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Prophet 10 voice layering.

Prophet 10 voice layering.
« on: January 18, 2021, 09:36:26 PM »
Hey,

My first post and proud owner of #0816. I had an idea that might be exclusive to 10 owners. What if you could layer voice 6 with 1, 7 with 2, 8 with 3, 9 with 4 and 10 with 5! Essentially creating a big 5 voice. I have no idea how hard that would be to implement, maybe activate it by holding Unision and tapping Globals?  The idea hit me after toying with 2 voices in unison with last note priority. Almost like mimicking the Jupiter 6's Solo function except with 2 voices. Anyways, back to noodling.

Cheers,
echoloch
Korg Mono/Poly, Sequential Prophet 10 Rev4, Buchla Music Easel

Re: Prophet 10 voice layering.
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2021, 02:07:26 PM »
Whoa! Cool, so did they implement this idea? Quoted from the OS post.

"Feature: New Poly Unison mode. Hold UNISON and select PU2 using the Inc/Dec buttons. Each note is allocated two voices."

I updated my P10 and this feature sounds great! My panel update didn't run all the way thru the process it seems. Although, if I hold GLOBALS and hit 2 it reads the correct panel OS. Anyone else experience this?

Korg Mono/Poly, Sequential Prophet 10 Rev4, Buchla Music Easel

Gomjab

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Re: Prophet 10 voice layering.
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2021, 03:10:00 PM »
Yep!  They did and it sounds awesome! 

To use Unison:

1.    Press and hold the unison switch.

2.    With the unison switch held down, use the group select (decrement) and bank select (increment) switches to choose the number of voices to stack, then release the Unison switch.

When you hit bank select to increment number of voices to stack, after the numbers there is CHORD then the new setting for poly double.  If you select that your Prophet 10 with be 5 voice polyphonic with each of the five doubled.  It sounds glorious!

Whoa! Cool, so did they implement this idea? Quoted from the OS post.

"Feature: New Poly Unison mode. Hold UNISON and select PU2 using the Inc/Dec buttons. Each note is allocated two voices."

I updated my P10 and this feature sounds great! My panel update didn't run all the way thru the process it seems. Although, if I hold GLOBALS and hit 2 it reads the correct panel OS. Anyone else experience this?
« Last Edit: February 12, 2021, 03:17:12 PM by Gomjab »

LPF83

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Re: Prophet 10 voice layering.
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2021, 04:20:29 PM »
Yep!  They did and it sounds awesome! 

To use Unison:

1.    Press and hold the unison switch.

2.    With the unison switch held down, use the group select (decrement) and bank select (increment) switches to choose the number of voices to stack, then release the Unison switch.

When you hit bank select to increment number of voices to stack, after the numbers there is CHORD then the new setting for poly double.  If you select that your Prophet 10 with be 5 voice polyphonic with each of the five doubled.  It sounds glorious!

Yes it does!  And the effect the vintage knob has on the sound when in poly unison mode is a real treat!
Prophet 10, Prophet 6, OB-6, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Toraiz AS-1, Moog SlimPhatty, Hydrasynth desktop, Korg Minilogue XDm, Roland SPD-30, Roland SPD-SX Special Edition, Roland KT-10, Maschine, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd Gen + Octopre, Strymon Pedals, Cubase Pro 11.

Re: Prophet 10 voice layering.
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2021, 01:07:35 AM »
Yep!  They did and it sounds awesome! 

To use Unison:

1.    Press and hold the unison switch.

2.    With the unison switch held down, use the group select (decrement) and bank select (increment) switches to choose the number of voices to stack, then release the Unison switch.

When you hit bank select to increment number of voices to stack, after the numbers there is CHORD then the new setting for poly double.  If you select that your Prophet 10 with be 5 voice polyphonic with each of the five doubled.  It sounds glorious!

Yes it does!  And the effect the vintage knob has on the sound when in poly unison mode is a real treat!

