The Official Sequential/Oberheim Forum
OTHER DISCUSSIONS => General Synthesis => Off Topic => Topic started by: Sacred Synthesis on March 03, 2018, 03:51:38 PM
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A synthesizer forum is both the best place and the worst place to have this discussion. I'm ready for the virtual tomatoes.
We all suffer from it, to one degree or another: the hunger for a steady supply of equipment. It's like an addiction, or perhaps more like an obsession. Whether new or used, we crave for constant changes to our set ups, to see stuff coming and going. We buy the latest piece, use it for a year, and then sell it on Craigslist, Ebay, or Reverb. And the reason we sell is so that we can buy something else. And when we're not buying or selling, we're researching equipment we don't yet own but are dreaming we one day will. In fact, we spend far more time on YouTube and Soundcloud listening to other people demonstrate their instruments than we do sitting at our own instruments making recordings of our own material. And speaking of our own material, rather than compose actual completed pieces of music, we, too, create primarily instrument demonstrations for the others who similarly suffer from Gear Obsession. Around and around it goes, providing a massive movement of cash and credit flow, but very little high quality synthesizer music.
We tell ourselves we don't have a problem, and that, with the next few new pieces of equipment, our vision will be complete and we'll finally be content. No more spending for us. But once we've had that new stuff for a mere two weeks or so, we're already daydreaming about another new piece of equipment - while we're driving to work or lying in bed at night. In fact, we reserve all our extended periods of thinking, and even look forward to them, because we intend to spend every minute thinking about gear. If we have composer's block for weeks on end and feel drained of all inspiration, then we attribute it, not to a lack of ideas, talent, or ability, but to a failure to stock our studios with all the right gear. And our poor wives or girlfriends - they have to endure our technical twaddle day and night, and wish that they excited us half as much as does a brand new, or newly restored, piece of gear from some distant techno-geek's workbench.
To give one example, my wife's eyes instantly glaze over as soon as I say the word "oscillator". I know of no other word that has this effect on her. Once I utter the word, she's instantly and involuntarily adrift in the ionosphere, and I can only bring her back by changing the topic.
If I can describe the above disorder with such detail, then I must have a degree of firsthand experience with it. :-[
I have one suggestion that I've learned to follow, partly due to a limited supply of disposable income. You're never going to have the perfect set up. So, design one that is good enough and be happy with it. Cut back on the demo videos; reduce your research time; stop looking outside of your studio for satisfaction, and get to work with the equipment you own.
We do not suffer from a dearth of musical tools, but from the discipline of assiduously using them to good musical effect.
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Hear hear, well said, this is true. It is, of course, an pan-disciplinary phenomenon.
The tricky thing is that improvement of one's tools is not a wholly irrational goal.
I'll say more later, but I have to feed the children right now.
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Yes, we all want to establish a certain degree of quality in our set ups, so as to serve our musical intentions. That's taken for granted. But my issue is with the obsession that cannot reach such a point for the reason that there is an obsession. The alternative is to learn how to be content with a less than perfect set up. Hard work goes a long way.
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No set-up and no instrument is perfect. Everything comes with a compromise, otherwise it couldn't be finished in the first place. But as long as one is productive and the tools one has chosen don't get in the way of being productive, that's fine. Conversely, a lack of inspiration can rarely be found within an instrument or a set-up itself. The latter is the good news with regard to gear obsession. We all do it, we all like it, because we like synths, or at least each of us likes certain types or aspects of synths. We may not agree on what is or should be the most important feature combo, but all in all new announcements or teasers can tickle our imagination from time to time. And then there are also often certain "holy grail" devices, (sometimes very expensive) instruments we might not own, but hold in high regard due to very particular characteristics. For some it's a CS-80 or a Minimoog, for chysn it's a Music Easel I believe (I do like it a lot as well), and for me certainly a Two Voice Pro amongst other items.
The question is always: Will another device really enrich anything you do on a musical level? If that's not the case from a technical or conceptual POV, have you become unsatisfied with the sound of your instruments? If so, have you tried everything to solve that problem already? Or are you looking for something new and different in terms of sound? Can that be achieved with what you already own? Are there any workarounds that might lead to interesting musical ideas in turn?
This can all be unfolded into many different directions. Sometimes, however, the reason can be really banal and one just wants something else, a different flavor or color. Pretty much any reason to get a new instrument or long for one is legitimate (from an artistic or creative standpoint) as long as one doesn't expect new inspiration to originate from the desired object itself. While it is important to treat an instrument for what it is and to be inspired by the way it works, it will always remain a tool that provides you with a set of options you ultimately have to choose from. Within that framework, the improvement of one's tools is a rather natural process that can entail an ongoing specialization as well as different approaches to maximize or minimize things, or both. Some might even go through real paradigm shifts and totally change their artistic goals and hence also most of their tools if they make a difference in that regard.
Have I now deviated completely from the obsession topic? – I don't now. Another attempt could also be to ask what constitutes the obsession. Is it just "oh great, a new synth," or something like "I wish I could own this other instrument to make better music," or "I feel like I severely lack instruments that do what I want them to do"? Is the obsession directed at particular instruments at all, or just at an empty spot that can be arbitrarily filled with anything, as long as it's different or new enough?
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I think one of the questions this post raises is: "Do we derive more pleasure from acquiring than we do from having?" I think the clear answer is: Yes, like other homo sapiens, this is quite often the case. We see many examples of this, including people who are addicted to shopping... whether it be going to the mall, the garage sale, or the eBay app. Physiologically, we get a bigger hit of dopamine when we acquire than we do from merely having.
A related question is: why are humans this way? While different people will have different explanations, (frequently dependent on our geographical location), I think the best evidence I've seen suggests that we evolved to be this way. Our ancestors were hunters and gatherers for hundreds of thousands of years, and so it's not surprising that we still receive a hit of dopamine when we acquire something. For all those centuries, acquiring something, or not, literally meant the difference between living and dying. When our ancestors were dissatisfied, they were more likely to go back out there again to try to get some more meat for the family. Those who were satisfied, stayed to snuggle by the fire and smoke magic mushrooms... and didn't live to see their genes survive to the next generation. We're wired to be dissatisfied.
The next question is why does this trait bother us so much? Because it's so illogical! (After all, we're keyboardists, not...) Aren't humans more logical than that? We think that we are logical because we can point to so many examples of logical thinking, but the truth is that we don't think very logically most of the time. Noble laureate Daniel Kanheman has a frequently sighted book on this called Thinking Fast and Slow. (For a shorter, more recent book, try Subliminal: How Your Unconscious Mind Rules Your Behavior by theoretical physicist Leonard Miodinow.) A good example is how people think about buying cars. They reason that they are in their cars ten hours a week, so that's over 500 hours a year, which is over 20 days a year, and so they're going to lease the car that they want rather than buy the car they can afford. But how much happiness do we actually get from our car? That depends a great deal on how much time we actually spend thinking about our car, which, of course, is very little.
Of course, none of this means that there is anything illogical about having wonderful instruments. Having them makes us happy too... probably more happy than most material possessions. I think it could be argued that, as our instruments get incrementally better over the years, they give us slightly more happiness. Where does that leave us? I think a major goal should be to avoid buyer's remorse. I can say that, in addition to having increasingly better keyboard rigs, I have had very little buyer's remorse, and that is because I try to research what I can so that I can make the most informed purchasing decisions. That research led me to my Prophet '08, my Tetra, and now my Rev2. No remorse with any of that; and I'm happier than I've ever been with my rig.
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I'm assuming that we're talking about hobbyists here. Professionals might be obsessed with gear, too, but they have a duty to produce something, whereas hobbyists have no such duty.
In this case, there's nothing illogical about it. Perhaps the purchases lend context and experience to the real hobby, which may be research for its own sake. If this is the case, I'd just say "let people like things," which is my pillar of geek philosophy.
If you want to produce music, but think that you need to have the right equipment first, it's a tougher call. You might be right, for example. It's definitely possible to have stuff that can't help you achieve your goals. If I had only a theremin, I'd never play any music because I find the sound of the theremin to be insufferable. That's an absurd example, but it demonstrates that finding the right fit is pretty important. You have to like your instrument.
Still, the old saw that the perfect is the enemy of the good resonates with me. If you're having trouble here, your primary goal should be to expand your definition of perfection.
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My point is simply that, at some point, you've got to put your foot down and say, "Enough is enough!" The pursuit of the ideal set up can easily predominate the objective of using well the instruments you presently have. So, yes, strive to acquire the gear you need to serve your purposes, but don't get addicted to the chase. Settle down at some point and set to work. And consider sitting out the chase for a while, even quite a while. It can be a most helpful personal challenge to stretch your own creative resources, rather than merely your financial ones.
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Perhaps it's no surprise, but there's a (slightly) similar discussion just brewing on GS, except that one has (again, no surprise) drifted immediately into a discussion of the size of one of the member's member. I know you know I'm not kidding. Uh...
Yes, this is indeed an obsession, this gear-need. I think synths all day, I work with them, I watch the vids and check the forums every 10 minutes. Maybe I'm in the minority - and I hope I'm being sensitive here - but my gear lust (and I'd say it's 88% synthesizer-focused) has never had a negative effect on my productivity. I bring this up because I can still identify with the worry that I'm spending too much time thinking about gear, worrying about the gear I wish I had etc. I've written about it on this forum and elsewhere, but despite my girlfriend in California having a Prophet 5, there's a feeling of lack and loss in my soul where my own former/future P5 once was/wants to be. I say "soul" and I mean it. I don't even need to bring spirituality into this discussion, but let's assume "soul" is simply a word for the intangible, invisible part of us we can't make sense of no matter how many books we read, how many dollars or yen we earn, how many mountains we stick flags on and so forth. But this "soul" is also the living ghost of our integrity, the bit of us that holds all the various scrambled eggs together in each of our individual personal truths. (??) For me, the Prophet 5 IS a million dollars or the mountain top. Isn't it odd that even though I have access to one half the months of the year, I have such a strong need to have and to hold my own? (Maybe some of this is just practical - her P5 belonged to Terry Riley (!) and thus I've never dared to erase any of the sounds on board - maybe all I REALLY crave is a place to program 40 patches of my own! Ha.)
This IS the stuff I think about every bloody day!
I use all the instruments I own/have access to, I get more than "money's worth," for sure. And despite my lack of recognition and record sales, I suppose I am professional! Yet, despite this alleged professional-ness, I feel like it's all a game and I have weird guilt about playing synths at all sometimes! Like, twiddling a brass patch surely can't be my "work," especially when it's for my own music. If I'm twiddling that brass patch on someone else's record for money, my attitude shifts. I hope I'm expressing myself even half clearly - it's not always clear to me, yet it's this very DSI forum that has helped shape some of my thinking about what I do and its place in the microcosmic world.
Trying to focus my rambling a little bit - one form my "obsession" has taken, again with a productive outcome, is the number of Prophet 6-only tracks I've been working with. As much as I very enjoy seeing demo vids of people working with the P6 and other synths, I wonder if my own contribution helps place this instrument in a "real world" context. "Here's what this synth sounds like in a complete song." And that's meant to speak to Sacred Tim's "enough is enough" sentiment. Meaning, I could go around the room and try one synth and then another, or I could sell another kidney and buy one synth and then another, but I'm trying to push myself to stay put, to sit with one thing and see/hear what it is on its own. But... then a get an email from Reverb or from Tone Tweakers or I watch another Prologue demo or I find a second-hand OB-6 on craigslist... Thankfully, no kidneys are being sold! While I long for more and more synthesizers and other gear, I do truly love the collection I've built up. This doesn't stop me from wishing for that CS-5 I used once or wondering if that bloke still has his Quadra and would he want to sell it...
I'm not certain if my contribution to this conversation is of use to anyone, but I appreciate the space to rant a bit!
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But nobody's got to do anything. If the pursuit is enjoyable, let it happen. If somebody wants to buy instruments and set them up and never touch them, but enjoys reading about them and buying them, then that's okay. Maybe they get noodled with on alternate weekends. Maybe not. Not everybody wants the personal challenge of stretching creativity. Collecting is an actual hobby.
The real question is, do you expect something different of yourself? If so, then the error is in thinking that the next purchase will turn you into--I don't know--Franz Schubert. In my view, that's the thinking that needs to be addressed, more than simply the obsession with gear.
The first advice that most famous writers usually give is "write something every day, even if it sucks." This might be a good start. It's Monday. I'm going to try that this week.
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I'm not certain if my contribution to this conversation is of use to anyone, but I appreciate the space to rant a bit!
Of course, it's perfectly on-point, and a fascinating perspective.
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But nobody's got to do anything. If the pursuit is enjoyable, let it happen. If somebody wants to buy instruments and set them up and never touch them, but enjoys reading about them and buying them, then that's okay. Maybe they get noodled with on alternate weekends. Maybe not. Not everybody wants the personal challenge of stretching creativity. Collecting is an actual hobby.
The real question is, do you expect something different of yourself? If so, then the error is in thinking that the next purchase will turn you into--I don't know--Franz Schubert. In my view, that's the thinking that needs to be addressed, more than simply the obsession with gear.
That's actually an important differentiation.
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Trying to focus my rambling a little bit - one form my "obsession" has taken, again with a productive outcome, is the number of Prophet 6-only tracks I've been working with.
