The Official Sequential/DSI Forum

Issues w FW updates people have - how much is due on no proprietary updater?

Larioso

I saw no recommendation of pauses between blocks for sysex sent - my Casio CZ for 80's had such mentioned for synth to be able to receive all properly. If it was 100ms or something.

Quite a few issues in Bug thread - seems could be such issue and internals become screwed up. So seems not even any checksum is used as this can happend.

I see two solutions:

#1. When having updaters that do it all - it is designed so the synth can handle everything with the right pauses.

Drawback is a PC and Mac versions is needed.

#2. Specify what pauses are recommended

I did loads of sysex sent to midi gear with Sonar sysex manager, and there are settings for proper pauses between sent bytes etc.

So the suggested software should have these options, I assume.

Some from Sonar documentation what you can configurate. Essential in the largest transfers I did.

SysxSendDelayMsecs=n
This setting causes SONAR to delay n milliseconds if it encounters an F7 in a System Exclusive bank, but only if the line SysxDelayAfterF7=n is not zero. The line SysxDelayAfterF7=n enables a delay between Sysx messages, while the line SysxSendDelayMsecs=n sets the size of the delay.
n = 60 Default value (in milliseconds)
SysxDelayAfterF7=n
This setting causes SONAR to delay Sysx transmission for a certain amount of time if it encounters an F7 in a System Exclusive bank. This gives some instruments the required amount of “breathing” time necessary to process the Sysx transmission. The default delay is 1/18 of a second, but can be changed by also adding the SysxSendDelayMsecs=n line, where n is the number of milliseconds that the delay lasts.
The possible values of n in the line SysxDelayAfterF7=n are 0 and 1. Their significance is as follows:
n = 0 No delay
n = 1 Delay between each Sysx message
SysxSendPacketSize=n
System Exclusive bytes are transmitted in packets, with a 1/18-second default delay between each packet. Setting this value to a smaller number will help slower synthesizers avoid overflowing their internal buffers. This line sets the number of bytes between each Sysx transmit delay.
n = 1024 Default value (in bytes)


That syx file is one single block over 1 MB also create issues where some managers goes by pauses between blocks etc. But in case of Sonar it does by bytes sent as well, so no problem. Dump files in general have several F0....F7 blocks, I guess firmware is special case in many regards.

Just some wild ideas.....I have postponed my REV2 purchase until bugs of internal character are gone.

Larioso

I mean DSI discard a range of interfaces as problems for doing system updates - when I think it has to do with something else - like pauses in between - so synth has time to save away buffers.

Such a large range of interfaces are not good enough - I think problem is with some else.

The longest sysex I encoutered as dumps were on Hammond - which packaged everything in blocks,              if it was 100 bytes where each block had checksum. That was just 100 kB size for XK3.

If doing something huge like over 1 MB - in one stretch and just checksum - seems like pretty big risk. At least one hope proper CRC or hash is used at end before F7 at end - to know this is every byte and unaltered.

Never saw such a big series of interfaces discarded as not good enough. And reading all kinds of strange startup issues I read in threads here after doing updates.

I have incrementally upgraded my Rev2 with each new release...  have probably done 15 updates over the past two years and never had an issue.   I use MIDI-OX for all my firmware upgrades on synths. 

Overall, the Rev2 has been rock solid for me.   Yes, there have been some bugs along the way, but most everything has been patched after being reported...  Also, they've added some new functionality.  There are a few more bugs that have been reported in the past couple months...  I'm guessing they'll be addressed in upcoming updates.



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Larioso

Thank you for input.
But it is 8 months since last fw update.
Looking in release history there is sometimes a single thing fixed - AND YET AN UPDATE.
So REV2 feels abandoned to me.

The very last thing I learned from manual was how gated sequencer works - really cool thing making even like 4 more envelopes, kind of. Really like that thinking, and then ability to use as source for more destination than that sequencer track through matrix. So I made up my mind and purchased.

Then read a report on not having slew work in this in matrix - but he was not sure if a bug.

Does it work fully as for destination for sequencer track or not?
Or are there limitations - seems like slew should work for track 2 and 4?

And this turned me off - and I cancelled order, luckily not shipped yet from germany.
Never had to deal with bugs, that did not already have a new fw waiting for me, having had midi gear since 80's.

One guy reporting bug read like he felt abandoned in some other gear he bought as DSI. That REV2 now is abandoned as well.

