Trying to decide the best digital synth.

Sacred Synthesis

Re: Trying to decide the best digital synth.
« Reply #60 on: October 06, 2017, 06:39:46 AM »
Mention of the Blofeld brings up another topic; Do we really have to spend a ton of money in order to make good synthesizer music?  With instruments like the Schmidt, the Solaris, and the Modal Electronics poly's, everybody's assumption seems to be in the affirmative.  I think this is a bit of materialism and advertising getting the best of us.  I'd say one could make superb synthesizer music with only a modest amount of disposable income.  Hence, even though I like large instruments with long keyboards, I'm not at all drawn in by the appeal of super expensive wonder-synthesizers.  Which is say that something like a Blofeld or a Sledge is still a very attractive option, and neither should be eliminated from consideration merely because it's relatively inexpensive. 
« Last Edit: October 06, 2017, 06:43:04 AM by Sacred Synthesis »

Razmo

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Re: Trying to decide the best digital synth.
« Reply #61 on: October 06, 2017, 07:37:02 AM »
That is exactly the route I'm taking at the moment... I've set myself the goal of only buying lowbudget, simple, hands-on analog synths... and honestly, they perform more than well... I've had a lot of the expensive DSI machines... the small ones sound just as good... the only difference to me is, that the features are fewer... but that can be a benefit as well, as some people tend to stop at too many options... in the end, it all boils down to how good you are at using your brain, and what instruments inspire and trigger you to use them well... even small analog monosynths can do a lot, if you tweak them, making the most out of them.

The most important for me is that the synth inspire me to use it... that inspiration can even be silly sometimes... even though I could use any synth to make a piece of music, if it does not inspire me, it will not happen, no matter if it's darn expensive or dirt cheap... for me personally, digital synths does not inspire me, no matter how flexible og cool they sound... I do not know why, they just do not... right now I want small analog synth, with few controls to tweak, because "squeezing the lemon" is what inspire me.

So... if you only get inspired by expensive gear... sorry, you are out of luck, and need to spend the money... materialism or not.
If you need me, follow the shadows...

Sacred Synthesis

Re: Trying to decide the best digital synth.
« Reply #62 on: October 06, 2017, 07:48:12 AM »
Precisely.  I wouldn't do this because it would be too much fuss and trouble, but I'd love to put together a low-budget set up and produce the best music I could with it.  I truly believe there's far too much gear hype and fixation in our field, and it shows in the end results.  Something basic like a Rev2 and a Blofeld could suffice to make years of wonderfully inspiring music, and it would make a salutary point as well.

Look what Marc Melia has done with only a single Prophet '08 Keyboard, an analog mixer, a volume pedal, and a couple of devices.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2017, 08:52:29 AM by Sacred Synthesis »

Sacred Synthesis

Re: Trying to decide the best digital synth.
« Reply #63 on: October 06, 2017, 08:00:47 AM »
Hey Lobolives, you mentioned the Sledge.  What about that synthesizer?  Too much plastic?  ;D

LoboLives

Re: Trying to decide the best digital synth.
« Reply #64 on: October 06, 2017, 08:32:51 AM »
You can make great music with a bunch of volcas and you can make great music with a Schmidt.

It really comes down to the individual and what they connect with.

For example Raz is mostly shying away from keyboard based synths and going for modules and racks....I'm the opposite.

Some people swear by the Korg Kronos...I have one...and it's collecting dust. Just can't get into it.

It's not really a question for money for me it's about connecting with something. You can always get more money but you can never get more time. I realize that there's no sense in "What ifs.." so I just pull the trigger on stuff if I have a connection with it, price be damned.


Gerry Havinga

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Re: Trying to decide the best digital synth.
« Reply #65 on: October 06, 2017, 08:47:16 AM »
Ah so refreshing reading these comments.