Focussing on one particular instrument and building whole tracks with it can be a very rewarding experience, particularly in the early days. This not only provides a nicely limited creative framework, but also teaches you how to get the most out of one instrument.
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But nobody's got to do anything. If the pursuit is enjoyable, let it happen. If somebody wants to buy instruments and set them up and never touch them, but enjoys reading about them and buying them, then that's okay. Maybe they get noodled with on alternate weekends. Maybe not. Not everybody wants the personal challenge of stretching creativity. Collecting is an actual hobby.
The real question is, do you expect something different of yourself? If so, then the error is in thinking that the next purchase will turn you into--I don't know--Franz Schubert. In my view, that's the thinking that needs to be addressed, more than simply the obsession with gear.
The first advice that most famous writers usually give is "write something every day, even if it sucks." This might be a good start. It's Monday. I'm going to try that this week.
Your first paragraph, Chysn, - and especially the first two sentences - would require that we address the issue from a religious and philosophical approach - something that cannot be done on a forum such as this - not because it isn't permitted (although there is some truth to that), but because such elaborate discussions are pointless on a synthesizer forum. That's my own opinion. Such discussions are best done face-to-face and with a limited number of people who deeply care about the questions involved. Otherwise, they end up being hopelessly meandering, with folks having little interest in the topic throwing in trite little comments, witty remarks, platitudes, and jokes that lead around and around in an illogical and non-conclusive circle. It often ends up being, not even a debate, but more a rant primarily by the loudest and most persistent members, without anyone actually being able to make a serious point well. Hence, the "deep dark subjective pit" thread that predictably went nowhere. That's why I wouldn't take part in it either there or here.
In posing the original question/theme, I deliberately wanted to focus on the artistic aspect. Hence, your second paragraph was more in line with my thinking. But, of course, let the thread go where it goes. I have no interest in trying to direct it. It just seems that this topic is screaming to be addressed - the possibility that we may be immersed in the material stuff of our field more than is good for us, our music, and the field itself.
Although it's not directly related or intentional on their part, I was actually quite happy that DSI didn't attend NAMM. I've come to loathe all the hype of that winter time gear orgy, and would prefer to have an announcement that comes with less glitter. When the time comes, just give us the facts and spare us the theater. So, as far as I'm concerned, DSI can take their own sweet time preparing the next instrument. I have no doubt it will be superb. I just prefer to learn about it in a calm and serious way, and not as part of that hyper-materialistic theatrical production full of roving reporters called NAMM.
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Brave and vital subject. I also find it tough to find a personally satisfactory balance between seeking musical growth via learning in these virtual social settings and extraneous thought of tools. The fast rate and vast depth of the information on the web surely has its benefits and hazards.
Supporting each other via healthful communication as is done in this thread & forum is one Internet way of reconciling the Internet.
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Well said, Dsetto.
To pose an extreme, I find it increasingly enjoyable these days to challenge myself to make complete improvisations/compositions with a minimum of equipment. In my case, this means either one keyboard/module-paired instrument, with or even without bass pedals. It means focusing 100% on the music, since the technical distractions are nearly non-existent, except for, perhaps, moving a modulation wheel to alter the dynamics. And I find the results to be consistently among my favorite pieces. In this case, less is more.
Similarly, among the most enjoyable YouTube videos I can find are those in which the musician plays only one or two instruments. I love the Marc Melia type of approach in which one person plays one instrument and draws deeply on his and its abilities. Even if it requires multi-tracking, it's so gratifying to see one instrument being used to its utmost, if that's even possible with a modern synthesizer.
Speaking of thinking about gear - I more often find myself figuring out ways to minimize my set up. I've thus far limited myself to four or five keyboards, but lean now more towards three, and could imagine finally deciding on only two. I don't mean to be preaching about it, but am only offering another very different approach, the challenge of doing more with less. All I can say is that it feels liberating to not have so bloody much stuff, and it's always a breath of fresh air to be more directly immersed in the making of music.
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I believe my idealistic post has a dissatisfactory vacuousness. I want to follow that with "deeper connection found offline" is a possible better means. But that's hard to settle and can surely bring on different issues. (I'm intentionally open-ended as I see it embodying a wide terrain of implementations.)
And for as far as I see, I know I will continue coming here for growth & virtual discussion about matters I find intriguing. And therein lies the problem. Often, the most interesting conversations are centered about reconciling disparate individual processsing of shared sets of fixed items. And we also seek that deep level of engagement with focus capable of it.
Good luck to each of us wrestling with it. Thanks to each of us supporting each other.
Let's pretend that knowing there's a bunch of us with similar-enough goals, values, & plights helps us see the problem, accept it lovingly, make space for it- perhaps, and gently remind to put it back in its place if it's out too long.
If only I treated myself that way.
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Being with music with virtually "non-existent technical distraction". That's a guiding balancing light for the 'tools & methods' passionate.
Looking forward to returning there.
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I have in the last year stopped buying kit, or at least cut it down a fair bit.
I used to buy a couple of guitars a year and also a couple of synths.
I miss the buzz of getting something new and now I am moving into the "buy something new, fund it by selling stuff you don't need anymore".
I got a Organelle (fantastic thing) at Christmas and sold some guitar FX stuff to fund that.
I just Ordered an MPC Live, so I'm gonna sell an Elektron A4 and my Karp Odyssey to fund that.
I'm not getting the same buzz as things have to go to get new things, and you sure think about it a lot more before pressing the "buy" button!
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... In fact, we spend far more time on YouTube and Soundcloud listening to other people demonstrate their instruments than we do sitting at our own instruments making recordings of our own material. And speaking of our own material, rather than compose actual completed pieces of music, we, too, create primarily instrument demonstrations for the others who similarly suffer from Gear Obsession. Around and around it goes, providing a massive movement of cash and credit flow, but very little high quality synthesizer music....
I do wish more of us posted their music here. Maybe tying into all of this is not just gear distraction, but also patch distraction. Amassing thousands of patches can consume time and perhaps add indecisiveness into a starting point. I like making patches, but it also can be a burden time wise. So I found what works for me is that I alternate weeks. One week I screw around with patching and just playing around, then the following week I try to focus on coming up with songs.
It seems most hobbies have their YouTube obligation now. I confess that I go to bed most nights watching Youtube synth demos. If anything, this makes me even more inspired to make music. But yes, I need to be careful not to let it cause GAS. I guess everyone has their quota for GAS. I've reached that point- and P12 put the nail in the coffin ;) So, unless I'm replacing a mixer, or something broken, no more gear lusting on youtube.
I'm thinking that another possible issue that might dissuade the production of full songs might be related to reward versus the time invested. For example, one could spend 10, or more, hours on a multi-track song and get only a hundred listens on Soundcloud over period of many months. I'm sure many of us have tried handing out a CD of our music to work, friends, or family, and if you're lucky, you might find it getting used as a coaster, let alone played. But with a Youtube demo of any synth equipment, one might spend only a few hours for the whole production and rack up a lot more viewers. So for that hobbiest, it might feel they are being heard more with that approach.
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But nobody's got to do anything. If the pursuit is enjoyable, let it happen. * * *
Your first paragraph, Chysn, - and especially the first two sentences - would require that we address the issue from a religious and philosophical approach - something that cannot be done on a forum such as this
I found this confusing at first, but then I realized that my phrasing left the door open for a categorical interpretation of those two sentences, which was not intentional. I just meant that folks don't need to answer to anyone else with respect to their own musical output or lack thereof.
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law. When it comes to your art.
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But nobody's got to do anything. If the pursuit is enjoyable, let it happen. * * *
Your first paragraph, Chysn, - and especially the first two sentences - would require that we address the issue from a religious and philosophical approach - something that cannot be done on a forum such as this
I found this confusing at first, but then I realized that my phrasing left the door open for a categorical interpretation of those two sentences, which was not intentional. I just meant that folks don't need to answer to anyone else with respect to their own musical output or lack thereof.
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law. When it comes to your art.
I get your point. I just felt the need to tidy things up a bit and avoid that potential major complication
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Maybe there's a bit of confirmation bias here, too. We're all spending time on a manufacturer's forum because we're really interested in what they make, so we're sort of self-selecting an environment where everyone else has the same interests and inclination to geeking out over instruments. What if there's a whole 90% of DSI customers who buy a Prophet 08, use it for hours on end every day, and never say anything about it?
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Then that would be great. But we wouldn't be addressing such persons with this discussion because they presumably wouldn't be reading this forum. This topic concerns whomever it concerns, and we know who we are.
By the way, I'm enjoying all the different views on this subject. At least there is a little bit of soul-searching going on, which can help us become deeper individuals.
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But with a Youtube demo of any synth equipment, one might spend only a few hours for the whole production and rack up a lot more viewers. So for that hobbiest, it might feel they are being heard more with that approach.
That's not only the case for hobbyists, though. YouTube—often in conjunction with Patreon—has become the platform for anything music-related, even for those who try to make a living from making music. In many cases, it even allows them to make a living from making music at all. The rest will only come from playing as many gigs as possible, as there is no dime to earn anymore from trying to sell recorded music. Beyond that, YouTube was of course essential for the whole influencer genre, which plays a huge role in anything gear-related.
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But with a Youtube demo of any synth equipment, one might spend only a few hours for the whole production and rack up a lot more viewers. So for that hobbiest, it might feel they are being heard more with that approach.
That's not only the case for hobbyists, though. YouTube—often in conjunction with Patreon—has become the platform for anything music-related, even for those who try to make a living from making music. In many cases, it even allows them to make a living from making music at all. The rest will only come from playing as many gigs as possible, as there is no dime to earn anymore from trying to sell recorded music. Beyond that, YouTube was of course essential for the whole influencer genre, which plays a huge role in anything gear-related.
This is true. Three of my compositions have been licensed for podcasts themes, an online game and I'm in talks with a three picture deal with a production company. All from just posting on youtube and getting more and more followers.
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I do wish more of us posted their music here. Maybe tying into all of this is not just gear distraction, but also patch distraction.
Two good points. Considering how remarkably easy it is to post music on any video site, I'm amazed that more people here don't do it. I mean, if I can do it - as old-fashioned as are my methods - then surely you technological wizards could do it much better.
Secondly, the synthesist in a synthesizer community of any type feels a certain...I won't say anxiety, but rather, expectation from others to produce music with a wide plethora of patches, as if every new piece is supposed to use new sounds as well, or else it just isn't new enough. It seems directly related to the gear obsession issue.
At this point, I've completely thrown this expectation to the winds. I find inspiration in a small well-designed body of patches. I do regularly venture outside of this body in search of additions to it, but I find myself happily returning to the smaller body when it comes time for recording. I much prefer the idea of each synthesist having his or her own signature sounds, and, therefore, possessing a recognizable character, rather than having an immense number and variety of sounds that leave them without a personality. The extraordinarily wide sonic spectrum possible to the synthesizer tends to make this personality less than common, as we all tend to try to get the most out of our synthesizers, for all to see and hear.
It's funny. In searching for and saving new sounds, the actual musical use of them gives a very different perspective. Some times I'll create something new that seems impressive. At other times, I'll just run through my banks of programs and admire many of the sounds. But when the all-important musical moment arrives, a few ideas are ready to be recorded, and the appropriate sounds must be found, suddenly, so many of those "admirable" sounds seem perfectly unappelaing, and the old faithfuls appear made for the moment. Music is the greater tester of patches.
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Considering how remarkably easy it is to post music on any video site, I'm amazed that more people here don't do it. I mean, if I can do it - as old-fashioned as are my methods - then surely you technological wizards could do it much better.
I'm working on a couple of tracks, but those will still take a couple of months. But in the end they're going to feature the Pro 2 and Prophet-6 among other things. ;)
Secondly, the synthesist in a synthesis community of any type feels a certain...I won't say anxiety, but rather, expectation from others to produce music with an wide plethora of patches. Some times I get the feeling that, regardless of the quality of a piece of synthesizer music, there must always be new, new, new sounds on display. It seems directly related to the gear obsession issue.
I see that more related to the nature of synthesizers and the options they provide us with. After all, they allow for a plethora of sounds/instruments. And ever since the second wave of synths (the past few years), the broader goal is no longer to use them for emulative sounds like strings and brasses (albeit that's still done with reference to vintage presets or signature sounds), but for genuinely artificial sounds that can only be produced by synths. In that sense, synthesizers have finally found their own voice or rather: people start to use them more for what they are, not so much for what they can imitate. That of course does not exclude a focus on a collection of particular type of sounds determined by the tastes and needs of the users.
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I have not seen this thread until today... and I must say, that I think someone has been reading my gear rant thread closely because it sounds like my last 25-30 years in this "business" :D
But I have nothing to add really... because what you're writing is the truth... but it's like a drug really, and thus it takes extreme amounts of self discipline for some people to restrain from getting that "fix" that getting new stuff really is to them.
I have suffered from GAS for 25-30 years... I've been all around the problem, and lost so much money on it, that I dare not even try to calculate the loss... but I've had a lot of fun in that time, but also a lot of stress from not making anything productive, so again you're right...
I cannot explain why it takes almost 30 years before this gear frenzy suddenly feel like a curse (because it does!)... I'd have wished it dawned on me many years ago, but I'm not one to cry over spilled milk... what has happened has happened, and actually you DO reach a point where you begin to wake up, and understand that it has to stop... mainly because if you do not get anything done while hoarding like it has always been with me, then getting the gear has no point... I could as well have collected stamps or something cheaper if all I would be doing with it was noodling around for a month with it, then selling it again... it's simply pointless.
