The Official Sequential/DSI Forum

ARP beat Sync

aeonn

ARP beat Sync
« on: October 03, 2018, 03:07:36 AM »
Ok, I have been waiting for this feature for a while and I was excited to update the firmware to the latest beta to check it out. So yesterday I switched on my Rev2 and selected a plucky preset of mine, activated the arp and latch on, then I selected “Quantize” under the global>Arp Sync menu, and played a bit.
But I was astonished by the result. It’s not what I imagined Arp Sync would be like.
It seems like it doesn’t change anything at all. I keep hearing the arp phrase starting over as soon as I hit the keys instead of waiting for the next beat.

Also, I don’t get the difference between Arp hold, sustain & momentary hold.

Could someone enlighten me on this ? I might have misunderstood something... :-\

Re: ARP beat Sync
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2018, 11:02:19 AM »
Good question. Following.
IMac Mid 2013, Cubase 9Pro, Prophet Rev 2 8voice

Re: ARP beat Sync
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2018, 01:18:56 PM »
Arp Beat Sync quantizes your performance from the keyboard so each note you play conforms to a clock reference, be it the internal clock of the instrument, or external MIDI clock.

With Arp Beat Sync enabled, and the synth syncing to its internal clock, the first depressed key will not trigger until the master clock gets back around to "the 1”, depending on the selected clock division. This is how you can be sure that you're quantized properly. The "1" is denoted visually by the blink of the tap temp LED.

When Arp Beat Sync is enabled and you are slaved to external clock, the arp will quantize the the MIDI clock tic that is received concurrently with a MIDI Start command.

Regarding the Sustain Arp global options, these control how an attached sustain pedal affects the synth when the arpeggiator is enabled. Arp Hold and Arp Hold Momentary basically act as a foot control for the HOLD button, allowing you to use both hands for playing/tweaking, rather than having to manually press the HOLD button. The former latches the HOLD button, while the latter engages it only while the pedal is depressed. The Sustain option works just like a sustain pedal normally does, where while the pedal is depressed, the envelopes for all triggered voices are held at their Sustain stage.

I hope this helps!
SEQUENTIAL

Re: ARP beat Sync
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2018, 08:54:13 PM »
Arp Beat Sync quantizes your performance from the keyboard so each note you play conforms to a clock reference, be it the internal clock of the instrument, or external MIDI clock.

With Arp Beat Sync enabled, and the synth syncing to its internal clock, the first depressed key will not trigger until the master clock gets back around to "the 1”, depending on the selected clock division. This is how you can be sure that you're quantized properly. The "1" is denoted visually by the blink of the tap temp LED.

When Arp Beat Sync is enabled and you are slaved to external clock, the arp will quantize the the MIDI clock tic that is received concurrently with a MIDI Start command.

Regarding the Sustain Arp global options, these control how an attached sustain pedal affects the synth when the arpeggiator is enabled. Arp Hold and Arp Hold Momentary basically act as a foot control for the HOLD button, allowing you to use both hands for playing/tweaking, rather than having to manually press the HOLD button. The former latches the HOLD button, while the latter engages it only while the pedal is depressed. The Sustain option works just like a sustain pedal normally does, where while the pedal is depressed, the envelopes for all triggered voices are held at their Sustain stage.

I hope this helps!
Thank you for explaining!
IMac Mid 2013, Cubase 9Pro, Prophet Rev 2 8voice

cbx

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Re: ARP beat Sync
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2018, 06:50:39 PM »
I think it corrects a minor glitch in the original synth, where it is possible to press a key slightly off beat and you get really strange beats going. Sometimes, it can be cool if you have 8 of those voices all out sync, but usually you don't want this to happen when you are playing on stage.

aeonn

Re: ARP beat Sync
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2018, 03:26:10 PM »
Ok so I get what the Arp hold, sustain and hold momentary are.

I tried playing with the arpeggiator with quantize mode and it works as explained as long as you keep at least one finger on a key between the chords changing.

The thing is that I would like to use the “hold” function so the arpeggiator is running continuously while I tweak the parameters I want, and change the chords from time to time (assuming that I already have selected the Latch ON). So in therory, if I hit a different chord, the arp should only start once it has finished its cycle, or it should only start at the first beat of the arp sequence.
Problem is when I do that, and when I purposely hit my next chord slightly off beat, the arp starts over just like without the quantize mode.