And back to topic - I had my first commercial software out in the 80's - a data communications program for pc - so been doing a lot of that since then too. So have my view why some midi interfaces are giving problems - when it's probably about protocol used for updates that is too simple in REV2. You just don't send 1 100 000 bytes in one go and expect that to work for everybody. So they start to blaim interfaces instead.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2019, 11:53:03 PM by Larioso »

Well, if you're looking for a synth with extensive modulation possibilities, the Rev2 is an ideal candidate.   There's just not many other hardware synths out there that can compete.   The Moog One is probably the most fully featured mod matrix system, but four times the cost.   The Peak and forthcoming Summit are comparable, but based on what I've read, I still prefer the mod capabilities of the Rev2...   in regards to Gated Sequencer, I use it all the time (and in ways that are unique and push the limits... check out the article I put together on voice modeling topic)   

The Gated Seq and Matrix in the Rev2 are very flexible, if that's what you're looking for... yes, there are still some minor bugs I'd like to see fixed, but I'm guessing they'll get to them soon.   Regarding the slew limitations... honestly, I doubt you'll run into many situations where two slewed sequence tracks is not enough for your needs.   The implementation of the slew is sort of unique on the Rev... instead of being a "global slew" for all steps, its adjustable on a step by step basis... I think that's why there's the limitation on certain tracks.  I haven't really used it much... but when I have, two tracks have been plenty for my needs. 

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Larioso

Thank you, appreciate your input.
I've been checking for months evaluating current market and those soon to be synths.
So if anything worth having, it's REV2 - so agree fully with you there.

Extensive xmods is headroom for me, since a couple of years doing video as well - so sound design on the table, not only playable patches.

Talked to Clavia if they could reveal what is around the corner - since nobody does so creative synths that are fun to work with. And their thinking is really part of REV2 seem to be - really smart handling of xmod - just touching knobs for source and destination. But Clavia had nothing they could say now.

But why is a Beta still not arrived as a release candidate for 8 months was really disturbing. And still a list of reports on issues. Looked through release history but got no timestamps of the various releases - so have no clue on intervals.

Then looking at a list of midi interfaces not recommended not to use for updates - I created this thread as my experience with communications is extensive - and felt maybe some issues are due to too simplified transport of midi over to REV2 for OS. Something off here.

No data communciations, not even on internet or any network - do more than 2000 bytes in a block with crc as checksum principle - and here they expect 1 100 000 bytes just to stream over without interruption to device. And instead of looking at protocol used - they start a list of midi interfaces not to use.

Even my very first synth a CZ1000 1985 - had instructions and tips with pauses to make between when sending sysex to it. And see nothing of this sort - which I feel is relevant in this case.

Receiving device need to empty buffers and get time to do that in between - and check each block that crc(or chatever checksum principle used) is ok.

So look at what Sonar, now Cakewalk by Bandlab which is free, has as parameters - and you can see they really know something about communications.

So summing up a bit
- really long since last release candidate despite quite a list of reports - one of which is vital to me
- somewhat weird way of doing os update and getting all off conclusions what is the problem for some people

I lost all confidence in DSI. I don't know if this can be repaired - but at least thought if I could wake them up with some noise here to help existing owners. One guy in bug thread expressed something like DSI have before abandoned models with something serious lingering and not fixed.

It's not cheap units any of them - so the feeling of buying something that will remain buggy is not nice.

I heard a Prophet 5 in the 80's at a friends place - and that sound never left me. So been really curious of anything Prophet. I even got my first Nordlead due to that they replicated factory presets of Prophet 5 in rom. My Nordlead 2X has it too, even if those does not turn me on that much now.

Looked at Prophet 6 - but not enough xmods to be modern version for me. Mono synths - not for me. Looked at OB-6, but same about xmodes - will not extend what I can do enough, even having more filter types. So all pointing at REV2.

As I am writing I am doing some self therapy here trying if I can eventually repair trust in DSI - will see how that goes - if a release candidate of os arrive soon.

My Nordlead 2X is v1.00 - and no other was necessary to release. I know that does not go for all of the Nordleads - just one story. Nordlead A1 was v1.34 after 18 months. Here is REV2 after two years and have not seen an update in a long while with quite a list of issues.

DSI - it's sloppy handling and understaffed it seems to me.

Thanks for your contributions you did - I bookmarked your thread on stuff that is up my alley - digging into the nitty gritty stuff. :)