The Official Sequential/Oberheim Forum
OTHER DISCUSSIONS => General Synthesis => Other Hardware/Software => Topic started by: Paul Dither on March 10, 2016, 09:04:15 AM
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The cat is out of the box: http://www.korg.com/us/products/dj/volca_fm/ (http://www.korg.com/us/products/dj/volca_fm/)
The only downside is 3 voice polyphony. Other than that, this looks like it's going to be a very cool unit. It's going to be fun to automate the parameters with the step sequencer that apparently also has a slew option. The algorithms are part of the mod matrix too, which means you can automate any movement between different algorithms. That's a pretty neat feature.
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That is a neat feature, depending on implementation. Without good control over which algorithms you're moving around between, it could just add more chaos to an already-inherently-chaotic synthesis engine.
I think the the killer app of this thing is the ability to load DX7 SysEx.
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I'm actualy a bit irritated about the new FM synths... the Reface DX is not DX7 patch compatible, but has eight voices at least... the Volca FM has a lousy 3 voices, but are DX7 compatible... really annoying :o
I'll wait... I have this feeling there might soon be a Montage Rack... I might go for that one just to have true FM synthesis in my arsenal, but if it's not DX7 compatible, I won't get that either... there are so many free presets for the DX7 it's dumb not to utilize that... many complain that the Montage does not have the TG/SY77 capabilities of using FM and Samples between each other, but I really don't care about that... for me, I'd just like the FM part of the Montage in a 1U rack with DX7 support... please... :)
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I think I've heard that the Montage is able to load DX presets.
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The Kronos can load DX7 patches as well.
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Hope thats true about the Montage and DX7 compatibility :)
Kronos is out of the question... I lack complete interest in workstations, as they can do way too much, and it has keys which I do not want :)
Most of the bigger Yamaha synths have had a rack version, so I hope they will be doing that with the Montage as well... if not... then I'll just stick with the FM capabilities of the P12. worst case scenario, and I'll find a used TX802.
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I might be tempted to pick up a Volca FM - just dusted off / cleaned up / re-worked the keybed on the DX7 a few days ago and it might be interesting to see what the difference in sound would be.
I was never a fan of the four-operator FM synths, as most of the cool synthesis tricks required the six-op algorithms. The FS1R is waaay too expensive to consider at this point, and I always felt that the NI FM7 or FM8 were a bit over the top in terms of added features that obscured the real magic underneath.
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Hope thats true about the Montage and DX7 compatibility :)
From http://usa.yamaha.com/products/music-production/synthesizers/montage/#tab=feature (http://usa.yamaha.com/products/music-production/synthesizers/montage/#tab=feature):
"MONTAGE is directly compatible with Motif XF Voices. Yamaha is developing an FM converter to make it compatible with DX7 series Voices as well."
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I'm actualy a bit irritated about the new FM synths... the Reface DX is not DX7 patch compatible, but has eight voices at least... the Volca FM has a lousy 3 voices, but are DX7 compatible... really annoying :o
Well, although you can't polychain them (no MIDI Through), you can sync two or more units of the Volca FM via the sync ins and outs to match the settings. The rest could be done via a DAW and its MIDI configurations, just like the people did who have created a 4-voice MiniBrute that way.
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For those who are interested in an overview of the parameters.
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Ooh! FOUR characters of 7-segment LEDs for parameter names! Feels so luxurious!
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As it reads DX7 sysex any computer based DX7 editor should work I guess, might make things a bit easier!
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As it reads DX7 sysex any computer based DX7 editor should work I guess, might make things a bit easier!
That depends ... if it's just the basic bulk dump, editors may not work... you'd have to have ALL the SysEx functionality to get there, especially single parameter edits.
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As it reads DX7 sysex any computer based DX7 editor should work I guess, might make things a bit easier!
Yeah. I'd suggest Dexed because it's free and seems to work quite well: http://asb2m10.github.io/dexed/ (http://asb2m10.github.io/dexed/)
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I was thinking about the same thing. It would be exciting to edit sounds on Dexed, and have it in action with Volca FM :)
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I was thinking about the same thing. It would be exciting to edit sounds on Dexed, and have it in action with Volca FM :)
It works well for me and it's super easy to import all the DX7 libraries that are available online.
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Okay, I checked one out today. It's fun to play around with, but the limited polyphony and also the limited controlability via a MIDI keyboard (the FM doesn't respond to velocity or mod wheel) pretty much determine its use in conjunction with the sequencer. What is nice is that you can automate almost all parameters and that you can use the arpeggiator in combination with the sequencer, which is a feature I'd like to see in many more products. The warp function of the sequencer is also neat if you want to move towards odd rhythms instantly.