I see no problem in GAS and hoarding gear, if you can afford it, and you also get something done with it... problem is, that this is rarely the case, and the more gear, the harder it gets to comprehend it all, as you divide all your time to so many more instruments... that is one of the reasons I wanted to use just a KB37 with some eurorack modules that give me a basic system, and then quit buying more... but already as I've made my system, I start thinking about what could "complement it"... that's where the danger comes in.... again... this is why I often call my addiction "OCD"... because that's how it feels... you sit and look at the stuff you still feel you lack, instead of the things you have... I've tried it even today.... I have the KB37 in front of me, and the SV-1 sitting... even though I've toyed around with it, I focus on the modules that are not there... the "hole" in the KB37...
What it has to get down to is realizing you have a problem... it's like with any other addiction... you have to admit that you've got a problem before you can start finding the spirit to fight it... that is where I am currently... and I WILL SUCCEED! ;)
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I have not seen this thread until today... and I must say, that I think someone has been reading my gear rant thread closely because it sounds like my last 25-30 years in this "business" :D
Very funny post, Razmo. We've all been bitten. :)
Several years ago, there was a certain thirty-minute drive to work I would make in the evening. For months, I specifically reserved this half-an-hour for trying to decide whether I would buy a Prophet '08 or an Andromeda A6. It got to the point that I would practically drool in anticipation of the drive! It became thirty minutes of raw fantasy and pleasure. So, I know of what I write. My point, though, is that I think it's prudent to resist the obsession, for all sorts of reasons - some musical, some financial, and some otherwise.
The key to getting over the gear obsession, I believe, is in learning how to quit - or, in simply making yourself quit - before you've reached the satisfaction point. That satisfaction point is like an adrenalin or dopamine rush that must be resisted.
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One approach is to consider that "all things must pass", and that the equipment that you currently use today will someday not be used by you (it works and you given it up willingly | it no longer works and is unrepairable | it was taken from you | you were taken from it).
That "utility lifecycle" varies by manufacturer, user, environment, etc., but it's fair to say that everyone here is looking for something whose lifecycle is long, and for which its usefulness is maximized.
In my own case, I've somehow managed to stay near to parity, by selling off some older (mostly Waldorf) units that were no longer useful, and by purchasing a few items that were presumably unrepairable (but turned out to be workable), which lines up with my technical experience (electronics design and repair). I still have too much "stuff", but I'm fully aware that I can't hold on to it forever–nor would I want to.
And I do hope that case 1 applies to all of the above, rather than the succeeding ones!
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But in the end, the last case will prevail over all of us!
My objective is to find the minimal amount of gear that suffices for my needs, and then get out of the search and buy mode, period. I find the gear obsession to be a miserable thing and certainly a distraction from producing music and living well in general. Two things I've done so far is give up all forums except this one, as well as drastically cut down on YouTube time. I'm sure that, if I wasn't a moderator, I wouldn't be here either. It's almost "spring cleaning" time, and sorting out this issue is a priority.
Sometimes all this material stuff feels like a 100-pound backpack that never comes off unless you forcefully remove it. I haven't worn it since I was a teenager playing in bands and all that business, and now I recognize the drag of that old dead weight again.
I suppose it wouldn't be quite as bad if the music equipment wasn't so bloody expensive. It has you, not only thinking about the gear itself, but, just as bad, running the numbers through your head constantly. What can I afford and what can I not afford? And if I'm going to buy that, then what must I first sell in order to afford it? Oh, but I don't want to sell that.
Blah. It's no way to live day to day. It makes the mind into a junkyard.
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For me it's more a case of an ensemble and what each instrument does on an individual basis and what it adds to an overall composition.
I'm actually glad Prophets, ARPs and Oberheims and Moogs are expensive (twice in some cases to what Americans pay because of the weak Canadian dollar) it allows me to research and determine if such an investment is right for me. I'd rather not get a ton of Volcas, Korg micros, Behringers and stuff. Not because they are poor in quality but more because it would lead to easy accumulation and getting for the sake of getting rather than getting for the sake of approach.
I have a Prophet 6, do I NEED an OB-6 or would it be redundant?
I have a Moog Sub 37, do I NEED a Korg Monologue or Roland SE-02 or would it be redundant?
I have a Tempest, do I NEED a DrumBrute or is it just more of a nice to have?
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Anything I've put any passion into has ended in gear obsession. It's part and parcel of loving something.
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Fascinating discussion, thanks to everybody who is spending time to participate.
My story is somewhat different from what I have read you all shared in this thread. For 30+ years I was too afraid of buying musical equipment, for totally believing I would never be good enough to produce any kind of music .... :-[ In all those years I owned never more than 1 synthesizer, as something inside of me wanted to play, to produce, to be musically creative, but I did not manage to get away from this lack of believe in myself.
Then about 31/2 years ago something changed. What has stopped me all those years, fell away. All of a sudden the creative floodgates opened. A 17 year old friend of my step son asked me about a year ago: "Who do you write your music for, who is your target audience?". My answer came immediately from my guts: "Well for me of course, who else?". It is something he had great difficulties understanding. The paradox is that I do write my music for myself and I like other people to hear and enjoy it. Internally it does not feel as a conflict, strangely enough. I simply do not find it important anymore what anybody's opinion is about what I produce, except when it is to improve some aspect, to make it sound better (and I agree with the suggestion of course).
I just had to be honest with myself. Since I was about 12 I wanted to make my own synthesizer music. A teenager dream. Now I am at an age the time ahead will be shorter than the time past ..... Get moving Gerry!
In the last 3 years I have written more than 25 tracks. Five of them have made it into my first EP on Spotify/iTunes (no DSI equipment used in those first tracks). My second EP is right now being mixed and mastered by my producer, who has become a good friend in the meantime. Release date sometime in August probably.
Looking back and forward I seem to have applied my project management / agile IT skillset in creating a workflow that moves me forward. I have invented a few major objectives:
- Create my own LPs/EPs and publish them
- Give my first live performance in the year I am 60 (only 1 1/2 years left)
- Write and produce music without a DAW/laptop
- Keep learning new things related to electronic music (equipment, musical theory, performing, etc)
Number 1 is done - first album on Spotify / iTunes. If you want to hear just search for artist "Gezz", the album is called "First". It was so much fun, such a great feeling, I will just continue publishing my music for as long as I can :)
Now back to the subject. I have noticed I also do suffer from GAS (a few years ago I had to lookup that word). Of course in my own field of computing, I knew the concept. But I tend to use a set of objectives, to restrict myself:
- Analog style sound, possibly combined with digital variations
- One representative of the major types of synthesis: analog subtractive, analog/digital hybrid, wavetables, samples and FM (perhaps additive ...)
- Start with a DAW (Bitwig as it also runs fine on Linux) but move towards DAWless/laptop-less
- Purchase as much as I can second hand
- Build a multitrack (minimal 16) Linux based recording setup
My other trick to keep me on track is to discuss every purchase (well almost ...) with my beloved partner. She does not understand my teenage dream at all. Which is very good. She fulfills the role of "department head". I will have to think carefully what I want to buy and justify first to myself. I need to be totally convinced the new purchase fits in with my goals before I communicate what I want to purchase to her. She will always argue against the purchase :). My question is thus invariable: "Will this next purchase add value to my current setup?". Totally subjective of course, but the additional barrier helps me restraining myself and she has gained more respect for what I do.
A long story, sorry about that. What helps of course in all of this is that I don't need to financially rely on my income coming from the music side. As several of you already pointed out, there is not much money to be gained anymore from publishing music. My dream to give a live concert is not money driven, it will probably cost me hundreds of Euros .... ha ha.
I created a small presentation documenting my current workflow on how I produce my music. Mainly to share this with my son and a few colleagues. Looking back over the three years this workflow seems to have developed, emerged, itself and it works for me at the moment. Of course as soon as I visualized the workflow and documented it, it changed an adapted itself, which is part of the creative process I believe. If anyone is interested I can share it, it is of course entirely personal.
Lots of love from the Netherlands ;)
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Inspiring story, Gerry, thanks for sharing it. It seems like you've got the GAS pretty much under control. I think it helps to have a strong influence outside the pursuit, as I do, too.
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I think this is a great topic. Thank you Sacred Synthesis for bringing it up. I have so much to say about it, but I'll skip most of it.
I'm very far from being a practicing musician. I don't practice. In fact between my job and my two year old, I hardly have time for music. Therefore I need to sneak in time to play music when I can. I also don't have space for a real studio. I'm mainly interested in recording classical symphonic music and maybe writing my own some day (one can dream).
This all means that my instruments have very specific features: 1) They are self contained or don't take a lot of space. 2) They power up quickly. 3) They allow me to record music easily. Additionally I want the following features: 1) They sound so good that they transport me to another place, 2) They can recreate the grandeur, range, and subtlety of acoustic instruments, and 3) Multitrack recording is really easy. 4) I can carry them anywhere and use it, say, when I'm doing my, ahem, business.
Now there isn't a single device that can do this. iPads come close but they fall short on the performance and easy multitracking. My current go to instrument is the Teenage Engineering OP-1, which comes closest to what I'm looking for, but it lacks the modulation matrix and velocity-sensitive keys to capture the full dynamic range of an acoustic instrument. And two octaves is simply not enough to record the pitch range of any instrument.
Therefore I long to buy something that simply does not exist. And given my lifestyle, I cannot create music without it. So I spend more time trying to figure out how I'm going to build or buy the instrument than I spend creating music.
I'm an engineer, and I want to stick up a little for people with GAS. Some people are more interested in the instrument than the music that's created with it. I speculate that Dave Smith himself is that way. Clearly instrument design is what fills his mind, and our world is so much richer for it. We're not all composers. Some of us play what others have written. And some of us would rather think about instruments than music.
Another thought: I think that GAS is the sign of an artist who once played an instrument and was so deeply moved that he or she seeks to regain that experience but somehow never can.
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Nice.
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Major givng in to gas and discipline fail ;) ;) ;)
Friday, just over a week ago, I picked up my (long awaited) Digitone. It just so happened I saw a lonely Deepmind12D sitting in its box on the shop floor .... The rest is history. I gave in and am really enjoying exploring its capabilities, sitting nicely mounted in a rack, next to the Rev2 keyboard.
In the meantime, getting to grips with the wacky sequencer in the Digitone, I am in the middle of creating my first track featuring the 'tone, Evolver Desktop and the Rev2. No computer involved, just playing and programming. I do need to keep notes in a small notebook about which bank/pattern is playing what chord/note(s). Slowly a new workflow is starting to evolve (pun entirely intended).
It is a really nice little setup: Digitone + Evolver. Where the Evolver audio is routed through the Digitone inputs. Sounds great together. I now have a mobile and very light working environment to compose on. I didn't expect that to happen. The Digitone is indeed a real FM heaven, very easy to understand and tweak (speaking from my DX21 experiences years ago).
I think I also have settled on my choice of sequencer. Now I start to understand the Elektron sequencer, the choice has become clear. I will wait for the mail from Colin (Sequentix) when I am high enough in the waiting list to pay for the Cirklon.
Reading @tumble2k's post I do feel very fortunate that I am able to do this at this stage in my life. All I can say is please enjoy the kids (plural?) as much as you can, they grow up real quick. Before you know it, they will be asking for your car keys ..... ;) and they will be studying someplace far from home.
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I can't think of anything I want to buy.
For some reason, I keep trying force it without success. I don't think my eurorack synth can be improved. I don't want another synth with a keyboard. I could go for a Volca FM, but I don't have a burning desire for one. I wouldn't mind having a desktop Mopho again, but I'm willing to wait for an absurd deal to come along.
It's a time of quiescence, and I know I should let it happen. These days I spend my time on my Tetrapad technique. I'm like a nine-year-old, practicing scales, arpeggios, and intervals.
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I can't think of anything I want to buy.
For some reason, I keep trying force it without success. I don't think my eurorack synth can be improved. I don't want another synth with a keyboard. I could go for a Volca FM, but I don't have a burning desire for one. I wouldn't mind having a desktop Mopho again, but I'm willing to wait for an absurd deal to come along.
It's a time of quiescence, and I know I should let it happen. These days I spend my time on my Tetrapad technique. I'm like a nine-year-old, practicing scales, arpeggios, and intervals.
Ha nice! Not even the Prophet X? Sounds very saintly ;-)
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Ha nice! Not even the Prophet X? Sounds very saintly ;-)
Well, that's an interesting angle. Because who wouldn't want a Prophet X? Nobody wouldn't, that's who. I don't know about everybody else, but my GAS tends to be somewhat realistic in its reach; and a Prophet X is quite inaccessible for me, given that I've already got a $4000 synth. And I wouldn't even trade my modular straight up for a Prophet X.
One of the characteristics of GAS, for me, is willingness to abandon whatever I have now.
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Ha nice! Not even the Prophet X? Sounds very saintly ;-)
Well, that's an interesting angle. Because who wouldn't want a Prophet X? Nobody wouldn't, that's who. I don't know about everybody else, but my GAS tends to be somewhat realistic in its reach; and a Prophet X is quite inaccessible for me, given that I've already got a $4000 synth. And I wouldn't even trade my modular straight up for a Prophet X.
