Behringer synth teasers

[Shaw]

Longest presentation so far:

HA!!!  Dude is wearing a Roland Jupiter-8 T-shirt... Nothing subtle about that!

Yeah, although it's nowhere near that one.

Also: It seems as if there's no sawtooth option available for DCO 2 - at least not from the front panel. So it looks like DCO 1 provides pulse wave and sawtooth, but DCO 2 only square wave plus tone mod.

ToneMod looks like PWM but spread over 2 wave cycles instead of just one.  If that's the case, a small different that can lead to some interesting timbers....

[Shaw]

Did someone already post the SOS demo?

[Paul Dither]

Longest presentation so far:

HA!!!  Dude is wearing a Roland Jupiter-8 T-shirt... Nothing subtle about that!

Yeah, although it's nowhere near that one.

Also: It seems as if there's no sawtooth option available for DCO 2 - at least not from the front panel. So it looks like DCO 1 provides pulse wave and sawtooth, but DCO 2 only square wave plus tone mod.

ToneMod looks like PWM but spread over 2 wave cycles instead of just one.  If that's the case, a small different that can lead to some interesting timbers....

Reminds me of the PWM alternatives on the MiniBrute. Something that modifies the harmonic content.

[Paul Dither]

Did someone already post the SOS demo?

Not yet. I found this quite sobering. Once the effects get turned down in this video, the tone becomes obviously a whole less exciting and rather shallow. - Still not impressed.

[Shaw]

Did someone already post the SOS demo?

Not yet. I found this quite sobering. Once the effects get turned down in this video, the tone becomes obviously a whole less exciting and rather shallow. - Still not impressed.

I'd Agee with that 100%.

[Paul Dither]

My problem is that I haven't seen anything but marketing yet and occasionally Uli Behringer's awkward behavior (in my opinion) on Gearslutz. Call me old-fashioned, but I prefer the "out of nowhere announcements" by DSI and a couple of other companies.

[Sacred Synthesis]

Call me old-fashioned, but I prefer the "out of nowhere announcements" by DSI and a couple of other companies.

Yes, indeed.  Behringer, please don't waste our time with any more demos of an instrument that is still a few months away from being released.  When it's all ready to go, then talk to us. 

[Sacred Synthesis]

[Shaw]

Funny.   

[Flux302]

here was a quick video I shot when I first laid hands on the Deepmind 12. I have since had roughly 3-4 hours on it all to myself. a really impressive board. there will be a lot of haters. let em hate... this thing sounds DAMN good. videos don't even do it justice. and its built very solid. the faders have a bit of side to side wobble... but man its heavy and very thick metal. I still have to edit the rest of my footage. I will also have them on my Synthsummitshow mid october. (I keep trying to get Dave smith on but haven't heard a positive reply    

[eXode]

Review of the Deepmind 12 by Sonic State:

[vinnyburns1@mac.com]

It sounds pretty good. Lots of features too. Will be a winner like the X32 was.
Shame about the keyboard :-(

[Paul Dither]

Sounds okay, but it seems to me that too many features have been stuffed inside, which doesn't help anybody. There's too much menu diving that could have been implemented in a nicer way (good example: the Prophet 12 module).

[DavidDever]

Sounds okay, but it seems to me that too many features have been stuffed inside, which doesn't help anybody. There's too much menu diving that could have been implemented in a nicer way (good example: the Prophet 12 module).

Actually, it looks as if it implements a similar edit-page scenario....

[Paul Dither]

Similar, yes. But it's the combination of display plus the 'soft knobs' and 'soft keys' that makes editing quite intuitiv and easy on the Prophet 12 (keyboard + module) and the Pro 2 in case you need to use the display. Also, the according OLED display gives you less of a headache than this rather cheap looking one Behringer's using, which rather reminds me of some clumsy 1990s ROMpler display (by today's standards) - not very nice to stare at for a longer while.

[Edit: Sorry David, I accidently hit the modify button instead of reply. Fixed it, but hence the note beneath your post.]

[vinnyburns1@mac.com]

I seem to remember people wanting to discredit the X32 when it came out too. The reluctance to admit it was actually pretty good was funny to watch and for the money, it was a game changer. Now it's become the standard desk at a certain level.
Although I doubt I will be buying this synth due to the 49 keys, it is a cool little synth and the sound clips have been good. I think it has some nice tricks up its sleeve. Hope they bring a 61 key version out in the future.

[Paul Dither]

I seem to remember people wanting to discredit the X32 when it came out too. The reluctance to admit it was actually pretty good was funny to watch and for the money, it was a game changer. Now it's become the standard desk at a certain level.
Although I doubt I will be buying this synth due to the 49 keys, it is a cool little synth and the sound clips have been good. I think it has some nice tricks up its sleeve. Hope they bring a 61 key version out in the future.

It's certainly a useful synth at this price point, yes. But I don't really regard the DM12 as a game changer, even if it may be advertised as such. Like Rich Hilton said on one SonicTalk episode: people act as if DSI haven't done it before.

Yeah, maybe DSI's instrument don't come with dozens of effects, but their synth engines within themselves have always been more powerful. Plus: I don't necessarily regard an effect section as an integral part of a synthesizer outside the ROMpler world. It can be and it is a part of sound design, yes. But particularly these days, most users have all that as plug-ins already if they're on a budget, or as hardware if they can afford it. From my perspective, that adds to the gimmicky character of the DM12.

