The Official Sequential/DSI Forum

Loose knobs ?

Re: Loose knobs ?
« Reply #20 on: March 09, 2017, 08:01:14 AM »
our out of warranty policy is the best in the business hands down which is $25 per repair.

Holy crap, I had no idea!  This is fantastic.  Now I'm much less concerned about the future of my PEK.  :D

Re: Loose knobs ?
« Reply #21 on: April 03, 2017, 11:04:58 AM »
Hello everybody! After selling my P08 last year I finally got a Prophet 6 as replacement ;-)
As much as I like the sound, it has the same wobbly knobs described here and the plastic/rubber on some knobs also seem to deteriorate. Technically everything works as suspected, but the feel of the pots is one of the worst I've come across (and I've seen a lot). After all, this is supposed to be a 3000Ä instrument...
Since the user experience seems so patchy, have different types of potentiometers been used in the P6?
And is it possible to change the pots/knobs with better quality ones?

Re: Loose knobs ?
« Reply #22 on: April 04, 2017, 05:26:57 AM »
I feel blessed i came across this thread prior to purchasing this instument. This is straight up shocking. So to clarify these loose knobs are considered acceptable by DSI? I just read this post watched that video posted with the loose knobs and that is just plain crazy to say that's acceptable for an instrument so expensive. I was really looking forward to purchasing this instrument and has put me right off regardless of warrenty.

Re: Loose knobs ?
« Reply #23 on: April 04, 2017, 05:51:52 AM »
I feel blessed i came across this thread prior to purchasing this instument. This is straight up shocking. So to clarify these loose knobs are considered acceptable by DSI? I just read this post watched that video posted with the loose knobs and that is just plain crazy to say that's acceptable for an instrument so expensive. I was really looking forward to purchasing this instrument and has put me right off regardless of warranty.

The construction is no different than that of, say, a Sequential Prophet-600 from 30+ years ago; then as now, the potentiometers were soldered to the top-panel PCB but used no retaining nut to clamp the potentiometers to the metalwork. There are arguments both for and against this approach, though it's generally much easier to replace the top-panel PCB than to fix bent metalwork....  :D

That said, the knobs themselves have a slimmer (rectangular) profile than those used 30 years ago, with a smaller diameter, so it's much more obvious when a shaft is slightly off center, compared to the OB-6, for example, which uses a different (SEM-style) knob with its square-ish profile.

I've got a Mopho SE of similar construction as that of the Prophet-6, with nary a wobbly knob in sight, for what it's worth.

If one was particularly concerned about this, I'd demo and visit a retailer which stocks the Prophet-6, so that you can inspect the unit prior to payment.

While it may be the case that your expectations regarding build quality are higher due to the import / distribution price differential, it's your moneyĖand it's perfectly fair to question fit and finish. If there's a bad batch of PCBs, or of knobs / encoders, it's statistically likely that all units from the same manufacturing run would exhibit identical behavior.

If, on the other hand, not all units have the same issue, then any and all defective units could have their top-panel PCBs swapped out by the local service center.

DSI has generally been pretty responsive when it comes to manufacturing issues, which is part of the added value when buying their stuff, as opposed to, say, Korg or Behringer.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2017, 06:08:34 AM by DavidDever »
Sequential / DSI stuff: Prophet-6 Keyboard, Prophet 12 Keyboard, Mono Evolver Keyboard, Split-Eight, Prophet 2000

Re: Loose knobs ?
« Reply #24 on: April 06, 2017, 11:48:21 AM »

The construction is no different than that of, say, a Sequential Prophet-600 from 30+ years ago; then as now, the potentiometers were soldered to the top-panel PCB but used no retaining nut to clamp the potentiometers to the metalwork. There are arguments both for and against this approach, though it's generally much easier to replace the top-panel PCB than to fix bent metalwork....  :D

That said, the knobs themselves have a slimmer (rectangular) profile than those used 30 years ago, with a smaller diameter, so it's much more obvious when a shaft is slightly off center, compared to the OB-6, for example, which uses a different (SEM-style) knob with its square-ish profile.