So it seems that the HOLD function defeats the purpose of the quantize function... can anybody report the same behaviour? Is that intended or am I too dumb to understand what a beat-Sync arp should be ?

I get a very different behaviour from my Subsequent37 for instance, because it really follows the beat whatever I do and even when the latch mode is selected.

Another thing I have noticed : when the arp is running and I press “global” I can see a step count going from 0 to 16 in the bottom left corner of the screen. And it starts over every time I hit a different chord. I just wonder why it is a 16 steps counter since the arp sequence has a different length according to the number of keys I play together.

shiihs

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Re: ARP beat Sync
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2018, 06:06:38 AM »
I just wonder why it is a 16 steps counter since the arp sequence has a different length according to the number of keys I play together.

At last something I know :D It displays the voice being used.
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aeonn

Re: ARP beat Sync
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2018, 12:34:36 PM »
At last something I know :D It displays the voice being used.
Oh ok, thanks for the info ;)

Re: ARP beat Sync
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2018, 07:45:49 AM »
Ok so I get what the Arp hold, sustain and hold momentary are.

I tried playing with the arpeggiator with quantize mode and it works as explained as long as you keep at least one finger on a key between the chords changing.

The thing is that I would like to use the “hold” function so the arpeggiator is running continuously while I tweak the parameters I want, and change the chords from time to time (assuming that I already have selected the Latch ON). So in therory, if I hit a different chord, the arp should only start once it has finished its cycle, or it should only start at the first beat of the arp sequence.
Problem is when I do that, and when I purposely hit my next chord slightly off beat, the arp starts over just like without the quantize mode.

So it seems that the HOLD function defeats the purpose of the quantize function... can anybody report the same behaviour? Is that intended or am I too dumb to understand what a beat-Sync arp should be ?

I get a very different behaviour from my Subsequent37 for instance, because it really follows the beat whatever I do and even when the latch mode is selected.

Another thing I have noticed : when the arp is running and I press “global” I can see a step count going from 0 to 16 in the bottom left corner of the screen. And it starts over every time I hit a different chord. I just wonder why it is a 16 steps counter since the arp sequence has a different length according to the number of keys I play together.

I can report the same behavior. I'm on firmware 1.1.4.26. On my REV2 the arp sometimes jumps a note and is quiet instead or it starts with the wrong note in the cycle. Not all the time but randomly. I have a Deepmind 12 that is spot on as a reference. When its set to arp up it always starts with the lowest note and in sync. On the REV 2 I cant be sure. It feels unstable.

aeonn

Re: ARP beat Sync
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2018, 01:05:05 PM »
Ok so I get what the Arp hold, sustain and hold momentary are.

I tried playing with the arpeggiator with quantize mode and it works as explained as long as you keep at least one finger on a key between the chords changing.

The thing is that I would like to use the “hold” function so the arpeggiator is running continuously while I tweak the parameters I want, and change the chords from time to time (assuming that I already have selected the Latch ON). So in therory, if I hit a different chord, the arp should only start once it has finished its cycle, or it should only start at the first beat of the arp sequence.
Problem is when I do that, and when I purposely hit my next chord slightly off beat, the arp starts over just like without the quantize mode.

So it seems that the HOLD function defeats the purpose of the quantize function... can anybody report the same behaviour? Is that intended or am I too dumb to understand what a beat-Sync arp should be ?

I get a very different behaviour from my Subsequent37 for instance, because it really follows the beat whatever I do and even when the latch mode is selected.

Another thing I have noticed : when the arp is running and I press “global” I can see a step count going from 0 to 16 in the bottom left corner of the screen. And it starts over every time I hit a different chord. I just wonder why it is a 16 steps counter since the arp sequence has a different length according to the number of keys I play together.

I can report the same behavior. I'm on firmware 1.1.4.26. On my REV2 the arp sometimes jumps a note and is quiet instead or it starts with the wrong note in the cycle. Not all the time but randomly. I have a Deepmind 12 that is spot on as a reference. When its set to arp up it always starts with the lowest note and in sync. On the REV 2 I cant be sure. It feels unstable.

Thanks for checking that and confirming the behaviour. I knew it wasn’t the expected behaviour of an Arp Beat Sync.

