Firmware upgrade?

consequential · « **on:** January 13, 2021, 07:31:34 AM »

Hello everyone,

Does anyone know when whether we can expect Sequential to upgrade the firmware of the Prophet Rev2 anytime soon?

It's a wonderful synth but there are quite a few bugs, it seems to me, that are at once substantial and well reported on this forum. It is the first synth that I bought from Sequential and, after two years, I'm a bit perplexed by the fact that this synth is still not fully functioning the way that it is supposed to, especially as new synths are being released by the company.

timboréale · « **Reply #1 on:** January 13, 2021, 08:05:09 AM »

Hard to say. DSI has both pros and cons to their software support history.

The Tempest is notoriously buggy (moreso than the Rev2, arguably) but it was being sold new until very recently, several years after its last update. But the MPE and Vintage knob updates to the P6 and OB-6 have been encouraging (and unexpected). That said, the P6/OB-6 firmware had far less to do than the Rev2's, so they were probably much simpler to work on and might even have shared code with the new Prophet 5, making it nearly trivial to port.

So it's anybody's guess as to whether we'll see any more updates to the Rev2.

For me, the Rev2 is perfectly functional and despite some annoyances I haven't encountered (yet) any bugs that make it not able to do what I expect it to do as a Prophet, so while they are certainly bugs, I don't think they prevent it from being a very useful synth in it's own right. My Nord Lead 3 has more (and more serious) bugs, in my opinion, and it's still a very useable and enjoyable synth too.

Sacred Synthesis · « **Reply #2 on:** January 13, 2021, 09:57:14 AM »

Relax. It's coming. Have you noticed the other updates that have been recently released? All things in order.

jok3r · « **Reply #3 on:** January 13, 2021, 10:07:25 AM »

Quote from: Sacred Synthesis on January 13, 2021, 09:57:14 AM

Relax. It's coming, and soon.

I remember you saying this in this forum some months ago... what is your definition of "soon"?

I can't stand it anymore. I need to know if there will be a global LFO... I also want to have the vintage knob instead of slop like the P6 got recently, but I could live without if this is not possible, because as we all know, the Rev2 can handle that otherwise. But the global LFO...
I'm really missing playing big chords, changing only one note, and get the new voices LFOs in sync with where the remaining ones are. Yes, free running LFOs per voice are cool, too... but sometimes you just need them to be in phase.

Sacred Synthesis · « **Reply #4 on:** January 13, 2021, 10:22:59 AM »

I know, I know. I'm as impatient with this as anyone. My present set up has a huge hole in it that leaves me unable to create the music I want to, music that has been knocking around my head for many months and that I'm anxious to finish and record.

My time references on the update are on the scale of eternity. That should cover me into the future. But I've been told repeatedly that the update is almost ready to be released. I've recklessly played the cheerleader in this to keep people from giving up hope.

jok3r · « **Reply #5 on:** January 13, 2021, 10:56:11 AM »

My hope is endless in this case. I could even wait a little more, if I knew that the update would raise the instrument to the next level...

I'm just really curious, what the update will bring. Will there be new features, or are there "just" bug fixes? There are so many feature requests that got bumped up again and again. It be very nice, if they implemented at least the (supposedly) easier ones.

Sacred Synthesis · « **Reply #6 on:** January 13, 2021, 11:42:01 AM »

Quote from: jok3r on January 13, 2021, 10:56:11 AM

I'm just really curious, what the update will bring. Will there be new features, or are there "just" bug fixes? There are so many feature requests that got bumped up again and again. It be very nice, if they implemented at least the (supposedly) easier ones.

I have no idea of the specifics.

creativespiral · « **Reply #7 on:** January 13, 2021, 12:13:20 PM »

New features would be really nice (ie: a global/mono LFO mode, vintage knob), but not holding my breath. If they can just fix the known, repeatable bugs, that would be top priority.

Fixing the gated sequencer is my #1 request:

Support Ticket 48090 - Confirmed Bug
Gated Sequencer does not advance properly when using both layers in Key Step mode.