One of the characteristics of GAS, for me, is willingness to abandon whatever I have now.
Yeah, totally get it.
As I am in the process of building my studio, having sat on the fence for 30 years, I haven't reached that stage yet. But as I said earlier, my consciousness "angel" (my partner) really thinks exactly like that: something new in, something old out :). But from my perspective I haven't got anything "old" yet. Still so much to discover even in the S5000 or the Evolver.
I will slowly ease myself into Eurorack after the Neutron has arrived, small steps...
Currently my own thoughts about the Prophet X are that it just makes "it" to easy. Fiddling with an old Akai S5000, using aksys on a Windows XP in a virtual machine running on Ubuntu Linux, is more my type of fun. It certainly is a wonderful learning exercise. Of course the X' price tag is also a "small" consideration ;). Inspiration plenty about, I have seen some very interesting ideas floating around the discussions about the X, like combining a sine wave together with a vocal or strings based sample. Wanna try that with my S5000......
Just finished my very first "Dave Smith Instruments / Elektron" composition. I will upload it to Sound Cloud shortly. Soooo much fun composing without a computer.
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It is a really nice little setup: Digitone + Evolver. Where the Evolver audio is routed through the Digitone inputs. Sounds great together. I now have a mobile and very light working environment to compose on. I didn't expect that to happen. The Digitone is indeed a real FM heaven, very easy to understand and tweak (speaking from my DX21 experiences years ago).
I can imagine both working really well together. I had a Digitone here for review a couple of weeks ago and it's an excellent sounding box. I also like the way they implemented FM—limited but with thoughtful additions like the harmonics and detune parameters that cater well to the instant tweakability. Routing the Evolver through its mixer and effects must sound really nice.
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It is a really nice little setup: Digitone + Evolver. Where the Evolver audio is routed through the Digitone inputs. Sounds great together. I now have a mobile and very light working environment to compose on. I didn't expect that to happen. The Digitone is indeed a real FM heaven, very easy to understand and tweak (speaking from my DX21 experiences years ago).
I can imagine both working really well together. I had a Digitone here for review a couple of weeks ago and it's an excellent sounding box. I also like the way they implemented FM—limited but with thoughtful additions like the harmonics and detune parameters that cater well to the instant tweakability. Routing the Evolver through its mixer and effects must sound really nice.
They do work really well together. On my latest track (see my SoundCloud page) the Evolver audio is routed through the Tone and the Rev2 is mixed in normally via my Soundcraft. I added the Tone delay to the Evolver audio (bit easier than setting up the Evolver's own delay) and modulated the reverb a bit in places. The Tone also sends modwheel controls to both the Rev2 and the Evolver. Surprisingly easy to setup.
No further processing or EQ, directly into Audacity on Ubuntu. Track needs a bit more work, but I am happy enough about it to put it out there.
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Well, that's an interesting angle. Because who wouldn't want a Prophet X? Nobody wouldn't, that's who.
I'll be the exception, then. I don't want a Prophet X. It's a magnificent instrument, but I have no need for it. The whole idea of sampling is useless to me. If I want real instrument sounds, then I'll buy a piano, organ, recorder, or whatever. I realize there are convenience and cost factors here, so that having it all squeezed into a single instrument is very attractive to folks. But I use synthesizer to make synthesizer sounds. And even if some of them are called "strings," "brass," and "choir," still, they are undeniably synthesized strings, brass, and choir, and that's just the way I want them to sound. Perfecting such patches is not a matter of making them sound increasingly like the acoustic instruments or ensembles by which they're named, but rather, drawing out their warmth and beauty as purely synthesized variations.
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@Sacred Synthesis I'm with you on that one. For me sampling is great because it allows me to create an instrument that sounds very much like a beautiful acoustic instrument (at least for an individual note). So sample mangling just isn't something I care about at all. But to make a sampler as expressive as a real instrument is a ton of work. I have an old Ensoniq SD-1 rompler from 1993, and I'm realizing that a modern sampler will sound better than it, but won't necessarily be more expressive.
Reading @tumble2k's post I do feel very fortunate that I am able to do this at this stage in my life. All I can say is please enjoy the kids (plural?) as much as you can, they grow up real quick. Before you know it, they will be asking for your car keys ..... ;) and they will be studying someplace far from home.
Thank you @Gerry Havinga. Those are words to the wise. I just have one. Right now he doesn't even ask for the car keys. He just takes them, locks the doors, and occasionally triggers the alarm.
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May we all achieve this level of enlightenment.
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May we all achieve this level of enlightenment.
:) ah very funny ;) I really wish that was true. Divorced, kids living in another country, step kids moved out to study this year. Large amount of "empty nest" symptoms.
The upside is, I now have time to start working on my own teenage dream of sound design, composing and playing. I do suffer from a very "unenlightened" GAS obsession, counterbalanced by my partner at home and the occasional exchange with @Sacred Synthesis. ;)
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Well with nothing but my health to look after, I bought a eurocard frame the other day and am getting a Tiptop PSU this afternoon. Is this the beginning of the end? I have a lot of synths, samplers, drummachines, sequencers and fx's already. I had this idea that a modular would reduce the money I was spending every 3mths, but I don't know now. I've seen a couple of Assimil8ors on sale in my town recently....
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Imagine if you were going to Moogfest this week, where there will be nearly every modular thing one could dream of...
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The GAS doesn't stop until it's stopped.
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Well with nothing but my health to look after, I bought a eurocard frame the other day and am getting a Tiptop PSU this afternoon. Is this the beginning of the end? I have a lot of synths, samplers, drummachines, sequencers and fx's already. I had this idea that a modular would reduce the money I was spending every 3mths, but I don't know now. I've seen a couple of Assimil8ors on sale in my town recently....
What I have seen so far about Eurorack and its very active community, saving money in that way is definitely an illusion ;)
I still remember seeing Klaus Schulze play live in London many years ago, surrounded on stage by a wall of modular synths. There you have it, this seems to be my dream target, ha ha. Walls of synths ;D
I will start my foray into modular very gently by getting a Neutron. I have one on order, my (not so) local music shop doesn't know yet when they can get hold of it. I will see what next steps to take in Eurorack world next year.
I also made up my mind about a hardware step sequencer. I will most definitely go for the Cirklon. I am hoping to receive Barbara's mail sometime in December...... Colin's articles about serial MIDI and USB over MIDI timing has made me think about re-designing the home made step sequencer system my step-son and I are building. But that is a long term fun project.
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Gerry, it's good that you have a sense of which phase you're in. ... I find various valid reasons to stay abreast of our tools & techniques even if we're not needing. But, the accompanying GAS can surely be a distraction. I’m reminding myself I’ve wanted something strongly in the past; I explored it, and let it go, sticking with what I had. My excitement for the X has motivated me to delve deeper into one of my instruments. … And the push is turning out to be significantly fruitful. … For me it’s hard to know when to try to gain a deeper mastery of the technical aspects of an instrument or to leave it where it happens to be, using it as is. … Hard to know when just a few more steps takes you to the next level. WAS. Workflow Acquisition Syndrome. Sometimes I wonder if I’ve got FPS. Or, is my forum posting a healthy endeavor?
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Gerry, I have an MS20 and it doesn't sate any desire for the real-deal fully modular system. Semi-modular is like playing with a line of guitar pedals for me, so the time has come....
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Gerry, I have an MS20 and it doesn't sate any desire for the real-deal fully modular system. Semi-modular is like playing with a line of guitar pedals for me, so the time has come....
Yeah, I can say the same of Mother-32. At some point, the normalizations get in the way and you wonder why the sequencer needs to be hardwired to the oscillator. But I still think that semi-modular is a good starting point; when it comes time to sell it and move on, you won't lose that much money and you will have learned plenty.
What I have seen so far about Eurorack and its very active community, saving money in that way is definitely an illusion ;)
I still remember seeing Klaus Schulze play live in London many years ago, surrounded on stage by a wall of modular synths. There you have it, this seems to be my dream target, ha ha. Walls of synths ;D
If that's the dream, and you have the means, then go for it. But I disagree with the conventional wisdom that a modular system must inevitably grow to consume a wall. Everybody brings his or her own philosophy to the endeavor. I think a small system is harder to build, but ultimately easier to manage.
And yes, even a small system is relatively expensive, not just for the modules that are in it, but for the ones that you try out and then replace.
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I'm fine with this discussion, but if you step back a bit, there is great irony in it.
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I'm fine with this discussion, but if you step back a bit, there is great irony in it.
Yes, very well said, you do have a lovely sense of humor.
Talking about diving deeper into instruments already in ones possession.
For me it is like the bit of music I am trying to create at one moment seems to call for a patch on a particular synth. I am not sure how that works, the creative process 'calls' for a kind of sound which I then try to create with one of the instruments available.
It is a very pleasant process and allows me to explore deeper.
Sometimes watching or hearing other instruments inspires me to think 'the Rev 2 can do that' (for example). Which then pushes me into new territory. I find that also a very enjoyable process.
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I definitely feel addressed in this discussion. I’m definitely guilty of having fallen into the trap of obsessing over potential future purchases. Part of the problem was being quite new to synthesis so not really knowing what I was after or what would suit me. Had they been cheaper, I probably could’ve just picked up a Minimoog D reissue and been happy for a good long while. (The Behringer wasn’t out yet.) I started off with a Minitaur but quickly found I wanted to play higher than its note limit allows and wanted a triangle wave and some more complex modulation. I ended up getting a Subsequent as I just wanted to get stuck in and it seemed to offer plenty.
I did get the Behringer Model D eventually and really enjoyed its simplicity (and the WYSIWYG interface and lack of presets was a good learning experience). I found I was spending much more time playing music than messing around patching. It had a problem with the mod section so I ended up returning it and there was no stock with which to replace it. After subsequently reading about recent events, I feel somewhat reluctant to give that company my money.
It’s only after spending more time with the Subsequent that I’ve learned what is possible (which really is a lot) and what features I feel I’d still like to have. This has inevitably led to checking out more reviews. Perhaps a good balance would be to have something simple like the D and something complex like a Matrixbrute or Pro 2 to cover all the bases.
I’m finding myself in a similar position as regards polys. I’d definitely like to get one but cannot decide which (and realistically I can probably only get one. I love the sounds I’m hearing from the P6 and the direct interface and simplicity are very appealing (though the short keyboard puts me off). I love the control and modulation capabilities of the P12 and the fact it has linear FM, which I’m keen to explore (keybed feels less good to me than the 6 and there’s no sequencer). Or there’s the Rev 2.
I would certainly like to be able to make the decision and get on with playing and learning, free up the time and mental energy I spend on researching and calculating and live a bit more.
I’d had a similar thing with bass fx pedals and basses and I’ve just had a big purge which has been really good for my head (still got a few more to cull though).
The above probably just demonstrates I have a problem.
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Live and learn.
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Sometimes I think a decision should be passion, sometimes ration. Who's up?
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Sometimes I think a decision should be passion, sometimes ration. Who's up?
Searching for modules for my eurorack, I find I'm torn between a passionate want and a rational need. I have this list of wants and some of them crossover into needs, heheh. I am of the opinion that one can never have too many percussion sources so I tend to buy them with a passion. I am also a big advocate of MIDI routers and have meticulously research most that were ever produced so as to know which is best for what purposes and acquisitions are decided using rational (if anyone spots a Mondovox or an MX-8 for sale, please let me know).
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*there are 6 listings for the MX-8 on reverb.com and 5 listings on eBay right now.
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*there are 6 listings for the MX-8 on reverb.com and 5 listings on eBay right now.
Cheers for the heads-up. If only a Mondovox would appear (I think they were in production for all of 6mths, I saw them on the FR site, collected the money for one and then they were discontinued!)
Ebay? Must not be all available to Aus as I have an alert on that product and only three are showing for me, two of which are that seller in France (both are $300+aud incl.p&h is way too much for it, they generally go for about ~120+50usd shipping when I haven't the money to grab ::) ).
Reverb sellers tend to take the mickey at times with international shipping. Of the six you mentioned, only two are shipping to Australia, with one charging 85aud p&h and the other 282aud p&h, bringing both into the 400+ field making them not worth the cost, I'll grab a MIDIGal before I pay that much which is only really worth the cost for the diy kit, just can't find 3 components needed for it here!. MIDI delay and chord splitting are the functions I'm after, which MIDIGal provides though @ $200aud+ assembled, I'd like more than a single MIDI in and out.
GAS, it can be done rationally....heheh.
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Anyway, it's not a synth that will fall into my current cattegory, so I'll take it pretty calm whatever it is... I'm not a Sequential user anymore, and I doubt I ever will be again for several reasons.
I'll give that about 1-2 months before we see another page on your thread ;) with something Sequential.
Well, it would not be fair to blame anyone from thinking that, but I hardly doubt it ;D
I take too long with designing sounds on these very deep engine synths, and there are not enough presets in my style that I could buy to complement my own sounds. Designing sounds while composing would be very unintuitive and lenghthy, so it is not really an option... This is the main reason I give up on the deep engine synths.
Another reason is that I have always worked best under limitations where I could really squeeze the lemon... I did this with my REV2 bank as well, but with so deep machines it takes a loong time... I tweak sounds for hours and ever... This is why the hands on limitation of semi modular synthd appeal to me... Trying to get the most of them.