So does the unison spread function; with unison held down press program 1-8 for detune. For some reason it is a stronger effect that on simple unison, maybe this is a software issue that can be reviewed by @pym

LPF83

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Re: Prophet 10 voice layering.
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2021, 04:53:08 AM »
Yep!  They did and it sounds awesome! 

To use Unison:

1.    Press and hold the unison switch.

2.    With the unison switch held down, use the group select (decrement) and bank select (increment) switches to choose the number of voices to stack, then release the Unison switch.

When you hit bank select to increment number of voices to stack, after the numbers there is CHORD then the new setting for poly double.  If you select that your Prophet 10 with be 5 voice polyphonic with each of the five doubled.  It sounds glorious!

Yes it does!  And the effect the vintage knob has on the sound when in poly unison mode is a real treat!

So does the unison spread function; with unison held down press program 1-8 for detune. For some reason it is a stronger effect that on simple unison, maybe this is a software issue that can be reviewed by @pym

For me this is expected behavior, because the detune/thickening effect is typically going to equal number of notes played times the number of voices times the detune level (maybe not exactly depending on algorithm implementation, but that's the net effect).  So even if you're only holding down one key when comparing poly unison mode to unison mode, it should sound much more detuned because its two layered voices that are detuned differently (perhaps dramatically differently depending on vintage knob setting).  For that reason, I think I will find the vintage knob and it's subtle behavior more useful when in poly unison mode.

That being said, I have not gone too deep on using poly unison + higher numbers of unison detune across a wide range of sounds, so my opinion on this may change later if I try certain sounds and it feels disproportionate.


Prophet 10, Prophet 6, OB-6, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Toraiz AS-1, Moog SlimPhatty, Hydrasynth desktop, Korg Minilogue XDm, Roland SPD-30, Roland SPD-SX Special Edition, Roland KT-10, Maschine, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd Gen + Octopre, Strymon Pedals, Cubase Pro 11.

Re: Prophet 10 voice layering.
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2021, 11:25:43 PM »
Poly unison sounds great on my P10.

The only niggle I have is HOW MUCH PRESSING you have to do to scroll to PU2 in the menu while holding unison.

As poly unison, for me at least, is going to be used far more frequently than normal unison it would have been very cool to have it easier to access. Either by putting PUT to the LEFT of '1' so only 1 press needed from scratch OR to hold down unsion and press the 'preset' button to immediately put it in POLY unison mode instead of having to scroll.. Yeah I know once it's programmed you can just hit the unison button on and off but it's something I'll want to try out on almost EVERY patch I ever create, far more than a mono '1' or stacked 6-10 voices... so it would make sense and be a lot less button clicking and time wasting. Please consider it Sequential! (You could still additionally leave it where it is at the end of the menu to not upset people if a simple "UNISON" + "PRESET" would set it to PU2 instantly anyway).

Also, reverse LFO waveforms (esp saw which rev 4 is sorely lacking) by double clicking the LFO waveform button to reverse it.. it would open up a BIG world of sound with such simple additions, things that are already on the P6 IIRC and this is a much more expensive and cherisable synth, shame to hold it back entirely to what the past had just to be 'authentic' when it's already had some much needed tweaks for Rev 4.

Prophet 10 Rev 4 | Prologue 16

Re: Prophet 10 voice layering.
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2021, 03:20:27 AM »
The new PU2 mode is awesome, Im blown away even with the P5 as I normally play few notes at same time. I not regret the choice of P5 instead of P10 - I prefer the old classic way to record the P5 by stacking the P5 with slightly detuned takes and filter settings. But if the future holds a voice upgrade for the P5 I would get it (otherwise still happy with 5 voices) just for this PU2 mode when play around without recording and stacking.

LPF83

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Re: Prophet 10 voice layering.
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2021, 05:55:03 AM »
The new PU2 mode is awesome, Im blown away even with the P5 as I normally play few notes at same time. I not regret the choice of P5 instead of P10 - I prefer the old classic way to record the P5 by stacking the P5 with slightly detuned takes and filter settings. But if the future holds a voice upgrade for the P5 I would get it (otherwise still happy with 5 voices) just for this PU2 mode when play around without recording and stacking.