Well, I prefer them fastened to the case but that's not the point. I also wouldn't mind if the knob is off center.
The potentiometers themself are not moving at all actually, it's really just the shaft of them that are loose and moving a few mm. I've only experienced this with the cheapest of cheap pots and I just don't get why DSI would use these on this otherwise wonderful synth...

Re: Loose knobs ?
« Reply #25 on: April 14, 2017, 03:34:18 PM »
Yes, same here. Just got it last week from Sweetwater. The pots are shoddy in every way. How they can call that movement acceptable is ridiculous. My 200 line 6 amp has VERY tight knobs. The $10 dollar pot on my guitar is more solid.  Simply unacceptable which really sucks because I love the instrument. To try and pass this off to customers when they clearly know it's not right is flat out insulting!
« Last Edit: April 14, 2017, 03:40:44 PM by mankindjj »

Re: Loose knobs ?
« Reply #26 on: April 14, 2017, 03:45:35 PM »
Yes, same here. Just got it last week from Sweetwater. The pots are shoddy in every way. How they can call that movement acceptable is ridiculous. My 200 line 6 amp has VERY tight knobs. The $10 dollar pot on my guitar is more solid.  Simply unacceptable which really sucks because I love the instrument. To try and pass this off to customers when they clearly know it's not right is flat out insulting!

Send it back for a refund, then wait to see what happens.
Sequential / DSI stuff: Prophet-6 Keyboard, Prophet 12 Keyboard, Mono Evolver Keyboard, Split-Eight, Prophet 2000

Re: Loose knobs ?
« Reply #27 on: August 02, 2019, 07:19:34 AM »
Hey guys.
I have been in love with DSI synths for a while and decided to get myself an xmas gift of a new P6!
I unwrapped it just recently and noticed at least 1/4 of the knobs are "loose". I saw some forum posts about "wonkiness", or rotation off-axis, but my issue is different. There is movement of about 1/8" or more when handling some knobs. They feel as though they are mounted to nothing and might snap if not grabbed softly. Mostly the knobs on the right side.

I'm not in love with the knobs n  my new OB-6. I had problems with the suboctave and I have been turning this a lot to test it and it seems to be working loose after a fortnight.
On my Prophet-6, I have not had any problems with looseness of controls in the last 18 months. It feel very nicely built and the action is dead smooth and slightly "oily" so you can glide to a very precise setting. It's one of the first year's production and I wouldn't be surprised if those earlier ones were better made. My P6 feels a very much more solid instrument than my new OB-6. There is a sight hint of wonkiness or eccentricty to a few of the knobs but not much and this does not affect their feeling of solidity.
I would suggest returning your P6 and looking for a good secondhand Prophet-6 with an early serial number, say around 400, so some of the early issues have been ironed out but there is no possibility of thrifting with components.
Prophet-6 nut. Formerly, just a Prophet-5 nut.

Re: Loose knobs ?
« Reply #28 on: August 02, 2019, 07:30:29 AM »
Thanks for your reply synththeory.
I should have purchased it from a reputable place like Sweetwater. I bought it new on amazon, sold by a third party Unique Squared. Seems they have a 15% restocking fee even if item is completely broken, which is significant considering the 3k price tag.
First foray into DSI and really bummed.

Right, I got my PB+6 from Andertons in the UK at a competitive price I would add, not the very cheapest in the UK but second cheapest among the real dealers. I had a problem with the first one, some weirdness with the sub oscillator mentioned elsewhere and on Gearslutz, so they sent me a second unit and collect the first, for free.  Second unit had a sticky Bank button that skipped values but then it stopped doing it after some swearing but I videoed it so I have PROOF!
This second unit also started to crash on power on which I videoed again and swore rather a lot. In tne meantime, Andertons' courier accidentally re-directed the first unit back to me so I had the two at home to compare. Neither was perfect. The first one had the Sequential label serial #03638. and the second had the DSI label serial # 03632. SO I got to play with my Prophet-6 and two OB-6s very carefully for a few days. Eventually I decided I really wanted the sound and to keep one. Andertons were still willing to refund me after trying 2 units and instead of pushing me to try a 3rd they said maybe that wasn't advisable, which it wasn't.
So I kept the first and the courier collected the second one this morning.
Now this afternoon, the sub octave knob on the one I kept is starting to work loose.
It is not a good build compared to my old Prophet-6.
As for Andertons, for customer service in sending 2 synths on a combined 5 journeys for free, I would rate them *****.