If you want to program FM sounds in an oldschool way, this won't be much easier than on the DX7 though. So it makes FM a bit more accessible, but only to play around with and hence on a surface, not really in depth. The intentional programming will still appear cumbersome to most I guess. When it was announced I thought I was sold on it. Now I'm glad I tried it out first. Although I don't have any current linear FM devices in my setup (wink, wink, Pro 2 update?), I don't think this would add enough new and significant sonic variety to justify its purchase. So I'll pass.
If nothing else in this direction comes up, I'd rather consider getting an original DX7 again at some point.
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Thanks for the write-up!
I've been leaning away from getting one, too. TF7 for iPad is quite satisfactory when I want to make DX-style FM sounds. It's familiar, but adds a filter.
What odds do you place on linear FM for the Pro 2? What's the current barrier to it?
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Thanks for the write-up!
I've been leaning away from getting one, too. TF7 for iPad is quite satisfactory when I want to make DX-style FM sounds. It's familiar, but adds a filter.
What odds do you place on linear FM for the Pro 2? What's the current barrier to it?
You're welcome. It's good to have anti-GAS moments as well. ;)
I think the last word on implementing linear FM into the Pro 2 was that they're not quite sure whether the processor could handle it. There are still a couple of possible additional features that await confirmation and this is one of them. Others are alternative tunings, paraphonic sequencer mode, etc. As of now, there's no timeframe given for any future Pro 2 update.
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FM noob question: how does the FM in the Volca compare to the FM in the Poly Evolver and P12? Are they same, to where you can create similar patches, or too different? I'm mostly looking to do 80s FM basses and other things common to 242 Official Version / Skinny Puppy industrial. Any patch guidance?
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FM noob question: how does the FM in the Volca compare to the FM in the Poly Evolver and P12? Are they same, to where you can create similar patches, or too different? I'm mostly looking to do 80s FM basses and other things common to 242 Official Version / Skinny Puppy industrial. Any patch guidance?
The FM in the Volca is almost identical to the DX7 although the type of controls differ. It can even read DX7 sysex if I recall correctly. That means that it's very different from the Poly Evolver and quite different from the P12. It should be able to do all the type of sounds you mention though since it is pretty much a 3 voice DX7 in a little box. :)
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...and a much cleaner DX7 voice, at that.
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One more note on this:
Depending on how you'd like to use DX-like FM synthesis, you should still consider the original DX7, as the Volca FM's velocity amount can't be controlled by an external MIDI controller. So for reasons of live playing expressiveness, the original DX7 and it's reincarnations would make more sense. However, if you only wanna use the Volca FM as a sequencer-controlled device, it's probably the better choice.
With regard to the DSI instruments you brought up it has to be said that the Evolver's FM capabilities are furthest away from anything DX-like, since it only offers exponential FM, which remains only musical (in terms of scales) at very low settings. The Prophet 12, however, offers linear FM in addition to that, which means that it can be used as a 4 operator FM synth similiar to the DX7. Keep in mind though that the DX7 and the Volca FM utilize 6 operator FM.
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The Prophet 12, however, offers linear FM in addition to that, which means that it can be used as a 4 operator FM synth similiar to the DX7. Keep in mind though that the DX7 and the Volca FM utilize 6 operator FM.
But they can only use sine waveforms
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And with layering on the P12 you get 2x4 ops.
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The Prophet 12, however, offers linear FM in addition to that, which means that it can be used as a 4 operator FM synth similiar to the DX7. Keep in mind though that the DX7 and the Volca FM utilize 6 operator FM.
But they can only use sine waveforms
Sure. I just wanted to point out the difference.
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FM noob question: how does the FM in the Volca compare to the FM in the Poly Evolver and P12? Are they same, to where you can create similar patches, or too different? I'm mostly looking to do 80s FM basses and other things common to 242 Official Version / Skinny Puppy industrial. Any patch guidance?
The FM in the Volca is almost identical to the DX7 although the type of controls differ. It can even read DX7 sysex if I recall correctly. That means that it's very different from the Poly Evolver and quite different from the P12. It should be able to do all the type of sounds you mention though since it is pretty much a 3 voice DX7 in a little box. :)
Thanks! :) Can you chain them to get more voices? I'd like to be able to ambient pads as well, and 3 voices is a bit slim. Looking at the TX802 as well, since I understand it's DX7 compatible and about the most bang for the buck; plus I prefer rackmount for most things at this point. No more room for keys or desktops. :D
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Depending on how you'd like to use DX-like FM synthesis, you should still consider the original DX7, as the Volca FM's velocity amount can't be controlled by an external MIDI controller.
Ah, that's a deal-breaker. Dynamics aren't something I am ever willing to give up. Nothing should ever ship without velocity and aftertouch IMO.
I'm looking at the TX802 and PreenFM2 as my best bets now, and since I prefer rackmount at this point, unless I can discover a reason not for the TX802, it's likely the way I'll go once it gets to the top of my buy list.