Even in 5 voice mode on the P10, PU2 its a nice feature -- for example, it can be used to take away the abruptness of note change on what would otherwise be a monophonic sound such as bass or lead.  There are sometimes the abruptness is desirable, but its great to have that option.
Prophet 10, Prophet 6, OB-6, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Toraiz AS-1, Moog SlimPhatty, Hydrasynth desktop, Korg Minilogue XDm, Roland SPD-30, Roland SPD-SX Special Edition, Roland KT-10, Maschine, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd Gen + Octopre, Strymon Pedals, Cubase Pro 11.

Re: Prophet 10 voice layering.
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2021, 03:25:47 AM »
I'm loving PU2.. Especially for patches like 211. I still can't believe it was added.  8)

Someone mentioned reversed waveform shapes for the LFO, that sounds interesting IMO.

Also, having the LFO L.E.D. pulse based on the frequency would be nice.
However, if they end up adding reverse LFO shapes I can see this conflicting with pulsing L.E.D.s.

For example you could have the L.E.D. blink to indicate the shape is reversed.

At the end of the day I'm very pleased with my P10.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2021, 03:48:36 AM by echoloch »
Korg Mono/Poly, Sequential Prophet 10 Rev4, Buchla Music Easel

Re: Prophet 10 voice layering.
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2021, 09:09:44 AM »
Poly unison sounds great on my P10.

The only niggle I have is HOW MUCH PRESSING you have to do to scroll to PU2 in the menu while holding unison.

As poly unison, for me at least, is going to be used far more frequently than normal unison it would have been very cool to have it easier to access. Either by putting PUT to the LEFT of '1' so only 1 press needed from scratch OR to hold down unsion and press the 'preset' button to immediately put it in POLY unison mode instead of having to scroll.. Yeah I know once it's programmed you can just hit the unison button on and off but it's something I'll want to try out on almost EVERY patch I ever create, far more than a mono '1' or stacked 6-10 voices... so it would make sense and be a lot less button clicking and time wasting. Please consider it Sequential! (You could still additionally leave it where it is at the end of the menu to not upset people if a simple "UNISON" + "PRESET" would set it to PU2 instantly anyway).

I agree regarding the number of times that the "Bank Select" needs to be pressed in order to access the PU2 mode. Maybe Sequential could consider moving it to the top of the list (i.e. PU02, 1, 2, 3..., 10, Chorus).

Also, reverse LFO waveforms (esp saw which rev 4 is sorely lacking) by double clicking the LFO waveform button to reverse it.. it would open up a BIG world of sound with such simple additions, things that are already on the P6 IIRC and this is a much more expensive and cherisable synth, shame to hold it back entirely to what the past had just to be 'authentic' when it's already had some much needed tweaks for Rev 4.

Yup. Great suggestions

Re: Prophet 10 voice layering.
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2021, 10:11:50 AM »
Poly unison sounds great on my P10.

The only niggle I have is HOW MUCH PRESSING you have to do to scroll to PU2 in the menu while holding unison.

As poly unison, for me at least, is going to be used far more frequently than normal unison it would have been very cool to have it easier to access. Either by putting PUT to the LEFT of '1' so only 1 press needed from scratch OR to hold down unsion and press the 'preset' button to immediately put it in POLY unison mode instead of having to scroll.. Yeah I know once it's programmed you can just hit the unison button on and off but it's something I'll want to try out on almost EVERY patch I ever create, far more than a mono '1' or stacked 6-10 voices... so it would make sense and be a lot less button clicking and time wasting. Please consider it Sequential! (You could still additionally leave it where it is at the end of the menu to not upset people if a simple "UNISON" + "PRESET" would set it to PU2 instantly anyway).