Then there is the editor thing... Tired of making them, tired of the MIDI quirks that is allways present in some way or another, tired of bugs never getting fixed on these deep synths and the deafening silence to suggested feature requests, the joy of being able to shelve SoundDiver. On the semi modulars the editor is on the device in full, and I like that, and they work plus I do not need to worry about OS bugs, low profile/visibillity bugs never getting fixed etc. I am sick and tired of many companies OS maintenance policies, and that not only goes for Sequential, but other companies as well... The PX sample import is a prime example of what I am talking about.
And then of course the sound itself... Having heard the Grandmother, you just know that sound will not come from anything digitally controlled... That oldschool analog tone is what really resonates with me and the sound I am after... Sure, the modulation is a longshot away from what you can do with a REV2, but I learned that you can dp a lot with just the standard subtractive analogue synthesis and their basic waveforms with just a bit of modulation and some FM of a filter or oscillator... It is more than enough.
I just ordered a Neutron which I am enjoying at the moment, and a Microvolt 3900 is on its way as well. This also leads me to another advantage which is the price... Most semi modulars are in a more affordable pricerange... I am a little fed up with the seemingly constant rise in price of Sequential products, and also that they completely dropped making smaller affordable synths like they did with the Mopho, Tetra etc.
But if DSI would make a few cool desktop semi modular synths with all parameters on the interface, I would not hesitate buying Sequential gear again... I just do not see this happening... But I love to be surprised... The marked in semi modulars could really benefit from 100% hands on synths that has a digital front end or other inovative synthesis methods. Dave would no doubt be the man to pull these things off, he just has to try and forget about his beloved presets for once, and do a direct discrete synthesizer like this that actually invite you to experiment with sound synthesis directly where both composing and sound design becomes a joint venture... This means really thinking out the limited parameters well which is crucial as you cannot have hubdreds of parameters. A synth that really resonates with you now and there when you use it... If acoustic instruments had 300 controllers, i hardly think they would have their emediateness that they do, and I feel this is what many synthesizers lack when they get too complicated to use in the creative composive process... The Grandmother is a perfect example of just this approach... Yes it is limited, but boy does it sound good, and dialing in parameters is straightforward and very intuitive.
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Bizarre to be so active on a Sequential form while having that mindset.
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I've read Razmo's 180° turn of a post several times now and I'm still trying to decide if it's funnier when read in jest or straight-faced... Pure comedic gold, I tells ya.
Edit: In all seriousness, I for one am glad Razmo finally found his true path. May he never stray from it!
...At least until tomorrow.
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Bizarre to be so active on a Sequential form while having that mindset.
Things change... It is a recent decission, but it took many years to get there... Besides I won't be that active here anymore, except for in debates like this that is about future instruments, and synth philosophy in general... Also I still have a REV2 soundbank that users sometimes contact me about, so have to take care of that here too ;)
Besides, synth technology interrest me, even if the current Sequential lineup do not gel with my current goals... I fully understand why others want what Sequential is offering... I just fancied a change away from all the hazzles of complex synths. Or rather I want to start making actual music... The complexity has kept me going for almost 30 years, all the technical jargon etc... And I really never got to the music making which seriously irritates me... And I came to the conclusion it is exactly because of all the complexity... I have read that if you keep doing the same over and over again, and nothing seems to work, then maybe you should try something different... That is what I am doing now...
Sequential synths are cool synths, but they keep me nerding instead of making actual music... That is the problem in a nutshell.
But still... Would love to see some semi modular synths from Dave... I think they already did try to mess with it sort of.. The modular lineup they did are what should have been cooked together as semi modular synths instead of single eurorack modules...
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Bizarre to be so active on a Sequential form while having that mindset.
Things change... It is a recent decission, but it took many years to get there... Besides I won't be that active here anymore, except for in debates like this that is about future instruments, and synth philosophy in general... Also I still have a REV2 soundbank that users sometimes contact me about, so have to take care of that here too ;)
Besides, synth technology interrest me, even if the current Sequential lineup do not gel with my current goals... I fully understand why others want what Sequential is offering... I just fancied a change away from all the hazzles of complex synths.
... not to mention you've been here so long that you're "grandfathered in" !!!!
:)
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Meh, he'll be back to posting per usual when he realizes having no patch memory is a massive pain in the arse, which should be in no time.
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Meh, he'll be back to posting per usual when he realizes having no patch memory is a massive pain in the arse, which should be in no time.
Oh wait... @Razmo, you're going 100% semi/modular? Oh yeah... you'll be back soon. Might as well go ahead and list that Behringer on Reverb.
;D
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Bizarre to be so active on a Sequential form while having that mindset.
Things change... It is a recent decission, but it took many years to get there... Besides I won't be that active here anymore, except for in debates like this that is about future instruments, and synth philosophy in general... Also I still have a REV2 soundbank that users sometimes contact me about, so have to take care of that here too ;)
Besides, synth technology interrest me, even if the current Sequential lineup do not gel with my current goals... I fully understand why others want what Sequential is offering... I just fancied a change away from all the hazzles of complex synths.
... not to mention you've been here so long that you're "grandfathered in" !!!!
:)
Yes ha ha... I know a lot of users here, and that is also what lures me in here... I can also help people out from time to time as I know many of the synths in depth... I do not need to be a user to enjoy the conversations ;)
And also, i tend to complain less about bugs if I do not have any of the synths... So much less Sequential bashing... I am certain they will love that ;D
And sure I will feel the GAS when something new pops up, but I just have to see it as a love that would never work.
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Meh, he'll be back to posting per usual when he realizes having no patch memory is a massive pain in the arse, which should be in no time.
I actually believe that there are both advantages and disadvantages to both situations... It is nice to have loads of presets available to browse when making music... If there is enough of these that is, and you do not have to create all by yourself... Another advantage is that you only need to make small adjustments when composing, keeping most of your fokus on the actual music making. Also the sounds can be extremely complex as hours was spend in creating the sounds in advance... But the disadvantage is that creating sounds take too long, and you tend to make your music with presets being almost like sound patchwork.
Using non presets have the disadvantage that it will require you to create every single sound from scratch, which takes longer than just browsing presets... But with semi modulars the limitations also shorten the time it takes, and sound design becomes part of the creative process... You end up playing short sequences and then tweak the sound to not only fit itself, but also the music sequence as well... This gives you unique sounds in every musical piece because the sounddesign was tailores as much to the music phrase as itself... A preset was never tailored to a specific music piece, the piece is often tailored around the preset instead...
I wont judge what is best... Thats a personal opinion, I just want to try the other way now... What matters to me now is that I create music... Not just nerd about.
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Yes ha ha... I know a lot of users here, and that is also what lures me in here... I can also help people out from time to time as I know many of the synths in depth... I do not need to be a user to enjoy the conversations ;)
True... most of us would like lurk around here even if we owned no Sequential gear for the simple fact that this community is on the whole much more positive and helpful than what you find on other, more populated, forums. We joke, and poke fun at each other from time to time, but at the end of the day, it's almost entirely in good fun and in the spirit of camaraderie...
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One area of the simple hands on with no presets where I could really see Dave use his talents would be in simple polyphonic synths with maybe 4 voices, a bit like what Dreadbox did with the Abyss. It is not even a problem with DCOs or digital control... What matters is that the synths is 100% hands on, with no preset memory and no menu diving... That is what makes them more intuitive to use.
I would not hesitate buying a 4 voice such synth based around the Curtis chip. A patching area is probably not possible with more than with monosynths but thats fine... It could even be more voices... The point is one knob per function and unique ways in which the signal path has and its associated parameters.
I would say that the P6 and OB6 is closest to what I am talking about... And if i cannot find any stereo polysynths that are hands on, I might end up with an OB6 one day, but only to use it as if it had no presets. My next purchase is a Vermona Perfourmer though, which is polyphonic... If I ever see an Abyss V2 I would get that too... I hope to see like synths from Sequential, but I would like the price considderably lower than that of the P6 or OB6.
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Or you might be over analyzing your setup. You kinda sound like a junkie who says they're going to quit whatever cold turkey, but then ends up overcorrecting. Thus instead of giving up one addiction they end up with another. Then they get fed-up with that and end up right back where they started. It's a vicious cycle that you must first be aware of to break. If you're having trouble finding the motivation to write music, the best thing is to not overanalyze your setup otherwise you're going to keep saying to yourself, "if I only had such and such piece of gear, then I could write music." The happy medium I'd suggest finding a piece of gear that you can learn like the back of your hand to where it becomes second nature. Learn to live with its inevitable shortcomings and most importantly stick to it! That doesn't come at the exclusion of all other gear, just don't obsess about other stuff. If you like the raw sound of the Matriarch or Grandmother, then keep one of those as the base and don't waver because it sounds like you have an addictive personality.
For me that piece of gear is my P6, which I have the opposite complaint about as you. I wish there was categories so that I could easily sort through whatever particular type of sound I need in the spur of the moment. I can think of very little more practical features than the ability to sort through my own meticulously crafted patches intuitively. Of course there are ways around this "fault", but nothing that's not a major pain in the backside. But alas, I've learned to live with that...
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Going in with the expectation that I'll get to know a piece of gear inside and out definitely helps spread out purchases, and as a pleasant side effect it also helps teach me more about what I will appreciate most in my next addition. It doesn't, however, necessarily address the concern that I can spend a lot of time tweaking and not much making music. That's one of my bigger concerns with dipping my toe in modular waters - I expect it would take even more discipline to stay focused on a piece of music as a whole rather than getting lost in minutiae.
It's one of the reasons I return to my piano when I need to work through an idea with a focus on harmony, melody, and rhythm before going back to thinking about sonic texture and expressive performance aspects.
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If I ever go full modular, y’all will know I’ve lost my senses. Or I won the lottery and have more disposable funds and time than I know what to do with...
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Going in with the expectation that I'll get to know a piece of gear inside and out definitely helps spread out purchases, and as a pleasant side effect it also helps teach me more about what I will appreciate most in my next addition. It doesn't, however, necessarily address the concern that I can spend a lot of time tweaking and not much making music. That's one of my bigger concerns with dipping my toe in modular waters - I expect it would take even more discipline to stay focused on a piece of music as a whole rather than getting lost in minutiae.
It's one of the reasons I return to my piano when I need to work through an idea with a focus on harmony, melody, and rhythm before going back to thinking about sonic texture and expressive performance aspects.
Getting to know a piece of gear inside and out definitely helps facilitate getting from A to B with less extraneous effort. You should be able to know where every knob is even in the dark and know exactly what said knob does. Obviously I don't personally recommend anything without patch memory (in fact, I think it's pure insanity in this day and age), but at bare minimum one has to find the raw sound of the instrument pleasing/inspiring. So if that's the Grandmother to Razmo, then great, stick to that; although he'd better be darn sufficient on it considering its nature, which is never going to happen with anything so long as he keeps waffling on exactly what an instrument has to be.
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Or you might be over analyzing your setup. You kinda sound like a junkie who says they're going to quit whatever cold turkey, but then ends up overcorrecting. Thus instead of giving up one addiction they end up with another. Then they get fed-up with that and end up right back where they started. It's a vicious cycle that you must first be aware of to break. If you're having trouble finding the motivation to write music, the best thing is to not overanalyze your setup otherwise you're going to keep saying to yourself, "if I only had such and such piece of gear, then I could write music." The happy medium I'd suggest finding a piece of gear that you can learn like the back of your hand to where it becomes second nature. Learn to live with its inevitable shortcomings and most importantly stick to it! That doesn't come at the exclusion of all other gear, just don't obsess about other stuff. If you like the raw sound of the Matriarch or Grandmother, then keep one of those as the base and don't waver because it sounds like you have an addictive personality.
For me that piece of gear is my P6, which I have the opposite complaint about as you. I wish there was categories so that I could easily sort through whatever particular type of sound I need in the spur of the moment. I can think of very little more practical features than the ability to sort through my own meticulously crafted patches intuitively. Of course there are ways around this "fault", but nothing that's not a major pain in the backside. But alas, I've learned to live with that...
It is no secret, that I have an addiction problem, I have more or less admitted to this for the last 5 years... It would not serve anything to deny this, it is easilly seen when I look at the list of gear I have had over the last 30 years. Where you are wrong though is in insinuating that I should not be aware of this... It became rather apparent to me about 5 years ago, and as a result, I have been on a journey these 5 years, trying to fix it with exactly a very limited setup that will allow me to do what I really want, and still keep me motivated to do it.
Being an aware drug or alcohol addict do not automatically mean that you can just change your habbits overnight the minute you become aware and accept that you have an addiction, things take time, and even stupid relapses... This I go thru as well, but everytime I get a bit closer to figuring out what works and what do not... The latest being that creating all those presets simply drain my motivation, and that when I finally have one bank finished for one instrument, I am so overbored with the sounds they no longer motivate me... Just the sheer thought of having to spend half a year on creating sounds for other machines is mind numbing... And I WILL have to because I cannot find third party sounds that fit my style, and I cannot come to terms doing harddisk recording of just a single synth... I have limited myself down to an 8 track setup with live MIDI tracking, but that requires 8 synths before I have the number of tracks needed to put something together... I thought that 8 high end synths with presets would be the way to go, but I realize now this is not the case... So I try 8 semi modulars instead, hoping this will be the "getting clean" setup... I hope this is the end of my 30 year journey... If not, I will just have to keep looking... But certainly I am aware...