Arp Beat Sync nowhere near on tempo.
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2018, 09:20:53 AM »
Am I missing something here? My beat sync Arp (new-ish feature in a recent OS) is absolutely no where near being on rhythm. I know how to clock the prophet, I’ve been doing it for various functions since it came out, so it’s not a misunderstanding of midi or anything. But simply putting in an arpegiator and trying it with the beat sync feature on renders it absolutely useless, unless it’s such a fast division that you can’t tell it’s off rhythm...in which case the feature is without purpose anyway. Can anybody confirm this? Perhaps I should try Midi in rather than USB, until last week I’ve always done MIDI rather than USB, then instead of multiple midi cables I gave USB a try and found it just as stable.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2018, 09:23:23 AM by Troy92Evans »

Razmo

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Re: Arp Beat Sync nowhere near on tempo.
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2018, 10:35:06 AM »
There are issues with the Arp Beat Sync... there are some talk about it in dedicated threads already, and also it is mentioned in the bug report thread, so I guess SCI is aware of it... probably we'll see a fix in the next OS update :)
If you need me, follow the shadows...

Re: Arp Beat Sync nowhere near on tempo.
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2018, 12:56:23 PM »
Yeah I was hesitant to make a thread given I’d seen arp beat sync problems mentioned, but I went ahead because I kept seeing all the problems mention issues with relatch...which was so many steps (pun) beyond the fact that it doesn’t even attempt to adhere to tempo that I figured I was missing something basic.

aeonn

Re: Arp Beat Sync nowhere near on tempo.
« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2018, 01:38:53 PM »
I can confirm the arp beat sync issue. I have made a thread about it but it seems to be the case for everyone anyway. I was really annoyed not to be able to play the arp like a Juno does.

So, I guess a fix will appear in a future update, hopefully !

Re: Arp Beat Sync nowhere near on tempo.
« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2018, 02:43:52 PM »
Rather confusing...it’s so off that I can’t imagine anyone at DSI thought it was functional when they put it out? I love that they keep patching it and fixing everything up but what was the logic behind launching this?

Razmo

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Re: Arp Beat Sync nowhere near on tempo.
« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2018, 03:12:15 PM »
Rather confusing...it’s so off that I can’t imagine anyone at DSI thought it was functional when they put it out? I love that they keep patching it and fixing everything up but what was the logic behind launching this?

I did not notice it until others wrote about it... simply because I've not been using an arp patch in sync to something else yet... that way you simply press down keys, and you do not really hear that it's off because it sounds correct when you just hold keys down... you do not realize that it starts on the wrong beat and with any notes skipped... or at least i did not... you really have to use it in context with something else you want it to sync to, to hear it... and I bet SCI did not do that either.
If you need me, follow the shadows...

Re: Arp Beat Sync nowhere near on tempo.
« Reply #16 on: October 13, 2018, 02:42:51 PM »
Yeah that makes sense I suppose...I just figured tempo was an assumed consideration for arpegiators. Especially given that you can’t clock the lfo’s or anything with it then.  I’ll patiently await this patch!

Re: Arp Beat Sync nowhere near on tempo.
« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2018, 02:03:31 AM »
Rather confusing...it’s so off that I can’t imagine anyone at DSI thought it was functional when they put it out? I love that they keep patching it and fixing everything up but what was the logic behind launching this?

Bear in mind these are BETA releases for the purposes of testing so that a refined release version can be achieved. The final release version is the one that appears on the product’s download page as opposed to here on the forum. 

Re: ARP beat Sync
« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2018, 11:37:13 AM »
We have identified a bug pertaining to arp beat sync when arp relatch is enabled and HOLD is on. This is on our list. However, arp beat sync is working as expected when not set to relatch.

Keep in mind that beat sync is influenced by the selected clock division for your patch. Also, it's normal that there may be a pause between the first key press and the first note sounding, as when beat sync is enabled the first note won't sound until you get back to the "1".

We aren't able to constantly monitor this forum when it comes to bug reports or questions about functionality. Please email support directly with these inquiries! With specific questions on beat sync functionality, please don't forget to include your installed OS version, whether you're syncing to internal or external clock, and specific steps for reproducing the behavior you are inquiring about.

Thanks!
SEQUENTIAL

Re: ARP beat Sync
« Reply #19 on: October 18, 2018, 08:37:40 AM »
The aforementioned bug is fixed in BETA 1.1.4.27

 https://forum.sequential.com/index.php/topic,1531.0.html
SEQUENTIAL