Prophet-6 nut. Formerly, just a Prophet-5 nut.

Re: Loose knobs ?
« Reply #29 on: August 02, 2019, 07:37:15 AM »
I've not noticed any of these defects on my P6, which was new in March 2016. If I had I would have sent it back for a replacement, which I'm sure would not have been a problem given the quality of customer support from both Andertons (uk) and DSI.
I've just had some issues with two OB-6s from Andertons and they were very helpful and free postage for returns, etc, etc.
See my other reply on this thread.
Your P6 is old, like mine (mine is probably made late 2015 perhaps, serial #0383.) Feels solid as a rock and ALSO plays the same note twice on the arpeggiator isn ASSIGN mode with HOLD on so you can play ANY 32 note arp, even with repeated notes which the new OB6s WILL NOT DO.
When I first saw this P6 I was surprised at the high quality feel of the conrols, though asmalll, precisely adjustable and very, very smooth to turn. Nice 1970s Texas Instruments TI-58 pocket calculator style "clacky" buttons and then those old Prophet-5 switches makes for a nice sound and feel in the room as well as the audio output from the synth.
Will your P6 do this? Mine has OS 1.4.0 by the way.
I knew the OB6 would feel cheap by comparison and it does.
I am wondering if the old Prophet-6s are better built than the later ones.

Prophet-6 nut. Formerly, just a Prophet-5 nut.

Re: Loose knobs ?
« Reply #30 on: August 02, 2019, 07:42:50 AM »

One member privately messaged me that DSI offered to send him the pots to solder, or have soldered, in as replacement. He wasn't satisfied with quality, understandably, and returned it and moved on to something else. While my time is limited, like most here, I'd be willing to solder in some tightly-spec'd pots (sourced from DSI or other).

There's no excuse for that kind of poor build quality. Period. It's a "Friday afternoon after a long, liquid lunch at the pub" type of assembly and quality control problem.
Prophet-6 nut. Formerly, just a Prophet-5 nut.

Re: Loose knobs ?
« Reply #31 on: August 02, 2019, 07:49:25 AM »
Thanks, TH!  I'll take a closer look.  That wobble on all the knobs has always bugged me from day one.  Too late for me to do the 30-day Sweetwater defective exchange.  But if DSI thinks this is normal they will probably not be willing to replace it with an entirely new keyboard.  My only option at this point would be to sell it off and buy a new one with hopes that it's an heirloom quality keyboard.
I would suggest looking at an earlier serial number secondhand one and going and having a good look at it first. Patience might pay off. My second hand P6 is solid as a rock, in fact the smoothness and quality of the pots surprised me when I tried them.
As for the OB-6, the pots feel cheaper (2018-19 OB6s that is) and not nearly as solid.
Maybe I just got a really nicely finished P6 and the guy who built it knew how to use a screwdriver.
Prophet-6 nut. Formerly, just a Prophet-5 nut.

Re: Loose knobs ?
« Reply #32 on: August 02, 2019, 07:55:22 AM »
Would hate to have wobbly knobs if that's my main touch interface with a piece.
This affects both.
It seems the earlier serials didn't have this issue. After returning 3 or 4 P6 units (not just because of wobble, but other bad QA issues), I got one that works, but still with lateral wobble. I love the sound of the P6, and will just live with it. Honestly, I've decided what you get with this poly overshadows imperfections like this.
The OB6 has a bit of wobble in some pots, but its practically a battleship of rugged construction (thicker top coat, knobs that are flush). I just wish the P6 had that same attention to detail.