I have almost felt "guilty" over the years only really buying second hand and low budget music making equipment. It has taken me years figuring out what really inspires me. The Rev2 has been my most expensive purchase ever (in 45+ years). Like Razmo I feel I am slowly homing in on what instrumentation turns me on. Sometimes it takes a while before I figure out what I like. The Blofeld is an example of that. The Rev2 for me was on advice of others (I almost fell for the Deepmind 12 hype....) and good advice it was! Two synths for the price of one, not bad  ;)

I just purchased a second hand Akai S5000 and am starting to (re-)learn it. For sound making I feel am getting very close to my ideal setup. For sequencing, away from the computer, I am not sure yet. This I will need to investigate further. Especially as I would like to start playing live in two years or so.

Thanks guys for these great dialogues.
DAW-less and going down the Eurorack rabbit hole.

LoboLives

Re: Trying to decide the best digital synth.
« Reply #66 on: October 06, 2017, 09:05:33 AM »
Ah so refreshing reading these comments.

I have almost felt "guilty" over the years only really buying second hand and low budget music making equipment. It has taken me years figuring out what really inspires me. The Rev2 has been my most expensive purchase ever (in 45+ years). Like Razmo I feel I am slowly homing in on what instrumentation turns me on. Sometimes it takes a while before I figure out what I like. The Blofeld is an example of that. The Rev2 for me was on advice of others (I almost fell for the Deepmind 12 hype....) and good advice it was! Two synths for the price of one, not bad  ;)

I just purchased a second hand Akai S5000 and am starting to (re-)learn it. For sound making I feel am getting very close to my ideal setup. For sequencing, away from the computer, I am not sure yet. This I will need to investigate further. Especially as I would like to start playing live in two years or so.

Thanks guys for these great dialogues.

I too am looking at sequencing away from the computer...this is a good video.

LoboLives

Re: Trying to decide the best digital synth.
« Reply #67 on: October 06, 2017, 09:12:22 AM »
Hey Lobolives, you mentioned the Sledge.  What about that synthesizer?  Too much plastic?  ;D

Not at all. I like the yellow and in fact I think they also should have brought out a blue one as well as a nod to the PPG Wave.

There’s some really nice sounds out of it from what I’ve heard and the price is decent. Both Rick Wakeman and Jordan Rudas play it. I’d like to see a multitimbral verson but bi timbral is fine. There’s some great tutorial videos on how to get certain sounds and it can get some nice DX tones. Haven’t ruled it out totally.

One of the reasons I’m leaning towards the Solaris is it can do both PPG and VS and more as opposed to one pallet of sounds.

Re: Trying to decide the best digital synth.
« Reply #68 on: October 06, 2017, 03:40:44 PM »
Mention of the Blofeld brings up another topic; Do we really have to spend a ton of money in order to make good synthesizer music?  With instruments like the Schmidt, the Solaris, and the Modal Electronics poly's, everybody's assumption seems to be in the affirmative.  I think this is a bit of materialism and advertising getting the best of us.  I'd say one could make superb synthesizer music with only a modest amount of disposable income.  Hence, even though I like large instruments with long keyboards, I'm not at all drawn in by the appeal of super expensive wonder-synthesizers.  Which is say that something like a Blofeld or a Sledge is still a very attractive option, and neither should be eliminated from consideration merely because it's relatively inexpensive.

True. One could basically make good music and recordings with any gear, be it synths like the Volcas or a DAW like GarageBand. What remains important, though, is that one likes the sound of the instrument(s) on decides for.

There are still two separate discussions I'd say, which I bring up because you mentioned the Schmidt. One is about what gear one really needs (or whether one really needs the most expensive stuff), one is about uncompromising instruments or uncompromising manufacturers.
The Schmidt for example is totally uneconomic from a mainstream POV. It was developed because Schmidt wanted to, not because he was looking at a particular market. It's insanely expensive and he knew that it would be in the end and accordingly only sell to very few people. It's a synth idealist's project regardless of prospective profits. I played it once, didn't really like it I have to admit, but I'm still glad that it exists or that Schmidt could do what he wanted to do.
The stuff by Modal Electronics is of course placed in a different manner on the market. Still, they made clear from the get-go that they would only build instruments for the pro league or people that are paid accordingly. In terms of hardware, they were also not willing to make any compromises, which defined their niche as well and is perfectly legitimate - at least as long as they succeed with their goals. All that made it of course even more surprising when they would eventually announce the CRAFT synth(s).