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We need to start a group...
S.A. — Synthoholics Anonymous
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Step 1.Realize it's you, not the gear.
Step 2. Every time you want new gear, reaffirm step 1.
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We need to start a group...
S.A. — Synthoholics Anonymous
Certainly a single non anonymous thread would be enough... If you want to stay anonymous you would not exactly be admitting anything now would you? ;)
But honestly, even if a joke, I think such a thread would be rather interresting, if not even popular... I am certainly not the only synth musician with this problem, and it really would be nice to hear from others with this stupid addiction instead of always be corrected by those who got it all right, and always think that its easy for everyone else to fix, if they just be like themselves... Honestly, if they never had the addiction they do not know shit about it because it is NOT just a matter of being aware and pulling youself together... It is an addiction as any other with all the shit that comes with it.
I would certainly rather hear what others did to fix their addiction, than having the cure served from someone who never experienced it themselves. Having them knock me into seeing that I have a problem is fine, but telling me how to get out of an addiction they never experienced themselves is not the way... They may know the core of the problem, true, but certainly not how to fix it.
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Step 1.Realize it's you, not the gear.
Step 2. Every time you want new gear, reaffirm step 1.
I can only refer to my last comment... You make it sound much easier than it actually is... Have you ever had this addiction yourself?
Step1, yes it is me, and yes, the gear is certainly it, without it the problem would not even be there. You are telling a drug addict that it is not about the drug!?
Step 2, irrellevant, when step one is not correct.
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I was figuratively talking about gear (or junk). This is about literal gear, as in hardware. As far as I'm aware, there's no withdraws from getting off the stuff (I.e. more synths)... I know you already realize what the issue is, but I find reaffirmation (and obviously some willpower) is constantly necessary and key. A lot of people can't even get past step 1.
Well at least this is what works for me in this instance and all I'm really doing here is being my own psychiatrist. ;)
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We had this discussion a while back (https://forum.sequential.com/index.php/topic,2396.0.html).
I went through Razmo's situation years ago. I got back into synthesis only eleven years ago, and, because at the time I had some disposable income, I went bonkers with the gear for a few years. But I've always hated materialism, and always hated clutter, too. I soon enough decided I would own only the instruments I would use regularly, even if this resulted in a set up of only one or two synthesizers.
As has been said above, it's all about music, and the instruments are purely the means of producing it. But some folks love the researching, buying, selling, and then starting the process all over again. Personally, I find it to be a wearisome obsession - the endless hours online, watching countless YouTube demos, getting all worked up about some new forthcoming piece of gear, longing for NAMM, dreaming of the perfect set up, and so on. It's too obsessive, like a mental disorder. And the practical result is that you're constantly watching other people use this or that piece of gear, but seldom using your own. This is the point at which you recognize you have a problem and are behaving in an irrational way.
I say, find the fewest instruments that suffice for your musical needs, learn to be content with them into the future, and skip all the rest. It's the Internet that gets us, though, with its endless supply of synth news and information, luring us ever towards another instrument, and ever towards being discontent again. Either you learn to tame this monster, or it will gobble you up.
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We need to start a group...
S.A. — Synthoholics Anonymous
Certainly a single non anonymous thread would be enough... If you want to stay anonymous you would not exactly be admitting anything now would you? ;)
But honestly, even if a joke, I think such a thread would be rather interresting, if not even popular... I am certainly not the only synth musician with this problem, and it really would be nice to hear from others with this stupid addiction instead of always be corrected by those who got it all right, and always think that its easy for everyone else to fix, if they just be like themselves... Honestly, if they never had the addiction they do not know shit about it because it is NOT just a matter of being aware and pulling youself together... It is an addiction as any other with all the shit that comes with it.
I would certainly rather hear what others did to fix their addiction, than having the cure served from someone who never experienced it themselves. Having them knock me into seeing that I have a problem is fine, but telling me how to get out of an addiction they never experienced themselves is not the way... They may know the core of the problem, true, but certainly not how to fix it.
Just my two cents about gear addiction and it stopping me making music.
The only thing that has stopped me creating my own music and publishing out there was my inner conviction "I am/will never be good enough". So I have in the last 30 years always owned one synth, but never wrote or published any music.
Till 4 years ago I realized that my own belief about myself was absolute nonsense and I forgave myself (and the world) for having and "giving" me this illusion.
Now my process is quite clear and works in one of two ways.
1. I start with an init patch on the Rev2, Prophet X or Digitone (sometimes also the Evolver). I fiddle with the sound till I hear something that fits my mood at that moment and then I will figure out which key and chords work with that patch and mood.
2. I feel a mood, or sometimes just want to write something even though I don't feel inspired. I choose the key and chord sequence and then I choose a synth always starting on init.
On practically all my tracks, the sounds I designed myself from scratch, barring a few exceptions. I get bored real quick listening to the factory presets on every synth I own. They lack the creative juice that can only come from myself. Not sure how that works.
But the big thing was loosing this illusory belief that I would never be " good enough". Now I cannot stop anymore, I have to create, play write and publish music. Just matter of figuring out how and when.
Not sure if this makes sense.
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For me, since selling my Oberheim SEM Pro, I think I'm looking really hard at what gear gets used the most that I have and if there's something that isn't getting much love, it's time to trade it in and put it towards something else. My Moog Sub 37 is next to go. I promised myself I would do at least 3 tracks with it before letting it go totally but after that it must go. It's just not getting as much use as my Sequential gear and I think two ARP Odyssey Modules would be better suited for my setup. The thing with my music is I want a mono synth that will handle all my sequencing and bass lines and higher arpeggiated sequences while my Poly Synths are doing pads, chords and leads and as cool as the Matriarch is, I find I'm going to be stuck in the same scenario with the Sub 37. I'm either using it as a bass synth or lead synth or having to overdub like crazy...eh...I'd much rather have two ARP Odyssey modules being sequenced with two different settings.
I think while I appreciate the new gear coming out, my original goal of duplicating the Carpenter/Howarth setup should continue to be my focus.
Prophet-5 & Prophet-10 w/ Poly sequencers
E-mu Emulator I & II w/CD ROM
ARP Avatar (x2) and Arp Sequencer
Linn LM-1 , LM-2 & E-mu SP-12 (this combination was treated as one gigantic drum machine.
Kurzweil K250 w/user sampling
Prophet 2002
Prophet VS-2400 Vector Synth
Oberheim 4 voice w/Midi (mostly used as a bass unit)
I mean it is the greatest setup in synth history so duplicating it with modern gear is 1. Going to take time and 2. Be everything I really need once it's completed. Not everything out there now is going to match that goal but from what's available now (and possibly in the future):
Prophet-6 & Prophet-REV2 (Doing the Prophet 5/10 work)
Prophet X and possibly an XL (Doing the Emulators work)
ARP Odyssey Module (x2) (handling what the ARP Avatars were doing-Still not sure about a sequencer though)
Tempest and SP2400 (handling the drum machine stuff and likely Roger Linn's new drum machine added to the mix)
As far as the rest-I haven't found anything that would realistically work-most of the following was rackmount or module stuff)
Kurzweil K250 w/user sampling-If Kurzweil would do a module with all their sounds that would be perfect...I really don't need a full size 88 workstation. It's too much room and I'm never going to use all it's functionality.
Prophet 2002-I don't see any budget samplers coming out in the near future, Sequential or otherwise
Prophet VS-2400 Vector Synth-Maybe we may see a P12 successor or New Poly Evolver but not any time soon I feel.
Oberheim 4 voice w/Midi (mostly used as a bass unit)-Unless Tom can get a handle on the production and distribution of his instruments and with his age-I have no idea if we will ever see another pure Oberheim product again. I may have to try and get a second hand TVS Pro down the line.
I have a long way to go, but venturing outside of that goal isn't going to satisfy me because I'll always be like "Oh yeah, I need to get this."
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Great thread everyone!
The eternal gear dilemma - When is enough enough?
I started my synth exploration 25 years ago thanks to an unhealthy obsession with John Carpenter and Vangelis. I bought a matrix 6R and a K5000S. Soon I had a Korg 01W/R ,JV1080, JP8000 - I have since sold most of the old synths including a P600 and Juno 60 and gone the DSI route - P08, P12 , tempest and recently OB6! I also have a JDXA, Taurus 3 bass pedal, BSII, Mono Lancet and Moog Minitaur so as you can see I already have a lot of gear...
And here's the thing- I now make less music than I did with only 3 pieces of gear!! I long to get back to the simplicity I once had but everytime I try to downsize I will turn on a piece of gear that I want to sell and instantly fall in love with that piece of gear again...
I am greatly inspired by your thoughts and music here Sacred Synthesis particularly the way you blend your DSI gear to sound so organic- reminds me of how Vangelis would use DSI stuff if he had this gear back in the day...
Does have anyone have any advice here on how to do more with less ?
:D
-
We need to start a group...
S.A. — Synthoholics Anonymous
Certainly a single non anonymous thread would be enough... If you want to stay anonymous you would not exactly be admitting anything now would you? ;)
But honestly, even if a joke, I think such a thread would be rather interresting, if not even popular... I am certainly not the only synth musician with this problem, and it really would be nice to hear from others with this stupid addiction instead of always be corrected by those who got it all right, and always think that its easy for everyone else to fix, if they just be like themselves... Honestly, if they never had the addiction they do not know shit about it because it is NOT just a matter of being aware and pulling youself together... It is an addiction as any other with all the shit that comes with it.
I would certainly rather hear what others did to fix their addiction, than having the cure served from someone who never experienced it themselves. Having them knock me into seeing that I have a problem is fine, but telling me how to get out of an addiction they never experienced themselves is not the way... They may know the core of the problem, true, but certainly not how to fix it.
Just my two cents about gear addiction and it stopping me making music.
The only thing that has stopped me creating my own music and publishing out there was my inner conviction "I am/will never be good enough". So I have in the last 30 years always owned one synth, but never wrote or published any music.
Till 4 years ago I realized that my own belief about myself was absolute nonsense and I forgave myself (and the world) for having and "giving" me this illusion.
Now my process is quite clear and works in one of two ways.
1. I start with an init patch on the Rev2, Prophet X or Digitone (sometimes also the Evolver). I fiddle with the sound till I hear something that fits my mood at that moment and then I will figure out which key and chords work with that patch and mood.
2. I feel a mood, or sometimes just want to write something even though I don't feel inspired. I choose the key and chord sequence and then I choose a synth always starting on init.
On practically all my tracks, the sounds I designed myself from scratch, barring a few exceptions. I get bored real quick listening to the factory presets on every synth I own. They lack the creative juice that can only come from myself. Not sure how that works.
But the big thing was loosing this illusory belief that I would never be " good enough". Now I cannot stop anymore, I have to create, play write and publish music. Just matter of figuring out how and when.
Not sure if this makes sense.
I never experienced that, I always believed in my skills for some reason... What put my music creation on a hold for 20 years was gear obsession... Not because I thought I had to have all that gear to be able to make music, because I know deep inside that I could do music with just one synth and HD recording if I wanted to, but because I always said to myself, that if I just had that and that synth too, I would have more options, thus being able to compose even more complex music... I started an ongoing mission in finding as many different synthesis types I could, and stuff just added up, requirering more mixing channels, more MIDI ports, more space, more preset organizing, mor editor programing... It simply got out of hand, and having that much gear meant that I had to split fokus on so many things, slowing it all down as well... Not very productive behavior... On top of that I have an irritating flair for getting bored with what I have rather quickly, like kids with toys, making me seek the next synth fix by purchasing something new, and selling old stuff.
This is the realization I had to accept 5 years ago... And it is not easy to give up because the crave to buy is still there like the abstinences of an alcoholic... But I have resisted ending in a huge setup again... I am on the road to a definite small setup that I can comoprehend and still make music... It has taken both time and a few relapses in finding the right gear for me, but the hardest part is yet to be overcome which is resisting to buy more and actually stop buying more and get productive making music instead... But I will persevere... I have to... Hoarding gear and never making any music, is like collecting cars but never driving them... Waste of time really.
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Meh that depends Raz. If collecting things makes people happy can’t fault them for it or say it’s a waste of time. The goal in life is to be happy and if that means collecting baseball cards, cars, synths, movies, guitars, comic books, wine, whatever. As long as you realize you can’t take it with you, no harm in doing something that puts a smile on your face rather than waste your life wishing.
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... because I know deep inside that I could do music with just one synth and HD recording if I wanted to...
Therein lies a nice little challenge for all of us on this thread: pick just one instrument, and record a piece of music with it. Just one. Any effects or outboard gear is fine... but one instrument (Synth, guitar, whatever). And share your results here.
Any takers?
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... because I know deep inside that I could do music with just one synth and HD recording if I wanted to...
Therein lies a nice little challenge for all of us on this thread: pick just one instrument, and record a piece of music with it. Just one. Any effects or outboard gear is fine... but one instrument (Synth, guitar, whatever). And share your results here.
Any takers?
I was thinking of doing a cover or a tribute of the Xtro theme with only my Prophet 6. The original was done entirely with a Prophet 5 and loads of overdubs. The composer (who also directed the film) Harry Bromley Davenport was a classically trained pianist and it certainly shows.
https://youtu.be/pcEeakcNB0k
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Meh that depends Raz. If collecting things makes people happy can’t fault them for it or say it’s a waste of time. The goal in life is to be happy and if that means collecting baseball cards, cars, synths, movies, guitars, comic books, wine, whatever. As long as you realize you can’t take it with you, no harm in doing something that puts a smile on your face rather than waste your life wishing.