A fix to this would improve voice modeling capabilities with the Rev2, allowing for multiple layers to correctly advance key stepped sequences, and also allow proper working patches with dual layer syncopated sequences using the Gated Sequencer key step with arp -

The Rev2 is potentially capable of pulling off some amazingly complex sequenced patterns by stacking Layer A and B with arps and key stepped sequences running, but because of this bug, you can't do it... You can only have key step sequencer active on one layer... if you engage the second layer in stack, it botches/jumbles the sequences.

Crossing my fingers

jok3r · « **Reply #8 on:** January 13, 2021, 01:57:46 PM »

Yes, it would be great if this got fixed. I don't use arps and sequencers very much, but I see the point in it and why it definitely should be fixed.

I thought about the mono/global LFO stuff a bit and came to the conclusion, that it be enough to make a fixed one of the LFOs (e.g. LFO4) configurable as mono/global per MISC menue. That would add only one new menue point to the user interface and would be enough for most use cases I think (the behaviour I want to have is mostly seen on synths with only one LFO).

A potential problem could be that it is possible to modulate this one LFO with the other ones. So I guess all this modulation routes would add up / cancel out in a very crazy way. On the other hand I think this is also the case when modulating the effect parameters. So it should be possible. As I wrote this I realized, a global LFO would be especially nice for modulating the global effects parameters...

AlainHubert · « **Reply #9 on:** January 13, 2021, 10:32:35 PM »

Not only a unified LFO, but also a single unified random value for all voices when Random LFO waveform is selected. And not an unusable mishmash of different random values for each voice!

jok3r · « **Reply #10 on:** January 14, 2021, 12:17:15 AM »

Quote from: AlainHubert on January 13, 2021, 10:32:35 PM

Not only a unified LFO, but also a single unified random value for all voices when Random LFO waveform is selected. And not an unusable mishmash of different random values for each voice!

Yeah, you're right. I just didn't mention it explicitly, because I took that for granted when we are talking about a real global/mono LFO.

jok3r · « **Reply #11 on:** January 22, 2021, 05:05:08 PM »

Seems like Sequential's developers are still working on the P6/OB6 firmware at the moment.

I hope they will sort everything out quickly, so they can work on the Rev2 Update.

Just played mine for about two hours without noticing time. It's such a joy. The timing for an update with some new features would be just perfect, so I have something to distract myself, until I have saved up for a P10

It's such a fine instrument, it just deserves to get something new, if all its brothers and sisters got something, too.

Sacred Synthesis · « **Reply #12 on:** January 23, 2021, 01:08:52 PM »

The latest update I've been given is not good news. I really have no idea, but I would guess it may be two or three months before we see this last update.

jok3r · « **Reply #13 on:** January 24, 2021, 01:10:10 PM »

Quote from: Sacred Synthesis on January 23, 2021, 01:08:52 PM

The latest update I've been given is not good news. I really have no idea, but I would guess it may be two or three months before we see this last update.

Actually, the real bad news in your post is, that it will be the LAST update... whenever it will come ;-)

AlainHubert · « **Reply #14 on:** January 24, 2021, 03:39:43 PM »

We have to remind ourselves of how lucky we are to have ANY update at all. Because back in the days of the original Prophet 5, there weren't any such readily available and downloadable free software updates. What you bought was what you got. No more additional features.

But then again, that software was on ROM chips, and didn't contain any bugs either. Not like today with too many synths coming out with half-baked software, relying on customers to serve as beta testers.

LPF83 · « **Reply #15 on:** January 24, 2021, 03:49:39 PM »

Quote from: AlainHubert on January 24, 2021, 03:39:43 PM

We have to remind ourselves of how lucky we are to have ANY update at all. Because back in the days of the original Prophet 5, there weren't any such readily available and downloadable free software updates. What you bought was what you got. No more additional features.

But then again, that software was on ROM chips, and didn't contain any bugs either. Not like today with too many synths coming out with half-baked software, relying on customers to serve as beta testers.