I agree regarding the number of times that the "Bank Select" needs to be pressed in order to access the PU2 mode. Maybe Sequential could consider moving it to the top of the list (i.e. PU02, 1, 2, 3..., 10, Chorus).

Also, reverse LFO waveforms (esp saw which rev 4 is sorely lacking) by double clicking the LFO waveform button to reverse it.. it would open up a BIG world of sound with such simple additions, things that are already on the P6 IIRC and this is a much more expensive and cherisable synth, shame to hold it back entirely to what the past had just to be 'authentic' when it's already had some much needed tweaks for Rev 4.

Yup. Great suggestions

I would just suggest that the "Bank Select" just cycles endless so you can go the other, shorter direction. 

Re: Prophet 10 voice layering.
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2021, 02:30:59 AM »
Poly unison sounds great on my P10.

The only niggle I have is HOW MUCH PRESSING you have to do to scroll to PU2 in the menu while holding unison.

As poly unison, for me at least, is going to be used far more frequently than normal unison it would have been very cool to have it easier to access. Either by putting PUT to the LEFT of '1' so only 1 press needed from scratch OR to hold down unsion and press the 'preset' button to immediately put it in POLY unison mode instead of having to scroll.. Yeah I know once it's programmed you can just hit the unison button on and off but it's something I'll want to try out on almost EVERY patch I ever create, far more than a mono '1' or stacked 6-10 voices... so it would make sense and be a lot less button clicking and time wasting. Please consider it Sequential! (You could still additionally leave it where it is at the end of the menu to not upset people if a simple "UNISON" + "PRESET" would set it to PU2 instantly anyway).

I agree regarding the number of times that the "Bank Select" needs to be pressed in order to access the PU2 mode. Maybe Sequential could consider moving it to the top of the list (i.e. PU02, 1, 2, 3..., 10, Chorus).

Also, reverse LFO waveforms (esp saw which rev 4 is sorely lacking) by double clicking the LFO waveform button to reverse it.. it would open up a BIG world of sound with such simple additions, things that are already on the P6 IIRC and this is a much more expensive and cherisable synth, shame to hold it back entirely to what the past had just to be 'authentic' when it's already had some much needed tweaks for Rev 4.

Yup. Great suggestions

I would just suggest that the "Bank Select" just cycles endless so you can go the other, shorter direction.

I was just about to suggest this, menu wraparound would solve this problem easily.

Re: Prophet 10 voice layering.
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2021, 08:54:20 PM »
Menu wraparound would work, but I still think for this particular 'special feature' that something less menu-y would be nice hence my unison+preset combo to instantly turn on PU2 - overiding any other preset unison setting (cos if you're at say 5/6 voices you're STILL gonna have to scroll a while to hit PU2 and poly unison is a distinct feature aside from just the number of voices selectable in a mono unison feature... menu diving for number of voices kinda makes sense on a simple layout synth like this but to activate PU2 to overide either full poly or current mono/unison...well the 2 button combo would be great  imo, much like init a patch is rec+preset and not a menu dive. Disabling PU2 with another unison+preset button press would revert the unsion/poly setting to the stored setting (for example mono unison  with 5 voices.. or NO unison full poly). Makes sense and would be simple to do I think and make PU2 even more of a highlight on this stunning synth! :) Obv it lacks a dedicated button now, added after the  fact, but that simple selection would be great.

And def in addition - menu wraparound for normal amount of unison voices selection (+ chord +PU2 aswell)



« Last Edit: February 27, 2021, 08:55:59 PM by SynthHead »
Prophet 10 Rev 4 | Prologue 16

Micky

Re: Prophet 10 voice layering.
« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2021, 07:00:31 AM »
Is it possible to hear some examples ?
Nowhere to find in the net...
Cant imagine really, how that sounds, how subtile, massive and impressive it works.
This feature makes me really thinking about ordering this synth next to my OB6 and P6 !
Would be thankfull !
« Last Edit: March 14, 2021, 07:03:39 AM by Micky »

LPF83

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Re: Prophet 10 voice layering.
« Reply #15 on: March 14, 2021, 08:23:58 AM »
Is it possible to hear some examples ?
Nowhere to find in the net...