I found the opposite. My old P6 is much more solid than my newer OB-6. Cases on both look and fell fabulous but they really need to improve this issue with the knobs because it pees off the customers. I mean, lovely keybed, lovely case, lovely wood, lovely design, lovely SOUND, lovely specification, lvely usability and then crappy lots too many times.
There need to be some butt kicking in the pot tightening department.

Prophet-6 nut. Formerly, just a Prophet-5 nut.

Re: Loose knobs ?
« Reply #33 on: August 02, 2019, 10:39:12 AM »
Hey guys.
I'm actually very bummed out. Half of the board's quality feels lower than a pawn store special plastic OD guitar pedal. But other areas it's solid.

The guys/girls at Sequential in management need to kick butt on this one. There is a lack of realisation that sloppy quality control or possibly some corner cutting on some things can be spoiling the reputation of the product, even though in other areas the units are superb. The sub octave knob on my new OB6 seems to be loosening in the first month of use.
I mean if they took the same care with the knobs as with the wood, everything would be great!
We need the wood department guy/girl to manage the knob department.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2019, 11:27:00 AM by DaveP6guy »
Prophet-6 nut. Formerly, just a Prophet-5 nut.

Kja

Re: Loose knobs ?
« Reply #34 on: August 02, 2019, 01:23:43 PM »
They use decent alpha pots, if there are problems then that happens in bulk manufacturing, but they use good stuff. You know that sequential doesn't actually make the synths right? They contact the work out to another company in California.

Re: Loose knobs ?
« Reply #35 on: August 04, 2019, 12:19:34 PM »
I feel blessed i came across this thread prior to purchasing this instrument. This is straight up shocking. So to clarify these loose knobs are considered acceptable by DSI? I just read this post watched that video posted with the loose knobs and that is just plain crazy to say that's acceptable for an instrument so expensive. I was really looking forward to purchasing this instrument and has put me right off regardless of warranty.
This is what needs to be said to focus the minds of the instrument producer.
Prophet-6 nut. Formerly, just a Prophet-5 nut.

Re: Loose knobs ?
« Reply #36 on: August 04, 2019, 12:29:26 PM »
What wee need to know is: if we get a knob on our synth that works loose over time, can we repair it easily?

I have a slightly working loose Sub Octave knob on a nearly new OB6. My Prophet-6 does not have any of these, at all.

The others are fine.

If I look underneath the knob, there is a circular thing, maybe that I gues surrounds the shaft that holds the seemingly plastic control knob. This does not appear to move so prehaps the shaft that sticks up from it is the thing that has the play - or the plastic knob itself.

I don't know if the knobs are removable. I guess they must be, otherwise how can a service engineer / tech detach the control PCB board from the top panel?

However, I am not going to remove any of these knobs! I won't even do it on my old broken Pro-one because I don't want to break anything further. A YouTube video or repair kit/advice is needed.

If the vast majority of controls on the synth are OK, there must be a way to change any one(s) that is/are too loose.

The trouble is, once a knob seems to be loose there is a temptation to wiggle it more to test it - and make it even looser.



Prophet-6 nut. Formerly, just a Prophet-5 nut.

Re: Loose knobs ?
« Reply #37 on: August 05, 2019, 03:57:51 AM »
Iíve seen loose knobs on a few of the store models Iíve tried (though obviously they may get abused).

More telling was that the cutoff knobs on my Pro 2 became wobbly after just a couple of weeks. Yes they were still functional but became so loose that it was difficult to program accurately and it took some of the joy out of playing. I ended up returning it for a refund after a replacement board didnít solve the issue. Itís such a shame as the synth was great. I just need to have confidence that my gear isnít going to fall apart through normal, careful use. I really hope Sequential consider using better parts in future for their pots.

Re: Loose knobs ?
« Reply #38 on: November 10, 2019, 02:44:01 AM »
Hello, I knew about wobbly knobs and other issues there were found on some P6, but I didn't know that also the OB-6 could have the same issues. Few days ago I bought a B-stock desktop module OB-6 from Thomann and it should arrive here tomorrow.
Now I'm curious if it will have some defects too. In the case I will swap it for a new one...