The Official Sequential/DSI Forum

Why so few of us?

Re: Why so few of us?
« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2019, 11:36:21 PM »
Hello!
I'm a Prophet X owner...
I was looking for a space ship to travel across the Universe.
I find it.....but......
There is a problem with the main system...
As soon as it be fixed, I'll sell or exchange it to bring back a P12.
Fingers crossed to fix everything....
Then I'll be yours!!!!!

I'm curious what you guys and girls think about why there are so few P12 owners/players out there? (at least relative to other expensive polys). It might not be accurate, but I get that feeling based on number of articles, forum posts, for sale listings, etc. Don't get me wrong, I love my P12 and find it easy to use, but it does seem underrepresented in the synth community...

You are aware Sequential is discontinuing the P12 right?
Prophet 6, Prophet X, Moog Sub 37, Tempest Drum Computer, Roland V Piano, Fender American Stratocaster, Roger Linn Adrenalinn iii, Origin Effects Cali76 and SlideRig compressor, ASUS Zenbook Pro Computer, Soundcraft MTK 22 Mixer, Mark Of The Unicorn Digital Performer 10 Software.

DRM

Re: Why so few of us?
« Reply #21 on: January 21, 2019, 12:39:55 AM »
I'm curious what you guys and girls think about why there are so few P12 owners/players out there? (at least relative to other expensive polys). It might not be accurate, but I get that feeling based on number of articles, forum posts, for sale listings, etc. Don't get me wrong, I love my P12 and find it easy to use, but it does seem underrepresented in the synth community...
I think the reason is twofold:
#1 hobbyists are afraid of its digital sound generation and so the 'public image' of it is rather negative, not to mention there isn't a whole lot of content or emphasis on the amazing its (unique to modern) synthesizers that the silent majority know about
#2 the people who know what this synthesizer is capable of are generally silent (myself included, until now), but realize how insanely powerful it is and have an EXTREMELY positive outlook on it

In my opinion, one reason is the large number of Prophet 12 videos that terribly misrepresent its character.  There are so many YouTube demos that dwell exclusively on its caustic digital side, to the exclusion of its other abilities.  I fell for this misrepresentation myself, until I was finally able to borrow one.  The fact is, the P12 has a wonderful warmth to it, and it's not at all hard to find it, but it's not what seems to fascinate many owners.  It's a shame, because I found the instrument to be very strong in the domain of traditional analog sound, in addition to all the rest.

The very first moment that the Prophet 12 was demonstrated I was awestruck. Dave Smith literally built a modern synthesizer based around all of the principles I've come to know and understand after playing around with a host of synthesizers over the years. This is how I figured out it wasn't an "overpriced turd" as some have called it.

#1 Analog filters: they are more important than analog oscillators, especially considering I've not heard a good resonance from any software or digital hardware. This is a rather 'touchy' subject for most but it's true. The uniqueness of analog oscillators is practically discarded with most  80's and modern analog synths--this would be: a) impure waveforms due to primitive circuitry (i.e. an imperfect square that more resembles a hacked sawtooth), b) pitch variance across the oscillators, which DCOs negate! Any subtle aurally microscopic differences won't be discernible by 99% of those who claim they can hear a difference.
#2 Voice cycling: a synthesizer needs to cycle its (independent) voices to take advantage of a non-global portamento and pitch variance. Few (if any!) modern synthesizers capitalize on this...
#3 Independent portamento: I became obsessed with the Roland Jupiter-4's independent portamento (where each last voice will respond differently to the last note), and was sorely disappointed when virtually nothing does this as a 'feature'. It's far more interesting to listen to.
#4 Analog slop: you want each voice (or at least the option!) to detune one voice from another, otherwise with a perfectly tuned synthesizer or DCOs you lose quite a lot of dynamic.
#5 Flexible LFOs: it's really to have an LFO which can be extremely fast or slow, especially if you want to play with crude FM synthesis--there's no reason to limit it to being very slow

I suppose in lieu of all of that, this is (to me) this is practically a spiritual successor to the Roland Jupiter-4. I can set a random arpeggio with voice cycling and independent portamento and it's quite surreal how it feels almost the same. And then with four LFOs, I can punch in parameters to get a very convincing Vox Humana like from my Polymoog--and then take it a step further with the fourth LFO and stack feature.

Re: Why so few of us?
« Reply #22 on: January 31, 2019, 09:34:35 PM »
@DRM- I think you nailed it.  While I really like my P-08, the P-12 is so much more capable.  I like having it as a "secret weapon" in my arsenal. 

Jim Thorburn .  Toys-  Dave Smith: Prophet 08;
Pro 2; Prophet 12; EastWest Orchestral soft synths; Yamaha S-90; Yamaha Montage 8, Yamaha DX-7; KARP Odyssey; Ensoniq ESQ-1.  All run through a Sonar DAW with a Tascam DM-24 board.

laurentluigi

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Re: Why so few of us?
« Reply #23 on: March 06, 2019, 01:28:33 AM »
Hello!
I'm a Prophet X owner...
I was looking for a space ship to travel across the Universe.
I find it.....but......
There is a problem with the main system...
As soon as it be fixed, I'll sell or exchange it to bring back a P12.
Fingers crossed to fix everything....
Then I'll be yours!!!!!

I'm curious what you guys and girls think about why there are so few P12 owners/players out there? (at least relative to other expensive polys). It might not be accurate, but I get that feeling based on number of articles, forum posts, for sale listings, etc. Don't get me wrong, I love my P12 and find it easy to use, but it does seem underrepresented in the synth community...

You are aware Sequential is discontinuing the P12 right?


The team Prophet 12 and Prophet X .....
I leave the solar system every night, and, with the tips of this forum, I go a little further every night...
Thank You all.