I'm attaching a couple of sound examples.  These in no way demonstrate the full spectrum of how the PU2 feature can sound, but should give the basic idea.  I attempted to level the volume differences across all of them -- of course when you turn PU2 on with the Rev4 the gain is boosted which has a "wow" effect in itself, but I wanted to eliminate the volume gain from the comparison test.

For both sounds, unison detune is set to 2, which of course has no effect on the plain version.

One might be inclined to think fatter always sounds better -- in these solo examples that's probably true.  Sometimes in a mix thinner is better though.


Prophet 10, Prophet 6, OB-6, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Toraiz AS-1, Moog SlimPhatty, Hydrasynth desktop, Korg Minilogue XDm, Roland SPD-30, Roland SPD-SX Special Edition, Roland KT-10, Maschine, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd Gen + Octopre, Strymon Pedals, Cubase Pro 11.

LPF83

  • ***
  • 651
Re: Prophet 10 voice layering.
« Reply #16 on: March 14, 2021, 08:25:20 AM »
Is it possible to hear some examples ?
Nowhere to find in the net...

I'm attaching a couple of sound examples.  These in no way demonstrate the full spectrum of how the PU2 feature can sound, but should give the basic idea.  I attempted to level the volume differences across all of them -- of course when you turn PU2 on with the Rev4 the gain is boosted which has a "wow" effect in itself, but I wanted to eliminate the volume gain from the comparison test.

For both sounds, unison detune is set to 2, which of course has no effect on the plain version.

One might be inclined to think fatter always sounds better -- in these solo examples that's probably true.  Sometimes in a mix thinner is better though.

Attaching files for Sound #2 to second post -- attachments too large.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2021, 08:27:25 AM by LPF83 »
Prophet 10, Prophet 6, OB-6, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Toraiz AS-1, Moog SlimPhatty, Hydrasynth desktop, Korg Minilogue XDm, Roland SPD-30, Roland SPD-SX Special Edition, Roland KT-10, Maschine, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd Gen + Octopre, Strymon Pedals, Cubase Pro 11.

Micky

Re: Prophet 10 voice layering.
« Reply #17 on: March 15, 2021, 12:01:48 AM »
Is it possible to hear some examples ?
Nowhere to find in the net...

I'm attaching a couple of sound examples.  These in no way demonstrate the full spectrum of how the PU2 feature can sound, but should give the basic idea.  I attempted to level the volume differences across all of them -- of course when you turn PU2 on with the Rev4 the gain is boosted which has a "wow" effect in itself, but I wanted to eliminate the volume gain from the comparison test.

For both sounds, unison detune is set to 2, which of course has no effect on the plain version.

One might be inclined to think fatter always sounds better -- in these solo examples that's probably true.  Sometimes in a mix thinner is better though.

Attaching files for Sound #2 to second post -- attachments too large.
Thank you...

Re: Prophet 10 voice layering.
« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2021, 12:29:48 PM »
Is it possible to hear some examples ?
Nowhere to find in the net...

I'm attaching a couple of sound examples.  These in no way demonstrate the full spectrum of how the PU2 feature can sound, but should give the basic idea.  I attempted to level the volume differences across all of them -- of course when you turn PU2 on with the Rev4 the gain is boosted which has a "wow" effect in itself, but I wanted to eliminate the volume gain from the comparison test.

For both sounds, unison detune is set to 2, which of course has no effect on the plain version.

One might be inclined to think fatter always sounds better -- in these solo examples that's probably true.  Sometimes in a mix thinner is better though.

Attaching files for Sound #2 to second post -- attachments too large.

Sounds wicked bud!
Every man dies, not every man really lives.
-William Wallace

Prophet 10rev4, KArp Odyssey, Nord Grand, MPCX,
Radial KL8 mixer, Sonor drums, Sabian HHX pies 😎