All these latter and more recent pricy synths don't typically fall into the category of fetishized objects, at least not to the same degree as certain vintage units like a Jupiter-8, a Prophet-10, or a Moog modular system for example. Sure, there were quite a few people lusting for a Schmidt, but 99% also knew from the beginning that they could never afford one. Most did just appreciate the effort as such. In the same way the 002, 008, or the Solaris are not really treated like mythologized items. They just belong to the upper end market and I've never seen someone making a comment about them that says: "You definitely need those to get that proper sound." The latter mostly happens with reference to anything vintage, be it vintage analog or vintage digital, the stuff that sells from $4,000 to $10,000 on Ebay.

And to return to the beginning: Of course one doesn't need any particular instrument because others say so. One should mainly focus on the sound and have an understanding of one's musical goals. Because what do you wanna do with the most amazing and feature rich instrument if you don't like its sonic character? And what do you wanna do if you have the nicest sounding instrument that has too many limitations for what you'd like to achieve? Both aspects are of course tied to subjective preferences and make it perfectly legitimate to either prefer a Minimoog over any other mono synth or a System-8 over any true analog synth, and so on. Whatever works for one person - and that may be subject to change over time and with growing experience - is valid. But the criteria vary in each case.

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Re: Trying to decide the best digital synth.
« Reply #69 on: October 06, 2017, 07:42:49 PM »
I have almost felt "guilty" over the years only really buying second hand and low budget music making equipment. It has taken me years figuring out what really inspires me.

I bought mostly used stuff for decades. It was largely before you could find specific things on the internet. Therefore, it was usually a matter of what happened to be available at Al Nalli or Farrow's rather than what I actually wanted. These days, I don't have to compromise quite as much, but 1991-Me probably would wonder what the hell 2017-Me is thinking. What inspires me has changed even more than my gear.
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Re: Trying to decide the best digital synth.
« Reply #70 on: October 10, 2017, 06:18:03 AM »
I have had a Sledge 2 for a couple of weeks now. It's a good sounding and very easy to program synth.

LoboLives

Re: Trying to decide the best digital synth.
« Reply #71 on: October 11, 2017, 03:15:27 AM »
I have had a Sledge 2 for a couple of weeks now. It's a good sounding and very easy to program synth.

Yeah I heard the interface is a breeze.

Sacred Synthesis

Re: Trying to decide the best digital synth.
« Reply #72 on: October 11, 2017, 06:07:30 AM »
The Sledge once interested me quite a bit.  It has such an intuitive control panel, and it sounds decent as well.  But I would have preferred a classier overall design - more metal and wood, rather than sheer plastic.  The instrument shouts, "cheap!"

LoboLives

Re: Trying to decide the best digital synth.
« Reply #73 on: October 11, 2017, 06:29:04 AM »
The Sledge once interested me quite a bit.  It has such an intuitive control panel, and it sounds decent as well.  But I would have preferred a classier overall design - more metal and wood, rather than sheer plastic.  The instrument shouts, "cheap!"

Nah, I like it's look I would have preferred blue over yellow as a nod to the PPG Wave.

Honestly so many synths have wood sides these days it be nice if DSI's next synth doesn't have it.

Re: Trying to decide the best digital synth.
« Reply #74 on: October 11, 2017, 06:49:13 AM »
The Sledge once interested me quite a bit.  It has such an intuitive control panel, and it sounds decent as well.  But I would have preferred a classier overall design - more metal and wood, rather than sheer plastic.  The instrument shouts, "cheap!"