Re: Why so few of us?
« Reply #24 on: March 07, 2019, 10:09:32 AM »
And behind all the controls of those two instruments I bet you do feel like a starship pilot ;)
DSI Equipment: Poly Evolver Keyboard, Evolver desktop, Prophet 8,  Pro-2, OB6, P-12
 

https://Soundcloud.com/wavescape-1

laurentluigi

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Re: Why so few of us?
« Reply #25 on: March 11, 2019, 06:00:58 AM »
And behind all the controls of those two instruments I bet you do feel like a starship pilot ;)

You're right !!!
Half way from Indiana Jones and Captain Kirk..... Indiana Kirk or Captain Jones...!!!


I'm going slidly mad...
« Last Edit: March 11, 2019, 06:05:53 AM by laurentluigi »

Razmo

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  • I am shadow...
    • Kaleidoscopic Artworks
Re: Why so few of us?
« Reply #26 on: March 14, 2019, 05:28:32 AM »
I'm not so sure that there are so few of us... may be in here, but I often see the P12 in a lot of studio video's on the net... i have a feeling that many use it some way or the other.

The many comments about it being "digital in nature" probably has to do with the audio rate modulation of the modulation matrix. It has been stated earlier that the P12 do it's matrix modulation at approx. 11Khz, and if you start to do audio rate modulation at that relatively low speed, and then bandlimit it afterwards to get rid of the aliasing, you get this kind of harsh and flat digital "glow" on the sound, especially when you start modulating pitch at the extremes... just try it out... when you use the standard features of simple subtractive synthesis on P12 without any FM, AM or other audio rate modulation going on in the digital domain, then the P12 sounds a lot more "analog" and clean... to further underline this, try the same audio rate modulation on a Novation PEAK and you'll not hear this digital harshness... why? because it is working in the megaherz audio rate modulation in it's FPGA engine... it does make one hell of a difference.

But still... the P12 is a very very advanced synthesizer, and in many ways it's as good as a PEAK, in some areas better, and worse in others.

The reason many of the videos on the NET of the P12 has this gritty character is exactly because they are trying to demonstrate the things that are unique to the P12; the audio rate modulation of different things... but this is simply the character of the P12, and something you have to deal with if you use it. You can still do exeptional synthesis sounds with it, even if you use audio rate modulations, but the problem is, that on the net, everyone has a tendency to compare everything to MOOGs or other simple subtractive synthesizers... so they get disappointed when they do not hear the same analog'ish character from sounds on the P12 that has a lot of audio rate modulation going on... they just forget that the MOOGs cannot even touch that kind of sound.

It's the same old dumb comparisons... people compare everything to certain synths they have put on a piedestal, and anything that does not sound like that are simply "not good enough" ... if people just started to create NEW sounds for the P12, instead of constantly trying to emulate everything else they've heard, then the P12 will stand out on it's own... being itself... and I think that the P12 still needs some people to create some sounds specificall made for just the P12, not trying to emulate something else... this is when people will realize how unique it is... not better than anything else... just unique.

I'm getting a P12 desktop in 14 days... and I'll start my mission towards creating a bank of exactly that... unique sounds that is not supposed to replicate other synths in any way... looking forward to seeing how that will go...
« Last Edit: March 14, 2019, 05:32:04 AM by Razmo »
If you need me, follow the shadows...

laurentluigi

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Re: Why so few of us?
« Reply #27 on: March 14, 2019, 06:12:16 AM »
You're right !
I'm using the P12 and the PX exactly like you say, starting from scratches....
Without thinking of duplicate any others synths.

Each time, I take a different way, everything depends on the past day.
This is so exciting !!!

Except the strange commercial way of the utility sample software for the PX..... Thanks Mr Smith !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Re: Why so few of us?
« Reply #28 on: March 15, 2019, 02:32:09 AM »
I too agree with Razmo. It would never have occurred to me to make copies of 'old sounds'. That is not what I do. I read through a number of comments here which seemed to be overpicky about this lovely little synth. I have good ears and have written voices that found their own way to completion once I had started the process of exploring the basic timbre. None of these new sounds have disappointed me.
 I read many complaints about the P12 over the years since I bought one and many of them seem a bit unfair. One that I believed - about the P12 not being as good at Bass sounds - disappeared as soon as my son leant me a subwoofer. At one point I asked myself if other Synth makers were posting bad comments here to 'diss' the opposition, but I guess the truth is that a forum attracts comments. My dream is still to have a second P12 so I have one for the road and one safe at home. I have never regretted a penny or minute spent on my P12 - whereas the 4 stereo Boss pedals I purchased to control the beast were rubbish.

Re: Why so few of us?
« Reply #29 on: August 12, 2019, 08:08:05 AM »
I am now officially 2 of us. I only had the one working synth, Cassandra (my Prophet 12), but I have just taken delivery of CassandraB. I had been concerned about taking my P12 out to gigs because of all the work I put into creating unique voices, and the dangers of proximity to an unpredictable audience (I don't get to play big venues).
Now I have a second P12 I can go forth without worries and inflict my synth savagery upon an unsuspecting world.

Re: Why so few of us?
« Reply #30 on: August 15, 2019, 04:21:01 AM »
Congratulations!
 I guess you could call that...
 polyphonic polyamory.
 Good band name come to think of it. Haha

 PS- maybe a couple more volume pedals and you could do fully immersive sound scapes with 4 stereo outputs!

Re: Why so few of us?
« Reply #31 on: August 16, 2019, 12:52:15 AM »
There is the other bonus of using the same voice on both and subtly tweaking one synth voice away from the other structurally to make 'fatter' sounds. Something to do on a rainy day! I already do this sometimes between identical parts A and B on my original P12, but now I can do it with the more complex voices.