And for live use, included effects might be practical, but the amount of drowned-in-effects-sounds I've heard so far, would only make sense in conjunction with a pretty decent PA system, a great live mixer (the person), and great overall acoustics, otherwise such sounds will only turn into mud on stage.

So the only thing that remains as being "game changing" is the price, but that within itself hasn't much to do with a synth engine's quality. It only says a lot about consuming and competition. Soundwise, I haven't heard anything from the DM12 that can't be done with other instruments. Plus: I don't really get what was/is so desirable about the Juno-106, on which the DM12's synth engine is based, in the first place. It's a pretty average novice synth at best.

[DavidDever]

Similar, yes. But it's the combination of display plus the 'soft knobs' and 'soft keys' that makes editing quite intuitiv and easy on the Prophet 12 (keyboard + module) and the Pro 2 in case you need to use the display. Also, the according OLED display gives you less of a headache than this rather cheap looking one Behringer's using, which rather reminds me of some clumsy 1990s ROMpler display (by today's standards) - not very nice to stare at for a longer while.

[Edit: Sorry David, I accidently hit the modify button instead of reply. Fixed it, but hence the note beneath your post.]

No worries - I'd agree on the display: the Korg Minilogue does so much more with so little.

In fact, the Minilogue vs. DeepMind provides a perfect inflection point in that the VCO-based Minilogue sounds great with a minimal, modeled delay; the DeepMind, on the other hand, makes use of multi-voice unison and quad effects to flesh out its sound, while the basic, single-oscillator waveforms sound as sterile as you'd expect them to on a DCO-based unit.

I'd love to see what Behringer thinks it could bring to market in the $500 street-price range–could they actually do it? Kitchen sink vs. teacup?

Plus: I don't really get what was/is so desirable about the Juno-106, on which the DM12's synth engine is based, in the first place. It's a pretty average novice synth at best.

The Roland Juno-106 is a slightly different beast with the KiwiTechnics upgrades installed; excluding the MKS-7 Super Quartet, there was never a proper rackmounted version, so the user experience is largely colored by the crap SysEx implementation, its pedestrian signal flow layout, and the noisy (yet characterful) stereo chorus effect.

That said–I much prefer the JX-3P, which gets you closer to Jupiter sound for such crazy little money (around $300 used, if you look hard enough) these days. Add the Kiwi upgrade and an external knobby controller (the Behringer one is quite good), and you're really pretty well set for a DCO-based, six-voice analogue polysynth. (And 61 keys!)

At six voices, you'd have to spend money to get to a Prophet '08 from that point, or to reach to a Prophet-6 or OB-6 to ascend to the next level.

[Paul Dither]

In fact, the Minilogue vs. DeepMind provides a perfect inflection point in that the VCO-based Minilogue sounds great with a minimal, modeled delay; the DeepMind, on the other hand, makes use of multi-voice unison and quad effects to flesh out its sound, while the basic, single-oscillator waveforms sound as sterile as you'd expect them to on a DCO-based unit.

Interesting that you bring up the Minilogue, but I would agree. It definitely does more with less gimmicks (although I don't perceive effects as gimmicks per se, which I hope I made clear before) and it would be interesting to see a slightly bigger version. The only problem I perceived about the delay though, is that it's really rather noisy.

The Roland Juno-106 is a slightly different beast with the KiwiTechnics upgrades installed; excluding the MKS-7 Super Quartet, there was never a proper rackmounted version, so the user experience is largely colored by the crap SysEx implementation, its pedestrian signal flow layout, and the noisy (yet characterful) stereo chorus effect.

Gotcha. I was just referring to the historical version if you like. Although I'm aware of the Kiwi upgrade, it's always a bit tricky to keep track with updates for devices one doesn't use, which is about the only excuse I have in this case.

That said–I much prefer the JX-3P, which gets you closer to Jupiter sound for such crazy little money (around $300 used, if you look hard enough) these days. Add the Kiwi upgrade and an external knobby controller (the Behringer one is quite good), and you're really pretty well set for a DCO-based, six-voice analogue polysynth. (And 61 keys!)

You can even find them quite often with the original controller. But yeah, the JX-3P definitely makes for a more interesting DCO synth.

[vinnyburns1@mac.com]

It's certainly a useful synth at this price point, yes. But I don't really regard the DM12 as a game changer, even if it may be advertised as such. Like Rich Hilton said on one SonicTalk episode: people act as if DSI haven't done it before.

Yeah, maybe DSI's instrument don't come with dozens of effects, but their synth engines within themselves have always been more powerful. Plus: I don't necessarily regard an effect section as an integral part of a synthesizer outside the ROMpler world. It can be and it is a part of sound design, yes. But particularly these days, most users have all that as plug-ins already if they're on a budget, or as hardware if they can afford it. From my perspective, that adds to the gimmicky character of the DM12.

And for live use, included effects might be practical, but the amount of drowned-in-effects-sounds I've heard so far, would only make sense in conjunction with a pretty decent PA system, a great live mixer (the person), and great overall acoustics, otherwise such sounds will only turn into mud on stage.

So the only thing that remains as being "game changing" is the price, but that within itself hasn't much to do with a synth engine's quality. It only says a lot about consuming and competition. Soundwise, I haven't heard anything from the DM12 that can't be done with other instruments. Plus: I don't really get what was/is so desirable about the Juno-106, on which the DM12's synth engine is based, in the first place. It's a pretty average novice synth at best.

I actually said the X32 was a game changer. :-)