Nah, I like it's look I would have preferred blue over yellow as a nod to the PPG Wave.

Honestly so many synths have wood sides these days it be nice if DSI's next synth doesn't have it.

Just take them off and replace them with something else | nothing.

I much prefer the wood sides to plastic / leather / Plexiglas / metal, to be honest.
Sequential / DSI stuff: Prophet-6 Keyboard with Yorick Tech LFE, Prophet 12 Keyboard, Mono Evolver Keyboard, Split-Eight, Six-Trak, Prophet 2000

Sacred Synthesis

Re: Trying to decide the best digital synth.
« Reply #75 on: October 11, 2017, 07:05:38 AM »
I miss the abundant wood of older instruments, like the Minimoog and Prophet 5.  They look classy and gorgeous to my eyes.  I can't stand bright-colored plastic.  I had my share of Legos as a child.  Can't stand plastic, and would never pay a substantial sum of money for an instrument made of it.  I'd rather have the Legos.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2017, 07:08:45 AM by Sacred Synthesis »

LoboLives

Re: Trying to decide the best digital synth.
« Reply #76 on: October 11, 2017, 08:08:49 AM »
I miss the abundant wood of older instruments, like the Minimoog and Prophet 5.  They look classy and gorgeous to my eyes.  I can't stand bright-colored plastic.  I had my share of Legos as a child.  Can't stand plastic, and would never pay a substantial sum of money for an instrument made of it.  I'd rather have the Legos.

I like the wood look too but I would like a bit more variety. Which is why I'm probably going to get that Two Voice Pro after all and especially if it's white same with the white Solaris.

I mean even something as simple as adding blue lights instead of red ones on the OB-6 just to differentiate it more against the Prophet 6.

I just find a lot of synths are starting to look the same.

Re: Trying to decide the best digital synth.
« Reply #77 on: October 11, 2017, 11:06:31 AM »
I miss the abundant wood of older instruments, like the Minimoog and Prophet 5.  They look classy and gorgeous to my eyes.  I can't stand bright-colored plastic.  I had my share of Legos as a child.  Can't stand plastic, and would never pay a substantial sum of money for an instrument made of it.  I'd rather have the Legos.

Well, fortunately, the Sledge 2 I bought is all black. It has the black keyboard too (white keys are black and black keys are grey).
Much bigger than I thought it was going to be. Almost as big as the OB8.
It's not perfect but it does sound good.

Re: Trying to decide the best digital synth.
« Reply #78 on: October 11, 2017, 11:08:37 AM »
Absolutely agree that the Prophet 5 looked fantastic. Absolute classic.

Re: Trying to decide the best digital synth.
« Reply #79 on: October 12, 2017, 05:26:15 PM »
Sorry a bit behind. I just bought a used Ensoniq SD-1 (circa 1991) because of its sequencer. It takes minutes to lay down the something like the Bach Air from Orchestral Suite #3. I can't do that with the computer because I'd be going back and forth between the keyboard and the computer. Plus the sound generation and the sequencing are on the same board, which makes me much more apt to actually record stuff and tweak the sounds.

So in theory, a Kronos should be great for inspiring music. But it's all about the interface. When all of the functionality is easily accessible from the front panel with no menu diving I start to experiment. Otherwise I just give up or get bored.

The Ensoniq is actually an interesting little digital synth. Although it's basically a ROMpler, it has some interesting tricks up its sleeve. First of all, there are a set of transwaves, which I hear are similar to PPG wavetables. These are great for creating evolving textures. Additionally you can layer up to six waveforms in a single patch. The downside is that you only have 32 voices on the maxed out SD-1 32 Voice. So you have only five note polyphony on a monster 6 waveform patch. The waveforms can be multisamples, single-cycle waves, or the transwaves. You can have two nonresonant filters per waveform so you can create high pass, low pass, band pass and band stop filters. And the sound is quite warm. Effects are definitely not world class anymore.