issues whatsoever. So this afternoon I went back to Logic and turned off all the Reset Messages - no problems for 4 hours! The only thing I have to do is create a Midi region for OB-6 and P6 that just has CC#4 message. This is the Foot Control message which I set to 127 and forget about it. Logic will chase and pick this up everytime you press play. Message is Bn 04 7F or 04 127 in decimal. I've now saved this as part of my template. I've been using MIDI clock (both set to nSS) as well.
This does not work for me. All Logic reset messages were already turned off, and I created a CC#4 message set to 127 -- no difference. Turning any knob on the OB-6 while in Logic crashes the OB-6 almost instantly making the OB-6 completely unusable in Logic Pro X, my only DAW.
Can you help, DSI? If I can't resolve basic midi operation I will have to sell the OB-6. A shame.
OB-6 Firmware 1.2.0
Logic Pro X 10.3.1
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Even with the 1.2 update mine still hangs notes in Logic when using midi then the sound cuts out altogether and I have to restart the unit. Is there a fix for this?
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OB-6 Desktop OS 1.2.0
DAW: Reaper v5.40 64bit
OS: Win 10 Pro 64bit
Hello people,
having the same issue: OB-6 sometimes freezes and needs restarting when receiving MIDI events via USB (using Reaper).
I will try to narrow down the issue as I'm not entirely sure what causes it. The last time it happened:
- Reaper was sending 4-beat-long chords to OB-6 (plus MIDI clock)
- OB-6 Arp was switched on
- I was tuning the OSC 1 frequency
.. and it got stuck. Annoying as I lost the patch I was working on.
I'm wondering whether the cause of this issue is that the OB-6 tries to access an out-of-bounds MIDI note; or a Note On event was never freed by a corresponding Note Off, so the array holding the currently playing MIDI notes grows past its size limit..
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Hi!
I searched an answer to my problem which was about Prophet 6, not OB6. Anyway I found this thread and someone mentioned about switching to midi cable instead of using usb. I tried using only midi cable, not with the usb, but with a midi cable thru midi interface. And so far my pro6 is working as expected, not a single freeze since. So, thanks, and hope this thing gets fixed for everybody else too!
Globals are set as follows:
Midi Channel: 16
Midi Clock: nSS
Clock Port: Mid
Parameter Tran: NR
Parameter Rcv: NR
Midi Control: On
Midi Sysex: midi
Midi Out: midi
Local Control: off
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I can confirm switching to MIDI DIN cables there seems to be no issues. It's only under USB there's problems but we can work around this way until Apple fixes the bug in Logic.
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I can confirm switching to MIDI DIN cables there seems to be no issues. It's only under USB there's problems but we can work around this way until Apple fixes the bug in Logic.
What I don't understand is why my Sub 37 runs perfectly in Logic Pro X 10.2.4 even with the Sub editor as a plugin running along side a MIDI track. The Sub sends a lot of data although I don't think its NPRN - which maybe the issue. I can get the OB-6 module to crash by simply looping a few single notes and sweeping the Filter Amount knob from -127 to +127 and/or sweeping the Filter Release - only takes a couple of seconds. I can bring the OB-6 back to life by doing a Reset from the MIDI preferences menu.
As a work around for Logic I have a bought a secondhand MIDISport 2x2 and both synths work perfectly on MIDI DIN in Logic. I would like to know the answer to this problem though I suspect it's down to how the software is handling NRPNs over USB.