The Prophet 5 was notorious for bugs, and so were Oberheims. I remember people talking about they were terrified to go on stage with them for fear that they would crap the bed.

"It was so far ahead of the competition that it became an instant phenomenon, in spite of the fact that its reliability - or lack of it - was to become almost as legendary as its performance. One employee of Rod Argent's Keyboards (the Prophet's importers) set it to the tune of Buggles' 'Video Killed the Radio Star': "I bought a Prophet from you just the other day, I turned it on and all the programs went away, ooh-wee-ooh we should have told you, ooh-wee-ooh that's what they all do"."

http://www.muzines.co.uk/articles/return-of-the-prophet/378 (link recently posted in the P5/P10 forum)

.. Yet all old analogs were flawed in some way and the P5 still went down as one of the best synths ever made.

Sometimes memories of days gone by are romanticized from what they actually were

jok3r · « **Reply #16 on:** January 24, 2021, 05:06:15 PM »

Quote from: AlainHubert on January 24, 2021, 03:39:43 PM

We have to remind ourselves of how lucky we are to have ANY update at all.

You're absolutely right. I didn't want to give the impression that I see it as Sequentials duty to publish furthers updates. I can perfectly live without any further updates at all without breaking with Sequential, because I really bought the Rev2 for what it is... or what it was then. But since I see them doing updates with new features for basically all their products, I think it's not too greedy to at least hope

I can imagine that it's not so easy to add a lot more to the Rev2, because of remaining code space. I guess they have "recycled" and "tuned" the Prophet 08 platform almost to the limit it can actually handle. Perhaps they could do an alternative system where they cut some of the effects and add some other useful stuff instead. I would sacrifice ring mod for a global LFO

That makes me think of a modular configurable firmware, where the user can choose from a set of additional features or "user features" online. Configure your feature set to your will and download a corresponding sysex file afterwards. I guess that will never happen... but it's an interesting thought. I better should go to sleep now... it's very late around here ;-)

AlainHubert · « **Reply #17 on:** January 24, 2021, 10:25:13 PM »

Quote from: LPF83 on January 24, 2021, 03:49:39 PM

The Prophet 5 was notorious for bugs, and so were Oberheims. I remember people talking about they were terrified to go on stage with them for fear that they would crap the bed.

Those were not software bugs but rather hardware bugs. Unreliable electronic parts, and unreliable build sometimes. Especially connectors coming loose inside (when moving those heavy synths around). Contacts becoming oxidized.

AlainHubert · « **Reply #18 on:** January 24, 2021, 10:27:45 PM »

Quote from: jok3r on January 24, 2021, 05:06:15 PM

... I would sacrifice ring mod for a global LFO

So would I.

LPF83 · « **Reply #19 on:** January 25, 2021, 06:26:22 AM »

Quote from: AlainHubert on January 24, 2021, 10:25:13 PM

Quote from: LPF83 on January 24, 2021, 03:49:39 PM

The Prophet 5 was notorious for bugs, and so were Oberheims. I remember people talking about they were terrified to go on stage with them for fear that they would crap the bed.

Those were not software bugs but rather hardware bugs. Unreliable electronic parts, and unreliable build sometimes. Especially connectors coming loose inside (when moving those heavy synths around). Contacts becoming oxidized.

From someone who has been hands-on in the field software engineering for now approaching 40 years, I can tell you that the notion of "'bug free" software simply does not exist, and never has, on any platform, in any language. There are only varying levels of robustness.

At least these days, the ease of updates is (sometimes) the savior. In the old days, software on chips that couldn't be updated without a manufacturing recall and physical replacement was, in effect, considered hardware.

I will say that, so far, the P10 appears to be vastly less buggy than my Rev2. Then again, it is a simpler device. Overall I'd say the launch of this product is outstanding, minus of course the early unit capacitor issue. Compare that to the launch of the original P5 Rev1, a notoriously unstable product that was quickly replaced with the Rev 2.