Think I failed at writing that it was a personal statement... For me it is an admission of failure if I just buy synths and never use them... Collecting for fun is certainly legit, but it requires that you are happy by just collecting stuff... I cannot be happy collecting synths I would never use for making music.
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Interesting Raz, good that you do believe in your own skills :)
Another thing that might work is to prepare as if you will be giving a live concert. Because you'll have to build the stage-set yourself you need to limit yourself to a few synths. I myself have limited myself to 4 synths plus one effect box on stage.
Shaw, regarding the challenge to only use one synth, do you mean recording in one take that is no overdubbing?
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Shaw, regarding the challenge to only use one synth, do you mean recording in one take that is no overdubbing?
Either... there’s a guy on GS whose signature reads: “get what you can afford, and hit record.”
I think there is some wisdom there.... unless you’re a collector, the music is the most important thing.
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DMFS and Shaw -
Challenge is indeed the word. It's one thing to theorize about cutting back on equipment; it's another thing to apply self-discipline and actually do it.
I went through this identical dilemma many moons ago, and of my tottering stacks of instruments I reduced the set up to a Crumar drawbar organ, a Minimoog Model D, and a set of Taurus bass pedals. That particular choice of instruments was so poor that I could do little that was musically satisfactory. I had gone too far with the ideal. But today, the situation is completely different because the synthesizers are far more capable. That's good news, because a synthesist can now do more with one synthesizer than once could be done with two or three.
So, the challenge is to cut back to a minimum, but then draw out a maximum from what remains. And rather than daydream about the latest and the greatest equipment, one daydreams about the joys of not needing it. The key, of course, is to select for the keeping the right instrument(s).
The first step in this challenge is to determine the maximum amount of equipment you need, and then to work towards determining the minimum. If you're a YouTuber, you can start by making recordings/videos that use only one or two pieces. How's that for a challenge - to make a complete piece of music with a single synthesizer?
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Someone on GS said this, and I don’t remember who, but I wrote it down.
I want 2 monos, 1 analog poly, 1 digital poly, 1 drum machine, 1 sampler.
(I might add sequencer to the list, but there I go again)
That list seems both minimal and full of wealth at the same time.
That’s my goal.
It’s interesting to me that someone can see that as a growth goal and someone else will see it as a reduction goal.
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Compared to what's common these days, that's actually not a large amount of gear.
It would be interesting to have on this forum a challenge to produce on YouTube one synthesizer piece each member, using a single instrument, start to finish, and with only the usual effects as compliments. Again, not a competition, but a challenge; and not a demonstration, but an actual complete piece of music. That would be a fascinating refreshing thread.
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Compared to what's common these days, that's actually not a large amount of gear.
I'm on the side where I'd need to scale down to that setup, but it seems like its a full blown setup where there are no excuses to be made.
I like that it represents a goal to people with too much stuff and to people just starting out.
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The one synth plus fx on DAW HD recording has actually been on my mind many times, and for many reasons.
1. I do not have to wait for more gear to get started.
2. Recording to HD gives the advantage of using the same synth as many times as you want.
3. FX in the DAW can be live, and separate on each track.
4. You can easily record live knob tweakings directly into the audio track
5. You can do a lot of neat recording tricks like double record a track, and pan the two tracks left and right for wide stereo effects, or record delayed versions of a track for artificial delays that change with each repeat by slightly changing the parameters like the filter for example.
6. I like working with limitations, and squeezing the most out of a synth... It is a challenge
7. Fokus is narrowed to a single synth.
8. Cable clutter can be a minimum.
9. Do not need a hardware mixer or huge soundcard with lots of inputs or big MIDI interfaces etc.
10. It is very space effecient.
11. You can buy all the synths you want, when you feel you have the funds, and just store them until you feel the urge to make a tune with one of them, making sure you never grow bored with a definite setup that will eventually leave you with GAS and sell them to buy new stuff.
... All in all a lot of good reasons to work this way for someone like me... The drawbacks to me are:
1. HD recording which makes editing notes etc. Impossible unless you re record everything.
2. Having to record a track all in one go if you use a non preset synth since you would have to dial in the same sound again if you want to add something later, which is simply too cumbersome.
3. Using only one synth can and will give you some limitations you will just have to accept. First off, vocal FX is basically impossible unless you are using a synth or sampler that has sample playback as well... Also sounds like drums can be very hard to create with some synths, resulting in puny noise bursts for snares and hihats etc.
... Not many drawbacks, though the three require you to radically change how you record and edit, especially if you are used to live MIDI sequencing and editing.
I might actually do this... At last... It will not solve my addiction of buying synths, but if it will at least make me make music, that is a price worth paying I think.
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Compared to what's common these days, that's actually not a large amount of gear.
It would be interesting to have on this forum a challenge to produce on YouTube one synthesizer piece each member, using a single instrument, start to finish, and with only the usual effects as compliments. Again, not a competition, but a challenge; and not a demonstration, but an actual complete piece of music. That would be a fascinating refreshing thread.
Great idea. For myself I would add to that: no sequencing from within a DAW (multi track recording audio is OK). I restrict myself to hardware only: one synth + one sequencer
This might be fun.
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Compared to what's common these days, that's actually not a large amount of gear.
It would be interesting to have on this forum a challenge to produce on YouTube one synthesizer piece each member, using a single instrument, start to finish, and with only the usual effects as compliments. Again, not a competition, but a challenge; and not a demonstration, but an actual complete piece of music. That would be a fascinating refreshing thread.
Great idea. For myself I would add to that: no sequencing from within a DAW (multi track recording audio is OK). I restrict myself to hardware only: one synth + one sequencer
This might be fun.
For myself I would add to that: no sequencing from within a DAW (multi track recording audio is OK).
I’m not even certain of the distinction ?!?!
I set up a Logic environment for about 24 tracks of OB-6 (my chosen synth for this challenge)... what’s the difference between a sequence and a multi-track recording???
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This might be fun.
Yes..... this will be fun for sure.......
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Therein lies a nice little challenge for all of us on this thread: pick just one instrument, and record a piece of music with it. Just one. Any effects or outboard gear is fine... but one instrument (Synth, guitar, whatever). And share your results here.
I actually find this to be a great strategy. It's something I always did when I got a new synth. It not only helps you in getting to know an instrument really well, but also forces you to get the most out of it.
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I was originally thinking of keeping this one-synth challenge restrained to a single pass - meaning, no multi-tracking, but only as much as one could achieve with a single take. Now THAT would be the most fascinating challenge of all, and would highlight the chosen synthesizer in an exceptional way. But I suppose most folks would think that's too stringent and would insist on multi-tracking galore. I won't make an issue out of this, but a single track would make demands on the synthesist and their instrument that multi-tracking would not, and would allow for a crisp clean presentation of the instrument's character and capabilities, un-muddled by layers. It's that "wall of sound" density that spoils the original intent.
Perhaps there should be a double challenge - a single track thread and a multi track.
I can think of two complications from my situation. First, I chain keyboard and module/rack versions for a larger sound. But because these concern the identical instrument in two forms, I think it should be allowed. It may be a system, but it's still the one same instrument. And second: bass pedals. I always use them. Even though they concern the same instrument - the Prophet '08 - I think they should not be allowed. The standard should be that the music must be triggered from a single keyboard and panel.
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The approach I'd take to writing for single-pass recording on an instrument that can handle multiple effects busses and lots of distinct timbres simultaneously would be similar to what I'd do when recording multiple tracks, but on a mono- or bi-timbral instrument it gets to be a very different story. This latter case is fascinating to think about.
Perhaps there should be different "weight classes" as well?
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We could come up with countless distinctions and groupings, but the two that would seemingly allow for the greatest differences would be single and multiple track recordings.
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It could be done... but with a simple monophonic synth like Grandmother, it would quickly become a massive limitation... it depend on what it is you want to portrait... is it a showcase of the synth, or a piece of music done with that synth... I would say, that only making a single track would not at all showcase what the instrument is actually capable of in a musical context if you cannot multitrack it.
I do understand the challenge in completely excluding anything else... that is, multitracking allowed, but no external FX and no post processing in the DAW like EQ/Dynamics etc... just the RAW output of the synth on each track you do... that would force you into being clever and creative, especially with a simple monosynth... like double tracking for stereo effects, several takes for PAD sounds or delayed retakes for simulating delay etc... it can certainly be done... but with that said, an external delay and reverb would certainly give you a lot more flexibility... the source sound is still that one synth.
but it would be fun to try using only multitracking without any external processing...
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Rather than be burdened with excessive rules, let's leave the effects issue to the synthesists.
I've set up two threads with guidelines. Let's just get on with the challenge, and allow this thread to revert back to the topic of gear obsession.
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I need a Matriarch... I really do ???
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Do you mean a wife or a synthesizer? ;D
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Do you mean a wife or a synthesizer? ;D
A wife? That's one of those with drone mode permanently set to "ON" right? ???
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Not necessarily. There are some very fine models still in production. I've got a vintage unit that's top-notch.
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Rather than be burdened with excessive rules, let's leave the effects issue to the synthesists.
I've set up two threads with guidelines. Let's just get on with the challenge, and allow this thread to revert back to the topic of gear obsession.
Yeah... I didn't mean to imply so many rules. Just record a piece of music with one synth. For some people that means 1 track, no effects. For others that may be bitimbral synth with a sequencer for 1 track and a 1 track played live. For other that may be a full 24 track production including effects. I really wasn't trying to create rules beyond just using 1 synth alone. Nor was I trying to insinuate a "competition".
The "challenge" is meant to be a personal one, and I thought it would be a good vehicle for all of us to spend less time looking at synths we don't have and more time recording synths we do have.
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I need a Matriarch... I really do ???
Now we are back on topic!
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Actually I am often fascinated with one synth demos... They are usually effected which is fine with me or multitracked because what fascinates me most is the creativeness needed to pull this off, and because it reminds me how much a lot of gear really matters (it does not) ... It is good therapy for me.
Thus I would not mind such a thread to link to other videos from the web, also using only one synth... There are quite a few actually... Maybe even explaining some of the tricks you use when you make a one synth piece.
I dont care what people use in addition to that one synth, as long as all things used are stated so we know all details.
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https://youtu.be/Cmlu4b8gZZY
This one is quite impressive...
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The "challenge" is meant to be a personal one, and I thought it would be a good vehicle for all of us to spend less time looking at synths we don't have and more time recording synths we do have.
Yes, that's what I was thinking, too. It's a challenge to oneself to give up the usual technological crutches we synthesists often lean on and face the music. And it's a personal challenge as well to put aside the fantasies of what we'd like to own, and instead, work with what we already own. Thread after thread on these synth forums are essentially elaborate fantacizings about more new gear, with everybody dreaming in type about all the stuff they'd like to own. That mental mode tends to take on a life of its own.
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Thus I would not mind such a thread to link to other videos from the web, also using only one synth... There are quite a few actually... Maybe even explaining some of the tricks you use when you make a one synth piece.
That's a good idea for a separate thread, but if we add it to the one-synth challenge threads, it might predominate. I mean, I could already add dozens of links to my own recordings, but I won't add even one. I think this should be a fresh series of new efforts produced entirely by members of this forum.
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face the music.
Nice turn of phrase.
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Are workstations like the Kronos allowed? Feels like cheating to me somehow... ;D
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I agree. But for the sake of keeping things simple and avoiding endless rules, I'd say, yes, workstations are allowed. The idea is to get at the core of the synthesizer and its sound, while workstations are obviously instruments of another sort. But I doubt we will be overrun by workstations...or digital pianos, drawbar organs, or mellotrons. Besides, you could just as legitimately ask about the Prophet X. Should we allow sample-based instruments? Again, I'd say, yes.
I'm not trying to write a constitution here. Let's just have the few basic guidelines and see how it goes.
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And just to be sure (even if I think this should be clear): Sustain/Expressionpedals are allowed? They are part of the instrument from my point of view, just like the mod wheel, etc. ...
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Absolutely. Pushing a pedal during a performance would be equivalent to turning a knob or moving a wheel. Onboard and offboard effects are allowed as well. And we can also use multiple patches, as long as they're all part of a single composition and performance. The challenge is to make the most of a single instrument, not to make the performance difficult for the musician.
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So is the goal to make a piece of music using only a single instrument in one recording pass or are overdubs allowed?
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Compared to what's common these days, that's actually not a large amount of gear.
It would be interesting to have on this forum a challenge to produce on YouTube one synthesizer piece each member, using a single instrument, start to finish, and with only the usual effects as compliments. Again, not a competition, but a challenge; and not a demonstration, but an actual complete piece of music. That would be a fascinating refreshing thread.
I’m in!
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And just to be sure (even if I think this should be clear): Sustain/Expressionpedals are allowed? They are part of the instrument from my point of view, just like the mod wheel, etc. ...
I’d say anything you have that you want to use is allowed... the point is to just make music with what you already own (and inspire others to do the same) instead of obsessing over gear.
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So is the goal to make a piece of music using only a single instrument in one recording pass or are overdubs allowed?
Overdubs, tracks, effects, one pass, low pass... however you want to do it.
The only “Rule” anyone has stated is this: one synth.
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So is the goal to make a piece of music using only a single instrument in one recording pass or are overdubs allowed?
I've set up two threads - one for single tracks and the other for multi-tracks. I'll copy the guidelines here:
1) This thread is for multi-track recordings of any length and complexity made with a single synthesizer.
- Any brand or model can be used, monophonic or polyphonic
- Only one instrument can be used, although multiple units of the identical synthesizer can be linked together
- The recordings can be made with as many tracks as the synthesist wishes, but from only one keyboard and panel
- External and onboard effects can be used
- Each synthesist can contribute any number of recordings
- This is not a competition, but a friendly sharing
2) This thread is for single-track recordings of any length and complexity made with a single synthesizer.
- Any brand or model can be used, monophonic or polyphonic
- Only one instrument can be used, although multiple units of the identical synthesizer can be linked together
- The recordings must be made with a single track, from one keyboard and panel
- External and onboard effects can be used
- Each synthesist can contribute any number of recordings
- This is not a competition, but a friendly sharing
I should add that you can use multiple patches, as long as they're all in the single piece of music.
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Compared to what's common these days, that's actually not a large amount of gear.
It would be interesting to have on this forum a challenge to produce on YouTube one synthesizer piece each member, using a single instrument, start to finish, and with only the usual effects as compliments. Again, not a competition, but a challenge; and not a demonstration, but an actual complete piece of music. That would be a fascinating refreshing thread.
I’m in!
That's great to hear, Chysn!
Jeepers, I'm looking forward to getting started on this.
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In general, what this is about is using ONE sound generating device only... There could be a multitude of sound manipulation devices included as well.
You have to understand though, that sound manipulating devices like FX, EQ and dynamics can SERIOUSLY change the sound... I could easilly turn even a Monotron into a gorgeous wash of ambient chordal pad sounding nothing at all like a Monotron, simply by running it thru a shimmer reverb 100% wet, but it would not say much about the character of the Monotron as a stand alone sound generating device. But it WILL prove, that you csn more or less make music with any single device which was more or less the point in the context of gear obsession.
In general all I would need would be one synth, a DAW for multitracking and a quality reverb and delay plugin... That would let me go many places in different genres.
A simple example for creating lush ambient pads is to simply fire off an Arp chord, run thru a reverb set to 100% wet and the right settings... Instant ambient pad that you can even play live with a monosynth.
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I've set up two threads
Is your intent to allow meta-discussions in the new threads, or should those threads be limited to YouTube/SoundCloud links, etc.? Feel free to move this post if appropriate. I hope to participate in one or both of these challenges.
In one sense, the single-track challenge could be very easy and straightforward: A solo musician with a single instrument playing a song start to finish probably first happened 40,000 years ago (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleolithic_flutes). Let the "tape" roll and you're done. I do it all the time with my piano and a Tascam DR-05 recorder.
To make it a "synth challenge" (i.e. both challenging and using a synth) I will probably spend more time designing patches than composing/rehearsing/recording. I don't often use my synths for live performances, so my custom programming has been geared more toward expediency in a multitrack recording environment. I imagine I'll have to set up a few Split A|B presets on adjacent slots to allow two-handed playing and rapid changes by "knob twisting." I will probably add delay/reverb after the fact rather than use the onboard FX on my Rev2. That will smooth the transitions between presets.
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I've set up two threads
Is your intent to allow meta-discussions in the new threads, or should those threads be limited to YouTube/SoundCloud links, etc.? Feel free to move this post if appropriate. I hope to participate in one or both of these challenges.
I think the two threads should be limited to links to the recordings, together with comments from the synthesist-composer. Otherwise, we probably will end up with far more discussion than music. We tend to be...um...a little long-winded around here. The challenge is to be music-focused, as opposed to the endless chatter that is the norm elsewhere.
As unnatural as it may seem, we should keep the compliments and congratulations towards the posters to a minimum; Otherwise, the threads could get terribly bogged down. The comments should be made primarily by the posters themselves, in describing their pieces of music.
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Well... now that there is a thread like this I may as well use it... I have been thinking hard since this topic started a while ago, thinking hard about my new idear of non-preset machines, and in the end I'll have to admit, that it's not really an option anyway... I need to flip my "fix" from buying new gear into being a "fix" for creating music instead. It is not an easy task, but keeping up that "gear fix" for more years is simply not going to make any changes for me, I see that now. I have to switch focus from analyzing my gear options to analyzing what gear I NEED for creating the music I actually want to make.
I also realized that more gear is (in my case) not equal to more productiveness, it only fuels my gear buying "fix" needs. So I have to cut down on the amount of gear, to be what I absolutely need, and preferably so few synths that I do not need to split my focus on too many devices... that alone will provoke my "gear fix" abstinences imensely, but it has to be done.
I realized that creating ONE sound on a semimodular is nice enough, but when that first track has been laid down, the following cannot be semi modulars anymore... i need fast access to presets to keep the creative flow going.
Currently I work via HD recording, and I will do that in the future as well, because it gives me more advantages to MIDI recording... first off, I need fewer synths as they can be reused on as many tracks as I want to, and it allow me to record knob movements directly into the score... my scores tend to get much more dynamic and alive when I HD record, rather than copy/paste MIDI tracks again and again.
My Audio interface is an RME AIO with four input expander, so I've got three stereo inputs that I decided to set as a limit... that is: three stereo synths, and no more... that will be something I can comprehend, and the three devices will be learned more in depth because of this.
The type of music I'm going for is any kind of Ambient music and Berlin School types of music, but especially one band has "that sound" that I'm after... not that I want to copy their way of making music, but the tone of the sounds, especially their basslines is what I'm after... you can hear a bit from REDSHIFT here:
https://youtu.be/ttMmBRjrDXU?t=367
Notice the power of those bassnotes... it's done by a MOOG MODULAR, so the first synth I would definitely need, will be something that kan produce these bass characteristiscs, and unfortunately there is no other way than something that use those MOOG MODULAR circuits, so the first synth (or actually two) I've chosen is the MOOG MATRIARCH. This synth is built on the MOOG MODULAR circuits, and sound like them... it will even provide four note paraphony as well, and it has that essential analog delay that is also needed to get the right sound out of the box.
I already have the GRANDMOTHER and have thought long and hard if I should sell it when getting the Matriarch, but I decided against it for a few reasons; 1. It fits nicely above the Matriach on my table, 2. it has an analog spring reverb which is also crucial for the right sounds I want from this, and 3. it will work well together with the Matriarch as additional modules to patch in... I will only have the stereo outs of the Matriarch connected to my soundcard, so the Grandmother WILL have to be patched in, but it does allow me to fire off basslines with 6 MOOG oscillators, 3 LADDER filters and both analog spring reverb and analog stereo delay... I think this little combi will work very well for any and all analog needs I'll have when making my music.
Now, the Matriarch and Grandmother will be the hands-on semi-modulars that I tweak, so the most logical would be to get a polysynth for device number two, and I have already decided on that one because my V-Synth GT will cover so much ground regarding this, that I actually have a hard time figuring out what the third synth should be. It's sample engine is unique, I can program it without an editor because it has a nice big display. It wil do timestretching, formant synthesis, sample percussion with round-robbin, Virtual Analog, FM, Ringmod.. has tons of cool FX... this synth simply has no match out there and is a god sent for creating pads which is what is just as important as basslines... also the fact that samples can be stretched, any modulation going on inside the samples do not change speed when transposing, so instead of creating specific presets, you can create templates instead, and get a pletora of new sounds just by switching the samples in a template... this fit's my needs tremendously since I hate having to create so many presets before I can use a machine... it will also let me do serious vocoding via microphone, create singing voices...
Will it do everything other synths like a wavetable synthesizer, FM synth etc. do? ... no of course not, but it can create sounds that cover the same tonal landscape... it has no wavetable synthesis, but specially prepared samples with timestretch and moving thru the samples sound just like it... it can not do 6 operator FM either, but it has FM between oscillators, and with timestretching you could use an FM sample and cover the same territory anyway.
I looked at what instruments REDSHIFT actually use beside the MOOG MODULAR, and the keyboards are a mixture of differet polysynths like DX7, Kurzweil sampler, Juno-60 etc... all polsynths that my V-Synth GT can easily cover ground for.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbVwhMZWI0U
To be honest, I think that I can make all the music I want with just these two(three) synthesizers, and any other syth added would just add up on the complexity and space it requires... and that's where the addiction hits you right i the face when you start thinking about it... "is this the end of synth buying!? AAAARGH!!!"... it's stupid, but it's that feeling I get when I think about it... that is where the burden lies to be honest. that is what I need to fight!
Anyway... I still have a singel stereo input left... and then my OCD kicks in... I really want to find that third synth that is NEEDED, but I cannot find it... Quantum and SUMMIT are the only two I seriously have been considering, but they would not cover much more territory that a V-Synth GT cannot except it has a more direct synthesis approach to the presets, and have more modulation options because of their modulation matrixes... I guess I will just have to let that slot be open until something is screaming at me: "YOU NEED THAT!" ... I am close to thinking SUMMIT might be that synth, but it has ONE drawback... it has menu diving, and not a big touch display to edit it's sounds... I do NOT want to deal with SoundDiver editors ever again! ...
So yes... I sold the PEAK, and that would have been sold anyway, so that's not a bad thing... the REV2 also has to go, it will partially fund the Matriarch next... the NYX and NEUTRON has been sent back to the dealer, so I at least got my money back there to help fund the Matriarch instead.
Other than this, I'm not in need of much anything else besides another foot pedal, a gooseneck microphone and a transportable recorder for samples. Everything fits my corner table having my computer and screen in the corner, the digital part to my left (V-Synth GT), and analog to the right (Matriarch and Grandmother).
The essential high quality reverbs and other FX will be dealt with using my DAW's plugins (ValhallaDSP).
Well... this was just "a bit" to let you guys into the "head of a gear addict" trying to get "clean" :)
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I need to flip my "fix" from buying new gear into being a "fix" for creating music instead.
This feels like such an important insight, I'm quoting it for myself as much as anything. Try coming back to it now and again as a reminder, because it's all too easy to get caught in the trap of "I could make great music if only I had <fill in the blank>."
In my, admittedly limited, experience art thrives on constraints. Making the most of what I have teaches me to appreciate it all the more. I may learn where I'd like to be able to improve my workflow somewhere down the road with some other gadget, but I try to avoid the trap of feeling unable to do more with what I already have. I've known for a very long time that I can be incredibly obsessive. In my case it's all about learning to channel that productively.
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I have to say that there is some genuine wisdom being expressed on this thread. Self-analysis is important, as is self-criticism.
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Just a short note about the two threads on single synth showing... if no one is meant to reply on the demo's people post, I think those two threads will die out pretty quickly because if you as an artist cannot get any feedback on your creations, and ask/answer questions about how different tricks was made, then these threads will (to me at least) quickly become boring... I aggree that too much off-topic is not good, but comments relating to the tunes posted would be a welcome aspect of such a thread...
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I partly agree. I've only suggested that the threads be light on talk and heavy on music. Most of the comments should come in the form of detailed descriptions of the techniques used by the composers themselves. But if people want some discussion, that's fine. But I don't think a scarcity of posts necessarily means the threads have died. It may mean instead that only a few synthesists are interested in taking up the challenge. Plus, it takes some time - even for those who are willing - to prepare such music and record such performances. Give it some time.
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I partly agree. I've only suggested that the threads be light on talk and heavy on music. Most of the comments should come in the form of detailed descriptions of the techniques used by the composers themselves. But if people want some discussion, that's fine. But I don't think a scarcity of posts necessarily means the threads have died. It may mean instead that only a few synthesists are interested in taking up the challenge. Plus, it takes some time - even for those who are willing - to prepare such music and record such performances. Give it some time.
I aggree... it's just that personally, showing what I do to others, without ever getting any response (good or bad, does not matter), then my participation eagerness will slowly die out because it generally feels just as if i had made the music, and then stored it in a directory on my harddrive... I know that it of course benefit others to listen to the posts, but seen from the creators point of view, it does get a bit boring... but I'm fine with what you just wrote, so lets keep it at that :) ... I bet I have a lot more of these types of single-synth demos from all the years I've been having loads of synths thru my studio, but it can get a bit hard to remember which ones was solely one-synth works... so I have to do a bit more digging before I post more.
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it's just that personally, showing what I do to others, without ever getting any response (good or bad, does not matter), then my participation eagerness will slowly die out
For people posting on SoundCloud, YouTube, etc., I figured those platforms allow for comments, "likes", etc. Since yours are self-hosted, there's nowhere to comment but on the threads here...
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So is the goal to make a piece of music using only a single instrument in one recording pass or are overdubs allowed?
Overdubs, tracks, effects, one pass, low pass... however you want to do it.
The only “Rule” anyone has stated is this: one synth.
Does a System-8 count as one synth? Or... Falcon? ;D
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I'm looking forward to contributing to the one synth threads after lusting for more hardware recently. Does the Mopho+Tetra count as one synth if they're polychained? ;P
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You pass with that combination by the skin of your teeth, as long as the two are used as one instrument. :D
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You pass with that combination by the skin of your teeth, as long as the two are used as one instrument. :D
Phew! Though the polyphony is nice, I do look forward to working with them separately, especially composing within the Combo Mode on the Tetra. :))